If you want to go DEEP down the dynamo rabbit hole, jump on my website. You'll find a crazy amount of info on dynamo hubs, lights, USB chargers, wiring, batteries and more: www.cyclingabout.com/category/equipment/bike-equipment/dynamo/
@@Cyclingabout I run a Rohloff on both of my bikes. I love the sensation of direct drive with this hub. And I got them cheap from German 2nd hand market. On one bike I have a SON dynamo and the cheapest Shimano dynamo on the other. Cant complain on either one of them, except that the SON has bare metal connectors which oxidized and I had to replace the lower part of the wiring (so a win for the Shimano here).
@@Cyclingabout yeah, I accidentally squeezed the wire ends when taking out the front wheel, only to find out the light system is not working any more when I reinstalled the wheel. I unwrapped the wires (cut the housing) and the wires were green on the inside. I had some pieces of copper wire laying arround and just replaced this part of wire without soldering and put some heat shrink tubing over it. It works like a charm now. But this would be hard to fix on an expedition without the wire.
Pure passion, yep, but man (or even cyclist) does not live by passion alone! A bit of donor money helps fuel the passion. His reviews are the embodiment of scientific method. In equipment alone they must cost a bit.
Very interesting comparison. Previous to this, the two data points I was going off of (and why I have a dynohub) were: 1: my SON dynohub, when off, has less resistance than all but the very best racing hubs. We measured this by: flip the bikes over, give the wheels an equal-force spin, and then see how long until the wheel stops spinning, the bearings and construction are so much better in the SON hub than in most non-dynamo front hubs that it will spin longer, despite the added magnetic resistance. It just goes and goes and goes. And that certainly matches my on-bike perceptions: when the hub is off, I don’t feel a thing, and I can coast a long time if I’m in a good tuck. 2: I definitely notice the dynohub kick in. I have automatic lights, so it sometimes turns on in the middle of a ride, like when I go under a bridge. That said, the resistance with the lights on is still /way/ less then the semi-knobby tires I use in winter, and the difference between dynohub on and dynohub off is also much less noticeable than the difference between tires at 60 psi and same tires at 80 psi. Mostly, I notice the subtle vibrational hum coming up through the handlebars, not any additional resistance.
Idk how I have missed this channel. Great video and certainly gives me food for thought. I am just thinking of using it to charge my battery banks. Seems more dependable than using my solar wing and hoping for good weather. Thanks for the well researched info. Ride safe!
In my city, we have a bike share system and all of the bikes there use Hub Dynamos to power the integrated lights, I don't really have an issue using them and having the lights is a great safety feature
@@Boss_Tanaka Completely neglectable if you don't have your lights turned off. More importantly: When you are actually riding in the dark, the old side friction Dynamo REALLY slows you down. If you regularry ride in the dark, they are to crappy to use.
@@sagichdirdochnicht4653 And from my childhood memories it'll also let you down at times when the tyres get wet, but I must admit that they were maybe not always perfectly aligned or in the best state of maintenance. That poor efficiency and then also powering an incandescent bulb is something I really don't miss these days.
Very nice video. One minor point. At the end of the video you say the Cyo headlight, introduced about 12 or 13 years ago is half the brightness of the IQ-X, which is true. However the Cyo Premium, which was introduced 7 or 8 years ago is 80 lux, vs 100 lux for the IQ-X. So anyone buying a current Cyo headlight is most likely buying a Cyo Premium, which is almost as bright as the IQ-X. The difference is enough to be noticeable if you're riding side by side and have the lights aimed exactly the same, vertically. But even a small difference in aiming the light will have a more significant difference in the beam's brightness on the road. That being said, if you're riding in traffic at night in the rain, you never have enough light! Peter J White Peter White Cycles LLC
Tbh I don't like it that Busch & Müller only provides the brightness in Lux because it's Lumen per square meter, but usually only measured on a single spot and they can "cheat" by making a rather small but very bright spot while I would prefer a larger not so superbright but large spot (luckily the IQs provide that).
With a little tiny bit of drag you get to see more on the rides 😉 I love my SON with the Edelux and the B&M E-Werk on my Fatbike. And I have to wait for my buddy all the time anyway, so that drag does not bother me at all!
Really interesting, I'm just getting the parts together to rebuild an old bike from my shed to use as a commuter and now think that a dynamo hub and lights will be the ideal answer for me.
Thanks for more great content, Alee! I've always been curious about just how much of a difference dynamos make. It's surprising how many ultra racers use them given that overnight time penalty you mentioned! Guess that's another reason to sleep at night 🤣
Love my son and my klite. First real test was the Pioneer 400 in September and it worked flawlessly and I easily charged stuff as I rode. Keep needing-out!
Dynamo on a bike make much more sense nowadays with high efficiency LEDs. I recall when using a two 6 V 10 W Sylvania halogen bulbs setup (the bulbs with 30 hours lifetime). While with the LED the dynamo uses 1.5% of the total pedal power, with the halogen illuminator I went up to 10% of pedal power (for the same luminous flux). For time critical runs, we added a 6 V 10 Ah lead-acid battery, which provided 2 hours of light at 20 Watts, or 4 hours at 10 Watts. Thanks for the video...
I've always wondered about the effects of electrical loading on dynamo drag. The ones I've tried have been the flip on your tires type and they make noticeable drag.
Another great review, it’s interesting to see the data... I currently use a Son28, K-Lite set up, so far, supper happy with it. Look forward to further videos from you.
Thanks for sharing this data. If I were riding something like the TCR, I’d be tempted to switch off the dynamo when climbing, and just use some small battery lights, and then switch the dynamo back on at the top of the hill. Interesting.
He did a horrible job explaining that a load placed on the hub varies by accessories. The larger the power draw the higher the 'drag' due to the magnetic field that increases in relation to the load.
Nice video. Your recent article on rim dynamos was interesting too. It would be interesting to see a rim version of this video with comparison to hub. Pedalec should be more efficient. With caveat around mud.
I can tell you from experience going back a while, you can feel a rim dynamo very distinctly. Back in the olden days of crap batteries and bulbs the generator was reliable and ready when you needed it. When you flipped the generator off your bike felt like a rocket.
Hey, great video, much needed info. Based on this video, the findings here I went with the Son 28. The only issue for me will be on Audax rides. I ride a Thorn Mercury which I also use for tours. For shorter Audax I had another wheel build with a normal hub. It was more for weight reasons. It's far easier for my legs to use USB lights, I take another set that are charged. Many riders still run the sun 28 on audax.
My new Son for my V-brake is installed backwards with the power cable on the left side. Is that correct? or Son for V brake caliper can be installed in any direction
Here's something that may be unexpected: B&M's standlight functionality means that there is extra drag. When the light is "off," the standby capacitor is still being charged. It sounds silly, but when I added an independent switch from my dynamo hub to my Cyo IQ Premium, I could feel a relatively much bigger difference between the light being on and off vs. when I used the switch on the light itself, which was almost imperceptible.
That's an interesting observation. As 'anywhere roam' mentioned, I would've suspected that the capacitor would take a very minimal power draw once it was full...
I had some faulty cabling and I was surprised to discover I could feel when the connection was good vs. not. Once I installed the switch I did some testing after charging the standlight for over an hour and it was still very noticeable! I have wondered if it's unique to my specific light or if it's related to all of the B&M standlights. I do have an IQ-X on the way and will be checking it out.
The other problem is they just are not bright enough. My rechargeable headlight puts out 1600 Lumens at the highest setting. But my light has five settings, Low, Medium, high - 1600 Lumens and two different speeds of flashing. Yes, I have to keep it charged, but I also carry two batteries.
Great video! Thank you for your research! I've got a Son hub paired with a Sinewave cycles Beacon light and charger. I've always been curious about the drag. Thank you!
Sturmey-archer used to claim there dynohub added no friction. The vintage stuff Raleigh/SA made was always very understated but a friend told me you could feel the difference. My guess is that a 1.8W used by the lights would require 0.45 more power due to copper losses and nothing much more for magnetising and eddy current losses?
are there hybrid style dyanmoes that charge a battery when going down a hill with excess energy produced and then use that stored energy on the flats or a climb to save on your time lost per hour?
I hadn’t thought about a dynamo setup until now. For me I want to tour around the state creating images and it would be one way to charge my phone or run a light at night. I’m. Not in a hurry so I am not worried about time. Besides they sound like they have less resistance than the old wheel generators.
I have Rohloff/Son 28-Edelux front and rear set ups on my touring bikes. I'm prepared to throw away some efficiency in favour of reliability, safety and good light on tap. On a long ride I count kilograms, not grams when kitting out anyhow. So why fuss about a few percentage points of drag?
I had once a dynamo hub on my trekking bike used for commuting. However, the usually used rear and front lights were not really reliable, the cables and connections corroded easily, and the lights were not really water proof. Now I use a 36 V light (powered by the E Bike battery) and a AA battery powered one on my E bike, and AA battery powered ones on my other non electric bikes. Of course you have to change batteries from time to time (I use rechargeable NiMh ones), but they are now more reliable than the old one. I use the bikes for sport and commuting, but not for crossing whole countries ;-)
I know, my Shimano hub produces more power at typical riding speeds while touring than any other hub. And I simply do not notice the extra drag with lights on/off, even while charging with lights on. All this analysis, and saying small percentage points matter - when in the real world they do not.
I wonder if you could do some kind of set up where the dynamo kicks in on max power when going downhill, or braking, to blast-charge a Li battery or capacitor of some sort - that way it won’t slow you down at all as it will be effectively mopping up power you’re otherwise wasting in braking? A bit complex I know but a proper project for us bike-geeks!
Great video, thanks a lot! I do think though that you overestimate the w/kg output of the average bikepacker. This number will vary massively across cyclists of course, but I do think that 2 w/kg average for bikepacking is quite a big overestimation. To comfortably pedal that for 5+ hours, the cyclists threshold should be 3.5 - 4 w/kg, which is higher than that of most bikepackers (pointy end of ultradistance racers excluded) - closer to the range of competitive cyclists. I'd be with you in the uphill case - 2w/kg are produced when going uphill a 5% slope. But on the flat road, your results could be a bit misleading. That being said, your content is fantastic and I really appreciate the effort in sharing your knowledge! Cheers from Germany.
Alex, I am curious how you use this information to inform charging strategies while riding. For example, do you turn off your charger when climbing or facing a headwind and turn it on when going downhill or on flats?
I don't have a charging strategy, I just plug things in when they're running low on power. I just like tinkering with the numbers to entertain my intellectual curiosity! 😅
@cyclingabout have you ever found a way to make the Cinq5 plus more robust? My new unit didn’t last a week before one of the small wires connecting the cap bust. More glue perhaps?
How about a dynamo hub with a switch+ powerbank? Turn the charger off for uphills/ flats and enable on downhills, where you have to brake either way, so you don't lose any time?
I really want to make this dynamo hub set up on my mountain bike, however, my front wheel use disc brake rotor. Is it possible to set up dynamo hub in my disc brake wheel? Hoping for your answer. Ride safe!
Hi Alee thanks for this informationful video. I am using surly troll with one wheelset(28x1.40) deore xt t8000 and I am going to build another wheelset(26x2.50) with son 28 and rohloff 36 disc(waiting for and can chance according to your kindernay video). I dont use dynamo light because I dont ride nights. I will choose b+m e-werk for one week tours. Do you think e werk and son 28 couple is also effective for one week tours? thanx again.
I wouldn't recommend the e-werk. It doesn't make good power until you hit about 18KPH. Dynamo chargers have come a LONG way since that product was developed, so you can do so much better. I've got the options listed here: www.cyclingabout.com/list-of-hub-dynamo-power-supplies-for-usb-devices/
@@Cyclingabout Thanks for answer Alee . I reviewed this page but couldnt understand the ranking on graphs. But I think best one is plug5 plus and best price performance is Forumslader V5. I must chose one of theese according to my budget. If I understand enough.
I have a Surly Troll with Rohloff 26" and 700c wheels. The 26" wheels I have a Son 28 hub. I am disappointed with it as most of the time my Anker power banks are more than sufficient to power my devices on tour. One 26,000mA bank lasts me about 4-5 days charging Garmin Edge 1000, Smart phone, GoPro batteries, Fenix watch after which I usually stay somewhere with mains power or where ever I find a mains power point I charge. I got the Son 28 front hub thinking all my power troubles would be over. No. The output does not keep up with my devices power needs. For the cost of the hub, new rim and wheel build plus the Edelux 2 front light and Son rear, I don't think the expense is worth it if you are not going to be without power for more than 4-5 days or can't get to mains power to re-charge a power bank within this time. Maybe for long tours to desolate sparsely populated off grid places it's worth considering, but in my experience not. I have very bright Exposure lights which most of the time I don't use as I tend not to ride at night on tour. Commuting where you return home every day is different. Even then I charge my front lights probably once a week more frequently in deepest winter. On low mode which is still flippin' bright they give around 8 hours of light and 16 hours with the spare battery, 8 hours on full power which is BRIGHT!!! If I had to make the decision again I would not go for a dynamo hub, well not a SON 28, simply on the basis of the high cost. I think power banks and solar panels are a better option. Of course you need the sun or a bight day to charge from solar panels but my Anker ones are pretty good. The Son dynamo hubs are beautifully made, but the total cost of them plus lighting and plug is prohibitive for the amount of power they produce. In my experience the SON 28 hub can only power the dynamo lights or a single device such as my smart phone just about whereas the Anker power bank will charge my smartphone no problem many times. Just don't expect too much from the dynamo hub. Other Shimano hubs with higher outputs might be better but then the penalty may be they are significantly heavier and more drag. I think a dynamo hub is one means of charging to be used in combination with other means such as solar and power banks. If you want one just so you have lights on constantly then go for it otherwise you need to think long and hard whether the expense is worth it.
@@alexmorgan3435 Thank you so much Alex. The budget of my dnamo hub and charger will be 450Euros aproximetly. I think as you told me I dont need it too much. You have also rohloff system how is your experience about rohloff I was planning with ryde andra 30rims and for front hub son 28 and for rear hub rohloff or kindernay 14. Rohloff ts db oem 2 budget will be 1200 euros. Do you think for maximum 6 days travel do I need it? Thanks
It seems to me that a battery would help. Why not a regenerative system that charges the battery on downhills and flats, and discharges the battery on the climbs in order to reduce resistance?
I wonder how much of drag is produced by the bearing itself and how much it could be affected by poor bearing adjustment from the factory. I found that a lot of shimano hubs were set to a too high bearing load. With quick release hubs and especially with hollow aluminium axles you allways want some play in the bearing setup, which then will be erased by the load of the quick release skewer, when build into the frame.
If you look at the hub drag graph without anything connected, the data suggests only 0.5 watts between best and worst-performing hubs. So the bearing variation is likely 5-10% of the total resistance with a light or charger connected.
Interesting results. Thanks. My back of the envelop analysis would go like this. A 2.4A USB port uses 12W of power and you'd add ~5W for the inefficiency of the dynamo to get a 5-17W reduction in power. Your light cyclist produces 120W and will have 103-115W remain to move the bike. That is 86-96% of the power available without the dynamo. Your heavy cyclist produces 180W and will have 163-175W remain to move the bike. That is 91-97% of the power available without the dynamo. How much of the power loss translates to speed loss is, as you say, depending on many factors. The results that you saw is within the expected theoretical values above. For lights, high efficient LED lights are around 85-100 lumen per W. How much power that you lose will depend on how bright the lights are. Better quality dynamo would reduce the 5W power loss but would not do any thing for the loss from the USB or light.
Would it make sense to have a hybrid dynamo/battery system and charge the battery in the downhills? How about engaging the dynamo automatically when braking? The descent of a big mountain pass is easy to spot and the dynamo can be turned on manually, but what about automatic detection of downhills? It could be optimized so that you could get the lights at night but the drag is minimized.
Can you only harness the energy generated *during* the ride? I would much rather the store energy generated into a battery and then have that charge my stuff.
Hi, I have dynamo lights: Supernova E3 Pure 3 and Supernova E3 Tail Light 2 + powerbug usb charger. I am going to buy a son 28 hub. Unfortunatelly Supernova E3 Pure 3 has no on/off switch. Could you advice me how to connect all that so I could turn all that off, turn on only lights, turn on only usb charger. Maybe some kind of switch box or something?
Great posting. But i wonder whether you heard of a different dynamo based on the old technology: It is called "VELOGICAL". bASED IN THE OLD SYSTEM (WHEEL drag). They are made by a german co. in Cologne. worth checking into, specially if you don't need a different hub. The cost is about 150 uros Thank you for detailed info and my admiration for what you do
Question, is the Son dynamo hub as good, strength-wise, as the same rim, spoke set, tire, brake rotor, but with an Industry 9 front hub? Meaning, rocks, gravel, etc pose no issue for it? Are the bearings serviced similarly?
Yes, the SON is as good as it gets. It uses deep groove SKF bearings (629-2RSH) which are top notch. You cannot replace the bearings yourself - they need to be replaced at a Schmidt service centre. (I have SON hubs that have cross multiple continents and still spin like new - I've never had to do a bearing replacement on a SON hub)
@@Cyclingabout thanks a bunch! I will try it out. I did not actually want one, but my bike shop sort of snuck it in. I could have had them remove it but since they are 3 hrs away i did not want to leave it overnight after having waited for the bike to arrive over 6 months. I don't care for the bulbous look. Besides it did not come with a rear light. As long as it takes a pounding I am OK with it for now. I will load this bike up big time. I would have bought a Tubus rack but the light was not cheap. I had an old Night Sun used by police however the NiCads needed replacing which would have set me back a few quid anyway.
Thank you for the information. I have subscribed! Not concerned with time loss as much as reliable source for minimal devices NEXT year on the GDMBR NOBO, not racing. Is there a video where you specifically talk about your personal setup? Thanks!
Since many years I use the SON for travels and rides, can not feel the drag. I was even considering equipping my travel trailer with 2 dynamo wheels to charge a bigger power-bank (but it's only at the idea stage for now)
There are dynamos and accessories to charge your devices/phone through USB. Nice! I have not seen that before, I somewhat feel old just learning about this now.
What I really need is usable USB be power at back country single track speeds (10 kmph or less). I tend not to hit enough of faster trail to keep up w/ my device needs on trails like the AZT or the Colorado Trail.
How about using the dynamo hub during the day only to charge a battery light. You could utilise descents as much as possible so you don't perceive any additional effort. Then at night you are not loading the dynamo hub. The other option is a solar panel on the rear rack or on the handlebar bag maybe. How much power would that generate compared to a dynamo hub? To almost answer my own question, if a person puts out 120-180W then you cannot get anymore than that from the dynamo hub but you can get that power whenever necessary.
Charging batteries on downhills is an excellent idea in theory, but unfortunately, downhills are rarely long enough to get a decent charge. I wrote this on another comment asking the same question: "It depends how long the descents are, how powerful a charger is and how bright/efficient your lights are. Let's say you need to fill a 4800mAh light battery to run it at 800 lumens for three hours. Using a powerful Forumslader USB charger, you would need to descend at 30KPH for four hours throughout the day to fill the battery up (including light battery storage losses)." Solar panels are a better option. Bigger panels will create ample power for a couple hours of night riding.
Not that nerdy at all, in my opinion - I found exactly what I was looking for. As I'm only occasionally biking in the city, mostly during daylight, I will use a battery light. I do understand though that a dynamo is attractive for people who want to use for more than just the light and regularly. What surprised me a little was that the SP dynamo is so much worse than a SON by the way.
Ok I'm going to need some science on this. Whether connected or unconnected, the dynamo doesn't physically change. I always figured the drag would always be the same and the energy would just be lost if you didn't connect anything. But apparently when you connect something, the drag increases? So the device somehow changes the electromagnetic field?
That's correct. A powerful USB charger or a bright light will always have more electrical resistance than a less powerful, less bright product.
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I use the very same SON and cinq plug. I'm not too impressed by the power it provides to my Pixel 4 though. And that it turns down output when the lights are on (I'd rather cycle harder). It's not enough to keep the device charged during use. I'm close to replacing it with a more powerful external bank. (Plus solar if I ever find myself truly off the grid.) Would be curious about your thoughts on the best mobile charging setup!
You won't get much charge with the lights on; it's really one or the other. Are you using the Plug III or Plug5Plus?
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@@Cyclingabout The 5 plus, because of the USB C connection. But even with the lights off, it can't keep up. I think a smartphone just draws in a little bit more then the device can provide.
@ You might have a faulty unit, or perhaps the Pixel has some weird stuff going on. You should be getting enough power with the Plug5! A $5 USB LCD Voltmeter can help diagnose whether your Plug5 is making the right amount of power. I'd recommend plugging one in and seeing if you're getting the full 5V/0.5A at 12kph and 5V/0.9A at 20kph.
I find power output at typical riding speeds is much more important than a tiny amount of extra drag. On my bikepacking bike, even with fast tyres, I do not notice the extra drag from my Shimano hub. And the Shimano hub makes the most power at typical riding speeds. Mine has lasted a long time, and I do not need to send a wheel back to Son to get it completely rebuilt when it finally fails. Just buy another hub for cheaper than Son charges for a rebuild. The Shimano hub has dura-ace seals in it. Ridden mtbing through UK mud and puddles. Inc. the recent very wet weather, endless puddles. It just keeps going.
At least you can charge your Pixel 4 ;-) My USB-Werk can't charge my Samsung phone with USB C but I didn't check what actually happens with a scope or voltmeter. It does work with a camera (Micro USB), it did charge the phone I had before (also Micro USB) and I also tried it for a few kilometers with a switched off iPhone 8. Maybe a powerbank between charger and phone will help? But even if that works it's more stuff and more cables but on the other hand I can still charge on bikes without dynamo hubs or when I switch over to lights. I've installed a switch and wiring on my touring bike with positions lights/offcharger.
Nice number crunching. Sadly the chargers are all well outside my budget. Thankfully you can get a half decent dynamo lighting setup for city commuting at reasonable prices.
I see you're using the Plug5 Plus, which is what I'd like to get for myself too. There's been reports of major problems once it starts raining; have you had any such misadventure with it yet? Also, what would be your other charger recommendation instead of the Plug5 when there's no possibility to install it (fork with no hole for instance)?
Yeah, my charger has stopped working 2-3x since I got it. I just take the top cap off and dry it out in the sun and it comes back to life. But apparently, I got one of the first production units, and Cinq told me they have improved the waterproofing since. I'm currently waiting for a new unit, but for some reason you cannot ship batteries out of Germany currently?! I'd probably choose the NC-17 Appcon 3000 or Forumslader V5 if I had a full carbon fork.
@@Cyclingabout Nice to hear something is done regarding the waterproofing. I'm genuinely considering buying a specific fork just so I could use the Plug5. Thank you for your recommendations too, it's really appreciated. Your content never disappoints, thanks for everything.
Quality looking hubs those Son’s,Shimano know a thing or two about dynamo hubs too at almost half the price,think SP do a hub that has changeable axle options from Qr to boost etc 🤔
I saw you riding with the lights turned on during day. I would suspect that resistence is higher with lights turned on and slows you down is that correct?
I'm really thinking of splurging for a SON28 and cinq 5 combo. If I'm providing my own buffer battery, should I expect any performance difference between the Pure and Plus variants?
I use the SON dynamo hub, actually I have three in total. I got my first about fifteen years ago. It has been used extensively and it runs and looks like brand new today. The SON hubs are pricey but I think they are very well worth it.
Their price is also "great" :-( As far as I've seen SON hubs are a bit lighter than Shimano so the weight penalty compared to non-dynamo hubs is reduced. That also reduces time loss uphill a bit.
If you want to go DEEP down the dynamo rabbit hole, jump on my website. You'll find a crazy amount of info on dynamo hubs, lights, USB chargers, wiring, batteries and more: www.cyclingabout.com/category/equipment/bike-equipment/dynamo/
Will do so. Thank you so much for your reply.
So what happens when you put them onto a mid drive electric bike?? Could they be used to charge the battery?
@@MrJturner74 🤦♂ If you only turned it on for downhills when the engine wasn't engaged you could maybe extend your range by 50m or so...
@@MrJturner74 don't electric bikes already have some kind of regen using the same motor-generator that powers the wheels?
@@confusedredditor1660 Only the stupidly expensive ones.
This guy doesnt do videos for the money or fame, in his reviews its just pure passion. Love Your work sir 😎👍💪
I appreciate that! Yep, bikes 'n travel are my two biggest passions. 🥰
@@Cyclingabout I run a Rohloff on both of my bikes. I love the sensation of direct drive with this hub. And I got them cheap from German 2nd hand market. On one bike I have a SON dynamo and the cheapest Shimano dynamo on the other. Cant complain on either one of them, except that the SON has bare metal connectors which oxidized and I had to replace the lower part of the wiring (so a win for the Shimano here).
@@peroperic3692 Interesting, I've never had that happen to any of my SON connectors!
@@Cyclingabout yeah, I accidentally squeezed the wire ends when taking out the front wheel, only to find out the light system is not working any more when I reinstalled the wheel. I unwrapped the wires (cut the housing) and the wires were green on the inside. I had some pieces of copper wire laying arround and just replaced this part of wire without soldering and put some heat shrink tubing over it. It works like a charm now. But this would be hard to fix on an expedition without the wire.
Pure passion, yep, but man (or even cyclist) does not live by passion alone! A bit of donor money helps fuel the passion. His reviews are the embodiment of scientific method. In equipment alone they must cost a bit.
Very interesting comparison. Previous to this, the two data points I was going off of (and why I have a dynohub) were:
1: my SON dynohub, when off, has less resistance than all but the very best racing hubs. We measured this by: flip the bikes over, give the wheels an equal-force spin, and then see how long until the wheel stops spinning, the bearings and construction are so much better in the SON hub than in most non-dynamo front hubs that it will spin longer, despite the added magnetic resistance. It just goes and goes and goes. And that certainly matches my on-bike perceptions: when the hub is off, I don’t feel a thing, and I can coast a long time if I’m in a good tuck.
2: I definitely notice the dynohub kick in. I have automatic lights, so it sometimes turns on in the middle of a ride, like when I go under a bridge. That said, the resistance with the lights on is still /way/ less then the semi-knobby tires I use in winter, and the difference between dynohub on and dynohub off is also much less noticeable than the difference between tires at 60 psi and same tires at 80 psi. Mostly, I notice the subtle vibrational hum coming up through the handlebars, not any additional resistance.
Best comment
Nerd out to your [our] heart’s content! Good real world information from someone who knows-
Your videos are very well made. Your attention to detail indicates to your professionalism.
Idk how I have missed this channel. Great video and certainly gives me food for thought. I am just thinking of using it to charge my battery banks. Seems more dependable than using my solar wing and hoping for good weather. Thanks for the well researched info. Ride safe!
THIS is awesome and very informative. Will be watching your videos a lot.
Awesome, thank you!
Depth of research, crisp and clear description, and pure, unadulterated passion = a treat of a video. Thanks!
In my city, we have a bike share system and all of the bikes there use Hub Dynamos to power the integrated lights, I don't really have an issue using them and having the lights is a great safety feature
Compared to my ancient side-friction dynamo on my old bike, the hub dynamo always wins.
Yes but you could disengage it when not needed so you had no drag at all
@@Boss_Tanaka in my own experience the hub dynamo drag is negligible when it is not powering anything
@@Boss_Tanaka Completely neglectable if you don't have your lights turned off.
More importantly: When you are actually riding in the dark, the old side friction Dynamo REALLY slows you down. If you regularry ride in the dark, they are to crappy to use.
@@sagichdirdochnicht4653 And from my childhood memories it'll also let you down at times when the tyres get wet, but I must admit that they were maybe not always perfectly aligned or in the best state of maintenance. That poor efficiency and then also powering an incandescent bulb is something I really don't miss these days.
@@Boss_Tanaka But bottle dynamos wear out after one winter
Very nice video. One minor point. At the end of the video you say the Cyo headlight, introduced about 12 or 13 years ago is half the brightness of the IQ-X, which is true. However the Cyo Premium, which was introduced 7 or 8 years ago is 80 lux, vs 100 lux for the IQ-X. So anyone buying a current Cyo headlight is most likely buying a Cyo Premium, which is almost as bright as the IQ-X. The difference is enough to be noticeable if you're riding side by side and have the lights aimed exactly the same, vertically. But even a small difference in aiming the light will have a more significant difference in the beam's brightness on the road.
That being said, if you're riding in traffic at night in the rain, you never have enough light!
Peter J White
Peter White Cycles LLC
Tbh I don't like it that Busch & Müller only provides the brightness in Lux because it's Lumen per square meter, but usually only measured on a single spot and they can "cheat" by making a rather small but very bright spot while I would prefer a larger not so superbright but large spot (luckily the IQs provide that).
With a little tiny bit of drag you get to see more on the rides 😉
I love my SON with the Edelux and the B&M E-Werk on my Fatbike.
And I have to wait for my buddy all the time anyway, so that drag does not bother me at all!
Exactly! The extra drag is a BENEFIT not a COST
As always, another superbly researched and presented video. Your work is very much appreciated and I thank you broadening my cycling knowledge!
You are very welcome. I'm happy I can make videos about topics that are seldom covered.
Really interesting, I'm just getting the parts together to rebuild an old bike from my shed to use as a commuter and now think that a dynamo hub and lights will be the ideal answer for me.
Awesome. I opted for the B&M IQ X and Son hub :D Holy moly. this is a detailed report. Thank you!
Thanks for more great content, Alee! I've always been curious about just how much of a difference dynamos make. It's surprising how many ultra racers use them given that overnight time penalty you mentioned! Guess that's another reason to sleep at night 🤣
That’s still less time lost than if when you do sleep it isn’t near a charger though
And still less time than spending a week in the hospital or eternity at the graveyard.
You know the in and outs of cycling sir🙏
Love my son and my klite. First real test was the Pioneer 400 in September and it worked flawlessly and I easily charged stuff as I rode. Keep needing-out!
Good choice!
Dynamo on a bike make much more sense nowadays with high efficiency LEDs. I recall when using a two 6 V 10 W Sylvania halogen bulbs setup (the bulbs with 30 hours lifetime). While with the LED the dynamo uses 1.5% of the total pedal power, with the halogen illuminator I went up to 10% of pedal power (for the same luminous flux). For time critical runs, we added a 6 V 10 Ah lead-acid battery, which provided 2 hours of light at 20 Watts, or 4 hours at 10 Watts.
Thanks for the video...
I've always wondered about the effects of electrical loading on dynamo drag. The ones I've tried have been the flip on your tires type and they make noticeable drag.
Tyre dynamos aren't great. Even the best possible ones are making 10+ watts of resistance at 15KPH, which is 2-3x more drag than the best dynamo hubs.
Yaaaay, geeky numbers make the best videos! Thanks!
Very interesting -- thanks for doing the hard work of crunching the numbers!
Another great review, it’s interesting to see the data... I currently use a Son28, K-Lite set up, so far, supper happy with it. Look forward to further videos from you.
Great to hear!
Very helpful. I’ve been using a Sun hub on our Rohloff equipped tandem, and I’ve lwondered how much extra work it required of us.
Thanks for sharing this data. If I were riding something like the TCR, I’d be tempted to switch off the dynamo when climbing, and just use some small battery lights, and then switch the dynamo back on at the top of the hill. Interesting.
This was a great review and also accommodated for the 90kg riders which is a great amount of data reviews.
Thanks
how the dynamo resistance can vary depending on power used?
what i know from car alternator is it has clutch mechanism. dunno bout the bike dynamo
He did a horrible job explaining that a load placed on the hub varies by accessories. The larger the power draw the higher the 'drag' due to the magnetic field that increases in relation to the load.
alternators have diodes not a clutch. your a/c compressor has a clutch.
@@fredricknietzsche7316 how diode affect alternator drag when battery 20% vs 100%
@@fredricknietzsche7316 alternators have clutch pulley
Nice video. Your recent article on rim dynamos was interesting too. It would be interesting to see a rim version of this video with comparison to hub. Pedalec should be more efficient. With caveat around mud.
I've asked for some more information/numbers from the rim dynamo manufacturers, hopefully, I can make a video soon with their data.
I can tell you from experience going back a while, you can feel a rim dynamo very distinctly. Back in the olden days of crap batteries and bulbs the generator was reliable and ready when you needed it. When you flipped the generator off your bike felt like a rocket.
@@stevek8829 The latest ones are different! www.cyclingabout.com/rim-dynamos-can-now-generate-more-power-than-hub-dynamos/
My Light alone is supposed to draw 13W. It is definitly noticable when I turn it on.
Thanks for the reviews and information, today things cost so much and there are so many choices, not always easy to try them all.
Hey, great video, much needed info. Based on this video, the findings here I went with the Son 28. The only issue for me will be on Audax rides. I ride a Thorn Mercury which I also use for tours. For shorter Audax I had another wheel build with a normal hub. It was more for weight reasons. It's far easier for my legs to use USB lights, I take another set that are charged. Many riders still run the sun 28 on audax.
Nice video! Definitely have a dynamo setup on my mind for 2021 bikepacking build!
Go for it!
very intresting. like your scintific approach. thanks for t his vidio. regards paul.
That's awesome! Much less drag than I expected
J'apprécie vos analyses dans leur pertinence et caractère scientifique.
Bravo et merci, monsieur.
Just speak english.
@@bypander801 Googlize: it's not insurmountable...
Your research 🔬 is so great it’s everything we are asking
My new Son for my V-brake is installed backwards with the power cable on the left side. Is that correct? or Son for V brake caliper can be installed in any direction
That was fascinating. I have no idea how to connect a SON hub to a bike though.
Here's something that may be unexpected: B&M's standlight functionality means that there is extra drag. When the light is "off," the standby capacitor is still being charged.
It sounds silly, but when I added an independent switch from my dynamo hub to my Cyo IQ Premium, I could feel a relatively much bigger difference between the light being on and off vs. when I used the switch on the light itself, which was almost imperceptible.
Interesting. I would have thought once the capacitor was charged the drag would lower but maybe there are more losses.
That's an interesting observation. As 'anywhere roam' mentioned, I would've suspected that the capacitor would take a very minimal power draw once it was full...
I had some faulty cabling and I was surprised to discover I could feel when the connection was good vs. not. Once I installed the switch I did some testing after charging the standlight for over an hour and it was still very noticeable!
I have wondered if it's unique to my specific light or if it's related to all of the B&M standlights. I do have an IQ-X on the way and will be checking it out.
The other problem is they just are not bright enough. My rechargeable headlight puts out 1600 Lumens at the highest setting. But my light has five settings, Low, Medium, high - 1600 Lumens and two different speeds of flashing. Yes, I have to keep it charged, but I also carry two batteries.
Great video! Thank you for your research! I've got a Son hub paired with a Sinewave cycles Beacon light and charger. I've always been curious about the drag. Thank you!
Sturmey-archer used to claim there dynohub added no friction. The vintage stuff Raleigh/SA made was always very understated but a friend told me you could feel the difference. My guess is that a 1.8W used by the lights would require 0.45 more power due to copper losses and nothing much more for magnetising and eddy current losses?
i have learnt so muvh through this channel thanks so much :)
are there hybrid style dyanmoes that charge a battery when going down a hill with excess energy produced and then use that stored energy on the flats or a climb to save on your time lost per hour?
Oooh how what tool are you using to visually compare brightnesses at 6:50 ?
I hadn’t thought about a dynamo setup until now. For me I want to tour around the state creating images and it would be one way to charge my phone or run a light at night. I’m. Not in a hurry so I am not worried about time. Besides they sound like they have less resistance than the old wheel generators.
You don't notice the dag at all, at least I don't. A better quality tyre would make far more different and more than offset it.
I have Rohloff/Son 28-Edelux front and rear set ups on my touring bikes. I'm prepared to throw away some efficiency in favour of reliability, safety and good light on tap. On a long ride I count kilograms, not grams when kitting out anyhow. So why fuss about a few percentage points of drag?
I had once a dynamo hub on my trekking bike used for commuting.
However, the usually used rear and front lights were not really reliable, the cables and connections corroded easily, and the lights were not really water proof.
Now I use a 36 V light (powered by the E Bike battery) and a AA battery powered one on my E bike, and AA battery powered ones on my other non electric bikes. Of course you have to change batteries from time to time (I use rechargeable NiMh ones), but they are now more reliable than the old one.
I use the bikes for sport and commuting, but not for crossing whole countries ;-)
I know, my Shimano hub produces more power at typical riding speeds while touring than any other hub. And I simply do not notice the extra drag with lights on/off, even while charging with lights on. All this analysis, and saying small percentage points matter - when in the real world they do not.
This is super rad! Thanks so much for making and sharing this video.
Which hub models have switches turning off magnetic resistance?
Fantastic info! Love the geeking out on this material. 👍
Any idea how to compare using a dynamo and a charger to carrying the weight of a power bank and lights? even 500 grams add some cost
I wonder if you could do some kind of set up where the dynamo kicks in on max power when going downhill, or braking, to blast-charge a Li battery or capacitor of some sort - that way it won’t slow you down at all as it will be effectively mopping up power you’re otherwise wasting in braking? A bit complex I know but a proper project for us bike-geeks!
Thanks a lot for sharing your precious experiences.
Great video, thanks a lot! I do think though that you overestimate the w/kg output of the average bikepacker. This number will vary massively across cyclists of course, but I do think that 2 w/kg average for bikepacking is quite a big overestimation. To comfortably pedal that for 5+ hours, the cyclists threshold should be 3.5 - 4 w/kg, which is higher than that of most bikepackers (pointy end of ultradistance racers excluded) - closer to the range of competitive cyclists.
I'd be with you in the uphill case - 2w/kg are produced when going uphill a 5% slope. But on the flat road, your results could be a bit misleading.
That being said, your content is fantastic and I really appreciate the effort in sharing your knowledge! Cheers from Germany.
Alex, I am curious how you use this information to inform charging strategies while riding. For example, do you turn off your charger when climbing or facing a headwind and turn it on when going downhill or on flats?
I don't have a charging strategy, I just plug things in when they're running low on power. I just like tinkering with the numbers to entertain my intellectual curiosity! 😅
@cyclingabout have you ever found a way to make the Cinq5 plus more robust? My new unit didn’t last a week before one of the small wires connecting the cap bust. More glue perhaps?
I've never busted those wires, so not too sure of a fix. Perhaps you need to ensure some extra length in the cables?
Hi , I have a problem with the xt dynamo, the wheel rolls slowly. How can I send you the video?
How about a dynamo hub with a switch+ powerbank? Turn the charger off for uphills/ flats and enable on downhills, where you have to brake either way, so you don't lose any time?
I really want to make this dynamo hub set up on my mountain bike, however, my front wheel use disc brake rotor. Is it possible to set up dynamo hub in my disc brake wheel? Hoping for your answer. Ride safe!
another great production. thank you.
Hi Alee thanks for this informationful video. I am using surly troll with one wheelset(28x1.40) deore xt t8000 and I am going to build another wheelset(26x2.50) with son 28 and rohloff 36 disc(waiting for and can chance according to your kindernay video). I dont use dynamo light because I dont ride nights. I will choose b+m e-werk for one week tours. Do you think e werk and son 28 couple is also effective for one week tours? thanx again.
I wouldn't recommend the e-werk. It doesn't make good power until you hit about 18KPH. Dynamo chargers have come a LONG way since that product was developed, so you can do so much better. I've got the options listed here: www.cyclingabout.com/list-of-hub-dynamo-power-supplies-for-usb-devices/
@@Cyclingabout Thanks for answer Alee . I reviewed this page but couldnt understand the ranking on graphs. But I think best one is plug5 plus and best price performance is Forumslader V5. I must chose one of theese according to my budget. If I understand enough.
@@erenkonu847 It sounds like you understand. Just look for the lowest speeds to achieve 2.5W, or the highest watts when riding at 20KPH.
I have a Surly Troll with Rohloff 26" and 700c wheels. The 26" wheels I have a Son 28 hub. I am disappointed with it as most of the time my Anker power banks are more than sufficient to power my devices on tour. One 26,000mA bank lasts me about 4-5 days charging Garmin Edge 1000, Smart phone, GoPro batteries, Fenix watch after which I usually stay somewhere with mains power or where ever I find a mains power point I charge. I got the Son 28 front hub thinking all my power troubles would be over. No. The output does not keep up with my devices power needs. For the cost of the hub, new rim and wheel build plus the Edelux 2 front light and Son rear, I don't think the expense is worth it if you are not going to be without power for more than 4-5 days or can't get to mains power to re-charge a power bank within this time. Maybe for long tours to desolate sparsely populated off grid places it's worth considering, but in my experience not. I have very bright Exposure lights which most of the time I don't use as I tend not to ride at night on tour. Commuting where you return home every day is different. Even then I charge my front lights probably once a week more frequently in deepest winter. On low mode which is still flippin' bright they give around 8 hours of light and 16 hours with the spare battery, 8 hours on full power which is BRIGHT!!! If I had to make the decision again I would not go for a dynamo hub, well not a SON 28, simply on the basis of the high cost. I think power banks and solar panels are a better option. Of course you need the sun or a bight day to charge from solar panels but my Anker ones are pretty good. The Son dynamo hubs are beautifully made, but the total cost of them plus lighting and plug is prohibitive for the amount of power they produce. In my experience the SON 28 hub can only power the dynamo lights or a single device such as my smart phone just about whereas the Anker power bank will charge my smartphone no problem many times. Just don't expect too much from the dynamo hub. Other Shimano hubs with higher outputs might be better but then the penalty may be they are significantly heavier and more drag. I think a dynamo hub is one means of charging to be used in combination with other means such as solar and power banks. If you want one just so you have lights on constantly then go for it otherwise you need to think long and hard whether the expense is worth it.
@@alexmorgan3435 Thank you so much Alex. The budget of my dnamo hub and charger will be 450Euros aproximetly. I think as you told me I dont need it too much. You have also rohloff system how is your experience about rohloff I was planning with ryde andra 30rims and for front hub son 28 and for rear hub rohloff or kindernay 14. Rohloff ts db oem 2 budget will be 1200 euros. Do you think for maximum 6 days travel do I need it? Thanks
It seems to me that a battery would help. Why not a regenerative system that charges the battery on downhills and flats, and discharges the battery on the climbs in order to reduce resistance?
Would be good to see a review of the kLite dynamo light system some day.
I wonder how much of drag is produced by the bearing itself and how much it could be affected by poor bearing adjustment from the factory. I found that a lot of shimano hubs were set to a too high bearing load. With quick release hubs and especially with hollow aluminium axles you allways want some play in the bearing setup, which then will be erased by the load of the quick release skewer, when build into the frame.
If you look at the hub drag graph without anything connected, the data suggests only 0.5 watts between best and worst-performing hubs. So the bearing variation is likely 5-10% of the total resistance with a light or charger connected.
I was looking for but didn’t see your link to the Schmidt SON28 on your website?
Interesting results. Thanks.
My back of the envelop analysis would go like this. A 2.4A USB port uses 12W of power and you'd add ~5W for the inefficiency of the dynamo to get a 5-17W reduction in power. Your light cyclist produces 120W and will have 103-115W remain to move the bike. That is 86-96% of the power available without the dynamo. Your heavy cyclist produces 180W and will have 163-175W remain to move the bike. That is 91-97% of the power available without the dynamo. How much of the power loss translates to speed loss is, as you say, depending on many factors. The results that you saw is within the expected theoretical values above.
For lights, high efficient LED lights are around 85-100 lumen per W. How much power that you lose will depend on how bright the lights are.
Better quality dynamo would reduce the 5W power loss but would not do any thing for the loss from the USB or light.
Would it make sense to have a hybrid dynamo/battery system and charge the battery in the downhills? How about engaging the dynamo automatically when braking? The descent of a big mountain pass is easy to spot and the dynamo can be turned on manually, but what about automatic detection of downhills? It could be optimized so that you could get the lights at night but the drag is minimized.
Can you only harness the energy generated *during* the ride? I would much rather the store energy generated into a battery and then have that charge my stuff.
Amazing video , it will be great if you can add a link to the tools you are using it will be great
Hi, I have dynamo lights: Supernova E3 Pure 3 and Supernova E3 Tail Light 2 + powerbug usb charger. I am going to buy a son 28 hub. Unfortunatelly Supernova E3 Pure 3 has no on/off switch. Could you advice me how to connect all that so I could turn all that off, turn on only lights, turn on only usb charger. Maybe some kind of switch box or something?
kLite make a bar switch for you: www.klite.com.au/product-page/klite-bar-switch-v2
Great posting. But i wonder whether you heard of a different dynamo based on the old technology: It is called "VELOGICAL". bASED IN THE OLD SYSTEM (WHEEL drag). They are made by a german co. in Cologne. worth checking into, specially if you don't need a different hub. The cost is about 150 uros Thank you for detailed info and my admiration for what you do
Yes, I have an article on rim dynamos here: www.cyclingabout.com/rim-dynamos-can-now-generate-more-power-than-hub-dynamos/
How do I buy your type of flat bar
Thinking about getting this for my new frameset
Question, is the Son dynamo hub as good, strength-wise, as the same rim, spoke set, tire, brake rotor, but with an Industry 9 front hub? Meaning, rocks, gravel, etc pose no issue for it? Are the bearings serviced similarly?
Yes, the SON is as good as it gets. It uses deep groove SKF bearings (629-2RSH) which are top notch. You cannot replace the bearings yourself - they need to be replaced at a Schmidt service centre.
(I have SON hubs that have cross multiple continents and still spin like new - I've never had to do a bearing replacement on a SON hub)
@@Cyclingabout thanks a bunch! I will try it out. I did not actually want one, but my bike shop sort of snuck it in. I could have had them remove it but since they are 3 hrs away i did not want to leave it overnight after having waited for the bike to arrive over 6 months. I don't care for the bulbous look. Besides it did not come with a rear light. As long as it takes a pounding I am OK with it for now. I will load this bike up big time. I would have bought a Tubus rack but the light was not cheap. I had an old Night Sun used by police however the NiCads needed replacing which would have set me back a few quid anyway.
Thank you for the information. I have subscribed! Not concerned with time loss as much as reliable source for minimal devices NEXT year on the GDMBR NOBO, not racing. Is there a video where you specifically talk about your personal setup? Thanks!
Since many years I use the SON for travels and rides, can not feel the drag. I was even considering equipping my travel trailer with 2 dynamo wheels to charge a bigger power-bank (but it's only at the idea stage for now)
I did a dynamo setup on the cheap: Shimano Alfine hub and Cateye Stvetso lights from China.
Nothing wrong with that setup! It's VERY common in both Japan and China.
Which battery lights do you suggest?
Excellent reviews and comments. I have a Shimano hub as standard on a Towny 7D - can I swap out the installed lights for something brighter?
I wonder where to buy it in my country or online
Your analysis are the best!
Thanks!
There are dynamos and accessories to charge your devices/phone through USB. Nice! I have not seen that before, I somewhat feel old just learning about this now.
Thanks for this video man!
What I really need is usable USB be power at back country single track speeds (10 kmph or less). I tend not to hit enough of faster trail to keep up w/ my device needs on trails like the AZT or the Colorado Trail.
Battery or solar is the only real solution for sub-10KPH.
How about using the dynamo hub during the day only to charge a battery light. You could utilise descents as much as possible so you don't perceive any additional effort. Then at night you are not loading the dynamo hub. The other option is a solar panel on the rear rack or on the handlebar bag maybe. How much power would that generate compared to a dynamo hub? To almost answer my own question, if a person puts out 120-180W then you cannot get anymore than that from the dynamo hub but you can get that power whenever necessary.
Charging batteries on downhills is an excellent idea in theory, but unfortunately, downhills are rarely long enough to get a decent charge. I wrote this on another comment asking the same question:
"It depends how long the descents are, how powerful a charger is and how bright/efficient your lights are. Let's say you need to fill a 4800mAh light battery to run it at 800 lumens for three hours. Using a powerful Forumslader USB charger, you would need to descend at 30KPH for four hours throughout the day to fill the battery up (including light battery storage losses)."
Solar panels are a better option. Bigger panels will create ample power for a couple hours of night riding.
Awesome video. Thank you.
@Cyclingabout. Do check out the NEW Klite Ultra Low Drag road-specific model. Much better.
Not that nerdy at all, in my opinion - I found exactly what I was looking for. As I'm only occasionally biking in the city, mostly during daylight, I will use a battery light. I do understand though that a dynamo is attractive for people who want to use for more than just the light and regularly. What surprised me a little was that the SP dynamo is so much worse than a SON by the way.
Ok I'm going to need some science on this. Whether connected or unconnected, the dynamo doesn't physically change. I always figured the drag would always be the same and the energy would just be lost if you didn't connect anything. But apparently when you connect something, the drag increases? So the device somehow changes the electromagnetic field?
That's correct. A powerful USB charger or a bright light will always have more electrical resistance than a less powerful, less bright product.
I use the very same SON and cinq plug. I'm not too impressed by the power it provides to my Pixel 4 though. And that it turns down output when the lights are on (I'd rather cycle harder).
It's not enough to keep the device charged during use.
I'm close to replacing it with a more powerful external bank. (Plus solar if I ever find myself truly off the grid.)
Would be curious about your thoughts on the best mobile charging setup!
You won't get much charge with the lights on; it's really one or the other. Are you using the Plug III or Plug5Plus?
@@Cyclingabout The 5 plus, because of the USB C connection. But even with the lights off, it can't keep up. I think a smartphone just draws in a little bit more then the device can provide.
@ You might have a faulty unit, or perhaps the Pixel has some weird stuff going on. You should be getting enough power with the Plug5!
A $5 USB LCD Voltmeter can help diagnose whether your Plug5 is making the right amount of power. I'd recommend plugging one in and seeing if you're getting the full 5V/0.5A at 12kph and 5V/0.9A at 20kph.
I find power output at typical riding speeds is much more important than a tiny amount of extra drag. On my bikepacking bike, even with fast tyres, I do not notice the extra drag from my Shimano hub. And the Shimano hub makes the most power at typical riding speeds. Mine has lasted a long time, and I do not need to send a wheel back to Son to get it completely rebuilt when it finally fails. Just buy another hub for cheaper than Son charges for a rebuild. The Shimano hub has dura-ace seals in it. Ridden mtbing through UK mud and puddles. Inc. the recent very wet weather, endless puddles. It just keeps going.
At least you can charge your Pixel 4 ;-)
My USB-Werk can't charge my Samsung phone with USB C but I didn't check what actually happens with a scope or voltmeter. It does work with a camera (Micro USB), it did charge the phone I had before (also Micro USB) and I also tried it for a few kilometers with a switched off iPhone 8.
Maybe a powerbank between charger and phone will help? But even if that works it's more stuff and more cables but on the other hand I can still charge on bikes without dynamo hubs or when I switch over to lights. I've installed a switch and wiring on my touring bike with positions lights/offcharger.
Nice number crunching. Sadly the chargers are all well outside my budget. Thankfully you can get a half decent dynamo lighting setup for city commuting at reasonable prices.
I see you're using the Plug5 Plus, which is what I'd like to get for myself too. There's been reports of major problems once it starts raining; have you had any such misadventure with it yet?
Also, what would be your other charger recommendation instead of the Plug5 when there's no possibility to install it (fork with no hole for instance)?
Yeah, my charger has stopped working 2-3x since I got it. I just take the top cap off and dry it out in the sun and it comes back to life. But apparently, I got one of the first production units, and Cinq told me they have improved the waterproofing since. I'm currently waiting for a new unit, but for some reason you cannot ship batteries out of Germany currently?!
I'd probably choose the NC-17 Appcon 3000 or Forumslader V5 if I had a full carbon fork.
@@Cyclingabout Nice to hear something is done regarding the waterproofing. I'm genuinely considering buying a specific fork just so I could use the Plug5.
Thank you for your recommendations too, it's really appreciated.
Your content never disappoints, thanks for everything.
awesome video GOOD JOB!
Can we turn off the dynamo hub when we don't want any power... what is the power loss then when compared with a cycle which has no dynamo hub?
No, there is no on/off switch. You can find out the power/time loss difference at 2:55.
Quality looking hubs those Son’s,Shimano know a thing or two about dynamo hubs too at almost half the price,think SP do a hub that has changeable axle options from Qr to boost etc 🤔
Those are some of the coolest gadgets I've seen.
I saw you riding with the lights turned on during day. I would suspect that resistence is higher with lights turned on and slows you down is that correct?
Correct
fantastic review thanks
This one of those "likes instantly" videos ;)
I'm really thinking of splurging for a SON28 and cinq 5 combo.
If I'm providing my own buffer battery, should I expect any performance difference between the Pure and Plus variants?
I use the SON dynamo hub, actually I have three in total. I got my first about fifteen years ago. It has been used extensively and it runs and looks like brand new today. The SON hubs are pricey but I think they are very well worth it.
I agree. Everything about the SON is great - the efficiency, reliability, bearing life and finish.
Their price is also "great" :-(
As far as I've seen SON hubs are a bit lighter than Shimano so the weight penalty compared to non-dynamo hubs is reduced. That also reduces time loss uphill a bit.