Sage might be my favourite. Not necessarily because they're the strongest class, but it felt so good to switch out Dindraine for Guin whenever she became available. As per your recommendation!
Nice to see these videos going .In my experience so far on very hard,champions without defensive stance against seelies are good just with teleport ring and sage in group.But i have only lvl 14's so far.
I think Vanguards are B tier because: 1. They are great in act 1, but everyone already does enough damage once you get going. 2. Them not getting hit means others getting hit more. 3. Traps 4. Very little team utility 5. Later enemies detection range is absurd 6. can't get behind final boss 2nd form iirc I stopped using them by act 3 and didn't miss them at all. Everyone deals damage Maxx. To me, Defenders get better as the game goes on as well, not worse. they can get enough extra AP to have 3 swings or more and shield charge is fully buffed to allow them to get in and draw the enemy. IDK Maxx, maybe we play different styles. Also, Sages very so much that it's hard to rank them. I think you're right overall, but Mordred's mother is an exception because she is not a win more character. Just my two cents.
Vanguards actually can get behind dragon Arthur if you preposition or use a teleport ring. Traps are actually really useful early game so it is worth something, even if it isn't a lot overall. Detection range with unseelie can be a pain but it's just unseelie so it isn't even all enemies in Act 3. A lot of people have issues with them, and I get it. Just for me personally it hasn't been a large annoyance/issue. Everyone does damage sure, but having someone that does several times more damage than most other classes is a huge difference and can actually very easily carry the party with how much more damage they can do and how many kills they can get in a single turn without any help at most stages of the game. I also don't use them tbh. I just don't like using them because they're kind of boring to me, but I do recognize how strong they are when I do choose to use them. I appreciate your takes :)
I think a lot depends on who else is in the party for some of these. Balanced party is definitely strongest IMO, ie 4 vanguards or 4 arcanists isnt better than 1 defender, 1 marksman, 1 champion, 1 sage
Marksman is a totally useless and weakest class on very hard diff. They are simply cant cover any role. Strongest party: Mordred (cc/tank) Isolda (support/cc) Morgana (CC/DPS) Balin (Pure dps, boudicia is useless cuz you cant rise up her morale for sweet 20% dmg+1ap bonuses).
I am a pretty new player at this game and need some input on what I am doing wrong in the later game getting into act 3. I understand that marksmen are generally considered weak based on their struggle to keep up with damage, but I am having trouble conceptually approaching missions WITHOUT marksmen. I find the struggle I am having is that one of my heroes tends to get focused down almost immediately in most fights by groups of melee units and several ranged units and I find marksmen an excellent solution to ranged units being able to pick them off without needing to push past all of the massive crowds of melee enemies. How am I supposed to resolve this with better units? Are vanguards/sages leaping/teleporting to the enemy ranged units or having sages take care of it even though they can only really attack once per turn the only real way to deal with enemy archers?
Your options will vary depending on your alignment. If you're going Christian then your only other range option is Ector. Ector is good, but him being your only option can feel a bit limiting and I get that. Using Vanguards to sneak around and pick off the enemy backline is a strong and consistent strategy however for any alignment. If you go Old Faith you'll have a few options for Arcanists to bring and any of them can do a good job of sniping them fairly well with Merlin and Morgana probably being the best at it. If you took Morgawse instead of Merlin, she's also pretty efficient at it as well as just laying down heavy cc in general. Guin has teleport so she can also cross the distance to backstab them as well. I'd take Globe of Protection fairly early if you're using her for this to protect her from any other archers that she can't get to.
Even B-tier seems generous to defenders. Every side mission I'm just happy I don't have dead weight character like Mordred. It's not that he provides nothing, just that everybody else provides tons more to the team(besides marksmen). If I could get enemy health and vitality reduced by 5% by taking empty slot instead of Mordred I would take that in a heartbeat. There is so much damage potential in this game along with AP bonuses/resets and mobility that being actually defensive is completely redundant. Vanguards with jump and Champions with teleport ring simply kill most enemies in first turn or two with some buff/debuff assists so you never really need defensive characters.
This tier list is definitely weighted toward the latter stages of the game, but I do take into account earlier stages as well to a smaller degree. Also that said, Mordred is far from dead weight depending on the team comp entirely and also because he provides some solid debuff support.
@@maxxalos1267 I liked your video going through her skills about the poison stuff as I looked at another guide and he said to ignore it. th-cam.com/video/jKTJBfQHwHM/w-d-xo.html he actually thought Champions were useless in the late game but Marksmen were fine.
@@quickpawmaud That dude just doesn't know how to play Champions then tbh lol. Ignoring poison arrow and alchemist is a blunder imo. With alchemist it drops down to 3 ap which can literally be the difference between getting another shot in or not sometimes and it just flat out does more damage than your base shoot attack as an opener. As for saying Marksman are fine in endgame my assumption is that he maybe doesnt have a full frame of reference to compare Marksman performance. Not to talk shit or anything. In my experience over like 8 runs now, Marksman are definitely the weakest class, noticeably so unless you get the soul merchant gear
@@quickpawmaud Joust is very useful but I don't think it makes it the strongest alignment. Joust is useful if your heroes are getting injured a lot and you need to cycle them through the hospice or cathedral at a moment's notice. Other than that its for cycling the shop stocks more quickly. The better you play the less you need it. All the alignments are very strong in different ways, I don't think any of them are noticeably stronger than any other alignment. If anything I think the Old Faith alignments may be stronger just because of hero selection.
They must have been buffed relatively recently, because I just bought this game a month or two ago and I've put a lot of hours into it and while I don't bring them on every mission anymore they are still pretty strong into the third act of the game. I agree with this tier list for the most part, although I get bored of using Ector every single mission so I've found ways to be highly successful without him. Usually it's Mordred, Tegyr, Lancelot, and Galahad. Sometimes I'll switch in Lucan for Galahad, or White Knight for Lancelot.
Rightful Christian really leans into buffing and heavy armor. You'll want a Vanguard or Champion as a primary damage dealer. White Knight or Boudicea are the strongest options for this alignment but any champion or vanguard you like will do fine. If you're using Mordred as your tank then I'd pick up at least one sage, any of them are fine. If you want to lean more into the buffing aspect of gameplay I'd take Lancelot as your last unit. If you want something with range then I'd take Ector
Wow, I actually have the exact same tiering. I disagree on a couple of statements (I think vanguard always does more damage than champion), but the actual placements are exactly where I would put them.
Champions can literally reach over 1000 damage per hit on certain fights so in endgame they can most certainly do more damage than Vanguards. Cool to see similar placements however.
@@maxxalos1267 Champion's damage can ramp up faster than vanguards, but vanguard damage can still ramp up quite hard with gear for it, and can do it infinitely in much more layouts than champions, whose killing spree works much more inflexibly. The difference in number is irrelevant if you're still one-hitting. And without ramping, vanguard's hidden attacks for 4 AP do more damage than champion's strikes + skills.
@@Mike_BEASTon While yes it's true that if you're one tapping enemies the actual number is irrelevant. However Champions can much more easily ramp up to one tapping Famorians even with 2000 health when compared to Vanguards. That being said, Vanguards have full ap refund potential so the overall kill efficiency between the two classes is negligible imo. Champions have a much higher ceiling but don't come online in a fight immediately whereas Vanguards do. If you're comparing killing efficiency between Vanguard and Champions is fairly close like I said, but killing efficiency is not the same as doing more damage. I think Champions are better in endgame but recognize entirely that it's just that, what I think based on my gameplay experience. But as for the statement that Vanguards always do more damage, that's just incorrect as Champions can literally do more damage than Vanguards to a redundant degree even.
@@maxxalos1267 I can see that. When I said they do more damage, I was thinking two things: that vanguard's do more dps without ramping, like vs a boss monster. and that in regular scenarios, with some support, they can consistently wipe almost any possible setup on the first turn, while (I'm assuming) champions need 1 turn of resting, and may need a 2nd turn to clear, depending on the layout of enemies. My logic was infinite damage > usually not infinite damage. It's splitting hairs of course, since at that point we're just talking about clearing faster or more spectacularly, any worries about difficulty are long gone.
Since this topic was about disagreeing with a couple of statements i will also post here :) I would clearly put defender in A. Let's not forget that Mordred is a defender, but also a great debuffer. You have a 2 in 1 character. So while endgame you don't need a tank as much as early game, his debuffing is still good. Plus if you need 1 member to get hit, just use him for that. But the game is not just about endgame. Tbh really early to mid is a out harder than end and defenders, mordred especially, hard carry you. Regarding the vanguard vs champ, i find champs better, and not numberwise as they provide you with a no cooldown aoe and can be a second tank. But the way i see it, the 2 classes are complementary to each other: i use vanguards for bosses, not for the dmg but for jump and stealth, and champs for my other missions. One last thing to mention is that vangs also gained some utility for shard collection due to jump.
Sage might be my favourite. Not necessarily because they're the strongest class, but it felt so good to switch out Dindraine for Guin whenever she became available. As per your recommendation!
Lol fair enough of a reason. They are fun to use
Oh noooooooo, I was looking so much forward to the huge tier list :D
Next week for sure
Nice to see these videos going .In my experience so far on very hard,champions without defensive stance against seelies are good just with teleport ring and sage in group.But i have only lvl 14's so far.
I think Vanguards are B tier because:
1. They are great in act 1, but everyone already does enough damage once you get going.
2. Them not getting hit means others getting hit more.
3. Traps
4. Very little team utility
5. Later enemies detection range is absurd
6. can't get behind final boss 2nd form iirc
I stopped using them by act 3 and didn't miss them at all. Everyone deals damage Maxx. To me, Defenders get better as the game goes on as well, not worse. they can get enough extra AP to have 3 swings or more and shield charge is fully buffed to allow them to get in and draw the enemy. IDK Maxx, maybe we play different styles. Also, Sages very so much that it's hard to rank them. I think you're right overall, but Mordred's mother is an exception because she is not a win more character. Just my two cents.
Vanguards actually can get behind dragon Arthur if you preposition or use a teleport ring. Traps are actually really useful early game so it is worth something, even if it isn't a lot overall. Detection range with unseelie can be a pain but it's just unseelie so it isn't even all enemies in Act 3. A lot of people have issues with them, and I get it. Just for me personally it hasn't been a large annoyance/issue. Everyone does damage sure, but having someone that does several times more damage than most other classes is a huge difference and can actually very easily carry the party with how much more damage they can do and how many kills they can get in a single turn without any help at most stages of the game. I also don't use them tbh. I just don't like using them because they're kind of boring to me, but I do recognize how strong they are when I do choose to use them. I appreciate your takes :)
Excellent evaluation.
Thank you :)
@@maxxalos1267 You're very welcome! Cheers!
I think a lot depends on who else is in the party for some of these. Balanced party is definitely strongest IMO, ie 4 vanguards or 4 arcanists isnt better than 1 defender, 1 marksman, 1 champion, 1 sage
Marksman is a totally useless and weakest class on very hard diff. They are simply cant cover any role. Strongest party: Mordred (cc/tank) Isolda (support/cc) Morgana (CC/DPS) Balin (Pure dps, boudicia is useless cuz you cant rise up her morale for sweet 20% dmg+1ap bonuses).
I am a pretty new player at this game and need some input on what I am doing wrong in the later game getting into act 3. I understand that marksmen are generally considered weak based on their struggle to keep up with damage, but I am having trouble conceptually approaching missions WITHOUT marksmen. I find the struggle I am having is that one of my heroes tends to get focused down almost immediately in most fights by groups of melee units and several ranged units and I find marksmen an excellent solution to ranged units being able to pick them off without needing to push past all of the massive crowds of melee enemies. How am I supposed to resolve this with better units? Are vanguards/sages leaping/teleporting to the enemy ranged units or having sages take care of it even though they can only really attack once per turn the only real way to deal with enemy archers?
Your options will vary depending on your alignment. If you're going Christian then your only other range option is Ector. Ector is good, but him being your only option can feel a bit limiting and I get that. Using Vanguards to sneak around and pick off the enemy backline is a strong and consistent strategy however for any alignment. If you go Old Faith you'll have a few options for Arcanists to bring and any of them can do a good job of sniping them fairly well with Merlin and Morgana probably being the best at it. If you took Morgawse instead of Merlin, she's also pretty efficient at it as well as just laying down heavy cc in general. Guin has teleport so she can also cross the distance to backstab them as well. I'd take Globe of Protection fairly early if you're using her for this to protect her from any other archers that she can't get to.
Even B-tier seems generous to defenders. Every side mission I'm just happy I don't have dead weight character like Mordred. It's not that he provides nothing, just that everybody else provides tons more to the team(besides marksmen). If I could get enemy health and vitality reduced by 5% by taking empty slot instead of Mordred I would take that in a heartbeat. There is so much damage potential in this game along with AP bonuses/resets and mobility that being actually defensive is completely redundant. Vanguards with jump and Champions with teleport ring simply kill most enemies in first turn or two with some buff/debuff assists so you never really need defensive characters.
This tier list is definitely weighted toward the latter stages of the game, but I do take into account earlier stages as well to a smaller degree. Also that said, Mordred is far from dead weight depending on the team comp entirely and also because he provides some solid debuff support.
Use Galahad and you will take back everything you just said
Marksmen may suck but I like Lady Dindraine anyway
I like her too tbh
@@maxxalos1267 I liked your video going through her skills about the poison stuff as I looked at another guide and he said to ignore it. th-cam.com/video/jKTJBfQHwHM/w-d-xo.html he actually thought Champions were useless in the late game but Marksmen were fine.
@@quickpawmaud That dude just doesn't know how to play Champions then tbh lol. Ignoring poison arrow and alchemist is a blunder imo. With alchemist it drops down to 3 ap which can literally be the difference between getting another shot in or not sometimes and it just flat out does more damage than your base shoot attack as an opener. As for saying Marksman are fine in endgame my assumption is that he maybe doesnt have a full frame of reference to compare Marksman performance. Not to talk shit or anything. In my experience over like 8 runs now, Marksman are definitely the weakest class, noticeably so unless you get the soul merchant gear
@@maxxalos1267 do you agree that Rightful Christian is the best alignment because of joust? He says it is extremely powerful.
@@quickpawmaud Joust is very useful but I don't think it makes it the strongest alignment. Joust is useful if your heroes are getting injured a lot and you need to cycle them through the hospice or cathedral at a moment's notice. Other than that its for cycling the shop stocks more quickly. The better you play the less you need it. All the alignments are very strong in different ways, I don't think any of them are noticeably stronger than any other alignment. If anything I think the Old Faith alignments may be stronger just because of hero selection.
Marksman are such flops aside from the first couple of early game missions. It does not feel good using that particular class.
They must have been buffed relatively recently, because I just bought this game a month or two ago and I've put a lot of hours into it and while I don't bring them on every mission anymore they are still pretty strong into the third act of the game. I agree with this tier list for the most part, although I get bored of using Ector every single mission so I've found ways to be highly successful without him. Usually it's Mordred, Tegyr, Lancelot, and Galahad. Sometimes I'll switch in Lucan for Galahad, or White Knight for Lancelot.
What would be a good balance Christian/Rightful Party including Mordred that you would recommend?
Rightful Christian really leans into buffing and heavy armor. You'll want a Vanguard or Champion as a primary damage dealer. White Knight or Boudicea are the strongest options for this alignment but any champion or vanguard you like will do fine. If you're using Mordred as your tank then I'd pick up at least one sage, any of them are fine. If you want to lean more into the buffing aspect of gameplay I'd take Lancelot as your last unit. If you want something with range then I'd take Ector
@@maxxalos1267 thanks this is really helpful. Ector will be in the tower as his punishment for killing those villagers. Also you know relic dust lol.
@@gravediggermordekai7032 Happy to help, gotta get that sweet dust lol
Wow, I actually have the exact same tiering. I disagree on a couple of statements (I think vanguard always does more damage than champion), but the actual placements are exactly where I would put them.
Champions can literally reach over 1000 damage per hit on certain fights so in endgame they can most certainly do more damage than Vanguards. Cool to see similar placements however.
@@maxxalos1267 Champion's damage can ramp up faster than vanguards, but vanguard damage can still ramp up quite hard with gear for it, and can do it infinitely in much more layouts than champions, whose killing spree works much more inflexibly. The difference in number is irrelevant if you're still one-hitting. And without ramping, vanguard's hidden attacks for 4 AP do more damage than champion's strikes + skills.
@@Mike_BEASTon While yes it's true that if you're one tapping enemies the actual number is irrelevant. However Champions can much more easily ramp up to one tapping Famorians even with 2000 health when compared to Vanguards. That being said, Vanguards have full ap refund potential so the overall kill efficiency between the two classes is negligible imo. Champions have a much higher ceiling but don't come online in a fight immediately whereas Vanguards do. If you're comparing killing efficiency between Vanguard and Champions is fairly close like I said, but killing efficiency is not the same as doing more damage. I think Champions are better in endgame but recognize entirely that it's just that, what I think based on my gameplay experience. But as for the statement that Vanguards always do more damage, that's just incorrect as Champions can literally do more damage than Vanguards to a redundant degree even.
@@maxxalos1267 I can see that. When I said they do more damage, I was thinking two things: that vanguard's do more dps without ramping, like vs a boss monster. and that in regular scenarios, with some support, they can consistently wipe almost any possible setup on the first turn, while (I'm assuming) champions need 1 turn of resting, and may need a 2nd turn to clear, depending on the layout of enemies. My logic was infinite damage > usually not infinite damage. It's splitting hairs of course, since at that point we're just talking about clearing faster or more spectacularly, any worries about difficulty are long gone.
Since this topic was about disagreeing with a couple of statements i will also post here :) I would clearly put defender in A. Let's not forget that Mordred is a defender, but also a great debuffer. You have a 2 in 1 character. So while endgame you don't need a tank as much as early game, his debuffing is still good. Plus if you need 1 member to get hit, just use him for that. But the game is not just about endgame. Tbh really early to mid is a out harder than end and defenders, mordred especially, hard carry you. Regarding the vanguard vs champ, i find champs better, and not numberwise as they provide you with a no cooldown aoe and can be a second tank. But the way i see it, the 2 classes are complementary to each other: i use vanguards for bosses, not for the dmg but for jump and stealth, and champs for my other missions. One last thing to mention is that vangs also gained some utility for shard collection due to jump.
Nice troll with a tumbnail =))
Thank you :)