Cart Top Fixture Plate on the Flex CNC (216 Holes)
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 มิ.ย. 2024
- I'll setup the Flex CNC to run a demo job machining a cart top fixture plate. 212 holes are drill and tapped and 4 holes are drilled and counterbored. After this job I discovered an issue I was having with rigid tapping but since then that issue was resolved and I can now resume the work. I'll have some more of these plates to machine that are even larger and more tapped holes.
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I hope this helps.
If you want to also use the manual probe to get Z0 of your workpiece(s):
Set it as tool 99 or something you never use then, after you've determined Z0 with the tool setter (like you shown), put the manual probe in the machine, set it's height H99 to 0 (zero), go to roughly the same location and go down until the needles are both on 0 (zero) - the probe should also work on Z, not only horizontally.
Now check the absolute position and subtract the values for Z you found with the tool setter method (G56). Save that value as the probe's height, for tool 99.
In the future, you can use the probe itself to also find Z0 of the workpiece, by lowering it until both needles are on 0 (zero) - that's going to be the value you need to put in G56.
I used this a lot on a fadal cnc. We only had a manual renishaw probe, very similar to yours.
Cheers
I had to drill and ream a couple of thousand holes into some acrylic at work several times, CNC machine to the rescue
Engineers always have some way of sorting stuff in a manner that I would never understand even if explained in most simple terms ! Thanks for the video, have a great week end.
Listening to the video it sounded like it was making a noise on the retract. Glad they fixed it for you. Thread milling is something you might want to learn. Also a back chamfer tool. 😊 Great video
Sounded raspy, didn't it?
@@Bob_Adkins Tap dragging on the way out.
you need to use sealed collets for through coolant tooling otherwise you loose the vast majority of your coolant pressure. you got by on this plate due to it only drilling about an inch deep but on deeper holes you will have issues with chip evacuation. also when taping i would recommend using through coolant with an unsealed collet.
I think how your grand dad would marvel at this tech Adam... thanks for sharing ;)
Adam, set your retract height well above your clamps as a habit. It might take 3 seconds longer in the cycle time but it beats paying 200 bucks for a new tool.
Yes, in piece production it doesn’t make the slightest sense to put Z5 instead of Z100.
@@skydimm7325, z100 works on first run to verify program, z height can be adjusted for fast production down the road. Z5 with a tool breakage & replacement, what time was saved.
@abom79 One of my most favorite videos you have put out and I have watched almost all of your content from this channel to your adventures channel. Keep up the AMAZING work
Glad to see you are progressing well and gaining confidence with the CNC machines. The special tapping heads that provide a bit of float is the way to go in the long run even if they were able to tune the issue out of the machine. I don't mind the mix of old machines and new machines on the channel it provides a nice variety and compare/contrast.
Thanks for the show Adam 🍻
Very interesting video. Thanks for that. Really amazing machine. I can tell that you are getting more and more confident using these CNC tools. Thanks again.
Adam, it's great to see you transitioning into CNC world. Keep making videos like this. These are very valuable, especially for people who are at the beginning of their machining career like me. All the best from Ireland!
This is a good video,Adam altogether.Thank you.
Fantastic work as always. Great trouble shooting. Keep the good work coming.❤
Once you discovered the tapped threads quality, two changes were made. The Flex people went in and made adjustments to the machine and secondly, a different tap was used, the Walter tap.
To prove what was the issue, I would have used the previous tap to see if the Flex programing made the fix or if it was the tap. Once the Walter tap was used, you have no way of knowing if it was the previous tap failing you or the machine or both.
I wonder if running that program again using the Walter tap will clean up the threads?
It was for sure the parameter value that they had to change.
Really really cool Adam. I enjoyed every second of your video.😃
That machine goes so fast, I would be scared! Thanks for the sharing and education! Respect for your abilities to learn and move on. Thank you u (Say hey to Abby!)
When you get into CNC machining you have to get used to the much higher speed. I was watching this thinking he could be pushing the drills much faster here, especially with the thru tool coolant!
It's fun to watch him diving into CNC work after his experience as a manual machinist.
Awesome video!
I can hear in your voice that you are becoming more confident in your learning journey to learn CNC.
The shot from gopro in cabnet looks great
You should be using sealed collets with those through coolant drills.
Don't bother. Everyones been saying it for months, he doesn't listen.
13:24 That's actually a rally good idea! .. The smaller lighter pneumatic Flex_arm tapping machine, will be more suited to to Home SHop now the new shop is getting so big ... good plan!!
13:32 I'm sure at this pont Adam meant to say "on the Flex CNC" ... nnt Flex-Arm :)
Adam, enjoying this episode immensely...
last July, I took a 1x48x48 inch 6061 T6 plate and made
a welding fixture plate from it...[184] 27/64 holes tapped to 1/2-13.....using a mag drill..had to do
some finagling to get the mag to stick to the aluminum....
it was a lot of work,,,,,I used a 7/16 " annular cutter for the main hole [way faster than a twist drill]
then came back with the 27/64......final run was the 1/2-13 gun tap.......
a bit soft compare to steel, but I only paid $200 for the plate.....and I can move it about the shop
if I need the skeleton table it is on......
Cheers my friend, Paul in Orlando
Your 27/64" should last just about forever...lol
Hi Adam, even though the moveable tap holder will work well, I would still like to know exactly what adjustment was changed in the cnc control, and how much they had to tweak it. thank you
Oh no! No tap, tap. Glad you got things worked out.
14:57 Six Flute!!!, and in solid carbide!! It'll cut nicely!!
16:34 .. AHHH what a great innovation!. and Air Shield to keep coolant off the camera and give a better view! .. Look forward to that. But even with coolant splashing all over though, in the meantime, I'd rather see some of the action :)
Perfect 👌
more hole drilling, it just keeps getting better!
20:47 I used to operate a "Gang Drill "with 6 spindles when I was in the machine shop. Frankly it was used 90% of the time with just one or two spindles going :) ...
But a job like this?? It would be well worth setting up!! Even the Flex-CNC would have trouble keeping up with a 6 spindle drill press!! :)
The thing with CNC's though, they are FAST and perfectly accurate! AND consistent.
I saved this vid to help me on those nights I have trouble sleeping. It’s like digital Ambien!
great video
good to see you figured out the problem with the tapping
keep up the good work
23:46 a custom made step cutter would speed up the job by eliminating the chamfer tool for all the 27/64" holes. But frankly I don't know how much they cost, never mind the lead time.
One advantage of CNC is it can eliminate the need for custom cutters too!! The counter bore here is a GREAT exampe, the cutter Adam has set up for the counterbored holes? Can LITERALLY make ANY diameter counterbore over it's nominal diameter.
Of course same with the chamfer tool too!!
If you're going to use TSC with an ER collet You need a sealed collet to keep the coolant running through the tool not around it.
I thought that it was a new feature. it LOOKS cooler :)
Came here to say this.
Spiral fluted tap may well be the answer.
Adam, rigid tapping backlash was misadjusted. Probably. Reverse rotation was galling on pullout. This is what the tech guy must have fixed.
Would it help to slow the spindle speed down by half of the current speed? Just a thought.
Adam, I have a question if you don’t mind. Can you explain why you don’t just use a large enough chamfer tool bit for the holes,as opposed to the method you used requiring the power head to move around the hole? I’m not a machinists but I’m thinking it could reduce the cycle time if the chamfer tool would just go to each hole position like the drilling operation. Thanks
Chatter and surface finish are typically why you would interpolate the chamfer instead of a drilling operation. This is because a lot of cncs perform best at higher rpms, which would chatter a chamfer tool that diameter. Sometimes it works fine though.
He's probably using what he has, or what was already in the machine. The fastest solution would be to use a stepped chamfer drill, hole and chamfer at the same time.
Have you thought of applying Rain-X to the camera lense? Might make any coolant splashed on it run right off. Might also be a dumb idea, but its a thought.
works, but it works for about 20 mins, and it turns your coolant bad.
Would be curious to know what the adjustment was.
If the machine is capable of rigid tapping you would think that they would have tested that functionality in their development process, especially with how commonly that feature is used.
Now that the issue has been fix can you just leave the fixture that is already been tapped a just recap the holes will a new tap or will you have to use the Flex Arm? Or hand tap all of the holes?
it also happens on other machines,, hm drills drill precisely, the problem is the tolerance between the drill and the tap. if you drill + 0.1mm the problem disappears ,, no screeching or bad noises try it before adjusting the machine
When I have to cnc tap steel, I use some really thick gooey tap oil. The coolant just is too thin for that. But mostly I threadmill so to avoid the dreaded busted tap.
that was a crazy chamfer program for sure.....any advantage to the drill mill for chamfering instead of a counter sink?
Adam, if you get you a tension compression tapping head, you could just let the flexcnc fix all those threads. I think they would clean up pretty easy. I couldn't tell, but it didn't seem like the tap was running far enough down. I only say this from looking at the wear pattern on the tap.
He can't change the tooling and then re-thread, it would cut double threads.
@@SUMOCAT86 I do it all the time. The T/C adapter allows the tap to drop into the existing thread. You can't do that with a rigid tapping holder though.
The idea is that a compliant tapping head will follow the existing thread.
@@carlhitchon1009 It won't though, there's enough preload on the tapping head so it starts the cut at a differrent location.
@@RJMachine62 Are you doing this on CNC machine? I use Emuge Franken tapping heads and they have enough preload before it starts to float so it won't work.
This may be a dumb question, so please excuse my ignorance. Why can you not use the Reneshaw probe to indicate the workpiece like you do on the smaller CNC mill? It seems like that would be so much easier. Keep up the good work! I have loved watching all of your content and this foray into CNC has been exciting to watch as you learn and keep expanding your knowledge.
Probably because he doesn't have wireless probing installed on the machine. It requires a receiver wired into the control along with the supporting macros and software to run it. If he doesn't have that then the spindle probe isn't much more than a paperweight.
Three things. I am curious about all the up and down movement getting the head in position to change tools. Probably not all that much time since this is not production work. However, just more movements to go wrong.
There are a lot of chips on the work after drilling. I'm wondering if these foul the tapping operation.
What is the plate? Is there an issue with springy and/or gummy plate.
All the tool change is built into the controller and will be designed with safety and accuracy first, speed second, not dome thing Adam csn change.
I think threads are not even because u use HSS tap.. I think you should do this with special carbide tap for steel
Looks like you are starting to transition from practice and basic learning to atuff CNC is good for. You've got the machines to go into production for sure. Is that a future aim?
Curious how long in time, the CNC compared to you doing it manually?
With his mill, it would take a few set ups to rotate the plate.
How many cycles would you use on that tap before replacement?
It depends on many things, but if it's mild steel and the holes are that shallow, probably thousands.
Sounds like the Z servo wasn't calibrated just right for the ballscrew pitch. Kinda like the steps per rotation or steps/mm on my hobby CNC router. Seems to be correct now. Maybe all that should be checked during setup by the tech that installed it.
17:27 interesting effect (the coolant coming from the tip of the tool)
Win for the strobe effect of the camera frame rate vs. speed of the coolant droplets.
Dear Adam. I have a couple of Coventry die heads but don't know what size the dies are.
Ebay has metric sets in 1/2, 3/4 and 1 inch.
Could you please explain how to measure my existing chasers, so that I can order some new ones correctly.
I must say that I find your channel really inspiring. You manage to cater for all levels of machinists skills without loosing the beginners along the way.
Many thanks and love to Abby.
George Bear. X
Kind of surprised that the CNC wasn't set up for this in the first place and someone had to go back and make the adjustments.
Imagine doing all that with a mag drill.. or even a knee mill. Torture. Production, no way. Good catch on the tap cycle.
QUESTION: When drilling the holes, how much weight does the CNC put on the cutting edge as it drills down?
IT depends on feeds and Speeds
12 ounces.
Depends on so many things,
The CNC feeds down at what you set the feed rate at, it does not know how much weight is being applied.
The exact same cutting operation would have more resistance when the cutter is older .. or LESS resistance with a 6 flute cutteran a 2 flute, for a couple examples.
Generally your Z motor wont go below 0 on a vmc, meaning no more than the weight of the head.
In this video? About 250kg
Just finding such a metal plate would be insanely hard even though that I'm basically 30 minutes to the next steel mill, they simply don't sell to private people and for companies also only for those who take several tons.
You should have put M01 in the program after the 1st tapped hole and also stop and check every few holes.
Sorry for slow response, Adam. Saw you using the Haimer for setting work offset for x & y. Looks like on screen that the Haimer is # 99. Thought I’d add that you could put the Haimer in your tool setter and compress till Haimer zero like you would for x & y and use the value on your tool setter for z tool length. Then in future just compress Haimer to zero while on tool 99 and set z to zero. You may want to check height with a few tools to set your trust in use 99 for z zero setting whether it’s on top of part or top of parallels. Z could be off some if cosin error was introduced while compressing probe to zero on meter dial. Also thanks for your hard work on videos and enjoy that it’s you live with no voice over..
Wonder if you can still re-tap the other plate and save it.
The issue is with how to realign the threads... A lot of machines can track the rotation as it taps (which allows you to re-tap if needed), but once you change the tool or move the plate that orientation won't match the previous threads.
Looks like it tapped some some of the holes twice on the sped up video. I can imagine that would not give a good result as the spindle would have to be perfectly synchronised.
7:00 What is the yellow 'X' on the spindle for?
Most likely the designation is M19 for installing a single-tooth boring head.
It could also be for when he is manually loading tools into the spindle.
Making sure the tool goes into the spindle in the same orientation helps ensure repeatability.
Hi Adam Using a compression/tension tap holder is a very good insurance policy. I always use one for taps under 12mm(1/2"). Also I may I suggest that you switch to spiral flute machine taps in lieu of the straight flute. Cheers.
You might think about putting a mirror on a magnetic base for the view along the “y” axis at a distance.
Synchronisation issue. The Z feed motion has to be perfectly in sync with the spindle rotational speed (obviously) in order for a thread to be produced, just like producing a thread on a manual lathe.
If that first plate is for you it might be worth running a similar program again with the next size up.
It's jobs like these that the CNC machines really come into their own. They aren't the most interesting videos to watch for the manual guys though but the clue is in the title.
28:35 That's actually fascinating!!! I love how power a CNC feed (the Z axis) for tapping, it knows exactly how much t feed down and up according to the taps TPI specification :)
35:01 !!!!! EDIT!!!!! : Welp, there goes that theory, if the tap isn't slipping, that means the Flex can;t get the feed rate right at any faster of RPM :( .. that sucks!! :(
Further edit: Like Adam said who know what they adjusted??? OR? WHY it is even ajustable??? Why would it be made to mess up the tapped hoes?
Rather than adjusting the software, as Adam said, I wonder if they made Firmware adjustments? Something that NOT even able to be modified by the end users??
It would not bee practice on the small holes, but anything over say 1" the taping could technically be done by a single point thread cutter wot multiple passes. This would be cost effective for a few holes, for example, where you don't even OWN a tap that size!!
The tapping being done right now is SOOO accurate, the Thread even starts at the exact same start point on every hole, that not even possible, for a regular milling machine.tapping set up.
Isn't that a straight flute, manual type tapper? Shouldn't it be a spiral tap that is meant for CNC where the chips are directed upwards and out of the hole? Seems like the ap chips are being left in the hole and buggering up the threads, and wearing out the tap.
Fixture plate, eh. Talk to Saunders 😊
Looks like you are using a ER 16 and er 20 or 40 Collet holder for drilling they make collets so you can do through coolant. drilling so it stays in the drill and not through the call it
Probably that straight tap can't get rid of the swarf, ruining the thread as well as the tap - try a spiral flute tap instead. But you're not going to identify the cause of the problem changing two or more variables at the same time.
31:05 - Btw. that's the speed I'd like to see that run at.
Why the extra coolent from the left side
...for the HELL of it-(?)
216 Holes to drill, shouldnt take you more than a few hours to do on your CNC!
Some might say it took 43mins and 42 seconds
When ever I see you doing tapping manually you always use some sort of cutting fluid like that foam stuff. When the CNC does it it just sprays it in water/oil fluid. How come?
Using coolant is standard procedure for cnc tapping like this.
How many fixture plates could you set up on that bed
As many as a wood chuck could chuck wood.
All of them
Should you be using a sealed collet when using through spindle coolant drills?
Hi Adam. Your tap angle in the spindle needs to exactly match the start of the lead. I think you have got this a bit wrong, so the spindle angle doesn't match the tap position exactly. This is critical! In other words the position of the tap thread is critical to the exact spindle rotation position and feed.
Provided your rotating and feeding at the right speeds prior to engaging the work piece it makes no difference whatsoever...
@davidstone1579 It sounds like you're talking about matching the tap rotation to an existing thread, but Adam is creating the threads from a blank drilled hole, so it just needs to feed in at the correct amount for the thread pitch to work.
maaaaan do I wish I could justify a tapping arm. I usually max out a 5/8" and the "cheap" ones max out at 1/2" / 13mm
34:40 .. The only way it could ne messed up is of the tap slipped in the collet ... I canNOT imagine the Flex got the feed wrong?/ It's not even adjustable, it's set when you tell it what the tap is.
always drill you hoels + 0.1 mm over the tabel size you tap goes 100 times more and no bad sounds just a cnc trick
Huh, I've never seen coolant set up like that before, with a stream keeping the entire top surface submerged. Do you think it works better than just having focused streams at the cutter?
The constant stream is to wash the chips down to the augur that's constantly running underneath
It's just a bust pipe. :-)
The machine has through spindle coolant. Unfortunately he does not use sealed collets that would direct the coolant through the tool as it should, to wash out the chips from the bottom of the hole as it cuts..
How about the original plate? Did you test with go / no go gauges? Try manually re=tapping?
I would think getting a tool that doesn't rely on you manually reading a dial would make sense when you have a CNC.
Actually, using a piece of paper is quick and easy, I do this all the time on older Cnc machines I run, takes just a minute and you're off to the races. Gas on it.
Abom cnc channel. I miss manual machine work.good ole CCE, vintage machinery and blondihacks knows whats up.
He releases manual machining videos just as often as these CNC videos. If you don't like it, unsubscribe. I'm tired of people complaining anytime a CNC video comes out
There are plenty of manual machining videos on Abom. I mean, how many thousand different setups do you guys need to see 'how to manual machine a axle'
This content is much better, get over it already Thanks Adam for finally getting closer to caught up to technology about 30 yrs late, good stuff.
@@fabricancustoms I'm tired of people like you complaining about complaints. Who the hell do you think you are? You don't control other people, they have a right to voice their opinion just like you. Don't like it? Don't read it!
Fully agree with @michaelwooda9444 👍
Setting up parts to machine on a CNC, seems to be VERY time consuming! :(
4hr~ CNC setup, Then run 10000000 parts at 20 mins a pop
20 hours manually drilling and tapping all those holes, To make one plate, Then you gotta start from the beginning
It makes sense when you break it down.
You'll take it, and you'll like it. Have an average day: :|
@@silasmarner7586 lol that is an amusing comment
Dear Atom if you could contact me I would like to get your input on a project of a
Motor used lift cylinder.
This was like watching paint dry
And yet you did.
Well I'm sure there were many other things you could have been doing with your time.
...well, "if ya don't LIKE IT- then ya don't have to EAT IT!!!"
@@tsmartin 'they forced me to. There was nothing I could do'
Hallo Adam , i think you better used spirale tap
*Summary*
* *0:00* The video starts with an introduction to the project: machining a cart top fixture plate on a Flex CNC.
* *0:15* The TH-camr shows the fixture setup process.
* *2:34* Work offset setting using a 3D sensor and a tool setter is demonstrated.
* *11:00* The TH-camr explains the purpose of the fixture plate and the overall project involving a Flexarm cart.
* *14:02* All the cutting tools (Walter Titex, IMCO, OSG) are shown and explained.
* *16:18* Machining begins, starting with drilling operations.
* *21:14* Commentary on the performance of the Walter Titex drills.
* *22:48* The counterboring operation is shown.
* *24:19* Chamfering all the holes is done next.
* *27:25* After cleaning the camera lens, tapping operations begin.
* *33:02* Initial inspection of the machined plate shows issues with the tapped holes.
* *36:01* An update on the tapping issue: Flex Machine Tools engineers remotely adjust the software settings.
* *38:57* The TH-camr shows successful tapping after the software fix, demonstrating thread quality.
* *41:04* The TH-camr discusses the future use of tension compression holders for improved tapping.
i used gemini 1.5 pro to summarize the transcript
Well done sir, and I support you assisting Mr. Booth in excuting this on a trial basis.
At my job. I have to make lot of cutting plates. 100-150x 3mm holes, 30-40mm deep. Yeah it can be boring….
Why didn't you say "Yeah it is boring…." instead? That would be a nice pun.
Gotta go, theres some paint drying somewhere
I think you had your X and Y mixed up. accross the gantry is usually the X and gantry movement is usually the gantry Y movement.
First!
Not really a good look for Flex’s programmers if you ask me. A problem like that should never leave the factory.
I built, tested, and sometimes repaired critical software most of my professional life. Even the best software has problems, especially in its early releases. The mark of a good software team building quality software is that they were able to come in, find the problem and then fix it. Eventually, other customers of Flex CNC will benefit from what happened here.
Manual lathe 👍
Roll form the threads. The sprung tapping heads are designed to feed at a smaller lead.
Whuuuuuu uhhhhhh?? Ah behg yer paaahhhhrrrduuuhn?
@@silasmarner7586 Roll forming, deforming the hole size to create the finished tapped thread rather than cutting it, do a search, expand your, well, what ever you want to call your life.
😛😛😛😛😛😛❤❤❤❤👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
Learn to use and program threadmills. I dont tap anything in a cnc any longer.
they are nice, but thread milling 216 holes would take a considerable amount of time compared to using a tap.
Threadmilling holes in hardox about 2 minutes each, tapping is 15 seconds, if you can tap why would you threadmill.
@@DanielMac1052 So that the threaded holes dont turn out like his did or worse break off a tap in the part. Its not like he is manufacturing these on a large scale and seconds really count. Being in control of how the threads come out is worth it in my book.
It would be extremely wastefull. There is no issues tapping in mild steel, you can tap thousands of holes with single tap.
Switch to Sanka bro
One problem encountered with inrequent use of a tool is that the operator tends to lack the expertise that is required from frequent use over a period of time. It will take time or you may find that a seasoned opertaor is in order for the future as business expands. Mastery of multiple machines takes time and sometimes years of experience. Maybe contract an experience operator to work with you on some projects to have someone looking over your shoulder until you gain the required knowledge and experience.
YOU ARE SOOOO RIGHT ! ! !
He is a one man ban and not getting big batches in. He is struggling with CNC which a lot of manual machine men think is just press cycle start. Nothing wrong with solid tap holders on a CNC.
A79 is only days away from being able to make fireball tables with his setup. He will run fireball out of business with this large surface. He can make at least 8 tables at a time.
As good, and interesting as this stuff is, its not what I subbed here for.
Then unsubscribe. Jesus
It's a well rounded channel, This is 2024 you know, not 1954, makes me wonder what other old technologies you are stuck in...hmmm 🤔
@@fabricancustoms I have, thank you.
@@larryrobinson7492 Manual machining is still a thing. Its where this channel started. Like I said, its not why I joined