If you use player 2 while in the drone, you can kill almost anything completely safely, and they can break walls, including crystal, and dig, making EVERY TYPE completely redundant. I mean, why even play the game at that point? There’s no struggle anymore…
@@DOGEKByou realise there are only 5 Pikmin types that are level specific so idk if it would work as you are forced to use different Pikmin for different levels
Winged Pikmin's nerf via pathfinding is such a bizarre trait, I remember that I got so confused by Winged Pikmin not carrying treasures atop the Hearth *DUE TO A CLIMBING WALL NOT BEING BUILT*
Seems like just like PIkmin 3's overnerffing of purples and whites, they probably didn't want players to default to the previous types so they nerfed Pinks and to a lesser extent rocks. I can see the nerf being necessary to not completely obsolete blues...and like everything else, but having PInks be the literal last pikmin you find if the game kind of should've made them the "reward" for seeing the game through like the purple onion was.
@MarioMastar I can't really agree with it being "necessary" Between sprinklers and more Submerged areas blues already have places where they're needed By comparison, Wings always mostly boiled down to being good carriers, but now between all their associated objects (flukeweeds, bamboo gates, etc) being gone, and the 3 pikmin limit they're pretty much completely inferior to Whites thanks to rarely taking any shortcuts when carrying
Rock and winged in Pikmin 4 seem to me like an extra. They have some caves and dandori challenges to shine, but they are not that useful in the overworld, in my opinion. On my first playthrough I had like ten rock Pikmin before unlocking their onion, and it was the sixth onion type that I found. In the last zone I used a lot of winged, though.
I feel like they probably just didn’t put nearly as much time into winged Pikmin pathfinding as in 3 (where they were one of the main new types) And honestly, because they’re unlocked later in the game and there’s a limit on how many types you can have out, there isn’t usually much reason to use winged Pikmin in 4. Bit sad really
The canon reason that yellows dig faster is because of their ears. They act like shovels allowing them to go much quicker than any other pikmin. Don't know if you were asking why they can dig faster balance wise or canon wise
And being the only ones with ears makes the fact that they are the only ones with a different digging speed logical. White Pikmin being faster overall could have 2x digging speed, though. Not as fast as yellows but faster than base speed.
IIRC There's a log in 2 that mentions their intense curiosity motivates them to seek high ground and dig faster. They want to see what they can/what they have found. It doesn't mention it but it would also explain the affinity for Bomb Rocks in 1 too. The other types would be weary of something new and dangerous while Yellows would want to investigate. Note this doesn't disprove the ears thing. As example 1's logs say Reds are the strongest because of their fiery spirit without mentioning their noses and we know better now.
Yellows are more useful since they can grab the tail regardless of how high it is, so you don't have to wait for the boss to lower it. A feat Winged Pikmin CAN'T do for some (dumb) reason.
@@xray8012 You can also deal with the Foolix by just charging Ice pikmin straight in there, because even when stuck in the Foolix they'll still freeze it.
Another funny thing about ice pikmin is that when you manage to time freezing the enemy with hitting them with Oatchi's charge the enemy is technically counted as airborne due to the little "hop" they do on impact, thus instantly being killed when falling to the ground. This is a quick way to deal with Moss in Hero's Hideaway for example.
The reason I believe Yellow Pikmin are the best diggers is because the devs likes to incorporate the physical biology of the Pikmin's design into their in-game attributes. For example the "reason" Red have higher attack power is because they actually stab the enemies with their pointy noses. Likewise, yellow Pikmin fly higher because they use their ears to make themselves aerodynamic, Blues can breathe underwater because their "mouths" are actually gills, Purples are obviously big bois so they can carry more, Whites (could) detect treasures underground because of their eyes being able to detect infrared. I would assume the idea is that yellows are probably using their ears like Shovels.
It’s still pretty silly, I mean, their ears are a floppy membrane, it shouldn’t be that good for digging. Just make Yellow Pikmin able to be thrown farther as well as higher and give the dig speed to the White Pikmin.
Glow Pikmin are such a strength that during night missions, the game will ask you to potentially fight two Smoky Proggs at once, while in other scenarios one Smokey Progg is a serious final-dungeon threat. Having a full squad of Glow with you is the equivalent of two full squads of Pikmin of your choice.
4:30 There is one boss where you absolutely need Purple Pikmin, so they have something that Oatchi cannot do. But on the flipside, the crystal gates can be broken with bombs so Oatchi can technically get through those without needing Rock Pikmin. I also think it's worth noting that Glow Pikmin will bloom over time, so it's easy to get them all flowered without needing to use a spray or gathering nectar. Though they do lose their flowers when used in a glowmob.
@@redstonewarrior0152 That's correct, you can even go to the Burrow of Beginnings in the base camp area, sprout a single Glow Pikmin and use it to progress the quest over and over, meaning a single Glow Seed can technically earn you 30 material without passing any days.
I think Pikmin 4's level design does a lot of heavy lifting. Dandori missions forcing certain Pikmin gives you a better idea of their strengths and weaknesses than playing casually. For example, the Level 5 of the bonus cave was such a tight time limit I had to carefully pick which items got the white Pikmin.
One thing that wasn't mentioned about purples is their earthquake attack. A lot of enemies that only certain Pikmin types with certain immunites could fight aren't a problem for them; you'd only need to throw them next to an enemy since they deal damage from the shockwave.
though said shock wave is difficult to pull off due to the stupid auto-lock feature, so it sadly doesn't come into play as often as you want, especially in the one dandori challenge where you have to use purples to slaughter bulborb larva, but the auto-lock ends up making the challenge harder than it needs to be due that thing canceling the purples shockwave attack for some reason.
@@maurobrugnaletti8052 They are, but you can still get the platinum through the time bonus once you've cleared the level, so it's mostly inconsequential.
It doesn’t matter because you can still get platinum without them as long as your time bonus is high enough to make up the difference. In fact, it’s often preferable to freeze and shatter enemies because the time bonus gained by not having to carry them back is greater than the points you would get from them.
I think some things that deserved more of a mention are the three type limit and availability. One reason I believe Ice Pikmin to be the strongest regular pikmin type is how available they are. If you enter every cave, you'll almost certain always have more than your pikmin limit of ice pikmin. You can leave Sun Speckled Terrace with like 80 pikmin with no grinding. Besides that, ice pikmin are the recommended type for 5/6 areas of the game, so there's almost never any drawback to bringing them everywhere you go. Ice pikmin also auto generate spicy sprays for you which is one of the biggest reasons they're so busted. Availability is also important to bring up with caves since caves will always provide all the pikmin you need to collect every treasure iirc. This is almost always with wild pikmin too, so you don't have to worry about candypop buds generally. That's a big reason I'd like to actually propose that red pikmin are A tier. Since they now have the same attack strength as purples, you're generally not actually going to see a massive difference in performance when you're using oatchi (almost always). They'll both shred through any enemies they come across, but you can so quickly gain full parties of red pikmin in the early game, they'll probably be a more opposing force with charging and rushing. Fire is also back to the most dangerous hazard in 4, so reds also get an indirect buff there. Since items weren't mentioned, I would like to quickly mention that the bundled hay is the only obstacle that you can't circumvent with items and Oatchi combined. In general, I think purples and rocks might want to be lowered a bit. It's largely just due to the fact that carrying them above ground is generally not important since they aren't required for any treasures there, and ice pikmin make most enemies there harmless enough anyways. I'd wager that the few enemies ice pikmin won't dominate above ground are actually easily taken down by winged pikmin instead. Purples are massively useful during the final boss which I think is worth mentioning. In general, I find what makes a pikmin great in 4 is how well they work in the early game and how well they play around Oatchi in the late game. That's personally why I'd put winged and red pikmin much higher than most people.
@@FriendlyNeighborhoodNoob I know, I just beat my no upgrades run, but Trial 10 was with 0 seconds left and I've gotten platinum on every Dandori Challenge before. Even on trial 5 I just barely missed it.
@@yurei4414Yes, but it means leaving a lot of Pikmin and all your Purples to lift the onion, and only having a bunch of Ice to fight the enemies on the way
(Mad respect for you calling Winged Pikmin "Pinks", I wish new types were still called by their colors.) This is a nice tier list video overall and serves as a great analysis of 4's game design, I learned a lot from this video (I didn't know you could cheese sprinklers, or even consider the fact that you could freeze the water in the Baldy Long Legs room in the last cave to cheese it). Those poor white Pikmin... I will argue that the inability to dismiss Glow Pikmin is a double edged sword. I had numerous occurrences where I'd spawn them in a cave and eventually encounter an enemy more suited for Rocks (or another specific type), making me want to dismiss my Glows.... but the little rascals will NOT stay put, leading to frustration and unnecessary deaths in some cases. Night mode really could use an endless mode too. I like how you brought that up.
Fun Fact: The reason Blue Pikmin are always shown suffering in Nintendo's marketing is because they have _mouths,_ which do a better job of showing sadness or fear then the Pikmin types with no mouth.
19:32 something you forgot to mention was that purples can break crystals on enemies. I discovered this because I like going the the piklopidia and killing everything with 100 purples
a minor thing you missed for ice and purples, is that they are immune to bubble hazards, it's not uber common but it's something nice, with purples being too heavy and ice pikmin freezing the bubble, as for glow pikmin they also can't fall to their deaths should you miss a throw and throw one into the abyss, as they just teleport back too you (why winged Pikmin don't do this as well is unknown)
@@EnheTook50Benadryl they don't, and if you think that's horseshit, you are completely right, they have wings for a reason and you're telling me they can't fly out of a hole.
I'm not very familiar with Pikmin in general but people joked about this game never happening for so long that my initial reaction to seeing the title is that the game still doesn't exist I have begun to get interested in it, maybe I'll play the series someday...
Minor point in rocks' favor: Frozen enemies take less damage from all types... except for Rocks. Rock Pikmin deal their full damage to frozen enemies. Bigger point in their favor: You don't need to charge them, they can instakill enemies when paired with Oatchi's Rush as well. This lets them hit enemies with elevated weak points, such as the cannon beetle from your example clip.
@Rhy2412TitanGamer well, sometimes Enemies that crush with an elemental effect (like the Cake family on their one side) or getting crushed on "hard" surfaces will still kill Rocks It doesn't come up all the time, but they aren't fully safe compared to 3
I feel that they should have Blue Pikmin act as a means to have other Pikmin be able to go underwater. Like they evolved to act as air supply to other Pikmin.
or like Smash bros which gave blue pikmin stronger throwing in lieu of not doing any "water damage" (since water only pushes and that'd be awkward given Olimar's playstyle), they could incorporate that. Like make it so Blues can't be flung off enemies as easily and/or slow enemies down slightly by "weighting them down with water". Something to give blues a bit of a combat edge over reds. Though like your suggestion, maybe having blues carry stuff through water significantly faster and retain the speed would be interesting. Like if they get wet, their speed triples and stays until they deposit the item to incentivize using them over pinks. but I think slowing enemies would be useful, the more blues on the enemy the slower their animations and movement making them less risky to deal with and giving them a niche over ices.
But what would you even use it for ? I mean, sure Oatchi can't dive with pikmin on his back, but there isn't enough interesting stuff underwater to bring the other types there. Also what is so important that you would take the other other types underwater? I can get reds, rocks and purples (are the underwater enemies even tough enough to feel the need to use them?) but what would the others be useful for? Yellows so you can ....... aim further?(no seriously do you have any concept for how they could be used there?)Maybe underwater whites could make more sense but they still aren't interesting enough to have them there. And if you just want to transport them to the other side why can't you use Oatchi ?! Look, what im trying to say here is: because of Oatchi this upgrade to blues wouldn't work in this game, maybe in Pikmin 5 but not in this game.
@@panwasacz2733 There are a few bodies of water where you can't bring oatchi into without first completing some task. Such as the body of water you find the Moai figurine in. That is one way to think about bringing other pikmin.
It's also worth mentionning that you can charge at the front of a poison (moldy) enemy to kill it. Sometimes, a small group wont be affected by the poison before it's dead. So "moldy" enemies are even less of a threat.
23:50 And it even applied in 3 since in Twilight River, the place you unlock pinks, when you have a spicy berry plant on the other side of the river, they'd take the lily pad even though they fly, like dude you have wings, use them, maybe they find it fun, IDK.
I watched your previous tier list yesterday, and the way Blues are only really used when the game forces you to. To make them better, either the devs go out of their way to make blues carry objects back faster through bodies of water (which can just be solved with ice pikmin, oatchi or wings) or what I thought of, a way to help in combat. My idea was literally: if Blues have webbed hands and feet from swimming so much, it could give them a stronger grip on enemies, that reduces their likeability of being shaken off. It doesn't encroach on other pikmin's skills, and gives another alternative to reds and rocks as an attack style. They'd probably need a damage nerf but hey could work
I think freezing enemies was supposed to be a downside because when an enemy shatters, it doesn't leave a corpse behind. But there's so many other ways to grow your army that sometimes I prefer that outcome - keeps the pathways clear!
It is helpful in dándole though, since you don't have an onion you can shatter the small enemies to get nectar instead and score even a higher score that you could when you don't, because that speed your pikmins up and those enemies are worth basically nothing
The part with the Baldy Long Leg and how you happen to have ice pikmin when it was in a puddle straight up made me have a revelation. Next playthrough, I'll do just that.
Blue Pikmin are strong in multitasking underwater, right? Maybe they should have an ability relegated to that, like them swimming a treasure to the surface at top speed before comedically dropping it and sliding it to land and moving to carry it normally again.
I was doing an oatchi only run of pikmin 4 (just to olimar not the post game) and the only things I couldn’t get using oatchi and player 2 was treasures on spiderwebs that you have to drag down with pikmin, metal gates you have to drag down with pikmin , bags you have to compress, and the dials on the safe. (The Crystal walls can be broken with bombs)
I agree with a large majority of the list, great job 👍. My only suggestion is bumping up 4's Yellows, because of the three Pikmin type limit their usefulness in a variety of scenarios helps the fact that the aren't the best in all scenarios, so you're still likely to have them around
Putting 3's Wings in S tier was the right move. Literally beat the tropical wilds without building that bridge connected to the big chunk of land because wings are so powerful!
Changes i would make to every pikmin type Red Pikmin: - Should be able to latch on to enemies more effectively, (I.e. an enemy will have to shake them more than once to get them off) this will separate them from rocks and purples Yellows Pikmin: - should be able to be thrown further as well as higher. - They should also be able to destroy walls faster in addition to their higher digging speed -should once again be the only type to carry bomb rocks Blue Pikmin: - Silokhawk's idea i guess Purples Pikmin: - should regain all of their abilities from pikmin 2, - will be thrown MUCH slower (I.e you cant spam throw them), this way you cant stun lock enemies and will separate them from rocks -can only be obtained from candy pop buds, and 5 pikmin thrown in will only grant one purple White Pikmin: - When they die through non-eating ways they will create a cloud of poison that damages nearby enemies, and will do less damage than when directly eaten -be given normal attack damage - when thrown onto enemies they will attack normal, but when idle further away from the enemy they will spit at the enemy, this will do half the DPS as when directly thrown at them Rock Pikmin: fine the way they are Winged Pikmin: - should get their old pikmin 3 ai back -carry weight would be reduced to 1/2 Ice Pikmin: - When attacking an enemy they wont freeze it, but will instead slow it down. Enemies will only be frozen solid when they eat them Glow pikmin/bulbmin: - Will NOT be able to carry items -will have .5 attack damage Oatchi: - HES TOO DANGROUS TO BE LEFT ALIVE
With upgrades Oatchi sort of can, tho it's limited to him swimming underwater to attack or collect something when the player sends him to Otherwise yeah he stays on the surface
Super happy to see a follow up to this, the previous tier list is one of the best Pikmin videos imo. I'd like to share some of my opinions: Another point for Purples in 4 is the 3 type limit. It benefits them the most. Having Purples carry with the strength of 10 is more useful now than it ever was imo, as rationing your Pikmin is vital this time around. Purples feel honestly perfect this time imo. Very strong, useful and "above average" but not too OP. I feel like Rocks are also a bit too rare in 4 to be that high imo. While they are good, you get them so late in the game, and I don't believe they're even required once in the entire game (bombs rocks are very easy to farm and can be used to break crystal walls) While their combat prowess is good, again, due to the 3 type limit, I feel like Rock bois often find themselves taking the backseat in favor of Purples, which offer a lot more. While the overlap on paper isn't huge, Purples just offer much more than Rocks do directly to justify Rocks over them, or reds for that matter.. Once again, this is a product of the 3 type limit. I'd just bump them right behind 4Reds, personally. Yellow Pikmin really got the hit the hardest by Oatchi imo. While the digging speed is great, Oatchi is also a very fast digger, though I don't believe he's as fast as a decent squad of Yellows. They really should have not given Oatchi the ability to knock stuff down, that would have saved Yellows a ton, and even help Pinks. White Pikmin need their speed to get the Yellow digging effect. Give them STUPID fast speed like you said and it fixes the issues right there imo. Kind of broke my heart to see them only barely climb of the rut 3 left them in.
I'd like to note that the Crystal Walls can still be broken with bomb rocks and even the Pebble Pitcher (player 2). Oatchi also can't pull down the draw-bridge clipboard things (whatever they're called) and he can't get a few of the very specific treasures that only Winged Pikmin can reach. So technically you can complete most of the game without Pikmin using ONLY Oatchi, but there are some things he can't do (he's still 100% OP though).
29:29 The reason Pikipedia states they're resistant to getting buried is because they get sent into the state that state Rock Pikmin are in when "crushed" on soft surfaces in 4 and on all surfaces in 3, not actually turning them into a sprout that has to be plucked. They also are resistant to mud as they can swim in it freely without dying.
Hey, knew it would be one simple change to Pikmin that would make a blues OP water bubbles you know those bubbles that Pickman can be trapped in have them feel drowning damage and also have some enemies be inside like sure you can throw a lot of ice at it and it can freeze, but that will take a while. Why not just charge blues
What if they gave white pikmin poison damage against enemies? They could fill up a meter like ice pikmin that drains and deals damage over time. That way, you could whistle them back before they kill they enemy and let the poison finish the enemy off. Just an idea.
This has probably been brought up, but while Oatchi can’t get past crystal gates, bombs can, and Oatchi can use those. Meanwhile, you still need Purples to completely clear the game.
If I had to make some changes to make Pikmin 4 overall a little more balanced I would: =Leave Red Pikmin as they are, I think they are fine. +I think Yellow Pikmin are also fine on their own, their main flaw is just that a lot of situations where they would be useful can be solved by using Oatchi or other Pikmin. I would make the "high" enemies be higher from the ground and have less predictable movement, such as making the Puffy Blowhog oscillate up and down, making Yellows more consistent for dealing with them. Maybe also limit what Oatchi can knock to the ground because it's unintuitive sometimes anyways. They could always make electricity more dangerous too, making it kill faster than the other "panic" hazards considering how easy it is to whistle electrocuted Pikmin since they are left completely still. +Every other Pikmin has some kind of combat utility, whereas blues are limited to "they fight good in water" which doesn't make them useful in any other situation. I think giving them some kind of universal "defensive" ability would be unique as that's something no other Pikmin really has. Maybe something like having a chance to slip out of enemy attacks due to their slickness, and maybe recovering faster after being knocked down/shaken off. Idk I'm the least confident on this one but it could be worth a shot. -Make it so Purples only do contact damage if they complete the animation of their ground pound. I think this would keep them in line with Red Pikmin and Rock Pikmin a little better, and add some emphasis on properly accounting for their lower throw arc. +Give Whites their standard damage back. I really think that's all they need, but I also think the idea of making poison more dangerous could be cool. Maybe they could make it so that Pikmin panicking from poison will then spread that poison to other Pikmin they pass by, making poison much more dangerous and hard to control. +Make it so Rock Pikmin overall do more damage when thrown. I thought in Pikmin 3 Rock Pikmin were well designed in that their throwing mechanics provided for a completely unique combat style, and it's a little less interesting imo that they are strictly charge-bots in Pikmin 4. I would also make it so rocks never can get crushed. The hard surfaces thing just feels unnecessary and inconsistent when every other type except wings (unless you count falling down holes) have a complete hazard resistance of their own. Maybe to counterbalance this they could make it so that once "crushed," Rock Pikmin have to be replucked, or make it so if they are crushed while buried THEN they will die. +Make it so Winged Pikmin have actual pathfinding. I'm not sure if the current pathfinding is an intentional nerf or just laziness due to the size of areas, but it makes them feel less useful for their main unique task. -I think it's ok for Ice Pikmin to be strong because they are the new type, are fun to use, and synergize well with other Pikmin. I would just make it so they take a tad bit longer to freeze enemies, especially larger ones. +I think due to their unique purpose Glow Pikmin are allowed to op. One thing I would change though is make it so that if you manually dismiss Glow Pikmin they won't teleport to you unless whistled. This isn't a problem in night mode, but in caves it can be annoying if you want to leave Glows behind and solo a section with another type (probably rocks) but they keep teleporting to you. I also think that Pikmin availability should be altered. You can get the primary colored onions in the very first area, and then after that you go through two areas without getting any new onions at all. I'd put the rock onion in the second area and the winged onion in the third area, and give more opportunities to naturally get wild Whites and Purples without farming. I could see how this is disagreeable, but I think Purple, Rock, and especially White and Winged Pikmin feel like after thoughts for a lot of the game. Thank you for reading my epic pikposting.
Honestly just make blues op underwater since their the only ones ( besides glowmin) that can go under water, their dig speed? 6x multiplyer underwater, there attack strength? 1.5 or maybe 2.0 or 2.5 underwater just to give them something! Plus the strength buffs would help make them more useful for water fights than ice pikmin in some scenarios. Maybe after a blue pikmin emerges from water, we use silohawks idea and they have 1.5 attack strength temporarily Maybe if pikmin 4 had random weather like 3, or 5 brings back the weather, whenever It rains blues get 1.5 attack strength, or maybe in snowy conditions ice pikmin go from 0.5 to 1.0 I just feel like weather based effects on more pikmin would be nice.
I feel like you somewhat overstated oatchi’s skills, because most of the things you list take most of the game to unlock, so you won’t have all those abilities until a majority through the game.
In one of the Pikmin short films, a white pikmin is seen spitting acid to melt down metal objects. I believe that giving them this ability would not only make them more useful, but allow for more puzzles as well (like melting the right support beams to make a bridge, that sort of thing). Also giving them the best digging speed would be a good choice as you mentioned. It’d be especially fitting considering that one of whites original abilities was digging up hidden treasure.
I think what you may of overlooked here is the color of Blue Pikmin in this game. Blue Pikmin in 4 are the *absolute* most *perfect* shade of blue, and therefor deserved the Spot
So some slight corrections regarding cold environments, when Pikmin shiver you don't need to whistle them, they'll simply return to idle after a few seconds, which mostly is just a distinction since it means they can still carry non-pile objects, it just takes longer since they'll stop every now and then to shiver, then go idle and promptly return to carrying due to proximity. Also, you don't need Oatchi to prevent shivering, though he is the most convenient/efficient method, as having a red carry a fire starter will also prevent shivering, which I believe extends to all Pikmin in your current squad, though I haven't tested it.
I feel like a good way to balance the clash of blues and ice would be to just have them be the same pikmin but by going into a ice cave or interacting with fire you could change what form they were in
If I were working on the next Pikmin game, I would definitely give whites an x3 movement and digging speed multiplier. Whites are my favorite pikmin, and I would buff poison to kill pikmin in the same time fire killed pikmin in the first game.
My take on Pinks in Pikmin 4 is that the new designs and layouts of the overworld make them a LOT less useful, but they're still king in caves at least. Even outside of caves with bottomless pits, lots of caves have elevations up and down so they really shine in the more traditional Pikmin environments, as opposed to Pikmin 4's unique surface layouts.
I pretty much completely agree with your list aside from the fact I think Purples in 4 are better than ice Pikmin as I would prefer to have them in combat with their much faster kill time at the very least I would’ve put them in low S tier
I know this is 9 months old, but the faster killers are rock pikmin which a squad of 100 can kill almost every boss in one blow on impact. I think rock are S tier cos they also have tons of immunities.
I almost completely agree with this tierlist, especially that they really did Winged Pikmin dirty 😢 The only thing I really disagree with is that Oatchi replaces the need for other Pikmin types; the reason I disagree is that the main issue with Oatchi being sent out to a task essentially removes him as a 2nd Captain until he finishes that task. Although Pikmin 4 doesn't have a timer (excluding battles and challenges), I still try to play the game wasting as little days/time as possible and find him best to use as a 2nd captain with unique traits and flaws rather than using him as a super buff Ultra-Pikmin that is immune to most hazards. Sure he can attack and carry pretty much anything in the game, but you only have 1 Oatchi. Using Oatchi on a task I found only useful after all my other Pikmin I gave to Oatchi are already busy with a task, meaning Oatchi can help by carrying a large item or digging something while Pikmin-less. I also think whites ended up being in my party quite frequently on my 100% playthrough, mostly when pairing Whites with Ice Pikmin or Purples. I found for me these made great combos which elevate the usefulness of whites tremendously. Since whites act almost like a polar opposite in strengths and weakness with Purple Pikmin, any downsides one type may have at a task (especially when carrying), the other will excel at. For the Ice Pikmin combo, being able to freeze a body of water for white pikmin to cross makes their speed difference to Winged Pikmin outshine Winged Pikmin's usefulness. Especially since I never really need to freeze multiple bodies of water for white pikmin to take the quickest route to the base and I usually freeze the water ahead of time so freezing didn't slow things down much. For me I think if Winged Pikmin pathing was updated or new maps were added that introduce many bodies of hazards in-between points of interest and the base, Winged Pikmin would be tremendously useful... But I must admit, after seeing how terrible their pathing was while in Giant's Hearth, After that I mainly used a White and Ice combo when my tasklist included gathering parts over water/mud hazards, especially since I usually have Ice Pikmin in my party anyways... so the 3 Pikmin type limit doesn't really matter. Other than that though, everything you said in this video I wholeheartedly agree with. On my 100% playthrough I specifically avoided using too many Glow Pikmin for the sole reason I was afraid their usefulness would wreck the experience of the game. Amazing video!
What if blue pikmin were to do damage based on their leaf state? They can be as powerful as reds when they are flowered, do normal as buds and weak as leaves. However they have one other perk. If they stay in any body of water long enough or get hit with a water hazard their flowers grow back automatically. This means they can still be useful on land till they get shaken off but can easily recharge by going into a body of water. Similar to how glow pikmin grow flowers over time blues just need to swim a little to get their flowers. I think the flower system works well since it doesn't replace reds entirely since being shaken off means losing power and reds maintain consitancy over blues. The main benefit is that blues can take advantage of any body of water and not worry about it as a hazard and can use shortcuts reds cant take while also not completely weakening the team when out on the dry land.
Honestly, I feel that they could really buff white pikmin by giving them the ability to do poison damage to enemies, making them similar to ice pikmin in the way that their base damage is low but they have an effect to make up for it. Also, maybe to call back to their digging ability from two, somehow add special underground shortcuts that only whites can take due to being able to see them with their infrared eyes or something (along with just increasing their move speed). I like the whole idea of giving pikmin unique effects to make them better rather than just increasing their stats, so wanted to just state some random ideas.
13:45 I believe if you ungroup with your pikmin, and there's something next to them to do, they'll automatically do that job. So, if you dismiss pinks in water, I believe that works just the same as charging/throwing as long as they're close enough.
A couple things you seem to have missed: Purples have an AOE slam that damages everything around where they slam on the ground, most noticeable in One Fell Jump; Ice pikmin die faster to ALL hazards; Wings/Pinks are the only type that can carry items that are in mud, ice can float on it but they can't pick anything up, and freezing the mud would freeze the item in place; Glows automatically grow flowers over time and never lose them until you glowmob, they also teleport when you swap between oatchi and your captain; bomb rocks can break crystal walls, so you can beat the game without rocks, Rock pikmin also deal their impact damage when oatchi rushes an enemy, unlike purples.
28:15 >> Well, the other downside is that they make the enemies' corpses get eviscarated from the universe, so no Pikmin multiplying or any other bonuses you get from carrying stuff to the Onion (at least imo, as the drops after freezing an enemy aren't that useful considering there's more than enough eggs and Ultra Spicy Spray in the game itself anyway) Nevertheless great video, I really enjoyed the deep research you did to get your facts correct for this :)
.. I think this is truly the first video where the creator references another of his videos, and directs the audience to a specific labeled chapter. this hasn't happened, for every single video I've watched since TH-cam added the chapters feature. anyways cool vid :)
There are actually two other conditions in which Rock Pikmin can be crushed: if they are frozen & if it's an elemental type crush attack like those from Scorchcakes and the like.
Whites are honestly pretty good in pikmin 4 because of the fact that they have an onion. Take fifty whites to a SOVEREIGN BULBLAX and it’s dead then you can take that back to the onion and get almost all back 💀
Yknow, I think the lifesaving feature was removed because unlike in pikmin 1 (I haven't played 2 yet) water is much deeper, as opposed to pikmin 1's more shallow water that gives blues the range to lifesave
Hear me out: Blue pikmin are more useful in a way. That way is them not being required which invalidates your small key argument, because Oatchi can do everything that the blue pikmin can do, making blue pikmin more useful and efficient underwater
Make your own Pikmin tier list using the assets from this video!
tiermaker.com/create/pikmin-types-1-4-labeled-15756439
Add the hey pikmin pikmin types
I doing a run with no upgrades, oatchi and no items on enemy's. So max oatchi is sss teir while no upgrade oatchi is f tier
@@Lordbowser666 e tier
If you use player 2 while in the drone, you can kill almost anything completely safely, and they can break walls, including crystal, and dig, making EVERY TYPE completely redundant. I mean, why even play the game at that point? There’s no struggle anymore…
@@DOGEKByou realise there are only 5 Pikmin types that are level specific so idk if it would work as you are forced to use different Pikmin for different levels
Winged Pikmin's nerf via pathfinding is such a bizarre trait, I remember that I got so confused by Winged Pikmin not carrying treasures atop the Hearth *DUE TO A CLIMBING WALL NOT BEING BUILT*
Seems like just like PIkmin 3's overnerffing of purples and whites, they probably didn't want players to default to the previous types so they nerfed Pinks and to a lesser extent rocks. I can see the nerf being necessary to not completely obsolete blues...and like everything else, but having PInks be the literal last pikmin you find if the game kind of should've made them the "reward" for seeing the game through like the purple onion was.
@MarioMastar I can't really agree with it being "necessary"
Between sprinklers and more Submerged areas blues already have places where they're needed
By comparison, Wings always mostly boiled down to being good carriers, but now between all their associated objects (flukeweeds, bamboo gates, etc) being gone, and the 3 pikmin limit they're pretty much completely inferior to Whites thanks to rarely taking any shortcuts when carrying
Rock and winged in Pikmin 4 seem to me like an extra. They have some caves and dandori challenges to shine, but they are not that useful in the overworld, in my opinion. On my first playthrough I had like ten rock Pikmin before unlocking their onion, and it was the sixth onion type that I found. In the last zone I used a lot of winged, though.
bugs (in real life) in fact, cannot fly infinitely high. why would winged pikmin be able to? their pathing's fine.
I feel like they probably just didn’t put nearly as much time into winged Pikmin pathfinding as in 3 (where they were one of the main new types)
And honestly, because they’re unlocked later in the game and there’s a limit on how many types you can have out, there isn’t usually much reason to use winged Pikmin in 4. Bit sad really
The canon reason that yellows dig faster is because of their ears. They act like shovels allowing them to go much quicker than any other pikmin. Don't know if you were asking why they can dig faster balance wise or canon wise
When pikmin 3 first came out and I heard about the dig speed that’s what I always thought
And being the only ones with ears makes the fact that they are the only ones with a different digging speed logical. White Pikmin being faster overall could have 2x digging speed, though. Not as fast as yellows but faster than base speed.
IIRC There's a log in 2 that mentions their intense curiosity motivates them to seek high ground and dig faster. They want to see what they can/what they have found.
It doesn't mention it but it would also explain the affinity for Bomb Rocks in 1 too. The other types would be weary of something new and dangerous while Yellows would want to investigate.
Note this doesn't disprove the ears thing. As example 1's logs say Reds are the strongest because of their fiery spirit without mentioning their noses and we know better now.
Ear shovels
Oh wow, I never thought about it like that. Kinda like how reds have the damage multiplier because of the sharp nose
4 Purples are also extremely useful during the final bossfight, only requiring you to throw 2 on the tail to knock it over.
This statement also applies to the Crusted Rumpup, and Foolix too!
@@xray8012
You can also use Oachi to tear the Goolix apart.
A high enough buff stat and that thing flies apart.
i like having purples for throwing and rocks for oatchi rush
Yellows are more useful since they can grab the tail regardless of how high it is, so you don't have to wait for the boss to lower it.
A feat Winged Pikmin CAN'T do for some (dumb) reason.
@@xray8012 You can also deal with the Foolix by just charging Ice pikmin straight in there, because even when stuck in the Foolix they'll still freeze it.
I just realized, the only ever change to a Red Pikmins traits is the fire starters, since they were the same in 1,2 and 3
Also the standardization of Pikmin dig speed
and sizzling floors.
@@Zaniack0422 that's more of an obstacle
1.5 attack is all the buff needed tbh
Another funny thing about ice pikmin is that when you manage to time freezing the enemy with hitting them with Oatchi's charge the enemy is technically counted as airborne due to the little "hop" they do on impact, thus instantly being killed when falling to the ground. This is a quick way to deal with Moss in Hero's Hideaway for example.
The reason I believe Yellow Pikmin are the best diggers is because the devs likes to incorporate the physical biology of the Pikmin's design into their in-game attributes. For example the "reason" Red have higher attack power is because they actually stab the enemies with their pointy noses. Likewise, yellow Pikmin fly higher because they use their ears to make themselves aerodynamic, Blues can breathe underwater because their "mouths" are actually gills, Purples are obviously big bois so they can carry more, Whites (could) detect treasures underground because of their eyes being able to detect infrared. I would assume the idea is that yellows are probably using their ears like Shovels.
It’s still pretty silly, I mean, their ears are a floppy membrane, it shouldn’t be that good for digging. Just make Yellow Pikmin able to be thrown farther as well as higher and give the dig speed to the White Pikmin.
I'm glad the A tier Pikmin are high-fiveing each other now. Everybody needs to be hyped up sometimes!
And all the others in A their is starting into your soul
“give me some sugar, bro!”
@@purrrduck That's just how they show they care
"Let's go we got A tier!"
Glow Pikmin are such a strength that during night missions, the game will ask you to potentially fight two Smoky Proggs at once, while in other scenarios one Smokey Progg is a serious final-dungeon threat. Having a full squad of Glow with you is the equivalent of two full squads of Pikmin of your choice.
You can actually rush the eggs for smoky proggs before they spawn. They even give the same amount of pellets as when they are defeated
Stuns are huge lmao 😊
Glow-mob and auto-return easily make them my personal favorites
Glow pikmin are game changing, that 5 difficulty night mission was very hard for me, imagine doing it with normal pikmin
4:30 There is one boss where you absolutely need Purple Pikmin, so they have something that Oatchi cannot do. But on the flipside, the crystal gates can be broken with bombs so Oatchi can technically get through those without needing Rock Pikmin.
I also think it's worth noting that Glow Pikmin will bloom over time, so it's easy to get them all flowered without needing to use a spray or gathering nectar. Though they do lose their flowers when used in a glowmob.
I am pretty sure that glow pikmin are the best way to cheese the "bloom a bunch of pikmin" sidequest.
@@redstonewarrior0152 That's correct, you can even go to the Burrow of Beginnings in the base camp area, sprout a single Glow Pikmin and use it to progress the quest over and over, meaning a single Glow Seed can technically earn you 30 material without passing any days.
That boss you Need purple pikmin for can be done with ice blasts and bomb rocks.
You can actually kill it with ice bombs and oatchi
I think Pikmin 4's level design does a lot of heavy lifting. Dandori missions forcing certain Pikmin gives you a better idea of their strengths and weaknesses than playing casually. For example, the Level 5 of the bonus cave was such a tight time limit I had to carefully pick which items got the white Pikmin.
Oh yeah, true
Small detail you missed, Ice Pikmin are the only Pikmin ever that die faster to one hazard than other Pikmin types: They die TWICE as fast to FIRE.
One thing that wasn't mentioned about purples is their earthquake attack.
A lot of enemies that only certain Pikmin types with certain immunites could fight aren't a problem for them; you'd only need to throw them next to an enemy since they deal damage from the shockwave.
though said shock wave is difficult to pull off due to the stupid auto-lock feature, so it sadly doesn't come into play as often as you want, especially in the one dandori challenge where you have to use purples to slaughter bulborb larva, but the auto-lock ends up making the challenge harder than it needs to be due that thing canceling the purples shockwave attack for some reason.
Seeing the Bulbear at 28:56 attacking the Lumiknoll gave me PTSD of the sound that starts to play when an enemy starts attacking the Lumiknoll
Yes
Another problem with ice pikmin is that freezing enemies in dandori challenges means you can't bring them back after defeating them, losing you points
i'm pretty sure that frozen enemies' points are removed from the points you need for platinum
@@maurobrugnaletti8052 They are, but you can still get the platinum through the time bonus once you've cleared the level, so it's mostly inconsequential.
I think you can still make it to platinum if you finish with enough time left over to make up for points lost from freezing enemies
That is incorrect@@maurobrugnaletti8052
It doesn’t matter because you can still get platinum without them as long as your time bonus is high enough to make up the difference. In fact, it’s often preferable to freeze and shatter enemies because the time bonus gained by not having to carry them back is greater than the points you would get from them.
I think some things that deserved more of a mention are the three type limit and availability.
One reason I believe Ice Pikmin to be the strongest regular pikmin type is how available they are. If you enter every cave, you'll almost certain always have more than your pikmin limit of ice pikmin. You can leave Sun Speckled Terrace with like 80 pikmin with no grinding. Besides that, ice pikmin are the recommended type for 5/6 areas of the game, so there's almost never any drawback to bringing them everywhere you go. Ice pikmin also auto generate spicy sprays for you which is one of the biggest reasons they're so busted.
Availability is also important to bring up with caves since caves will always provide all the pikmin you need to collect every treasure iirc. This is almost always with wild pikmin too, so you don't have to worry about candypop buds generally.
That's a big reason I'd like to actually propose that red pikmin are A tier. Since they now have the same attack strength as purples, you're generally not actually going to see a massive difference in performance when you're using oatchi (almost always). They'll both shred through any enemies they come across, but you can so quickly gain full parties of red pikmin in the early game, they'll probably be a more opposing force with charging and rushing. Fire is also back to the most dangerous hazard in 4, so reds also get an indirect buff there. Since items weren't mentioned, I would like to quickly mention that the bundled hay is the only obstacle that you can't circumvent with items and Oatchi combined.
In general, I think purples and rocks might want to be lowered a bit. It's largely just due to the fact that carrying them above ground is generally not important since they aren't required for any treasures there, and ice pikmin make most enemies there harmless enough anyways. I'd wager that the few enemies ice pikmin won't dominate above ground are actually easily taken down by winged pikmin instead. Purples are massively useful during the final boss which I think is worth mentioning.
In general, I find what makes a pikmin great in 4 is how well they work in the early game and how well they play around Oatchi in the late game. That's personally why I'd put winged and red pikmin much higher than most people.
These Pikmin videos have been interesting to watch as a non-player just for the Blue’s arc in each game
PLAY IT
You forgot to mention that ice pikmin can make you ultra spicy nectar when a frozen enemy dies
Oatchi upgrades are so important in 4 that without any there are some Dandori challenges that are literally impossible to platinum without them.
Keyword: "Platinum"
Other keyword: "some"
@@FriendlyNeighborhoodNoob I know, I just beat my no upgrades run, but Trial 10 was with 0 seconds left and I've gotten platinum on every Dandori Challenge before. Even on trial 5 I just barely missed it.
@@Side_N0te props to you for completing them
Wait, Trial 10 is doable without the 100 strenght?
@@yurei4414Yes, but it means leaving a lot of Pikmin and all your Purples to lift the onion, and only having a bunch of Ice to fight the enemies on the way
(Mad respect for you calling Winged Pikmin "Pinks", I wish new types were still called by their colors.) This is a nice tier list video overall and serves as a great analysis of 4's game design, I learned a lot from this video (I didn't know you could cheese sprinklers, or even consider the fact that you could freeze the water in the Baldy Long Legs room in the last cave to cheese it). Those poor white Pikmin...
I will argue that the inability to dismiss Glow Pikmin is a double edged sword. I had numerous occurrences where I'd spawn them in a cave and eventually encounter an enemy more suited for Rocks (or another specific type), making me want to dismiss my Glows.... but the little rascals will NOT stay put, leading to frustration and unnecessary deaths in some cases.
Night mode really could use an endless mode too. I like how you brought that up.
Wings are pinks so rocks should be called grays by this definition.
@@keypiece9764
Rocks are more black than gray.
We should call rock pikmin blacks.
Totally.
That and, light blue pikmin is a pain to say.
@@redstonewarrior0152 You could call them cyan pikmins while glow pikmins could be lime.
@@ThePapermario24
The thought of calling Glowies "Limes" makes me wonder what they taste like 🤔
Fun Fact: The reason Blue Pikmin are always shown suffering in Nintendo's marketing is because they have _mouths,_ which do a better job of showing sadness or fear then the Pikmin types with no mouth.
19:32 something you forgot to mention was that purples can break crystals on enemies. I discovered this because I like going the the piklopidia and killing everything with 100 purples
2:21 - I really like the way SilokHawk uses game clips to articulate his points.
a minor thing you missed for ice and purples, is that they are immune to bubble hazards, it's not uber common but it's something nice, with purples being too heavy and ice pikmin freezing the bubble, as for glow pikmin they also can't fall to their deaths should you miss a throw and throw one into the abyss, as they just teleport back too you (why winged Pikmin don't do this as well is unknown)
WINGED PIKMIN DON'T?
@@EnheTook50Benadryl they don't, and if you think that's horseshit, you are completely right, they have wings for a reason and you're telling me they can't fly out of a hole.
I'm not very familiar with Pikmin in general but people joked about this game never happening for so long that my initial reaction to seeing the title is that the game still doesn't exist
I have begun to get interested in it, maybe I'll play the series someday...
GO PICK SOME MIN RIGHT NOW
Play the demo for 4
3 Deluxe and 4 both have demos on the eShop. Get picking.
go buy 4, or i will fiddlebert blast you.
don['t play 4, it sucks ass. any of the first three games are fantastic and more than worth your time, please try them out someday.
4:33, I thought so too, but if you count bomb rocks, crystal walls can easily be destroyed, which invalidates rock pikmin as well :(
bomb rocks invalidate pretty much all pikmin types if you're a psycho and grind for a lot of them
Minor point in rocks' favor: Frozen enemies take less damage from all types... except for Rocks. Rock Pikmin deal their full damage to frozen enemies.
Bigger point in their favor: You don't need to charge them, they can instakill enemies when paired with Oatchi's Rush as well. This lets them hit enemies with elevated weak points, such as the cannon beetle from your example clip.
Crushing is also the primary damage type that now instakills. This means they're immune to the current most dangerous damage type.
@Rhy2412TitanGamer well, sometimes
Enemies that crush with an elemental effect (like the Cake family on their one side) or getting crushed on "hard" surfaces will still kill Rocks
It doesn't come up all the time, but they aren't fully safe compared to 3
@@OriginalGameteer This is true. Sorry for sounding disingenuous.
I feel that they should have Blue Pikmin act as a means to have other Pikmin be able to go underwater. Like they evolved to act as air supply to other Pikmin.
or like Smash bros which gave blue pikmin stronger throwing in lieu of not doing any "water damage" (since water only pushes and that'd be awkward given Olimar's playstyle), they could incorporate that. Like make it so Blues can't be flung off enemies as easily and/or slow enemies down slightly by "weighting them down with water". Something to give blues a bit of a combat edge over reds. Though like your suggestion, maybe having blues carry stuff through water significantly faster and retain the speed would be interesting. Like if they get wet, their speed triples and stays until they deposit the item to incentivize using them over pinks. but I think slowing enemies would be useful, the more blues on the enemy the slower their animations and movement making them less risky to deal with and giving them a niche over ices.
But what would you even use it for ? I mean, sure Oatchi can't dive with pikmin on his back, but there isn't enough interesting stuff underwater to bring the other types there. Also what is so important that you would take the other other types underwater? I can get reds, rocks and purples (are the underwater enemies even tough enough to feel the need to use them?) but what would the others be useful for? Yellows so you can ....... aim further?(no seriously do you have any concept for how they could be used there?)Maybe underwater whites could make more sense but they still aren't interesting enough to have them there. And if you just want to transport them to the other side why can't you use Oatchi ?! Look, what im trying to say here is: because of Oatchi this upgrade to blues wouldn't work in this game, maybe in Pikmin 5 but not in this game.
Make blues more useless cus it’s funny asf
@@panwasacz2733
There are a few bodies of water where you can't bring oatchi into without first completing some task.
Such as the body of water you find the Moai figurine in.
That is one way to think about bringing other pikmin.
You have a point though.
It's also worth mentionning that you can charge at the front of a poison (moldy) enemy to kill it. Sometimes, a small group wont be affected by the poison before it's dead.
So "moldy" enemies are even less of a threat.
23:50 And it even applied in 3 since in Twilight River, the place you unlock pinks, when you have a spicy berry plant on the other side of the river, they'd take the lily pad even though they fly, like dude you have wings, use them, maybe they find it fun, IDK.
I watched your previous tier list yesterday, and the way Blues are only really used when the game forces you to. To make them better, either the devs go out of their way to make blues carry objects back faster through bodies of water (which can just be solved with ice pikmin, oatchi or wings) or what I thought of, a way to help in combat.
My idea was literally: if Blues have webbed hands and feet from swimming so much, it could give them a stronger grip on enemies, that reduces their likeability of being shaken off. It doesn't encroach on other pikmin's skills, and gives another alternative to reds and rocks as an attack style. They'd probably need a damage nerf but hey could work
Another drawback of ice pikmin is that they don't leave bodies when enemys are killed, so if you wanna get more pikmin don't use ice.
I think freezing enemies was supposed to be a downside because when an enemy shatters, it doesn't leave a corpse behind. But there's so many other ways to grow your army that sometimes I prefer that outcome - keeps the pathways clear!
It is helpful in dándole though, since you don't have an onion you can shatter the small enemies to get nectar instead and score even a higher score that you could when you don't, because that speed your pikmins up and those enemies are worth basically nothing
The part with the Baldy Long Leg and how you happen to have ice pikmin when it was in a puddle straight up made me have a revelation. Next playthrough, I'll do just that.
5:31 whats funny about that flarlic is theres a specific angle you can use to just barely throw reds up there so even here yellows arent needed lol
Blue Pikmin are strong in multitasking underwater, right? Maybe they should have an ability relegated to that, like them swimming a treasure to the surface at top speed before comedically dropping it and sliding it to land and moving to carry it normally again.
This is the first time I've ever heard someone mention "Raid: Shadow Legends" in a video and actually appreciated it. Hat tip.
It's such a well-timed joke that I couldn't help but replay that bit again
Like how red pikmin use their sharp noses to deal extra damage, yellow pikmin use their large ears to dig faster
I was doing an oatchi only run of pikmin 4 (just to olimar not the post game) and the only things I couldn’t get using oatchi and player 2 was treasures on spiderwebs that you have to drag down with pikmin, metal gates you have to drag down with pikmin , bags you have to compress, and the dials on the safe. (The Crystal walls can be broken with bombs)
I agree with a large majority of the list, great job 👍. My only suggestion is bumping up 4's Yellows, because of the three Pikmin type limit their usefulness in a variety of scenarios helps the fact that the aren't the best in all scenarios, so you're still likely to have them around
You, Antdude and Arlo are my pikmin youtube trifecta and you all make me so happy and giddy when you are passionate about Pikmin.
Putting 3's Wings in S tier was the right move. Literally beat the tropical wilds without building that bridge connected to the big chunk of land because wings are so powerful!
You mentioned Pinks having really bad pathing, and I couldn't agree more. Sage Leaf trial 5 is the best example.
Pikmin 4 is epic
Yes
Pikmin 4
Big agree
I never played it yet
Changes i would make to every pikmin type
Red Pikmin:
- Should be able to latch on to enemies more effectively, (I.e. an enemy will have to shake them more than once to get them off) this will separate them from rocks and purples
Yellows Pikmin:
- should be able to be thrown further as well as higher.
- They should also be able to destroy walls faster in addition to their higher digging speed
-should once again be the only type to carry bomb rocks
Blue Pikmin:
- Silokhawk's idea i guess
Purples Pikmin:
- should regain all of their abilities from pikmin 2,
- will be thrown MUCH slower (I.e you cant spam throw them), this way you cant stun lock enemies and will separate them from rocks
-can only be obtained from candy pop buds, and 5 pikmin thrown in will only grant one purple
White Pikmin:
- When they die through non-eating ways they will create a cloud of poison that damages nearby enemies, and will do less damage than when directly eaten
-be given normal attack damage
- when thrown onto enemies they will attack normal, but when idle further away from the enemy they will spit at the enemy, this will do half the DPS as when directly thrown at them
Rock Pikmin: fine the way they are
Winged Pikmin:
- should get their old pikmin 3 ai back
-carry weight would be reduced to 1/2
Ice Pikmin:
- When attacking an enemy they wont freeze it, but will instead slow it down. Enemies will only be frozen solid when they eat them
Glow pikmin/bulbmin:
- Will NOT be able to carry items
-will have .5 attack damage
Oatchi:
- HES TOO DANGROUS TO BE LEFT ALIVE
Do you mean all items or just items with more than one pikmin needed?
There's also the fact that glow pikmin grow their flowers over time rather than requiring ultra spicy spray or nectar.
9:45 actually Blues can travel underwater while Oatchi can’t. And there are some instances of underwater travel in the game.
With upgrades Oatchi sort of can, tho it's limited to him swimming underwater to attack or collect something when the player sends him to
Otherwise yeah he stays on the surface
Super happy to see a follow up to this, the previous tier list is one of the best Pikmin videos imo. I'd like to share some of my opinions:
Another point for Purples in 4 is the 3 type limit. It benefits them the most. Having Purples carry with the strength of 10 is more useful now than it ever was imo, as rationing your Pikmin is vital this time around. Purples feel honestly perfect this time imo. Very strong, useful and "above average" but not too OP.
I feel like Rocks are also a bit too rare in 4 to be that high imo. While they are good, you get them so late in the game, and I don't believe they're even required once in the entire game (bombs rocks are very easy to farm and can be used to break crystal walls) While their combat prowess is good, again, due to the 3 type limit, I feel like Rock bois often find themselves taking the backseat in favor of Purples, which offer a lot more. While the overlap on paper isn't huge, Purples just offer much more than Rocks do directly to justify Rocks over them, or reds for that matter.. Once again, this is a product of the 3 type limit. I'd just bump them right behind 4Reds, personally.
Yellow Pikmin really got the hit the hardest by Oatchi imo. While the digging speed is great, Oatchi is also a very fast digger, though I don't believe he's as fast as a decent squad of Yellows. They really should have not given Oatchi the ability to knock stuff down, that would have saved Yellows a ton, and even help Pinks.
White Pikmin need their speed to get the Yellow digging effect. Give them STUPID fast speed like you said and it fixes the issues right there imo. Kind of broke my heart to see them only barely climb of the rut 3 left them in.
I'd like to note that the Crystal Walls can still be broken with bomb rocks and even the Pebble Pitcher (player 2). Oatchi also can't pull down the draw-bridge clipboard things (whatever they're called) and he can't get a few of the very specific treasures that only Winged Pikmin can reach. So technically you can complete most of the game without Pikmin using ONLY Oatchi, but there are some things he can't do (he's still 100% OP though).
Im glad you made a sequel to that one video
29:29 The reason Pikipedia states they're resistant to getting buried is because they get sent into the state that state Rock Pikmin are in when "crushed" on soft surfaces in 4 and on all surfaces in 3, not actually turning them into a sprout that has to be plucked.
They also are resistant to mud as they can swim in it freely without dying.
resistance to being buried seems a bit misleading when a word such as "squashed" or "planted" would be more clear
@@montelblair7273 I don't see how those would be any more clear. Squashing implies crushing and planted implies turning into a sprout.
Hey, knew it would be one simple change to Pikmin that would make a blues OP water bubbles you know those bubbles that Pickman can be trapped in have them feel drowning damage and also have some enemies be inside like sure you can throw a lot of ice at it and it can freeze, but that will take a while. Why not just charge blues
What if they gave white pikmin poison damage against enemies? They could fill up a meter like ice pikmin that drains and deals damage over time. That way, you could whistle them back before they kill they enemy and let the poison finish the enemy off. Just an idea.
Thanks for making the tier maker!
This has probably been brought up, but while Oatchi can’t get past crystal gates, bombs can, and Oatchi can use those. Meanwhile, you still need Purples to completely clear the game.
If I had to make some changes to make Pikmin 4 overall a little more balanced I would:
=Leave Red Pikmin as they are, I think they are fine.
+I think Yellow Pikmin are also fine on their own, their main flaw is just that a lot of situations where they would be useful can be solved by using Oatchi or other Pikmin. I would make the "high" enemies be higher from the ground and have less predictable movement, such as making the Puffy Blowhog oscillate up and down, making Yellows more consistent for dealing with them. Maybe also limit what Oatchi can knock to the ground because it's unintuitive sometimes anyways. They could always make electricity more dangerous too, making it kill faster than the other "panic" hazards considering how easy it is to whistle electrocuted Pikmin since they are left completely still.
+Every other Pikmin has some kind of combat utility, whereas blues are limited to "they fight good in water" which doesn't make them useful in any other situation. I think giving them some kind of universal "defensive" ability would be unique as that's something no other Pikmin really has. Maybe something like having a chance to slip out of enemy attacks due to their slickness, and maybe recovering faster after being knocked down/shaken off. Idk I'm the least confident on this one but it could be worth a shot.
-Make it so Purples only do contact damage if they complete the animation of their ground pound. I think this would keep them in line with Red Pikmin and Rock Pikmin a little better, and add some emphasis on properly accounting for their lower throw arc.
+Give Whites their standard damage back. I really think that's all they need, but I also think the idea of making poison more dangerous could be cool. Maybe they could make it so that Pikmin panicking from poison will then spread that poison to other Pikmin they pass by, making poison much more dangerous and hard to control.
+Make it so Rock Pikmin overall do more damage when thrown. I thought in Pikmin 3 Rock Pikmin were well designed in that their throwing mechanics provided for a completely unique combat style, and it's a little less interesting imo that they are strictly charge-bots in Pikmin 4. I would also make it so rocks never can get crushed. The hard surfaces thing just feels unnecessary and inconsistent when every other type except wings (unless you count falling down holes) have a complete hazard resistance of their own. Maybe to counterbalance this they could make it so that once "crushed," Rock Pikmin have to be replucked, or make it so if they are crushed while buried THEN they will die.
+Make it so Winged Pikmin have actual pathfinding. I'm not sure if the current pathfinding is an intentional nerf or just laziness due to the size of areas, but it makes them feel less useful for their main unique task.
-I think it's ok for Ice Pikmin to be strong because they are the new type, are fun to use, and synergize well with other Pikmin. I would just make it so they take a tad bit longer to freeze enemies, especially larger ones.
+I think due to their unique purpose Glow Pikmin are allowed to op. One thing I would change though is make it so that if you manually dismiss Glow Pikmin they won't teleport to you unless whistled. This isn't a problem in night mode, but in caves it can be annoying if you want to leave Glows behind and solo a section with another type (probably rocks) but they keep teleporting to you.
I also think that Pikmin availability should be altered. You can get the primary colored onions in the very first area, and then after that you go through two areas without getting any new onions at all. I'd put the rock onion in the second area and the winged onion in the third area, and give more opportunities to naturally get wild Whites and Purples without farming. I could see how this is disagreeable, but I think Purple, Rock, and especially White and Winged Pikmin feel like after thoughts for a lot of the game.
Thank you for reading my epic pikposting.
Honestly just make blues op underwater since their the only ones ( besides glowmin) that can go under water, their dig speed? 6x multiplyer underwater, there attack strength? 1.5 or maybe 2.0 or 2.5 underwater just to give them something! Plus the strength buffs would help make them more useful for water fights than ice pikmin in some scenarios.
Maybe after a blue pikmin emerges from water, we use silohawks idea and they have 1.5 attack strength temporarily
Maybe if pikmin 4 had random weather like 3, or 5 brings back the weather, whenever It rains blues get 1.5 attack strength, or maybe in snowy conditions ice pikmin go from 0.5 to 1.0
I just feel like weather based effects on more pikmin would be nice.
I feel like you somewhat overstated oatchi’s skills, because most of the things you list take most of the game to unlock, so you won’t have all those abilities until a majority through the game.
8:04 I thought it was gonna happen when I heard “legends”
7:47
SilokHawk: Dig Speed
Subtitles: *DICK SPEED*
In one of the Pikmin short films, a white pikmin is seen spitting acid to melt down metal objects. I believe that giving them this ability would not only make them more useful, but allow for more puzzles as well (like melting the right support beams to make a bridge, that sort of thing). Also giving them the best digging speed would be a good choice as you mentioned. It’d be especially fitting considering that one of whites original abilities was digging up hidden treasure.
I think what you may of overlooked here is the color of Blue Pikmin in this game. Blue Pikmin in 4 are the *absolute* most *perfect* shade of blue, and therefor deserved the Spot
So some slight corrections regarding cold environments, when Pikmin shiver you don't need to whistle them, they'll simply return to idle after a few seconds, which mostly is just a distinction since it means they can still carry non-pile objects, it just takes longer since they'll stop every now and then to shiver, then go idle and promptly return to carrying due to proximity. Also, you don't need Oatchi to prevent shivering, though he is the most convenient/efficient method, as having a red carry a fire starter will also prevent shivering, which I believe extends to all Pikmin in your current squad, though I haven't tested it.
I think that yellows are so good at digging now because their ears are shaped like shovels.
Also another fun fact about ice pikmin; is that they die to each hazard faster than any other type of pikmin! Bar ice hazards obviously
That’s not true, only to fire.
Does anyone know the song in the background starting from 15:40? It slaps so hard
I’m a simple person.
I see Oatchi, I click
Oatchi sucks
The saga is complete. I'm happy to have hopped into this channel to see it.
I actually edited the glow pikmin page, glow pikmin are immune to getting buried but it’s just like if a rock pikmin gets crushed
I feel like a good way to balance the clash of blues and ice would be to just have them be the same pikmin but by going into a ice cave or interacting with fire you could change what form they were in
That would mess with the lore.
@@redstonewarrior0152since when did we care about Pikmin lore?
@@panwasacz2733
I do it's very well made.
And even then you would just make changing between tye two types extremely tedious
@@panwasacz2733since the first game?
If I were working on the next Pikmin game, I would definitely give whites an x3 movement and digging speed multiplier. Whites are my favorite pikmin, and I would buff poison to kill pikmin in the same time fire killed pikmin in the first game.
Oatchi swallowing a cucumber wasnt what I was expecting from pikmin 4 not gonna lie
Yellow pikmin can dig fast because they use their ears as shovels.
My take on Pinks in Pikmin 4 is that the new designs and layouts of the overworld make them a LOT less useful, but they're still king in caves at least. Even outside of caves with bottomless pits, lots of caves have elevations up and down so they really shine in the more traditional Pikmin environments, as opposed to Pikmin 4's unique surface layouts.
I’m still sad that Bulbmin got replaced by Glow Pikmin.
I've been WAITING for this ever since Pikmin 4 released I loved your other tier list Pikmin video.
I pretty much completely agree with your list aside from the fact I think Purples in 4 are better than ice Pikmin as I would prefer to have them in combat with their much faster kill time at the very least I would’ve put them in low S tier
I know this is 9 months old, but the faster killers are rock pikmin which a squad of 100 can kill almost every boss in one blow on impact. I think rock are S tier cos they also have tons of immunities.
I almost completely agree with this tierlist, especially that they really did Winged Pikmin dirty 😢
The only thing I really disagree with is that Oatchi replaces the need for other Pikmin types; the reason I disagree is that the main issue with Oatchi being sent out to a task essentially removes him as a 2nd Captain until he finishes that task. Although Pikmin 4 doesn't have a timer (excluding battles and challenges), I still try to play the game wasting as little days/time as possible and find him best to use as a 2nd captain with unique traits and flaws rather than using him as a super buff Ultra-Pikmin that is immune to most hazards. Sure he can attack and carry pretty much anything in the game, but you only have 1 Oatchi. Using Oatchi on a task I found only useful after all my other Pikmin I gave to Oatchi are already busy with a task, meaning Oatchi can help by carrying a large item or digging something while Pikmin-less.
I also think whites ended up being in my party quite frequently on my 100% playthrough, mostly when pairing Whites with Ice Pikmin or Purples. I found for me these made great combos which elevate the usefulness of whites tremendously. Since whites act almost like a polar opposite in strengths and weakness with Purple Pikmin, any downsides one type may have at a task (especially when carrying), the other will excel at. For the Ice Pikmin combo, being able to freeze a body of water for white pikmin to cross makes their speed difference to Winged Pikmin outshine Winged Pikmin's usefulness. Especially since I never really need to freeze multiple bodies of water for white pikmin to take the quickest route to the base and I usually freeze the water ahead of time so freezing didn't slow things down much.
For me I think if Winged Pikmin pathing was updated or new maps were added that introduce many bodies of hazards in-between points of interest and the base, Winged Pikmin would be tremendously useful... But I must admit, after seeing how terrible their pathing was while in Giant's Hearth, After that I mainly used a White and Ice combo when my tasklist included gathering parts over water/mud hazards, especially since I usually have Ice Pikmin in my party anyways... so the 3 Pikmin type limit doesn't really matter.
Other than that though, everything you said in this video I wholeheartedly agree with. On my 100% playthrough I specifically avoided using too many Glow Pikmin for the sole reason I was afraid their usefulness would wreck the experience of the game. Amazing video!
I was waiting for this video. Ken up the good work man
Finally, a sequel to your Tier list!!! I’m glad they buffed the Purples back
What if blue pikmin were to do damage based on their leaf state? They can be as powerful as reds when they are flowered, do normal as buds and weak as leaves. However they have one other perk. If they stay in any body of water long enough or get hit with a water hazard their flowers grow back automatically. This means they can still be useful on land till they get shaken off but can easily recharge by going into a body of water. Similar to how glow pikmin grow flowers over time blues just need to swim a little to get their flowers. I think the flower system works well since it doesn't replace reds entirely since being shaken off means losing power and reds maintain consitancy over blues. The main benefit is that blues can take advantage of any body of water and not worry about it as a hazard and can use shortcuts reds cant take while also not completely weakening the team when out on the dry land.
0:35 and Nintendo halted their health in 3 Deluxe!
Honestly, I feel that they could really buff white pikmin by giving them the ability to do poison damage to enemies, making them similar to ice pikmin in the way that their base damage is low but they have an effect to make up for it. Also, maybe to call back to their digging ability from two, somehow add special underground shortcuts that only whites can take due to being able to see them with their infrared eyes or something (along with just increasing their move speed).
I like the whole idea of giving pikmin unique effects to make them better rather than just increasing their stats, so wanted to just state some random ideas.
There is also a neat trick with rocks that you can deal massive burst damage by having them ride oatachi and him ramming into an opponent
Blue and White Pikmin: Please… we’re starving
Purple: I am…. Inevitable…
The pikmin games explanation as to why yellows are the best at digging is their ears
13:45 I believe if you ungroup with your pikmin, and there's something next to them to do, they'll automatically do that job.
So, if you dismiss pinks in water, I believe that works just the same as charging/throwing as long as they're close enough.
A couple things you seem to have missed: Purples have an AOE slam that damages everything around where they slam on the ground, most noticeable in One Fell Jump; Ice pikmin die faster to ALL hazards; Wings/Pinks are the only type that can carry items that are in mud, ice can float on it but they can't pick anything up, and freezing the mud would freeze the item in place; Glows automatically grow flowers over time and never lose them until you glowmob, they also teleport when you swap between oatchi and your captain; bomb rocks can break crystal walls, so you can beat the game without rocks, Rock pikmin also deal their impact damage when oatchi rushes an enemy, unlike purples.
The “Raid Shadow Legends” made me LOL hahaha amazing video
28:15 >> Well, the other downside is that they make the enemies' corpses get eviscarated from the universe, so no Pikmin multiplying or any other bonuses you get from carrying stuff to the Onion (at least imo, as the drops after freezing an enemy aren't that useful considering there's more than enough eggs and Ultra Spicy Spray in the game itself anyway)
Nevertheless great video, I really enjoyed the deep research you did to get your facts correct for this :)
.. I think this is truly the first video where the creator references another of his videos, and directs the audience to a specific labeled chapter. this hasn't happened, for every single video I've watched since TH-cam added the chapters feature. anyways cool vid :)
Can’t wait for the pikmin 5 tier list in 2033
21:05 Fun fact Oatchi can one shot the moldy slouch (idk how to spell it) with his maxed out dash.
tell me why i go back to one of your old vids and you immediately uploaded a new one 😭
There are actually two other conditions in which Rock Pikmin can be crushed: if they are frozen & if it's an elemental type crush attack like those from Scorchcakes and the like.
Whites are honestly pretty good in pikmin 4 because of the fact that they have an onion. Take fifty whites to a SOVEREIGN BULBLAX and it’s dead then you can take that back to the onion and get almost all back 💀
Yknow, I think the lifesaving feature was removed because unlike in pikmin 1 (I haven't played 2 yet) water is much deeper, as opposed to pikmin 1's more shallow water that gives blues the range to lifesave
You're doing God's work here, playing the game 3 times over just for footage. Can't wait for your thoughts on the game proper.
Hear me out: Blue pikmin are more useful in a way. That way is them not being required which invalidates your small key argument, because Oatchi can do everything that the blue pikmin can do, making blue pikmin more useful and efficient underwater
I also love youre vids great work