Years ago, I heard a definition of forgiveness that I love and adhere to: Forgiveness is not forgetting because we can't do that. Instead, Forgiveness is remembering the wrong that was done to you and choosing to act with love in spite of it.
Truer words never spoken. Learned this lesson the hard way. As Orion says in this video, it takes both parties to heal a betrayal to stay in relationship. Believe the other who demonstrates he doesn't want to do that, no matter what you want to believe to the contrary.
@@rizzed_out_puppy I've almost lost my life thinking that, until I learned about the dark triad (narcissism, sociopathy and psychopaths). Knowledge is power. Those manipulators play games for years, giving just enough hope to stay with them, but oh the tragedy that happens behind the veil that they don't want you to see. Your intuition never lies, I've escaped and have been drug free since I don't need to numb myself from the abuse anymore. :)
Th paper folding analogy hit home. Being betrayed against did last a lifetime, although I was happy in the relationship an element of distrust remained for +45 years.
That’s good advice but if you been betrayed by some you love and trust. It’s going to be hard to open up and trust again. It’s possible for sure just with time. Once you get pass the shock and hurt.
Forgive and forget is the person who committed the transgression looking to run from the accountability and responsibility of what they did. They want forgiveness and for the past to be in the past? Walk away or you will be back in the hurt locker. Again.
This is great advice. Long ago, I was living with a woman, we were going through a tough stretch, and she ended up cheating with a guy for 5 weeks before I eventually found out--it required an intricate series of lies to keep me in the dark that long, since we lived together, but she was able to do it. When I found out, I moved out, and after a month, she begged me to move back in--I was feeling insecure, pride was hurt, felt like I had to prove myself, and I gave it a second chance, and it was a disaster. I just could never quite get over what happened nor could I ever really trust her again, and for her part, she felt bad about it but really didn't want to do the work she needed to do. Lesson learned--my advice, for what it's worth. Let it go, learn from it, become better in the ways you need to and start fresh where you don't have that hurt and distrust as part of the fabric of the relationship.
Then that comes from a scarcity mindset. You're afraid of losing something the next time. Its a bit for control. Its a way to tell yourself: "Hey.. these things happen.. and it'll hurt". You're looking into the future to deal with a problem of the past. You can heal from it in three ways: - Be honest with yourself, accept it really (you might have been weak or blind, you've now learned that wisdom in the form of a 'voice') - Let it go (A specific person betrayed you, not an entire group. Make sure you don't generalise.) - Setup protective behaviour; don't think about it, but deal with it as it happens. Good luck! I hope you can shake your feeling of betrayal. Not everyone is out to get you. Besides.. sometimes betrayal is a consequence of the betrayer being incompetent. Give them the opportunity to make it up before you move on. The world is too small for 7 billion people to always just move on. Sometimes healing means strengthening yourself.
Honest thoughts, thanks. My personal boundary is one step more extreme than "betrayal is final": if she admits to cheating on nearly every boyfriend she's ever had, it is nothing but narcissism on your part to assume you are the exception--she will do it again. Made that mistake before
Thanks for your honesty. I wish this was not true. But I'm afraid it is true: once a cheat; always a cheater. There is something selfish about them I dunno@@bradleywesterford3587
I feel that pain. Sometimes life is a game of who you put your faith in, b/c it always requires faith (trust). Wish I would have listened to my intuition more@@bradleywesterford3587
@@bradleywesterford3587 I feel genuine empathy--I've been a sucker too. And I don't feel like it was all "all if fair in love n war" type of thing...like certain chicks I've been with could have been far more fair (just), far more forward-facing and honest than they were and that shit is on them...naughty ladies, shoulda treated me better for sure
Thanks. This is helping me heal and move on. Without sincere repentance what is there then to build on? Nothing short of that is good enough. I realise that I can forgive her jumping on another guy, since I had not been clear in my feelings and needs, which caused her a bunch of anxiety, fundamentally a dishonesty within myself which transfered into the relationship. However what I can't forgive without a sincere apology is that she lied to me after leaving, saying they were "just friends", that still eats me up inside, and am not sure if I can get over. It eats me up seeing women flaunt their sexuality and fuck around so much,when expecting romance and loyalty. I fundamentally don't trust women as they want to be seen as innocent, then display selective memory and definitions of intimate relations. I think dishonesty runs deep in society. Happy faces that aren't happy, provocative appeal which isn't innocent. An honest hooker in my view has more integrity than a dishonest partner. Are marriages for love or money? Money, energy, power. I hate being cynical, I want to trust. I want mutuality. Love is unselfish however but cannot flourish in a stagnant or unsafe environment. Unclear boundaries, definitions and emotions create trouble. Be brutally honest with oneself (which is hard if not properly intuned with emotions) and establish boundaries ASAP.
Problem is of course - many betrayers continue to betray and so there is continual wounding And when we dont want to be a victim we endeavour to do all we can to heal amd overcome but nothing works Yet we dont want to leave either because of pain to the family or enmeshed finances Or many other complicated reasons It feels like a no win situation
Betrayal of trust is just about the worst thing someone can do. As a man, my integrity is my foundation in life, but my experience with women is that they can’t comprehend what integrity is and how to appreciate a man who has it. Even when you don’t want her back and move on, high odds the woman is too cowardly to even apologize knowing she is in the wrong. I hate the fact that it has to be this way, but reality is harsh and bridges have to be burned sometimes and it’s often with people you thought would be in your life a long time
That is exactly how I feel about men. I guess God doesn’t pair people with integrity often. Which explain why only 20% of couples find real happiness. Trusting again is so hard after the heart is broken by the person you loved and trusted.
@jacdi5354 98% chance you are the one without integrity and the men are just responding to you or not responding, according to their degree of femininity.
@@jacdi5354 Ecclesiastes 7:27-28 KJV Behold, this have I found, saith the preacher, counting one by one, to find out the account: [28] Which yet my soul seeketh, but I find not: one man among a thousand have I found; but a woman among all those have I not found. You fail.
well done here Orion, in about 6min you've described a central issue in life. I think there's a roll of dice here. you can either choose to repair the relationship with a known traitor (like de-creasing the paper) or start a new one with someone you can't tell whether they're going to be a traitor or not. what to do? I'll say be resilient. expect betrayal. be able to survive it. even if you wish to make the effort to repair you can then survive it again and then definitely not revisit that one. go for a new one? great, only you won't know they'll betray you until they do. the answer is the same- be resilient 😎
Wonderful. I do think it’s best to move on. I heard somewhere that relationships are meant to teach us a lesson, not keep us comfortable. After betrayal, I don’t think it’s bad to evaluate the lessons learned about yourself, your triggers, your healthy or unhealthy reactions, and just move on. Do we really trust or respect as much as we did after a betrayal?
People do bad things for two reasons 1. Because they want to , and 2. Because they can. People cheat because they have the option to do so, and because in at least one respect, that new option appears to them to be better than the one they currently have. It is just human nature - and such temptation is more both present and easier in our modern, interconnected world than it ever has been before. Conclusion - always consider your own future options and be prepared to cut ties without remorse once a relationship has run its natural course.
This was a great explanation. I would like to add that if you’ve been betrayed, the forgiveness you’re trying to achieve isn’t really for the other person; it’s for yourself. Any feelings you hold on to aren’t hurting the other person nearly as much as they’re hurting you - it’s important for you to let them go. I say do the work to forgive (for yourself) and only then decide if you want to continue with this relationship.
have gone through this before. After betrayal we stayed together for years, it was great at times, but it was also hell. You can forgive, but the pain will always be there, and you will not forget.
Hello sorry for asking... I'm entering the second year and is as you described. Can you tell me how many years you have with your partner after the betrayal? Any advice? It's so soon for me and I really feel like Gollum. Some days I want to keep going and sometimes I feel like throwing all through the f*cking toilet to hell.
@zombielandiii2711 I'm at week 2, we haven't even had a chance to visit a councilor yet. I have forgiven my wife for sex, because that is all it is. What i am having issues with is truth. The timelines don't sense, I had this fuck in my house, I feed him, he carved pumpkins with my children. I even confronted them before anything started. Told my wife I trust you but not him. I told him I trust my wife but not you. My wife insisted she didn't like him that way, just an old high school friend that dropped back into her life. She said it happened once and she stopped it mid way because it was a mistake. But he sexts her afterwards, he cones to my house again. If our friend hadn't of shown me the proof it might still be going on? Least that's what I think. She says no but can't explain the sexts or why he still came to our house. I need ducking answers! Thank you for letting me vent!
Betrayals are especially difficult to heal when a woman does the betraying. Men and women cheat for different reasons, and a woman cheating is much more likely to end a relationship, even if the couple goes to therapy.
It’s refreshing to hear this reality about betrayal and the effort and commitment to (only possibly) heal it. Thank you. For once someone finally speaking the truth about betrayal.
Hell no. As a man, that is super disrespectful. A woman can’t love a man she doesn’t respect. All I want as a man in a relationship, is loyalty. You don’t get purity in this modern era, so loyalty is the new purity. If a woman ever disrespects you, doesn’t have to even be full blown cheating-trash her-the relationship will fail eventually. Do not accept any woman on a exclusive basis that is not on your program, all about your future and life together. You are dealing with extremely damaged people for the most part-it’s not likely you will even find a decent partner. I have-but it’s bc I stick to these rules about respect
Well reasoned, executable, well defined components of a hard to demystify situation. Solid advice also to help you realize when somebody is using a mistaken action against you.
I like the approach provided in "Surviving an Affair" which was written by a different psychologist, Willard F. Harley. It's similar, in that he agrees that it's toxic for the betrayed spouse to use the event to guilt the other person. It's different, in that he believes both people should be completely transparent to the extent that either can check the other person's phones. He says he's seen the approach work over a thousand times as long as people follow all the instructions.
The situation is complex. She felt betrayed in the beginning even though I took accountability and never repeated that same offense. She never forgave me for it like she said she did… and 6years later boom! 💥 Infidelity! And no remorse. “You messed my head up” was the words that stuck in my head
My insecure and jealous ex destroyed our relationship this way. Baseless accusations and recurring fights. At one point I told her that if she truly believed that I cheated, she should pick up and leave. That shut her up for a while, but her paranoia didn't stop and manifested in other ways like being hypervigilant of me "checking out" other women. Meanwhile, gaslighting me to check some women out but not others. Basically, she wanted to dictate who I could check out. Quarantine was our "happiest" and quietest time which I allowed me to make sense of things and rightfully break up with her. Things were happy only as long as there was no social contact with others...
If you are being accused of something you didn’t do by your spouse and it’s destroying your marriage then I suggest lining up a polygraph test. I checked into it and it’s about $700. Worth every penny to clear your name and save your marriage. Assuming you really didn’t cheat of course.
Excellent summary of the responsibilities of both parties after a betrayal. Too often I've seen the injured party sink into righteous martyrdom, using their victim status as a retaliatory weapon. Your advice is spot on if both parties want a healthy relationship going forward.
When somwone is craving for freedom, don't suffocate him in a relationship. Letting go is mercy, no matter if he gets offended, and doesn't realise, that you make it with love for him, and for both of you. No matter how many years, how many children....etc. Take courage if you love him. But do it in an acceptable way and time, which can minimase the pain. If you are a snail, how doctor thought us, do it slowly, as a snail. Agree in time, within this or that will be done. Be honest, but not cruel. The responsibility for the damage is mostly shared. We can point our fingers, but what is the use of it, to make him our slaves as a punishment? Love is freedom, not a prison. One can only love freely.
I never asked for transparency. If I trust, I trust completely. I never knew his passwords, PIN kodes, anything, and I never needed them. I respected his privacy. Although I was completely transparent all the time. I gave him access to everything, I always told him everything, I had nothing to hide. Did he appreciate it? I thought he would some day, but he never said anything. If I start a new, I want to trust again. I don't want to check anything. I don't want to be suspicious. It makes life hell. I feel anyway if something is wrong. If someone can't be trusted, I don't even start.
Hey, just found your channel through Tribe of Men. Really appreciate the honesty and how unbiased you are. No choosing sides, just telling it how it is. Side note: when I use to make vids, at one point I used the same thumbnail for a series I did and simply changed the number as I went through the episodes. If you can get a few more thumbnails that differ the one you use now, I think the algorithm will help push your vids. The good thing is you change the text in the white box so that's helps.
So this video seems to have addressed betrayal in marriages or other long-term romantic type relationships? There's also betrayal in business, military affairs, close non-romantic friendships, employer/employee relationships, and more I'm sure. One very difficult aspect of betrayal (delivery to an enemy, abandonment in time of need) is that this often occurs during unusual circumstances that may never occur again. How do you trust someone going forward when in (this situation) they betrayed you, and (this situation) will likely never occur again?
Looking back over the years there were many smaller moments of betrayal leading up to the cheating betrayal. He was always betraying me . That is the kind of man he is. My betrayer, not my protector. That is simply his nature.
I'd also like to add that there has to be genuine repentance on the part of the transgressor. I've experienced betrayal in a friendship, not a romantic relationship, but it's true that it's easier to start over with someone new than to heal. Although I didn't cut off complete contact even though I considered doing so for a long time, I've changed her status from confidant to a distant acquaintance in a group. The reason is she isn't really sorry even though she has apologized, but it was the "I'm sorry if you felt hurt" apology, not for what she did. She thought I was being dramatic and bitter and holding a grudge. (The situation was that she is an enabler to a narcissist who bullied me (and others). She thinks the narcissist just has problems and that I'm actually the one at fault for "triggering" the narcissist's rage/outbursts/attempts to control others. When I explained it was abuse, the friend actually said to me, "You just THINK that is abuse" and "I never hold a grudge against others.") She knows we're not close anymore as I no longer tell her things and she's been very nice and good to me, but I don't engage closely with her. And even if I want her close friendship again, I don't if she's not genuinely sorry that she took the narcissist's side.
I believe you made the right decision. This former friend sounds like a flying monkey. What's interesting is whether she'll come running to you when she gets burned by the narcissist. These enablers are often worse than the narcissist themselves. I'm sorry you went through that but I'm glad you stood up for yourself! Two of my in-laws are narcissists; they've tried to destroy my marriage six times so your story is very satisfying to hear.
I don't think it is as much about taking sides as it is about being heard and feeling understood which we all want. She may understand the transgressor on a deeper level, and thereby make "excuses" to try and explain their behavior, which they may have reasons for, but the fact is that you felt hurt and need acknowledgement of that to feel understood and have trust. The behavior and boundaries need to be clearly spelled out.
Very helpful. The only way to repair is read the reality and to start on new modus vivendi on new basis. In my experience, such a process definitely needs a long term accompaniment by a neutral mediator. No one can be judge and party at the same time and at times family life needs a referee.
I found out my so-called wife never got a divorce and then tried to sneak one in after our child was born. She wasn’t able to complete filing in time before our marriage ceremony … and so we’re not married in the eyes of the law. I paid for her doctorate and many other things … Feels like Betrayal
This is the one thing I’ve always questioned. Also the one reason I’m in the fence about marriage. Because if someone cheats on me my immediate response is to leave I see no reconciliation after that because I’m not a cheater. So idk how ppl do it 😭 love isn’t enough for me.
This is a subject that is different for different people - for example, many couples have open marriages, where external relationships are mutually tolerated. Also 'moving on' is a lot harder than it seems, especially when there are children involved, but what I have found is that even when the cheating has been grudgingly 'forgiven', the memory of the cheat never goes away for the wronged party and they will always resent the transgressor, even decades thereafter. This will just poison the relationship and make life miserable for both parties for as long as they stay together. Forgiveness has to either total and unconditional, or none at all. You can't half-forgive.
@@tancreddehauteville764 because open relationships are transactional by nature. You don’t love each other unconditionally. Simply put, if your partner wants to end the open relationship and go exclusive, would you change too? You are together because you are getting supply be it monetary or security whilst looking for emotional support and sex elsewhere. That’s just using and abusing your partner..
@@tancreddehauteville764 yes never said it wasn’t the case.. as for open relationships, it’s all transactional. Both parties are abusing each other in some shape or form. Both parties would end the relationship if they decide to go monogamous with each other. So it’s not true love or unconditional love. So what’s the point? Just go your separate ways
What I have learned is some people just don’t know how to coexist with a partner. Birthing order, trauma from their past, acknowledged or denied. Find out who can coexist with you and all your baggage and be mindful. Don’t talk about being mindful. Don’t explain why you are mindful just do it Once you talk about it the other person will almost always think about it and wonder if you are being honest.
I experienced an emotional affair by my partner. She admitted to and apologized for inappropriate talk with the other guy but never to an affair, and her apology was always mixed with deflecting, defensiveness, and blaming me for my own hurt due to my perception of what transpired and for reading her private messages.
This made so much sense. When I cheated I confessed everything. Answered every question. When she cheated, she lied every step of the way, unless confronted with facts I found. She even withheld info that I repeatedly asked for, saying it didn't matter...no wonder I was incapable of actually being able to try and forgive.
This is what gets me. There was no apology or recognition of my feelings. She just got angry that I was questioning her about a betrayal. Angry and defensive. So, we never worked through our problem because she couldn't face it honestly with me. Trust, once broken is difficult if not impossible to repair. Especially when the wronged party isn't allowed to share how hurt they felt by the betrayer.
very painful time; it took me five years all together to heal from a betrayal ; it was 8 months after I found out we separated, and the way it happened was almost as painful as the betrayal; but I found out that women could as cruel as man and children and even more; the psychologist being a woman probably? explained to my ex the eventual outcome but never did it to me; I think that she was very biased too, because it happened to herself too sometime in the past; so all the odds were against me, but I healed and gained trust and love back; I wish I new more and earlier about such things in life but I did not; TIME though and knowledge was the two very helpful things in my case
It's never the same whether you're the transgressed or transgressor and we all have been both at different times to different people. Either way its just not the same and certainly doesn't improve with time. The only way it might work is if one developed amnesia. Never try to put the toothpaste back into the tube.
@@StrongBodymindandspirit Especially for them. They are the most confused about everything unfortunately. Required forgiveness is evil. Faith has led so many down the path of destruction.
She betrayed me by not communicating for months how she felt. She lied, and told me that she was happy and loved me. In reality she was pulling away. All the issues could have been fixed, but she held everything in. She didn't communicate. She then blindsided me 7 weeks ago. The woman I was going to marry. The love of my life. Betrayed me. Idk if I'll ever be ok again.
That's a choice for the betrayed, not the therapist. You can always say: 'hey therapist. stop saying that I should reconcile because I really killed the betrayer inside of me, so stop.
This 100%. Especially these days. She would never show me her phone, even when I asked. She exploded with rage when I asked her to show me her phone. Said all the typical things "it's my privacy. You don't trust me." No, I don't trust you. You were chatting with someone who you used to a few around with. But I'm the asshole for aski g to see the phone, see what you have been texting each other. I shut down after that. It was difficult being intimate with her after that, and that is what she said needed in our relationship.
Unfortunately I went through it with an older woman who seemed to define goodness and loyalty. She complained often of her ex cheating on her. So I went out of my way to be honest and transparent. After eight months I had strong suspicions. She looked me in the eye and told me a a series of lies. I accepted them, believed her. I was also madly in love with her and had she done what I thought, it would have devastated me. Two years went by and she became increasingly disrespectful eventually I moved out. I suggested counseling but she refused and put all the blame on me. Which I took hard. The person she dated after me was a trashy crack addict who stole 10k in just four months despite my warning her that he was no good. She took him to court and won 10k so I was right. It showed me she had no standards and no respect for me. Her next move was to marry a man 20 years older and a million dollars richer. She treats him respectfully from what I’ve seen and her lifestyle went from Low to upper middle class overnight. That’s when I started going through old emails. And dates of times I’d been suspicious as well as noticed a friend of hers on Facebook who had quite a lot of her attention going back as far back as us. She confessed finally to cheating with him repeatedly while my dad was dying before we lived together. She refused to apologize or be decent and just blocked me when I asked her how and why she thought that was something a 46 year woman does to a 36 yr old whose father is dying and loved you. And was told I was loved to. She disgusts me now. The hatred is consuming and I’m angry at myself for being such a poor judge of character. I never even saw any shame or regret or tears. She’d just used me. One last younger man before she married for money. I’m planning to move out of town so I never have to see her again. The lying and cheating was bad but the lack of apology or even asking for my forgiveness…I don’t have good words to say about her. I’d dated far younger women most of my life and made a mistake in judging her by her words not her actions. Pretty sure she has a personality disorder but am more concerned about why I accepted her bs. I’ve remained single and still haven’t found a way to trust women. Until I have a lot of money my feeling is history will just repeat and I’ll be used till someone better looking or richer comes along. Not all women are this way but the older I get the more I see the pattern and how prevalent it is for people to say they are one thing. While demonstrating they aren’t for real. When you’re not in love it’s very easy to see.
You moved out. Why did you feel the need to stay in contact with her, go through old emails etc.etc? You should have ghosted her and move on with your life. Women never apologize, Orion also has a video on this. When I broke up with my ex LTR I completely cut contact and moved to another continent to start over. Read unplugged alpha by Rich Cooper.
Walk away. It's not even fair not to because everyone needs to have happiness as a priority, both parties. Unless of course children are involved then its complicated.
The TH-camr who goes by “AMS” I believe has a great philosophy for him receiving value after she the transgressor has violated the trust and would like to restore trust
I very much wanted this back when I had strong feelings for my ex, however they did't come to the table. I've more or less come to terms with what my own shortcomings are/were and what theirs are/were. I still have love for them and wish them the best, but am more clear about what I want, and what I won't accept. Hope I can be clear and insightful moving forward.
I love your content! You have helped me realize much more about human motivation with your videos, Thank you for bringing your expertise to the world Dr. Taraban
I was in this situation and I know what this plague is. Is about obosite of validation, îs like loosing the șelf value, speaking as smv. So, the first instinct îs the regain your value and this guide you to go outside. Only the non confident ones will consider a conceling becouse by folowing this way, your atractioness will even get lower, so even if your partner will accept to play the negative role, the atraction between you two will be fucking zero, and this can not be negociated, neither claimed. I think, ask your genitals. Will they get hot ? Will you get aroused ? And if yes, then enjoy, but if not , move on.
My genitals literally cannot even be attracted to her anymore because she betrayed me. When I think of her, I don't think of sex. I just feel worriness, depression and betrayal.
As much as I love money, there is one thing I value more than all the money in the world, and that is trust. So if I'm in a relationship with a person and they betry me. It's over that person will never hear from me again. There's no need to apologize. I'm out! The only person I'd forgive is my father because he's my flesh and blood. I often think of him and wish him the best wherever he's at. Poor soul. But anyone else can go F themselves.
Seems to me that women will almost NEVER be willing to relinquish manipulative emotional blackmail. They just enjoy it too much. It will never how much better you are after fixing your issue. Women just revel in bringing up an "I told you so" over and over again. They love it. They love that power more than they'll ever love you.
Very interesting and helpful. How would the approach differ when a child has been betrayed by a parent. As in that case moving on and strarting over with a new parent isn't possible and the perpetrator has much more leverage over the victim?
You can't ever have a different biological parent, but you can choose your family as an adult. At that point, any leverage the perpetrator has is psychological and can be working through.
As a parent of such a child ( betrayed by the other parent) I can say that although the perpetrator is willing to jump through all the hoops, the child (19 now) has no inclination of giving any space. Unfortunately. I think it will require many years of “ adulthood” to genuinely forgive and create a new relationship with the parent
Wester culture may not be familiar with this: if a villain slap on a man’s right face, the man sides his head for a moment to compose himself calmly, then the man offers the villain his left face ( for the villain to slap ) …. And why? The scholarly philosophy states: ‘ it is to agitate the villain’s sense of shame. ‘ But a villain is a villain that such philosophy could never work.
Dr. Taraban, I'm curious as to why you would equate forgiveness of betrayal with "never speaking of it again". Forgiveness and reconciliation are two separate entities. I can forgive without reconciliation, but I can't reconcile without forgiveness. Statistically, 86% of couples who self-report as talking about the betrayal "a lot" were still together at the 5 year mark as opposed to those who didn't talk about the betrayal. In my experience and others I know, more talking, not less is the road to healing.
Hello Dr, thanks for this. Can you please give some advice on what to do or how to deal with, if i have to stay with the perpetrator a little longer before i have the possibility to leave. This is very difficult for me to handle but i have to for various reasons. Really hope and will be very thankful if you can share some advice.
What about outside a romantic context in which one has competing obligations? What should the betrayed do, how should the betrayed see the betrayer if the betrayer simply had to choose one obligation over another?
I can forgive my partner of 20+ years of marriage, although I cannot forget. It now seems that I'm paying more than the (may I I say) guilty person. Maybe I'm just too late scared to leave?
interesting.. in my situation i don't even do somethings wrong, but the trauma from the past makes the girl thinks i will do bad things in the future. wdyt about this situation?
Asian people demonstrate endurance due to their culture heritage. But aggression towards such tolerance must meet consequences for the sake of its owe good and good for many others.
Maybe this is a fool's errand, and a sign that the relationship is wholly unsalvageable, but if there are repeated betrayals which are only brought up when all pleas for cessation have failed to show that recidivism has occurred, is that toxic?
There is a problem I'm having. How do I work out the damage and not project it onto a new partner? She has never hurt me yet I cannot stop seeing signs that aren't there all the time.
It was an error to start a new relationship to Begin with if you won't have yet overcome problems of the past. You're contaminating the new one, with residues from the Last one. Now if you're there already, focus all your thoughts in her and the new moments. Instantly suppress any bad thoughts with a kiss, a hug or remember a beautiful moment with her. ( All of this cant be for your convenience to forget, instead they have to be acts of joy and genuine love) Whatever you do, dont tell her that you're struggling trying to forget your past. She will instantly recent and distrust you and she's going to be right to do so. Respect your new partner.
A man's betrayal happens in the overwhelming majority of times due to the biological need for variety. A woman's betrayal, on the other end, happens typically when she looks down on you and will often involve feelings. If a woman cheats on you, and you're lucky enough to catch it, be aware that it may not have been the first time and for sure it's not the last time. A relationship is simply too weak to go anywhere once a betrayal occurs, particularly if the woman was the perpetrator.
This is my version of your words, for those who would like to understand it from a different perspective (I added some of my own in it): In essence, men tend to be more focused on opportunities, while women prioritize values. It's crucial to understand that this doesn't negate the fact that both genders have values and opportunities; rather, it highlights our inherent tendencies. Its important to keep in mind that there are people (like me) who do not follow the natural pattern of gender expression, and may express themselves as masculine (opportunities) or feminine (values) while internally being the exact opposite. For example; what opportunity did I create by sending this message? Or what value am I trying to answer if I'm not chasing opportunities with this action? Its entirely possible you're a woman who loves creating opportunities, while you may be a man who just loves to hold and nurture a baby. Its unusual to see the extreme expression of one gender in that of the other, but the thought processes are there regardless. Unfortunately, many people struggle to see things from the other's perspective, hindering effective communication and collaboration. This stems from our natural inclination towards either opportunity or value orientation, making our priorities differ. The key here is that the difference of prioritisation also causes you to chase a different environment or presentation, and thus you get exposed to different skills and stereotypes. Ergo, it is likely that if you conform to a certain expression, that you indeed have a complementary thought pattern, not a deviating one. This is btw why neuro-divergence is difficult to deal with; you cannot tell how a thought or action deviates from the values you are exposed to. When a woman doesn't get what she wants, she perceives it as a lack of opportunity to provide value. Consequently, she might blame the man, deeming him low in value. On the other hand, when a man faces a shortfall, it's often a lack of perceived value, leading him to seek opportunities elsewhere. This distinction in mindset is rooted in different brain regions, causing varied thought processes. Men, facing a onset loss of value, may quickly move on, driven by a desire to safeguard opportunities by holding on for dear life to the values he has internalised. Conversely, women, confronted with a scarcity of opportunities, seek different avenues to showcase their values. If unsuccessful, they may become nurturing and open, attempting to create opportunities for themselves by providing value without a direct need for getting anything back. This difference in approach can result in men becoming more visible when they lose opportunities and women becoming more open to compensate for a lack of opportunities. In times of distress, men may close themselves off to protect their perceived value, while women may open up to create opportunities, even if it leads to a certain level of delusion. The absence of clear boundaries in opportunities can result in a loss of value or invisibility. This intricate interplay between opportunities and values influences how individuals cope and interact. Its unfortunate that we're not more free with sharing our values to one another.. for all our opportunities are limited by our resources, but our values has no such limitation.
I work as a couples therapist. The idea of a betrayed partner enjoying dominance and a power differential as a reason for not letting a betrayal go, while spoken with authority, is disconnected from a neurobiological understanding of trauma. There is no transactional benefit to not "letting go"- it's rather about a need to survive and not be tricked or deceived again that lends to the power differential. There is some amount of projection happening in this video- it's not based in research or the bulk of clinical work with couples experiencing effects of betrayal trauma.
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Betrayal is the most damaging development that can happen to a relationship. There is no turning back from a break of faith.
Years ago, I heard a definition of forgiveness that I love and adhere to: Forgiveness is not forgetting because we can't do that. Instead, Forgiveness is remembering the wrong that was done to you and choosing to act with love in spite of it.
@@btwthblood I needed to hear this today. Thankyou
You will save years of your life if you follow this: "When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time." Maya Angelou. Blessings xo
Truer words never spoken. Learned this lesson the hard way. As Orion says in this video, it takes both parties to heal a betrayal to stay in relationship. Believe the other who demonstrates he doesn't want to do that, no matter what you want to believe to the contrary.
People can change
@@rizzed_out_puppy I've almost lost my life thinking that, until I learned about the dark triad (narcissism, sociopathy and psychopaths). Knowledge is power. Those manipulators play games for years, giving just enough hope to stay with them, but oh the tragedy that happens behind the veil that they don't want you to see. Your intuition never lies, I've escaped and have been drug free since I don't need to numb myself from the abuse anymore. :)
@@rizzed_out_puppy of course they can change but they also can change new habits to old habits.
@@rizzed_out_puppy very few actually do.
Th paper folding analogy hit home. Being betrayed against did last a lifetime, although I was happy in the relationship an element of distrust remained for +45 years.
"An element of distrust remained for 45 years" is NOT happiness imo.
"element", not the complete distrust.
You said my favorite words, 'pushing them away and starting over is easier'. These sick bastards just says, 'forgive and forget'.
Huh?
That’s good advice but if you been betrayed by some you love and trust. It’s going to be hard to open up and trust again. It’s possible for sure just with time. Once you get pass the shock and hurt.
Forgive and forget is the person who committed the transgression looking to run from the accountability and responsibility of what they did. They want forgiveness and for the past to be in the past? Walk away or you will be back in the hurt locker. Again.
This is great advice. Long ago, I was living with a woman, we were going through a tough stretch, and she ended up cheating with a guy for 5 weeks before I eventually found out--it required an intricate series of lies to keep me in the dark that long, since we lived together, but she was able to do it. When I found out, I moved out, and after a month, she begged me to move back in--I was feeling insecure, pride was hurt, felt like I had to prove myself, and I gave it a second chance, and it was a disaster. I just could never quite get over what happened nor could I ever really trust her again, and for her part, she felt bad about it but really didn't want to do the work she needed to do. Lesson learned--my advice, for what it's worth. Let it go, learn from it, become better in the ways you need to and start fresh where you don't have that hurt and distrust as part of the fabric of the relationship.
I feel like betrayal stays with you, like forever. No matter who it is done by. Always in the back of your mind.
Then that comes from a scarcity mindset. You're afraid of losing something the next time. Its a bit for control. Its a way to tell yourself: "Hey.. these things happen.. and it'll hurt". You're looking into the future to deal with a problem of the past.
You can heal from it in three ways:
- Be honest with yourself, accept it really (you might have been weak or blind, you've now learned that wisdom in the form of a 'voice')
- Let it go (A specific person betrayed you, not an entire group. Make sure you don't generalise.)
- Setup protective behaviour; don't think about it, but deal with it as it happens.
Good luck! I hope you can shake your feeling of betrayal. Not everyone is out to get you. Besides.. sometimes betrayal is a consequence of the betrayer being incompetent. Give them the opportunity to make it up before you move on. The world is too small for 7 billion people to always just move on. Sometimes healing means strengthening yourself.
Absolutely right!
Honest thoughts, thanks. My personal boundary is one step more extreme than "betrayal is final": if she admits to cheating on nearly every boyfriend she's ever had, it is nothing but narcissism on your part to assume you are the exception--she will do it again. Made that mistake before
same. she always swore that she had 'learned her lesson' and 'didn't want to be that kind of person' but eventually she cheated on me as well.
Thanks for your honesty. I wish this was not true. But I'm afraid it is true: once a cheat; always a cheater. There is something selfish about them I dunno@@bradleywesterford3587
I feel that pain. Sometimes life is a game of who you put your faith in, b/c it always requires faith (trust). Wish I would have listened to my intuition more@@bradleywesterford3587
@@bradleywesterford3587 I feel genuine empathy--I've been a sucker too. And I don't feel like it was all "all if fair in love n war" type of thing...like certain chicks I've been with could have been far more fair (just), far more forward-facing and honest than they were and that shit is on them...naughty ladies, shoulda treated me better for sure
Thanks. This is helping me heal and move on. Without sincere repentance what is there then to build on? Nothing short of that is good enough.
I realise that I can forgive her jumping on another guy, since I had not been clear in my feelings and needs, which caused her a bunch of anxiety, fundamentally a dishonesty within myself which transfered into the relationship.
However what I can't forgive without a sincere apology is that she lied to me after leaving, saying they were "just friends", that still eats me up inside, and am not sure if I can get over. It eats me up seeing women flaunt their sexuality and fuck around so much,when expecting romance and loyalty. I fundamentally don't trust women as they want to be seen as innocent, then display selective memory and definitions of intimate relations. I think dishonesty runs deep in society. Happy faces that aren't happy, provocative appeal which isn't innocent.
An honest hooker in my view has more integrity than a dishonest partner.
Are marriages for love or money? Money, energy, power. I hate being cynical, I want to trust. I want mutuality. Love is unselfish however but cannot flourish in a stagnant or unsafe environment.
Unclear boundaries, definitions and emotions create trouble.
Be brutally honest with oneself (which is hard if not properly intuned with emotions) and establish boundaries ASAP.
Problem is of course - many betrayers continue to betray and so there is continual wounding
And when we dont want to be a victim we endeavour to do all we can to heal amd overcome but nothing works
Yet we dont want to leave either because of pain to the family or enmeshed finances
Or many other complicated reasons
It feels like a no win situation
I just can’t believe someone who I thought loved me thought it was okay to treat me that way.
Unfathomable 😢
Betrayal of trust is just about the worst thing someone can do. As a man, my integrity is my foundation in life, but my experience with women is that they can’t comprehend what integrity is and how to appreciate a man who has it. Even when you don’t want her back and move on, high odds the woman is too cowardly to even apologize knowing she is in the wrong. I hate the fact that it has to be this way, but reality is harsh and bridges have to be burned sometimes and it’s often with people you thought would be in your life a long time
He did a video about not apologizing. The in lieu of apology is quite interesting.
That is exactly how I feel about men. I guess God doesn’t pair people with integrity often. Which explain why only 20% of couples find real happiness. Trusting again is so hard after the heart is broken by the person you loved and trusted.
@jacdi5354 98% chance you are the one without integrity and the men are just responding to you or not responding, according to their degree of femininity.
@@jacdi5354
Ecclesiastes 7:27-28 KJV
Behold, this have I found, saith the preacher, counting one by one, to find out the account: [28] Which yet my soul seeketh, but I find not: one man among a thousand have I found; but a woman among all those have I not found.
You fail.
well done here Orion, in about 6min you've described a central issue in life. I think there's a roll of dice here. you can either choose to repair the relationship with a known traitor (like de-creasing the paper) or start a new one with someone you can't tell whether they're going to be a traitor or not.
what to do? I'll say be resilient.
expect betrayal. be able to survive it. even if you wish to make the effort to repair you can then survive it again and then definitely not revisit that one. go for a new one? great, only you won't know they'll betray you until they do. the answer is the same- be resilient 😎
Wonderful. I do think it’s best to move on. I heard somewhere that relationships are meant to teach us a lesson, not keep us comfortable. After betrayal, I don’t think it’s bad to evaluate the lessons learned about yourself, your triggers, your healthy or unhealthy reactions, and just move on. Do we really trust or respect as much as we did after a betrayal?
Great insight 💖
everything about betrayal is "fool me once shame on you , fool me twice shame on me"
that's all you need to learn.
If betrayal means girl cheating on you, then moving on means kickin her to the streets where shw belongs.
@@YellowKing1986 no one owes anyone anything
I think this can be generalised to any kind of relationship. I definitely am not going back. Onwards, upwards! 👍💪
People do bad things for two reasons 1. Because they want to , and 2. Because they can.
People cheat because they have the option to do so, and because in at least one respect, that new option appears to them to be better than the one they currently have. It is just human nature - and such temptation is more both present and easier in our modern, interconnected world than it ever has been before.
Conclusion - always consider your own future options and be prepared to cut ties without remorse once a relationship has run its natural course.
You can’t heal a betrayal …..resent STAYS DEEP AND FOREVER .
This was a great explanation. I would like to add that if you’ve been betrayed, the forgiveness you’re trying to achieve isn’t really for the other person; it’s for yourself. Any feelings you hold on to aren’t hurting the other person nearly as much as they’re hurting you - it’s important for you to let them go. I say do the work to forgive (for yourself) and only then decide if you want to continue with this relationship.
have gone through this before. After betrayal we stayed together for years, it was great at times, but it was also hell. You can forgive, but the pain will always be there, and you will not forget.
Hello sorry for asking... I'm entering the second year and is as you described. Can you tell me how many years you have with your partner after the betrayal? Any advice? It's so soon for me and I really feel like Gollum. Some days I want to keep going and sometimes I feel like throwing all through the f*cking toilet to hell.
@zombielandiii2711 I'm at week 2, we haven't even had a chance to visit a councilor yet. I have forgiven my wife for sex, because that is all it is. What i am having issues with is truth. The timelines don't sense, I had this fuck in my house, I feed him, he carved pumpkins with my children. I even confronted them before anything started. Told my wife I trust you but not him. I told him I trust my wife but not you. My wife insisted she didn't like him that way, just an old high school friend that dropped back into her life. She said it happened once and she stopped it mid way because it was a mistake. But he sexts her afterwards, he cones to my house again. If our friend hadn't of shown me the proof it might still be going on? Least that's what I think. She says no but can't explain the sexts or why he still came to our house. I need ducking answers! Thank you for letting me vent!
Betrayals are especially difficult to heal when a woman does the betraying. Men and women cheat for different reasons, and a woman cheating is much more likely to end a relationship, even if the couple goes to therapy.
Cheating is a non-negotiable for us and we've talked about it at length. Once a cheater, always a cheater. Cheaters are liars and cannot be trusted.
real
Men and women are different in so many ways. This is such an obvious truth.
Being a man is not an excuse for not having integrity, stop with the nonsense
@@jayak8217 Sorry you can't handle the psych research on infidelity. I'm quoting facts that have been known for 75 years.
It’s refreshing to hear this reality about betrayal and the effort and commitment to (only possibly) heal it.
Thank you. For once someone finally speaking the truth about betrayal.
Hell no. As a man, that is super disrespectful. A woman can’t love a man she doesn’t respect. All I want as a man in a relationship, is loyalty. You don’t get purity in this modern era, so loyalty is the new purity. If a woman ever disrespects you, doesn’t have to even be full blown cheating-trash her-the relationship will fail eventually. Do not accept any woman on a exclusive basis that is not on your program, all about your future and life together. You are dealing with extremely damaged people for the most part-it’s not likely you will even find a decent partner. I have-but it’s bc I stick to these rules about respect
Respect is each party’s efforts to each other. On going hate has to be stopped.
This channel should be seen much more, great content and easy to understand for opposite genders. Keep up the amazing job!
Well reasoned, executable, well defined components of a hard to demystify situation. Solid advice also to help you realize when somebody is using a mistaken action against you.
I like the approach provided in "Surviving an Affair" which was written by a different psychologist, Willard F. Harley. It's similar, in that he agrees that it's toxic for the betrayed spouse to use the event to guilt the other person. It's different, in that he believes both people should be completely transparent to the extent that either can check the other person's phones. He says he's seen the approach work over a thousand times as long as people follow all the instructions.
Every marriage should have full access to each others phones and anything else even if nobody has cheated. That’s common sense.
The situation is complex. She felt betrayed in the beginning even though I took accountability and never repeated that same offense. She never forgave me for it like she said she did… and 6years later boom! 💥 Infidelity! And no remorse. “You messed my head up” was the words that stuck in my head
My insecure and jealous ex destroyed our relationship this way.
Baseless accusations and recurring fights.
At one point I told her that if she truly believed that I cheated, she should pick up and leave.
That shut her up for a while, but her paranoia didn't stop and manifested in other ways like being hypervigilant of me "checking out" other women. Meanwhile, gaslighting me to check some women out but not others. Basically, she wanted to dictate who I could check out. Quarantine was our "happiest" and quietest time which I allowed me to make sense of things and rightfully break up with her. Things were happy only as long as there was no social contact with others...
If you are being accused of something you didn’t do by your spouse and it’s destroying your marriage then I suggest lining up a polygraph test. I checked into it and it’s about $700. Worth every penny to clear your name and save your marriage. Assuming you really didn’t cheat of course.
Excellent summary of the responsibilities of both parties after a betrayal. Too often I've seen the injured party sink into righteous martyrdom, using their victim status as a retaliatory weapon. Your advice is spot on if both parties want a healthy relationship going forward.
When somwone is craving for freedom, don't suffocate him in a relationship. Letting go is mercy, no matter if he gets offended, and doesn't realise, that you make it with love for him, and for both of you. No matter how many years, how many children....etc. Take courage if you love him. But do it in an acceptable way and time, which can minimase the pain. If you are a snail, how doctor thought us, do it slowly, as a snail. Agree in time, within this or that will be done. Be honest, but not cruel. The responsibility for the damage is mostly shared. We can point our fingers, but what is the use of it, to make him our slaves as a punishment? Love is freedom, not a prison. One can only love freely.
Great video! amazingly tough to work through everything necessary to communicate and heal.
I never asked for transparency. If I trust, I trust completely. I never knew his passwords, PIN kodes, anything, and I never needed them. I respected his privacy. Although I was completely transparent all the time. I gave him access to everything, I always told him everything, I had nothing to hide. Did he appreciate it? I thought he would some day, but he never said anything.
If I start a new, I want to trust again. I don't want to check anything. I don't want to be suspicious. It makes life hell. I feel anyway if something is wrong. If someone can't be trusted, I don't even start.
Betrayel happends in expetations of a commitment.. hounesty, whatever the outcome may be, is the biggest respect you can give to your partner..
Hey, just found your channel through Tribe of Men. Really appreciate the honesty and how unbiased you are. No choosing sides, just telling it how it is.
Side note: when I use to make vids, at one point I used the same thumbnail for a series I did and simply changed the number as I went through the episodes. If you can get a few more thumbnails that differ the one you use now, I think the algorithm will help push your vids. The good thing is you change the text in the white box so that's helps.
So this video seems to have addressed betrayal in marriages or other long-term romantic type relationships? There's also betrayal in business, military affairs, close non-romantic friendships, employer/employee relationships, and more I'm sure. One very difficult aspect of betrayal (delivery to an enemy, abandonment in time of need) is that this often occurs during unusual circumstances that may never occur again. How do you trust someone going forward when in (this situation) they betrayed you, and (this situation) will likely never occur again?
Looking back over the years there were many smaller moments of betrayal leading up to the cheating betrayal. He was always betraying me . That is the kind of man he is. My betrayer, not my protector. That is simply his nature.
Love the interior of your home!
I stopped at 45 secs in. I wouldn't salvage the relationship just move on. good luck to anyone that does try.
I'd also like to add that there has to be genuine repentance on the part of the transgressor. I've experienced betrayal in a friendship, not a romantic relationship, but it's true that it's easier to start over with someone new than to heal. Although I didn't cut off complete contact even though I considered doing so for a long time, I've changed her status from confidant to a distant acquaintance in a group. The reason is she isn't really sorry even though she has apologized, but it was the "I'm sorry if you felt hurt" apology, not for what she did. She thought I was being dramatic and bitter and holding a grudge. (The situation was that she is an enabler to a narcissist who bullied me (and others). She thinks the narcissist just has problems and that I'm actually the one at fault for "triggering" the narcissist's rage/outbursts/attempts to control others. When I explained it was abuse, the friend actually said to me, "You just THINK that is abuse" and "I never hold a grudge against others.") She knows we're not close anymore as I no longer tell her things and she's been very nice and good to me, but I don't engage closely with her. And even if I want her close friendship again, I don't if she's not genuinely sorry that she took the narcissist's side.
I believe you made the right decision. This former friend sounds like a flying monkey. What's interesting is whether she'll come running to you when she gets burned by the narcissist.
These enablers are often worse than the narcissist themselves. I'm sorry you went through that but I'm glad you stood up for yourself! Two of my in-laws are narcissists; they've tried to destroy my marriage six times so your story is very satisfying to hear.
I don't think it is as much about taking sides as it is about being heard and feeling understood which we all want. She may understand the transgressor on a deeper level, and thereby make "excuses" to try and explain their behavior, which they may have reasons for, but the fact is that you felt hurt and need acknowledgement of that to feel understood and have trust. The behavior and boundaries need to be clearly spelled out.
Very helpful. The only way to repair is read the reality and to start on new modus vivendi on new basis.
In my experience, such a process definitely needs a long term accompaniment by a neutral mediator.
No one can be judge and party at the same time and at times family life needs a referee.
I found out my so-called wife never got a divorce and then tried to sneak one in after our child was born. She wasn’t able to complete filing in time before our marriage ceremony … and so we’re not married in the eyes of the law. I paid for her doctorate and many other things … Feels like Betrayal
This is the one thing I’ve always questioned. Also the one reason I’m in the fence about marriage. Because if someone cheats on me my immediate response is to leave I see no reconciliation after that because I’m not a cheater. So idk how ppl do it 😭 love isn’t enough for me.
This is a subject that is different for different people - for example, many couples have open marriages, where external relationships are mutually tolerated. Also 'moving on' is a lot harder than it seems, especially when there are children involved, but what I have found is that even when the cheating has been grudgingly 'forgiven', the memory of the cheat never goes away for the wronged party and they will always resent the transgressor, even decades thereafter. This will just poison the relationship and make life miserable for both parties for as long as they stay together. Forgiveness has to either total and unconditional, or none at all. You can't half-forgive.
Anyone in an open relationship is not in any relationship.
@@kiddytube3915 Why?
@@tancreddehauteville764 because open relationships are transactional by nature.
You don’t love each other unconditionally. Simply put, if your partner wants to end the open relationship and go exclusive, would you change too?
You are together because you are getting supply be it monetary or security whilst looking for emotional support and sex elsewhere. That’s just using and abusing your partner..
@@kiddytube3915 I think many non-open relationships are also transactional. You seem to be living in a Disney world, not the real one.
@@tancreddehauteville764 yes never said it wasn’t the case.. as for open relationships, it’s all transactional. Both parties are abusing each other in some shape or form. Both parties would end the relationship if they decide to go monogamous with each other. So it’s not true love or unconditional love. So what’s the point? Just go your separate ways
What I have learned is some people just don’t know how to coexist with a partner. Birthing order, trauma from their past, acknowledged or denied. Find out who can coexist with you and all your baggage and be mindful. Don’t talk about being mindful. Don’t explain why you are mindful just do it Once you talk about it the other person will almost always think about it and wonder if you are being honest.
Thanks Doc. Going through the valley of the death.
I experienced an emotional affair by my partner. She admitted to and apologized for inappropriate talk with the other guy but never to an affair, and her apology was always mixed with deflecting, defensiveness, and blaming me for my own hurt due to my perception of what transpired and for reading her private messages.
This made so much sense. When I cheated I confessed everything. Answered every question. When she cheated, she lied every step of the way, unless confronted with facts I found. She even withheld info that I repeatedly asked for, saying it didn't matter...no wonder I was incapable of actually being able to try and forgive.
It's been said that it ends all possibility of happiness in the relationship. Why choose unhappiness?
spread the word
She didn't want to take responsibility nor any actions and even blamed me for not forgiving after half a year.
This is what gets me. There was no apology or recognition of my feelings. She just got angry that I was questioning her about a betrayal. Angry and defensive. So, we never worked through our problem because she couldn't face it honestly with me. Trust, once broken is difficult if not impossible to repair. Especially when the wronged party isn't allowed to share how hurt they felt by the betrayer.
very painful time; it took me five years all together to heal from a betrayal ; it was 8 months after I found out we separated, and the way it happened was almost as painful as the betrayal; but I found out that women could as cruel as man and children and even more; the psychologist being a woman probably? explained to my ex the eventual outcome but never did it to me; I think that she was very biased too, because it happened to herself too sometime in the past; so all the odds were against me, but I healed and gained trust and love back; I wish I new more and earlier about such things in life but I did not; TIME though and knowledge was the two very helpful things in my case
It's never the same whether you're the transgressed or transgressor and we all have been both at different times to different people. Either way its just not the same and certainly doesn't improve with time. The only way it might work is if one developed amnesia. Never try to put the toothpaste back into the tube.
Exactly. . And this goes for all those “religious folk who have faith in God”, as well
@@StrongBodymindandspirit Especially for them. They are the most confused about everything unfortunately. Required forgiveness is evil. Faith has led so many down the path of destruction.
She betrayed me by not communicating for months how she felt. She lied, and told me that she was happy and loved me. In reality she was pulling away. All the issues could have been fixed, but she held everything in. She didn't communicate.
She then blindsided me 7 weeks ago. The woman I was going to marry. The love of my life. Betrayed me. Idk if I'll ever be ok again.
Why aren't therapists more interested in helping victims heal from a betrayal without tying it to reconciliation?
That's a choice for the betrayed, not the therapist. You can always say: 'hey therapist. stop saying that I should reconcile because I really killed the betrayer inside of me, so stop.
I'd like to see more of this too. Even after ending that relationship, I can't get past this new, fundamental inability to trust another woman now
bc most therapists are women, and well 😏..
I've seen someone go through this process. It's very hard and it takes a shitload of work. From BOTH parties.
The ending of this made me think about how messed up the prison system is
Going through phone should be an open invitation in any romantic relationship. If the other party has problem with it they are not trustworthy.
This 100%. Especially these days. She would never show me her phone, even when I asked. She exploded with rage when I asked her to show me her phone. Said all the typical things "it's my privacy. You don't trust me." No, I don't trust you. You were chatting with someone who you used to a few around with. But I'm the asshole for aski g to see the phone, see what you have been texting each other. I shut down after that. It was difficult being intimate with her after that, and that is what she said needed in our relationship.
Unfortunately I went through it with an older woman who seemed to define goodness and loyalty. She complained often of her ex cheating on her. So I went out of my way to be honest and transparent. After eight months I had strong suspicions. She looked me in the eye and told me a a series of lies. I accepted them, believed her. I was also madly in love with her and had she done what I thought, it would have devastated me. Two years went by and she became increasingly disrespectful eventually I moved out. I suggested counseling but she refused and put all the blame on me. Which I took hard. The person she dated after me was a trashy crack addict who stole 10k in just four months despite my warning her that he was no good. She took him to court and won 10k so I was right. It showed me she had no standards and no respect for me. Her next move was to marry a man 20 years older and a million dollars richer. She treats him respectfully from what I’ve seen and her lifestyle went from Low to upper middle class overnight. That’s when I started going through old emails. And dates of times I’d been suspicious as well as noticed a friend of hers on Facebook who had quite a lot of her attention going back as far back as us. She confessed finally to cheating with him repeatedly while my dad was dying before we lived together. She refused to apologize or be decent and just blocked me when I asked her how and why she thought that was something a 46 year woman does to a 36 yr old whose father is dying and loved you. And was told I was loved to. She disgusts me now. The hatred is consuming and I’m angry at myself for being such a poor judge of character. I never even saw any shame or regret or tears. She’d just used me. One last younger man before she married for money. I’m planning to move out of town so I never have to see her again. The lying and cheating was bad but the lack of apology or even asking for my forgiveness…I don’t have good words to say about her. I’d dated far younger women most of my life and made a mistake in judging her by her words not her actions. Pretty sure she has a personality disorder but am more concerned about why I accepted her bs. I’ve remained single and still haven’t found a way to trust women. Until I have a lot of money my feeling is history will just repeat and I’ll be used till someone better looking or richer comes along. Not all women are this way but the older I get the more I see the pattern and how prevalent it is for people to say they are one thing. While demonstrating they aren’t for real. When you’re not in love it’s very easy to see.
You moved out. Why did you feel the need to stay in contact with her, go through old emails etc.etc? You should have ghosted her and move on with your life. Women never apologize, Orion also has a video on this. When I broke up with my ex LTR I completely cut contact and moved to another continent to start over. Read unplugged alpha by Rich Cooper.
It's just time to move on. Period.
Walk away. It's not even fair not to because everyone needs to have happiness as a priority, both parties. Unless of course children are involved then its complicated.
My man ❤!
a waste of time to even consider "healing" what is already broken
The TH-camr who goes by “AMS” I believe has a great philosophy for him receiving value after she the transgressor has violated the trust and would like to restore trust
A whole lotah qik
O and don't eva truss a bit eva
Women initiate most breakups, they always line up a replacement before they dump you. Guys never get married
cause most breakups
There’s always someone on the bench she’ll have start over you and take your position
Could you do a video on betraying yourself? Or how to get over lost opportunities?
I very much wanted this back when I had strong feelings for my ex, however they did't come to the table.
I've more or less come to terms with what my own shortcomings are/were and what theirs are/were.
I still have love for them and wish them the best, but am more clear about what I want, and what I won't accept.
Hope I can be clear and insightful moving forward.
I love your content! You have helped me realize much more about human motivation with your videos, Thank you for bringing your expertise to the world Dr. Taraban
Merci beaucoup !
People who expect forgiveness are not good people.
leave the person as soon as possible. Thats the only way
I was in this situation and I know what this plague is. Is about obosite of validation, îs like loosing the șelf value, speaking as smv. So, the first instinct îs the regain your value and this guide you to go outside. Only the non confident ones will consider a conceling becouse by folowing this way, your atractioness will even get lower, so even if your partner will accept to play the negative role, the atraction between you two will be fucking zero, and this can not be negociated, neither claimed. I think, ask your genitals. Will they get hot ? Will you get aroused ? And if yes, then enjoy, but if not , move on.
My genitals literally cannot even be attracted to her anymore because she betrayed me. When I think of her, I don't think of sex. I just feel worriness, depression and betrayal.
How dare the betrayer ask for anything
As much as I love money, there is one thing I value more than all the money in the world, and that is trust. So if I'm in a relationship with a person and they betry me. It's over that person will never hear from me again. There's no need to apologize. I'm out! The only person I'd forgive is my father because he's my flesh and blood. I often think of him and wish him the best wherever he's at. Poor soul. But anyone else can go F themselves.
Giving some people another chance is like waiting around for them to reload.
Seems to me that women will almost NEVER be willing to relinquish manipulative emotional blackmail. They just enjoy it too much. It will never how much better you are after fixing your issue. Women just revel in bringing up an "I told you so" over and over again. They love it. They love that power more than they'll ever love you.
Very interesting and helpful.
How would the approach differ when a child has been betrayed by a parent. As in that case moving on and strarting over with a new parent isn't possible and the perpetrator has much more leverage over the victim?
Is it possible to cut ties with the parent?
You can't ever have a different biological parent, but you can choose your family as an adult. At that point, any leverage the perpetrator has is psychological and can be working through.
As a parent of such a child ( betrayed by the other parent) I can say that although the perpetrator is willing to jump through all the hoops, the child (19 now) has no inclination of giving any space. Unfortunately. I think it will require many years of “ adulthood” to genuinely forgive and create a new relationship with the parent
@@oriontaraban6169 That's pretty much what happened in this case. Thanks for the reply.
It’s not the same
I couldn't do this.
Wester culture may not be familiar with this: if a villain slap on a man’s right face, the man sides his head for a moment to compose himself calmly, then the man offers the villain his left face ( for the villain to slap ) …. And why? The scholarly philosophy states: ‘ it is to agitate the villain’s sense of shame. ‘ But a villain is a villain that such philosophy could never work.
I think…I’m good now.
Thanks
How do you measure honesty ?
Never stay with a cheater. Ever. It will keep happening.
NO !!!! Move On !!!!!
Dr. Taraban, I'm curious as to why you would equate forgiveness of betrayal with "never speaking of it again". Forgiveness and reconciliation are two separate entities. I can forgive without reconciliation, but I can't reconcile without forgiveness. Statistically, 86% of couples who self-report as talking about the betrayal "a lot" were still together at the 5 year mark as opposed to those who didn't talk about the betrayal. In my experience and others I know, more talking, not less is the road to healing.
Thank you 💖
Hello Dr, thanks for this. Can you please give some advice on what to do or how to deal with, if i have to stay with the perpetrator a little longer before i have the possibility to leave. This is very difficult for me to handle but i have to for various reasons. Really hope and will be very thankful if you can share some advice.
What about outside a romantic context in which one has competing obligations? What should the betrayed do, how should the betrayed see the betrayer if the betrayer simply had to choose one obligation over another?
I can forgive my partner of 20+ years of marriage, although I cannot forget. It now seems that I'm paying more than the (may I I say) guilty person. Maybe I'm just too late scared to leave?
Yes video watched
But what If you have a family with this person
interesting.. in my situation i don't even do somethings wrong, but the trauma from the past makes the girl thinks i will do bad things in the future. wdyt about this situation?
Asian people demonstrate endurance due to their culture heritage. But aggression towards such tolerance must meet consequences for the sake of its owe good and good for many others.
What do you mean?
What would be categorized as “betrayal?” Seems very broad on the degree of offense
He's primarily talking about cheating/Infidelity in a romantic relationship
Maybe this is a fool's errand, and a sign that the relationship is wholly unsalvageable, but if there are repeated betrayals which are only brought up when all pleas for cessation have failed to show that recidivism has occurred, is that toxic?
I think you should move on😮
There is a problem I'm having. How do I work out the damage and not project it onto a new partner? She has never hurt me yet I cannot stop seeing signs that aren't there all the time.
It was an error to start a new relationship to Begin with if you won't have yet overcome problems of the past. You're contaminating the new one, with residues from the Last one. Now if you're there already, focus all your thoughts in her and the new moments. Instantly suppress any bad thoughts with a kiss, a hug or remember a beautiful moment with her. ( All of this cant be for your convenience to forget, instead they have to be acts of joy and genuine love) Whatever you do, dont tell her that you're struggling trying to forget your past. She will instantly recent and distrust you and she's going to be right to do so. Respect your new partner.
A man's betrayal happens in the overwhelming majority of times due to the biological need for variety. A woman's betrayal, on the other end, happens typically when she looks down on you and will often involve feelings. If a woman cheats on you, and you're lucky enough to catch it, be aware that it may not have been the first time and for sure it's not the last time. A relationship is simply too weak to go anywhere once a betrayal occurs, particularly if the woman was the perpetrator.
Great comment ^
This is my version of your words, for those who would like to understand it from a different perspective (I added some of my own in it):
In essence, men tend to be more focused on opportunities, while women prioritize values. It's crucial to understand that this doesn't negate the fact that both genders have values and opportunities; rather, it highlights our inherent tendencies. Its important to keep in mind that there are people (like me) who do not follow the natural pattern of gender expression, and may express themselves as masculine (opportunities) or feminine (values) while internally being the exact opposite. For example; what opportunity did I create by sending this message? Or what value am I trying to answer if I'm not chasing opportunities with this action? Its entirely possible you're a woman who loves creating opportunities, while you may be a man who just loves to hold and nurture a baby. Its unusual to see the extreme expression of one gender in that of the other, but the thought processes are there regardless.
Unfortunately, many people struggle to see things from the other's perspective, hindering effective communication and collaboration. This stems from our natural inclination towards either opportunity or value orientation, making our priorities differ. The key here is that the difference of prioritisation also causes you to chase a different environment or presentation, and thus you get exposed to different skills and stereotypes. Ergo, it is likely that if you conform to a certain expression, that you indeed have a complementary thought pattern, not a deviating one. This is btw why neuro-divergence is difficult to deal with; you cannot tell how a thought or action deviates from the values you are exposed to.
When a woman doesn't get what she wants, she perceives it as a lack of opportunity to provide value. Consequently, she might blame the man, deeming him low in value. On the other hand, when a man faces a shortfall, it's often a lack of perceived value, leading him to seek opportunities elsewhere. This distinction in mindset is rooted in different brain regions, causing varied thought processes.
Men, facing a onset loss of value, may quickly move on, driven by a desire to safeguard opportunities by holding on for dear life to the values he has internalised. Conversely, women, confronted with a scarcity of opportunities, seek different avenues to showcase their values. If unsuccessful, they may become nurturing and open, attempting to create opportunities for themselves by providing value without a direct need for getting anything back. This difference in approach can result in men becoming more visible when they lose opportunities and women becoming more open to compensate for a lack of opportunities.
In times of distress, men may close themselves off to protect their perceived value, while women may open up to create opportunities, even if it leads to a certain level of delusion. The absence of clear boundaries in opportunities can result in a loss of value or invisibility. This intricate interplay between opportunities and values influences how individuals cope and interact.
Its unfortunate that we're not more free with sharing our values to one another.. for all our opportunities are limited by our resources, but our values has no such limitation.
@@msc8382I think it's a good point.
🙏🏻
I subscribed doc
I have
I work as a couples therapist.
The idea of a betrayed partner enjoying dominance and a power differential as a reason for not letting a betrayal go, while spoken with authority, is disconnected from a neurobiological understanding of trauma. There is no transactional benefit to not "letting go"- it's rather about a need to survive and not be tricked or deceived again that lends to the power differential. There is some amount of projection happening in this video- it's not based in research or the bulk of clinical work with couples experiencing effects of betrayal trauma.
There are a ton of €|_|€|
Move on ! Completely a waste of your time
Mmm, no
@@josevelasco1388 Waste all that time and energy to run the risk of them doing it again?
I did mean to move on with my original post dont stick around for that .
@AuthenticMath Definitely easier said than done
And a complete waste of theirs also. Lose lose situation.