The argument ends with this. Jordan had that killer instinct. He didn't just wanna beat you. He wanted to humiliate you. Beat you mentally and physically and leave a lasting impression in your psyche that would never leave. He wanted to kill you competively so you were defeated from that point going forward and he'd never have worry about you ever again!!! LeBitch is "buddies" with most dudes he plays against. Also 6 for 6 in finals never going to a game 7 and winning MVP in every finals. Also look how world famous Jordan and his brand became without social media and all the tools at LeBitch's disposal. Jordan first player turned owner turned BILLIONAIRE. also Jordan ain't wearing LeBitch's number, jersey, or shoes. LeBitch and every player after Jordan wanted to be Jordan wear 23 , and wear those Jordan's man.
A bunch of 15 year olds that vote for lebron as the goat lmao,, I can tell you now lebron is not better than kobe, and kobe was the closest player to mj,, so on that note,, lebron will never be the goat
@@ozzee5094 Naw Mamba. Remember all that talk when Kobe was this age and not winning in LA...blah blah...sure looks familiar. No way his soft mental ass would have hung up 5 out of 7 in LA. Hell the 1 has a BIG ASS * on it now.
@@tommytee7714 lol " he is humble"... try asking for an autograph like chamillionaire did. Also oj mayo once said that Jordan told him " you might be the best high school player but I'm the best player in the world". Wilt chamberlain said that they asked Jordan "are you the greatest ever? And Jordan without hesitation said yes". Then of course the story of Jordan and wilt debating over who was the greatest between them 2. Punching his teammates and telling them them "you're a loser and will always be a loser" is a real sign of someone who's "humble" right?
@@MikeHawk-yg3gkHe may have said stuff like that jokingly, but whenever he did lose earlier in his career he gave all the credit to his opponents and never threw his teammates under the bus or came out to the press scrim with a woman's scarf around his hand to save face that he once again choked on the big one at the big one.
@@brandonroque2226 🤦♂️😒 you guys always have excuses for your lord and savior Michael Jordan. And only you guys would consider losing to a better team "choking". So I guess Jordan was choking against the Celtics and pistons in the 80s right? He choked when he scored 63.
For those of us who were alive to witness his greatness, know the truth. Felt the wake of his airness and couldn't resist becoming a fan. MJ and his teammates blew up the basketball scene worldwide.
I'm 43 and I remember something you fan girls love to leave out how he got smoked in the first round without scottie, not saying James is better but he did more with less talent oh he got swept in the finals rather be the finals then first round Jordan, I watched the bulls build a super team around Jordan while I also watched teams build super teams to best LeBron just facts if you switch places LeBron gets the same amount of title if not more, caves wasn't interested in spending money they had James and felt he was enough but it's a team sport so he always came up short until he got some talent around him in Miami, bring up rings well russle has more so fail all stats people bring up there's always someone ahead of Jordan now LeBron being one of them
@@wickid-the-rogue "I watched the bulls build a super team around Jordan while I also watched teams build super teams to best LeBron ". You are absolutely delusional. Name one player that the Jordan era Bulls traded for or signed that it was a "Oh shit! Did you see who the Bulls got?? They got.......Darrell Walker? Dennis Hopson?" The best 2 players they signed during the Jordan era was Ron Harper, and an aging Dennis Rodman who had a lot of issues. Jerry Krause, GM of the Bulls, has even said that Jordan never came to him demanding they trade for or draft certain players. Meanwhile, aside from the beginning in Cleveland, the rest of Lebron's career has been him going to teams either bringing loaded players with him, or went back to Cleveland who had 7 first round draft picks (4 of those in the top 5 picks) in the years prior to LBJ coming back. He was essentially the GM many years deciding who they'd trade away, who they'd get, etc. A month or so after winning the title in 2016, LBJ was already crying that their team needed better players if they were going to be a winner. For as much money that teams have spent to accommodate LBJ, the trade picks they traded to get players for LBJ, etc., it's an absolute embarrassment that he only has 4 titles. Pathetic.
When your own teammate, on a year when your team won the championship, says your not the GOAT, that is significant. Ray Allen is an all-time record holder and NBA champ himself. He played against Jordan and played with James. Allen is definitely qualified to make that statement that MJ is better.
For as great of a basketball player as Ray Allen is and was, he is wrong. Ray Allen, fundamentally speaking, was a better basketball player than both Jordan and James. Better shooter, super athletic, excellent ball handler, and understood the game very well. He could create his own shot, shoot efficiently from anywhere, he had it all. He was Jesus Shuttlesworth. But surely he can understand, that as good as he was, he was no Lebron James. A physical specimen, freakishly gifted, etc. Ray Allen could do anything on the court Jordan could do. He can't do everything Lebron could. Surely Ray Allen, as intelligent as he is, can understand this. He doesn't mention any of it. Why? Does he not understand? Or is he being dishonest? I think too highly of Ray Allen's intellect to think he doesn't understand this. I think he's just being dishonest for some reason I have no information to explain.
@@letmediecast very arguable I don’t think lebron is stronger than prime Jordan but clearly we was talking skill here backing down a big is not skill either u big enough to do it or not thts tht
@@runegeezyyou're right that it is a bit of a dishonest argument but that doesn't mean his conclusion is wrong. I have Jordan too because nobody ever looked better doing it.
there's been a debate for the longest time yall just love meat riding bron. Timmy has a case, Kareem has a case, Bill has a case. but yall chose bron to meat ride and slander. why?
Lbj changed it as well, but for the worse! Taking games off, ruining the competitive nature of how teams are built. Kobe RIP told him to move the game forward but he did exactly the opposite!
Jordan was consistent. He never took a day off for low management. When he was on the court, he was coming at you from both sides, offense and defense. He was relentless!
Bro pls. Jordan basically quit basketball and then had to come back. Lebron takes load management at the age of 38. Jordan was heaving up and down at that age. Show some respect
@@alvingeorge775 that boi bron played one full season Jordan on the other hand played nine not to mention at 40 years old mj played one full season so let that sink in brother
Based on what evidence? Because the evidence suggests otherwise. Factual statistics suggest otherwise. So how can you come to such an outcome? Do you now believe in facts? Does Lebron not own the most coveted record in sports? And still isn’t done. MJ retired because he had to. The myth of who he really was, was revealed to us 2 times in his career. Years 1-7, and years 14-15… it revealed that without Scotty and Phil… MJ was just a really good ball hog.
I’ll end the simple debate. Any player known to “flop” is discredited in any goat conversations. James is well known to flop and even sit out games. Jordan never flopped or purposely “chose” to sit out games.
Right on! as i said in another comment, imagine the horror of GOAT bball player not only flopping, and outright quitting regular season games because of not liking something. Players used the frustration to heck win, not blow up and quit, somebody point me to a game where mj did not foul out, but outright sat out the whole game because he was upset? the "flu game" or food poisoning he still rained it down.
@@timelord2745 for sure none of us would look at mj or Kobe the same if they did that. But he gets a pass for crying on the bench when they lost in the finals in 2014
To me, two words that come to mind, when thinking MJ, are 'flawless' and 'fearless'. His shooting, his dribbling, his layups and, yes, his defence were so refined, it was a joy to watch him - he was essentially poetry in motion. Then there was the fearlessness. He wouldn't back down not even when the Pistons were imposing the infamous 'Jordan rule'. These two aspects together elevate him to the status of the undeniable GOAT. LBJ has a long way to go before he can even aspire to that.
True, I hated MJ coz I was a big Pacers and Reggie Miller fan and he eliminated them in the ECF. But after he retired, it's like the NBA is not the same anymore.
@Allen G. I love how people say that yet I can find tons of minutes of some of the most pathetic defense possible. Good defense doesn’t take checking someone with your body, you’re supposed to play the ball.
Watching Lebron is even more of poetry in motion. One of the greatest passers of all time, one of the greatest scorers, one of the greatest defenders of all time LeBron doesn’t get enough credit for the defender he is can lock anyone up one except for KD, which no one can lock him up anyway, and can effectively shut down anyone on the court cuz of his overwhelming athleticism. And not to mention he’s been the head coach and the GM on every team he’s been on. Unquestionably the goat will take on any challenge. Jordan will not take on any challenge all he gone do is score and defend an unathletic garbage man of a shooting guard cuz that’s what the 90s was full of. Oh and if u wanna say rings is all that matters then why isn’t Bill Russell the goat? Lebron over Jordan🐐🐐🐐
@Allen G. Nah the league is full of skilled players on every team now the 80s and 90s had a few superstar players and only a few championship caliber teams. The league is stock full of superstar players now and a lot more can compete for championships nowadays. Jordan dominated the most untalented, unskilled era of basketball which was the 90s. None of his finals opponent were even as good as 2011 mavericks maybe for the exception the Jazz who had JEFF HORNACEK trying to guard MICHAEL JORDAN, Give me a break what a mismatch. Oh and the nice push off on Byron Russell to get that wide open mid range jumper can’t forget about that one.
@@CheapRubbers I couldn’t agree more. The nba is more tactical nowadays back then in the 90s they didn’t have players who would put u in a multi move torture chamber and then hit a step back right in ur face. The league is full of that now and Jordan and pippen and Gary Payton would get exhausted trying to guard that.
Watched both of them and I agreed with Ray. Jordan would kill my Knicks and I hated him😃😁.However you had to end up respecting him. The man was an assassin who would put a dagger in any team’s heart.Jordan was a killer, who played in a time when you drive to the basket, you get mauled. There is no comparison, Jordan all day long.
Finally someone said it. If you ask someone on the street who the best basketball player is, 9 times out of 10 they are NOT saying LeBron, he's very skilled but not MJ skilled. I just cant imagine putting LeBron over MJ in the GOAT debate, it's just never happening
Honestly, he's not skilled. A skilled player would be someone like Dream or Black Mamba. They had a bag of tricks. Lebron doesn't have a bag. Running opponents over or flopping isn't a skill. Lebron has a high basketball IQ. That's about it.
When did Bron pass Kobe? Cause Kobe was the closest thing to Jordan we fans ever saw. Kobe won 5 rings. He made 7 Finals. Look up how many all NBA defensive teams he made. 81 pts in a game, 62 pts in only 3 quarters. Mike the Kobe both got a 3 peat. No team has done it since Kobe/Shaq Lakers and Mike did it twice. Kobe keeps being moved up or for the most part pushed down these top 10 lists. Kinda wondering what he did from beyond the grave that made him a worse player 😂
@@rodneyc8126 Agreed. He has no go to move. He has no set of moves. He's never been a great shooter. His FG% outside of 8 feet is atrocious. He's just big and barrels into people. There are 20-25 players I can think of that are way more skilled than Lebron.
@@roboninja3194 Really annoying when the media puts him above Jordan. Have those idiots seen MJ play? That dude was a once in a lifetime player. Lebron is a good player but he ain't no where near 🐐 status. I don't understand how he surpasses Kobe and many others who were just better.
Ray Allen's opinion is very important because he even won a championship playing with Lebron. Actually, he made Lebron win one of his rings. And he doesn't even put him in the top 5.
Lebron plays in an era of no hand checking against defenses where it’s easier to score the basketball and not as physical. How do you lose 6 finals in such an era? MJ never lost a finals series. There’s no debate here, only upset fans that never saw MJ play.
Tbh Michael had a fenomenal team, LeBron carried the Cavaliers by himself to the finals which is incredible, plus he had to fight against the warriors probably the strongest team in those years
And the NBA allows LeBron to do what he wants know Defence can’t stop him because of this. But shows other superstars curry especially Kevin Durant Jayson Tatum and do in not the same respect as LeBron!! I have literally seen LeBron James grab somebody and pushed them out the way just so he can score and every game and the refs act like they don’t see it. and the NBA wants LeBron to pass Michael Jordan so they can start saying he is a goat prove me wrong it’s all facts.
Everyone knows the NBA put all their eggs in one basket (Micheal Jordan). MJ is shorter, smaller, weaker than LeBron. Hand checking rules, whilst they make scoring inside harder, on the opposite end of the spectrum they'd make playing defense hella easier. Who's more built to sustain physicality? Jordan? Or LeBron? Get real old schoolers.
WRONG!!!! Wilt Chamberlain is the best we’ve ever seen. He was a pure freak of nature that revolutionized the game. You think Joker is great, wilt who was bigger, stronger, faster, and far superior in terms of athleticism and IQ would dominate todays NBA with their soft rules and open floor.
People need to remember the massive difference in the three point game between then & now. Back then, the 3 wasn’t shot much at all. A team with good a 3 pt shooter may have taken 10-11 3s a game, total. Now individual players shoot almost that many on their own, and teams will jack up 30+ 3s a game. That’s 3 times as many as back then. Jordan only averaged about 0.5 threes per game for his career, and still has the highest ppg average in NBA history, PLUS the year he had the highest single season ppg average in NBA history (37.1) he only shot 0.7 threes per game. These guys literally jack up 7 times as many 3s as MJ did, and still can’t score on the level he did. That says a lot.
Yep, also says a lot about so called analytics being the better option to score too, it's not always the case, high percentage closer range shots have value, and when to shoot a three should depend on the flow of the game and situation.
This is such an idiotic take. Jordan had plenty of great teammates that shot the 3 well and won games for the Bulls with 3s!!! He wasn't one of them. No need to make excuses for him. Lots of guys shot the 3 well and were in the game specifically to shoot 3s. Including his own teammates who shot the 3 better than he did. Don't act like there wasn't a 3 point line when he played. He could have shot it better if he was a better shooter but he wasn't that good from 3, period. No excuses.
@@runegeezy Idk how u figured he wasn't good at 3s when he literally shot the 3 average %. Also he didn't have to shoot the 3 cause he was killing them with the mid range. Here let me help you out Bron about to pass Kareem right but in doing that its cause he shoots 3s cause of 2days game. Kareem scored that many only shooting 2s that should help. So excuses are only made when there is no facts ...fact is Jordan is just better than Lebron in alot of areas is all.
This debate ended in 2011 when Jason Terry outplayed Bron and beat the Bron Built Heat. Then in 2018 the Bron Built Cavs got swept in the Finals. Also in 2021 the Bron Built Lakers got bounced out the first round and Bron left the floor with almost 6 minutes left to "get treatment for his injuries." Not only has Bron come up small in big moments but he's proven to be a poor teammate if his team is losing. And all this while playing on teams he built!
You’re crazy. The way you’re talking about Lebron is just hating. Lebron choked in 2011, that’s obvious, but how does that end the debate if he’s proven himself to be one of the greatest finals performers of all time in his later finals series. In 2018, he did way more and made it way further then anyone could have in the history of the nba. If MJ was put in his situation, he wouldn’t of made the finals. Nor would Kobe, Kareem, Magic, anyone. You’re saying he put himself in thst situation, which is only partly true. A player can push for their teams roster, but has no say in the final decision. That’s for the Cavs GM. Lebron is by far the greatest player of this generation, and is a locked G.O.A.T. Candidate, with his all time place either being right behind Jordan, or just ahead. Put some respect on his name
@@vk7077 I'm not arguing Lebron isn't great. I'm just saying there is no GOAT argument when he's has poor performances like the ones I stated. And I'd argue his Finals record isn't even great. Yes he's been there 10 times, which is impressive BUT he's well below even .500. MJ was 6-0... tough to argue against that.
@@vk7077 And not for nothing but you said if MJ was put in his situation he might not have made the Finals? What situation? The one where Bron left to build a super team in Miami? Then when that lost its luster he left to join Kyrie and Kevin Love in Cleveland? Then when that lost it's luster he left for LA. Then when they got bounced out the playoffs he had them add AD. MJ didn't leave the Bulls or try to build super teams. Only one guy joined him and that was Rodman. And that was an aged Rodman. So I'm not sure which situation your referring too but MJ made the best of his. LeBron tried to manufacture teams to win titles. Yes he won but he also lost more often.
lmao plus lebron needs 2 stars to make the team play better. if he was making the team better like everybody thinks. then he shouldnt be needing 2 more stars to win
Don't leave out Manu Having one of the worst games of this life. Something he personally apologized to Tim Duncan for. And don't leave out Popovich. For following analytics instead of using his brain and having Tim Duncan in to rebound. Something he personally apologized to Tim Duncan for.
Seven scoring titles in a row before the second three peat.all this with the team that drafted him.despite the disfunction in the front office.despite no other stars until he himself developed scottie
Yeah I love the fact that he won a scoring title and defensive player of the year in the same season..😲..That means he was the best defensive and offensive player in the NBA in the same season..🤔🤔..Nuff said..🎤 DROP!!!
Bruh, not to mention he won DPOY while winning also the scoring title at 35 ppg. 35 PPG! averaged 3 steals that season! And before that he average 37 PPG!
MJ was so good that he transcended the sport itself. MJ was a high energy player who played above the rim, he simply moved beautifully and was a must see at all times. Lebron is good, but Jordan changed how ballers wore their gear and everybody went bald when MJ went bald. I can have on a Lakers game and although Lebron is playing I know he will not do something that is must see TV like Jordan did. Lebron's breakaway dunks are awesome and powerful, but Jordan enjoyed dunking over 3 players at the same time at the rim, it was awesome.
Lebron changed the game as far as players looking at teams as a business and not a family. He also made it a thing to team up with your rivals. I’d say Jordan and curry had an overall bigger effect on basketball
LEBRON JAMES LEGACY TRANSCENDS HIGHER THAN BASKETBALL HE IS A EXCELLENT BUSINESS MAN HE SUPPORTS HIS COMMUNITY AND HE WILL SPEAK OUT AGAINST INJUSTICE NOT WORRYING ABOUT HIS BOTTOM DOLLAR AND THE MAIN REASONS WHY SOME HATE HIM SO HE WANT SHUT UP AND DRIBBLE HES NOT A KNOWN GAMBLER HE IS STILL WITH WIFE AND CHILDREN'S AND HE STAYS OUT OF TROUBLE THIS BREAKS THE NORM THIS ALSO CAUSES HATERS TO HATE FOR LEBRON IS SETTING AN EXAMPLE FOR MANY TO FOLLOW IN HIS FOOT STEPS.
For all you clowns bringing up the fact that Lebron passed Jordan on all time scoring list, it took him 18 seasons to do it... Jordan only played for 15... In a comparison, everything that happened after that 15 season, is null... including that fake ass bubble championship.
Plus have you seen the league today? Dancing laughing and stupid as defense.. You mock people this much back in the days, you will kiss the floor and blood would spill. Soft defense, even cats could play offense.. wake me up when basketball is a contact sport.
You can't be in the GOAT debate if you can't even hit a damn freethrow in a clutch situation, and this is the BIG reason he's not the first option in clutch situations, as we've seen a gazillion times throughout his entire career. Furthermore, whenever things get tough on his team, he ALWAYS quits.
@@donkrider72caprice because he stat pads. If you looking for someone who just wants the WHOLE team to be better and involved go look at Butler. The narrative with Lebron is that even if he played poorly and soneone else clutched the game it was always him who did good but if his team loses there always, always has to be a scapegoat. Yes Westbrook I’m looking at your sorry ass
@@ljfacil Miami is gonna lose 4-1🤣🤣🤣like everyone else who has played Denver lmao!! MJ stat padded his first 8 years dude Bron needed AD to step up and he didn’t folks be hollering clutch when Bron hit more clutch shots than MJ and Kobe combined 🤣🤣🤣
Ray Allen has the most qualified opinion on the face of the earth on this subject. He was Lebron's teammate and played against Jordan (the only person to do both) and still says Jordan is the GOAT without hesitation. 'Nuff said. 🤫
@@Ronaldothegoat0728 Nooo... None of those players played against Jordan, so that makes no sense. Ray Allen played against Jordan in actual games, and was on LeBron's yeah later on. There is no one else that can make that claim.🤦
Ray was one of my all time favorite players.. He's obviously right about MJ being better than LJ by miles, but greatest.. By championships it's Russell.. Records it's Wilt.. MJ was certainly on the Mt. Rushmore tho..
The biggest difference between lebron and Jordan besides heart and killer instinct is Jordan showed up when it really counted for example No one hit as many game winners in the FINALS than Jordan or clutch freethows when they counted than Jordan and lebron is just not that reliable under real pressure and that doesn't show up in overall stats just like Heart and killer instinct don't show up in stats.
Agreed, but Jordan showed up all the time. He never took games off (unless injured, which wasn't much after his foot injury in the second or third year).
One thing I dont think a lot of people take into consideration. In the era the MJ played, it was a hard league, so physical. I am not saying that if Bron played in that era could not adapt, but we KNOW Jordan did. On the other-hand, just how much more inflated would MJs numbers be today where there is very little contact. The last bit I have.... if it was not for MJ doing what he did, I dont know if we would have seen Bron as a NBA player. He probably would be playing TE in the NFL.
If we put today's Lebron back in the days, he'd be called a buffed up wuss for his flops and whatnot. Likewise if we put prime Jordan into today's game, he'd be expected to shoot more 3s (and score less overall) and foul out from "excessive contacts". They just happened to play in different eras and played the way that worked best at that specific era. One thing MJ would trump LBJ though is on ruthlessness. MJ was a relentless killer. LBJ acts like he is one.
I agree with your premise, but this is literally talked about in every Jordan v Lebron debate. It's not something people don't "take into consideration."
@@clampsgaming439 Jordan knew when he can't pull it he knew when a teammate had the night.Thats why he assisted Pax and Kerr he always warned them to be ready. Unlike Lebron who takes the last shot for the spotlight,If it wasn't for the fact that Bosh rebounded and Allen scored the 3 his legacy would've be under big doubt at this moment.Just like KD's right now.
@@Wrestlingfan9391 bro your such a hypocrite 😂Lebron scored 16 in the 4th that game ! Fuck Ray Allen’s shot of Lebron didn’t score all those damn points that 3 wouldn’t have meant shit so enough with the “ Allen saved Lebron “ it’s a damn team sport stfu
Lebron would need the following just to TIE Jordan. 9 more scoring titles, 4 more all defensive first teams, 3 league steals leaders, 2 more finals MVPs, 1 more league MVP, a scoring title and DPOTY at the same time, 3 ppg higher scoring for career, a 37 ppg season (the highest season ppg average ever), an 82 game season with 34 ppg, 6 rebounds, 6 assists, 2 steals, and 1.5 blocks per game (league record), and 2 more titles. All that just to TIE Jordan. It’s obvious Lebron ain’t the GOAT. He’s top 5 for sure, but not the GOAT.
@@JohnDoe-zr8pc Well if you specify "modern era" then sure I guess but your original statement was "highest season ppg average ever", I'm not sure "modern era" even has an official definition though.
The reason that MJ’s three point percentages are so low was because 1. He didn’t shoot them that much because of his philosophy (which was he thought it took away from his game, which was to penetrate to score or get his teammates open) and 2. Which is probably the main reason, he usually shot threes when when the shot clock was going down and was forced to shoot a low percentage three. If MJ was looking for high percentage 3s his 3 point percentage would’ve been higher
Would’ve, could’ve, should’ve doesn’t matter it didn’t happen. And plus just because it’s his philosophy doesn’t change anything, it was his decision and no one else’s.
Thats because 3 point shooting wasn't the main focus back in Jordan's era like it is in today's game. If it was Jordan's 3 point percentage would definitely be higher.
@@kingchriistiian6757 yeah still Lebron can't be GOAT, imagine forming a team consisting of 4 of the 75 greatest player yet he was not able to qualify to the Play In.
@@zinjgreen3398 fair point. I will admit, it is embarrassing he didn’t at least make the play in. But I view it kind of differently. Sure they are in the top 75, but this season was terrible for them. Ad was injured most of the season and Russ is just dysfunctional. Which shouldn’t be put on Lebron.
In Jordan's prime, he won 25 out of 26 playoff series. 25-1. What does LeBron have on his resume that even compares to that? 8 straight Finals? Jordan only went to 6 in 8 seasons because he retired for almost 2 years playing baseball.
LeBron’s character flaws, manifesting on multiple occasions in a lack of competitive drive/fire, to me take him way out of consideration as greatest ever. However, he is definitely in the running as greatest self promoter ever
At multiple points during his career, whether it’s at the micro level of frequently not getting back on defense or otherwise phoning it in on that side of the ball, all the way to the macro level of seeking to build superteams and “getting more help“ to try to assure him an easier path to a ring, LeBron has displayed far more hunger for glory and adulation than actual competitive fire. I have also frequently seen him wilt under adversity and just plain give up: Exhibit A being LeBron’s tantrum/shutdown in Game 1 of the 2018 Finals after JR Smith’s mental blunder at the end of regulation. If you consider someone with that level of mental weakness a legit contender for greatest ever, that’s your lookout.
@@PabluchoViision their fan boy nothing more they will only see his good never his major flaws which takes him out the Goat conversation mofo just lazy and a cry baby
@@PabluchoViision Don't act like Jordan's Bulls wasn't a super team with players like Pippen, Rodman and Kukoc. They are all HOFers and 2 of them are also on Top 75 list. I am not discrediting MJs greatness because of that. Only Lebron's heat was a Super Team, 2016 Cavs and 2020 Lakers were as good as any average NBA team and nowhere close to a Super Team. Without Lebron, they were barely a playoff team and Bulls reached Conference Semis without MJ, that's how good they were on their own. And If you call a 50 point night a shutdown, then I don't even know what to say.
@@rohanbhaunt That still doesn’t change the fact that in 2018 the cavs came out of the “Leastern Conference.” It was a very weak conference.. It’s also the reason why Lebron made it to 8 straight Finals. Onto your analogy on why the bulls did well after Jordan left: #I- The bulls were built from the ground up. They didn’t trade all their draft picks to build an All-Star team around him. They actually kept most of their draft picks and drafted well. #2-They were coached by Phil Freaking Jackson. That #3- Jordan helped forge his teammates into what they became. Tough, competitive, high basketball IQ’s, unselfish and understanding their role within the team. Lebrons teams went down in flames after he left because they didn’t have jack for draft picks. He had them all traded for All stars. Thus, those former teams couldn’t build from the draft. #2- Lebrons playing style involves him having the ball in his hands most of the time. It also involves having shooters around him. It’s a decent team style of play but as soon as he leaves the team they have nothing but shooters who can’t create very well off the dribble. That’s when it becomes disastrous. #3~ His former teams never have a Phil Jackson to pick up what’s left of the pieces after Lebron definitively leaves. Look, this isn’t rocket science. It’s easy to see. I hate to break it to Lebron fans but Lebron should never even be considered for the GOAT conversation. He’s the ALL TIME leader in turnovers, has a weak jumpshot and is abysmal at the line. And don’t get me started on defense..
Just imagine for a single moment MJ in a press conference saying: "our team lacks shooting", "we ain't good enough"... And on the top of that one of his teammates smiling about that. You can't right?
@@josephdimascio9044 Lol. Isiah Thomas broke his hand punching big Lamb in the face during practice as well. I know its foreign to this softer young generation but that was 80s and 90s basketball.
@@wreckim Shaq had a massive ego (still does) and it was going to be one of them or the other. His work ethic wasn't great either. If Shaq even had 75% of Kobe's work ethic, they'd have been unstoppable.
The early years of Jordan that I watched unfold live was.... lit. He was doing things you just didn't see other players do. The excitement he was generating in regular season games was nothing like anything we have seen since.
Like his 63 point game in the Boston Garden in the postseason. It took a team with 5 HOF players to hold off MJ & it took them double OT to do it. That's when Larry Legend said it was God disguised as Michael Jordan.
MJ is the epitome of pure skill, IQ, footwork, finesse etc. Lebron dominates with his body. He is a better comparison to a player like Shaq who also dominated with physical strength. If LeBron didn't have that absolute beast of a frame I think he would have had a hard time even making it pro as his skillset is rough and not even close to those of the likes of Jordan,Kobe, Curry etc.
yo bro are u deadass rn? someone with basketaball iq as high as lebron would struggle to make it pro at 6'9? stop it. u think 1 on 1 moves are a skill set and dont recognize other skills in the game of basketball
Lebron has a higher IQ than all those guys you’ve mentioned. To say he only dominates with his body is a lie and a disrespect to Lebron. Jordan might be the GOAT but don’t lie about Lebron. Lebron is literally the best playmaker behind Magic, you could argue better, to ever play the game. Lebron is one of the most skilled players to ever play. He even shoots better from 3 than Jordan.
@@JasonLeigh3 He’s a better play maker and can run the offense better than MJ. He knows every single play that has been run. Even coaches fear Lebron because he knows all the their plays. Demar even said that Lebron against Toronto told one of the opposing players the play that the opposing team was supposed to run when he had forgotten the play. D wade calls him the smartest player to ever play. Draymond says it too. Ever watch the interview where Lebron explained almost 3 minutes of play in a basketball game right after the game? It was against the Celtics in 2018. MJ may be the GOAT but Bron is smarter.
I’m not disagreeing with your MJ statement but to say that LeBron doesn’t possess superior skills, IQ, and footwork is ludicrous. You don’t last 18 years and score 30,000 points, grab 10,000 rebounds and dish out 10,000 assists if you’re not skilled. The mere fact that LeBron is still playing at a high level at 37 years old and has never suffered a significant injury must also be taken into account. I personally believe MJ is the best player of all time but to suggest LeBron was only successful in the NBA because of his frame is just not true
It's simple. At 27 Jordan Swept the defending Champ Pistons to win 3 straight Championships. At 27 Lebron packed his suitcase, ran to the Heat Superteam, promised not 5 not 6 not 7 chips then won only 2, then got blasted in 2014 by a record margin. Whined at the presser afterward. Said regular people have sucky lives. Then he bolted to another Superteam in Cleveland. I could go on and on and on..
I think being seen as the GOAT isn't just based on stats and accolades. I think half of it is how many people you can inspire to watch you and play basketball themselves. For example, Kobe falls short when it comes to MVP counts, but everytime we watch him play we get excited and every part of the game is thrilling. That's just my take.
But it's a fair one too. Even I wanted to be like Mike and was the reason I even started playing in the first place, even though I wasn't a Chicago Bulls fan. That's true greatness.
Lebron is about to be the all time nba leading scorer of all time lol, and is 37 years old averaging 30 points a game still, championships don’t tell the full story. Bill Russell has 11 championships but nobody ever says he’s the greatest, especially not better than Jordan. If someone says Lebron isn’t the greatest of all time, then idk what metric their using. Because he’s passed Jordan in basically every category
I never seen MJ go to the line and miss 2 free-throws in crunch time, but have seen LeBron do it on at least 3 occasions (once against Dallas which cost them the series).
Lebron is number 2 in most game winning/tying shots in history of the nba just a couple shots short of kobe who is number 1. people saying lebron isn‘t clutch doesn‘t make sense to me, stay hatin tho he keeps proving y‘all wrong. It all started with the 2016 Finals when he won against all odds, never have i seen MJ „against all odds“
There was an artistry to MJ's game that has never been matched. I remember channel surfing and if the Bull's were playing I had to watch to see what MJ was going to do. His game was always must see TV.
There were a lot of people watching the NBA that quit watching after Jordan left. I hate to admit it, I was one of them. I realized I wasn't an NBA fan -- I was a Jordan fan -- as so many others were. Leflop will never have that impact on the game.
Same for me; I’m not a basketball fan but could not resist watching/respecting the game when Michael Jordan or Larry Bird were on the court. I would stop channel surfing EVERY time for these two players who were magical in their time’s or era’s in basketball!#Boston Celtics#ChicagoBulls#🏀🔥✨#🏀👑’s@ John Milligan
Nailed it - also keep in mind Lebron has been playing fresh out of High School. His stats are high because he shoots a lot - he also missing a lot - esp. at key moments in playoff positions
Use Ray's logic was a great 3 or ft shooter? No he was very good but to be considered great you should be at a minimum of 87% ft he had the mid range he was a very good to great defensive player. But not the greatest ball handler rebounder blocker or passer. Lbj wilt ai Kobe and others could score just as well as mj. So how he could he be goat when he isn't at or near top in all these statistical categories? See any flawed logic w that take?
@@kylonp7311 so chips right? Bill has 11 so he obviously is the goat followed by Halvicheck and Horry? I mean you wanna use the ultimate team accomplishment to decide the greatest player. Again mj is too good have to resort to such toxicity
@@showtime6667 but Russell never won finals mvp and horry never won no individual award or ever started so that was dumb to bring him up and nobody thinks that Halvicheck is the goat at anything so I dnt kno y u brought him up either seems like your desperate kid 😂😂😂😂😂
@@showtime6667 and if we’re talking about jordan and lebum then y in the hell are u bringing up bill Russell nobody thinks he’s the goat y come everytime someone brings up rings when comparing lebum and jordan u lebum fan girls bring up players from the 1950s to try to help your argument I never herd any jordan fans bring up no other players when it comes to the goat debate plz so y are quick to bring up bill Russell plz make it make since cause bill Russell is not going to save lebum kid so stop bringing him up the debate is between 6-0 vs 4-6 not who has the most rings ever 🤦🏾♂️🤦🏾♂️🤦🏾♂️😂😂😂😂😂
Jordan changed the entire league, players feared him and coaches couldn't figure him out! This went on through his career and how do you compare to two 3 peats, never choked in crunch time, DIDN'T RUN TO ANOTHER TEAM so now they want use stats now!
Mike made everybody in the league better because he was that guy you had to worry about. He didn’t blame his teammates, he just forced them to compete at a much higher level. Mike and the Pippen combo was a nightmare for teams and they only got better as they added key players to the Bulls. Mike did it consistently on one team against a more aggressive league at that time. Mike made sure you didn’t forget him and like now, he doesn’t have to say a word about being the goat because those that saw him play, well, we all know!!! My second runner up is Kobe because he mirrored Mike which in some ways made his skill set a lot harder to compete with. I like Lebron, always have always will but I saw Jordan play 😂 😂 😂
when will these comparisons between MJ and Lebron stop, in fact the debate should be between Kobe and MJ, it amazes me how quickly we forget how great Kobe was and by and away the closest to MJ in so many aspects of their game. Lebron has done amazing things in the game, nothing to be taken away from him but he is not a killer and he has been shut down several times so lets move on folks!!!!
but still kobe cant surpass MJ cos he is just a shadow of MJ, if kobe want to surpass MJ, he should firts surpass the big brother of MJ and even MJ say the he cant defeat his big brother in one on one, 😊😊😊
No disrespect to kobe but there's no debate that Jordan was better. Jordan was so better than the late great kobe that even though mj played 5 less seasons, he still recorded more field goals made, steals and blocks than kobe. And kobe was a phenomenal player.
He also during his time in the nba made more money for the league than any other player at one point it was estimated he made the league 1 billion dollars and the bulls organization felt the league owners needed to pay part of his salary
@@jugganuat6440 Made the 90s better, contrary to what LB fans say, who argue that "Jordan had weak competition" hahaha, those stupid - spolied - social media iphone tik tokers - millenial - woke - ultracoloured hairstyle and phosphorescent sneaker boys
Jordan has the EST over all other players. Lebron is great, Kobe was great, Pippen was great, Etc. but Jordan was the greatEST * I'm not sure if Jordan was one hundred percent human or not but he was definitely the greatEST
In the history of the NBA with all the amazing players only 1 has won a ring, a scoring title, MVP, FMVP and first team all defense in the same year ...MJ did it 4x That's why he is the GOAT
To be in the GOAT debate the player need to have the killer mentality! Jordan, Bird, Magic, Kareem, Kobe... they all have it. Lebron? No. Great player! Sure! GOAT debate? Only kids who never saw the 80's and 90's can even think that absurdity. They bring fear to the adversary, Lebron bring laughs.
After saying all that, all of those players were ether franchise players or apart of a dynasty. Makes sense why Lebron never been a franchise player nor was apart of a dynasty , he lacks what those 5 had, the goat makeup
Larry Legend said if I wanna have fun LeBron... If I want to win championships... Kobe... Hell that means he is not in the man's airspace. Only Kobe was close is what he is saying. Lol
You are Spot On! The reason Mike wasn't great at the 3, it was put in the game till 1979 in the NBA, College 1986, and Highschool 87, and the 1988 it was introduced into the Olympics. So Jordan didn't grow up practicing or shooting 3 point shots like every kid now does. Also, For a three-year period between 1994 and 1997, the league reduced its 3-point line distance from 23-feet and nine inches to 22-feet in an attempt to combat the decreased scoring. That is super challenging to change the line around. Pretty funny.
I'm a Knicks fan that lives in north Jersey and been to 100+ games and not counting wizards saw Jordan play at the garden 20-25 times and I can tell you he is the GOAT!! He made it effortless and destroyed my Mid 90s Knicks it was ridiculous!!
I’m with you on how effortlessly MJ scored at will against the best when he played in the NBA! MJ played my HS team in NC (1981) when he was a senior that year and he basically destroyed 😞 that team of players because he was that good at 17/18 years old!! LeBron James in my opinion has achieved greater success outside of basketball and for me that’s his lasting legacy!! I applaud/💕 that over anything a player has ever achieved on the basketball court/baseball/football/soccer field!! There are (3) other legends I’ll mention (Muhammad Ali, Bill Russell & Jim Brown) 🤔 Egotistical behavior will tarnish LeBrons’ NBA legacy if he’s not careful. He is a 1st ballot HoF’er once he retires. Just my observation and opinion. 💕🙏🏾☮️
@@willdockery1829 Jordan is a billionaire. Lebron just became a billionaire. Jordan’s shoe line and clothesline are far superior to Lebrons. Space Jam 1 was way better than Lebrons version of it. Jordan was far more marketable. Jordan definitely had more of an impact off the court than Lebron will ever have! I’m not sure how you came to your conclusion.🤷🏾♂️
@@richardjackson5670 - Thanks for agreeing with me on Michael Jordan’s athletic superiority when he played pro basketball!! When I spoke of LeBron James’s off court accomplishments I was referring to the charitable things he has done and continues to do especially, for disadvantaged youths in Akron, OH and other cities he’s played in as member of that city’s pro basketball team. My last sentence in the original post is, “Just my observation and opinion”. We shall agree to disagree on off court accolades with no acrimonious intent! 💕🙏🏾☮️
The Knicks had some hammers on that team too. Xavier McDaniel, Charles Oakley and Ewing. Very strong defensive team. Something todays NBA lacks. The space that players have to shoot in today's game is ridiculous. MJ is absolutely the GOAT. Miss those Knicks and Bulls games. They were battles I'll never forget.
Three points. Actually, I think Jordan knew what I know. That it is a fatal flaw to rely on Three pointers. They are only worth the attempt when you need them. It makes more sense to always go for the two, they are more reliable and they are easier to get. Also their mindsets were different. James was always playing as he was the team and was the only one that could score and didn't allow the rest of the team to ever have the ball. And he could only play one position very good. Jordan could play at any position and school the other player on it and then he was always assisting the team and evaluating if the shots were better if made them and when he couldn't and gave assist to the other player at the time.
I love the “bigger stronger faster” “argument” some guys use. It’s hilarious. If the players are now sooooo much bigger blah blah blah, AND the defensive rules were changed to promote more scoring, then WHY can’t anyone score on the level MJ did now?????????
Not so sure about the defense point. Zone defense was illegal. the rules for double teaming were way more constricted as far as how you could switch. if anything the RULES have changed to favor the D but I would say the OFFICIATING has gone the other way. the last few seasons (last year was a bit better), missing a shot was grounds for a foul. And to the other point, players ARE B.F.S. these days. This is true in nearly all sports (baseball might be the outlier due to the juice era but idk).
When Jordan came into the league, anyone with eyes could see that he was the BEST player on the court. As time progressed, he totally dominated the 90's and prevented other NBA Hall of Famers from getting a ring. Meanwhile, everyone, including roll players like Andre Iguodala, won Finals MVP against LeBron. Everybody got a ring on Lebron's watch. Not to mention that weak ass move he made by joining The Heat, D Wade's team, a guy that had already led his team to a title in 2006. Does anyone remember when LeBron hid in the corner against Boston in the playoffs. What about how Kobe soned him in the All-Star Game. And let's not forget the game he "fixed" by catching "cramps" in The Finals against The Spurs. And no one cares about that Mickey Mouse Championship. The league has never done more to help their "chosen one" win. Sad...LeBron is not even better than Kobe. Jordan is the GOAT...Period.
Absolutely.. Kobe is far better than LeBron . Kobe will play thru injuries while LeBron would sit out. And we afe just talking about the kobe.. What more if we compare lbj to the real goat Mj would simply shrug lbj contest
Bro this is the most nonsense I read in one comment. First of all, players ate on Jordan’s watch, do you want to just act like the 80s didn’t happen? Magic won on Jordan’s watch, Bird won on Jordan’s watch, Isaiah won on Jordan’s watch. Jordan only started winning championships when those great teams got old. And you want to brag about Jordan dominating the 90s? Who did Jordan really beat in those 6 finals? He beat an old sick Magic Johnson without Kareem, Clyde drexler, Charles Barkley, Gary Payton, and Karl Malone, which one of those players (outside of Magic Johnson) is better than Curry, KD and Tim Duncan? None of the players Jordan beat in the 90s are even top 20 players all time other than Magic. Essentially all of Lebrons losses came against top 10 or top 12 players all time. Would Jordan be 6-0 if he had to face the KD warriors or the San Antonio Spurs? Lebron is the goat!
@@jaydot4956 2011 ends all conversation for Labronda out played be a bench player ion the finals Jason Terry scored 2 points 4th quarter elimination game Jordan would have absolutely taken over scored 8 points game 4 you talk about Jordan beating old HOF your whiny flopping little baby could not even beat old Dirk Nowinski with Wade and bosh He can't shoot free throws his average beyond 3 ft 37 % Jordan 50% and pretty sure Charles Barkley MVP season losing to Jordan in the finals guess he was old to and those Pistons just won title year before and Bulls swept them speaking of Pistons if Labronda had to play the bad boys and knicks he would have quit basketball need a whambulance every game
A good point toward the end of this video is that the only* possible critique of Jordan’s game was his low-post defense against Centers and Power Forwards, but what most people don’t remember is the sequence against the Jazz - ALL MJ - that *set up* the iconic last shot over Brian Russell… Bulls trailing, needing a stop. Jordan comes over and steals the ball from Karl Malone, then dribbles the ball down the floor, runs down the clock, and just wins the game. Pretty much all by himself. He dunked on and blocked just about every big man in the League. So it wasn’t that he couldn’t* do it… it’s that he wasn’t asked to defend the big guys in the post all that often.
I have never seen another athlete with MJs athleticism its unmatched. He was only 6'5" as a pro basketball player. He jumped so high in a college game he it his head on the backboard. No one has ever been ae to fly but MJ.
I mean There are around 20-30 Football (soccer ) players I think could easily match MJ in terms of all round athlete (maybe more) , but if we are talking dominance in their sport MJ is like nothing I have seen. Go check CR7(comparable vert to MJ) or Ronaldinho in his prime, if you want to see what REAL footwork is (for the record MJ is the only Basket ball player I have seen get close to Football level footwork) Football players run 7-12 miles a game, 2x 45 minute halves only a half time break and many attackers reach sprint speeds at a pace that would earn 10.5/11 seconds 100 meter times,.......... in Studded boots on grass through out the game. I have 0 doubt the best athletes in the world are Footballers, in general, if we are talking all round (speed, strength,agility, skill,footwork etc, they are good in ALL these categories and that's just the average guys) Having said ALL this. MJ is genuinely a contender for greatest sportsman of all time in any sport, because, he was really that good, and he really was that level of Athlete I aint saying that about a single Hockey player, a single Baseball player or a single NFL player (although there maybe a couple NFL players that could be in the conversation that I may be unaware of because I have never really followed the sport that closely)
@@blackjesus2082 MJ could dunk from the free throw line he def is just as athletic as Lebron. Lebron is just huge on top of athletic ability. MJ was better competitor and overall athlete because of his drive and skill. MJ had a lot of skills in the tool bag. Lebron is more of a locomotive getting to the rim. Which gets the job done. But I def don’t think he’d be as successful in the 90s. A lot of big dudes.
@@alanduff1054 "if I had to chose a player to take a shot to win a game, I'd chose Michael Jordan. If I had to chose a player to take a shot to save my life, I'd chose Larry Bird." - Pat Riley
I don't know how much it would matter but the three point line was a foot or two farther back when Jordan played. I think it should be moved back to where it was then.
He wouldn't have one. He's not skilled enough for a 90s coach to let him play PG or shoot a lot of 3s. He have to play big and probably would have been more respected. If he tried to dribble mugsy bouges or Gary Payton taking the ball unless he post them up at the 3pt line like it's 1952.
@@JohnTaylor-bd1uy Yeah Wilt did that too and he was great at it, but it doesn't scale up to anywhere near how MJ revolutionized the game. NBA became more of a thing outside the US. He was the idol of every NBA player came after him. Can't really say that about Wilt tho.
During Bull's Dynasty Jordan & Pippen sat out many 4th Qts. Why? The game usually was over by the 3rd Qt. Meanwhile Lebron for yrs stayed in games that were losing causes, stat padding. 😂
@@Sley_5281 IDK but Jordans fade was unblockable and he was automatic from 20ft in. Not to say that was the cap to his range but him and kobe abused teams at the mid range, unlike any other player I've ever seen. I feel old now, but back in my day. lol. They was tryna put people on posters... I guess it would be wallpapers on a phone now. lol. They played for the dunk and settles for Jumpers
The biggest difference is hard to even capture in stats (although the 0/7 in big finals shots starts to) and that is mental toughness. Labron fades in and out mentally and sometimes quits completely, Jordan was laser focus all the time. The bad free throw shooting especially in big moments is part of that, but even more is that Labron has never had an effective go to move in crunch time. He usually resorts to a dumb low % step back. Finals Game 7 when the Cavs won and Kyrie carried him offensively to the largest win of his career is a perfect example.
Lebron owes that Cavs ring to Kyrie. Then there was the famous flop that got Draymon Green suspended which also led to that win. Fans also forget. Lebron was the only player who was actively seeking out other superstars in order to get a ring. Before Lebron no one did that. They wanted to compete against you.
@@rodneyc8126 Besides the ring he owes to Kyrie, he also owes another ring to Ray Allen in 2013 game 6 with 5.2 seconds left with perhaps the greatest clutch 3 pointer of all time which allowed the Heat to tie the Spurs and win it in overtime. Lebron missed the 3 pointer that would have tied it and was saved by Ray Allen's 3 pointer.
Lol 😆man bully his team plus most of them help him dude yall act like that bulls team wasn't good I bet that bull team could have beat this warriors team so he really didn't carry anything he just want the ball more either when he retired they still did better without him
@@Sway-hf8tl - You're DEFINITELY on Gaybron's list. You made the list for him breaking ya groin. Cuz YOU TALK LIKE YOU'RE UNDER 40. But then again..........WTF type of "Manly Role Models" - you got ???????????? Tekashi, Gaybron, Tom Holland don't count :)
@@Sway-hf8tl they did better without him?! The Bulls didnt even make the conference finals and struggled in 95 before Mike returned. Go look at the Bulls record when Mike returned in 95, he literally saved their season. In 98, Rodman and Pip needed Mike to lift them in the finals. Also, Mike had NBA accolades BEFORE Pip joined him.
I'm old enough to remember Jordan at his peak , Jordan was the most impressive athlete alive , he was practically bigger than the sport of basketball in terms of worldwide recognition. Shaq came in 2nd.
Dont forget about LBJ Turnovers. He leads the league for most turnovers. Ball Security puts you on Rushmore. Game on the line and wins put you on Rushmore! Being Clutch puts you on Rushmore. Nobody was better then MJ. Lechoke is maybe in the top ten at best!
Notice the common denominator in all GOAT discussions... Michael Jordan. No matter which player enters the discussion, one is always there. That speaks volumes...
People forget about that Mavs vs Heat NBA Finals meltdown that Lebron had. MJ never ever had a performance in the finals like that. The funniest joke that came outta that was, “I asked Lebron if he had change for a dollar and he said, sorry bro I only got 3 quarters.” 😂
We didn't forget the media is just ran by clutch sports so they won't even think about calling lebum epic fails out same way they fail to mention how he hand picks his team mates how he has played with dam near every all-star in their prime same way they ignore how he showed up in Miami bigger than Barry bonds he's the dam reason they started testing for hgh they fired George Karl because he called lebum out in the media for the juice foh
It’s Kobe easy argument. Take out the cheat CP3 trade Mamba would have had 7-8 rings. CP3 would have 2 rings and 2 final MVPs because the NBA be low key hating on Mamba
@@shellyjames947 lmao you see what CP3 doing at this age with Booker? Kobe was way better (clutch and defense and nastiness) add CP3 so Kobe can focus on scoring even more? Stop it 2 rings easily
longevity doesn't matter in this debate, all it does is open more opportunities for Lebron to showcase his greatness but other than that, it absolutely doesn't matter. I would say today's NBA benefits when it comes to game style, rules, strategies and medical advances that gives them a huge edge. What they do with the time and opportunities they are given is what matters. which there is no debating that Michael did it longer as he won 6, with less opportunities, more consistently and all the other shit is exactly that, A shit excuse to not get it done.
Stats aside, Jordan just looked and acted a certain way that Bron nor Kobe could ever match… Kobe came closest though
Now that is a accurate statement!
I was going to comment something similar to this. Whenever Jordan had the ball in his hands, magic was going to happen.
Kobe was right there with Mike. They’re both superior to Lebron in my opinion.
You are right. And Kobe acknowledges this and gives Jordan full credit for helping him with that.
The argument ends with this. Jordan had that killer instinct. He didn't just wanna beat you. He wanted to humiliate you. Beat you mentally and physically and leave a lasting impression in your psyche that would never leave. He wanted to kill you competively so you were defeated from that point going forward and he'd never have worry about you ever again!!! LeBitch is "buddies" with most dudes he plays against. Also 6 for 6 in finals never going to a game 7 and winning MVP in every finals. Also look how world famous Jordan and his brand became without social media and all the tools at LeBitch's disposal. Jordan first player turned owner turned BILLIONAIRE. also Jordan ain't wearing LeBitch's number, jersey, or shoes. LeBitch and every player after Jordan wanted to be Jordan wear 23 , and wear those Jordan's man.
I think majority of people voting for Lebron James as the GOAT really haven't seen MJ play throughout his career.
A bunch of 15 year olds that vote for lebron as the goat lmao,, I can tell you now lebron is not better than kobe, and kobe was the closest player to mj,, so on that note,, lebron will never be the goat
@@king-ghost1027 bron better than Kobe lmao 😂
@@ozzee5094 Naw Mamba. Remember all that talk when Kobe was this age and not winning in LA...blah blah...sure looks familiar. No way his soft mental ass would have hung up 5 out of 7 in LA. Hell the 1 has a BIG ASS * on it now.
Jordan has no beard... so he is not the Goat.
@@WelderWick so in that logic James harden is the goat?
Michael Jordan NEVER had to brag about himself being the GOAT; he let his skills on the court do the talking.
When Jordan was asked he said the Bulls, not himself. He realizes it was a team effort. He is humble and great.
@@tommytee7714 lol " he is humble"... try asking for an autograph like chamillionaire did.
Also oj mayo once said that Jordan told him " you might be the best high school player but I'm the best player in the world". Wilt chamberlain said that they asked Jordan "are you the greatest ever? And Jordan without hesitation said yes". Then of course the story of Jordan and wilt debating over who was the greatest between them 2.
Punching his teammates and telling them them "you're a loser and will always be a loser" is a real sign of someone who's "humble" right?
@@MikeHawk-yg3gkHe may have said stuff like that jokingly, but whenever he did lose earlier in his career he gave all the credit to his opponents and never threw his teammates under the bus or came out to the press scrim with a woman's scarf around his hand to save face that he once again choked on the big one at the big one.
Jordan was an all time great but he definately was not a humble guy. He used to brag all the time.
@@brandonroque2226 🤦♂️😒 you guys always have excuses for your lord and savior Michael Jordan. And only you guys would consider losing to a better team "choking". So I guess Jordan was choking against the Celtics and pistons in the 80s right? He choked when he scored 63.
For those of us who were alive to witness his greatness, know the truth. Felt the wake of his airness and couldn't resist becoming a fan. MJ and his teammates blew up the basketball scene worldwide.
every game jordan played was special... he was a genius
I'm 43 and I remember something you fan girls love to leave out how he got smoked in the first round without scottie, not saying James is better but he did more with less talent oh he got swept in the finals rather be the finals then first round Jordan, I watched the bulls build a super team around Jordan while I also watched teams build super teams to best LeBron just facts if you switch places LeBron gets the same amount of title if not more, caves wasn't interested in spending money they had James and felt he was enough but it's a team sport so he always came up short until he got some talent around him in Miami, bring up rings well russle has more so fail all stats people bring up there's always someone ahead of Jordan now LeBron being one of them
@@wickid-the-rogue "I watched the bulls build a super team around Jordan while I also watched teams build super teams to best LeBron ". You are absolutely delusional. Name one player that the Jordan era Bulls traded for or signed that it was a "Oh shit! Did you see who the Bulls got?? They got.......Darrell Walker? Dennis Hopson?" The best 2 players they signed during the Jordan era was Ron Harper, and an aging Dennis Rodman who had a lot of issues. Jerry Krause, GM of the Bulls, has even said that Jordan never came to him demanding they trade for or draft certain players.
Meanwhile, aside from the beginning in Cleveland, the rest of Lebron's career has been him going to teams either bringing loaded players with him, or went back to Cleveland who had 7 first round draft picks (4 of those in the top 5 picks) in the years prior to LBJ coming back. He was essentially the GM many years deciding who they'd trade away, who they'd get, etc. A month or so after winning the title in 2016, LBJ was already crying that their team needed better players if they were going to be a winner. For as much money that teams have spent to accommodate LBJ, the trade picks they traded to get players for LBJ, etc., it's an absolute embarrassment that he only has 4 titles. Pathetic.
youre a fool....without magic and bird rivalry there is not jordan
Better a fool than a loser
When your own teammate, on a year when your team won the championship, says your not the GOAT, that is significant. Ray Allen is an all-time record holder and NBA champ himself. He played against Jordan and played with James. Allen is definitely qualified to make that statement that MJ is better.
For as great of a basketball player as Ray Allen is and was, he is wrong. Ray Allen, fundamentally speaking, was a better basketball player than both Jordan and James. Better shooter, super athletic, excellent ball handler, and understood the game very well. He could create his own shot, shoot efficiently from anywhere, he had it all. He was Jesus Shuttlesworth. But surely he can understand, that as good as he was, he was no Lebron James. A physical specimen, freakishly gifted, etc. Ray Allen could do anything on the court Jordan could do. He can't do everything Lebron could. Surely Ray Allen, as intelligent as he is, can understand this. He doesn't mention any of it. Why? Does he not understand? Or is he being dishonest? I think too highly of Ray Allen's intellect to think he doesn't understand this. I think he's just being dishonest for some reason I have no information to explain.
@@runegeezy so name sum lebron can do tht Mj couldn’t
@@letmediecast very arguable I don’t think lebron is stronger than prime Jordan but clearly we was talking skill here backing down a big is not skill either u big enough to do it or not thts tht
@@runegeezyyou're right that it is a bit of a dishonest argument but that doesn't mean his conclusion is wrong. I have Jordan too because nobody ever looked better doing it.
MJ is the GOAT and Lebron is 2nd.
It's adorable people even think there is a debate 😂😂😂😂
I was going to give you a like, but you are at 23...
MJ all day everyday
there's been a debate for the longest time yall just love meat riding bron. Timmy has a case, Kareem has a case, Bill has a case. but yall chose bron to meat ride and slander. why?
exactly
yeap,plus Ray knows...He got game😏😏
Lebron: Down by 1 point with 4.2 secs left. Shoots two freethrows and missed both
Announcer: Are you kidding me?
😆😆😆
LeCHOKE lol
Rite- a player of his stature is supposed to make the free ones. Labron isn’t clutch ….he nuts up!
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
@@rrw5834"in the clutch" his actual shot percentage is like mid 20's.
Can you imagine Jordan, Magic, Kobe, or Bird doing that? 🤣🤣🤣
Michael Jordan literally changed basketball culture. GOAT!
@robertfoster5705 ...Jordan didn't change basketball culture. James didn't, either!
Lbj changed it as well, but for the worse! Taking games off, ruining the competitive nature of how teams are built. Kobe RIP told him to move the game forward but he did exactly the opposite!
For sure ✌🏾👊🏾
@@victorwong6976So so true 🤦🏾♂️ ( as painful as it is to admit ) but those Lebron Sexuals aren’t buying it 😮
Jordan was consistent. He never took a day off for low management. When he was on the court, he was coming at you from both sides, offense and defense. He was relentless!
It’s called professionalism and integrity! Just a different time and mindset! It was beautiful ball back then!
Jordan took years off. He retired 3 different times
Load
Bro pls. Jordan basically quit basketball and then had to come back. Lebron takes load management at the age of 38. Jordan was heaving up and down at that age. Show some respect
@@alvingeorge775 that boi bron played one full season Jordan on the other hand played nine not to mention at 40 years old mj played one full season so let that sink in brother
This really isnt even a debate if you saw them both play. MJ all day every day.
Big facts!
Leebron not even better then mamba
Based on what evidence? Because the evidence suggests otherwise. Factual statistics suggest otherwise. So how can you come to such an outcome? Do you now believe in facts? Does Lebron not own the most coveted record in sports? And still isn’t done. MJ retired because he had to. The myth of who he really was, was revealed to us 2 times in his career. Years 1-7, and years 14-15… it revealed that without Scotty and Phil… MJ was just a really good ball hog.
@@Jeffersonwazright “If” doesn’t matter. If Lebron had won every time he made it to the finals… he’d have 1 less ring than Bill Russell. IF!
JORDAN'S NIC-NAME IS AIR, LEBRON'S NIC-NAME IS "KING"!
I’ll end the simple debate. Any player known to “flop” is discredited in any goat conversations. James is well known to flop and even sit out games. Jordan never flopped or purposely “chose” to sit out games.
Yuup
Jordan would bitch and flop too. Check the tapes
Agree. That does discredit lecrybaby
Right on! as i said in another comment, imagine the horror of GOAT bball player not only flopping, and outright quitting regular season games because of not liking something.
Players used the frustration to heck win, not blow up and quit, somebody point me to a game where mj did not foul out, but outright sat out the whole game because he was upset?
the "flu game" or food poisoning he still rained it down.
@@timelord2745 for sure none of us would look at mj or Kobe the same if they did that. But he gets a pass for crying on the bench when they lost in the finals in 2014
To me, two words that come to mind, when thinking MJ, are 'flawless' and 'fearless'. His shooting, his dribbling, his layups and, yes, his defence were so refined, it was a joy to watch him - he was essentially poetry in motion. Then there was the fearlessness. He wouldn't back down not even when the Pistons were imposing the infamous 'Jordan rule'. These two aspects together elevate him to the status of the undeniable GOAT. LBJ has a long way to go before he can even aspire to that.
MJ all day
I rank James a top 15 player. I have him outside of the top 10.
@@p9r4ex8dykthat just means your delusional
Ray Allen played against near prime Jordan during the latter Bulls 3 peat and also saved LeBron's legacy. Better listen what he has to say.
People don't realize how good Jesus Shuttlesworth was
Lol saved his legacy for doing what he gets paid to do. Lebron saved his own legacy by putting him in that position to hit a shot clown
@@BIGJERSEY908 you sound ignorant as hell 😂
Prime Jordan at the end of his career? Make it make sense.
No he didn’t
Even a person who hates Jordan can’t deny watching Michael play basketball is like watching poetry in motion.
True, I hated MJ coz I was a big Pacers and Reggie Miller fan and he eliminated them in the ECF. But after he retired, it's like the NBA is not the same anymore.
@Allen G. I love how people say that yet I can find tons of minutes of some of the most pathetic defense possible. Good defense doesn’t take checking someone with your body, you’re supposed to play the ball.
Watching Lebron is even more of poetry in motion. One of the greatest passers of all time, one of the greatest scorers, one of the greatest defenders of all time LeBron doesn’t get enough credit for the defender he is can lock anyone up one except for KD, which no one can lock him up anyway, and can effectively shut down anyone on the court cuz of his overwhelming athleticism. And not to mention he’s been the head coach and the GM on every team he’s been on. Unquestionably the goat will take on any challenge. Jordan will not take on any challenge all he gone do is score and defend an unathletic garbage man of a shooting guard cuz that’s what the 90s was full of. Oh and if u wanna say rings is all that matters then why isn’t Bill Russell the goat? Lebron over Jordan🐐🐐🐐
@Allen G. Nah the league is full of skilled players on every team now the 80s and 90s had a few superstar players and only a few championship caliber teams. The league is stock full of superstar players now and a lot more can compete for championships nowadays. Jordan dominated the most untalented, unskilled era of basketball which was the 90s. None of his finals opponent were even as good as 2011 mavericks maybe for the exception the Jazz who had JEFF HORNACEK trying to guard MICHAEL JORDAN, Give me a break what a mismatch. Oh and the nice push off on Byron Russell to get that wide open mid range jumper can’t forget about that one.
@@CheapRubbers I couldn’t agree more. The nba is more tactical nowadays back then in the 90s they didn’t have players who would put u in a multi move torture chamber and then hit a step back right in ur face. The league is full of that now and Jordan and pippen and Gary Payton would get exhausted trying to guard that.
Watched both of them and I agreed with Ray. Jordan would kill my Knicks and I hated him😃😁.However you had to end up respecting him. The man was an assassin who would put a dagger in any team’s heart.Jordan was a killer, who played in a time when you drive to the basket, you get mauled. There is no comparison, Jordan all day long.
@Tonka Truck FAX....
@Tonka Truck 🔪😆🏀⛹🏽♂️
FUCKIN' AYE
had the same pain. Growing up being a Knicks fan, I hated MJ but he is the GOAT
@@georgekontogouris6618 I feel yo pain when he finally got through my Pistons with a sweeping gesture... but BIRD is GOAT.....
I saw both play ... MJ had the most amazing killer instinct I have ever seen
Wizards era MJ b4 injury was still giving that work
Jordan's Wizards days are really underated. Let's see how many times Leflop scores 50 after turning 40.
Finally someone said it. If you ask someone on the street who the best basketball player is, 9 times out of 10 they are NOT saying LeBron, he's very skilled but not MJ skilled. I just cant imagine putting LeBron over MJ in the GOAT debate, it's just never happening
Honestly, he's not skilled. A skilled player would be someone like Dream or Black Mamba. They had a bag of tricks. Lebron doesn't have a bag. Running opponents over or flopping isn't a skill. Lebron has a high basketball IQ. That's about it.
When did Bron pass Kobe? Cause Kobe was the closest thing to Jordan we fans ever saw. Kobe won 5 rings. He made 7 Finals. Look up how many all NBA defensive teams he made. 81 pts in a game, 62 pts in only 3 quarters. Mike the Kobe both got a 3 peat. No team has done it since Kobe/Shaq Lakers and Mike did it twice. Kobe keeps being moved up or for the most part pushed down these top 10 lists. Kinda wondering what he did from beyond the grave that made him a worse player 😂
@@rodneyc8126 Agreed. He has no go to move. He has no set of moves. He's never been a great shooter. His FG% outside of 8 feet is atrocious. He's just big and barrels into people. There are 20-25 players I can think of that are way more skilled than Lebron.
@@roboninja3194 Really annoying when the media puts him above Jordan. Have those idiots seen MJ play? That dude was a once in a lifetime player. Lebron is a good player but he ain't no where near 🐐 status. I don't understand how he surpasses Kobe and many others who were just better.
@@roboninja3194 🧢 🧢🧢🧢🧢
Ray Allen's opinion is very important because he even won a championship playing with Lebron. Actually, he made Lebron win one of his rings. And he doesn't even put him in the top 5.
Thank god he isn’t a lebron shill or jock sniffa
Anyone who lived to see both play know the answer, and that's all the debate you ever need to hear on the subject.
Jordan is the G.O.A.T. period,and he NEVER slouched on defense!
this soo much. #hustle
Yes exactly that's where the big difference is. He was literally the best defensive and offensive player for years
All fact!!!!!
Lequit on defense.
@@lolipopi503 🤣🤣🤣
This is only a debate for those who don't know the game.
MJ = 🐐
I watched the 80s and 90s Jordan coming up lebron doesn't compare Jordan is the goat 🐐
Facts😂😂
Lebron plays in an era of no hand checking against defenses where it’s easier to score the basketball and not as physical. How do you lose 6 finals in such an era? MJ never lost a finals series. There’s no debate here, only upset fans that never saw MJ play.
Tbh Michael had a fenomenal team, LeBron carried the Cavaliers by himself to the finals which is incredible, plus he had to fight against the warriors probably the strongest team in those years
@@_dani__ lebron jumpshiped and created superteams that still lost. Jordan had a great team but not superteams.
@@alfray1072 didn't jordan have two HOF is that not a super team
And the NBA allows LeBron to do what he wants know Defence can’t stop him because of this. But shows other superstars curry especially Kevin Durant Jayson Tatum and do in not the same respect as LeBron!! I have literally seen LeBron James grab somebody and pushed them out the way just so he can score and every game and the refs act like they don’t see it. and the NBA wants LeBron to pass Michael Jordan so they can start saying he is a goat prove me wrong it’s all facts.
Everyone knows the NBA put all their eggs in one basket (Micheal Jordan).
MJ is shorter, smaller, weaker than LeBron. Hand checking rules, whilst they make scoring inside harder, on the opposite end of the spectrum they'd make playing defense hella easier. Who's more built to sustain physicality? Jordan? Or LeBron?
Get real old schoolers.
MJ is one of the best athlete in my lifetime. I never witness anything like him. He is and always will be the GOAT of the NBA
WRONG!!!! Wilt Chamberlain is the best we’ve ever seen. He was a pure freak of nature that revolutionized the game. You think Joker is great, wilt who was bigger, stronger, faster, and far superior in terms of athleticism and IQ would dominate todays NBA with their soft rules and open floor.
@@JohnTaylor-bd1uy Bill Russell destroyed him in the playoffs. So...no to Wilt, who wilted in the post season.
People need to remember the massive difference in the three point game between then & now. Back then, the 3 wasn’t shot much at all. A team with good a 3 pt shooter may have taken 10-11 3s a game, total. Now individual players shoot almost that many on their own, and teams will jack up 30+ 3s a game. That’s 3 times as many as back then.
Jordan only averaged about 0.5 threes per game for his career, and still has the highest ppg average in NBA history, PLUS the year he had the highest single season ppg average in NBA history (37.1) he only shot 0.7 threes per game.
These guys literally jack up 7 times as many 3s as MJ did, and still can’t score on the level he did. That says a lot.
Yep, also says a lot about so called analytics being the better option to score too, it's not always the case, high percentage closer range shots have value, and when to shoot a three should depend on the flow of the game and situation.
💯
Without question, there are a lot more players that I consider to be more skilled than LeBron, But his IQ and ability to win is superior to all!
This is such an idiotic take. Jordan had plenty of great teammates that shot the 3 well and won games for the Bulls with 3s!!! He wasn't one of them. No need to make excuses for him. Lots of guys shot the 3 well and were in the game specifically to shoot 3s. Including his own teammates who shot the 3 better than he did. Don't act like there wasn't a 3 point line when he played. He could have shot it better if he was a better shooter but he wasn't that good from 3, period. No excuses.
@@runegeezy Idk how u figured he wasn't good at 3s when he literally shot the 3 average %. Also he didn't have to shoot the 3 cause he was killing them with the mid range. Here let me help you out Bron about to pass Kareem right but in doing that its cause he shoots 3s cause of 2days game. Kareem scored that many only shooting 2s that should help. So excuses are only made when there is no facts ...fact is Jordan is just better than Lebron in alot of areas is all.
This debate ended in 2011 when Jason Terry outplayed Bron and beat the Bron Built Heat. Then in 2018 the Bron Built Cavs got swept in the Finals. Also in 2021 the Bron Built Lakers got bounced out the first round and Bron left the floor with almost 6 minutes left to "get treatment for his injuries." Not only has Bron come up small in big moments but he's proven to be a poor teammate if his team is losing. And all this while playing on teams he built!
How could you forget not making the play in
@@karticid4124 Thank you for the assist!
You’re crazy. The way you’re talking about Lebron is just hating. Lebron choked in 2011, that’s obvious, but how does that end the debate if he’s proven himself to be one of the greatest finals performers of all time in his later finals series. In 2018, he did way more and made it way further then anyone could have in the history of the nba. If MJ was put in his situation, he wouldn’t of made the finals. Nor would Kobe, Kareem, Magic, anyone. You’re saying he put himself in thst situation, which is only partly true. A player can push for their teams roster, but has no say in the final decision. That’s for the Cavs GM.
Lebron is by far the greatest player of this generation, and is a locked G.O.A.T. Candidate, with his all time place either being right behind Jordan, or just ahead. Put some respect on his name
@@vk7077 I'm not arguing Lebron isn't great. I'm just saying there is no GOAT argument when he's has poor performances like the ones I stated. And I'd argue his Finals record isn't even great. Yes he's been there 10 times, which is impressive BUT he's well below even .500. MJ was 6-0... tough to argue against that.
@@vk7077 And not for nothing but you said if MJ was put in his situation he might not have made the Finals? What situation? The one where Bron left to build a super team in Miami? Then when that lost its luster he left to join Kyrie and Kevin Love in Cleveland? Then when that lost it's luster he left for LA. Then when they got bounced out the playoffs he had them add AD. MJ didn't leave the Bulls or try to build super teams. Only one guy joined him and that was Rodman. And that was an aged Rodman. So I'm not sure which situation your referring too but MJ made the best of his. LeBron tried to manufacture teams to win titles. Yes he won but he also lost more often.
You don't need 3s when you drop 50 points scoring 2s. Stop it
Also looks like Jordan is actually a better 3pt shooter anyways
lmao plus lebron needs 2 stars to make the team play better. if he was making the team better like everybody thinks. then he shouldnt be needing 2 more stars to win
@@fofiggitty people probably say that because lebron shoots from half court some times as well
@@demboyz4082 He only had one star and won 2 years ago, KLove also missed a game in 2016 and wasn't an all star that year.
@@benjaminan1183 lame alibi lmao i bet youd here me laughing at you😂😂😂😂
Allen is literally the reason why this debate exists in the 1st place
Skip would agree though no one likes to hear it 😂
And kawhi missing those 2 FTs just before
Not really. Just one man’s opinion
Don't leave out Manu Having one of the worst games of this life. Something he personally apologized to Tim Duncan for. And don't leave out Popovich. For following analytics instead of using his brain and having Tim Duncan in to rebound. Something he personally apologized to Tim Duncan for.
@@dannybachner899 just think Tim Duncan would also be 6-0 in nba finals
Seven scoring titles in a row before the second three peat.all this with the team that drafted him.despite the disfunction in the front office.despite no other stars until he himself developed scottie
That within itself is goat shit 💯
Yeah I love the fact that he won a scoring title and defensive player of the year in the same season..😲..That means he was the best defensive and offensive player in the NBA in the same season..🤔🤔..Nuff said..🎤 DROP!!!
Bruh, not to mention he won DPOY while winning also the scoring title at 35 ppg. 35 PPG! averaged 3 steals that season! And before that he average 37 PPG!
I like how you mentioned a commonly missed truth that Jordan Developed Scottie. People don't understand this
@@marklupica3296 won MVP that year too and I think all star game MVP
MJ was so good that he transcended the sport itself. MJ was a high energy player who played above the rim, he simply moved beautifully and was a must see at all times. Lebron is good, but Jordan changed how ballers wore their gear and everybody went bald when MJ went bald. I can have on a Lakers game and although Lebron is playing I know he will not do something that is must see TV like Jordan did. Lebron's breakaway dunks are awesome and powerful, but Jordan enjoyed dunking over 3 players at the same time at the rim, it was awesome.
Lebron changed the game as far as players looking at teams as a business and not a family. He also made it a thing to team up with your rivals. I’d say Jordan and curry had an overall bigger effect on basketball
LEBRON JAMES LEGACY TRANSCENDS HIGHER THAN BASKETBALL HE IS A EXCELLENT BUSINESS MAN HE SUPPORTS HIS COMMUNITY AND HE WILL SPEAK OUT AGAINST INJUSTICE NOT WORRYING ABOUT HIS BOTTOM DOLLAR AND THE MAIN REASONS WHY SOME HATE HIM SO HE WANT SHUT UP AND DRIBBLE HES NOT A KNOWN GAMBLER HE IS STILL WITH WIFE AND CHILDREN'S AND HE STAYS OUT OF TROUBLE THIS BREAKS THE NORM THIS ALSO CAUSES HATERS TO HATE FOR LEBRON IS SETTING AN EXAMPLE FOR MANY TO FOLLOW IN HIS FOOT STEPS.
@@smokenojoke8182 yup
@@smokenojoke8182 yup
@@smokenojoke8182 magic bird iverson all also have bigger impact on the game
I’m from Australia..and most Ozzie’s know MJ is the Goat of basketball 🏀 👍🏾
BIRD..
@@alanduff1054 Bird is my number 2.
@@iggyblitz8739 That'll DO I guess... :)
@@alanduff1054 bird😂 not even top ten
You watch TV . Space jam an be like Mike commercials.... best marketed.
Growing up watching Jordan play, there is no debate.
For all you clowns bringing up the fact that Lebron passed Jordan on all time scoring list, it took him 18 seasons to do it... Jordan only played for 15... In a comparison, everything that happened after that 15 season, is null... including that fake ass bubble championship.
Plus have you seen the league today? Dancing laughing and stupid as defense.. You mock people this much back in the days, you will kiss the floor and blood would spill.
Soft defense, even cats could play offense.. wake me up when basketball is a contact sport.
Not to mention Jordon missed almost a whole year with his broke leg
Yeah and it only toke Lebron an additional 240 games lmao
13 seasons* we not counting wizards days
Retirement and leg injury? 13 seasons practically
You can't be in the GOAT debate if you can't even hit a damn freethrow in a clutch situation, and this is the BIG reason he's not the first option in clutch situations, as we've seen a gazillion times throughout his entire career.
Furthermore, whenever things get tough on his team, he ALWAYS quits.
Leads the playoffs in turnovers More than anyone can't be the goat impossible
word
@@johnnyporter5605but leaded the playin points assist and rebounds 😂😂😂and minutes played y’all hilarious
@@donkrider72caprice because he stat pads. If you looking for someone who just wants the WHOLE team to be better and involved go look at Butler. The narrative with Lebron is that even if he played poorly and soneone else clutched the game it was always him who did good but if his team loses there always, always has to be a scapegoat. Yes Westbrook I’m looking at your sorry ass
@@ljfacil Miami is gonna lose 4-1🤣🤣🤣like everyone else who has played Denver lmao!! MJ stat padded his first 8 years dude Bron needed AD to step up and he didn’t folks be hollering clutch when Bron hit more clutch shots than MJ and Kobe combined 🤣🤣🤣
Ray Allen has the most qualified opinion on the face of the earth on this subject. He was Lebron's teammate and played against Jordan (the only person to do both) and still says Jordan is the GOAT without hesitation. 'Nuff said. 🤫
So when pippen said lebron was better that didn’t mean anything? Shut up clown
So does Chris Paul, DWade, and Carmelo Anthony.
@@Ronaldothegoat0728 Nooo... None of those players played against Jordan, so that makes no sense. Ray Allen played against Jordan in actual games, and was on LeBron's yeah later on. There is no one else that can make that claim.🤦
People are going to believe, what they want to.
I've been trying to get people to realize that for years...well said bro
Man, when you brought in the Coming to America barbershop scene, you got the Thumbs Up right away, I fell out laughing!
Also the league wasn’t soft on the players they actually played rough during the 90’s
I'll take Ray's words over any so- called,sports reporter guy played against both and he's right.
Me to
Ray was one of my all time favorite players.. He's obviously right about MJ being better than LJ by miles, but greatest.. By championships it's Russell.. Records it's Wilt.. MJ was certainly on the Mt. Rushmore tho..
Lebron had the best team for four years in Miami. He went 2-2. Lucky for Ray Allen or Lebron would’ve went 1-3. MJ is the goat.
The biggest difference between lebron and Jordan besides heart and killer instinct is Jordan showed up when it really counted for example No one hit as many game winners in the FINALS than Jordan or clutch freethows when they counted than Jordan and lebron is just not that reliable under real pressure and that doesn't show up in overall stats just like Heart and killer instinct don't show up in stats.
AMEN
Agreed, but Jordan showed up all the time. He never took games off (unless injured, which wasn't much after his foot injury in the second or third year).
Preach
One thing I dont think a lot of people take into consideration. In the era the MJ played, it was a hard league, so physical. I am not saying that if Bron played in that era could not adapt, but we KNOW Jordan did. On the other-hand, just how much more inflated would MJs numbers be today where there is very little contact. The last bit I have.... if it was not for MJ doing what he did, I dont know if we would have seen Bron as a NBA player. He probably would be playing TE in the NFL.
If we put today's Lebron back in the days, he'd be called a buffed up wuss for his flops and whatnot. Likewise if we put prime Jordan into today's game, he'd be expected to shoot more 3s (and score less overall) and foul out from "excessive contacts". They just happened to play in different eras and played the way that worked best at that specific era.
One thing MJ would trump LBJ though is on ruthlessness. MJ was a relentless killer. LBJ acts like he is one.
I agree with your premise, but this is literally talked about in every Jordan v Lebron debate. It's not something people don't "take into consideration."
Ray Allen have the right to talk about the GOAT debate.He saved Lebron's legacy in 2013.
Didn’t Paxton and Kerr save jordan ? 🤔
@@clampsgaming439 Jordan knew when he can't pull it he knew when a teammate had the night.Thats why he assisted Pax and Kerr he always warned them to be ready.
Unlike Lebron who takes the last shot for the spotlight,If it wasn't for the fact that Bosh rebounded and Allen scored the 3 his legacy would've be under big doubt at this moment.Just like KD's right now.
@@Wrestlingfan9391 bro your such a hypocrite 😂Lebron scored 16 in the 4th that game ! Fuck Ray Allen’s shot of Lebron didn’t score all those damn points that 3 wouldn’t have meant shit so enough with the “ Allen saved Lebron “ it’s a damn team sport stfu
Wat do u mean legacy lol, saved him losing a ring yes but legacy no. Even he lost he still a top 5 player of all time
@@eliasjohn9247 exactly my point
A literal HOF, who played against both [in prime] & was a teammate of one of them --- I'd say he's darn qualified to make this call.
Lebron would need the following just to TIE Jordan.
9 more scoring titles, 4 more all defensive first teams, 3 league steals leaders, 2 more finals MVPs, 1 more league MVP, a scoring title and DPOTY at the same time, 3 ppg higher scoring for career, a 37 ppg season (the highest season ppg average ever), an 82 game season with 34 ppg, 6 rebounds, 6 assists, 2 steals, and 1.5 blocks per game (league record), and 2 more titles.
All that just to TIE Jordan. It’s obvious Lebron ain’t the GOAT. He’s top 5 for sure, but not the GOAT.
Isn't the highest season PPG Wilt with 50?
@@DebasedAnon That wasn’t the NBA yet.
@@JohnDoe-zr8pc It was, NBA was founded in 1946 and Wilt played in the NBA not ABA.
@@DebasedAnon The stats for modern era are all after the merger in 1976, because of rules differences and such.
@@JohnDoe-zr8pc Well if you specify "modern era" then sure I guess but your original statement was "highest season ppg average ever", I'm not sure "modern era" even has an official definition though.
Ray Allen telling these clowns to stop repeating ESPN First Take BS
So true bro MJ was in a class all by himself The G.O.A.T
MJ GOAT...Now and Forever
The reason that MJ’s three point percentages are so low was because 1. He didn’t shoot them that much because of his philosophy (which was he thought it took away from his game, which was to penetrate to score or get his teammates open) and 2. Which is probably the main reason, he usually shot threes when when the shot clock was going down and was forced to shoot a low percentage three. If MJ was looking for high percentage 3s his 3 point percentage would’ve been higher
Would’ve, could’ve, should’ve doesn’t matter it didn’t happen. And plus just because it’s his philosophy doesn’t change anything, it was his decision and no one else’s.
BTW, he also steadily improved and became a pretty good (not great) 3 pt shooter mid career on. As teams went in that direction more.
Thats because 3 point shooting wasn't the main focus back in Jordan's era like it is in today's game. If it was Jordan's 3 point percentage would definitely be higher.
@@kingchriistiian6757 yeah still Lebron can't be GOAT, imagine forming a team consisting of 4 of the 75 greatest player yet he was not able to qualify to the Play In.
@@zinjgreen3398 fair point. I will admit, it is embarrassing he didn’t at least make the play in. But I view it kind of differently. Sure they are in the top 75, but this season was terrible for them. Ad was injured most of the season and Russ is just dysfunctional. Which shouldn’t be put on Lebron.
Jordan retired for a couple years to play baseball, then came back to tje nba and won 3 straight championships. Who the hell does that? GOAT
In Jordan's prime, he won 25 out of 26 playoff series. 25-1. What does LeBron have on his resume that even compares to that? 8 straight Finals? Jordan only went to 6 in 8 seasons because he retired for almost 2 years playing baseball.
LeBron’s character flaws, manifesting on multiple occasions in a lack of competitive drive/fire, to me take him way out of consideration as greatest ever. However, he is definitely in the running as greatest self promoter ever
You don't reach 8 Straight finals without competitive fire. Stop It.
At multiple points during his career, whether it’s at the micro level of frequently not getting back on defense or otherwise phoning it in on that side of the ball, all the way to the macro level of seeking to build superteams and “getting more help“ to try to assure him an easier path to a ring, LeBron has displayed far more hunger for glory and adulation than actual competitive fire. I have also frequently seen him wilt under adversity and just plain give up: Exhibit A being LeBron’s tantrum/shutdown in Game 1 of the 2018 Finals after JR Smith’s mental blunder at the end of regulation. If you consider someone with that level of mental weakness a legit contender for greatest ever, that’s your lookout.
@@PabluchoViision their fan boy nothing more they will only see his good never his major flaws which takes him out the Goat conversation mofo just lazy and a cry baby
@@PabluchoViision Don't act like Jordan's Bulls wasn't a super team with players like Pippen, Rodman and Kukoc. They are all HOFers and 2 of them are also on Top 75 list. I am not discrediting MJs greatness because of that. Only Lebron's heat was a Super Team, 2016 Cavs and 2020 Lakers were as good as any average NBA team and nowhere close to a Super Team. Without Lebron, they were barely a playoff team and Bulls reached Conference Semis without MJ, that's how good they were on their own. And If you call a 50 point night a shutdown, then I don't even know what to say.
@@rohanbhaunt That still doesn’t change the fact that in 2018 the cavs came out of the “Leastern Conference.” It was a very weak conference.. It’s also the reason why Lebron made it to 8 straight Finals.
Onto your analogy on why the bulls did well after Jordan left:
#I- The bulls were built from the ground up. They didn’t trade all their draft picks to build an All-Star team around him. They actually kept most of their draft picks and drafted well.
#2-They were coached by Phil Freaking Jackson. That
#3- Jordan helped forge his teammates into what they became. Tough, competitive, high basketball IQ’s, unselfish and understanding their role within the team.
Lebrons teams went down in flames after he left because they didn’t have jack for draft picks. He had them all traded for All stars. Thus, those former teams couldn’t build from the draft.
#2- Lebrons playing style involves him having the ball in his hands most of the time. It also involves having shooters around him. It’s a decent team style of play but as soon as he leaves the team they have nothing but shooters who can’t create very well off the dribble. That’s when it becomes disastrous.
#3~ His former teams never have a Phil Jackson to pick up what’s left of the pieces after Lebron definitively leaves.
Look, this isn’t rocket science. It’s easy to see. I hate to break it to Lebron fans but Lebron should never even be considered for the GOAT conversation. He’s the ALL TIME leader in turnovers, has a weak jumpshot and is abysmal at the line.
And don’t get me started on defense..
Just imagine for a single moment MJ in a press conference saying: "our team lacks shooting", "we ain't good enough"... And on the top of that one of his teammates smiling about that. You can't right?
Cause Jordan was blessed with the greatest teammates of all time and the greatest coach of all time
Jordan literally punched his teammate in the face. All his teammates said he was an asshole too. He wasn’t a better teammate lol
@@josephdimascio9044 yea but he made them better and work their asses out, not just politically speaking on the press
@@SmellyFartSoHard no he didn’t. They were already good
@@josephdimascio9044 Lol. Isiah Thomas broke his hand punching big Lamb in the face during practice as well. I know its foreign to this softer young generation but that was 80s and 90s basketball.
LET'S GET REAL. The debate should be between KOBE and MICHAEL.
Kobe was stupid to push out Shaq. Together they would have won 8 or more championships.
@@wreckimprobably but Kobe didn’t want to be known as the guy who only won champs because of shaq, he wanted to carve out a name for himself
@@wreckim Shaq had a massive ego (still does) and it was going to be one of them or the other. His work ethic wasn't great either. If Shaq even had 75% of Kobe's work ethic, they'd have been unstoppable.
The early years of Jordan that I watched unfold live was.... lit. He was doing things you just didn't see other players do. The excitement he was generating in regular season games was nothing like anything we have seen since.
Like his 63 point game in the Boston Garden in the postseason. It took a team with 5 HOF players to hold off MJ & it took them double OT to do it. That's when Larry Legend said it was God disguised as Michael Jordan.
MJ is the epitome of pure skill, IQ, footwork, finesse etc. Lebron dominates with his body. He is a better comparison to a player like Shaq who also dominated with physical strength. If LeBron didn't have that absolute beast of a frame I think he would have had a hard time even making it pro as his skillset is rough and not even close to those of the likes of Jordan,Kobe, Curry etc.
yo bro are u deadass rn? someone with basketaball iq as high as lebron would struggle to make it pro at 6'9? stop it. u think 1 on 1 moves are a skill set and dont recognize other skills in the game of basketball
Lebron has a higher IQ than all those guys you’ve mentioned. To say he only dominates with his body is a lie and a disrespect to Lebron. Jordan might be the GOAT but don’t lie about Lebron. Lebron is literally the best playmaker behind Magic, you could argue better, to ever play the game. Lebron is one of the most skilled players to ever play. He even shoots better from 3 than Jordan.
@@kevinobida8473 Okay I’ll bite, how does Bron have a higher IQ than MJ?
@@JasonLeigh3 He’s a better play maker and can run the offense better than MJ. He knows every single play that has been run. Even coaches fear Lebron because he knows all the their plays. Demar even said that Lebron against Toronto told one of the opposing players the play that the opposing team was supposed to run when he had forgotten the play. D wade calls him the smartest player to ever play. Draymond says it too. Ever watch the interview where Lebron explained almost 3 minutes of play in a basketball game right after the game? It was against the Celtics in 2018.
MJ may be the GOAT but Bron is smarter.
I’m not disagreeing with your MJ statement but to say that LeBron doesn’t possess superior skills, IQ, and footwork is ludicrous. You don’t last 18 years and score 30,000 points, grab 10,000 rebounds and dish out 10,000 assists if you’re not skilled. The mere fact that LeBron is still playing at a high level at 37 years old and has never suffered a significant injury must also be taken into account. I personally believe MJ is the best player of all time but to suggest LeBron was only successful in the NBA because of his frame is just not true
It's simple. At 27 Jordan Swept the defending Champ Pistons to win 3 straight Championships.
At 27 Lebron packed his suitcase, ran to the Heat Superteam, promised not 5 not 6 not 7 chips then won only 2, then got blasted in 2014 by a record margin. Whined at the presser afterward. Said regular people have sucky lives. Then he bolted to another Superteam in Cleveland.
I could go on and on and on..
I think being seen as the GOAT isn't just based on stats and accolades. I think half of it is how many people you can inspire to watch you and play basketball themselves. For example, Kobe falls short when it comes to MVP counts, but everytime we watch him play we get excited and every part of the game is thrilling.
That's just my take.
But it's a fair one too. Even I wanted to be like Mike and was the reason I even started playing in the first place, even though I wasn't a Chicago Bulls fan. That's true greatness.
I'm not a LeBron hater and, honestly, Jordan isn't my favorite player of all time but as far as comparing the two, LeBron isn't even close to Jordan.
Lebron is about to be the all time nba leading scorer of all time lol, and is 37 years old averaging 30 points a game still, championships don’t tell the full story. Bill Russell has 11 championships but nobody ever says he’s the greatest, especially not better than Jordan. If someone says Lebron isn’t the greatest of all time, then idk what metric their using. Because he’s passed Jordan in basically every category
I never seen MJ go to the line and miss 2 free-throws in crunch time, but have seen LeBron do it on at least 3 occasions (once against Dallas which cost them the series).
he choked that whole series out played by a bench player that finals alone takes him out this ridiculous conversation about the real goat
Holy shit those free throw clips were actually painful to watch 😂
Payback for what he did to Gilbert Arenas 😂😂😂
He purposely missed FT because he wants his points to stay at 45. When someone said 45 is not 23. He switched to Number 23 jersey and made 45 points.
Lebron is number 2 in most game winning/tying shots in history of the nba just a couple shots short of kobe who is number 1. people saying lebron isn‘t clutch doesn‘t make sense to me, stay hatin tho he keeps proving y‘all wrong. It all started with the 2016 Finals when he won against all odds, never have i seen MJ „against all odds“
There was an artistry to MJ's game that has never been matched. I remember channel surfing and if the Bull's were playing I had to watch to see what MJ was going to do. His game was always must see TV.
There were a lot of people watching the NBA that quit watching after Jordan left. I hate to admit it, I was one of them. I realized I wasn't an NBA fan -- I was a Jordan fan -- as so many others were. Leflop will never have that impact on the game.
Same for me; I’m not a basketball fan but could not resist watching/respecting the game when Michael Jordan or Larry Bird were on the court. I would stop channel surfing EVERY time for these two players who were magical in their time’s or era’s in basketball!#Boston Celtics#ChicagoBulls#🏀🔥✨#🏀👑’s@ John Milligan
Nailed it - also keep in mind Lebron has been playing fresh out of High School. His stats are high because he shoots a lot - he also missing a lot - esp. at key moments in playoff positions
We live in a world where people trash folks for telling the truth! Ray was 💯 correct and folks mad 😡 come on smh 🤦🏻♂️
Use Ray's logic was a great 3 or ft shooter? No he was very good but to be considered great you should be at a minimum of 87% ft he had the mid range he was a very good to great defensive player. But not the greatest ball handler rebounder blocker or passer. Lbj wilt ai Kobe and others could score just as well as mj. So how he could he be goat when he isn't at or near top in all these statistical categories? See any flawed logic w that take?
@@showtime6667 bro all u need to kno is jordan went 6-0 in the finals and lebum went 4-6 nuff said 😂😂😂😂
@@kylonp7311 so chips right? Bill has 11 so he obviously is the goat followed by Halvicheck and Horry? I mean you wanna use the ultimate team accomplishment to decide the greatest player. Again mj is too good have to resort to such toxicity
@@showtime6667 but Russell never won finals mvp and horry never won no individual award or ever started so that was dumb to bring him up and nobody thinks that Halvicheck is the goat at anything so I dnt kno y u brought him up either seems like your desperate kid 😂😂😂😂😂
@@showtime6667 and if we’re talking about jordan and lebum then y in the hell are u bringing up bill Russell nobody thinks he’s the goat y come everytime someone brings up rings when comparing lebum and jordan u lebum fan girls bring up players from the 1950s to try to help your argument I never herd any jordan fans bring up no other players when it comes to the goat debate plz so y are quick to bring up bill Russell plz make it make since cause bill Russell is not going to save lebum kid so stop bringing him up the debate is between 6-0 vs 4-6 not who has the most rings ever 🤦🏾♂️🤦🏾♂️🤦🏾♂️😂😂😂😂😂
Didn't have six threes, he had 6 for 6 in the 1st half, you must tell the whole story.
Jordan changed the entire league, players feared him and coaches couldn't figure him out! This went on through his career and how do you compare to two 3 peats, never choked in crunch time, DIDN'T RUN TO ANOTHER TEAM so now they want use stats now!
Yep.. and no one fears lebron but kendrick perkins.
@@alco1414 and the entire city of Toronto.
@LVS Don't forget about Pop...
@LVS I don't have stats in front of me but are you sure???
@LVS you right... I stand corrected....
The only people who think LaBron is better than Jordan are those who are too young to have seen Jordan.
Mike made everybody in the league better because he was that guy you had to worry about. He didn’t blame his teammates, he just forced them to compete at a much higher level. Mike and the Pippen combo was a nightmare for teams and they only got better as they added key players to the Bulls. Mike did it consistently on one team against a more aggressive league at that time. Mike made sure you didn’t forget him and like now, he doesn’t have to say a word about being the goat because those that saw him play, well, we all know!!! My second runner up is Kobe because he mirrored Mike which in some ways made his skill set a lot harder to compete with. I like Lebron, always have always will but I saw Jordan play 😂 😂 😂
W comment
@color toe can’t forget The Worm. Definitely a “major” key player added to the Bulls legacy 👍🏾
The "Decision" ended this pointless debate. Had he stayed in Cleveland the whole time and won 7 consecutive rings, he would be in this conversation.
No way in hell Cleveland wins anything, you just wanted him to stay there so you'd be able to call him a ring-less loser like Barkley.
So when teams trade players it's ok but when players trade teams it's bad? Smh
I agree that Decision was so stupid. Even if he only won 1 ring I would have him in my top 3 but changing teams, he was looking for the easy win.
@@danielhall1226 bro what😭💀
when will these comparisons between MJ and Lebron stop, in fact the debate should be between Kobe and MJ, it amazes me how quickly we forget how great Kobe was and by and away the closest to MJ in so many aspects of their game. Lebron has done amazing things in the game, nothing to be taken away from him but he is not a killer and he has been shut down several times so lets move on folks!!!!
but still kobe cant surpass MJ cos he is just a shadow of MJ, if kobe want to surpass MJ, he should firts surpass the big brother of MJ and even MJ say the he cant defeat his big brother in one on one, 😊😊😊
Kobe is a glorified volume shooter.
No disrespect to kobe but there's no debate that Jordan was better. Jordan was so better than the late great kobe that even though mj played 5 less seasons, he still recorded more field goals made, steals and blocks than kobe. And kobe was a phenomenal player.
FACTS!!!! Kobe > LeOverRated
@@johneric9930 Kobe is better than Bron tho. Period.
Jordan had no weaknesses in his game. The way the game was played in his era, any weak points he had, he removed. Say that about LeBron....I'll wait.
MJ not only made his teammates better but also rivals better. He is the best ever.
Jordan did not make teammates better 😂
He also during his time in the nba made more money for the league than any other player at one point it was estimated he made the league 1 billion dollars and the bulls organization felt the league owners needed to pay part of his salary
MJ made the entire league better
@@jugganuat6440 Made the 90s better, contrary to what LB fans say, who argue that "Jordan had weak competition" hahaha, those stupid - spolied - social media iphone tik tokers - millenial - woke - ultracoloured hairstyle and phosphorescent sneaker boys
how did he make his teammates better. who are you talking about. he was the ball hog, he wasn't a team player. please
Jordan has the EST over all other players. Lebron is great, Kobe was great, Pippen was great, Etc. but Jordan was the greatEST * I'm not sure if Jordan was one hundred percent human or not but he was definitely the greatEST
I've always been on the side of Jordan being the goat but this analysis was absolutely mind blowing. Nice job from a new sub!!!
In the history of the NBA with all the amazing players only 1 has won a ring, a scoring title, MVP, FMVP and first team all defense in the same year ...MJ did it 4x That's why he is the GOAT
To be in the GOAT debate the player need to have the killer mentality! Jordan, Bird, Magic, Kareem, Kobe... they all have it.
Lebron? No. Great player! Sure! GOAT debate? Only kids who never saw the 80's and 90's can even think that absurdity. They bring fear to the adversary, Lebron bring laughs.
After saying all that, all of those players were ether franchise players or apart of a dynasty. Makes sense why Lebron never been a franchise player nor was apart of a dynasty , he lacks what those 5 had, the goat makeup
*Those SAME kids ain't very masculine, just like Lebron and they listen to trash music like Migos and Young Thug* = SO WHAT DO YOU EXPECT ????
Larry Legend said if I wanna have fun LeBron... If I want to win championships... Kobe... Hell that means he is not in the man's airspace. Only Kobe was close is what he is saying. Lol
@@cobrakainevereverdies6940 panty waist bois all of them lbj included.
@@eddiejones8540 - It is coincidence that your name is Eddie Jones ?
You are Spot On!
The reason Mike wasn't great at the 3, it was put in the game till 1979 in the NBA, College 1986, and Highschool 87, and the 1988 it was introduced into the Olympics. So Jordan didn't grow up practicing or shooting 3 point shots like every kid now does. Also, For a three-year period between 1994 and 1997, the league reduced its 3-point line distance from 23-feet and nine inches to 22-feet in an attempt to combat the decreased scoring. That is super challenging to change the line around. Pretty funny.
I'm a Knicks fan that lives in north Jersey and been to 100+ games and not counting wizards saw Jordan play at the garden 20-25 times and I can tell you he is the GOAT!! He made it effortless and destroyed my Mid 90s Knicks it was ridiculous!!
I’m with you on how effortlessly MJ scored at will against the best when he played in the NBA!
MJ played my HS team in NC (1981) when he was a senior that year and he basically destroyed 😞 that team of players because he was that good at 17/18 years old!!
LeBron James in my opinion has achieved greater success outside of basketball and for me that’s his lasting legacy!!
I applaud/💕 that over anything a player has ever achieved on the basketball court/baseball/football/soccer field!! There are (3) other legends I’ll mention (Muhammad Ali, Bill Russell & Jim Brown) 🤔
Egotistical behavior will tarnish LeBrons’ NBA legacy if he’s not careful. He is a 1st ballot HoF’er once he retires.
Just my observation and opinion. 💕🙏🏾☮️
Knicks never had 2nd co star to help Ewing.
@@willdockery1829 Jordan is a billionaire. Lebron just became a billionaire. Jordan’s shoe line and clothesline are far superior to Lebrons. Space Jam 1 was way better than Lebrons version of it. Jordan was far more marketable. Jordan definitely had more of an impact off the court than Lebron will ever have! I’m not sure how you came to your conclusion.🤷🏾♂️
@@richardjackson5670 - Thanks for agreeing with me on Michael Jordan’s athletic superiority when he played pro basketball!!
When I spoke of LeBron James’s off court accomplishments I was referring to the charitable things he has done and continues to do especially, for disadvantaged youths in Akron, OH and other cities he’s played in as member of that city’s pro basketball team.
My last sentence in the original post is, “Just my observation and opinion”. We shall agree to disagree on off court accolades with no acrimonious intent! 💕🙏🏾☮️
The Knicks had some hammers on that team too. Xavier McDaniel, Charles Oakley and Ewing. Very strong defensive team. Something todays NBA lacks. The space that players have to shoot in today's game is ridiculous. MJ is absolutely the GOAT. Miss those Knicks and Bulls games. They were battles I'll never forget.
Three points. Actually, I think Jordan knew what I know. That it is a fatal flaw to rely on Three pointers. They are only worth the attempt when you need them. It makes more sense to always go for the two, they are more reliable and they are easier to get. Also their mindsets were different. James was always playing as he was the team and was the only one that could score and didn't allow the rest of the team to ever have the ball. And he could only play one position very good. Jordan could play at any position and school the other player on it and then he was always assisting the team and evaluating if the shots were better if made them and when he couldn't and gave assist to the other player at the time.
I love the “bigger stronger faster” “argument” some guys use. It’s hilarious. If the players are now sooooo much bigger blah blah blah, AND the defensive rules were changed to promote more scoring, then WHY can’t anyone score on the level MJ did now?????????
Not so sure about the defense point. Zone defense was illegal. the rules for double teaming were way more constricted as far as how you could switch. if anything the RULES have changed to favor the D but I would say the OFFICIATING has gone the other way. the last few seasons (last year was a bit better), missing a shot was grounds for a foul. And to the other point, players ARE B.F.S. these days. This is true in nearly all sports (baseball might be the outlier due to the juice era but idk).
Great comment!
@@davidrafferty2491Rules changed to favor defense?
What are you smoking?
See what happens when someone actually breaks down the analytics and stats and prove LeBron is not greater then mj
Continuing to debate MJ vs LBJ is like debating there are more than 2 genders. There is no debate. MJ is the GOAT. Period.
When Jordan came into the league, anyone with eyes could see that he was the BEST player on the court. As time progressed, he totally dominated the 90's and prevented other NBA Hall of Famers from getting a ring. Meanwhile, everyone, including roll players like Andre Iguodala, won Finals MVP against LeBron. Everybody got a ring on Lebron's watch. Not to mention that weak ass move he made by joining The Heat, D Wade's team, a guy that had already led his team to a title in 2006. Does anyone remember when LeBron hid in the corner against Boston in the playoffs. What about how Kobe soned him in the All-Star Game. And let's not forget the game he "fixed" by catching "cramps" in The Finals against The Spurs. And no one cares about that Mickey Mouse Championship. The league has never done more to help their "chosen one" win. Sad...LeBron is not even better than Kobe. Jordan is the GOAT...Period.
Perfectly said.
And I hate how all the media just trashes Kobe, which he was a better player than LeQueen Balco James.
Absolutely.. Kobe is far better than LeBron . Kobe will play thru injuries while LeBron would sit out. And we afe just talking about the kobe.. What more if we compare lbj to the real goat Mj would simply shrug lbj contest
Bro this is the most nonsense I read in one comment. First of all, players ate on Jordan’s watch, do you want to just act like the 80s didn’t happen? Magic won on Jordan’s watch, Bird won on Jordan’s watch, Isaiah won on Jordan’s watch. Jordan only started winning championships when those great teams got old. And you want to brag about Jordan dominating the 90s? Who did Jordan really beat in those 6 finals? He beat an old sick Magic Johnson without Kareem, Clyde drexler, Charles Barkley, Gary Payton, and Karl Malone, which one of those players (outside of Magic Johnson) is better than Curry, KD and Tim Duncan? None of the players Jordan beat in the 90s are even top 20 players all time other than Magic. Essentially all of Lebrons losses came against top 10 or top 12 players all time. Would Jordan be 6-0 if he had to face the KD warriors or the San Antonio Spurs? Lebron is the goat!
I remember watching all those disappointed moments with Lebron it was like he was scared to take the last shot
@@jaydot4956 2011 ends all conversation for Labronda out played be a bench player ion the finals Jason Terry scored 2 points 4th quarter elimination game Jordan would have absolutely taken over scored 8 points game 4 you talk about Jordan beating old HOF your whiny flopping little baby could not even beat old Dirk Nowinski with Wade and bosh He can't shoot free throws his average beyond 3 ft 37 % Jordan 50% and pretty sure Charles Barkley MVP season losing to Jordan in the finals guess he was old to and those Pistons just won title year before and Bulls swept them speaking of Pistons if Labronda had to play the bad boys and knicks he would have quit basketball need a whambulance every game
A good point toward the end of this video is that the only* possible critique of Jordan’s game was his low-post defense against Centers and Power Forwards, but what most people don’t remember is the sequence against the Jazz - ALL MJ - that *set up* the iconic last shot over Brian Russell… Bulls trailing, needing a stop. Jordan comes over and steals the ball from Karl Malone, then dribbles the ball down the floor, runs down the clock, and just wins the game. Pretty much all by himself.
He dunked on and blocked just about every big man in the League. So it wasn’t that he couldn’t* do it… it’s that he wasn’t asked to defend the big guys in the post all that often.
I have never seen another athlete with MJs athleticism its unmatched. He was only 6'5" as a pro basketball player. He jumped so high in a college game he it his head on the backboard. No one has ever been ae to fly but MJ.
I mean There are around 20-30 Football (soccer ) players I think could easily match MJ in terms of all round athlete (maybe more) , but if we are talking dominance in their sport MJ is like nothing I have seen.
Go check CR7(comparable vert to MJ) or Ronaldinho in his prime, if you want to see what REAL footwork is (for the record MJ is the only Basket ball player I have seen get close to Football level footwork)
Football players run 7-12 miles a game, 2x 45 minute halves only a half time break and many attackers reach sprint speeds at a pace that would earn 10.5/11 seconds 100 meter times,.......... in Studded boots on grass through out the game.
I have 0 doubt the best athletes in the world are Footballers, in general, if we are talking all round (speed, strength,agility, skill,footwork etc, they are good in ALL these categories and that's just the average guys)
Having said ALL this. MJ is genuinely a contender for greatest sportsman of all time in any sport, because, he was really that good, and he really was that level of Athlete
I aint saying that about a single Hockey player, a single Baseball player or a single NFL player (although there maybe a couple NFL players that could be in the conversation that I may be unaware of because I have never really followed the sport that closely)
He definitely wasn’t as athletic as the king
@@jacksmith4460 but he got dominated by bird the Celtics and the pistons
@@blackjesus2082 MJ could dunk from the free throw line he def is just as athletic as Lebron. Lebron is just huge on top of athletic ability. MJ was better competitor and overall athlete because of his drive and skill. MJ had a lot of skills in the tool bag. Lebron is more of a locomotive getting to the rim. Which gets the job done. But I def don’t think he’d be as successful in the 90s. A lot of big dudes.
@@blackjesus2082 he could jump over lebron
MJ was and still is in a class by himself. The real #23!
he aint holding nothing not one record he by his self at the bottom
LeBron, not even close... There was no one as clutch like M.J
at ALL...
you dan know
hmmm. maybe Larry Legend.
@@spaltersar DEFINITELY Bird...
@@alanduff1054 "if I had to chose a player to take a shot to win a game, I'd chose Michael Jordan. If I had to chose a player to take a shot to save my life, I'd chose Larry Bird." - Pat Riley
Shooting 3s just wasn't a thing in the 80s/90s, so I don't really ever hold that against Jordan. Imagine Lebron's 3 pt game in the 90s?
I don't know how much it would matter but the three point line was a foot or two farther back when Jordan played. I think it should be moved back to where it was then.
He wouldn't have one.
He's not skilled enough for a 90s coach to let him play PG or shoot a lot of 3s.
He have to play big and probably would have been more respected.
If he tried to dribble mugsy bouges or Gary Payton taking the ball unless he post them up at the 3pt line like it's 1952.
Jordan is the GOAT, not only that he helped raise the game of his team
Ugh, nah niggah, Wilt revolutionized the game, not Jordan. Ever see Wilts insane signature fadeaway?
@@JohnTaylor-bd1uy Yeah Wilt did that too and he was great at it, but it doesn't scale up to anywhere near how MJ revolutionized the game. NBA became more of a thing outside the US. He was the idol of every NBA player came after him. Can't really say that about Wilt tho.
During Bull's Dynasty Jordan & Pippen sat out many 4th Qts. Why? The game usually was over by the 3rd Qt. Meanwhile Lebron for yrs stayed in games that were losing causes, stat padding. 😂
Making layups and mid ranges is more talent than 3s in my opinion. 3s weren’t a thing in the 80s and 90s like it is now
Facts
adapting is a thing you know? players in the 80s and 90s were fairly new to the 3 pts thats why they were not comfortable taking those shots
@@ShoShieeeee 3>2. Why take a long 2pt that’s literally 2 inches in front of the 3pt mark. Doesn’t make any sense. 💀
@@Sley_5281 IDK but Jordans fade was unblockable and he was automatic from 20ft in. Not to say that was the cap to his range but him and kobe abused teams at the mid range, unlike any other player I've ever seen. I feel old now, but back in my day. lol. They was tryna put people on posters... I guess it would be wallpapers on a phone now. lol. They played for the dunk and settles for Jumpers
@@cobracyxx8808 wilt had the best fadeaway 60% of his points came off of it
LeBron leads the NBA in lots of categories: 1) Most turnovers of any player in NBA history, 4788 (and counting), 2) Most NBA Finals games lost, 33.
If not for Allen and Irving he's 2-8 in the finals.
@@dre2405 and without pippen jordan is 0-6 in the finals
@@michaelmorris6090 and without wade,Davis, Bosh, Allen,love, Irving lebron 0-10
He'd still be ur goat tho right 😂
That's y Ray is my dawg. No cap in his words🙏🙏🙏🙏
Ray Allen was a phenom. Loved his game. And Lebron can't stop traveling or flopping.
Or faking foot 🦶 injury
The biggest difference is hard to even capture in stats (although the 0/7 in big finals shots starts to) and that is mental toughness. Labron fades in and out mentally and sometimes quits completely, Jordan was laser focus all the time. The bad free throw shooting especially in big moments is part of that, but even more is that Labron has never had an effective go to move in crunch time. He usually resorts to a dumb low % step back. Finals Game 7 when the Cavs won and Kyrie carried him offensively to the largest win of his career is a perfect example.
Exactly, most people forget Kyrie saved his ass in the 2016 Finals against the Warriors
@Sean Milan yeah Kyrie was clearly the better offensive player and made the big shots for the Caves championship, and so did Wade in Miami.
@@freedomfight1933 Hell yeah!
Lebron owes that Cavs ring to Kyrie. Then there was the famous flop that got Draymon Green suspended which also led to that win. Fans also forget. Lebron was the only player who was actively seeking out other superstars in order to get a ring. Before Lebron no one did that. They wanted to compete against you.
@@rodneyc8126 Besides the ring he owes to Kyrie, he also owes another ring to Ray Allen in 2013 game 6 with 5.2 seconds left with perhaps the greatest clutch 3 pointer of all time which allowed the Heat to tie the Spurs and win it in overtime. Lebron missed the 3 pointer that would have tied it and was saved by Ray Allen's 3 pointer.
*Jordan puts the team on his back. HE DOESN'T CRY ABOUT TINY FOULS OR NO A/C IN THE BUILDING*
Lol 😆man bully his team plus most of them help him dude yall act like that bulls team wasn't good I bet that bull team could have beat this warriors team so he really didn't carry anything he just want the ball more either when he retired they still did better without him
@@Sway-hf8tl - You're DEFINITELY on Gaybron's list. You made the list for him breaking ya groin. Cuz YOU TALK LIKE YOU'RE UNDER 40. But then again..........WTF type of "Manly Role Models" - you got ????????????
Tekashi, Gaybron, Tom Holland don't count :)
@@Sway-hf8tl they did better without him?! The Bulls didnt even make the conference finals and struggled in 95 before Mike returned. Go look at the Bulls record when Mike returned in 95, he literally saved their season. In 98, Rodman and Pip needed Mike to lift them in the finals. Also, Mike had NBA accolades BEFORE Pip joined him.
Every time he played the pistons that's all he did was cry. He brought the cry baby era in
@@gew2027 The Pistons couldn't stop him unless they beat him up. That's because no player in Detroit was better than Mike.
I'm old enough to remember Jordan at his peak , Jordan was the most impressive athlete alive , he was practically bigger than the sport of basketball in terms of worldwide recognition. Shaq came in 2nd.
Michael Phelps, Sachin Tendulkar, Tiger Woods, Jonah Lomu, Michael Schumacher etc.
MJ belongs amongst those names. Lebron doesn't.
Dont forget about LBJ Turnovers. He leads the league for most turnovers. Ball Security puts you on Rushmore. Game on the line and wins put you on Rushmore! Being Clutch puts you on Rushmore. Nobody was better then MJ. Lechoke is maybe in the top ten at best!
Notice the common denominator in all GOAT discussions... Michael Jordan. No matter which player enters the discussion, one is always there. That speaks volumes...
Exactly. That’s what I said no matter what combination of players you want to enter in the discussion, Michael Jordan is always there.😂😂😂💯
People forget about that Mavs vs Heat NBA Finals meltdown that Lebron had. MJ never ever had a performance in the finals like that. The funniest joke that came outta that was, “I asked Lebron if he had change for a dollar and he said, sorry bro I only got 3 quarters.” 😂
Bro shot 9 for 41 in a playoff game. Everybody has bad playoff games.
We didn't forget the media is just ran by clutch sports so they won't even think about calling lebum epic fails out same way they fail to mention how he hand picks his team mates how he has played with dam near every all-star in their prime same way they ignore how he showed up in Miami bigger than Barry bonds he's the dam reason they started testing for hgh they fired George Karl because he called lebum out in the media for the juice foh
@@MONEYAFFILIATEDPROD bad playoff games? Sure. Bad Playoff series? Nah man.
It’s Kobe easy argument. Take out the cheat CP3 trade Mamba would have had 7-8 rings. CP3 would have 2 rings and 2 final MVPs because the NBA be low key hating on Mamba
He wouldn’t lol
@@shellyjames947 lmao you see what CP3 doing at this age with Booker? Kobe was way better (clutch and defense and nastiness) add CP3 so Kobe can focus on scoring even more? Stop it 2 rings easily
All time shit take
lies
Kobe barely top 10 all time. If Curry gets one more ring and finals MVP he’ll probably put Kobe out the top 10
longevity doesn't matter in this debate, all it does is open more opportunities for Lebron to showcase his greatness but other than that, it absolutely doesn't matter. I would say today's NBA benefits when it comes to game style, rules, strategies and medical advances that gives them a huge edge. What they do with the time and opportunities they are given is what matters. which there is no debating that Michael did it longer as he won 6, with less opportunities, more consistently and all the other shit is exactly that, A shit excuse to not get it done.
In my humble opinion, they are both great. M.J. Passed the torch to Kobe, and Kobe passed the torch to L.J. They played in different eras.