I had just moved to South Florida from a "mission team" in East Hampton New York in 2010. It was a wild time for me, as if God opened my eyes to see the church in a way I never saw it before. I had heard John speak and he was talking about the Holy Spirit, and back in the day, you never heard anyone talking about the Holy Spirit. I said to myself, this is what is missing. He had mentioned a book called Wild Goose Chase by Mark Batterson. I kid you not, it was like scales fell from my eyes. My life has never been the same. I found a peace and my purpose in my walk with Christ. I am now doing what I was called to do.❤
Thank you for the content! It was great. Please keep me in prayer as I have been praying for many years about starting a house church in Los Angeles. I was in full time ministry for 25 years and am ready for the next chapter of ministry to begin! Thank you for your prayers. Pastor George : )
My husband and I have thoroughly enjoyed having a community reflective of a house church. We have been on that journey since the beginning of 2023. It's our space of healing, shalom, oikos, and emotional safety. Thank you for this interview and how it defines unity and togetherness....because that has been one of our largest obstacles with the transition. It has definitely changed my perspective on "spiritual success" and has allowed me to hone in on Jesus' heart. It is also a very vulnerable and humbling place but it is what was needed for my family.
Very honest and fair conversation. We all need all our brothers and sisters to fulfill the unity ofJohn 17 and the extravagance of the church in Ephesians.
Love everything in this interview. John is definitely “the first avenger” when it comes to the house church movement within our movement. Gives me chills to think about what God is doing
Supremely helpful conversation. Theologically deep and profound, yet also touched on very practical aspects of following Jesus. "Autonomy? I trust you."...and God's Holy Spirit in you. Beautiful talk, John and Kyle.
We're big John Porter fans in the Baird family! so grateful for this refreshing and convicting discussion. This series has a wonderful habit of positively affecting my life.
44:41 "70% ofnour offering goes to helping the poor" My wife and I had thr same experience. When we started doing house church for a year we gave 10% to services that helped refugees and we saw beautiful things happen
I appreciate the conversation. I can also appreciate that both of you seem to be tentmaking. That being said, I’m always happy to see people getting away from what you guys term legacy church, and always disappointed when that move is pragmatic or materialistically driven rather than idealogically driven, as in driven by a desire to do church the way Christ set it up. Personally I’m of the opinion that the greatest results come from doing and preaching the original eklesia. The early church turned the world upside down doing it that way. And yet somehow in spite of failure by any and every metric, Corporation Christianity thinks it has evolved to this present model.
Thanks for this interview. My wife and I have been part of a house church for the last five years, and so much of this interview resonates with our own experience. A house church ought to be, as this brother said, an "ecosystem of grace."
To the host thank you for your ability to listen to your guest and your restraint in not trying to compete with him in knowledge,wisdom,insight etc. To you comment and question about undertone of "control" why there is such a fear and a need for control. I would like to humbly weigh in on this discussion by saying I think the present church model that we have inherited is based on "hierarchy". And the this model is about human government as a consequence domination becomes its main goal. Jesus specificality taught his followers to be wary of this prideful and divisive spirit when he said: "But Jesus called them to Himself and said, “You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and those who are great exercise authority over them. Yet it shall not be so among you; but whoever desires to become great among you, let him be your servant." Secondly, The single pastor model has also added to this dilemma. One man trying to maintain his relevance and pertinence has indeed destroyed the conception of the true liberty with which the offices should function. A lot more can be said but lots have been said afore what remains for the church to do is to reclaim through humility and prayer the privileged position given to her by God. God's richest blessings upon you both and to all your listeners and members of the body of Christ Jesus our Lord.
HC can be interconnected and interdependent and have a global strategy while each one works locally. This is in fact important to address larger issue that affect all of the HCs as a whole. Issues of offerings/salaries/training/dating/housing all fall under this umbrella.
I too have been convicted but reluctant to move out of church for fear of disobeying God when in reality, I would only be leaving the self made authority of man. I have no problem seeking the blessling of others, and my journey away from a corrupted church, as I now understand it, started in 1978. I can no longer be part, bless or even endorse a system that in my mind has done incalculable damage to Christ's body by misplaced authority, the separation of minister and member, and a lost community. Love the show.
Followers of the Way in Boston are taking this to a new level where everyone in the House Church lives close together like on a block. The Anabaptist have been doing this since the 16th century.
How do you put bread on the table? Like everyone else. You do what you can to provide for yourself and your family while doing the right thing. God always provides!
Great point it is the ministers, and then he appoints only people who support "his" beliefs. I agree this is when for unity, we must separate with a blessing
One further comment I wish to make is that you guys have demonstrated a positive attitude in not succumbing to the temptation to make sweeping statements that lead to distracting judgemental statements that only lead to wars of Words, Wills and Feelings. However; I think you owe it to the keen listener to be very discerning in demonstrating biblically where?how your practices are based so that it does not seem a matter of mere opinion and preference. Albeit I know there will always be naysayers and opposers for even scripture declares that they will be in the last days but it is good to present things from an authoritative biblical point of view. I hope you understand what I am getting at. Not saying to come across as a Mr. I am-right-and-I-know-it-all but in the same spirit of meekness show where what you do is both the Will of God and the explicit demands of the teachings of Christ and his Apostles. God richest blessings again.
Seems like this particular flavor of house church is the same as small groups within a large church, but forgoing the teaching, music, and fellowship at the unified service and Sunday School, and limiting it to the small groups where there is more learning and fellowship
32:43 This is the kind of narrow thinking that had great consequences on peoples lives. And it is absolutely possible for a single person to lead a church. Our fellowship of churches still do not have vision or find value in those who are not married, unless they are a college student. One thing I do know, is our walk with God is a progression. It's not all revealed at once, lol, and we need to have grace and patience with one another. We also have to realize the feast of life that God has for us and not settle for a life that is not bringing Him glory.
After Francis Chan, gave up his pastoral position at a mega churh, he started a house church. He trained leaders and sent them out. Thise leaders trained leaders within their group and now they have a large network of churches. Its much more effective to have 5000 engaged house church members than to have 5000 spectators gathering in one building. Why do we believe that we have to get buildings to facilitate growth?
I’m trying to wrap my head around how elders, teachers and deacons of legacy churches practically fit into the autonomous House Church model. Also, how do house churches handle growth on a large scale?
I've visited a number of different church groups in past few months to see how they "do church" in an attempt to just learn. From one group I visited - their house church group is their local church. That's their immediate family (small/life/community) group. They meet together throughout the week and on Sundays. Once a month, however, all the house churches come together for a Sunday service to fellowship and worship. Different members from each house church group meetup over Zoom for more training and help. Members understand they are in the service of God. Members are raised up and trained to take on various roles according to qualifications. When the time is right and the Spirit has made it clear, a new group forms out of another one (this may also include someone from an entirely different house church group joining the newly formed one). I imagine if they're faithful in the little God entrusts them with, He will allow them to grow and bless them with taking on more and spreading out in their territory. It certainly seems like their approach removes a lot of the safety of the typical legacy church and forces them to have to lean into God more (prayer, reading, meditation, the Spirit). It seems to be working. And I certainly don't have anything against the larger legacy church.
Plurality of elders fits house church. When you realize elders are hands on Shepherds, one for every 15 or 25 people is the ratio. I know a church of 2500 with over 100 elders. If you only manage structure, less works. But not when you walk with your sheep in personal ways. Also multiply the household churches... it's less complicated to repeat. No cost. After 15 people, esp 20 to 25 the structure required ratchets up... you end up acting more like a traditional church with a few platformed. Less individual participation is possible. House churches should have 1 Tim 3 qualified leaders. That's how we function. 5 churches... My 2 cents. Been doing this in three countries since 2005, but traditional church plants also.
S.O.S.! Beloved faithful churches are dying in Southern California, and on the West Coast in general. We desperately need to find a way forward as we navigate the chaotic times that surround us. How can you help?
While there are likely existing house churches in your area, God is also calling new groups together. Pray and pay attention to the people God may be calling you to gather with. Blessings.
Seems to me, legacy church needs to be less sermon-centric and more inter-relational, allowing input from everyone and anyone, given today's topic and a good servant-hearted gatekeeper. No church, legacy, small group or house, can function long without oikos.
I've got a better idea, people gathering in homes to talk about reason, scientific discoveries and making the world a better place. And you can bring brownies, too.
I'm 50/50 on these thoughts.. in the early biblical church days, people gather in home of course, but only because early Christians were being persecuted by the various kings, etc during that time because they saw Christianity as a new threat. Eventually this "assembly" evolved over the years into a formal Church building where all were welcome to share and learn about the gospel and Jesus Christ. So I understand the reasons for having Church buildings.. It's no different than any other educational facility. People come to learn, and you can't grow your audience in someone's house. Ultimately you will need to expand if you want to spread the gospel. Today, these newer Churches are also looking to focus on the younger generations who also need Christ in their lives, and will ultimately become our future leaders when us old folks leave the planet. That means the tempo and type of music may need to evolve, as well as the message and how it is delivered. Churches need to be more welcoming to these younger folks but without distorting the truth. When I was very young, as a kid I felt like I was obligated to go to Church because my parents did. I would sit there not knowing what to do while my parents read and sang songs for two hours. There were no activities for me and the music seemed boring. Fast forward today, and the kids now have a whole new experience. The music and tempo matches more with modern times, but the message remains the same. They also have classrooms for kids learning the bible with cartoon characters, and biblical movies that everyone could enjoy. I would rather have my teenage children go to these "movie" nights than spend the evening at the local strip mall. This is what we need to support the next generation. Obviously, let's not "institutionalize" it by turning Churches into businesses.. It's about teaching and spreading the gospel, not about generating revenue. A "House Church" environment could be more personal, and potentially a great alternative but a place that can only support 10-30 people could becoming a limiting factor. Once you hit that limit, others who may want to participate will be discouraged and thus find themselves with no place to go.. Those are the ones we need to focus on .
I love the idea of the House Church but we are doing it all wrong here in America. Sure there has been some limited success but that can happen in any pyramid model. But from what I understand is we have been trying this for 20 years now. I would expect much better results if it is a viable way to continue. No, and our problem is we are not addressing the core issues in church. We call this Root Cause Analysis. Let's look at David as our example. A great king. A great leader. A great warrior. A great example for a man after God's own heart. He put God first. But he was a horrible father. And he was a horrible grandfather. It is because of him that the kingdom failed. The kingdom divided, worshipped idols, and when their wealth dried up they could no longer pay tributes to other nations and were eventually captured. Solution to our problem. Start with our normal churches. Yes, we know they are flawed and deeply corrupted. Just hang in with me a moment. The solution is Home Churching your family and kids. Home Church must start with your kids. Any Believer of 5 years, must be encouraged to start their own Home Church on Saturdays with their family. Each family set aside 1 hour every Saturday to come together for church. Then if there are no kids in your home, start Home Churches with others of your age group and spiritual age group. Anyone who has been a Christian for 5 years is ready to have their own Home Church. On Saturdays. Then go to Sunday Church. If everyone will do this, then all the problems we have with our churches will be solved.
House church reveals! Love that! We should want that! So transformational.
I m from Brazil, thank you mr Porter for your faith for us.
I had just moved to South Florida from a "mission team" in East Hampton New York in 2010. It was a wild time for me, as if God opened my eyes to see the church in a way I never saw it before. I had heard John speak and he was talking about the Holy Spirit, and back in the day, you never heard anyone talking about the Holy Spirit. I said to myself, this is what is missing. He had mentioned a book called Wild Goose Chase by Mark Batterson. I kid you not, it was like scales fell from my eyes. My life has never been the same. I found a peace and my purpose in my walk with Christ. I am now doing what I was called to do.❤
Wild Goose was HUGE for me
Thank you for the content! It was great. Please keep me in prayer as I have been praying for many years about starting a house church in Los Angeles.
I was in full time ministry for 25 years and am ready for the next chapter of ministry to begin!
Thank you for your prayers.
Pastor George : )
“Transformation is more about connection than information.” Loved that and so many other thoughts shared here. Thank you Kyle and John!
My husband and I have thoroughly enjoyed having a community reflective of a house church. We have been on that journey since the beginning of 2023. It's our space of healing, shalom, oikos, and emotional safety. Thank you for this interview and how it defines unity and togetherness....because that has been one of our largest obstacles with the transition. It has definitely changed my perspective on "spiritual success" and has allowed me to hone in on Jesus' heart. It is also a very vulnerable and humbling place but it is what was needed for my family.
Very honest and fair conversation. We all need all our brothers and sisters to fulfill the unity ofJohn 17 and the extravagance of the church in Ephesians.
HC in China have navigated many of these topics and has rich lessons to share
Thank you John and Kyle! This was so good! Love you guys!
This is a very balanced way to look at small groups and something we’ve had on our hearts for a few years. Looking forward to learning more.
LOL, Hilarious! We are building Blockbusters in 2021. So true! We need to pay attention to what the Holy Spirit is showing us. SO GOOD!
Love everything in this interview. John is definitely “the first avenger” when it comes to the house church movement within our movement. Gives me chills to think about what God is doing
Supremely helpful conversation. Theologically deep and profound, yet also touched on very practical aspects of following Jesus. "Autonomy? I trust you."...and God's Holy Spirit in you. Beautiful talk, John and Kyle.
This was very helpful! Love and appreciate John &.Barbara. Thank you Kyle.
We're big John Porter fans in the Baird family! so grateful for this refreshing and convicting discussion. This series has a wonderful habit of positively affecting my life.
Yes I am going to look at this video again and again and take better notes. I love it! Thanks!
Go John Porter!!!!
44:41 "70% ofnour offering goes to helping the poor"
My wife and I had thr same experience. When we started doing house church for a year we gave 10% to services that helped refugees and we saw beautiful things happen
Amazing conversation! Thank you Kyle & John!
Definitely going to listen again & take notes.
Our pleasure!
I appreciate the conversation. I can also appreciate that both of you seem to be tentmaking.
That being said, I’m always happy to see people getting away from what you guys term legacy church, and always disappointed when that move is pragmatic or materialistically driven rather than idealogically driven, as in driven by a desire to do church the way Christ set it up.
Personally I’m of the opinion that the greatest results come from doing and preaching the original eklesia. The early church turned the world upside down doing it that way. And yet somehow in spite of failure by any and every metric, Corporation Christianity thinks it has evolved to this present model.
I am really inspired by this house church concept. Thanks John and Kyle
Thanks for this interview. My wife and I have been part of a house church for the last five years, and so much of this interview resonates with our own experience. A house church ought to be, as this brother said, an "ecosystem of grace."
To the host thank you for your ability to listen to your guest and your restraint in not trying to compete with him in knowledge,wisdom,insight etc.
To you comment and question about undertone of "control" why there is such a fear and a need for control.
I would like to humbly weigh in on this discussion by saying I think the present church model that we have inherited is based on "hierarchy". And the this model is about human government as a consequence domination becomes its main goal. Jesus specificality taught his followers to be wary of this prideful and divisive spirit when he said:
"But Jesus called them to Himself and said, “You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and those who are great exercise authority over them. Yet it shall not be so among you; but whoever desires to become great among you, let him be your servant."
Secondly, The single pastor model has also added to this dilemma. One man trying to maintain his relevance and pertinence has indeed destroyed the conception of the true liberty with which the offices should function.
A lot more can be said but lots have been said afore what remains for the church to do is to reclaim through humility and prayer the privileged position given to her by God.
God's richest blessings upon you both and to all your listeners and members of the body of Christ Jesus our Lord.
Thank you for this much needed discussion. I appreciate the tone of the conversation and also for dealing with the hard questions.
HC can be interconnected and interdependent and have a global strategy while each one works locally. This is in fact important to address larger issue that affect all of the HCs as a whole. Issues of offerings/salaries/training/dating/housing all fall under this umbrella.
I too have been convicted but reluctant to move out of church for fear of disobeying God when in reality, I would only be leaving the self made authority of man. I have no problem seeking the blessling of others, and my journey away from a corrupted church, as I now understand it, started in 1978. I can no longer be part, bless or even endorse a system that in my mind has done incalculable damage to Christ's body by misplaced authority, the separation of minister and member, and a lost community. Love the show.
doing house church since about 2008...love the fellowships...pretty Biblical, eh? Thanks, John!
Followers of the Way in Boston are taking this to a new level where everyone in the House Church lives close together like on a block. The Anabaptist have been doing this since the 16th century.
Control is just plain not holy Spirit
We are to be led by the spirit
Not controlled by others
How do you put bread on the table? Like everyone else. You do what you can to provide for yourself and your family while doing the right thing. God always provides!
Great point it is the ministers, and then he appoints only people who support "his" beliefs. I agree this is when for unity, we must separate with a blessing
One further comment I wish to make is that you guys have demonstrated a positive attitude in not succumbing to the temptation to make sweeping statements that lead to distracting judgemental statements that only lead to wars of Words, Wills and Feelings.
However; I think you owe it to the keen listener to be very discerning in demonstrating biblically where?how your practices are based so that it does not seem a matter of mere opinion and preference. Albeit I know there will always be naysayers and opposers for even scripture declares that they will be in the last days but it is good to present things from an authoritative biblical point of view.
I hope you understand what I am getting at. Not saying to come across as a Mr. I am-right-and-I-know-it-all but in the same spirit of meekness show where what you do is both the Will of God and the explicit demands of the teachings of Christ and his Apostles.
God richest blessings again.
The Bible is very clear there is no support for the modern Church program
Seems like this particular flavor of house church is the same as small groups within a large church, but forgoing the teaching, music, and fellowship at the unified service and Sunday School, and limiting it to the small groups where there is more learning and fellowship
32:43 This is the kind of narrow thinking that had great consequences on peoples lives. And it is absolutely possible for a single person to lead a church. Our fellowship of churches still do not have vision or find value in those who are not married, unless they are a college student. One thing I do know, is our walk with God is a progression. It's not all revealed at once, lol, and we need to have grace and patience with one another. We also have to realize the feast of life that God has for us and not settle for a life that is not bringing Him glory.
After Francis Chan, gave up his pastoral position at a mega churh, he started a house church. He trained leaders and sent them out. Thise leaders trained leaders within their group and now they have a large network of churches. Its much more effective to have 5000 engaged house church members than to have 5000 spectators gathering in one building. Why do we believe that we have to get buildings to facilitate growth?
I’m trying to wrap my head around how elders, teachers and deacons of legacy churches practically fit into the autonomous House Church model. Also, how do house churches handle growth on a large scale?
I've visited a number of different church groups in past few months to see how they "do church" in an attempt to just learn.
From one group I visited - their house church group is their local church. That's their immediate family (small/life/community) group. They meet together throughout the week and on Sundays. Once a month, however, all the house churches come together for a Sunday service to fellowship and worship. Different members from each house church group meetup over Zoom for more training and help. Members understand they are in the service of God. Members are raised up and trained to take on various roles according to qualifications. When the time is right and the Spirit has made it clear, a new group forms out of another one (this may also include someone from an entirely different house church group joining the newly formed one).
I imagine if they're faithful in the little God entrusts them with, He will allow them to grow and bless them with taking on more and spreading out in their territory. It certainly seems like their approach removes a lot of the safety of the typical legacy church and forces them to have to lean into God more (prayer, reading, meditation, the Spirit). It seems to be working. And I certainly don't have anything against the larger legacy church.
Plurality of elders fits house church. When you realize elders are hands on Shepherds, one for every 15 or 25 people is the ratio. I know a church of 2500 with over 100 elders. If you only manage structure, less works. But not when you walk with your sheep in personal ways.
Also multiply the household churches... it's less complicated to repeat. No cost.
After 15 people, esp 20 to 25 the structure required ratchets up... you end up acting more like a traditional church with a few platformed. Less individual participation is possible.
House churches should have 1 Tim 3 qualified leaders.
That's how we function. 5 churches...
My 2 cents. Been doing this in three countries since 2005, but traditional church plants also.
I guess if it works for the apostles
Romans 16:5 Likewise greet the church that is in their house. Salute my wellbeloved Epaenetus, who is the firstfruits of Achaia unto Christ.
S.O.S.! Beloved faithful churches are dying in Southern California, and on the West Coast in general. We desperately need to find a way forward as we navigate the chaotic times that surround us. How can you help?
This is the way.
Bery interesting video.
Thank you for this much-needed conversation! How do I get into a house church? I'm in Minnesota.
While there are likely existing house churches in your area, God is also calling new groups together. Pray and pay attention to the people God may be calling you to gather with. Blessings.
46:23 - 50:20 ABSOLUTELY!❤
How hard is it to stick to the blueprint... scripture 🤷
Church was never meant to be a business
Seems to me, legacy church needs to be less sermon-centric and more inter-relational, allowing input from everyone and anyone, given today's topic and a good servant-hearted gatekeeper. No church, legacy, small group or house, can function long without oikos.
🙌🙏❤️🤗
I've got a better idea, people gathering in homes to talk about reason, scientific discoveries and making the world a better place.
And you can bring brownies, too.
I'm 50/50 on these thoughts.. in the early biblical church days, people gather in home of course, but only because early Christians were being persecuted by the various kings, etc during that time because they saw Christianity as a new threat. Eventually this "assembly" evolved over the years into a formal Church building where all were welcome to share and learn about the gospel and Jesus Christ. So I understand the reasons for having Church buildings.. It's no different than any other educational facility. People come to learn, and you can't grow your audience in someone's house. Ultimately you will need to expand if you want to spread the gospel. Today, these newer Churches are also looking to focus on the younger generations who also need Christ in their lives, and will ultimately become our future leaders when us old folks leave the planet. That means the tempo and type of music may need to evolve, as well as the message and how it is delivered. Churches need to be more welcoming to these younger folks but without distorting the truth. When I was very young, as a kid I felt like I was obligated to go to Church because my parents did. I would sit there not knowing what to do while my parents read and sang songs for two hours. There were no activities for me and the music seemed boring. Fast forward today, and the kids now have a whole new experience. The music and tempo matches more with modern times, but the message remains the same. They also have classrooms for kids learning the bible with cartoon characters, and biblical movies that everyone could enjoy. I would rather have my teenage children go to these "movie" nights than spend the evening at the local strip mall. This is what we need to support the next generation. Obviously, let's not "institutionalize" it by turning Churches into businesses.. It's about teaching and spreading the gospel, not about generating revenue. A "House Church" environment could be more personal, and potentially a great alternative but a place that can only support 10-30 people could becoming a limiting factor. Once you hit that limit, others who may want to participate will be discouraged and thus find themselves with no place to go.. Those are the ones we need to focus on .
We don't need these old Dead traditions
I love the idea of the House Church but we are doing it all wrong here in America. Sure there has been some limited success but that can happen in any pyramid model. But from what I understand is we have been trying this for 20 years now. I would expect much better results if it is a viable way to continue.
No, and our problem is we are not addressing the core issues in church. We call this Root Cause Analysis. Let's look at David as our example. A great king. A great leader. A great warrior. A great example for a man after God's own heart. He put God first. But he was a horrible father. And he was a horrible grandfather. It is because of him that the kingdom failed. The kingdom divided, worshipped idols, and when their wealth dried up they could no longer pay tributes to other nations and were eventually captured.
Solution to our problem. Start with our normal churches. Yes, we know they are flawed and deeply corrupted. Just hang in with me a moment. The solution is Home Churching your family and kids. Home Church must start with your kids.
Any Believer of 5 years, must be encouraged to start their own Home Church on Saturdays with their family. Each family set aside 1 hour every Saturday to come together for church. Then if there are no kids in your home, start Home Churches with others of your age group and spiritual age group. Anyone who has been a Christian for 5 years is ready to have their own Home Church. On Saturdays. Then go to Sunday Church. If everyone will do this, then all the problems we have with our churches will be solved.