I'm pretty sure this is why no one actually encountered it before. The fact that it exists at all though is concerning, but the fact he leads 2 easy to KO Pichu means that unless you're actively trying to end up in this situation, you can usually get out of it, since you had to beat Greevil to get here.
@@SaltedNeos True, though it's still dumb that they didn't have an option to break free of this soft lock in case someone did something like release their strongest mons.
@@thanib7796 The other side of this is, that this is XD, so unless you have purified all your Shadow Pokemon and didn't catch Greevil's Shadows, you're also likely to have Pokemon you can't release.
Well, to be fair, a team that is capable of beating Greevil, having legendary birds and several very bulky pokemon, it's basically impossible to have a team that is not capable of taking on a team of Pikachu's evolution line. Since there is a PC and the Purification Chamber, you have access to all caught shadows and theoretically their purified forms, so there should be something to beat him.
You can say this about pretty much every softlock in this series, that doesn't justify them existing. Its nearly impossible to play a Pokemon game and unintentionally end up softlocked. Even the "easy" ones you still need to do a lot of specific shit to end up in. Just because this fight is easy, that doesn't mean that losing it infinitely should completely lock you in the Pokemon HQ Lab, just like you shouldn't be able to completely lock your save file in Cinnabar Island in gen 1, or trade away the only Pokemon you have with surf to an NPC.
Would love to see the Colosseum video! Had no idea about the game giving you a pokeball if you threw away the 5 you were given, that's really cool! Love the Orre games
I find it utterly baffling that they even allow you to release Pokemon in these games. If my understanding is correct (I just finished my first playthrough of Colosseum and haven't played XD yet), these games both have a *finite* amount of Pokemon in them, which means you can *never* run out of storage space for them. Not only can you never run out of space, but even with trading, you can never exceed the max amount of Pokemon the game gives you. So what is the benefit of releasing a Pokemon? If you ever release a Pokemon, you are permanently reducing the number of Pokemon your save file can hold. Hell, there are probably a lot of random softlocks you can run into just by releasing all your Pokemon except one.
Shedinja still exists and can be evolved in Colosseum to increase the amount of Pokemon on the save file, meanwhile XD has wild Pokemon, the option still needs to exist.
Genius sonority are regarded as some godly studio for some reason but all they did was porting an already existing game system into two weirdly developed and very short jrpgs, theres like zero thinking in at least revamping some aspects of the pokemon gameplay that become limitations when translated to their games. Also all the pokemon models and animations are of Creatures inc authorship btw
@@sebman6031You forgot the part that their most recent Pokemon projects were Pokemon Shuffle and Pokemon Cafe Mix. I don't actually have a negative opinion toward Shuffle, but its hard to argue that either of those games are legendary/godly.
I actually hit this snag in pokemon XG! The developer also didn't know about it and made this Eagun fight into a mini-boss. I got caught totally off-guard, as I barely beat Greevil while counter-teaming specifically for him and spending all my potions and revives; Eagun's fully purified team threw me for a loop!
Ngl, I'm not surprised that this was missed in XG. This is the same hack that thought Shadow Boom was a fun, fair and balanced thing to give Shadow Pokemon. Everything I see about that hack looks like it was barely playtested.
@@SaltedNeos I definitely get how viewing the game from the outside can make it look janky and poorly thought through, but it's honestly really solid if you take it for what it is. It really doesn't play well if you try the traditional approach of picking a reset team of 6 pokemon and finishing the game with them. Instead, it's most fun when playing with a very fluid party, rotating the various wacky shadow pokemon around as they stay relevant. The endgame fights do tend to require a bit of specific counter-teaming if you want to snag anything without crazy amounts of luck, but I didn't find retrying the last stretch of fights a few times. The jank is a lot more fun when you realize you get to utilize pretty much all of it yourself! Also, as for Shadow Boom in particular, 9 out of 10 times I'd be more afraid of vanilla Self-Destruct anyway. It's definitely not the most abominable shadow move. 😅
@@genuineangusbeef8697 Shadow Boom's issue isn't power, its the fact that anyone who wants to got for completion is forced to use save states against those Shadow Pokemon cause the alternative is waiting for Miror B. I'm not a big difficulty hack kind of guy anyways, but the more I see about this one in particular the less I'm interested unfortunately.
Epic thumbnail. I would think that, if his team was actually considered good, the devs might’ve been more inclined to make preventive measures for this. But as is, it’s funny as hell; thanks for pointing this out.
I mean, the mere existence of a softlock in these games is about as bad as it will ever get. Every single softlock in this series you pretty much have to actively try to get yourself stuck in.
Idk, why should someone who can get to Cinnabar Island in gen 1 then go and release every Pokemon who has access to Surf. This sort of thing still usually gets addressed once its known, the devs of XD just didn't think of what would happen if this fight was an infinite rematch that locks you out of catching anything.
9 หลายเดือนก่อน +2
Does Hyper Mode's "attacking the trainer" aspect actually happen?
I don't remember XD all that well- is it truly a permanent softlock? Do you not earn exp when causing Eagan's Pokemon to faint, even if you lose the battle? It would take an incredibly combination of persistence and luck, but couldn't a player eventually level up their Pokemon enough to beat the fight, so long as they don't have just the exploding Snorlax?
@@SaltedNeos that's why I said an incredible combo of persistence and luck. A level 11 Ledyba is certainly going to lose that fight 99% of the time, but unless the mechanics are drastically different than I remember, misses and crits still exist and happen independently of one another. I'm not arguing the softlock isn't a softlock, I'm asking with infinite time, there would not be some way to level up your Pokemon in this fight to be able to beat it.
Simple, the difference is that you literally cannot leave the area until you beat him, you can't trade in XD outside of Phenac City, and this is the area you spawn in after beating the final boss. Typically you can at least still backtrack, but in this case you can't.
![ง้อ (ALRIGHT) - FOURTH Prod. by URBOYTJ [ OFFICIAL MV ]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Qs8ZeV6Dqj8/mqdefault.jpg)
Imagine if he had an actually good team. The soft lock would be so much scarier.
I'm pretty sure this is why no one actually encountered it before. The fact that it exists at all though is concerning, but the fact he leads 2 easy to KO Pichu means that unless you're actively trying to end up in this situation, you can usually get out of it, since you had to beat Greevil to get here.
@@SaltedNeos True, though it's still dumb that they didn't have an option to break free of this soft lock in case someone did something like release their strongest mons.
@@thanib7796 The other side of this is, that this is XD, so unless you have purified all your Shadow Pokemon and didn't catch Greevil's Shadows, you're also likely to have Pokemon you can't release.
@@SaltedNeos True!!
This is almost impossible imagine beating Greevil but then losing to Eagun
No less impossible than running out of money in gen 1 for the Safari Zone or getting stuck on Cinnabar Island cause you purposefully got rid of Surf.
Well, to be fair, a team that is capable of beating Greevil, having legendary birds and several very bulky pokemon, it's basically impossible to have a team that is not capable of taking on a team of Pikachu's evolution line. Since there is a PC and the Purification Chamber, you have access to all caught shadows and theoretically their purified forms, so there should be something to beat him.
Yeah this is only sTuPiD sOfTlOcK if the player is stupid enough to be caught in it
You can say this about pretty much every softlock in this series, that doesn't justify them existing. Its nearly impossible to play a Pokemon game and unintentionally end up softlocked. Even the "easy" ones you still need to do a lot of specific shit to end up in. Just because this fight is easy, that doesn't mean that losing it infinitely should completely lock you in the Pokemon HQ Lab, just like you shouldn't be able to completely lock your save file in Cinnabar Island in gen 1, or trade away the only Pokemon you have with surf to an NPC.
I like this video. I never knew this could happen, even as a kid with my basic understanding of how type matchups worked, I didn’t lose to Eagun
Would love to see the Colosseum video! Had no idea about the game giving you a pokeball if you threw away the 5 you were given, that's really cool! Love the Orre games
Its so weird to think that you could be locked here. You gotta REALLY go out of your way to do it but that is kind of funny ngl.
I find it utterly baffling that they even allow you to release Pokemon in these games. If my understanding is correct (I just finished my first playthrough of Colosseum and haven't played XD yet), these games both have a *finite* amount of Pokemon in them, which means you can *never* run out of storage space for them. Not only can you never run out of space, but even with trading, you can never exceed the max amount of Pokemon the game gives you. So what is the benefit of releasing a Pokemon? If you ever release a Pokemon, you are permanently reducing the number of Pokemon your save file can hold. Hell, there are probably a lot of random softlocks you can run into just by releasing all your Pokemon except one.
Shedinja still exists and can be evolved in Colosseum to increase the amount of Pokemon on the save file, meanwhile XD has wild Pokemon, the option still needs to exist.
@@SaltedNeos Oh that's clever. Never thought to use Shedinja to increase Pokemon count. Also just wasn't aware XD had wild Pokemon. 😅
@@Ocarinist_Drew Neither did the development team. There is a bug where full boxes causes issues when you complete Mt. Battle.
Genius sonority are regarded as some godly studio for some reason but all they did was porting an already existing game system into two weirdly developed and very short jrpgs, theres like zero thinking in at least revamping some aspects of the pokemon gameplay that become limitations when translated to their games.
Also all the pokemon models and animations are of Creatures inc authorship btw
@@sebman6031You forgot the part that their most recent Pokemon projects were Pokemon Shuffle and Pokemon Cafe Mix. I don't actually have a negative opinion toward Shuffle, but its hard to argue that either of those games are legendary/godly.
Great vid! Definitely want to see the other vids you have about the jank lol (also if you have any pokepark vids you could think of 👀👀👀)
I actually hit this snag in pokemon XG! The developer also didn't know about it and made this Eagun fight into a mini-boss. I got caught totally off-guard, as I barely beat Greevil while counter-teaming specifically for him and spending all my potions and revives; Eagun's fully purified team threw me for a loop!
Ngl, I'm not surprised that this was missed in XG. This is the same hack that thought Shadow Boom was a fun, fair and balanced thing to give Shadow Pokemon. Everything I see about that hack looks like it was barely playtested.
@@SaltedNeos I definitely get how viewing the game from the outside can make it look janky and poorly thought through, but it's honestly really solid if you take it for what it is.
It really doesn't play well if you try the traditional approach of picking a reset team of 6 pokemon and finishing the game with them. Instead, it's most fun when playing with a very fluid party, rotating the various wacky shadow pokemon around as they stay relevant. The endgame fights do tend to require a bit of specific counter-teaming if you want to snag anything without crazy amounts of luck, but I didn't find retrying the last stretch of fights a few times. The jank is a lot more fun when you realize you get to utilize pretty much all of it yourself!
Also, as for Shadow Boom in particular, 9 out of 10 times I'd be more afraid of vanilla Self-Destruct anyway. It's definitely not the most abominable shadow move. 😅
@@genuineangusbeef8697 Shadow Boom's issue isn't power, its the fact that anyone who wants to got for completion is forced to use save states against those Shadow Pokemon cause the alternative is waiting for Miror B. I'm not a big difficulty hack kind of guy anyways, but the more I see about this one in particular the less I'm interested unfortunately.
Epic thumbnail. I would think that, if his team was actually considered good, the devs might’ve been more inclined to make preventive measures for this. But as is, it’s funny as hell; thanks for pointing this out.
I mean, the mere existence of a softlock in these games is about as bad as it will ever get. Every single softlock in this series you pretty much have to actively try to get yourself stuck in.
great catch - i've never seen this mentioned! i hope someone tries pick the soft lock, i cant imagine how crazy any strat to escape it must be
I love pokemon XD. Never knew this!
Nice vid
But why should someone who beat greevil lose to eagun??
Idk, why should someone who can get to Cinnabar Island in gen 1 then go and release every Pokemon who has access to Surf. This sort of thing still usually gets addressed once its known, the devs of XD just didn't think of what would happen if this fight was an infinite rematch that locks you out of catching anything.
Does Hyper Mode's "attacking the trainer" aspect actually happen?
Yes, it does, it is remote, but it can happen.
@@SaltedNeos Does Wes have his own health bar, then?
@ Its effectively a flavourful way of skipping the turn, you can also attack the opposing trainer.
I don't remember XD all that well- is it truly a permanent softlock? Do you not earn exp when causing Eagan's Pokemon to faint, even if you lose the battle? It would take an incredibly combination of persistence and luck, but couldn't a player eventually level up their Pokemon enough to beat the fight, so long as they don't have just the exploding Snorlax?
Every scenario I listed as an example here either suicides or can't kill anything. Please tell me how a level 11 Ledyba is killing something.
@@SaltedNeos that's why I said an incredible combo of persistence and luck. A level 11 Ledyba is certainly going to lose that fight 99% of the time, but unless the mechanics are drastically different than I remember, misses and crits still exist and happen independently of one another.
I'm not arguing the softlock isn't a softlock, I'm asking with infinite time, there would not be some way to level up your Pokemon in this fight to be able to beat it.
The Pichu always go for their offensive moves, and one of them knows Volt Tackle, its impossible.
Nah I believe in leidiba or however you spell it
clearly not enough if you can't even remember its name
💀
interesting
How is this different from losing any other mandatory battle?
Simple, the difference is that you literally cannot leave the area until you beat him, you can't trade in XD outside of Phenac City, and this is the area you spawn in after beating the final boss. Typically you can at least still backtrack, but in this case you can't.
thats funny uwu