icewalled marksmen with "cover expert","adrenaline" and "ready" paired with items that increase overwatch damage and lower ap used for overwatch are actually quiete good. Without season armor i would say yvain is the best purely based on assasination, but with seasonal armor sir bors is just miles ahead of all of them (but needs the item that removes the negativ trait). 2 ap shoot in overwatch with several bonusses to overwatch damage lets him easily attack 5+ enemies. I think there was even a second item that reduces overwatch ap used but have not found during my full range run so far so might be mistaken, but if it exist that would be 1 ap for shoot. 5ap lightning arrow for 200% damage vs. 2ap overwatch attacks with 120%+ damage (can easily reach 200% with equip). I feel marksman abilitys suck hard and overwatch is the way to go.
Very nice videos mate.I am playing on very hard,close to finish act 2,and i was watching your video with the white knight Lancelot team,the problem i have is how do you know to save essences for late heroes,cos 10% weapon dmg for example you get in act 1.I was playing Balan,Ector Balin Tristan so far and it's very good, hardest mission so far was Lucan recruiting one by far.
Well I'm on my 8th run now (I think) so I just have a lot of game knowledge to know what I want and who I want to have what. Kind of have an idea of what kind of party comps I'm going to use or try to mess around with. That video was actually my second Rightful/Christian run so I knew from the start I was going to use that team and for that team I wanted the 10% weapon damage essence on White Knight. I do have a guide to essences if you're interested that may be able to help you out in a more general sense though for your essence decision making.
Of course,was kinda of rethoric thing,was talking about when i play the first time,for you, obviously you know all heroes . Thank you anyway for all the work,this game for me is one of the best this year,love the lore and the darkness in this Avalon.
@@tarkus5732 I'm happy to provide the content, I'm glad you enjoy it. It's been a real standout for me too. Ended up loving it way more than I thought I ever would.
Are markman still crappy like this or did they got changes in the mean time? I have been evading them in my first run but was wondering whether i should use them in the next one
No changes to them yet sadly. Devs mentioned that they will have a major announcement concerning details and release dates for the next major patch and first DLC soon. Hoping Marksman get some love with either of these content updates.
@@maxxalos1267 thx for your swift reply. I was thinking of going tyrant christian, went rightfull old faith first. Since that direction has i believe less sages and arcanists i thought maybe there is some place for marksman in my roster, if they are worth it lol
@@maxxalos1267 btw one thing i picked up on. This season you have this armor that redeems HP from bleeding enemies and that axe thing that bleeds extra for champions, its a pretty strong combo i think. At the one but hardest diff im running through hordes of famorians with no armor, outhealing their dps xD. 2 essences i run so support the built were 2 extra injury tokens, and extra bleeding damage applied. I run around with Sir Kay teleporting in the center of a group of enemies, spam wirlwind and out heal every/most remaining counterattacks B). I can land bleeds of 50 points per turn/action and thus heal the equivalent :D Could sent you a screenshot of the built if you want it.
All of my Marksman are dismissed except Sir Damas because he was clearly the best of the ones I have access to. I mean you have to have them on your roster for endgame to even gear them you know :p. Also, you mention using marksman past act 1, but even in act 1 they suck because the lost are immune to poison, which most of them have to rely on at that point. They are usable, but they depend on getting OP relics to be even functional. The devs need to slice of some of the absurd bonuses gear gives and back it into their base kit. They also need skills that aren't boring as heck to use. It gives a bad first impression of the game because Sages and Arcanists are so much more fun to use.
I agree with a lot of what you're saying. I don't think they suck in Act one however. Just because they can't set the poison condition with poison arrow is ultimately minor. You have limited ranged options and being able to use two range in act 1 enables me to go hitless in many fights I would otherwise take hits in.
She's personally one of my favorites and a beast in the early game. In my playthroughs I've just managed to get more or better results from Bors, Damas and Geraint. Especially Bors if you're talking about the endgame.
I think marksman are especially bad on higher difficulty levels because enemies are damage sponges. This is made worse by the Fomorian season. Arcanists do more damage, have way more utility, and are even tankier. Marksmen need a massive buff to base damage and some Tier 3 class defining abilities along the lines of killing spree, not just small percentage damage buffs. For example, an ability that lets them take one shot at every enemy in range, or a passive that lets them take two shots on every overwatch shot, or a passive that counterattacks ranged attacks if they're hit while in cover.
The way they currently operate it almost feels like all their skills need a cost reduction of 1. Using Bors with the Soul Merchant chest piece with this effect just shows what such a huge difference it makes and he actually feels good and fun to use with actual good damage numbers
@@maxxalos1267 Their passive are definitely defining problem with their class. they seem to be based around the idea that your first attack is strongest and the way they're meant to cheat action economy in the game is through re-occurring damage. Adrenaline as a perk seem to imply large burst of power right at the start of the fight, I think the perk is suppose to be written as something like "First move in a turn costs no AP" and their first shot perk sounds like its suppose to be written as "First move in a turn increases damage by 100%". The hunter skill looks like its suppose to be written as "AP of ranged skill is reduced by 1 on the target when inflicted by damage over time status effects". You can easily how all archer's kit easily comes together with all these passives. they use their elemental arrow as their first attack(poison arrow or fire arrow), because the damage of the attack is doubled, it means their DoT becomes doubled, then they can shoot enemy more times because cost of the shoot skill is reduced. Their aimed shot also starts to make more sense because they get high impact burst damage move that does not cost AP because currently there is no reason to press that move. So just picture Lady Dindraine for example. she fires burning arrow turn 1, it does 100 damage in act 4. This translate into 80 burn damage for 3 turns(the big boar have like 500 hp on Hard), Now her hunter skill triggers which reduce cost of poison arrow to 2 and shoot to 3. She can now press Poison arrow for 2 AP into poison bomb for 3 AP into shoot for 3 ap. 2+3+3 = 8 AP. Thanks to Adrenaline, First shot and Hunter, she can now press her skills and all her skills gain the max benefit. I also think poison and bleed effect on normal skills, they all seem to be written as 10% and 15%. I think this number is suppose to be like 40% because that matches Tristan's basic attack number and it seems like those skills that apply bleed or poison were purposely reduced to an insignificant number to make players avoid using marksman.
The marksman useful drop off is like a cliff, which is too bad - I enjoyed playing Sir Geraint as a durable marksman with some control. But the damage flatlines fast. But then I unlocked Morganna and then it’s like, yeah easy odd man out! I’m still early Act 2 but running Mordred, Balan, Merlin and Morganna. Will probably use Lancelot when possible instead of Mordred eventually and just go full nuke / control team.
You can make them fun and strong again in the endgame, but it's a heavy resource investment. You really just have to want to play Marksman. Lancelot, Balan, Merlin and Morgana will probably tear stuff up.
@@maxxalos1267 I think Sir Yvain can work all game. Yvain is mile ahead all the marksman because of how his damage stacking works. He is only marksman that is viable from level 1 to max level in story mode. Yvain gain damage bonus from following effect when a target is burning/poison/bleed is applied to the target. +20% from torture(burning) +35% from weak point+Assassin(poison) +15% from bleeding He has 70% damage increase from applying status effects. Tristan+Sir Ector(Arcanist with blood hex+bleed hex) are his best allies. When assassinated is applied, he is getting 110% damage increase. Tristan can use Gas trap to apply poison to entire team and he has throw dagger for more poison. Sir Ector has bleed and burning. If you setup Sir Yvain, he can do vanguard-level damage from a range. He has good passive that grants 2% gold on missions so he gives extra money throughout the run. I do not agree with his D-tier status. In early game, I got this relic called spiritbow(which did 12 damage, -2 tileset, gain +2 ap on first kill, deals 50% damage to adjacent target) +this orb relic that increase tileset +1, vulnerability 10%. I was hitting somewhere between 25-30 damage per shoot and I had +3 ap on kill which was hitting target adjacent, so each shoot was doing 50%+70%(130% damage)+170% damage. He also has awesome passive to give a ton of gold to your team.
@@dodang_9147 Marksman damage just isn't as good as the other classes except for in Act 1. In act 1 he or Dindraine work interchangeably in my experience. He has assassination, which is great, but it's countered by his two other terrible unique skills that cost way too much AP and can't benefit from as many damage buffs or backstabs. His gold bonus is nice though. I've just always been underwhelmed whenever I try to use him. If you're talking late game then Bors is hands down the best and it's not even close if you're using the soul merchant gear.
@@maxxalos1267 he does not need to use piercing shot or arrow rain. technically arrow rain is kinda good if a lot of units clump up but its not required. Lady Dindraine and Sir Bors fall off in act 2 and act 3 because they rely on using their attacks to apply debuffs before they can press shoot but this leaves them to have no AP to actually press shoot. they're 1 turn too short with poor damage. For example, I tried making Lady Dindraine build that revolved around spamming fire arrow+poison arrow using 2 relic (1 relic makes poison arrow have -1 turn cooldown and other relic gives -1 burning arrow cooldown). The idea was to run Mortred, Morgana, Lady dindraine and La fay to apply burn/chill/shock in AoE to stun enemy team but the issue was that Lady Dindraine never had enough AP to ever use shoot and the damage output was just not there. This problem exists on basically all archers, including Bors. Sir Yvain does not have this problem. he can use his allies to apply bleed, fire and poison. He is only archer to be able to benefit from all 3 effects because of his assassination passive. With blood hex, throwing dagger poison or gas trap(Tristan is best to use because of alchemist reducing cost of both dagger and gas trap to use them in 1 turn), he gets 70% damage increase. With death hex, Death hex removes targets vitality by 30% and with enough hex intensity, it puts targets into assassination territory. This means he can do 1 shoot that does 210% damage. He also has 2 ap recovery on kill and he can technically get a 3rd ap recovery on kill if you use a potion on him. With soul merchant bow and relic, his first kill, he will GAIN ap instead of losing AP on an attack on first target he kills and since he is attacking two targets at once, he can often 0-100 get 2-3 kills in 1 turn. that is incredible for an archer in act 1-2. I think only problem with archer as a whole is that they get hardcountered by Lost ones because Lost ones are immune to bleed/poison and the archer do not gain AP due to the corpse mechanic in the game. I do not think he is interchangeable with any other archers and if your ranking these archers off their base-kit. he is by far best one in base-kit. With correct relic items, he's way ahead of all other archers. He is cheating AP economy and archer damage so heavily that he is nearly rivalling vanguard in damage output when not facing the lost ones.
@@dodang_9147 I mean, if you like how he performs then sure. I'm not really going to exchange paragraphs about it. Saying he can rival vanguards in damage though is kind of a weird statement. Maybe with like completely full soul merchant gear and if you build a team around him, but that's so much more work when you can just drop a vanguard in with one movement ap cost reduction gear item and then they'll run around and murder everything with zero difficulty or needing a team built around them.
Finally! You made it!
Maybe arcanists leveling guide?)
Sure, I can do that one next
@@maxxalos1267 that'll be great!)
icewalled marksmen with "cover expert","adrenaline" and "ready" paired with items that increase overwatch damage and lower ap used for overwatch are actually quiete good. Without season armor i would say yvain is the best purely based on assasination, but with seasonal armor sir bors is just miles ahead of all of them (but needs the item that removes the negativ trait). 2 ap shoot in overwatch with several bonusses to overwatch damage lets him easily attack 5+ enemies. I think there was even a second item that reduces overwatch ap used but have not found during my full range run so far so might be mistaken, but if it exist that would be 1 ap for shoot.
5ap lightning arrow for 200% damage vs. 2ap overwatch attacks with 120%+ damage (can easily reach 200% with equip). I feel marksman abilitys suck hard and overwatch is the way to go.
Very nice videos mate.I am playing on very hard,close to finish act 2,and i was watching your video with the white knight Lancelot team,the problem i have is how do you know to save essences for late heroes,cos 10% weapon dmg for example you get in act 1.I was playing Balan,Ector Balin Tristan so far and it's very good, hardest mission so far was Lucan recruiting one by far.
Well I'm on my 8th run now (I think) so I just have a lot of game knowledge to know what I want and who I want to have what. Kind of have an idea of what kind of party comps I'm going to use or try to mess around with. That video was actually my second Rightful/Christian run so I knew from the start I was going to use that team and for that team I wanted the 10% weapon damage essence on White Knight. I do have a guide to essences if you're interested that may be able to help you out in a more general sense though for your essence decision making.
Of course,was kinda of rethoric thing,was talking about when i play the first time,for you, obviously you know all heroes . Thank you anyway for all the work,this game for me is one of the best this year,love the lore and the darkness in this Avalon.
@@tarkus5732 I'm happy to provide the content, I'm glad you enjoy it. It's been a real standout for me too. Ended up loving it way more than I thought I ever would.
I'm still working up to the one achievement that requires a full roster of marksmen. Just don't see that working against deep armor fomorians LOL
Are markman still crappy like this or did they got changes in the mean time? I have been evading them in my first run but was wondering whether i should use them in the next one
No changes to them yet sadly. Devs mentioned that they will have a major announcement concerning details and release dates for the next major patch and first DLC soon. Hoping Marksman get some love with either of these content updates.
@@maxxalos1267 thx for your swift reply. I was thinking of going tyrant christian, went rightfull old faith first. Since that direction has i believe less sages and arcanists i thought maybe there is some place for marksman in my roster, if they are worth it lol
@@gamingbros8472 I think rightful old faith is better for a first run anyways. more roster diversity.
@@maxxalos1267 btw one thing i picked up on. This season you have this armor that redeems HP from bleeding enemies and that axe thing that bleeds extra for champions, its a pretty strong combo i think. At the one but hardest diff im running through hordes of famorians with no armor, outhealing their dps xD. 2 essences i run so support the built were 2 extra injury tokens, and extra bleeding damage applied. I run around with Sir Kay teleporting in the center of a group of enemies, spam wirlwind and out heal every/most remaining counterattacks B). I can land bleeds of 50 points per turn/action and thus heal the equivalent :D
Could sent you a screenshot of the built if you want it.
@@gamingbros8472 Sure, that sounds really cool. Thank you, I don't think I've encountered that armor.
All of my Marksman are dismissed except Sir Damas because he was clearly the best of the ones I have access to. I mean you have to have them on your roster for endgame to even gear them you know :p. Also, you mention using marksman past act 1, but even in act 1 they suck because the lost are immune to poison, which most of them have to rely on at that point. They are usable, but they depend on getting OP relics to be even functional. The devs need to slice of some of the absurd bonuses gear gives and back it into their base kit. They also need skills that aren't boring as heck to use. It gives a bad first impression of the game because Sages and Arcanists are so much more fun to use.
I agree with a lot of what you're saying. I don't think they suck in Act one however. Just because they can't set the poison condition with poison arrow is ultimately minor. You have limited ranged options and being able to use two range in act 1 enables me to go hitless in many fights I would otherwise take hits in.
There is an infinite AP lady dindarine build as long as you can get kills its like infinite Arrows but i dont know the build is for which act
Its not possible anymore as it was patched.
@@ExcessumGaming sad
I have to disagree lady d is the best marksperson in the game the loadout and bluffs allow her to shoot 4 time in a turn but great video
She's personally one of my favorites and a beast in the early game. In my playthroughs I've just managed to get more or better results from Bors, Damas and Geraint. Especially Bors if you're talking about the endgame.
I think marksman are especially bad on higher difficulty levels because enemies are damage sponges. This is made worse by the Fomorian season. Arcanists do more damage, have way more utility, and are even tankier. Marksmen need a massive buff to base damage and some Tier 3 class defining abilities along the lines of killing spree, not just small percentage damage buffs. For example, an ability that lets them take one shot at every enemy in range, or a passive that lets them take two shots on every overwatch shot, or a passive that counterattacks ranged attacks if they're hit while in cover.
The way they currently operate it almost feels like all their skills need a cost reduction of 1. Using Bors with the Soul Merchant chest piece with this effect just shows what such a huge difference it makes and he actually feels good and fun to use with actual good damage numbers
@@maxxalos1267 Their passive are definitely defining problem with their class. they seem to be based around the idea that your first attack is strongest and the way they're meant to cheat action economy in the game is through re-occurring damage.
Adrenaline as a perk seem to imply large burst of power right at the start of the fight, I think the perk is suppose to be written as something like "First move in a turn costs no AP" and their first shot perk sounds like its suppose to be written as "First move in a turn increases damage by 100%". The hunter skill looks like its suppose to be written as "AP of ranged skill is reduced by 1 on the target when inflicted by damage over time status effects".
You can easily how all archer's kit easily comes together with all these passives. they use their elemental arrow as their first attack(poison arrow or fire arrow), because the damage of the attack is doubled, it means their DoT becomes doubled, then they can shoot enemy more times because cost of the shoot skill is reduced. Their aimed shot also starts to make more sense because they get high impact burst damage move that does not cost AP because currently there is no reason to press that move.
So just picture Lady Dindraine for example. she fires burning arrow turn 1, it does 100 damage in act 4. This translate into 80 burn damage for 3 turns(the big boar have like 500 hp on Hard), Now her hunter skill triggers which reduce cost of poison arrow to 2 and shoot to 3. She can now press Poison arrow for 2 AP into poison bomb for 3 AP into shoot for 3 ap. 2+3+3 = 8 AP. Thanks to Adrenaline, First shot and Hunter, she can now press her skills and all her skills gain the max benefit.
I also think poison and bleed effect on normal skills, they all seem to be written as 10% and 15%. I think this number is suppose to be like 40% because that matches Tristan's basic attack number and it seems like those skills that apply bleed or poison were purposely reduced to an insignificant number to make players avoid using marksman.
The marksman useful drop off is like a cliff, which is too bad - I enjoyed playing Sir Geraint as a durable marksman with some control. But the damage flatlines fast.
But then I unlocked Morganna and then it’s like, yeah easy odd man out!
I’m still early Act 2 but running Mordred, Balan, Merlin and Morganna.
Will probably use Lancelot when possible instead of Mordred eventually and just go full nuke / control team.
You can make them fun and strong again in the endgame, but it's a heavy resource investment. You really just have to want to play Marksman. Lancelot, Balan, Merlin and Morgana will probably tear stuff up.
@@maxxalos1267 I think Sir Yvain can work all game. Yvain is mile ahead all the marksman because of how his damage stacking works. He is only marksman that is viable from level 1 to max level in story mode. Yvain gain damage bonus from following effect when a target is burning/poison/bleed is applied to the target.
+20% from torture(burning)
+35% from weak point+Assassin(poison)
+15% from bleeding
He has 70% damage increase from applying status effects. Tristan+Sir Ector(Arcanist with blood hex+bleed hex) are his best allies. When assassinated is applied, he is getting 110% damage increase. Tristan can use Gas trap to apply poison to entire team and he has throw dagger for more poison. Sir Ector has bleed and burning. If you setup Sir Yvain, he can do vanguard-level damage from a range. He has good passive that grants 2% gold on missions so he gives extra money throughout the run. I do not agree with his D-tier status. In early game, I got this relic called spiritbow(which did 12 damage, -2 tileset, gain +2 ap on first kill, deals 50% damage to adjacent target) +this orb relic that increase tileset +1, vulnerability 10%.
I was hitting somewhere between 25-30 damage per shoot and I had +3 ap on kill which was hitting target adjacent, so each shoot was doing 50%+70%(130% damage)+170% damage. He also has awesome passive to give a ton of gold to your team.
@@dodang_9147 Marksman damage just isn't as good as the other classes except for in Act 1. In act 1 he or Dindraine work interchangeably in my experience. He has assassination, which is great, but it's countered by his two other terrible unique skills that cost way too much AP and can't benefit from as many damage buffs or backstabs. His gold bonus is nice though. I've just always been underwhelmed whenever I try to use him. If you're talking late game then Bors is hands down the best and it's not even close if you're using the soul merchant gear.
@@maxxalos1267 he does not need to use piercing shot or arrow rain. technically arrow rain is kinda good if a lot of units clump up but its not required. Lady Dindraine and Sir Bors fall off in act 2 and act 3 because they rely on using their attacks to apply debuffs before they can press shoot but this leaves them to have no AP to actually press shoot. they're 1 turn too short with poor damage. For example, I tried making Lady Dindraine build that revolved around spamming fire arrow+poison arrow using 2 relic (1 relic makes poison arrow have -1 turn cooldown and other relic gives -1 burning arrow cooldown). The idea was to run Mortred, Morgana, Lady dindraine and La fay to apply burn/chill/shock in AoE to stun enemy team but the issue was that Lady Dindraine never had enough AP to ever use shoot and the damage output was just not there. This problem exists on basically all archers, including Bors.
Sir Yvain does not have this problem. he can use his allies to apply bleed, fire and poison. He is only archer to be able to benefit from all 3 effects because of his assassination passive. With blood hex, throwing dagger poison or gas trap(Tristan is best to use because of alchemist reducing cost of both dagger and gas trap to use them in 1 turn), he gets 70% damage increase. With death hex, Death hex removes targets vitality by 30% and with enough hex intensity, it puts targets into assassination territory. This means he can do 1 shoot that does 210% damage.
He also has 2 ap recovery on kill and he can technically get a 3rd ap recovery on kill if you use a potion on him. With soul merchant bow and relic, his first kill, he will GAIN ap instead of losing AP on an attack on first target he kills and since he is attacking two targets at once, he can often 0-100 get 2-3 kills in 1 turn. that is incredible for an archer in act 1-2. I think only problem with archer as a whole is that they get hardcountered by Lost ones because Lost ones are immune to bleed/poison and the archer do not gain AP due to the corpse mechanic in the game.
I do not think he is interchangeable with any other archers and if your ranking these archers off their base-kit. he is by far best one in base-kit. With correct relic items, he's way ahead of all other archers. He is cheating AP economy and archer damage so heavily that he is nearly rivalling vanguard in damage output when not facing the lost ones.
@@dodang_9147 I mean, if you like how he performs then sure. I'm not really going to exchange paragraphs about it. Saying he can rival vanguards in damage though is kind of a weird statement. Maybe with like completely full soul merchant gear and if you build a team around him, but that's so much more work when you can just drop a vanguard in with one movement ap cost reduction gear item and then they'll run around and murder everything with zero difficulty or needing a team built around them.