I really dont know why the suddenly decided to break up his top and bottom though. It was always a one piece suit and now its tights and a baggy shirt?
@@sleepingdanger I'd seriously watch a slice of life dragon ball anime. Goku going to work, vegeta spending time with his family, hell even some scenes with the gang getting together for a party and there isnt an interruption this time
Vegeta should've: -Been more friendly towards Goku -Gotten over his obsession with chasing Goku -Been more willing to fuse with Goku (GT even got this right by making VEGETA suggest fusing!) They're doing great with him right now; his role as a family man is well executed, and he's more open towards other characters
Vegeta is actually a lot more friendly with Goku than he ever was in Z. To be fair, Goku in Super is portrayed as rather slow and dimwitted, so it gets on Vegeta's nerves. They are both friends and rivals despite sometimes getting annoyed with each other on occasion. I do think a lot of it is played up for laughs, since DBS is a lot more laidback like DB than it is a serious shonen like DBZ. Vegeta and Goku do have a lot of agreements during certain points in Super, so their friendship isn't that dysfunctional. I see Vegeta's competition with Goku in Super with a different air to it than it was in Z. Vegeta knows he cannot catch up to Goku by directly following the same path he did, much like how many of the Earthling Dragon Team members experienced in late DB/early DBZ. Vegeta is taking his own path to power now, which is why he never wanted to learn SSJ3, chose to perfect SSJ Blue and learn spirit control training from the Yardratians instead of pursuing Ultra Instinct. It's also why he chose to specialize by training under Beerus and learn God of Destruction techniques instead of continuing to train with Whis like Goku did.
@@Heatrecks he's saying all of the points your attempting to make sucks And truthfully they do because *THAT* would ruin his character that's quite literally what makes Vegeta Vegeta And what gt did was *unique* not right just different
I dont think super ruined his character even if he accepted his goku is number 1 in the buu saga that does not mean he still cant want to become the strongest.
EXACTLY!!! I can't understand why so many people fail to grasp on this. By the end of Cell Saga he lost his "will" to fight as some put, and by the Buu saga he had ssj2, still training, surpassing everyone, but Goku's ssj3, and I've never seen anyone complain about this. Admit someone is stronger, smarter, better, or whatever, than you, doesn't mean you just gonna sit on your ass and do nothing.
Thank you! I think this video is the first time I heard anyone talk about Vegeta's transition between Z and Super and not dumb it down to "Vegeta said Goku was stronger than him during Buu, that means he didn't want to get stronger than Goku anymore, now he wants to in Super again?!?!" Just because Vegeta accepted that Goku just had something he didn't didn't mean he would never again try to get ahead of him. I admit that the single minded drive from him to surpass Goku was jarring, I was expecting the rivalry to be much friendlier and more respectful but to think that they reverted Vegeta's character because he still wants to surpass Goku, I don't agree with that. He's a Saiyan, they're hard wired to want to surpass strong people. It's literally in their DNA.
11:55 Can i just say that's dumb? I think dbs actually needs MORE slice of life moments. All action all day gets boring, and S.o.l can be used to inject more s.o.u.l into the characters.
@@shawn1799 Considering that sometimes slice of life can be BETTER than the actual fights, I'd say ur retort failed, just like Vegeta did😉 Also, a dumb answer wouldn't have 42 likes, I'd have 0 if no one agreed with me🤷🏾♂️
@@shawn1799 U can't see how me saying sometimes the slice of life is BETTER than the fights makes sense? Yea this gone be my last response😂 Actually, dragonball was originally more focused on adventure, a la journey to the west. It can be more than just fighting. Nice job calling Dragonball basic and 1 note tho😂
@@msbkaioken136 i have. i know. my point still stands, regardless of the language; the Vegeta we saw near the end of the Boo saga, and especially in the End of Z segments, was a subdued and almost friendly husband, and a wonderful father. his rivalry was put aside, for the most part, as he began to acknowledge the harm he's caused others and his growth into a family man. more importantly, his pride and self-confidence never wavered, and he was self-assured while accepting relying on others... to an extent. at least. both Gokū and Vegeta's character were reverted come Super, as they wanted to harken back to their "primes" in both design and personality: see the Cell armor returning as well as Gokū's 'Go' insignia marking his post-Freeza threads, which waved away the thematic purpose behind those Boo-arc designs in the first place. this decision by Toriyama *and* Toei had damaged his character progression, which is why i said i missed it in the first place. and no, i didn't watch the dub, i watched and read both the Japanese broadcast and the original manga edit: i didn't read the fan translated ones from 2014, so any Viz mistakes may still be applied. feel free to correct me if need be!
I have mixed feelings about it, him praising Goku wasn’t really himself but I accepted it. That’s where their rivalry ends until Super keeps dragging it.
Nah man, that's if he _always_ wore the badman shirt. If he never wore it he never would've gotten lucky with Bulma, never would've had Trunks, and all the Z-Fighters would die with Cell, Buu, Broly or Moro wreaking havoc across Universe 7 before Zeno erases it.
I was one of the people who believed it ruined Vegeta but after watching this, I can see Im wromg and was bias because Vegeta is my favourite. I now understand that yeah Vegeta is in a good place and he wasnt ruined
I think Vegeta's character in Super regressed in some ways, but improved in others. They made Vegeta acknowledge that Goku is number one, but still made him want to surpass him. I understand that Super takes place between the Buu Saga and End of Z so we aren't completely there yet with Vegeta becoming more used to his place in life. I love that Vegeta's role of being a family man is touched upon heavily in Super. Being a better husband to Bulma, being a better father to Trunks and Future Trunks, as well as Vegeta showing his softer side when Bra is born, etc. They gave Vegeta some great comedic moments too, being able to rebound off other characters much better than he was in Z; although I believe that was due to Toriyama wanting Super to rekindle some of the original Dragon Ball feel instead of strictly being like Z. The worst point of Vegeta's character is when he fought Moro, when he said he would drag him down to Hell with him. It's extremely out of place for him to say this at this point in his life. If it was Majin Vegeta saying that to Buu before his sacrifice, then it would have made sense. But Vegeta literally witnessed his own revival with the Dragon Balls because Porunga deemed him a good guy. He's even considered to be a good guy again in Battle of Gods since he was able to participate in the Super Saiyan God with the ritual, something only good hearted Saiyans can do. His comment towards Moro makes absolutely no sense, and it REALLY bothered me. Other than that, Vegeta is alright for the most part. I think Gohan's character suffered the most out of everyone in the Z-Fighters.
Vegeta shown to be a good guy but he still feels the guilt of what he’s done which is why he himself thinks he’s a bad guy. The manga is focusing on that part of vegeta
My hunch is that Vegeta himself thinks his evil and deserves to be in hell, but as shown everyone knows he isnt. He probably feels guilty for what he done in his early life. I think it makes sense he saying this
Personally I dont think dbs really ruined his character. Sure, at the end of z he wasnt really interested in getting stronger than goku but I have a counter argument. At the end fo z vegeta had no conceivable way of getting stronger than goku so he just gave up. In super he had the opportunity to train with beerus and whis, two people who could kill goku with one finger
× agree but I think they shouldn't have made him want to surpass goku anymore insstead make him wsnt to get stronger but not cause of goku he kinda does have another reason to get stonger and thats to protect his family ans friends. That being said i still like him in super I dont think it ruined him though.
But it contradicts Vegeta's speech at the end of Z where he finally admits Goku is #1 in Super Vegeta acts like its the Android Saga where he acts arrogant and cocky leading him to get his ass kicked really bad and still complains about Fusion compare DBS Vegeta to GT Vegeta where in GT he's more down to earth,wearing earthling clothing,a family man,and urges Goku to do the fusion dance a true natural progression for Vegeta
@@albertthepeacock8020 but wasn’t GT a further time jump? That explains why he was more content in GT. He was living in that manner longer than super where it was less than a year after buu.
@@albertthepeacock8020 he says goku is number 1, yes, but he said that because he finally understood that no matter how hard he tries he cant surpass goku. However, he was thinking on his own. He never had the opportunity to surpass goku back then. In super he was literally hand given the opportunity to surpass goku without goku even knowing. Plus I'm pretty sure the sub was a different speech but I cant say for sure
The way I see it the "you are number one" speech was sarcasm which if I remember the manga correctly it's hinted more towards there with the respectful speech being shown with the most undignified parts of the battle like Goku biting Buu. In Super the Blue Evolved scene is where he realizes he actually had a point when he was saying that speech and fully accepts that Kakarot truly is number one. He still wants to surpass him but he understands that he needs to stop trying to one up him and go his own route if he wants to actually get anywhere.
The only one who's become a dusty donny is unfortunately Piccolo - Vegeta has levelled up and is a family man not a Kakarot infatuated weakling he's the better character (so far)
Well, piccolo was a bit of a wimp in super be he was a wimp in the buu saga as well. In super he just rounded his arc of becoming the worlds best babysitter. Granted that's a huge step down from one of the biggest threats of the world and the son of demon king piccolo but it's still within character
@@Not_Claptrap he wasn't a wimp in the Buu saga he was clearly outmatched but he was still willing to throw his life away to help goten and trunks fight
@@Not_Claptrap that was just a bit of bad writing in the buu saga, I mean we've seen piccolo do his classic brave shit throughout z, his sacrifice in the saiyan saga, his bout with frieza and also him standing up to both imperfect and semi perfect cell. The piccolo we know and love is no pushover
You’re so on point about the solo wins. The Prince of all Saiyans has been done wrong quite a few times. Overall 1v1 fights been no longer in popular Shonen though tbh. It’s takes away from end fights for me personally, everyone gets a hand raised now, I guess teamwork always wins in the end.
I mean I do like the Vegeta character in Super, I guessed that it revolves around surpassing Kakarot/Goku and become too much of an obsession. It surprised that he could’ve been better warrior focused a different path to helping other
I’m honestly liking what Super’s doing with Vegeta recently One of my favorite moments in the Moro arc is when what he said after he saved the namek kid from Moro “I have troubled history with the namekians. I did them untold harm. So I can’t let any more of them perish” You can tell with this line that he feels guilty for what he did to them back In the namek arc and is trying to redeem himself for that
I feel like super continued vegetas character arc while keeping his pride, super shows that he does care about his family, but his pride keeps him from admitting it, and he still wants to be the best, nothing could change that
Vegeta still seemingly wanting to get stronger than Goku in Super never seemed all that strange to me personally, maybe because I saw his monologue at the end of the Buu arc as more of a change to his core motivation rather than his methods. Before then he was trying to get stronger than Goku because he thought he deserved to be the strongest fighter out there, and was dead-set on correcting that offense to his pride. Afterward Goku remains a good training partner and yardstick for his progress (and he remains grumpy with Kakarot because that's just how he is), but in the end he is now focused on just being the strongest *he* can be. The fact he's getting so many new powers and techniques that Goku doesn't have also helps to show that change in motivation. At this point, besting Goku is a journey, not a destination.
What if suggestions: 1. What if Katas (the father of the nameless namekian) went to earth alongside his son? 2. What if King Cold was revived instead of Frieza? 3. What if Tao appeared in the androids saga as part of Gero's army and got upgraded? 4. What if Towa, Mira and Fu appeared in the Buu saga and were under Babidi's command alongside Dabura? 5. What if Cui, Zarbon and Dodoria turned good? 6. What if Tarble and Turles appeared in the saiyan saga? 7. What if Zeno was more mature?
In some ways yes, in others no. One of the easiest ways to see this is through his (and Goku’s) outfits. Vegeta’s outfits throughout z had a habit of decreasing the amount of saiyan armor over time going from the full outfit at the start to ending with nothing but the spandex and gloves with a loose fitting muscle shirt. At the very end, we see him drop the saiyan armor completely, opting for a normal earth attire at the tournament. This is symbolic of him becoming less of a pure warrior, and beginning to become more human and caring. Goku’s is less prominent. His is much more focused on his Kanji changing with his master, to him eventually dropping the Kanji, showing that he’s the best. At the end of z, his outfit changes to a blue showing that he is transitioning to his new role and arc as a master to the next generation. Vegeta’s entire arc beforehand was about putting aside his pride to work with others and accept that he isn’t the strongest. Meanwhile Goku’s arc since the Beginning of Z was solely him growing stronger as a fighter. Super had to shoot up the power scale and introduce entire new concepts to keep Goku’s arc going. Vegeta’s arc was completed though, so they had to push him back a bit. The problem with Goku is that he’s become nothing but a sliding power scale with a stagnant character. How many times is he gonna let his guard down and be defeated? I will agree, the problem with Vegeta has been remedied a bit with the latest arc’s focusing less on his pride or need for power and more on his family and redemption.
The regression in his character bothered me of course but there were some standout moments that felt in line with his Buu arc characterization, like him dancing for Beerus to protect everyone and sending his energy to Goku in the ToP. That said, I really disliked when they basically repeated moments again for the sake of "development" that already happened (which was an issue with multiple characters, such as Piccolo). He did the final explosion again in the tournament of power and it was pretty much the same as the original scene except he didn't die and the heartwarming speech beforehand was gone and replaced with a different one. The Moro arc handled him the best in Super, like you said in the video.
Hands up if you've had a powerful moment of revelation about yourself and life, only to find that understanding and living based on that revelation isn't always natural or possible, so you revert to how you were prior to that revelation. 😅✋
I like GT vegta cause in the GT timeline he truly stopped caring about surpassing goku he still trained to better himself but it had nothing to do with goku but he still did have his rivalry with goku but not like how it was in Z and super
@@kingkilla777 i mean vegeta really did nothing in gt except getting his body stolen, get ssj4 after goku and fuse with goku. Vegeta's character in gt follows the anime version from the buu saga since they made vegeta's speech a serious moment but in the manga vegeta's speech was kinda getting clowned on with a gag fight.
I mean there was an episode in GT that he wanted to surpass goku or just be equal I think it’s because of the transformation but that doesn’t mean that he wants to be stronger or want to kill goku
Vegeta NEEDS a kill against a main villain. Not some background help that gives the edge to the main character. This would only further his development and give him some much needed shine. He's been in the same spot forever it seems. They'll give him a power boost, only for him to get annihilated by the main villain so Goku can whip out a new transformation and get the W. The formula is predictable and needs to get mixed up. They gave Gohan a win a couple times, Goku always gets the win in the end, but everyone else is just there. You could effectively write out Vegeta and put in Gohan and the story wouldn't change at all. This is obviously a huge problem with not only the story, but the characters. Everyone that isn't a Saiyan gets the shaft.
Your right about him getting a win every once in a while it's just it's like vegeta gets his ass kicked almost every time new villain comes around and your right sometimes it changes but most of the time after vegeta gets beat and Goku comes to save the day that's my problem they could at least make the storyline a bit more interesting
If you look at the Kanzenban ending of Z, Vegeta changed his mind there too. 15ish years before Super. To me, this is more accurate because it's showing why he changed his mind in the end of Z in Super. I feel this is something a lot of people forget when they complain about Vegetas characterization in Super.
in all honesty dbz was way better than super and to top it off the characters like gohan trunks vegeta goku and piccolo bulma had good character development.
I like how Vegetas end goal right now is mostly becoming strong enough to protect earth from any threat.. while goku aims to become the strongest fighter.. if they continue that it would benefit him greatly.. S.o.L. scenes in super were great like i never skip those things since just fighting gets hella boring.. i still want them to travel to u6 bonding with the u6 saiyans and all that...
Average Super God Fanboy Vegeta: ima surpass kakaroth aaaaaaaaaaa Average GT Monke Enjoyer Vegeta: I am fine with my life and I wanna get stronger to surpass my limits, not to spite on Kakaroth.
I think the reason Vegeta went back to trying to surpass Goku is because of what happened in Battle Of Gods. For a moment he surpassed Goku. In random with Goku losing to Beerus, I think that’s what relit the flame. It’s him realizing maybe Goku being stronger than him isn’t as set in stone as he thought. Though I think Goku mastering Ultra Instinct put him back into the mindset of Goku being Number 1.
The only Vegeta I've seen was DBS Vegeta, I have no access to viewing Z I only know a general summary of it pieced together by many "what if" videos and TH-cam clips. and despite that he's my favorite character besides Frieza and Beerus.
it’s not even about “character development”, he just acts so weird. he used to be so badass with his intros and serious demeanor but in DBS he just keeps making a fool of himself, that dance scene made me turn off dbs and never watch it again, compare it something like his humor inside of buu, now that was peak vegeta when he wasnt serious
The bingo dance scene was to show that he wasn't as ignorant as he used to be and gave up his pride to do a fucking dance, and was also used to show how built different beerus was that he was so strong that even vegeta would resort to doing a thing like that
While I don’t really care about the “Vegeta has never beat a main villain argument”, I do agree with the discontent towards the character regression of Vegeta from the Buu saga to Super The Cell saga did have Vegeta claim to not fight anymore, but in a cutscene in the DBZ: Kakarot game, it shows Gohan indirectly reinvigorate his motivation to be stronger. I don’t know if that’s considered canon, but I think it’s something worth acknowledging. However in the Buu saga, Vegeta basically had a separate mini arc within his larger arc over DBZ. He intentionally regressed to his merciless Saiyan Saga personality through being possessed by Babidi. Then ironically, he comes to appreciate his family while a Majin, and giving up his life to protect them (even if it was in vain). And then by fusing with Goku and witnessing goku’s superiority against Kid Buu, he acknowledges it. Even GT did more service to his character than Super really, in terms of keeping to his Buu Saga speech. He no longer strives to surpass Goku, but just get stronger. And even once he finally got on the same level of power as Goku (going ssj4), he’s the one that suggests fusion, showing that he has grown. Now, Super did do a good job in taking his character in a different direction. Keeping a rivalry with Goku without it being 101% hate boners, along with having a (relatively) healthy connection to his family. But it ultimately cheapens the impact of his character growth through (at least) the Buu Saga, if not most of DBZ. For me, Super didn’t RUIN Vegeta’s character, but it did cheapen it.
I gotta disagree. Vegeta is a very different character than he was in Z but it’s not a bad thing. He went from villain to anti-hero to being a straight up hero while still keeping his arrogance and Saiyan pride
Vegeta didn't back track on anything Having a healthy rivalry against someone is not at all for living for and being obsessed with being stronger than them and doing it by any means weather you have to off innocent people, forget about your family and protecting your friends etc like in Z before he admitted Goku was better
My friend saw the part of battle of gods where he starts dancing to calm beerus down and immediately swore off super, claiming it ruined Z and Vegetas character forever.
Pls do a What if goku landed at Zeno world (while his father bardock sended baby goku to a world called earth his space pod struck with a black hole and his space pod glitched out of reality somehow and he ends up in Zeno's world as a child still then Zeno asks grand priest what the noise was and grand priest finds goku's space pod then tells zeno and zeno likes the child and told grand priest to train him and you can add other cool stuff on.
I love that they've gone with the ultra instinct Goku and GoD Vegeta. The overused Vegeta catching up to Goku on transformations was getting so bland and a waste of a great character
@@Not_Claptrap no he doesn't. People love bringing up the "He acts exactly like he does in super argument" but he literally doesn't. Z Sub Goku apologized for being a selfish husband, when has super Goku done that? Outside of ultra instinct, when has Goku acted serious enough to threaten the supreme kai or when he was convincing Vegeta to fuse by telling everyone he loves his dead? Goku getting mad at black means nothing compared to the multiple rage and anger moments Goku had against Frieza. Oh yeah, nowhere. Feel free to ask for more examples when Z Sub Goku doesn't act like Super Goku. I'd also bring up the movies but you're probably gonna go "dur noncanon" Also you DO realize that an anime isn't just words and people can look at Goku's ACTIONS in the anime and not just the dub?
@@joshgroban5291 y'know goku was serious throughout most of super right? And technically goku did apologize, he apologized for the tournament of power even happening. Plus is super he really wasnt much of a selfish husband to begin with. Goku was always the guy who was carefree unless his life really did depend on it, like in the case of supreme kai getting threatened
Vegeta is ruined with the Bingo dance scene, and his failure to make omeletes, its obvious he's getting out of his way to do these stuff, even i he lost his pride, he shouldn't lose his dignity.
@@XJSPlays02 he can't crack an egg, yet he thought he could make a god-worthy meal, humilated himself to try, and humilated himself even more by failure lol
They ruined Vegeta’s character by doing the same story arc again with him and doing scenes just for nostalgia i.e. the Final atonement again against vs Toppo.
Yeah, the Final Atonement bit was rather out of place, but sort of fitting when juxtaposed to Toppo. Whereas Toppo sacrificed his morality and everything he stood for in order to gain the God of Destruction form for power, Vegeta did the opposite and stood his ground, remembering what he's fighting for (his family, the Earth, etc) and why he continues to fight for it. It's a rather good moment if you look at it with that lens. I think Vegeta's character was at its worst when he fought Moro. Like Piccolo talked about how much Vegeta has grown as a person in Chapter 62. Why bother bringing up the obvious, Piccolo? You already talked about this during the Buu Saga when Vegeta sacrificed himself. Vegeta himself even touched on this during his monologue while Goku was fighting Kid Buu. Then towards the end of the chapter, Vegeta says to Moro, "I'm naturally bound to go to Hell. At the end of the day, I'm a villain. I've been preparing for the consequences for some time. I'll say hello to you when I'm down there." It's extremely bullshit and I absolutely hate it. It's Sonic fanfiction levels of edginess. Porunga literally restored Vegeta back to life because he saw him as a good person. It makes Vegeta look self-depreciating and almost gives him an aura of low confidence in himself.
the final atonement goes well with the vegeta vs toppo fight, it's no where near ruining his character, the super anime did pretty good when handling vegeta's character can't say the same about the manga
The one objection I have here is the false equivalency between Goku and Vegeta's performances in Super. ROF: Not only did Goku get the kill on Frieza, he was also the one to get the big fight with him and wore him down, meaning Vegeta was pretty much just doing Goku's dirty work. Universe 6: Sure, he didn't outright beat Hit, but he did get the big fight and he was the main reason Universe 7 won. Zamasu: In both the Anime and Manga he's the one to get the big solo confrontation with Merged Zamasu, even overshadowing Future Trunks in the Manga, and he was the one who was friends with Zeno and had the Zeno Button, so he was responsible for Zamasu's erasure. ToP: Not only did Jiren pretty much just treat him like an appetiser while Goku was the main course, in both the Anime and Manga he wasn't even one of the last three people fighting Jiren, and Goku had the majority of the big climactic fight that wore down and beat him. Broly: Broly knocked away Vegeta with one punch so the majority of the solo fighting was against Goku. Then again I'd say this was the most justified time for this as the focus was more on Broly than Goku. Moro: This was the worst case of them all as Goku was mostly just a side character for most of this arc with no real buildup of him being the one to beat Moro. Much like in the Android saga, Goku wasn't really a major focus and there was more time spent on hyping up Vegeta, and Goku had the jobber loss before Vegeta came in to save him. Unlike in ROF Vegeta even actually does more to defeat Moro than UI Goku did and the whole of chapter 61 was spent with the side characters praising Vegeta as the top dog. Then Moro gets a shitty looking new form that negates everything Vegeta did to win and that's the end of his contributions. They even have Goku get defeated yet again by Moro's ultimate form in a situation that seems perfect for Vegeta to take the win, but nope! Vegeta plays the role of a sidekick and just powers up Goku so he can use a megazord and win anyway. In every single arc of Super, Goku is either the main one responsible for the victory or he beats the enemy outright. While Goku IS meant to be the main character and #1, Vegeta is meant to be his rival, someone who can provide just as good of a challenge as the villains, and yet he's a _distant_ second to Goku to the point where he acted as a sidekick by the end of the Moro arc. Vegeta did deserve a win (especially against Moro and Frieza), so that he actually looks somewhat competitive to Goku. If you want Goku to just be the unchallengeable #1, that's what GT is for as that's the series where Goku's story reaches its end. Super is meant to be the show where there is a sense of competition among a lot of the cast.
Man this is the only thing I didn’t like abt dbz in total, goku always has some random plot armour around him, like the writer is like, “hey! I think we’re missing someone, oh ye vegeta! Let’s make him 1% stronger and then let’s give goku 5 new forms to match up!” Like vegeta Is always forgotten, he always got second hand forms, (blue and blue 2.0 not counted), like, it was my childhood DREAM, to see vegeta and goku going toe to toe, but nope, goku is always levereged, yes goku is the main charector, but now, there’s a WAY too big power gap, any time vegeta gets close too gokus power, they give goku a thousand new kinds of power, like wtf
Tbh I say no they didn't ruin him. Unlike goku lol. In super, vegeta may not be perfect but he's showing growth as a character. He's had some good moments, he's working and slowly getting better. My issue with him is his lack of dubs when the moment calls for it lol.
Dragon ball super Vegeta is not bad just misunderstood he doesn't fight to be the best or to beat everyone he trains and fights to protect his family and the life he has I really hated the way they handled him before the Moro arc but I started to realise he wasn't the same Vegeta as in the cell or even the Buu saga he just wants to live his best life with his family and protect what's dearest to him
As I see it there are three types of anime watches The people who just watch it The people who just think some good characters are bad And the people who just think some characters are are better or want to say this anime is better than that anime when it doesn’t matter we all watch anime for the same reason because we all love something the anime is doing to make us instead in it
I think gt Vegeta was better written he no longer trains to surpass Goku and become the strongest but rather to see how strong he can become similarly to Goku's modivations to train. And Vegeta calling himself an earthling with the pride of a Saiyan. And wanting to become earths protector with him calling himself earths protector and saying it's now up to him, trunks, Goten, Gohan and pan to keep up the peace after Goku leave with Shenron with Vegeta taking up Goku's mantel as earths protector/champion
If Vegeta is smart he can learn kioken and combine with super Saiyan blue evolution that would give him bigger boost or he can learn super Saiyan blue evolution 3
Well I agree with you for the most part when you were talking about Vegeta's training method and his backstory yes as well as a few of his attacks but the stuff that he learned on that planet Goku learn instant transmission that's not really extinctively his the earthlings can learn all those techniques too from those aliens all they have to do is show up and put in the time Vegeta is a very unique character I love the fact that he came from being a murderer to now being a great family man but he still has the one key flaw that makes him second place he always lets Goku dictate the terms of everything yes it looks like they're both arguing about who goes first but let's be real go cool a lot smarter than people get on credit for Goku sometimes be letting Vegeta go first just so he can learn what the enemy can do and he make it look like he's disappointed while he letting Vegeta do it and yes and certain situations Goku is a total idiot and Vegeta is smarter than him in those situations but in terms of battle Goku outsmarts Vegeta Goku doesn't have any common sense but he has really good battle sense except for when it comes to finally finishing off the bad guy but I like to think he sees the bigger picture and hopes that there's good in the enemy even when there's none and Vegeta on the other hand whether you been trained against your will brainwashed or tricked into doing something he goes back into his old ways and just tries to kill you💯😓😓😓😓
I know pure power is kinda worthless at this point, but it would be nice to see goku chase vegeta for a bit. Make him hands down strong and see what goku is like obsessing about it.
Yeah that's what keep trying to tell people they say Goku always wins fights and he hasn't won a major fight on his own in a while at least the anime since Frieza.
Whilst it’s not vegetas show. He, easily bested a FP Moro, saved Universe 11 by eliminating Toppo to stop a 2v1 scenario. Saved the galaxy by draining planet Moros ki to expose the gem. Used forced spirit fission to fuel Goku with divine ki from uub to get the final assist on Moro. And learned Hakai. Not to mention achieving SSG without the ritual. He had incredible suspense built in the Moro arc with his instant transmission return. He’s been slapped around and beat down just as many times as Goku has in the past few arcs in super some thirsty vegeta fans that think he’s the guy need to chill. And is now getting the same mysterious treatment in the granolah arc with past saiyan and cerealian lore something Goku knows nothing of, man is shining Just because he isn’t wrote as the main guy in someone else’s show doesn’t mean he is being done dirty or that the creators hate him.
But goku didnt even get the win? This ain't league of legends, if everyone else helps defeat him and I get the final blow I'm not the person who won, everyone else won as well
@@lordraiden7397 Honestly i really dont think its important how many wins a chracter has I dont mind at all but I would like other chracters to get a chance to shine besides just goku and vegeta we haven't see too much off gohan but we do know that he has been training using a gravity chamber he stated that in the moro arc I guess what I'm saying is personally I want the others to get more screen time they don't even have to win a fight i just wanna see them in action more. Cause I think both goku qnd vegeta get alot of screen time obviously cause their the main chracters but still.
@@kingkilla777 Gohan narratively shouldn't have this much screentime and this point in the series. He missed his chance before and to do it now would be disingenuous.
Vegeta character arc end in Buu saga Gohan character arc end in cell saga Goku character arc end in frieza saga Piccolo character arc end in saiyan saga And dbs has nothing to do about character development
Vegeta indirectly calls Goku the strongest or relatively. When some beats Goku he’s like “they beat Kakarot? 👀😬😮” like he’s saying if Goku can’t beat em imma have a lot of trouble or probably can’t at all.
DBS ruined him soley because he doesn't have his Buu Saga outfit 24/7 (his superior outfit) :]
FR THO
His royal armor is a high 2nd also :]
*saiyan saga armour
I really dont know why the suddenly decided to break up his top and bottom though. It was always a one piece suit and now its tights and a baggy shirt?
1 of the main things i hate is that SSJBE is equal to SSJBKK 20 THAT pissed me off
The vegeta slice of life scenes are some of the best scenes
Slice of life in super is fantastic
@@sleepingdanger I'd seriously watch a slice of life dragon ball anime. Goku going to work, vegeta spending time with his family, hell even some scenes with the gang getting together for a party and there isnt an interruption this time
@@Not_Claptrap I kinda agree but I also love the fights
True
PREACH
Vegeta should've:
-Been more friendly towards Goku
-Gotten over his obsession with chasing Goku
-Been more willing to fuse with Goku (GT even got this right by making VEGETA suggest fusing!)
They're doing great with him right now; his role as a family man is well executed, and he's more open towards other characters
The character of vegeta is all this thing that you say if they change it they ruin the character
Are those meant to be points because no no and no
@@msbkaioken136 ?
Vegeta is actually a lot more friendly with Goku than he ever was in Z. To be fair, Goku in Super is portrayed as rather slow and dimwitted, so it gets on Vegeta's nerves. They are both friends and rivals despite sometimes getting annoyed with each other on occasion. I do think a lot of it is played up for laughs, since DBS is a lot more laidback like DB than it is a serious shonen like DBZ. Vegeta and Goku do have a lot of agreements during certain points in Super, so their friendship isn't that dysfunctional.
I see Vegeta's competition with Goku in Super with a different air to it than it was in Z. Vegeta knows he cannot catch up to Goku by directly following the same path he did, much like how many of the Earthling Dragon Team members experienced in late DB/early DBZ.
Vegeta is taking his own path to power now, which is why he never wanted to learn SSJ3, chose to perfect SSJ Blue and learn spirit control training from the Yardratians instead of pursuing Ultra Instinct. It's also why he chose to specialize by training under Beerus and learn God of Destruction techniques instead of continuing to train with Whis like Goku did.
@@Heatrecks he's saying all of the points your attempting to make sucks
And truthfully they do because *THAT* would ruin his character that's quite literally what makes Vegeta Vegeta
And what gt did was *unique* not right just different
I dont think super ruined his character even if he accepted his goku is number 1 in the buu saga that does not mean he still cant want to become the strongest.
EXACTLY!!! I can't understand why so many people fail to grasp on this. By the end of Cell Saga he lost his "will" to fight as some put, and by the Buu saga he had ssj2, still training, surpassing everyone, but Goku's ssj3, and I've never seen anyone complain about this. Admit someone is stronger, smarter, better, or whatever, than you, doesn't mean you just gonna sit on your ass and do nothing.
Thank you! I think this video is the first time I heard anyone talk about Vegeta's transition between Z and Super and not dumb it down to "Vegeta said Goku was stronger than him during Buu, that means he didn't want to get stronger than Goku anymore, now he wants to in Super again?!?!"
Just because Vegeta accepted that Goku just had something he didn't didn't mean he would never again try to get ahead of him. I admit that the single minded drive from him to surpass Goku was jarring, I was expecting the rivalry to be much friendlier and more respectful but to think that they reverted Vegeta's character because he still wants to surpass Goku, I don't agree with that. He's a Saiyan, they're hard wired to want to surpass strong people. It's literally in their DNA.
@@TheOblivion5 hes still respectable to goku, he just cant stand gokus stupidness half the time
@@sidneyrodrigues2238 Like GT Vegeta did
i feel like accepted here is not used right. its more that he admitted not accepted
11:55
Can i just say that's dumb?
I think dbs actually needs MORE slice of life moments. All action all day gets boring, and S.o.l can be used to inject more s.o.u.l into the characters.
Considering that the entire DB series is more focused on fighting, and not slice of life, your answer is pretty dumb.
@@shawn1799
Considering that sometimes slice of life can be BETTER than the actual fights, I'd say ur retort failed, just like Vegeta did😉
Also, a dumb answer wouldn't have 42 likes, I'd have 0 if no one agreed with me🤷🏾♂️
@@chriss.249 You misdirected the entire point, and your comeback made no sense.
And it’s not like dumb answers can’t be agreeable.
@@shawn1799
U can't see how me saying sometimes the slice of life is BETTER than the fights makes sense?
Yea this gone be my last response😂
Actually, dragonball was originally more focused on adventure, a la journey to the west. It can be more than just fighting. Nice job calling Dragonball basic and 1 note tho😂
Vegeta is straight up becoming his own character now... and that's a good thing.
no its not good
Idk he was already his own character in GT and was over his obsession with Goku then they regressed his character
It's quite literally just character regression he's been his own character
i really miss the Vegeta #1 speech, to be perfectly honest... i do wish it carried over, and he was slightly more chummy
Go read the Manga the dub has story changes
@@msbkaioken136 i have. i know. my point still stands, regardless of the language; the Vegeta we saw near the end of the Boo saga, and especially in the End of Z segments, was a subdued and almost friendly husband, and a wonderful father. his rivalry was put aside, for the most part, as he began to acknowledge the harm he's caused others and his growth into a family man. more importantly, his pride and self-confidence never wavered, and he was self-assured while accepting relying on others... to an extent. at least. both Gokū and Vegeta's character were reverted come Super, as they wanted to harken back to their "primes" in both design and personality: see the Cell armor returning as well as Gokū's 'Go' insignia marking his post-Freeza threads, which waved away the thematic purpose behind those Boo-arc designs in the first place. this decision by Toriyama *and* Toei had damaged his character progression, which is why i said i missed it in the first place. and no, i didn't watch the dub, i watched and read both the Japanese broadcast and the original manga
edit: i didn't read the fan translated ones from 2014, so any Viz mistakes may still be applied. feel free to correct me if need be!
I have mixed feelings about it, him praising Goku wasn’t really himself but I accepted it. That’s where their rivalry ends until Super keeps dragging it.
Do a "What if Vegeta never wore the badman shirt?" Pretty sure that'd end with him one tapping the Grand Priest or something.
Nah man, that's if he _always_ wore the badman shirt. If he never wore it he never would've gotten lucky with Bulma, never would've had Trunks, and all the Z-Fighters would die with Cell, Buu, Broly or Moro wreaking havoc across Universe 7 before Zeno erases it.
I was one of the people who believed it ruined Vegeta but after watching this, I can see Im wromg and was bias because Vegeta is my favourite. I now understand that yeah Vegeta is in a good place and he wasnt ruined
BRING BACK WHAT IF THE GINYU FORCE WAS GOOOD PLLLEASSSEEEEE
Wait did he stop
@@donte7584 no I'm asking just because 🤨
@@vext1nction232 oh well when u say “bring back”
I think Vegeta's character in Super regressed in some ways, but improved in others.
They made Vegeta acknowledge that Goku is number one, but still made him want to surpass him. I understand that Super takes place between the Buu Saga and End of Z so we aren't completely there yet with Vegeta becoming more used to his place in life.
I love that Vegeta's role of being a family man is touched upon heavily in Super. Being a better husband to Bulma, being a better father to Trunks and Future Trunks, as well as Vegeta showing his softer side when Bra is born, etc.
They gave Vegeta some great comedic moments too, being able to rebound off other characters much better than he was in Z; although I believe that was due to Toriyama wanting Super to rekindle some of the original Dragon Ball feel instead of strictly being like Z.
The worst point of Vegeta's character is when he fought Moro, when he said he would drag him down to Hell with him. It's extremely out of place for him to say this at this point in his life. If it was Majin Vegeta saying that to Buu before his sacrifice, then it would have made sense.
But Vegeta literally witnessed his own revival with the Dragon Balls because Porunga deemed him a good guy. He's even considered to be a good guy again in Battle of Gods since he was able to participate in the Super Saiyan God with the ritual, something only good hearted Saiyans can do. His comment towards Moro makes absolutely no sense, and it REALLY bothered me.
Other than that, Vegeta is alright for the most part. I think Gohan's character suffered the most out of everyone in the Z-Fighters.
Vegeta could still belive deep down he deserves hell
Vegeta shown to be a good guy but he still feels the guilt of what he’s done which is why he himself thinks he’s a bad guy. The manga is focusing on that part of vegeta
My hunch is that Vegeta himself thinks his evil and deserves to be in hell, but as shown everyone knows he isnt.
He probably feels guilty for what he done in his early life. I think it makes sense he saying this
Personally I dont think dbs really ruined his character. Sure, at the end of z he wasnt really interested in getting stronger than goku but I have a counter argument. At the end fo z vegeta had no conceivable way of getting stronger than goku so he just gave up. In super he had the opportunity to train with beerus and whis, two people who could kill goku with one finger
× agree but I think they shouldn't have made him want to surpass goku anymore insstead make him wsnt to get stronger but not cause of goku he kinda does have another reason to get stonger and thats to protect his family ans friends. That being said i still like him in super I dont think it ruined him though.
But it contradicts Vegeta's speech at the end of Z where he finally admits Goku is #1 in Super Vegeta acts like its the Android Saga where he acts arrogant and cocky leading him to get his ass kicked really bad and still complains about Fusion compare DBS Vegeta to GT Vegeta where in GT he's more down to earth,wearing earthling clothing,a family man,and urges Goku to do the fusion dance a true natural progression for Vegeta
@@albertthepeacock8020 but wasn’t GT a further time jump? That explains why he was more content in GT. He was living in that manner longer than super where it was less than a year after buu.
@@albertthepeacock8020 he says goku is number 1, yes, but he said that because he finally understood that no matter how hard he tries he cant surpass goku. However, he was thinking on his own. He never had the opportunity to surpass goku back then. In super he was literally hand given the opportunity to surpass goku without goku even knowing. Plus I'm pretty sure the sub was a different speech but I cant say for sure
@@Not_Claptrap let's not forget the classic "my bulma" scene where he actually surpassed goku for a moment
The way I see it the "you are number one" speech was sarcasm which if I remember the manga correctly it's hinted more towards there with the respectful speech being shown with the most undignified parts of the battle like Goku biting Buu. In Super the Blue Evolved scene is where he realizes he actually had a point when he was saying that speech and fully accepts that Kakarot truly is number one. He still wants to surpass him but he understands that he needs to stop trying to one up him and go his own route if he wants to actually get anywhere.
The only one who's become a dusty donny is unfortunately Piccolo - Vegeta has levelled up and is a family man not a Kakarot infatuated weakling he's the better character (so far)
Well, piccolo was a bit of a wimp in super be he was a wimp in the buu saga as well. In super he just rounded his arc of becoming the worlds best babysitter. Granted that's a huge step down from one of the biggest threats of the world and the son of demon king piccolo but it's still within character
@@Not_Claptrap he wasn't a wimp in the Buu saga he was clearly outmatched but he was still willing to throw his life away to help goten and trunks fight
@@nagaskay7381 he was so scared of buu he didnt even want to fight him. Piccolo in super was standing up to moro
@@Not_Claptrap that was just a bit of bad writing in the buu saga, I mean we've seen piccolo do his classic brave shit throughout z, his sacrifice in the saiyan saga, his bout with frieza and also him standing up to both imperfect and semi perfect cell. The piccolo we know and love is no pushover
@@tbag4465 that's my point, it's not a problem exclusive to super
You’re so on point about the solo wins. The Prince of all Saiyans has been done wrong quite a few times. Overall 1v1 fights been no longer in popular Shonen though tbh. It’s takes away from end fights for me personally, everyone gets a hand raised now, I guess teamwork always wins in the end.
Let’s goooooo another Salad Saiyan video
I mean I do like the Vegeta character in Super, I guessed that it revolves around surpassing Kakarot/Goku and become too much of an obsession. It surprised that he could’ve been better warrior focused a different path to helping other
I’m honestly liking what Super’s doing with Vegeta recently One of my favorite moments in the Moro arc is when what he said after he saved the namek kid from Moro
“I have troubled history with the namekians. I did them untold harm. So I can’t let any more of them perish” You can tell with this line that he feels guilty for what he did to them back In the namek arc and is trying to redeem himself for that
I'm so early this is the earliest I've ever been
Dude same
Nobody gives a shit why do people make these kind of comments
@@TheLocalScrub-m If you don’t like the comment skip it
nuh uh
Wow this got hostile fast
I feel like super continued vegetas character arc while keeping his pride, super shows that he does care about his family, but his pride keeps him from admitting it, and he still wants to be the best, nothing could change that
Maybe Vegeta should’ve called Goku Baka-rot. That would be funny, I think
Oh no.... NO.... DO YOU REALIZE WHAT THAT WOULD CAUSE!!!!!
2 Words that’s cursed
The Gohan video was the reason I found and subscribed to this channel. Keep up the great content my brother.
Completely agree. The good outweighs the bad.
I’m just already picturing the future with Vegeta as a God of destruction and Goku being his angel. That is gonna be so sick
Except we don’t know if goku wants to be angel yet
1:22
Zorro: damn it not AGAIN!🤧
Vegeta still seemingly wanting to get stronger than Goku in Super never seemed all that strange to me personally, maybe because I saw his monologue at the end of the Buu arc as more of a change to his core motivation rather than his methods. Before then he was trying to get stronger than Goku because he thought he deserved to be the strongest fighter out there, and was dead-set on correcting that offense to his pride. Afterward Goku remains a good training partner and yardstick for his progress (and he remains grumpy with Kakarot because that's just how he is), but in the end he is now focused on just being the strongest *he* can be. The fact he's getting so many new powers and techniques that Goku doesn't have also helps to show that change in motivation. At this point, besting Goku is a journey, not a destination.
Vegeta has been developing for so long and there's still more for him it's fantastic
What if suggestions:
1. What if Katas (the father of the nameless namekian) went to earth alongside his son?
2. What if King Cold was revived instead of Frieza?
3. What if Tao appeared in the androids saga as part of Gero's army and got upgraded?
4. What if Towa, Mira and Fu appeared in the Buu saga and were under Babidi's command alongside Dabura?
5. What if Cui, Zarbon and Dodoria turned good?
6. What if Tarble and Turles appeared in the saiyan saga?
7. What if Zeno was more mature?
In some ways yes, in others no. One of the easiest ways to see this is through his (and Goku’s) outfits. Vegeta’s outfits throughout z had a habit of decreasing the amount of saiyan armor over time going from the full outfit at the start to ending with nothing but the spandex and gloves with a loose fitting muscle shirt. At the very end, we see him drop the saiyan armor completely, opting for a normal earth attire at the tournament. This is symbolic of him becoming less of a pure warrior, and beginning to become more human and caring. Goku’s is less prominent. His is much more focused on his Kanji changing with his master, to him eventually dropping the Kanji, showing that he’s the best. At the end of z, his outfit changes to a blue showing that he is transitioning to his new role and arc as a master to the next generation.
Vegeta’s entire arc beforehand was about putting aside his pride to work with others and accept that he isn’t the strongest. Meanwhile Goku’s arc since the Beginning of Z was solely him growing stronger as a fighter.
Super had to shoot up the power scale and introduce entire new concepts to keep Goku’s arc going. Vegeta’s arc was completed though, so they had to push him back a bit.
The problem with Goku is that he’s become nothing but a sliding power scale with a stagnant character. How many times is he gonna let his guard down and be defeated?
I will agree, the problem with Vegeta has been remedied a bit with the latest arc’s focusing less on his pride or need for power and more on his family and redemption.
No and yes. DBZ Vegeta is the best Vegeta BUT in super they’re making him his own character. Not “the guy who only wants to surpass Goku”
Like he literally pulled a Goku an learned his instant transmission an told Goku he wasn't gonna use it again cause he doesn't like using his moves
The regression in his character bothered me of course but there were some standout moments that felt in line with his Buu arc characterization, like him dancing for Beerus to protect everyone and sending his energy to Goku in the ToP. That said, I really disliked when they basically repeated moments again for the sake of "development" that already happened (which was an issue with multiple characters, such as Piccolo). He did the final explosion again in the tournament of power and it was pretty much the same as the original scene except he didn't die and the heartwarming speech beforehand was gone and replaced with a different one. The Moro arc handled him the best in Super, like you said in the video.
What do you think it would take to make Vegeta more interesting?
Hands up if you've had a powerful moment of revelation about yourself and life, only to find that understanding and living based on that revelation isn't always natural or possible, so you revert to how you were prior to that revelation. 😅✋
10:31 I like when he said goku used a watered down version of the hakai.😂
Fr that was hilarious 🤣 LOL
I say they ruined Vegeta in dbs after the "you're number one" speech that Vegeta gave in the boo saga
True
Honestly at that moment, it seemed like Vegeta gave up rather than accepting it. He only truly accepted that fact in Super.
That speech is different in the dub than the sub watch the original
Well calling him number one isn’t even true because broly is stronger than him
I agree
Agree entirely. Seeing Vegeta doing his own thing and learning different stuff from Goku is always good to see.
Toyotaro does a great job giving us bromance
Goku and Vegeta are buddies and I love every second of it
This is why I like vegeta in z and even GT but it’s super it’s like he came back to his android saga counterpart and yes I am a fan of vegeta
I like GT vegta cause in the GT timeline he truly stopped caring about surpassing goku he still trained to better himself but it had nothing to do with goku but he still did have his rivalry with goku but not like how it was in Z and super
Indeed although when goku went ssj4 He was kind of obsessed but not as much
@@kingkilla777 i mean vegeta really did nothing in gt except getting his body stolen, get ssj4 after goku and fuse with goku. Vegeta's character in gt follows the anime version from the buu saga since they made vegeta's speech a serious moment but in the manga vegeta's speech was kinda getting clowned on with a gag fight.
I mean there was an episode in GT that he wanted to surpass goku or just be equal I think it’s because of the transformation but that doesn’t mean that he wants to be stronger or want to kill goku
They kept having him point at himself while giving him nothing interesting to do.
Vegeta NEEDS a kill against a main villain. Not some background help that gives the edge to the main character. This would only further his development and give him some much needed shine. He's been in the same spot forever it seems. They'll give him a power boost, only for him to get annihilated by the main villain so Goku can whip out a new transformation and get the W. The formula is predictable and needs to get mixed up. They gave Gohan a win a couple times, Goku always gets the win in the end, but everyone else is just there. You could effectively write out Vegeta and put in Gohan and the story wouldn't change at all. This is obviously a huge problem with not only the story, but the characters. Everyone that isn't a Saiyan gets the shaft.
Well sure jirens a thing but god toppo stronger than 99% of the guys gokus beaten and vegeta beat him
Well he is compared to jiren lmao
What if goku black left goten to die alone after killing everyone else in the timeline where zamasu steals goku's body
your super good youtuber thank you fordoing these
Vegeta has been and will always be my favorite
Your right about him getting a win every once in a while it's just it's like vegeta gets his ass kicked almost every time new villain comes around and your right sometimes it changes but most of the time after vegeta gets beat and Goku comes to save the day that's my problem they could at least make the storyline a bit more interesting
If you look at the Kanzenban ending of Z, Vegeta changed his mind there too. 15ish years before Super. To me, this is more accurate because it's showing why he changed his mind in the end of Z in Super.
I feel this is something a lot of people forget when they complain about Vegetas characterization in Super.
I do prefer the younger Vegeta but he seems more childish and in moro arc it’s odd
in all honesty dbz was way better than super and to top it off the characters like gohan trunks vegeta goku and piccolo bulma had good character development.
I like how Vegetas end goal right now is mostly becoming strong enough to protect earth from any threat.. while goku aims to become the strongest fighter.. if they continue that it would benefit him greatly..
S.o.L. scenes in super were great like i never skip those things since just fighting gets hella boring.. i still want them to travel to u6 bonding with the u6 saiyans and all that...
Average Super God Fanboy Vegeta: ima surpass kakaroth aaaaaaaaaaa
Average GT Monke Enjoyer Vegeta: I am fine with my life and I wanna get stronger to surpass my limits, not to spite on Kakaroth.
I think the reason Vegeta went back to trying to surpass Goku is because of what happened in Battle Of Gods. For a moment he surpassed Goku. In random with Goku losing to Beerus, I think that’s what relit the flame.
It’s him realizing maybe Goku being stronger than him isn’t as set in stone as he thought. Though I think Goku mastering Ultra Instinct put him back into the mindset of Goku being Number 1.
I completely agree actually, even though I didn't with everything at the start of the video.
I would love to see a video about DBS Goku’s character too
We already know that one person gonna be like goku stupid and all that
The only Vegeta I've seen was DBS Vegeta, I have no access to viewing Z I only know a general summary of it pieced together by many "what if" videos and TH-cam clips.
and despite that he's my favorite character besides Frieza and Beerus.
it’s not even about “character development”, he just acts so weird. he used to be so badass with his intros and serious demeanor but in DBS he just keeps making a fool of himself, that dance scene made me turn off dbs and never watch it again, compare it something like his humor inside of buu, now that was peak vegeta when he wasnt serious
Deadass, he’s just being used as a Comic Relief at this point.
The bingo dance scene was to show that he wasn't as ignorant as he used to be and gave up his pride to do a fucking dance, and was also used to show how built different beerus was that he was so strong that even vegeta would resort to doing a thing like that
Read the moro arc if you want actual development as moro arc in my opinion is dbz tier and granola arc has been really good
While I don’t really care about the “Vegeta has never beat a main villain argument”, I do agree with the discontent towards the character regression of Vegeta from the Buu saga to Super
The Cell saga did have Vegeta claim to not fight anymore, but in a cutscene in the DBZ: Kakarot game, it shows Gohan indirectly reinvigorate his motivation to be stronger. I don’t know if that’s considered canon, but I think it’s something worth acknowledging.
However in the Buu saga, Vegeta basically had a separate mini arc within his larger arc over DBZ. He intentionally regressed to his merciless Saiyan Saga personality through being possessed by Babidi. Then ironically, he comes to appreciate his family while a Majin, and giving up his life to protect them (even if it was in vain). And then by fusing with Goku and witnessing goku’s superiority against Kid Buu, he acknowledges it.
Even GT did more service to his character than Super really, in terms of keeping to his Buu Saga speech. He no longer strives to surpass Goku, but just get stronger. And even once he finally got on the same level of power as Goku (going ssj4), he’s the one that suggests fusion, showing that he has grown.
Now, Super did do a good job in taking his character in a different direction. Keeping a rivalry with Goku without it being 101% hate boners, along with having a (relatively) healthy connection to his family. But it ultimately cheapens the impact of his character growth through (at least) the Buu Saga, if not most of DBZ.
For me, Super didn’t RUIN Vegeta’s character, but it did cheapen it.
I gotta disagree. Vegeta is a very different character than he was in Z but it’s not a bad thing. He went from villain to anti-hero to being a straight up hero while still keeping his arrogance and Saiyan pride
what if idea : what if krillin trained with king kai after he got killed in dragon ball
You should do a what if chi chi wanted the son family to train
I really like these type of videos keep up the good work 👍
We need what if salad was in db part 5
Vegeta didn't back track on anything
Having a healthy rivalry against someone is not at all for living for and being obsessed with being stronger than them and doing it by any means weather you have to off innocent people, forget about your family and protecting your friends etc like in Z before he admitted Goku was better
My friend saw the part of battle of gods where he starts dancing to calm beerus down and immediately swore off super, claiming it ruined Z and Vegetas character forever.
Hope its a good talk mr salad sir
Pls do a What if goku landed at Zeno world (while his father bardock sended baby goku to a world called earth his space pod struck with a black hole and his space pod glitched out of reality somehow and he ends up in Zeno's world as a child still then Zeno asks grand priest what the noise was and grand priest finds goku's space pod then tells zeno and zeno likes the child and told grand priest to train him and you can add other cool stuff on.
I think Vegeta can still have a rivalry with Goku.
I love that they've gone with the ultra instinct Goku and GoD Vegeta. The overused Vegeta catching up to Goku on transformations was getting so bland and a waste of a great character
Nah Goku probably had it worse than Vegeta in terms of his character in Dragon Ball Super........
Agreed i still like him but I think they made him too carefree he's always been a carefree person but I think they upped it to much.
@@kingkilla777 if you watch the sub instead of the dub you'll know not really
He was always a carefree dumbass. The funimation dub just made him superman. In fact, he acted exactly like he does in super in the sub of dbz
@@Not_Claptrap no he doesn't. People love bringing up the "He acts exactly like he does in super argument" but he literally doesn't. Z Sub Goku apologized for being a selfish husband, when has super Goku done that? Outside of ultra instinct, when has Goku acted serious enough to threaten the supreme kai or when he was convincing Vegeta to fuse by telling everyone he loves his dead?
Goku getting mad at black means nothing compared to the multiple rage and anger moments Goku had against Frieza.
Oh yeah, nowhere. Feel free to ask for more examples when Z Sub Goku doesn't act like Super Goku. I'd also bring up the movies but you're probably gonna go "dur noncanon"
Also you DO realize that an anime isn't just words and people can look at Goku's ACTIONS in the anime and not just the dub?
@@joshgroban5291 y'know goku was serious throughout most of super right? And technically goku did apologize, he apologized for the tournament of power even happening. Plus is super he really wasnt much of a selfish husband to begin with. Goku was always the guy who was carefree unless his life really did depend on it, like in the case of supreme kai getting threatened
Vegeta is ruined with the Bingo dance scene, and his failure to make omeletes, its obvious he's getting out of his way to do these stuff, even i he lost his pride, he shouldn't lose his dignity.
Buddy Have You Seen Vegeta Cook Anything On A Stove
@@XJSPlays02
he can't crack an egg, yet he thought he could make a god-worthy meal, humilated himself to try, and humilated himself even more by failure lol
Honestly I don't think so! But at the same time it Varies
Interesting already
They ruined Vegeta’s character by doing the same story arc again with him and doing scenes just for nostalgia i.e. the Final atonement again against vs Toppo.
I wouldn't say that scene ruined anything, but it shouldn't have been there.
Yeah, the Final Atonement bit was rather out of place, but sort of fitting when juxtaposed to Toppo. Whereas Toppo sacrificed his morality and everything he stood for in order to gain the God of Destruction form for power, Vegeta did the opposite and stood his ground, remembering what he's fighting for (his family, the Earth, etc) and why he continues to fight for it. It's a rather good moment if you look at it with that lens.
I think Vegeta's character was at its worst when he fought Moro.
Like Piccolo talked about how much Vegeta has grown as a person in Chapter 62. Why bother bringing up the obvious, Piccolo? You already talked about this during the Buu Saga when Vegeta sacrificed himself. Vegeta himself even touched on this during his monologue while Goku was fighting Kid Buu.
Then towards the end of the chapter, Vegeta says to Moro, "I'm naturally bound to go to Hell. At the end of the day, I'm a villain. I've been preparing for the consequences for some time. I'll say hello to you when I'm down there."
It's extremely bullshit and I absolutely hate it. It's Sonic fanfiction levels of edginess. Porunga literally restored Vegeta back to life because he saw him as a good person. It makes Vegeta look self-depreciating and almost gives him an aura of low confidence in himself.
the final atonement goes well with the vegeta vs toppo fight, it's no where near ruining his character, the super anime did pretty good when handling vegeta's character can't say the same about the manga
Love the video
The one objection I have here is the false equivalency between Goku and Vegeta's performances in Super.
ROF: Not only did Goku get the kill on Frieza, he was also the one to get the big fight with him and wore him down, meaning Vegeta was pretty much just doing Goku's dirty work.
Universe 6: Sure, he didn't outright beat Hit, but he did get the big fight and he was the main reason Universe 7 won.
Zamasu: In both the Anime and Manga he's the one to get the big solo confrontation with Merged Zamasu, even overshadowing Future Trunks in the Manga, and he was the one who was friends with Zeno and had the Zeno Button, so he was responsible for Zamasu's erasure.
ToP: Not only did Jiren pretty much just treat him like an appetiser while Goku was the main course, in both the Anime and Manga he wasn't even one of the last three people fighting Jiren, and Goku had the majority of the big climactic fight that wore down and beat him.
Broly: Broly knocked away Vegeta with one punch so the majority of the solo fighting was against Goku. Then again I'd say this was the most justified time for this as the focus was more on Broly than Goku.
Moro: This was the worst case of them all as Goku was mostly just a side character for most of this arc with no real buildup of him being the one to beat Moro. Much like in the Android saga, Goku wasn't really a major focus and there was more time spent on hyping up Vegeta, and Goku had the jobber loss before Vegeta came in to save him. Unlike in ROF Vegeta even actually does more to defeat Moro than UI Goku did and the whole of chapter 61 was spent with the side characters praising Vegeta as the top dog. Then Moro gets a shitty looking new form that negates everything Vegeta did to win and that's the end of his contributions. They even have Goku get defeated yet again by Moro's ultimate form in a situation that seems perfect for Vegeta to take the win, but nope! Vegeta plays the role of a sidekick and just powers up Goku so he can use a megazord and win anyway.
In every single arc of Super, Goku is either the main one responsible for the victory or he beats the enemy outright. While Goku IS meant to be the main character and #1, Vegeta is meant to be his rival, someone who can provide just as good of a challenge as the villains, and yet he's a _distant_ second to Goku to the point where he acted as a sidekick by the end of the Moro arc. Vegeta did deserve a win (especially against Moro and Frieza), so that he actually looks somewhat competitive to Goku. If you want Goku to just be the unchallengeable #1, that's what GT is for as that's the series where Goku's story reaches its end. Super is meant to be the show where there is a sense of competition among a lot of the cast.
Crazy to think vegeta’s misuse is debatable while thinking gohan wasn’t misused
Man this is the only thing I didn’t like abt dbz in total, goku always has some random plot armour around him, like the writer is like, “hey! I think we’re missing someone, oh ye vegeta! Let’s make him 1% stronger and then let’s give goku 5 new forms to match up!” Like vegeta Is always forgotten, he always got second hand forms, (blue and blue 2.0 not counted), like, it was my childhood DREAM, to see vegeta and goku going toe to toe, but nope, goku is always levereged, yes goku is the main charector, but now, there’s a WAY too big power gap, any time vegeta gets close too gokus power, they give goku a thousand new kinds of power, like wtf
Tbh I say no they didn't ruin him. Unlike goku lol.
In super, vegeta may not be perfect but he's showing growth as a character. He's had some good moments, he's working and slowly getting better.
My issue with him is his lack of dubs when the moment calls for it lol.
Dragon ball super Vegeta is not bad just misunderstood he doesn't fight to be the best or to beat everyone he trains and fights to protect his family and the life he has I really hated the way they handled him before the Moro arc but I started to realise he wasn't the same Vegeta as in the cell or even the Buu saga he just wants to live his best life with his family and protect what's dearest to him
As I see it there are three types of anime watches
The people who just watch it
The people who just think some good characters are bad
And the people who just think some characters are are better or want to say this anime is better than that anime when it doesn’t matter we all watch anime for the same reason because we all love something the anime is doing to make us instead in it
I enjoyed this talk about you because i think dbs ruined goku like a lot
The only positive side I like about vegeta in super Is a family Man
No the super treatment is treating pretty well
I still feel like they could’ve gave vegeta some good dubs in super but idk
What da dog doing
I think gt Vegeta was better written he no longer trains to surpass Goku and become the strongest but rather to see how strong he can become similarly to Goku's modivations to train. And Vegeta calling himself an earthling with the pride of a Saiyan. And wanting to become earths protector with him calling himself earths protector and saying it's now up to him, trunks, Goten, Gohan and pan to keep up the peace after Goku leave with Shenron with Vegeta taking up Goku's mantel as earths protector/champion
If Vegeta is smart he can learn kioken and combine with super Saiyan blue evolution that would give him bigger boost or he can learn super Saiyan blue evolution 3
You should do what if Goku landed on planet yardrat
Well I agree with you for the most part when you were talking about Vegeta's training method and his backstory yes as well as a few of his attacks but the stuff that he learned on that planet Goku learn instant transmission that's not really extinctively his the earthlings can learn all those techniques too from those aliens all they have to do is show up and put in the time Vegeta is a very unique character I love the fact that he came from being a murderer to now being a great family man but he still has the one key flaw that makes him second place he always lets Goku dictate the terms of everything yes it looks like they're both arguing about who goes first but let's be real go cool a lot smarter than people get on credit for Goku sometimes be letting Vegeta go first just so he can learn what the enemy can do and he make it look like he's disappointed while he letting Vegeta do it and yes and certain situations Goku is a total idiot and Vegeta is smarter than him in those situations but in terms of battle Goku outsmarts Vegeta Goku doesn't have any common sense but he has really good battle sense except for when it comes to finally finishing off the bad guy but I like to think he sees the bigger picture and hopes that there's good in the enemy even when there's none and Vegeta on the other hand whether you been trained against your will brainwashed or tricked into doing something he goes back into his old ways and just tries to kill you💯😓😓😓😓
I know pure power is kinda worthless at this point, but it would be nice to see goku chase vegeta for a bit. Make him hands down strong and see what goku is like obsessing about it.
What if Vegeta kept wearing casual earth clothes?
Yeah that's what keep trying to tell people they say Goku always wins fights and he hasn't won a major fight on his own in a while at least the anime since Frieza.
Vegeta is close enough in power that giving him a major win is not only possible, but earned for putting up with Goku's shit.
Whilst it’s not vegetas show. He, easily bested a FP Moro, saved Universe 11 by eliminating Toppo to stop a 2v1 scenario. Saved the galaxy by draining planet Moros ki to expose the gem. Used forced spirit fission to fuel Goku with divine ki from uub to get the final assist on Moro. And learned Hakai. Not to mention achieving SSG without the ritual. He had incredible suspense built in the Moro arc with his instant transmission return.
He’s been slapped around and beat down just as many times as Goku has in the past few arcs in super some thirsty vegeta fans that think he’s the guy need to chill.
And is now getting the same mysterious treatment in the granolah arc with past saiyan and cerealian lore something Goku knows nothing of, man is shining
Just because he isn’t wrote as the main guy in someone else’s show doesn’t mean he is being done dirty or that the creators hate him.
Looks shame seeing Vegeta crying ,he should be glad he is the second strongest Saiyan
When’s what happen when cell won the cell games part 2 it got over 3500 likes
I beg you salad pls do a video about namekians
Toyotoro kinda ruin the end of the moro ark with goku getting another win and having no consequence with the death of merus.
But goku didnt even get the win? This ain't league of legends, if everyone else helps defeat him and I get the final blow I'm not the person who won, everyone else won as well
Why the hell do you obsess over wins.
@@lordraiden7397 Honestly i really dont think its important how many wins a chracter has I dont mind at all but I would like other chracters to get a chance to shine besides just goku and vegeta we haven't see too much off gohan but we do know that he has been training using a gravity chamber he stated that in the moro arc I guess what I'm saying is personally I want the others to get more screen time they don't even have to win a fight i just wanna see them in action more. Cause I think both goku qnd vegeta get alot of screen time obviously cause their the main chracters but still.
@@kingkilla777 Gohan narratively shouldn't have this much screentime and this point in the series. He missed his chance before and to do it now would be disingenuous.
Vegeta character arc end in Buu saga
Gohan character arc end in cell saga
Goku character arc end in frieza saga
Piccolo character arc end in saiyan saga
And dbs has nothing to do about character development
Vegeta is my favorite character
Goku was more mature in Z vegeta at the end of z and during gt is much better
Vegeta indirectly calls Goku the strongest or relatively. When some beats Goku he’s like “they beat Kakarot? 👀😬😮” like he’s saying if Goku can’t beat em imma have a lot of trouble or probably can’t at all.