My animation professor told us that "it's fun with friends" is not a selling point for a game because even pissing on an electric fence is fun with your friends
EXACTLY!!! literal fucking open heart surgery would be more fun if you had your buddies around, to say that a game is 'more fun to play with friends' is like saying "Well, this boiling oil that im pouring onto my genitals sure does hurt, but at least i know all of my friends are pouring hot oil onto their genitals too!"
The fact that the plot of this game is so simplistic, yet Harvey Smith had the audacity to tell in an interview that the vampires are supposedly a metaphor for the 1% absolutely sends me XD
I mean, Vampires being a metaphor for capitalists is an old hat, even Marx used it. Even if it was there that wouldn't be anything to brag about or advertise with.
@@michimatsch5862 yeah, and zombies being a metaphor for "unenlightened masses". It usually requires some skill in executing the idea, without proper execution zombies are just zombies and vampires are just vampires.
Redfall reeked of design by committee and executive mandates from the very start. It must have been an absolute death march working on this game and I feel awful for the devs.
@@danialyousaf6456 It's never that easy. In a job where you're hired based on projects and prior accomplishments, you don't want to write "6 years at Arcane" but "worked on Prey and Dishonored 2". Just riding Redfall out pads resumes (because nobody actually checks if the projects you worked on were any good) and puts them at the start of a new hiring season, where getting a position is easiest.
@@danialyousaf6456 Most people have bills to pay and can't just quit jobs on a whim because they don't like what they're working on. Especially not in an industry as structurally fucked up as game development.
Dude, they have LEBRON JAMES now. Love your vids and I don’t come here for the sports content, but man oh man, you picked a bad time to talk about the Lakers being irrelevant my friend.
It's absolutely clear that Zenimax wanted to make a generic live service game, bailed halfway through when every generic live service game started to fail and we were left with that.
it's most probably the case. it happened with Fallout 76 too. Zenimax wanted more online focused games. even deathloop had a tacked on multiplayer mode
The enemy AI not being able to handle multiple people, there being no matchmaking system, and the enemies not scaling to the amount of players all seem to hint that this game being co-op was decided relatively late into development. That's pure speculation of course, but I highly doubt that co-op was mentioned anywhere on the initial design doc. It would also explain why the loot system is so barebones and weird, along with the four characters feeling like one character split into four skill-tree wise. Redfall very well could've been a single-player game with one protagonist for the majority of its development, only for the game to be retrofitted into a multi-player looter shooter. If that is the case, a ton of stuff starts to make a ton of sense, down to the weird still-frame cutscenes, that could've been because they needed to re-do the cutscenes they already made to fit the different possible protagonists and that was the easiest way to do it. Again, this could all be totally off base, but it really seems like that is the case.
I presume, they wanted to make something like Dishonored, Prey/Typhoon, etc. but were forced by higher ups to change it to make a looter shooter like Borderlands just my assumptions it really feels like that, just by watching this video
Being a multiplayer hero shooter was the main focus of the game's announcement at the tail end of the publisher live service craze, so it certainly seems like it was meant to be co-op (perhaps by dictate of Zenimax/Bethesda) but then they got spooked by the mass failure and consumer revolt against live service clones and tried to rebuild it into a single player Arkane game. In any case they did not have the time, focus or vision to make any version of this game good. It's very possible that this game bounced back and forth between single player focused and multiplayer focused but neither of those games got made.
Worst thing is: there is a good concept in there. Liberating an island from vampires and finding a way to end an eclipse sounds great. A small, but detailed map. Vampires that act like nightmares from prey, so you can use stealth if you want to avoid being detected by them, or you can go head on and get an interesting miniboss fight with loot. Guns that are not differently coloured slop, but a unique additions to your arsenal. Characters with different abilities that compliment eachother. A plot that does actually exist. The game is in here, if only someone actually wanted to make it. I can feel the idea being choked(sorry, strangled) by corporate and THAT is the saddest thing in my opinion. Not what the game is, but what it could have been.
Yeah, slap some small choices on about helping survivors, leaving (mind-controlled) cultists alife despite themselves, etc. and you got a decent Arkane game.
This does not look like the kind of game a historic development studio survives making intact. This looks like a SimCity 5 or a Dead Space 3 or an Epic Mickey 2 style situation that will lead to a massive internal shakeup if not dissolution of the studio. I hope I'm hyperbolic here, but I worry like hell this will be the case.
Oh yea Arcane is dead 70% of the team that made Prey left half way through development because they had such little faith in the project. Zenimax the parent company of Bathesda and Arcane where greedy and threw there teams under the bus to line there pockets
I don't know. There are some rules one should follow: - Don't preoder -don't buy on release date - wait for reviews So if I wanted to buy redmist, I would have waited anyways of a trusting youtuber like you
Those rules don't really apply for a content creator, especially one whose career is so heavily tied to reviewing a genre that this company championed.
@@tTaseric Yes. My point was that a content creator don't need to rush reviews if those rules are followed by most people. I know the reality works differently. especially new and hot topics generates a lot of views. so there's always pressure to relase a video early
Funny joke. Except for the fact that you're talking like Bethesda Game Studios and Bethesda Softworks are the same thing. One is the publisher, and they can tell Arkane what to do. The other is a studio that made FO76 and they have no say in what Arkane does.
@@Largentina. Bethesda is the publisher in both cases. Out of all the pitches Arkane gave, Redfall is the one Bethesda greelit, instead of another immersive sim which is all Arkane has done in their history. I bet my ass Arkane pitched Dishonored 3 and Prey 2 but were denied. Bethesda also greelit FO76 and ESO, both took years to become good, with one still struggling.
I hope we get the story behind this game at some point, would love to know *why* it exists. It almost feels like it was made despite the best efforts of the devs rather than because of them.
I'm legit intrigued by this game too, not by the game itselft but for the idea behind it. Something like Redfall goes beyond bad management, especially coming from Arkane, something really bad must have happened at the studio😊
Like the game made itself and the developers were fighting tooth and nail to make sure it would never see the light of day, but could only settle with sabotaging it's existence as much as possible before the game flooded the office with neurotoxin or something.
the fact that the rarity system is invalidated by having everything easy to get feels like intentionally trying to tank the possibility of monetising said system.
I can see a possibilities of Redfall being Dishonored-like game but against Vampires who supposed to be more powerful than the player character, each encounter is a game of cat and mouse both with stealth and offense. What we got instead is a Borderlands+ Hunt Down The Freeman×Fallout76.
I like how the breaking point in the video where I realized "oh this game had problems in dev" was when i saw the diorama cutscenes and started thinking of Bayonetta.
I imagine the boatload of skins and stakes you unlock randomly while looting is leftovers from the alleged live service that Redfall was supposed to be. Make skins all ahead of time, shove a chunk into a microtransaction shop at launch, and drip feed the rest over time with FOMO limited time offers and vaulting. Just the live service aspect was scrapped, but the skins weren't tossed from sunk cost.
I remember when in CoD:BOCW there was a mode within zombies that functioned similarly to redfall, except with revolutionary features like an actually good loot table and enemy variety.
You mean Outbreak? Yeah I loved that mode, the randomization of quests, side objectives and the secrets were pretty cool despite Treyarch saying it was basically a prototype of what they’d like to do more of in the future.
I played the shit out of that.. w/ randoms too. All my Xbox friends are randoms I met from that game. I loved that shit. Actually it might be worth going back to that. Cod doesent give us nearly enough time with their games anymore. Kinda sucks. Some experiences are pretty cool.
Rest in Peace Arkane Studios I exaggerate, and I hope they rebound given their heritage and pedigree. This definitely seems like a case of executive meddling before the acquisition, and after Microsoft didn't have the balls to just cancel the game and get Arkane working on something more appropriate. But trust is hard to earn and easy to lose. Arkane just lost my trust. It's an utter shame.
Brands don't make games - people do. And as CW mentioned it himself, the key-personel of Arcane have left that ship quite some time ago (and it's no coincidence it happened shortly after the release of their last great game). Time to move on. There's nothing to get from brand loyalty. Follow the people who made them great instead.
I'm convinced Microsoft imposes a direct to Game Pass co-op game on developers when they're acquired. This is like the 3rd (4th?) time a studio they bought just so happened to be making one before the check clears. Blizzard probably screwed the whole deal by spilling the beans on their game early
Considering they haven't made a good title since Prey back in 2017, I think it's safe to say they are officially dead. Redfall was just their Fallout 76.
This game redeems the movie Morbius, transforming it into a joy to behold. I now see exactly what they were out to achieve thematically and cinematically, and I look forward to "Morbius II (still not Redfall)" with great anticipation.
Providence equity was the previous owner of Bethesda and you can see how they approved games with multiplayer functionality to be more appealing for a sale; with fallout 76, Wolfenstein Youngblood, redfall and even deathloop (with invasion and color coded loot) you can see a pattern of amazing single player devs making multiplayer stuff for no reason. My hope is that this is an unfortunate blip in arkane's career and they can go back to make single player games like they know how to make; I don't have any interest in multiplayer games and most of them I find creatively bankrupt with hollow mechanics and a mentality of treating players like donkeys chasing carrots. I don't have any respect for those kind of games but I recognize the effort required to make them; Bungie have almost a thousand of experienced multiplayer devs making destiny, something way beyond the scope and size of one Arkane.
Another red flag I saw for this game were the creator sponsorships, and how they were just kinda weird in general. The standout example I remember was a sponsor segment for Welcome to Nightvale, (really good podcast btw, highly recommend) which has, as far as I can tell, *no* market overlap with the intended audience for redfall, besides both pieces of media being kinda spooky. It boggles the mind.
wow, thats a name i havent heard in years, i cant believe WTNV is not only still around, but doing major sponsorships (despite the pretty obvious no market overlap between the two lmfao)
As much of a shame as it is to see what's happening to Arkane, it seems like the cycle is continuing. If most im-sims really are made by the same small group of people shuffled between company to company then I suppose that we're in an awkward transitional period
2:10 reminds me of myself and Kerbal Space Program 2's early access launch back in february. I went from hyped and optimistic to jaded and praying it won't be dropped. It also has insane specs and the original has 5x the players of the sequel at the moment, sometimes even 10x
I hate how every game needs to be a looter shooter. It never works well, enemies are bulletspongy and it undermines the weapons themselves due to how many copy pasted clones of the same weapon exist that are slightly better.
Looter shooters can be good, for all the shit they get, Destiny 2 and Borderlands still top the player charts, the issue comes from studios thinking they can just slap a rarity tiers to recolored guns + a mediocre to bad experience and call it a day.
Due to so many people do not play these types of games. Zero sense of balance bulletsponge enemies make zero sense when you can be killed in 2-4 hits. At least in dungeon crawlers or borderlands you can take a lot of hits. That's a tell they're either using cheats to "test" the game or they don't play'em.
Holy shit, I think I understand Redfall. Your 'why' questions about loot, prop houses from DayZ, the insistence on live service, the terrible item ranks, dull repeating side quests and endless grinding in nests? Redfall was supposed to be Bethesda's vampire Escape From Tarkov/Fallout 76. Somewhere along the way, they probably realized a gutted Arkane could not pull such a thing off. So they repurposed all their half-done battle royale looter shooter drop-in arena into a smaller scale Borderlands game. It would explain so much!
I hope you play more games you enjoy since those arey favorite type of videos from you. That being said this video is looking great and I appreciate the quality of it very much.
Funny, as much as I enjoy watching people gush about their new favorite game, I just love it even more when people get unreasonably passionate and angry about a game that could have been good but wasn't. :D
@@Hanfgurkenhasser Oh I'm right there with you. I love seeing the internet and my favorite TH-camrs rip games that massively disappointed me to pieces. I just prefer it when Charle's loves a game more than when he tears them apart. This video was great though.
The timeline in my head goes Arkane started developing redfall. Bethesda or Zenimax decided it needed to be a live service and were then bought by Microsoft. At this point they were asked to scrap the live service stuff leaving a stilted boring looter shooter.
Yeah. From what I have heard Microsoft wanted them to take out the microtransactions and even gave them more time to work on the game. People keep blaming this on Microsoft but I'm not so sure.
I would blame MS for not checking in on what they're doing and being honest about it. How hard is it to go "What are you doing? Are you ready? What is the state of the game?" Just release the game and everybody takes a massive L
I didn't even know this game was by Arkane until this video. And it breaks my heart. I was willing to cut Deathloop a lot of slack. Sure it had plenty of issues, but it also had plenty of really novel ideas (even if they rarely were executed well). I don't mind those sorts of games, because you don't get creative and innovative art without risking failure. But now it's seeming like the start of Arkane's fall, with a lot of the problems it had being writing on the wall. I used to consider Arkane one of my favorite developers. But now I'm worried that'll all be in the past.
This is an example of why content is a swear word and what happens when it is pursued over artistry. May we one day live in a world where artists are cherished, rather than squeezed by corporate suits for all they are worth while the board looks hungrily upon AI to replace all human input...
To be fair, artists aren’t businessman-few of them understand basic economics and marketing. Valuing ‘passion’ over profit typically leaves many artists broke as their ‘art’ frankly doesn’t appeal to the general public. Point being: artists make ‘art’ for themselves and the their peers, not for the free market.
@@Anayoth Yeah that's the sad truth of it, at the end of the day the entire video game industry is basically an industry and the guys in charge - businessmen as you say - are gonna go for the creatively bankrupt but extremely profitable pitches or methods that milk a lot of money even if it's through tricking people into thinking that they have a good product only to get disappointed. Why would they put funding into effort when it doesn't appeal to the absolute bottom-feeding common denominator of the audience who they can milk more money from even if they come to hate the studio afterwards? Hell, people still love Fallout and Elder Scrolls even though Bethesda has becoming increasingly more creatively bankrupt, makes sense the same happened to Arkane.
@@averymicrowave1713 it’s not much of a sad truth rather than it’s just human nature. Art is the most subjective thing possible. Literally all art (unless you’re just a scammer NFT artist or something) is made for the artist and is a representation of them/their experiences - and having anyone else like it or love it enough to give you money is just a pure crapshoot. If I make art, it’s because I want to do it, and if anyone else likes it then that’s cool, but it wasn’t my main objective when creating whatever I am creating. But I will say that I think most artists know this and don’t really expect to make money off of it unless it’s in a commercial setting or a kind of contracted situation.
2 things: 1: i will not wash my cups and you can't force me 2: finally you explained why you were going on with those manifestos at the end, i was actually working hard to increase my artstation's portfolio just to post one by one calling every piece content, but since now i have a reason for your behaviour i will stay my hand
It's crazy that Zelda TOTK is a better Immersive Sim than something created by the original torchbearers (and founders) of the design philosophy. Even if TOTK has the same inflexible story beats and forced trigger volume non-sense from BOTW sometimes (Like not able to sneak into a location using it's own systems without checking off forced story beats) but that's a pedantic purist argument.
There's a lot of games coming out recently that honestly down to a conceptual level are bad. It's mind boggling that a group of people could get together and go "We are going to make a vampire looter shooter." Like who is clamoring for this kind of experience? Has anyone ever shown interest in this game before release?
22:50 "Something went very, very wrong with the design of your core gameplay loop." Sounds less like a gameplay loop and more like a DEATH loop, am I right?
As a programmer, the naïve answer as to why redfall did not reuse dishonored AI is that it's never as simple as copy pasting when writing software, but the full answer is that the two games are on different engines (dishonored is unreal 3 whereas redfall is unreal 4) such that an entire rewrite of the AI system would have been necessary. The difference in how code is written is quite drastic between UE3 to UE4. I suspect the rewrite wasn't done since they didn't have enough time. Matter of fact, redfall is the first Arkane game to fully use Unreal 4, which is a mystery to me considering they have their own inhouse engine called Void. Although, looking at Arkane Austin's past games, they made Prey in the CryEngine, and then using Unreal 4 for the Typhon Hunter multiplayer expansion for Prey, so maybe they just kept using what they used last. Considering this game has been in development since 2017-2018, I'm not sure if it's the developers who ran out of time since they may have still been getting used to UE4 for multiple years, wasting precious development time, or if it was just shitty game design. I suspect a bit of both (but I still never blame the devs).
@ashy the developers only code the game, they don't choose how much time they spend on it. That's the executives who rushed an unfinished product out the door. The design team is responsible for the crappy design choices, the developers are forced to implement them.
@ashy This is just a question of semantics, but the coders are the only ones to be called developers (Charlatan calls them so himself in the video) so I thought we all had agreed to that wordage. While designers are part of the production team, they are distinct from the actual technical implementation that developers do.
I'm currently taking information management courses as part of my MARA degree. And from all the papers I've written about the topic. It seems like there is an utter lack of good management and managers.
It´s one of those games that was shoved into the wrong genre, aka looter shooter (if not accounting for the myriad of bugs and other issues) Especially with modern day weapons. Because everytime modern day weapons are involved, devs seem to be apprehensive of really going nuts with them. I mean in red fall you loot a lot of the gear from the friggin vampires. You´d think that shit would be drenches in some eldritch magic with some real uncanny properties like i dunno, a shotgun firing a swarm of insects instead of buckshot. Or a revolver that shoots goddamn icicles impaling targets. Not just having different stats. It´s frankly... lame.
From experience of software development, failures of this scale are never the result of a single developer: executives ultimately press the ship button and decide the general parameters in big orgs, and arguably that's what's hurting Arkane.
I smell feature creep, mid-sprint changes from the higher ups, and that slow rotation of employees into and out of the project (causing delays for onboarding/offboarding, inconsistent development patterns, and a balance of garbage team members dragging down the competent and focused ones).
"What is the Trust system?" A neat idea, botched beyond all recognition. The idea is that when you're playing with a given player (or maybe a specific character), and you're staying close to one another, you'll build, "trust." This does give you a reason not to just scatter across the map and brute force every objective simultaneously, as the buffs mean you'll (theoretically) perform better if you stick together in a team. What are the buffs? Who knows. Does it work better than the trust system in Resident Evil 5? Probably not. EDIT: NM. I typed up a response when asked... :\ I still have the suspicion it's with specific characters, regardless who's playing them, which is exceptionally weird.
Halo's "Never Forget" was playing in my head for the first two minutes, RIP so many good studios and developers from 2000-2010, the branding may be the same but the heart and soul just aren't there anymore
I'll be honest, I usually hate people complaining about businesses trying to make money, or talking at length about "never turning your art into content", because it almost always comes across like sour grapes, or a disdain for people making money in general. But your advice at the end definitely hits different; it feels like a genuine plea for people to keep their passions passionate, and to not sell their soul for quick cash, from someone who's seen special and meaningful things wither and die a few times too many.
I've been in this game 10 years now and I've watched dreams die on the surface of an analytics page. The Content-ification of creation is something worth speaking out against.
You know. I'm not gonna say a studio isn't allowed to make more than one genre of video game. But I think it's really weird that after like two decades of making games in a single genre to suddenly decide to make a new game in a completely different genre. _Now_ is when you throw off your type casting? Why? And why for _this?_ For this The Division-style modern shooty-shooty gun game of which there's so many already out there. I can't imagine anyone at Arkane wanted this. I wish I knew why it happened.
It's worth noting that Redfall was not developed by Arkane Lyon (who did most of the games in Arkane's library), but Arkane Austin, who so far have only worked on Prey before this. Not really an excuse since Prey was pretty good, but a notable distinction. Particularly since it's quite likely Prey 2 got canned for this.
@@kasra8255 I did. I didn't see a distinction made between Arkane that made dishonored and Arx, and the Arkane that made redfall. Arkane Austin is a separate team with its own people.
@@LlamasIlamas they share some of the higher up staff, but no, the two teams are pretty separate. If you looked at both Wikipedia and the official stuff put out on either studio you'd know that.
Another game that represents the absolute trash state of the current AAA industry... you're video is way more entertaining than the entire game... May the indie save us
If I had a nickel for every time an immersive sim developer released a first person vampire hunter game in a buggy and unfinished state, I would have two nickels. Redfall versus Slayer Shock comparison video when?
@@leorickaldana366 It's an FPS made by a solo dev who made a bunch of other small indie immsims, like the cyberpunk Thief-like Neon Struct and the Lovecraft rogue-lite Eldritch. Slayer Shock was heavily inspired by Buffy the Vampire Slayer in its setting and tone, right down to the missions being split up in "episodes". Unfortunately, because of the woes of solo game dev, it ultimately got pushed out the door unpolished and more proof-of-concept than feature complete title. Updates were dependent on sales, and the sales didn't come.
People need to internalize already that "A Studio" isn't really a thing in the sense everyone is using it. There are brands, and there are people. There is a corporate structure, and there's a design team. Games are made by people, working together in teams, at a particular time and place. If "a studio" made some good games for a time, that's great. It means they had some good people working together at one point, to produce good games. If those people leave, or circumstances surrounding development change, all bets are off. It's the Ship of Theseus. When did Arkane cease to be Arkane? I can't answer that question. But it's not Arkane in the way its longtime fans know it. The world you grew up in is gone. That time is passed. There will come times in the future where other people (or some or even all of the same people) will come together and make good games. But the corporate brand calling itself Arkane today is not the Arkane of yesteryear, and never will be. Priorities of business, the industry, the _economy,_ and we as a culture have changed so radically. The unique combination of circumstances that birthed Arkane's golden age of development have vanished. Simply bearing the brand name of something you loved doesn't make it that something. Any more than a _thing_ wearing your friend's skin makes it your friend.
18:23 It turns out there is a way to give achievements back! Steam achievement manager is a program that allows you to unlock and relock your steam achievements. It’s a really cool program if you use it responsibly :)
The cutscenes are probably in that slideshow style because they know how to do cutscenes like that. It's the same type of cutscene used in the Dishonored endings, but the thing with the Dishonored games is that their endings are presented as if we were reading out of a history book, and the "slides" could have been actual historical photographs or paintings. Furthermore, all of the "slides" in Dishonored 2's slideshow ending had at least 2, but often well over a dozen possible variations based on choices you made and your exact level of chaos. It's not groundbreaking but it was interesting to see how big or small the changes can be.
9:10 I appreciate you getting this video out asap but as consumers, we definitely need to just not be buying things day one without vetting it prior. It's been well over a decade since video game companies have been doing this as a norm, and although some franchises have been improving in this particular regard, it's 100% on the person buying it, especially since there wasn't anything really compelling going for it.
I'll give Arkane the benefit of the doubt. I'm guessing they never wanted to make this game, or make it in this way. I'm guessing Bethesda did some executive meddling to basically have Arkane do something knew would fail. Hoping they can still rebound, since this is clearly not made by Arkane. Bethesda executives clearly made this and just got Arkane to do the programming.
Also the game uses a different engine to the one they used previously. The performance issues and lack of little details on a lot of the objects in game says to me they didn't bring in people who knew the engine, or they didn't give the people they had the time to learn it
There was numerous hint even during interviews that a lot of elements were forced during the development due to the online mandate from Bethesda/Zenimax; let’s also add Microsoft buyout, whatever problems happen during the development (no one also nominate the fact that another studio work on it, Roundhouse), the fact that almost nobody at Arkane have great experience in online and open world, and disaster ensure (while i still find some enjoyment in it)… I see this as a misstep from Arkane, not the new normality from them; i think their next game will be more in their areas.
I'm sure I know why the game keeps giving you weapon skins. They want you to notice getting them, so they can possibly sell you some "extra" ones as DLC, or MTs in the future.
I think a lot of the problems on the bug/ai side might be another case of an otherwise experienced developer thinking that they can get away with hiring fewer/less experienced coders due to the hype around "more streamlined" engines like Unreal or Unity. Short answer is: you can't, but I'm sure whoever's budgeting/scheduling these things thinks they can, and this results in rushed games by inexperienced teams because "Unreal Engine 4 is easier". As to why they couldn't just use Dishonored 1's AI? Unreal 3 and 4/5 are completely different beasts. For a start, Unreal 3 used UnrealScript for its gameplay/ai programming and Unreal 4/5 uses C++ as well as a different overall system for handling AI (Blackboard) that on the surface should allow for better coordination between the code and design teams, but I've rarely seen it used well.
genuinely worried this game might be to Arkane what Battlefield Hardline was to Visceral. an intentional flop spongewring to justify executing the studio that's had their time.
@ashy when have the whims of capitalists ever made sense from an artistic or even materialist perspective? they hire teams to make shows they immediately put in a vault where you cant buy it or stream it because its a good tax writeoff that will lead to them able to show more profit on the big green line they show their shareholders this quarter.
Ngl, that 75gb dummy file bit mad me angry. I recently moved back to the country and my wifi tanks for the day if I download over 10 gb. I dont know how I would have reacted if I bought this game and that happened.
I started getting genuinely worried about Arkane when Deathloop came out. This is just following the same downwards trajectory. I guess that their next game will be arena shooter with predatory microtransactions, and the game following that will be a Unity asset flip with fake trailers made in Unreal, but it will be financed by some sort of shady crowdfunding site, and the "devs" will then abscond with the collected cash. Then we'll learn that right after Death of the Outsider was released, the original Arkane stuff was replaced by doppelgangers from the evil parallel universe.
I still remember when Sunshot, my first exotic, dropped for me in Destiny 2. The exotic drop noise is a permanent dopamine hit, and despite being a Colored Loot Hell game, I still remember using the gun long past when I should have moved on because I was in love with the gunplay of the exploding hand cannon. Hearing the story of that rifle…just…hurts.
The best outcome is if Arkane came out and said "jk guys we made this over a long weekend and wanted to fuck with you all, real game coming out tomorrow"
You can tell that they were trying to originally make a Vampire-oriented version of Prey with some of the elements still present in the game, but then Microsoft decided that Arkane (one of their golden children) needed to make a Live Service game to match up against the Destiny 2s of the world…and here we are because of it. They most likely didn’t have the budget or time to properly implement the NPCs or Storyline for that “Immersive Sim” iteration of Redfall and Microsoft wasn’t going to back down from that mandate. If you swap out the whole “objects as money/supplies” aspect with a Prey-Like Crafting System as well as more quests and lively NPCs giving lore to the town, it instantly becomes an Arkane game As is though, I couldn’t stand more than 2 hours of the game before I tapped out and felt embarrassed for downloading it
Well this game answers the philosophical question. If you replace every part and crew member of a ship one by one, is it still the same ship? The answer is definitively no. Quality has changed, efficiency and effectiveness has changed, materials have changed. The only thing that remains is the name. The Arkane we knew is gone, and we're left with whatever is capable of producing Redfall.
In mathematics, there is a principle called the Pareto principle. It is applicable to many fields, but in project management it can be said that 20 percent of employees do 80 percent of the work. If we were to apply this to Arcane's leadership, we could say that the former leader and those that followed him out were likely that 20 percent that performed 80 percent of the work on past titles.
When I saw the kind of game Deathloop was, I started to be worried that we wouldn't see another great immersive sim from Arkane. Then this comes out and man does it feel bad to be right.
I've got this weird feeling that something has been off with Bethesda for a while now. Even the very popular shadow dropped Hi-fi rush felt off. I can't quite put my finger on why though.
It was so sad to see the people who made Dishonored and Prey (hell I even found Deathloop to have fun gameplay) churn out something like this. It’s just derivative slop. Even when they revealed it, I thought it was supposed to be a left 4 dead type game, which I thought was a weird turn for this studio. The red flags were kinda there, because the game was practically radio silent since its reveal.
I felt the whole righteous diatribe at the beginning of part 4 deep in my soul, as someone who cares a lot about video games, artistic works in general, and having seen this same sort of dulling of edges as the next big title gets milled out. Sometimes it feels like the people who see it happening or care are a really tiny minority. Glad to see someone talk about it at least. Also deeply appreciate the cat content. Glad the algorithm led me this way, I have subscribed and now I shall devour your entire channel.
@@anarche4900 it's not even the same engine. Prey was CryEngine, this is unreal. Which probably explains the performance issues, using an engine they weren't familiar with and not being given the time/resources to learn how to use efficiently.
31:59 i dont think i can ever have faith in the studio after seeing that lathe, but i think its a good metaphor for the game it self, the dam thing is scaled incorrectly, the centers should be at a comfortable working height, lathes are not some oddly shaped things, in the usa we have laws about work surface distances and all that kind of stuff and its pretty fitting that arcane would fuck that up... just because i feel like it lets take a moment and assume that's how that lathe really exist in that world, the most common Hight for a lathes centers from ground is just about 3ft from the floor, lets be GENOROUSE and say that dude is a ABSLOUTE mantle and hes only 5ft 2, those centers about 5ft 3 off the ground, thats a FLAGRENT osha violation. as such it requires a platform in front of it, next lets look at the estop OOPS looks like the posable estop show on the machine (the 3 button cluster) is at least 6ft off the ground, that's another Osha volition seeing as estops cant be more then 5 1/2 feet off the ground!!! or even worse, the machine it self lacks a estop which oh boy you never want to be charged with that one. i guess the point here is, is there any reason to get invested in the world if thers evidence of the world is not following its own laws and rules? sure magic is wonky but most games have something that resembles logic when it comes to industry props i mean its obvious that the steel industry is mature in that world.
70$. Remember when corporate elites from AAA studios claimed the increase in price is because the scope of AAA games increased? Yeah, I don't think any of that money goes to quality.
Charlatan, once again, your video was really good. It's sad to witness such a rapid decline of a studio that was once exceptional. I truly enjoy your videos, and I love to see the immersive sim genre receive the attention it rightfully deserves. I do have one point of critique to offer. I believe it would greatly enhance your videos and arguments if you could showcase one or two examples when discussing wooden dialogue or generic music. This way, we can hear it for ourselves and better understand your point. I don't think I heard one line of dialogue in the whole video, to the point where I will definitely have to look for another video just to hear it. Which is a compliment in a sense, you convinced me of your case even without proof. The same goes for the questions montage; it takes me longer to grasp what is being shown on the screen compared to the time it takes you to explain it. I often struggle to contextualize what you're trying to convey when it occurs simultaneously and then immediately jumps to the next point. In a way, allow the game itself to speak more for itself, I am sure it would help your case. Cant wait for your next video!!!!😁
The fact that you had any real hope for Redfall is quite endearing. Right from the get-go, when the Devs/Project Leads were talking about and showing their work-in-progress, I knew the game was gonna flop. How hard? Not as hard as it actually did. Nothing against the artistic talent there, far from it because that is the best part of the game, but everything else about it is just utter trash and painfully basic/boring. I'm usually pretty hard on games because I want them to succeed. Tough love and all that. However... in Redfall's case when it not only looks but feels like we were given only a shell of something? Yeah no, it shouldn't have come out at all. Rip that fucker apart and rebuild it with some semblance of love and passion. Or just toss it in the trash because it's clear the devs had no passion working on it. When that happens, you know something is wrong with the team.
just so everyone knows, this is not the same arkane. the brains behind all the titles you love dearly has left even before deathloop i think. raphael colantonioit the guys name and he made his own company and their first game was weird west. obviously lower budget but there you can see the sort of spark these older arcane games had continue. dont get your hopes up for arkane anymore, they are not the same thing that you used to love.
I was worried about this game ever since the reveal of it when I saw the Fortnite ripoff character design. Then they said it was a co op looter shooter and I pretty much gave up all hope after that.
With Jacob the cloak helps a lot since if you pop it and just go away the vampires stop chasing you at once. Alternatively you can also pop cloak and kill 2 or 3 vampires using the advantage of surprise attack that the cloak gives you. Heartstopper also helps somewhat if you end up having cloak on cooldown. I am kinda glad that the game doesnt punish you if you die in the nest since at least on the hardest difficulty trying to solo so many vampires at once is pretty hard since I think those nests werent really designed for the solo players. Though after 25 hours of playing this game I am not sure if i actually want to finish it since it is all so average or below average when it comes to gameplay. At least i played this on gamepass.
I kept going:ok I feel reviewers are over doing it on what is a clear “turn off your brain game.” This footage, the way charlatan described it, and the constant mental breakdowns finally convinced me. Holy shit, his is why I only play some game pass games for 30 minutes.
I am terribly sorry but for odd reasons I immediately knows it was going to be bad by day zero , strangely enough hunter the reckoning , which very old pd2 game, have simply outmatch all vampire hunters game even monsters hunters.
Redfall is supposed to take place in Massachusetts, but it doesn't look or feel like Massachusetts. Game devs have a hard time recreating Massachusetts.
@@CharlatanWonder Makes sense, thanks for the answer. Just found your channel, gonna binge watch it tomorrow. Thank you for your work and sorry for the pain of having to play through Redfall.
Experience has taught me the biggest cause for a game coming out with this many issues ALWAYS comes down to mismanagement. I'm sure the dev team wanted Redfall to be something truly great, you can tell there's a foundation for something great, but the higher ups just janked the game out of their hands and pushed it out unfinished just to meet publisher and investor deadlines, it has happened before, it happened to Cyberpunk, it happened to Overkill's The Walking Dead, it happened to Sonic 06. I feel playing the blame game, like you said, is unproductive and also rather pointless, all it's caused is for people who worked on the game to get harassed and threatened just because angry gamers need someone to unload their rage on, all we can really do is accept this didn't work out and hope whatever is worked on next actually gets to see some actual love instead of the boardroom meeting garbage this turned out to be. Thanks for taking one for the team Char, keep on being awesome!
![The DISASTEROUS Reboot of a Classic Horror Series (that isn't a reboot) [Alone in the Dark 2008]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Jc2-IeRKg7I/mqdefault.jpg)
A fun game you can play while watching this video is guessing how many mental breakdowns I had while recording this.
I'm getting NAN on my calculations 😮
A truly uncountable amount.
A mental breakdown per minute, my man you sound like you want to stranggle the whole board of executives of Arkane and Bethesda XD
This just makes me feel bad for you, man.
I just played Borderlands while watching
This entre video
My animation professor told us that "it's fun with friends" is not a selling point for a game because even pissing on an electric fence is fun with your friends
Jim Sterling said the same thing about playing with a dog turd a few years back. And both of them were right.
THIS! You can have fun with you friends with every kind of shitty game, toy, random object or situation.
yeah, at this point many people had said that even kicking a turd can be fun with friends.
@@michimatsch5862 I remember Total Biscut saying something to the same effect about 10 - 15 years ago.
EXACTLY!!! literal fucking open heart surgery would be more fun if you had your buddies around, to say that a game is 'more fun to play with friends' is like saying
"Well, this boiling oil that im pouring onto my genitals sure does hurt, but at least i know all of my friends are pouring hot oil onto their genitals too!"
The fact that the plot of this game is so simplistic, yet Harvey Smith had the audacity to tell in an interview that the vampires are supposedly a metaphor for the 1% absolutely sends me XD
Sounds more like a disingenuous cope to me
Redfall is a serious critique of capitalism 🤓
I mean, Vampires being a metaphor for capitalists is an old hat, even Marx used it. Even if it was there that wouldn't be anything to brag about or advertise with.
@@loubloom1941 The sad part is that this IS as serious as these people can physically and mentally get.
@@michimatsch5862 yeah, and zombies being a metaphor for "unenlightened masses". It usually requires some skill in executing the idea, without proper execution zombies are just zombies and vampires are just vampires.
Redfall reeked of design by committee and executive mandates from the very start. It must have been an absolute death march working on this game and I feel awful for the devs.
I think the timeline lined up with zenimax's other online, live service projects. It's just the latest fallout 76 iteration by zenimax.
I don't. They could've left like the many devs that left 343 during halo infinite's production
@@danialyousaf6456 It's never that easy. In a job where you're hired based on projects and prior accomplishments, you don't want to write "6 years at Arcane" but "worked on Prey and Dishonored 2". Just riding Redfall out pads resumes (because nobody actually checks if the projects you worked on were any good) and puts them at the start of a new hiring season, where getting a position is easiest.
@@danialyousaf6456 Most people have bills to pay and can't just quit jobs on a whim because they don't like what they're working on. Especially not in an industry as structurally fucked up as game development.
@@danialyousaf6456 You first.
WHAT DO YOU MEAN THE LAKERS MADE IT PAST ROUND 1?!?!?! DON'T PLAY WITH MY FEELINGS LIKE THIS!
We're comin home.
there in the conference finals
We sent those GS Bums to Cancun early!
the lakers made a whole bunch of moves this year and just beat the defending champs in 6 games
Dude, they have LEBRON JAMES now. Love your vids and I don’t come here for the sports content, but man oh man, you picked a bad time to talk about the Lakers being irrelevant my friend.
It's absolutely clear that Zenimax wanted to make a generic live service game, bailed halfway through when every generic live service game started to fail and we were left with that.
Hard to say, we need to know more. Look at Bioware with Anthem, that's the game they wanted to make. No one forced them to.
@@EarthboundX Bioware was always overrated anyway
it's most probably the case. it happened with Fallout 76 too. Zenimax wanted more online focused games. even deathloop had a tacked on multiplayer mode
@@ehrtdaz7186 Gonna have to massively disagree with you there.
@@ehrtdaz7186 Gonna have to massively agree with you there.
The enemy AI not being able to handle multiple people, there being no matchmaking system, and the enemies not scaling to the amount of players all seem to hint that this game being co-op was decided relatively late into development. That's pure speculation of course, but I highly doubt that co-op was mentioned anywhere on the initial design doc. It would also explain why the loot system is so barebones and weird, along with the four characters feeling like one character split into four skill-tree wise.
Redfall very well could've been a single-player game with one protagonist for the majority of its development, only for the game to be retrofitted into a multi-player looter shooter. If that is the case, a ton of stuff starts to make a ton of sense, down to the weird still-frame cutscenes, that could've been because they needed to re-do the cutscenes they already made to fit the different possible protagonists and that was the easiest way to do it. Again, this could all be totally off base, but it really seems like that is the case.
The GameDevCon breakdown of this in a few years will be good watching.
Even indie games can pull off match making
I wonder if Ghostwire Tokyo didn't do as hot as expected, so they were forced to make this abomination instead.
I presume, they wanted to make something like Dishonored, Prey/Typhoon, etc. but were forced by higher ups to change it to make a looter shooter like Borderlands
just my assumptions
it really feels like that, just by watching this video
Being a multiplayer hero shooter was the main focus of the game's announcement at the tail end of the publisher live service craze, so it certainly seems like it was meant to be co-op (perhaps by dictate of Zenimax/Bethesda) but then they got spooked by the mass failure and consumer revolt against live service clones and tried to rebuild it into a single player Arkane game. In any case they did not have the time, focus or vision to make any version of this game good.
It's very possible that this game bounced back and forth between single player focused and multiplayer focused but neither of those games got made.
Worst thing is: there is a good concept in there. Liberating an island from vampires and finding a way to end an eclipse sounds great. A small, but detailed map. Vampires that act like nightmares from prey, so you can use stealth if you want to avoid being detected by them, or you can go head on and get an interesting miniboss fight with loot. Guns that are not differently coloured slop, but a unique additions to your arsenal. Characters with different abilities that compliment eachother. A plot that does actually exist. The game is in here, if only someone actually wanted to make it. I can feel the idea being choked(sorry, strangled) by corporate and THAT is the saddest thing in my opinion. Not what the game is, but what it could have been.
Yeah, slap some small choices on about helping survivors, leaving (mind-controlled) cultists alife despite themselves, etc. and you got a decent Arkane game.
If only redfall was prey
And choice to choose vampire side and vamps skiils😊
@@MD-yd8lh omg get vampire abilities like neuromods?? God we need this as a game
If it was basically co-op Deathloop with interesting character classes it would have been serviceable at least
"Why is the fuel tanker the only vehicle that doesn't explode?"
This sort of thing would be perfect in a parody game.
This does not look like the kind of game a historic development studio survives making intact. This looks like a SimCity 5 or a Dead Space 3 or an Epic Mickey 2 style situation that will lead to a massive internal shakeup if not dissolution of the studio. I hope I'm hyperbolic here, but I worry like hell this will be the case.
They lost one of their creative leads already years ago. He moved to make his own studio who made Weird West.
I don't. If them not shaking up means they'll keep making more shit like this then no love lost.
Oh yea Arcane is dead 70% of the team that made Prey left half way through development because they had such little faith in the project. Zenimax the parent company of Bathesda and Arcane where greedy and threw there teams under the bus to line there pockets
Arkane Austin is dead
I don't know. There are some rules one should follow:
- Don't preoder
-don't buy on release date
- wait for reviews
So if I wanted to buy redmist, I would have waited anyways of a trusting youtuber like you
Those rules don't really apply for a content creator, especially one whose career is so heavily tied to reviewing a genre that this company championed.
@@tTaseric Yes.
My point was that a content creator don't need to rush reviews if those rules are followed by most people.
I know the reality works differently. especially new and hot topics generates a lot of views. so there's always pressure to relase a video early
My theory is that Bethesda felt lonely and decided to incentivize Arkane to do their own Fallout 76.
Funny joke. Except for the fact that you're talking like Bethesda Game Studios and Bethesda Softworks are the same thing. One is the publisher, and they can tell Arkane what to do. The other is a studio that made FO76 and they have no say in what Arkane does.
@@Largentina. Bethesda is the publisher in both cases. Out of all the pitches Arkane gave, Redfall is the one Bethesda greelit, instead of another immersive sim which is all Arkane has done in their history. I bet my ass Arkane pitched Dishonored 3 and Prey 2 but were denied. Bethesda also greelit FO76 and ESO, both took years to become good, with one still struggling.
You forgot Cyberjunk.
@@matheusorth5365 Fallout 76 is still garbage and always will be
@@matheusorth5365 "both took years to be good" I'm sorry, are we seeing the same FO76 or did you Mandela Effect yourself into this timeline?
I hope we get the story behind this game at some point, would love to know *why* it exists. It almost feels like it was made despite the best efforts of the devs rather than because of them.
I'm legit intrigued by this game too, not by the game itselft but for the idea behind it. Something like Redfall goes beyond bad management, especially coming from Arkane, something really bad must have happened at the studio😊
Like the game made itself and the developers were fighting tooth and nail to make sure it would never see the light of day, but could only settle with sabotaging it's existence as much as possible before the game flooded the office with neurotoxin or something.
Yeah, I'm curious to see what people like Wicked Wiz could dig up eventually when they search for how this mess came to be.
the fact that the rarity system is invalidated by having everything easy to get feels like intentionally trying to tank the possibility of monetising said system.
@@MeatyZeeg This feels more like a What Happened? or Death Of A Game type thing.
Civvie said it best when he said that all talented studios will eventually be sent to the mines to make derivative schlock.
Unless they die early enough (like e.g. Troika). Can't force them to the mines when they're already disbanded!
I can see a possibilities of Redfall being Dishonored-like game but against Vampires who supposed to be more powerful than the player character, each encounter is a game of cat and mouse both with stealth and offense. What we got instead is a Borderlands+ Hunt Down The Freeman×Fallout76.
"Cat and Mouse"
Hot damn
I like how the breaking point in the video where I realized "oh this game had problems in dev" was when i saw the diorama cutscenes and started thinking of Bayonetta.
I imagine the boatload of skins and stakes you unlock randomly while looting is leftovers from the alleged live service that Redfall was supposed to be. Make skins all ahead of time, shove a chunk into a microtransaction shop at launch, and drip feed the rest over time with FOMO limited time offers and vaulting. Just the live service aspect was scrapped, but the skins weren't tossed from sunk cost.
I remember when in CoD:BOCW there was a mode within zombies that functioned similarly to redfall, except with revolutionary features like an actually good loot table and enemy variety.
You mean Outbreak? Yeah I loved that mode, the randomization of quests, side objectives and the secrets were pretty cool despite Treyarch saying it was basically a prototype of what they’d like to do more of in the future.
Outbreak was awesome
I played the shit out of that.. w/ randoms too. All my Xbox friends are randoms I met from that game. I loved that shit.
Actually it might be worth going back to that. Cod doesent give us nearly enough time with their games anymore. Kinda sucks. Some experiences are pretty cool.
@@juanmccoy3066 BOCW was better overall than MW2019 and probably the best COD since BO3.
Rest in Peace Arkane Studios
I exaggerate, and I hope they rebound given their heritage and pedigree. This definitely seems like a case of executive meddling before the acquisition, and after Microsoft didn't have the balls to just cancel the game and get Arkane working on something more appropriate. But trust is hard to earn and easy to lose. Arkane just lost my trust. It's an utter shame.
remember that redfall was made by arkane Austin, not the real arkane
@@jvne_ yeah but Arkane Austin made Prey. They're capable of greatness. Or they were...
Brands don't make games - people do. And as CW mentioned it himself, the key-personel of Arcane have left that ship quite some time ago (and it's no coincidence it happened shortly after the release of their last great game). Time to move on. There's nothing to get from brand loyalty. Follow the people who made them great instead.
I'm convinced Microsoft imposes a direct to Game Pass co-op game on developers when they're acquired. This is like the 3rd (4th?) time a studio they bought just so happened to be making one before the check clears. Blizzard probably screwed the whole deal by spilling the beans on their game early
Considering they haven't made a good title since Prey back in 2017, I think it's safe to say they are officially dead. Redfall was just their Fallout 76.
This game redeems the movie Morbius, transforming it into a joy to behold. I now see exactly what they were out to achieve thematically and cinematically, and I look forward to "Morbius II (still not Redfall)" with great anticipation.
Arkane seem to have gone to the same fate as Bioware :(
Providence equity was the previous owner of Bethesda and you can see how they approved games with multiplayer functionality to be more appealing for a sale; with fallout 76, Wolfenstein Youngblood, redfall and even deathloop (with invasion and color coded loot) you can see a pattern of amazing single player devs making multiplayer stuff for no reason.
My hope is that this is an unfortunate blip in arkane's career and they can go back to make single player games like they know how to make; I don't have any interest in multiplayer games and most of them I find creatively bankrupt with hollow mechanics and a mentality of treating players like donkeys chasing carrots. I don't have any respect for those kind of games but I recognize the effort required to make them; Bungie have almost a thousand of experienced multiplayer devs making destiny, something way beyond the scope and size of one Arkane.
more moonfall
Another red flag I saw for this game were the creator sponsorships, and how they were just kinda weird in general.
The standout example I remember was a sponsor segment for Welcome to Nightvale, (really good podcast btw, highly recommend) which has, as far as I can tell, *no* market overlap with the intended audience for redfall, besides both pieces of media being kinda spooky. It boggles the mind.
wow, thats a name i havent heard in years, i cant believe WTNV is not only still around, but doing major sponsorships (despite the pretty obvious no market overlap between the two lmfao)
As much of a shame as it is to see what's happening to Arkane, it seems like the cycle is continuing. If most im-sims really are made by the same small group of people shuffled between company to company then I suppose that we're in an awkward transitional period
There are still good Im Sims being made though. That Ctrl alt game on steam where you possess electronics is pretty decent.
@@ThatGuy-ky2yf whats the game called?
@@TheCapitalWanderer Ctrl alt ego
2:10 reminds me of myself and Kerbal Space Program 2's early access launch back in february. I went from hyped and optimistic to jaded and praying it won't be dropped.
It also has insane specs and the original has 5x the players of the sequel at the moment, sometimes even 10x
I hate how every game needs to be a looter shooter. It never works well, enemies are bulletspongy and it undermines the weapons themselves due to how many copy pasted clones of the same weapon exist that are slightly better.
@Linuck still coasting on how good Borderlands 1 was I think lmao
@Linuck Because people like them. Its nothing wrong imo. There is a way to make it less trash but this didn't try at all
Looter shooters can be good, for all the shit they get, Destiny 2 and Borderlands still top the player charts, the issue comes from studios thinking they can just slap a rarity tiers to recolored guns + a mediocre to bad experience and call it a day.
Due to so many people do not play these types of games. Zero sense of balance bulletsponge enemies make zero sense when you can be killed in 2-4 hits. At least in dungeon crawlers or borderlands you can take a lot of hits. That's a tell they're either using cheats to "test" the game or they don't play'em.
@Linuck friends
Redfall is so good.
A good reminder to re-download and play Borderlands 2.
Redfall has Borderlands 3 syndrome, gives you to much legendaries.
At least bl3 is fun to play@@guidedexplosiveprojectileg9943
Holy shit, I think I understand Redfall. Your 'why' questions about loot, prop houses from DayZ, the insistence on live service, the terrible item ranks, dull repeating side quests and endless grinding in nests?
Redfall was supposed to be Bethesda's vampire Escape From Tarkov/Fallout 76.
Somewhere along the way, they probably realized a gutted Arkane could not pull such a thing off. So they repurposed all their half-done battle royale looter shooter drop-in arena into a smaller scale Borderlands game. It would explain so much!
I hope you play more games you enjoy since those arey favorite type of videos from you. That being said this video is looking great and I appreciate the quality of it very much.
Funny, as much as I enjoy watching people gush about their new favorite game, I just love it even more when people get unreasonably passionate and angry about a game that could have been good but wasn't. :D
@@Hanfgurkenhasser Oh I'm right there with you. I love seeing the internet and my favorite TH-camrs rip games that massively disappointed me to pieces. I just prefer it when Charle's loves a game more than when he tears them apart. This video was great though.
The timeline in my head goes Arkane started developing redfall. Bethesda or Zenimax decided it needed to be a live service and were then bought by Microsoft. At this point they were asked to scrap the live service stuff leaving a stilted boring looter shooter.
Yeah. From what I have heard Microsoft wanted them to take out the microtransactions and even gave them more time to work on the game.
People keep blaming this on Microsoft but I'm not so sure.
@@Gatorade69 It not MS's fault this time. It was either Arkane corporate or ZeniMax.
I would blame MS for not checking in on what they're doing and being honest about it. How hard is it to go "What are you doing? Are you ready? What is the state of the game?" Just release the game and everybody takes a massive L
I didn't even know this game was by Arkane until this video. And it breaks my heart. I was willing to cut Deathloop a lot of slack. Sure it had plenty of issues, but it also had plenty of really novel ideas (even if they rarely were executed well). I don't mind those sorts of games, because you don't get creative and innovative art without risking failure. But now it's seeming like the start of Arkane's fall, with a lot of the problems it had being writing on the wall. I used to consider Arkane one of my favorite developers. But now I'm worried that'll all be in the past.
It is in the past. Most of the devs that made Dishonored and Prey have left.
I was waiting for this. You felt it too huh? The death of Arkane.. Hopefully the Immersive Sim genre can have someone champion it
I hope they keep working on shadow of a doubt because that's one of the most complicated and interesting immersive sims I've ever seen
@@loki-koki_857 Gloomwood is great, but I feel like it was released too early.
@@goslu595 it’s not fully released? It’s still in early access and development
@Iheartblock37 That's what I meant. It shouldn't have been released into early access that early.
Aparently development has started on a new Deus Ex game, might be our last hope...(At least on the AAA market)
Left 4 Dead 1+2 had an in-built trust system.
It's called teamwork.
Love how the view-model for the weapons blot out so much of the screen, all the time, and with such artificial detail :)
This is an example of why content is a swear word and what happens when it is pursued over artistry. May we one day live in a world where artists are cherished, rather than squeezed by corporate suits for all they are worth while the board looks hungrily upon AI to replace all human input...
To be fair, artists aren’t businessman-few of them understand basic economics and marketing.
Valuing ‘passion’ over profit typically leaves many artists broke as their ‘art’ frankly doesn’t appeal to the general public.
Point being: artists make ‘art’ for themselves and the their peers, not for the free market.
@@Anayoth Yeah that's the sad truth of it, at the end of the day the entire video game industry is basically an industry and the guys in charge - businessmen as you say - are gonna go for the creatively bankrupt but extremely profitable pitches or methods that milk a lot of money even if it's through tricking people into thinking that they have a good product only to get disappointed. Why would they put funding into effort when it doesn't appeal to the absolute bottom-feeding common denominator of the audience who they can milk more money from even if they come to hate the studio afterwards?
Hell, people still love Fallout and Elder Scrolls even though Bethesda has becoming increasingly more creatively bankrupt, makes sense the same happened to Arkane.
@@averymicrowave1713 it’s not much of a sad truth rather than it’s just human nature. Art is the most subjective thing possible. Literally all art (unless you’re just a scammer NFT artist or something) is made for the artist and is a representation of them/their experiences - and having anyone else like it or love it enough to give you money is just a pure crapshoot. If I make art, it’s because I want to do it, and if anyone else likes it then that’s cool, but it wasn’t my main objective when creating whatever I am creating. But I will say that I think most artists know this and don’t really expect to make money off of it unless it’s in a commercial setting or a kind of contracted situation.
2 things:
1: i will not wash my cups and you can't force me
2: finally you explained why you were going on with those manifestos at the end, i was actually working hard to increase my artstation's portfolio just to post one by one calling every piece content, but since now i have a reason for your behaviour i will stay my hand
It's crazy that Zelda TOTK is a better Immersive Sim than something created by the original torchbearers (and founders) of the design philosophy. Even if TOTK has the same inflexible story beats and forced trigger volume non-sense from BOTW sometimes (Like not able to sneak into a location using it's own systems without checking off forced story beats) but that's a pedantic purist argument.
There's a lot of games coming out recently that honestly down to a conceptual level are bad. It's mind boggling that a group of people could get together and go "We are going to make a vampire looter shooter." Like who is clamoring for this kind of experience? Has anyone ever shown interest in this game before release?
22:50 "Something went very, very wrong with the design of your core gameplay loop."
Sounds less like a gameplay loop and more like a DEATH loop, am I right?
The drop rate rant should be rereleased as its own video, verbatim, but with Borderlands 3 footage, it will only be SLIGHTLY off.
As a programmer, the naïve answer as to why redfall did not reuse dishonored AI is that it's never as simple as copy pasting when writing software, but the full answer is that the two games are on different engines (dishonored is unreal 3 whereas redfall is unreal 4) such that an entire rewrite of the AI system would have been necessary. The difference in how code is written is quite drastic between UE3 to UE4. I suspect the rewrite wasn't done since they didn't have enough time.
Matter of fact, redfall is the first Arkane game to fully use Unreal 4, which is a mystery to me considering they have their own inhouse engine called Void. Although, looking at Arkane Austin's past games, they made Prey in the CryEngine, and then using Unreal 4 for the Typhon Hunter multiplayer expansion for Prey, so maybe they just kept using what they used last. Considering this game has been in development since 2017-2018, I'm not sure if it's the developers who ran out of time since they may have still been getting used to UE4 for multiple years, wasting precious development time, or if it was just shitty game design. I suspect a bit of both (but I still never blame the devs).
@ashy the developers only code the game, they don't choose how much time they spend on it. That's the executives who rushed an unfinished product out the door. The design team is responsible for the crappy design choices, the developers are forced to implement them.
@ashy This is just a question of semantics, but the coders are the only ones to be called developers (Charlatan calls them so himself in the video) so I thought we all had agreed to that wordage. While designers are part of the production team, they are distinct from the actual technical implementation that developers do.
@ashy We just have a disagreement on some wording, how does that invalidate my entire professional experience as a software developer?
I'm currently taking information management courses as part of my MARA degree. And from all the papers I've written about the topic. It seems like there is an utter lack of good management and managers.
"I wonder how the venture bros movie is coming along." Oh hello old wounds, nice to see you again
It´s one of those games that was shoved into the wrong genre, aka looter shooter (if not accounting for the myriad of bugs and other issues)
Especially with modern day weapons. Because everytime modern day weapons are involved, devs seem to be apprehensive of really going nuts with them. I mean in red fall you loot a lot of the gear from the friggin vampires. You´d think that shit would be drenches in some eldritch magic with some real uncanny properties like i dunno, a shotgun firing a swarm of insects instead of buckshot. Or a revolver that shoots goddamn icicles impaling targets. Not just having different stats. It´s frankly... lame.
From experience of software development, failures of this scale are never the result of a single developer: executives ultimately press the ship button and decide the general parameters in big orgs, and arguably that's what's hurting Arkane.
I smell feature creep, mid-sprint changes from the higher ups, and that slow rotation of employees into and out of the project (causing delays for onboarding/offboarding, inconsistent development patterns, and a balance of garbage team members dragging down the competent and focused ones).
"What is the Trust system?" A neat idea, botched beyond all recognition. The idea is that when you're playing with a given player (or maybe a specific character), and you're staying close to one another, you'll build, "trust." This does give you a reason not to just scatter across the map and brute force every objective simultaneously, as the buffs mean you'll (theoretically) perform better if you stick together in a team.
What are the buffs? Who knows.
Does it work better than the trust system in Resident Evil 5? Probably not.
EDIT: NM. I typed up a response when asked... :\ I still have the suspicion it's with specific characters, regardless who's playing them, which is exceptionally weird.
Halo's "Never Forget" was playing in my head for the first two minutes, RIP so many good studios and developers from 2000-2010, the branding may be the same but the heart and soul just aren't there anymore
I'll be honest, I usually hate people complaining about businesses trying to make money, or talking at length about "never turning your art into content", because it almost always comes across like sour grapes, or a disdain for people making money in general. But your advice at the end definitely hits different; it feels like a genuine plea for people to keep their passions passionate, and to not sell their soul for quick cash, from someone who's seen special and meaningful things wither and die a few times too many.
I've been in this game 10 years now and I've watched dreams die on the surface of an analytics page. The Content-ification of creation is something worth speaking out against.
@@CharlatanWonderhello i would really like to know what game it was at 0:43
@@amerika3171 Arx Fatalis iirc
You know. I'm not gonna say a studio isn't allowed to make more than one genre of video game. But I think it's really weird that after like two decades of making games in a single genre to suddenly decide to make a new game in a completely different genre. _Now_ is when you throw off your type casting? Why? And why for _this?_ For this The Division-style modern shooty-shooty gun game of which there's so many already out there. I can't imagine anyone at Arkane wanted this. I wish I knew why it happened.
It's worth noting that Redfall was not developed by Arkane Lyon (who did most of the games in Arkane's library), but Arkane Austin, who so far have only worked on Prey before this. Not really an excuse since Prey was pretty good, but a notable distinction. Particularly since it's quite likely Prey 2 got canned for this.
>Did not watch the whole video before commenting.
@@kasra8255 I did. I didn't see a distinction made between Arkane that made dishonored and Arx, and the Arkane that made redfall. Arkane Austin is a separate team with its own people.
They both worked on dishonored 1 & 2. Quick Wikipedia would help
@@LlamasIlamas they share some of the higher up staff, but no, the two teams are pretty separate. If you looked at both Wikipedia and the official stuff put out on either studio you'd know that.
Prey was a masterpiece! One of the best Arcane titles!
This is $70, Hotline Miami is $10
welp, Arkane Austin is now officially dead as of today as I am writing this comment.. took surprisingly long tho..
Another game that represents the absolute trash state of the current AAA industry... you're video is way more entertaining than the entire game... May the indie save us
If I had a nickel for every time an immersive sim developer released a first person vampire hunter game in a buggy and unfinished state, I would have two nickels.
Redfall versus Slayer Shock comparison video when?
What the hell is Slayer Shock? When was it made?
@@leorickaldana366 It's an FPS made by a solo dev who made a bunch of other small indie immsims, like the cyberpunk Thief-like Neon Struct and the Lovecraft rogue-lite Eldritch. Slayer Shock was heavily inspired by Buffy the Vampire Slayer in its setting and tone, right down to the missions being split up in "episodes".
Unfortunately, because of the woes of solo game dev, it ultimately got pushed out the door unpolished and more proof-of-concept than feature complete title. Updates were dependent on sales, and the sales didn't come.
The only time it WORKED was with Troika and VTMB is still the best vampire game
People need to internalize already that "A Studio" isn't really a thing in the sense everyone is using it. There are brands, and there are people. There is a corporate structure, and there's a design team. Games are made by people, working together in teams, at a particular time and place. If "a studio" made some good games for a time, that's great. It means they had some good people working together at one point, to produce good games. If those people leave, or circumstances surrounding development change, all bets are off.
It's the Ship of Theseus. When did Arkane cease to be Arkane? I can't answer that question. But it's not Arkane in the way its longtime fans know it.
The world you grew up in is gone. That time is passed. There will come times in the future where other people (or some or even all of the same people) will come together and make good games. But the corporate brand calling itself Arkane today is not the Arkane of yesteryear, and never will be. Priorities of business, the industry, the _economy,_ and we as a culture have changed so radically. The unique combination of circumstances that birthed Arkane's golden age of development have vanished.
Simply bearing the brand name of something you loved doesn't make it that something. Any more than a _thing_ wearing your friend's skin makes it your friend.
18:23 It turns out there is a way to give achievements back! Steam achievement manager is a program that allows you to unlock and relock your steam achievements. It’s a really cool program if you use it responsibly :)
The cutscenes are probably in that slideshow style because they know how to do cutscenes like that. It's the same type of cutscene used in the Dishonored endings, but the thing with the Dishonored games is that their endings are presented as if we were reading out of a history book, and the "slides" could have been actual historical photographs or paintings.
Furthermore, all of the "slides" in Dishonored 2's slideshow ending had at least 2, but often well over a dozen possible variations based on choices you made and your exact level of chaos. It's not groundbreaking but it was interesting to see how big or small the changes can be.
9:10 I appreciate you getting this video out asap but as consumers, we definitely need to just not be buying things day one without vetting it prior. It's been well over a decade since video game companies have been doing this as a norm, and although some franchises have been improving in this particular regard, it's 100% on the person buying it, especially since there wasn't anything really compelling going for it.
I'll give Arkane the benefit of the doubt.
I'm guessing they never wanted to make this game, or make it in this way. I'm guessing Bethesda did some executive meddling to basically have Arkane do something knew would fail.
Hoping they can still rebound, since this is clearly not made by Arkane. Bethesda executives clearly made this and just got Arkane to do the programming.
Or maybe it's that the studio has gone through a lot of changes and key talent has left. If you want answers look through the personal records.
Also the game uses a different engine to the one they used previously. The performance issues and lack of little details on a lot of the objects in game says to me they didn't bring in people who knew the engine, or they didn't give the people they had the time to learn it
There was numerous hint even during interviews that a lot of elements were forced during the development due to the online mandate from Bethesda/Zenimax; let’s also add Microsoft buyout, whatever problems happen during the development (no one also nominate the fact that another studio work on it, Roundhouse), the fact that almost nobody at Arkane have great experience in online and open world, and disaster ensure (while i still find some enjoyment in it)…
I see this as a misstep from Arkane, not the new normality from them; i think their next game will be more in their areas.
Co-op looter shooter, fortnite art style, insane system requirements, massive download size, the four horsemen of the apocalypse
We need to start treating the announcement of live service looter shooters with the same level of open hostility we did Lootboxes in battlefront 2
I'm sure I know why the game keeps giving you weapon skins. They want you to notice getting them, so they can possibly sell you some "extra" ones as DLC, or MTs in the future.
i loved how empathetic you were even though it was disappointing. great video mr human totally not cat person
I think a lot of the problems on the bug/ai side might be another case of an otherwise experienced developer thinking that they can get away with hiring fewer/less experienced coders due to the hype around "more streamlined" engines like Unreal or Unity. Short answer is: you can't, but I'm sure whoever's budgeting/scheduling these things thinks they can, and this results in rushed games by inexperienced teams because "Unreal Engine 4 is easier".
As to why they couldn't just use Dishonored 1's AI? Unreal 3 and 4/5 are completely different beasts. For a start, Unreal 3 used UnrealScript for its gameplay/ai programming and Unreal 4/5 uses C++ as well as a different overall system for handling AI (Blackboard) that on the surface should allow for better coordination between the code and design teams, but I've rarely seen it used well.
The stake laucher looks like the junk jet from fallout 4
genuinely worried this game might be to Arkane what Battlefield Hardline was to Visceral. an intentional flop spongewring to justify executing the studio that's had their time.
@ashy when have the whims of capitalists ever made sense from an artistic or even materialist perspective? they hire teams to make shows they immediately put in a vault where you cant buy it or stream it because its a good tax writeoff that will lead to them able to show more profit on the big green line they show their shareholders this quarter.
Ngl, that 75gb dummy file bit mad me angry. I recently moved back to the country and my wifi tanks for the day if I download over 10 gb. I dont know how I would have reacted if I bought this game and that happened.
I started getting genuinely worried about Arkane when Deathloop came out. This is just following the same downwards trajectory.
I guess that their next game will be arena shooter with predatory microtransactions, and the game following that will be a Unity asset flip with fake trailers made in Unreal, but it will be financed by some sort of shady crowdfunding site, and the "devs" will then abscond with the collected cash.
Then we'll learn that right after Death of the Outsider was released, the original Arkane stuff was replaced by doppelgangers from the evil parallel universe.
I honestly thought arcane died with death loop, to this day I don't know how people enjoy it
@@blank.e5plus yea deathloop doesnt even remotely look like what arkane used to make before
I still remember when Sunshot, my first exotic, dropped for me in Destiny 2. The exotic drop noise is a permanent dopamine hit, and despite being a Colored Loot Hell game, I still remember using the gun long past when I should have moved on because I was in love with the gunplay of the exploding hand cannon.
Hearing the story of that rifle…just…hurts.
The best outcome is if Arkane came out and said "jk guys we made this over a long weekend and wanted to fuck with you all, real game coming out tomorrow"
You can tell that they were trying to originally make a Vampire-oriented version of Prey with some of the elements still present in the game, but then Microsoft decided that Arkane (one of their golden children) needed to make a Live Service game to match up against the Destiny 2s of the world…and here we are because of it.
They most likely didn’t have the budget or time to properly implement the NPCs or Storyline for that “Immersive Sim” iteration of Redfall and Microsoft wasn’t going to back down from that mandate. If you swap out the whole “objects as money/supplies” aspect with a Prey-Like Crafting System as well as more quests and lively NPCs giving lore to the town, it instantly becomes an Arkane game
As is though, I couldn’t stand more than 2 hours of the game before I tapped out and felt embarrassed for downloading it
Microsoft did not even get involved in this game, and this is confirmed, not even they had hope for this game
Well this game answers the philosophical question. If you replace every part and crew member of a ship one by one, is it still the same ship? The answer is definitively no. Quality has changed, efficiency and effectiveness has changed, materials have changed. The only thing that remains is the name. The Arkane we knew is gone, and we're left with whatever is capable of producing Redfall.
In mathematics, there is a principle called the Pareto principle. It is applicable to many fields, but in project management it can be said that 20 percent of employees do 80 percent of the work. If we were to apply this to Arcane's leadership, we could say that the former leader and those that followed him out were likely that 20 percent that performed 80 percent of the work on past titles.
That could be the case. However, Raphael quit years ago.
@@Largentina. Sort of. Raphael left the same year Redfall's development started, in 2017, but he then came back in a consultant role for Deathloop.
When I saw the kind of game Deathloop was, I started to be worried that we wouldn't see another great immersive sim from Arkane.
Then this comes out and man does it feel bad to be right.
I've got this weird feeling that something has been off with Bethesda for a while now. Even the very popular shadow dropped Hi-fi rush felt off. I can't quite put my finger on why though.
As of this message, this video is only two hours old.
That said, the Lakers DID just advance by eliminating the Champs last night, so…🤨🤷🏾♂️
It was so sad to see the people who made Dishonored and Prey (hell I even found Deathloop to have fun gameplay) churn out something like this. It’s just derivative slop.
Even when they revealed it, I thought it was supposed to be a left 4 dead type game, which I thought was a weird turn for this studio. The red flags were kinda there, because the game was practically radio silent since its reveal.
I felt the whole righteous diatribe at the beginning of part 4 deep in my soul, as someone who cares a lot about video games, artistic works in general, and having seen this same sort of dulling of edges as the next big title gets milled out. Sometimes it feels like the people who see it happening or care are a really tiny minority. Glad to see someone talk about it at least.
Also deeply appreciate the cat content. Glad the algorithm led me this way, I have subscribed and now I shall devour your entire channel.
This hot mess doesn't seem much better visually than Prey to be honest (which was released years ago)
Same engine lol
@@anarche4900 it's not even the same engine. Prey was CryEngine, this is unreal.
Which probably explains the performance issues, using an engine they weren't familiar with and not being given the time/resources to learn how to use efficiently.
@@anarche4900 It's not even kind of the same engine. Your ignorance is really obvious.
31:59 i dont think i can ever have faith in the studio after seeing that lathe, but i think its a good metaphor for the game it self, the dam thing is scaled incorrectly, the centers should be at a comfortable working height, lathes are not some oddly shaped things, in the usa we have laws about work surface distances and all that kind of stuff and its pretty fitting that arcane would fuck that up...
just because i feel like it lets take a moment and assume that's how that lathe really exist in that world, the most common Hight for a lathes centers from ground is just about 3ft from the floor, lets be GENOROUSE and say that dude is a ABSLOUTE mantle and hes only 5ft 2, those centers about 5ft 3 off the ground, thats a FLAGRENT osha violation. as such it requires a platform in front of it, next lets look at the estop
OOPS looks like the posable estop show on the machine (the 3 button cluster) is at least 6ft off the ground, that's another Osha volition seeing as estops cant be more then 5 1/2 feet off the ground!!! or even worse, the machine it self lacks a estop which oh boy you never want to be charged with that one.
i guess the point here is, is there any reason to get invested in the world if thers evidence of the world is not following its own laws and rules? sure magic is wonky but most games have something that resembles logic when it comes to industry props i mean its obvious that the steel industry is mature in that world.
Game so bad there was no cooking segment to salvage it
70$. Remember when corporate elites from AAA studios claimed the increase in price is because the scope of AAA games increased? Yeah, I don't think any of that money goes to quality.
Charlatan, once again, your video was really good. It's sad to witness such a rapid decline of a studio that was once exceptional. I truly enjoy your videos, and I love to see the immersive sim genre receive the attention it rightfully deserves. I do have one point of critique to offer. I believe it would greatly enhance your videos and arguments if you could showcase one or two examples when discussing wooden dialogue or generic music. This way, we can hear it for ourselves and better understand your point. I don't think I heard one line of dialogue in the whole video, to the point where I will definitely have to look for another video just to hear it. Which is a compliment in a sense, you convinced me of your case even without proof. The same goes for the questions montage; it takes me longer to grasp what is being shown on the screen compared to the time it takes you to explain it. I often struggle to contextualize what you're trying to convey when it occurs simultaneously and then immediately jumps to the next point. In a way, allow the game itself to speak more for itself, I am sure it would help your case.
Cant wait for your next video!!!!😁
Like all businesses, people come and go from game devs. In 5-7 years time hardly anyone is recognizable.
The fact that you had any real hope for Redfall is quite endearing. Right from the get-go, when the Devs/Project Leads were talking about and showing their work-in-progress, I knew the game was gonna flop. How hard? Not as hard as it actually did. Nothing against the artistic talent there, far from it because that is the best part of the game, but everything else about it is just utter trash and painfully basic/boring.
I'm usually pretty hard on games because I want them to succeed. Tough love and all that. However... in Redfall's case when it not only looks but feels like we were given only a shell of something? Yeah no, it shouldn't have come out at all. Rip that fucker apart and rebuild it with some semblance of love and passion. Or just toss it in the trash because it's clear the devs had no passion working on it. When that happens, you know something is wrong with the team.
just so everyone knows, this is not the same arkane. the brains behind all the titles you love dearly has left even before deathloop i think. raphael colantonioit the guys name and he made his own company and their first game was weird west. obviously lower budget but there you can see the sort of spark these older arcane games had continue. dont get your hopes up for arkane anymore, they are not the same thing that you used to love.
I was worried about this game ever since the reveal of it when I saw the Fortnite ripoff character design. Then they said it was a co op looter shooter and I pretty much gave up all hope after that.
With Jacob the cloak helps a lot since if you pop it and just go away the vampires stop chasing you at once. Alternatively you can also pop cloak and kill 2 or 3 vampires using the advantage of surprise attack that the cloak gives you. Heartstopper also helps somewhat if you end up having cloak on cooldown. I am kinda glad that the game doesnt punish you if you die in the nest since at least on the hardest difficulty trying to solo so many vampires at once is pretty hard since I think those nests werent really designed for the solo players. Though after 25 hours of playing this game I am not sure if i actually want to finish it since it is all so average or below average when it comes to gameplay. At least i played this on gamepass.
I always watch through your content statement. It's always an inspiration. Excellent and unfortunate video. Keep up the good work!
I kept going:ok I feel reviewers are over doing it on what is a clear “turn off your brain game.”
This footage, the way charlatan described it, and the constant mental breakdowns finally convinced me. Holy shit, his is why I only play some game pass games for 30 minutes.
I am terribly sorry but for odd reasons I immediately knows it was going to be bad by day zero , strangely enough hunter the reckoning , which very old pd2 game, have simply outmatch all vampire hunters game even monsters hunters.
The devs for that were also making The Grinder iirc. Shame that went into dev hell before getting canned quietly.
Redfall is supposed to take place in Massachusetts, but it doesn't look or feel like Massachusetts. Game devs have a hard time recreating Massachusetts.
Not all games need to be art and just because a games isn't art doesn't mean it is automatically generic
But this game doesn't apply to that logic
@@morkgin2459 I was talking about in general
This seems like a game where they went "Well if it's not finished at least it'll be on game pass so people won't hate it as much"
For me only mystery is why Arx and Messiah don't have better scores, I know they have their flaws but they are still gems and classics...
I think it's because back in the day a 7 of 10 was a good score. Now 7/10 is considered bad.
@@CharlatanWonder Makes sense, thanks for the answer. Just found your channel, gonna binge watch it tomorrow. Thank you for your work and sorry for the pain of having to play through Redfall.
I was waiting for your vid on this!!!! I'm glad you took your time, this game wouldn't be worth stressing over
Never ever go full live service
I'd rather a game have 6 or 7 unique weapons like Doom than 1000 reskins of a standard AR.
I blame Bethesda. They wanted Arkane to go towards more of a multiplayer route.
Experience has taught me the biggest cause for a game coming out with this many issues ALWAYS comes down to mismanagement.
I'm sure the dev team wanted Redfall to be something truly great, you can tell there's a foundation for something great, but the higher ups just janked the game out of their hands and pushed it out unfinished just to meet publisher and investor deadlines, it has happened before, it happened to Cyberpunk, it happened to Overkill's The Walking Dead, it happened to Sonic 06.
I feel playing the blame game, like you said, is unproductive and also rather pointless, all it's caused is for people who worked on the game to get harassed and threatened just because angry gamers need someone to unload their rage on, all we can really do is accept this didn't work out and hope whatever is worked on next actually gets to see some actual love instead of the boardroom meeting garbage this turned out to be.
Thanks for taking one for the team Char, keep on being awesome!
So about those DLC characters...