When you drop it on the table, the one that gives the thud sound is coated tungsten. That explains why the weight is very close to real. Gold should ring when gently dropped on the table. When you rotate and see how the light reflect, the one which is stamped (real) shows a circular reflection. Because the surface is compressed when stamped. Electroplated one shows a dull reflection. (fake) XRF (X-Ray) which uses a 50kV x-ray tube can only penetrate surface 10-15 microns. To fool this gun, you needed a plating more than 15 microns. Not difficult to do.
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@Franklin Alonzo I really appreciate your reply. I got to the site through google and I'm waiting for the hacking stuff now. Seems to take a while so I will reply here later with my results.
I'm surprised weight didn't come in. It's clearly something gold-coated per the spectrometry. There aren't a lot of materials that can fake gold in terms of density etc. What I found really interesting is how obvious the difference in resonance/sound was. Gold and silver both have a distinctive sound to them. That makes me more confident in that it seems the easiest test works the best.
It doesn't, it reads depth I can assure you. Other brands/models use connectable variation of wands for various size/thicknes bars and coins. He needs to recalibrate or he is not using correctly. My one can detect which metal, and % purity, and if a coin is plated it fails.
If anyone has ever watched the movie The pianist with Adrien Brody, you remember the part in the restaurant where the man asks Adrian to stop playing the piano so he could drop gold coins on a table to get that distinctive sound, a few of them had the thud, a few of them had the ring to them. Caveat emptor, buyer beware.
Matthew Kuraja The Fisch would most likely be fooled by these fakes. However, I'm not 100% certain of this because I did not use a Fisch to test these. The weight of the fake was exactly the same as a US Mint 1 oz Gold Eagle, and though I did not use calipers to precisely measure the width, the fake and the genuine did have matching diameters when stacked together. Check the molecular density of Tungsten and Gold... you will see that they are nearly identical. Therefore, gold and tungsten would be nearly identical in volume and mass. i.e. there are ways to fool instruments designed to test for these properties (which is what the Fisch offers). Train your eye and ear to the sight and sound of the precious metals.
I have to agree about sound. Even an untrained person can quickly recognize the difference given a few minutes with the real thing vs a chinese fake. I find the silver clink to be more obvious, but the gold ring is also very distinctive.
Another question. I was always told one of the merits of gold as money instead of diamonds is that it's uniform in appearance. Meaning, its luster is the same from coin to coin. But the coins I have vary noticeably. Some look quite dull and some have a bit of a shine. Much like the image above. I bought them from a big (assumingly reputable then) dealer who told me the coins slightly vary in appearance because they were minted in different years. Also, I bought a scale and weighed them. The scale goes to the thousands place and the coins vary at the thousands place. Note, the scale reads the coins' weights consistently but some are consistently different than others. When I google for the weight of a gold eagle, I'm given a very specific weight that goes much further out in fractions. I still don't know anyone else that owns coins so I can't see if these observations I just listed are normal or not.
Market Harmony probably not a fake, might be a private mint round of some sort, not an original gold eagle, just made to look like one, might be real gold
The Chinese used to do DVD's now gold coins ,they always fake something.Customs caught a shipment of coins coming to my area ,I just wish they could get them all ,I'm scared to buy any coin now ,even silver.
Thanks for this. I just did a major purchase from a retailer I can trust but wanted to double-check anyway. Now that I know what to look for it seems pretty obvious which is the fake. Fortunately, my coins passed the test. The biggest giveaway for me was the thickness of the raised rim in the fake. I'm guessing that's how they add the extra material to make the weight correct.
Interesting, never considered the alloys in US Mint gold coins as being an anti-counterfeiting feature. I was always told it was to harden the metal a bit.
For both reasons, actually. Pure gold is very soft; mixing in copper into the alloy hardens it, and silver helps it have a brighter luster to make up for the copper dulling it a bit. But it also makes it harder to fake. The fake one in this video is probably tungsten plated with almost pure gold. The fake's surface is thus a lot more yellow than the genuine coin because of that.
GetMeThere1... I've seen the Canadian Mint ads for the new tiny laser Maple on each coin now, that is unique to THAT coin. But where are you going to go to get that checked and how much will it cost for the service??? It'll slow the counterfeiters down for a few moments. 🤢
Things I noticed as a complete neophyte were: 1) The tone and color and finish of the fake, 2) The skeletal face on the fake...and 3) The angle of the eagles' heads on the rear. Of course this is with the benefit of a side-by-side comparison.
US Govt would like to scare people out of gold. They couldn't care less about this. Besides, all fed resources needed to continue "Russia, Russia, Russia" investigation.
What happened with the XRF? I was going to get one but after seeing this, I’m questioning whether or not I should. Was it plated with a high fineness Au?
Mike Smith if you watch the video he puts the xrf on the real gold coin and then said he’s not sure why it came up 99.8 real gold duh cause you didn’t put it on the fake one
@@johnnybowman4653 The real one wouldn't come up 99.8% real gold; it's an alloy of gold, copper, and silver. The fake one came up almost pure gold because it only read the outermost layer, which is likely nearly pure gold plating on another metal (quite likely tungsten).
Compelling tungsten counterfeits have been on the rise in recent years. For some time now, we have been working a simple method of detecting these fakes as an addition to the checks done by the Fisch. Called The Ringer, the new tool rings the coin. A 916 fine gold coin has a long distinct ring when struck; 999 fine gold a less distinct ring but a tungsten fake only produces a dull thud.
If you want to verify what machine reads fake gold accurately, test the machine on both a known fake and known real sample, both using the machine and acid test. I have found that the Sigma PMV failed miserably in detecting fake gold and more likely than not reads real when the subject coin/bar is in fact fake.
It does not test "through" anything of significant density, such as metals. It can, however, test through the plastic card which holds a gold bar or coin and then test the surface of the item. The key point is that it will test the surface only, and not the entire depth of the dense item.
Will we get any follow up on the nature of the fake? Are they tungsten with plating? I hear a Chinese company is offering some of these with varying thickness of plating.
Fake gold coins made from gold plated tungsten are being sold unabashedly from China by the Shenzhen Shun Xin Da Handicraft Co., Ltd. You can read about their specifications @ www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Gold-Plated-Coins-Tungsten-Coins_1061192485.html?s=p . They also sell all sorts of other fake gold coins and bars @ sxd-badge.en.alibaba.com/productgrouplist-210760562/coin_gold_silver_bars.html .
Jade Nephrite Right. These criminals also make fake plated silver maple leafs. People need to be aware of these as many are being sold on ebay as real coins. They are nothing but counterfeiters, since they make replica coins and don't have identifying marks indicating that they are only plated.
Because of the ugly face I was doubtful of the one on the left, but the real coin looked to have less definition (until you moved them) also the real coin the buildings windows are undefined and the twig thing looks muddled up into the stars pattern. Also the clarity of the date on the fake looked better first glance. Gives a whole new meaning to "Too good to be true".
In the first six or so years of production, gold Eagles had the dates in Roman numbers. I would think these years would be the least likely to be counterfeited as it would require even more detail. Just a thought from a nonexpert.
Not true on melting. You can do a specific gravity test (won't help with tungsten) and a sigma test (electrical conductivity and resistance). Also a ping test would help as it sounds different.
Didn't realize eagles are 22 karat. Bought my first maple leaf and thought the eagle was counterfeit. The sizes were different and the sound was different. Scared the hell out of myself.
Another giveaway is that the date is way too easy to read for a Gold Eagle. I often have a lot of trouble making out the year on gold eagles and the 2003 date is way too clear and prominent.
@Market Harmony - Can these fakes be legally owned if the word "specimen," for example, is conspicuously embossed on the reverse? I ask because they would make for nice, decorative “poker chips.”
In a world of deceit, why should we trust anything these days? I was looking to buy a few of these coins and I want to thank you for this video. The one thing I've learned from buying and selling silver for over 25 years is the shimmer, white Christmas lights is one of the best ways to find out if you have a real silver coin or a fake one. If you place a silver coin under a white Christmas light, you roll the coin around and you get that cartwheel effect. The cartwheel effect applies to silver bullion as well. Great video, thank you for this because I'm about to buy my first Eagle at a very high cost of $1932
This is why I think the electrical conductivity/resistivity machines are better. Those handheld x-ray fluorescence spectroscopy guns are $15,000 and only penetrate to less than 0.05 mm (i.e. they only really measure the surface). The electrical conductivity/resistivity machines sell for as low as $650 and can measure up to 4-12 mm deep and can measure through slabs.
That's a very important statement. You HAVE to be closely familiar with what a real coin looks like. The more experience you have with a real one, the easier it is to spot a fake with just a visual inspection. The stars are too far from the edge on the fake, the font of the date is too bold, and the edge just doesn't have the proper rounding when the coin is viewed from either side. And of course there are all the other differences mentioned in this video. I could spot this fake from ten feet away: not because I'm a genius but because I am so familiar with the coins.
Fisch is sold with a ringer nowadays. Have you tried the ringer on the fake coins? My experience is that US Eagles and Krugerrands give a long nice ring with the ringer while the 99.99 coins like Maple do not. The sound recording on Fisch's website for tungsten coin sounds like a Maple. That is why I stick with Eagles and Krugerrands when buying from Ebay.
The coins have long ago been turned over to the Secret Service. I do not have access to them and I have not come across any more examples. Perhaps your question should be asked to Fisch. I do not represent them. I have never purchased the testing devices they have. I do not have experience with them.
At first I couldn’t see the differences. However, the more I watched your video the more I realized there were many signs of counterfeit. Thanks for the tips.
I would be curious of weight. If it has a copper core it will be light. If it is tungsten, it will be really scary as the weight will be close. You can buy a good digital scale on amazon for less than $20.
If the only things different are the sound and the color, could a layman not 1 use a digital spectrometer to detect the color difference? and 2 use a sound waves display to see if the sound is correct?
wouldn't the ping test be the best determinant of authenticity? If you measure the weight and diameter and those check out, there's not another material out there that I'm aware of that can replicate the ping frequency, same for silver.
I hear of people weighing them and when they comeback slightly heavier they panic, not knowing they have alloys mixed in with them, ofcourse with silver it would-be a red flag, that's why these kinds of videos are as valuable as the metal itself, anyone getting into buying gold and silver must learn everything they can before getting into big trouble, thanx for taking time learning people, great video
Wow I never thought that the weight and dimensions would be the same as a real one. But I'm glad that I have very good hearing and also use that as my guide.
I noticed that on the fake coin, Liberty's hair on the right side of her neck (from her perspective) almost looks like the hair is missing. It could be the lighting but there is no missing hair there on the real coin.
Wow, thanks for the tips, you can really see the differences when shown side by side and pointed out. Crazy hair on that fake gold lady, but I can see how a non-pro would miss the clues.
If the coin is the same dimensions and weight of an actual gold eagle then it has to be the same density. It would either have to be made from either tungsten or real gold. Cut it in half and see what it looks like.
Tungsten has half the thermal conductivity of gold. Even if it were a tungsten slug coated with gold, the bulk would determine the conductance. Simply dip one side in hot water and measure how long it takes the other side to equilibrate. Full gold will do it twice as fast as full tungsten, and gold coated tungsten will fall in the middle.
Sounds like an old penny ring compared to the new penny thud on stone counter top. That's how we separate out the old pennies for the collection, and turn in the new pennies.
I have never handled a 1 ounce only 1/10 ounce ones and I could see that fake a mile away the color is not the same as my 1/10 ounce ones to yellow and not as fine of details. But if someone never had a real Gold eagle they wouldn't know the difference. I would love to know what it's made of.Great video
Market Harmony, there is a cheap app for android phones called Bullion Test that quickly does a frequency test after pinging the coin on your fingertip. It currently supports Eagles and it would be very interesting if you ran these coins through this app and posted the results.
Thanks for the excellent video. I would like to know if the Fisch would have detected the fakes. You mentioned you had not used it. Is it possible that you do test them with the Fisch for the benefit of those who have relied on the Fisch in the past (and maybe should not)? Thanks.
After all this time, another comment on your fantastic video. When you looked at the coin under a loupe or microscope, did the letters and numbers look dramatically different on the fake when compared to the genuine coin? Good lighting and a little magnification can real shine light onto a opossum.
You didn't mention that between the rays on the fake coins looked rough, as opposed to looking smooth, like the rest of the real coin. I noticed that right off. The rest is good to know, it's hard to tell what's real and what's not, just looking at them. I imagine the guy trying to sell the fake coins was arrested, since you have the coins, and you wouldn't have been dumb enough to pay for them.
If the volume (ie, diameter and thickness) are identical, then the weight can only be the same if the density of the alloy is about the same as the density of gold (19.32 g/cc). This can only be accomplished by alloying an element with a lower density than gold together with an element with a higher density. When you do the math, you discover that only by using an expensive, rare substance (such as rhodium which is more expensive than gold, or platinum which is also expensive) can you produce those results. In other words, if it is a counterfeit, then it cost more to make and has a comparable or even higher value than the gold itself. CONCLUSION: the coin with same diameter, thickness and weight was not counterfeit.
Thank you! I was once monetized but lack of new videos in the last few years has killed that... I hope to make more videos of better production value in the future. Stay tuned!
Don't let this video fool you... Most effective test is the "Specific Gravity Test." All metals weight are not close except Tungsten. Gold Specific gravity is 19.32 g/cm3 and Tungsten Specific Gravity is 19.25 g/cm3.
If fraud is involved, then yes, you call the appropriate authorities. In this instance, the coins were sent to me from a seller in Massachusetts, who had purchased the coins from another person, who had purchased them from the fraudster. Simply reverse the chain of custody as far as you can and then it is on that person to handle the claim with the proper authorities. In this case, it was only 3 transactions deep. If you deal with reputable people, then it makes it much easier to trace the counterfeit to its fraudulent past... The chain of custody has less hurdles as good people will work to resolve the problem through mutual trust. The Secret Service is the proper authority to contact when counterfeit coins are used to defraud. I did not need to involve the Secret Service because the person sending the coins to me did not intentionally try to defraud me. He did not need to involve the Secret Service because the person who sold to him did not intentionally try to defraud him. However, that person WAS intentionally defrauded and therefore contacted the Secret Service to find the fraudster. This supports the advice that you should find a reputable dealer and do business with them because some significant financial risks can be eliminated by only dealing with the right person.
I saw that immediately. People are still at it. A certain bunch use to shave coins hundreds of years ago. I’m very careful when I buy and I have 2 people who know more than I do and I trust them because of their great reputation.
question: so the genuine gold eagles have a distinct ring. but the maples do not, which is one of the reasons ive stuck with eagles, cause i dont think i could tell the diff between a tungston thud sound and a maple thud sound. so that makes me believe its not strictly the gold that makes the eagle have a nice ring.. is it possible a tungston core surrounded with copper and silver would ring like an eagle does?? thanks for all your help.. and good to see your vid is still going strong..
As you described, the resonance would be disturbed enough that even a not-so-keen ear should be able to distinguish between real and fake. Anything non-homogeneous will not ring true.
Just asking not trying to be a smart ass but you said 3 fakes came into the shop so why do you have them did you buy them or did you take them away from the customer or did the customer give them to you for a youtube video.
Typically it is people who have been duped already and then bring these in to liquidate. However, I have had to deal with scammers directly contacting the shop who try to see if they can get one over on me
Thanks for sharing, it's helps in educating the masses. I recommend your next step is to call the Secret Service since US coins being counterfeited is serious enough for them to investigate.
I thought the FBI got involved with counterfeit government issue gold. What exactly happen, and how did you get them from the person? Btw, thanks for showing
I’m actually surprised that the X ray gun failed in this test with the fake coin but accurately analyzed the real coin. Those X ray guns cost over $10,000
Check for chocolate inside
This is serious stuff but gotta admit that made me lmao lol
LLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL
LMOA !!!!!
Hahaha!👍
You made me laugh out loud. 👍
When you drop it on the table, the one that gives the thud sound is coated tungsten. That explains why the weight is very close to real. Gold should ring when gently dropped on the table.
When you rotate and see how the light reflect, the one which is stamped (real) shows a circular reflection. Because the surface is compressed when stamped. Electroplated one shows a dull reflection. (fake)
XRF (X-Ray) which uses a 50kV x-ray tube can only penetrate surface 10-15 microns. To fool this gun, you needed a plating more than 15 microns. Not difficult to do.
Your my new hero!! Thank you.
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I'm surprised weight didn't come in. It's clearly something gold-coated per the spectrometry. There aren't a lot of materials that can fake gold in terms of density etc.
What I found really interesting is how obvious the difference in resonance/sound was. Gold and silver both have a distinctive sound to them. That makes me more confident in that it seems the easiest test works the best.
so what's the point of that expensive gun if it only reads the surface???
It doesn't, it reads depth I can assure you. Other brands/models use connectable variation of wands for various size/thicknes bars and coins. He needs to recalibrate or he is not using correctly. My one can detect which metal, and % purity, and if a coin is plated it fails.
Cryptoversity what gun do you use
@@Cryptoversity I doubt it will catch an insert inside an 100 Oz bar.
@@abraham3981 I agree but I also think it is silly to own bars unless you saw it smelted.
@@Cryptoversity
Unless you buy directly from the the mint
If anyone has ever watched the movie The pianist with Adrien Brody, you remember the part in the restaurant where the man asks Adrian to stop playing the piano so he could drop gold coins on a table to get that distinctive sound, a few of them had the thud, a few of them had the ring to them. Caveat emptor, buyer beware.
Matthew Kuraja The Fisch would most likely be fooled by these fakes. However, I'm not 100% certain of this because I did not use a Fisch to test these. The weight of the fake was exactly the same as a US Mint 1 oz Gold Eagle, and though I did not use calipers to precisely measure the width, the fake and the genuine did have matching diameters when stacked together.
Check the molecular density of Tungsten and Gold... you will see that they are nearly identical. Therefore, gold and tungsten would be nearly identical in volume and mass. i.e. there are ways to fool instruments designed to test for these properties (which is what the Fisch offers). Train your eye and ear to the sight and sound of the precious metals.
I have to agree about sound. Even an untrained person can quickly recognize the difference given a few minutes with the real thing vs a chinese fake. I find the silver clink to be more obvious, but the gold ring is also very distinctive.
Another question.
I was always told one of the merits of gold as money instead of diamonds is that it's uniform in appearance. Meaning, its luster is the same from coin to coin. But the coins I have vary noticeably. Some look quite dull and some have a bit of a shine. Much like the image above. I bought them from a big (assumingly reputable then) dealer who told me the coins slightly vary in appearance because they were minted in different years.
Also, I bought a scale and weighed them. The scale goes to the thousands place and the coins vary at the thousands place. Note, the scale reads the coins' weights consistently but some are consistently different than others. When I google for the weight of a gold eagle, I'm given a very specific weight that goes much further out in fractions.
I still don't know anyone else that owns coins so I can't see if these observations I just listed are normal or not.
+Matthew Kuraja Hi
Gold may be 19.3, but that's if it's pure gold. Eagles are not pure gold, but have a composition of 91.67% Au 3% Ag 5.33% Cu.
Market Harmony probably not a fake, might be a private mint round of some sort, not an original gold eagle, just made to look like one, might be real gold
As a kid, I could recognize the sound of a silver quarter from a clad quarter, even several feet away. Not surprised this works for gold.
Dear friend ! Can You please show what the scale shows with both coins?
Have you ever used the sigma metalytics and if so what do you think of it.
I have and it's very accurate. It will detect the gold and silver content even through a slab.
like to see someone be held accountable for these fakes!
The Chinese used to do DVD's now gold coins ,they always fake something.Customs caught a shipment of coins coming to my area ,I just wish they could get them all ,I'm scared to buy any coin now ,even silver.
Silver is still good. Just need to know if they use nickel.
Claus Vlogs, silver coins are actually faked far more than gold coins.
alexander44444 they even fake honey
I wonder if Pandas sold by Apmex in sealed packets are fake?
Thanks for this. I just did a major purchase from a retailer I can trust but wanted to double-check anyway. Now that I know what to look for it seems pretty obvious which is the fake. Fortunately, my coins passed the test. The biggest giveaway for me was the thickness of the raised rim in the fake. I'm guessing that's how they add the extra material to make the weight correct.
Interesting, never considered the alloys in US Mint gold coins as being an anti-counterfeiting feature.
I was always told it was to harden the metal a bit.
For both reasons, actually. Pure gold is very soft; mixing in copper into the alloy hardens it, and silver helps it have a brighter luster to make up for the copper dulling it a bit. But it also makes it harder to fake. The fake one in this video is probably tungsten plated with almost pure gold. The fake's surface is thus a lot more yellow than the genuine coin because of that.
Tungsten metal
What are the fakes worth
In your opinion, how solid are the anti-counterfeiting methods on the newer maple leafs?
GetMeThere1... I've seen the Canadian Mint ads for the new tiny laser Maple on each coin now, that is unique to THAT coin. But where are you going to go to get that checked and how much will it cost for the service??? It'll slow the counterfeiters down for a few moments. 🤢
Things I noticed as a complete neophyte were: 1) The tone and color and finish of the fake, 2) The skeletal face on the fake...and 3) The angle of the eagles' heads on the rear. Of course this is with the benefit of a side-by-side comparison.
This is the scariest video I've ever seen.
Watch a video about Peak Oil.
Schmevel I know
This is a job for the secret service, it is there department after all
US Govt would like to scare people out of gold. They couldn't care less about this. Besides, all fed resources needed to continue "Russia, Russia, Russia" investigation.
Well, you're an idiot!
What happened with the XRF? I was going to get one but after seeing this, I’m questioning whether or not I should.
Was it plated with a high fineness Au?
Mike Smith if you watch the video he puts the xrf on the real gold coin and then said he’s not sure why it came up 99.8 real gold duh cause you didn’t put it on the fake one
@@johnnybowman4653 The real one wouldn't come up 99.8% real gold; it's an alloy of gold, copper, and silver. The fake one came up almost pure gold because it only read the outermost layer, which is likely nearly pure gold plating on another metal (quite likely tungsten).
Compelling tungsten counterfeits have been on the rise in recent years. For some time now, we have been working a simple method of detecting these fakes as an addition to the checks done by the Fisch. Called The Ringer, the new tool rings the coin. A 916 fine gold coin has a long distinct ring when struck; 999 fine gold a less distinct ring but a tungsten fake only produces a dull thud.
What about the 1/4 oz gold coins?
Just out of curiosity, find out what the density is with the two types of coins. I am wondering how much the fake is off.
where did you but that xray spectrometer gun and how much it cost?
Maybe I missed it, what was the weight?
If you want to verify what machine reads fake gold accurately, test the machine on both a known fake and known real sample, both using the machine and acid test. I have found that the Sigma PMV failed miserably in detecting fake gold and more likely than not reads real when the subject coin/bar is in fact fake.
Can the Thermo test gun read through 1oz gold bar that is sealed inside Assay Certificate protective cover? Much appreciated your finding...
It does not test "through" anything of significant density, such as metals. It can, however, test through the plastic card which holds a gold bar or coin and then test the surface of the item. The key point is that it will test the surface only, and not the entire depth of the dense item.
Thank you! Great video by the way, much appreciated you sharing it. There are lots of fake out there and they are improving. Scary time....
Will we get any follow up on the nature of the fake?
Are they tungsten with plating?
I hear a Chinese company is offering some of these with varying thickness of plating.
Fake gold coins made from gold plated tungsten are being sold unabashedly from China by the Shenzhen Shun Xin Da Handicraft Co., Ltd. You can read about their specifications @ www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Gold-Plated-Coins-Tungsten-Coins_1061192485.html?s=p . They also sell all sorts of other fake gold coins and bars @ sxd-badge.en.alibaba.com/productgrouplist-210760562/coin_gold_silver_bars.html .
Jade Nephrite Right. These criminals also make fake plated silver maple leafs. People need to be aware of these as many are being sold on ebay as real coins. They are nothing but counterfeiters, since they make replica coins and don't have identifying marks indicating that they are only plated.
Because of the ugly face I was doubtful of the one on the left, but the real coin looked to have less definition (until you moved them) also the real coin the buildings windows are undefined and the twig thing looks muddled up into the stars pattern. Also the clarity of the date on the fake looked better first glance. Gives a whole new meaning to "Too good to be true".
exactly. I too was deceived into thinking that the one on the left was real because of the details which triumphed the real on for the most part.
docthebiker twig thing = olive branch* :)
The boobs are different too
Why are 1oz gold coins more expensive than 1oz gold bars? What's best to start collecting?
In the first six or so years of production, gold Eagles had the dates in Roman numbers. I would think these years would be the least likely to be counterfeited as it would require even more detail. Just a thought from a nonexpert.
Why did you buy them? And how much did you buy them for?
Please, do a coin balance and pocket pinger test on the both of those ...
Not true on melting. You can do a specific gravity test (won't help with tungsten) and a sigma test (electrical conductivity and resistance). Also a ping test would help as it sounds different.
How can you tell, if you do not have a real one before-hand to compare it too?
Didn't realize eagles are 22 karat. Bought my first maple leaf and thought the eagle was counterfeit. The sizes were different and the sound was different. Scared the hell out of myself.
Another giveaway is that the date is way too easy to read for a Gold Eagle. I often have a lot of trouble making out the year on gold eagles and the 2003 date is way too clear and prominent.
What is that orange gun you were testing it with? It does not seem very good...
@Market Harmony - Can these fakes be legally owned if the word "specimen," for example, is conspicuously embossed on the reverse? I ask because they would make for nice, decorative “poker chips.”
Hey bud, interested in a MS69 1999-W with a W NGC?
Eek just realized these came from my home state, now im worried, luckily i only buy from reputable dealers.
Where can I purchase these replicas, I want to keep as a souvenir
Alibaba
In a world of deceit, why should we trust anything these days? I was looking to buy a few of these coins and I want to thank you for this video. The one thing I've learned from buying and selling silver for over 25 years is the shimmer, white Christmas lights is one of the best ways to find out if you have a real silver coin or a fake one. If you place a silver coin under a white Christmas light, you roll the coin around and you get that cartwheel effect. The cartwheel effect applies to silver bullion as well. Great video, thank you for this because I'm about to buy my first Eagle at a very high cost of $1932
What if your silver has a real matte finish that won't work
Will you publish the actual weight and diameter of these alledged fakes?
How was the weight the same? Was the fake made with tungsten?
This is why I think the electrical conductivity/resistivity machines are better. Those handheld x-ray fluorescence spectroscopy guns are $15,000 and only penetrate to less than 0.05 mm (i.e. they only really measure the surface). The electrical conductivity/resistivity machines sell for as low as $650 and can measure up to 4-12 mm deep and can measure through slabs.
It's not just the color, but the texture and the quality of the pressing. Anyone who has handled gold eagles would pick it up immediately.
That's a very important statement. You HAVE to be closely familiar with what a real coin looks like. The more experience you have with a real one, the easier it is to spot a fake with just a visual inspection. The stars are too far from the edge on the fake, the font of the date is too bold, and the edge just doesn't have the proper rounding when the coin is viewed from either side. And of course there are all the other differences mentioned in this video. I could spot this fake from ten feet away: not because I'm a genius but because I am so familiar with the coins.
Fisch is sold with a ringer nowadays. Have you tried the ringer on the fake coins? My experience is that US Eagles and Krugerrands give a long nice ring with the ringer while the 99.99 coins like Maple do not. The sound recording on Fisch's website for tungsten coin sounds like a Maple. That is why I stick with Eagles and Krugerrands when buying from Ebay.
The coins have long ago been turned over to the Secret Service. I do not have access to them and I have not come across any more examples. Perhaps your question should be asked to Fisch. I do not represent them. I have never purchased the testing devices they have. I do not have experience with them.
I am a late viewer. Would you recommend normal people to get a watchmaker loop? I have one because of my interest in watches
At first I couldn’t see the differences. However, the more I watched your video the more I realized there were many signs of counterfeit. Thanks for the tips.
I would be curious of weight. If it has a copper core it will be light. If it is tungsten, it will be really scary as the weight will be close. You can buy a good digital scale on amazon for less than $20.
These kind of videos are very important! One bad buy can ruin someone’s stack
If the only things different are the sound and the color, could a layman not 1 use a digital spectrometer to detect the color difference? and 2 use a sound waves display to see if the sound is correct?
wouldn't the ping test be the best determinant of authenticity? If you measure the weight and diameter and those check out, there's not another material out there that I'm aware of that can replicate the ping frequency, same for silver.
Dropping an authentic coin and a suspected counterfeit onto a hard surface one after another does the same thing.
Where do you buy the tuning fork tester?
So how did you get them from the customer? What did they say when you said they are fake?
I hear of people weighing them and when they comeback slightly heavier they panic, not knowing they have alloys mixed in with them, ofcourse with silver it would-be a red flag, that's why these kinds of videos are as valuable as the metal itself, anyone getting into buying gold and silver must learn everything they can before getting into big trouble, thanx for taking time learning people, great video
How much does a genuine one weigh in grams?
Wow I never thought that the weight and dimensions would be the same as a real one. But I'm glad that I have very good hearing and also use that as my guide.
I noticed that on the fake coin, Liberty's hair on the right side of her neck (from her perspective) almost looks like the hair is missing. It could be the lighting but there is no missing hair there on the real coin.
Wow, thanks for the tips, you can really see the differences when shown side by side and pointed out. Crazy hair on that fake gold lady, but I can see how a non-pro would miss the clues.
If the coin is the same dimensions and weight of an actual gold eagle then it has to be the same density. It would either have to be made from either tungsten or real gold. Cut it in half and see what it looks like.
Tungsten has half the thermal conductivity of gold. Even if it were a tungsten slug coated with gold, the bulk would determine the conductance. Simply dip one side in hot water and measure how long it takes the other side to equilibrate. Full gold will do it twice as fast as full tungsten, and gold coated tungsten will fall in the middle.
Sounds like an old penny ring compared to the new penny thud on stone counter top. That's how we separate out the old pennies for the collection, and turn in the new pennies.
How about a tone generator? The tone HZ should be on eagle 4498 hz 1 Oz
so did you buy them off of the guy or apprehend them?
What was the thickness? Specific gravity off?
I have never handled a 1 ounce only 1/10 ounce ones and I could see that fake a mile away the color is not the same as my 1/10 ounce ones to yellow and not as fine of details. But if someone never had a real Gold eagle they wouldn't know the difference. I would love to know what it's made of.Great video
Is the sound the coins make easy to counterfeit?
I guessed left immediately. It is good to handle the real thing, so you can get a sense of what it should look/feel ike.
Market Harmony, there is a cheap app for android phones called Bullion Test that quickly does a frequency test after pinging the coin on your fingertip. It currently supports Eagles and it would be very interesting if you ran these coins through this app and posted the results.
Thanks for the excellent video.
I would like to know if the Fisch would have detected the fakes. You mentioned you had not used it. Is it possible that you do test them with the Fisch for the benefit of those who have relied on the Fisch in the past (and maybe should not)?
Thanks.
The Fisch wouldn’t have worked, but The Ringer would.
After all this time, another comment on your fantastic video. When you looked at the coin under a loupe or microscope, did the letters and numbers look dramatically different on the fake when compared to the genuine coin? Good lighting and a little magnification can real shine light onto a opossum.
The date is set higher than genuine. However, the font was pretty similar.
How much is this coin worth? Do 1990 edition go for more money than current? Fakes appear bigger. I spotted it right away it's my fav coin👍
Pretty informative. Thanks. Are there reputable dealers you would recommend?
You didn't mention that between the rays on the fake coins looked rough, as opposed to looking smooth, like the rest of the real coin. I noticed that right off. The rest is good to know, it's hard to tell what's real and what's not, just looking at them. I imagine the guy trying to sell the fake coins was arrested, since you have the coins, and you wouldn't have been dumb enough to pay for them.
they are selling these in the open on alibaba. Tungsten core gold plated
Did it end up being tungsten?
Yes, it was a tungsten core with a thick layer of nearly pure gold.
@@MarketHarmony thanks for the response!!
If the volume (ie, diameter and thickness) are identical, then the weight can only be the same if the density of the alloy is about the same as the density of gold (19.32 g/cc). This can only be accomplished by alloying an element with a lower density than gold together with an element with a higher density.
When you do the math, you discover that only by using an expensive, rare substance (such as rhodium which is more expensive than gold, or platinum which is also expensive) can you produce those results.
In other words, if it is a counterfeit, then it cost more to make and has a comparable or even higher value than the gold itself.
CONCLUSION: the coin with same diameter, thickness and weight was not counterfeit.
Nah it's made from tungsten its really close to gold
"find a gold dealer you can trust", tee hee, good one!
Jewelers of Los Vegas lol
Hi Market Harmony! I just subscribed to your channel! Nice! 😎
Thank you! I was once monetized but lack of new videos in the last few years has killed that... I hope to make more videos of better production value in the future. Stay tuned!
Don't let this video fool you... Most effective test is the "Specific Gravity Test." All metals weight are not close except Tungsten. Gold Specific gravity is 19.32 g/cm3 and Tungsten Specific Gravity is 19.25 g/cm3.
As soon as you dropped it I knew it was pure gold. Only 24k makes that "thud" It may be fake but thats pure gold!!
where do you get a scanner like that
can you not perform the specific gravity test to estimate the percentage of gold in the coin?
Being counterfeit, they are probably illegal to own or sell. The dude needs to turn them over to the secret service.
So do u call the cops when this happens? What do u do in a situation like this?
If fraud is involved, then yes, you call the appropriate authorities. In this instance, the coins were sent to me from a seller in Massachusetts, who had purchased the coins from another person, who had purchased them from the fraudster. Simply reverse the chain of custody as far as you can and then it is on that person to handle the claim with the proper authorities. In this case, it was only 3 transactions deep. If you deal with reputable people, then it makes it much easier to trace the counterfeit to its fraudulent past... The chain of custody has less hurdles as good people will work to resolve the problem through mutual trust. The Secret Service is the proper authority to contact when counterfeit coins are used to defraud. I did not need to involve the Secret Service because the person sending the coins to me did not intentionally try to defraud me. He did not need to involve the Secret Service because the person who sold to him did not intentionally try to defraud him. However, that person WAS intentionally defrauded and therefore contacted the Secret Service to find the fraudster. This supports the advice that you should find a reputable dealer and do business with them because some significant financial risks can be eliminated by only dealing with the right person.
Market Harmony Thank u for the detailed explanation!
I saw that immediately. People are still at it. A certain bunch use to shave coins hundreds of years ago. I’m very careful when I buy and I have 2 people who know more than I do and I trust them because of their great reputation.
question: so the genuine gold eagles have a distinct ring. but the maples do not, which is one of the reasons ive stuck with eagles, cause i dont think i could tell the diff between a tungston thud sound and a maple thud sound. so that makes me believe its not strictly the gold that makes the eagle have a nice ring.. is it possible a tungston core surrounded with copper and silver would ring like an eagle does?? thanks for all your help.. and good to see your vid is still going strong..
As you described, the resonance would be disturbed enough that even a not-so-keen ear should be able to distinguish between real and fake. Anything non-homogeneous will not ring true.
Where did you buy them
Intense this was amazing would all fake coins be similar or are there better ones out there now I’m confused but I’m happy to learn the cart wheel
Just asking not trying to be a smart ass but you said 3 fakes came into the shop so why do you have them did you buy them or did you take them away from the customer or did the customer give them to you for a youtube video.
Are these typically brought in by people trying to pass known fakes or by suckers who got dumped?
Typically it is people who have been duped already and then bring these in to liquidate. However, I have had to deal with scammers directly contacting the shop who try to see if they can get one over on me
Hello , Any1 knows any good tool that i can buy so it shows 100% if the gold is real or fake ?
If the dimensions and the weight are correct it can only be tungsten inside.
how much did you pay for them
all that glitters is not gold
Not all those who wander are lost.
Thanks for sharing, it's helps in educating the masses. I recommend your next step is to call the Secret Service since US coins being counterfeited is serious enough for them to investigate.
I bought some gold on ebay that was a scam so thankfully someone had complained and ebay blocked the transaction.
I thought the FBI got involved with counterfeit government issue gold. What exactly happen, and how did you get them from the person? Btw, thanks for showing
The Secret Service deals with counterfeits. That's the sole reason for their existence. They were shipped from Massachusetts
I had a blind date that had a face similar to the one of fake. Yep...it WAS scary.
Is nationwide coin a fake dealer?
It’s legit I brought it to my coin dealer 👍
Where can I buy a gold Eagle
Lots of places sell them! My best bit of advice to to know with whom you are dealing and to trust but verify your purchases.
I’m actually surprised that the X ray gun failed in this test with the fake coin but accurately analyzed the real coin. Those X ray guns cost over $10,000
I also noticed the rims around the fakes are about twice as thick as the real one's rim.
if I ever buy any gold coins ill definitely be buying from a reputable dealer. too much money to risk.
Or you can just buy assayed gold bars like Pamp / Suisse.
@@nuttyberries4694 if they're faking us mint coins they're faking bars more