As it exists ethic hackers, who help companies to discover backdoors, Fateless should have some kind of rewards for players who discover and report to you a glitch. That way you will be 100% certain that you will know quickly that your game have a mistake, so you can solve the problem, and the clever people who find those glitches are rewarded with fair compensation for their cleverness
Im with Dirk on this one, if the game has an exploitable bug I think it's on the developer to fix. If its causing a problem in the game then the developers need to step in and get things fixed but its not the players fault
The wor situation was wild, because some CCs promoted it and encouraged everyone to do it and telling them it was "safe" and not a glitch or exploit. Telling the player base Moonton couldn't do anything about it.
As soon as I saw Fastidious video on this, I thought that he and other CCs, should have reported it straight away and not promoted it in videos. The outcome is that some players ended up in a loss situation but the CCs will have still made money from those videos.
One of the most interesting topics that you've discussed. And it's always nice to see good old Neo doing well and having a nice nap in the background 😀
Please bridge the gap between mobile and computer. I dont have a PC i can play games on. If the mobile version is too far off from the PC. Then I just won't play. I love all you guys and gals putting this game together. So please make the effort, it will hurt to not play this game I've been watching get put together buy some of my fave people in the gaming community.
Great convo guys! I know u introduced Uho(sp) as a member of the Fateless Team but i didnt hear u say what role he has there? Thanks for always reading our comments/suggestions too. We appreciate it ☺
If a bug/exploit is reported, but not accepted by the company, there should be no penalty for spreading/using the issue. Lots of game companies will not accept a bug unless thousands of reports come in.
I think a lot of it comes down to how the game operators communicate it to the players. If they are on top of things and warn players quickly that it is an exploit, then rolling back, banning accounts, etc., is fair game. If it has been going on for months and *players have reported it*(!), and nothing has happened, then it’s part of the game and the developers may want to develop it out, but the players should not be penalized. Plan for some sort of interruptive banner you can get to all players before they enter the game just in case you need to make announcements like this.
**Edit: Ok you caught me commenting slightly too early in the podcast lool. Runelite ftw.** As an OSRS creator, this may come as no surprise that I'll so OSRS has done this with 3rd party clients. Runelite was really like that community driven tool. People could add QoL features to it. Ultimately, Jagex (OSRS developer) decided to officially sanction Runelite and work with them to integrate it into their launcher. This allowed for a bit tighter control over additional QoL into the client, but came with the benefit of accessibility to more folks. They also do add features from Runelite into the official clients over time. Kind of like the best of both worlds. Features that people add to Runelite that end up being really popular will eventually get pulled into the main client for people who either don't want to use the 3rd party one or can't (if they are playing on mobile for example). I think for this particular topic OSRS would be a great case study for you guys if you wanted to dig in further.
I'm a fan of things such as RSL helper because in my opinion these are features that should already be in the game to begin with. The only reason the company should be mad is because someone out there is literally developing features for their game better than they are. I do believe it's an unfair advantage when compared to others who don't use it but when it's something like RSL Helper when anyone can use it if they want to then I don't feel so bad about using it.
When you guys started talking about a recent exploit in the hero collector scene, I thought you were going to bring up the starter link exploit thing 😂
I see exploits as the devs fault for releasing the patch that allowed it to happen, so those that find it and use it should keep their spoils. I can get behind devs that disable content that has an exploit until they can patch it, but if it takes longer than a day in a mobile game, then that hinders the community's progress. Destiny 2 back when that laser gun was really strong, the devs had Zur sell it just b4 the competitive mode rolled around so everyone would be on the playing field and i think more devs should approach these situations like they did and just let everyone enjoy it while it lasts. In a gacha, devs would obviously b hesitant to just give every1 a unit for free, but they could give free entries, stamina, skip tickets, or high tier gear instead.
I have shit for brains so I struggle with the difference between "exploit" and cheat. But I respect the clever bar stewards who do find those exploits that are not cheating...I have been playing Raid since 2019 and still can not get Seer to do anything good (but that is as much to do with laziness as stupidity). I can do spider 20 in 5 seconds with that dwarf fusion chap, which was the last fusion I ever did, way back in 2023, and it feels like an exploit. Not a fan of Age Of Empires but the 2nd Civilization game had an awesome fantasy version which I would love to replay, some 30 years later. i am hoping in the not too distant future I can get an AI to play some of my Raid accounts as I run 22 each day and it takes some admin. You need 22 accounts to have optimum solo siege combat effectiveness. Well, 20 maybe, but need room for human errors. Seems weird a new up and coming company in the gaming industry does not employ some "big brains" i.e. psychologists to address these moral dilemmas (at what point does the frontier of "exploit" cross over to cheating), as most industries use AI & psychology to exploit the consumer.
@Thurgosh_OG could have written "If we didn't have a fixed amount of auto battle, I wouldn't be using bluestack ". Most features of bluestack is basically used to auto battle or sell gear. That could be done with the in game features if it wasn't so restricted. Most players use bluestack (or other) simply to do something the game allows but simply doesn't gives enough. If you could use the number of battle you wish for the energy you had (or gems)... there wouldn't be a need for using it.
Cheat engine does a hell of a lot more than just speed up the game by the way. You can literally edit ANY value that's saved on your PC and not sync from the devs servers. Imagine how powerful this could be! This is why this was banned, the speed up thing was irrelevant. I truly believe if this was all it was capable of, it would never have been banned. IMO, if it's part of the game, intended or not, I will use it if it benefits me and I am able. If it's not in the spirit of the game, it's on the developers to resolve. It would be wrong banning someone from using something that was built into the game, again, intentional or not. Whether you get disqualified from certain tournaments or something in game is different, they are well within rights. Banning is too extreme. Cheating and exploiting bugs are different. In short, if it's in the game, people shouldn't be banned for using it, if you need a third party tool to cheat, instant permanent ban.
As someone who has been gaming 42 years and played 1000's of games... I think ANY outside/3rd party programs should not be allowed. That being said, I use RSL helper to do my auto battles. But I see that as Plariums problem. If they supplied me with enough ingame auto battles I wouldn't even use RSL Helper. I've played Runescape for over 23 years and bots/cheats really ruin parts of the game. If you need to cheat to enjoy a game, you're not true gamer and should find something else in life to do. Anyways, great talk! Thanks for the video guys! See ya in the next one!
While I have been gaming about as long as you have, I agree about bots and cheats but some 3rd party add ons and external tools have been really useful to me, so I think it depends on the situation. Exploits like the recent WoR one, should have been reported to Moonton, as soon as the CCs became aware of it and not used to promote the exploit for YT clicks and the income that came from that. I started on a Spectrum 48k but had played on old school consoles before that.
The PC requirements to run mobile games are generally low, so keep your eye out for anyone giving away older PCs. It's a good way to get your foot in the PC door. Also might depend on your country, if this happens but it's quite common in the UK.
I don’t mind a game that is ‘grindy’ but I think RSL Helper exists because the grind is too extreme. In terms of limited time events that only last a few days, tied to a fusion event, that pushes players to need to play more than a regular amount of waking hours. Fomo drove RSL helper, and Plarium never made me feel like it respected my time. Im hoping Godforge has more reasonable event point thresholds and length of events that dont make players feel forced to use 3rd party clicker to keep up with all the events. It can still be grindy, but hopefully not as atrocious as RSL
Event point thresholds are key. Like Watcher lets you do fusion events with zero summons, so you don't need that to dictate when you pull. It's nice to have some flexibility and not lose out for missing ONE event
i dont know too... but as you all mention that thirdparty programs is a line. But again there are some Good Programs like HH optimizer and some of dose clickers... but do no...i guess if it has to much impact on PVP is some how a big deal... i believe we all had times in games where we wanted to just HAVE fun in game and ENABLE that unlimited cheat for ammo for money for health and soo on...but dose are good only IN PVE games where you dont hurt Others by doing this action...soo in shoort... i too think if you exploit a game in game its self and not hurting to much PVP economy you should not punish players. I will leave this one on you TEAM.
Any third party app or tool is cheating and must lead to an IP ban as its not part of the game and isn't available for everyone who installs the game via the official store as a part of the game.IF a life quality function is needed must be added by devs and available for everyone playing equally.
As it exists ethic hackers, who help companies to discover backdoors, Fateless should have some kind of rewards for players who discover and report to you a glitch. That way you will be 100% certain that you will know quickly that your game have a mistake, so you can solve the problem, and the clever people who find those glitches are rewarded with fair compensation for their cleverness
Problem is that historically, that type of system has led to programmers deliberately creating bugs for their partner to "find" and get a Bounty for
A hacker bounty. 👍🏼
Im with Dirk on this one, if the game has an exploitable bug I think it's on the developer to fix.
If its causing a problem in the game then the developers need to step in and get things fixed but its not the players fault
Hellhades optimizer and deadwoodjedi tools are a good example of tools by community
The wor situation was wild, because some CCs promoted it and encouraged everyone to do it and telling them it was "safe" and not a glitch or exploit. Telling the player base Moonton couldn't do anything about it.
As soon as I saw Fastidious video on this, I thought that he and other CCs, should have reported it straight away and not promoted it in videos. The outcome is that some players ended up in a loss situation but the CCs will have still made money from those videos.
@Thurgosh_OG Yeah they all created the issue and instead of warning everyone they promoted it. Then used the issue to their benefit for views lol
One of the most interesting topics that you've discussed. And it's always nice to see good old Neo doing well and having a nice nap in the background 😀
Please bridge the gap between mobile and computer. I dont have a PC i can play games on. If the mobile version is too far off from the PC. Then I just won't play. I love all you guys and gals putting this game together. So please make the effort, it will hurt to not play this game I've been watching get put together buy some of my fave people in the gaming community.
Oh lawd it's my beautiful face..
Pog
Great convo guys! I know u introduced Uho(sp) as a member of the Fateless Team but i didnt hear u say what role he has there? Thanks for always reading our comments/suggestions too. We appreciate it ☺
He's a Community Manager :)
If a bug/exploit is reported, but not accepted by the company, there should be no penalty for spreading/using the issue. Lots of game companies will not accept a bug unless thousands of reports come in.
I think a lot of it comes down to how the game operators communicate it to the players. If they are on top of things and warn players quickly that it is an exploit, then rolling back, banning accounts, etc., is fair game. If it has been going on for months and *players have reported it*(!), and nothing has happened, then it’s part of the game and the developers may want to develop it out, but the players should not be penalized.
Plan for some sort of interruptive banner you can get to all players before they enter the game just in case you need to make announcements like this.
**Edit: Ok you caught me commenting slightly too early in the podcast lool. Runelite ftw.**
As an OSRS creator, this may come as no surprise that I'll so OSRS has done this with 3rd party clients. Runelite was really like that community driven tool. People could add QoL features to it. Ultimately, Jagex (OSRS developer) decided to officially sanction Runelite and work with them to integrate it into their launcher. This allowed for a bit tighter control over additional QoL into the client, but came with the benefit of accessibility to more folks. They also do add features from Runelite into the official clients over time. Kind of like the best of both worlds. Features that people add to Runelite that end up being really popular will eventually get pulled into the main client for people who either don't want to use the 3rd party one or can't (if they are playing on mobile for example).
I think for this particular topic OSRS would be a great case study for you guys if you wanted to dig in further.
Great video
I'm a fan of things such as RSL helper because in my opinion these are features that should already be in the game to begin with. The only reason the company should be mad is because someone out there is literally developing features for their game better than they are. I do believe it's an unfair advantage when compared to others who don't use it but when it's something like RSL Helper when anyone can use it if they want to then I don't feel so bad about using it.
It also depends if exploits are there for a long time and suddenly neefed and you need to rebuild whole teams and strategy
When you guys started talking about a recent exploit in the hero collector scene, I thought you were going to bring up the starter link exploit thing 😂
I see exploits as the devs fault for releasing the patch that allowed it to happen, so those that find it and use it should keep their spoils. I can get behind devs that disable content that has an exploit until they can patch it, but if it takes longer than a day in a mobile game, then that hinders the community's progress. Destiny 2 back when that laser gun was really strong, the devs had Zur sell it just b4 the competitive mode rolled around so everyone would be on the playing field and i think more devs should approach these situations like they did and just let everyone enjoy it while it lasts. In a gacha, devs would obviously b hesitant to just give every1 a unit for free, but they could give free entries, stamina, skip tickets, or high tier gear instead.
I have shit for brains so I struggle with the difference between "exploit" and cheat. But I respect the clever bar stewards who do find those exploits that are not cheating...I have been playing Raid since 2019 and still can not get Seer to do anything good (but that is as much to do with laziness as stupidity). I can do spider 20 in 5 seconds with that dwarf fusion chap, which was the last fusion I ever did, way back in 2023, and it feels like an exploit. Not a fan of Age Of Empires but the 2nd Civilization game had an awesome fantasy version which I would love to replay, some 30 years later.
i am hoping in the not too distant future I can get an AI to play some of my Raid accounts as I run 22 each day and it takes some admin. You need 22 accounts to have optimum solo siege combat effectiveness. Well, 20 maybe, but need room for human errors.
Seems weird a new up and coming company in the gaming industry does not employ some "big brains" i.e. psychologists to address these moral dilemmas (at what point does the frontier of "exploit" cross over to cheating), as most industries use AI & psychology to exploit the consumer.
Once the game is released, people are going to do whatever they can do to max their account.
If you didn't have a fixed amount of auto battle, I wouldn't be using bluestack
Who is the 'You' in this case?
@Thurgosh_OG could have written "If we didn't have a fixed amount of auto battle, I wouldn't be using bluestack ".
Most features of bluestack is basically used to auto battle or sell gear. That could be done with the in game features if it wasn't so restricted. Most players use bluestack (or other) simply to do something the game allows but simply doesn't gives enough. If you could use the number of battle you wish for the energy you had (or gems)... there wouldn't be a need for using it.
Cheat engine does a hell of a lot more than just speed up the game by the way. You can literally edit ANY value that's saved on your PC and not sync from the devs servers. Imagine how powerful this could be! This is why this was banned, the speed up thing was irrelevant. I truly believe if this was all it was capable of, it would never have been banned.
IMO, if it's part of the game, intended or not, I will use it if it benefits me and I am able. If it's not in the spirit of the game, it's on the developers to resolve.
It would be wrong banning someone from using something that was built into the game, again, intentional or not. Whether you get disqualified from certain tournaments or something in game is different, they are well within rights. Banning is too extreme.
Cheating and exploiting bugs are different. In short, if it's in the game, people shouldn't be banned for using it, if you need a third party tool to cheat, instant permanent ban.
I personally never use any 3rd party programs to play a video game = NEVER been banned from any video game
As someone who has been gaming 42 years and played 1000's of games... I think ANY outside/3rd party programs should not be allowed. That being said, I use RSL helper to do my auto battles. But I see that as Plariums problem. If they supplied me with enough ingame auto battles I wouldn't even use RSL Helper.
I've played Runescape for over 23 years and bots/cheats really ruin parts of the game. If you need to cheat to enjoy a game, you're not true gamer and should find something else in life to do. Anyways, great talk! Thanks for the video guys! See ya in the next one!
While I have been gaming about as long as you have, I agree about bots and cheats but some 3rd party add ons and external tools have been really useful to me, so I think it depends on the situation.
Exploits like the recent WoR one, should have been reported to Moonton, as soon as the CCs became aware of it and not used to promote the exploit for YT clicks and the income that came from that.
I started on a Spectrum 48k but had played on old school consoles before that.
No bane unless player is cheating. No bane for players taking advantage of a glitch in the game that is the responsibility of the game producer.
Hey guys, if I get accepted for the beta and want to give feedback, is it ok to do in other languages than english?
About mobile players and tools... I'm strictly mobile but it's not by choice, I can't afford a computer at this point in time. Just saying.
The PC requirements to run mobile games are generally low, so keep your eye out for anyone giving away older PCs. It's a good way to get your foot in the PC door. Also might depend on your country, if this happens but it's quite common in the UK.
I don’t mind a game that is ‘grindy’ but I think RSL Helper exists because the grind is too extreme. In terms of limited time events that only last a few days, tied to a fusion event, that pushes players to need to play more than a regular amount of waking hours. Fomo drove RSL helper, and Plarium never made me feel like it respected my time.
Im hoping Godforge has more reasonable event point thresholds and length of events that dont make players feel forced to use 3rd party clicker to keep up with all the events.
It can still be grindy, but hopefully not as atrocious as RSL
Event point thresholds are key. Like Watcher lets you do fusion events with zero summons, so you don't need that to dictate when you pull. It's nice to have some flexibility and not lose out for missing ONE event
I hope dirk is nowhere near this game during its development holy shit
i dont know too... but as you all mention that thirdparty programs is a line. But again there are some Good Programs like HH optimizer and some of dose clickers... but do no...i guess if it has to much impact on PVP is some how a big deal... i believe we all had times in games where we wanted to just HAVE fun in game and ENABLE that unlimited cheat for ammo for money for health and soo on...but dose are good only IN PVE games where you dont hurt Others by doing this action...soo in shoort... i too think if you exploit a game in game its self and not hurting to much PVP economy you should not punish players. I will leave this one on you TEAM.
3rd party software a no go. bug or glitch in game devs need to fix asap. not the players fault
This Dirk character have some horrible takes on abusing bugs, please don't let him make the calls on whats ok and not.
His turn bar was empty, so his default answer was, “Let them abuse it!”
stop asking money for auto runs. problem solved. there is energy in the game and already monetized.
True, if you have the energy/stamina, then you should be able to use it where you want to, as much as you want to in the game.
Any third party app or tool is cheating and must lead to an IP ban as its not part of the game and isn't available for everyone who installs the game via the official store as a part of the game.IF a life quality function is needed must be added by devs and available for everyone playing equally.