Yes, the thickness test is the easiest way to tell these apart. I saved my LCS thousands of dollars on gold when I saw these come in randomly one time. One was a Pamp Suisse one too. Sadly, they would not let me borrow to bars to make a video. Great job showing these and educating the public my friend.
Just bought a 20 gram one from a gold store. Was bored playing with a magnet and it pulled the magnet. I feel like a idiot. I got played like a fiddle.
You can buy those fake Perth ounce bars for $5 on Wish from a bunch of sellers. They're sold as gifts, souvenirs, toys, essentially as stage props, like a fake skull for a Macbeth play at your local community playhouse.
Remember the good ol' days? When you could buy a 24K gold chain for $10 from a guy in front of the local gas station? He would even dip it in the battery acid from his car battery to prove it was real! These days...you can't trust anybody. 😁
Thanks for sharing Speg, very informative. Always good to know and be up to date on the improvements counterfeiters do to make a fake bar realistic. On a side note, I recently picked up a GVS Bullion Tester to backup and confirm any test results from my primary tester, a Sigma Pro Mini. The primary reason I got the GVS machine is that It works like the Sigma, it tests through the packaging. But instead of testing for resistivity/conductivity of a metal, it checks the metal’s magnetism to determine authenticity.
Also the numbers aren't dotted on the original. I've also noticed the font on the face of the bar with the bird on the fake is thicker usually if that makes sense. Most of the fakes I saw were copper with gold plate. I would even suggest testing copper if gold doesn't work on the machine.
The zeros "0" in the serial numbers are the letter "O" in the Fake (2 dots opposed to 3 dots on top & bottom). And the tails are too close to the feet of the Kangaroos in the Fakes.
That's a fairly decent copy. I have no doubt that precious metals verifiers are being counterfeited that will indicate that fake bars, coins and bullion such as this one are authentic.
@@Spegtacular I'm glad you're amused. I don't buy bullion. If I did, I wouldn't be. Imagine that just a few years ago, these "stackers" would have said, "There's no way in hell someone is going to produce fake Gobrecht dollars in nearly perfect, but fake, PCGS holders." Well...they were wrong.
@@Spegtacular Interestingly enough, most of the fake ancients that I've encountered have been of metals appropriate for the coinage, but not a product of the state. The Vatican Museum has _the_ world class collection of falsified ancients; most of metals appropriate for the coin designation. I am unaware of a 2nd century counterfeit PCGS holder. You should do a show on it!!
I went to a pawn shop and the guy had 15 1oz Perth mint gold bars . I was going to buy one and I said hold up brought my Metal lytics verifier we tested all his bars . All fake . All flipping 15 bars . I do not trust the Perth mint bars unless from a reputable online dealer. I do trust Perth mint but only from a reputable dealer . Take care spegTacular
Who the heck can you trust? I mean once you receive the fake product; I am pretty sure by then, whoever sold it, will most likely block you or ghost you.
They usually use copper, nickle, zink alloy to make the fakes, but this one is not even the best fake I've seen. I have seen ones made from tungsten which has a density very similar to gold both are 19.3 grams per cubic centimeter. And then they coat that with gold. So it will look just like a hold bar have same dimensions and weight. But tungsten is not cheap either so only real "committed" forgeries use it.
Tungsten can show up with magnet tests and is amateur hour these days with counterfeits. “ Paramagnetism is where certain materials are attracted to an external field but will not be permanently magnetized. Tungsten is as example of paramagnetic material with a strong positive magnetic susceptibility of 8.44. Diamagnetic materials create an induced magnetic flux in the opposite direction of an applied magnetic field. Diamagnetic materials are repulsed by magnetic fields. Diamagnetic force is the opposite of paramagnetic force and has a negative value. Examples of paramagnetic metals are gold (-3.44) and silver (-2.38)” I’ve shown a tool on my channel before that is great at detecting tungsten coated gold and it was super cheap. The goldlock
I’m going to invest in a Sigma soon. This is the reason I have always avoided buying Pandas. I’m not sure if it’s still the case, but a lot of them were being counterfeit at one point.
My Dad got ripped off buying fake Silver from China. Do not buy precious metals from there. I heard that the government has given licenses to companies to counterfeit.
I can give you a heads up, unfortunately, the first gold bar i ever bought outside of a local LCS/dealer was one of these. i had 2 different shops test it, it was 95.2% CU and there was trace amounts of AG,AU,ZN and NI. I have pics aswell. Thankfully, the guy who sold it was an honorable sort and didnt bug off when confronted, he promptly refunded my money for an exchange, but scariest moment of my life was when i saw that it was fake.
You should have tested on your PM tester for Silver as that’s a dense material could’ve been gold plated silver? which would equate to the very close size and weight
Probably just brass which is mostly copper. It's not hard to distinguish though even inside the package because it has to be more than double as thick as the legit one to get the same weight.
Wow more amazing video friend!! And I do not like any types of any of Fake Silver & Gold 255% >:( And Apmex do not like Fake Coins Bar Bullion Round too
A few years ago I went with my Dad to the local pawnshop. He was selling a 1 oz Gold bar in a package like you showed. They asked where did you get it and he said Ebay. They removed the packaging and cut it in half before saying it was real and they paid.
If coin shops are determined to test the products coming into their shop then they should let you test it before you buy. For me it's not that I don't trust the shops. I just don't trust the metal just like they don't.
A metal detector with a meter ( like a whites 6000 DI ) will easily tell you if that is gold or not. I check every purchase be it silver or gold 6 ways to Sunday. It all comes down to do your own diligence, preferably before you buy. The perth mint should really be serialzing their bars. That in my opinion would make for a better product and sure to sell more bars.
@@Spegtacular they would, but I never bothered as I was mostly buying silver bars. I've picked up some nice vintage silver art bars from their stock and a couple more interesting things from the dollar over spot box (way back when) Also pulled out a few 100 mills plated and fake silver bars that I told the worker that they might want to take a second look at 🤔 Kinda validated that I knew what was what.
💙 it might be interesting to see what happens if you melt it.. then pour it and see if is still resembles gold ? .. 🤔 just a thought. Another well done video Speg! 👍
This is so discouraging. I'm retired and on a fixed income. I haven't been able to stack any gold for a while now, but I do like to put back some silver when I can, but with the high premiums I've been concentrating mostly on my type set. Even there I'm only buying coins that are slabbed by one of the three major grading companies. I can see where a new collector was taken by some low life selling fakes might quit all together, and that is the last thing I want to see happen.
Want to let you know counterfeiters are now making slabbed counterfeit coins of various denominations (that have slab markings as if they WERE from major grading companies). Just FYI.
@@mikeobrien4437 Hello Mike, thanks for your reply. It's important information for everyone to know. I've been a coin collector for right at fifty years now, and one thing I know is to only buy from a trusted source, so I deal with one dealer online who I know I can trust as well as a local coin shop. So, for the younger generation of collectors, read, study, research, join a club, find a reputable dealer or two, and stick with them. Then enjoy the hobby.
A ton of dental work is made in China now- I'd be leery of any gold crown and bridgework your dentist is selling you. Definitely test that before paying for the install...
QUESTIONS: a) Why would a collector/stacker purchase a TESTED and PROVEN gold bar . . . knowing of the great difficulty it might bring - when later trying to sell it to wary, potential purchasers (including some dealers that just wouldn't want the possible hassle such inventory might cause)? b) Would it NOT be helpful for a Mint to embed some type of true security feature upon the gold bars (like the Royal Canadian Mint has done respective to its gold Maple Leaf coins)?
What is the resale value of a Perth Mint 5 gram bar, on the assay card? It seems that after the initial (naive) person buys it, then good luck selling it to another person.
Absolutely. They're one of the big bullion houses that gets to buy directly from mints and that includes the very limited amount of businesses that can buy directly from the US mint.
How about a follow up video and use an XRF to let us know what junk is in that thing? Have heard about all the counterfeiting and even in slabs now!! They need to track these people down and prosecute or have harsh sanctions!
imagine... detecting a fake 1 oz gold will pay off the sigma tester... And just imagine again... after 10 years, one brings his stack of gold bars to the LCS... only hearing from them : "Sir, so sorry all your stack of gold bars are fake..."
Fantastic information thanks for putting this video out brother appreciate it very much I had no idea they made such good fakes of these, I only have one and thankfully it’s real
Another very usuful vivid from you - JM Bullion is not shiping coins to Ireland - any idea where can I buy US quarters ( America the Beautiful & State quarters along with silver ones) please let know if you know.Thanks in advance.Tom.
Hi there I meant that Dublin mint doesnt have them Im originly from Poland but long time in Ireland but dont have any buddies that live in America to send me quarters over here - had bought 10 coins from Dutch mint but rather expensive way - also have thought about contacting with The coin guy regarding purchuse from him maybe?
I just got two of those and they were fake. Exact same one. The kangaroos were off and the packaging was off to. The weight of mine was 12.00 grams when a legit one is over 15.00 grams.
Yes, the thickness test is the easiest way to tell these apart. I saved my LCS thousands of dollars on gold when I saw these come in randomly one time. One was a Pamp Suisse one too. Sadly, they would not let me borrow to bars to make a video. Great job showing these and educating the public my friend.
Just bought a 20 gram one from a gold store. Was bored playing with a magnet and it pulled the magnet. I feel like a idiot. I got played like a fiddle.
You can buy those fake Perth ounce bars for $5 on Wish from a bunch of sellers. They're sold as gifts, souvenirs, toys, essentially as stage props, like a fake skull for a Macbeth play at your local community playhouse.
Remember the good ol' days? When you could buy a 24K gold chain for $10 from a guy in front of the local gas station? He would even dip it in the battery acid from his car battery to prove it was real! These days...you can't trust anybody. 😁
I have a perth 5 gram from a few years ago. I wonder how long they been making fakes like this. Makes me nervous now.
Thanks for sharing Speg, very informative. Always good to know and be up to date on the improvements counterfeiters do to make a fake bar realistic.
On a side note, I recently picked up a GVS Bullion Tester to backup and confirm any test results from my primary tester, a Sigma Pro Mini. The primary reason I got the GVS machine is that It works like the Sigma, it tests through the packaging. But instead of testing for resistivity/conductivity of a metal, it checks the metal’s magnetism to determine authenticity.
Hi Speg, the comparison of color of the gold and vitamin pee was funny yet spot on. Thanks for another good video.
I agree, Speg, this is absolutely disgusting. Very informative video, thank you for sharing.
Would be interesting to see it melted to see if any metals separate from each other. Thanks for the video.
Also the numbers aren't dotted on the original. I've also noticed the font on the face of the bar with the bird on the fake is thicker usually if that makes sense. Most of the fakes I saw were copper with gold plate. I would even suggest testing copper if gold doesn't work on the machine.
Thank you Shore Stacker for helping Speg create another fabulous video. Thank you for the video Speg.
It's cruel how people do this.
At least most fake bars still have gold plating...
12.37g - 4.87g = 7.50g tare weight. Now we can establish how much a real 5g Perth Mint bar should weigh inside the Assay card, 12.5 grams.
Is SD Bullion a trusted source? I hope so.
I’m awaiting two 1/4 ounce gold Eagles.
Yes. SD is a trusted source. I like JM Bullion and they have super fast shipping.
Yes.
Smooth the cut edges with a fine grind wheel and the inner metal is observed..
Great video. Learned a lot. Keep posting my friend.
Thanks for your education
The zeros "0" in the serial numbers are the letter "O" in the Fake (2 dots opposed to 3 dots on top & bottom). And the tails are too close to the feet of the Kangaroos in the Fakes.
Thanks for giving us a few tips of identifying these fakes, now I will be able to tell before I buy
Where did it get purchased from? Online bullion store, eBay, Lcs?
Unsure where it ultimately originated from.
From Wish
Point more than a finger
Hmmm I wonder who could be making these Chinese fakes 🤔
That's a fairly decent copy. I have no doubt that precious metals verifiers are being counterfeited that will indicate that fake bars, coins and bullion such as this one are authentic.
Fake verifiers! That’s hilarious.
@@Spegtacular And he has no doubt 😂
@@Spegtacular I'm glad you're amused. I don't buy bullion. If I did, I wouldn't be. Imagine that just a few years ago, these "stackers" would have said, "There's no way in hell someone is going to produce fake Gobrecht dollars in nearly perfect, but fake, PCGS holders." Well...they were wrong.
But they’ve been faking coins since the creation of coins.. they haven’t been faking the “ping test” ;)
@@Spegtacular Interestingly enough, most of the fake ancients that I've encountered have been of metals appropriate for the coinage, but not a product of the state. The Vatican Museum has _the_ world class collection of falsified ancients; most of metals appropriate for the coin designation. I am unaware of a 2nd century counterfeit PCGS holder. You should do a show on it!!
I went to a pawn shop and the guy had 15 1oz Perth mint gold bars . I was going to buy one and I said hold up brought my Metal lytics verifier we tested all his bars . All fake . All flipping 15 bars . I do not trust the Perth mint bars unless from a reputable online dealer. I do trust Perth mint but only from a reputable dealer . Take care spegTacular
Bet the pawn shop ignored your testing and kept selling them... Better to report it to police.
He pulled them out the counter I left never went back . And your correct probably should of called the authorities
(lol) I was eating lunch and lost my appetite. Excellent video, though!
Who the heck can you trust? I mean once you receive the fake product; I am pretty sure by then, whoever sold it, will most likely block you or ghost you.
They usually use copper, nickle, zink alloy to make the fakes, but this one is not even the best fake I've seen. I have seen ones made from tungsten which has a density very similar to gold both are 19.3 grams per cubic centimeter. And then they coat that with gold. So it will look just like a hold bar have same dimensions and weight. But tungsten is not cheap either so only real "committed" forgeries use it.
Not to mention tungsten is a super hard metal making it extremely hard to machine into the correct shape
Tungsten can show up with magnet tests and is amateur hour these days with counterfeits.
“ Paramagnetism is where certain materials are attracted to an external field but will not be permanently magnetized. Tungsten is as example of paramagnetic material with a strong positive magnetic susceptibility of 8.44. Diamagnetic materials create an induced magnetic flux in the opposite direction of an applied magnetic field. Diamagnetic materials are repulsed by magnetic fields. Diamagnetic force is the opposite of paramagnetic force and has a negative value. Examples of paramagnetic metals are gold (-3.44) and silver (-2.38)”
I’ve shown a tool on my channel before that is great at detecting tungsten coated gold and it was super cheap. The goldlock
Hey SpagTacular what I saw was the serial # was a Dot Matrix type and like you said it was crooked too!
I’m going to invest in a Sigma soon. This is the reason I have always avoided buying Pandas. I’m not sure if it’s still the case, but a lot of them were being counterfeit at one point.
Nice picture 📷 👍 👌
My Dad got ripped off buying fake Silver from China. Do not buy precious metals from there. I heard that the government has given licenses to companies to counterfeit.
I’ve seen fake Pandas and Pandas that were legit but slightly off purity.
@@rayk126 silver is cheap unless it is 1 kilo bar
I can give you a heads up, unfortunately, the first gold bar i ever bought outside of a local LCS/dealer was one of these. i had 2 different shops test it, it was 95.2% CU and there was trace amounts of AG,AU,ZN and NI. I have pics aswell. Thankfully, the guy who sold it was an honorable sort and didnt bug off when confronted, he promptly refunded my money for an exchange, but scariest moment of my life was when i saw that it was fake.
By the way, it was literally this bar^ 10g version though. I dont think i'll ever buy a Perth again, just based on the fear it gave me.
After this video I would not buy any perth products regardless of the step by step process especially with constant changing of packaging.
Very interesting, sad to hear! Thank you for your service!
hmm . was just thinking my metal detector would/might give 2 or more signels if there was more than one metal in the bar .
You should have tested on your PM tester for Silver as that’s a dense material could’ve been gold plated silver? which would equate to the very close size and weight
Thanks for keeping us all on the loop I’ve seen these elsewhere as well Speg so sad I love the Perth mint all good things to you 🌈😇🙏©️💦✅🍎much love from Australia
some even use fake reciepts from reputable source /shop (wich is not hard to counterfit) and use that, to make (usually) old people more trusting....
Thank-you for this information, sir!
Assay cards are the problem
True. They're such a non-assurance in this day and age.
The same goes for graded coin slabs. The amount of counterfeits today (hologram and all) have really exploded.
@@Skulllywag yeah, and the grading companies are trash to begin with... Or at least NCG or ones that can provide notes
Excellent video thanks for sharing.
Probably just brass which is mostly copper. It's not hard to distinguish though even inside the package because it has to be more than double as thick as the legit one to get the same weight.
Very instructive stream. Be careful everyone! Only spend the money if it is tested.
Thank you for sharing. It is sure scary.
Wow more amazing video friend!!
And
I do not like any types of any of Fake Silver & Gold 255% >:(
And
Apmex do not like Fake Coins Bar Bullion Round too
A few years ago I went with my Dad to the local pawnshop. He was selling a 1 oz Gold bar in a package like you showed. They asked where did you get it and he said Ebay. They removed the packaging and cut it in half before saying it was real and they paid.
i had a dream about fake coins sticking to a magnet last night it was awful
That’s a bad dream
But why would they wanna cut coins when they won't be able to re-sell?
They melt the gold it doesn't matter if it's cut.
@@rayk126 jewellers lol
Talent without money, coach, vision and mission is a piteous adventure.
Just bought a 10g perth bar, second guessing it now. Older year with B series#. Not magnetic but now a little nervous.
If coin shops are determined to test the products coming into their shop then they should let you test it before you buy. For me it's not that I don't trust the shops. I just don't trust the metal just like they don't.
A metal detector with a meter ( like a whites 6000 DI ) will easily tell you if that is gold or not.
I check every purchase be it silver or gold 6 ways to Sunday.
It all comes down to do your own diligence, preferably before you buy.
The perth mint should really be serialzing their bars.
That in my opinion would make for a better product and sure to sell more bars.
Does your local shop let you bring that puppy in? 😂
@@Spegtacular they would, but I never bothered as I was mostly buying silver bars.
I've picked up some nice vintage silver art bars from their stock and a couple more interesting things from the dollar over spot box (way back when)
Also pulled out a few 100 mills plated and fake silver bars that I told the worker that they might want to take a second look at 🤔
Kinda validated that I knew what was what.
LCS should have UV lights. They are used to check some currency and most LCS take large sums of cash. Doesn't make sense.
💙 it might be interesting to see what happens if you melt it.. then pour it and see if is still resembles gold ? .. 🤔 just a thought. Another well done video Speg! 👍
I dare not melt fake bars. No telling what is in them that could be released into my lungs. I highly don’t recommend doing that.
I would have no clue. Also cant even really see the difference. It's so slight its unnoticeable
Where can you purchase the equipment that you use in your video. As usual, great information you provide.
Which ones exactly? Google should lead you to any if you type in the name.
New sub. Watched several videos. How much is that tester?
UV flashlights are pretty cheap on amazon. And pretty fun to use to hunt scorpions.
GREAT video! 😱👍
I haven't caught any fakes yet but I'm glad I purchased a Sigma myself. I greatly appreciate you showing us the newest Chinese fakes. Thank you!
If you do the Sigma has just paid for itself.
That metal is called Chinesium! 😂
i wish there was a cheaper metal verifier available
Speg is the bar number normally made up with dot's or is that a way of telling it's fake
From what I’ve seen, real authentic pieces can be dots
What if the lead bar coating thicker layer gold material?. Can this machine read correctly
This is so discouraging. I'm retired and on a fixed income. I haven't been able to stack any gold for a while now, but I do like to put back some silver when I can, but with the high premiums I've been concentrating mostly on my type set. Even there I'm only buying coins that are slabbed by one of the three major grading companies. I can see where a new collector was taken by some low life selling fakes might quit all together, and that is the last thing I want to see happen.
Want to let you know counterfeiters are now making slabbed counterfeit coins of various denominations (that have slab markings as if they WERE from major grading companies). Just FYI.
@@mikeobrien4437 Hello Mike, thanks for your reply. It's important information for everyone to know. I've been a coin collector for right at fifty years now, and one thing I know is to only buy from a trusted source, so I deal with one dealer online who I know I can trust as well as a local coin shop. So, for the younger generation of collectors, read, study, research, join a club, find a reputable dealer or two, and stick with them. Then enjoy the hobby.
When in doubt, buy reputable
@@lindanelson8400 Linda- Glad to know you are going to people you can trust. That is what I do also!
Looks like wheat bread inside lol
A ton of dental work is made in China now- I'd be leery of any gold crown and bridgework your dentist is selling you. Definitely test that before paying for the install...
QUESTIONS:
a) Why would a collector/stacker purchase a TESTED and PROVEN gold bar . . . knowing of the great difficulty it might bring - when later trying to sell it to wary, potential purchasers (including some dealers that just wouldn't want the possible hassle such inventory might cause)?
b) Would it NOT be helpful for a Mint to embed some type of true security feature upon the gold bars (like the Royal Canadian Mint has done respective to its gold Maple Leaf coins)?
look up "Kinebar"
What is the resale value of a Perth Mint 5 gram bar, on the assay card?
It seems that after the initial (naive) person buys it, then good luck selling it to another person.
that is really scary thanks for sharing thumbs up algorithm food
Good information
Exchange Bullion is a good source?
Gold being a relatively soft metal, would you try bending the bar. I can't bend our basically copper quarter or half dollar.
It makes you wonder if the country of origin has anything to do with this??? Mom and pop shops can’t make them look this good.
I have a counterfeit Perth that test 999 gold on a sigma tester. It looks just like the fake in your video but it's a 10 gram
Is JM bullion a reputable source to buy one?
Absolutely. They're one of the big bullion houses that gets to buy directly from mints and that includes the very limited amount of businesses that can buy directly from the US mint.
You just need a Sigma Metalytics Precious Metal Verifier 2 Wand Basic Set - can be used thru any slab
The serail number B is tilted, and a real one to compare makes it easy to pick.
The cellophane is the first red flag... all knock off stuff comes in that stuff
How about a follow up video and use an XRF to let us know what junk is in that thing? Have heard about all the counterfeiting and even in slabs now!! They need to track these people down and prosecute or have harsh sanctions!
Apmex and 9Fine gold bars tend to develop copper spots. does that mean they are not .9999?
That’s why I only stick with gold coins.
Why don't people just stick with recognized bullion coins? These "bars" seem rather pointless.
imagine... detecting a fake 1 oz gold will pay off the sigma tester... And just imagine again... after 10 years, one brings his stack of gold bars to the LCS... only hearing from them : "Sir, so sorry all your stack of gold bars are fake..."
Fantastic information thanks for putting this video out brother appreciate it very much I had no idea they made such good fakes of these, I only have one and thankfully it’s real
That's scary.
No bars for me
I would just never buy perth mint bars. If they do not make them safer, I just buy something else.
Another very usuful vivid from you - JM Bullion is not shiping coins to Ireland - any idea where can I buy US quarters ( America the Beautiful & State quarters along with silver ones) please let know if you know.Thanks in advance.Tom.
I’m not sure! Any Irish brothers and sisters out there that can help them??
Hi there I meant that Dublin mint doesnt have them Im originly from Poland but long time in Ireland but dont have any buddies that live in America to send me quarters over here - had bought 10 coins from Dutch mint but rather expensive way - also have thought about contacting with The coin guy regarding purchuse from him maybe?
If you want to return defenetly you can not get a gold bar out of plastic slab
It's not to difficult to fake the card , only buy from reputable dealers never off eBay 👍
great info Speg. Keep us informed.
ROFLMAO pee yellow 💛 that's a first for gold
Do you think we should be concerned with fakes coming from places like JM, SD or Ampmex?
They’re reputable, buy from big mints, and have state of the art mechanical tests for their metals. You should be quite ok.
Just watched another vid on fake perths, these guys had a XRF Machine, damn good fakes.
Genuine gold plated bullion
i was never much of a gold person.
Probably Nordic gold.....some alloy that looks decent.
I just got two of those and they were fake. Exact same one. The kangaroos were off and the packaging was off to. The weight of mine was 12.00 grams when a legit one is over 15.00 grams.
A raw material for Nordic gold, similar to 10-50 euro cents ?!🕵️
I have 2 1oz credit suisse and dimensions are different?
Is one of them fake?
Yikes maybe. How different?
@@Spegtacular by 2mm hightand 2mm width.
Anything on thickness?
2mm is a big deal on gold btw
@@Spegtacular it is little thicker.
Could it be different years?
you should have weighed the packaging for us. other wise great video