I like Joseph Anderson's take on the Elden Beast. "I wouldn't be surprised if they simply forgot to enable Torrent for this fight and now they're too embarassed to admit and fix it"
@@AshenWednesday nah the shit take is defending that garbage boss. Bugger runs off just as you get close to him so unless you’ve built a bow/crossbow build or a magic build then good luck running him down to get a collective two hits on him only for his attacks to instantly kill you no matter your armor or health. Edit: I've beaten the game multiple times. I have no issue in beating the boss. But that does not mean it's a good fight. The boss is poorly designed. That's what I'm complaining about. Ya'll seem to think I'm complaining about it being too hard and impossible to beat. NO. No, I am saying that the fight is tedious and annoying made worse by its inclusion after a much better fight. The boss runs away constantly and has many attacks that deal an absurd amount of damage with little to no room for error. Like the falling star attack which really does feel like we were supposed to have torrent. Furthermore the issue is not that I am unable to deal damage, but rather the window for dealing said damage is small because the bloody thing runs away every six seconds. I am like 7 new game plusses in. I have NO PROBLEM BEATING THE BOSS! Having said this, I really must stress. Being able to do something doesn't make it good. I love this game. But if you love something you should be able to acknowledge when there's a problem. Elden ring has a boss problem and the elden beast is the horrible rotten period on a mostly amazing game. SO ENOUGH WITH THIS "GIT GUD" NONSENE YOU CRETINS!!!
A great boss like Ishin tests all the skills you learned during the whole game, a boss like Malenia tests your ability to watch a youtube video on how to dodge waterfowl dance.
@@lorenzo8208 It was. we as player were worse, but you had the clear tells on when to roll in each attack and the longest combo was a 3 hit even for artorias. Manus introduced a crazy one shot combo but even that had a very simple answer: run.
@@Hyde_Lawrence totally not, entering both DLCs was a very random process. It varies from person to person, but it feels so illogical to me. Also I don't think shorter combo the better, if that's what you're implying there, but you do you
@@lorenzo8208 Oh, since the original comment was talking about a boss mechanic i assumed you were talking about the same. Yeah, DLC entrance was cryptic as fuck, but that was on purpose to put the community at work, there's millions of players, someone will run to it and put a message in the ground or upload a video then everyone knows. On the other hand, It's not about the lenght of the combo is about having a clear opening/reward after succesfully dodgning an attack, which in ER is less favored towards the player. ej: after evading 6 attacks from radagon instead of propper punish LIKE ALWAYS you also neeed to watch out for an explosion on the ground that might happen or not lmao
Placidusax is probably where I felt this issue the most. By his 2nd phase he'll keep taking turns with teleporting and going for a flying attack. It just drags the fight because you can't do anything but wait while he's done. It's simillar to the Ancient Dragon in DS2 who spams his AOE fire breath in the air and you just have to wait for him to land. Bosses like Midir and Kalameet don't use moves like that as frequently and it helps make them much more engaging and active fights, because there's usually not much downtime. I talked mainly about dragons, but you can fit this philosophy with a lot of fights in ER.
I'm surprised there was no mention of easily the most hated boss in the game, the Godskin Duo, a fight that fools you into thinking it's like Ornstein and Smough where one is slow and does massive damage and the other is fast and uses hit and run tactics but in reality both of them are ridiculously fast with no end to their combos and not to mention that bullshit nearly unavoidable roll the fat one does and it's mandatory to even get to Malekith
To be fair, Forum Azula is pretty crap from start to finish IMO. Way too many tough bad guys at once, dragons descending from nowhere and filling the screen with lightning and explosions, lots of DS2 style level design (confusing and easy to fall to death). From put all their effort into the early game and not enough into the late game.
@@adammclaughlin845 It's a beautiful location with cool items and enemies. Said enemies and dragons are also functionally no different from other enemy groups because running past enemies is universally the most optimal choice even in the early game. Also confusing level design isnt a problem if your concern is to actually have fun and not speedrun, since there is still a lot to do in Farum Azula. The Duo is bad, but everything else, including the goated boss Maliketh, is really good in that location.
@@adammclaughlin845all endgame areas are absolute horseshit starting from consecrated snowfield where they become run past all enemies zones since there is no point fighting an imp that 2 shots u
I hate how fromsoft knows gamers have gotten used to their attack animations so now every enemy drags his weapon for like 49 seconds before swinging it incredibly fast just to arbitrarily disrupt your timing by making the enemies move in a completely unrealistic and unnatural way
@@soundsbyzer0"y'all are just bad" is also not a real response I can consistently dodge almost every boss but i still think the amount of delayed attacks is just cheesey and makes the fights less fun, its not as much of a fight as it is remembering timings and button inputs
I think the lack of Marika's Statues in Raya Lucaria makes a lot of sense, but I would have loved to see them replaced by Radagon Statues. Not only would this tie into the lore of the Marika/Radagon are the same being, but it would also promote the idea that these statues are still intact because Rennala still cares for Radagon.
Or you know, put a stake of Marika outside the boss room since most of Rennalas followers renounced her as their champion anyways and no longer follow her. If your lore is getting in the way of quality of life features in your video game, thats your intuitive sense as a GAME designer to rewrite your story to better serve the actual game play.
One thing that i really wish they did, is have the camera zoom out on bigger bosses. They did it in sekiro, and it makes it soo much easier too see what the boss is doing when you you're close and attacking. Now with no camera change, it sometimes makes the boss figh just seem cluttered, sparaddic and sometimes unfair. (Just realized while waching, this happens on some bosses, but is inconsistent)
They also did the camera zoom out with Ludwig in Bloodborne. It’s something they’ve been capable of doing for a long while, they just simply choose not to
They have had the same exact problems in all the games since DeS. The cult fan base praises them with every single game and says they can do no wrong so they never fix anything or improve on anything because the cult will eat it up and tell you to "git gud". There's no worse fan base in the world.
@@A_Black_Sheep94 Just wondering, how many times have you copy/pasted this exact comment? I've seen that exact wording before, even on different channels lmao
I agree with you on Hoarah Loux, but not on Godfrey. Godfrey was the only boss I felt like I could reliably dodge in the whole game because he was telegraphed properly every time.
Yeah the axe version of him is a pretty good fight. The naked guy covered in blood version is terrible. Any boss or baddie that has a move that just bich slaps you sooo much and sooo fast that you just gotta take it and then probably die isn't a good boss. That's just str8 up overly unfair.
I know im late here, but I feel exactly the same, Godfrey is fantastic, clear telegraphs, punish windows that are actually consistent without any bs extra extensions, and no extreme delays that just look silly. But I just dont know what they were thinking with hoarah loux, grab moves have always terrible in these games and I have no idea why they keep making them a thing. From has never implemented one of these well and I just wish they would stop trying. A boss whose moveset revolves almost entirely around them was doomed to be a failure.
Golden godfrey is honestly TOO fair imo, he has like 3 attacks and they're super clearly telegraphed so I crushed him. On the other hand, I don't love the enemies that drag their weapons around just to fake you out or have a billion attacks, so I don't really know what the best middle ground would be
@@hazelgill5805 well said. Also the game just doesn't really have a difficulty setting. It's just default hard and gets a lil harder with new game plus modes. That's it. The real hardcore players yawn at how easy the game is for them but they no lifed melania fights over 1000 times so of course they can beat her pretty easily. I'm getting there myself as someone who's bested her about 30 times now. Just beat her without getting hit in a solo noble slender blade vs her and that's it. If you got it on pc, get mods. You can sort of adjust certain things to make it easier and or harder and honestly create a better experience for yourself than the one from soft came up with lol. You know how Gideon is a really easy boss? lol. Modded Gideon is a different story lol that guy has some serious nuke like magic!
I love jumping through his ground stomp and slapping in the face before dodging the follow up. A lot of people forget that jumping is an option to create your own openings instead of dodging until the boss gives you one. For Godfrey’s stomp if you roll through and try to get a hit in you’ll get hit but not when you do a jump
"the other games sped you up with the enemy" that finally got me on board with what you were saying. I think that's the biggest issue with all of this. BB and Sekiro had insanely fast bosses but you were also insanely fast
Same with ds2, Ds2 had bosses that are fast but not faster than you CAN be, they also have recovery frames that are just as slow as yours are or just as fast as yours CAN be.
Definitely agree with this, the transition is rough for BB and Sekiro players. I also feel like ER is a FP/Magic focused game while BB and Sekiro are melee focused games so that makes it extremely difficult for people to transition over to ER from those two other games. ER just punishes melee focused play styles with their bosses and it demands so much patience since the bosses are so aggressive. You just have to accept that ER is not BB or Sekiro in the end and you cannot play it the same way. Best thing to do is to lose the stubbornness and just adapt to how ER wants to you play the game by using the tools you’re given rather than ignoring them. Or if you really want to be stubborn, then prepare yourself for intense attention to detail on boss attacks and become far more patient than you ever were for the previous two games.
@@magikazam8430 Agreed, Elden Ring can be cheesed so bad with so many things that it’s not really all that fun. It’s only fun the first couple times you annihilate bosses but it gets old real fast. I wish ER had better middle ground between melee and magic
The most annoying thing for me in ER is abundance of huge, colossal bosses (compared to main character height and size). Its like Miyazaki wanted to do something really epic and cinematic by forcing player to fight freaking buildings, but it ended up in encounters where you have to cock and ball torture bosses/enemies because you never see anything over their belt for the whole fight. Also, its super dumb to die because big dude dropped a sword in couple meters from you. These aoe attacks are outrageous
The worst part about Elden Ring is that it has problem that have been fixed in previous games for a while. Massive boss ? Withdraw the camera so you can see what's happening. Gank boss ? Make one more agressive and sign post whichever has the range "F you attack". Hyper agressive boss ? Make it flinch as much as the player so that it feels fair. And yet, they ignore every.single.fix.
To me it feels like From just smashed all their games into a single amalgamation, without checking if the final game is actually enjoyable. It's like everything that is good about ER is sheer fucking miracle, because if you downgrade its graphics, you could easily fool people into thinking that it's a game from ~2012, with how many dumb design decisions it has. Many of which were solved by From themselves in their previous games
@@raven75257 yes bro, thank you. The game is not built around its combat at all. The bosses and many of the enemies just do not feel fun to fight given the tools you have. These bosses have so little openings, and attack for so long that it gets boring have to Wait to hit them. It’s crazy that if they just added the sekiro deflect to the game, it would be 90% better.
@@J25-p3h There's actually a mod for that. To add to that even further, Moronia or whatever she's called is rumored to be a scrapped Sekiro boss, which would explain a lot. There's also a basic enemy that is one to one (except for visuals) copy pasted from sekiro I understand people liking ER, but the way they're praising it like it's the second coming of Christ of frankly insulting
As much as I love this game, it’s hard to ignore some of the BS in the boss fights, people always say malenia is good because she’s hard but it goes from hard to unfair very fast.
@@storageaftermath dude she’s like the main boss for being hard, she is meant to be unfair. Out of the 165 bosses in the game at-least 1 should be op and it’s really really late game.
The camera problem can be solved by what Generation 5 Monster Hunter games do; whenever a monster is about to do a wide scaled attack the camera zooms out to give you the vision cue you needed. These things will make fighting things like the Ulcerated Tree Spirit or giants much more comfortable.
The only monster hunter i’ve played is world, and i know what you’re talking about Safi’s Sapphire of the emperor, Alatreon’s Escaton judgement, and Fatalis’s Schrade’s demise all zoom the camera *way* the fuck out when they occur I feel like that would fuck with the pacing of elden ring Like, there’s a clear audio cue when they happen, and they only happen once or twice a fight, usually accompanied by a break in combat several seconds beforehand so you know something’s coming But Elden ring’s combat is too irregular, and attacks such as those happen too often I feel like you’d get motion sickness from your camera doing the equivalent of a chicken pecking grain
They do that to a degree with sekiro, such as in the guardian ape fight and demon of hatred, where the camera zooms out as they prepare an attack, it sets up a cool cinematic moment and gives the player an indication to get ready
MMO's have been letting uou control the camera to zoom out when fighting gigantic bosses for literally decades. Fromsoft can't figure out nor don't want to figure it out because it would make their games more fair and less frustrating
My biggest gripe with the twin gargoyles is that they wasted such a beautiful boss arena on them. The huge open cave, the giant waterfall, the pretty rock formations, you would think they would have made some kind of aquatic monster like maybe a giant squid creature or something along that line to complement the boss arena.
The gargoyles was one of my favorite boss fights in the game, I really enjoyed how difficult it was to manage the two of them at once. It really worked for me so I'm surprised to hear that others didn't like it.
The thing that frustrates me the most about elden ring is all the builds i was excited to try but then discarded after i realized they would make the endgame a nightmare.
For me it's all the weapons and cool items I get that I can't use without completely changing my character, and then grinding out runes to buy the upgrade materials for them. I suppose this is more just me being annoyed with stricter rpg style games, and not just ER and souls games alone, but it's always something that kinda made me not want to explore in ER.
100% I have only finished the game once but have started many new characters that always make it to about the mountaintop Of Giants before I quit. The problem is that every build I make is either underpowered or overpowered. There doesn't seem to be a middle ground, I've even tried to look up guides in an attempt to make a fun build but everyone only seems to be interested in creating the most op meta build possible instead of actually fighting the bosses and having fun. The over tuned bosses and terrible overall balance are the sole reasons I cant enjoy it as much as the other From Soft games.
I have all achivments on all souls games except demons and sekiro and your right. In all other games i feel like anything is viable but in elden ring i just don't wanna go to the endgame with builds i know will make it pure hell
I also think these bosses do have their issues, but I disagree with how greatly this video exaggerates some of these points. Can’t judge on the dlc yet but I feel like some of these bosses deserve a little more slack; except renalla & valiant gargoyles
FromSoft has an insanely dedicated fanbase, like the only other fanbase as dedicated are gacha games with their waifus and shit. So yeah saying anything negative about the game is just heresy to them no matter how valid, because whenever you point out that a boss is badly designed they answer with one of either skill issue or shit like just use mimic.
One thing I like about Morgott and Mohg is that there are couple of symbolic dichotomies between them. One is that they have a sort of heaven and hell kind of theme between them, with Morgott using holy magic to conjure weapons of light and Mohg using fiery blood to attack, in addition to the later growing devil-like wings later on. The two also have a dichotomy in their fighting styles. Morgott is a fast, dexterous enemy who is capable of changing the speed and rhythm of his attacks. Mohg, on the other hand, is significantly slower and more predictable, but has much longer reach and hits much harder per blow than Morgott. This is reinforced by their boss weapons scaling largely off of dexterity and strength, respectively.
well nice angel/devil comparison i didnt thought about before. Also Morgott sword has flames (like archangel sword) and mogh use trident ( well belzebub/devil perk)
@@bowser5388 Plus Morgott guardes the Erdtree which is literally the home of god and goes high up in the sky whereas Mogh is found in the unterworld/underground.
One thing I will say about Astel, I was one of the seemingly very few people who didn't do Ranni's questline at all, so my first exposure to Astel was the Stars of Darkness variant. The Stars of Darkness variant is just straight-up much stronger, more health, more damage... and if you haven't seen _its_ version of the grab, do yourself a favor and check it out. Its absolutely ridiculous.
@@kommentier9884 I do wonder just how many points of damage that grab deals. At 60 Vigor and 40 Endurance with the sturdiest armor I could wear without fatrolling, I'm pretty sure I _still_ got oneshot.
@@aidankeogh9994 According to Vaatividya it deals 2410 damage to an unarmored character. I still don't know how much armor actually reduces damage by so for simplicitys sake lets just assume its about 20%. Thats still deals over 1900 damage in a single attack. Which comes out so fast, silent and subtle ( and also a little bit delayed because OFC it is) you probably will get hit by it, the first time you encounter it.
I was in the same boat just running into him in a snow mine and got my ass handed to me. That grab attack was crazy and that encounter kind of ruined the climax of rannis quest for me
Note, the fireballs for the fire giant don’t prime to explode until they are near you. So you’re meant to trigger them, then get out of the way before they detonate.
That’s what I figured out later on in my fight, it’s unfortunate that the game doesn’t have any way of showing it. Meaning in most bosses before hand you get a habit of “oh shit that’s an attack that can one shot have to run away”. The only time I realized I had to actually ‘detonate’ them is when I accidentally went too close and dodged
@@Pint-Sized-Slasher those fireballs are also the same incantation you can get very early in the game from one of the early evergaols. It's called flame of the fell god. It's actually kinda overpowered because enemies dont react or dodge, and it usually knocks them down and allows you to stunlock them. This is the only way I was able to defeat Malenia lol flame of the fell god would follow her from behind, explode, knock her down, and I would spam fire attacks and keep knocking her over.
The amount of bosses that are just two variants of one another is really bad. Throwing two nearly identical bosses in one room is really lazy and creates an artificial difficulty.
Good point. But i think making more unique bosses would span even more game development time and resources. I liked the gargoyle duo, and the godskin duo is not that terrible. The dungeon bosses i never even considered to be that big of a deal if they are reskins. The game is too big to have unique bosses for every dungeon, ruin or evergaol. And some of them are pretty cool as well and make sense lore wise
Souls games have really come to this point where their identity as roleplaying games with tons of options for building characters and their identity as hard games with super hard bosses are really starting to clash. We're stuck fighting giant bosses that can throw barrages of beams and other stuff at the player with a moveset that hasn't changed that much since Demon's Souls.
either that, or you go in insanely overpowered with a small army of summons and rivers of blood and just melt every boss. Game is less balanced than life.
It's similar to the problem with superhero movies: The super has taken over from the "hero" aspect. It's all about bosses getting bigger, and faster but the devs don't seem to put much thought into actually balancing the player so that it works.
I think most enemies, not just bosses, attacks track too well. There're definitely times an enemy will instantly spin 180 degrees to strike you mid attack animation. Bosses also have ridiculously lengthy combos with little time to damage in between.
Positioning comes in to play, simple directional dodges opens them up for heavy, AOW and R1. Jump over attacks and shoot projectiles to get them to input read you and attack when stuck in animation. This isn't Dark Souls where you wait for openings you make them.
Yea, the amount of times where i’d see a boss wind up for a big attack, so i’d move off to the side to punish, only for them to breakdance to hit me pisses me off Before getting elden ring, i was told about how there’s a “dance” with bosses Elden ring feels less like dancing with the boss, and them dragging you by the balls and making mosh pits look like yoga
@@tacticallemon7518 play dark souls 3, it has that dance you're looking for. I've been a soulsborne player for a long time and Elden ring bosses are shit
I feel like Elden Beast should have been more similar to Moon Presence from Bloodborne in that it could have been a kind of secret extra boss. Radagon feels like a much more fitting end boss, and Elden Beast feels more like Moon Presence thematically.
Honestly u kinda right. Like I feel like it shoulda been a secret boss if u take the chaos or ranni ending, because you’re directly opposing the greater will in both of those endings.
It reminds me quite a lot of the Moon presence from Bloodborne and the Radiance from Hollow Knight. I was actually quite surprised that the Elden Beast is a guaranteed boss and not a “true ending” boss like those other two. It feels like it would be and yet it isn’t
I agree 1000%. I wish Radagon had 3 phases like the Sister Friede fight in DS3 where he got progressively stronger, and then Elden Beast as a separate fight if you fulfill certain conditions.
It’s interesting, my headcannon has been that it was originally intended to be that way. Gerhman is a pretty difficult fight; and once you kill him moon presence is surprisingly underwhelming. It feels like moon presence was scaled damage and HP-wise with the expectation that you’d fight them back to back… yet in the actual game once you kill gerhman he never comes back and you wipe the floor with this supposed edlrich god On the other hand, Elden beasts massive health pool with Radagon’s already not easy fight feels as if it was meant to be an optional secret final boss, which replaces Radagon once you killed him. The fact that they are back to back totally feels like an oversight
Another comparison would have been DS2 SotFS's final three bosses. Mandatory Throne Watcher/Defender into Nashandra, and Optional Nashandra into Aldia. You could even change some of the flavor of the fight depending on what ending you're trying for (Ranni, Frenzied Flame, all the generic Ages).
"Nothing links Yura to Mohg" when the first instance of seeing Yura is killing a Mohg follower together ? And every part of his questline is killing mohg followers ?
And to get the item you have to go all the way to a church right slap bang near the start of altus. I mean who was checking churches all the time in elden ring, not like they had important things to draw you there
What i find most frustrating about the bosses is how weightless they often feel in all the souls games attacks have had the same weighty movement as you are bound by (although glichy in places) while in ER , huge bosses can quickly take swings & leaps with hardly any windup Plus a problem with giant bosses (that some souls games had as well) : the camera, kind of hard to see the bosses moves when all you can see is their croch
That last point is why I hate Radahn. While you can solo him on the ground, he's very counter intuitive to learn. As half the time you really can't see what's happening to learn at all.
I think Midir almost solved the "camera struggling to fit the large boss on frame in any cinematic manner" issue since most of the time the camera actually does a decent job of keeping track of him from the front. I say "most of the time" because the camera sometimes loses track of Midir when he raises his head while you're locked on. Overall, I would say he was mostly successfull with that, but there was still some jank. Divine Dragon has an excellent camera, but he's always positioned on the same spot, so the camera never has to move much.
Precisely this, because Fromsoft needed to add artificial difficulty so they made most attack timings completely unrealistic to throw people off. I always compare this to Sekiro, where imo the only bosses with whacky timings and delays are gyoubu and the monk, both of which have light weapons and one of which is basically levitating, making them fairer and more realistic than fucking morgott bending the laws of physics to roll catch you with a gigantic hammer.
If you look at other games with huge creatures, they generally have you fighting part of the boss at a time, or you have mechanics to fly around it, climb over it, etc. ER kind of wastes the huge bosses, because most of the time, you can only engage it by stabbing it in the shins and when you're that close, you can't see what it's doing..
i would have liked to see mention of the godskin apostle and the godskin duo, since i think the solo fight is extremely well made and one of the most functional bossfights in the game, whereas the duo fight has a LOT of issues
Yeah I had so much fun with the apostle, it was a joy to fight, as was the crucible Knight (the first time I did get sick of them pretty quick but still hold that first fight in high regards) it’s odd that my favourite fights are all “minor” fights
I for some reason haven't had any issues with godskin duo in either of my 2 playthroughs, I think it's because I was severely underleveled for both their solo fights, so have memorised their movesets perfectly.
@@cosmiclikesminecraft i feel the same way. a lot of the small 1 on 1s with "minibosses" were a lot more reasonable than the real bosses. another good example is the godfrey spectre which i found to be great and im surprised it wasnt mentioned in the video considering his opinions on the refight at the end of the game
i find that slow heavy weapons are not being taking into consideration by most boss designs. the recovery window for bosses is just too small and most blows end up in trades. of course not every opening thats suitable for a fast weapon should be sufficient for a heavy weapon, since that would make them overpowered, but in Elden ring you simply dont get big openings. its always: huge combo > small opening > huge combo. i found myself often have a way easier time after i switched from big slow stone hammer to my hellebarde. great video btw
They also don't consider smaller faster weapons, when I was dual wielding daggers or claws i had a hard time getting close enought to hit the bosses after dodging their attacks, not to mention the hitbox is so small that sometimes the attacks will hit the enemy and don't do damage, when i switched to a piercing sword the fight were way easier to play
@@flamingmanure Colossal swords involve spamming the poke attack. Smaller weapons are legitimately a fucking pain to use against larger bosses. It's an issue if the other weapon classes aren't hard to master but give the same if not better benefits than Colossal weapons and daggers despite those weapon classes being much harder to master.
Granted he had a rather tough time, but Dan Ghesling beat every single boss in Elden Ring with a Greatsword and never leveling Vigor because his chat kept telling him to get more HP. Watching some of the boss fights he did really highlighted how bosses have more openings than people think.
@@Soniman001yea you wouldn’t be as salty if you stopped breathing from your mouth tho, just a tip You don’t have to reply to this btw I have reply notifications turned off so I wouldn’t know if you replied to me or not nor will I check. This is because what I say isn’t subjective, it is objective and final, consider yourself educated 😊
Sekiro has the most refined combat system they’ve ever made, and if From wanted Elden Ring’s bosses to be as fast as Sekiro, they should’ve allowed for the deflect/visible stamina mechanic to be employed.
Sekiro was a smaller game and that is what made it so much better in my eyes. With ER you can tell they made this huge map and didn't have enough time to fill it with interesting and unique content. Maybe the DLCs will make this better but I have a feeling they will just add more to the game instead of making what there already is and isn't that great better.
@@nomercy8989 What he's talking about is a whole combat system, fs won't implement anything like that in dlc. They'd have to make a whole new game from scratch to implement sekiro features
@@ligmafigma9631 I think having faster input, quickstep or dash like in sekiro so your character will start running right when you hit the button instead of wait to see if you want to roll or not will be enough to make late game boss more fun to deal with
I liked Sekiro. i played that right before ER. While I found Sekiro to be harder, I also found it fairer. I could tell that it was my own reaction time that was the problem. I could see how I was supposed to get round an attack, I just didn't have the reflexes to do it. ER, I just found all the bosses to be spamming really cheap attacks and it was more frustrating, even though I was able to get to the end.
A posture or rather "stance" bar alongside the health bar would've been so nice to have. Then you'd be able to know what the stance is at and if it would be a better idea to aggress and go for the stance break or play a bit more reserved.
Dark Souls 3 felt like fighting Bloodborne bosses with a Dark Souls character Elden Ring feels like fighting Sekiro bosses with a Dark Souls character, like you're literally not equipped to deal with some of their shenanigans
@@Nrzpokrter bosses have low sweep attacks that sometimes cant be jumped even if they look like they should, as well as LONG repeated combo strings that would fit right in with the parry system from Sekiro. The Sekiro perilous strike system of stab/sweep/grab feels like it should have been added to ER with maybe a 4th option based on elemental affinity DS3 bosses were so fast and aggressive that you had to spam roll, and it felt like they were designed with the rally mechanic in mind in terms of their aggression. I like all of these games btw next time, dont declare that im wrong and then ask for evidence when im definitely correct
@@asininerealms And yet, you still havent listed 1 instance where the player isnt properly equipped to deal with a boss attack in ER. So you provided nothing.
I’m glad you mentioned the hyperarmor issue on Malenia but I’d like to expand on it. If you perform an attack that should stagger (put her in critical hit state) her while she is in hyperarmor, she won’t stagger. She’s the only enemy in the game that works like this, and when you’ve come to know when she would be staggered by your move and she goes into a hyperarmor move, punishing you, it gets really frustrating.
There are specific moves where she never gets hyper armor, but like everything in Elden Ring they are extremely rare guaranteed openings that don't even look like openings and occur rarely.
@@feebleking21 Yeah the thing is, she can use these hyperarmor moves whenever she wants. On my faith, strength character, I used to go crucible horns to send her flying then immediately use crucible tails as she’s getting up. Sometimes that would result in her getting staggered and me getting a critical hit, sometimes she would just hyperarmor it and hit me. There are even instances where as she’s getting up she goes into waterfowl dance and there are 0 frames where I could have staggered her.
@@elien902 if she could use hyperarmor whenever she wanted then it would be impossible to beat her no hit at level 1, so that is untrue. There are specific attacks where she can't hyperarmor.
@@feebleking21 there are windows where it is safe to hit her for sure. I wasn’t arguing against it. My point is that there are specific instances where she can decide to go into a hyperarmor move or not, like in the crucible horn / tails example I mentionned. It’s just annoying that sometimes a combo like this one can result in immense damage and sometimes you will get punished since she went into a hyperarmor move. Any other enemy would have staggered if they had the same “stance bar” except her because for some reason hyperarmor makes her immune to stance breaks. Edit : Upon rereading my comments I can see why I can be misunderstood. I wasn’t clear and I hope this clarifies it.
"Even the worst of the worst fights in the game, or even the whole series, don't have anything on Elden Beast." I won't tolerate this Royal Rat Authority disrespect.
Yeah, I don't think the worst of Elden Ring has anything on the bullshittery that older FromSoft Games had. I probably did the idiotic run to the Bed of Chaos through the garish lava (and that awful, grating burning sound) a dozen times only to fall into a hole three seconds after entering the arena.
My main problem with the game is that, “staying close to him isn’t a good idea because he has attacks faster than you can roll.” That shouldn’t be a thing in a game about reactions and dodging
@@TheMidian46nah,its not. show me your gameplay. i played every souls and like many of you have 100% all of them/beaten them dozens of times but the bosses in elden incentivize either trading hits or backing off until their giant combo is finished. this may not be the case if you play cheesy but thats boring
My problem with this entire video is summarized in this comment. Elden ring is not a game about reacting and dodging. Rolling i-frames have consistently been the most accessable and reliable way (save DS2) of negating damage. Elden Ring was one giant lesson in forming alternative strategies. Wide variety of consumables like pots, perfumes, and buffs, physick flask, greater variety of shields, overpowered ashes of war, and summons are all readily accessible across the game and many bosses, virtually all of the ones listed in this video, encourage you to experiment with those strategies outside of timing roll dodges. Hell, guard counter + stance breaking alone trivializes most of the game and people are over here calling ER badly designed because roll dodging is harder than it used to be. My brother in Christ you have other buttons to press.
The demon princes in DS3 were such a good fight. They take turns properly and you get a nice visual indicator where and when the inactive one is doing its poison breath attack. And then the Valiant Gargoyles happened.
It's so good. Up there with OnS for duo fights. You get the start of the fight with one hyper aggro and one hanging back and shooting you with the poison (with a super obvious telegraph to the point where it's almost an arena hazard - affects your positioning more than anything). You then get the like 30 second window where they're both 'enraged' and it's frantic as fuck before you get back into the pseudo 1v1. Then the second phase is a souped up version of the demon you killed last with the giant laser/meteor attack depending. One of the best fights in the series imo
I was off-put by the incredible amount of unnatural delayed attacks, and near-instant follow up attacks to logical combo finishers many of the bosses displayed in this game, and I'm glad I'm not the only one that was annoyed by them.
@@seldomsweet The unholy bastard child of them both, in all reality. The never ending combos of Pontiff and the delayed attacks of Nameless King, the worst of both sides
I think the issue having gone through Elden Ring a few times is that the game feels as if a lot of the bosses are balanced around the summons the game gives you. FS WANT you to use them. So bosses end up feeling overturned because they’re not balanced to be fought one on one. Going through the game with and without summons on bosses are completely different experiences
Very true. Which means only the most stubborn and badazz of players can solo their way through all bosses. I did it. But I had to git gud lol and that didn't happen over night or in a week. Took months of on and off playing to get a real feel for when to dodge and when not to. Fighting the same bosses over and over again to get a real feel for how they attack you takes forever... Years even to hone the skills that much more. But at the same time, don't be a dick to players who are not no lifers such as myself. It's a hard game for those who have lives lol.
@@soyborne.bornmadeandundone1342some of the bosses aren’t to bad to solo even for newer souls players but using the variety of ashes was fun to me and I still did most of the work so I didn’t feel cheated
But even if that’s the case, why didn’t they update the boss AI to beat able to deal with multiple enemies? If they truly "balanced" the bosses with spirit ashes in mind, why TF didn’t they update their extremely outdated boss AI? This game is either excruciatingly tedious w/o spirit ashes, or completely trivial with spirit ashes. They should’ve completely committed to one. Trying to play both sides significantly hinders the quality of BOTH playstyles...
I first played elden ring idk you could summon. All I remember is I could summon NPC for certain fights in DS. I thought the same applied here. I fought the first 4 bosses without summons. Royal pain but I did it. Then found out I can summon. Mimic is my boy and I love having him in difficult bosses lol
There are tons of reasons Sekiro bosses are generally much more fun to fight than Elden Rings, but one major one is the delayed attacks in Elden Ring. Elden bosses motions are super unnatural, to where it just teases with your instincts and is extremely frustrating. Sekiro on the other hand has very real looking motions, animations, and strike speeds. Sekiro is still a really hard game, so I don't understand why they used delayed strikes as such a crutch for Elden Ring.
I wholeheartedly agree. In Sekiro enemies mostly test your reaction and you don't necessarily have to learn their moveset frame-by-frame to deflect. Attacks are very fast but timing is not awkward and/or spammy (even flurry attacks are readable). Wind-up attacks >>> delayed attacks.
@@Gamfluent I think it came out that good bc they only focused on one playstyle and polished it to perfection, i love the customization in Elden Ring and Dark souls but i think i would prefer if they would drive their focus to one specific playstyle for their next "soulsborne" game.
@@Gamfluent this is an interesting point, because i firmly believe, the more freedom of how to play you give a player, the less focused and elegant you can design challenges. elden ring really shows this, along with TotK as a more recent example
@@Gamfluent the more options and ways to play a player has, the less focused on one playstyle/approach you can design your challenges as a designer. sekiro only really has one viable type of playstyle, ergo as a designer, you know exactly what every single player who plays the game can do and might do. so you can design bosses for example in a complex a way as you want, because the options of what a player can do are pretty limited and you only have to consider those few options. you get what I mean?
I think the problem with Malenia is not her lifesteal or Waterfowl Dance individually, but both of these things combined. It makes the move far, FAR too punishing for how strict the allowed response to it is. The lifesteal also feels like a very contrived way of forcing the player to do the fight a certain way, especially odd since they could have just given her melee attacks Scarlet Rot buildup instead. It's more lore appropriate for her and still punishes over-reliance of your shield without completely invalidating entire builds and playstyles by being able to be planned around with items and gear. Hell, she gets it in phase 2 anyway.
I wouldn't say it's lore appropriate for her to use Scarlet Rot in her first phase but i do understand your point, personally i see Malenia as a completely no hit, no summon boss so that you have to engage in the dance with her.
I'm surprised you didn't mention the Demon in Pain/Demon from Below from the DS3 DLC when talking about the gargoyles since that fights a really good example of taking two similar enemies and making them work in a unique way. Most Fromsoft gank fights tend to be just them plonking down multiple dudes in a room but the Demon Prince felt like something that they actually put a lot of thought into. DS3 in general has my favorite gank fights in the series since they often felt "designed" so to speak as opposed to how it feels in this game and certain fights in the other games where they put them in and hoped that they'd work.
DS3 in general is still peak boss design for the series imo, though the only one I did not play is Bloodborne due to being on PC. Everything feels very fluid, fair, and has a clear tempo. Even the endurance fights make it fairly intuitive to learn the boss's rhythm, it's just up to you to get familiar enough with it to last for longer than usual. You still see some of this in several of Elden Ring's bosses, but then you have what I consider pretty bad offenders like Margit or Malenia that throw tempo out the window.
Not only do the two compliment each other like the fully evolved concept of bell gargoyles, they also pull an Ornstein and Smough in buffing up the demon of your choosing to create a more focused single fight tailored to your preference. It was then that I realized after all the past games they had perfected their multi-boss formula. Then Elden Ring happened.
@@Mecceldorf I'm still not sure what's the worst gargoyles in the series. The DS2 bell gargoyles, or the ER valiant gargoyles. DS2 is just cruel with throwing that many in a cramped arena, but their AI remains simple, only so many can be active at once (unless you intentionally provoke more), and their HP isn't too high. ER doesn't throw as many at you, but they are both pretty tanky, have complex movesets since they're designed as solo fights, do not take turns being aggressive, AND have longer ranged attacks INCLUDING poison. Okay fuck it, I don't even think the DS2 gargoyles were this bad.
@@hughmungus431 Damn, I actually found Bloodborne the easiest (or atleast I found it much easier than I was expecting and was a little dissapointed, wanting it to be harder). I think because of the speed of your character + rally(healing on hit) + gun being a ranged parry. I actually made it like halfway through the first area before I died and got my weapon lmao. Tbf, at this point (since I used to be on xbox before ER/PS5) I'd played every other game in the series bar Demon's.
1:32:29 this is exactly what irks me about so many Elden Ring bosses, it’s all just one sided and dodging. There’s no more those engaging back and forths like I loved so much in the bosses of DS3 and ESPECIALLY Bloodborne. And even Sekiro since every hit can be a back or a forth depending on if your parry is successful or not.. in Elden Ring it’s just staying away or dodging for 4 years while the boss flails around like a lunatic till you can finally find a tiny millisecond after 4 years of dodging to finally get in a little poke. It’s just exhausting and not as instantly rewarding or satisfyingly engaging to lock into that flow state with a boss.
I use the dragon kings crag blade which has incredibly high stance damage, and I feel like when I’m fighting bosses, like malenia that it is a back and forth, so idk I feel like I’m in a flow state, especially using some incantations, namely the crucible ones, which can be really satisfying
@@High_Rate136 Naturally. After all, the point of all Souls games is to pick the most optimal build. What are you, a casual? Where did you get the idea that all playstyles should be viable?
....Guys i think you might just suck. The entire game is figuring out how to weave your attacks into their attack patterns why are none of yall doing that
I give Fromsoft credit for at least TRYING to give us a new tool with the guard counter. But it just immediately loses its usefulness after you venture outside of Limgrave. And it’s just a complete non factor against bosses.
and they nerfed one of the few medium shields that actually could make use of it without being a greatshield! Turtle shield got a 16% absorption nerf. I quit not soon after that because the patches weren't helping pvp and I had already NG+ and 200 some hours. I'll play when they release DLC on my NG+ save.
I actually almost exclusively used a shield for this game just because i wanted to engage with guard counters and the posture system, despite not having used a shield since my first time on ds1. It felt pretty great, even trivializing some things like beast clergyman. The guard counter was always very useful.
@@cybercyrus6402 I just can’t imagine using the guard counter against beast clergyman because he’s so freaking aggressive. Are you tanking hits during the guard counter?
@@AstonishingRed Guard counters are incredibly strong. Power-level wise, they're probably a bit ahead of jumping attacks. Yes, most of their attacks are significantly slower than an R1 from any weapon, but roughly the same speed as an R2. Since they fit similar roles, we can compare R2s and Guard Counters; R2s are known for heavier damage and good poise damage. GCs offer around the same upfront damage as R2s, but a massive (like really massive) hit to posture damage. The playstyle is what turns most players off. The attacks are slower than R1s and you have to play defensively, absorb a hit, and then effectively use an R2 attack. This playstyle is a lot slower paced than the rest of ER combat. I don't particularly know the other commenters build, nor did I really use guard counters all that often, but you can expect to fit a guard counter in any time you could fit an R2. Also I think clergyman attacks have a very weak deflection(?) requirement
@@hodir1914 Yes and No. It is a bullshit attack but it has a longer wind up animation, is rarer, does less damage and doesnt give you status effects nor gives health back to the boss. Its a precursor of waterflow but a much less retarded one.
Something you missed about commander Niall that also gives reason to him having his summons in the fight is the fact that he's a repeat boss from caelid. However, in that fight, his allies were a lot of relatively weak foot soldiers instead of two of the strongest knight type enemies. It gave the feeling of him being an intrepid commander leading a group of commoners to greater heights instead of forcing you to deal with the body guards first before you can fight the boss himself. Was the caelid fight perfect? I don't feel so, but it does give deeper context to some of the overall choices with the castle Niall fight
Thats suposed to be a diferent person, but i understand that they have similar movesets. Theres some speculations about their relationship and why one is weaker than anoter, but just speculations as usual.
for me the biggest issue with niall that i guess isn't entirely fair, is the fight runs incredibly poorly on my computer. i have over min requirements in my computer but the game generally chugs at 40 at best. during nialls lighting frost combos the framerate can lower to 10-15 fps mking dodging them be based purely on instinct since i cant even properly see the animation a it skips so many frames. i think this is a larger issue with elden ring as the pc version has very poor optimization at times. i even think this is not an issue for just me, as in this video's footage of naill i saw at least a few noticeable frame drops
You know what soulsbourne boss could've really helped with the design philosophy for Elden Ring? Mergo's Wet Nurse. It has the ultimate 'my turn' moment when it engulfs the arena in shadow and does its shadow clone jutsu nonsense, and yet even then a skilled player can still wrangle their turn back. You can still damage Mergo pretty consistently if you aren't panic rolling and keeping your spatial awareness about you. It had grand spectactle, attacked a *lot*, and still allowed for some serious expression of player skill across all sorts of builds.
@@NotVinegar their point is literally the opposite - even though boss is in onslaught mode, player still can stay offensive if they are skilled enough and have at least two functioning brain cells
Fun fact, you can actually dodge Mergo's phase 2 nightmare attack. Just quickstep twice when you see the wind up. It's triggered by the AOE scream, so if you it, you don't see the clones.
@@cyron5091 to be fair if you use arguments like "if you are skilled enough" then you could extend it to the bosses in Elden Ring too. With the exception of Elden Beast, you can fight every single boss really aggressively and even style on them, provided you are "skilled enough".
The valiant gargoyles are definitely a time constraints issue because they already knew exactly how to do that fight propely. In fact, you can go and experience it yourself, it's the Demon Prince in ds3. Two nearly identical enemies taking turns to attack you while the passive one spits poison at you from afar. It's the exact same fight except done right.
God of War Ragnarok has a dual fight that is "fair" in a similar manner. One does ranged attacks while the other goes aggressive. And you can even control the AI of the opposing one by not staggering the other.
Demon Prince might honestly be the most underrated boss in all Soulsborne. Mechanically, it's even more well thought out than O&S. One of the Demons can even switch to a more agressive state which is nicely highlighted in Crimson Red. It's the best Duo fight they've made yet and it's so good... and then Valiant Gargoyles happened.
I would agree but it doesn't do any damage though right? Idk if that was a path change to him or something, but I beat him recently like a few days ago and I could of sworn that move didn't even do damage so It didn't really bother me. Unless I'm thinking of the phase 1 version.
well you haven't had a good experience and if you see him do a critique of DLC and you agree with this video, but he says the DLC is great, you will agree with him most likely.
“Blah blah blah I never get MY TURN blah blah blah healing is LITERALLY impossible blah blah blah you mean I have to try jumping or parrying sometimes??? Blah blah”
@@BjorkBjork-y4bDark Souls 1 is one of the easiest From Software games compared to Elden Ring which is by far the hardest especially when you remove summons. 😊
Really if I have to critique the boss that’s are really good There are only 2 bosses that are amazing to me Messmer and Midra are both amazing in terms of fairness in both mechanics and animations Bayle is also really good but the camera can be jarring when U underneath him other than that there are some weird stuff like his straight fire breath, etc
I think the Magma Wyrms and the Death Birds are among the shittiest bosses in the game. Not because they're poorly designed or anything like that, but because you run into more and more of them and they all fight the exact same way, but arbitrarily do a lot more damage for absolutely no reason at all. I can excuse the Erdtree Avatars because that's their whole purpose is to hang out around the minor erdtrees and they actually fight differently at each one and that's not the case for the Death Birds and Magma Wyrms. The Death Rite Bird by the Liturgical Town fights the same as the one in Caelid but does ×1000 more damage because "fuck it; it's a hard game, right?" and the Magma Wyrm by the cave where Radagon's sword is the same case compared to the one in that cave to the Altus Plateau. It's not real difficulty, it's bullshit.
well the magma wyrms can *technically* make sense since theyre are people turned dragon so you can say that someone was there and then coincidentally turned but the death birds seem out of place yeah
The thing about Deathbirds is they're out of the way and also nighttime only, so the devs assume you're only running into like 1 or 2 per run. I only ever fought the Death Rite bird near Castle Sol on my first run, I had no idea there were others until later.
Magma Wyrms are objectively poorly designed. Its been years since Demons Souls and Dark Souls yet for some reason, the camera is still complete trash in some fights. The camera is so bad that you resort to more passive strategies like running away from heavy one-shot slams and poke at feet because otherwise you just can't see what the mob is doing half the time.
i know for a fact that Malenia is the leftovers from the cancelled "Tomoe" DLC from Sekiro. Waterfowl dance is literally more or less already a move in Sekiro and this move + the way tomoe was hinted at in The main game make me guess this is what she would have been. with Sekiros combat system in mind, she would have been an absolute fine boss in that game. parrying on timing all her moves makes so much sense. even waterfowl dance
For anyone curious, the move is called "Spiral Cloud Passage". I think old Isshin uses a variant of this move in his fight. The description states: "Tomoe would watch her young master as he gazed longingly at the coiling clouds. The sight meant everything to her."
Also thinking about the "inner" bosses, some moves there feel out of place, like inner owl's giant flaming bird. Makes me wonder if they had a bunch of half completed bosses and when they couldn't finish it, they reskinned it a bit and gave the moves to already completed bosses Inner Genichiro in particular has a lot of moves that would totally fit a Tomoe fight
100% And it's a shame Fromsoft fans try to boil down any form of critiscism as "people don't like that it's hard, rather than "I'm not a fan of this philosophy of design you've taken with the combat". There's no room for meaningful discussions. These are the same guys that made Sekiro, Armored Core 6 and Bloodborne. What happened?
@leithaziz2716 What happened? People kept celebrating some of the most unbalance stuff. Fans don’t realize this, but the most difficult bosses in this game series are unbalance. Each game kept getting more and more busted enemies as a result.
Funnily enought, the comment about Malenia hitting a wall to heal was true after one patch, were every single attack triggered the healing ability. To quote a comment on R/Eldenring: "Bug Fix: Fixed the bug where Malenia was able to be beaten."
This is misinformation that is repeated so often people think it is true. Malenia didn't heal of air or wall hits - she was healing of ghost hits, which only occured in multiplayer sessions with severe lag and if someone was close to her attacks anyway. Everyone who has fought her solo would have never encountered this
Haha, given she is an end game boss that is completely optional, she gets a pass from me(although they should have made sure the rune and the boss weapons she gives were amazing and neither really is). She feels like a dark souls 2 dlc boss that says "oh, you found me...so you must think you're good...we'll see". If she was non optional, it would be a horrible fight.
Here’s my issue with most elden ring bosses. You know when you feel a sneeze about to happen, but it doesn’t right away, so you’re sitting there ready for it, and a certain time later it finally happens. That’s elden ring bosses
"The result is a game that's extremely defensive without any room to express yourself, even though there's more options than ever to build your character." Around 52:30. This is spot on. I am in love with the amount of freedom to choose what to wield in this game. But I get so frustrated because the windows of attack are so so tiny (e.g. morgott) that I'm forced into a hyper, cracked-out playstyle. There's so many cool incantations I have equipped that I literally never end up using because they are too slow to cast. All I have time for is a quick or sometimes heavy attack with my melee weapon
Sammme. I went with a FAI build because of how cool the incants are, but I ended up never using the damn things because there's literally never enough of a window to cast them. It pisses me off that From overtuned the bosses so much and is now in the realm of artificial difficulty which flies in the face of their previous games' design philosophy. Even "regular" enemies in lategame areas are so damn overtuned that the only way to get them to stop attacking is to bash them with a large weapon and poisebreak them. Try fighting a Black Knife assassin without poisebreaking them, neverending attacks and virtually no windows to get hits in, especially when they jump back after every hit making them even more annoying.
which goes to show how the game is designed to be played with melee weapons like 2H or 1h weapons. Magic makes the game so easy and spammy anyways I dunno what you guys are doing with those dinky incants and magics honestly. ER has the best boss designs by far for me and I love how aggressive bosses are but we are not forced into 'perfect parrying' like Sekiro and have variety of options at our disposal. Also, I think sekiro is heavily overrated. ER is literally what fromsoft wanted to do but couldnt quite did so far. Thats why it is a masterpiece for me.
That's because the game is designed for traditional weapons like swords, spears, etc. Incants and spells were designed for certain situations, that's the point. Obviously some of them are still good in any situation (Lightning Spear, Ancient Lightning Strike, Glintstone Pebble, Night Comet, Faster casting spells/incants like these) But most of them are designed for High Damage, High Risk. It's up to you to decide if you want to take the risk with incants and spells, That's how life works as well, Won't use a knife in a gun fight right? Use a gun
@@kirai1128 i think its more akin to being given excalibur but then realizing your in ww2 up against machine guns. Its disapointing when catch flame or carian slicer remain the best options for casters cuz all the late game spells are too slow:/
1:01:50 Yura is named hunter of bloody fingers. He hunts bloody fingers, thats his whole mission. All blooddy fingers are servants of Mogh and invade others to serve him.
Stop trying to make some big epic point lol. Admit that when you first played and ran into Yura, you were not making ANY connections and didn't even know who tf that red summon in the canyon was. You learned all this later. Stuff that's easily missable which is what his point was. Try to stay focused.
@@soyborne.bornmadeandundone1342 bro how hard you wanna salt and shitpost, he literally gave an explaining. Just because someone is smarter and not full of hate like you, you cant just throw stupid insults with zero content in this debate, this is not reddit
@@TrashGobliningno connection that would lead you to assuming you need him to not lose your entire health bar seems fair to me. Just bc he tangentially fights mohgs servants doesn’t mean shit tbh. Most tarnished fight bloody fingers. They’re fucking tarnished hunters. Diallos is a good example. He explicitly states that he doesn’t like the recusants or their lord, his desire to eliminate them AND whoever is running them, and his desire to infiltrate them directly. Yura just goes around stopping murders basically. And you’re using that as proof that he is connected to the big murder coordinator. When Yura is just doing what… well everyone else in the lands between does. Stop tarnished hunters Also, Yura warns you of agheel, but has no fucking relation to him or dragons whatsoever. He just knows about dragon communion and lets you decide whether or not to use it. He has no side, or connection to it. Just relative information. He isn’t a “dragon hunter” bc he’s got beef with agheel, just like he isn’t related to mohg just by fighting mohgs servants.
I am so glad someone else is talking about this. My biggest problem with Elden Ring were the bosses that just felt... Unnecessarily over the top. I'm glad someone finally talked about and analyzed why some of these fights just don't work. I don't hate Elden Ring but I do hate some of the worst of it's bosses
@@lorenzo8208 it's not misinformation though. These are opinions. Opinions aren't fact they're feelings, so they can't be "incorrect" or disproven. I felt the same way that VG felt about Elden Ring's bosses so I'm thanking him for making a video that relates with how I feel.
@@yourfriendlyneighborhoodbe5996 yes I know what misinformation and opinon mean, but many of the stuff VG said in this video is misinformation. Like "bosses have RNG combos", "you can't hit Maliketh in second phase with a slow weapon unless you have the claw", "Malenia's waterfowl is pure RNG unpredictable", "this attack isn't telegraphed so it's artificial difficulty". These aren't opinions as you can see. To explain all of this I would need to make a 3 paragraph long comment so just watch the Lupineos' video and form your opinion from there
@Dio-xo9rv But panic rolling doesn't let you finish the game. I beat Elden Ring. Panic Rolling is something I stopped doing in Dark Souls 3. But the reason panic rolling is such a big newcomer pitfall in Elden Ring is because the attack telegraphing is certainly absurdly bad. Bosses are flipping in the air and have ridiculous wind up for grabs and swings. It's unrealistic, not in a "wow my immersion is broken" kind of way. This is a fantasy game. I'm not expecting that. But what I am expecting is for animations to make actual sense. And Hoarah Loux' grab and other attacks are just... silly bro. You can't say that the bosses have fair and balanced movesets when the player is given such a small amount of counterplay to it. More attacks doesn't = good attacks. The methods of fighting are literally the most stale in the series. In certain fights like Mohg and there is one strategy you have to use to win. And in other fights like Malenia and Elden Beast you have to use one of like... 5 strategies to outplay a certain move.
Another issue I think Elden Ring suffers from is poor arena sizes and layouts for certain bosses. Two that spring to mind immediately are the Red Wolf and the Ulcerated Tree Spirit. The Red Wolf likes to jump sideways a lot and I found that the narrow room you fight it in caused the boss to get stuck on a lot of the objects. It could also very easily back you into a corner and relentlessly run you down with no way out. Fighting them again as mini bosses in the overworld felt a lot more satisfying (although the wolf does still enjoy jumping into walls when it can) The Ulcerated Tree Spirit almost appears to have been designed in a complete vacuum without any regard for the area(s) it would end up being placed in; the way it slides and rolls itself around makes 50% of it's body clip through walls and floors on almost every animation it has. It is incredibly difficult to keep track of some larger enemies in Elden Ring already, adding on the fact that most of the model isn't on screen because it's outside the playable area reeks of poor design choices.
I had the exact same complaints, especially the Ulcerated Tree Spirit. It kinda works out in the open near Mt Gelmir. its a huge area and you're on horse back, so its traversal attacks, arent quite so terrible, still not great. Then you fight it in a tomb... nah. If you're going to cheap out use a magma wyrm instead. Also the Debate Hall at the Institute of Magic and Wonder, has a giant flame wolf in there.🤣, sure, that makes sense, yeah...
@@MeatyLoaf I thought the arena being the old debate hall at the academy looked really nice and had plenty of room too tbh. I always liked the loading screen too I never really had a problem w that arena .
A good comparison for Radagon's teleport behavior is Lothric and Lorian, there's only about 3 different attacks Lorian will do out of a teleport and they all have very specific timings or tells to let you know which one is coming: if he appears quickly he'll do two horizontal swings, if it's slightly longer that means the downward stab is coming, and finally if there's a long delay, that means he's charging up his downward chop that leads into a linear AOE zone. It was very natural to learn these timings because even though Lorian was leaving your view, you could still predict which attack was coming next, instead of just letting pure RNG decide what attack is coming.
@goggles789 no lol. No it does not. In fact radagon can teleport nearly instant right on top of you, stagger you with said teleport. Then hit you before you can recover. Its absolute bullshit.
I did my playthough blind, and hadn't found the tear when I fought Mohg. The way I managed it was to get him close to his push, pop a stamina buff, then switch to the claws with a bleed buff and the bleed boosting gear, push him while he was in the middle of an attack animation, then burn through his HP before he could do the phase transition.
Same, I had gone through pretty much every main boss at that point so I had more than enough health flasks and it wasn't the main issue for me. It was still bullshit and I tried to dodge it like 20 times before googling if it's possible lol. I was using the double katana build and was struggling, I had good damage but couldn't stagger him so I switched to Morgott's sword and absolutely rolled him because it does bleed but could still stagger him easily with a few charged R2's.
Imagine an area close to Niall's bossroom that has a witch set and a lot of bewitching branches that grow around it. and the set talks about how niall ended up killing her because he was afraid she could turn the people working under him against him.
But that's completely unnecessary, because the boss is designed well without them. Bewitching Branches are a bonus if you think of them, but they are far from necessary. If you do this fight right it will be three 1v1s.
@@anonymousperson8903 agreed, I feel most complaints of elden ring bosses are souls veterans who can't get used to the changes that were made in elden ring, I played all the soulsborne games before this one and had no issue going through this game and beating every boss with no summons while using a greatsword. I'm on my 6th playthrough now and my opinion stays the same, most of the complaints for elden ring are from veterans who can't and refuse to adapt to the games changes or new players who find the game too difficult even though the game throws enough tools at you to make it easy.
@@eldenbladesofficialshop the “changes” they made are really bad. The whole stagger system feels like it was taped on to a game that otherwise is just dark souls 4
I think Radahn remains memorable because YOU ONLY FIGHT HIM ONCE PER PLAYTHROUGH. Seriously, Elden Ring has a serious issue that plagues all open world games where content is re-used so much that any novelty something might have is sucked out after the 37th time you do it...with another 84 times to go.
Godrick's delayed attacks encapsulate how a lot of the problematic attacks in the game feel: unnatural-looking, and borderline impossible to react to on instinct (too fast downswing/startup). The reason I like Godrick as a boss though is that even with some annoyances, he doesn't one-shot the player in one combo, as his damage scaling is well balanced based on the likely amount of vigor a player will have, whereas some late-game bosses/enemies seem to not be aware that 40 is the soft cap. Also, Godrick's cutscene is 👌 the guy's such a character.
Funny thing is, Godrick was a lot easier than Margit for me, because his tells actually feel a lot more reasonable and a lot of his big attacks have dead zones, or can be avoided by jumping. Margit on the other hand, with his endless hooooooold attacks, and "oh, let me clip one more attack onto my big combo" nonsense...
The only thing I didn't like was that Godrick was just so easy compared to Margit, Margit took me 2 solid hours of attempts, Godrick in the same session took 2 tries.
Coming back to this, I guess the upside to Godrick is that he's pretty easy to beat even though he has weird wind ups. And they get easier to dodge once you've tried a couple times. I'm just not a big fan of the overuse of delayed attacks, or the too-fast-to-react-to attacks which Margit is especially known for prolly.
In hindsight, Godrick is probably the most fun boss I had in the game. During my replay, I struggled to find any single boss (outside of Loretta) that I didn't have any major gripes with. Godrick still isn't devoid of those issues, his tornado spin at close range is hard to excuse and some of his attacks still have unnatural delay, but he's probably the least offensive about it. His damage is reasonable enough as to not discourage counterattacking and there's usually a lot of downtime after his attacks that allow for a lot of back and forth pressure that's common in DS3 and Bloodborne. Outside of that, he's a very entertaining character to watch thanks to his hammy delivery and creation of several memes. I also gotta give credit for Godrick having the most elaborate and indepth buildup out of any boss in a major dungeon. The castle and its soldiers really give off the vibe that Godrick scrambles with whatever he could find for soldiers, with little to no organising. Be it birds, trolls, dogs or lions. A lot of NPCs also have a connection with Godrick or talk about him prior: Rogier, Nephelli and Roderika. It makes me wish other dungeons were as involved as his when it comes to the dungeons' identity and how NPCs interact with the boss (Mohg's palace is kinda like that but it's very short).
Main problem with this video? You assume the playstyle you choose is the most suitable for the boss fight. That doesn’t just include weapon builds, but also the way you waste so many clear openings. Had to comment this after I saw the disaster Maliketh fight was
Another thing to mention about Foritssax, and by extension all other ancient dragons, is that they're trying to be Midir-style fights, where the game is intending you to hit their heads instead of their body, since it inflicts more damage. For Fortissax it's more obvious, since the front of him (where he attacks most of the time) isn't affected by the lightning timer. However, unlike Midir who keeps his head low enough for you to hit the entire fight, Ancient Dragons keep their heads out of reach most of the time, only lowering it after certain attacks before near-instantly raising them back up again out of reach. So it's a combination of a hard-to-hit head and a lightning timer for the body that makes Fortissax so weird. It feels like the game wants you to go for either body or head, but at the same time punishes you for going for either.
It reminds me of Fatalis from Iceborne in a way. Except you don't need to break Fori's head cause its next phase is full of one shots without a head break. For gunner weapons at least but yeah the way it keeps it head during at least half the fight makes it hard to do good hits and for gunners you just don't do much damage to it so the fight which is already on a short timer doesn't allow for much time to focus on the head. But at least Fatalis doesn't punish as cruelly for hitting the chest
I'm so glad someone brought up Margit's 3 hit combo, I thought I was going mad with that one. After 3 playthroughs of the game, I never found a way to fully avoid that combo, and it became the thing that killed me the absolute most both on my very first playthrough, and all my subsequent ones, made so many fights feel like success or failure was entirely dependent on whether he would decide to do that one combo or not.
A huge issue I had with ER when it first came out and still do (there's always a "try it, hate it, leave it, come back and try again with a calmer and open mind because I still want to like it" phase) is just how purposefully it's built against the player. DS1 and maybe DS3 are like a fair dungeon master in DnD. They have a story to follow and other than a few cute tricks the combat is fair for both sides. ER is that one asshole DM who studied every character in the party and their abilities, then specifically tailored their own self-insert bad guys to counter that. The real "nuhuh, that's not what happens!" kid in the playground in elementary school.
@Dio-xo9rv I alwayw wonder if people going "git gud" actually feel they're being smart or something... if anything, it's kind of transparently pathetic. Like, got no arguments, just say "git gud" and tell yourself people are impressed. Or something...
I am halfway through the video and even though I agree with some points like the delayed attacks, I genuinely feel embarrassed looking at some of the B-rolls of the author fighting these bosses and think that this is just a major case of skill issue. 80% of the complaints make no sense when they are coming from somebody me who beat the game 4+ times. The only boss I had real issues with was Malenia (duh) and Mogh but only because I tried fighting him at RL 60 or so right after getting the invitation. Still, by the end of the first hour of the video hearing the same complaints just gets tired. “Boss is too slow, boss attacks too fast, boss doesn’t attack enough, boss is too aggressive, boss is too passive, boss doesn’t reward aggressiveness, boss doesn’t let you stand around and do nothing” etc. You complain about one thing during one boss and then say you wish the other boss did that one thing and vice versa. Almost all of the points raised in this video are genuine skill issue. Fire Giant’s balls is one example: they are not random, they don’t follow you for “some time”, they trigger when you’re nearby and explode afterwards with a delay dealing damage. You need to pay zero attention during the fight to not understand that. That’s it. The fact you couldn’t figure that out after beating the game 4 times is on you. Same goes for Rykard - you can stunlock his entire phase 1 with charged R2s, and then the boss can barely hit you. I don’t think I’ve ever even seen that ground attack you claim is impossible to dodge because I learned the mechanics of the boss. His second phase was harder, yeah, but not unfair. Also, the game has spirit summons, and you literally said you aren’t going to use them because they take away the aggro of the bosses or distract the gamk bosses, and then you complain about the bosses not giving you enough time to react. Spirit summons were added to the game for a reason, Bleed was overbuffed for a reason cashes of war were added for a reason. Just because you’re an int build doesn’t mean you don’t get access to items, spells and skills that make you tanky, just because you’re a full strength build doesn’t mean you can’t use elemental attacks like frost or bleed. Lastly, this game is specifically designed to punish people for dodging AWAY from the bosses, like it was in the previous games. You can dodge the entire combo of Margit if you dodge into him, not away from him. Maybe you needed another play through or something before making this video
This sums up everything I thought about the video. I would not consider myself good at the game at all and I'm still able to get to the end and beat it. Some points are alright but in order to be good at the game you need to learn the delayed attacks. That's how the game works and that's what you have to overcome. I'm not saying the games perfect either, Elden Beast sucks and whatever but learning the game is part of the challenge.
i dont think it invalidates the critique even if he is not the best player to play the game. Some of the elden ring bosses are hard and unfair be it malenia randomly gaining super armor or morgott randomly extending combos or start a new one before the the old ones animation ends. Just even looking at the final bosses being two back to back no breaks imo tells they just wanted to make the bosses hard whatever the cause is.
@@wolfves2280 Malenia doesn't get hyper armor randomly... It's very consistent. Morgott does not extend combos randomly either nor does he start a new one before the previous animation is finished (WTF does this even mean, honestly?) This video is trash and a large amount of the complaints are just nonsense.
Ty man i was so infuriated with this video and seeing the comments that just wanted a place to vent about their difficulties didn't help either but this is exactly it. Even if some complaints were valid like the amount of running for some bosses the duo bosses and some stupid attacks keep in mind that he's comparing it with the other souls games which have the same problems and in some places even worse. Bloodborne is literally full of bullshit attacks that kill you in one hit so i don't know what he was complaining about there
I feel the introduction of spirit ashes created a balance problem: it was meant as the easy mode many people seemed to have asked for, but using it now makes the bosses too easy, whereas not using spirit ashes makes some bosses impossibly difficult.
Which ashes are the most powerful? I'm new to the game, at the capital, and in my experience ashes have amounted to nothing more than momentary distractions.
@@scipioafricanus2212 besides the obvious op mimic tear, Nepheli Loux, Dungeater, Banished Knight Oleg, and Black Knife Tiche are all very good summons
@@scipioafricanus2212 Banished Knight Oleg you can get in a Limgrave dungeon so that one is accessible very early on. Mimic tear is located in Nokron not far from the actual boss fight. Nepheli, Tiche and Dungeater are trickier to get since they are locked behind NPC quests. Tiche is by far the most busted of that bunch with her ability to deal max health percent damage with some of her attacks.
@@raijinthemaster88 uh no what? Why would anyone do that when the topic is elden ring bosses everyone's opinion is based off THEIR experiences personally I hate and love Morgott whenever I see him in a new playthrough i just skip him but on my first playthrough I spent like 5 hours learning his patterns and it really felt fun and thrilling dodging everything a real butt clencher for every move and the feeling of reward when I finally beat him gave me an energy boost for days and gave me the best mood that being said by the time I beat the game I lost the muscle memory and fighting him felt like pure agony once again it just isn't fun having to deal with the strings that sometimes feel infinite his delayed attacks are also reactive which is what people don't get and when he reacts its instant so if you see him trying to do a delayed attack and hit him he will instantly strike down hitting you which is why you have to dodge it which once again will extend his strings.
With a couple bosses, mainly Margitt and Maliketh, I think the best and most fun way to fight them is by attacking them while they're attacking. Maliketh has a really good example of this, the overhead slam at the end of his main basic combo. During that attack, if you run up and to the side of him a bit, you can get in a fully charged heavy (with a halberd at least) while he's still attacking. After playing the game a couple of times, I think this counter, single tempo kind of playstyle is the most fun way to play. That doesn't help with all of the bosses (especially Malenia, with random poise and waterfowl), but it makes the ones that it does work on way more fun. Also, I found Beast Clergyman way easier if you stick to his hip and circling to your right
I beat Malenia solo with the Royal Greatsword doing this. Attacking during their combos nullifies most of the bosses' "issues". Mohg's attacks are timed to the frame so that you can dodge an attack, dodge attack, then dodge the next move.
@@sirgoo9962 While an honestly neat method for Malenia (every friend I have with the game beat her this way), the problem is it's build-locked. It's like how there was only one correct way to fight Kalameet, or Midir, and especially in the latter case if you didn't have the right build it became 'better get a perfect run or else'. Couple this with the way ever taking a hit from Malenia means attrition is impossible for any other build, and the problem is even worse.
@@Pyre trust me buddy, this was my first souls game and I have beaten her with every weapon class while getting hit a ton. I’m not good, different just require different strategies, especially colossals. Just practice a bit more and I’m sure you’ll get it! 😊
@@sirgoo9962 I found watching this video that most the issues comes with a hesitance to actually attack. I started the game with a Great Shield build so I had this easier than most, but I quickly began to notice that on nearly every boss I could find holes IN their combo to deal damage. I've even managed to get chargee heavies off in the middle of combos while still avoiding damage Elden Ring really encourages a more Risker but far more rewarding play. Attack. Use heavies, charged, Junos, and counters. They are all so good! Not only do they do a lot of damage compared to the safer lights, but they also do well with poise which absolutely begins to melt if you okay aggressive. Everything in Elden Ring encourages an aggressive playstyle, but they don't allow that easy.
1:02:50 The ENORMOUS input buffer totally flies under the radar for a lot of From's fanbois, and is a great criticism. It's why I don't enjoy the pvp as much as I used to. Now that I've played games with more well-designed controls, it becomes glaringly obvious here. This design flaw/choice, if fixed, would make SO many of the delayed attack spam bosses more bearable, and eliminate a large portion of the "clunk" inherent to the Souls series. They did SO well with BB and Sekiro, so we know they're capable
maybe I got accustomed to it, maybe it's different controler vs computer (I play on Computer), maybe I'm somehow canceling the inputs, but in Elden Ring it rarely felt bad to me whereas if I go back to DS3 my god it feels awful. I remember finding that decision absurd from the first boss all the way to Nameless King. With obvious exceptions of bigger attacks aside, missing a dodge input shouldn't get you hit on two completely separate attacks. On Elden Ring the main issue I have with input buffering is on charge attacks, where very often I've let go of the charge attack input as soon as the animation for the fully charged attack starts, only to have my character decide to do a second normal attack after the charged attack animation ends moments later.
Absolutely agree. BB is my favorite and I need to play Sekiro! I like a lot of the elements to the weighty combat design that's inherit to the Souls series. However, I would really like to see From create a new IP completely different from anything they've made previously. Maybe something in the opposite spectrum, where the combat feels more akin to games like, Ninja Gideon or Dragon's Dogma. Mix melee and ranged combat together in a more fluid way than what's present in thesouls games. While I prefer Souls to Dragons Dogma overall, I enjoy the combat mechanics of DD so much more. Idk I have many ideas of how they could greatly improve upon their current formula that has been working well for them, but I'd really like to see them do something entirely new and unexpected. Also, they need to use a new engine.
They have had the same exact problems in all the games since DeS. The cult fan base praises them with every single game and says they can do no wrong so they never fix anything or improve on anything because the cult will eat it up and tell you to "git gud". There's no worse fan base in the world.
@@A_Black_Sheep94 the input buffer isn’t nearly as bad in the other games. They intentionally made it bad in ER as a means to cheapen the difficulty a bit further
I love the video, it's nice watching someone who actually fights the boss and doesn't just show the same clip of them beating the boss over and over again. Seeing someone fight and lose honestly kept me hooked into the video waiting for you to succeed and cheering for you as well.
I always thought they should be separate bosses. Like you defeat radagon then walk down the crazy tree beast room and fight the beast. The beast after radagon feels so wrong to me imo feels so disjointed and not fluent at all
@@datiger39 i believe that Killing Godfrey and then having a final showdown with Radagon and the Elden Beast was a giant waste. It would have been cool to have a short exploration of the inside of the Erdtree instead of this slog. If you add Maliketh (and his draconic guard) it really becomes a bosss rush. And not a good one.
Finally playing through the entirety of Sekiro REALLY makes me wish I could use the wolf's moveset in Elden Ring, it would obviously break some bosses but some bosses would be insanely fun to fight that way. Elden Ring has always made me feel that way too, it's very much a game full of Sekiro and Bloodborne bosses where you get to be a Souls boss, they're super fast, flashy and badass, and you get to sometimes attack in sometimes really neat ways, there just that kind of desync to it all.
After beating godrick I'm super close to quiting as I just find the game unjustly frustrating (souls vet here). But there's time where iv thought that if I was playing as my bloodborne character then it'd be an extremely fun game 😂
@@ghostparty2062yeah this is pretty true for me. The bosses are mostly frustrating with a few bits of fun. The defiled chalices were much less frustrating and everything felt fair.
@supergold9390 yeh man. Two weeks later and Iv officially quit 😂 I decided the game just wasn't worth the headache. Might give sekiro a try as its the only one I haven't played it 🤔
@@ghostparty2062sekiro is the most satisfying to finally learn to play out of all souls-like , just stick with it and learn the move set you will get a chance to actually be the boss 😎
It would have been so easy to replace the Valliant Gargoyles with a single Black Blade Kindred. You can even justify it by saying that the Gargoyle is looking for the root of death blight under the direct order of Gurrang.
As the first two replies properly demonstrate OP's point, the community is more worried about labeling one another "cringe" than having a civilized discussion.
I feel like Elden Beast should come before Radagon. Imagine walking into an empty room to see it transform into the EB boss room, and you face it and defeat it only only to afterwards have Radagon appear from withinside it, who we then face and defeat. The ENTIRE GAME builds up to Radagon, and yet the final foe is something we hear mentioned ZERO TIMES. It's like if in Dark Souls after facing Gwyn, we are then facing a giant fire crab afterwards... uh.
Nah if you read between the lines you can actually see it coming, radagon to me always appeared to be a pawn in disguise of this great being. I know what you mean though since while playing bloodborne for the first time (my first souls game) I didn’t see the moon presence coming at all.
Here is the thing about delayed attacks. If they are animated correctly then they would be easier. For example mohg's attacks are very good animated so even if it is delayed you can dodge them easily if you see it. Same goes for godfrey l. Though some of his attacks (especially in the 2nd phase) are really frustrating and rely just on timing
@@sojinnn Well yeah, unless you do the story stuff connected to a certain boss, you won't know the story details of said boss. It's very arguable that the story beats are too out of the way and easy to miss, but it's another thing to say they aren't there at all.
You really nailed it on the head when you said you are often watching the boss more than fighting it. I felt that when fighting Placidusax and watching him teleport 100 times and then shoot his mega laser. At least it looked cool, while with Elden Beast it was just obnoxious how often it ran away. I would have preferred a second phase for Radagon, even though I struggled him with a lot. Fighting the Elden Beast felt more like a chore than anything once you realised how to dodge its (admittedly well-telegraphed) attacks because of how skittish it was. I guess it was meant to be more of a spectable than fight, but Radagon can beat you down so much that you just want the EB dead rather than enjoying it.
@@BBQcheese The obvious solution, but it still felt like an annoyance when I could dodge every attack but the EB would just run away everytime I got in melee range. Maybe I was just unlucky with its AI because I went behind it a lot, but I wish it would have had more attacks where it spinned or slammed into you like the dragons so you could punish it more.
@@BBQcheese I killed it after a few tries, so I did "get better", but I can still find it an obnoxious boss. But what do you mean by standing where it surfaces? Does it move around in a specific pattern? It tended to swim to the other side of the arena when I faced it.
“What’s stopping [Malenia] from running up to the wall and smacking it a few times to heal, too.” I’m crying 😂 just imaging her sprinting off and pounding the wall then coming back to waterfowl me.
You’ve beaten the game multiple times? Your gameplay looks like my 12 year old brother when we co-op’d for the first time. Like seriously, it doesn’t seem like you have the experience or the skill to be accurately critiquing the game to this extent.
He might be using stock footage. Plus you don't have to be the best at a game to see it's flaws. I'm not the best at Elden ring, I'm on my first playthrough and I'm in the mountain of the giants and even I can tell it's become an area full of overpowered enemies that three is no point fighting anyway because they drop so few runes. I've been one shot at 51 vigor by certain enemies. Open world doesn't work for souls games. It's nice at the start of the game, but it becomes pointless later on. What's the point in enemies you have to just dodge past because it's not worth dying for 2000 runes. Endgame should have been 3 or 4 straight dungeon areas.
The worst thing about Godrick is that even he isnt a unique boss, as Godefroy the Grafted can be found in an Evergaol in Altus, which is even worse when you consider that he doesn't even have the spectacle of Godrick's phase 2 and the dragon head
Its also a disappointment from a lore perspective as it removes the importance of godrick and the idea that he is a lunatic for grafting, as many before him in his lineage has done it
@@TheeAcid That makes absolutly no sense here. No one is complaining that they can't beat the bosses. They are just criticizing design choices. I don't see how someone saying repeat major bosses spoils the major bosses themselves is a skill issue.
@@TheeAcid Nah, the design of the Bosses are just terrible, beating a Boss in this game is like a relief, different from others soulsborne games, the Bosses are actually fun
lorettas delayed strike is really nice, because its her only sooo delayed attack, feels like her ace in the sleeve rather then another wierd fighting style
You nailed it when you said that From is desperately trying to one up themselves with every game when it comes to difficulty, but by doing that, they have basically made a game with bosses that defy the universal language of gaming. The delayed attacks, the gank fights, the endless combos that end with the boss jumping out of the way so you can’t hit them. Everything they do was designed to artificially inflate the difficulty so that From can pull a fast one on their fans. What’s worse is that, I’m a From fan, but I’m not the “git gud” kind of From fan. If you try to criticize the difficulty in any way, those fans are always just gonna be like “no easy mode, bruh, go play something else.” The Git Gud mentality has basically shielded these games from any criticism. And it’s bled into other games too. God of War Ragnarok’s berserker fights are full of this nonsense.
I never played a FromSoft game until Elden Ring, and I feel very disappointed by the boss fights. Especially because the normal enemies are so intuitive and natural to fight against. Everything is properly telegraphed, and if you successfully dodge/block/parry, then you get an opportunity to strike back and it feels great! But then you get to the bosses, and.. it's none of those things. All of the immersion goes away and it becomes a game of creating a flowchart in your brain of what causes the AI to do which animations at which times. You're no longer a hero fighting a monster, you're just pressing buttons on a controller to move hitboxes around in a virtual 3D space by memorizing animations and AI patterns. So now I'm wondering... Are all FromSoft games like this? Is it even worth trying any of their other games after this terrible first impression?
@@cleverman383 my man as a souls veteran I can say a few things... Dark souls 1 - erase the memory of elden ring and enter this game as a wide eyed child.. you'll be blown away... it's just not a game.. it's an art ..the dark souls 1 , first of his name , was truly a lightning captured in bottle . Tis a short game so read all the lores and item description, take in the vista , enjoy the interconnected world(no teleport bullsh*t)..and get blown away..this is the only game which has made of ponder in the soul-verse...sure the QOL are absent and animations are dated , but combat is extremely fair and very methodical yet hard . Maybe tis my my nostalgia speaking, but for me it's 10/10 Dark souls 2 - watered down elden ring , unfair and bullshitty bosses and level design , thing elden ring got it's inspiration from this game , if you wanna play, play with seeker of fire mod , but this game has a very unique world building and interesting story , makes you wonder , and mazula is the best central hub in souls verse Dark souls 3 - Froms' attempt to be a more accessible game , way more linear , yet fun , the combat is fun , fair, hard and responsive, truely a castlevania gothic lovecraftian world...direct predecessor to elden ring Bloodborne/sekiro - the true git good games , extremely fair extremely fun extremely hard/easy according to your skill level , combat is fluid , bosses are damn hot , but these are not RPG like souls games..these have a more streamlined experience, maybe that's why they are so polished Finally elden ring - the black sheep of FROMSOFT... "critically acclaimed" and GOTY because more brain-dead and toxic people bought it and played it.. making our community COD cult 2.. defending it won't simply help...tis what it is.. unresponsive, unfair , artificially difficult , recurring bloated open world trope( just removing quest markers doesn't make it revolutionise open world , these fromsoft drones gezz!) Hard to believe From delivers this hot pile of shit after dark souls 3 and sekiro Conclusion - play all those prev games(maybe not dark souls 2😅) ..you will love those and understand why Souls is so big today... I'm sorry elden ring had to your 1st souls game , it's like picking boku no pico as your first anime instead of Death note
I haven't played GOWR yet but from what I saw of the berserkers, yeah I agree with ya. Like they probably went "jeez we have 12 berserkers we need to do and we need to make them hard, what do we do?" instead of say focusing on only a few of the berserkers and maybe excuse the rest by saying that they had passed on or that Thor encountered them or something. That way you don't need to do the 12 bosses just for the sake of the mythology while still going "Jeez it took Thor to finish these ones off" but I guess that would be a plot hole cause the hilt stuff. At least the Valkyria queen is better although I would say that she does a bit too much damage, at least she ain't the berserkers.
In dmc5, there is an enemy similar to magma wyrm who can also do a consecutive high damage charge attack; this enemy's attack is harder to avoid with aggressive tracking and really high damage; but guess what; the game mechanics make it actually interesting. You can try to stay on the move and avoid him while until he's done, but you can also try to maximize safe air time and shoot him from above to do damage throughout it; you can play the royal guard game and ofcourse, you can do the ultimate gigachad move of just parrying him to stun him altogether. All these options varry in risk, reward, and skill requirement. This is why watching you have to walk around and wait while wyrm does his charge attack four times in a row is so painful
The laser guided tracking on every attack is the most bs thing that the bosses do in my opinion. Like a 180 spin in a fraction of second is just ridiculous
I really started noticing this in DS2 and it just never went away. It's horrible game design, but at this point I can only assume it's completely intentional.
Was fighting Niall with a summon once. He did his jump attack while targeting the summon, then turned midair 180°, completely defying gravity, to attack me. I had no chance to dodge because he completely broke physics in that moment, and I was too astounded at learning he was a gravity master to get out of the way.
One thing which i always found awesome about the maliketh fight which makes it an absolute breeze is something that isnt mentioned here. Youre supposed to dodge into him for most of his attacks, putting you closer to him, which in turn makes you avoid a lot of his sweeping moves and his big circular AOE. Another thing about him which makes him super easy is that if you stay close to him, he literally wont do his big continuous combos, and will actually slow down
I find it funny at the start of the video he said his approach to the bosses didn't change as his skill level improves, then he shows his footage of Margit where he's fighting him completely wrong by staying in front of him at all times and getting hit by the fast dagger follow up. How can he say his approach to the bosses doesn't change when gitting gud if he never got gud. But honestly it's the issue I've seen with basically every review of Elden Ring. People try to fight these bosses like in DS3, where you could just stand in front of the boss, roll their whole combo, then hit them when they idle (basically turn based combat). Elden Ring takes a lot from Sekiro in that the bosses won't stop attacking if you try to do that you have to interrupt them or hit them during their swings. It's interesting Matthew seems to have understood that for Sekiro but not here.
Godfrey definitely has a flow state you can get into, and it starts by rolling to the right. So many of his attacks come from the left due to how he's holding the axe. Rolling to the right gives you much better punish windows, especially on his huge overhead swings (it's long enough to get in fully charged heavy attacks). Rolling to the right also puts you in a great spot to watch his axe and check if he's going for the 3 hit combo instead of the 2 hit version (you'll see him pull the axe back just before he swings the third time). Once you get that down, you can punish the 2 hit version with ease. Further, his stomp attacks are really hard to dodge, but they're very easy to jump over. Throw in a light jumping attack to punish the stomps and you have a solid rhythm for the first phase. Second phase... God help you.
Godfrey is fuckin awesome, my favourite boss. I love how relentless he gets in the second phase, and the sheer spectacle of his throws and aoes really blew my socks off.
Godfrey has such a nice rhythm to that I feel is only matched by malenia and margit/morgott all his attacks are readable all are dodgeable and the aggression keeps you on you toes and staying in a bosses face in this game especially is so sweet Hoarah loux is just aoes panic rolls and delayed grabs lol
The only thing that suggests relation is his quest line, it's entire possible (likely even) to play through the game without even encountering him or his quest
My problems with Margitgudscrub are threefold: First, the game keeps pointing you toward him. Every time you rest at a site of grace, there's a beam pointing into where he is and as a result, many new players (as well as Souls vets like myself) ended up immediately running face-first into his trap. Second, even once you go in, learn that he's way out of your league, nothing tells you HOW out of your league he is and as a result, new players can end up leveling up to an insane degree hoping to beat him, only to wonder why, even 20, 30, 40 levels later, they're still having so much trouble battling him. There are two ways to get stronger in FS games: Level up your character of level up yourself. Unless a player enters the game knowing this, they'll likely think it's all just a numbers game like so many non-FS RPGs. Finally, the game already did this...TWICE...the grafted scion and the tree sentinel at the beginning.
I'd say the Tree Sentinel does it better overall. Unlike Margit, you can actually run away, reinforcing that sometimes the best way out of a situation isn't fighting, but running. If you go due to Margit and drop a lot of runes, there's no way to reclaim them without beating him because Homeward Bones no longer exist.
@@Laterose15 I get what you're saying, but consider the fact that the entirety of Stormveil Castle is technically optional. You can technically just go around Margit as well, if you so desire.
I had to look up a guide on how to beat him on my first character and only won because my jellyfish summon spit on him too hard so it was VERY anticlimactic
I can’t believe you’ve managed to do multiple play throughs with feeling this way. My feelings are extremely similar after just finishing my first run, and I really don’t think I’ll be rushing to do a second run.
Same, i only briefly went back to my "second" playthrough to test out something i discussed with a friend about (related to an update) but dont feel like i actually want to jump back it, and the only way to i found to circumvent issues like the over aggressiveness was just to alway carry a ranged option, like a bow or quick spells, but that's only viable by late way if you want to properly mix it with melee builds
So disappointing. I was really excited to get stuck into it after playing Demon Souls, Bloodbourne and Sekiro, but found myself just wanting it to all be over by the time I reached end game. Learning the boss fights just didn’t seem fun the way previous games were, and I found myself just giving up and using summons. Totally agree about needing a ranged option all the time too, I had a maxed poleblade with ice spear ashes on it, which really helped for the bosses I just couldn’t even be bothered with.
I find it weird he enjoyed Sekiro yet a lot of his complaints here are things I also complained about Sekiro when I started (before gitting gud). There is no punishment for being agressive, bosses just won't take turns anymore by resetting to idle after every combo, you have to find your openings by getting behind, outspacing, or jumping. Margit is actually an S+++ tier tutorial boss because he will drill this into you if you try to fight him melee only. If you stand in front of him after a combo finisher he will ALWAYS follow up with the undodgeable fast dagger. If you roll or run behind him he won't and you'll have a massive opening to heal or hit him with a charged R2. I do think having a ranged option helps and makes the game more fun though, since most bosses have some kind of ranged attack themselves. I like to carry throwing knives to keep their poise from resetting
@@highlightermarca-texto3281 I don’t think you realize that 1.) in Sekiro you have many more abilities and versatility than in Elden Ring. In sekiro, you’re actually the one with the advantage. That’s why it works in that game and not Elden Ring. 2.) try to fight margit with a colossal sword and see how well just going behind works for you 😘 3.) Imagine trying to fight Isshin but as a Dark Souls 3 melee build. That’s what Elden ring feels like. They upgraded the enemies but just didn’t do much to upgrade the player
@@iboildogsalive6535 nope, you just suck. There’s legitimately not much else I can say unless you provide me with footage of you fighting the bosses so I can see what you’re doing wrong, but if you legitimately think you don’t have the tools or the speed to handle Margit you’re blatantly incorrect.
Elden ring follows the old arcade style of difficulty; trial and error. The problem with the delayed attacks usually isnt that they are delayed, its that they have literally no tell to the attack coming out. Theres no realistic way to dodge some of these attacks on the first attempt outside of just running away and waiting for them to stop acting like a moron with their sword arm held up for 9 seconds at a time
Absolutely. So many bosses will hold there weapon over there head and track you for ages, and then bring it down faster than you can possibly react. I'd rather play using instinct and reflexes rather than a stop watch 😂
I wanna know who trained these demigods to fight. Holding up your weapon for a 5 second long overhead strike is the absolute best way to get yourself shanked in the gut.
@seanbean3070 whoever trained the demigods also trained them to slam swords the size of the chrysler building down so fast that the moment you twitch a muscle to stab them, you've been ground pounded through the arena and into the eternal cities.
@@seanbean3070 And you can do that: you can hit Margit while he's winding up. This can help you feel the timing (it's always two hits then parry with a Samurai, for example) or it can help you stagger Margit (his low poise is a huge incentive to get frequent hits in, even small ones)
How is he right? Elden rings boss design is the same as the others. When people just refuse to learn how to games combat works and then they cry about it of course we are going to say things like get good
@@idlegameplayer3756 first off thats one attack on one boss. Do you think that just because one attack is poorly designed, that means that the game has poor boss design? Once you learn waterfowl dance, the rest of the fight is very fair and fun imo. Running and jumping is an easy way to dodge waterfowl dance, which he forgot to mention. He acts like you either need to change your build or learn the hard circle strategy. Meanwhile all it takes is running away and jumping when she comes towards you. Waterfowl is only one attack. He complains about delayed attacks throwing off the pace of the fight even though thats the whole point of them. They throw off the pace so it forces players to actually learn the bosses moveset rather than mindlessly spamming dodge and not getting any better at the game. The guy in the video clearly expected every boss to be doable first try and got frustrated that bosses actually require effort to learn their movesets
@@idlegameplayer3756there are so many ways to counter that attack. Even if you can’t, spam dodging likely will get you out of it if you’re not some 3 year old who can’t react.
@@idlegameplayer3756 I know you were trying to be sarcastic but running away and jumping at the right time is easily the most consistent and easiest way to dodge the first flurry of waterfowl dance, even at point blank range. So yes, jumping really helps for that move.
About the infamous Waterfowl Dance: I will say that the egregious part of that attack is specifically the first rush. As demonstrated in your own footage, the second and third rushes are both reasonably programmed to miss if you hit the right spot with good timing. (These tips assume you have the camera locked: Second rush you aim just to the left of where she starts, roll as she leaps at you. Third rush you use similar timing, but straight ahead, then roll backwards just in case you aren’t out of range of the final hit) HOWEVER, the frequency at which she uses Waterfowl is sometimes absurd. I have had her attempt the attack *five* times in the first phase alone, one of which I successfully interrupted (still don’t know how), and the fifth one ended me. If it weren’t for that first rush being so ridiculous I think Malenia could easily be one of my favorite fights in the series, but the way the game as a whole is I don’t want to replay the entire thing for one boss at the end. As a quick aside, git gud is a stupid response to valid criticism or requests for help in fighting a boss. Just tell the person how you dealt with the problem. It’s not hard.
Malenia is probably my favorite boss in the game, but yeah there are some problems with that attack. She should've had a cap on how many times she's allowed to use the attack because the amount of times she does use it can vary so much to the point where the player may have to rely on good RNG for a solid attempt. I also think she should've had an ample recovery window after the attack so that the player could whale on her, like a reward for dodging the move. Instead there's next to no opportunity present.
this happen weirdly to me too cause I can get bad RNG on her WFD, wtf with WFD after WFD when I used Ohga as my spirit ashes when Ohga successfully make her fall and she gets up just to do the WFD again 😭
What the hell are you talking about? Not a single sane person cares if waterfowl allegedly programmed to miss or not, this attack is straight up copypasted from Sekiro. It's literally Isshin's technique. This is fundamental problem of this game - instead of doing their job, FS just released a pile of assets without tweaking it properly
28:53 There’s also a huge problem with the regal version in particular: it will just die sometimes after teleporting. The first two times I did this boss I never actually fought it. It instead just disappeared and insta killed itself
I like Joseph Anderson's take on the Elden Beast. "I wouldn't be surprised if they simply forgot to enable Torrent for this fight and now they're too embarassed to admit and fix it"
Yeah, that actually seems about right. It really feels like Torrent should be enabled
A quick: “sorry guys!” and fix would be the lesser of two evils, I feel.
lol what a shit take 🤣 EB is fine, you just don't know how to fight it
I wouldn't be surprised if they did forget
@@AshenWednesday nah the shit take is defending that garbage boss.
Bugger runs off just as you get close to him so unless you’ve built a bow/crossbow build or a magic build then good luck running him down to get a collective two hits on him only for his attacks to instantly kill you no matter your armor or health.
Edit: I've beaten the game multiple times. I have no issue in beating the boss. But that does not mean it's a good fight. The boss is poorly designed. That's what I'm complaining about. Ya'll seem to think I'm complaining about it being too hard and impossible to beat.
NO.
No, I am saying that the fight is tedious and annoying made worse by its inclusion after a much better fight. The boss runs away constantly and has many attacks that deal an absurd amount of damage with little to no room for error. Like the falling star attack which really does feel like we were supposed to have torrent. Furthermore the issue is not that I am unable to deal damage, but rather the window for dealing said damage is small because the bloody thing runs away every six seconds.
I am like 7 new game plusses in. I have NO PROBLEM BEATING THE BOSS! Having said this, I really must stress. Being able to do something doesn't make it good. I love this game. But if you love something you should be able to acknowledge when there's a problem. Elden ring has a boss problem and the elden beast is the horrible rotten period on a mostly amazing game.
SO ENOUGH WITH THIS "GIT GUD" NONSENE YOU CRETINS!!!
A great boss like Ishin tests all the skills you learned during the whole game, a boss like Malenia tests your ability to watch a youtube video on how to dodge waterfowl dance.
Lmao
As if entering the Bloodborne or DS1 DLC was an easy, comprehensive task with a very clear process
@@lorenzo8208 It was. we as player were worse, but you had the clear tells on when to roll in each attack and the longest combo was a 3 hit even for artorias. Manus introduced a crazy one shot combo but even that had a very simple answer: run.
@@Hyde_Lawrence totally not, entering both DLCs was a very random process. It varies from person to person, but it feels so illogical to me. Also I don't think shorter combo the better, if that's what you're implying there, but you do you
@@lorenzo8208 Oh, since the original comment was talking about a boss mechanic i assumed you were talking about the same. Yeah, DLC entrance was cryptic as fuck, but that was on purpose to put the community at work, there's millions of players, someone will run to it and put a message in the ground or upload a video then everyone knows.
On the other hand, It's not about the lenght of the combo is about having a clear opening/reward after succesfully dodgning an attack, which in ER is less favored towards the player. ej: after evading 6 attacks from radagon instead of propper punish LIKE ALWAYS you also neeed to watch out for an explosion on the ground that might happen or not lmao
My biggest issue is how many bosses you have to constantly chase around the arena to even try to hit
And after you chase them down just to get one hit in, you'll have to wait another 10 years for their combo to finish to get another hit in!
@@amysteriouspersonintophat1458 godrick I hate his spinning tornado attack and his second attack I hate because of the fire
Placidusax is probably where I felt this issue the most. By his 2nd phase he'll keep taking turns with teleporting and going for a flying attack. It just drags the fight because you can't do anything but wait while he's done. It's simillar to the Ancient Dragon in DS2 who spams his AOE fire breath in the air and you just have to wait for him to land. Bosses like Midir and Kalameet don't use moves like that as frequently and it helps make them much more engaging and active fights, because there's usually not much downtime.
I talked mainly about dragons, but you can fit this philosophy with a lot of fights in ER.
elden beast
Use anything other than a strength weapon
I'm surprised there was no mention of easily the most hated boss in the game, the Godskin Duo, a fight that fools you into thinking it's like Ornstein and Smough where one is slow and does massive damage and the other is fast and uses hit and run tactics but in reality both of them are ridiculously fast with no end to their combos and not to mention that bullshit nearly unavoidable roll the fat one does and it's mandatory to even get to Malekith
To be fair, Forum Azula is pretty crap from start to finish IMO. Way too many tough bad guys at once, dragons descending from nowhere and filling the screen with lightning and explosions, lots of DS2 style level design (confusing and easy to fall to death). From put all their effort into the early game and not enough into the late game.
@@adammclaughlin845 It's a beautiful location with cool items and enemies. Said enemies and dragons are also functionally no different from other enemy groups because running past enemies is universally the most optimal choice even in the early game. Also confusing level design isnt a problem if your concern is to actually have fun and not speedrun, since there is still a lot to do in Farum Azula. The Duo is bad, but everything else, including the goated boss Maliketh, is really good in that location.
Ngl as soon a I heard there reputation, I instantly cheesed them as soon as I got to him
@@adammclaughlin845all endgame areas are absolute horseshit starting from consecrated snowfield where they become run past all enemies zones since there is no point fighting an imp that 2 shots u
godskin duo wasn’t that hard???
I hate how fromsoft knows gamers have gotten used to their attack animations so now every enemy drags his weapon for like 49 seconds before swinging it incredibly fast just to arbitrarily disrupt your timing by making the enemies move in a completely unrealistic and unnatural way
It really doesn't help when nearly every boss and alot of enemies are like this
Lmao y’all are jus bad and can’t admit it
@@soundsbyzer0*B R A I N L E T*
@@estidelossantos6271 says the guy who can’t even give an actual reply
@@soundsbyzer0"y'all are just bad" is also not a real response
I can consistently dodge almost every boss but i still think the amount of delayed attacks is just cheesey and makes the fights less fun, its not as much of a fight as it is remembering timings and button inputs
I think the lack of Marika's Statues in Raya Lucaria makes a lot of sense, but I would have loved to see them replaced by Radagon Statues. Not only would this tie into the lore of the Marika/Radagon are the same being, but it would also promote the idea that these statues are still intact because Rennala still cares for Radagon.
That or a site of grace outside the boss room
But Radagon was never worshiped as a god?
You're a genius.
Or you know, put a stake of Marika outside the boss room since most of Rennalas followers renounced her as their champion anyways and no longer follow her.
If your lore is getting in the way of quality of life features in your video game, thats your intuitive sense as a GAME designer to rewrite your story to better serve the actual game play.
@@sasaki999pro nah, the lore affecting the game is better. Its forgivable since Rennala isn't a hard boss. You don't suck at the game do you?
One thing that i really wish they did, is have the camera zoom out on bigger bosses. They did it in sekiro, and it makes it soo much easier too see what the boss is doing when you you're close and attacking. Now with no camera change, it sometimes makes the boss figh just seem cluttered, sparaddic and sometimes unfair.
(Just realized while waching, this happens on some bosses, but is inconsistent)
They also did the camera zoom out with Ludwig in Bloodborne. It’s something they’ve been capable of doing for a long while, they just simply choose not to
They have had the same exact problems in all the games since DeS. The cult fan base praises them with every single game and says they can do no wrong so they never fix anything or improve on anything because the cult will eat it up and tell you to "git gud". There's no worse fan base in the world.
@@A_Black_Sheep94 Just wondering, how many times have you copy/pasted this exact comment? I've seen that exact wording before, even on different channels lmao
@@amberhernandez Not exact. I have actually copy/pasted some comments. This isn't one, there are similar ones though, if its even me.
@@hughmungus431 If the player has to "fix" anything its bad.
I agree with you on Hoarah Loux, but not on Godfrey. Godfrey was the only boss I felt like I could reliably dodge in the whole game because he was telegraphed properly every time.
Yeah the axe version of him is a pretty good fight. The naked guy covered in blood version is terrible. Any boss or baddie that has a move that just bich slaps you sooo much and sooo fast that you just gotta take it and then probably die isn't a good boss. That's just str8 up overly unfair.
I know im late here, but I feel exactly the same, Godfrey is fantastic, clear telegraphs, punish windows that are actually consistent without any bs extra extensions, and no extreme delays that just look silly. But I just dont know what they were thinking with hoarah loux, grab moves have always terrible in these games and I have no idea why they keep making them a thing. From has never implemented one of these well and I just wish they would stop trying. A boss whose moveset revolves almost entirely around them was doomed to be a failure.
Golden godfrey is honestly TOO fair imo, he has like 3 attacks and they're super clearly telegraphed so I crushed him. On the other hand, I don't love the enemies that drag their weapons around just to fake you out or have a billion attacks, so I don't really know what the best middle ground would be
@@hazelgill5805 well said. Also the game just doesn't really have a difficulty setting. It's just default hard and gets a lil harder with new game plus modes. That's it.
The real hardcore players yawn at how easy the game is for them but they no lifed melania fights over 1000 times so of course they can beat her pretty easily. I'm getting there myself as someone who's bested her about 30 times now. Just beat her without getting hit in a solo noble slender blade vs her and that's it.
If you got it on pc, get mods. You can sort of adjust certain things to make it easier and or harder and honestly create a better experience for yourself than the one from soft came up with lol.
You know how Gideon is a really easy boss? lol. Modded Gideon is a different story lol that guy has some serious nuke like magic!
I love jumping through his ground stomp and slapping in the face before dodging the follow up. A lot of people forget that jumping is an option to create your own openings instead of dodging until the boss gives you one. For Godfrey’s stomp if you roll through and try to get a hit in you’ll get hit but not when you do a jump
"the other games sped you up with the enemy" that finally got me on board with what you were saying. I think that's the biggest issue with all of this. BB and Sekiro had insanely fast bosses but you were also insanely fast
Same with ds2, Ds2 had bosses that are fast but not faster than you CAN be, they also have recovery frames that are just as slow as yours are or just as fast as yours CAN be.
Definitely agree with this, the transition is rough for BB and Sekiro players. I also feel like ER is a FP/Magic focused game while BB and Sekiro are melee focused games so that makes it extremely difficult for people to transition over to ER from those two other games. ER just punishes melee focused play styles with their bosses and it demands so much patience since the bosses are so aggressive. You just have to accept that ER is not BB or Sekiro in the end and you cannot play it the same way. Best thing to do is to lose the stubbornness and just adapt to how ER wants to you play the game by using the tools you’re given rather than ignoring them. Or if you really want to be stubborn, then prepare yourself for intense attention to detail on boss attacks and become far more patient than you ever were for the previous two games.
@@Gamerprice40 Except it so boring to spam weapon art and cheese boss.
@@magikazam8430 Agreed, Elden Ring can be cheesed so bad with so many things that it’s not really all that fun. It’s only fun the first couple times you annihilate bosses but it gets old real fast. I wish ER had better middle ground between melee and magic
HAHAHAHA casual
The most annoying thing for me in ER is abundance of huge, colossal bosses (compared to main character height and size). Its like Miyazaki wanted to do something really epic and cinematic by forcing player to fight freaking buildings, but it ended up in encounters where you have to cock and ball torture bosses/enemies because you never see anything over their belt for the whole fight. Also, its super dumb to die because big dude dropped a sword in couple meters from you. These aoe attacks are outrageous
True. I didn’t realize how out of place a lot of these gigantic bosses were until I went back and played DS3 again
Get good
Skill issue, learn to roll peasant
That sounds like u suck at dodging lol.
Shadow of Colossus without all the mechanics of fighting colossi, basically
The worst part about Elden Ring is that it has problem that have been fixed in previous games for a while. Massive boss ? Withdraw the camera so you can see what's happening. Gank boss ? Make one more agressive and sign post whichever has the range "F you attack". Hyper agressive boss ? Make it flinch as much as the player so that it feels fair.
And yet, they ignore every.single.fix.
Malenia does have the last one
@@NotVinegar Until she decides to have hyper armor for certain moves for the lulz but yes, she technically does the last one.
To me it feels like From just smashed all their games into a single amalgamation, without checking if the final game is actually enjoyable.
It's like everything that is good about ER is sheer fucking miracle, because if you downgrade its graphics, you could easily fool people into thinking that it's a game from ~2012, with how many dumb design decisions it has. Many of which were solved by From themselves in their previous games
@@raven75257 yes bro, thank you. The game is not built around its combat at all. The bosses and many of the enemies just do not feel fun to fight given the tools you have. These bosses have so little openings, and attack for so long that it gets boring have to Wait to hit them. It’s crazy that if they just added the sekiro deflect to the game, it would be 90% better.
@@J25-p3h There's actually a mod for that.
To add to that even further, Moronia or whatever she's called is rumored to be a scrapped Sekiro boss, which would explain a lot.
There's also a basic enemy that is one to one (except for visuals) copy pasted from sekiro
I understand people liking ER, but the way they're praising it like it's the second coming of Christ of frankly insulting
As much as I love this game, it’s hard to ignore some of the BS in the boss fights, people always say malenia is good because she’s hard but it goes from hard to unfair very fast.
Literally get good
@@destroylonelyxkenkarsonlvu1783 waterfowl dance? The Lifesteal? It’s reaches a limit
Well she's a goddess. The gods don't play fair.
@@storageaftermath dude she’s like the main boss for being hard, she is meant to be unfair. Out of the 165 bosses in the game at-least 1 should be op and it’s really really late game.
@@destroylonelyxkenkarsonlvu1783that’s dumb
The camera problem can be solved by what Generation 5 Monster Hunter games do; whenever a monster is about to do a wide scaled attack the camera zooms out to give you the vision cue you needed.
These things will make fighting things like the Ulcerated Tree Spirit or giants much more comfortable.
The only monster hunter i’ve played is world, and i know what you’re talking about
Safi’s Sapphire of the emperor, Alatreon’s Escaton judgement, and Fatalis’s Schrade’s demise all zoom the camera *way* the fuck out when they occur
I feel like that would fuck with the pacing of elden ring
Like, there’s a clear audio cue when they happen, and they only happen once or twice a fight, usually accompanied by a break in combat several seconds beforehand so you know something’s coming
But Elden ring’s combat is too irregular, and attacks such as those happen too often
I feel like you’d get motion sickness from your camera doing the equivalent of a chicken pecking grain
@@tacticallemon7518 then maybe they should make their camera slightly further from the start, it was a bit too close anyway
Fromsoft doesn't like doing anything that makes them change the same spaghetti code they've used since demons souls
They do that to a degree with sekiro, such as in the guardian ape fight and demon of hatred, where the camera zooms out as they prepare an attack, it sets up a cool cinematic moment and gives the player an indication to get ready
MMO's have been letting uou control the camera to zoom out when fighting gigantic bosses for literally decades. Fromsoft can't figure out nor don't want to figure it out because it would make their games more fair and less frustrating
My biggest gripe with the twin gargoyles is that they wasted such a beautiful boss arena on them. The huge open cave, the giant waterfall, the pretty rock formations, you would think they would have made some kind of aquatic monster like maybe a giant squid creature or something along that line to complement the boss arena.
Cnidaria Rex
The gargoyles was one of my favorite boss fights in the game, I really enjoyed how difficult it was to manage the two of them at once. It really worked for me so I'm surprised to hear that others didn't like it.
No, I wouldn't thing
Try fighting and defeating the black blade kindred gargoyle, that boss is utter garbage
Well no because it’s elden ring and they’re only allowed to have 12 different boss fights
The thing that frustrates me the most about elden ring is all the builds i was excited to try but then discarded after i realized they would make the endgame a nightmare.
you mean like holy damage?
Exactly!!!! I love this game but theses issues make it my least favorite From Soft game
For me it's all the weapons and cool items I get that I can't use without completely changing my character, and then grinding out runes to buy the upgrade materials for them. I suppose this is more just me being annoyed with stricter rpg style games, and not just ER and souls games alone, but it's always something that kinda made me not want to explore in ER.
100% I have only finished the game once but have started many new characters that always make it to about the mountaintop Of Giants before I quit. The problem is that every build I make is either underpowered or overpowered. There doesn't seem to be a middle ground, I've even tried to look up guides in an attempt to make a fun build but everyone only seems to be interested in creating the most op meta build possible instead of actually fighting the bosses and having fun. The over tuned bosses and terrible overall balance are the sole reasons I cant enjoy it as much as the other From Soft games.
I have all achivments on all souls games except demons and sekiro and your right. In all other games i feel like anything is viable but in elden ring i just don't wanna go to the endgame with builds i know will make it pure hell
Crazy how many people don’t think that these bosses have problems. It’s also crazy how most, if not all of the problems are amplified in the dlc
I also think these bosses do have their issues, but I disagree with how greatly this video exaggerates some of these points. Can’t judge on the dlc yet but I feel like some of these bosses deserve a little more slack; except renalla & valiant gargoyles
Dlc is hot doodoo for real
I only really liked Messmer in the DLC. Radahn's first form was pretty decent.
FromSoft has an insanely dedicated fanbase, like the only other fanbase as dedicated are gacha games with their waifus and shit.
So yeah saying anything negative about the game is just heresy to them no matter how valid, because whenever you point out that a boss is badly designed they answer with one of either skill issue or shit like just use mimic.
@@ToastedTomato-ej3fw what exactly was exaggerated?
One thing I like about Morgott and Mohg is that there are couple of symbolic dichotomies between them. One is that they have a sort of heaven and hell kind of theme between them, with Morgott using holy magic to conjure weapons of light and Mohg using fiery blood to attack, in addition to the later growing devil-like wings later on.
The two also have a dichotomy in their fighting styles. Morgott is a fast, dexterous enemy who is capable of changing the speed and rhythm of his attacks. Mohg, on the other hand, is significantly slower and more predictable, but has much longer reach and hits much harder per blow than Morgott. This is reinforced by their boss weapons scaling largely off of dexterity and strength, respectively.
Never actually thought of this
Makes me appreciate their characters since they also internalized their abuse from being Omens much differently
well nice angel/devil comparison i didnt thought about before. Also Morgott sword has flames (like archangel sword) and mogh use trident ( well belzebub/devil perk)
@@bowser5388 Plus Morgott guardes the Erdtree which is literally the home of god and goes high up in the sky whereas Mogh is found in the unterworld/underground.
One thing I will say about Astel, I was one of the seemingly very few people who didn't do Ranni's questline at all, so my first exposure to Astel was the Stars of Darkness variant. The Stars of Darkness variant is just straight-up much stronger, more health, more damage... and if you haven't seen _its_ version of the grab, do yourself a favor and check it out. Its absolutely ridiculous.
Its more ridiculous that they thought a single attack should deal that much damage. It's downright offensive
@@kommentier9884 I do wonder just how many points of damage that grab deals. At 60 Vigor and 40 Endurance with the sturdiest armor I could wear without fatrolling, I'm pretty sure I _still_ got oneshot.
@@aidankeogh9994 According to Vaatividya it deals 2410 damage to an unarmored character. I still don't know how much armor actually reduces damage by so for simplicitys sake lets just assume its about 20%. Thats still deals over 1900 damage in a single attack. Which comes out so fast, silent and subtle ( and also a little bit delayed because OFC it is) you probably will get hit by it, the first time you encounter it.
@@kommentier9884 I didn’t even know Astel could do that till the darkness version just one shot me…..was super cool and fun to experience.
I was in the same boat just running into him in a snow mine and got my ass handed to me. That grab attack was crazy and that encounter kind of ruined the climax of rannis quest for me
Note, the fireballs for the fire giant don’t prime to explode until they are near you. So you’re meant to trigger them, then get out of the way before they detonate.
yeah he was doing that in the gameplay videos
That’s what I figured out later on in my fight, it’s unfortunate that the game doesn’t have any way of showing it.
Meaning in most bosses before hand you get a habit of “oh shit that’s an attack that can one shot have to run away”.
The only time I realized I had to actually ‘detonate’ them is when I accidentally went too close and dodged
@@Pint-Sized-Slasher it does show you, they flash before blowing up
@@Pint-Sized-Slasher those fireballs are also the same incantation you can get very early in the game from one of the early evergaols. It's called flame of the fell god. It's actually kinda overpowered because enemies dont react or dodge, and it usually knocks them down and allows you to stunlock them. This is the only way I was able to defeat Malenia lol flame of the fell god would follow her from behind, explode, knock her down, and I would spam fire attacks and keep knocking her over.
It's one of the only fire giant attacks I can consistently avoid, because it's well telegraphed
The amount of bosses that are just two variants of one another is really bad. Throwing two nearly identical bosses in one room is really lazy and creates an artificial difficulty.
Remember that time you fought one? Well now, TWO! Gimme my game of the year award now please : )
Oh boy you're gonna hate ds2
If i could have half the bosses but twice the quality then SIGN ME UP PLSSSssssss
Good point. But i think making more unique bosses would span even more game development time and resources. I liked the gargoyle duo, and the godskin duo is not that terrible. The dungeon bosses i never even considered to be that big of a deal if they are reskins. The game is too big to have unique bosses for every dungeon, ruin or evergaol. And some of them are pretty cool as well and make sense lore wise
@@4ballssssthose dragon riders were easy and was in a nice room it also fit the lore
Souls games have really come to this point where their identity as roleplaying games with tons of options for building characters and their identity as hard games with super hard bosses are really starting to clash.
We're stuck fighting giant bosses that can throw barrages of beams and other stuff at the player with a moveset that hasn't changed that much since Demon's Souls.
either that, or you go in insanely overpowered with a small army of summons and rivers of blood and just melt every boss. Game is less balanced than life.
@@nikotsapaliaris4919 😂😂 facts
@Niko Tsapaliaris I present dark moon blade almost as bad as rivers of blood, more powerful but fairly slow which atleast gives it a bit of balance
It's similar to the problem with superhero movies: The super has taken over from the "hero" aspect. It's all about bosses getting bigger, and faster but the devs don't seem to put much thought into actually balancing the player so that it works.
@@Gamfluent Nothing's impossible, just extremely unfair. Placidusax, Elden Beast and Margit below level 50 come to mind.
I think most enemies, not just bosses, attacks track too well. There're definitely times an enemy will instantly spin 180 degrees to strike you mid attack animation. Bosses also have ridiculously lengthy combos with little time to damage in between.
Positioning comes in to play, simple directional dodges opens them up for heavy, AOW and R1. Jump over attacks and shoot projectiles to get them to input read you and attack when stuck in animation. This isn't Dark Souls where you wait for openings you make them.
Yea, the amount of times where i’d see a boss wind up for a big attack, so i’d move off to the side to punish, only for them to breakdance to hit me pisses me off
Before getting elden ring, i was told about how there’s a “dance” with bosses
Elden ring feels less like dancing with the boss, and them dragging you by the balls and making mosh pits look like yoga
@@tacticallemon7518 play dark souls 3, it has that dance you're looking for. I've been a soulsborne player for a long time and Elden ring bosses are shit
@@Numenorean921I second this
@@ghostparty2062 theres even a boss called dancer! you cant lose!
I feel like Elden Beast should have been more similar to Moon Presence from Bloodborne in that it could have been a kind of secret extra boss. Radagon feels like a much more fitting end boss, and Elden Beast feels more like Moon Presence thematically.
Honestly u kinda right. Like I feel like it shoulda been a secret boss if u take the chaos or ranni ending, because you’re directly opposing the greater will in both of those endings.
It reminds me quite a lot of the Moon presence from Bloodborne and the Radiance from Hollow Knight. I was actually quite surprised that the Elden Beast is a guaranteed boss and not a “true ending” boss like those other two. It feels like it would be and yet it isn’t
I agree 1000%. I wish Radagon had 3 phases like the Sister Friede fight in DS3 where he got progressively stronger, and then Elden Beast as a separate fight if you fulfill certain conditions.
It’s interesting, my headcannon has been that it was originally intended to be that way.
Gerhman is a pretty difficult fight; and once you kill him moon presence is surprisingly underwhelming. It feels like moon presence was scaled damage and HP-wise with the expectation that you’d fight them back to back… yet in the actual game once you kill gerhman he never comes back and you wipe the floor with this supposed edlrich god
On the other hand, Elden beasts massive health pool with Radagon’s already not easy fight feels as if it was meant to be an optional secret final boss, which replaces Radagon once you killed him. The fact that they are back to back totally feels like an oversight
Another comparison would have been DS2 SotFS's final three bosses. Mandatory Throne Watcher/Defender into Nashandra, and Optional Nashandra into Aldia.
You could even change some of the flavor of the fight depending on what ending you're trying for (Ranni, Frenzied Flame, all the generic Ages).
"Nothing links Yura to Mohg" when the first instance of seeing Yura is killing a Mohg follower together ? And every part of his questline is killing mohg followers ?
ok but other than the several direct links like fighting the phantom and elianora there’s no links whatsoever :)
Literally lmao
And to get the item you have to go all the way to a church right slap bang near the start of altus. I mean who was checking churches all the time in elden ring, not like they had important things to draw you there
@genghisfarn bro every church has a flask charge or a quest line wtf you mean
@@nippy1230 i think they were being sarcastic.
What i find most frustrating about the bosses is how weightless they often feel
in all the souls games attacks have had the same weighty movement as you are bound by (although glichy in places)
while in ER , huge bosses can quickly take swings & leaps with hardly any windup
Plus a problem with giant bosses (that some souls games had as well) : the camera, kind of hard to see the bosses moves when all you can see is their croch
That last point is why I hate Radahn. While you can solo him on the ground, he's very counter intuitive to learn. As half the time you really can't see what's happening to learn at all.
I can only think of 1 instance that a giant boss was handled right (divine dragon) . Every other giant boss suffers from the same issue.
I think Midir almost solved the "camera struggling to fit the large boss on frame in any cinematic manner" issue since most of the time the camera actually does a decent job of keeping track of him from the front. I say "most of the time" because the camera sometimes loses track of Midir when he raises his head while you're locked on. Overall, I would say he was mostly successfull with that, but there was still some jank. Divine Dragon has an excellent camera, but he's always positioned on the same spot, so the camera never has to move much.
Precisely this, because Fromsoft needed to add artificial difficulty so they made most attack timings completely unrealistic to throw people off.
I always compare this to Sekiro, where imo the only bosses with whacky timings and delays are gyoubu and the monk, both of which have light weapons and one of which is basically levitating, making them fairer and more realistic than fucking morgott bending the laws of physics to roll catch you with a gigantic hammer.
If you look at other games with huge creatures, they generally have you fighting part of the boss at a time, or you have mechanics to fly around it, climb over it, etc. ER kind of wastes the huge bosses, because most of the time, you can only engage it by stabbing it in the shins and when you're that close, you can't see what it's doing..
i would have liked to see mention of the godskin apostle and the godskin duo, since i think the solo fight is extremely well made and one of the most functional bossfights in the game, whereas the duo fight has a LOT of issues
Yeah I had so much fun with the apostle, it was a joy to fight, as was the crucible Knight (the first time I did get sick of them pretty quick but still hold that first fight in high regards) it’s odd that my favourite fights are all “minor” fights
I for some reason haven't had any issues with godskin duo in either of my 2 playthroughs, I think it's because I was severely underleveled for both their solo fights, so have memorised their movesets perfectly.
@@cosmiclikesminecraft i feel the same way. a lot of the small 1 on 1s with "minibosses" were a lot more reasonable than the real bosses. another good example is the godfrey spectre which i found to be great and im surprised it wasnt mentioned in the video considering his opinions on the refight at the end of the game
Skinny godskin is a good solid, fair fight imo. Fat godskin is an abhorrent fight due to the instant belly attack and the rolling attack.
@@PacmanLickThisGuysAs and then there’s the duo…
i find that slow heavy weapons are not being taking into consideration by most boss designs. the recovery window for bosses is just too small and most blows end up in trades. of course not every opening thats suitable for a fast weapon should be sufficient for a heavy weapon, since that would make them overpowered, but in Elden ring you simply dont get big openings. its always: huge combo > small opening > huge combo. i found myself often have a way easier time after i switched from big slow stone hammer to my hellebarde. great video btw
They also don't consider smaller faster weapons, when I was dual wielding daggers or claws i had a hard time getting close enought to hit the bosses after dodging their attacks, not to mention the hitbox is so small that sometimes the attacks will hit the enemy and don't do damage, when i switched to a piercing sword the fight were way easier to play
@@sergiolanchazolopez1918 they do, you both arent very good at them though.
@@flamingmanure Colossal swords involve spamming the poke attack. Smaller weapons are legitimately a fucking pain to use against larger bosses. It's an issue if the other weapon classes aren't hard to master but give the same if not better benefits than Colossal weapons and daggers despite those weapon classes being much harder to master.
Granted he had a rather tough time, but Dan Ghesling beat every single boss in Elden Ring with a Greatsword and never leveling Vigor because his chat kept telling him to get more HP. Watching some of the boss fights he did really highlighted how bosses have more openings than people think.
Trading blows is a strategy, with the right armor, talismans and shields not even malenia can deal damage
This video is so funny now that the DLC is out, where the negatives of boss design are ten times worse.
Wow someone is salty
@@Soniman001 what you people get out of sucking off Miyazaki and refusing to acknowledge the flaws these games have I will never understand
@@Soniman001mouthbreather
@@bronmill33 wow someone is super salty
@@Soniman001yea you wouldn’t be as salty if you stopped breathing from your mouth tho, just a tip
You don’t have to reply to this btw I have reply notifications turned off so I wouldn’t know if you replied to me or not nor will I check. This is because what I say isn’t subjective, it is objective and final, consider yourself educated 😊
Sekiro has the most refined combat system they’ve ever made, and if From wanted Elden Ring’s bosses to be as fast as Sekiro, they should’ve allowed for the deflect/visible stamina mechanic to be employed.
Sekiro was a smaller game and that is what made it so much better in my eyes. With ER you can tell they made this huge map and didn't have enough time to fill it with interesting and unique content. Maybe the DLCs will make this better but I have a feeling they will just add more to the game instead of making what there already is and isn't that great better.
@@nomercy8989 What he's talking about is a whole combat system, fs won't implement anything like that in dlc. They'd have to make a whole new game from scratch to implement sekiro features
@@ligmafigma9631 I think having faster input, quickstep or dash like in sekiro so your character will start running right when you hit the button instead of wait to see if you want to roll or not will be enough to make late game boss more fun to deal with
I liked Sekiro. i played that right before ER. While I found Sekiro to be harder, I also found it fairer. I could tell that it was my own reaction time that was the problem. I could see how I was supposed to get round an attack, I just didn't have the reflexes to do it. ER, I just found all the bosses to be spamming really cheap attacks and it was more frustrating, even though I was able to get to the end.
A posture or rather "stance" bar alongside the health bar would've been so nice to have. Then you'd be able to know what the stance is at and if it would be a better idea to aggress and go for the stance break or play a bit more reserved.
Dark Souls 3 felt like fighting Bloodborne bosses with a Dark Souls character
Elden Ring feels like fighting Sekiro bosses with a Dark Souls character, like you're literally not equipped to deal with some of their shenanigans
Incorrect. Provide evidence.
@@Nrzpokrter bosses have low sweep attacks that sometimes cant be jumped even if they look like they should, as well as LONG repeated combo strings that would fit right in with the parry system from Sekiro. The Sekiro perilous strike system of stab/sweep/grab feels like it should have been added to ER with maybe a 4th option based on elemental affinity
DS3 bosses were so fast and aggressive that you had to spam roll, and it felt like they were designed with the rally mechanic in mind in terms of their aggression. I like all of these games btw
next time, dont declare that im wrong and then ask for evidence when im definitely correct
@@asininerealms And yet, you still havent listed 1 instance where the player isnt properly equipped to deal with a boss attack in ER. So you provided nothing.
@@Nrzpokrter your response basically boiled down to "Yeah, but still."
lol
@@asininerealms No, it really didnt. I just pointed out how you failed to name 1 ingame example to support your opinion.
I’m glad you mentioned the hyperarmor issue on Malenia but I’d like to expand on it. If you perform an attack that should stagger (put her in critical hit state) her while she is in hyperarmor, she won’t stagger. She’s the only enemy in the game that works like this, and when you’ve come to know when she would be staggered by your move and she goes into a hyperarmor move, punishing you, it gets really frustrating.
There are specific moves where she never gets hyper armor, but like everything in Elden Ring they are extremely rare guaranteed openings that don't even look like openings and occur rarely.
@@feebleking21 Yeah the thing is, she can use these hyperarmor moves whenever she wants. On my faith, strength character, I used to go crucible horns to send her flying then immediately use crucible tails as she’s getting up. Sometimes that would result in her getting staggered and me getting a critical hit, sometimes she would just hyperarmor it and hit me. There are even instances where as she’s getting up she goes into waterfowl dance and there are 0 frames where I could have staggered her.
@@feebleking21 didn't expect to see you here, well maybe I should've expected it.
@@elien902 if she could use hyperarmor whenever she wanted then it would be impossible to beat her no hit at level 1, so that is untrue. There are specific attacks where she can't hyperarmor.
@@feebleking21 there are windows where it is safe to hit her for sure. I wasn’t arguing against it. My point is that there are specific instances where she can decide to go into a hyperarmor move or not, like in the crucible horn / tails example I mentionned. It’s just annoying that sometimes a combo like this one can result in immense damage and sometimes you will get punished since she went into a hyperarmor move. Any other enemy would have staggered if they had the same “stance bar” except her because for some reason hyperarmor makes her immune to stance breaks.
Edit : Upon rereading my comments I can see why I can be misunderstood. I wasn’t clear and I hope this clarifies it.
"Even the worst of the worst fights in the game, or even the whole series, don't have anything on Elden Beast."
I won't tolerate this Royal Rat Authority disrespect.
Or even the grave robbers fight from the same game. That fight was disgusting.
Let's not act like dragon god doesn't exist
Bed of Chaos
Yeah, I don't think the worst of Elden Ring has anything on the bullshittery that older FromSoft Games had. I probably did the idiotic run to the Bed of Chaos through the garish lava (and that awful, grating burning sound) a dozen times only to fall into a hole three seconds after entering the arena.
Let’s not forget the Ancient Wyvern
My main problem with the game is that, “staying close to him isn’t a good idea because he has attacks faster than you can roll.” That shouldn’t be a thing in a game about reactions and dodging
that is false
All the bosses are reactable and can be dodged once you learn them, including the waterfowl dance, from day 1 they were all fine
@@Destrogen That’s why multiple bosses have been patched multiple times
@@TheMidian46nah,its not. show me your gameplay. i played every souls and like many of you have 100% all of them/beaten them dozens of times but the bosses in elden incentivize either trading hits or backing off until their giant combo is finished. this may not be the case if you play cheesy but thats boring
My problem with this entire video is summarized in this comment. Elden ring is not a game about reacting and dodging. Rolling i-frames have consistently been the most accessable and reliable way (save DS2) of negating damage. Elden Ring was one giant lesson in forming alternative strategies. Wide variety of consumables like pots, perfumes, and buffs, physick flask, greater variety of shields, overpowered ashes of war, and summons are all readily accessible across the game and many bosses, virtually all of the ones listed in this video, encourage you to experiment with those strategies outside of timing roll dodges.
Hell, guard counter + stance breaking alone trivializes most of the game and people are over here calling ER badly designed because roll dodging is harder than it used to be. My brother in Christ you have other buttons to press.
The demon princes in DS3 were such a good fight. They take turns properly and you get a nice visual indicator where and when the inactive one is doing its poison breath attack. And then the Valiant Gargoyles happened.
It's so good. Up there with OnS for duo fights.
You get the start of the fight with one hyper aggro and one hanging back and shooting you with the poison (with a super obvious telegraph to the point where it's almost an arena hazard - affects your positioning more than anything). You then get the like 30 second window where they're both 'enraged' and it's frantic as fuck before you get back into the pseudo 1v1.
Then the second phase is a souped up version of the demon you killed last with the giant laser/meteor attack depending.
One of the best fights in the series imo
O/S and Demon Princes are the best duo fights in the series, period.
valiant gargoyles is basically if both demons started enraged and also could breathe toxic mist at literally any point in the fight lmao
@goggles789 Nothing stops them both from spitting poison at you at the same time over and over.
@goggles789 what cover? The arena is an open field, there is no cover.
I was off-put by the incredible amount of unnatural delayed attacks, and near-instant follow up attacks to logical combo finishers many of the bosses displayed in this game, and I'm glad I'm not the only one that was annoyed by them.
You're not alone, friend. So many of the enemies and bosses feel like The Nameless King from DS3
Yeah elden ring is honestly pretty weak in the souls series. Overhyped
@@SoggySlopster So many people aren't ready to have that conversation, unfortunately
@@loganberkheimer1857 nameless king is like the opposite of what your talking about. i think a better example would be pontiff sulyvahn
@@seldomsweet The unholy bastard child of them both, in all reality. The never ending combos of Pontiff and the delayed attacks of Nameless King, the worst of both sides
I think the issue having gone through Elden Ring a few times is that the game feels as if a lot of the bosses are balanced around the summons the game gives you. FS WANT you to use them. So bosses end up feeling overturned because they’re not balanced to be fought one on one. Going through the game with and without summons on bosses are completely different experiences
Very true. Which means only the most stubborn and badazz of players can solo their way through all bosses. I did it. But I had to git gud lol and that didn't happen over night or in a week. Took months of on and off playing to get a real feel for when to dodge and when not to. Fighting the same bosses over and over again to get a real feel for how they attack you takes forever... Years even to hone the skills that much more.
But at the same time, don't be a dick to players who are not no lifers such as myself. It's a hard game for those who have lives lol.
And then we have Malenia who looks at your summon like her own personal heal flask
@@soyborne.bornmadeandundone1342some of the bosses aren’t to bad to solo even for newer souls players but using the variety of ashes was fun to me and I still did most of the work so I didn’t feel cheated
But even if that’s the case, why didn’t they update the boss AI to beat able to deal with multiple enemies? If they truly "balanced" the bosses with spirit ashes in mind, why TF didn’t they update their extremely outdated boss AI? This game is either excruciatingly tedious w/o spirit ashes, or completely trivial with spirit ashes. They should’ve completely committed to one. Trying to play both sides significantly hinders the quality of BOTH playstyles...
I first played elden ring idk you could summon. All I remember is I could summon NPC for certain fights in DS. I thought the same applied here. I fought the first 4 bosses without summons. Royal pain but I did it. Then found out I can summon. Mimic is my boy and I love having him in difficult bosses lol
There are tons of reasons Sekiro bosses are generally much more fun to fight than Elden Rings, but one major one is the delayed attacks in Elden Ring. Elden bosses motions are super unnatural, to where it just teases with your instincts and is extremely frustrating. Sekiro on the other hand has very real looking motions, animations, and strike speeds. Sekiro is still a really hard game, so I don't understand why they used delayed strikes as such a crutch for Elden Ring.
I wholeheartedly agree. In Sekiro enemies mostly test your reaction and you don't necessarily have to learn their moveset frame-by-frame to deflect. Attacks are very fast but timing is not awkward and/or spammy (even flurry attacks are readable).
Wind-up attacks >>> delayed attacks.
@@Gamfluent I think it came out that good bc they only focused on one playstyle and polished it to perfection, i love the customization in Elden Ring and Dark souls but i think i would prefer if they would drive their focus to one specific playstyle for their next "soulsborne" game.
@@Gamfluent this is an interesting point, because i firmly believe, the more freedom of how to play you give a player, the less focused and elegant you can design challenges.
elden ring really shows this, along with TotK as a more recent example
@@Gamfluent the more options and ways to play a player has, the less focused on one playstyle/approach you can design your challenges as a designer.
sekiro only really has one viable type of playstyle, ergo as a designer, you know exactly what every single player who plays the game can do and might do. so you can design bosses for example in a complex a way as you want, because the options of what a player can do are pretty limited and you only have to consider those few options.
you get what I mean?
@@Gamfluent i never said they weren't, i said the opposite. they are designed around too many playstyles and are worse for it, compared to other games
I think the problem with Malenia is not her lifesteal or Waterfowl Dance individually, but both of these things combined. It makes the move far, FAR too punishing for how strict the allowed response to it is. The lifesteal also feels like a very contrived way of forcing the player to do the fight a certain way, especially odd since they could have just given her melee attacks Scarlet Rot buildup instead. It's more lore appropriate for her and still punishes over-reliance of your shield without completely invalidating entire builds and playstyles by being able to be planned around with items and gear. Hell, she gets it in phase 2 anyway.
I wouldn't say it's lore appropriate for her to use Scarlet Rot in her first phase but i do understand your point, personally i see Malenia as a completely no hit, no summon boss so that you have to engage in the dance with her.
@@Haveldorf seeing malenia as a no-hit no-summon boss is kind of irrelevant..?
@@kabershshkabersh4272 in what way?
@@Haveldorf because it’s not a no-hit no-summon boss
That's because you're not meant to be using a shield. You go invincible when you dodge
I'm surprised you didn't mention the Demon in Pain/Demon from Below from the DS3 DLC when talking about the gargoyles since that fights a really good example of taking two similar enemies and making them work in a unique way. Most Fromsoft gank fights tend to be just them plonking down multiple dudes in a room but the Demon Prince felt like something that they actually put a lot of thought into. DS3 in general has my favorite gank fights in the series since they often felt "designed" so to speak as opposed to how it feels in this game and certain fights in the other games where they put them in and hoped that they'd work.
DS3 in general is still peak boss design for the series imo, though the only one I did not play is Bloodborne due to being on PC. Everything feels very fluid, fair, and has a clear tempo. Even the endurance fights make it fairly intuitive to learn the boss's rhythm, it's just up to you to get familiar enough with it to last for longer than usual. You still see some of this in several of Elden Ring's bosses, but then you have what I consider pretty bad offenders like Margit or Malenia that throw tempo out the window.
Not only do the two compliment each other like the fully evolved concept of bell gargoyles, they also pull an Ornstein and Smough in buffing up the demon of your choosing to create a more focused single fight tailored to your preference. It was then that I realized after all the past games they had perfected their multi-boss formula.
Then Elden Ring happened.
@@Mecceldorf I'm still not sure what's the worst gargoyles in the series. The DS2 bell gargoyles, or the ER valiant gargoyles. DS2 is just cruel with throwing that many in a cramped arena, but their AI remains simple, only so many can be active at once (unless you intentionally provoke more), and their HP isn't too high. ER doesn't throw as many at you, but they are both pretty tanky, have complex movesets since they're designed as solo fights, do not take turns being aggressive, AND have longer ranged attacks INCLUDING poison. Okay fuck it, I don't even think the DS2 gargoyles were this bad.
@@hughmungus431 Damn, I actually found Bloodborne the easiest (or atleast I found it much easier than I was expecting and was a little dissapointed, wanting it to be harder). I think because of the speed of your character + rally(healing on hit) + gun being a ranged parry. I actually made it like halfway through the first area before I died and got my weapon lmao.
Tbf, at this point (since I used to be on xbox before ER/PS5) I'd played every other game in the series bar Demon's.
Try a parry build on BB it's really fun and the 30 fps actually helps
1:32:29 this is exactly what irks me about so many Elden Ring bosses, it’s all just one sided and dodging. There’s no more those engaging back and forths like I loved so much in the bosses of DS3 and ESPECIALLY Bloodborne. And even Sekiro since every hit can be a back or a forth depending on if your parry is successful or not.. in Elden Ring it’s just staying away or dodging for 4 years while the boss flails around like a lunatic till you can finally find a tiny millisecond after 4 years of dodging to finally get in a little poke. It’s just exhausting and not as instantly rewarding or satisfyingly engaging to lock into that flow state with a boss.
I use the dragon kings crag blade which has incredibly high stance damage, and I feel like when I’m fighting bosses, like malenia that it is a back and forth, so idk I feel like I’m in a flow state, especially using some incantations, namely the crucible ones, which can be really satisfying
@@andyteddy1536 So everyone should abandon the 1.5 million different playstyles for optimizing stance damage?
@@High_Rate136 Naturally. After all, the point of all Souls games is to pick the most optimal build. What are you, a casual? Where did you get the idea that all playstyles should be viable?
....Guys i think you might just suck. The entire game is figuring out how to weave your attacks into their attack patterns why are none of yall doing that
@@vibevizier6512 Bob, weave, oops, 1 shot at 40 vigor because I rolled to the right instead of left. Guess I'm bad. I'll stick to othe older games
I give Fromsoft credit for at least TRYING to give us a new tool with the guard counter. But it just immediately loses its usefulness after you venture outside of Limgrave. And it’s just a complete non factor against bosses.
Oh damn I absolutely forgot about that mechanic.
and they nerfed one of the few medium shields that actually could make use of it without being a greatshield! Turtle shield got a 16% absorption nerf. I quit not soon after that because the patches weren't helping pvp and I had already NG+ and 200 some hours. I'll play when they release DLC on my NG+ save.
I actually almost exclusively used a shield for this game just because i wanted to engage with guard counters and the posture system, despite not having used a shield since my first time on ds1. It felt pretty great, even trivializing some things like beast clergyman. The guard counter was always very useful.
@@cybercyrus6402 I just can’t imagine using the guard counter against beast clergyman because he’s so freaking aggressive. Are you tanking hits during the guard counter?
@@AstonishingRed Guard counters are incredibly strong. Power-level wise, they're probably a bit ahead of jumping attacks. Yes, most of their attacks are significantly slower than an R1 from any weapon, but roughly the same speed as an R2. Since they fit similar roles, we can compare R2s and Guard Counters; R2s are known for heavier damage and good poise damage. GCs offer around the same upfront damage as R2s, but a massive (like really massive) hit to posture damage.
The playstyle is what turns most players off. The attacks are slower than R1s and you have to play defensively, absorb a hit, and then effectively use an R2 attack. This playstyle is a lot slower paced than the rest of ER combat. I don't particularly know the other commenters build, nor did I really use guard counters all that often, but you can expect to fit a guard counter in any time you could fit an R2. Also I think clergyman attacks have a very weak deflection(?) requirement
Seriously, looking back on the infamous Manus combo after Elden Ring makes me think "What the hell were we so afraid of?"
Even dark souls 3 looks like its on slow mo compared to this game.
Tbf, the manus combo is just as unfair as waterfowl.
@@hodir1914 Yes and No. It is a bullshit attack but it has a longer wind up animation, is rarer, does less damage and doesnt give you status effects nor gives health back to the boss. Its a precursor of waterflow but a much less retarded one.
@@hodir1914 is it? Just dodge backwards for manus, not unfair at all
@@hodir1914 the combo isn't unfair, just keep a couple meters from him when you're not attacking and don't get greedy.
Something you missed about commander Niall that also gives reason to him having his summons in the fight is the fact that he's a repeat boss from caelid. However, in that fight, his allies were a lot of relatively weak foot soldiers instead of two of the strongest knight type enemies. It gave the feeling of him being an intrepid commander leading a group of commoners to greater heights instead of forcing you to deal with the body guards first before you can fight the boss himself. Was the caelid fight perfect? I don't feel so, but it does give deeper context to some of the overall choices with the castle Niall fight
Thats suposed to be a diferent person, but i understand that they have similar movesets. Theres some speculations about their relationship and why one is weaker than anoter, but just speculations as usual.
I throw a dagger on with flame of the redmane to deal with the knights. Then I put my actual weapon on for nial
Cope
for me the biggest issue with niall that i guess isn't entirely fair, is the fight runs incredibly poorly on my computer. i have over min requirements in my computer but the game generally chugs at 40 at best. during nialls lighting frost combos the framerate can lower to 10-15 fps mking dodging them be based purely on instinct since i cant even properly see the animation a it skips so many frames.
i think this is a larger issue with elden ring as the pc version has very poor optimization at times. i even think this is not an issue for just me, as in this video's footage of naill i saw at least a few noticeable frame drops
You know that their knights are strong when you use the branch that turns hurted hostile enemys into allies and they both took 70% of the boss life
am I the only one who found the boss rush in the end game extremely fun, esp maliketh and godfrey??
No you are not the only one i like end game boss rush
You know what soulsbourne boss could've really helped with the design philosophy for Elden Ring? Mergo's Wet Nurse. It has the ultimate 'my turn' moment when it engulfs the arena in shadow and does its shadow clone jutsu nonsense, and yet even then a skilled player can still wrangle their turn back. You can still damage Mergo pretty consistently if you aren't panic rolling and keeping your spatial awareness about you. It had grand spectactle, attacked a *lot*, and still allowed for some serious expression of player skill across all sorts of builds.
I mean you can just run in a circle around the arena and mergo literally can't hit you
@@NotVinegar their point is literally the opposite - even though boss is in onslaught mode, player still can stay offensive if they are skilled enough and have at least two functioning brain cells
Fun fact, you can actually dodge Mergo's phase 2 nightmare attack. Just quickstep twice when you see the wind up. It's triggered by the AOE scream, so if you it, you don't see the clones.
@@cyron5091 to be fair if you use arguments like "if you are skilled enough" then you could extend it to the bosses in Elden Ring too. With the exception of Elden Beast, you can fight every single boss really aggressively and even style on them, provided you are "skilled enough".
Fun fact you can hit Malenia In water fowl dance while still dodging everything
The valiant gargoyles are definitely a time constraints issue because they already knew exactly how to do that fight propely. In fact, you can go and experience it yourself, it's the Demon Prince in ds3. Two nearly identical enemies taking turns to attack you while the passive one spits poison at you from afar. It's the exact same fight except done right.
God of War Ragnarok has a dual fight that is "fair" in a similar manner. One does ranged attacks while the other goes aggressive. And you can even control the AI of the opposing one by not staggering the other.
Comparing Demon Prince to Valiant Gargoyles is insanely bad comparison
@@-zbrdazdola- yeah cause ones good
@@-zbrdazdola-yes because one is good the ither is shit.
Demon Prince might honestly be the most underrated boss in all Soulsborne. Mechanically, it's even more well thought out than O&S. One of the Demons can even switch to a more agressive state which is nicely highlighted in Crimson Red. It's the best Duo fight they've made yet and it's so good... and then Valiant Gargoyles happened.
The worst attack has to be the godskin noble second phase belly smash....it is instant and doesnt give you even a split second to dodge
I would agree but it doesn't do any damage though right? Idk if that was a path change to him or something, but I beat him recently like a few days ago and I could of sworn that move didn't even do damage so It didn't really bother me. Unless I'm thinking of the phase 1 version.
@@ragegaze3482 By phase 2 it will do damage. You're thinking of Phase 1.
I wanna hear this guy critique DLC bosses.
well you haven't had a good experience and if you see him do a critique of DLC and you agree with this video, but he says the DLC is great, you will agree with him most likely.
The bosses were very fun and enjoyable but they also definitely had a lot of flaws that could absolutely be torn into.
“Blah blah blah I never get MY TURN blah blah blah healing is LITERALLY impossible blah blah blah you mean I have to try jumping or parrying sometimes??? Blah blah”
@@BjorkBjork-y4bDark Souls 1 is one of the easiest From Software games compared to Elden Ring which is by far the hardest especially when you remove summons. 😊
Really if I have to critique the boss that’s are really good
There are only 2 bosses that are amazing to me
Messmer and Midra are both amazing in terms of fairness in both mechanics and animations
Bayle is also really good but the camera can be jarring when U underneath him other than that there are some weird stuff like his straight fire breath, etc
I think the Magma Wyrms and the Death Birds are among the shittiest bosses in the game. Not because they're poorly designed or anything like that, but because you run into more and more of them and they all fight the exact same way, but arbitrarily do a lot more damage for absolutely no reason at all. I can excuse the Erdtree Avatars because that's their whole purpose is to hang out around the minor erdtrees and they actually fight differently at each one and that's not the case for the Death Birds and Magma Wyrms. The Death Rite Bird by the Liturgical Town fights the same as the one in Caelid but does ×1000 more damage because "fuck it; it's a hard game, right?" and the Magma Wyrm by the cave where Radagon's sword is the same case compared to the one in that cave to the Altus Plateau. It's not real difficulty, it's bullshit.
well the magma wyrms can *technically* make sense since theyre are people turned dragon so you can say that someone was there and then coincidentally turned but the death birds seem out of place yeah
Ulcerated tree spirit on that small platform otw down to the melenia fight
The thing about Deathbirds is they're out of the way and also nighttime only, so the devs assume you're only running into like 1 or 2 per run. I only ever fought the Death Rite bird near Castle Sol on my first run, I had no idea there were others until later.
Agreed. Those two Mountaintop/Snowfield bosses are straight up garbage.
Magma Wyrms are objectively poorly designed. Its been years since Demons Souls and Dark Souls yet for some reason, the camera is still complete trash in some fights.
The camera is so bad that you resort to more passive strategies like running away from heavy one-shot slams and poke at feet because otherwise you just can't see what the mob is doing half the time.
i know for a fact that Malenia is the leftovers from the cancelled "Tomoe" DLC from Sekiro. Waterfowl dance is literally more or less already a move in Sekiro and this move + the way tomoe was hinted at in The main game make me guess this is what she would have been. with Sekiros combat system in mind, she would have been an absolute fine boss in that game. parrying on timing all her moves makes so much sense. even waterfowl dance
I never thought about that but I could definitely see her fitting in to Sekiro.
For anyone curious, the move is called "Spiral Cloud Passage". I think old Isshin uses a variant of this move in his fight. The description states:
"Tomoe would watch her young master as he gazed longingly at the coiling clouds. The sight meant everything to her."
The way she fights, it's like she's dancing.
Definitely
Also thinking about the "inner" bosses, some moves there feel out of place, like inner owl's giant flaming bird. Makes me wonder if they had a bunch of half completed bosses and when they couldn't finish it, they reskinned it a bit and gave the moves to already completed bosses
Inner Genichiro in particular has a lot of moves that would totally fit a Tomoe fight
“He flips through the air shooting projectiles and doing epic combo spin attacks like he’s a wannabe devil may cry protagonist” I died 😂😂😂
The dlc proves this videos point unfortunately.
Real
100%
And it's a shame Fromsoft fans try to boil down any form of critiscism as "people don't like that it's hard, rather than "I'm not a fan of this philosophy of design you've taken with the combat". There's no room for meaningful discussions.
These are the same guys that made Sekiro, Armored Core 6 and Bloodborne. What happened?
Don’t play more Elden Ring if you don’t like Elden Ring
@leithaziz2716 What happened? People kept celebrating some of the most unbalance stuff. Fans don’t realize this, but the most difficult bosses in this game series are unbalance. Each game kept getting more and more busted enemies as a result.
@@thegifting267Ishin is perfectly balanced.
Funnily enought, the comment about Malenia hitting a wall to heal was true after one patch, were every single attack triggered the healing ability.
To quote a comment on R/Eldenring: "Bug Fix: Fixed the bug where Malenia was able to be beaten."
This is misinformation that is repeated so often people think it is true. Malenia didn't heal of air or wall hits - she was healing of ghost hits, which only occured in multiplayer sessions with severe lag and if someone was close to her attacks anyway. Everyone who has fought her solo would have never encountered this
Haha, given she is an end game boss that is completely optional, she gets a pass from me(although they should have made sure the rune and the boss weapons she gives were amazing and neither really is).
She feels like a dark souls 2 dlc boss that says "oh, you found me...so you must think you're good...we'll see". If she was non optional, it would be a horrible fight.
Here’s my issue with most elden ring bosses. You know when you feel a sneeze about to happen, but it doesn’t right away, so you’re sitting there ready for it, and a certain time later it finally happens. That’s elden ring bosses
How?
That sounds like every boss in souls
@Fundamentally Unorthodox good one
That such a good description
And sometimes the sneeze just doesn't happen after all the build up.
"The result is a game that's extremely defensive without any room to express yourself, even though there's more options than ever to build your character." Around 52:30. This is spot on. I am in love with the amount of freedom to choose what to wield in this game. But I get so frustrated because the windows of attack are so so tiny (e.g. morgott) that I'm forced into a hyper, cracked-out playstyle. There's so many cool incantations I have equipped that I literally never end up using because they are too slow to cast. All I have time for is a quick or sometimes heavy attack with my melee weapon
Sammme. I went with a FAI build because of how cool the incants are, but I ended up never using the damn things because there's literally never enough of a window to cast them. It pisses me off that From overtuned the bosses so much and is now in the realm of artificial difficulty which flies in the face of their previous games' design philosophy. Even "regular" enemies in lategame areas are so damn overtuned that the only way to get them to stop attacking is to bash them with a large weapon and poisebreak them. Try fighting a Black Knife assassin without poisebreaking them, neverending attacks and virtually no windows to get hits in, especially when they jump back after every hit making them even more annoying.
which goes to show how the game is designed to be played with melee weapons like 2H or 1h weapons. Magic makes the game so easy and spammy anyways I dunno what you guys are doing with those dinky incants and magics honestly. ER has the best boss designs by far for me and I love how aggressive bosses are but we are not forced into 'perfect parrying' like Sekiro and have variety of options at our disposal. Also, I think sekiro is heavily overrated. ER is literally what fromsoft wanted to do but couldnt quite did so far. Thats why it is a masterpiece for me.
That's because the game is designed for traditional weapons like swords, spears, etc. Incants and spells were designed for certain situations, that's the point. Obviously some of them are still good in any situation (Lightning Spear, Ancient Lightning Strike, Glintstone Pebble, Night Comet, Faster casting spells/incants like these) But most of them are designed for High Damage, High Risk. It's up to you to decide if you want to take the risk with incants and spells, That's how life works as well, Won't use a knife in a gun fight right? Use a gun
@@kirai1128 i think its more akin to being given excalibur but then realizing your in ww2 up against machine guns. Its disapointing when catch flame or carian slicer remain the best options for casters cuz all the late game spells are too slow:/
Skill issue
1:01:50 Yura is named hunter of bloody fingers. He hunts bloody fingers, thats his whole mission. All blooddy fingers are servants of Mogh and invade others to serve him.
Stop trying to make some big epic point lol. Admit that when you first played and ran into Yura, you were not making ANY connections and didn't even know who tf that red summon in the canyon was. You learned all this later. Stuff that's easily missable which is what his point was. Try to stay focused.
@@soyborne.bornmadeandundone1342 okay but saying yura has "no connection to mogh" is disingenuous
@@soyborne.bornmadeandundone1342 bro how hard you wanna salt and shitpost, he literally gave an explaining. Just because someone is smarter and not full of hate like you, you cant just throw stupid insults with zero content in this debate, this is not reddit
@@soyborne.bornmadeandundone1342stop the cap lil bro lmfao. Why you actin tuff on yt?
@@TrashGobliningno connection that would lead you to assuming you need him to not lose your entire health bar seems fair to me. Just bc he tangentially fights mohgs servants doesn’t mean shit tbh. Most tarnished fight bloody fingers. They’re fucking tarnished hunters. Diallos is a good example. He explicitly states that he doesn’t like the recusants or their lord, his desire to eliminate them AND whoever is running them, and his desire to infiltrate them directly. Yura just goes around stopping murders basically. And you’re using that as proof that he is connected to the big murder coordinator. When Yura is just doing what… well everyone else in the lands between does. Stop tarnished hunters
Also, Yura warns you of agheel, but has no fucking relation to him or dragons whatsoever. He just knows about dragon communion and lets you decide whether or not to use it. He has no side, or connection to it. Just relative information. He isn’t a “dragon hunter” bc he’s got beef with agheel, just like he isn’t related to mohg just by fighting mohgs servants.
I am so glad someone else is talking about this. My biggest problem with Elden Ring were the bosses that just felt... Unnecessarily over the top. I'm glad someone finally talked about and analyzed why some of these fights just don't work. I don't hate Elden Ring but I do hate some of the worst of it's bosses
@@lorenzo8208 it's not misinformation though. These are opinions. Opinions aren't fact they're feelings, so they can't be "incorrect" or disproven. I felt the same way that VG felt about Elden Ring's bosses so I'm thanking him for making a video that relates with how I feel.
@@yourfriendlyneighborhoodbe5996 yes I know what misinformation and opinon mean, but many of the stuff VG said in this video is misinformation. Like "bosses have RNG combos", "you can't hit Maliketh in second phase with a slow weapon unless you have the claw", "Malenia's waterfowl is pure RNG unpredictable", "this attack isn't telegraphed so it's artificial difficulty". These aren't opinions as you can see. To explain all of this I would need to make a 3 paragraph long comment so just watch the Lupineos' video and form your opinion from there
@@lorenzo8208bosses aren’t unfair but there not fun every single sekiro boss is more fun then any elden ring boss
@Dio-xo9rv In what way? Because the Bosses in Elden ring always felt lesser in basically everything but presentation.
@Dio-xo9rv But panic rolling doesn't let you finish the game. I beat Elden Ring. Panic Rolling is something I stopped doing in Dark Souls 3. But the reason panic rolling is such a big newcomer pitfall in Elden Ring is because the attack telegraphing is certainly absurdly bad. Bosses are flipping in the air and have ridiculous wind up for grabs and swings. It's unrealistic, not in a "wow my immersion is broken" kind of way. This is a fantasy game. I'm not expecting that. But what I am expecting is for animations to make actual sense. And Hoarah Loux' grab and other attacks are just... silly bro. You can't say that the bosses have fair and balanced movesets when the player is given such a small amount of counterplay to it.
More attacks doesn't = good attacks. The methods of fighting are literally the most stale in the series. In certain fights like Mohg and there is one strategy you have to use to win. And in other fights like Malenia and Elden Beast you have to use one of like... 5 strategies to outplay a certain move.
Another issue I think Elden Ring suffers from is poor arena sizes and layouts for certain bosses. Two that spring to mind immediately are the Red Wolf and the Ulcerated Tree Spirit.
The Red Wolf likes to jump sideways a lot and I found that the narrow room you fight it in caused the boss to get stuck on a lot of the objects. It could also very easily back you into a corner and relentlessly run you down with no way out. Fighting them again as mini bosses in the overworld felt a lot more satisfying (although the wolf does still enjoy jumping into walls when it can)
The Ulcerated Tree Spirit almost appears to have been designed in a complete vacuum without any regard for the area(s) it would end up being placed in; the way it slides and rolls itself around makes 50% of it's body clip through walls and floors on almost every animation it has. It is incredibly difficult to keep track of some larger enemies in Elden Ring already, adding on the fact that most of the model isn't on screen because it's outside the playable area reeks of poor design choices.
Yeah the ulcerated tree spirit is in fact a cut enemy from DS3 so to say it was designed in a vacuum is not far off the truth
The red wolf is a basic enemy, it offers no real trouble if you actually know how to dodge at all
I had the exact same complaints, especially the Ulcerated Tree Spirit. It kinda works out in the open near Mt Gelmir. its a huge area and you're on horse back, so its traversal attacks, arent quite so terrible, still not great. Then you fight it in a tomb... nah. If you're going to cheap out use a magma wyrm instead.
Also the Debate Hall at the Institute of Magic and Wonder, has a giant flame wolf in there.🤣, sure, that makes sense, yeah...
@@MeatyLoaf I thought the arena being the old debate hall at the academy looked really nice and had plenty of room too tbh. I always liked the loading screen too I never really had a problem w that arena .
I feel like the fire giants arena needs to be a lot more flat and a tiny bit wider
A good comparison for Radagon's teleport behavior is Lothric and Lorian, there's only about 3 different attacks Lorian will do out of a teleport and they all have very specific timings or tells to let you know which one is coming: if he appears quickly he'll do two horizontal swings, if it's slightly longer that means the downward stab is coming, and finally if there's a long delay, that means he's charging up his downward chop that leads into a linear AOE zone. It was very natural to learn these timings because even though Lorian was leaving your view, you could still predict which attack was coming next, instead of just letting pure RNG decide what attack is coming.
Fantastic point actually
I used to HAAAATE the princes but now I miss them because I have to deal with Elden Ring fights
@goggles789 considering he can teleport at any point, the movement and position you're in when he teleports is basically random.
You cant rely on just memory in Elden Ring, you need to have good mechanics and reactions.
@goggles789 no lol. No it does not. In fact radagon can teleport nearly instant right on top of you, stagger you with said teleport. Then hit you before you can recover. Its absolute bullshit.
I did my playthough blind, and hadn't found the tear when I fought Mohg. The way I managed it was to get him close to his push, pop a stamina buff, then switch to the claws with a bleed buff and the bleed boosting gear, push him while he was in the middle of an attack animation, then burn through his HP before he could do the phase transition.
Yeah just being relentless towards him with bleed can work out well. Funny right? The blood god guy, defeated by bleed damage lol.
Same, I had gone through pretty much every main boss at that point so I had more than enough health flasks and it wasn't the main issue for me. It was still bullshit and I tried to dodge it like 20 times before googling if it's possible lol.
I was using the double katana build and was struggling, I had good damage but couldn't stagger him so I switched to Morgott's sword and absolutely rolled him because it does bleed but could still stagger him easily with a few charged R2's.
or just chug 3 estus. Lmao
Bleed him out, before he can bleed you out. Nice approach.
Imagine an area close to Niall's bossroom that has a witch set and a lot of bewitching branches that grow around it. and the set talks about how niall ended up killing her because he was afraid she could turn the people working under him against him.
But that's completely unnecessary, because the boss is designed well without them. Bewitching Branches are a bonus if you think of them, but they are far from necessary. If you do this fight right it will be three 1v1s.
@@anonymousperson8903 I did it 3 vs 1 ^^ took me 90 tries, needed the challenge haha
@@anonymousperson8903 agreed, I feel most complaints of elden ring bosses are souls veterans who can't get used to the changes that were made in elden ring, I played all the soulsborne games before this one and had no issue going through this game and beating every boss with no summons while using a greatsword. I'm on my 6th playthrough now and my opinion stays the same, most of the complaints for elden ring are from veterans who can't and refuse to adapt to the games changes or new players who find the game too difficult even though the game throws enough tools at you to make it easy.
@@eldenbladesofficialshop the “changes” they made are really bad.
The whole stagger system feels like it was taped on to a game that otherwise is just dark souls 4
@@eldenbladesofficialshop elden ring is just DS4 but with bad mechanics
I think Radahn remains memorable because YOU ONLY FIGHT HIM ONCE PER PLAYTHROUGH. Seriously, Elden Ring has a serious issue that plagues all open world games where content is re-used so much that any novelty something might have is sucked out after the 37th time you do it...with another 84 times to go.
Fun fact, there are only 8 bosses in the entire game that aren't reused AT LEAST once
@@loganberkheimer1857 vh
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Godrick's delayed attacks encapsulate how a lot of the problematic attacks in the game feel: unnatural-looking, and borderline impossible to react to on instinct (too fast downswing/startup). The reason I like Godrick as a boss though is that even with some annoyances, he doesn't one-shot the player in one combo, as his damage scaling is well balanced based on the likely amount of vigor a player will have, whereas some late-game bosses/enemies seem to not be aware that 40 is the soft cap. Also, Godrick's cutscene is 👌 the guy's such a character.
Funny thing is, Godrick was a lot easier than Margit for me, because his tells actually feel a lot more reasonable and a lot of his big attacks have dead zones, or can be avoided by jumping. Margit on the other hand, with his endless hooooooold attacks, and "oh, let me clip one more attack onto my big combo" nonsense...
The only thing I didn't like was that Godrick was just so easy compared to Margit, Margit took me 2 solid hours of attempts, Godrick in the same session took 2 tries.
Coming back to this, I guess the upside to Godrick is that he's pretty easy to beat even though he has weird wind ups. And they get easier to dodge once you've tried a couple times.
I'm just not a big fan of the overuse of delayed attacks, or the too-fast-to-react-to attacks which Margit is especially known for prolly.
In hindsight, Godrick is probably the most fun boss I had in the game. During my replay, I struggled to find any single boss (outside of Loretta) that I didn't have any major gripes with. Godrick still isn't devoid of those issues, his tornado spin at close range is hard to excuse and some of his attacks still have unnatural delay, but he's probably the least offensive about it.
His damage is reasonable enough as to not discourage counterattacking and there's usually a lot of downtime after his attacks that allow for a lot of back and forth pressure that's common in DS3 and Bloodborne. Outside of that, he's a very entertaining character to watch thanks to his hammy delivery and creation of several memes.
I also gotta give credit for Godrick having the most elaborate and indepth buildup out of any boss in a major dungeon. The castle and its soldiers really give off the vibe that Godrick scrambles with whatever he could find for soldiers, with little to no organising. Be it birds, trolls, dogs or lions. A lot of NPCs also have a connection with Godrick or talk about him prior: Rogier, Nephelli and Roderika. It makes me wish other dungeons were as involved as his when it comes to the dungeons' identity and how NPCs interact with the boss (Mohg's palace is kinda like that but it's very short).
40 is not the soft cap in this game lol
Main problem with this video? You assume the playstyle you choose is the most suitable for the boss fight.
That doesn’t just include weapon builds, but also the way you waste so many clear openings. Had to comment this after I saw the disaster Maliketh fight was
Another thing to mention about Foritssax, and by extension all other ancient dragons, is that they're trying to be Midir-style fights, where the game is intending you to hit their heads instead of their body, since it inflicts more damage. For Fortissax it's more obvious, since the front of him (where he attacks most of the time) isn't affected by the lightning timer. However, unlike Midir who keeps his head low enough for you to hit the entire fight, Ancient Dragons keep their heads out of reach most of the time, only lowering it after certain attacks before near-instantly raising them back up again out of reach. So it's a combination of a hard-to-hit head and a lightning timer for the body that makes Fortissax so weird. It feels like the game wants you to go for either body or head, but at the same time punishes you for going for either.
the lock on camera is so bad I end up free aiming for the feet
@@InvaderTroy the way miyazaki intended
You use jump attacks on their head to break their poise
Go for a few hits and a riposte
Compared to Midir, Fortissax felt amazing lol
It reminds me of Fatalis from Iceborne in a way. Except you don't need to break Fori's head cause its next phase is full of one shots without a head break. For gunner weapons at least but yeah the way it keeps it head during at least half the fight makes it hard to do good hits and for gunners you just don't do much damage to it so the fight which is already on a short timer doesn't allow for much time to focus on the head. But at least Fatalis doesn't punish as cruelly for hitting the chest
I'm so glad someone brought up Margit's 3 hit combo, I thought I was going mad with that one. After 3 playthroughs of the game, I never found a way to fully avoid that combo, and it became the thing that killed me the absolute most both on my very first playthrough, and all my subsequent ones, made so many fights feel like success or failure was entirely dependent on whether he would decide to do that one combo or not.
dodge through the 1st hit in the combo northwest or east and ull end up close to his butt. there you go.
dodge to his left, that works for me
Dodge to your left, his staff side, and try to get under his armpit. It's really that simple.
If this move only do the difference between victory or loss, just lvl vigor bro
Dodge towards enemies instead of away from them man.
A huge issue I had with ER when it first came out and still do (there's always a "try it, hate it, leave it, come back and try again with a calmer and open mind because I still want to like it" phase) is just how purposefully it's built against the player.
DS1 and maybe DS3 are like a fair dungeon master in DnD. They have a story to follow and other than a few cute tricks the combat is fair for both sides.
ER is that one asshole DM who studied every character in the party and their abilities, then specifically tailored their own self-insert bad guys to counter that. The real "nuhuh, that's not what happens!" kid in the playground in elementary school.
@Dio-xo9rv I alwayw wonder if people going "git gud" actually feel they're being smart or something... if anything, it's kind of transparently pathetic. Like, got no arguments, just say "git gud" and tell yourself people are impressed. Or something...
@Dio-xo9rv It doesn't get more impressive or intimidating by repeating it, you know. Not even if you add "scrubs" at the end.
@Dio-xo9rv You realize you're basically entertainment right now, right?
@Dio-xo9rv A comeback doesn't mean you're meant to make the exact same phrase come back. You used "scrub" already. I suggest "noob" or so next time.
@Dio-xo9rv Ain'cha getting bored? I mean, I'm not. So if you're not, that's okay. Good at what, anyway? Occurred to me I never bothered to ask.
I am halfway through the video and even though I agree with some points like the delayed attacks, I genuinely feel embarrassed looking at some of the B-rolls of the author fighting these bosses and think that this is just a major case of skill issue. 80% of the complaints make no sense when they are coming from somebody me who beat the game 4+ times. The only boss I had real issues with was Malenia (duh) and Mogh but only because I tried fighting him at RL 60 or so right after getting the invitation. Still, by the end of the first hour of the video hearing the same complaints just gets tired. “Boss is too slow, boss attacks too fast, boss doesn’t attack enough, boss is too aggressive, boss is too passive, boss doesn’t reward aggressiveness, boss doesn’t let you stand around and do nothing” etc. You complain about one thing during one boss and then say you wish the other boss did that one thing and vice versa. Almost all of the points raised in this video are genuine skill issue. Fire Giant’s balls is one example: they are not random, they don’t follow you for “some time”, they trigger when you’re nearby and explode afterwards with a delay dealing damage. You need to pay zero attention during the fight to not understand that. That’s it. The fact you couldn’t figure that out after beating the game 4 times is on you. Same goes for Rykard - you can stunlock his entire phase 1 with charged R2s, and then the boss can barely hit you. I don’t think I’ve ever even seen that ground attack you claim is impossible to dodge because I learned the mechanics of the boss. His second phase was harder, yeah, but not unfair. Also, the game has spirit summons, and you literally said you aren’t going to use them because they take away the aggro of the bosses or distract the gamk bosses, and then you complain about the bosses not giving you enough time to react. Spirit summons were added to the game for a reason, Bleed was overbuffed for a reason cashes of war were added for a reason. Just because you’re an int build doesn’t mean you don’t get access to items, spells and skills that make you tanky, just because you’re a full strength build doesn’t mean you can’t use elemental attacks like frost or bleed. Lastly, this game is specifically designed to punish people for dodging AWAY from the bosses, like it was in the previous games. You can dodge the entire combo of Margit if you dodge into him, not away from him. Maybe you needed another play through or something before making this video
This sums up everything I thought about the video. I would not consider myself good at the game at all and I'm still able to get to the end and beat it. Some points are alright but in order to be good at the game you need to learn the delayed attacks. That's how the game works and that's what you have to overcome. I'm not saying the games perfect either, Elden Beast sucks and whatever but learning the game is part of the challenge.
i dont think it invalidates the critique even if he is not the best player to play the game. Some of the elden ring bosses are hard and unfair be it malenia randomly gaining super armor or morgott randomly extending combos or start a new one before the the old ones animation ends.
Just even looking at the final bosses being two back to back no breaks imo tells they just wanted to make the bosses hard whatever the cause is.
@@wolfves2280
Malenia doesn't get hyper armor randomly... It's very consistent.
Morgott does not extend combos randomly either nor does he start a new one before the previous animation is finished (WTF does this even mean, honestly?)
This video is trash and a large amount of the complaints are just nonsense.
Ty man i was so infuriated with this video and seeing the comments that just wanted a place to vent about their difficulties didn't help either but this is exactly it. Even if some complaints were valid like the amount of running for some bosses the duo bosses and some stupid attacks keep in mind that he's comparing it with the other souls games which have the same problems and in some places even worse. Bloodborne is literally full of bullshit attacks that kill you in one hit so i don't know what he was complaining about there
Also about strength. Doesn’t fire, a top 2 element in the game, literally scale insanely well with strength? Lol
I feel the introduction of spirit ashes created a balance problem: it was meant as the easy mode many people seemed to have asked for, but using it now makes the bosses too easy, whereas not using spirit ashes makes some bosses impossibly difficult.
Which ashes are the most powerful? I'm new to the game, at the capital, and in my experience ashes have amounted to nothing more than momentary distractions.
@@scipioafricanus2212 besides the obvious op mimic tear, Nepheli Loux, Dungeater, Banished Knight Oleg, and Black Knife Tiche are all very good summons
@@galendamron7036 fair enough, I don't have any of those yet 🤣
@@scipioafricanus2212 Banished Knight Oleg you can get in a Limgrave dungeon so that one is accessible very early on. Mimic tear is located in Nokron not far from the actual boss fight. Nepheli, Tiche and Dungeater are trickier to get since they are locked behind NPC quests. Tiche is by far the most busted of that bunch with her ability to deal max health percent damage with some of her attacks.
@@markopusic8258 noted, thank you.
Morgott is my favorite boss in Elden Ring tbh. I wish they added Sekiro's feature of replaying bosses, because this fight is just so much fun to me.
perhaps in the dlc. but i wouldn’t count on it tbh
Morgott fun? With his trillion hit combos?
Luckily there's only 8 bosses in the game that aren't reused. Any boss you wanna fight again is probably somewhere on the map still 10 times over even
@@raijinthemaster88 uh no what? Why would anyone do that when the topic is elden ring bosses everyone's opinion is based off THEIR experiences personally I hate and love Morgott whenever I see him in a new playthrough i just skip him but on my first playthrough I spent like 5 hours learning his patterns and it really felt fun and thrilling dodging everything a real butt clencher for every move and the feeling of reward when I finally beat him gave me an energy boost for days and gave me the best mood that being said by the time I beat the game I lost the muscle memory and fighting him felt like pure agony once again it just isn't fun having to deal with the strings that sometimes feel infinite his delayed attacks are also reactive which is what people don't get and when he reacts its instant so if you see him trying to do a delayed attack and hit him he will instantly strike down hitting you which is why you have to dodge it which once again will extend his strings.
The Seamless co-op mod update is going to have Boss Rush mode.
With a couple bosses, mainly Margitt and Maliketh, I think the best and most fun way to fight them is by attacking them while they're attacking. Maliketh has a really good example of this, the overhead slam at the end of his main basic combo. During that attack, if you run up and to the side of him a bit, you can get in a fully charged heavy (with a halberd at least) while he's still attacking. After playing the game a couple of times, I think this counter, single tempo kind of playstyle is the most fun way to play.
That doesn't help with all of the bosses (especially Malenia, with random poise and waterfowl), but it makes the ones that it does work on way more fun.
Also, I found Beast Clergyman way easier if you stick to his hip and circling to your right
I beat Malenia solo with the Royal Greatsword doing this. Attacking during their combos nullifies most of the bosses' "issues". Mohg's attacks are timed to the frame so that you can dodge an attack, dodge attack, then dodge the next move.
@@sirgoo9962 While an honestly neat method for Malenia (every friend I have with the game beat her this way), the problem is it's build-locked.
It's like how there was only one correct way to fight Kalameet, or Midir, and especially in the latter case if you didn't have the right build it became 'better get a perfect run or else'. Couple this with the way ever taking a hit from Malenia means attrition is impossible for any other build, and the problem is even worse.
@@Pyre trust me buddy, this was my first souls game and I have beaten her with every weapon class while getting hit a ton. I’m not good, different just require different strategies, especially colossals. Just practice a bit more and I’m sure you’ll get it! 😊
Exactly this guy complains about unfair combos when he doesn’t even try to get gud
@@sirgoo9962 I found watching this video that most the issues comes with a hesitance to actually attack. I started the game with a Great Shield build so I had this easier than most, but I quickly began to notice that on nearly every boss I could find holes IN their combo to deal damage. I've even managed to get chargee heavies off in the middle of combos while still avoiding damage
Elden Ring really encourages a more Risker but far more rewarding play. Attack. Use heavies, charged, Junos, and counters. They are all so good! Not only do they do a lot of damage compared to the safer lights, but they also do well with poise which absolutely begins to melt if you okay aggressive. Everything in Elden Ring encourages an aggressive playstyle, but they don't allow that easy.
Ooooh boy the dlc bosses are this but tuned up to 20.
Bro fr, don’t even get me started on the DLC’s final boss
All the dlc bosses are great not sure what youre on about
@@linus9457"great" lmao. The hippo fight is the worst boss I have ever fought. Saying ALL bosses are great is an overstatement
Best dlc ever made
@@nicholasy335 take a shower lil bro I can smell you from here. Coping without getting attention is tiring huh?
1:02:50
The ENORMOUS input buffer totally flies under the radar for a lot of From's fanbois, and is a great criticism. It's why I don't enjoy the pvp as much as I used to. Now that I've played games with more well-designed controls, it becomes glaringly obvious here.
This design flaw/choice, if fixed, would make SO many of the delayed attack spam bosses more bearable, and eliminate a large portion of the "clunk" inherent to the Souls series. They did SO well with BB and Sekiro, so we know they're capable
maybe I got accustomed to it, maybe it's different controler vs computer (I play on Computer), maybe I'm somehow canceling the inputs, but in Elden Ring it rarely felt bad to me whereas if I go back to DS3 my god it feels awful. I remember finding that decision absurd from the first boss all the way to Nameless King.
With obvious exceptions of bigger attacks aside, missing a dodge input shouldn't get you hit on two completely separate attacks. On Elden Ring the main issue I have with input buffering is on charge attacks, where very often I've let go of the charge attack input as soon as the animation for the fully charged attack starts, only to have my character decide to do a second normal attack after the charged attack animation ends moments later.
Absolutely agree. BB is my favorite and I need to play Sekiro! I like a lot of the elements to the weighty combat design that's inherit to the Souls series. However, I would really like to see From create a new IP completely different from anything they've made previously. Maybe something in the opposite spectrum, where the combat feels more akin to games like, Ninja Gideon or Dragon's Dogma. Mix melee and ranged combat together in a more fluid way than what's present in thesouls games. While I prefer Souls to Dragons Dogma overall, I enjoy the combat mechanics of DD so much more. Idk I have many ideas of how they could greatly improve upon their current formula that has been working well for them, but I'd really like to see them do something entirely new and unexpected. Also, they need to use a new engine.
They have had the same exact problems in all the games since DeS. The cult fan base praises them with every single game and says they can do no wrong so they never fix anything or improve on anything because the cult will eat it up and tell you to "git gud". There's no worse fan base in the world.
Honestly they should have made this game play more like Bloodborne than Dark Souls.
It would just straight up be better with how they designed it.
@@A_Black_Sheep94 the input buffer isn’t nearly as bad in the other games. They intentionally made it bad in ER as a means to cheapen the difficulty a bit further
I love the video, it's nice watching someone who actually fights the boss and doesn't just show the same clip of them beating the boss over and over again. Seeing someone fight and lose honestly kept me hooked into the video waiting for you to succeed and cheering for you as well.
Based
I always thought they should be separate bosses. Like you defeat radagon then walk down the crazy tree beast room and fight the beast. The beast after radagon feels so wrong to me imo feels so disjointed and not fluent at all
@@datiger39 i believe that Killing Godfrey and then having a final showdown with Radagon and the Elden Beast was a giant waste. It would have been cool to have a short exploration of the inside of the Erdtree instead of this slog. If you add Maliketh (and his draconic guard) it really becomes a bosss rush. And not a good one.
@@SIGNOR-G it would've been cool to have a small dungeon *inside* the tree between Radagon and Elden Beast.
Or even like... a hallway lmao
I mean sure it's good to have visual confirmation that he doesn't understand the bosses he complains about.
Finally playing through the entirety of Sekiro REALLY makes me wish I could use the wolf's moveset in Elden Ring, it would obviously break some bosses but some bosses would be insanely fun to fight that way. Elden Ring has always made me feel that way too, it's very much a game full of Sekiro and Bloodborne bosses where you get to be a Souls boss, they're super fast, flashy and badass, and you get to sometimes attack in sometimes really neat ways, there just that kind of desync to it all.
After beating godrick I'm super close to quiting as I just find the game unjustly frustrating (souls vet here). But there's time where iv thought that if I was playing as my bloodborne character then it'd be an extremely fun game 😂
@@ghostparty2062yeah this is pretty true for me. The bosses are mostly frustrating with a few bits of fun. The defiled chalices were much less frustrating and everything felt fair.
@supergold9390 yeh man. Two weeks later and Iv officially quit 😂 I decided the game just wasn't worth the headache. Might give sekiro a try as its the only one I haven't played it 🤔
@@ghostparty2062 i beat everything just to say I did it. But its not one that i feel like im gonna replay a lot. BB on the other hand.
@@ghostparty2062sekiro is the most satisfying to finally learn to play out of all souls-like , just stick with it and learn the move set you will get a chance to actually be the boss 😎
My problem is how there are so many duplicate bosses in this game really dampens the whole experience
It would have been so easy to replace the Valliant Gargoyles with a single Black Blade Kindred. You can even justify it by saying that the Gargoyle is looking for the root of death blight under the direct order of Gurrang.
Ugh, I was probably a bit overleveled for the gargolye duo and it took 2 summons to beat them. That poison was just brutal.
Fromsoft fans trying to have an actual discussion instead of saying "git good" challange! (IMPOSSIBLE)
yeah like for real the "git gud" kiddos in this comment section are cringe ASF
@@Blonder_Studioand scrubs complaining about bosses that literally jus take some focus pattern recognition and dodge timing are even more cringe 🥱
As the first two replies properly demonstrate OP's point, the community is more worried about labeling one another "cringe" than having a civilized discussion.
Half of the "git gud" kids haven't beat the game and likely are the ones who sit on the game all day invading people.
@@soundsbyzer0"scrubs" 🤓
I feel like Elden Beast should come before Radagon. Imagine walking into an empty room to see it transform into the EB boss room, and you face it and defeat it only only to afterwards have Radagon appear from withinside it, who we then face and defeat. The ENTIRE GAME builds up to Radagon, and yet the final foe is something we hear mentioned ZERO TIMES. It's like if in Dark Souls after facing Gwyn, we are then facing a giant fire crab afterwards... uh.
I saw EB coming because of elden stars description.
Nah if you read between the lines you can actually see it coming, radagon to me always appeared to be a pawn in disguise of this great being.
I know what you mean though since while playing bloodborne for the first time (my first souls game) I didn’t see the moon presence coming at all.
Giant Fire crap better than this starry giant crap!
The entire story didn’t make sense to me anyways
@@slembougacha1147 am amazed you even got the moon presence ending first. Most people don't
Here is the thing about delayed attacks. If they are animated correctly then they would be easier. For example mohg's attacks are very good animated so even if it is delayed you can dodge them easily if you see it. Same goes for godfrey l. Though some of his attacks (especially in the 2nd phase) are really frustrating and rely just on timing
Yura does have connections with Mohg, he's the hunter of bloody fingers and they are Mohgs goons
this guys slower than an anvil rolling down the curvature of the earth so..
I'm not sure you would be able to make that connection unless you did Varre's quest first?
@@sojinnn another guy who is actually rarted out here in 4D imax
@@sojinnn Well yeah, unless you do the story stuff connected to a certain boss, you won't know the story details of said boss. It's very arguable that the story beats are too out of the way and easy to miss, but it's another thing to say they aren't there at all.
You really nailed it on the head when you said you are often watching the boss more than fighting it. I felt that when fighting Placidusax and watching him teleport 100 times and then shoot his mega laser. At least it looked cool, while with Elden Beast it was just obnoxious how often it ran away. I would have preferred a second phase for Radagon, even though I struggled him with a lot. Fighting the Elden Beast felt more like a chore than anything once you realised how to dodge its (admittedly well-telegraphed) attacks because of how skittish it was. I guess it was meant to be more of a spectable than fight, but Radagon can beat you down so much that you just want the EB dead rather than enjoying it.
@@BBQcheese The obvious solution, but it still felt like an annoyance when I could dodge every attack but the EB would just run away everytime I got in melee range. Maybe I was just unlucky with its AI because I went behind it a lot, but I wish it would have had more attacks where it spinned or slammed into you like the dragons so you could punish it more.
@@BBQcheese I killed it after a few tries, so I did "get better", but I can still find it an obnoxious boss.
But what do you mean by standing where it surfaces? Does it move around in a specific pattern? It tended to swim to the other side of the arena when I faced it.
@@BBQcheese Thanks for the info, I thought it was just swimming a set distance away.
@@BBQcheese Unironically defending Elden Beast. Congrats, you just hit rock bottom.
So true it’s just boring
“What’s stopping [Malenia] from running up to the wall and smacking it a few times to heal, too.”
I’m crying 😂 just imaging her sprinting off and pounding the wall then coming back to waterfowl me.
You’ve beaten the game multiple times? Your gameplay looks like my 12 year old brother when we co-op’d for the first time. Like seriously, it doesn’t seem like you have the experience or the skill to be accurately critiquing the game to this extent.
Fromsoft games are all easy, it’s not impressive to be good at a video game 😂😂😂😂😂
He might be using stock footage. Plus you don't have to be the best at a game to see it's flaws. I'm not the best at Elden ring, I'm on my first playthrough and I'm in the mountain of the giants and even I can tell it's become an area full of overpowered enemies that three is no point fighting anyway because they drop so few runes. I've been one shot at 51 vigor by certain enemies.
Open world doesn't work for souls games. It's nice at the start of the game, but it becomes pointless later on. What's the point in enemies you have to just dodge past because it's not worth dying for 2000 runes. Endgame should have been 3 or 4 straight dungeon areas.
@@jebalitabb8228if you suck at a game and don't understand its mechanics, you shouldn't make a 2 hours long critique
The worst thing about Godrick is that even he isnt a unique boss, as Godefroy the Grafted can be found in an Evergaol in Altus, which is even worse when you consider that he doesn't even have the spectacle of Godrick's phase 2 and the dragon head
Its also a disappointment from a lore perspective as it removes the importance of godrick and the idea that he is a lunatic for grafting, as many before him in his lineage has done it
Godrick isnt a unique Boss?? im just tired of this game, gonna drop soon
@@ragnarloth8942this comment section is filled with people who have skill issues
@@TheeAcid That makes absolutly no sense here. No one is complaining that they can't beat the bosses. They are just criticizing design choices. I don't see how someone saying repeat major bosses spoils the major bosses themselves is a skill issue.
@@TheeAcid Nah, the design of the Bosses are just terrible, beating a Boss in this game is like a relief, different from others soulsborne games, the Bosses are actually fun
lorettas delayed strike is really nice, because its her only sooo delayed attack, feels like her ace in the sleeve rather then another wierd fighting style
The bow thingy? That's cool af.
I'm still surprised that I beat her despite not really fantastic stats back then and managed to go through Caria Manor. Spookiest real estate!
You nailed it when you said that From is desperately trying to one up themselves with every game when it comes to difficulty, but by doing that, they have basically made a game with bosses that defy the universal language of gaming. The delayed attacks, the gank fights, the endless combos that end with the boss jumping out of the way so you can’t hit them. Everything they do was designed to artificially inflate the difficulty so that From can pull a fast one on their fans.
What’s worse is that, I’m a From fan, but I’m not the “git gud” kind of From fan. If you try to criticize the difficulty in any way, those fans are always just gonna be like “no easy mode, bruh, go play something else.” The Git Gud mentality has basically shielded these games from any criticism.
And it’s bled into other games too. God of War Ragnarok’s berserker fights are full of this nonsense.
I never played a FromSoft game until Elden Ring, and I feel very disappointed by the boss fights.
Especially because the normal enemies are so intuitive and natural to fight against. Everything is properly telegraphed, and if you successfully dodge/block/parry, then you get an opportunity to strike back and it feels great! But then you get to the bosses, and.. it's none of those things.
All of the immersion goes away and it becomes a game of creating a flowchart in your brain of what causes the AI to do which animations at which times.
You're no longer a hero fighting a monster, you're just pressing buttons on a controller to move hitboxes around in a virtual 3D space by memorizing animations and AI patterns.
So now I'm wondering... Are all FromSoft games like this? Is it even worth trying any of their other games after this terrible first impression?
@@cleverman383 I think only elden ring and some ds3 bosses/areas are this bad. Other games are better designed.
@@cleverman383 my man as a souls veteran I can say a few things...
Dark souls 1 - erase the memory of elden ring and enter this game as a wide eyed child.. you'll be blown away... it's just not a game.. it's an art ..the dark souls 1 , first of his name , was truly a lightning captured in bottle . Tis a short game so read all the lores and item description, take in the vista , enjoy the interconnected world(no teleport bullsh*t)..and get blown away..this is the only game which has made of ponder in the soul-verse...sure the QOL are absent and animations are dated , but combat is extremely fair and very methodical yet hard . Maybe tis my my nostalgia speaking, but for me it's 10/10
Dark souls 2 - watered down elden ring , unfair and bullshitty bosses and level design , thing elden ring got it's inspiration from this game , if you wanna play, play with seeker of fire mod , but this game has a very unique world building and interesting story , makes you wonder , and mazula is the best central hub in souls verse
Dark souls 3 - Froms' attempt to be a more accessible game , way more linear , yet fun , the combat is fun , fair, hard and responsive, truely a castlevania gothic lovecraftian world...direct predecessor to elden ring
Bloodborne/sekiro - the true git good games , extremely fair extremely fun extremely hard/easy according to your skill level , combat is fluid , bosses are damn hot , but these are not RPG like souls games..these have a more streamlined experience, maybe that's why they are so polished
Finally elden ring - the black sheep of FROMSOFT... "critically acclaimed" and GOTY because more brain-dead and toxic people bought it and played it.. making our community COD cult 2.. defending it won't simply help...tis what it is.. unresponsive, unfair , artificially difficult , recurring bloated open world trope( just removing quest markers doesn't make it revolutionise open world , these fromsoft drones gezz!)
Hard to believe From delivers this hot pile of shit after dark souls 3 and sekiro
Conclusion - play all those prev games(maybe not dark souls 2😅) ..you will love those and understand why Souls is so big today... I'm sorry elden ring had to your 1st souls game , it's like picking boku no pico as your first anime instead of Death note
I haven't played GOWR yet but from what I saw of the berserkers, yeah I agree with ya. Like they probably went "jeez we have 12 berserkers we need to do and we need to make them hard, what do we do?" instead of say focusing on only a few of the berserkers and maybe excuse the rest by saying that they had passed on or that Thor encountered them or something. That way you don't need to do the 12 bosses just for the sake of the mythology while still going "Jeez it took Thor to finish these ones off" but I guess that would be a plot hole cause the hilt stuff. At least the Valkyria queen is better although I would say that she does a bit too much damage, at least she ain't the berserkers.
@@edsonrzk my brother in Christ ds1 and 2 only had a handful of actually good bosses
In dmc5, there is an enemy similar to magma wyrm who can also do a consecutive high damage charge attack; this enemy's attack is harder to avoid with aggressive tracking and really high damage; but guess what; the game mechanics make it actually interesting. You can try to stay on the move and avoid him while until he's done, but you can also try to maximize safe air time and shoot him from above to do damage throughout it; you can play the royal guard game and ofcourse, you can do the ultimate gigachad move of just parrying him to stun him altogether. All these options varry in risk, reward, and skill requirement. This is why watching you have to walk around and wait while wyrm does his charge attack four times in a row is so painful
The laser guided tracking on every attack is the most bs thing that the bosses do in my opinion. Like a 180 spin in a fraction of second is just ridiculous
I really started noticing this in DS2 and it just never went away. It's horrible game design, but at this point I can only assume it's completely intentional.
Godskin starting his roll, doing a stab attack and then going back into his roll is one of the few things that still make me mad
Was fighting Niall with a summon once. He did his jump attack while targeting the summon, then turned midair 180°, completely defying gravity, to attack me. I had no chance to dodge because he completely broke physics in that moment, and I was too astounded at learning he was a gravity master to get out of the way.
@goggles789 ah yes, physics breaking gameplay is a skill issue. I should have known Niall can fly ahead of time.
@goggles789 that rare bug perfectly demonstrates how ridiculous the tracking in this game is. It's a legitimate criticism of the game.
One thing which i always found awesome about the maliketh fight which makes it an absolute breeze is something that isnt mentioned here. Youre supposed to dodge into him for most of his attacks, putting you closer to him, which in turn makes you avoid a lot of his sweeping moves and his big circular AOE. Another thing about him which makes him super easy is that if you stay close to him, he literally wont do his big continuous combos, and will actually slow down
I find it funny at the start of the video he said his approach to the bosses didn't change as his skill level improves, then he shows his footage of Margit where he's fighting him completely wrong by staying in front of him at all times and getting hit by the fast dagger follow up. How can he say his approach to the bosses doesn't change when gitting gud if he never got gud.
But honestly it's the issue I've seen with basically every review of Elden Ring. People try to fight these bosses like in DS3, where you could just stand in front of the boss, roll their whole combo, then hit them when they idle (basically turn based combat). Elden Ring takes a lot from Sekiro in that the bosses won't stop attacking if you try to do that you have to interrupt them or hit them during their swings. It's interesting Matthew seems to have understood that for Sekiro but not here.
But dodging intzo him doesnt bring you closer lol, he jsut jumps away from you for most of the fight
@@WambwneD no he doesn’t
@@WambwneD no he doesn't and you can just jump/roll attack into him for damage.
i equip the parry thing to parry some attacks and the erdtree greatshield to deflect his projectiles
Godfrey definitely has a flow state you can get into, and it starts by rolling to the right. So many of his attacks come from the left due to how he's holding the axe. Rolling to the right gives you much better punish windows, especially on his huge overhead swings (it's long enough to get in fully charged heavy attacks). Rolling to the right also puts you in a great spot to watch his axe and check if he's going for the 3 hit combo instead of the 2 hit version (you'll see him pull the axe back just before he swings the third time). Once you get that down, you can punish the 2 hit version with ease. Further, his stomp attacks are really hard to dodge, but they're very easy to jump over. Throw in a light jumping attack to punish the stomps and you have a solid rhythm for the first phase.
Second phase... God help you.
Yeah, Godfrey was one of the few bosses that I was able to stick close to almost the entire time. Only the AOE attack would interrupt that flow.
Godfrey is fuckin awesome, my favourite boss. I love how relentless he gets in the second phase, and the sheer spectacle of his throws and aoes really blew my socks off.
I think the second Phase is terrible. Hoarah Loux feels like he only knows how to spam Grab Attacks or AOEs
@@chrissyre89 yeah I did not feel bad for using a mimic for the second phase
Godfrey has such a nice rhythm to that I feel is only matched by malenia and margit/morgott all his attacks are readable all are dodgeable and the aggression keeps you on you toes and staying in a bosses face in this game especially is so sweet
Hoarah loux is just aoes panic rolls and delayed grabs lol
"Nothing about yura suggests a connection to Mohg" HE LITERALLY HUNTS DOWN MOHG'S BLOODY FINGERS HIW THE FUCK THEY ARE NOT RELATED
The only thing that suggests relation is his quest line, it's entire possible (likely even) to play through the game without even encountering him or his quest
Calm down lol. You sound insane right now. You sound like you're trying to make a argument that souls games are always clear about what to do lololol.
@@soyborne.bornmadeandundone1342 they arent always clear but this is a massive hint
@@soyborne.bornmadeandundone1342 Sure, that's a fair argument, but saying they have no connection whatsoever is straight up wrong.
My problems with Margitgudscrub are threefold: First, the game keeps pointing you toward him. Every time you rest at a site of grace, there's a beam pointing into where he is and as a result, many new players (as well as Souls vets like myself) ended up immediately running face-first into his trap.
Second, even once you go in, learn that he's way out of your league, nothing tells you HOW out of your league he is and as a result, new players can end up leveling up to an insane degree hoping to beat him, only to wonder why, even 20, 30, 40 levels later, they're still having so much trouble battling him. There are two ways to get stronger in FS games: Level up your character of level up yourself. Unless a player enters the game knowing this, they'll likely think it's all just a numbers game like so many non-FS RPGs.
Finally, the game already did this...TWICE...the grafted scion and the tree sentinel at the beginning.
I'd say the Tree Sentinel does it better overall. Unlike Margit, you can actually run away, reinforcing that sometimes the best way out of a situation isn't fighting, but running. If you go due to Margit and drop a lot of runes, there's no way to reclaim them without beating him because Homeward Bones no longer exist.
@@Laterose15 I get what you're saying, but consider the fact that the entirety of Stormveil Castle is technically optional. You can technically just go around Margit as well, if you so desire.
@@Laterose15 You can always exit boss fights, in every fs game. Just quit to the title screen and you'll be outside the boss fog.
I had to look up a guide on how to beat him on my first character and only won because my jellyfish summon spit on him too hard so it was VERY anticlimactic
margit is perfectly fine at level 20, his more of a skill check then a level check.
I can’t believe you’ve managed to do multiple play throughs with feeling this way. My feelings are extremely similar after just finishing my first run, and I really don’t think I’ll be rushing to do a second run.
Same, i only briefly went back to my "second" playthrough to test out something i discussed with a friend about (related to an update) but dont feel like i actually want to jump back it, and the only way to i found to circumvent issues like the over aggressiveness was just to alway carry a ranged option, like a bow or quick spells, but that's only viable by late way if you want to properly mix it with melee builds
So disappointing. I was really excited to get stuck into it after playing Demon Souls, Bloodbourne and Sekiro, but found myself just wanting it to all be over by the time I reached end game. Learning the boss fights just didn’t seem fun the way previous games were, and I found myself just giving up and using summons. Totally agree about needing a ranged option all the time too, I had a maxed poleblade with ice spear ashes on it, which really helped for the bosses I just couldn’t even be bothered with.
I find it weird he enjoyed Sekiro yet a lot of his complaints here are things I also complained about Sekiro when I started (before gitting gud). There is no punishment for being agressive, bosses just won't take turns anymore by resetting to idle after every combo, you have to find your openings by getting behind, outspacing, or jumping. Margit is actually an S+++ tier tutorial boss because he will drill this into you if you try to fight him melee only. If you stand in front of him after a combo finisher he will ALWAYS follow up with the undodgeable fast dagger. If you roll or run behind him he won't and you'll have a massive opening to heal or hit him with a charged R2.
I do think having a ranged option helps and makes the game more fun though, since most bosses have some kind of ranged attack themselves. I like to carry throwing knives to keep their poise from resetting
@@highlightermarca-texto3281 I don’t think you realize that 1.) in Sekiro you have many more abilities and versatility than in Elden Ring. In sekiro, you’re actually the one with the advantage. That’s why it works in that game and not Elden Ring.
2.) try to fight margit with a colossal sword and see how well just going behind works for you 😘
3.) Imagine trying to fight Isshin but as a Dark Souls 3 melee build. That’s what Elden ring feels like. They upgraded the enemies but just didn’t do much to upgrade the player
@@iboildogsalive6535 nope, you just suck. There’s legitimately not much else I can say unless you provide me with footage of you fighting the bosses so I can see what you’re doing wrong, but if you legitimately think you don’t have the tools or the speed to handle Margit you’re blatantly incorrect.
Elden ring follows the old arcade style of difficulty; trial and error. The problem with the delayed attacks usually isnt that they are delayed, its that they have literally no tell to the attack coming out. Theres no realistic way to dodge some of these attacks on the first attempt outside of just running away and waiting for them to stop acting like a moron with their sword arm held up for 9 seconds at a time
Absolutely. So many bosses will hold there weapon over there head and track you for ages, and then bring it down faster than you can possibly react. I'd rather play using instinct and reflexes rather than a stop watch 😂
I wanna know who trained these demigods to fight. Holding up your weapon for a 5 second long overhead strike is the absolute best way to get yourself shanked in the gut.
@seanbean3070 whoever trained the demigods also trained them to slam swords the size of the chrysler building down so fast that the moment you twitch a muscle to stab them, you've been ground pounded through the arena and into the eternal cities.
a question, is this your first soulsborne? because that has been the case for EVERY FUCKING SOULSBORNE GAME FROMSOFT MADE.
@@seanbean3070 And you can do that: you can hit Margit while he's winding up. This can help you feel the timing (it's always two hits then parry with a Samurai, for example) or it can help you stagger Margit (his low poise is a huge incentive to get frequent hits in, even small ones)
The newest comments are crazy
like the only reason you are saying get good or stop complaining is because he right
ER community at its finest
How is he right? Elden rings boss design is the same as the others. When people just refuse to learn how to games combat works and then they cry about it of course we are going to say things like get good
@@burntivorykingyea because jumping really helps against waterfowl dance, thanks a lot
@@idlegameplayer3756 first off thats one attack on one boss. Do you think that just because one attack is poorly designed, that means that the game has poor boss design? Once you learn waterfowl dance, the rest of the fight is very fair and fun imo. Running and jumping is an easy way to dodge waterfowl dance, which he forgot to mention. He acts like you either need to change your build or learn the hard circle strategy. Meanwhile all it takes is running away and jumping when she comes towards you. Waterfowl is only one attack. He complains about delayed attacks throwing off the pace of the fight even though thats the whole point of them. They throw off the pace so it forces players to actually learn the bosses moveset rather than mindlessly spamming dodge and not getting any better at the game. The guy in the video clearly expected every boss to be doable first try and got frustrated that bosses actually require effort to learn their movesets
@@idlegameplayer3756there are so many ways to counter that attack. Even if you can’t, spam dodging likely will get you out of it if you’re not some 3 year old who can’t react.
@@idlegameplayer3756 I know you were trying to be sarcastic but running away and jumping at the right time is easily the most consistent and easiest way to dodge the first flurry of waterfowl dance, even at point blank range. So yes, jumping really helps for that move.
About the infamous Waterfowl Dance:
I will say that the egregious part of that attack is specifically the first rush. As demonstrated in your own footage, the second and third rushes are both reasonably programmed to miss if you hit the right spot with good timing. (These tips assume you have the camera locked: Second rush you aim just to the left of where she starts, roll as she leaps at you. Third rush you use similar timing, but straight ahead, then roll backwards just in case you aren’t out of range of the final hit)
HOWEVER, the frequency at which she uses Waterfowl is sometimes absurd. I have had her attempt the attack *five* times in the first phase alone, one of which I successfully interrupted (still don’t know how), and the fifth one ended me.
If it weren’t for that first rush being so ridiculous I think Malenia could easily be one of my favorite fights in the series, but the way the game as a whole is I don’t want to replay the entire thing for one boss at the end.
As a quick aside, git gud is a stupid response to valid criticism or requests for help in fighting a boss. Just tell the person how you dealt with the problem. It’s not hard.
Malenia is probably my favorite boss in the game, but yeah there are some problems with that attack.
She should've had a cap on how many times she's allowed to use the attack because the amount of times she does use it can vary so much to the point where the player may have to rely on good RNG for a solid attempt.
I also think she should've had an ample recovery window after the attack so that the player could whale on her, like a reward for dodging the move. Instead there's next to no opportunity present.
@@theophany4935 yess, she recovers almost instantly, now that's just absolute bullshit ..
this happen weirdly to me too cause I can get bad RNG on her WFD, wtf with WFD after WFD when I used Ohga as my spirit ashes when Ohga successfully make her fall and she gets up just to do the WFD again 😭
What the hell are you talking about? Not a single sane person cares if waterfowl allegedly programmed to miss or not, this attack is straight up copypasted from Sekiro. It's literally Isshin's technique. This is fundamental problem of this game - instead of doing their job, FS just released a pile of assets without tweaking it properly
@@cyron5091 I haven't played Sekiro but that dance felt to me like it didn't belong to a souls game. Now it makes sense
28:53
There’s also a huge problem with the regal version in particular: it will just die sometimes after teleporting.
The first two times I did this boss I never actually fought it. It instead just disappeared and insta killed itself
i think that's been fixed.
I missed Malenia in my first playthrough. Considering I was playing a glass cannon mage, now that I know what she does, I am glad I did miss her LMAO.
She gives a 48dex sword or an incantation, you didn't miss much for a mage build
Maliketh is my absolute favorite fight and i didn't even know about the claw haha