I feel like you need to consider who would have made these rhymes. Who would know enough to collect and assemble all this. I think that would structure your theories and unify them.
"behind" depends on your frame of reference. What if Iax is trapped behind the doors, but that means he is simply in the physical world (as we know the Chandrian are there). What if no other path to the Fae is available to Iax, and opening the door simply lets him BACK INTO the Fae? Could also explain why the University/order of the amyr make that their base, because they are guarding it against Iax.
It astounds me how much attention to detail rothfuss puts into his foreshadowing and clues. Even if some of this is coincidental, it’s amazing how many connections fit. Although I do believe most of these clues are intentional. Maybe we’ll find out if we ever get DoS. Your videos keep my fire burning for this series. Many thanks.
I think that the fact that Kvothe has his naming knack and says it sounds like glass OR stone, means it is glass AND stone and therefore Obsidian - Volcanic glass.
Another great KKC video, really enjoyed this one. I often wonder about the Chandrian's goals, we know they want to sleep/die, and who else could possibly grant them this other than the most powerful Shaper of his age. Kvothe very likely being the one to open the Lackless door for them and free Iax. The only part I cannot factor in is why they go to all the trouble of killing anyone who speaks their true names? I'm not convinced the four plate door, is the one Iax is trapped behind. Two reasons; regards to 'the door that holds the flood' the Scrael are mentioned as coming over the mountains. The other reason is the Masters lack of concern, if this door were so dangerous, would they not block it up? I believe its more likely they have knowledge behind it (Kvothe's hearts desire) information on the Chandrian including their names, not something you'd want to destroy, but also not something you would want in the hands of E'lire😁
Thank you! The Chandrian's goals are a big mystery, but I think it's likely tied into freeing Iax. Like you said, maybe Iax can bring them the sleep/death they desire or Iax is so powerful a shaper that he's able to break the curse. I've also wondered why they kill anyone who speaks their true names, and all I can think is that knowing their true names grants some form of mastery over them. Hearing their true name draws them to that person like a lodenstone. Possibly it causes them physical pain or mental torture, or it's the exact thing that is keeping their curse alive- knowledge of their existence. It's hard to say. Hmmm that is a good point about the Scrael coming from over the mountains. It's definitely possible The Doors of Stone that Iax is locked behind and the four-plate door are different, though the story of Jax and his broken house being the underthing does seem plausible to me. Perhaps behind the four-plate door is an account of true history, the events that really took place during the creation war, and the truth about Iax and/or the Chandrian. "Kvothe had gone looking for his heart’s desire. He had to trick a demon to get it. But once it rested in his hand, he was forced to fight an angel to keep it." I think the demon could be Devi (or the barrow king that Fela had a dream about) and I think it's a pretty common theory at this point that the angel is Auri, but I really hope not!
@@CapturedInWords Regarding the saying of true names causing them pain, I was thinking along similar lines, and it would be sufficient justification to track down and kill those involved, but knowing Rothfuss I suspect it's something grander. As for the 'keeping the curse alive' unless the Chandrian go on a huge killing spree in book 3 that isn't feasible within the frame timeline. Also it would be complicated to explain to the reader, Selitos slipping a clause into the curses fine print 'if no one speaks your names in 10 years then the curse is null and void.' Not impossible, but unlikely I think. 'Perhaps behind the four-plate door is an account of true history, the events that really took place during the creation war, and the truth about Iax and/or the Chandrian.' That makes a lot of sense to me. I suspect Book 3 will feature a fair bit of time at the university early on, with whatever Kvothe uncovering ultimately drawing him to Vintas. One theory I had was Ambrose recognises her as a Vintish princess, and abducting her, this would also draw Kvothe to Vintus, where we know the plot is heading. Devi being the Demon fits nicely, (her nickname is common knowledge across Imre) I was thinking the same, we know she wants into the archive, perhaps Kvothe needs her help getting through the Four plate door? I can't see him fighting Auri, there are some lines I just cannot imagine Kvothe crossing.
That's a good point about the Scrael. And also if Iax and hoards of skin dancers materialized in the heart of the university then Chronicler would have probably mentioned it.
Kvothe referring to the door as “a door for staying closed” is similar to something Rothfuss said about a story he wrote - The adventures of princess and Mr whiffle. At a convention, after reading the story, he went through the book again to point out all the clues that foreshadow the ending. He points out that the walls surrounding the princess’ castle was “not a wall for keeping out, but a wall for keeping in.” This supports the theory of Iax being imprisoned behind the four plate door (doors of stone).
It took years for me to figure this out 😮😂, because the German translation isn’t transporting everything right and I started reading the originals very late . Now I step into YT just to find out, you did all the detective work like a magician 😂. Smart! I love your thoughts
So... When Cinder said "someone's parents have been singing entirely the wrong sorts of songs" perhaps he was referring to the song about Natalia, not the song about the Chandrian. Because they were simply assassinating the Lockless family and that song was the key to find them.
There’s actually no evidence that the Chandrian actually killed Kvothe’s parents, or even that Kvothe’s parents are dead (this is heavily implied, but not confirmed). It is possible that it is the Amyr that attacked the troop, and the Chandrian were surveying the wreckage. If you open up to that possibility, it is very well possible that the songs that got them attacked were not in regards to Lanre, or the Chandrian themselves
"The fae realm...the greatest of them sewed it from whole cloth". Raveling: a thread from a woven or knitted fabric that has started to fray or unravel. Does Kvothe unknit the fae realm with his actions, is it starting to unravel. He has a habit of tearing clothes, his gut broke when he was stitching his knee, his lute string breaks, the tinker trades him a threadbare cloak for his new crimson cloak. he made a life and living for himself but it unravels when he kills a king. He is the raveling that is let loose from fae.
I deeply appreciate the work you do. These videos reignite an excitement and wonder in me that are very needed at certain times. Keep up the great work!
Well, this made my head spin. I swear, Patrick Rothfuss hid more secrets and foreshadowing in his two books than Brandon Sanderson in his entire Cosmere! Perhaps that's an exaggeration, but not by much!
Once again great video! One thing you didn't touch on is where these children's rhymes came from. Are all the Lackless secrets common knowledge enough that they made their way into two separate rhymes? They're similar, but different enough in form and content that one did not easily evolve into the other, at least not with a lot of intermediate forms which are not mentioned. They *could* be very old and have somehow survived for thousands of years, and these are now two of the surviving versions. It could also be that someone more recent has created these rhymes as a way of spreading rumors or information. The later seems more likely to me, because it seems like the rhymes refer specifically to Kvothe's mother. It could be similar to how Denna's patron is helping her spread a song that paints Lanre in a positive light.
I feel like Kvothe could be a part of some plan on the part of the Chandrian. They could be planting 'the right' songs and rhymes and killing off his troupe and shaping his life in ways to make him fulfill some destiny that serves their purpose. Whatever he locked in his own box could be a continuation of that plan or purpose.
Here's how I've understood the two versions. The version without innuendo is the older version that literally just contains the secrets for opening the lackless door. Perhaps it was passed down throughout the Lackless family, or perhaps it was contained in some old academic book and eventually gets shared around. It is kind of catchy and intriguing, so people start learning it, even though they don't know what it's about. Then because that version is known, someone makes up another version with all of the innuendo. Just as Kvothe makes up a song about Ambrose, this one is similar enough to the original to be recognized, but is funnier. The weird part is that it also contains things which we presume to be true about the Lackless door which weren't present in the original. The way I read it, we're led to believe it refers to Natalia Lackless (aka Kvothe's mom), but in fact it all makes more sense if it is about Lyra, aka the original Lady Lackless. But when you read it as innuendo, then it would still offend Laurian/Natalia. Initiially I thought that it would need to be someone with insider knowledge of the door and the family, but if you read it without innuendo, it doesn't need to relate to the family at all, so the innuendo is just a little fun to go along with the hidden truths.
The door is not locking something in...locking someone out? To clarify, Rothfuss is crafty and never actually says which side of the door is the "locked in" side. He makes you assume one way but it's probably the other...
This is actually pretty nuts that youre doing a video on this. I was looking at this exact thing to incorporate it into my DND campaign just a few hours ago XD
Actually from the vase picture it appears that there might be three candles. I suspect that the red flame is the normal look, the black is actually the blue flame (contextually blue flame is right behind it) and it looks like there's maybe another small candle without an aura right in the middle. It's also notable that Taborlin has his magic candle which is almost certainly a in-universe literary reference to this candle.
Glad you enjoy the videos! I can definitely relate, sometimes I feel like my interest/love for the series fades a bit since there's still no news. Then I start reading/listening to them again and I can't help but think of more theories 😅
When I first found your channel I had a bit of a hyperfixation about Kingkiller and I devoured everything you made about it! Now, my interest in the books has waned a bit as I get further from them and wait for the third, but I still love watching your theory and lore videos. I always get the feeling that constructing these theories is something you enjoy just by watching you talk, and even if I’m not into any other part of the fandom, I’ll still make times for your Kingkiller videos whenever I see them!
I’m definitely leaning into the theory that the broken house at the end of a broken road is the underthing, which I hadn’t really picked up on before. There’s still some ambiguity in the two rhymes but overall it feels like the pieces are falling into place. How things will unfold, well, we’ll just have to see.
Massively interesting! These videos are keeping the hype alive for this series. I've been wanting to re-read them for ages now but these videos give me that little taste to satiate my desire for more KKC!
I think Denna may have a lot to do with this. I believe her name derives from Diana, who is the goddess of the moon in Greco-Roman mythology. If the name Diana has the same connotations in NOTW, well maybe she is the key to unlocking the door. In either case, I really think she is tied to the moon
I love getting these videos from you man. I’m on my 5th reread right now. I’ve filled two notebooks full of idea and different possible theories. I really should send you some to see what you think. Keep up the good fight brother!
Wonderful job as always. Just another thing to add to the Lockless Box and C’theth tree - Kvothe mentions wanting to eat the tree, and tasting the air around the box.
"Next came Finol of the clear and shining eye, much beloved of Dulcen. She herself slew two daruna, then was killed by gremmen at the Drossen Tor." From Saicere's history, havent seen much about this but could the sword be old enough to have been used at the bloc of drossen tor?
@@jaylenpence9732 that would mean its 5000 years old at least, i think theres a chance it was used at the site but maybe not the specific battle because kvothe estimated it to be about 2000 years old which is a way newer
I really enjoy your videos and getting into Lore and Theory videos! I’ve only done the Audiobooks of Name of the Wind, Wise Man’s Fear, and Slow Regard of Silent things and I read the Ebook of The Lightning Tree each one time only. I have not re read or researched this idea but I’ve thought it on a few separate occasions. Two of the signs of the Chandrian is rotting wood and rusting metal to the point of breaking. What if those 2 signs have some importance to opening Kvoths chest at the waystone in? As mentioned I have not looked into this so there could be details that make it fall apart that I’ve forgotten or missed but I do like the idea for now.
Awesome video again! I look forward to watching these when I see them posted! I’ve never though of Iax as being Lanre’s father and I don’t buy it. I think the Haliax being breath of Iax is what Lanre becomes when he goes to Iax and comes back with power in Naming. In the Blac he had no Naming ability but when he speaks to Selitos (who I think is the Cthea) he has powers he didn’t have before- this is because Lanre talks to Iax and gets his powers to become Haliax. It’s also said Lanre spoke to the Cthea before he betrays Myr Tariniel, and in Skarpi’s story he speaks to Selitos so they could be the same. As for the Lackless box with the obsidian in it- if Selitos is the Cthea then the stone (presumably with blood on it) is locked inescapably inside a box with wood of the same type the Cthea. This I think the Lackless box is a special piece of magic which Binds the Cthea/Selitos to the tree in which it resides.
Kvothes mother getting pregnant from Iax would also give a good reason why arleden wanted to tell the story of the chandrian. It’s a story that’s close to him.
I like the idea that the ring that’s not for wearing could be referring to the wooden ring that maeluin (however you spell it) gave him as an insult to his being an edema rue ( because according to bredon no one would wear a wooden ring as it is saying you are the lowest class) but the more I think about it could also be the edema rue symbol (the one family is represented as a ring) but as we later see it is not for wearing as only traitors are branded with the broken circle so if you wear the ring than you are not edema rue. Both rings work and symbolize Kvothe’s heritage
I really like that idea, that the ring could be the Edema Ruh ring! I think that's definitely a possibility, and would further emphasize that the 'one who brings the blood' is a Ruh
I still think that all of the clues that point to the Edema Ruh or to Kvothe's mother are actually red herrings. Whoever wrote the rhyme knew the actual details of the Lackless door/box/whatever. This leads me to believe that the 'true' meaning of the words relate only to the mystery and not to Kvothe's life at all. Except in the sense that Rothfuss likes to draw parallels, like how the stories of Tehlu resemble those of other figures and of Kvothe himself. Rothfuss has probably given every single clue a double meaning, one which pertains to the mystery of the door/box, and one which seems to relate to Kvothe's life. It also helps to highlight the ways in which we can read meaning into something that isn't there, like interpreting prophecy.
The black of drossen tor which alludes to a black dress is La nagra de vessen/vesten tor in the Spanish translation, which sounds like vestido negro meaning black dress. Definitely related
I am currently rereading WMF and just finished the chapter about the bandit camp and came to the realization that the name of tehlus angels is actually the names of the ceridae. if you read chapter 91 you might see what I saw written finely between the line. Love what you do! You make the anguish of waiting for the next book bearable. 😀
You made me think. The line about the candle being a bit uncertain. And then seeing the two candles on the pottery. Then taking account of master Lorren being the guardian of the 4 plate door. When kvothe brought a candle inside, Lorren flipped out. Yes I know because of the priceless collection of books etc, but what if that is just a convenient way of keeping candles away from the door. Sympathy uses candles often, maybe it has something to do with sympathy? Anyway, great vid as always
The Candle is actually quite simple. A candle is a universal symbol of hope. The candle with the orange flame represents hope (The hero Lanre, who all hopes were on for peace) and the black candle represents Lanre being somehow captured by the shadows hame (The loss of all hope). Lanre is the Candle of hope that was captured and twisted by the shadow (Encanis/iax's power... who knows exactly who or what it is). The candle is also named in association with Thelu and the Lackless wridle. On the vase we see the moon, with both the candle of hope and lost hope, with a dark figure (Iax/Lanre?) underneath. I think this figure is more likely Iax than Lanre actually. Anyway. The orange and black candle symbolize hope and lost hope.
i don't think book three is ever going to come out, I think pat "promised" too many things during both books and now there are too many characters and arcs open. The sword thing, the chandrian, the amyr, Denna, Ambrose, the possibility that he learns more names, the king that he kills... and I recall pat saying that this book would be shorter than AWMF, idk it seems too much and maybe that's one of the main issues
I can get behind all of that except the black dress part. It states in the book that black was word for battle. it seems more likely that that part is a translation error, like with the hall of the wind, or ravel being shortened from ravel end. That may be the missing price of the puzzle.
Love your work so much The adem also don't believe in fathers or fatherhood so fitting in with your theory if she did get pregnant through a dream it would fall into what the adem believe
I think there must be some hidden meanings to the nicknames Kvothe has been given such as the bloodless. There is so many small things insinuated that would sound almost silly if the reasoning of the names would just be "well he refused to bleed when whipped". Also I think Kvothe will learn the name of blood or something.
Also not a super unique theory but I’m guessing to open the box you need to read the story in the knot carving. I’m sure the story is about the luckless/lackless family and how to use whatever is in the box or why it is so important.
OhI forgot to mention the candle Auri makes! That part is really interesting because it reveals that Auri.... is a shaper. "She knew the true shape of the world" -TSRoST Auri has dismissed all other forms of magic as inadequate. She does not have enough time to make the candle. She wills the world to be a certain way and it becomes that way. She then has a candle. I think this could definitely be connected to the rhyme in some way
Blac of Drossen Tor is 100% where Kvothe saw the blue light in the sky when he spent the night on the moors after riding to the wedding. A tor is a large rock feature or hill in England that is generally on the moors, and that’s always what I imagined the wastelands he looks out on to look like.
Hello, hope you’re doing well. I’m listening to Wise Man’s Fear AGAIN lol and idk if it was this video or the last when you mentioned Kvothe’s mom might have gotten pregnant from her “dream” but I just had the thought that maybe that was the very reason she ran away, her being a noble and all it might have been less shame on her family for her to run away than “magically” get pregnant without being married. I love rereading the story with these different theory’s in mind. Peace and wholeness fam
Some things I've been thinking about lately: 1. I think Denna's patron is a member of the Chandrin or has a strong connection to them. Maybe Denna has a connection to the Chandrin too. 2. Don't forget Caudicus could possibly still alive and we didn't learn the motive for wanting to kill the Maer. Caudicus knew a lot about the Lackless/Lockless family, but Kvothe didn't seem interested in learning those details when Caudicus offered. I feel like Kvothe of all people would have taken him up on that information if there was something in it for him (family history). Wouldn't a lockless door be just the thing that Kvothe would do anything to learn as much about given there is a door at the University that has captured his attention for several semesters? 3. I think professor Dahl is one of the secret Amire, maybe other professors at the University as well.
As someone who, quite literally, just finished the 2nd book today (and the first right around the start of the year...) one theory I'd like to put forth after watching a fair few of your videos is that the Cthaeh isn't evil. Sure, from the immediate perspective (which much of the fae tend to have, as time doesn't have a whole lot of meaning to them) it seems horrible - huge war, countless people dying, world being shattered, etc. But when you look at things from a more grand stage - the reader's point of view, if you will - then it could be argued that the Cthaeh is acting in the best interest of the mortal realm. In the story there's a fairly decent separation between the fae realm and the mortal realm; sure there's a few leaks here and there, but that doesn't do anything beyond dragging the odd farmer into Felurian's embrace or other 'once in a generation' sort of things. The reason for this separation - the Cthaeh's meddling with Iax/Jax; what caused the creation war in the first place (assuming you go with the Cthaeh being the Tinker theory in the 'mortal' version of the story). The separation did a decent job of cutting off the incredibly powerful, nigh immortal - and largely immoral - fae from the comparably powerless mortal realm. Save for Kvothe, how easy was it for Felurian to entrap people? If she were to want to do so, how many could she have pulled away; and how may other fae could do the same - have done the same? What if the catastrophe that Kvothe caused was one that, while immediately very bloody and terrible (civil war and all that), was one that set the mortal world on the path to proper 'rightness', separation from the fae entirely (possibly magic to boot) and is the thing that changes the fantastical world into a more 'realistic' one that's on the right path? Admittedly, I still need to (sledge)hammer through lots of these thoughts, and go through the books a few more times to pick up on some details that I almost certainly have missed, but I thought it was curious enough to share after listening to a fair bit of your stuff. Cheers.
Something not mentioned is that if Kvothe and Lanre/Haliax are the son's of Iax, that would mean they are half brother's. A potential other interpretation is that Haliax needs to be present for the door to be opened
My passion for these books is really fading recently, starting to belive book 3 just isn't coming. Really do hope I am proved wrong though and all the recent talk or rothfuss being a conman are proved wrong. Here hoping 🙏
Kvothe was given a ring not for wearing by his aunt at the end of the Alveron saga, although i like the ring of stones better as Kvothe sees that in a dream after his parents die and is controlled by his sleeping mind
I'm on team moon rocks. Repeatedly in the books, Kvoathe mentions that he'd "sooner steal a piece of the moon" before doing something, then promptly doing that thing. He's going to steal the moon rocks. 🤷🏼♀️ Why? No clue. What that has to do with anything? No clue. But it seems obvious to me that he is going to steal a piece of the moon somehow.
If we assume the Lackless door is the four plate door the phrase a candle without light might also refer to the incident in the library. Candles might not only be forbidden because of the flames. They might also play a key role in opening up the four plate door.
A bit change of topic but something I beign noticing in your videos. An Important text for the viewer is displayed on screen for just a few couple of seconds and you swap to the camera showing you talk, it would be better having more time to read the text since we still have time because you do not change to another important scene but just your face in front of the camera. If you leave the text more time you do not have to change the script or the lenght of the video. Same happens with text displayed around your camera, you pull it out quickly from screen with no reason, the text could be on screen while you continue talking. Since these are videos with analysis and showing evidence, I think is important to have the information available and not having to pause or even rewind for a text. This is also important because the text appears in different parts of the screen with different styles and sizes.
You make great videos, too good for the KKC. Do a video on Rothfuss taking +500k in donations for a charity goal and not releasing it. He didn't do a charity stream this year, something he had put a lot of time into for over a decade because all people would be asking about is the scam from last year. Your videos are great and your theories will be better on whatever Rothfuss puts out in 2030 or whenever he gets done. A great fantasy series whose author went down a dark road.
I'm not sure what is behind the Lackless door, but I don't think it is Velaritas. I am convinced that what's in the Lackless box is the piece of obsidian Selitos used to " gain a better sight"
--------A Theory easily proven wrong. The Cthaeh does not Lie. "She held up much better than you're FATHER, with all his begging and blubbering" ------------------Cthaeh
One thing that just popped into my mind: Arliden was writing a song about the Chandrian. What if Abenthy didn't just happen upon the truth, but was sent by the Masters of the University who are secretly Amyr? What if, in some way, the Chandrian and Amyr are the same or actually just working together to some end? The troupe are killed just after Abenthy leaves. Maybe he had decided that Arliden and Laurian knew too much, and called that Chandrian?
Does anyone know if Rothfuss has ever commented on fan-theories? Are we close? Is the reason that it's taken so long to Wright book 3 because people keep making extra connections that even rothfuss didn't make but finds good so he has te rewrite parts of the book and then newer better theories emerge and this goes on and on?
11:00 I think Kvothe is a son who brings the blood: 1) genetically if he is the lack less heir 2) and could this be literal for his test to get into the school in Ademre when he presents his upturned hand to Shehyn?
Let me know your thoughts on the 7 things mentioned in the poem! And what do you think is behind the Lackless Door?
I feel like you need to consider who would have made these rhymes. Who would know enough to collect and assemble all this. I think that would structure your theories and unify them.
@@Astourians Very good point!!!
"behind" depends on your frame of reference. What if Iax is trapped behind the doors, but that means he is simply in the physical world (as we know the Chandrian are there). What if no other path to the Fae is available to Iax, and opening the door simply lets him BACK INTO the Fae? Could also explain why the University/order of the amyr make that their base, because they are guarding it against Iax.
You're too good at this. At this rate, Doors of Stone will be written by you, Jay.
🤣
I'm tempted to start writing a fan version of book 3 😅
Captured in words should prompt chat gpt to write Doors of Stone. He could give proper inputs and write it paragraph by paragraph
@@CapturedInWords I would gladly read it. At this point I'm not expecting the book release, so I'd be content with a good fan version.
@@CapturedInWords Do it, no joke.
It astounds me how much attention to detail rothfuss puts into his foreshadowing and clues. Even if some of this is coincidental, it’s amazing how many connections fit. Although I do believe most of these clues are intentional. Maybe we’ll find out if we ever get DoS. Your videos keep my fire burning for this series. Many thanks.
I think that the fact that Kvothe has his naming knack and says it sounds like glass OR stone, means it is glass AND stone and therefore Obsidian - Volcanic glass.
I agree with this, I think it's the piece of obsidian Selitos used to...gain a better sight
I'm sure we're not getting book 3 because Patrick watches your videos and keep changing the story with all the ideas you're giving him 🙂
The chest in Kvothes Room (in the Waystone Inn) also has the aroma of citrus - btw
These videos give me life as I maintain a sliver of hope the third book will be published before I die.
For without hope, what do any of us have?
Every time I think I can leave Kvothe behind and focus on some new stories… you pull me back in
Another great KKC video, really enjoyed this one. I often wonder about the Chandrian's goals, we know they want to sleep/die, and who else could possibly grant them this other than the most powerful Shaper of his age. Kvothe very likely being the one to open the Lackless door for them and free Iax. The only part I cannot factor in is why they go to all the trouble of killing anyone who speaks their true names?
I'm not convinced the four plate door, is the one Iax is trapped behind. Two reasons; regards to 'the door that holds the flood' the Scrael are mentioned as coming over the mountains. The other reason is the Masters lack of concern, if this door were so dangerous, would they not block it up? I believe its more likely they have knowledge behind it (Kvothe's hearts desire) information on the Chandrian including their names, not something you'd want to destroy, but also not something you would want in the hands of E'lire😁
Thank you! The Chandrian's goals are a big mystery, but I think it's likely tied into freeing Iax. Like you said, maybe Iax can bring them the sleep/death they desire or Iax is so powerful a shaper that he's able to break the curse. I've also wondered why they kill anyone who speaks their true names, and all I can think is that knowing their true names grants some form of mastery over them. Hearing their true name draws them to that person like a lodenstone. Possibly it causes them physical pain or mental torture, or it's the exact thing that is keeping their curse alive- knowledge of their existence. It's hard to say.
Hmmm that is a good point about the Scrael coming from over the mountains. It's definitely possible The Doors of Stone that Iax is locked behind and the four-plate door are different, though the story of Jax and his broken house being the underthing does seem plausible to me. Perhaps behind the four-plate door is an account of true history, the events that really took place during the creation war, and the truth about Iax and/or the Chandrian.
"Kvothe had gone looking for his heart’s desire. He had to trick a demon to get it. But once it rested in his hand, he was forced to fight an angel to keep it."
I think the demon could be Devi (or the barrow king that Fela had a dream about) and I think it's a pretty common theory at this point that the angel is Auri, but I really hope not!
@@CapturedInWords Regarding the saying of true names causing them pain, I was thinking along similar lines, and it would be sufficient justification to track down and kill those involved, but knowing Rothfuss I suspect it's something grander. As for the 'keeping the curse alive' unless the Chandrian go on a huge killing spree in book 3 that isn't feasible within the frame timeline. Also it would be complicated to explain to the reader, Selitos slipping a clause into the curses fine print 'if no one speaks your names in 10 years then the curse is null and void.' Not impossible, but unlikely I think.
'Perhaps behind the four-plate door is an account of true history, the events that really took place during the creation war, and the truth about Iax and/or the Chandrian.' That makes a lot of sense to me. I suspect Book 3 will feature a fair bit of time at the university early on, with whatever Kvothe uncovering ultimately drawing him to Vintas. One theory I had was Ambrose recognises her as a Vintish princess, and abducting her, this would also draw Kvothe to Vintus, where we know the plot is heading.
Devi being the Demon fits nicely, (her nickname is common knowledge across Imre) I was thinking the same, we know she wants into the archive, perhaps Kvothe needs her help getting through the Four plate door? I can't see him fighting Auri, there are some lines I just cannot imagine Kvothe crossing.
That's a good point about the Scrael. And also if Iax and hoards of skin dancers materialized in the heart of the university then Chronicler would have probably mentioned it.
in 2166, when Book 3 comes out, we shall see if this was right.
At least my consciousness uploaded to the hive mind will celebrate that day
Kvothe referring to the door as “a door for staying closed” is similar to something Rothfuss said about a story he wrote - The adventures of princess and Mr whiffle. At a convention, after reading the story, he went through the book again to point out all the clues that foreshadow the ending. He points out that the walls surrounding the princess’ castle was “not a wall for keeping out, but a wall for keeping in.” This supports the theory of Iax being imprisoned behind the four plate door (doors of stone).
The hair of Kvothe is often compared to a flame so maybe he is a "candle without light". Because he is burning, but without light.
It took years for me to figure this out 😮😂, because the German translation isn’t transporting everything right and I started reading the originals very late . Now I step into YT just to find out, you did all the detective work like a magician 😂. Smart! I love your thoughts
So... When Cinder said "someone's parents have been singing entirely the wrong sorts of songs" perhaps he was referring to the song about Natalia, not the song about the Chandrian. Because they were simply assassinating the Lockless family and that song was the key to find them.
There’s actually no evidence that the Chandrian actually killed Kvothe’s parents, or even that Kvothe’s parents are dead (this is heavily implied, but not confirmed). It is possible that it is the Amyr that attacked the troop, and the Chandrian were surveying the wreckage. If you open up to that possibility, it is very well possible that the songs that got them attacked were not in regards to Lanre, or the Chandrian themselves
@@sijankhan7796 I've heard that theory but the problem with it is that Cinder was such a dick?
"The fae realm...the greatest of them sewed it from whole cloth". Raveling: a thread from a woven or knitted fabric that has started to fray or unravel. Does Kvothe unknit the fae realm with his actions, is it starting to unravel. He has a habit of tearing clothes, his gut broke when he was stitching his knee, his lute string breaks, the tinker trades him a threadbare cloak for his new crimson cloak. he made a life and living for himself but it unravels when he kills a king. He is the raveling that is let loose from fae.
I deeply appreciate the work you do. These videos reignite an excitement and wonder in me that are very needed at certain times. Keep up the great work!
Well, this made my head spin. I swear, Patrick Rothfuss hid more secrets and foreshadowing in his two books than Brandon Sanderson in his entire Cosmere! Perhaps that's an exaggeration, but not by much!
Once again great video! One thing you didn't touch on is where these children's rhymes came from. Are all the Lackless secrets common knowledge enough that they made their way into two separate rhymes? They're similar, but different enough in form and content that one did not easily evolve into the other, at least not with a lot of intermediate forms which are not mentioned. They *could* be very old and have somehow survived for thousands of years, and these are now two of the surviving versions. It could also be that someone more recent has created these rhymes as a way of spreading rumors or information. The later seems more likely to me, because it seems like the rhymes refer specifically to Kvothe's mother. It could be similar to how Denna's patron is helping her spread a song that paints Lanre in a positive light.
I feel like Kvothe could be a part of some plan on the part of the Chandrian. They could be planting 'the right' songs and rhymes and killing off his troupe and shaping his life in ways to make him fulfill some destiny that serves their purpose. Whatever he locked in his own box could be a continuation of that plan or purpose.
Here's how I've understood the two versions.
The version without innuendo is the older version that literally just contains the secrets for opening the lackless door. Perhaps it was passed down throughout the Lackless family, or perhaps it was contained in some old academic book and eventually gets shared around. It is kind of catchy and intriguing, so people start learning it, even though they don't know what it's about.
Then because that version is known, someone makes up another version with all of the innuendo. Just as Kvothe makes up a song about Ambrose, this one is similar enough to the original to be recognized, but is funnier. The weird part is that it also contains things which we presume to be true about the Lackless door which weren't present in the original. The way I read it, we're led to believe it refers to Natalia Lackless (aka Kvothe's mom), but in fact it all makes more sense if it is about Lyra, aka the original Lady Lackless. But when you read it as innuendo, then it would still offend Laurian/Natalia. Initiially I thought that it would need to be someone with insider knowledge of the door and the family, but if you read it without innuendo, it doesn't need to relate to the family at all, so the innuendo is just a little fun to go along with the hidden truths.
The door is not locking something in...locking someone out?
To clarify, Rothfuss is crafty and never actually says which side of the door is the "locked in" side. He makes you assume one way but it's probably the other...
Well, if Pat never finishes the book you can write it from these videos! Great work!
I think eventually if Pat doesn't finish it, I'll start writing a fan version of book 3
@@CapturedInWords yes please.
This is actually pretty nuts that youre doing a video on this. I was looking at this exact thing to incorporate it into my DND campaign just a few hours ago
XD
Oh wow haha perfect timing!! Good luck with the campaign!
Brilliant video, editing, and theorising, as ever!
Thank you kindly!
Actually from the vase picture it appears that there might be three candles. I suspect that the red flame is the normal look, the black is actually the blue flame (contextually blue flame is right behind it) and it looks like there's maybe another small candle without an aura right in the middle. It's also notable that Taborlin has his magic candle which is almost certainly a in-universe literary reference to this candle.
Love the videos man! I’ve fallen out of love with the series cos of the wait but still find these theories very cool
Glad you enjoy the videos! I can definitely relate, sometimes I feel like my interest/love for the series fades a bit since there's still no news. Then I start reading/listening to them again and I can't help but think of more theories 😅
Jumping on TH-cam and seeing a new video just made my day. Thank you for the content!
When I first found your channel I had a bit of a hyperfixation about Kingkiller and I devoured everything you made about it! Now, my interest in the books has waned a bit as I get further from them and wait for the third, but I still love watching your theory and lore videos. I always get the feeling that constructing these theories is something you enjoy just by watching you talk, and even if I’m not into any other part of the fandom, I’ll still make times for your Kingkiller videos whenever I see them!
Your editing and research is on another level
Manet is that you
@@buiItnotbought Yes 😇
At this point I think you know more about these books than Rothfuss does. He’s probably here taking notes.
I’m definitely leaning into the theory that the broken house at the end of a broken road is the underthing, which I hadn’t really picked up on before. There’s still some ambiguity in the two rhymes but overall it feels like the pieces are falling into place. How things will unfold, well, we’ll just have to see.
Massively interesting! These videos are keeping the hype alive for this series. I've been wanting to re-read them for ages now but these videos give me that little taste to satiate my desire for more KKC!
I think Denna may have a lot to do with this. I believe her name derives from Diana, who is the goddess of the moon in Greco-Roman mythology. If the name Diana has the same connotations in NOTW, well maybe she is the key to unlocking the door. In either case, I really think she is tied to the moon
I love getting these videos from you man. I’m on my 5th reread right now. I’ve filled two notebooks full of idea and different possible theories. I really should send you some to see what you think. Keep up the good fight brother!
Wonderful job as always. Just another thing to add to the Lockless Box and C’theth tree - Kvothe mentions wanting to eat the tree, and tasting the air around the box.
I wonder if Pat has been throwing theories up on reddit and seeing which ones get the most traction and make it work lol
"Next came Finol of the clear and shining eye, much beloved of Dulcen. She herself slew two daruna, then was killed by gremmen at the Drossen Tor." From Saicere's history, havent seen much about this but could the sword be old enough to have been used at the bloc of drossen tor?
That explicitly stated it was present at drossen tor
@@jaylenpence9732 that would mean its 5000 years old at least, i think theres a chance it was used at the site but maybe not the specific battle because kvothe estimated it to be about 2000 years old which is a way newer
I really enjoy your videos and getting into Lore and Theory videos! I’ve only done the Audiobooks of Name of the Wind, Wise Man’s Fear, and Slow Regard of Silent things and I read the Ebook of The Lightning Tree each one time only. I have not re read or researched this idea but I’ve thought it on a few separate occasions. Two of the signs of the Chandrian is rotting wood and rusting metal to the point of breaking. What if those 2 signs have some importance to opening Kvoths chest at the waystone in? As mentioned I have not looked into this so there could be details that make it fall apart that I’ve forgotten or missed but I do like the idea for now.
Awesome video again! I look forward to watching these when I see them posted!
I’ve never though of Iax as being Lanre’s father and I don’t buy it. I think the Haliax being breath of Iax is what Lanre becomes when he goes to Iax and comes back with power in Naming. In the Blac he had no Naming ability but when he speaks to Selitos (who I think is the Cthea) he has powers he didn’t have before- this is because Lanre talks to Iax and gets his powers to become Haliax.
It’s also said Lanre spoke to the Cthea before he betrays Myr Tariniel, and in Skarpi’s story he speaks to Selitos so they could be the same.
As for the Lackless box with the obsidian in it- if Selitos is the Cthea then the stone (presumably with blood on it) is locked inescapably inside a box with wood of the same type the Cthea. This I think the Lackless box is a special piece of magic which Binds the Cthea/Selitos to the tree in which it resides.
Rothfuss should ask ChatGPT to finish the third book
Kvothes mother getting pregnant from Iax would also give a good reason why arleden wanted to tell the story of the chandrian. It’s a story that’s close to him.
I like the idea that the ring that’s not for wearing could be referring to the wooden ring that maeluin (however you spell it) gave him as an insult to his being an edema rue ( because according to bredon no one would wear a wooden ring as it is saying you are the lowest class) but the more I think about it could also be the edema rue symbol (the one family is represented as a ring) but as we later see it is not for wearing as only traitors are branded with the broken circle so if you wear the ring than you are not edema rue. Both rings work and symbolize Kvothe’s heritage
I really like that idea, that the ring could be the Edema Ruh ring! I think that's definitely a possibility, and would further emphasize that the 'one who brings the blood' is a Ruh
I still think that all of the clues that point to the Edema Ruh or to Kvothe's mother are actually red herrings. Whoever wrote the rhyme knew the actual details of the Lackless door/box/whatever. This leads me to believe that the 'true' meaning of the words relate only to the mystery and not to Kvothe's life at all. Except in the sense that Rothfuss likes to draw parallels, like how the stories of Tehlu resemble those of other figures and of Kvothe himself. Rothfuss has probably given every single clue a double meaning, one which pertains to the mystery of the door/box, and one which seems to relate to Kvothe's life. It also helps to highlight the ways in which we can read meaning into something that isn't there, like interpreting prophecy.
Your videos always build so much hype for book 3 for me... stop I've been hurt too many times.
The black of drossen tor which alludes to a black dress is La nagra de vessen/vesten tor in the Spanish translation, which sounds like vestido negro meaning black dress. Definitely related
I am currently rereading WMF and just finished the chapter about the bandit camp and came to the realization that the name of tehlus angels is actually the names of the ceridae. if you read chapter 91 you might see what I saw written finely between the line.
Love what you do! You make the anguish of waiting for the next book bearable. 😀
You made me think. The line about the candle being a bit uncertain. And then seeing the two candles on the pottery. Then taking account of master Lorren being the guardian of the 4 plate door. When kvothe brought a candle inside, Lorren flipped out. Yes I know because of the priceless collection of books etc, but what if that is just a convenient way of keeping candles away from the door. Sympathy uses candles often, maybe it has something to do with sympathy? Anyway, great vid as always
Grazie.
Thank you!
He will never finish
The Candle is actually quite simple. A candle is a universal symbol of hope. The candle with the orange flame represents hope (The hero Lanre, who all hopes were on for peace) and the black candle represents Lanre being somehow captured by the shadows hame (The loss of all hope). Lanre is the Candle of hope that was captured and twisted by the shadow (Encanis/iax's power... who knows exactly who or what it is). The candle is also named in association with Thelu and the Lackless wridle. On the vase we see the moon, with both the candle of hope and lost hope, with a dark figure (Iax/Lanre?) underneath. I think this figure is more likely Iax than Lanre actually. Anyway. The orange and black candle symbolize hope and lost hope.
Great video I love the King killer ones
I think the secret to the TH-cam algorithm is behind the Lackless Door!
Somebody open that door!!!!
Kvothe opens the lackless box, releasing the moon from the fae realm, restarting the creation war?
Yes! It would likely be complete chaos.
i don't think book three is ever going to come out, I think pat "promised" too many things during both books and now there are too many characters and arcs open. The sword thing, the chandrian, the amyr, Denna, Ambrose, the possibility that he learns more names, the king that he kills... and I recall pat saying that this book would be shorter than AWMF, idk it seems too much and maybe that's one of the main issues
I absolutely love your videos and attention to detail. You keep amazing me every time!
I can get behind all of that except the black dress part. It states in the book that black was word for battle. it seems more likely that that part is a translation error, like with the hall of the wind, or ravel being shortened from ravel end. That may be the missing price of the puzzle.
The door will open when... someone else finishes the series😥
My expectations are he will finish book 3 in the next 25 years. It makes the wait more bearable.
Agree, he is no longer a writer, now more of a social justice activist. So twisted, anything he would write would be so Woke it would be unreadable.
@@Rybay jesus, just go back to reading Ayn Rand.
Here for this
Great theory. I not quite sure if I believe in all of it. But great idea.
These videos help keep me sane before the doors of stone
I almost don't want the third book to come out, I love these theory videos so much!! Almost... 🥲
honestly, this is so good i feel like im getting spoilers
Love your work so much
The adem also don't believe in fathers or fatherhood so fitting in with your theory if she did get pregnant through a dream it would fall into what the adem believe
I think there must be some hidden meanings to the nicknames Kvothe has been given such as the bloodless. There is so many small things insinuated that would sound almost silly if the reasoning of the names would just be "well he refused to bleed when whipped". Also I think Kvothe will learn the name of blood or something.
Wow! This is fascinating! If the series is ever finished I will definitely read it!
Also not a super unique theory but I’m guessing to open the box you need to read the story in the knot carving. I’m sure the story is about the luckless/lackless family and how to use whatever is in the box or why it is so important.
Rothfuss needs to bring out the book asap! Hahah we’re figuring out too much 😂 great video!
Thank you for your video and for the grate work you do.🙏
You're welcome, and thank you for watching! :)
If Arliden is not Kvothe's bio father, does that mean he's not Adema Ruh?
Speaking about candles. Remember that thing Auri made Kvothe in TSRoST? She MADE him a candle. Maybe it has to do with the rhyme.
OhI forgot to mention the candle Auri makes! That part is really interesting because it reveals that Auri.... is a shaper. "She knew the true shape of the world" -TSRoST
Auri has dismissed all other forms of magic as inadequate. She does not have enough time to make the candle. She wills the world to be a certain way and it becomes that way. She then has a candle. I think this could definitely be connected to the rhyme in some way
Kvothe cuts down the catheh to make his chest...that's why it smells like citrus too
I love this. Thank you so much!!!
Blac of Drossen Tor is 100% where Kvothe saw the blue light in the sky when he spent the night on the moors after riding to the wedding. A tor is a large rock feature or hill in England that is generally on the moors, and that’s always what I imagined the wastelands he looks out on to look like.
Love the KKC videos. Please do an indepth summary of A Wise Man's Fear!! 🙏
Hello, hope you’re doing well. I’m listening to Wise Man’s Fear AGAIN lol and idk if it was this video or the last when you mentioned Kvothe’s mom might have gotten pregnant from her “dream” but I just had the thought that maybe that was the very reason she ran away, her being a noble and all it might have been less shame on her family for her to run away than “magically” get pregnant without being married. I love rereading the story with these different theory’s in mind.
Peace and wholeness fam
Some things I've been thinking about lately:
1. I think Denna's patron is a member of the Chandrin or has a strong connection to them. Maybe Denna has a connection to the Chandrin too.
2. Don't forget Caudicus could possibly still alive and we didn't learn the motive for wanting to kill the Maer. Caudicus knew a lot about the Lackless/Lockless family, but Kvothe didn't seem interested in learning those details when Caudicus offered. I feel like Kvothe of all people would have taken him up on that information if there was something in it for him (family history). Wouldn't a lockless door be just the thing that Kvothe would do anything to learn as much about given there is a door at the University that has captured his attention for several semesters?
3. I think professor Dahl is one of the secret Amire, maybe other professors at the University as well.
As someone who, quite literally, just finished the 2nd book today (and the first right around the start of the year...) one theory I'd like to put forth after watching a fair few of your videos is that the Cthaeh isn't evil.
Sure, from the immediate perspective (which much of the fae tend to have, as time doesn't have a whole lot of meaning to them) it seems horrible - huge war, countless people dying, world being shattered, etc. But when you look at things from a more grand stage - the reader's point of view, if you will - then it could be argued that the Cthaeh is acting in the best interest of the mortal realm.
In the story there's a fairly decent separation between the fae realm and the mortal realm; sure there's a few leaks here and there, but that doesn't do anything beyond dragging the odd farmer into Felurian's embrace or other 'once in a generation' sort of things.
The reason for this separation - the Cthaeh's meddling with Iax/Jax; what caused the creation war in the first place (assuming you go with the Cthaeh being the Tinker theory in the 'mortal' version of the story).
The separation did a decent job of cutting off the incredibly powerful, nigh immortal - and largely immoral - fae from the comparably powerless mortal realm. Save for Kvothe, how easy was it for Felurian to entrap people? If she were to want to do so, how many could she have pulled away; and how may other fae could do the same - have done the same?
What if the catastrophe that Kvothe caused was one that, while immediately very bloody and terrible (civil war and all that), was one that set the mortal world on the path to proper 'rightness', separation from the fae entirely (possibly magic to boot) and is the thing that changes the fantastical world into a more 'realistic' one that's on the right path?
Admittedly, I still need to (sledge)hammer through lots of these thoughts, and go through the books a few more times to pick up on some details that I almost certainly have missed, but I thought it was curious enough to share after listening to a fair bit of your stuff.
Cheers.
Thank for the video! Great stuff, as always. ❤️
@Captured in words. You did it excellent work!
Something not mentioned is that if Kvothe and Lanre/Haliax are the son's of Iax, that would mean they are half brother's. A potential other interpretation is that Haliax needs to be present for the door to be opened
If Doors of Stone ever comes out.
My passion for these books is really fading recently, starting to belive book 3 just isn't coming. Really do hope I am proved wrong though and all the recent talk or rothfuss being a conman are proved wrong. Here hoping 🙏
Most people - TGIF!
Me - TGINVFCIWD! (Thank God it's new video from captured in words day)
Kvothe was given a ring not for wearing by his aunt at the end of the Alveron saga, although i like the ring of stones better as Kvothe sees that in a dream after his parents die and is controlled by his sleeping mind
I'm on team moon rocks. Repeatedly in the books, Kvoathe mentions that he'd "sooner steal a piece of the moon" before doing something, then promptly doing that thing. He's going to steal the moon rocks. 🤷🏼♀️ Why? No clue. What that has to do with anything? No clue. But it seems obvious to me that he is going to steal a piece of the moon somehow.
If we assume the Lackless door is the four plate door the phrase a candle without light might also refer to the incident in the library. Candles might not only be forbidden because of the flames. They might also play a key role in opening up the four plate door.
I always thought the name not for wearing is the name of the wind
Ok hear me out I think the lackless family is the descendent of jax and the lackless box holds a piece of the moons name
A bit change of topic but something I beign noticing in your videos. An Important text for the viewer is displayed on screen for just a few couple of seconds and you swap to the camera showing you talk, it would be better having more time to read the text since we still have time because you do not change to another important scene but just your face in front of the camera. If you leave the text more time you do not have to change the script or the lenght of the video. Same happens with text displayed around your camera, you pull it out quickly from screen with no reason, the text could be on screen while you continue talking. Since these are videos with analysis and showing evidence, I think is important to have the information available and not having to pause or even rewind for a text. This is also important because the text appears in different parts of the screen with different styles and sizes.
You make great videos, too good for the KKC.
Do a video on Rothfuss taking +500k in donations for a charity goal and not releasing it. He didn't do a charity stream this year, something he had put a lot of time into for over a decade because all people would be asking about is the scam from last year. Your videos are great and your theories will be better on whatever Rothfuss puts out in 2030 or whenever he gets done. A great fantasy series whose author went down a dark road.
For real, at this point, PR needs to let the fans finish the third book by themselves. Everyone would like that ^^
I'm not sure what is behind the Lackless door, but I don't think it is Velaritas.
I am convinced that what's in the Lackless box is the piece of obsidian Selitos used to " gain a better sight"
Thank you as always for these in-depth videos! It makes me understand the lore and theories even better.
--------A Theory easily proven wrong. The Cthaeh does not Lie. "She held up much better than you're FATHER, with all his begging and blubbering" ------------------Cthaeh
ALWAYS REMEMBER IAX LOCKED BEHIND THE DOORS OF STONE
One thing that just popped into my mind: Arliden was writing a song about the Chandrian. What if Abenthy didn't just happen upon the truth, but was sent by the Masters of the University who are secretly Amyr? What if, in some way, the Chandrian and Amyr are the same or actually just working together to some end? The troupe are killed just after Abenthy leaves. Maybe he had decided that Arliden and Laurian knew too much, and called that Chandrian?
Awesome work as always!!👌🏻
What do you think of the Denna is the moon theory. A video about that would be fun.
lol i noticed you are pronouncing Caudicus differently in this video, the way you were saying it before just sounded funny
Does anyone know if Rothfuss has ever commented on fan-theories? Are we close? Is the reason that it's taken so long to Wright book 3 because people keep making extra connections that even rothfuss didn't make but finds good so he has te rewrite parts of the book and then newer better theories emerge and this goes on and on?
11:00 I think Kvothe is a son who brings the blood: 1) genetically if he is the lack less heir 2) and could this be literal for his test to get into the school in Ademre when he presents his upturned hand to Shehyn?
This is great!
I love these videos
7 things to open the door, 7 Of them, Chandrian, connected? I wrote before watching the full video, so you might mention it.