Sturmey Archer Front Wheel Dynohub Overhaul (60+ years old)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 ก.ย. 2024
- I overhaul a Sturmey Archer Dynohub on the front wheel of my 1954 Indian Scout bike. I am guessing it's a GH8 or GH6. Disassemble, clean, lube, new bearings, re-assemble. The number 753 appears on the hub which I assume is a date code of 7/1953. A Sturmey Archer Dynohub is a wheel hub that has a generator built into it, that generates AC electricity to power a headlight/tail light.
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It's a thing of beauty you did there, RJ, injecting a new life to a 60 years old grimed and rusty device. One of your best vids, i think. Those vintage restored bikes have to sell with a premium, don't they.
It's important to note that the tightening of the lock nut on the generator side is critical as the friction this applies to the armature is the only fixing which secures the armature to the stationary reference of the axle as opposed to the rotating reference of the magnet and the rest of the wheel. Every time I've seen a Sturmey Archer generator (either a GH6 or an AG 3 Speed rear generator hub) not generating, it has been insufficient tightening of this lock nut. Theoretically, if this nut was to work even a little loose while the hub was wired up, it could tear off the ends of the wires as the magnet dragged the armature into the rotating frame of reference.
Typically the non-generator side would have a washer about 3mm thick between the cone and the lock nut to take up the slack, this was likely removed when you speedometer was fitted, I had to remove mine when I fitted a speedometer.
As for the forks, it isn't uncommon for these hubs to be retro-fitted to bikes, I have a 1978 and a 1980 Triumph Traffic Master and both have retro-fitted GH6s, as a result they feature keyhole shaped fork dropouts, I find the best way to deal with these is to slide the axle in as you demonstrate then turn it through 90 degrees to lock it in position and ensure both sides are correctly installed.
Thank you for the video, you made it look so easy, just like you did with the AW gear hub (It was your video that gave me the confidence to attempt it, I've now done several and as a result achieved god-like status at my local bike shop among the staff who are terrified of hub gears).
Yeah, they are a bit scary to get into before you do one.
Jack Mitchell this is exactly the problem I had, but I was actually missing the washer(s). It's an odd inner ID and I never did find a replacement.
I just stumbled back across this video, I hope you found your washer, if you didn't, then look for a sturmey archer parts supplier, the washers from a rear hub generally seem to be used and they still make them in various thicknesses. They will be a bit of a slack fit on the axle but it doesn't matter.
Another thing to add, the hub in your video is definitely a GH6 (second type in fact). The first Dynohub was the 1936-38 GH12, followed by the 1938-41 GH8, followed after the war by the GH6. All post-war front Dynohubs are GH6 hubs, and all rear dynohubs are 6V and use the same magnet and armature as a GH6.
Jack that's a lovely story of how you have mastered hub motors. RJ thank you again for sharing your knowledge
You explain everything so well. If I have those issues to fix, your site will be my go-to-place. I had no idea that those have been around that long. I was only a couple years old when that product came out. Thanks for sharing.
They originally came out in 1936.
That makes me feel younger.
That was just satisfying to watch. Way to give it new life and getting it working again.
There is something so satisfying to watch you repair and clean up an old and still wonderful technology, and put it back into service. This was an awesome video as are your other videos. Thanks again for taking the time to show and share all these videos.
Thanks for your video. i am restoring a triumph cycle that is from the 1960s and has the same dynamo. Your video helped me work out how to take it apart. Thanks
Hopefully you can put it back together too! Don't remove the magnet!
The Real OG of Vintage DIY!!!!!!!!!!
Rj The Bike Guy I found the article and you are correct. Do not pull out the magnet from coil.
I Juan Gonzalez I did this with my dad in Cuba I love to work with bikesI I been following you for ages mouth and every time I look at your videos is like been with my dad he was a master mechanic like you he hues”to work with ruchend and German bike and they had a lot of different parts but the same mechanics
Thanks for watching. You might like this video on bikes in Havana. It's very cool! th-cam.com/video/IAnAk7Gibxg/w-d-xo.html
I had noticed this vid while wandering through all of your great "how to" vids and thought: "I'll never need to know something arcane as shown in that DynoHub servicing vid.". Lo and behold, my buddy calls me about 2 weeks ago and tells me about this Chicago Schwinn he just bought with a funny looking front hub. Turns out the bike is a late 1972 men's Collegiate Tourist model (in Kool Lemon paint, yet) that someone has converted over to a 3 speed with a front DynoHub !!! They took a set of Rigida wheels with the Dynohub already installed from some other bike and replaced the Schwinn wheels entirely. So now my buddy has decided to rersurrect this poor old Schwinn and the front wheel needs to come apart to clean and lube the bearings. Your vid is of immense help in this regard. Many thanks and wish me/him luck.
Thank you i tried to do that today and got stuck i knew you covered it in your videos so i searched and learned how its done i will finish it tomorrow thanks for all your help i would be lost without your videos.
I'd love to see the rest of the bike!
One of these days I will repaint it. But I can't get the decals for it.
th-cam.com/video/xDOT4IhkeIA/w-d-xo.html
Lovely stuff, really useful and thanks for posting. 1 step closer to putting a 1969 Royal Enfield Revelation/Vindec Vogue back on the road. After the Dunohub, the 3-spd rear 🙂
Very helpful. Thank you from the UK.
I always use an old spoke to line up the holes when installing the 4 fixing screws
Hi. I love these hubs, and this video is great. I’ve had a lot of fun with them so I hope you don’t mind the comments.
They were rated at 6v ac and about 2 watts. You give a thing volts and its takes current. I'm sure I remember seeing them quoted them as being good now for 1.8w considering their age.It's all down to rotational speeds, off load and on load current and things called hysteresis loops I didn't pay attention to in college 40 years ago.
We've got 110v out one by upending two bikes, driving a 16" x 2 front dyno wheel from a rear 700c wheel, tyre to tyre, and putting the dyno output the wrong way i.e. into the output of a 240v UK mains to 24v transformer and pedalling like mad. It was fun, but the 110v was gutless and wouldn't power anything we tried. It was the late 80's and stuff used more current back then. There were no LED's outside of hifi displays.
Pre WW2 there were 8v versions of the Dynohub.
The brass magnet bolts and nuts were almost certainly BA thread, possibly 2BA but as many people won't have this, then using the closest fitting hex socket, and knowing it is 5mm, is just what we need to know.
The Sturmey cone spanner IS thinner than any other cone spanner in existence. It's basically 16mm wide, but thinner, and therefore a known pain.
The axle is 3/8" and so are the cones. I've used this fact in desperation in the past. This is your standard rear wheel cone set up so you could use rear cones if a) you can refit the dust seal over the shank, and b) you get the height from bearing surface to the end of the cone locknut as close to the original as possible. This is good for the non dyno side. You have to use the dyno side cone and all its washers so I'm not sure if you can do the same here.
As noted in the comments the windings mustn't rotate. The angle of the contacts must be good for routing the lighting cable. The various flats on the cone shank and in the washers are to allow the windings to be angled correctly. This feature is more important in rear Dynohubs where the dropouts won’t allow you to rotate the axle and you have to rotate the windings and not the cone, which is of course fixed in place in a front hub but is the bearing adjustment in the rear Dynohubs. The system of slotted washers was latterly updated with a far easier cap and cone lock nut system front and rear which is quite interchangeable while keeping the original cone.
Ripping the wires to the light is bad enough. But the stator is wide and the winding side of the contacts are tough so usually only the lighting cable rips. However I had a SON windings do this and rip the wires from the inside the armature cage which is 100 times worse and the magnet many times more powerful (strictly this is the stator as it shouldn’t move and should be permanently secured to the axle but it did and wasn’t). There is less room to route the windings to the connectors outside of the hub so they take them through the axle. SON are not cheap and I was forced to take up gynaecology with a Dremmel and a soldering iron.
The flats in the axle ought to allow it to fit into Raleigh's keyway front fork ends. This applies to names Raleigh owned, like Hercules, Trumph, etc. as it was all from the same Nottingham factory.
Watching your videos make we want to find some old SA stuff to just tinker with. Thanks.
Same here! I have downloaded a bunch of SA manuals and catalogs, etc.
www.sturmey-archer.com/
It shouldn't be too too difficult to find some old bikes with SA stuff on it for not much$$. If one is lucky and persevere...
Love watching overhauls from you , you explain it so well thanks RJ
Great vid thanks for the help!
Beware the tiny screws that hold the dynamo part together dont take much torque. I snapped one using a screwdriver.
Your awesome always love your help,!
thanks for this video i`m doing an overhall and just managed to get new bearings...awesome video...
Useful overhaul tips, thanks. Next will be how to convert old filament lights into LED's with standlights! ;-)
Most definitely found that interesting, and wow is that hub in nice shape.
Excellent video. I was wondering how those Dynohubs could be serviced. Thanks.
Thank you for this video, and thank you again for the others. I am getting a real education watching these. :-)
Useful and helpful video, thanks. The problem with my dynohub is that the magnet and the keeper are so badly corroded with rust they only just turn against each-other. I am very tempted to pull them apart (and so ruin the magnet) so I can clean some of the rust off. If I don't do this (and just replace the bearings) I won't really have a serviceable wheel as it doesn't turn without scraping.
Nice work RJ! This is some good motivation to fix my own bike.
I have a sturmey archer 1971 Hercules not sure which model it is exactly because there are a lot of variants from what I know.
But it had a lot of rust build up on the rims which I cleaned, but the front wheel keeps rubbing somewhere along the fender which I have to fix.
Very informative video on a very cool ol design. Thx!
Great video! I have a 1950s DynoHub as well on an old Humber Sport bicycle. Curious what size cage bearings you used for the axle? Any help is greatly appreciate it!
I stripped down one of these just a few weeks ago, It seems you beat me to it by uploading your video, I couldn't find one here so was going to strip it down again and film it but it's currently getting the wheel trued in the shop. I have 2 dynohubs, a front wheel one and a 3 speed rear wheel dynohub, both from the 1950s and working well.
Great and super helpful video!!!! I wonder if cage bearings that fit the old Raleighs are still available....
Another great video RJ. I love seeing this old technology restored. I'm sure this will last another 60+ years. Request: could you please do a video on installing a modern dynamo hub into a modern mountain bike wheel with disk brakes. This should include removing and reinstalling spokes.
I don't even know if they make a dynamo hub made for disc brakes. If they do, that would pretty much just be wheel building.
www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B004H1UA9Y/ref=nosim/youtube25-20
I can see you've done this before :P
I had no idea that Sturmey Archer stuff was available in the USA! It's nice to see someone working on cool old stuff like this and keeping it going. Kind of makes me not want to sell my Raleigh Esquire and Hercules folding bikes now!
Subbed, greetings from the UK!
Interesting and educational, as always. I'm sort of a Sturmey fan so I really appreciate Your videos, Bike guy. Keep up the good work!!:-)
Cool vid, love sturmey archer front & rear stuff. Worst part was 4 screws? Oil fitting top it off.
Been a while. I think the hardest part was spinning the wheel and trying to get a voltage reading.
what a good mécanic !!!!
Where can these be bought today. had one on a push bike 40 years ago too. Want to use as a recharger assist on an E- Bike.
Interesting!...thanks for showing us.
Hey RJ, if you ever get your hands on a modern-era SA dynohub, like an X-FDD or XL-FDD, I’d love to see a teardown of it.
Maybe one of these days. If I get one.
Great work.
hey man, could you do a video about roller brakes?
thanks!
Love all your videos! Do you have a video of how you make your videos? It's amazing you can make them with such detail and clarity. Thumbs up !!
Thanks. No I don't. I just use a good camera and tripod set up, and a good editor.
And good lighting.
I imagine it must be difficult to work on the bikes when the camera and lighting are in the way. That is why I was curious to see how you do it. Great work. Thanks !!
That's really cool
Excellent vid thanks.
I didnt know the hub came apart without separating the alnico magnet from the coils, I can take mine apart and clean it up now.
Also I have a rear 3 speed sturmey hub which has a dynamo, is this the same deal as the Gh6?
I use brake parts cleaner to clean stuff like this, it works really well, auto parts stores sell it.
Can you put a video showing how to wire the actual light please
Nice work, well done
Good job . 👍
Use an ice pick to line-up those holes for the magnets when you re-assemble the next one.
I see you keep up with your commenters and appreciate advice from an old mechanic.
I love to restore old bikes that I find cheap at pawn shops, especially old Schwinns. I have a '79 or older 27" LeTour in perfect running condition, not stock though.
My latest project is a '73 Breeze I just rebuilt the Sturmey/Archer 3sp hub on. It has those old deep English rims on it and I wonder what you think about me putting one of those magnetos on it, get her all rigged up for night riding. A modern battery and rectifier bridge for it should be quite demure, almost unnoticeable, eh?
Notice my use of the word demure. We do think of our bikes as female, correct? All my bikes are classy ladies.
Now if only I can find a '65 Sting Ray in green metal-flake, bananna seat and sissy bar intact: My first bike.
Fantástico 👏👏👏👏👏👏 muito legal 👍
I was wondering if it's possible to buy those tiny bolts online if so I really need them.
A friend of mine has a problem with his hub making a lot of noise .Hes assured me he hasnt used copper grease in the bearings which wouldnt be good enough .Any ideas why it would make noise please?
Noises can be anything, coming from anywhere. th-cam.com/video/TuIPmqru_Rw/w-d-xo.html
Thanks Diarmuid and RJ. I swapped in a magnet set (with its cover) from another Dynohub. That changed the squeak to a quieter rubbing sound that was still too annoying to ignore. Then, I oiled the gap between the stationary part of the magnet and the spinning part. Just two drops. That did it. It's pretty quiet now. …I still have two more Dynohubs that are fairly far down the fix-it queue.
Awesome RJ! As a kid I remember having a dyno that worked by pushing against the tire, you know those?
Those are still available and relatively easy to get via eBay, Amazon, Banggood, etc. In fact I saw one model for sale today. Didn't bookmark that, though.
last time i had a wheel like this it where 40 years old. so now maybe 41 years
+rjthebikeguy was surprised when u said the bolts were metric,being a 50's bike would have thought they would be imperial,or has previous owner upgraded it?,nice job rj looks/runs just like new now :)
I tried SAE wrenches, but they didn't fit. I am pretty sure it was never converted.
@ Probably BA (British Association) as a lot of this era LUCAS vehicle electrics equipment used these threads and some other AF/Whitworth / Metric spanner sizes will fit (0 - 16 BA thread size).
I think you should have used a bit more grease but other than that great job great vidio!
For every person who says I should have used more grease, there is someone who says I used too much.
@@RJTheBikeGuy I'm sure ! Cool wheel! I was up last night researching them! They seem a bit difficult to get but me coarse they have new versions but I'm the kind of person that likes older stuff verse new crap! I have two of the clans on generators with head lights! One set working and the other doesn't! I thought about putting an L E D bulb in the non working headlight housing since I really don't think I will ever be able to repair the one generator!
While pulling my dynamo apart to clean and verify why it did not spin freely, I found it was stuck with rust, the magnet was stuck to the hub and the inner coil came off. Is it over for my dynamo? How do I clean it? And where can I buy new bearings for a Dynahub on a 1971 Raleigh Superbe?
No lubing of the dynamo part before putting it back?
Firstly nice job, I have the same bike here in Egypt, Please, I would like to know, what kind of screwdriver is this for you, and what is its brand, because I want to buy one
Craftsman.
@@RJTheBikeGuy thanks
Hi RJ, great video, which modern light assemblies would you recommend to pair with that vintage Sturmey front hub? Can modern bulbs with better performance be used with these older dynohubs, is the voltage they produce sufficient etc? Thanks for your thoughts...
Hi Kevin,
I've researched this item once - it seems you have to construct AC-DC converter to be able to utilize new high power LEDs for this. Could be a nice DIY project. Here's a page with pretty detailed instructions and schemas pilom.com/BicycleElectronics/DynamoCircuits.htm
Thanks for that link Ivan, that's really helpful of you, I've got a 70's Raleigh Shopper bike with a similar rear Sturmey dynohub and wondered if I could replace the old lamps with modern dyno powered lighting. Will look into the converters you mention, cheers.
Great video but did you notice how pitted one of the cone races was? That thing will ruin the new bearings!
Did you clean out the inside of the dynamo, or just not mess with it at all?
Awesome video do you recommend this type of hub on a Touring bike? I was thinking they might be safer than always having to charge up batteries and such.
This thing is heavy and overkill. This was from they days of incandescent lights. Modern LED lights use a tiny fraction of the power. Carry extra batteries or a portable charger. Maybe a small solar charger.
@@RJTheBikeGuy thanks, I am going to do some small touring. So basically a portable charger in case the phone or lights were to need recharge in an emergency? I mostly gonna try hotel to hotel, or a circle tour back to same point. Researching what place would be good to try that reasonably warm now as I am in southeast Wisconsin and don't like flying..?? . I guess my touring bike is good to go. I got good racks, tires, components, on an almost NOS Bianchi Volpe frame..!!
PS are the newer dynamo hubs lighter, better?
@@recyclespinning9839 Find some touring groups and get their recommendations. I don't think this is a great option.
Hi RJ, all your vids are great. I am looking for a vid which shows overhauling the rear dynohub with 3 speed SA. Have you done one before or can you do one please? Mine is slipping on 2 gear & I want to overhaul it to know what's wrong & fix it. Thanks , I watched most of ur vids & really appreciate how you explain them so clearly with focus on the tricky points . Kr Luckyram from Bristol Uk
I have done different rear SA 3 speed hubs. Not a rear dynohub though.
The magnet part rotates, it was this part that was giving me trouble as I think some cr*p had got stuck down there and it was filled with rust. I did remove it, have I screwed it? The hub is not in a wheel right now to test plus I don't have a multimeter. I have put it back together and it seems to move freely.
Every thing I have read is don't remove it unless you have a special tool to do it in a certain way. I am guessing it may not work properly.
@@RJTheBikeGuy I'll stick it in a vice and see if I can find a bulb to test it with. You are a legend BTW, many thanks.
I'm missing those two big black washers on the dynamo side. Result: the centre part doesn't remain fixed to the axle. No juice :(
I thought these hub generator were a recent development ( from the last decade or so) Guess I was wrong :)
Hi RJ,
Do you need a ground wire to connect from the rear light to the seat post screw?
Probably varies.
@@RJTheBikeGuy Thank you!
will it work as a motor if i energise it?
im surprised Sturmeys are that tough. 60 years old? i have a Sturmey Archer internal hub 5-speed. hope it last that long.
Here is the rear hub: th-cam.com/video/oHHaajDcL_g/w-d-xo.html
do you have any vid on how to tune the gears on these internal hubs?
Like this? th-cam.com/video/KvR0S6lHJ4Q/w-d-xo.html
awesome. thanks!
Jogie Glen Mait
Those loose bearings can make steel 00 buckshot.
Boss !! Can you reveal us this DYNAMO Dynahub Bearing Size or Trade name ??
Shrug. You have to match them side by side. Go to bike shop.
Hi does the rear come off the same ?
I have not doen the rear, so I can't say.
That SA unit was made the year I was born, Yikes! BTW, did you clean and re-lube the magnet unit with anything or just leave it as it was?
I just left it as it was.
Crazy question, but are those Wentworth threads?
I assume you mean Whitworth threads. And I don't know.
Yes, they are. 26 threads per inch on pretty much every threaded part on the bike. I was hoping you'd mention to not overtighten and strip the thin lock nuts. Since they're so thin, there's not a lot of threads so just snug is fine, maybe 1/8 turn past finger tight. A bit of trivia: The US tool companies used to sell a 19/32 wrench that fit those axle, seat and handlebar nuts, I scored one at a garage sale once.
Anyone changed the bulbs to led and does it work? Thanks
You would need some extra circuitry as the dyno puts out AC, not DC.
How did you clean the dynamo part of it?
I didn't do anything to clean the inside of the dynamo part.
I see. Probably better to leave that part alone.
I wish they still made stuff like this. Nobody likes buying batteries.
at 0:56 it seems that joint between dropout and fork is cracked. Am I right?
No.
Not even sure what you are seeing. I am guessing it's a scratch in the rattle can paint job that a previous owner did.
What size are those bearings !?
I don't remember.
@@RJTheBikeGuy just saw another video of yours converting from caged bearing to normal.. would that work on these !? The cage is a bit different.
Hey man love your videos but i have question not related to the topic.Actually i bought a pair of wellgo pedals on ebay and turns out when it came ,the axle was not moving freely. I'm tried flooding the axle with some ab 40 (subsidiary of wd 40) ,to some extent it worked but when i searched online i discovered that there should be a nut so that the axle can be pulled outwards which was suspiciously missing . Is this normal and if it is can you make a video about how to remove such axles and overhaul them or if it is not possible ,apart how flooding it with wd 40 what can be done???Thanks in advance
I have multiple videos about overhauling pedals. Maybe one of those will help. Some pedals can't be overhauled though because they don't have a removable cap.
what is the axle nut size? part number? i have a 1967 dynohub with only 1 nut. i ordered HMN118 and it didnt fit. would you happpen to know the answer
Dunno. Measure the size and threading on it. Or take it to a hardware store. Maybe 3/8"? Maybe 5/16"? Maybe 24 or 26tpi.
RJ The Bike Guy thanks. tried hardware store and no luck.
I addressed this in a post above. They're Whitworthh, 26 TPI. Gonna have to scrounge one off an old English bike.
it hurt me a Lil that you had to grind that nice cone wrench...
I tried every cone wrench I had. And I have a bunch. They were all too thick.
May I know what size is the bearings?
Idk offhand. Do I say in the video? If not, measure them. I don't remember.
Looks the wrong way round. The axle with fixed cone goes on the right side, so any tendency for the cone to turn in use is stopped by the axle shoulder. Putting the adjustable cone on the right side tends to tighten the bearing and bind the wheel in use with dyno or plain hub.
I didn't design it.
so essentially this hub could be converted to a motor?
Not sure if it could be turned to a motor.
Not easily. RJ mentioned the hub generates AC, so it could be used as an AC motor, but you'd want a DC one so you could power it with batteries/lithium cells directly.
Why you no use loose bearings instead?
For the most part, I stick with what was in there originally. But you can install loose bearings if you want.
+RJ The Bike Guy Thanks RJ. I hope when you are all famous and have a million subscribers that you still answer my stupid questions.
I try to read all the comments on my channel and answer questions.
great video, I could use one of them on my cummuiting bike
Don’t you have a correct size ring spanner
Are u sure its AC?
Yes.
www.sheldonbrown.com/dynohubs.html
Would it charge an iPhone 🤔
Drill Press Vice ++++++++++++++
how the f++know did you clean that old hub up to look like new.
Dregreaser and a scrub brush. Though on the center part, there was a light rust, so I used a little bit of orange hand cleaner with pumice and a scrub brush in there.
do u sell parts for bike
Sorry, no.
kool
I'm watching to much my wife is upset with me lol
hello guys anyone can tell me what is the thread in mm of the axis sow i can buy a split die? i will apriciate your answer
Sorry, I don't know what thread it is. I am guessing 24 threads per inch. But that is a guess. Use a thread gauge on yours.
It's not a metric thread! My old dad would've known as he worked at The Raleigh factory in Nottingham for many years. Its likely to be BSC, British Standard Cycle thread, look on Wikipedia for details.
@@nicam49 many thanks , for your answer !!!
Heeeere and therrrrrrre
I see you have a 15 mm
cones must be replaced ... in such a terrible state
You must be living on the bread line to be still using this they went out with the Ark
Dude, I am restoring a 1954 Indian bicycle!
Jimmy Walker
And yet you can buy modern dynamo hubs which work on the exact same principle...