Rereading Chapter 34 in a ADWD I am struck by this passage where Bran is thinking to himself about how sad the story of Children of the Forest's extinction is. "She seemed sad when she said it, and that made Bran sad as well. *It was only later that he thought, Men would not be sad. Men would be wroth. Men would hate and swear a bloody vengeance. The singers sing sad songs, where men would fight and kill.*" I don't think there's a passage in the entire series which lends more credence to what you're arguing here than this one.
They didn't know the weirwoods were important. Perhaps it would be more correct if he said "The men of the North chopped down the weirwood trees along with the other trees, probably for firewood."
He means to say physical aggressors with violence. The FM probably thought the Weirwood trees were scary and they knew they held significance to someone or something because trees like that don’t occur naturally Humans have a tendency til destroy that which scares us and that which we do not understand
The Children inadvertently brought about their own destruction. In their desperation to defeat mankind, they created the Walkers as a means to defeat them. But the Walkers are a Doomsday Machine. Mutually assured destruction.
I feel like this theory isn't true. Let me explain why. The children didn't attack first. It was their first contact with humans, they didn't know what was attacking their sacred grounds and habitats nor did they speak their language. You need only look at the human first contacts to see they in most cases result in bloodshed. It seems they took to the deep forests because that was their natural habitat. And I think you are looking far too much into the "wisest thing". Its a legend, and some people are indeed more wise than others (this is especially true when legends are concerned). I think the First Men adopted the Old Gods because they saw direct evidence of the magic stemming from them. Like shattering of the Arm of Dorne and creation of the Neck's swamps. They were granted powers by the Children (possibly via the Pact or after the others invaded). All this contributed to worship.
+RobLucci yeah, this felt kind of like, we didn't wipe out the natives, they attacked us first, we were just peacefully invading and desecrating their lands:P
It is said that the Crannogmen might have bred with the COF such that they were given greensight. This doesn’t explain how the current Bran is such a powerful greenseer
Yes, I also think that when it says the "wisest of both races prevailed" it means that the wisest people on both sides convinced their sides to negotiate instead of continuing the war.
Also, if the Children were killed by the Andals, why aren't they in the North? Remember, no Andals made it North. You can bet the Northern Kings would have loved to have the Children backing them. I think the Children were driven out by both the Andals and the First Men working together. (This is somewhat hinted at in "The World of Ice and Fire".
The children of the forest were victims of mankind. They weren't the aggressors, they were defending their land, which they had great respect for. If they are the aggressors in the book i'm okay with this. Well maybe not. But i at least inderstand their pov. Nice work btw.
Using ice wall to stop the Others is like using fire to stop the dragons. In both cases, they will be strengthened instead. You are absolutely right, something is very wrong...
Fire can kill dragons (balerion has burned dragons before) the doom of valyria which is basically a volcanic eruption was strong enough to kill dragons
You raised some good points. Particularly, what reason do the Children have to help mankind? But then my next question is who/what is Blood Raven working for?
The split into others and the children is actually supported by the irish mythology thing. I've been looking more into the connection since your last video and there is an idea that the sídhe split into two races.The place where the ones which represent the dead actually live is literally called the otherworld. Agree that the children of the forest are little shits and not the good guys that everyone is maing out. But I don't think that the others are neccesarily evil. The others were likely involved in the pact and the building of the wall (we're seriously expected to believe that three races (humans, cotf and giants) who have no connection with ice built a giant wall made of ice to keep magical ice creatures out). The night's watch is roaming further into their territory more frequently. This could be viewed by the others as an act of war as it breaks the pact to keep to their own lands.
+Grainne McKeown I heard an interesting theory about this. Perhaps, powerful wargs and greenseers (the children have these powers as well, and humans likely got it from the children) pass into the Weirwood 'hivemind' once they die. Obviously, some of them would not want to stay there and they would want to get out. You could warg a human corpse, but the corpse decays. So they developed ice magic to slow or stop the decaying process. Now, we have the Others.
+99superjesus Kinda plausible... For the TV Show. Remember, GRRM describes them as a "different kind of life," and as "beautiful and other-worldly." Not really rotting corpses if you ask me.
Steward of Autumn Why would three races who have no power over ice build a wall to protect themselves from a race which has power over ice? The use of magic does not refute my point
That's why I love aSoIaF, the backstory about the first men, thr children and the others is so mysterious and creepy. So will the story end with all of the Weirwood trees being burned and chopped?
TotalWarTutorials maybe, but I think I wouldn't like that ending. I think it would be cool, because there's even a House that has a burning Tree as sigil.
Before season 6, I theorized that tensions were still amongst the pact between the Children and the First Men. A faction of the children defected and created a spell to create or become the first White Walkers and beyond their will set to destroy all man. Sort of how Sauron oppossed Middle Earth's mightiest with his obsession with the One Ring.
Haven´t watched all of your videos, but I have a (book only) theory about the weirwood trees. Remember that the wights could not enter the weirwood cave of bloodraven or cross the wall (which has some old gods/children of the forest magic in it) and remember, that every firstmen castle used to have a wearwood tree inside its walls. What if these trees were just another line of defense for the castles against enemies like the others?
dude, after watching 5 minutes of your video of about Jon not being a Targareyen - I thought you were another wanna be game of thrones youtuber, but I gave you a chance anyway and now watch all your got videos and pretty much agree with you on almost everything or at least can see where you're coming from with your ideas......subbed
i really like the new style of your videos! i've been watching a lot of theory videos since i started watching game of thrones around season 2. i found your older videos kind of hard to watch, because it was just you in front of a camera, presenting something you didn't seem to have scripted or structured before. not only does the clearness of your theories benefit from the compression of your thoughts, but the videos are also much more interesting to watch due to the images. i somehow really wanted to tell you that. good job!
I actually found a book in my attic called- Don't Tell the Grown Up's- it's a funny book explaining why kids like fairy tales, despite the violence. This was the first thing that I thought of after watching your video! I really think you're on to something. Children are in a developmental stage where they're still learning the consequences of their actions. This is probably why the Children of the Forrest are so inconsistent. They can't seem to grasp what their actions will cause, and the violence doesn't really register with them. This is one of my new favorite theories! I also like your Jon Snow theory!
I hope you are wrong but fear you may be onto the last big plot twist in this story. My hope is that since the children made the pact with the first men and the Stark's are loyal first men worshipers of the old gods so maybe the children genuinely do want to help at least Bran and the Stark's, hopefully lol.
+Bobby Lyons yea, at the very least they do need a few humans on their side, like bloodraven and bran. what does it mean anyway to be the keeper of memories for centuries if they're not onto something?
+Maggy Frog Exactly, if there is any helpful knowledge in Westeros (besides maybe Old Town but that is why Sam is heading there) with regards to stopping the WW's the CotF/BR must have it, or they are evil...
Bobby Lyons i don't like that the show explicitly made the ww look like they are definitely the evil guys. they're not ugly at all in the books and the cotf are not explicitly described as the good guys either. and they killed jojen in the show, there's a very sick possibility that in the books the cotf might have done something to him for bran, won't spoil it if you haven't read the books
+Maggy Frog Yeah I totally agree, it would be more interesting to have seen them shown as described in the books. I suspect the WW's from the books posed too many visual issues for them to attempt (camouflaged ice armor for a start) so a rewrite/redesign of the character was easier and cheaper. Just a guess though GRRM was on the series at that point so it may be safe to assume he is/was okay with the change...or not.
+Maggy Frog I don't think the appearance of the white walkers necessarily makes them "evil". I do think they explicitly oppose humans and, as the video explains, may have good reasons for that.
The videos are getting better and better, as are the theories. Keep up the great work. So if the Children are against man, then where does Blood Raven stand. Is he being manipulated or is he in league with them?
TheTopHatManiac They're the offended party in this conflict, and they aren't human. That's all I need to know that they're better and need to win this.
John Doe Humans are nothing more than another species walking this earth. No better than any other species and yet no worse. The key difference is our intelligence and power. If somehow, cows advanced faster than we did, I guarantee they would rule the world in no better fashion than humans. Humans are not evil. They are creatures like all the others in the animal kingdom.
How can you say the children attacked first? The trees weren't just trees. They were the representation of their gods. Imagine someone went chopping up churches for the wood. The trees were holy, to the children at least. People would get mad and feel attacked if you did something like that to something so sacred to them.
They didn't know the weirwoods were important. Perhaps it would be more correct if he said "The men of the North chopped down the weirwood trees along with the other trees, probably for firewood."
The Singers/Children weren't the aggressors, the humans attacked first when they started to chop down the weirwoods. There are gods in the trees, if your definition of gods isn't so rigid that you disagree with the children when they call the ancient greenseers in the weirwoods their gods.
0:57 ~ 1:07 I don't agree with this, The children tend to be very Dryad in appeal. Men targeting weirwood trees could potentially be a child life not just far sight. In the minds of the children's humans attacked first. If anything its a huge disrespect when you know something is sacred to a neighbor and you decide to ignore that in favor of your own agenda. The children are magical and very trickster'ish like fay beings. They first tried to rationalize with a losing war with humans with religious notes sure. Did they make the walkers, yes but I have a feeling the walkers are out of their control now and they're just as much a problem as humans.
i never even thought about that! that makes really good seance! i think u are right about all of that and we will see that in the books if they ever come out or in the show. while watching this video i can't stop and think about that one seen in the new trailer with bran and the others!
Aren't the Children one with the Weirwoods? So, chopping one down would be like killing one of their own. That would make the First Men the unknowing aggressors.
I disagree the weirwoods across westeros are nothing but copies of thr original, like cctv cameras giving a live feed of whats going on, if one gets takeb out, the amount of information is just reduced.
+Kothar So you look at it a bit like a bug's compound eye? Except each individual fragment sees something different? If I understood you correctly, then that's the equivalent of a security guard watching a wall of camera feeds until the perfect cliche cinematic opportunity to cut the feed to one particular camera at a time without that guard noticing.
bob513993 Exactly, its the magic equivalent of a virtual simulator, but instead of making a fictional setting, it takes you back into the past in perfect detail, which will see evidence for this season.
+Kothar Well, we know that the destruction of weirwoods in the south is what instigated the Children into attacking. Why would losing a camera provoke equally as aggressive a response as attacking the Children directly presumably would have?
you certainly have the freshest most interesting theories (which also makes most sense) of all the GOT you-tubers out there. I think you are dead-on about the origin of the others as well as to the true nature of the children of the forrest
They seem suspicious now they're linked with Bloodraven (Bryden Rivers) who is a very dodgy character indeed. He's obviously got some game plan, is it revenge for being sent to the wall by King Aemon? Cant be self preservation as he's untouchable under the tree. The new series 6 shows Bloodraven flashbacks from his time in the nights watch, so i think hes got a big role in the story to come.
Very interesting point about the first men adopting the religion of the children of the forest, I never actually thought about that^^ I still wouldn't hold the first men unaccounted for as they did invade the lands of the children of the forest after all. I also think the children have an agenda of their own, just like everyone else. Great video! :)
Knowing the importance of weirwoods to the children it is fair to say that when the first men chopped the weirwoods down that could be seen as a first aggression. So I would disagree in that respect
The dynamic with the children of the forest and the weirwood trees is symbolism of the interconnectedness and symbiotic nature of all organisms and how the children like most native peoples can live with nature in peace and harmony and "man" destroys everything it comes into contact with by twisting nature to benefit them. The white walkers coming out and why... Well, it's "A Song of Ice and Fire". I think it's about restoring some type of balance and I really think GRRM should have a revelations type explanation and a new beginning and also write something detailing the mysteries of the ancient Ashai and Yi Ti, the shadow people and all that good stuff... The origins. Anyway, I'm rambling... I need the books btw which order do you recommend reading them ?
I so agree with you on the children! It seems to me like the Weirwood are kind of like a super organism that has a special symbiotic relationship through a psychic link with beings of species that protect them in exchange for knowledge. I think the trees are the great other. The children and others are protectors of the great other in a similar way some ants protect the trees in which they make their colony.
Great video! Ok the children of the forest have a master plan. But help me with this: 1.Why would they permit Bran learn everything with BloodRaven (3 eyed raven)? 2.Why would they help BloodRaven survive for so long to teach Bran? 3.Why would they give their our life to protect Bran and BloodRaven? I don't think the Children have control over the White Walkers (at least not anymore). The WW must have their own plans I guess. Maybe they seek some kind of revenge? Maybe they want to bring balance to the world? Many believe that the birth of dragons come with the "revival" of magic and maybe this is not good for the world they live in. Anyone could answer me plz? xDDDD
My theory on the white walkers ( others ) : I believe they were once part of the children of the forest but after the children made the pact with the first men they probably didn’t like the idea and hated how the first men had murdered most of their kin and cut down many of their trees and now they wanted peace, that is probably when a group of children left to the lands of always winter where they grew in numbers and in power thus becoming the white walkers, they later started attacking the first men and killing most of them until the last hero went in search of the children of the forest and he told them of the situation and they both found the white walkers and made a deal that would benefit all of them, the WW would stay in the lands of winter and not attack anyone, while the first men would offer their offsprings to the WW and not cut down any ware wood trees, years later this deal was broken when they killed the night’s king and his WW bride thus stopping the offerings and breaking the pact that was made, centuries later they are coming back for revenge and this time plan to destroy all the race of men with the long night.
awesome video man, I've been saying the same shit and been focusing a lot of the children, the wall, blood raven, and this stuff a lot more than the battle for the throne in the 7 kingdoms. the show and the book both start off with the others or white walkers, that's the main plot. then the game of thrones is the diversion. I'm really hoping for an eradication of men and the children being at peace with all of nature again
> totally disagree but I love your content. The trees were extension of their bodies, so to speak. If someone came and start cutting the limbs of your loved ones, butchering - how are you the evil one for fighting back????(in misguided way, when they were at the end of the rope...)
I think during the War of the Dawn, the CotF likely avoiding fighting at the beginning out of hesitation rather than an alternative motive. Maybe they even hoped the First Men would just leave/die and they'd get their land back. But devising a plan to use up possibly the last of their magic to build a wall to block off the White Walkers/Others, while at the same time in league with the White Walkers seems odd. Where they wouldn't strike back for another 8,000 years (after fighting for 2,000) seems a long time to wait. Furthermore, they represent two sides of their faith, purity vs corruption. GRRM could use them to illustrate man destroying all the good and allowing evil free rein, but I think that the CotF represent the last hope Man has to defeat the Walkders, maybe once and for all.
Man has crossed the set bounderies to the north beyond the wall. The pact has broken, they watched and they remembered, now they will decimate. Only Jon Snow can end the onslaught not by war but by becoming the new pact that was set long ago by the former Lord Commander. Snow must become the NEW lord beyond the wall and take a bride. Jon knew nothing it is true but Jon knew love and he loved no other more than Ygrette. With his Ice bride Ygrette by his side Jon will rule the north until 99 more Lord Commanders come and go.
I love your stuff, have you ever watched Teflontv? you and he where the first 2 I saw on TH-cam saying the Children of the Forest were not what they seem.His video actually was first it came 9 days before your original video on the Children. I was just thinking maybe the 2 of you could do a video together. You are both one of the very few blacks discussing Thrones on youtube and it would be nice to see you do something together
so...... We prefer to be called Black PEOPLE (emphasis added), not 'blacks.' Just calling someone a color and ignoring our personhood is *enormously* offensive. I'm only telling you because I don't think you did it on purpose. PLEASE inform your friends!! :)
I'm blaq AND a woman! If a woman I don't know called me something I didn't like, I would say "please don't call me that." In both cases I'm just talking about how *I* want to be addressed. I am in no way the ambassador for All People of Color :) If you're okay with people calling us "blacks," I don't love you any less. Seriously, no shade! peace brother
It'd be interesting if the Children forced the Others into weakening the humans so they could attack. Given Martins tendency to shatter expectations, I'm extremely confident the Others will turn out to be sympathetic figures.
***** Exactly! Maybe as Bran goes back farther and farther in time he'll uncover the truth but by then Jojen and Meera will be gone and he'll be stuck to the tree. He'll have to make the ultimate sacrifice in saving the world, but also destroying the lair that he's attached to. He'll get his childhood fantasy of being the knight he always wanted to be. It fits with Martin's comments that the ending will be bittersweet (although that sounds more sad than bittersweet tbh...)
Some pretty good points were brought up. I wouldn't hold it past the Children to hold a grudge against humans. As to whether they made some kind of alliance with the Others, I don't know. The Others seem to be held at bay by the magic of the weirwood trees and roots.
I didn't agree with all of what was said, but I enjoyed hearing about it. Also interesting that so many assume that "we" would side with the humans in this, although not surprising.
question who said valar morghulis first. the children of the forest said valar morghulis first when the first men came to cut down the weirwood trees. and then they make the white walkers out of a man (who was that man) what was his importance. is his his anger why he is attacking again. crastor made 99 male children now white walkers minus a couple that jon and sam killed. who is "the lord of light" the one holding the flaming sword -Azor Ahai? or maybe just a symbolical of someone great -Garth Greenhand
The Children brought their destruction upon themselves, and partly deserved it. They started the first war with the humans, destroyed the world and nearly wiped themselves out with their sacrifices, and created the White Walkers knowing full well what they would do. I don't feel sorry for them at all. In fact, I'm forced to wonder how the heck they lasted this long if the answers to all of their problem is world changing magic.
interesting theory. Although, it seems they kind of need people. Like Bran. I mean, the whole reason they brought him there was to help stop the white walkers. could be that they created or turned into white walkers and kept it from the humans. but saying they are working together is a bit far. coldhands, might support your theory, but we can't forget other white walkers and others wanted to attack bran too. also, the wall is magical. white walkers and others cannot pass, if they do they will die. which is why the wall will have to be destroyed.
You said that CotF attacked first. But you yourself said that the FM chopped down the Weirwoods. That is attacking pretty much. Do you think someone would stay silent if you were destroying his temple. So yeah FM started the conflict.
Maybe that's why the Children in the show look human. The Others can breed with humans right, or did that king with the Other wife not have kids with her? If the Others are descended from the Children maybe the Children can too.
White walkers are just 2 midget children in a walker costume #openyoureyes
Maybe this is where the phrase "The north remembers" comes from.
Nice.
+Don Willi haha thats an awesome idea
WOW, that would totally fit with the colonial allegory here: first they take your land, then they take your slang...
The north remembers lord davos, the north remembers and the mummers farce is at an end
I thought the saying came to existence after Ned Starks death
Rereading Chapter 34 in a ADWD I am struck by this passage where Bran is thinking to himself about how sad the story of Children of the Forest's extinction is.
"She seemed sad when she said it, and that made Bran sad as well. *It was only later that he thought, Men would not be sad. Men would be wroth. Men would hate and swear a bloody vengeance. The singers sing sad songs, where men would fight and kill.*"
I don't think there's a passage in the entire series which lends more credence to what you're arguing here than this one.
if you defend your culture or property, you are not the aggressor.
Depends on perspective, after all the villain is just the hero for the other side.
It's self defense.
Eh... if the other side didn't know what they were doing, then it's reasonable to say that the rush to violence makes the aggressor.
Hate to be that guy but plenty of the nazis thought they were defending their culture against the Jews
@@markharrison6498 please be more explicit when making a point.
Didn't Cersei tell you? Power is power.
"The men of the north chopped down the Veirwood trees"
Go on...
"The children appear to be the aggressors in this case"
What?
They didn't know the weirwoods were important. Perhaps it would be more correct if he said "The men of the North chopped down the weirwood trees along with the other trees, probably for firewood."
He means to say physical aggressors with violence.
The FM probably thought the Weirwood trees were scary and they knew they held significance to someone or something because trees like that don’t occur naturally
Humans have a tendency til destroy that which scares us and that which we do not understand
The Children inadvertently brought about their own destruction. In their desperation to defeat mankind, they created the Walkers as a means to defeat them. But the Walkers are a Doomsday Machine. Mutually assured destruction.
I feel like this theory isn't true. Let me explain why. The children didn't attack first. It was their first contact with humans, they didn't know what was attacking their sacred grounds and habitats nor did they speak their language. You need only look at the human first contacts to see they in most cases result in bloodshed. It seems they took to the deep forests because that was their natural habitat. And I think you are looking far too much into the "wisest thing". Its a legend, and some people are indeed more wise than others (this is especially true when legends are concerned). I think the First Men adopted the Old Gods because they saw direct evidence of the magic stemming from them. Like shattering of the Arm of Dorne and creation of the Neck's swamps. They were granted powers by the Children (possibly via the Pact or after the others invaded). All this contributed to worship.
+RobLucci either could be true. Imo it's just how you look at it
+RobLucci yeah, this felt kind of like, we didn't wipe out the natives, they attacked us first, we were just peacefully invading and desecrating their lands:P
It is said that the Crannogmen might have bred with the COF such that they were given greensight.
This doesn’t explain how the current Bran is such a powerful greenseer
Yes, I also think that when it says the "wisest of both races prevailed" it means that the wisest people on both sides convinced their sides to negotiate instead of continuing the war.
Also, if the Children were killed by the Andals, why aren't they in the North? Remember, no Andals made it North. You can bet the Northern Kings would have loved to have the Children backing them. I think the Children were driven out by both the Andals and the First Men working together. (This is somewhat hinted at in "The World of Ice and Fire".
I love theory videos. I try not to take much stock in the theories but you guys definitely lay out a lot of lore
Great job on this video. The narration was appropriately creepy!
+dorsal 2008
Like a Lovecraft audiobook.
+dorsal 2008
Like a Lovecraft audiobook.
the production on this video was awesome. I liked how you slowed down, and really highlighted you main points.
The children of the forest were victims of mankind. They weren't the aggressors, they were defending their land, which they had great respect for. If they are the aggressors in the book i'm okay with this. Well maybe not. But i at least inderstand their pov. Nice work btw.
Using ice wall to stop the Others is like using fire to stop the dragons. In both cases, they will be strengthened instead. You are absolutely right, something is very wrong...
Fire can kill dragons (balerion has burned dragons before) the doom of valyria which is basically a volcanic eruption was strong enough to kill dragons
Of all the flashbacks i would like to see. It would be the age of hero's. I hope we get something of it this season or even better in the next book.
When you're invaded and your lands are settled without your permission, that IS the first act of aggression.
You raised some good points. Particularly, what reason do the Children have to help mankind? But then my next question is who/what is Blood Raven working for?
The split into others and the children is actually supported by the irish mythology thing. I've been looking more into the connection since your last video and there is an idea that the sídhe split into two races.The place where the ones which represent the dead actually live is literally called the otherworld.
Agree that the children of the forest are little shits and not the good guys that everyone is maing out.
But I don't think that the others are neccesarily evil. The others were likely involved in the pact and the building of the wall (we're seriously expected to believe that three races (humans, cotf and giants) who have no connection with ice built a giant wall made of ice to keep magical ice creatures out). The night's watch is roaming further into their territory more frequently. This could be viewed by the others as an act of war as it breaks the pact to keep to their own lands.
+Grainne McKeown I heard an interesting theory about this. Perhaps, powerful wargs and greenseers (the children have these powers as well, and humans likely got it from the children) pass into the Weirwood 'hivemind' once they die. Obviously, some of them would not want to stay there and they would want to get out.
You could warg a human corpse, but the corpse decays. So they developed ice magic to slow or stop the decaying process. Now, we have the Others.
99superjesus Huh. Seems kinda plausible
+99superjesus Kinda plausible... For the TV Show. Remember, GRRM describes them as a "different kind of life," and as "beautiful and other-worldly." Not really rotting corpses if you ask me.
+Grainne McKeown Well the wall has to have help to be built. It is not just ice, it is magic. Meant to specifically keep the white walkers out.
Steward of Autumn Why would three races who have no power over ice build a wall to protect themselves from a race which has power over ice? The use of magic does not refute my point
the first men cut down the weirwoods, so they were the aggressors. the children might have attacked first but that doesn't mean they started it.
Anthony Hamel totally agree with you
That's why I love aSoIaF, the backstory about the first men, thr children and the others is so mysterious and creepy. So will the story end with all of the Weirwood trees being burned and chopped?
or will it all be reclaimed by the Children as promised by the Others?
TotalWarTutorials maybe, but I think I wouldn't like that ending. I think it would be cool, because there's even a House that has a burning Tree as sigil.
+Marat grrm said it will be a bitter sweet victory, but for who?
think movie... Avatar...
Before season 6, I theorized that tensions were still amongst the pact between the Children and the First Men. A faction of the children defected and created a spell to create or become the first White Walkers and beyond their will set to destroy all man. Sort of how Sauron oppossed Middle Earth's mightiest with his obsession with the One Ring.
Haven´t watched all of your videos, but I have a (book only) theory about the weirwood trees. Remember that the wights could not enter the weirwood cave of bloodraven or cross the wall (which has some old gods/children of the forest magic in it) and remember, that every firstmen castle used to have a wearwood tree inside its walls. What if these trees were just another line of defense for the castles against enemies like the others?
The whole ASOIAF story is about nature putting man in its place. That's the big grand overarching theme.
dude, after watching 5 minutes of your video of about Jon not being a Targareyen - I thought you were another wanna be game of thrones youtuber, but I gave you a chance anyway and now watch all your got videos and pretty much agree with you on almost everything or at least can see where you're coming from with your ideas......subbed
4:40 that pic and your sentence combined gives me the chills
Yep you pretty much made the call on this one. Nice work.
I think the Stark words "winter is coming" are open to many interpretations as well as "the north remembers"
i really like the new style of your videos!
i've been watching a lot of theory videos since i started watching game of thrones around season 2. i found your older videos kind of hard to watch, because it was just you in front of a camera, presenting something you didn't seem to have scripted or structured before.
not only does the clearness of your theories benefit from the compression of your thoughts, but the videos are also much more interesting to watch due to the images. i somehow really wanted to tell you that. good job!
Excellent video! I love your Socratic approach to figuring out this story!
The Children were not the aggressors! Consider how important the trees are to them and you will see they were acting in self-defense.
I actually found a book in my attic called- Don't Tell the Grown Up's- it's a funny book explaining why kids like fairy tales, despite the violence. This was the first thing that I thought of after watching your video! I really think you're on to something. Children are in a developmental stage where they're still learning the consequences of their actions. This is probably why the Children of the Forrest are so inconsistent. They can't seem to grasp what their actions will cause, and the violence doesn't really register with them. This is one of my new favorite theories! I also like your Jon Snow theory!
I hope you are wrong but fear you may be onto the last big plot twist in this story. My hope is that since the children made the pact with the first men and the Stark's are loyal first men worshipers of the old gods so maybe the children genuinely do want to help at least Bran and the Stark's, hopefully lol.
+Bobby Lyons
yea, at the very least they do need a few humans on their side, like bloodraven and bran. what does it mean anyway to be the keeper of memories for centuries if they're not onto something?
+Maggy Frog Exactly, if there is any helpful knowledge in Westeros (besides maybe Old Town but that is why Sam is heading there) with regards to stopping the WW's the CotF/BR must have it, or they are evil...
Bobby Lyons
i don't like that the show explicitly made the ww look like they are definitely the evil guys. they're not ugly at all in the books and the cotf are not explicitly described as the good guys either. and they killed jojen in the show, there's a very sick possibility that in the books the cotf might have done something to him for bran, won't spoil it if you haven't read the books
+Maggy Frog Yeah I totally agree, it would be more interesting to have seen them shown as described in the books. I suspect the WW's from the books posed too many visual issues for them to attempt (camouflaged ice armor for a start) so a rewrite/redesign of the character was easier and cheaper. Just a guess though GRRM was on the series at that point so it may be safe to assume he is/was okay with the change...or not.
+Maggy Frog I don't think the appearance of the white walkers necessarily makes them "evil". I do think they explicitly oppose humans and, as the video explains, may have good reasons for that.
The videos are getting better and better, as are the theories. Keep up the great work. So if the Children are against man, then where does Blood Raven stand. Is he being manipulated or is he in league with them?
I think he is trying to win Bran over to THEIR cause. Even to see them in the show, these guys are weird as FUCK.
+TotalWarTutorials yeah but what's weird in a world with dragons, giants, direwolves, shadow babies and purple eyed people with silver hair?
true that sir
"There as many opinions as there are people because we are all individuals."
Well said!
this guy was actually right. GJ i will give this video a like
I'm rooting for the Children of the Forest and the Others.
Fuck humans, their wars, their foolishness and they greed.
+John Doe What makes you believe that The Children and The Others are any less so?
TheTopHatManiac They're the offended party in this conflict, and they aren't human.
That's all I need to know that they're better and need to win this.
John Doe They would probably be just as bad as humans. Power corrupted us. Power can corrupt everyone.
TheTopHatManiac Their brains may not work like humans. They might not have the same vile nature.
Humans are corrupted since birth.
John Doe Humans are nothing more than another species walking this earth. No better than any other species and yet no worse. The key difference is our intelligence and power. If somehow, cows advanced faster than we did, I guarantee they would rule the world in no better fashion than humans. Humans are not evil. They are creatures like all the others in the animal kingdom.
How can you say the children attacked first? The trees weren't just trees. They were the representation of their gods. Imagine someone went chopping up churches for the wood. The trees were holy, to the children at least. People would get mad and feel attacked if you did something like that to something so sacred to them.
+Spock But there was seemingly no diplomacy
They didn't know the weirwoods were important. Perhaps it would be more correct if he said "The men of the North chopped down the weirwood trees along with the other trees, probably for firewood."
In fact, I don't think they even knew the Children existed at first, considering they lived in secluded tree-towns deep inside the forests.
We knew it!!! :D Those creepy things are the creators of the Others.
Well it's confirmed now
great video's and work. I like your calm voice, the music you choose for background and the pictures you're choosing are wonderful. :)
The Singers/Children weren't the aggressors, the humans attacked first when they started to chop down the weirwoods.
There are gods in the trees, if your definition of gods isn't so rigid that you disagree with the children when they call the ancient greenseers in the weirwoods their gods.
Did the children do 9/11? Were the moon landings faked by Sansa Starks pet gerbil?
+Billy Bob Thorton's Pet Anchoive all true
All i want is Daenarys to sit on my face.
+Billy Bob Thorton's Pet Anchoive Find out on the next exciting episode of DRAGON BALL Z!
0:57 ~ 1:07 I don't agree with this, The children tend to be very Dryad in appeal. Men targeting weirwood trees could potentially be a child life not just far sight. In the minds of the children's humans attacked first. If anything its a huge disrespect when you know something is sacred to a neighbor and you decide to ignore that in favor of your own agenda. The children are magical and very trickster'ish like fay beings. They first tried to rationalize with a losing war with humans with religious notes sure. Did they make the walkers, yes but I have a feeling the walkers are out of their control now and they're just as much a problem as humans.
You absolute madman!
i never even thought about that! that makes really good seance! i think u are right about all of that and we will see that in the books if they ever come out or in the show. while watching this video i can't stop and think about that one seen in the new trailer with bran and the others!
In a feast for crows they mentioned that the children of the forrest supports the nights watch with obsidian every year. Why would they do that?
Aren't the Children one with the Weirwoods? So, chopping one down would be like killing one of their own. That would make the First Men the unknowing aggressors.
agreed
I disagree the weirwoods across westeros are nothing but copies of thr original, like cctv cameras giving a live feed of whats going on, if one gets takeb out, the amount of information is just reduced.
+Kothar So you look at it a bit like a bug's compound eye? Except each individual fragment sees something different? If I understood you correctly, then that's the equivalent of a security guard watching a wall of camera feeds until the perfect cliche cinematic opportunity to cut the feed to one particular camera at a time without that guard noticing.
bob513993 Exactly, its the magic equivalent of a virtual simulator, but instead of making a fictional setting, it takes you back into the past in perfect detail, which will see evidence for this season.
+Kothar Well, we know that the destruction of weirwoods in the south is what instigated the Children into attacking. Why would losing a camera provoke equally as aggressive a response as attacking the Children directly presumably would have?
you certainly have the freshest most interesting theories (which also makes most sense) of all the GOT you-tubers out there. I think you are dead-on about the origin of the others as well as to the true nature of the children of the forrest
Wow! That was deep. You have really opened my eyes.
well looks like you're on the right track with this one, concerning the show at least...I'm interested what the book side to this ends up looking like
They seem suspicious now they're linked with Bloodraven (Bryden Rivers) who is a very dodgy character indeed. He's obviously got some game plan, is it revenge for being sent to the wall by King Aemon? Cant be self preservation as he's untouchable under the tree. The new series 6 shows Bloodraven flashbacks from his time in the nights watch, so i think hes got a big role in the story to come.
Very interesting point about the first men adopting the religion of the children of the forest, I never actually thought about that^^ I still wouldn't hold the first men unaccounted for as they did invade the lands of the children of the forest after all. I also think the children have an agenda of their own, just like everyone else. Great video! :)
YOU CALLED IT!!!!!
Knowing the importance of weirwoods to the children it is fair to say that when the first men chopped the weirwoods down that could be seen as a first aggression. So I would disagree in that respect
I don't agree with most to all your theories, but you do bring up interesting points.
The dynamic with the children of the forest and the weirwood trees is symbolism of the interconnectedness and symbiotic nature of all organisms and how the children like most native peoples can live with nature in peace and harmony and "man" destroys everything it comes into contact with by twisting nature to benefit them. The white walkers coming out and why... Well, it's "A Song of Ice and Fire". I think it's about restoring some type of balance and I really think GRRM should have a revelations type explanation and a new beginning and also write something detailing the mysteries of the ancient Ashai and Yi Ti, the shadow people and all that good stuff... The origins. Anyway, I'm rambling... I need the books btw which order do you recommend reading them ?
I so agree with you on the children! It seems to me like the Weirwood are kind of like a super organism that has a special symbiotic relationship through a psychic link with beings of species that protect them in exchange for knowledge. I think the trees are the great other. The children and others are protectors of the great other in a similar way some ants protect the trees in which they make their colony.
Wow u were right all the time! The new episode 5 season 6 explains everything!
I don't know where your naysayers come from but you have been spot on with many of your predictions!
Just gunna leave a like before watching the video because I know it's gunna be a good one.
No where in "A Song of Ice and Fire" is it said that the First Men gave up their gods. It is stated that they adopted the Old Gods however.
and you were right!
I didn't realize the children had them keep a tree in each kingdom! i haven't read the books, but what an interesting twist! good observation!!
Just curious about your theory. Why would the others try to stop bran from entering under the tree if they are working together?
A perfectly okay theory--but like so many in ASOIAF depends mostly upon rumor.
"Nearly eradicated... But NOT eradicated"
A more impactful way to say this would be "nearly eradicated... NEARLY"
Don't see how that's any better, they're both redundancies lol
Ionlymadethistoleavecoments how is that better? It means the same shit!
You called it ! From what I'm seeing online just now you're right about children O_O
Great video!
Ok the children of the forest have a master plan. But help me with this:
1.Why would they permit Bran learn everything with BloodRaven (3 eyed raven)?
2.Why would they help BloodRaven survive for so long to teach Bran?
3.Why would they give their our life to protect Bran and BloodRaven?
I don't think the Children have control over the White Walkers (at least not anymore). The WW must have their own plans I guess. Maybe they seek some kind of revenge? Maybe they want to bring balance to the world? Many believe that the birth of dragons come with the "revival" of magic and maybe this is not good for the world they live in.
Anyone could answer me plz? xDDDD
My theory on the white walkers ( others ) :
I believe they were once part of the children of the forest but after the children made the pact with the first men they probably didn’t like the idea and hated how the first men had murdered most of their kin and cut down many of their trees and now they wanted peace, that is probably when a group of children left to the lands of always winter where they grew in numbers and in power thus becoming the white walkers, they later started attacking the first men and killing most of them until the last hero went in search of the children of the forest and he told them of the situation and they both found the white walkers and made a deal that would benefit all of them, the WW would stay in the lands of winter and not attack anyone, while the first men would offer their offsprings to the WW and not cut down any ware wood trees, years later this deal was broken when they killed the night’s king and his WW bride thus stopping the offerings and breaking the pact that was made, centuries later they are coming back for revenge and this time plan to destroy all the race of men with the long night.
In the winds of winter these things will be revealed I'm so excited
LMAOO
Great job bruh, really entertaining!
awesome video man, I've been saying the same shit and been focusing a lot of the children, the wall, blood raven, and this stuff a lot more than the battle for the throne in the 7 kingdoms. the show and the book both start off with the others or white walkers, that's the main plot. then the game of thrones is the diversion. I'm really hoping for an eradication of men and the children being at peace with all of nature again
you nailed it with this one
> totally disagree but I love your content. The trees were extension of their bodies, so to speak. If someone came and start cutting the limbs of your loved ones, butchering - how are you the evil one for fighting back????(in misguided way, when they were at the end of the rope...)
I think during the War of the Dawn, the CotF likely avoiding fighting at the beginning out of hesitation rather than an alternative motive. Maybe they even hoped the First Men would just leave/die and they'd get their land back. But devising a plan to use up possibly the last of their magic to build a wall to block off the White Walkers/Others, while at the same time in league with the White Walkers seems odd. Where they wouldn't strike back for another 8,000 years (after fighting for 2,000) seems a long time to wait. Furthermore, they represent two sides of their faith, purity vs corruption. GRRM could use them to illustrate man destroying all the good and allowing evil free rein, but I think that the CotF represent the last hope Man has to defeat the Walkders, maybe once and for all.
DUDEE You're SPOT ON!!!!
Loving the vids mate, keep it up!
Man has crossed the set bounderies to the north beyond the wall. The pact has broken, they watched and they remembered, now they will decimate. Only Jon Snow can end the onslaught not by war but by becoming the new pact that was set long ago by the former Lord Commander. Snow must become the NEW lord beyond the wall and take a bride. Jon knew nothing it is true but Jon knew love and he loved no other more than Ygrette. With his Ice bride Ygrette by his side Jon will rule the north until 99 more Lord Commanders come and go.
+Michael Quintana sounds good to
YOU ARE THE BEST!!!!
Something bad is going to happen to bran at that cave I just know it.
I love your stuff, have you ever watched Teflontv? you and he where the first 2 I saw on TH-cam saying the Children of the Forest were not what they seem.His video actually was first it came 9 days before your original video on the Children. I was just thinking maybe the 2 of you could do a video together. You are both one of the very few blacks discussing Thrones on youtube and it would be nice to see you do something together
so...... We prefer to be called Black PEOPLE (emphasis added), not 'blacks.' Just calling someone a color and ignoring our personhood is *enormously* offensive. I'm only telling you because I don't think you did it on purpose. PLEASE inform your friends!! :)
+Setsunako6587 I am black! So are you really trying to tell me how I prefer to be identified? That's bold of you!
I'm blaq AND a woman! If a woman I don't know called me something I didn't like, I would say "please don't call me that." In both cases I'm just talking about how *I* want to be addressed. I am in no way the ambassador for All People of Color :) If you're okay with people calling us "blacks," I don't love you any less. Seriously, no shade! peace brother
Great video Connor!
im from Ireland and i think its cool that the mitos comes from here. love it
not related to the video, but whoa that's a great family portrait of the Lannisters at 1:47
It'd be interesting if the Children forced the Others into weakening the humans so they could attack. Given Martins tendency to shatter expectations, I'm extremely confident the Others will turn out to be sympathetic figures.
+Zikomo7 very cool idea
***** Exactly! Maybe as Bran goes back farther and farther in time he'll uncover the truth but by then Jojen and Meera will be gone and he'll be stuck to the tree. He'll have to make the ultimate sacrifice in saving the world, but also destroying the lair that he's attached to. He'll get his childhood fantasy of being the knight he always wanted to be. It fits with Martin's comments that the ending will be bittersweet (although that sounds more sad than bittersweet tbh...)
Some pretty good points were brought up. I wouldn't hold it past the Children to hold a grudge against humans. As to whether they made some kind of alliance with the Others, I don't know. The Others seem to be held at bay by the magic of the weirwood trees and roots.
I didn't agree with all of what was said, but I enjoyed hearing about it. Also interesting that so many assume that "we" would side with the humans in this, although not surprising.
Wait are people really thinking that they should trust anyone in ice and fire? Have they been reading the same series?
White walkers winter sidhe. Children of the forest summer sidhe. Though the white walkers have a zombie bent. And the children a goblin bent.
question
who said valar morghulis first.
the children of the forest said valar morghulis first when the first men came to cut down the weirwood trees.
and then they make the white walkers out of a man (who was that man) what was his importance. is his his anger why he is attacking again. crastor made 99 male children now white walkers minus a couple that jon and sam killed.
who is "the lord of light"
the one holding the flaming sword -Azor Ahai?
or maybe just a symbolical of someone great -Garth Greenhand
The Children brought their destruction upon themselves, and partly deserved it. They started the first war with the humans, destroyed the world and nearly wiped themselves out with their sacrifices, and created the White Walkers knowing full well what they would do. I don't feel sorry for them at all. In fact, I'm forced to wonder how the heck they lasted this long if the answers to all of their problem is world changing magic.
I love how you are almost always right on the money about most theories except THE BIG ONE. lmao
I won't blame them after all they've lost everything to humains
They arent the aggressors, they are simply defending their land....
interesting theory. Although, it seems they kind of need people. Like Bran. I mean, the whole reason they brought him there was to help stop the white walkers. could be that they created or turned into white walkers and kept it from the humans. but saying they are working together is a bit far. coldhands, might support your theory, but we can't forget other white walkers and others wanted to attack bran too. also, the wall is magical. white walkers and others cannot pass, if they do they will die. which is why the wall will have to be destroyed.
This theory blew my mind.
Very interesting! Really enjoy your videos keep it up my friend! Salute!!
You said that CotF attacked first.
But you yourself said that the FM chopped down the Weirwoods.
That is attacking pretty much.
Do you think someone would stay silent if you were destroying his temple.
So yeah FM started the conflict.
I'd say the first men were unwittingly the aggressors. If some settlers came along and started cutting down your "gods", you'd get upset about it.
Maybe that's why the Children in the show look human. The Others can breed with humans right, or did that king with the Other wife not have kids with her? If the Others are descended from the Children maybe the Children can too.