Elden Ring's DLC Feels Disconnected
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 ต.ค. 2024
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Just some of my thoughts/ideas on how Shadow of the Erdtree could have been better connected to the base game of Elden Ring. I love the DLC, but I couldn't shake this feeling of disconnection. Let me know how you feel!
#eldenring #gaming #shadowoftheerdtree
It's been 10-minutes and I've already seen several comments on the Scadutree Avatar having 3 phases. Yes, it is 3 phases. But to me, it feels like the same thing 3 times with not much difference. Almost like I'm fighting 3 different avatars than 3 different phases of the same avatar. Hopefully that makes sense 👍
Totally agreed. That fight had 3 health bars but not 3 phases. Phases are changes in boss behavior/tactics/moveset and don’t really have anything to do with the health bar. Most bosses have at least 2 phases on 1 health bar so health bar obviously is separate from a phase.
@@agtjake Personally I'm more than fine without three phase fights. They're a fun gimmick in moderation, but not something I've ever looked forward to per se.
I feel an easy way to fix this is give the avatar 2/3 heads and have it lose one each heath bar, makes it have less weak spots and feels like your wearing it down. If you go with 2 heads, the third phase could be very cool having no massive weakspot, but the creature feels as if it's getting desperate and using whatever it can to survive.
@@DeepDiverRock but he does? Phase 2 has him charging and couple other root based moves.
Phase 3 he gains the huge explosion aswell as a variant of it where he exolodes 3 times in a row.
I'd argue that it just barely meets the requirements to feel like different phases. No visual change, but phase 2 gives it the slip n' slide attack while phase 3 has the holy nukes
Basically, the DLC feels like it needs a DLC
So true, couldnt have said it better
I kept telling myself, “there’s more story here.” But I thought that was an unpopular opinion
Exactly
Yup the dlc felt so strange especially the placing of locations and the overall lack of actually glueing the story together to the base story’s lore in a impactful way.
So true, there was so much starting to connect but a lot of it never really did. The end after the final fight really did leave me feel like it all stopped cold.. there was something, the lands of shadow were important for some reason but we are never given a hint or thread of how. A final cut scene with touch of the gate or something could have been so impactful
Imo, the strangest thing about this DLC by far is that Melina wasn't included at all. Her role in the base game is mostly to provide peeks into Marika's backstory, and then we go to Marika's homeland - a place where Melina's own brother still rules - and we're supposed to believe she has nothing to say about it the whole time?
she's dead... the dlc functions on the basis the player has already become Elden Lord... and the "cannon" ending is the golden order one, where u wife Marika or smth
@@superbig947 but it doesn't. It assumes you are striving to become the Elden lord.
@@superbig947 It's not. The DLC is vaguely set after we kill Mohg and Radahn both, meaning that depending on how you do, it can be WAY before we burn Melina. If they actively wanted her to be dead at the time we play the DLC they would've made so.
@@CopperIron It does, though:
-Messmer wonders why Marika would make a Tarnished the Elden Lord.
-Leda Boss fight and comments from NPC's like Freyja's surprise that you're Elden Lord, commenting on the birth of a new one (Radahn). Hornsent's accusations that you, as Elden Lord of the Erdtree, should face consequences or smth along those lines.
-Ansbach's request that you become an Elden Lord for the people instead of the Gods since you're a Golden Order Lord.
That's kinda my take on it tbh.
Maybe Melina couldn't enter the shadowlands because u need Miquella's "guidance" to enter? Like, every NPC that got in was "guided by Tender Miquella"? Those speculations don't sound so far fetched, and yeah, the game assuming you're elden lord already can be a bit of a stretch tbh... lol
@superbig947 yes...and no. While Mohg and Radahn are required to enter the dlc, it's stated that this story plays adjacent to the base game.
However, the point that you enter is determined by you. You could've gone in the moment you killed those bosses, or waited until after Melina burned the Erdtree.
It's why Godwyn wasn't a focus in the dlc. The timing is too complex, and forcing it would've revealed too much.
My only gripe is story implications. This place has huge connections to everything in the main game, and yet, no dialogue, no new ending, not even a chance to ask Mesmer some questions or something lol. Not even an idea on how the scadutree exists.
Same with the erdtree, it born from countless deaths
@@cardgameenjoyer7446right but like we need more than that! It’s easy to infer that this tree had the same origins as the erdtree, but we don’t know for sure. I personally want to know why it looks like there are 2 trees there, and it’s just never explained
@@Hayden-pg4ogit’s a warped and fucked up crucible tree in all likelihood.
@@Hayden-pg4og You will never get that info. Fromsoft has never been forthright with info like that.
not a single soulsborne dlc have a new ending, all are in some way they own world
The lack of additional lines is such a disappointment, even the final cutscene was basically the same exact speech Miquella already gave in the intro and phase transition cutscenes. It offered nothing new.
Fr like I got it they made a vow and radahn promised to be his consort. It was pretty clear from the name "promised consort radahn"
what bothers me the most is that he doesn't have any dialogue mentioning malenia or anything related to her
@@overdadeiroPepsiMan He gave thanks to his loyal blade and that’s it, just one line.
@@Mario-SunshineGalaxy64y
Yea, that memory was pretty disappointing. Could have instead been one of him ascending.
It was baffling to me that those two finger bioms in the dlc are COMPLETELY EMPTY. No weapons, no armour, just a 1-2 crafting materials, leech looking cunts and two bells
Really feels like that freezing desert in the DS2 dlc
Keep in mind WHY they are deserted. The secret they hide. And how determental it would be to the Golden Order.
Yeah, makes sense why they feel empty.
@@usarker9369 facts!!!
@@usarker9369 not just the finger ruins, the dlc feels rly empty
I don't mind empty spaces, especially if its all atmosphere but man those finger ruins are HUGE. That's a lot of space dedicated to atmosphere with little payoff
Real
You are telling me that Malenia, the person who has been waiting for Miquella to come back to bring back the age of compassion........doesn't say anything when you are wearing her brother's crown after killing him?
The DLC was great but man the disconnect just feels so weird.
Tbf shes blind but youd think she whould feel the presence or someting atleast.
They actually lied too, as one of the devs said in an interview about the dlc that there would be a visual indicator IN the base game map of completing certain story points of the dlc. That's just completely false. Just like the removed cutscene where Miquella does something to the shadow tree. This dlc actually needs an investigation of what went on behind the scenes. Because this is the sloppiest storytelling fromsoft has EVER done.
@@dgalloway107 I’m sorry but shit like this is so insanely nitpicky lmfao. How in the world does that amount to sloppy storytelling
@@dgalloway107 100% sure they wanted to meet a deadline, started a lot of things that showed up in the trailers, talked about them, and then they could not finish it. The DLC is just unfinished.
@@dgalloway107really???
I mean I did notice that from the First Step grace in Limgrave there's a land mass in the water but I don't think that was intentional.
What this DLC lacks is how you can take Gale's dark soul blood to the painter in the painted world.
Except that was only for the Ringed City DLC, not Ashes of Ariendel. Most Fromsoft DLC is completely disconnected to the main game like this.
@@stephenjenkins7971 I disagree, they always make sure to get a little connection in the base game post-dlc:
- Sif recognizes you and makes the fight even sadder
- Vendrick acknowledges that you have obtained each of the crowns and gives you a "true ending" speech
- Gehrman can finally sleep free of nightmares and the doll feels eased after you take the weight of guarding the hamlet off her shoulders
- Yuria can feel that you've met her sister and the painter girl "starts a new universe" after the Dark Souls one has ended
Yeah they are tiny details, but just with that their DLCs feel a bit more connected and in line with the base game
@@grantopowell to that end many npcs acknowledge you as the elden Lord even miquella greets you like that...hell its the whole reason he's hostile
@@diveblock2058 Yeah but that's the other way around, where the DLC references the base game, which is almost a given since it expands on its content. But I think the point was how little of an effect the DLCs have on the base game... you know; people hoping we got another mending rune, getting to tell Gideon about what we learn in the shadowlands or speaking to Melina about her big bro.
This time we got no reference in the base game to the DLC whatsoever, making it feel apart
@@stephenjenkins7971I mean not true. Ds1 is connected by sif. Bloodborne is a nightmare realm so yes a little more disconnected. Ds2 is very connected to the dlc. Ds3 is an epilogue pretty much. So point stands there I suppose. However it’s more like a 50/50 split. This dlc as much as I adored it. Feels tacked on more so than the others.
This dlc wants to be taken at face value while functioning independently of everything surrounding it in the base game. It legitimately feels like at least a quarter of the dlc is still missing.
@@TKRepository Something that def feels missing is the fact you see a giant building with Scadutree sap dripping behind it. Go all the way there to find out what the building is and it’s…. Nothing but an empty chalice with scudutree fragments around it. Like??? What??? Is that all this is here for???
@@saintlusso2907 Omg I had this talking point written down and I just skipped over it. What the heck is that building? Feels so weird to not be able to interact with it at all
@@agtjake where is that building?
@@saintlusso2907 It's there to show that Marika's age of plenty, was right here, in the shadowlands. This was where the "erd tree" gave it's sap. All of those stories we read in the base game, were talking about this place.
@@imagod4796 it's behind the Shadow Keep, the Scadutree Chalice.
So glad someone finally mentioned no cutscene entering the shadowlands for the first time.
It is jarring and there should be a cutscene but in the grand scheme it’s not that important so that’s probably why.
Yeah. Like i asked about it and got insulted and called a hater for it lmao. Yeah it was on elden ring reddit but still.
@@draw2death421 Because that's a stu pid question, tbh. I understand wanting a cutscene for Rellana, but for entering the Shadowlands? That's a bizarre ask.
@@stephenjenkins7971 sorry that i expected a cutscene for that when we got one in Dark Souls 1, Dark Souls 3 and Bloodborne.
@@draw2death421 We didn't get one for Bloodborne. And for Ringed City DLC in Dark Souls 3 either. Let alone any for Dark Souls 2.
So you are expecting something that almost never happens.
I think that Elden Ring lore relied so much between relationships and connection that the idea of a separated DLC like always felt extrange, doesn't it? Like, that SotE felt more like a ""sequel"" rather than an extension or expansion, with their own rules, their own logic, and their own independ characters.
Indeed, what a shame
Agreed, it didn't feel like a companion piece to help fill in some of the blanks, it felt like a spin off.
Gideon not having any dialogue about the enormous lore we discover exploring the Shadowlands is just a flat out lost opportunity. Seeing Miquella at the end and telling Gideon about it should have been a pog moment for him.
Yup, but bandai forced them to push it out the door, its completely unfinished.
Probably because it would be hard or impossible given that you can enter the DLC very late or very early in game
Don't we kill Gideon before you meet miquella?
@@olivierr4232 it depends at what point in the game you start the dlc. If you want you can potentially beat Radahn and Mohg before even beating Margit and renalla let alone Gideon
Guideon: "Miquella is the only thing that remains a mystery to me"
Tarnished: "AND IT WILL REMAIN A MYSTERY BECAUSE I WILL TELL YOU NOTHING"
I'm so disappointed we didn't get a Cutscene of Metyr, The Mother of Fingers. She's the main reason the entire story happens and she has the most tragic backstory, she lost the connection to the Greater Will and we can't tell the lady we swap out the remembrances with, that the 2 fingers will never respond because the greater will left the lands between long ago.
A would've been so easy to add this simple interaction. Telling her this and she just expresses grave disappointment momentarily, Before urging you back onto your quest.
Saying something along the lines of: With how long and how bad everything has gotten it is not surprising
Actually good point. How does the finger grone not realise were handing her over metyrs rememberance?! Like... tbh i just lost a lot of respect for her lol. Her IQ is in the single digits now lol.
@@TommieTheCommie this would be great but the problem lies with the fact that the remembrance lady dies when you burn the erdtree, could only work if u kill metyr before finishing the base game
@@scottgnz I keep seeing this excuse as a reason for why interactions like this with Enia, or anything with Melina couldn't happen. That's a cop out to me because you could have easily killed Sif before finding him and killing Artorias in the past, and yet there's still a different cutscene if you do all that before fighting him. Just because a player can miss something doesn't mean you shouldn't add it, you can miss nearly everything Melina has to say if you don't rest at certain sites of grace before burning the erdtree, does that mean she shouldn't have dialogue at all?
Also, can we talk about the fact that we need to go on a massive fetch quest for Ranni to get the fingerslayer blade so she can kill her two fingers but we kill the mother of Fingers with a random weapon.
Melina - one line of text that vaguely referencing her (probably)
Melania - one line of text which gives 0 additional insight to her character, doesn't give a single shit that you killed Miquella, and vice versa
Gideon - literally doesn't give af about Miquella apparently
Torrent - idk maybe spirit raisins give some insight, maybe specimens in the specimen storehouse too, but both of those are major stretches
Ranni/Rennala - don't give a shit that you kill their aunt/sister, nobody else does either apparently
Godwyn - literally nothing outside of his faces in catacombs and a minimal reference to him in the death knight armor
Nothing in the frenzied flame questline changes or reacts to you killing Midra, THE LORD OF FRENZIED FLAME
Romina - literally a boss with no explicable lore apart from she was present during the crusade and the bud had something to do with scarlet rot
The trees - got pretty much nothing about the trees (Haligtree, Scadutree, Erdtree), which are pretty much still big mysteries
The crucible - also pretty much nothing (edit, we actually got a decent amount of crucible lore from devonia's gear, the talisman of all crucibles, potential implications from Bayle using crucible arts, and the consistent names of the crucible knights representing those of geological periods irl)
The badlands - nothing
Yeah, it's absolutely crazy that the DLC was THIS disconnected to literally every single one of the unexplored plot points that we were itching to have explained by the DLC.
IMO the only good lore we got from the DLC was the dragon lore, a bit of the finger lore, and Marika/Messmer. Miquella's story in the DLC was unfortunately quite shit and everything else gave literally 0 concrete answers or just useless info that leads to nothing.
@@flamingwayz7964 what's stupid is that I don't think we'll ever learn how exactly Miquella learned about the Lands of Shadow. Ranni seems to be one of the most knowledgeable characters in the game and was potentially alive when Messmer was at Sellia; she didn't even know anything?
Also the fact that the Lands of Shadow were sealed off at a later point makes the fact that there is *zero* mention of them in the base game kind of a massive oversight imo.
What we got to fill in the blanks feels like trying to shove square pegs into circular holes. Someone said the DLC makes the entire story worse and I kinda agree.
Melina never say anything about Messmer after the dlc
how the fuck did this garbage beat witcher?
@@skam-incognito because people are Fromsoft dickriders no matter what. This is their weakest DLC imo in terms of world design, bosses, and lore. People talk about the size and it's like....didn't we already establish from the base game that bigger does not automatically mean better? The ER base game felt like a cohesive world; the DLC feels like a bunch of random areas mashed together that are largely empty for no real reason. I was hoping they were going to have a larger focus on legacy dungeons and less on the open world - because they stated as such in an interview. The lore is an absolute mess too.
@@flamingwayz7964 i loved the experience of the DLC but this comment is based asf
I think the lack of malenia addressing us killing miquella, the lack of gideon's acknowledgement of us killing miquella, and the lack of any appearance of melina in the land of shadow are the only examples that actively hurt the experience
I just destroyed that twink and gideon is still yapping about the fackhin cocoon and gives me a cookbook that’s only good for wiping my behind
How do these niche interactions not being there hurt the game? None of From’s DLCs have done things like this, aside from *one* example in Bloodborne that everyone keeps referencing.
@@ClydeNut it's jarring and inconsistent with their characterisation in the base game - especially Gideon, who has two rewards for you telling him the whereabouts of miquella and the haligtree
@@platypipope328 Yeah, it's so odd how base game, there aren't any more interactions or how disconnected SOTE is from the Base game.
you can't tell anyone about what happened, no character from the base game makes any remarks.
The only interaction you have in the base game is talking to leda in mogh's arena lol
@@ClydeNut DS3 DLCs all have interactions, you're forgetting that
My issue was the lack of cut-scenes or dialog with the bosses. You kind of just show up the, kill the boss, done. Makes them have less presence and character. This sucks knowing that most of these bosses are really hard, yet they don't have that classic opening of "im gonna kick your ass for a couple of hours"
Yeah, it makes the fight more memorable, considering that those are remembrance bosses, why not add one?
Divine beast had one, messmer had 2, midra had one, radahn had 2, bayle doesn't need one as his build up and presentation makes up for it, rellana definitely needed one, romina too, putrescent knight doesn't need one, scadutree doesn't need one as the water going out from the shadow keep church district in itself was a cool cutscene and adding too many would ruin the game, gaius is basically a mini boss and he of all should never ever have a cutscene because he sucks and metyr has a really good build up and doesn't need a cutscene...I honestly don't know what yall are whining about here..
@@Based1889 well, i mean rellana romina
This was the weirdest thing to me, someone who doesn’t follow the lore really. So many boss fights I thought were minor bosses because of this and then I end up with a remembrance at the end haha
@@Based1889rellana really needed a cutscene
I'll probably catch some flak for this but to me the DLC didn't feel simply disconnected, but half-finished. The lack of cut-scenes and voices for some of the bosses, the way certain cutscenes promoted by the trailers simply didn't exist at all... I enjoy most of what I got to play, but I never escaped that feeling that some very important things were missing. Granted, this feeling sent me on a feverish hunt through the land of shadow to find it, and the journey was also fun until I realized it was all futile. A good comparison would be if after following Milicent to the Haligtree we couldn't ever find Malenia.
Elden Ring itself is an unfinished game and im not surprised the dlc is similar - the cut content of both the main game and the dlc makes the game like literally better but its all cut for some odd reason.
@@AngstUrnacht Elden ring is made of ds3 cut content so.. not entirely wrong at all.. more right than you think not to mention covid.
well i can only think of 1 cutscene your referring too which was the miquella one at the end of the gameplay trailer , guess fromsoft though it was out of place i think it would've been too. it would be half finished if the content was just not there but it was fromsoft just cut it :) wdym when your referencing melania? what boss was mentioned in the trailers and cut that you were searching for ??
Nah speak your mind. Dont listen to blind consumerists
@@AngstUrnachtSay what? The base game was ever so close to PERFECTION
It just feels like Elden ring and shadow of the Erdtree just completely different games at least to me
Same
I thought for sure we would look through the divine gate and see the erdtree or the lands between. The suppressing pillar says it’s the center of the lands between. We should’ve been able to lift the veil and see the shadow realm from the lands between
One of the devs actually said in an interview that there would be some big visual change to the lands between after beating the dlc. But thats completely false, and the withered arm is literally the only connective tissue between the game and the dlc.
@@dgalloway107where did they say this? I never saw it but maybe they will add it in later if true?
I knew it was a long shot but I wanted to see if Melina’s dialogue would change if you had her invite you to the roundtable from a dlc grace. Unfortunately, not even sitting in Messmer’s boss room elicits a reaction. Would have been such a cool Easter egg
I loved the dlc but i still prefer the base game, the dlc feels so much disconnected, even the last cutscene was disappointed because they literally put the same in the trailer… the mother fingers was an easy fight (and optional) compared to the elden beast. And not only that but theres a lot of empy BIG areas without nothing like the finger areas, if you not do ymir questline there is no point of going down there at all. I liked most bosses but i agree that feels so disconnected
Yeah as I was playing the DLC I found myself wanting to play the base game more. I don't think I'll play the DLC again tbh.
I have to disagree the DLC imo gameplay wise improves every aspect of the main game.
@@AngstUrnacht speaking of gameplay i agree, but when i say i still prefer the base game im talking about the bosses and the world/lore in general, dlc gameplay of course is a game changing
@@packabowl3888 that’s fair, I honestly didn’t like Elden ring much compared to other souls games so I just saw the dlc as an appreciable but ultimately incomplete improvement. The lack of conclusion is very upsetting.
@@AngstUrnacht elden ring is my favorite but probably because was my first souls, after that i played ds3 and i liked a bit more the soundtrack and still think that the finals bosses in both dlcs are better than radahn, specially Gael, by far my favorite fight
I find it so weird how melina says nothing in the whole DLC
This is mainly due to timing. There's no way to know WHEN you'll enter the dlc. Melina could already be dead by this point.
Same with Gideon, the "allknowing", You kill miquella and radahn again and not a simple new dialogue
@@colvamoon6962she was for me.
@@THELOATHSOME_DUNGKILLER yeah, it's weird how you can't tell the all-knowing you just killed recently turned god Miquella and a reincarnated Radahn.
@@colvamoon6962 That's; pretty far from a reasonable excuse..~ Variable timing has never really stopped Fromsoftware from adding these things, in the past.
The one thing that I don't like about the dlc is how empty it feels at times. I know there are a ton of hidden things and the dlc is vertical but when I went back to the main game to grab a few things I noticed how much easier it was to get lost or find dungeons I never knew existed
Also I was disappointed that beating the dlc didn't add a new ending and/ or add to a few of the existing endings of the base game
A final dialogue recognizing what we did like on Ringed City or Artorias of the Abyss would had been nice.
We stopped a god from a mind controlling apocalipse for the sake of Marika...
The emptyness I half agree with. We needed at least SOME denser regions. I think that the vibes of some regions being empty works well but it falls flat without internal contrast.
@@samfish2550 if you complain about densitiyy never play zelda
@@jorgecarvajal5385 Zelda funnily enough would be more similar to base Game, but elevated to two or three. A lot, but a lot of copypasted content for all sides; puzzles, enemies, bosses, encounters,situations ... I mean It has like 5 or 6 bosses sometimes recoloured all over the map?
I Guess both companies has the issues of making maps too Big and then not knowing with what to fill in. But in Fromsoft defense, they did a much better work making interesting content than BotW and ToTK.
Godwyn mostly just really feels like an obvious bit of unfinished business. He can't be left to just grow out of control and to spread/consume all. And yea, a lot of the DLC bosses feel like they are kinda just there minding their own business until the Tarnished walks in.
@@videocrowsnest5251 fax
Yes he can, that's kinda his purpose now. In no FS game does the player character solve all of the world's problems. That has never been a thing.
I mean it's also the case in the base game.
Most bosses the only exception being Morgott, Godfrey and Radagon. Most are just minding their own business, most of them are doing something lore related and fighting something else.
The fact that demigods are borderline blissfully unaware of the spread of death from Godwyn is very odd.
@@BBoy4040 It isn't very odd.
Morgott was mostly very busy with responding to attacks on Layandell and being present in battlefield himself.
Rykard was attacking Layandell lost most of his people during battle with Morgott.
He also was busy with serpents.
Godrick was too trying to attack with no success and was spared by his brother hence he gives him gratitude for him helping later with Radahann.
Basically saving his life in gratitude he encouraged omens to join his troops.
Was also busy with Grafting.
Radahann was too busy with fighting.
Ranni was too busy because of Radahann either screwing her over or she asked him to stop stars to trap her own fingers on the moon.
Malenia was busy with Miquella.
Mogh didn't really care about golden order and did his own thing.
The only one who knew about Godwyn was Miquella but even he eventually abandoned him to pursuit something else.
I feel like the DLC not connecting or altering Main Gams wouldn’t be as much of an annoyance if SotE didn’t have so many aspects to it that felt out of place or completely missing. Like Romina not having a cutscene as a remembrance boss you already pointed out. It makes no logical sense and really frustrates me as like you said, she’s a really cool boss and probably my favorite beside Messmer.
But let’s not forget about the giant tower behind Commander Gaius that servers zero purpose other than to look cool when you first enter the DLC…. Like why??? I get it, it looks cool, but really? We cant have anything to do over there other than one boss battle, and a few fragments? Or the huge plateau area in the north you literally can’t access at all despite being able to see it on the map and with your own two eyes.
Theres also a big area behind midras mance that cant be accessed. I even went to reddit and asked about it, thinking i missed someting but no its just a large area you cannot reach no matter what.
@@draw2death421 I noclipped back there, its because its literally unfinished. They planned to let us go there, because they got halfway through making the floor geometry and adding grass and flowers and paths,different elevations, the works, only for it to literally end into void at a point, as if the dev making it was literally pulled off of the computer.
This dlc reveals that fromsoft needs to be investigated a little bit honestly.
@@dgalloway107This might be within the realm of conspiracy but I believe that’s effectively what happened in sort.
FromSoft has a history with sticking to their original release dates and probably bit off more than they could crew. If we assume SotE was actually intended to be the size of Limgrave as original stated, then we can assume the DLC got wayyyyyyy bigger than originally planned. Possibly resulting in lots of aspects being cut.
The 500 IQ play by them being not mentioning this really at all, and allowing players to only discover these discrepancies and missing aspects by the very late game of the DLC itself, far past the point of no return in terms of initial sales data, refund timeframes, ratings, and reviews, the whole 9 yards.
@@saintlusso2907 Which is a shame. Because I don't dislike what I played, I wouldn't have refunded. I'm sure some would have, but they definitely should have had some faith, and kept players in the loop. Experiencing these missing aspects in game is very disappointing, and hurts people's willingness to by another dlc/game in the future.
ya in DS1 one of the best moments is when sif recognizes you from the DLC. something like that would make all the difference
Exactly how I feel. The DLC is fine, but the story is just disconnected. Kinda shoe-horned in. And giving them the benefit of a doubt and say its "lore reasons" is kind of a storytelling cop out imo.
First of all, there is no connection with the main game. No Great Runes, no alternative endings, no items, not a sngle line of dialogue. All of that would require additional work on the main game, and it seems they were in a rush to roll out the DLC. Several things point out to this, such as the lack of voicelines or cutscenes for most bosses. And some mechanics that just make no sense, but maybe were intended to be something more but ended up being cut or reduced.
The Putrid Knight was datamined to be connected with the gloam eyed queen, but it ended up being merged with the St. Trina storyline, as the GloamEyedQueen got scrapped. The whole Messmer story does not fit lorewise, it feels he was concieved as a character post main game release, as they needed a memorable posterboy for the promot materials.
It just isnt landing imo.
The investigation into the making of this dlc would show that this is NOT the product Fromsoft wanted to deliver. They were forced by their publisher to cut 50%of their dvelopment time. It came out a whole year before it was originally going to.
@@dgalloway107 Oh wow, thanks for that. No way, that makes so much sense. It does feel so rushed, I thought I was just crazy. Do you have a source for that story by any chance?
@@dgalloway107I too would like this source because I'm genuinely interested in reading about that, because it does feel unfinished
@@chopsandtoots I have a feeling he's just making shit up. Cause if any of these interviews really went public SO MANY news channels regarding souls would EAT it up and make a ton of videos on it.
I would have liked a final cut scene or something most. After beating Radaquella it just feels anti climactic. Like little poot sound DLC done.
Would have liked to burn down or turn off the Scadu Tree and restore the shadow lands to the main map.
Also agree that a Madness Dragon giving Madness breath would have been nice.
Madness is absolutely useless except for pvp which is shit
@@buffoonustroglodytus4688 Right, but I like to use it. I Have different types of characters. I'd love a Madness Breathe for Jerry the Mad.
Frenzyflame is not useless in pvp or pve if you think it is you just suck at building casters.
@@dgalloway107bruh i have multiple characters the only reason to play madness is pvp and even in pvp its not optimal its in general just not as good as other builds. Thats why we call it dogshi
I found the fact that you could not use mesmer's kindling to burn the erdtree yourself and save melina disappointing. Heck the fact these two have no interaction at all despite the fact they are siblings is also disappointing .
That is are thing i can understand because it woulf lock you out of finsihing the dlc
The one thing I wanted, which was to feel like the Shadow Realm was, at least at some point, a part of the Lands Between like they built it up so much, I didn't get.
We know it was a part of the Lands Between because they hammered it on our heads so much, but honestly it doesn't feel like at all.
Because its unfinished, execs cut the support and forced them to finish it a year early.
An entire chunk of land was veiled during the golden order and we have no signs of it in the base game😂
@@bigsmall2842 Exactly, and when we find said chunk of land, we rip through it causing cataclysmic events that have absolutely no repercussion anywhere whatsoever
I find it strange that in the fight with Miquella his eyes are actually eclipsed, but they're closed the entire time in the fight. Almost like the attempt of Godwyns revival at castle sol, had an impact on Miquella himself.
Is very weird that they didn’t put anything at all, in ds3 we have Base game-Dlc interaction and DLC-DLC, we show Fried soul to Yuria and she will talk about it and we can give the blood of the dark soul to the painter in Ariandel, little interactions like those make the Base game and the dlc more connected.
Its because the devs were forced to prematurely end the project before they were finished. Go look at the first dlc trailer.
@@dgalloway107 can you make your point ? What im supposed to see at the first dlc trailer ? All i saw different is the dancer, instead of fighting her in the open fields we fight her as a spirit.
Only 3 minutes in rn but I agree with the gate of divinity, I got done with the boss fight and went over to it expecting something and when it was nothing I was like “seriously? Nothing?”
If there was going to be a second dlc this would be the entrance area most likely but they said there won't be for some fucking reason, Gameplay is fun but storywise fromsoft did not cook there's too many plotholes
A bunch of the weapons have weird stat requirements. There are six generic ghosts flame dragons, And only one ghost flame dragon incantation, There is no lesser and greater version of it like most of the other dragonbreaths have
No new magma Sorceries, no new aberrant Sorceries, 1 new death Sorcery that is and odd outlier amongst the rest of them, you just summon a swarm of misty "8" shaped objects that fly at the enemy
There is a dedicated incantation seal for the mesmer flame incantations but only 3 of them, where as blood flame has 5 and no seal
The aspect of the crucible wings is an ash of war for twin blades which is weird, A normal-ass knight, not a crucible knight just a normal mesmer knight drops it, I don't recall any mention of crucible nights using twin blades, It is also not a charged ability unlike the rest of them, You can't charge the ash of war, whereas all the crucible weapons and spells are charged
They added a talisman specifically for magma damage, And there's only like four sorceries that do that, And we didn't get any new ones like why, And from what I know currently not a whole lot of new magma stuff either, no weapons and such
Most dragon breath attacks have a lesser and a greater version, The lesser version is easier to aim and costs less fp and you don't float while casting
The Greater is a little hard to aim. But does more damage and allows you to float and jump while casting
There are six ghost flame dragons and the only one we got is called ghost flame breath and it is the greater version, The lesser versions are called named like this; "dragon fire, glintstone breath, rot breath, dragon ice"
@@TommieTheCommie I completely agree with what you’re saying, I always thought it was very strange to have 3 incantations and have a seal for them, why not just add more
only the front side is modeled even, its LITERALLY nothing.
@@dgalloway107 I can understand that the back of it isn’t textured. It’s not like we’d ever see the back of it anyways
The honeymoon is ending and the flaws are starting to appear
@@dankokamcevski would've loved Gideon having more dialogue regarding the dlc, hell they could've fleshed out the story more without having to add more actual gameplay...
the dlc ending felt so incomplete
@@comradetovarish7823 Somehow at the same time they fleshed out the story a lot - and still they didn't connect it well to the base game. Well, they almost didn't connect it at all. Whatever you do in the Shadow Realm does not influence practically anything in the Lands Between (Miquella is found but GIdeon says nothing; Miquella is dead but Marika says nothing; Melina is referenced by Messmer but she says nothing at all, etc.) It would have been SO COOL if the DLC allowed for an extra ending of the base game. That would have been really innovative.
@@dankokamcevski Considering even Dark Souls had a cutscene change (meeting Sif after saving them in the past), it feels remarkably lazy that Elden Ring has _nothing._ No boss dialogue, no cutscene change, no alternate ending. Really sucks.
@@dankokamcevski Nah. From software rarely adds any connection between base and DLC (best I can think of is slight change to Sif cutscene and a single new doll line? Both missed by 99% of players), and this is a good thing. From’s main games have a (cool) tendency of changing and degrading with story progression. Bloodborne goes to shit, everyone dies in dark souls, etc. it’s hard to balance (and pointless as no one would see it) a dynamic base game to a dynamic DLC. Take the Gideon point. For me and everyone I know IRL, Gideon is dead by the time they do the DLC. I mean, duh, just look at recommended levels. Most of my friends had the game beat. Top comment mentions melina??? The only way she isn’t burnt to death or ghosting you is if you fought Mohg BEFORE fire giant?? I mean come on.
And I know I know, from software is praised for hiding swaths of content behind niche interactions only 1% of players will find, but… never to that extent, especially when any effort in that regard would be better served towards the actual DLC. The DLC tells a story (everyone dies), the main game tells a story (everyone dies), and these two things obviously have to chronologically progress separately. I don’t see why anyone expected anything else.
@@catcollector719you only need to have killed Mohg and radahn to access dlc.. the DLC’s canon timeline is somewhere in that timezone, not endgame just because you and your friends have finished the game. Miquella even calls you “aspiring lord of the old order” and ansbach says “please become our new lord” which means you’re not (at least according to the DLC timeline) done base game yet
I know the dlc was never going to affect the base game but I was super bummed to find out that you can't affect the dlc based on what you did in the base game. I thought maybe the frenzied flame enemies would react to my frenzied flame but nah. I thought Messmer might react to any of his sibling's remembrances. I even thought the hornsent might react to the omen doll thing you get. But nope.
One theme from the base game that the DLC could have addressed is the Gloam Eyed Queen. I wanted to know if she is really Melina or not... It's a theme that intrigues me a lot, any key connection would be of great value.
After all, does Melina really have any connection to the Gloam Eyed Queen? Or is her talk of Destined Death and the purple eye just nothing? Did her creation of the apostles and nobles as serpentine beings, wrapped in a specific cloth, have something to do with the Mesmer? Or with Egley? Or with the empty snake skin? Does her channeling the power of a rune and being an empyria chosen by the two fingers confirm that she was a demigoddess? And if it is Melina, why does she have the black knives moveset? What is the relationship between them?
So many questions, it would be nice if the DLC could provide some answers.
Even St Trina feels empty, you die to her nectar 6 times only for her to reveal you need to kill miquella, which we were gonna do anyways…
Gideon saying you can’t kill a god after we just did.
That's because Gideon doesn't realize that we're a Demigod/Empyrean despite being Tarnished.
@@river7874 yeah. I meant it was just funny hearing it.
Gideon says a lot of shit. Just pure shit spills out of his mouth most of the time.
@river7874 that's just a theory, and not a particularly good one
@@Amartin-mu6oj More like cope than a theory.
"There are no 3 phases fights in elden ring"
Scabutree Avatar: .....am I a joke to you.
Everyone: Yes. Yes you are a joke to us.
I know Miazaki said the DLC wouldn't affect the base game, but I'm shocked there aren't even hints on dialogue with characters. For example, I played the DLC with a character that had completed everything in the base game and with a character that did everything up until Fire Giant. With the revelation that Messmer and Melina are likely siblings, I thought for sure there would be at least some extra dialogue with Melina, like there is with the doll after you defeat Lady Maria and Orphan of Kos in Bloodborne, but there's just nothing. I can't help but feel like there are little missed opportunities like that throughout the game
They rushed it out the door to meet shareholder demands, end of story.
@@dgalloway107 Fromsoft (like all "great" companies) has finally become a victim of their own success
I think this really goes to show that, fromsoft really needs to start improving on their way of storytelling. Not do away with the obtuse nature of it, but to give us more, especially more to go on. They went completely out of their way to create this fascinating lore, even getting george rr martin to pen the entire outline, just to hide most of it, which I think doesnt work well for elden ring like it did with past titles, and I also think people are starting to get bored or frustrated with it.
Just to clarify. I see fromsofts way of storytelling as, they give us a few circles that they fill in with some lore, then they have us connect the lines and try to put everything together ourselves but, I think they need to start giving us more circles so we have more to go on. There is so much of this amazing world I want to know, but they constantly withhold it, even with the dlc they didnt clarfiy much if at all, and the obtuseness is starting to become a meme.
7:28 I love when games do this, like how the bugs in the mantis village will bow to you after beating the mantis lords.
Even having all enemies lose hope or become more aggressive when you kill the boss would be amazing.
Imagine if we got to talk to marika and godwyn
Marika is cruxified and Godwyn is ultra fucking dead. Besides, it would make absolutely no sense.
@@sauronplugawy3866Doesn't matter, would have been cool to see.
Man I've been wanting to talk to Marika since the base game. Damn shame it never happened.
According to leaks about Elden Ring DLC, the story was rewritten within 4 months, prior to the release. You can clearly see something is out of place or weird, and the aftermath of a Titanic showdown with Radahn-Miquella, feels empty as fuck. "You get 2 head pieces after killing a God" ,bullshit. The stairs were never supposed to be broken at the Gate of Divity. Also, the giant Lord Vessel at the Scadutree base? Bruv, Fromsoftware had to deal with Elden Ring publisher BS even during the DLC development. Glad the sequel will be free from external interferences, leaving Miyazaki free to create more feet models.
There won't be a sequel.
The vessel at the bottom of the tree is to show that this was where the Age of Plenty happened. This was where the great tree gave it's sap. It wasn't actually in the lands between that era, it was right here.
There won’t be a sequel, Elden Ring’s getting the Dark Souls treatment.
@@thecrypticstenchhow do you know einstein? Ya got miyazaki in your dms?
Dont forget! The Godwyn knights definetly werent Mini bosses at some point. They can get Glowing Grace eyes! Only mini bosses who can get this are Drakes wich we can find as normal enemies and rune bears wich too are found as normal enemies.
They 100% rushed this and everyone trying to say they didint are coping harder than those wanting a 2nd dlc.
I feel like we're Missing something. On the north most part of the map behind shadow keep there's this massive structure and something called a scadutree chalice. When I first discovered it there was literally nothing there apart from some scadutree fragments. I felt like I was missing something so I went off to reddit to confirm just to find out pretty much everyone else is lost as well. Nothing has been discovered yet, but I can't shake the feeling that it has some sort of value to the game or the ending.
one thing that i wanted to see in final boss fight that if we have completed ranni questline ranni would come and help us like miquella does with radhan something like tarnished consort of ranni
In canon if you complete Ranni questline she leaves with you instantly when she became a god. Funny, but if Tarnished leaves with Ranni before he defeats Miquella it kinda means that Age of Stars will probably not even last for a week.
I think a really cool addition to the DLC would’ve been an expansion on St. Trina’s quest line where Trina task you with collecting all the pieces of Miquella from all the sites of Miquella and then returning them to her, giving her the strength to leave the Fissure.
Then you continue on as normal, defeating Radhan, but after the fight you’re giving the option to summon in St. Trina who proceeds to recombine Miquella into his original form.
Miquella then sees the error of his ways and apologizes for his misguided attempt at his age of compassion, giving you the option to become his Consort similar to the Ranni quest line.
This would open up an alternate ending where you can install Miquella’s age of compassion in the right way. It would also be cool if this option allowed you to go and fight Melania as normal, but after the fight summon in Miquella to finally rid his sister of the Scarlet Rot giving her peace.
Idk there are a lot of cool interactions this addition could add and i think it would be a lore accurate way to go about it.
That would be perfect
"Miquella sees the error of his ways" lol this aint Naruto bro
You see, Miquella is the avatar of players moralistically telling Miyazaki to make kind, easy, compassionate games for everyone, with difficulty sliders so that nobody is left out, and using the threat of violence (Radahn) to force him to do so (people are already starting to sue).
So there really is no redemption for Miquella. The point is that Miquella thinks his age of compassion is SO good and SO correct that he has the right to force everyone to do his bidding by brainwashing, coercion, and violence. You have to love Miquella, or you're evil. He's the very embodiment of the Paradox of Tolerance.
In order to make the world a kinder place, you have to aggressively force people to be kind.
Miquella truly is the most insidious evil and it's good that we can't side with him.
Disney ahh ending, this is a fromsoft game, your meant to fuck all.
That's a great idea
This Video makes me realise even more how much wasted Potential this dlc really is
Absolutely massive map, three huge legacy dungeons, 11 stellar remembrance bosses, dozens of smaller dungeons, some great lore despite some weird nitpicks, yet all you see is wasted potential?
@@ClydeNutStory wise it fumbled hard compared to the main game almost all major bosses don't even have an opening cutscene or dialogue it's like fighting a mini Boss even though the ones you are fighting are much more important to the story and especially the Ending even Old hunters had a better Dlc ending.The gate of Divinity should have been used more or at least interacted with
@@ClydeNut no its my 4th fav dlc of All time, its great and fun to play Mesmer is one of my fav bosses ever. But most of the fun in elden ring for me was listening to and crafting Theories and a lot of stuff just feels not necassarily unfinished but not fleshed out to its full Potential, like Melina and the Gloam eyed queen or Radahn feeling like the ultimate cashgrab and godwyn is just beyond saving wich is okay ofc it makes absolute sense but it feels like you could have done more with it and miquellas sudden Obsession with radahn Bugs me a lot too. I never really thought about it being that disconnected wich again is alright but it would have been so much cooler if it had more Connection to the base game.
havent watched the video yet, but i think the biggest problem is that they were so adamant about not connecting the base game to the DLC, but the DLC fundamentally connects a lot to the base game (marika's backstory, rellana, radahn/miquella etc.) and a lot of it feels forced/disjointed since its so relevant to the base game but they dont explain on it
Why don’t you people watching the video first. Are you that eager to give your unoriginal take in the comments? Jesus Christ
@@James-kv3ll 🤷♂
I agree, 100%. Everything feels so disjointed to the point it's downright confusing. It feels like "More Elden Ring for the sake of more Elden Ring". More weapons, bosses, dungeons, armor, spells, but ultimately, at least I, got a super bitter feeling of "Ok, so that's it?".
@@James-kv3llhe didn’t watch before commenting which is admonishable, however that doesn’t mean he didn’t play the game before hand. I agree with what he says for the most part. I really felt like a lot of the items were simply thrown in just to shoehorn in some backstory. For example; You have no idea about Radahn until the very end. You had 0 idea that Miquella had essentially mind controlled him until after you defeat him and learn it from the remembrance. It’s good to give lore in the remembrance, but when the lore is so unexpansive and bland it just feels unimaginative. Basically, Miquella couldn’t give Godwyn a true death and lamented him, he found Radahns strength and stoicism the perfect match for his ‘age of compassion’ nothing more. Nothing was even given about malenia, only that she apparently tried sending Radahns soul to Miquella, but that’s it. All of the descriptions are never long, but we usually have multiple sources for lore and this dlc just didn’t continue that tradition.
@@Hayden-pg4og what do you mean you have no idea about Radahn until the very end?
There's an entire questline that spells it out for you.
I literally did the ranni quest to find the little version of her because I was hoping that maybe she'd have something to say when you enter the shadow realm, safe to say I was pretty disappointed when she didn't have any dialogue options
The RPG in Dark Souls sucks
Whenever i go back into the main world it feels so much better than running around land of shadows
Even the frames 😂
The reason is I think because when they made this game, they didn't make this dlc with it, only scrambling to put it out after the strong demand from the Er community, this is why it took so long for the dlc to come out, the story itself seems like an afterthought like they put it together at the last minute, notice how theres zero refrence to messmer or the shadow land in the base game...
I personally wanted a prequel where we could see the land before godwyn was killed, before the shattering.
Any gloam-eyed queen context would be nice.
the whole "standing in arena waiting" for the bosses, i jokingly see like the Mandalorian jokes about Bo Katan lounging on her throne, seeing the main character, and going "oh crap" and getting up in a rush to fight as this rando walks through the mist at the door.
It felt empty. Especially the abyssal wood area with only 1 boss
We shouldn't have received the Miquella Memory, it should've been a Marika one. I took it as how he charms people is by giving them some sort of implanted memory, but we deserved either a true ending to the DLC or a new ending to the base game. Old Hunters didn't have a great ending like Ringed City, but it did give us a cutscene that basically said we settled Oprhan of Kos' sorrow and ended the nightmare by setting him free.
Even Gerhman has an interaction after you finish the Dlc he ends up finally being able to sleep without having Nightmares there's additional dialogue from the doll and Him
I love the old hunters ending. It was the only part of bloodborne where I felt I successfully helped someone lmao
"No 3 stage fights" Sunflower says hello.
I know Miyazaki said that the possibility for another dlc is low, but maybe the Divine Gate could be an entrance to the 2nd dlc in the same sense that we get access to the DS3 Ringed City expansion by either getting to Soul of Cinder in the base game, or defeating Friede in Ashes of Ariandel expansion. Perhaps it could be the same thing here. We get access to a 2nd dlc from the Divine Gate, OR for people who do not want to do Shadow of the Erdtree, another entry-way could be in either Farum Azula or Leyndell, Ashen Capital (2 very likely locations for a divine gate-way to be located, if anywhere).
A big thing I wanted to happen at the end of the dlc was Miquella breaking the veil obscuring the Realm of Shadow from the rest of the world. It would have been an incredible visual change in the base game, allowing you to see the entirety of the Lands Between, albeit ruined from the years of constant wars.
Another thing I wanted was Godwyn... We got extremely little for him. Oh well, perhaps if we get a 2nd dlc~
The only problem is that the last true story path to go down was concluded in this DLC, that being Miquella, Godwyn has his stuff in the main game, he even has an ending tied to him.
Who would be the big bad of the second DLC since all of the major Demigods have had their stories told through either this DLC or the base game? It would have to be another demigod child of Marika's, but why would they be behind the Divine Gate?
@@AceAviations2 Yes, Godwyn has a presence in the main game as the Prince of Death, but we never see him as Godwyn the Golden.
The big bad of the dlc could be linked to any of the enemies of the Golden Order that could still be around. People want the Gloam Eyed Queen, but i am unsure who would be the main focus.
Anyone else think that maybe the divine towers in the base game are the anchors holding up marikas veil over the shadow lands, and that by visiting each one to activate the great runes, we’re actually responsible for revitalizing the veil…
@@alldayscapegoat it’s acc sad that the lore in elden ring is so dry that acc good theories like ur have no evidence in game and all theories are basically just us finishing the writing for fromsoft which is so different from back in ds3 and Bloodborne
@@kingpen1844man I’ve been suspecting the same all along, what with the TH-camrs obsessively researching every nook and cranny, probably making up stories for things devs didn’t intend/missed/did on a whim.. I’m sure there must be a few popular theories where the FS devs go “we weren’t thinking of something that grandiose at all lmao , but thanks, lets just run with that then!”
It's so strange seeing a huge chunk of land covered like that. I wonder if there's someway to take it down. Like, in the story, how would one go about that. I feel that since Marika is gone, she's resting, her suffering is over, the land of shadow doesn't need to be hidden anymore. Also kind of feel bad about how our tarnished just walks in, takes out a bunch of characters and then leaves. How many lives did we effect and possibly ruin doing that? Sometimes I wish there was an option to reason with the opposition before fighting them. Then again I shouldn't expect that from FromSoftware
I wonder if we'll see another update like 1.03 which added Jar-Bairn and expanded several NPC quests. It's something they have done before, so it's certainly not out of the question to just get some new dialogue in future patches.
I hope so the Dlc definitely needs more attention to detail especially the bosses give them dialogue and a cutscene at least for Remembrance bosses
The DLC just made us realize that the puzzle we thought only needed a few more pieces to complete was way bigger than we could've ever guessed.
I absolutely agree.
It's like if you were playing another game. No mentions of almost anything found in the DLC on the base game is so annoying to me.
Even tho, still a great DLC, but not perfect.
They ran out of time and Bandai execs told them to get it out before the fiscal year ended. That's it.
They had two years to do this, Apparently at some point there was going to be two, but they smashed it into one.
@@TommieTheCommie bloody shame is what I call it.
Yup you can noclip behind midra's manse to see a half-modeled area where it looks like the dev literally got pulled of the computer mid-project.
@@dgalloway107really?
@@dgalloway107 yeah on the map you can see a lot more behind the manse that you cant access
I feel similar.... it does feel disconnected, I honestly much prefer how the land of shadow is connected together, and is all interconnected.... but it's really disappointing how they didn't populate the map with more loot, more things to explore and find. As for the bosses, I really liked alot of them, Midra, Myter Messmer, Rellarna, are some of my favourites. Although alot of the bosses are alot more aggressive than base game.
I loved this dlc, but a few things I was disappointed by... i find it hilarious that some few people are like "fromsoft have lost there way and are now bad" or something about a slight decline to them lol.
There are a few connections I have noticed, though not to the point of actual changes. For example, a specter in the Carian Study Hall alludes to 'the transgressions of the princess', which felt weird if that referred to Ranni as she did almost everything for Caria. However, it fits perfectly with a Carian Princess who rejected her birthright in the name of assisting an abandoned demigod...
I think it's a fair point to say that the DLC doesn't give enough closure. I don't personally think we should have anything change in the base game, but it would have been better if the ending of the DLC could be another ending to choose for the run. One where the tarnished chooses to rule over the Shadow Lands in Messmer's absence.
Maybe even one where a defeated Miquella is reunited with St. Trina and passes on into endless slumber. We could have actually had to collect all of the discarded parts at each cross as the key to unlock it.
3:30 You mention no Elden bosses having 3 phases but I would count the Scadutree Avatar as having 3 “Phases” no?
Yeah what i was going to say
@@drazzytime9353 You read my mind
Yea but it's a really dumb boss design amd too easy.
Fromsoft dropped the ball HARD with storytelling in this dlc, it still baffles me that people praise it so much
The dlc was super disconnected from the main game and i hate it. For example the 2 crowns of miquella, and St Trina could have had some new dialog added for them. For example, since sleep quells the frenzied flame, i realy wish u could have done something, with the nomadic merchants. Or miquella crown being used to help milasent.
Because its an unfinished product.
"the golden hippo is by far the worst boss on the DLC"
objection: senessax
There are quite a few bossfights with more than two phases. Radagon and Elden beast change up their attacks or add new ones after their hp drops to about half, godfrey gets an 'aura' after he loses 1/3 hp iirc. Midra technically has 3 phases if you count the very beginning - and there's probably a few more examples like this.
But none of these are as noticeable as a true 3 phase boss fight. Gael and Friede from ds3 were much, much more than these in that respect and it would definitely add a lot of someone like consort radahn got a 3rd phase to increase hype, or as you suggested with a miquella phase, make it feel more meaningful or emotional.
I guess invader npcs have 2 phases too then eh? They get more aggressive after failing to drink their flask again, so I guess that a phase 2 or even 3 according to that logic.
@@alfriendo2 Well, Consort Radahn has technically about 4 phases, only the changes are less substantial. After the cutscene for the second phase, once he reaches half health he uses his most complex combo. Then at like 25% he starts using the meteor.
It's more like Morgott than Godfrey.
@@Sinhsseax If we're talking about when they 'start doing a certain attack' then I notice that Bayle only does his tracking lightning on you once he reaches about 75%
@@dgalloway107I feel like your missing my point. Firstly, I'm trying to say that there are some 3+ 'phase' bosses in elden ring, but they usually go unnoticed due to being, well, unnoticeable. I agree that none of the examples I gave are complete phases by the standard of other multiphase fromsoft bosses.
However they're much more distinct than invasions that 'get more aggressive'. Elden beast for example adds several attacks to his arsenal, his ring attack becomes much longer etc.. I know Godfrey/Hoarah Loux is a stretch.
@@alfriendo2 Yeah, that's true.
I do feel like we have to count these things, because it does change the way you fight the boss quite a bit.
Bayle is actually a very good example.
Before he starts doing that attack you can attack his head pretty liberally, but once he does you have to watch out for the subtle movements in his body indicating the attack, otherwise he'll get you with the roar.
Maybe I’m not alone in feeling this way: that the end of mohg’s fight in base game felt exactly like consort Radahns fight-once it was over, the arena itself made me have so many more questions. I think we all ran around mohgs empty arena for way too long trying to understand wtf the egg hand situation was before realizing we would have to just wait and see. But. It doesn’t sound like there’s another DLC in the works 😅 so. Yeah a little bit of a bummer there to me
A very good morning to you I would love to see more content and more videos on this have a blessed day I will keep watching and following❤❤
Omfg summoning melania to fight miqiella is something i said since i first found out the final boss was radahn. Imagine the rematch of the eons with you there
No way Malenia would fight on our side. This is literally what she nuked Caelid for. Maybe Melina would since she did with Morgott
@@elseggs6504 on another note: a clueless player summoning Malenia for help only for her to side with Radahn and Miquella would be really funny.
Well it could work if Malenia was brainwashed. With questline when you help her meet Saint Trina, the Miquella best half, and Trina asks Malenia to stop Miquella.
The gate of divinity bugs me so much, I finished the dlc, and what do I get? ‚The friends we made along the way, (that are all dead)‘? Can‘t even jump a few feet?
what bummed me out was this dlc was so huge but it still left me feeling like i didnt get answers to my lore questions from base game and left me with more questions and now elden ring is done with no further dlcs planned.
It just felt so weird hearing about all the endeavors miquella had his fingers in (e.g. giving godwyn a proper death, stopping malenia’s rot, the haligtree etc.) and then *in the dlc all about him* these things either don’t come up at all or in the case of godwyn are only mentioned in side areas completely disconnected from miquella. Like, he had a lot going on but they did not utilize *anything* of that save for his charming powers. The complete lack of any mention of him and radahn in the main game makes it so confusing (and frankly lame, radahn already had his place in the main game so bringing him into this just feels out of place and cheapens the whole festival thing imo) when he turns out to be the final boss. "Radahn in his prime" is a sick pitch for a boss fight but as the final boss it feels narratively cheap.
I'm not sure if anyone else has noticed, but in the memory of Miquella at the end when he is making his prayer, it looks like a ring on his finger similar to the corpse in the cacoon.
I think the only things really needed are something after the final boss. And cutscenes or even voice lines for Rellana and Romina.
Most everything else seems more personal preference rather than something truly missing
Go noclip and look around the map to see all of the half-finished projects the devs were forced to stop on. Theres at least 4 full size areas that were beginning to be modeled for player traversal but they suddenly stopped and made these goofy ass bandaid walls over the former back door of midras manse for instance. This is not the product Fromsoft wanted to create.
Romina actually had unused voice lines in the files, someone posted the audio in another video. not sure about Rellana tho
Glad I’m not the anyone who feels this. I mean you can literally finish the game and become Elden lord and nobody cares. The game acts like you are still some well known tarnished but that’s it. I know it’s intentional by the devs but it just feels weird and that nothing you do means anything.
When you first playthrough the dlc: 8-9/10
When a week's gone by and you've had some time to think about it: 6/10
It's good but I agree with everything above. Not only does it feel so totally disconnected from the base game but everything too just feels so scattered and eclectic like half finished projects and ideas. Messmer was hardly what the advertising made him out to be and, lets be frank, everyone would have been happier to see Godwyn as the final boss. Miquella could have had some part in it, but ffs its just so second note in comparison to what could have been. Literally without the new lore hamfisted in with the dlc that 'Miquella was actually the bad guy all along' who would have given a shit?
godwhyn would have made more sence, we learn of how micqullea tried to cure or bring his soul back or give his body a proper death, radahn feels super random, and the dlc feels lacking in the spells and incantations, so many cool new spells used by enemies, yet we get random feeling and weak/un-tested ones, rain of fire, aspect of the crucible bloom
The aspect of the crucible wings being an ash if war for twinblades, that you get from a random knight, not even a crucible knight, this ash if war is an outlier amongst the other aspects of the crucible too, it's non charge, has no interaction with great spears like the crucible spear knights do, it cant be used with the crucible weapons
The putresence knight, It has too spells themed around it and they are seemingly deaths Sorceries, as they burn and inflict frostbite, Anr a intelligence faith split spell, But aren't boosted by the prince of death staff, And it's flames are purple, Ask cleaver being a seemingly a deaf theme weapon. It also inflicting frostbite scales with arcane, making it an outlier amongst its own spells.
theres a part of the reveal trailer where you see miquellas hand point towards the scadutree. when i saw that i thought that was part of the ending cutscene where he removes the veil on the shadow realm and now the lands are connected again. well that scene is not in the dlc so idk what happened in the 2 months between that and launch
Wanting connection in lore from a Fromsoft game?
"Put these foolish ambitions to rest."
Um, not, every other dlc theyve ever done has connected back to the game it came from.
Yea but this DLC is like abysmally disconnected, like it doesn’t feel even intentional it just feels bare bones unfinished.
Malenia doesn’t get affected at all by anything that happens here, like miquella totally abandoned here and killing him doesn’t affect her at all.
There’s like 1 piece of anti climactic Melina lore that confirms basically something we already know and that is, that she is Marikas child and basically Messmers sibling both in curse as well as paternally.
But that’s it, no mention of all the Gloam eyed queen lore, no new dialogue stuff that feels very much like it should have been there and atleast mentioned or answered answered.
The story feels like it’s supposed to play after becoming Elden Lord, but it quite frankly doesn’t which is a weird choice imo cause it feels more like a post game DLC.
Messmer is quite the well written character but his actual involvement in the Miquella storyline, is not there all he served as was just Marika lore exposition. Hell they even cut his only line mentioning miquella.
Story to say it, but this is and it genuinely hurts me to say it *Bad writing and world building.*
Im a typical sadist like any souls player but come on, more lore, impact on the world, npc character development and more dialogue amongst the npcs would have made the game feel less ....empty and boring alot of the time.
idk i love elden ring and souls likes but i just always finish these games angry because of the incomplete story they tell, theory crafting is all nice and good but i hate spending 50-60-sometimes 100 hours+ on a game and we still have to theorise 60-70% of the games story because FromSoft creatively cant or wont tell a full story.
Everyone has said it. Golden child Godwin revived in moghs omen body could have been the perfect final boss
I mean, I kinda felt like being "disconnected" is the purpose of the whole DLC, what with the leveling separation, the cavalcade of completely unique weapon designs, and the whole "Purge this place and lock it away forever" theme.
I don't think the intention was to have it be "better connected to the base game" anymore or less than was presented, neither thematically, nor mechanically.
The lacks of new lines in the base game was so disappointing.
And i'm kind of tired of this cryptic bullshit. At least in ER.
I’m replaying Dark Souls I after the Backlogs one-shot challenge and it’s amazing how not cryptic it is.
The backstory of the world is spelled out in the opening cinematic
Oscar very directly tells you what your goal is in the Asylum
The Crestfallen Knight tells you about both bells
Gwynevere’s illusion tells you to succeed Gwyn; Kaathe tells you to become the dark lord if you don’t want to
We even know about things like Artorias and hollowing
The cryptic parts are largely left to side characters like Pinwheel (still not that cryptic, we know he’s a necromancer who stole the rite of kindling) and side details like the statues or blightpuss. It’s not like Elden Ring where core plot elements were still be debated years after the fact and half of all “lore” videos feel like fan fiction and head canons.
@@samueltitone5683 👍
@@samueltitone5683I was saying the same thing only for classic souls simps to retort with "just read the lore". I wholeheartedly believe the majority of the playerbase ignores the entire story like with bad hollywood action movies and those who care either opened the wiki or watched Loretubers
@@samueltitone5683this is what I keep saying. Anyone who has delve deep into dark souls knows that probably 80% or more of the lore content in the game is solid fact that is agreed upon. We know what we need to know for the most part. People think that just because bosses in Elden ring spill information out to you, the story is somehow more coherent.
What if... We can use Messmer's kindling to burn the Erd Tree and save Melina. The downside would be no one can stop Miquella's plan and he'd be the next Marika, repairs the Elden Ring in his image, remakes everything... at the ending, Melina asks you for another "accord" for a quest to destroy Miquella's version of the ring... sets up Elden Ring 2.
Alas, Melina doesn't even have a dialogue in the DLC...
In the Abyssal Woods, there's section where for a big waterfall area that seems to be begging for something to be put in it, whether it be a boss fight or a secret dungeon entrance somehow. This DLC is really needing badly for a follow up.
I think the whole point of Godwyn being dead in spirit alone means not only that he isn't in there at all and is absolutely gone but also that Death itself is the only thing that CAN reside in his body thanks to the halfwheel centipede carving.
Thats fine and all but if you attack fia, death skulls start to fire at you from godwyn. And fia even mentions how Godwyn is the one attacking and not her. So explain that if hes a vegetable?
@@draw2death421 Is that even a real Godwyn inside that rotting corpse or Fia coping? His soul is dead, gone, flew to the stars, whatever. That thing is not Godwyn anymore, just a glorified piece of meat Godwyn's followers weren't able to let go. IMO.
@@padrenuestre either way you can hit it and nothing hapens but if you hit fia then the giant mermaid corpse attacks you back.
So it definetly has some kind of affection or need to protect fia.
@@draw2death421 yeah I understand there is some kind of affection is coming from the corpse towards Fia. I just don't think it's Godwyn, whatever that is.
@@padrenuestre Could be tho fia does specificly say godwyn is protecting her. Then again she is a Necrophiliac so her word isint exacly the most sane one lol.
Also if you accepted the 3 fingers, there should have been something that happened with the abyssal woods. Like at least being able to kill those unkillable monsters... without parry
There's only two things I would have liked to see:
- A choice whether to follow Miquella or to fight him.
They could have easily done so by chosing the Leda boss room, making both Miquella and Radahn sitting on thrones, where usually the entrance to the final fight would be, with Miquella telling us how great we did, that he will now ascend to Godhood and herald the coming of a new age. He tasks the Tarnished with heralding his coming by going to the Erdtree, granting the player a new ending option, similiar to Age of Stars, where we pretty much hand over all to Miquella.
It can still hint at Radahn being just a silent shell on the throne (given that it's Miquella's illusion that he's showing us) while around the throne, Leda and the rest of the gang (minus Thiollier and Ansbach) will compliment us on having supported them on this journey thus far.
You can however attack within this room, so if you attack either Miquella or one of the NPCs, the illusion and the NPCs fade away, similiar to how Gwynevere in Dark Souls 1 worked and then it all goes down to Leda's speech and how the regular game functions - furthermore you can't choose the Miquella Age of Compassion ending anymore.
If you defeat Miquella+Consort now, you not only get the cutscene, but as well the option for another ending path, where the Tarnished themselves will start their Age of Compassion - with all the positives and negatives implied. Difference here being, that the player chose as an Elden Lord the same path Miquella did, we could perhaps even see a brief scene where the Tarnished enters the Divine Gate similiar to how Marika went through it in the trailer.
And the best part is: It's only small changes to the existing game, all FromSoft needed to do was to record some additional lines of dialogue, maybe some animations for Miquella and Consort Radahn sitting and two smaller cinematics for the ending, that can just go with the same camera view on looking up and down the Scadutree instead of the Erdtree, while in one version the Tarnished kneels in front of Miquella and in another we see the Tarnished standing right in front of the Divine Gate, sorta like we saw Radahn standing there initially.
I doubt that this would have been too much effort to do for a Studio like From Soft to put in last minute.
- Voice lines to Rellana and Romina, perhaps even more lore stuff on items or dialogues from NPCs
Even if we keep the position of these bosses, given that I don't mind these, I do mind that we got pretty much two promising characters - one of them even tied directly to one of the main characters from the main game with ex-princess Rellana! - and we got pretty much hardly any informations on them.
Nothing about how Rellana viewed her family, how she was prior to the Crusade, if there was anything of interest, that she saw in Messmer and why she abbandoned pretty much everything for him, perhaps even if Messmer saw anything in her...
I probably know due to this DLC more about Mogh and f-ing Radahn - about whom I knew anyways, given how often he got referenced in pretty much everything in the base game - and then there are these two + Gaius, who just appear for the boss fights, drop their remembrances and that's all we have to know supposedly.
Okay fair, Rellana has also an amulet, but ehh... like come on, Miyazaki!
You expect me to believe that there couldn't be told more about Rellana other than those few story lines, while there's at the same time an entire story of Radahn learning gravity magic, just so he was able to ride on his favorite horse - that by the way also got a name??
FromSoft please! >.>
But yeah, more lore would have been appreciated on Rellana, Romina and perhaps Gaius. Maybe even the Putrescent Knight, because lorewise it felt like the biggest filler boss within the DLC, but on the other hand I also didn't feel anything when seeing that thing. It being there for the purpose of being there... fine by me.
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You're not alone, I poured over 100 hours on my first playthrough of the DLC and saw everyone complaining about everything but what I had thought was its biggest flaw - its lack of impact. You kill Miquella and Radahn and then that's it; Saint Trina also dies and you can pick up her headpiece but that is the one and only extra piece of content left, it feels so unceremonious. If they had implemented similar things to what you're suggesting in this video, the legendary status of the dlc would have been upgraded to Masterpiece.
Also, meeting Placidusax after killing Bayle should get you something; Like him not being hostile to you oslt.
The DLC is missing the following
1) Cutscene for entering the shadowlands
2) Dialogue and or Cutscene from Rellana before and after the fight.
3) Romina Cutscene & dialogue. In addition, the 1st phase should've been her in a bud or flower like state. 2nd phase she'd bloom into her current state, 3rd phase scarlet butterfly.
4) secret NPC side quest which allows you to turn all miquella's followers into allies
5) after miquella's defeat, player should be able to interact with the divine gate and remove the veil Marika placed over the shadow lands
6) In the story trailer of the DLC, Leda says that Miquella spoke of the beginning, it's never stated when or where he gained that information 🤔
7) Finally, locating critical Miquella's crosses should activate a Cutscene. For example, the removal of his eye and him discarding St. Trina.
I loved the game but the dlc felt completely unsatisfying. Didnt even finish radahn, and ive beaten every other fromsoft title. The story and its conection to the main game made no sense to me overall.
Because they were forced to push the project out a year ahead of time. Execs. As usual.
Wait what? No 3 stage fights? That pissed-off sunflower boss would like to have a word.
Imagine if we talked to Gideon at the Hold and we had a dialogue option about the Shadow Realm and he was like completely clueless.
He basically is completely clueless
@@buffoonustroglodytus4688 oh yes he very much is. 😆 What better way to rub salt in the wound than to tell him such a place existed.
I’m confident I know why From decided not to include a cutscene for the transition when you touch Miquella’s hand. From has always been a videogame ass videogame developer, they like to explain things, stir up emotions, frustrate and dazzle you while you’re in control, not when you’re passively watching a cutscene.
After you touch the hand, you shuffle up some steps and are absolutely gobsmacked by what is arguably the most striking in-game sight in any From game, the Gravesite Plain in all its desiccated, bleak glory. Seeing this vista was one of the most memorable moments for me in any of these games.
Fromsoft is not concerned with the process of how you get into the Shadow Realm, they don’t want to distract you with a flashy cutscene, and take away from an in game experience that I think is priceless.
Jumping off of what you said about using the divine gateway to go back in time, it would be so cool if it unlocked a whole new part of the campaign where we stole the rune of death from Maliketh and caused (or at least witnessed) the night of the black knives. It would be such an interesting way to get closure on who killed Godwyn.
This idea might not synergize with the mythical flavor of Elden Ring but it would be a chance to see all the demigods in their prime, to learn more about the gloam eyed queen, and explain why it’s so hard to pin down who took Godwyn out (i.e. because it was a time traveling Tarnished ;) ).
You didn't pay attention to a single fucking thing in this game and it shows...
@@kevinfortsch idk man it would be pretty cool if we were in the night of the black knives like how in AotA we are the hero who killed artorias
Totally agree. I got the Frenzy Flame before going into the DLC b/c I wanted to see if there was some secret interaction with Midra, some recognition or even the eyeball NPC igrnoring you b/c YOU ARE the host but nope. Literally nothing. Huge let down, love both Base and DLC but a little bit of overlap would have been nice, especially b/c we can only access the DLC by doing checkpoints in the basegame.