Pre rs3 dungeoneering was actually pretty fun, get a few people together in a Skype call and try and get perfect runs in. I haven’t played in years but it’s a shame that some decent content is basically dead and abandoned now
@@BloodCovenRS I actually spent days grinding for the maul and instantly took it to pvp and forgot to protect item and lost it within 5 minute of owning it, good times
@@bamf6603 they’d have to rework the rewards, we basically have all of the chaotics already in the form of fang, ghrazi, and elder maul. Not sure what they’d be able to add reward wise that would be good for mid/end game but I wouldn’t be against it as a mini game
Dungeoneering was one of my favorite skills! I remember it being very fast xp compared to other skills even solo, but I could be remembering that wrong. I'd have no problem with going straight to the highest lvl floors you could get to; especially for solo. Although incentivizing people with xp to go through lower floors with lower lvls might be a good idea and perhaps what they were going for in the first place. Most people will have lower lvls so that could help with finding a team. Loved the vid! Especially many of the written out points, but I wish they were spoken as I had to pause and rewind multiple times while watching to read them.
Thank you for the feedback! It's awesome to see I'm not the only person out there enjoying this skill for what it is. I'll definitely try make the text a bit longer so it's easier to read in future.
In 2012 before RS3 and level 99+, the solo xp was still like 125k which was lower than the gathering skills, about on par with agility rates, and higher than slayer and other support skills. It was increased some time during the last decade.
the priff grind in my ironman was 75% a dungeoneering grind while I'll acknowledge that Agility is in more vital need of a rework (or a removal - I hate agility), Dungeoneering never should have been a skill in the first place.
So many prime contenders for "urgent rework" skills. Agility would be big for the Ironmen, Silverhawks are the only thing that make it tolerable right now
@@BloodCovenRS absolutely insane that silverhawks are still the meta, and ironmen still can't access them - this has been the case since I maxed my main account back in like 2017.
I wish dungeoneering like randomized dungeons were added to the rest of Runescape. It could bring life to many dead places in game as well as expand the usefulness of the skill. The gear you have access to in the skill is to powerful for the rest of the world, but different places in game could have themed gear and the current gear could become just one of many gear sets the skill gives you access to. Although expanding the current skill's gear to the whole wilderness would make it really cool again. Imagine the pvp!
I like this idea of random dungeons across RS but would like to add First off, pvp wouldn’t happen Nobody has that shit turned on with Wildy being safe zone now😂 But I like the idea of random caves/existing dungeons across RS being a training method, maybe give slayer masters a prompt for “dungeon clearing” where instead of assigning a single monster, he assigns a number of each creature inside a dungeon, giving you small slayer exp drops throughout the dungeon and capped off with a big dung exp drop after the dungeon is cleared
That would be cool. Like Sinkholes but you can actually get loot. The MAIN problem with dungeoneering is that people dont feel like theyre compensated. People in RS3 these days only want MONEY MAKERS so fungeoneering is out of the question. Proof for that is the Vorkath fight, people like it but its not rewarding enough so they dont engage.
Remember playing pretty close to release, maybe 2011 or 2012, and it was actually pretty fun either solo or with friends. It quickly became frustrating however, because it required to level up basically every skill in the game if you wanted to go solo, and even with others, someone might just not have the skill at high enough level to go trough the obstacle and miss out on stuff, crafting and smiting requirement was especially harsh, since you would kinda be stuck with worse gear if you could not make your own. And of course the fact that it had basically zero impact in the game as a whole outside the dungeon area, with the exception of a couple of useful items. Seeing how it is now, it seems that they tried to make it more useful and more fun, but i guess it was not enough. It just does not fit in the RS world as a whole, but feels more like a spin-off game inside a game.
Those are some great points! The skill is a lot more tolerable after maxing and with portents. I couldn;t imagine doing 120 DG again without max skills, esp the combat aspect.
Not sure I would call best in slot weapons for every style and best in slot prayers for magic/range “a couple of useful items.” But I assume your point is that the only impact DG had on the game map was Daemonheim and the less than impressive resource dungeons.
Pre-EoC Dungeoneering was very fun back in 2010-2012 when Daemonheim was full of players. It was what motivated me to get all my combat skills to 99 just to obtain the tier-11 equipment. I'm still rocking my Primal, Celestial, and Sagittarian cosmetic overrides to this day.
I prefer solo dungeoneering anyways. I get to go at my own pace, collect resources, really engage with the systems. The last time I joined a group for dungeoneering, everyone bolted from the starting room right away, blazed through rooms, ignoring monsters and resources alike. The boss was killed in 8 minutes and everyone was waiting for me to catch up so they could move on. Similar situation with Elite Dungeons but somehow worse. But the main reason I don't usually do my daily Dungeoneering challenges in Daemonheim is because it's so separated from the rest of the game. Empty your inventory, bank all your gear, dismiss your pet...all for something that'll take ~20 minutes if your taking your time and give fewer DG tokens than an entire Elite Dungeon in _fucking story mode_
Now granted, I trained DG right before and after Skilling pets were released, so my opinion of the skill is a bit different from people who are just getting started today, for example. But I absolutely LOVED Dungeoneering!!! We could find occult and warped reset teams pretty easily and if we wanted to create a party, people were always available to join on W77. I gave myself an extra challenge and used melee while everyone else used range and magic, and trying to keep up with them was so fun, and it super rewarding when I did. And oh man, if you got into a team of people who were super good? Everything worked like clockwork. Everyone did their part, we did it fast, and we got 10m xp/day. The comradery that existed back then was insane, and I was there for it! I made friends there and we went bossing outside of DG, and those were my first ever rago kills. I wouldn't know where to start training DG today, since W77 is empty. Sinkholes, but also QP RS has some good Dungeoneering guides, and even some solo ones too if I remember correctly. Training DG today is definitely a different approach than how it used to be.
Used to sell floors back in 2017-18, and Daemonheim was certainly not at its peak but you could typically get a 5-man party on w77 if you wanted to. Haven't played in a few years; sad to see that even w77 doesn't seem to have anyone these days :(
It really hurts to see such an awesome idea for a skill fall so far. Hopefully the future holds some hope for this skill and brings a good reason for players with 120+ to return.
Great video. I agree with many of the takes, especially that the skill is basically a minigame. My opinion is that minigames in RS should incorporate more than one skill and have higher rewards based on progression in that game, just like Dungeoneering. Keeping skills simple just makes sense. Along a similar vein, RS could probably benefit from disincentivizing afk grinding and incentivizing active participation with other players
Thank you, and I'm glad I could hit a few good points! Minigames really just need a lot of work in general imo, very similar boat to DG where their age is their downfall
The problem with this skill is simple, it's just RuneScape in RuneScape You take attack/ strength/defence/hp/magic/ranged they're the cool/core skills (lets face it, we all love combat in all games). Then you get prayers to boost your stats or give different effects. You then have smithing to create new swords and armour but you need ore and so you need mining, crafting for ranged/magic combat, to cast spells you need runes, so you need runecrafting and you need bows and arrows, so you need fletching and wood cutting. You receive damage while in combat, so you need to get that health back by eating, so fishing makes sense and unless you REALLY love sushi, you need to cook food and to cook, you need fire and to get fire you need to chop wood So all these systems feed back into one another but then you get to dungeoneering and it's "you know all those skills you've been doing for hundreds of hours? Well here is a new place to do them BUUUUUT if you do them in this new place you get dungeoneering experience AS WELL! "Ok and what does that unlock?" You get to carry on doing those EXACT same skills but with a different cosmetic skin every 10 floors ... for 120 floors. Is there any other benefit? Yeah, you get tokens you can spend to unlock this amazing quality of life stuff you can only get through this skill. "thanks a bunch ..." If dungeoneering was taken out completely, the game wouldn't change .. it's a nothing skill. The items it brought along are great, I love my gold accumulator but the actual skill isn't a skill
Man I miss the vibe of Dungeoneering so much and I loved the cape and the chaotic weapons and just the way the place felt. If I win the lottery I'm buying Jagex and putting it in OSRS as a minigame haha.
I remember being a range pure for pvp thinking if I train for over a year for one dungeoneering weapon and lose it today im gunna crap a brick. lol. but after raids you can earn them in like 2 hours at 120. but nobody pvps. @@BloodCovenRS
also, this skill wasn't bad all the time I enjoyed a few teams. But, the ffa grouping system was about as successful as croesus is these days.edit there were a few teams that could just run it and make tons of xp. but that was the maxed players before it came out as a skill itself. before then you could only effigy.
So, funny thing: - The Daemonheim resource dungeon is about the only way to chop maples as f2p, so there's about the main benefit to f2ps. - Taverly dungeon RD is, funnily enough, a good way to grind blue dragons for the fact it's quite empty. I go there for my dragon slayer tasks. - Al Kharid mine RD became my go-to for Necrite and Drakolith mining. Ya literally chose about many of the main useful ones i find (or found, as former f2p) as example of worse.
Also funny from an ironman perspective. Literally picked the 2 most useful resource dungeons for ironmen. The Taverly resource dungeon has a bunch of blue dragon scale spawns, and is a great way to get them before pickpocketing elves. And the Al Kharid resource dungeon, while being a great place to mine necrite/drakolith, also has a large number of impling spawns and precious gem rocks (which are more relevant to ironmen)
For sure, you're definitely right about these, but the main point I was attempting to make was that as a general, resource dungeoons simply aren't good enough to go out of your way to train DG specifically for (bar the maple trees on f2p irons) esp considering that DG is so slow to train when starting out. Most of these have equally easy/effective alternatives to access with out the DG requirement. I definitely could have factored in more of the Ironman's side of things here!
@@BloodCovenRS Fair enough. They are indeed mostly "oh neat, this unlock is useful" rather than something one would actively train towards most of the time.
This video was awesome. I got 200m DG in 2012, then quit not too long after and never really did DG since. This shows me that, though the core of the skill is solid, everything else supporting that core is so fundamentally outdated that it turns people away before the core gameplay can really show itself. I will always love DG, and there’s nothing in runescape even close to the feeling you get playing at a high level with a 5 man team. But yes, the skill is basically dead. Personally I want group DG to remain the superior option: there is more difficulty with a team because making things go smoothly in a team is much harder than on your own. There are so many factors out of your control and so many more things you need to account for. And as years of DG have taught me, working as a team is a tall order in runescape. Otherwise, a complete overhaul of the rewards, a change in the prestige system, and better balancing for EoC combat would be amazing (the bosses die in seconds with EoC, whereas they were actually dangerous pre-EoC). I mean, the only reason people did DG in 2010 was chaotics. So without those BiS rewards, DG lacks the draw it was designed to offer. If they made some structural changes, I might even actually return to the skill more than 10 years later. But they won’t. Their fix is just to offer alternative ways of training the skill so that no one bothers to actually run dungeons anymore.
Sadly we will never see it in osrs to many gatekeepers it seems. DG was my favorite skill pre eoc and would love to see it hit osrs (which it wont) everytime I mention it I get told we have Gauntlet which to me is unsweetened watered down tea to me compared to DG.
great funny video brought bak some good memories of 2010 dungeoneering :D But please a constructive criticism - for the "funny sound effects" can you please balance them in the center of left/right channels in the editing room.
I love dungeoneering, as it's my favorite skill, but it needs a rework for allowing solo players to not feel like they are missing out. As someone who plays both rs3 and osrs for almost 20 years now, it's always sad to see fun content die off.
Absolutely agree here. Although there's a lot of content I'd like to revive or preserve in this game, dev resources aren't inifinite and a lot of stuff is gonna fade into obscurity. I hope this isn't the case for DG.
@@BloodCovenRS I feel there could be some changes made, that maybe you can train it outside in the rest of the map, and then do the minigame type dungeon crawl
i think the quickest fix would be making the currency valueable (maybe make it a alternative or necesity to repair armour for all levels of armour above t90 (and moving forward))
the tokens are valuable. There are plenty of good stuff to get and then you can buy zammy lucky charms and shard farm. its still ridiculous money and easy.
interesting how you didnt talk about the actual good rewards like the Gold accumulator and different drop enhancers and ports enhancers that can speed up that grind. or that they're starting to incorporate more of the dungeoneering rewards into upgrades 9:08 Al Kharid resource mine is actually used by a lot of people. I went in there earlier and saw 10 people afking it with porters. In fsw it was packed. Its just most people are past that point in the game
I love dungeon crawlers, but unfortunately the dg that was released back in 2010 (I was there for the strange power event, wow the memories) was not taken care of very well in the past 13 years, to the point it has fallen into a state of disrepair. Also regardless of any eoc opinions, it was made and balanced for pre-eoc and for a different community (a lot changes in a decade). I'd say let's get a whole new rework like m&s and make it the dungeon crawler it was always meant to be. Maybe we'll get that - maybe we won't. It is, however, in my opinion, what the skill deserves. Great video btw, I hope the devs watch this and gleam from it in a constructive way.
DG has been my favourite skill to level, I think most people don't understand how to effectively work as a team doing 5man Large floors, ie calling keys, dropping GS, keying and doing guardian doors
I remember grinding out the dung lv being hype and buying chaotic rapier to grind frost dragons, only to be overshadowed by power creep like Pack Yaks and even more weapons overshadowing. It felt like a cool abode only to see it flooded by power creep from how underwhelming dungeoneering rewards were Won't lie it was a blast grinding talking skill ceiling and having a GOOD team rushing
I started playing Runescape a few years ago. While yes, it would have been nice to train the skill with a group, I figured 500k xp/hr (solo) was going to be better than 0 xp/hr (groups don't exist, let's be real). I installed Alt1 and used the dgkey plugin to keep track of where door/keys are. Averaged 1 floor/22 minutes. Not too bad all things considered.
I think the spaghetti code issue will be the main stumbling block for progress. A prime example is that necromancy still hasnt been added to it. In all honesty if it wasn't a "skill" with highscores, etc it would've been removed already. Some minigames got removed for that exact reason, the spaghetti code.
@@BloodCovenRS I mean, they fixed Construction in Oldschool, so they could absolutely fix it in Newschool. Think they're just prioritizing other things right now. Which is deeply unfortunate, given that Construction is essentially useless in Newschool right now.
@@LoremasterYnTaris my understanding on that was that the construction code was a bit less spaghetti at the point in time OSRS was forked from, thus it was easier to modify it.
@@LoremasterYnTaris The way they fixed it in OSRS wouldnt work in RS3, we dont have those problems. Wars Retreat is exactly what people use POH for: Refilling spec bar (adrenaline), filling prayer, Resetting stats, Hitpoints boost, teleports to bosses, max/minimum hits on dummies. We also have lodestones so we dont need that Portal Nexus and we can make compacted jewelry and then store those inside a Portable Portal Nexus. At 99 Magic we can Swap Spellbooks at any bank. IDK how they could improve on POH but doing something like OSRS has already been done in other places and maybe even better.
definitely a great video, as someone who actually did solo floors to 120 you were 100% spot on. the only thing i'd say is that the resources dungeons are actually amazing. not for actually going in there: but for clues the dung cape gives you so many teleport options to more out of the way clue locations and it saves so much time. but yeah their intended purpose is entirely lost
Damn this one hits close to home. I love group dg but its super hard to find a team, and a good one specially. Hope this mining and smithing updates and the arch dig site bring some much needed life to the skill.
This video is old. And what I'm about to say might have been said already. But I've always hoped that Jaged would release... like.. "other" dungeoneering places? One of my favorite things about runescape is that you can find content of all levels lumped together all across the overworld. Like running from Catherby to Ardy you come across elder trees. Several quest locations. An archeological digsite that's like mid-ish level. And the player owned farm. Why aren't there other dungeons all around the world? I think dungeoneering would have felt a lot better if every milestone level, like every 15 or 20 levels. You unlock a new place in the world to dungeon dive in. Treat them as mini-raids to tackle. To that same end. How cool would it be if resource dungeons were small maybe like 4/4 grid randomised room dungeons that also gave you a bit of dungeoneering exp and gave you some of the dated resources. Allowing you to dungeon delve for resources instead of combat. Such a missed opportunity. The concept of a "dungeon delving skill" in a game as unique as runescape was absolutely perfect. But it flat-out misses the mark. I love what we got but I wish they had dared to experiment more.
I think you’re being a little too pessimistic. I wasn’t a high level player and really did save up those tokens for a tier 80 ranged weapon and some useful necklace / ring.
Pessimistic and realistic can be a very thin line sometimes. Chaotics can be a great buy for some players but unfortunately in reality for many, it is much more reasonable (and easy) to save 50m for an Asc Cbow with better stats in today's economy.
There's already an item called "Dungeoneering party simulator", which partially fixes the XP disparity between solo and team, but simply buffing solo XP rates would be a terrible mistake. What Jagex needs to do is amend the grouping system and modernize the movement, graphics, bosses, and puzzles within. It's really a skill that needs to be taken back to its MMO roots rather than cast into solo play like everything else. Dungeoneering is not the problem. It's a symptom of the modern MMO and RuneScape experience.
What you said about simulators is misleading. All it does is make a 1:1 floor for example into a 2:2 floor which used to be more xp but ever since 2022 with the iron group DG update, simulators essentially do nothing as going from 2:2 to 3:3 doesn't gain more xp. In fact it's possible that it decreases XP since different party sizes give different base XP amounts. I'm not entirely sure if the simulator changes the base XP for a 2:2 floor to that of a 3:3 floor but if it did, that would be a significant xp loss.
God I remember when it was first released (before rs3 was rs3, it was its testing phase) spending two weeks with my best mate just smashing the skill and doing as many dungeons as possible. It was really fun back when it first came out but they focused too much on making the skill too ‘unique’ and as you said, it really doesn’t interact with the rest of the game because of it. It was always doomed to fall off because of that.
I did a dungeon or two with another guy hanging around daemonheim in F2P the day it came out and essentially ignored it for several years. Eventually trained it to 99 reaching that in 2017. Did the whole thing solo.
My biggest gripe is definitely that it should've been a minigame and not a skill. They should've let us progress through floors organically, maybe we unlock lower floors by unlocking them in the token store? Also prestige system SUUCKS. Never make someone repeat what they did at level 1 at level 95, please for the love of Postie Pete. The little stagger every time you go through a door is noticeable to say the least. I don't love running skills necessarily, but if there are running skills, don't make me randomly have to stop and solve a five minute puzzle. Let me run goddamit. IMO puzzles have a place, but put them out of the "main path", and into optional rooms for interesting upgrades to gear, or resources that you can use in the rest of the dungeon. Backtracking sucks. It's okay if I run five rooms in a row and have to teleport back to the start to do five rooms in the other direction, but don't make me go all the way south west, then back to the start to get a key to the east, then back south west to open a door there I couldn't before, then north, then back south west to open another door, then east to open a door there. Let each branching path end in a key or the boss. There's no reason to make this any more difficult. The layout of dungeons CAN make sense even if they are randomly generated. I know they can't remove it as a skill at this point, but what they can do is make the levelling experience more streamlined, like Archaeology. Definitely still have the highest exp rates being rushing floors as fast as possible, but also make it so that spending time doing relaxing activities in each room rewards you too.
Good video. I agree with some of your points. I like that you mentioned that dungeoneering promotes active gameplay. Dare I say it is the game's most dynamic and engaging skill. I disagree that the balancing of the skill is the reason why people dislike it. For sure, it has to do with the gameplay issues, although I feel that only makes up a fraction of the reason. I would say the primary reason people do not like dungeoneering is because, again, you actually have to look at your monitor. We have become so conditioned from EVERY other skill in the game not to pay attention that when we are forced to, we dislike it. You could argue this is wrong because of bossing and clue scrolls requiring attention, but we never feel like we have to do those activities the same way we feel we must train a skill for max and comp. Second, the dungeoneering tokens are vital resources. They can buy reward enhancers, ring of vigour (as you noted), scrolls, pets, best-in-slot necklaces, etc. Yeah, some items are outdated and should be fixed, I agree. The resource dungeons are largely useless; however, teleporting to them with the skill cape is super useful.
We have to remember that dg came out along the same timeline as WoW expansions and Skyrim style, procedurally generated dungeons. This would've really been an awesome update if it applied more organically to existing dungeons in the game. Instead of being locked to Daemonheim, this skill could've been tweaked to the overall themes of exploring and spelunking. It would have incentivized going to under explored caves, towers, and forests and would've made the game feel larger instead of cramming it into a greyscale island. The gameplay loop was fantastic. I had the most fun in late RS2, early RS3 doing the dungeons, getting to 120, and eventually selling leech floors until 200m. It had great gameplay, but very awful game design. Such a shame that it was just all locked to some minigame lobby on some random island they made.
This is very true, I haven;t played enough WoW to comment on that front but I do find it interesting that many Skyrim players disliked the dungeon style due to them being repetetive and bring, somewhat similar to the criticisms of DG. I feel like this style of map design was somewhat a developer fad that was doomed to fail once playerbases got the chance to try them. Skyrim was lucky enough that you didn't have to clear hundreds of their repetetive dungeons to level up one of the skills ig.
The only reason I even touched Daemonheim, was to get my Max Cape and Comp Cape. I'm dreading the day I'd have to go back for the Hard Mode "Hard as Daemons" achievement and beat all the levels...again...in hard mode. There is a reason I lamped DG until almost lvl 99 and then again to lvl 112 before even entering Daemonheim. Also, used all my tokens to get all the pet unlocks. It really is the worst skill next to fletching and even more outdated than Player Owned Houses. XD
Even worse than the long time gated puzzles is not being able to see the colors on those puzzles even with a different skybox like midday. Churning out lock melters to make it bearable lol I do enjoy running 5 man larges and still need to get 116-120 but outside of the first Friday and Saturday of a dxp weekend, good luck finding anyone
Also, finding teams to take low level groups through their larges, well that seems like a really big ask nowadays. Most of my friends who have done dg on their new accounts had to solo to 80 or 90 just to find a team to take them through a floor or 2
I haven't touched dungeoneering in over 10 years but I remember it quite fondly, I dont play RS3 anymore but sometimes I wish it was in Old School when I'm feeling nostalgic for those preEoC days. My dungeoneering level is only 29 so I probably didn't get very far but it was mainly about playing it with friends for me, tbh I didn't play very efficiently back then, I don't think I even had a Combat Level over 50. It does feel weird that it's a skill instead of just a minigame but unless you're going for a max cape it doesn't really matter, just don't play it if you don't like it
Dungeoneering was made for a different game. When it released, the game was more in line with OSRS's pace. I remember Deamonheim being legit slow and challenging on release, because every piece of food mattered, you needed to be smart with your money, organize items, food and potions with your team etc. Especially the occult floors, where I was the only one of my friend group to reach them, because Dung was the only thing I did as a kid since it released. EoC ruined that for me and it's sad to see that it hasnt gotten any better. No hate towards RS3 btw, it's a good game in its own way, it just has so much content that a lot of it can't keep up with its own updates.
Crazy part is that they've buffed solo exp rates multiple times. At launch it was brutally punishing doing solo runs. Now it's just insulting, instead of a kick in the nuts. There are puzzles and bosses they could flat remove from the skill that would make it better with minimal effort. The prestige system is terrible, and should be removed or reworked as well, but that would be a bigger lift. They should also flat remove any skill checks above 99. Not a single person has ever thought it was a fun mechanic to find something requiring a skill check of 100+, forcing you to (if you're lucky) use a portent of passage or (if you're unlucky) screw around making a potion to do it. A potion you have to go to the wiki to figure out, since the in-game skill guide doesn't even tell you which potions increase which skills. Heinous, incredibly player-unfriendly game design. I was so excited to max my skills before going for 120 dungeoneering, and when I ran across my first 102 skill check puzzle I legitimately quit the game for a month.
Hard agree with skill doors, portents were a huge QOL drop but those doors still suck, especially since its impossible to tell if they are on the main path or not.
9:50 My favorite thing about Dungeoneering is the skill ceiling. Its one of the only things in the game you can actually get good at. The only others being PvM and Clues.
Dungeoneering had been absolutely the highlight for me and most of the new players in my iron guild just learn to speedrun and all is fun we all collectively got 85+ in a few days on new accs
It's awesome to see new players getting into this skill. Despite the hate, this skill really encapsulates how a skill should be built. Fuck all that afk stuff right off!
I think the ultimate problem with dungeoneering is it is so skill intensive. From Woodcutting to Slayer. Both can be leveled by casually clicking every 5 minutes. Dung requires attentiveness and active participation. In a game where a lvl 99 or 120 can be 100 of hours... yeah hell nah. I have a soft spot for Dung but I also understand why nobody participates. I havent played for 3-4 years tho
Doing dungeoneering was one of the best experiences i had in this game both with randoms or friends. With Friends i have done HM floor which was really fun. i never once really hated my life doing it. I 100% agree that dungeoneering has alot of issues but people hate on it way too much. On the other hand Slayer is the number 1 skill to most people, which is baffling to me. Sure some rewards from slayer monster can be nice for example totem piece from anachronia slayer, cannon upgrades from Dragonkin tasks, but What part of slayer is fun? its not the best money maker but its not the worst for sure, its not fully Afk but its not active enough to manually do abilities. Its just a pain in the ass imo. If i want to actively play i would do bosses which are way more fun and make more money, and wenever i want to Afk its definitely not the skill i would choose to do. Idk i just find it weird most if not all people say its the best skill.
I always wished they would bring dungeoneeering to OSRS as a minigame and not a skill. Would be fun. Makes no sense as a skill. ...kinda like sailing. Sounds amazing but why is it a skill and not just something I can do?
personally dungeoneering is my favorite part of runescape 3. but hey when it released runescape lost about 30% of their player base. then they lost another 40% when EOC came out. because people said they "prefered the old combat" meanwhile there was ALWAYS the option to put back your game in legacy mode.
I understand this video is made from the general player's perspective, but the majority of the playerbase do not realize that solo 1:1 DG exp is not far off from your average 5:5 group DG exp rates once you have mastered this skill. He said it best, there's a massive skill ceiling for the Dungeoneering skill. From the perspective of a player who knows how to Dungeoneer pretty well, It's hard to rationalize "solo xp scales BADLY". 8-12 minutes is a realistic 5:5 large floor time comprised of 5 players who just have the basics down. If we use 10 minutes as the average, I would be getting roughly 20% more Exp/Hr than the average group rates. My average 1:1 large floor times are usually 10 minutes or less and includes the additional 20% exp that 1:1 rewards over 5:5. And no I'm not knocking the guy for doing 20+ min solos, as that's pretty standard with 95% of players still figuring out how the skill works. I'm just saying there's 2 different perspectives to look at it from, you either choose to improve or you don't.
This is a really great comment and I understand what you mean for the most part. My only issue is that this even further demonstrates that the exp per hour for solo vs group is broken asf. Players who are skilled enough to do 10 min solos should not be getting the same exp rates as a bunch of beginner players in a group who only know the basics. Skill expression needs to be rewarded and the current system does not do that. There's even more of an issue shown when you compare the exp rates of 5 very skilled players in a group vs 1 equally skilled solo player. In this situation, the group would always have higher exp per hour despite a similiar skill level and effort exerted.
I loved dungeoneering when it released. Once the serious players who spend a lot of time online have finished their goals and you're left with the casuals, then I can see why people would have trouble
Here’s an idea… 120 floors For 120 dungeoneering levels. Each floor you progress gives you one level and progressively gets more difficult. After 120, prestige just once from floors 40-120 for 200m. PROBLEM. SOLVED.
personally I hate it because it feels like so many random needed things are locked behind it and outside of going into do dungeons I feel like it doesn tinteract with anything else. like the fact that everything about it is self contained is just boring.
I don't hate it, but I don't like it. After a few floors, I get sick of training the skill. I'm compt now, so I don't need to worry about it, but playing on my alt, I'm reminded why I don't train it much and just use lamps.
Stuff like the nature/law staves were useless on release, with the air runes costing more than a law rune for example. I don't know why they nerfed these things so hard into oblivion before they even had a chance to shine, could have been really iconic unlocks.
I used to hate dung when it first came out then i was forced to get lv 70 in like 2015 for priff and i really enjoyed it then idk what is going on now honestly wish they would add it to osrs or somthing dung related like it
I hated the skill myself back in the RS2 days, but now I'm almost tempted to go back to RS3 again as I kind of quit after it came out. Just need to get bored of OSRS bronzeman first and decide if I want a fresh start of continue on my old character. I just wish RS3 had plugin support as I really enjoy how bronzeman makes you engage in more content and isn't just turning Runescape into a GE simulator while also allows for GE once you've unlocked the appropriate content once.
I really loved dungeoneering pre EoC. Teaming with high level maxed players was so cool. Too bad RS3 went downhill and "services" took over. Fuck them.
a no death Blink is an achievement. That's how absurd he is. The hole is mechanically bankrupt. Having leveled multiple accounts to 99+ I see the appeal. The worst thing about it in my opinion is that it gets samey fast. I agree that just fixing the solo xp would go a long way towards making it livable. As an ironman I have found that pile of dragon scales useful. Modernizing the rewards some would help a lot too. though that chaotic staff is one of the few reliable to obtain magic weapons. Used one on my Ironman for literal years before finding a better weapon.
I hated this skill from day one that it released... absolutely hated it... i finally got it to 99 during one of the summer events on RS3 ... i ended up working overnight shifts at my work for 2 months during it lol, i legit had my phone open 8 hours every night just afk tapping on the big hole you jump into and get dung xp... i was so happy to finally get it to 99 LMAO
back when i played dg was my favorite skill and the only 200m i ever got. sad to see it is dead content now. it was also pretty good money selling floors to people who didnt like the skill. if i remember correctly warps went for 10m each
1:10 "this minigame- i mean, skill" no you aren't wrong. It was always a minigame. It never got implemented anywhere but the one area (at least, as far as i remember, but now i hear they tried doing that... too little, too late) and in the one area you did the same shit over and over to get tokens to exchange for rewards. Minigame confirmed. Also broke the economy of existing items in the game rather than offering competetive easy to obtain alternatives that weren't best in slot. By overriding literally everything for best in slot, it became mandatory minigame meta and i hated it. Eoc sealed the deal, i quit then.
can ironman accounts even do this with other players yet? when I quit it was because I had to find a group of iron man players to kill Beastmaster Durzag for the corrupted abilities. My active very fun social clan was running that boss but I couldn't join with them because I had to have an iron man only team I've heard that that is no longer the case though. maybe when they rework combat properly finally I can give it another shot
ya but, jagex isn;t interested in that. you know what couldve saved dung.. necro... put some of the 'well of soul' upgrades in dung and save it... but noo... it's bad for stock price...
Same reason I hate necromancy: you`re a maxed player with good gear and here you are starting from scratch with no gear, doing no damage. That`s enough for me, but in dung you can`t even keep your gear, it`s like playing a different game and I hate that. If I want to play a different game I`ll play a different game.
hey now hey now hey now wood island resource dungeon at daemonheim is the bees knees for f2p since they dont otherwise have access to maple trees to cut _he says while not remembering the last time the f2p skiller was logged on that used that area_
people want as little as possible to do with this skill that even sinkholes are dead, 2013-2015 sinkholes were so packed that you couldnt get in because there were too many people in
I just didn't like having to rely on others for it. Pretty much every other skill you don't need to interact with others to get the best ex pee rates, and it felt tedious after a while. Getting to 120 felt like a slog bc of working with others and the really good people would always get really impatient with anyone who wasn't 100% perfect which also sucked. By 120 I was decent, but it never made me want to get super good at it because of the other people there, either reaaallly bad or massive assholes
@LazySillyDog you can solo these days (wasn't an option when I trained). I tried it the other day and did a large solo a little over 15 mins. I get the impatient point, though. I am not impatient, as long as I see someone trying. However, not many people *really* try.
Actually, I just bought the nature staff on ironman, because I want infinity outfit and it'll save runes :p but don't let me get you started on how trash the mage training arena is. :P
Pre rs3 dungeoneering was actually pretty fun, get a few people together in a Skype call and try and get perfect runs in. I haven’t played in years but it’s a shame that some decent content is basically dead and abandoned now
Ikr, nothing but good memories of it pre-eoc! I would have suffered through anything for a Chaotic Rapier back then tho.
@@BloodCovenRS I actually spent days grinding for the maul and instantly took it to pvp and forgot to protect item and lost it within 5 minute of owning it, good times
@@HeckyeaVids i took the 2h sword and lost it...
they should bring dungeoneering into osrs atleast as a minigame, but i dont mind if its a skill
@@bamf6603 they’d have to rework the rewards, we basically have all of the chaotics already in the form of fang, ghrazi, and elder maul. Not sure what they’d be able to add reward wise that would be good for mid/end game but I wouldn’t be against it as a mini game
It breaks my heart to see castle wars deserted like that 😢
RiP Stealing creations
During spotlights it's pretty active especially during fri-sun
Dungeoneering was one of my favorite skills! I remember it being very fast xp compared to other skills even solo, but I could be remembering that wrong. I'd have no problem with going straight to the highest lvl floors you could get to; especially for solo. Although incentivizing people with xp to go through lower floors with lower lvls might be a good idea and perhaps what they were going for in the first place. Most people will have lower lvls so that could help with finding a team.
Loved the vid! Especially many of the written out points, but I wish they were spoken as I had to pause and rewind multiple times while watching to read them.
Thank you for the feedback! It's awesome to see I'm not the only person out there enjoying this skill for what it is. I'll definitely try make the text a bit longer so it's easier to read in future.
In 2012 before RS3 and level 99+, the solo xp was still like 125k which was lower than the gathering skills, about on par with agility rates, and higher than slayer and other support skills. It was increased some time during the last decade.
the priff grind in my ironman was 75% a dungeoneering grind
while I'll acknowledge that Agility is in more vital need of a rework (or a removal - I hate agility), Dungeoneering never should have been a skill in the first place.
So many prime contenders for "urgent rework" skills. Agility would be big for the Ironmen, Silverhawks are the only thing that make it tolerable right now
@@BloodCovenRS absolutely insane that silverhawks are still the meta, and ironmen still can't access them - this has been the case since I maxed my main account back in like 2017.
@@Totherphoenixquest to 53, bike to 74, more quest to 75 then lamp/daily to 99 lol free af skill stop crying
You’re a bad Ironman then tbh. As a maxed Ironman with a 20b wealth eval lmao
@@TheSCPStudio do u feel like a big man? do you want a kiss on the lips??
I wish dungeoneering like randomized dungeons were added to the rest of Runescape. It could bring life to many dead places in game as well as expand the usefulness of the skill.
The gear you have access to in the skill is to powerful for the rest of the world, but different places in game could have themed gear and the current gear could become just one of many gear sets the skill gives you access to. Although expanding the current skill's gear to the whole wilderness would make it really cool again. Imagine the pvp!
This is a cool idea for sure. A more combat oriented sinkholes activity would go pretty hard tbh, esp with some properly balanced PvP
I like this idea of random dungeons across RS but would like to add
First off, pvp wouldn’t happen
Nobody has that shit turned on with Wildy being safe zone now😂
But I like the idea of random caves/existing dungeons across RS being a training method, maybe give slayer masters a prompt for “dungeon clearing” where instead of assigning a single monster, he assigns a number of each creature inside a dungeon, giving you small slayer exp drops throughout the dungeon and capped off with a big dung exp drop after the dungeon is cleared
That would be cool.
Like Sinkholes but you can actually get loot.
The MAIN problem with dungeoneering is that people dont feel like theyre compensated.
People in RS3 these days only want MONEY MAKERS so fungeoneering is out of the question.
Proof for that is the Vorkath fight, people like it but its not rewarding enough so they dont engage.
Remember playing pretty close to release, maybe 2011 or 2012, and it was actually pretty fun either solo or with friends. It quickly became frustrating however, because it required to level up basically every skill in the game if you wanted to go solo, and even with others, someone might just not have the skill at high enough level to go trough the obstacle and miss out on stuff, crafting and smiting requirement was especially harsh, since you would kinda be stuck with worse gear if you could not make your own.
And of course the fact that it had basically zero impact in the game as a whole outside the dungeon area, with the exception of a couple of useful items.
Seeing how it is now, it seems that they tried to make it more useful and more fun, but i guess it was not enough. It just does not fit in the RS world as a whole, but feels more like a spin-off game inside a game.
Those are some great points! The skill is a lot more tolerable after maxing and with portents. I couldn;t imagine doing 120 DG again without max skills, esp the combat aspect.
Not sure I would call best in slot weapons for every style and best in slot prayers for magic/range “a couple of useful items.” But I assume your point is that the only impact DG had on the game map was Daemonheim and the less than impressive resource dungeons.
Pre-EoC Dungeoneering was very fun back in 2010-2012 when Daemonheim was full of players. It was what motivated me to get all my combat skills to 99 just to obtain the tier-11 equipment. I'm still rocking my Primal, Celestial, and Sagittarian cosmetic overrides to this day.
I prefer solo dungeoneering anyways. I get to go at my own pace, collect resources, really engage with the systems. The last time I joined a group for dungeoneering, everyone bolted from the starting room right away, blazed through rooms, ignoring monsters and resources alike. The boss was killed in 8 minutes and everyone was waiting for me to catch up so they could move on.
Similar situation with Elite Dungeons but somehow worse.
But the main reason I don't usually do my daily Dungeoneering challenges in Daemonheim is because it's so separated from the rest of the game. Empty your inventory, bank all your gear, dismiss your pet...all for something that'll take ~20 minutes if your taking your time and give fewer DG tokens than an entire Elite Dungeon in _fucking story mode_
Pre RuneScape 3 I loved this skill so much
Now granted, I trained DG right before and after Skilling pets were released, so my opinion of the skill is a bit different from people who are just getting started today, for example.
But I absolutely LOVED Dungeoneering!!! We could find occult and warped reset teams pretty easily and if we wanted to create a party, people were always available to join on W77. I gave myself an extra challenge and used melee while everyone else used range and magic, and trying to keep up with them was so fun, and it super rewarding when I did.
And oh man, if you got into a team of people who were super good? Everything worked like clockwork. Everyone did their part, we did it fast, and we got 10m xp/day.
The comradery that existed back then was insane, and I was there for it! I made friends there and we went bossing outside of DG, and those were my first ever rago kills.
I wouldn't know where to start training DG today, since W77 is empty. Sinkholes, but also QP RS has some good Dungeoneering guides, and even some solo ones too if I remember correctly.
Training DG today is definitely a different approach than how it used to be.
Used to sell floors back in 2017-18, and Daemonheim was certainly not at its peak but you could typically get a 5-man party on w77 if you wanted to. Haven't played in a few years; sad to see that even w77 doesn't seem to have anyone these days :(
It really hurts to see such an awesome idea for a skill fall so far. Hopefully the future holds some hope for this skill and brings a good reason for players with 120+ to return.
Great video. I agree with many of the takes, especially that the skill is basically a minigame. My opinion is that minigames in RS should incorporate more than one skill and have higher rewards based on progression in that game, just like Dungeoneering. Keeping skills simple just makes sense. Along a similar vein, RS could probably benefit from disincentivizing afk grinding and incentivizing active participation with other players
Thank you, and I'm glad I could hit a few good points! Minigames really just need a lot of work in general imo, very similar boat to DG where their age is their downfall
because it isnt afk and takes skill - why they cry if anything is remotely challenging in the game
Hard agree with this. Skill expression is not rewarded enough and afk methods are really getting way too generous.
This is 100% right! People want to AFK everything, and since there isn't any option to AFK they skip it.
You just open doors
Think most people hate it because its a skill and not a mini game. Imagine if Barbarian assault was a skill
Shhhhh don't give them ideas. I don't wanna see this on the new year's road map.
I know we're talking bout RS3 here, but I can see the exact same thing happening with sailing.
The problem with this skill is simple, it's just RuneScape in RuneScape
You take attack/ strength/defence/hp/magic/ranged they're the cool/core skills (lets face it, we all love combat in all games). Then you get prayers to boost your stats or give different effects. You then have smithing to create new swords and armour but you need ore and so you need mining, crafting for ranged/magic combat, to cast spells you need runes, so you need runecrafting and you need bows and arrows, so you need fletching and wood cutting. You receive damage while in combat, so you need to get that health back by eating, so fishing makes sense and unless you REALLY love sushi, you need to cook food and to cook, you need fire and to get fire you need to chop wood
So all these systems feed back into one another but then you get to dungeoneering and it's "you know all those skills you've been doing for hundreds of hours? Well here is a new place to do them BUUUUUT if you do them in this new place you get dungeoneering experience AS WELL! "Ok and what does that unlock?" You get to carry on doing those EXACT same skills but with a different cosmetic skin every 10 floors ... for 120 floors. Is there any other benefit? Yeah, you get tokens you can spend to unlock this amazing quality of life stuff you can only get through this skill. "thanks a bunch ..."
If dungeoneering was taken out completely, the game wouldn't change .. it's a nothing skill. The items it brought along are great, I love my gold accumulator but the actual skill isn't a skill
Man I miss the vibe of Dungeoneering so much and I loved the cape and the chaotic weapons and just the way the place felt. If I win the lottery I'm buying Jagex and putting it in OSRS as a minigame haha.
Let me do you one better. Corrupted gauntlet reskin plugin for Runelite? Save the Jagex money and buy yourself something nice instead lol
99 dungeoneering took me almost a year and i had 99 range and defense. 120 necro took me about 2 months afking.
They really don't build skills like they used to. Necro has some wild exp rates for sure!
I remember being a range pure for pvp thinking if I train for over a year for one dungeoneering weapon and lose it today im gunna crap a brick. lol. but after raids you can earn them in like 2 hours at 120. but nobody pvps. @@BloodCovenRS
also, this skill wasn't bad all the time I enjoyed a few teams. But, the ffa grouping system was about as successful as croesus is these days.edit there were a few teams that could just run it and make tons of xp. but that was the maxed players before it came out as a skill itself. before then you could only effigy.
So, funny thing:
- The Daemonheim resource dungeon is about the only way to chop maples as f2p, so there's about the main benefit to f2ps.
- Taverly dungeon RD is, funnily enough, a good way to grind blue dragons for the fact it's quite empty. I go there for my dragon slayer tasks.
- Al Kharid mine RD became my go-to for Necrite and Drakolith mining.
Ya literally chose about many of the main useful ones i find (or found, as former f2p) as example of worse.
Also funny from an ironman perspective. Literally picked the 2 most useful resource dungeons for ironmen.
The Taverly resource dungeon has a bunch of blue dragon scale spawns, and is a great way to get them before pickpocketing elves.
And the Al Kharid resource dungeon, while being a great place to mine necrite/drakolith, also has a large number of impling spawns and precious gem rocks (which are more relevant to ironmen)
For sure, you're definitely right about these, but the main point I was attempting to make was that as a general, resource dungeoons simply aren't good enough to go out of your way to train DG specifically for (bar the maple trees on f2p irons) esp considering that DG is so slow to train when starting out. Most of these have equally easy/effective alternatives to access with out the DG requirement. I definitely could have factored in more of the Ironman's side of things here!
@@BloodCovenRS Fair enough. They are indeed mostly "oh neat, this unlock is useful" rather than something one would actively train towards most of the time.
This video was awesome. I got 200m DG in 2012, then quit not too long after and never really did DG since. This shows me that, though the core of the skill is solid, everything else supporting that core is so fundamentally outdated that it turns people away before the core gameplay can really show itself. I will always love DG, and there’s nothing in runescape even close to the feeling you get playing at a high level with a 5 man team. But yes, the skill is basically dead. Personally I want group DG to remain the superior option: there is more difficulty with a team because making things go smoothly in a team is much harder than on your own. There are so many factors out of your control and so many more things you need to account for. And as years of DG have taught me, working as a team is a tall order in runescape. Otherwise, a complete overhaul of the rewards, a change in the prestige system, and better balancing for EoC combat would be amazing (the bosses die in seconds with EoC, whereas they were actually dangerous pre-EoC). I mean, the only reason people did DG in 2010 was chaotics. So without those BiS rewards, DG lacks the draw it was designed to offer. If they made some structural changes, I might even actually return to the skill more than 10 years later. But they won’t. Their fix is just to offer alternative ways of training the skill so that no one bothers to actually run dungeons anymore.
I remember doing dungeoneering in rs2 and post eoc/early rs3 and getting to like 115 dungeoneering. I loved the skill and hope it comes to osrs
Sadly we will never see it in osrs to many gatekeepers it seems. DG was my favorite skill pre eoc and would love to see it hit osrs (which it wont) everytime I mention it I get told we have Gauntlet which to me is unsweetened watered down tea to me compared to DG.
great funny video brought bak some good memories of 2010 dungeoneering :D But please a constructive criticism - for the "funny sound effects" can you please balance them in the center of left/right channels in the editing room.
Thank you for the kind words! I've actually fixed the sound issue in all my vids since this one, not sure how this originally slipped though QC ngl
I love dungeoneering, as it's my favorite skill, but it needs a rework for allowing solo players to not feel like they are missing out. As someone who plays both rs3 and osrs for almost 20 years now, it's always sad to see fun content die off.
Absolutely agree here. Although there's a lot of content I'd like to revive or preserve in this game, dev resources aren't inifinite and a lot of stuff is gonna fade into obscurity. I hope this isn't the case for DG.
@@BloodCovenRS I feel there could be some changes made, that maybe you can train it outside in the rest of the map, and then do the minigame type dungeon crawl
why is the "pop in" sounds mixed for left ear only? (00:12 for example)
Easy oversight if he added it into a stereo track and only added effects into the left channel
Great video. I’d be thrilled if they just fixed the solo xp-rates to match the group xp-rates
Thank you! It's really not much to ask for imo and should just be shifting numbers around (im guessing?)
i think the quickest fix would be making the currency valueable (maybe make it a alternative or necesity to repair armour for all levels of armour above t90 (and moving forward))
Then you’re just forced to token farm at ed1
the tokens are valuable. There are plenty of good stuff to get and then you can buy zammy lucky charms and shard farm. its still ridiculous money and easy.
interesting how you didnt talk about the actual good rewards like the Gold accumulator and different drop enhancers and ports enhancers that can speed up that grind.
or that they're starting to incorporate more of the dungeoneering rewards into upgrades
9:08 Al Kharid resource mine is actually used by a lot of people. I went in there earlier and saw 10 people afking it with porters.
In fsw it was packed.
Its just most people are past that point in the game
I love dungeon crawlers, but unfortunately the dg that was released back in 2010 (I was there for the strange power event, wow the memories) was not taken care of very well in the past 13 years, to the point it has fallen into a state of disrepair. Also regardless of any eoc opinions, it was made and balanced for pre-eoc and for a different community (a lot changes in a decade). I'd say let's get a whole new rework like m&s and make it the dungeon crawler it was always meant to be. Maybe we'll get that - maybe we won't. It is, however, in my opinion, what the skill deserves.
Great video btw, I hope the devs watch this and gleam from it in a constructive way.
DG has been my favourite skill to level, I think most people don't understand how to effectively work as a team doing 5man Large floors, ie calling keys, dropping GS, keying and doing guardian doors
I remember grinding out the dung lv being hype and buying chaotic rapier to grind frost dragons, only to be overshadowed by power creep like Pack Yaks and even more weapons overshadowing. It felt like a cool abode only to see it flooded by power creep from how underwhelming dungeoneering rewards were
Won't lie it was a blast grinding talking skill ceiling and having a GOOD team rushing
What about getting the slayer level for edimu just to spend the next 5 years trying to get 115 dg to unlock the only place to kill them
Truly heartbreaking, at least the blood shard kinda held some value over the years to make the 115 grind (somewhat) worth it
thats so true...im still not 115 dung..i just started doing my dung daily challenges again.
Still wish they’d release this in OSRS. Pre-EOC was peak and super fun
I started playing Runescape a few years ago. While yes, it would have been nice to train the skill with a group, I figured 500k xp/hr (solo) was going to be better than 0 xp/hr (groups don't exist, let's be real). I installed Alt1 and used the dgkey plugin to keep track of where door/keys are. Averaged 1 floor/22 minutes. Not too bad all things considered.
I think the spaghetti code issue will be the main stumbling block for progress. A prime example is that necromancy still hasnt been added to it.
In all honesty if it wasn't a "skill" with highscores, etc it would've been removed already. Some minigames got removed for that exact reason, the spaghetti code.
Yeah, it seems bad. Construction is in a very similar boat as well from what I hear.
@@BloodCovenRS I mean, they fixed Construction in Oldschool, so they could absolutely fix it in Newschool. Think they're just prioritizing other things right now. Which is deeply unfortunate, given that Construction is essentially useless in Newschool right now.
@@LoremasterYnTaris my understanding on that was that the construction code was a bit less spaghetti at the point in time OSRS was forked from, thus it was easier to modify it.
@@dtaggartofRTD Hmm, that's possible. Gods know I don't know how the code for Runescape works.
@@LoremasterYnTaris The way they fixed it in OSRS wouldnt work in RS3, we dont have those problems.
Wars Retreat is exactly what people use POH for: Refilling spec bar (adrenaline), filling prayer, Resetting stats, Hitpoints boost, teleports to bosses, max/minimum hits on dummies.
We also have lodestones so we dont need that Portal Nexus and we can make compacted jewelry and then store those inside a Portable Portal Nexus.
At 99 Magic we can Swap Spellbooks at any bank.
IDK how they could improve on POH but doing something like OSRS has already been done in other places and maybe even better.
definitely a great video, as someone who actually did solo floors to 120 you were 100% spot on. the only thing i'd say is that the resources dungeons are actually amazing. not for actually going in there: but for clues the dung cape gives you so many teleport options to more out of the way clue locations and it saves so much time. but yeah their intended purpose is entirely lost
Damn this one hits close to home. I love group dg but its super hard to find a team, and a good one specially. Hope this mining and smithing updates and the arch dig site bring some much needed life to the skill.
shove everything i hate about runescape into a skill everyone can hate
You know what they say, sharing is caring!
This video is old. And what I'm about to say might have been said already. But I've always hoped that Jaged would release... like.. "other" dungeoneering places? One of my favorite things about runescape is that you can find content of all levels lumped together all across the overworld. Like running from Catherby to Ardy you come across elder trees. Several quest locations. An archeological digsite that's like mid-ish level. And the player owned farm.
Why aren't there other dungeons all around the world? I think dungeoneering would have felt a lot better if every milestone level, like every 15 or 20 levels. You unlock a new place in the world to dungeon dive in. Treat them as mini-raids to tackle.
To that same end. How cool would it be if resource dungeons were small maybe like 4/4 grid randomised room dungeons that also gave you a bit of dungeoneering exp and gave you some of the dated resources. Allowing you to dungeon delve for resources instead of combat. Such a missed opportunity. The concept of a "dungeon delving skill" in a game as unique as runescape was absolutely perfect. But it flat-out misses the mark. I love what we got but I wish they had dared to experiment more.
I think you’re being a little too pessimistic. I wasn’t a high level player and really did save up those tokens for a tier 80 ranged weapon and some useful necklace / ring.
Pessimistic and realistic can be a very thin line sometimes. Chaotics can be a great buy for some players but unfortunately in reality for many, it is much more reasonable (and easy) to save 50m for an Asc Cbow with better stats in today's economy.
Besides resource dungeons, the skill has no application. They should have made abyssal beasts require a certain level of dungeoneering to enter
There's already an item called "Dungeoneering party simulator", which partially fixes the XP disparity between solo and team, but simply buffing solo XP rates would be a terrible mistake. What Jagex needs to do is amend the grouping system and modernize the movement, graphics, bosses, and puzzles within. It's really a skill that needs to be taken back to its MMO roots rather than cast into solo play like everything else. Dungeoneering is not the problem. It's a symptom of the modern MMO and RuneScape experience.
What you said about simulators is misleading. All it does is make a 1:1 floor for example into a 2:2 floor which used to be more xp but ever since 2022 with the iron group DG update, simulators essentially do nothing as going from 2:2 to 3:3 doesn't gain more xp. In fact it's possible that it decreases XP since different party sizes give different base XP amounts. I'm not entirely sure if the simulator changes the base XP for a 2:2 floor to that of a 3:3 floor but if it did, that would be a significant xp loss.
God I remember when it was first released (before rs3 was rs3, it was its testing phase) spending two weeks with my best mate just smashing the skill and doing as many dungeons as possible. It was really fun back when it first came out but they focused too much on making the skill too ‘unique’ and as you said, it really doesn’t interact with the rest of the game because of it. It was always doomed to fall off because of that.
I feel ya, it's painful to see such a great idea go to waste due to poor implementation. Hopefully the future for DG is a little brighter.
I did a dungeon or two with another guy hanging around daemonheim in F2P the day it came out and essentially ignored it for several years. Eventually trained it to 99 reaching that in 2017. Did the whole thing solo.
My biggest gripe is definitely that it should've been a minigame and not a skill. They should've let us progress through floors organically, maybe we unlock lower floors by unlocking them in the token store? Also prestige system SUUCKS. Never make someone repeat what they did at level 1 at level 95, please for the love of Postie Pete.
The little stagger every time you go through a door is noticeable to say the least.
I don't love running skills necessarily, but if there are running skills, don't make me randomly have to stop and solve a five minute puzzle. Let me run goddamit. IMO puzzles have a place, but put them out of the "main path", and into optional rooms for interesting upgrades to gear, or resources that you can use in the rest of the dungeon.
Backtracking sucks. It's okay if I run five rooms in a row and have to teleport back to the start to do five rooms in the other direction, but don't make me go all the way south west, then back to the start to get a key to the east, then back south west to open a door there I couldn't before, then north, then back south west to open another door, then east to open a door there. Let each branching path end in a key or the boss. There's no reason to make this any more difficult. The layout of dungeons CAN make sense even if they are randomly generated.
I know they can't remove it as a skill at this point, but what they can do is make the levelling experience more streamlined, like Archaeology. Definitely still have the highest exp rates being rushing floors as fast as possible, but also make it so that spending time doing relaxing activities in each room rewards you too.
Good video. I agree with some of your points. I like that you mentioned that dungeoneering promotes active gameplay. Dare I say it is the game's most dynamic and engaging skill. I disagree that the balancing of the skill is the reason why people dislike it. For sure, it has to do with the gameplay issues, although I feel that only makes up a fraction of the reason. I would say the primary reason people do not like dungeoneering is because, again, you actually have to look at your monitor. We have become so conditioned from EVERY other skill in the game not to pay attention that when we are forced to, we dislike it. You could argue this is wrong because of bossing and clue scrolls requiring attention, but we never feel like we have to do those activities the same way we feel we must train a skill for max and comp. Second, the dungeoneering tokens are vital resources. They can buy reward enhancers, ring of vigour (as you noted), scrolls, pets, best-in-slot necklaces, etc. Yeah, some items are outdated and should be fixed, I agree. The resource dungeons are largely useless; however, teleporting to them with the skill cape is super useful.
We have to remember that dg came out along the same timeline as WoW expansions and Skyrim style, procedurally generated dungeons. This would've really been an awesome update if it applied more organically to existing dungeons in the game. Instead of being locked to Daemonheim, this skill could've been tweaked to the overall themes of exploring and spelunking. It would have incentivized going to under explored caves, towers, and forests and would've made the game feel larger instead of cramming it into a greyscale island.
The gameplay loop was fantastic. I had the most fun in late RS2, early RS3 doing the dungeons, getting to 120, and eventually selling leech floors until 200m. It had great gameplay, but very awful game design. Such a shame that it was just all locked to some minigame lobby on some random island they made.
This is very true, I haven;t played enough WoW to comment on that front but I do find it interesting that many Skyrim players disliked the dungeon style due to them being repetetive and bring, somewhat similar to the criticisms of DG. I feel like this style of map design was somewhat a developer fad that was doomed to fail once playerbases got the chance to try them. Skyrim was lucky enough that you didn't have to clear hundreds of their repetetive dungeons to level up one of the skills ig.
The only reason I even touched Daemonheim, was to get my Max Cape and Comp Cape. I'm dreading the day I'd have to go back for the Hard Mode "Hard as Daemons" achievement and beat all the levels...again...in hard mode. There is a reason I lamped DG until almost lvl 99 and then again to lvl 112 before even entering Daemonheim.
Also, used all my tokens to get all the pet unlocks. It really is the worst skill next to fletching and even more outdated than Player Owned Houses. XD
Even worse than the long time gated puzzles is not being able to see the colors on those puzzles even with a different skybox like midday.
Churning out lock melters to make it bearable lol
I do enjoy running 5 man larges and still need to get 116-120 but outside of the first Friday and Saturday of a dxp weekend, good luck finding anyone
Also, finding teams to take low level groups through their larges, well that seems like a really big ask nowadays. Most of my friends who have done dg on their new accounts had to solo to 80 or 90 just to find a team to take them through a floor or 2
I haven't touched dungeoneering in over 10 years but I remember it quite fondly, I dont play RS3 anymore but sometimes I wish it was in Old School when I'm feeling nostalgic for those preEoC days. My dungeoneering level is only 29 so I probably didn't get very far but it was mainly about playing it with friends for me, tbh I didn't play very efficiently back then, I don't think I even had a Combat Level over 50. It does feel weird that it's a skill instead of just a minigame but unless you're going for a max cape it doesn't really matter, just don't play it if you don't like it
It takes me a lifetime to do the rushing floors, hate it
Dungeoneering was made for a different game. When it released, the game was more in line with OSRS's pace. I remember Deamonheim being legit slow and challenging on release, because every piece of food mattered, you needed to be smart with your money, organize items, food and potions with your team etc. Especially the occult floors, where I was the only one of my friend group to reach them, because Dung was the only thing I did as a kid since it released. EoC ruined that for me and it's sad to see that it hasnt gotten any better. No hate towards RS3 btw, it's a good game in its own way, it just has so much content that a lot of it can't keep up with its own updates.
I've played since 2015 and I didn't even know dungeoneering was supposed to be done with 5 people
Crazy part is that they've buffed solo exp rates multiple times. At launch it was brutally punishing doing solo runs. Now it's just insulting, instead of a kick in the nuts.
There are puzzles and bosses they could flat remove from the skill that would make it better with minimal effort. The prestige system is terrible, and should be removed or reworked as well, but that would be a bigger lift.
They should also flat remove any skill checks above 99. Not a single person has ever thought it was a fun mechanic to find something requiring a skill check of 100+, forcing you to (if you're lucky) use a portent of passage or (if you're unlucky) screw around making a potion to do it. A potion you have to go to the wiki to figure out, since the in-game skill guide doesn't even tell you which potions increase which skills. Heinous, incredibly player-unfriendly game design. I was so excited to max my skills before going for 120 dungeoneering, and when I ran across my first 102 skill check puzzle I legitimately quit the game for a month.
Hard agree with skill doors, portents were a huge QOL drop but those doors still suck, especially since its impossible to tell if they are on the main path or not.
9:50 My favorite thing about Dungeoneering is the skill ceiling.
Its one of the only things in the game you can actually get good at.
The only others being PvM and Clues.
Dungeoneering had been absolutely the highlight for me and most of the new players in my iron guild just learn to speedrun and all is fun we all collectively got 85+ in a few days on new accs
It's awesome to see new players getting into this skill. Despite the hate, this skill really encapsulates how a skill should be built. Fuck all that afk stuff right off!
I think the ultimate problem with dungeoneering is it is so skill intensive. From Woodcutting to Slayer. Both can be leveled by casually clicking every 5 minutes. Dung requires attentiveness and active participation. In a game where a lvl 99 or 120 can be 100 of hours... yeah hell nah. I have a soft spot for Dung but I also understand why nobody participates. I havent played for 3-4 years tho
Doing dungeoneering was one of the best experiences i had in this game both with randoms or friends. With Friends i have done HM floor which was really fun. i never once really hated my life doing it. I 100% agree that dungeoneering has alot of issues but people hate on it way too much.
On the other hand Slayer is the number 1 skill to most people, which is baffling to me. Sure some rewards from slayer monster can be nice for example totem piece from anachronia slayer, cannon upgrades from Dragonkin tasks, but What part of slayer is fun? its not the best money maker but its not the worst for sure, its not fully Afk but its not active enough to manually do abilities. Its just a pain in the ass imo. If i want to actively play i would do bosses which are way more fun and make more money, and wenever i want to Afk its definitely not the skill i would choose to do. Idk i just find it weird most if not all people say its the best skill.
Once I get 99 slayer in OSRS, I gotta try RS3 slayer
You need to reupload this and fix the audio man... The sound effects are all muted in the right channel and its unwatchable
Thanks for picking that up, idk how I missed it! Will be an easy fix for future videos.
I always wished they would bring dungeoneeering to OSRS as a minigame and not a skill.
Would be fun.
Makes no sense as a skill.
...kinda like sailing. Sounds amazing but why is it a skill and not just something I can do?
TBF they kinda did with the gauntlet but on a smaller scale. Would be interesting seeing the osrs community's reaction in the polls tbh.
personally dungeoneering is my favorite part of runescape 3. but hey when it released runescape lost about 30% of their player base. then they lost another 40% when EOC came out. because people said they "prefered the old combat" meanwhile there was ALWAYS the option to put back your game in legacy mode.
I used to enjoy running dungeons with groups but its become so boring I don't ever do anything there. got 120 and never came back
This is funny. Us osrs players who left after eoc will occasionally complain they miss dungeoneering.
I understand this video is made from the general player's perspective, but the majority of the playerbase do not realize that solo 1:1 DG exp is not far off from your average 5:5 group DG exp rates once you have mastered this skill. He said it best, there's a massive skill ceiling for the Dungeoneering skill. From the perspective of a player who knows how to Dungeoneer pretty well, It's hard to rationalize "solo xp scales BADLY". 8-12 minutes is a realistic 5:5 large floor time comprised of 5 players who just have the basics down. If we use 10 minutes as the average, I would be getting roughly 20% more Exp/Hr than the average group rates. My average 1:1 large floor times are usually 10 minutes or less and includes the additional 20% exp that 1:1 rewards over 5:5. And no I'm not knocking the guy for doing 20+ min solos, as that's pretty standard with 95% of players still figuring out how the skill works. I'm just saying there's 2 different perspectives to look at it from, you either choose to improve or you don't.
This is a really great comment and I understand what you mean for the most part. My only issue is that this even further demonstrates that the exp per hour for solo vs group is broken asf. Players who are skilled enough to do 10 min solos should not be getting the same exp rates as a bunch of beginner players in a group who only know the basics. Skill expression needs to be rewarded and the current system does not do that. There's even more of an issue shown when you compare the exp rates of 5 very skilled players in a group vs 1 equally skilled solo player. In this situation, the group would always have higher exp per hour despite a similiar skill level and effort exerted.
Ahh I remember getting my chaotic maul and going graardor with it... Those were the good days. Now we're old 😂
I loved dungeoneering when it released. Once the serious players who spend a lot of time online have finished their goals and you're left with the casuals, then I can see why people would have trouble
Dungeoneering means elite dungeons to me. I can run ed2 back to back for hours, but I won't touch daemonheim, even on my iron acc.
I feel that, Eds are just so much more fun. The lower exp rates don't even matter when Daemonheim can be such a pain to deal with.
I really liked dungeoneering when I played Rs3 lol. Was my second highest level skill at the time at 92
Here’s an idea…
120 floors
For 120 dungeoneering levels. Each floor you progress gives you one level and progressively gets more difficult.
After 120, prestige just once from floors 40-120 for 200m.
PROBLEM. SOLVED.
personally I hate it because it feels like so many random needed things are locked behind it and outside of going into do dungeons I feel like it doesn tinteract with anything else. like the fact that everything about it is self contained is just boring.
This captures all of my frustrations with one of my fav skills.
I don't hate it, but I don't like it. After a few floors, I get sick of training the skill. I'm compt now, so I don't need to worry about it, but playing on my alt, I'm reminded why I don't train it much and just use lamps.
I feel ya, it just feels like such a huge commitment even doing a single floor sometimes
Stuff like the nature/law staves were useless on release, with the air runes costing more than a law rune for example. I don't know why they nerfed these things so hard into oblivion before they even had a chance to shine, could have been really iconic unlocks.
I just Dungeoneering today with a friend. It was awesome 👏
But... Dungeoneering is my fave. It lets me grind my combat and other skills when I don't feel like grinding traditionally.
I used to hate dung when it first came out then i was forced to get lv 70 in like 2015 for priff and i really enjoyed it then idk what is going on now honestly wish they would add it to osrs or somthing dung related like it
Amazing! Buttt, you better start OSRS YT videos, quality is great, and it's fun to watch. :)
Hope to see you on OSRS soon.
Thank you so much!! I'm cooking some stuff ya'll osrs guys are gonna dig, but ngl the temptation to return to my osrs Iron is real lately.
I hated the skill myself back in the RS2 days, but now I'm almost tempted to go back to RS3 again as I kind of quit after it came out. Just need to get bored of OSRS bronzeman first and decide if I want a fresh start of continue on my old character.
I just wish RS3 had plugin support as I really enjoy how bronzeman makes you engage in more content and isn't just turning Runescape into a GE simulator while also allows for GE once you've unlocked the appropriate content once.
I really loved dungeoneering pre EoC. Teaming with high level maxed players was so cool. Too bad RS3 went downhill and "services" took over. Fuck them.
a no death Blink is an achievement. That's how absurd he is.
The hole is mechanically bankrupt. Having leveled multiple accounts to 99+ I see the appeal. The worst thing about it in my opinion is that it gets samey fast. I agree that just fixing the solo xp would go a long way towards making it livable.
As an ironman I have found that pile of dragon scales useful. Modernizing the rewards some would help a lot too. though that chaotic staff is one of the few reliable to obtain magic weapons. Used one on my Ironman for literal years before finding a better weapon.
Some of the bosses are straight not fun to deal with and make me stop training the skill, I do like dungeoneering on my ironmen accounts mostly
I feel that so hard. Stomp and Blink have been giving me the shits since pre-eoc days, weird tho think very little changed since then
I've achieved 105 dungeoneering mainly off of lamps at this point.
Aye gotta work with what you have when there's no decent teams around. Good luck on 120!
Dungeoneering is fun but that one boss I HATE! Blink has to be the hardest you can get.
I hated this skill from day one that it released... absolutely hated it... i finally got it to 99 during one of the summer events on RS3 ... i ended up working overnight shifts at my work for 2 months during it lol, i legit had my phone open 8 hours every night just afk tapping on the big hole you jump into and get dung xp... i was so happy to finally get it to 99 LMAO
last time i saved up dg tokens for something i really wanted? that permanent gold accu so i can be EVEN LAZIER!
back when i played dg was my favorite skill and the only 200m i ever got. sad to see it is dead content now. it was also pretty good money selling floors to people who didnt like the skill. if i remember correctly warps went for 10m each
i wish they just remoeved the skill and made it a minigame
or removed the 120 and condenced it to 99
1:10 "this minigame- i mean, skill" no you aren't wrong. It was always a minigame. It never got implemented anywhere but the one area (at least, as far as i remember, but now i hear they tried doing that... too little, too late) and in the one area you did the same shit over and over to get tokens to exchange for rewards. Minigame confirmed. Also broke the economy of existing items in the game rather than offering competetive easy to obtain alternatives that weren't best in slot. By overriding literally everything for best in slot, it became mandatory minigame meta and i hated it. Eoc sealed the deal, i quit then.
I think dungeonineering should just be reworked into a complete roguelite.
Alkahrid mine i am useing for daily challange hunter. Imps slawn there fast 😅 and 3 is almost always there
can ironman accounts even do this with other players yet?
when I quit it was because I had to find a group of iron man players to kill Beastmaster Durzag for the corrupted abilities. My active very fun social clan was running that boss but I couldn't join with them because I had to have an iron man only team
I've heard that that is no longer the case though. maybe when they rework combat properly finally I can give it another shot
ya but, jagex isn;t interested in that. you know what couldve saved dung.. necro... put some of the 'well of soul' upgrades in dung and save it... but noo... it's bad for stock price...
Like I said over a decade ago...its a minigame not a skill
I almost feel bad for Rs3 players, but then I remember they can do anything else
Same reason I hate necromancy:
you`re a maxed player with good gear and here you are starting from scratch with no gear, doing no damage.
That`s enough for me, but in dung you can`t even keep your gear, it`s like playing a different game and I hate that.
If I want to play a different game I`ll play a different game.
Questionable? They released absolutely amazing skills; necromancy s tier; invention literally best skill in game period.
hey now hey now hey now
wood island resource dungeon at daemonheim is the bees knees for f2p since they dont otherwise have access to maple trees to cut
_he says while not remembering the last time the f2p skiller was logged on that used that area_
Wait, ppl play f2p?
people want as little as possible to do with this skill that even sinkholes are dead, 2013-2015 sinkholes were so packed that you couldnt get in because there were too many people in
For sure, but I don't think Sinkholes were any better tbh, just easier than Daemonheim to get in and out quickly.
@@BloodCovenRS it was very competitive and rs players as a general rule hate competition with people they don't know
Dung is hated because people are BAD at the game. The skill cap is high, and people are unwilling to learn
I just didn't like having to rely on others for it. Pretty much every other skill you don't need to interact with others to get the best ex pee rates, and it felt tedious after a while. Getting to 120 felt like a slog bc of working with others and the really good people would always get really impatient with anyone who wasn't 100% perfect which also sucked.
By 120 I was decent, but it never made me want to get super good at it because of the other people there, either reaaallly bad or massive assholes
@LazySillyDog you can solo these days (wasn't an option when I trained). I tried it the other day and did a large solo a little over 15 mins.
I get the impatient point, though. I am not impatient, as long as I see someone trying. However, not many people *really* try.
Dungeoneering is literally the only reason why I play RS3.
Here i am, considering doing the archeology collection 2500 times for tokens so i can trade in for xp for 120 because i hate the skill that much 😂
Actually, I just bought the nature staff on ironman, because I want infinity outfit and it'll save runes :p but don't let me get you started on how trash the mage training arena is. :P