Lead Ban For UK Shooters - HSE releases recommendation
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ส.ค. 2024
- HSE have released their long awaited recommendations for banning lead used in ammunition in the UK. Although this is just a recommendation it is very likely it will become enforced although it does give a reasonable timescale for the changes to take effect. I discuss the main points raised and how that may effect shooters or clubs in the UK. It isn't all bad news, some shooters will be happy they are largely unaffected while others will need to make some changes. It certainly will not stop any of us enjoying our chosen sports which is on the whole a good thing..
view the file available at the bottom of the page below
consultations....
As a plumber worked with lead pipe 73 now fit as a fiddle you should be more worried about the water you drink
Glad to hear it.
I totally agree with you on that .
Thanks for taking the time and effort to post your videos. You give such a mature and balanced view on the subjects you report on… such a breath of fresh air!
Thank you, very kind of you. Have a great evening!
It sounds like yet another hash up. A ban but an exception for certain people… a ban except for certain sites… it sounds absurd like all of the Firearms rules. 😢
Thank you for the time and effort you put into the videos they are very informative , i understand the government's views but what about the millions of house's etc which have lead flashings' and the millions of property's which still have lead pipes .
So the next time I go for a ramble in the country I'll take a shovel to dig my way through the mountains of lead being sprayed around. Absolute rubbish.🤣@@davidpalk5010
Dont they mine lead so its already in the ground in one way or another
The environment agency guidelines state that a safe level of lead in soil is around 80mg per kg. A 2019 study by Newcastle Uni into lead levels in allotment soils suggests this level is overly stringent.
ehp.niehs.nih.gov/doi/abs/10.1289/isee.2016.4407
In 2017 the BGS discovered general levels of lead in soil of 180mg per kg, and 820mg per kg in urban areas.
The report can be read here: assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a8210cfe5274a2e87dc0f6c/Lead_toxicological_overview.pdf
But as sulphides, sulphates & carbonates. It doesn't exist as a pure element in nature. That being said? Exposure to lead, inhaling it in dust form (i.e. lead paint) or ingesting it as in drinking water from lead pipes for e.g. We've mostly negated those risks in the UK, but they still do exist.
Been buying a couple tins a month now for the past year fully stocked now
I tried steel with biodegradable shot cups last season. In dry weather with the usual choke considerations steel works on driven game - with some caveats: that the lower density of steel shot reduces effective range, it doesn't spread as much, it kills less effectively. You can correct for those with a bit of practice. The real problem was the biodegradable shot cup which does not work in the rain. Whatever water does to the cartridge prevents the pressure seal you need for the catridge to work properly. In the UK, anything for outdoor use that doesn't work in the rain isn't fit for purpose.
I do believe that foxhounds work in the wet, but may not be as effective.
Of course, the hunting pink might run a bit, and stain the white jodhpurs; don' ya know 😜 🤣
This from the University of Cambridge:
Eating Pheasant Means 'Unwittingly Eating Lead'
"While lead gunshot continues to be used for hunting, people who eat pheasants and other similar gamebirds are very likely to be also consuming a lot of tiny lead fragments,” he said. "By eating pheasant, people are also unwittingly eating lead, which is toxic."
He added: "One pheasant is a reasonable meal for two or three people. Consuming this much lead occasionally wouldn’t be a great cause for concern - but we know that there are thousands of people in the UK who eat game meat, often pheasant, every week."
Around 11,000 tonnes of meat from wild-shot gamebirds, mostly pheasant, are eaten in the UK every year, and currently virtually all pheasants shot in the UK for human consumption are killed using lead shot. Other game including partridge, grouse, and rabbit is also mainly shot using lead shotgun pellets, and wild deer are shot using lead bullets. Hunters often remove the guts of deer carcasses to make them lighter to carry, and the discarded guts - which often contain many bullet fragments - are eaten by wildlife, which then also suffer the harmful effects of consuming lead.
Very informative, thank you. Your well balanced comments clearly outline what’s going on 🙏
There is more chance that birds will not be killed outright if lead is banned, in other words they are condoning maiming and suffering by pushing steel rather than lead. Sure there is a small risk if it’s eaten, however the suffering to birds etc….is something most shooters do not want!
Thats going to make it difficult for those who shoot black power guns unless exempt. My Uncle used to make the molds for making the lead black powder balls. I remember when around 10 making lead balls quit good fun melting the lead, skimming off the scum and pouring into the mold. Then breaking the mould open and sniping off the entry point.
They will be fine as long as they shoot on ranges which delead frequently and adhere to H+S guidance which most already do.
I'd happily switch to lead free. The problem is its hard to get, really expensive and worst of all is not a easy swap because lead is particularly good for ammo and their replacement alloys are a bit on the light side.
Thanks for all the info! Much appreciated.
Living in Derbyshire.As a retired farmer we use to have to spread muck on the exposed mine waist to stop the calves licking and eating it. I know for a fact there is thousands of tons of lead ore etc on old lead mine rakes lying on the surface ,and it's on the surface naturally !
Couldnt agree more! Lead is obviously toxic but also naturally occurring. This is what you get when you pay people in suits to come up with ways to "keep us all safe"..
People need to be careful storing cartridges with steel shot , if it gets moisture in the cartridge and starts to rust , there's a real chance if the shot has rusted together you'll effectively have a steel slug in a choked barrel and could be catastrophic
A few guys tried lead-free .22lr and it was atrocious. Like wax mixed with copper and crumbles. Saucer-sized groups at 25 meters. Glad that it's not going to affect target shooting as much as once feared. However, we need to have lead for practical shotgun shooting as ranges can still be properly constructed to accommodate capturing of lead. We need to reach out to our MP's to have clarification on what "Authorised Ranges" will be. I hope it will be easy for ranges to retrofit and certify to satisfy these rules.
its not going to apply to bullets only shot
@@geezerp1982 Did you not hear that ranges will need to be approved to shoot lead ammunition? As in they will need to capture 99% of the lead shot there?
My very first job in the early 80’s was working in a plumbers warehouse and I was in charge of the rolls of lead and copper pipe. HSE then demanded that you wear gloves when handling lead, because it can be absorbed through your hands and stays in your body. It is a known carcinogen
At the end of the day this is all bollocks
How about muzzle loaderes esp those of us who enjoy occasionally shooting an antique gun? Bloody bs killjoy regulations just for the sake of it!
As long as you shoot on a range that adheres to deleading, record keeping and H+S policy regards lead exposure then you should be just fine.
Yea i don’t know about the uk but here in the states many ppl cast their own lead with a low melting point makes it pretty easy process
@@robb3396 the same here..
Good video. I read the HSE document and understood it. This is a very well-presented description thereof.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Well said. , Just about SPOT ON , For '' NOW '' anyway ?
Air quality at London underground, black mold in uninsulated households, rat droppings and urine in food warehouses, pigeon droppings. Lots of things can be dangerous for environment
Wales have loads of small lead mines and slag gets into the streams, rivers, cows and sheep
Lead - as you know, it is an easily melted, workable metal. The environment has had lead in it ever since man learned to work it into bowls which whould hold liquids. It pre-dates the Roman empire, when they used it to form pipes, etc, as well as vessels. So I think that it's a bit futile to worry about the tiny amount that shooters are putting back into the ground, one way or another. It came from the ground in the first place! - - Although it is not really relevent here, scuba-divers strap multiple kilos of lead to themselves, so that they CAN dive. To replace that with a less massive material would be ridiculous, because of the resulting bulk.
Saw the lead ban nonsense coming a long time ago. I personally believe shotgun usage is the most detrimental, environmentally, but we rarely use them.
So we switched to non lead for our rifles, just as accurate for our purposes. Can't reload 22lr so that will have to stay lead for the moment. I've been watching your recent posts with interest, keep them coming.
what about all the lead pipe still used in Londons water supplies, are they going to ban this .
Not unless we start chucking it around the countryside apparently.
Very informative thanks !
thats fine but what about cap and minie or ball with black power ?
I don’t believe one word of it. I’ve had a lead pellet.22 in my jaw for 42 years with no side effects.
For clay shooting this has the potential to stop many shooters due to the increasing cost. 1000 cartridges currently cost around £300. Steel is about £100+ more and bismuth is well over a £1400. Can only hope steel will get cheaper
It will get cheaper.
Was there any mention on the continued use of .22lr for pest control?? As there isnt any viable option other than lead?
Thus far they are not bringing in any restrictions on lead bullets for live quarry. So for now, pest control with .22rf is fine.
Anything about outdoor air rifle ranges?
We run an outdoor gallery range at my workplace for air rifles.
Air Rifles and Pistols will not be effected at all. No change.
I think that the point that the uk gun laws are at are not going to change much more, I believe like you said that this isn't about the firearms this is about the safety of manufacturing and there trying to keep lead out of the environment
If it was really about keeping lead out of manufacturing and the environment the biggest effect would be to remove lead flashing, which millions of houses in the UK have, but this targets shooters mainly because of the like of Chris packham.
@@darreno9874 I'm not a hundred percent sure but I do believe those are grandfathered into the homes, for the same reason they you will still be able to shoot your bullets with lead in them.
@@whatsMyNameAgainAgain dam, that's dumb that they still use that, I still however think that this isn't about the firearms and there just tryna faze it all out. however I feel that they should be removing it from everything not just a few things.
Well.. this might hinder if not Kill the Bell target shooting groups and leagues in the UK. (quite possible it might not as long as they allow ALL air rifles to carry on using them)
Interestingly indoor ranges remain free of these regulations. I am guessing because they limit environmental pollution ect. So should be fine bud.
@@thatgearguy That's good to know! thanks for clarifying that :) I know a lot of people that will be happy about that!
Further to my comments i as many millions of people have drank water from lead pipes for many years have not suffered from lead poisoning i have worked with lead on roofs etc for over 40 years and i wont die of lead poisoning as many millions on other people won't just a thought i will put out there take care all .
Lead entering the body tend to go into your bones where it tends to stay but this is only a problem with industrial lead workers in lead smelting etc. With new health and safety precautions this is now no longer a problem in a properly controlled work environment. X rays of old lead workers bones would show up like their bones had been peppered with shot. Once in, it can't be taken out. This effect basically make you bones weaker with more of a chance of easier bone breakage.
From Victorian housing right up to the 60s housing, lead pipework from the mains in the road to your house mains shut off tap under your sink will be in lead pipe. This is probably more of a problem than any other.
@@whatsMyNameAgainAgain good comment I agree some people are more susceptible as with many of the chemicals etc in the environment.
Well that’s all the military small arms ammunition banjaxed then as full metal jacket has lead inside them ….. millions of rounds still being manufactured to turn to brass
Mil and Police stuff is exempt. And civvies will still use lead core on designated ranges which will be the vast majority who have controlled back stops and deleading procedures.
Does anyone know someone who has suffered from Lead ingestion or contamination? You will soon know someone who has lost their fingers from steel shot wrong choke though. You will be able to thank the HSE for keeping us safe.
I know of several people. Shooting on Mil/Police ranges. Multiple people have gone down with lead poisoning and had to have time off and treatment. This was due to prolonged fire using suppressors and the resulting exposure to gases from back pressure.
@@thatgearguy Yes can be nasty stuff especially continued fire on a range , not to the normal shooting man in the field. maybe HSE should be looking at ministry ranges in your case.
@@ballisticsmeg That is why I was very surprised that indoor ranges got a free pass on all this regulation as did Mil and LE. That is the only combo I know of that actually did harm people and its been ignored!
Older I get the more messed up it becomes.
Because public servants are a human resource and like all resources, they are expendable.@@thatgearguy
A lot to absorb but one important take away is that the stock piling of lead shotgun cartridges is a pointless exercise because if the ban when it comes into force covers sale AND use then the very last thing you need is a large quantity of unusable ammunition. Bearing in mind that this will be enshrined in some form Firearms legislation the consequences for continuing to use it after the cut off date don’t bear thinking about - revoking of licences, confiscation of shotguns would surely follow as a matter of course and none of the shooting bodies would be in a position to offer or indeed willing to offer support.
As for the various factions within the shooting world being willing to throw others under the bus in order for their particular form of shooting to be left alone - ain’t that the truth. I’ve remained loyal to BASC for many years but in recent years that loyalty is tied to their continued intervention in the operation of the General Licence. My feeling at the time of the introduction of this ludicrous piece of legislation was that certain sections of the Game shooting world soft peddled in the hope that game shooting would not draw enemy fire. Many seemed to conclude that BASC wasn’t really interested, I think they’ve been proved wrong but BASC may have been surprised about just how strong a considerable number of it’s membership felt about the General Licence. We all hang together or we will surely hang alone?🤔
Very well said.
Where is the scientific reseach and who was it done by. Lead comes out of the ground, water (rain ground water) runs through it. How long does it take for lead to to dissolve, does it dissolve ?
How will it affect me shooting ball in my Kentucky.
By them banning lead shooting foxes with a shotgun will be dodgy, myself makes up aaa’s in a 3 mag cartridge that takes them out quickly.
Bisley couldn't de-lead the danger area ... it's full of unexploded mortar bombs from WW2
Shooting clay loadings in steel (7.5 - 9 shot) at 24g is fine through tight chokes. It is small enough not to lock up in the horizontal plane which can happen with 4's and larger and bulge barrels. The north Europeans have been shooting steel out of unmodified trap guns for decades now with no problems. HOWEVER what is not being reported here is that the north Europeans are now reviewing the lead ban as aerial photos of clay ground show huge crescents of orange ground in the fall out area where the steel has contaminated the land. The lead shot oxidises and doesn't leach but steel rusts and does. As usual our civil service refuse to learn from other countries experience with many 'dynamic situations'. Personally I choose Gamebore and Jokker steel clay cartridges and get superb patterns, (better than lead) but I find Eley steel clay biowad cartridges unpleasant to shoot and the smoke in the barrel smells like pooh.
Plus it’s smooth bored, rifled bores will get ruined very quickly
@@davidw2454 Nobody with any brains is shooting steel through a rifled barrel.
@@davidw2454 This is not the findings from keepers who have been using monolithics for quite a few years now. The accuracy is also exceptional and expansion is very good.
@@thatgearguy They are. Do your own long term test!
@@snook1249 I am a Ballistician, that is my day job. I spent the last 10 years developing specialist ammunition for Mil and LE. If people were shooting steel through rifles I would have heard about it. They arent, because it would be totally idiotic. They run monos with brass or copper which are good but more expensive currently. Not steel.
they banned lead in california. most other US states still ok. half my big stuff 44 spl, mag and 45 acp, colt is lead. its also coated. i reload so not factory ammo.
California might be more woke than the UK!
@@thatgearguy i believe so. i am a georgia import from the uk. country is a night and day difference. so safe here you can walk to the grocery store at night, go figure that.
@@paulfisher4660 To be fair I could say the same here. I live in a rural area and crime is virtually non existent. The cities in the UK, not so good but I am guessing that is similar in most developed countries. The two exceptions I have found to that were Hungary and Switzerland. Cities were incredibly safe.
@@thatgearguy even in the basic suburbs the odds of any social disagreements with undesirables is nearly unheard of.
Hello I wanted to find out about shooting 6mm aluminium bbs out of airsoft guns and where that falls in the law? Because owning a gun that’s shoots 4.5mm metal bbs are illegal unless you have a license does that turn it into a crime?
It would depend on the colour of the gun and the energy produced by your BB!
@@thatgearguy oh right good to know thanks I knew it was a grey area
Has any one discussed this with the scallywags stealing all the lead of the church roofs.
What about the lead in your pencil, can you make that safe.
Im getting old, there isnt much lead left in mine!
There is no lead in a pencil, it's graphite. Before graphite was discovered, (300 years ago) yes, a sharp pointed piece of lead was used, when graphite replaced lead, the word lead just happened to stick.
@@thatgearguy 😂😂😂
@@brynybach7741 that's just not funny though is it.
Seems to me that all this is all the polar opposite of health and safety !
BAE Systems make 1,000,000 rounds a day and a £2.4 billion contact to supply the MOD. I suppose HSE will be closing them down?!
Mil and LE are exempt. This is discussed in the video.
The Military and police are exempt from this, so this is an attack on civilian gun use. If lead was that dangerous to the shooter why are the police in particular being allowed to shoot lead shot. The reason is its the best option. I think there is a potential problem with banning lead shot because many guns will not be able to use steel, but there is a possibility that a dense plastic shot will become available, and I'm sure the eco activist will love that.
Security forces are generally exempt from such regulations. HSE dont wander onto Mil bases. REACH effects everyone outside of national security services so it isnt directly targeting civvy shooters, just civvies generally in all occupations and hobbies.
@@whatsMyNameAgainAgain it is already happening. Several companies are testing them and tweaking them.
Oddly I understand the Police and Military are to be exempt
Not really that odd. Dont forget this is all being done under REACH Compliance/HSE. It would be akin to HSE angrily telling Paras to stop jumping out of planes because they havent done the 1 day "working at height" course.
I got tons of lead and a pellet maker so it won't effect me.
They are not restricting airgun pellets at all.
Is the ban in 2025 or another 5 years? 2030 ?
It will be 5 years from when it is officially bought in. This is just HSE recommendation but it will likely go through.
Okay, and what about people stocking up on ammunition or home loading? Shops may run empty on lead ammo but shooters may have bulk ammo at home. Can’t stop you doing that ?
@@harrisontaylor4531 The ranges effected will be the ones to stop you because they will be fined. Target shooters at most ranges wont be effected anyway because if the range have deleading and capture procedure they are exempt as far as this doc goes. What shooting discipline are you talking about?
Basically.. Stock up!..
Sounds to me like you know very little, and took the opportunity to have a pop, if you don’t don’t comment or make videos bismuth is very expensive and therefore only open to those that have money to throw away will be able to afford to shoot, Firearms with rifled barred of which there are many may not be able to use an alternative material to lead as it will very quickly strip the rifling away and become useless.
Well I am a Ballistician earning 6 figures so the industry thinks I know a little.
lead comes from the environment didnt they know that ffs
Most shotguns in good condition and nitro proofed are quite safe to use with standard steel loads providing no choke over half , myself personally wouldent use a choke over improved cylinder for my own peace of mind , but being as steel patterns tighter than lead you wouldn't notice the difference, But on the whole steel compared to lead is Absolutely crap , Eley produce a steel load for old 2.5 inch chambered guns with a rolled turn over crimp , there crap and exspensive ,,,,,,
They may well be but it would be very wise to proof them if they arent already. Nobody needs to risk their safety for the sake of £100.
@@thatgearguy I agree but the afore mentioned load was specifically designed to be fired in old English guns that are not steel proofed Eley traditional steel pro .
As someone who shoots 10k steel shot a year it's a skill issue not a shot material issue if people think steel is crap. AA class in skeet and sporting with 24g steel 7 1/2 gamebore super steels.
@@bumblesquatt Maybe you should tell that to AAA 27 times world champion George Digweed who also says steel is shit , I'm only a Humble AA myself , take your 24 gram 7.5 steels down to willow farm in Kent and see how far they take you on a Sunday 100 bird English sporting,
@@bumblesquatt Agreed. I know plenty of great shooters that have run steels on challenging targets and been happy.
Steel shot is perfect for shotguns, I shoot 10k steel cartridges a year, skeet / quarter choke, skeet and sporting it powders birds. People who fear steel in shotguns haven't done a lick of research or shooting with it. 20% more shot and you don't need more than 24g 7 1/2. More than half choke is too much but most shotguns are STANDARD steel proof, the Fleur-de-lis is for HP steel.
Do you wound many?
Show me a clay shooting ground that is not lush and green from thousands of ounces of lead falling down. This lead bollocks is just that. BOLLOCKS
Europe are in a period of reasessment. The steel is rusting and dumping oxide into the environment. At least the lead doesnt degrade and break down over time. But we can stamp our feet all we want, it wont change anything.