I think Godly ki is just another type of ki. Though it cannot be sensed by normal ki users. But that doesnt mean they are always stronger. Take the Supreme Kai, no one in the manga ever managed to scale his power but everyone knew he wasnt that strong (till Dabura at least). I only find it funny is that in BoG Goku said that it was a realm of power unatainable on his own and then Frieza comes in and gets it on his own.
IKevinX I find it funny that it's been a week, and nobody seems to have pounced on you yet, for saying that Supreme Kai is a god just like Beerus, and likely has god ki too. Which incidentally I fully agree with.
In my opinion God ki is just a different type, it has nothing to do with achieving a high enough power level and it's only advantage is that it can't be sensed by mortals. There are also 3 types of ki. Mortal ki - What almost everyone use's and can be sensed by anyone that knows ki sense. Kai ki- What Shin-jin 's (Kais and Kaioshins) they can sense God ki and mortal ki because North Kai and Supreme Kai knew when Beerus woke up and described his energy as (freight train). However their ki can also be sensed by mortals. God ki - What Beerus, Whis, Goku and Vegeta use. It can be sensed by other gods (once they learn how to) and Shin-jin 's
DanDaMaN95cov Its a good way to think of it. compare it to light (electromagnetic radiation)as there are many different wavelengths/types but they are all still the same general thing and have mostly the same behaviors. Something capable of detecting one may not be able to pick up another, like some types of cameras that see infrared but not ultraviolet for example. So you could think of mortal ki as radio waves while godly ki could be like microwaves as it is a more intense wavelength and isn't discernible by a lot of radio technology. That could be a similar situation with mortal ki and mortals being unable to sense this higher energy.
But technically in the first movie didn't king kai sense beerus coming to his planet so if he knew he was coming then maybe godly ki doesn't represent strength but represents the amount of strength one can obtain
I hate how in Japanese culture they really like the idea of a super-prodigy. In almost every anime there is 1 super-prodigy that is much more "powerful" or skilled than the main protagonists and are super arrogant. It's always "that prodigy is so great, he doesn't train a day in his life but kicks everyone's ass.", after not training he gets beat due to his arrogance and starts training. Either he becomes ridiculously powerful/skilled in a short span of time, or he learns his lesson in not being too arrogant, and the series ends.
Dont think he did, he couldnt sense how powerful trunks was when he slayed his ass on earth, even when trunks transformed he didnt realize, he was simply frightened by trunks green eyes
I think godly ki is just a different type. Like how the series Naruto introduced different kinds of chakra. Normal chakra, Tailed Beast Chakra, Senjutsu Chakra, etc. But like those, it doesn't mean it makes them automatically stronger than a person with another type of chakra (The Raikage was said to have Tailed Beast level of chakra, despite not being or actually having Tailed Beast chakra) But back onto god ki. I think fans hype it up to much more than it really is. One guy tried to tell me if Goku reached Super Sayain 100000, he couldn't beat Beerus simply because Goku wasn't god form. I still believe strongly if Goku trained hard enough, he could beat Beerus without SSG or SSGSS. Proof in the pudding is Vegeta vs Beerus. Beerus of course wins, but it shows mortal ki (or whatever you want to call it) can hurt someone with god ki. If you can hurt someone with god ki, you can potentially kill them.
Yeah dude I totally agree with you. And nice connection with the Naruto chakra types. It made easier to understand the idea of the different types of ki.
Involving Freeza again complicates everything. I can't believe people still defend this as if there's nothing wrong with it. The way God Ki, or Divine Ki, was supposed to work was that it was different or "alien" as DBN put it. Goku shrugging off the idea of Fusion working was a definite indicator of this. It clearly means that no matter the amount of Ki, they could not beat a creature using Divine Ki but bringing Freeza back ruins this because Freeza is just more Ki. Also, this means that Freeza went from getting beaten by a regular SSJ to becoming *WAAAAY* more powerful than _even stronger_ SSJs that are fused. *_This power gap difference is insane._* Then there is the _"Freeza never trained"_ statement which is complete bullshit. What about when Freeza forms balls of energy? Or beams of energy? Freeza was actually quite creative with the way he used ki. And what about that time he used telekinesis? All these things take a disciplined and trained mind to do. So does this mean that when Freeza was born, he already had complete control over his energy without shooting it everywhere uncontrollably? That's fucking stupid, it goes against what Freeza originally said on Namek, that his power was too much for him to control. So did Freeza already have complete knowledge and control at birth? If so, why was it limited the way it was? Fuck all of this, it's stupid.
extragirth64 Toriyama did say in an interview that Freiza and his father were mutants of their race and the only ones who were that strong and they were born that powerful. But he never says that Freiza knew all these attacks. In ROF though Freiza says he was a prodigy, this could mean that he only had to put in the minimal effort to learn a ki attack or martial art. Also when he says he never trained it seemed to be in the sense of he never trained to get stronger or increase his power, so like when Goku trained in his spaceship on the way to Namek, he wasn't training to get new skills he was training to get stronger and increase his power. Freiza could have trained to learn new attacks, but never trained to increase his power.
extragirth64 Yeah would have been good to see him train. Maybe with the new DBS series they will have some episodes where they show Freizas training. They really rushed through this Freiza stuff to much, I feel it would have been better if they did it in episodes in a series rather than a movie. Spread it out some more, really build it up.
extragirth64 Always nice to see people acknowledge just how crazy Frieza's jump in power is. Within 4 months he went from being weaker than a newly transformed Super Saiyan to being far beyond a Super Saiyan 3. That's dumb as hell honestly.
if frieza trained enough to become as strong as a god, then how come he was afraid of a super saiyan? he could have trained and the dbz show would end on planet namek
Dragon Ball Nation Do you think that we'll see more SSJGSSJ forms, but more importantly will they actually mean anything? You and I discussed before how SSJGSSJ could not have the 50x base power multiplier anymore due to the facts that we see in BoG and RoF.
+Brendan ssjgss is just accessing god via the ssj transformation. It can't be a multiplier, as this means Goku and Vegeta would be above Beerus when transformed.
***** There wont be anymore SSGSS forms as they aren't going to go passed the Super Saiyan form period anymore, this means Super Saiyan 2 and 3 are now history as well
I think God ki is stupid because Non-Gods are able to acquire it. Only Gods should have God-Ki, hence the name: God Ki. The fact that Frieza increased his power so much in a short time shows just how stupid it really is. I haven't seen Dragonball Super yet, so I'm not judging it but if it keeps going in this direction, it will be worse than GT.
+Erick Santos To be fair, the God Ki was mouth off by fans like it is canon. In BOG they just say mortals cannot sense the Ki of a God. For all you know, there are different types of normal Ki and godly ki. Beerus' aura is different from SSJG Goku so until there is confirmation that Beerus and Goku SSJG has same kind of Ki, it would remain a theory. Beerus is the strongest being in the Universe. Whis is his teacher and there are like 12 different Universes Goku's body absorbed some of the remaining SSJG power which made him stronger in his base form. SSJG according to Super, is just like a Saiyan. Its powers need to be learned and drawn out thus increasingly getting stronger each time Beerus overwhelm Goku. Frieza's power increase is just a very simple fact. In real life there are people who are like that. You spend a whole year trying to learn something, only to see a prodigy comes out 1 year later and advanced beyond your standard like nobody's business. Frieza's outrageous growth is one such example.
I am on the same tip. We still do not know how strong it really is. if Beerus, no transformation or anything, can beat SSJG easily? That means that SSJG SSJGSS may be a better fight, but that still does not account for Beerus' race to try. And the training part, So Frieza went from not being able to stop a regular super saiyan. To being able to fight a SSJGSS in four months. And what happened to Cooler. He was stronger than Frieza and transformed past his brother's. Too many holes for the best animated series, foreign and domestic.
Very good topic, is say godly ki, is something we aren't used to. It's...just how piccolo sensed supreme Kai. It's otherwordly and yeah. It opens up Db, it's such a rare thing. Good topic, loving it.
Wasn't Cell's search for the Androids pointless? He had Frieza's cells and was way stronger than him. If Imperfect Cell trained for 4 months, he could've been as strong as Whis or something and stomp everyone with Toriyama's asspull logic.
***** A prodigy who sit on a chair during most of his life. What? You mean he magically found the best way to train like a pro when he never moved his ass during his entire life?
Crimson Sunbird A Saiyan and a Human can both train side by side but a Saiyan will grow far stronger a lot faster, its due to how their race is. We don't know how Frieza race is but we do know that he wasn't even a normal compared to his own race and on top of that he was a prodigy. I still think him getting that strong in four months is crazy but I chalk that up to his new form as we saw that Final Form Frieza wasn't even a match for Base Goku.
***** Cell also isn't normal compared to Frieza's race because, you know, he's his clone, he has Frieza's cells. He also was a born prodigy even stronger than a Super Saiyan. He's like an improved version of Frieza. It's like comparing Mewtwo to Mew.
The analogy that came to my mind was the electromagnetic spectrum. We can see a very narrow band of that spectrum with our eyes, while the rest is undetectable. If normal ki fell within the "visible light spectrum" of ki, then god ki might be outside of it. Perhaps until you have adequate training, or perhaps forever if you don't possess it yourself.
Agree with what's been said about there being mortal ki, Kai ki, and God ki. And to make it as simplistic as possible. Godly ki simply doesn't run out. If you remember when Goku and Vegeta are in that other dimension where they can't move until they learn how to not release their ki. After that they learn to obtain the ssg and ssgss forms on their own.
TheJadeFist He does not have any knowledge of the skill. If he truly sensed power levels, then he would have known his army would be crushed by the Z Warriors. It would make the battle on Earth much darker as he killed his men for failing. He also would have noticed his falling power level would be too low to fight SSGSS Goku, but instead he was shocked to see he was too weak to harm Goku.
Julien Maurel that laser beam came off as more of a contradiction to the entire series. It should have bounced right off him, given Goku's training, sensing abilities and just plain endurance,... the whole thing reeked of bad writing imo. I think Awesome Card Games has a good point.
After the movie return of F and what you said about frieza's power, I don't understand why they called the form Goku and Vegeta got SSGSS. I say this cause goku said to frieza that he taped into the power of a SSG, this is telling me that SSGSS isn't actually a SSG at all. it's just a new SSJ form with the equivalent power of SSG. So SSGSS is pretty much Akira's official SSJ 4 if you ask me. Just my theory though you don't have to agree and am probably talking nonsense. XD
I'm not getting into the SSJ4 and SSJ God debate. BUT...I'd like to see them show SSJ4 be stated as the demonic side of the SSJ God level. It would, in general, make sense since the attitudes changes greatly.
I think God Ki is simply a different type of ki that can't be sensed because it isn't like normal ki, but like a transcendent type of ki. I also think it can be achieved through Whis unlocking it for you similarly to Elder Kai Unlock Ability that was done to Gohan, which would make you a lot stronger. So I think that would make sense...
It's kind of a funny thing how many deities appaear in the whole DB series. At first, in Db we were told there was a God Protector of Earth, which was Kami, and a Demon King, which was Piccolo. Then DBZ came in and we found out there was King Yamma above Kami and King Kai above Yamma. later on we found out there were 4 Kais and a Grand Kai above them. Then we met the Supreme Kais and the Ancient Supreme Kai. We go further to Battle of Gods and we meet Beerus and Wiis and in DB Super we meet Champa. My question is, how many gods are there in DB and how many more are we gonna see? Will it be done with the Gods of Destruction?
It sounds like it kinda low how angels are in The World Ends With You, Godly Ki seems like it on a higher wavelength so people of the normal wavelengths can't sense it but the gods can sense the ones lower them them
I think, the difference between mortal and god ki is that god ki is a higher dimensional energy. Referencing what Aizen explained in an episode of Bleach (assuming similarities), 2-dimensional beings cannot interact with 3-dimensional beings unless the higher dimensional being were to deliberately lower themselves to the levels of lower dimensional beings. In addition, the higher dimensional being would tend to seem godly to lower dimensional beings thanks in part to their access to extra dimensions. Regardless of the amount of power a mortal may possess, if the mortal is unfamiliar with the nature of god ki they can't do much to counter it. A god ki user is just as overwhelmingly powerful in comparison to a normal ki user, much like how non ki users can easily be defeated by normal ki users.
If god ki can't be sensed, how was piccolo able to sense supreme Kaia power during the buu saga at the tournament? He may not have been able to sense how strong he was but he definatley sensed he was a god.
perhaps there is an intergalactic pool of God Energy across the different universes, which any form of god, or deity (including Goku and Vegeta) are able to tap into, and use as a source of energy? Kind of like The Speed Force with The Flash???
i remember in dragon ball super beerus mentioned something implying as if he didn't even use Ki, as if he was at such a high level that Ki wasn't even what fueled his immense power
Cmon like they cant sense god key because its to big to sense like when sound is louder and more squeaky it soon stops because its to loud for us to hear
Hey good vid, just one issue. Saying Frieza couldn't sense ki as the evidence he had no God ki doesn't really work. Frieza could never sense ki. It was one of his weaknesses.
*friezas power level theory* (only based on stated facts in the anime) base-500k 2nd-1M 3rd-2M(assume doubles again) 4th 100%-200.000.000 (clearly stronger then 3rd but still 1% so if we multiply by 100...but this numbers excluding the extra power he had at first) 2 hundred million power. is that wrong? based on information we do actually have it seems legit so his 3rd to 4th form gave him a 100x times who knows how much golden frieza gave him. *during the movie he mentioned a power level tho it was billion not million* *1.300.000.000* but the problem with either one is that we don't know which form he is talking about... does he mean he will have that power in base form,final form or his new golden form? he was in his base form at the time and said he was weaker then before. so if we assume he meant that and somehow could reach that amount... Base=1.300.000.000 2nd=2.600.000.000 3rd=5.200.000.000 final 100%=520.000.000.000 So if we assume he meant his base power would be around that...his final form (not golden frieza) would be at 520 trillion power. you can only speculate the boost from his new form so theory stops there.
I think two theories. 1 is that godly ki is something that certain people are plain born with, such as Beerus and Whis. On the other hand, godly ki is something that can be obtained through a ritual and transformation f.e. Super Saiyan God, or through certain point in training.
What about in Battle of Gods when Goku uses instant transmission to fight Beerus?? And in Revival F he can't use instant transmission to get the Whis and Beerus but he did during Battle of Gods???
I believe the Godly Ki is just a different power source completely. As Beerus mentioned to Vegeta in BOG that deities such as himself do not draw their energy from the same source as Vegeta, Goku, etc. So maybe the Godly Ki power source has much more potential to reach than the generic power source (Ki) as the regular Z fighters are used to. I think this because once Goku experienced SSJG for he also learned and became familiar with the Godly Ki. He then learned how to somewhat harness that power and its new potential. Thus applying it to his regular base form, making him much stronger as Beerus mentioned at the end of the fight.
I wonder if Saiyans can get to the same level of power as a SSG without the ritual or the ritual is required and without SSG there is a hard barrier that you can't pass with training? My opinion on the godly ki not being able to be sensed is because it is on an order of magnitude so much bigger that it would be like the background radiation of the universe and therefore not be able to be conventionally sensed.
I don't think there's any power requirement for the godly ki and that Goku and the others couldn't sense it simply because it was a kind of ki that they were unfamiliar with (alien, as you said). However, it's shown that the kais can all sense it, not much of a stretch to think that they likely have both kinds of ki. It raises the question, though, of how godly ki is different from mortal ki.
What a dumb title for a video. Not even gonna watch the entire thing. Frieza just trained for 4 months and pimped himself out with gold plates, that's it. He's not a god, he doesn't have god ki. But I bet if he had trained for like 2 years, instead of 4 months, he could've probably solo'd Beerus and Whis.
Slakkon McCathy That's a good point too. Frieza has some serious potential. If he knew about the hyperbolic timechamber, and had something similar made for by his henchmen, shit would be over...
+GrimHadez Frieza does say in the movie that his father told him to never challenge Boo or Beerus so he obviously knew that he had limits to his power. Also we never see Beerus or whis at the peek of their power so we don't know exactly how large their power is...
Mega Ampharos Frieza was most likely significantly weaker at that point in time to be able to stand a chance against Buu or Beerus, so it's understandable for him to not try anything... But since he's able to get near a godly level of ki in only a matter of months, that shows his potential. It's true that we've never seen Whis or Beerus at full power but in BoG, when Beerus fought Goku, if I remember correctly, he said he went 80% which is almost close to full power.
Adam s gokus power level doesnt increase by 50 anyways ? gokus power in dragonball seemed to get 100x greater but he never made it past the 100's doing 50x the amount of destruction or 50x power increase arent the same thing as chi x 50.
Well ssj is a 50x multiplier which means gokus new form in the movie isn't the same. Cuz he's still weaker than beerus and even in bog beerus was only 30% stronger
He didn't. He just liked that Goku was able to give him a good fight. Essentially it's a cliche way of Goku losing but making an anti hero friend who's stronger than he is but will keep him alive to have a rival.
god Ki is the ultimate form of ki. It gives the user untold power. However, as seen with golden ultimate evolution frieza, it does not mean that someone with god ki can not be beaten. or harmed.
Goku couldn't tell how strong Kaioshin, old Kaioshin and kibitz is in Buu saga. He tried to fire a blast at old Kaioshin to test while normally he can detect even the potential of a person (as whether someone is showing true power or not). So it is... Consistent?
I don't know myself how to interprete this but it should be noticed: In DB super dende was able to recognize at least some kind of ki from beerus which he was unfamiliar of though. Meaning: Dende (which is basicaly a god) has god ki yet is not a fighter and therefore not strong. Yet in buu saga after everyone on earth has been killed by super buu gohan was able to sense dende after he had escaped thanks to that black aladdin guy (forgot his name. popo was it? no idea.)
I think the reason characters can't sense godly ki is for the reason you said, it's a different type of energy.The z fighters have the ability to sense ki (life energy) and that's it, they don't have the ability to sense all forms of energy. Just like they couldn't sense the power level of the robotic androids, they can't sense god ki because it's not the same type of life energy. It's simply something else. So while the beings that use it tend to be inherently stronger than normal life-forms, I don't think that god ki is automatically superior to regular ki. An incredibly powerful user of regular ki could be stronger than a being that uses god ki, even if they couldn't sense the different energy. I think Frieza is probably an example of this, though I wouldn't be surprised if he still hadn't learned to sense regular ki.
All I know is that vegito is stronger than all these "gods". I think it is another type of ki, but it does not represent ultimate power, those who have it just represent themselves as gods. There may be a way to get it through rituals or something, but idk. It would be interesting if this is what happened when you asked for the ultimate power for the dragon, but I believe it would be impossible for the dragon balls to have been used. Oh well.
***** Of course, normal fusion does not result in vegito, it results in gogeto... And their difference in power is SO different. They destroyed their earings to become vegito.
***** Idk man, that seems pretty cliche. The only thing stopping vegito is lack of oxigen, because low or high pressures, he is acustumed to. At least his body should be.
German Eagle Goku said that Fusion would not be enough to stop Beerus. Really this says more about how stronger Freeza apparently became after training for four months and ascending again. Going from being beaten by a regular SSJ to becoming *WAY* more powerful than even stronger SSJs that fuse... why Toriyama? This sounds so wrong. I suppose this also says a lot about how powerful Freeza was when we first saw him. Those power level charts people come up with where they make Goku and Freeza around the same level are completely wrong. Remember, power levels are not the deciding factor, there is also training and technique. Who knows how powerful Freeza was relative to Goku. Could be 10 times. Could be 100 times.
extragirth64 Like I said, this is not a contradiction, He did not have the rings, so the only way possible to do a fusion is by turning into gogeto. Which is much weaker than vegeto. I don't have alot of thoughts together on the whole getting alot more powerful. Since I still don't understand alot about how he works. Like sayans, when they come close to dieing, they get a zenkai boost, freeza may have something similar to that, but different.
German Eagle The way Goku just shrugged off the idea of Fusion in _Battle of Gods_ says a lot more than you give it credit. If it would even give them remotely closer power to battle Beerus, then Goku would not just dismiss Fusion the way he did. Unless Fusion with the earrings is twice or three times as good as Fusion dance then I say your assumption is way off. However I am certain the two types of Fusion are the same, with one having slightly less power and only lasting 1/2 hour.
i think godly ki is different and can be used/manipulated more freely because in battle of gods the way beerus and goku flew during there fight was more freely than normal but in most of dragonball z when they flew and seem to mostly straight instead of being able to go in any direction but i don't know yet and i hope they expand up on the subject
I think Godly Ki would requirement more information. Because as from the Battle of Gods movie, it leads us to think that the only way to defeat a God is to also be a God. But Buu killed a few Kais and Kais are Gods, meaning they have Godly Ki. Meaning, one does not need to be a God to defeat one, but only needs to be one to sense one.
the real question is: how does SSJ4 and SSJG compare? even though SSJ4 isn't cannon. the god form makes sense, otherwise, for the series to continue, there just be more SSJ forms up until 100 and it would just get silly.
Just a question here, no hurtful comments please, but are the Kais considered gods or to have godly ki? Of so, mortal ki has already demonstrated the power to kill gods. Cell exploded and killed King Kai after all. Besides that, it seems to be similar to magic in relation to mortal ki: a different type of energy that, like mortal ki, can be used to do practically anything.
Yo Dragonball Nation my theorie is that everyone has God Ki inside them they just don't know it and can't sense it within them it has to be unlocked in one way or another
I'm not as knowledgeable as id like about DBZ, but I feel like godly ki is either dished out by some ethereal being far surpassing the rest of the universe by an unimaginable degree, or a ritual such as the super sayain god transformation is required.
god kai is when you get a large amount of kai. like of example w all the sayain gave goku the power to reach it however freazer was with alot of power so he come reach that power.
i think that it gives you such an advantage over opponents, but not to the extent that you automatically win. Like how frieza could not sense ki on namek, that gave goku an advantage, but it didnt mean goku would win. Same thing here, godly ki allows you to not be sensed unless by another god.
+dragon ball nation I think the godly ki can't be sensed because the power levels but also because most the characters that can sense ki are unfamiliar with that type of ki.
Okay it's pretty confusing. I feel like you can't obtain the status of being a god but you can be so strong that you can be on the level of strength that a god has. It's like once you get to a certain strength, you enter a new level of Ki; Godly Ki. Dragon Ball Nation
How come they don't show ss4 in the dbz series or go in that mode? New series u only see ss3 then straight into ss god?? Even in movie goku didn't go ss4?
It's quite simply a completely different type of energy. I believe Supreme Kai and Elder Kai also have Godly Ki, as I don't think anyone could sense them either.Fact in other world it was Gohans Ki that Goku could sense in the Buu Saga.
+Dragon Ball Nation i know he couldn't achieve ssg or ssgss through sheer training i was just a little irritated u took vegeta as an example (ok actually u also took goku) cuz they both already have achieved god ki, no matter how but i know it sounded like i wanted to say that vegeta reached god level through sheer training but i don't think anyone could do this i think god ki is a separately other level of ki (sry for bad english)
My thought is that godly ki is a whole other type of energy which mortals cannot sense since they are not on that level of not power, but existence itself. Note that the original sayian god was composed of basic level sayians, likely only in the hundreds or low thousands. That god still gained those attributes. As well, consider that even though someone like King Yemna is clearly far weaker physically and in terms of ki than someone like frieza or cell, and yet he has divine authority which can override their huge powers. There is a hierarchy of existence and gods exist on a level mortals, no matter how powerful, are simply not privy to.
Godly ki is definitely a separate ki, it's a god's form of power but it is technically no different from regular ki As far as it's been shown. One thing I could think of is that it is able to allow the user to use considerably more powerful versions of their pre existing abilities [Kamehameha Rebirth and God Kamehameha] The only reason Frieza was able to combat Goku is because he was just at an extreme power level, it did not mean he was a god. He just had the same power level as Goku with the disadvantage of not being able to sense him, which can be used as an advantage to goku to beat him down.
Freeza can't sense energy anyway lol.. So good catch on your part. I don't think he has the mentality to even care to learn to sense energy. edit: I think it is just a different type of ki entirely. It's alien to them. That's what I think, personally.
From what I remember from Battle of Gods, once Goku dropped from his god form in his fight with Beerus he actually did better. So are we to assume that Goku in his regular Super Saiyan form is more powerful than he is in his God form? This leads me to believe that Godly ki just a different type of power entirely, not something that is necessarily stronger than regular ki.
***** Yeah i can see where your coming from but actually he only was only barely keeping up because he retained a small portion of that Ki also when Beerus and Goku fought in the cave under the lake when he lost his Godly-Ki he became several times slower then Beerus and only keep up using instant transmission but at times Beerus was still able to pin point his location to strike him (which i thought was bullshit because how do you keep up with something that is instant which is faster then light but topic for a different day) Beerus in the movie also commented on he drop back to a normal SSJ but still has a reminsice of God like Ki furthermore instant transmission and Goku being a natural genius for combat his body remember the power of it retaining the ki to power up his current form so Godly KI is stronger then regular ki its on a whole different level
His God form just ran out but he'd absorbed the residual energy into his SSJ form which is why he could keep fighting. In RF, they access SSJG via the SSJ form, so this makes sense to the Saiyans retaining God ki after the ritual.
Just a point, every one of the Kais is a god, and everyone can sense their energy, does this mean that Beerus and Whis are at the near top of some dietal totem pole, or, because they are immortal, are they on some higher level as dieties. Also, it's movie canon, but Garlic Jr. was immortal, but was still able to be sensed, so would it be a mix of Diety and immortality.
I think Godly Ki is a completely different ki altogether; there's regular ki, and there's Godly Ki. It's kinda like trying to measure the length of a table with mL; it simply cannot be done because they are 2 completely different ki reserves. In this sense, Gohan would not be able to amass enough power to content with Beerus; he'd have to undergo the same ritual Goku did to step into "Godhood".
Here's how I kinda envision the difference between regular and god ki: Say we had 2 beings with a power scale of 10 in terms of normal ki Now lets take one of the beings and instill within him god ki While both beings are still at a power scale of 10, the numbers that represent the god ki are basically a completely different set of numerical units that transcends our understanding of quantity. In other words, our 10=/= a gods 10 Another way to think about is it compare Alchemy and Science. Though, at some points, they share similar properties, by they are by no means the same thing. They're two completely different objects that can have some lines drawn between them.
My theory on this is that Godly Ki is something that you learn how to acquire in one way or another OR it could be passed down in either a ritual or genetically. The reason the z warriors can't sense it, is because they've been training and using the ability to sense regular Ki their entire lives. They haven't yet learn how to sense God ki because no one has taught them. But I do however believe that it is possible to eventually with some training sense God Ki just like it took time to learn how to sense regular Ki. In my opinion it would be a different yet similar technique.
I mean, it has been shown that is not like is something "beyond" every other form of power. If anything it has allowed the sayans to go beyond their own bodies limits. While out there are creatures and people who are still stronger without having god ki, can you imagine if Jiren got god ki? The guy would have blinked and don't even UI Goku would have stood a chance.
This maybe just a hypothesis.. but I think *god chi has some form of magical or divine properties as opposed to normal chi*. Maybe its just a difference in attributes but I think, *god chi does not exactly define that it is powerful than normal chi* as what many have believed. Here's why I think: 1) *god chi cannot be felt by normal chi users*: -- Obviously, this put the god chi an advantage over normal chi. We all know that *Fighters in the Dragon Ball realm amplifies their stats using chi in which they use to transcend physical attributes* - this is from: *amplifying their visions, reaction time and other senses* as well as *enhancing their physical strength and speed* up to *firing destructive blasts that can destroy anything* depending on the *amount on Chi* that someone possess _(which I believed measured in Power Levels)_. *But if God chi cannot be felt and cannot be sensed at the same time, how will you be able to fight back*? Clearly, its hard to fight back when you cannot hardly sense an upcoming attack. 2) *Only gods can sense gods*. -- This is proven by the Dragon Ball Super manga "Goku's loss", that kaios can sense Beerus despite them being weaker than Majin Buu. Even though Majin Buu can easily obliterate their existence, does this prove that god chi is not as powerful as what we expect? I have a feeling that having god chi does not point that a character is already stronger right away to character B. 3) *Normal chi can go on par with god chi if the user has enormous chi to fight back* -- Using Majin Buu as an example and the Kaios that Majin Buu can easily obliterate during the DBZ series, I think normal chi can put a fight with god chi if you have enough normal chi to fight back. But the user should have an enormous amount of normal chi: like for example: 10 normal chi = 1 god chi.. this means that if the normal chi is too strong, it can put a fight with someone who has a god chi. - This hypothesis of mine is proven by Frieza that normal chi can put a fight with god chi if you have enough chi to put a fight with someone who has god chi. _Unless later on, it will be explained in later DB Super series episode that Frieza has somewhat achieved god chi somewhere, then this hypothesis will be proven wrong_. 4) *god chi may have some attributes that may alter realities*. -- As proven by the Kaios, the god of creation as opposed to Beerus as a god of destruction, showing the concept of destruction and creation, *it seems that god chi allows them to create from nothingness since kaios are the god of creation*, is god chi has some attributes that allows them to perform creations? I think _(for now)_ *yes* as chi is the source of power in Dragon Ball realm. This is the power source that I believe allow the Kaios to create from objects out of the nowhere _(like how kibito summoned a block to Gohan which caused the Z-sword to break and how Kibito alters Gohan's suit into like his dad prior to his fight with Majin Buu)_.. Also, *Whis can manipulate time and revert it back at maximum of three minutes* and since *chi are the power source in the DB realm, is it possible that Whis is using god chi to revert back time? At the end, these are just *hypothesis with our current information about god chi as opposed to normal chi users*, we still need to watch Dragon Ball Super in order to learn more about god chi.. I'm pretty sure that this will be explained further _(hopefully)_. But as of now, this is what I understand about the difference of god chi over normal chi. I hope DB Super will explain this further about the chi differences.
When Goku transformed into a god he said he was disappointed that there was this level of power that he *could not reach on his own*. I think the Battle of Gods movie strongly implied that there was a hard limit he had reached without attaining godly ki. That is- a Saiyan can only get so strong without godly ki - Frieza's race might be a different story. But this is Dragon Ball so nothing is written in stone.
Just to clarify. In the ancient japanese culture ki is cultivated through training. It is actually a physical power. Ki/chi/mana/prana is an inner strength and the life force that permeates the universe...but there is another power that is different. It is called "shen". The spiritual force higher then ki. It does not have the same properties nor does it come from the same place...search up "shen" to learn more about it. This will give you solid answers and insight into what the man was thinking, as well probably raise new questions within you...add me on facebook. Emel ballatan. Namaste :-)
I think it's so efficient it doesn't resonate energy, and the only reason other people with God Ki can recognize it, is because they can compare it to themselves.
Ivan Ereiz So? Freeza was orders of magnitude weaker than Goku -- who attained the SSJG transformation -- when he (Freeza) was resurrected. However, after his resurrection, Freeza was able to achieve a power that rivaled even that of Goku -- who then attained the SSJGSS transformation -- in just four months of training. It was stated -- or speculated -- by someone that Akira Toriyama stated that the only reason Freeza became so powerful was because Freeza became the God of Destruction of one of the other 12 universes in "Dragonball," potentially after being trained by another God of Destruction -- potentially Champa. This makes sense, since the only method witnessed so far for attaining the power of Godly ki is through a ritual. Regarding the Original Super Saiyan: When the Original Super Saiyan could not maintain the power of the Super Saiyan transformation duirng 1,000 years before the events of "Dragonball," the Original Super Saiyan simply disappeared in an explosion because of the amount of ki. Since there was no physical corpse left after the explosion, it could be speculated that the Original Super Saiyan did not die from the explosion, and was transported to another universe. This would be similar to howBardock was transported back in time within the same universe in the one one film, despite the film being non-canon. In this other universe, the Original Super Saiyan could have been trained by another God of Destruction to attain Godly ki through a ritual. Also, the Original Super Saiyan could have attained immortality back then, and would still be alive during the events of "Dragonball: Super." Regarding the Original Super Saiyan God, it also stated that the Original Super Saiyan God vanished after attempting to defeat the other evil Saiyans. The Original Super Saiyan God could have been transported to another one of the 12 universes due to the vanishing of the Original Super Saiyan God. There, the Original Super Saiyan God could have attained immortality in that other universe, and was able to train for that amount of time before the events of "Dragonball: Super." It is not specified how long ago the Original Super Saiyan God attained the SSJG transformation. It could have been before or after the Original Super Saiyan came and vanished; however, all is known that it occurred centuries ago. Also, why do you think that the Original Super Saiyan God was at all weak? It was stated that an interviewer asked Akira Toriyama what would happen if Vegito or Gogeta attained the SSJ3 transformation. Would SSJ3 Vegito or SSJ3 Gogeta be just as strong or stronger than SSJG Goku? Toriyama answered by stating that there is an absolute limit as to how much normal ki can be increased before the normal ki explodes the user -- such as exploding from the increasing amount ki, as was the case as the Original Super Saiyan -- thereby killing the user. If either Vegito or Gogeta were able to attain the SSJ3 transformation, the ki would be right at or above that absolute limit for normal ki. As a result, the body of either SSJ3 Vegito or SSJ3 Gogeta would be so saturated with normal ki that either of their bodies would explode -- killing either of them. Only through attaining Godly ki would an user be able control and maintain ki at or above that absolute limit without exploding and dying. This is the reason why a ritual was employed to even attain the SSJG transformation. It was the only method to overcome that absolute limit. With this stated, this signifies that an user who possesses Godly ki is already at or above that absolute limit for ki. Therefore, it is irrelevant as to how high the powerlevel of the user was before attaining Godly ki, because Godly ki can only be attained through the performance of a ritual. The user could have a powerlevel of 1 before performing that ritual, and still achieve Godly ki after the performing that ritual. This signifies that the Original Super Saiyan God was indeed at or above that absolute limit. Therefore, the Original Super Saiyan God might not have been as powerful as Goku when he (Goku) attained the SSJG transformation, because Goku already possessed an immense normal ki before attaining it. However, both needed to perform the ritual to overcome that absolute limit for ki. Since the Original Super Saiyan God vanished centuries before the events of "Dragonball," the Original Super Saiyan God might have been transported to another of the 12 universe where the Original Super Saiyan God attained immortality, became a God of Destruction, and trained to become more powerful for centuries since then.
Thedoctor19000 do you even watch the movie? Golden Frieza was not even on par with both SSGSS Goku and Vegeta. Frieza obtained the Golden form through training by himself. no god helped him like at all.
***** Yes, I did watch the film. It was never specified what type of training Freeza did to attain that Golden transformation, despite him training for only four months when he never trained in his entire life before then. That is why someone asked Akira Toriyama about that very subject of how Freeza trained to become so powerful in just four months, and he (Toriyama) apparently answered it. If you have an issue with that, take it up with Toriyama. Also, yes, Golden Freeza was on par, if not more powerful than SSJGSS Goku, at the very beginning of the Golden transformation. The only reason Golden Freeza lost to SSJGSS Goku because Freeza only attained the Golden transformation and did not train in the form to become conditioned to its effect of immense draining of energy and stamina. As the fight progressed, Freeza in the Golden form simply consumed an immense amount of his energy and stamina. This made Freeza not as powerful as the fight progressed. That is why Goku exploited this weakness to ultimately overcome him.
Thedoctor19000 eep, i love your theory on the Original Super Saiyan God! That would be an awesome battle (except it wouldn't because... Dragonball), as (s)he'd be wise and old and has loads of experience! It would be really amazing to see and a very worthy opponent!
I don't think Goku and Vegeta could have gotten that strong just by training. I think that was the reason why Goku was so upset about becoming SSG. He knows he was at his limit and needed outside help to get stronger.
3oct1111 That is not the case What the Elder Kai did was make Gohans base power equal to the power he would have had if he went Super Saiyan 3, or that is what I have been led to believe.
Possibly, I personally think Mystic Sayian is more like hyper efficient super Sayian useing the same concept of full power but taken to the extreme for no wasted energy for things like the hair or eye color changes. But multiple theories make for a good discussion.
3oct1111 Multiple theories make for wonderful conversations~ I must rebuttal, however. The Mystic form truly has nothing to do with being a Super Saiyan, just the inner potential of the being who has turned "Mystic". Since Gohan has Saiyan blood, his full saiyan potential (At the time) was SSJ3. Now, I know I said Mystic has nothing to do with the SSJ transformations, but the highest potential for saiyans lies within the power of their transformations, if that makes sense.
I heard the real translation always was ultimate gohan, so mystic was Just put in for english dub i think mainly bcuz the old kai unlocked gohans power. But its actually supposed to be ultimate gohan which makes sense bcuz all of gohans potential was unlocked, and we already knew gohan had this great power in him and wasnt fully out. Mystic is Just bad dubbing or for money msking purposes. All old kai did was bring out all of gohans power he already had in him. Which would mean if goku had all his potential unlocked by old kai he would be weaker than gohan still bcuz gohan always had greater power than goku but was hidden. I Just don't get why he cant be ssj ultimate gohan? Ssj should Just boost his base power which is now ultimate and final form gohan as a non ssj.
i believe they can't sense the God Ki because it is on a different (for lack of a better word) frequency than normal Ki. The Z warriors tune into the frequency of normal Ki but don't know how to tune into the God Ki
i'm pretty sure king kai said he was sensing beerus'z aproach, so that means the z fighters simply did not know how to sense deity, because they did not need to before.
Yamato Tenzou i believe godly ki i something similar to yuyu hakuso's spirit energy and demon energy thing. it's a different type of ki wich needs diferent type of training to sense.. that's my theory on this. don't hate my english xD
Maybe God ki is the ultimate Kaio ken, but mastered in full potential with no drawbacks when unlocked in a mystical way. Like wishes of dragonballs it must have rules.
Such things as a sayan god are simply surprise elements to keep fans watching the old formula. Next thing you know Goku will be able to turn back time in order to be a step ahead of the opponent.
God ki might have just gotten harder to explain. Goku can still turn regular super saiyan which begs the question of how powerful he is without God ki and what the benefits of God Ki. In terms of benefits the first saiyan god transformation, going by the anime, had more benefits which are yet to be seen in super saiyan blue. Judging again by the anime it is at least much more dense than regular ki
You should've titled this video: SUPER SAIYAN GOD VEGETA 2 VS. GOD FRIEZA BATTLE OF GODS 2 SUPER SAIYAN 4 BROLY CONFIRMED FOR SUPER??
This sounds familiar.... maybe if you just added 20 more question marks....
Savage Saiyan :)
+Geekdom101 *cough* double4anime *cough* Sorry i meant to say Double4anime
I think Godly ki is just another type of ki. Though it cannot be sensed by normal ki users. But that doesnt mean they are always stronger. Take the Supreme Kai, no one in the manga ever managed to scale his power but everyone knew he wasnt that strong (till Dabura at least).
I only find it funny is that in BoG Goku said that it was a realm of power unatainable on his own and then Frieza comes in and gets it on his own.
IKevinX I find it funny that it's been a week, and nobody seems to have pounced on you yet, for saying that Supreme Kai is a god just like Beerus, and likely has god ki too.
Which incidentally I fully agree with.
BlueUncia I had already given up on the reply. Thanks for noticing. As for agreeing aswell.. It's hard when it comes to DBZ xD
In my opinion God ki is just a different type, it has nothing to do with achieving a high enough power level and it's only advantage is that it can't be sensed by mortals. There are also 3 types of ki.
Mortal ki - What almost everyone use's and can be sensed by anyone that knows ki sense.
Kai ki- What Shin-jin 's (Kais and Kaioshins) they can sense God ki and mortal ki because North Kai and Supreme Kai knew when Beerus woke up and described his energy as (freight train). However their ki can also be sensed by mortals.
God ki - What Beerus, Whis, Goku and Vegeta use. It can be sensed by other gods (once they learn how to) and Shin-jin 's
DanDaMaN95cov wow gg
yarol thygod gg?
DanDaMaN95cov lol
DanDaMaN95cov Its a good way to think of it. compare it to light (electromagnetic radiation)as there are many different wavelengths/types but they are all still the same general thing and have mostly the same behaviors. Something capable of detecting one may not be able to pick up another, like some types of cameras that see infrared but not ultraviolet for example. So you could think of mortal ki as radio waves while godly ki could be like microwaves as it is a more intense wavelength and isn't discernible by a lot of radio technology. That could be a similar situation with mortal ki and mortals being unable to sense this higher energy.
But technically in the first movie didn't king kai sense beerus coming to his planet so if he knew he was coming then maybe godly ki doesn't represent strength but represents the amount of strength one can obtain
If frieza can reach god like powers in 4 months - every frieza race in xenoverse should be unstoppable.
***** His father told him about buu.
***** Frieza was a prodigie, and was much stronger than the average member of his race. It probably also meant that he had that form
sea strider how convenient.
***** This isn't a new thing
sea strider i dont remember it from manga or anime.
I hate how in Japanese culture they really like the idea of a super-prodigy. In almost every anime there is 1 super-prodigy that is much more "powerful" or skilled than the main protagonists and are super arrogant. It's always "that prodigy is so great, he doesn't train a day in his life but kicks everyone's ass.", after not training he gets beat due to his arrogance and starts training. Either he becomes ridiculously powerful/skilled in a short span of time, or he learns his lesson in not being too arrogant, and the series ends.
+Scarx2gt thats shounen, basically just a genre
+Scarx2gt i hope they give a good reason how frieza got so strong in dragon ball super
I can't wait until Silver Cell appears in the next movie.
+Eric Staples Cellery
+Eric Staples
Already silver (metal) cooler. Too late.
+Ratrone123 cell
+Ratrone123 not cooler lol
Diamond Cell or Obsidian Cell
Frieza can't sense ki, hence the scouters/ how goku could hide in the water and surprise him with the kamehameha blasts etc.
I know that, but I figured by at least training he would pick it up, then again vegeta only learned it because of his trip to earth.
+Dragon Ball Nation You would figure Frieza would have learned it on Namek after a certain point with the massive talent he has
Dont think he did, he couldnt sense how powerful trunks was when he slayed his ass on earth, even when trunks transformed he didnt realize, he was simply frightened by trunks green eyes
I think godly ki is just a different type. Like how the series Naruto introduced different kinds of chakra. Normal chakra, Tailed Beast Chakra, Senjutsu Chakra, etc. But like those, it doesn't mean it makes them automatically stronger than a person with another type of chakra (The Raikage was said to have Tailed Beast level of chakra, despite not being or actually having Tailed Beast chakra)
But back onto god ki. I think fans hype it up to much more than it really is. One guy tried to tell me if Goku reached Super Sayain 100000, he couldn't beat Beerus simply because Goku wasn't god form. I still believe strongly if Goku trained hard enough, he could beat Beerus without SSG or SSGSS. Proof in the pudding is Vegeta vs Beerus. Beerus of course wins, but it shows mortal ki (or whatever you want to call it) can hurt someone with god ki. If you can hurt someone with god ki, you can potentially kill them.
Yeah dude I totally agree with you. And nice connection with the Naruto chakra types. It made easier to understand the idea of the different types of ki.
well said #overrated
Involving Freeza again complicates everything. I can't believe people still defend this as if there's nothing wrong with it. The way God Ki, or Divine Ki, was supposed to work was that it was different or "alien" as DBN put it. Goku shrugging off the idea of Fusion working was a definite indicator of this. It clearly means that no matter the amount of Ki, they could not beat a creature using Divine Ki but bringing Freeza back ruins this because Freeza is just more Ki. Also, this means that Freeza went from getting beaten by a regular SSJ to becoming *WAAAAY* more powerful than _even stronger_ SSJs that are fused. *_This power gap difference is insane._*
Then there is the _"Freeza never trained"_ statement which is complete bullshit. What about when Freeza forms balls of energy? Or beams of energy? Freeza was actually quite creative with the way he used ki. And what about that time he used telekinesis? All these things take a disciplined and trained mind to do. So does this mean that when Freeza was born, he already had complete control over his energy without shooting it everywhere uncontrollably? That's fucking stupid, it goes against what Freeza originally said on Namek, that his power was too much for him to control. So did Freeza already have complete knowledge and control at birth? If so, why was it limited the way it was? Fuck all of this, it's stupid.
extragirth64 Toriyama did say in an interview that Freiza and his father were mutants of their race and the only ones who were that strong and they were born that powerful. But he never says that Freiza knew all these attacks. In ROF though Freiza says he was a prodigy, this could mean that he only had to put in the minimal effort to learn a ki attack or martial art. Also when he says he never trained it seemed to be in the sense of he never trained to get stronger or increase his power, so like when Goku trained in his spaceship on the way to Namek, he wasn't training to get new skills he was training to get stronger and increase his power. Freiza could have trained to learn new attacks, but never trained to increase his power.
Agent Coulson
This would be worth it if they showed Freeza training. Or if the movie was good. All for nothing I guess.
extragirth64 Yeah would have been good to see him train. Maybe with the new DBS series they will have some episodes where they show Freizas training. They really rushed through this Freiza stuff to much, I feel it would have been better if they did it in episodes in a series rather than a movie. Spread it out some more, really build it up.
Agent Coulson
And it might be hilarious to see Freeza train.
extragirth64 Always nice to see people acknowledge just how crazy Frieza's jump in power is. Within 4 months he went from being weaker than a newly transformed Super Saiyan to being far beyond a Super Saiyan 3. That's dumb as hell honestly.
You're so interactive with your subscribers, you've earned my subscription
if frieza trained enough to become as strong as a god, then how come he was afraid of a super saiyan? he could have trained and the dbz show would end on planet namek
He never trained because he never had to until they started going ssj and all those other power ups
Yeah that's right my brilliance inspired this video. 😎
Savage Saiyan you are a smart guy
Savage Saiyan Awesome now peace.
Firnen Oftheages K, leave my post.
nice profile icon did you draw it? lol
-(CoolNinjaBroGuy)-
I guess you haven't been watching dbs.
Dragon Ball Nation Do you think that we'll see more SSJGSSJ forms, but more importantly will they actually mean anything? You and I discussed before how SSJGSSJ could not have the 50x base power multiplier anymore due to the facts that we see in BoG and RoF.
***** more like a 2x increase
djzd I think not. Goku said he infused the Super Saiyan form with God ki. Which means its just a beefed up version of the Super Saiyan form
Goku's new god base form is so powerful i cant see ssgss being more than a x5 multiplier
+Brendan ssjgss is just accessing god via the ssj transformation. It can't be a multiplier, as this means Goku and Vegeta would be above Beerus when transformed.
***** There wont be anymore SSGSS forms as they aren't going to go passed the Super Saiyan form period anymore, this means Super Saiyan 2 and 3 are now history as well
I think God ki is stupid because Non-Gods are able to acquire it. Only Gods should have God-Ki, hence the name: God Ki. The fact that Frieza increased his power so much in a short time shows just how stupid it really is. I haven't seen Dragonball Super yet, so I'm not judging it but if it keeps going in this direction, it will be worse than GT.
+Erick Santos
To be fair, the God Ki was mouth off by fans like it is canon.
In BOG they just say mortals cannot sense the Ki of a God. For all you know, there are different types of normal Ki and godly ki. Beerus' aura is different from SSJG Goku so until there is confirmation that Beerus and Goku SSJG has same kind of Ki, it would remain a theory.
Beerus is the strongest being in the Universe.
Whis is his teacher and there are like 12 different Universes
Goku's body absorbed some of the remaining SSJG power which made him stronger in his base form.
SSJG according to Super, is just like a Saiyan. Its powers need to be learned and drawn out thus increasingly getting stronger each time Beerus overwhelm Goku.
Frieza's power increase is just a very simple fact. In real life there are people who are like that. You spend a whole year trying to learn something, only to see a prodigy comes out 1 year later and advanced beyond your standard like nobody's business.
Frieza's outrageous growth is one such example.
I am on the same tip. We still do not know how strong it really is. if Beerus, no transformation or anything, can beat SSJG easily? That means that SSJG SSJGSS may be a better fight, but that still does not account for Beerus' race to try. And the training part, So Frieza went from not being able to stop a regular super saiyan. To being able to fight a SSJGSS in four months. And what happened to Cooler. He was stronger than Frieza and transformed past his brother's. Too many holes for the best animated series, foreign and domestic.
Aaron Williams that erick guy.
Very good topic, is say godly ki, is something we aren't used to. It's...just how piccolo sensed supreme Kai. It's otherwordly and yeah. It opens up Db, it's such a rare thing. Good topic, loving it.
Wasn't Cell's search for the Androids pointless? He had Frieza's cells and was way stronger than him. If Imperfect Cell trained for 4 months, he could've been as strong as Whis or something and stomp everyone with Toriyama's asspull logic.
Crimson Sunbird not to mention he also had Cold's... And could get stronger by absorbing ordinary people.
Crimson Sunbird Frieza was a prodigy doesn't meant that Cell would be able to do the same.
***** A prodigy who sit on a chair during most of his life. What? You mean he magically found the best way to train like a pro when he never moved his ass during his entire life?
Crimson Sunbird A Saiyan and a Human can both train side by side but a Saiyan will grow far stronger a lot faster, its due to how their race is. We don't know how Frieza race is but we do know that he wasn't even a normal compared to his own race and on top of that he was a prodigy. I still think him getting that strong in four months is crazy but I chalk that up to his new form as we saw that Final Form Frieza wasn't even a match for Base Goku.
***** Cell also isn't normal compared to Frieza's race because, you know, he's his clone, he has Frieza's cells. He also was a born prodigy even stronger than a Super Saiyan. He's like an improved version of Frieza. It's like comparing Mewtwo to Mew.
The analogy that came to my mind was the electromagnetic spectrum. We can see a very narrow band of that spectrum with our eyes, while the rest is undetectable. If normal ki fell within the "visible light spectrum" of ki, then god ki might be outside of it. Perhaps until you have adequate training, or perhaps forever if you don't possess it yourself.
Agree with what's been said about there being mortal ki, Kai ki, and God ki. And to make it as simplistic as possible. Godly ki simply doesn't run out. If you remember when Goku and Vegeta are in that other dimension where they can't move until they learn how to not release their ki. After that they learn to obtain the ssg and ssgss forms on their own.
I don't think we can call it overrated until it's been explored fully.
Frieza does not know how to sense ki. He always has relied on scouters to pick up power levels.
Awesome Card Games Of course after that doesn't mean he can't learn if he's been training.
TheJadeFist He does not have any knowledge of the skill. If he truly sensed power levels, then he would have known his army would be crushed by the Z Warriors. It would make the battle on Earth much darker as he killed his men for failing. He also would have noticed his falling power level would be too low to fight SSGSS Goku, but instead he was shocked to see he was too weak to harm Goku.
+Awesome Card Games yet that laser beam...
Julien Maurel that laser beam came off as more of a contradiction to the entire series. It should have bounced right off him, given Goku's training, sensing abilities and just plain endurance,... the whole thing reeked of bad writing imo.
I think Awesome Card Games has a good point.
+Meow ster note that his guard was down, making vulnerable to almost anything
After the movie return of F and what you said about frieza's power, I don't understand why they called the form Goku and Vegeta got SSGSS. I say this cause goku said to frieza that he taped into the power of a SSG, this is telling me that SSGSS isn't actually a SSG at all. it's just a new SSJ form with the equivalent power of SSG. So SSGSS is pretty much Akira's official SSJ 4 if you ask me. Just my theory though you don't have to agree and am probably talking nonsense. XD
I'm not getting into the SSJ4 and SSJ God debate. BUT...I'd like to see them show SSJ4 be stated as the demonic side of the SSJ God level. It would, in general, make sense since the attitudes changes greatly.
I think God Ki is simply a different type of ki that can't be sensed because it isn't like normal ki, but like a transcendent type of ki. I also think it can be achieved through Whis unlocking it for you similarly to Elder Kai Unlock Ability that was done to Gohan, which would make you a lot stronger. So I think that would make sense...
It's kind of a funny thing how many deities appaear in the whole DB series. At first, in Db we were told there was a God Protector of Earth, which was Kami, and a Demon King, which was Piccolo. Then DBZ came in and we found out there was King Yamma above Kami and King Kai above Yamma. later on we found out there were 4 Kais and a Grand Kai above them. Then we met the Supreme Kais and the Ancient Supreme Kai. We go further to Battle of Gods and we meet Beerus and Wiis and in DB Super we meet Champa. My question is, how many gods are there in DB and how many more are we gonna see? Will it be done with the Gods of Destruction?
It sounds like it kinda low how angels are in The World Ends With You, Godly Ki seems like it on a higher wavelength so people of the normal wavelengths can't sense it but the gods can sense the ones lower them them
I think, the difference between mortal and god ki is that god ki is a higher dimensional energy. Referencing what Aizen explained in an episode of Bleach (assuming similarities), 2-dimensional beings cannot interact with 3-dimensional beings unless the higher dimensional being were to deliberately lower themselves to the levels of lower dimensional beings. In addition, the higher dimensional being would tend to seem godly to lower dimensional beings thanks in part to their access to extra dimensions.
Regardless of the amount of power a mortal may possess, if the mortal is unfamiliar with the nature of god ki they can't do much to counter it. A god ki user is just as overwhelmingly powerful in comparison to a normal ki user, much like how non ki users can easily be defeated by normal ki users.
is everyone forgetting frieza was able to sense goku ssgss power, and then he told goku to use. so he sensed god ki roght there
based on the training we have seen is it possible to stumble on god ki by refining your normal ki to a high level?
If god ki can't be sensed, how was piccolo able to sense supreme Kaia power during the buu saga at the tournament? He may not have been able to sense how strong he was but he definatley sensed he was a god.
perhaps there is an intergalactic pool of God Energy across the different universes, which any form of god, or deity (including Goku and Vegeta) are able to tap into, and use as a source of energy? Kind of like The Speed Force with The Flash???
I think even Frieza did learn how to sense Ki, he still cant sense God Ki.
i remember in dragon ball super beerus mentioned something implying as if he didn't even use Ki, as if he was at such a high level that Ki wasn't even what fueled his immense power
Where did you watch that Frieza Revival f movie?
Cmon like they cant sense god key because its to big to sense like when sound is louder and more squeaky it soon stops because its to loud for us to hear
Hey good vid, just one issue. Saying Frieza couldn't sense ki as the evidence he had no God ki doesn't really work. Frieza could never sense ki. It was one of his weaknesses.
*friezas power level theory* (only based on stated facts in the anime)
base-500k
2nd-1M
3rd-2M(assume doubles again)
4th 100%-200.000.000 (clearly stronger then 3rd but still 1% so if we multiply by 100...but this numbers excluding the extra power he had at first)
2 hundred million power. is that wrong? based on information we do actually have it seems legit so his 3rd to 4th form gave him a 100x times who knows how much golden frieza gave him.
*during the movie he mentioned a power level tho it was billion not million* *1.300.000.000* but the problem with either one is that we don't know which form he is talking about... does he mean he will have that power in base form,final form or his new golden form? he was in his base form at the time and said he was weaker then before. so if we assume he meant that and somehow could reach that amount...
Base=1.300.000.000
2nd=2.600.000.000
3rd=5.200.000.000
final 100%=520.000.000.000
So if we assume he meant his base power would be around that...his final form (not golden frieza) would be at 520 trillion power. you can only speculate the boost from his new form so theory stops there.
I think two theories. 1 is that godly ki is something that certain people are plain born with, such as Beerus and Whis. On the other hand, godly ki is something that can be obtained through a ritual and transformation f.e. Super Saiyan God, or through certain point in training.
What about in Battle of Gods when Goku uses instant transmission to fight Beerus?? And in Revival F he can't use instant transmission to get the Whis and Beerus but he did during Battle of Gods???
I believe the Godly Ki is just a different power source completely. As Beerus mentioned to Vegeta in BOG that deities such as himself do not draw their energy from the same source as Vegeta, Goku, etc. So maybe the Godly Ki power source has much more potential to reach than the generic power source (Ki) as the regular Z fighters are used to. I think this because once Goku experienced SSJG for he also learned and became familiar with the Godly Ki. He then learned how to somewhat harness that power and its new potential. Thus applying it to his regular base form, making him much stronger as Beerus mentioned at the end of the fight.
I wonder if Saiyans can get to the same level of power as a SSG without the ritual or the ritual is required and without SSG there is a hard barrier that you can't pass with training?
My opinion on the godly ki not being able to be sensed is because it is on an order of magnitude so much bigger that it would be like the background radiation of the universe and therefore not be able to be conventionally sensed.
I don't think there's any power requirement for the godly ki and that Goku and the others couldn't sense it simply because it was a kind of ki that they were unfamiliar with (alien, as you said). However, it's shown that the kais can all sense it, not much of a stretch to think that they likely have both kinds of ki. It raises the question, though, of how godly ki is different from mortal ki.
if goku cant get it from training how come friza can get the form from pure training??? answer it???
What a dumb title for a video. Not even gonna watch the entire thing. Frieza just trained for 4 months and pimped himself out with gold plates, that's it. He's not a god, he doesn't have god ki. But I bet if he had trained for like 2 years, instead of 4 months, he could've probably solo'd Beerus and Whis.
Yeah, Frieza would wreck shit if he trained a lot more. Imagined if he trained almost his whole life.
Slakkon McCathy That's a good point too. Frieza has some serious potential. If he knew about the hyperbolic timechamber, and had something similar made for by his henchmen, shit would be over...
+GrimHadez they could've used their technology to create a portal to that dimension. 4 months of that training makes more sense.
+GrimHadez Frieza does say in the movie that his father told him to never challenge Boo or Beerus so he obviously knew that he had limits to his power. Also we never see Beerus or whis at the peek of their power so we don't know exactly how large their power is...
Mega Ampharos Frieza was most likely significantly weaker at that point in time to be able to stand a chance against Buu or Beerus, so it's understandable for him to not try anything... But since he's able to get near a godly level of ki in only a matter of months, that shows his potential. It's true that we've never seen Whis or Beerus at full power but in BoG, when Beerus fought Goku, if I remember correctly, he said he went 80% which is almost close to full power.
I think it's hugely overrated, also the traditional multiplier of 50X defiantly doesn't apply in the God state
Adam s gokus power level doesnt increase by 50 anyways ? gokus power in dragonball seemed to get 100x greater but he never made it past the 100's doing 50x the amount of destruction or 50x power increase arent the same thing as chi x 50.
the super saiyan multiplier is 50x and that is what the increase is meant to be. so yes it is
That's what I said. i mean wtf does the transformation yield? Like a 10% increase?
onmissions 2323 Each go by a percentage and I think ssj 1 is like a 100% increase, I could be wrong.
Well ssj is a 50x multiplier which means gokus new form in the movie isn't the same. Cuz he's still weaker than beerus and even in bog beerus was only 30% stronger
I cant wait to see how Vegeta become SSGSS, hopefully we'll see in DB Super!
What i don't understand is, if godly ki can never diminish or die down, how come beerus "used up" all his ki in the fight with goku?
He didn't. He just liked that Goku was able to give him a good fight. Essentially it's a cliche way of Goku losing but making an anti hero friend who's stronger than he is but will keep him alive to have a rival.
god Ki is the ultimate form of ki. It gives the user untold power. However, as seen with golden ultimate evolution frieza, it does not mean that someone with god ki can not be beaten. or harmed.
Goku couldn't tell how strong Kaioshin, old Kaioshin and kibitz is in Buu saga. He tried to fire a blast at old Kaioshin to test while normally he can detect even the potential of a person (as whether someone is showing true power or not). So it is... Consistent?
I don't know myself how to interprete this but it should be noticed: In DB super dende was able to recognize at least some kind of ki from beerus which he was unfamiliar of though. Meaning: Dende (which is basicaly a god) has god ki yet is not a fighter and therefore not strong. Yet in buu saga after everyone on earth has been killed by super buu gohan was able to sense dende after he had escaped thanks to that black aladdin guy (forgot his name. popo was it? no idea.)
i just want to know if, goku is bascly going ssj1 but as a god in this movie, does that mean he can go ssj2 and ssj3 as a god ?
I think the reason characters can't sense godly ki is for the reason you said, it's a different type of energy.The z fighters have the ability to sense ki (life energy) and that's it, they don't have the ability to sense all forms of energy. Just like they couldn't sense the power level of the robotic androids, they can't sense god ki because it's not the same type of life energy. It's simply something else.
So while the beings that use it tend to be inherently stronger than normal life-forms, I don't think that god ki is automatically superior to regular ki. An incredibly powerful user of regular ki could be stronger than a being that uses god ki, even if they couldn't sense the different energy. I think Frieza is probably an example of this, though I wouldn't be surprised if he still hadn't learned to sense regular ki.
What is the name of the song that plays on the ending screen.
Freiza never knew how to sense ki as shown in his fight against Goku when he was shooting lasers randomly through the smoke
All I know is that vegito is stronger than all these "gods". I think it is another type of ki, but it does not represent ultimate power, those who have it just represent themselves as gods. There may be a way to get it through rituals or something, but idk. It would be interesting if this is what happened when you asked for the ultimate power for the dragon, but I believe it would be impossible for the dragon balls to have been used. Oh well.
***** Of course, normal fusion does not result in vegito, it results in gogeto... And their difference in power is SO different. They destroyed their earings to become vegito.
***** Idk man, that seems pretty cliche. The only thing stopping vegito is lack of oxigen, because low or high pressures, he is acustumed to. At least his body should be.
German Eagle
Goku said that Fusion would not be enough to stop Beerus. Really this says more about how stronger Freeza apparently became after training for four months and ascending again. Going from being beaten by a regular SSJ to becoming *WAY* more powerful than even stronger SSJs that fuse... why Toriyama? This sounds so wrong.
I suppose this also says a lot about how powerful Freeza was when we first saw him. Those power level charts people come up with where they make Goku and Freeza around the same level are completely wrong. Remember, power levels are not the deciding factor, there is also training and technique. Who knows how powerful Freeza was relative to Goku. Could be 10 times. Could be 100 times.
extragirth64 Like I said, this is not a contradiction, He did not have the rings, so the only way possible to do a fusion is by turning into gogeto. Which is much weaker than vegeto. I don't have alot of thoughts together on the whole getting alot more powerful. Since I still don't understand alot about how he works. Like sayans, when they come close to dieing, they get a zenkai boost, freeza may have something similar to that, but different.
German Eagle
The way Goku just shrugged off the idea of Fusion in _Battle of Gods_ says a lot more than you give it credit. If it would even give them remotely closer power to battle Beerus, then Goku would not just dismiss Fusion the way he did.
Unless Fusion with the earrings is twice or three times as good as Fusion dance then I say your assumption is way off. However I am certain the two types of Fusion are the same, with one having slightly less power and only lasting 1/2 hour.
Freiza couldnt sense regular energy to begin with.
Freiza couldnt even assess his own energy after being transformed for a while.
Random topic question for you nation guys. Do you think Goku is a true god now or just partly so after his SSG form in BoG?
i think godly ki is different and can be used/manipulated more freely because in battle of gods the way beerus and goku flew
during there fight was more freely than normal but in most of dragonball z when they flew and seem to mostly straight instead of being able to go in any direction but i don't know yet and i hope they expand up on the subject
I think Godly Ki would requirement more information. Because as from the Battle of Gods movie, it leads us to think that the only way to defeat a God is to also be a God.
But Buu killed a few Kais and Kais are Gods, meaning they have Godly Ki. Meaning, one does not need to be a God to defeat one, but only needs to be one to sense one.
You could think of ki like wave length's, It's just how do you tune yourself to the god ki. (just a theory)
can goku and vegeta ki be sensed by krillin and other z fighters?
Is the game you're playing ''Battle of Z''?
the real question is: how does SSJ4 and SSJG compare? even though SSJ4 isn't cannon. the god form makes sense, otherwise, for the series to continue, there just be more SSJ forms up until 100 and it would just get silly.
Just a question here, no hurtful comments please, but are the Kais considered gods or to have godly ki?
Of so, mortal ki has already demonstrated the power to kill gods. Cell exploded and killed King Kai after all.
Besides that, it seems to be similar to magic in relation to mortal ki: a different type of energy that, like mortal ki, can be used to do practically anything.
Yo Dragonball Nation my theorie is that everyone has God Ki inside them they just don't know it and can't sense it within them it has to be unlocked in one way or another
whis mentioned in dragon ball super , that vegeta would never beable to fight bills , without Whis's help
I'm not as knowledgeable as id like about DBZ, but I feel like godly ki is either dished out by some ethereal being far surpassing the rest of the universe by an unimaginable degree, or a ritual such as the super sayain god transformation is required.
god kai is when you get a large amount of kai. like of example w all the sayain gave goku the power to reach it however freazer was with alot of power so he come reach that power.
i think that it gives you such an advantage over opponents, but not to the extent that you automatically win. Like how frieza could not sense ki on namek, that gave goku an advantage, but it didnt mean goku would win. Same thing here, godly ki allows you to not be sensed unless by another god.
+dragon ball nation I think the godly ki can't be sensed because the power levels but also because most the characters that can sense ki are unfamiliar with that type of ki.
Okay it's pretty confusing. I feel like you can't obtain the status of being a god but you can be so strong that you can be on the level of strength that a god has. It's like once you get to a certain strength, you enter a new level of Ki; Godly Ki. Dragon Ball Nation
How come they don't show ss4 in the dbz series or go in that mode? New series u only see ss3 then straight into ss god?? Even in movie goku didn't go ss4?
Frieza can't sense Ki in general so that whole argument is kind of out the window.
I feel that it could be a different type of energy altogether like how ki, chakra from naruto, and raishi from bleach are all different
It's quite simply a completely different type of energy. I believe Supreme Kai and Elder Kai also have Godly Ki, as I don't think anyone could sense them either.Fact in other world it was Gohans Ki that Goku could sense in the Buu Saga.
1:37 but u actually know that vegeta got ssgss in fnf too?
Too be fair, it wasn't just through sheer training. If you have seen DBS you'll know what I mean. This is an old video too.
+Dragon Ball Nation ok i just saw the movies actually proud u answered😆
+Dragon Ball Nation i know he couldn't achieve ssg or ssgss through sheer training i was just a little irritated u took vegeta as an example (ok actually u also took goku) cuz they both already have achieved god ki, no matter how but i know it sounded like i wanted to say that vegeta reached god level through sheer training but i don't think anyone could do this i think god ki is a separately other level of ki (sry for bad english)
My thought is that godly ki is a whole other type of energy which mortals cannot sense since they are not on that level of not power, but existence itself. Note that the original sayian god was composed of basic level sayians, likely only in the hundreds or low thousands. That god still gained those attributes. As well, consider that even though someone like King Yemna is clearly far weaker physically and in terms of ki than someone like frieza or cell, and yet he has divine authority which can override their huge powers. There is a hierarchy of existence and gods exist on a level mortals, no matter how powerful, are simply not privy to.
Godly ki is definitely a separate ki, it's a god's form of power but it is technically no different from regular ki As far as it's been shown. One thing I could think of is that it is able to allow the user to use considerably more powerful versions of their pre existing abilities [Kamehameha Rebirth and God Kamehameha] The only reason Frieza was able to combat Goku is because he was just at an extreme power level, it did not mean he was a god. He just had the same power level as Goku with the disadvantage of not being able to sense him, which can be used as an advantage to goku to beat him down.
Freeza can't sense energy anyway lol.. So good catch on your part. I don't think he has the mentality to even care to learn to sense energy.
edit: I think it is just a different type of ki entirely. It's alien to them. That's what I think, personally.
From what I remember from Battle of Gods, once Goku dropped from his god form in his fight with Beerus he actually did better. So are we to assume that Goku in his regular Super Saiyan form is more powerful than he is in his God form?
This leads me to believe that Godly ki just a different type of power entirely, not something that is necessarily stronger than regular ki.
***** Yeah i can see where your coming from but actually he only was only barely keeping up because he retained a small portion of that Ki also when Beerus and Goku fought in the cave under the lake when he lost his Godly-Ki he became several times slower then Beerus and only keep up using instant transmission but at times Beerus was still able to pin point his location to strike him (which i thought was bullshit because how do you keep up with something that is instant which is faster then light but topic for a different day) Beerus in the movie also commented on he drop back to a normal SSJ but still has a reminsice of God like Ki furthermore instant transmission and Goku being a natural genius for combat his body remember the power of it retaining the ki to power up his current form so Godly KI is stronger then regular ki its on a whole different level
His God form just ran out but he'd absorbed the residual energy into his SSJ form which is why he could keep fighting. In RF, they access SSJG via the SSJ form, so this makes sense to the Saiyans retaining God ki after the ritual.
Just a point, every one of the Kais is a god, and everyone can sense their energy, does this mean that Beerus and Whis are at the near top of some dietal totem pole, or, because they are immortal, are they on some higher level as dieties. Also, it's movie canon, but Garlic Jr. was immortal, but was still able to be sensed, so would it be a mix of Diety and immortality.
I think Godly Ki is a completely different ki altogether; there's regular ki, and there's Godly Ki. It's kinda like trying to measure the length of a table with mL; it simply cannot be done because they are 2 completely different ki reserves. In this sense, Gohan would not be able to amass enough power to content with Beerus; he'd have to undergo the same ritual Goku did to step into "Godhood".
Here's how I kinda envision the difference between regular and god ki:
Say we had 2 beings with a power scale of 10 in terms of normal ki
Now lets take one of the beings and instill within him god ki
While both beings are still at a power scale of 10, the numbers that represent the god ki are basically a completely different set of numerical units that transcends our understanding of quantity. In other words, our 10=/= a gods 10
Another way to think about is it compare Alchemy and Science. Though, at some points, they share similar properties, by they are by no means the same thing. They're two completely different objects that can have some lines drawn between them.
My theory on this is that Godly Ki is something that you learn how to acquire in one way or another OR it could be passed down in either a ritual or genetically. The reason the z warriors can't sense it, is because they've been training and using the ability to sense regular Ki their entire lives. They haven't yet learn how to sense God ki because no one has taught them. But I do however believe that it is possible to eventually with some training sense God Ki just like it took time to learn how to sense regular Ki. In my opinion it would be a different yet similar technique.
I mean, it has been shown that is not like is something "beyond" every other form of power. If anything it has allowed the sayans to go beyond their own bodies limits. While out there are creatures and people who are still stronger without having god ki, can you imagine if Jiren got god ki? The guy would have blinked and don't even UI Goku would have stood a chance.
This maybe just a hypothesis.. but I think *god chi has some form of magical or divine properties as opposed to normal chi*. Maybe its just a difference in attributes but I think, *god chi does not exactly define that it is powerful than normal chi* as what many have believed.
Here's why I think:
1) *god chi cannot be felt by normal chi users*:
-- Obviously, this put the god chi an advantage over normal chi. We all know that *Fighters in the Dragon Ball realm amplifies their stats using chi in which they use to transcend physical attributes* - this is from: *amplifying their visions, reaction time and other senses* as well as *enhancing their physical strength and speed* up to *firing destructive blasts that can destroy anything* depending on the *amount on Chi* that someone possess _(which I believed measured in Power Levels)_.
*But if God chi cannot be felt and cannot be sensed at the same time, how will you be able to fight back*? Clearly, its hard to fight back when you cannot hardly sense an upcoming attack.
2) *Only gods can sense gods*.
-- This is proven by the Dragon Ball Super manga "Goku's loss", that kaios can sense Beerus despite them being weaker than Majin Buu. Even though Majin Buu can easily obliterate their existence, does this prove that god chi is not as powerful as what we expect? I have a feeling that having god chi does not point that a character is already stronger right away to character B.
3) *Normal chi can go on par with god chi if the user has enormous chi to fight back*
-- Using Majin Buu as an example and the Kaios that Majin Buu can easily obliterate during the DBZ series, I think normal chi can put a fight with god chi if you have enough normal chi to fight back. But the user should have an enormous amount of normal chi: like for example: 10 normal chi = 1 god chi.. this means that if the normal chi is too strong, it can put a fight with someone who has a god chi. - This hypothesis of mine is
proven by Frieza that normal chi can put a fight with god chi if you have enough chi to put a fight with someone who has god chi.
_Unless later on, it will be explained in later DB Super series episode that Frieza has somewhat achieved god chi somewhere, then this hypothesis will be proven wrong_.
4) *god chi may have some attributes that may alter realities*.
-- As proven by the Kaios, the god of creation as opposed to Beerus as a god of destruction, showing the concept of destruction and creation, *it seems that god chi allows them to create from nothingness since kaios are the god of creation*, is god chi has some attributes that allows them to perform creations? I think _(for now)_ *yes* as chi is the source of power in Dragon Ball realm. This is the power source that I believe allow the Kaios to create from objects out of the nowhere _(like how kibito summoned a block to Gohan which caused the Z-sword to break and how Kibito alters Gohan's suit into like his dad prior to his fight with Majin Buu)_.. Also, *Whis can manipulate time and revert it back at maximum of three minutes* and since *chi are the power source in the DB realm, is it possible that Whis is using god chi to revert back time?
At the end, these are just *hypothesis with our current information about god chi as opposed to normal chi users*, we still need to watch Dragon Ball Super in order to learn more about god chi.. I'm pretty sure that this will be explained further _(hopefully)_. But as of now, this is what I understand about the difference of god chi over normal chi.
I hope DB Super will explain this further about the chi differences.
With the Golden Frieza form he simply brings more of his ki out at once and it burns up quicker.
When Goku transformed into a god he said he was disappointed that there was this level of power that he *could not reach on his own*. I think the Battle of Gods movie strongly implied that there was a hard limit he had reached without attaining godly ki. That is- a Saiyan can only get so strong without godly ki - Frieza's race might be a different story. But this is Dragon Ball so nothing is written in stone.
Whats that outro theme?
Just to clarify. In the ancient japanese culture ki is cultivated through training. It is actually a physical power. Ki/chi/mana/prana is an inner strength and the life force that permeates the universe...but there is another power that is different. It is called "shen". The spiritual force higher then ki. It does not have the same properties nor does it come from the same place...search up "shen" to learn more about it. This will give you solid answers and insight into what the man was thinking, as well probably raise new questions within you...add me on facebook. Emel ballatan. Namaste :-)
godly Ki can only be sensed by other gods. It's really that simple. Has nothing to do with strength/power levels.
I think it's so efficient it doesn't resonate energy, and the only reason other people with God Ki can recognize it, is because they can compare it to themselves.
Only a speculation: Maybe the final villain of "Dragon Ball: Super" will be the Original Super Saiyan -- or the Original Super Saiyan God.
Thedoctor19000 he would be weak...
Ivan Ereiz
So? Freeza was orders of magnitude weaker than Goku -- who attained the SSJG transformation -- when he (Freeza) was resurrected. However, after his resurrection, Freeza was able to achieve a power that rivaled even that of Goku -- who then attained the SSJGSS transformation -- in just four months of training. It was stated -- or speculated -- by someone that Akira Toriyama stated that the only reason Freeza became so powerful was because Freeza became the God of Destruction of one of
the other 12 universes in "Dragonball," potentially after being trained by another God of Destruction -- potentially Champa. This makes sense, since the only method witnessed so far for attaining the power of Godly ki is through a ritual.
Regarding the Original Super Saiyan: When the Original Super Saiyan could not maintain the power of the Super Saiyan transformation duirng 1,000 years before the events of "Dragonball," the Original Super Saiyan simply disappeared in an explosion because of the amount of ki. Since there was no physical corpse left after the explosion, it could be speculated that the Original Super Saiyan did not die from the explosion, and was transported to another universe. This would be similar to howBardock was transported back in time within the same universe in the one one film, despite the film being non-canon. In this other universe, the Original Super Saiyan could have been trained by another God of Destruction to attain Godly ki through a ritual. Also, the Original Super Saiyan could have attained immortality back then, and would still be alive during the events of "Dragonball: Super."
Regarding the Original Super Saiyan God, it also stated that the Original Super Saiyan God vanished after attempting to defeat the other evil Saiyans. The Original Super Saiyan God could have been transported to another one of the 12 universes due to the vanishing of the Original Super Saiyan God. There, the Original Super Saiyan God could have attained immortality in that other universe, and was able to train for that amount of time before the events of "Dragonball: Super." It is not specified how long ago the Original Super Saiyan God attained the SSJG transformation. It could have been before or after the Original Super Saiyan came and vanished; however, all is known that it occurred centuries ago.
Also, why do you think that the Original Super Saiyan God was at all weak? It was stated that an interviewer asked Akira Toriyama what would happen if Vegito or Gogeta attained the SSJ3 transformation. Would SSJ3 Vegito or SSJ3 Gogeta be just as strong or stronger than SSJG Goku? Toriyama answered by stating that there is an absolute limit as to how much normal ki can be increased before the normal ki explodes the user -- such as exploding from the increasing amount ki, as was the case as the Original Super Saiyan -- thereby killing the user. If either Vegito or Gogeta were able to attain the SSJ3 transformation, the ki would be right at or above that absolute limit for normal ki. As a result, the body of either SSJ3 Vegito or SSJ3 Gogeta would be so saturated with normal ki that either of their bodies would explode -- killing either of them. Only through attaining Godly ki would an user be able control and maintain ki at or above that absolute limit without exploding and dying. This is the reason why a ritual was employed to even attain the SSJG transformation. It was the only method to overcome that absolute limit. With this stated, this signifies that an user who possesses Godly ki is already at or above that absolute limit for ki. Therefore, it is irrelevant as to how high the powerlevel of the user was before attaining Godly ki, because Godly ki can only be attained through the performance of a ritual. The user could have a powerlevel of 1 before performing that ritual, and still achieve Godly ki after the performing that ritual. This signifies that the Original Super Saiyan God was indeed at or above that absolute limit. Therefore, the Original Super Saiyan God might not have been as powerful as Goku when he (Goku) attained the SSJG transformation, because Goku already possessed an immense normal ki before attaining it. However, both needed to perform the ritual to overcome that absolute limit for ki. Since the Original Super Saiyan God vanished centuries before the events of "Dragonball," the Original Super Saiyan God might have been transported to another of the 12 universe where the Original Super Saiyan God attained immortality, became a God of Destruction, and trained to become more powerful for centuries since then.
Thedoctor19000 do you even watch the movie? Golden Frieza was not even on par with both SSGSS Goku and Vegeta. Frieza obtained the Golden form through training by himself. no god helped him like at all.
***** Yes, I did watch the film. It was never specified what type of training Freeza did to attain that Golden transformation, despite him training for only four months when he never trained in his entire life before then. That is why someone asked Akira Toriyama about that very subject of how Freeza trained to become so powerful in just four months, and he (Toriyama) apparently answered it. If you have an issue with that, take it up with Toriyama. Also, yes, Golden Freeza was on par, if not more powerful than SSJGSS Goku, at the very beginning of the Golden transformation. The only reason Golden Freeza lost to SSJGSS Goku because Freeza only attained the Golden transformation and did not train in the form to become conditioned to its effect of immense draining of energy and stamina. As the fight progressed, Freeza in the Golden form simply consumed an immense amount of his energy and stamina. This made Freeza not as powerful as the fight progressed. That is why Goku exploited this weakness to ultimately overcome him.
Thedoctor19000 eep, i love your theory on the Original Super Saiyan God! That would be an awesome battle (except it wouldn't because... Dragonball), as (s)he'd be wise and old and has loads of experience! It would be really amazing to see and a very worthy opponent!
my only question is why didn't they just make everyone SSJGOD, they apparently made vegeta a god, why not gohan trunks and goten?
I don't think Goku and Vegeta could have gotten that strong just by training. I think that was the reason why Goku was so upset about becoming SSG. He knows he was at his limit and needed outside help to get stronger.
I have one for you. Does Mystic Sayian use Godly Ki?
3oct1111 That is not the case
What the Elder Kai did was make Gohans base power equal to the power he would have had if he went Super Saiyan 3, or that is what I have been led to believe.
Possibly, I personally think Mystic Sayian is more like hyper efficient super Sayian useing the same concept of full power but taken to the extreme for no wasted energy for things like the hair or eye color changes. But multiple theories make for a good discussion.
3oct1111
Multiple theories make for wonderful conversations~
I must rebuttal, however. The Mystic form truly has nothing to do with being a Super Saiyan, just the inner potential of the being who has turned "Mystic". Since Gohan has Saiyan blood, his full saiyan potential (At the time) was SSJ3. Now, I know I said Mystic has nothing to do with the SSJ transformations, but the highest potential for saiyans lies within the power of their transformations, if that makes sense.
The Scarlet Meister I just realized our theories don't actually conflict at all
I heard the real translation always was ultimate gohan, so mystic was Just put in for english dub i think mainly bcuz the old kai unlocked gohans power. But its actually supposed to be ultimate gohan which makes sense bcuz all of gohans potential was unlocked, and we already knew gohan had this great power in him and wasnt fully out. Mystic is Just bad dubbing or for money msking purposes. All old kai did was bring out all of gohans power he already had in him. Which would mean if goku had all his potential unlocked by old kai he would be weaker than gohan still bcuz gohan always had greater power than goku but was hidden. I Just don't get why he cant be ssj ultimate gohan? Ssj should Just boost his base power which is now ultimate and final form gohan as a non ssj.
i believe they can't sense the God Ki because it is on a different (for lack of a better word) frequency than normal Ki. The Z warriors tune into the frequency of normal Ki but don't know how to tune into the God Ki
i'm pretty sure king kai said he was sensing beerus'z aproach, so that means the z fighters simply did not know how to sense deity, because they did not need to before.
Yamato Tenzou i believe godly ki i something similar to yuyu hakuso's spirit energy and demon energy thing. it's a different type of ki wich needs diferent type of training to sense.. that's my theory on this. don't hate my english xD
Maybe God ki is the ultimate Kaio ken, but mastered in full potential with no drawbacks when unlocked in a mystical way. Like wishes of dragonballs it must have rules.
Such things as a sayan god are simply surprise elements to keep fans watching the old formula. Next thing you know Goku will be able to turn back time in order to be a step ahead of the opponent.
God ki might have just gotten harder to explain. Goku can still turn regular super saiyan which begs the question of how powerful he is without God ki and what the benefits of God Ki. In terms of benefits the first saiyan god transformation, going by the anime, had more benefits which are yet to be seen in super saiyan blue. Judging again by the anime it is at least much more dense than regular ki