Thinking of going to grad school? Check out STELLAR, my top-rated GRE self-study program based on the world's only empirically-validated test prep system. Use the code "PSYCH" for 10% off all membership plans: stellargre.com. The most toxic relationship belief is also -- unfortunately -- one of the most prevalent. It's so simple that you may not even believe me when I reveal it to you. In so many words, it's the belief that, in your relationship, you are free to be yourself. This is not really true, but believing it is can corrode your relationships from the inside out. In reality, relationships are roles, and you jeopardize the privilege of a relationship to the extent that your behavior is at odds with the expectations associated with your role. I'll discuss more in this episode. Social Media Facebook: facebook.com/profile.php?id=100090053889622 LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/orion-taraban-070b45168/ Instagram: instagram.com/psyc.hacks Twitter: twitter.com/oriontaraban Website: oriontarabanpsyd.com Become a Psychonaut and join PsycHack's member community: th-cam.com/channels/SduXBjCHkLoo_y9ss2xzXw.htmljoin Book a paid consultation: oriontarabanpsyd.com/consultations Sponsor an episode: oriontarabanpsyd.com/sponsor-an-episode #toxic #relationship #psychology
@Aligned I'd like to kindly point out, from a strangers perspective: You've just dismissed something men value as "superficial," because it's not a priority for YOU. While I agree that your ex should not have done that, I can imagine that this dismissiveness existed inside the relationship. That's neither helpful nor healthy. If you want a man to take your priorities seriously, you must reciprocate. So must he. Men WILL NOT share any of their feelings with you if you dismiss a request as simple and easy as wearing attractive clothing as "superficial," and therefore refuse to comply with the request. This doesn't mean heels and a dress or lingerie (necessarily, though it wouldn't scoffed at). Just dress like you were going to eat dinner at a Chilis. I hope you take this as it's intended: advice, not an attack.
Do you have a thought out list of commkn things that this might apply to, especially in terms of communication? I'm always reticent to share things with my wife, for fear they will be "a bridge too far," and violate the roles. I hope that's clear.
My wife has said negative things to me that she would NEVER say to anyone else on earth under similar circumstances. ... - In responding to an expensive necklace I gave her for Christmas she asked rhetorically, "I'm not wearing necklaces now, so why would you do that?" If anyone else has given her that, she would have shown appreciation. She not only didn't say a word of gratitude or acknowledgement, she didn't even look at me after opening it... And then proceeded to insult me over it! - When my son was misbehaving and she didn't like how I dealt with him, she said, "Any other man would have grabbed him by the scruff of his neck." Which is essentially saying to me, "You are the least of all men on Earth."
It is never an excuse for a woman to take her attitude out on someone, especially the person she loves the most, but I will tell you I have experienced this in my marriage and there is something deeply wrong inside the woman’s heart through prayer and study God finally gave me revelation to it Don’t ever give up you made a promise to her if anything you need to pursue her harder just as God pursues us in our sin somedays we loveHim other days, we are so focused on ourselves. We forget about everyone else. Life is pain and suffering and reward. Women Treat us men like we treat God one minute we are appreciating Him and the next we are blaming Him for why everything is messed up. We are our women’s life punching bag, but truly, it may not seem like it but We are also their greatest treasure even though theyseem to never. Hint to that we must outlast their negativity and pain to be the protector and provider we promised them we would be that does not mean continue to take abuse but if you do take abuse, take it and well and draw a boundary we are the leaders we can actually train maturity into our beautiful women. It is our job to be the mature leader that guides our family. Think about her even more than you already do and pray to God to guide you don’t give up we promised we wouldn’t remember that us men are built on our word even when other peoples promises fail ours must not it is who we are
That excuse is a females mantra & license to accept her habitual bad behavior and never accept responsibility for her actions doing the work on herself to improve since I’m perfect already!
It reminds me of what I've heard once : "Being married and having a family is like running a business. If you show up and do the work only when you feel like it, your company is not going to survive long." That being said, I don't think it's realistic or even healthy to expect being always "on" and in your "role" 24/7, the couple just need to agree on the right balance between "dressed up" and "sweatpants" mode and keep to it.
I concur. I have been with the same woman for decades. We have adult children. I am willing to forgive mistakes and the occasional bad day- it happens to all of us. But I have no patience for disrespect. And funny thing is, my familial relationships have improved.
of course. Nobody works 24/7 and nobody should be on 100% in a relationship. However you must always be aware and ready to bring your A game at all times!
This lecture made me think very different about why my lady and I broke up after 3 years. I got comfortable with the relationship, and I stopped thinking of it as a privilege like you said. I stopped courting her, I never planned fun dates or vacations. As a result, SHE was usually the one to end up planning the vacations, and it actually caused me to feel rather emasculated sitting on a beautiful beach in Mexico with her and me thinking to myself, "Wow, none of this was my idea, but it COULDVE been." She also seemed to stop trying in her own way with me as a result of my lack of romantic enthusiasm (putting on perfume and doing her hair all sexy for work but then changing into sweatpants and t shirt when she got home). This was the cause of countless fights, which you should also never do (argue with women). I realise now how much I was pointing the finger at her or 'modern women' or 'society corrupting her' when in reality, it is men who lead by example. Women want to follow men but when us men stop being masculine leaders they can look up to, they will also stop making an effort, or just give up and leave. It's a mistake I hope to never make again because I lost good one.
Damn… at least you had the revelation. It takes so much maturity and self reflection to realize the mistakes you’ve made. I’m wowed at your response. What you said is amazing. It’s unfortunate that she completely gave up on the relationship without a full explanation of her needs while the both of you accompany a therapist.
I'm not even in a romantic relationship yet, and what you've shared is already very crucial to keep in mind. Much respect. I really hope you'll find a new love soon (that is, whenever you're open for it again).
Interestingly, there actually seems to be different consensus on who should change first. some people say the onus is on women to change first, and tune into her femininity and that attraction will cause the man to naturally awaken his masculinity (see Fascinating Womanhood the book for this frame of thinking). Others say like you that it is women who follow men, and but when men stop being masculine leaders, the women follows suit. To me, part of being in a relationship requires sacrifice. If this relationship falls off course, and both parties fall comfortable, no matter who started to slack off first, i believe it is the person who realizes first who has the obligation to re-ignite that effort in the other. As long as it isnt too late. That is part of forgiveness, and respecting the investment of time and effort you have in the other partner. Unfortunately it seems both of you realized this too late. I hope your next relationship is a truly successful one my friend. You deserve this happiness for your newly found self-accountability.
This makes 100% sense to me. I've dated women and have been around "woke" individuals who claim they can be "free" and in a monogamous relationship at the same time. If your "freedom" crosses my boundaries, you need to be contrite and honor my boundaries, or else you don't get to participate in an intimate relationship or friendship with me.
Political views are spiritual and not separate from how a person views and acts. Never, ever date a leftist. Read Ecc 10:2, Is 5:20, then when you understand how those two say the same thing, read Ro 1:22. Then when you understand how that plays into the previous 2 verses, read Romans 1:18-32. You'll see current society and where you find yourself in it.
I prefer the term “woke” more than “leftist.” I don’t disagree with everyone on the left, but the “woke” label works well for people whose beliefs are genuinely an exact parallel to a religious, proselytizing extremist zealotry. They do not live in reality nor seem to want to interact with reality on its terms.
@@hoobeydoobey1267 Damn. It's almost as if Jesus didn't ask us to treat others with humility, generosity and empathy. As if he wasn't criticizing the accumulation of wealth and egoism. Sounds pretty leftist to me.
@@DavZeugme That's because you make God into your image rather than die to self and transform into His. Read Ecc 10:2. God wrote that. Now you know. PS: Did your college prof tell you that belief? Atheist group where you sat stroke each other's ego?
@@hoobeydoobey1267 you should not judge your brothers, for that is God's prerogative. Remember James 4:11-12 or Romans 14:4? It includes your leftist brothers.
Now I understand how my gf feels when I am home from work and I don’t shave, or walk around in my favorite pair of old blue jeans and old shirt. When it’s time for me to leave for work, I tend to put on my “character” of how I want the world to see me. When she comes home from work, she’s always clean, she does her makeup and always smells so fresh. She recently brought this to my attention, but in a way of accusing me of dressing the part for someone else aka other women. I work in a field where 98% of us are men and the handful of women who do work in my field are not my type or even remotely attractive to me. So I would get defensive and have to convey this to her in which she has a hard time believing me. At first I thought it was just her feeling insecure about herself and not trusting me. I’ll admit, I kinda let myself go a little now that I’m in my mid 40’s. The vigor I once had has dwindled some. And I have become a bit complacent expecting her to “accept me for me”. Thank you for explaining this to me. I love her and she is the most beautiful and amazing woman I know. This makes sense to me now. Thank you for all your content. I feel like I am really learning a lot about myself and trying to be conscious of those around me with regards to defining my boundaries while showing respect and understanding empathy. 🙏🏽
@@GoodCharms Ah you read it as more like J Dee asking if he already put in some effort in the month after he posted the comment? Then I really like J Dee's question to be answered.
Good video. I do not like playing a role, and I love the freedom of being myself. This helps to explain why I am happier single. My reaction to the video was basically, "I am retired. I don't want another job." :)
Agreed. This is exactly what I thought when I noticed my GF got lazier over time, putting less effort into everything (exercise, diet, clothing, sex, etc.) that involved us. But! As soon as it involved other people (work, family, friends, literally anything else), more effort was put in. I talked to her about this and she gave me very modern feminist reasonings, like, "I do what I want". Fair enough! I have changed my level of effort to match hers. Now, we're equal. We don't do things for each other. I'm very productive and learning while she watches her dramas with her snacks. Soon we'll split and I'll be better off. Always keep your goals and aspirations and take care of yourself.
Im just seeing this video now which made me go, "HOW TIMELY!" Had the same issue with my partner a few weeks ago which stacked over months. During a convo about looking good, I told her she doesnt put much work into looking good. Her flex rebuttal was, "Everyone complimented on the fact that I put in work into my make up and clothing choice." after coming back from meeting with her college buddies. I said, "Well, they dont see you on the day to day like I do so of course they would compliment you. They get to see your best while I see the opposite pretty much everyday." She put on make-up and wore something nice the next day without me asking lol. We both work at home so its easy to be lazy. Since then, she puts on make up 4-5 times during the week. The fact that I like being alone makes it easier for me to be cold. Though before, I would tell her, "men are extremely visual creatures" along with denying her sexual advances half the time hoping she would get the idea without hurting her ego. I should have been more straightforward from the get go. I feel I can read between the lines, ppl like attention from the opposite sex. Its just that women have it way easier than men. I say, dont match her energy. Do better for yourself, go out with your friends or whatever else. Or just straight split ASAP.
I am exactly where I need to be to hear this. I’m so thankful. This is another one I wish I had understood some thirty years ago. The last great out-of-the-ballpark one I heard here is “You can’t have any relationship you want with any person.” I’m thankful!
I'm so happy your speaking these things in such a straight forward way. I had an ex that would continually say, "if you loved me then you'd accept me exactly as I am." He could not comprehend that we, meaning both of us, should always be bettering ourselves.
This is the true reason why most relationships don't work.if you never ever have any space to be yourself your mental health suffers.bin there done that, single is bliss.
You're not free to do whatever you want, but in a good relationship, you're not only obligated to give the attention and diligence which the relationship deserves, but you should also be free to receive some of the freedoms that it affords as well. That means sometimes being weak, ugly and unsure, and sharing that with your partner. If a relationship doesn't allow for that then I don't really see the benefit over being alone.
the benefit is having kids and having them in an environment that is conducive for their growth. Being weak, ugly and unsure can be done on your own time and/or in front of a therapist.
@@alexdavila1356 I don't think that's entirely true. Being willing to show weakness to your partner means being honest with your partner, and transparency is vital to a successful relationship. The key is to be making a genuine effort to address the problems together, as opposed to doing nothing and just forcing your partner to accept your flaws as-is. That's what's really a toxic behavior.
Yup. The belief that our relationship defies all of the relationship rules of every other relationship -- the thought we can "just relax" in our relationships-- is toxic and lethal.
This makes alot of sense. If you are in a relationship with another human being, you should act in a way that helps preserve that relationship not destroy it. This means making an effort and acting with respect and integrity. I had mentioned previously "if you're in a relationship with another human being", because if you want to act anyway you want and not deal with the consequences of such action, then maybe your not ready to be in a relationship with anyone but yourself. *apologies for any grammatical errors English is my 2nd language but I'm working on it 😊
1000% My ex-wife literally said this about 2-3 weeks after we got married as she immediately flipped the switch and turned into an asshole. She admitted she was just manipulating me to get down the aisle and now that we were married she didn’t have to pretend to be someone she was not anymore.
I think what also helps is picking a partner that is happy with your level of effort. Compatibility is immensely important for a long term happy relationship. This is why I don't wear makeup on the first date. I don't wear make up for most other areas of my life. I want them to know exactly what I look like from the get go. It's also why my partner did not set the bar high with gifts, flowers, expensive restaurants, etc. We set these expectations when we date, then later slack off and wonder why our spouse is unhappy with us. It's because the fell in love with the version we presented, not who we actually are. My fiance and I are very happy. Does that mean we are 100% ourselves. Probably not. We help each other put. We split chores. We spend time together even if in the moment we want to do soothing else. This is the less fun part but is important to pull your weight. And of course the good stuff. It is important to engage in love language behaviours, preferably how your partner prefers to receive love. This should be daily and isn't hard once you make it habit. Look, some people being themselves works. But such people aren't a walking pile of red flags. They are pleasant, agreeable and prioritise teamwork. They deal with stress and conflict well and have good communication skills. They are conscientious, respectful of others and naturally want to pull their weight. If being 100% you involves toxic or abusive behaviour no one has to accept that, period.
Well said, summarizing many points I've learned over the years and good to put into practice. I especially like your first point about compatibility - often times its about what you do (can this person fit into my lifestyle) rather than what it really is, the level of effort that is expected (a completely different measure). Also, love languages, yes completely. Your interpretation of how you understand love is likely going to be different than your potential partners, important to understand that and address it early on. Congratulations on finding a compatible person!
@@meder07 thank you! It did take me going through a toxic, if not abusive, relationship to learn about compatibly and why it's so important. Life experience is valuable and worth paying attention to so we don't make the same mistakes.
I feel bad for all you young men dating. Don’t marrying them, live with them or have children with them. Work hard, work for yourself and save your money. Buy a house some toys and date casually. I’ve seen so many of my friends get caught in the trap. You will never fully recover from the financial hit she will cost you. I was smarter than the average bear.
Just found your channel I've already watch nine videos back-to-back. I'm a thirty-eight-year-old intellectual who love psychology and yet I'm hearing a lot of these things for the first time that make a lot of sense. Thank you very much. Subscribed.
This makes 100% sense to me. Modern Women will argue, fight non-stop, disrespect men, but ONLY in personal relationship. In professional relationship these same women know they cannot pull that crap with their bosses bc they will be FIRED immediately. Women ask yourself - when was the last time you kept arguing with your boss just because you had to be right.
@@FriskyTendervittlesPeople aren't people. There are qualities, negative or positive, that are generally masculine and those that are feminine. We don't have to play that "it goes both ways" everytime something is said.
This is so deep! "The truth is an offense but not a sin." It will take some a little time to digest This, disbelieve in it and one day accept it as a fact. Life gets better when you accept the facts.
you must have been a solicitor in your past life😍 you verbalize all the things I was thinking to myself, even wrote in my own journals and told my friends in exact that manner, it feels so good to find someone on yt that shares this view!
This just makes sense for rude, non empathetic people - this folks really need to control themselves 24/7 because they have no natural inclination to acomodate the confort of those around them. But a fair person needing to control and hide who they are in a relashionship makes no sense - how could I expect my husband to ge home tired and still behaves like he is visiting his gramma? Expect someone to be our particular "cheerleader" and entertainer is the reason why relashionship don't last anymore- we are treating family like a monetary transaction.
Guilty. My first wife once said "Don't use your *** customer skills on me!" I learned the wrong lesson from that. I failed with my second wife because I didn't use them. Right on with this one.
I lost countless friends n gfs because I “didn’t sell them” nor use “customer service skills” due to shaming from a couple friends and my mother. They said I was really nice when I sold but they could never trust that person even though my customers profoundly loved me and trusted me while I guided and painstakingly served them in love n respect. I became a as*hole (in my personal life) while feeling I was ultra honest giving them zero tact and pure transparency (overall). I got a phobia and became kinda brutally honest no matter the bad feed back I got… because I was giving truth rather then being this toxic manipulator (which I never was). Your 1000% right. Keep the customer service skills going. They are tactful negotiating skills with delicately intelligent body languaging algorithms with problem solving and caring mixed into reasonable leadership demonstrations. Makes you a pleasure in a personal relationship. We need these skills more in personal relationships then anywhere else honestly. Amazing channel content and great comment 4CardsMan !
The analogy can be taken farther. A customer can choose to stop frequenting a business because, in spite of your attention to good service, a competitor with a perceived better product comes along or she might just become bored with what you have to offer.
This is a very good episode, making an important point with a metaphor that works! The assumption that we can just be ourselves in relationships may also reflect a certain shift in expectation and attitude that may be traceable to the wave of thinking around self-actualization, individual freedom etc that started in the late 60s. This has promoted a certain form of immaturity in which partners are viewed almost like parents who are expected to love unconditionally..
This sounds a little bit misogynistic imo. Why is that there is no place in your life that you can be yourself and feel comfortable in your own skin? That's what it seems like you are saying. When you are in a relationship, you will likely be together most of the time outside of work and kids if you have them so to say the only time you can be yourself is when you're alone, means that you will likely (never) have time to be yourself. If your partner has a problem with you getting into a comfy t shirt and sweatpants after a long day of work then you need to find a new partner. I would agree that breaking that relationship contract of sorts, the dynamic of a relationship and certain aspects would likely be a deal breaker for many and a deal breaker for me but I think as you said, it's determined by what you agree apon in the relationship to begin with. It is weird for you to specifically point out women for wearing sweatpants aka (something comfy) and saying that they are not participating in their "role" but I think it would have made more sense to point out that this specific relationship was formed to be that way, rather than just the example itself. In most relationships the example you gave is pretty normal, most people don't mind their spouse getting comfy after work, also most relationships that do work out are ones formed on the premise of both people being themselves so that they can be themselves around the person who already loves everything about them. This to me sounds more like the idea a lot of conservatives have, where they expect people to follow a list of unspoken guidelines. "Socially constructed" guidelines is a very broad thing to say and in that case you could create any rul that you feel is "socially constructed" it's better imo that be determined by the people in the relationship itself not by the world around them because that can lead to a lot of expectations you want but don't get met because not everyone will fit into those "socially constructed" roles.
This is where my wife is at right now. She has become withdrawn and negative. Never taking responsibility for her actions or holding herself accountable. Yet, interestingly enough, somehow it is always my fault for her problems. Problems that she has caused. She has shown the majority of signs of depression. Nothing like coming in last for everything Never once understanding that her apathy is the cancer that is eating our relationship alive.
This has been common sense to me for a long time. It's super strange to me that so many of the women I've dated don't seem to understand this. If you're not contributing anything to the relationship, then what reason does the guy have for keeping you around? Isn't the whole point of relationships to do things for one another and serve each other in various ways? If you're not doing that, you're failing at your role in the relationship and are willfully setting yourself up to get "fired." Duh. This seems so obvious. Thank you for the video.
Agreed. I'd like to add that in addition to feeling cheated, this could fuel any insecurities about the possibility of infidelity being baked into the crust of some workplace relationships.
Previous generations took this to heart. Most parents from the 1950s/1960s were on point 24/7 to their kids and neighbors as reliable citizens, and many now in the 80s+ still have their role instincts. If they were positive and productive, this is a good thing.
Thank you for this topic. This concept has been at the fringes of my mind for some time now and I was never quite able to explain it. You’re absolutely right, and comparing it in terms of our jobs really hit home for me.
I see Dr. Taraban's video and I instantly hit the like button. You're on the verge of garnering the 'GOAT' status due to the quality of your content and your valuable insights. Thank you.
Good video. I am really liking this ongoing analogy you've been using between how we treat people at work versus how we treat people in our personal lives. I think it's a very good way of conceptualizing how we should treat the people in our personal lives with the degree of respect they deserve.
I think you have a point, but it's not defined enough, and can be taken too many different ways. I think roles in romantic relationships are built in, and it's mostly natural to follow those roles. I believe what you are referring to with not being ourselves is our imperfections and our tendency to want to slack, be lazy, or think of ourselves and not consider the other person. Sometimes, it's just pride that gets in the way or the fact that we feel uncomfortable with a certain vulnerability that we aren't used to showing. These toxic things can be natural for us and are part of who we are due to being imperfect and raised certain ways. The good news is that we can change these things within ourselves. So overall, being our natural selves is a good thing, because we aren't exhausting ourselves by putting up a facade, BUT we have to take into consideration our imperfections. For example, I've decided years ago to make an effort to practice being myself at ALL times, wherever I go and with whatever I do and around ALL people. Ever since I've began doing this, I've felt so much happier and more free and more energetic and more confident. It works wonders. Now, I have to hold my tongue sometimes though, because perhaps a leader at work might be extremely inefficient and unwilling to listen, which angers me. Or maybe my natural inclination is to be lazy at work that day. Or perhaps I don't feel like spending time with my girlfriend, because I want too much alone time to focus on other things. To your point, THESE are imperfections that are natural for me that I have to be aware of and exercise self-control with in order to maintain my happiness and my relationships. So be ourselves, but be aware of and temper our imperfections. Not doing this and just following our hearts carelessly can lead to disaster. It really takes some humility.
What you are calling "to practice being myself at ALL times" seems to embody a lot of wisdom or self-awareness, coupled with greater confidence. It sounds very healthy, but that formula won't work for everyone.
@Mark Patterson Practicing being myself included saying what was on my mind out loud, instead of holding it in as only a thought. Making a joke that came to mind even though there is a chance no one would laugh or care, voicing my disagreements, no matter how unpopular my opinion might be, and not being afraid to smile and wave at people when I want to, or compliment a stranger or anybody really, or being honest about embarrassing things about myself, or say "no" to people when appropriate for myself, or tell someone that I do not appreciate something said about me, and not just laugh it off if I didn't feel good about it. Even something like doing random stretches and exercises when I wanted to around groups of people, even if they made fun of me for it. Also, not laughing at jokes I didn't like, such as jokes at someone else's expense or jokes that I felt were shallow and gross just to make the one making the joke feel more comfortable. Or just not changing my demeanor when speaking to someone with lots of power or a woman I felt was extremely beautiful, or a man that looks like an extremely rough gang banger. Treat everyone the same and keep the same boundaries with everyone. I'm still working on this stuff to be honest, but I've gotten much better. The practice just consists of those little things that I think anyone can start practicing one at a time if they really wanted to, and if they were willing to honestly examine their own behavior.
Excellent message. My ex wife frequent said “ I just want to be married to someone who “loves me for who I am”. Sounded initially ok, but I later realized that it really meant that “she was not willing to change and try to be the best version of herself”. We eventually divorced. She remarried and divorced again. When a later girlfriend told me the same thing, MAJOR red flag!!! Do not commit to a woman that is unwilling to grow. Run!
This makes so much sense when I think about it now, a relationship is fundementally a process of transaction of values, if the transaction is hindered or stops, the relationship ends.
The lady going out to work looking good for men at work and looking lesser for me, at home, or when we would go out together is a very good point. I confronted my wife with the exact same point. She checked it and changed her behaviour.
Great advice for two normal well adjusted people. mix in a full fledged narcissistic personality order and it's impossible to please them... it's not about the relationship it's about them.. period
This is your best video. Absolutely spot on! Divorced my husband due to this...he was always his best outside the home while having no filter, no hygiene and no manners to me and my son. I am sorry marriage isn't unconditional love. No one can tolerate a double faced person.
I agree in some points. Relationship is a privilege. And its important to have a little "filter" to always be respectfull, reflective etc. My most concern is: In this way - to not be truly myself - its not a real relationship to me. Its a role I play and a farce in the relationship. I want my partner to truly understand me. To getting know of me everyday. But that cant be done if I play a role. Sure - its important to maintain a healthy relationship in working together, investing time and strength into the partnership by communicating, obverserving and reflecting together. But in my opinion its very diffucult to say: I cant be myself. Even at work I am always truly trying to be myself. Sometimes I need to play a competent role. But thats not the whole story. There are many moments when I am myself. And when other people dont like that - thats okay. But then its not an worthy relationship for me. Because its not "true". To be true to myself means also to be kind to myself. To put makeup on just me to want to feel nice and pretty when Im looking at the mirror. I try to talk to myself in a respectful way. I am also a little concerned about what that means to me/other people. Because: When does the role of a partner stop? Sure - everyone has moments where he wants other people to please him. The result for me after watching this video is to need to set very clear boundaries, then? Who am I, what do I want to give to this relationship, how far do I want to go before getting loose of myself. Because that cost a lot of strength. No. The more I think about it, the more I dislike that. Because I am always trying to be real. And I play no role. Only, when its really important to meet needs (!). But everyone else have to accept that how I am. I am not such competent at work and thats okay. But its not a good job for me, where I can not be real. Its not my purpose of life then.
I tired the "clock in and do not even try" strategy at work. The bosses eventually figured it out and pretending to work was almost as much effort as working anyway. More on topic, there is a quote "Be the best version of yourself for a given situation."
Wow this great sir ! Opens the mind to some in depth things going on in relationships. Me personally my gf doesn’t dress up for work by choice and she dresses up for me and or wears sexy clothes for when I come home from work ! I don’t have to wonder “ why does she get dressed up so nice for work and looks like crap at home with me. I’ve been with a woman like that before it was frustrating. More ppl need to see this !!!!
Couple of things. First, when dating one primary thing I look for is that I enjoy her when she is just being herself and she enjoys me when I am just being myself. Also when dating and things look promising I make sure we have discussions about what the partnership part of our relationship will look like. Things like what things in the partnership will I handle, what will she handle. Those discussions help she and I have an idea what roles each of us will play.
Yeah, but unfortunately those ideas are seen through rose-colored glasses in the beginning stages of dating and relationships. The cold hard reality that comes with time seldom matches up to what you were discussing with her in the beginning.
@@kylefournier4254 I use the discussion about who does what to get a sense of how her values and mine might work together. In many cases nothing came later because I sensed the woman was just running her mouth rather than making a commitment to working as a partner. Things will change in any partnership. Having practiced 'finding what works for both' early in the relationship means she and I can far more easily 'work past' changes.
Some ways you can deal with the stress that comes from upholding your roles in relationships and life is to participate in sports/exercise, pray/meditate, or go hiking in nature/camping/hot springs. You can do it alone or with close family/friend.
@@ThorMaximus Your missing the point that work life and personal life isn't the same thing. That and the blue collar world seems to function just fine without sticking a stick up their ass every day.
💯 percent spot on. You can't be casual about life otherwise you end up being a casualty. Life is a serious business. Relationships are part of that business...
I agree with the first part of this, specifically that a relationship, especially being married to another human being is a privilege. But I don't agree that men whose wives get dressed up for work and dressed down at home to sweatpants are feeling hurt and cheated. Hard-working men that dress for work every day understand why their women come home and get comfortable. They appreciate that she is working hard to bring home a paycheck for the household, and they want her to relax and be comfortable in their shared space. It's ridiculous for a man to expect her to dress up at home with high heels after working hard all day. Home is a couple's sanctuary where they can be themselves and comfortable when away from the cruel world. Now that doesn't mean she can let herself go, get fat, and be neglectful. They both must have respect for each other and themselves for the relationship to function and grow stronger.
I thought you would say, "Relationships should be equal". That is a very common and destructive illusion. But your take matches a truth I learned many years ago, that all relationship are EXCHANGES. Giving and getting is not "mercenary" but is the natural constant heart of things. You make excellent sense.
awesome discussion, I think this one is central to relationships. only I don't agree with the conclusion about "the most toxic" belief, not even close. the premise here is that we can't be ourselves ..ever. we play a role at work yes, then we essentially are to play a different role, basically go back to work, when arriving home from that sucky work day at the day job? this is a big fat NO as far as I'm concerned. my expression of love for my lady is being glad that she can take *off* all the work armor and be as she really is. that she can do that with me is what I take as an expression of love. I do the same, and expect the same attitude in return. that we have to do heels and suits to go out into the world is a burden society places on us. absolutely I will not carry this burden at home. I'd rather we be naked all the time. to see that she can do the suit to go out the door at all is enough. again, I do the same. so there 😎
Thank you thank you. I hear a lot of men refer to relationships as jobs and all I ever think is..”if you only knew how much I secretly hate my job you wouldn’t want that” 😂
Not easy to find people willing to engage in a friendship. People don't see value in it for some reason. They would rather just watch tik tok than spend time with a friend.
I really like this guy’s content and I agree with a lot if not most of it. That being said, I work and I’m a busy mom of two. I absolutely cannot look stellar every day. I think that’s incredibly unrealistic for many people. I look good when I can. I look great when I can.
So here is the "farmer viewpoint". My great grandparents and my grandparents treated each other with respect. Even in a disagreement, they treated each other with respect. They are thinking of the feelings of the other, and they never once called each other names. Often one of them would go for a walk, or go to their craft room, or just go on the porch to "think a spell on it". Then they would come back to the other and be more calm. As far as "looking nicer for others". Well my grandmothers both wore only face powder, mascara, and lipstick. My mom was more what you would call a "tomboy" never wearing makeup except for special occasions. But they took care of their nails and pedicures and wore nice clothing practical for the weather. On the other hand her sister was always heavily made up and dressed to impress. She had beautiful loungwear for the home, and I only saw her without makeup before bedtime. I would say a woman should be "herself" when it comes to dressing and applying makeup. Because there are jobs who don't like women heavily made up and jobs that do. Likewise there are men who like the "natural look" and those who prefer the "glam look". Now why on God's green earth do we care more about what a woman looks like than her character? How good of a mother is she to your children? What survival skills does she have? Is she resourceful? Is she thrifty? Things that matter more to farmers. I suppose city folk just want the most attractive "arm peice"?
That's right. Even if you're mad at your boss, you don't fly off the handle. You exercise sufficient self-control to restrain yourself, because you understand it would be "inappropriate" to behave that way in the workplace. Those close to us deserve _better_ than the versions of ourselves we give at work. I made an episode on this a while back called, "The gift of your absence: The threshold of tolerance".
@@psychacks I will look for that. And thank you for your efforts and generosity to the community! They are appreciated, even if I might not always agree with your viewpoint.
_"Now why on God's green earth do we care more about what a woman looks like than her character?.. I suppose city folk just want the most attractive "arm peice"?"_ The looks were a specific example by Dr. Taraban, probably from his work I'm guessing. So, some specific man observed that his wife would dress up for work looking sexy but not for him and was displeased by that. It wasn't about _"I want my wife looking sexy all the time around the house"_ , it was about the wife caring more about the work than about him in this regard. So the thing to take from this video for women isn't _"Look pretty for your men, because they want this"_ . The thing to take for women is _"When in a relationship, be the appropriate for relationship best version of yourself, the same way you're the appropriate for work best version of yourself when you're at work"_ . And it's the same thing to take for men, of course.
Oh my god! These are like my thoughts! I have liked the old saying "People have three faces;First is for co-workers. Second is for family and friends and third is the only one person himself knows" Good video!
I liked the views of Buyers, Renters, and Freeloaders by Willard F. Harley. Not making an effort is similar to his definition of a Freeloader. Also, I use headphones, and it would be nice to have sound in both the left & right ear.
You're right that people shouldn't feel free to say and do whatever they damn well please within a relationship. This is certainly an incredibly toxic belief. However, the idea that people are supposed to be performative ("taking on roles") in their relationships is also toxic because it causes inner stress due to a conflict between how one feels and how one acts, although to be fair, this is far less toxic than making your relationship a dumping ground for your negativity like most women do nowadays. We need a better alternative than simply acting the part, and I have an idea. Maybe we should aspire to be loving and peaceful with our partners, knowing this is the right thing to do and conducive to a healthy relationship. Simply having this aspiration in our minds will produce powerfully positive results in most cases; we don't need to pretend or adopt roles. You came close to articulating this idea when you suggested people "channel the best versions of themselves", but that analogy doesn't quite hit the mark, because if we have all these versions of ourselves within us, the result would be multiple personalities and inner fragmentation.
The term role is a more healthy approach to relationships than you may realize. It doesn't cause fragmentation, it defines the boundaries of each person's duties. My in my role as a father, I have drastically different duties to my children than I do to my sister, and my duties to her are different than my duties to my wife, my best friend, my co-workers, my employer, etc. Trying to do away with this is phenomenally unhealthy, and frankly degenerate.
@@Kivlor I never said I want to do away with duties. I just think embracing roles in a performative way - acting the part - isn't going to cut it. You need sincerity and real human feeling, and for that you need aspiration.
Dr. This makes so much sense to me. I just came out of a 24 year marriage and if everybody plays the role in my marriage, we still be together, I would use this in the future for my next relationship. Thank you for a beautiful perspective.
I so absolutely do not want this, I already have a job. And if I could start my work life over from when I was young I'd probably opt to have a small piece of land and work it. It wouldn't ask me to perform a role. It would only ask me to perform. I feel tons of burdens off my shoulders only thinking about it. I'm a people pleaser. And that makes this whole theme a nightmare. You see, I perform my roles too well. As for the sweat pants, if that's what makes her comfortable but she couldn't do that around me I'd feel something would very, very off. Stop impressing me, we're already a couple! Impress me with being you, which is hopefully a kind and caring person. If that's a role to you only, then this whole thing was a mistake. Because I'm kind and caring and that's not a role that is ME. BEING that is the only reason why you want someone in your life. BEING that because you care. If that's a role, then what's the point? Relationships are transactional? That's no approach to ANY relationship, not even professional. It's not been that long since the industrial revolution. Utilitarianism has seeped into every corner of our being. Is it because of the industrial revolution? Is it because of the scientific age and how it took hold? Is this all quiet normal as how we think of ourselves, treat ourselves, each other, is it normal to think "transaction" in all of this? "Transaction" is a valid interpretation. But who are we, that it comes so natural to us? Is that at all "natural"? These are questions. I would argue that there must be more. That the language is making us dumb. A small piece of land... and closer to the roots - not the roles or the language.
Great message. I have always felt that you are not, and thus find time for yourself for a breather vital. Constantly having to be "on“ with your partner can take a toll on you. Makeup, heels etc.: I can see the point, but I think the problem lies in inhuman conditions and artificial beauty styling standards for women, in combo with workforce stress. Men don’t wear uncomfortable and unhealthy makeup, high heels etc., but can be more physically comfortable outside. Women are conditioned to these artificial styles, and often like to leave the physical discomforts of the day behind, when at home, to finally be their natural self. Like a man removing his suit and tie, but even more uncomfortable and unhealthy to begin with. Plus, it’s a modern thing: Makeup was not a common custom until the 20th century, and most women didn’t have to perform in the workforce, but were housewives. That way they were more rested during daytime and didn’t feel the need to change and discern so much between "outside/work“ and "private at home“. Female clothing was more formal and restrictive in general even for homewear in the past, hence there was not as much separation between the spheres. There are modern women who constantly wear makeup, heels or ballet flats etc. at home for their husbands. They prioritise appearance over comfort, health and their natural self. Many of them don’t feel they are presentable in their natural state due to socio-cultural conditioning. There are alternatives to sweatpants that are comfortable but look more put together (i.e. dresses).
I don't think men require much. Women are naturally attractive, and can be more relaxed if they are still conscious of their appearance. Women seem to take too many of their beauty cues from other women. They should take the time to plumb the male thinking.
@@markaurelius61 Men's expectations seem to be diverse. Apparently quite a number of men expect these artificial stylings. Dr. Orion relayed such complaints he frequently hears from men in this episode: those men were upset with their women for putting on "a smart looking outfit, makeup and high heeled shoes for work", and then back home removed all that for "sweatpants"... Women take cues from other women, but also the media and public culture. And men are influenced by socio-cultural conditioning as well, which shapes the expectations of a number of them. In Medieval times men didn't expect high heels and makeup for instance... As I said, there are alternatives to sweatpants that are both comfortable and look put together, i.e. dresses.
A man who expects a pretty wife should also be expected to free her from a job. Problem solved. Your complaining about the type of momma's boys that bring little to the table yet have high expectations.
@@SmartestDumbGuy Maybe you should recommend your solution to the men that Dr. Orion mentioned in this episode, who complained to him about their sweatpant women. This sparked the whole discussion.
@KatharinaKaschka I just did. There is nothing wrong with a man having expectations for a woman as long as he is willing to live up to great expectations himself. If I free up a woman's time with my efforts... she can look great often with her efforts. See how that works?
Man this is the thing that sucks though. The women will just claim that you are being controlling and telling her what to wear at home. Claiming you are the toxic one in the relationship.
I wouldn't give two shits about how my girlfriend dressed at home as long as she's exercising proper personal hygiene, I'd care solely about her not being a dick towards me behavior-wise. Gotta pick your battles.
The Japanese has a saying. Each person has three faces. The first he shows to the outside world, the second to loved ones, the third he shows to no one. I believe it's pretty relevant to this video.
I'm not sure I agree with the premise. If you have to put on a mask, a show, to be in a healthy relationship with someone, how healthy is it really? Like, why would this be required? It sure isn't required for a relationship with my parents. I don't adopt a "son" role when I'm around them, I'm an adult for christ sake. I don't adopt some "friend" role around my close friends either. If they didn't like who I was, they wouldn't be my friends. And if I didn't like who they were, I wouldn't be theirs. Why would it be any different for the supposedly closest and most intimate relationship you can have, that with a lover? Like come on. And no, "being yourself" does not equal being lazy, not trying, not striving to improve. You build yourself and your character into something both you, and other people, enjoy being around. Practice the virtues of honor, gratitude, humility, and so forth, and then people won't demand you change, and be "someone else". That's terrible advice. Even if we buy the premise that we're not supposed to be ourselves, but some other way. What stops us from developing our character until we are that "other way" naturally? Until that "other way" is who we are? Are we *then* allowed to be ourselves, or should we somehow still be different, just because being ourselves supposedly doesn't work? It doesn't make sense.
I love to see men getting this. I was starting to think all men want to be treated like a job when most people HATE their jobs. Why would you compare your relationship behaviors to that
Dr Orion, as a belief, energy and relationship optimization coach myself, I just applied my DEEP (disempowering energy elimination process) technique to get rid of this belief! It actually stemmed from my childhood but thank you for pointing it out for me. I felt such a huge relief when I did this. I’ve been doing this process for years and It’s amazing to discover such beliefs even within myself as a professional! And to also have the tools to dissolve them! if you’re interested in the DEEP to dissolve years of negative beliefs or emotional conditioning within minutes, let me know. I also guarantee my work. Thank you once again.
I would say that this is a talk that only applies to some people. If you can recognize your shortcomings (and of course work on and fix them) and have some basic altruistic tendencies in you, that is, you are ready to do nice things for people you care about to make them happy, and not because you expect anything in return (for example, I want my wife to feel good, so I'll buy her flowers tomorrow: not because I want something from her, but because I want to be happy... let's not discuss the long-term benefits of that for now lol), then you'll still be yourself and carry out your role naturally. In other words, the toxic relationship belief is toxic because of personal inadequacies ranging from lack of care and attention to problematic character traits and behaviors. Speaking of the formal-informal clothing example, it is very much on the money. It makes the man feels like the woman doesn't give a hoot about him in comparison. However, there's another side to this, which a female relative pointed out to me when I mentioned this: quite a few men don't care how they look at home, and look pretty sloppy. That doesn't exactly motivate women to put in effort. On a side note: recently, people complained about only left side of their headphones working. This time, I can also hear this on my PC on speakers, much more than before. When I look at you and hear you speaking, Dr, there seems to be a very minute dissonance between audio and video, which makes me slightly uncomfortable visually (maybe because the sound and your movement don't match) and encourages to just listen, and not watch.
100% true. It doesn't mean that you can't be weak, sad or ill in a relationship at all but you have to try to also show your best side to your partner. I also want to point out that if you love your partner then it won't be hard to try be your best self with them. I found it sad that the only example was about women. Most men forget to court, go on dates in a steady relationship.
Well This explains why everyone is single. If you can't be yourself Why bother. You already have a paying job Now you are saying Your relationship is a job too But an unpaid job. I would be exhausted from my paid job. No energy left for an unpaid job. . No thanks.
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The most toxic relationship belief is also -- unfortunately -- one of the most prevalent. It's so simple that you may not even believe me when I reveal it to you. In so many words, it's the belief that, in your relationship, you are free to be yourself. This is not really true, but believing it is can corrode your relationships from the inside out. In reality, relationships are roles, and you jeopardize the privilege of a relationship to the extent that your behavior is at odds with the expectations associated with your role. I'll discuss more in this episode.
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@Aligned I'd like to kindly point out, from a strangers perspective: You've just dismissed something men value as "superficial," because it's not a priority for YOU.
While I agree that your ex should not have done that, I can imagine that this dismissiveness existed inside the relationship. That's neither helpful nor healthy. If you want a man to take your priorities seriously, you must reciprocate. So must he.
Men WILL NOT share any of their feelings with you if you dismiss a request as simple and easy as wearing attractive clothing as "superficial," and therefore refuse to comply with the request. This doesn't mean heels and a dress or lingerie (necessarily, though it wouldn't scoffed at). Just dress like you were going to eat dinner at a Chilis.
I hope you take this as it's intended: advice, not an attack.
Do you have a thought out list of commkn things that this might apply to, especially in terms of communication?
I'm always reticent to share things with my wife, for fear they will be "a bridge too far," and violate the roles. I hope that's clear.
My wife has said negative things to me that she would NEVER say to anyone else on earth under similar circumstances. ...
- In responding to an expensive necklace I gave her for Christmas she asked rhetorically, "I'm not wearing necklaces now, so why would you do that?"
If anyone else has given her that, she would have shown appreciation. She not only didn't say a word of gratitude or acknowledgement, she didn't even look at me after opening it... And then proceeded to insult me over it!
- When my son was misbehaving and she didn't like how I dealt with him, she said, "Any other man would have grabbed him by the scruff of his neck."
Which is essentially saying to me, "You are the least of all men on Earth."
It is never an excuse for a woman to take her attitude out on someone, especially the person she loves the most, but I will tell you I have experienced this in my marriage and there is something deeply wrong inside the woman’s heart through prayer and study God finally gave me revelation to it Don’t ever give up you made a promise to her if anything you need to pursue her harder just as God pursues us in our sin somedays we loveHim other days, we are so focused on ourselves. We forget about everyone else. Life is pain and suffering and reward. Women Treat us men like we treat God one minute we are appreciating Him and the next we are blaming Him for why everything is messed up. We are our women’s life punching bag, but truly, it may not seem like it but We are also their greatest treasure even though theyseem to never. Hint to that we must outlast their negativity and pain to be the protector and provider we promised them we would be that does not mean continue to take abuse but if you do take abuse, take it and well and draw a boundary we are the leaders we can actually train maturity into our beautiful women. It is our job to be the mature leader that guides our family. Think about her even more than you already do and pray to God to guide you don’t give up we promised we wouldn’t remember that us men are built on our word even when other peoples promises fail ours must not it is who we are
"I was ashamed of myself when I realised that life is a masquerade party, and I attended with my real face" - Franz Kafka
Thank you. Last words of Emperor Augustus: "Have I played the part well? Then applaud me as I exit."
I’m feeling this quote more than ever
"The only time you are free to be completely yourself is when you are alone" - Absolutely true! 👏👍
Why are we conforming to and acting like this is okay? Absofuckinglutely not!
Rip to all the "if you can't handle me at my worst, you don't deserve me at my best" women.
That excuse is a females mantra & license to accept her habitual bad behavior and never accept responsibility for her actions doing the work on herself to improve since I’m perfect already!
Bad behavior is still bad behavior. Lol
If a woman is always at her worst who gives a shit about her best as you never see it.
Yep. Aka "I'm a brat, deal with it."
That does make sense in terms of compatibility, though. There are different tolerance levels in everyone.
It reminds me of what I've heard once : "Being married and having a family is like running a business. If you show up and do the work only when you feel like it, your company is not going to survive long." That being said, I don't think it's realistic or even healthy to expect being always "on" and in your "role" 24/7, the couple just need to agree on the right balance between "dressed up" and "sweatpants" mode and keep to it.
Agreed a day of relaxation, the time to enjoy each other's presence or be alone. Should be agreed upon
I concur. I have been with the same woman for decades. We have adult children. I am willing to forgive mistakes and the occasional bad day- it happens to all of us. But I have no patience for disrespect. And funny thing is, my familial relationships have improved.
Agreed. People get time off and holidays from their work role, too.
of course. Nobody works 24/7 and nobody should be on 100% in a relationship. However you must always be aware and ready to bring your A game at all times!
This lecture made me think very different about why my lady and I broke up after 3 years. I got comfortable with the relationship, and I stopped thinking of it as a privilege like you said. I stopped courting her, I never planned fun dates or vacations. As a result, SHE was usually the one to end up planning the vacations, and it actually caused me to feel rather emasculated sitting on a beautiful beach in Mexico with her and me thinking to myself, "Wow, none of this was my idea, but it COULDVE been." She also seemed to stop trying in her own way with me as a result of my lack of romantic enthusiasm (putting on perfume and doing her hair all sexy for work but then changing into sweatpants and t shirt when she got home). This was the cause of countless fights, which you should also never do (argue with women). I realise now how much I was pointing the finger at her or 'modern women' or 'society corrupting her' when in reality, it is men who lead by example. Women want to follow men but when us men stop being masculine leaders they can look up to, they will also stop making an effort, or just give up and leave. It's a mistake I hope to never make again because I lost good one.
Deep. I agree.
Damn… at least you had the revelation. It takes so much maturity and self reflection to realize the mistakes you’ve made. I’m wowed at your response. What you said is amazing. It’s unfortunate that she completely gave up on the relationship without a full explanation of her needs while the both of you accompany a therapist.
This is the kind of self awareness, accountability and willingness to examine one’s own weaknesses that is very rare to see these days. Respect
I'm not even in a romantic relationship yet, and what you've shared is already very crucial to keep in mind.
Much respect. I really hope you'll find a new love soon (that is, whenever you're open for it again).
Interestingly, there actually seems to be different consensus on who should change first. some people say the onus is on women to change first, and tune into her femininity and that attraction will cause the man to naturally awaken his masculinity (see Fascinating Womanhood the book for this frame of thinking).
Others say like you that it is women who follow men, and but when men stop being masculine leaders, the women follows suit.
To me, part of being in a relationship requires sacrifice. If this relationship falls off course, and both parties fall comfortable, no matter who started to slack off first, i believe it is the person who realizes first who has the obligation to re-ignite that effort in the other. As long as it isnt too late.
That is part of forgiveness, and respecting the investment of time and effort you have in the other partner. Unfortunately it seems both of you realized this too late. I hope your next relationship is a truly successful one my friend. You deserve this happiness for your newly found self-accountability.
This makes 100% sense to me. I've dated women and have been around "woke" individuals who claim they can be "free" and in a monogamous relationship at the same time. If your "freedom" crosses my boundaries, you need to be contrite and honor my boundaries, or else you don't get to participate in an intimate relationship or friendship with me.
Political views are spiritual and not separate from how a person views and acts. Never, ever date a leftist. Read Ecc 10:2, Is 5:20, then when you understand how those two say the same thing, read Ro 1:22. Then when you understand how that plays into the previous 2 verses, read Romans 1:18-32. You'll see current society and where you find yourself in it.
I prefer the term “woke” more than “leftist.” I don’t disagree with everyone on the left, but the “woke” label works well for people whose beliefs are genuinely an exact parallel to a religious, proselytizing extremist zealotry.
They do not live in reality nor seem to want to interact with reality on its terms.
@@hoobeydoobey1267 Damn. It's almost as if Jesus didn't ask us to treat others with humility, generosity and empathy. As if he wasn't criticizing the accumulation of wealth and egoism. Sounds pretty leftist to me.
@@DavZeugme That's because you make God into your image rather than die to self and transform into His. Read Ecc 10:2. God wrote that. Now you know. PS: Did your college prof tell you that belief? Atheist group where you sat stroke each other's ego?
@@hoobeydoobey1267 you should not judge your brothers, for that is God's prerogative. Remember James 4:11-12 or Romans 14:4? It includes your leftist brothers.
Now I understand how my gf feels when I am home from work and I don’t shave, or walk around in my favorite pair of old blue jeans and old shirt. When it’s time for me to leave for work, I tend to put on my “character” of how I want the world to see me. When she comes home from work, she’s always clean, she does her makeup and always smells so fresh. She recently brought this to my attention, but in a way of accusing me of dressing the part for someone else aka other women. I work in a field where 98% of us are men and the handful of women who do work in my field are not my type or even remotely attractive to me. So I would get defensive and have to convey this to her in which she has a hard time believing me. At first I thought it was just her feeling insecure about herself and not trusting me. I’ll admit, I kinda let myself go a little now that I’m in my mid 40’s. The vigor I once had has dwindled some. And I have become a bit complacent expecting her to “accept me for me”.
Thank you for explaining this to me.
I love her and she is the most beautiful and amazing woman I know.
This makes sense to me now.
Thank you for all your content.
I feel like I am really learning a lot about myself and trying to be conscious of those around me with regards to defining my boundaries while showing respect and understanding empathy. 🙏🏽
So are you actually going to do something about it?
@@jdee8407 I read his comment as a yes. He sees the problem and her being worth it. So i think he is gonna put in more effort.
@@ashmonkey2572 j dee putting the guys' feet to the fire immediately lol
@@GoodCharms Ah you read it as more like J Dee asking if he already put in some effort in the month after he posted the comment? Then I really like J Dee's question to be answered.
@@ashmonkey2572 assuming J Dee is female, she's liking Redroad's epiphany and is wanting action taken immediately lol
I agree with you on this one. 100% Always be the best version of yourself with your relationship and let go of the things that don't serve you well.
Good video. I do not like playing a role, and I love the freedom of being myself. This helps to explain why I am happier single. My reaction to the video was basically, "I am retired. I don't want another job." :)
my man
Amen, I don't have the energy to play another role.
bump up this comment
Amen
The only time that you are free to be yourself is when you are alone. We must conform enough to work and stay out of jail..
💯
"Stay out of jail" is the hard part!
Being in a relationship with me is a privilege… I love it thank you
Agreed. This is exactly what I thought when I noticed my GF got lazier over time, putting less effort into everything (exercise, diet, clothing, sex, etc.) that involved us. But! As soon as it involved other people (work, family, friends, literally anything else), more effort was put in.
I talked to her about this and she gave me very modern feminist reasonings, like, "I do what I want". Fair enough! I have changed my level of effort to match hers. Now, we're equal. We don't do things for each other. I'm very productive and learning while she watches her dramas with her snacks.
Soon we'll split and I'll be better off. Always keep your goals and aspirations and take care of yourself.
Seems like you are a weak man. Why not just break up rather letting others break up with u .
Soon? What are you waiting for
Do you think she got lazy completely on her own or could it have been your a fault as well?
@@realSpookexactly
Im just seeing this video now which made me go, "HOW TIMELY!" Had the same issue with my partner a few weeks ago which stacked over months. During a convo about looking good, I told her she doesnt put much work into looking good. Her flex rebuttal was, "Everyone complimented on the fact that I put in work into my make up and clothing choice." after coming back from meeting with her college buddies. I said, "Well, they dont see you on the day to day like I do so of course they would compliment you. They get to see your best while I see the opposite pretty much everyday." She put on make-up and wore something nice the next day without me asking lol. We both work at home so its easy to be lazy. Since then, she puts on make up 4-5 times during the week. The fact that I like being alone makes it easier for me to be cold. Though before, I would tell her, "men are extremely visual creatures" along with denying her sexual advances half the time hoping she would get the idea without hurting her ego. I should have been more straightforward from the get go. I feel I can read between the lines, ppl like attention from the opposite sex. Its just that women have it way easier than men.
I say, dont match her energy. Do better for yourself, go out with your friends or whatever else. Or just straight split ASAP.
I am exactly where I need to be to hear this. I’m so thankful. This is another one I wish I had understood some thirty years ago.
The last great out-of-the-ballpark one I heard here is “You can’t have any relationship you want with any person.”
I’m thankful!
I'm so happy your speaking these things in such a straight forward way. I had an ex that would continually say, "if you loved me then you'd accept me exactly as I am." He could not comprehend that we, meaning both of us, should always be bettering ourselves.
This is the true reason why most relationships don't work.if you never ever have any space to be yourself your mental health suffers.bin there done that, single is bliss.
Yes, those closest to us deserve the best of us.
So true. It's important to be someone with professionalism, discipline, good character etc. Just 'being yourself' should never involve bad behavior.
You're not free to do whatever you want, but in a good relationship, you're not only obligated to give the attention and diligence which the relationship deserves, but you should also be free to receive some of the freedoms that it affords as well. That means sometimes being weak, ugly and unsure, and sharing that with your partner. If a relationship doesn't allow for that then I don't really see the benefit over being alone.
the benefit is having kids and having them in an environment that is conducive for their growth. Being weak, ugly and unsure can be done on your own time and/or in front of a therapist.
@@alexdavila1356 I don't think that's entirely true. Being willing to show weakness to your partner means being honest with your partner, and transparency is vital to a successful relationship. The key is to be making a genuine effort to address the problems together, as opposed to doing nothing and just forcing your partner to accept your flaws as-is. That's what's really a toxic behavior.
@@alexdavila1356 Not everyone wants kids…
@@Lifeishard237 irelevant
@@alexdavila1356 Wow so spot-on. And no, a partner cannot be a therapist. ;)
Yup. The belief that our relationship defies all of the relationship rules of every other relationship -- the thought we can "just relax" in our relationships-- is toxic and lethal.
How the fuck is relaxing with your SO toxic and lethal?
This makes alot of sense. If you are in a relationship with another human being, you should act in a way that helps preserve that relationship not destroy it. This means making an effort and acting with respect and integrity. I had mentioned previously "if you're in a relationship with another human being", because if you want to act anyway you want and not deal with the consequences of such action, then maybe your not ready to be in a relationship with anyone but yourself. *apologies for any grammatical errors English is my 2nd language but I'm working on it 😊
1000% My ex-wife literally said this about 2-3 weeks after we got married as she immediately flipped the switch and turned into an asshole. She admitted she was just manipulating me to get down the aisle and now that we were married she didn’t have to pretend to be someone she was not anymore.
Annulment
God that's rotten. Dump her. Never trust marriage. They all flip a switch after the big day is over
How the fuck do people actually do this…
@@bradleyjackson7168 No not all women flip the switch after marriage. I feel for this guy though that it happened to him.
Femdroid
Probably the most clear and valuable 9 minutes I have ever spent. Subbed.
Another thought provoking video. This channel is quickly becoming one of my favorites. Thank you.
I think what also helps is picking a partner that is happy with your level of effort. Compatibility is immensely important for a long term happy relationship.
This is why I don't wear makeup on the first date. I don't wear make up for most other areas of my life. I want them to know exactly what I look like from the get go.
It's also why my partner did not set the bar high with gifts, flowers, expensive restaurants, etc.
We set these expectations when we date, then later slack off and wonder why our spouse is unhappy with us. It's because the fell in love with the version we presented, not who we actually are.
My fiance and I are very happy.
Does that mean we are 100% ourselves. Probably not. We help each other put. We split chores. We spend time together even if in the moment we want to do soothing else. This is the less fun part but is important to pull your weight.
And of course the good stuff. It is important to engage in love language behaviours, preferably how your partner prefers to receive love. This should be daily and isn't hard once you make it habit.
Look, some people being themselves works. But such people aren't a walking pile of red flags. They are pleasant, agreeable and prioritise teamwork. They deal with stress and conflict well and have good communication skills. They are conscientious, respectful of others and naturally want to pull their weight.
If being 100% you involves toxic or abusive behaviour no one has to accept that, period.
Well said, summarizing many points I've learned over the years and good to put into practice. I especially like your first point about compatibility - often times its about what you do (can this person fit into my lifestyle) rather than what it really is, the level of effort that is expected (a completely different measure). Also, love languages, yes completely. Your interpretation of how you understand love is likely going to be different than your potential partners, important to understand that and address it early on.
Congratulations on finding a compatible person!
@@meder07 thank you!
It did take me going through a toxic, if not abusive, relationship to learn about compatibly and why it's so important. Life experience is valuable and worth paying attention to so we don't make the same mistakes.
Nicely summarized
I've also noticed that a lot of people focus more on their perceived independence over why they actually want a relationship.
Excellent point and nicely stated.
I need all my time for myself, that’s why I hate relationships.
I feel bad for all you young men dating. Don’t marrying them, live with them or have children with them. Work hard, work for yourself and save your money. Buy a house some toys and date casually. I’ve seen so many of my friends get caught in the trap. You will never fully recover from the financial hit she will cost you. I was smarter than the average bear.
Just, "Wow." Jaw-drop. You are on a roll again. Absolutely correct. My 28 year marriage only succeeded to the extent that I was never myself.
Are you saying that that’s why it had to end?
Just found your channel I've already watch nine videos back-to-back. I'm a thirty-eight-year-old intellectual who love psychology and yet I'm hearing a lot of these things for the first time that make a lot of sense. Thank you very much. Subscribed.
This makes 100% sense to me. Modern Women will argue, fight non-stop, disrespect men, but ONLY in personal relationship. In professional relationship these same women know they cannot pull that crap with their bosses bc they will be FIRED immediately.
Women ask yourself - when was the last time you kept arguing with your boss just because you had to be right.
I put some blame on the weak men who don't fire their ass as soon as they talk back or stop doing their job.
Same can be said for some men. People are people jeez
@@FriskyTendervittlesPeople aren't people.
There are qualities, negative or positive, that are generally masculine and those that are feminine.
We don't have to play that "it goes both ways" everytime something is said.
This is so deep! "The truth is an offense but not a sin." It will take some a little time to digest This, disbelieve in it and one day accept it as a fact. Life gets better when you accept the facts.
you must have been a solicitor in your past life😍 you verbalize all the things I was thinking to myself, even wrote in my own journals and told my friends in exact that manner, it feels so good to find someone on yt that shares this view!
I can’t tell how how much your words are needed by me right now. This is like the parent I never had an honest conversation with. Genuinely thank you
This just makes sense for rude, non empathetic people - this folks really need to control themselves 24/7 because they have no natural inclination to acomodate the confort of those around them.
But a fair person needing to control and hide who they are in a relashionship makes no sense - how could I expect my husband to ge home tired and still behaves like he is visiting his gramma?
Expect someone to be our particular "cheerleader" and entertainer is the reason why relashionship don't last anymore- we are treating family like a monetary transaction.
And this is why I value my alone time.
Guilty. My first wife once said "Don't use your *** customer skills on me!" I learned the wrong lesson from that. I failed with my second wife because I didn't use them. Right on with this one.
I lost countless friends n gfs because I “didn’t sell them” nor use “customer service skills” due to shaming from a couple friends and my mother.
They said I was really nice when I sold but they could never trust that person even though my customers profoundly loved me and trusted me while I guided and painstakingly served them in love n respect.
I became a as*hole (in my personal life) while feeling I was ultra honest giving them zero tact and pure transparency (overall).
I got a phobia and became kinda brutally honest no matter the bad feed back I got… because I was giving truth rather then being this toxic manipulator (which I never was).
Your 1000% right. Keep the customer service skills going. They are tactful negotiating skills with delicately intelligent body languaging algorithms with problem solving and caring mixed into reasonable leadership demonstrations.
Makes you a pleasure in a personal relationship.
We need these skills more in personal relationships then anywhere else honestly.
Amazing channel content and great comment 4CardsMan !
The analogy can be taken farther. A customer can choose to stop frequenting a business because, in spite of your attention to good service, a competitor with a perceived better product comes along or she might just become bored with what you have to offer.
This is a very good episode, making an important point with a metaphor that works! The assumption that we can just be ourselves in relationships may also reflect a certain shift in expectation and attitude that may be traceable to the wave of thinking around self-actualization, individual freedom etc that started in the late 60s. This has promoted a certain form of immaturity in which partners are viewed almost like parents who are expected to love unconditionally..
Yes -- I made an episode on that a while back. If you haven't done so already, you can check out "The truth about unconditional love".
@@psychacks Great, thanks!
This sounds a little bit misogynistic imo. Why is that there is no place in your life that you can be yourself and feel comfortable in your own skin? That's what it seems like you are saying. When you are in a relationship, you will likely be together most of the time outside of work and kids if you have them so to say the only time you can be yourself is when you're alone, means that you will likely (never) have time to be yourself. If your partner has a problem with you getting into a comfy t shirt and sweatpants after a long day of work then you need to find a new partner.
I would agree that breaking that relationship contract of sorts, the dynamic of a relationship and certain aspects would likely be a deal breaker for many and a deal breaker for me but I think as you said, it's determined by what you agree apon in the relationship to begin with. It is weird for you to specifically point out women for wearing sweatpants aka (something comfy) and saying that they are not participating in their "role" but I think it would have made more sense to point out that this specific relationship was formed to be that way, rather than just the example itself. In most relationships the example you gave is pretty normal, most people don't mind their spouse getting comfy after work, also most relationships that do work out are ones formed on the premise of both people being themselves so that they can be themselves around the person who already loves everything about them. This to me sounds more like the idea a lot of conservatives have, where they expect people to follow a list of unspoken guidelines. "Socially constructed" guidelines is a very broad thing to say and in that case you could create any rul that you feel is "socially constructed" it's better imo that be determined by the people in the relationship itself not by the world around them because that can lead to a lot of expectations you want but don't get met because not everyone will fit into those "socially constructed" roles.
@@w4rhhwsrje58 doesn't have to tho.
@@Human-Being-Human explain misogyny to me right fkn now you mindless bot
This is where my wife is at right now. She has become withdrawn and negative. Never taking responsibility for her actions or holding herself accountable. Yet, interestingly enough, somehow it is always my fault for her problems. Problems that she has caused. She has shown the majority of signs of depression. Nothing like coming in last for everything Never once understanding that her apathy is the cancer that is eating our relationship alive.
Time to leave.
Wow, that's honest man. And tough.
Get out whilst you can
@@rapamune maybe it's too late
Get out before she drags you down with her
This has been common sense to me for a long time. It's super strange to me that so many of the women I've dated don't seem to understand this. If you're not contributing anything to the relationship, then what reason does the guy have for keeping you around? Isn't the whole point of relationships to do things for one another and serve each other in various ways? If you're not doing that, you're failing at your role in the relationship and are willfully setting yourself up to get "fired." Duh. This seems so obvious.
Thank you for the video.
Agreed. I'd like to add that in addition to feeling cheated, this could fuel any insecurities about the possibility of infidelity being baked into the crust of some workplace relationships.
Previous generations took this to heart. Most parents from the 1950s/1960s were on point 24/7 to their kids and neighbors as reliable citizens, and many now in the 80s+ still have their role instincts. If they were positive and productive, this is a good thing.
Thank you for this topic. This concept has been at the fringes of my mind for some time now and I was never quite able to explain it. You’re absolutely right, and comparing it in terms of our jobs really hit home for me.
I see Dr. Taraban's video and I instantly hit the like button. You're on the verge of garnering the 'GOAT' status due to the quality of your content and your valuable insights. Thank you.
Good video. I am really liking this ongoing analogy you've been using between how we treat people at work versus how we treat people in our personal lives. I think it's a very good way of conceptualizing how we should treat the people in our personal lives with the degree of respect they deserve.
Excellent content. I’m a new subscriber going over your older vids. This one is very clever
I think you have a point, but it's not defined enough, and can be taken too many different ways. I think roles in romantic relationships are built in, and it's mostly natural to follow those roles.
I believe what you are referring to with not being ourselves is our imperfections and our tendency to want to slack, be lazy, or think of ourselves and not consider the other person. Sometimes, it's just pride that gets in the way or the fact that we feel uncomfortable with a certain vulnerability that we aren't used to showing. These toxic things can be natural for us and are part of who we are due to being imperfect and raised certain ways. The good news is that we can change these things within ourselves.
So overall, being our natural selves is a good thing, because we aren't exhausting ourselves by putting up a facade, BUT we have to take into consideration our imperfections.
For example, I've decided years ago to make an effort to practice being myself at ALL times, wherever I go and with whatever I do and around ALL people. Ever since I've began doing this, I've felt so much happier and more free and more energetic and more confident. It works wonders.
Now, I have to hold my tongue sometimes though, because perhaps a leader at work might be extremely inefficient and unwilling to listen, which angers me. Or maybe my natural inclination is to be lazy at work that day. Or perhaps I don't feel like spending time with my girlfriend, because I want too much alone time to focus on other things. To your point, THESE are imperfections that are natural for me that I have to be aware of and exercise self-control with in order to maintain my happiness and my relationships. So be ourselves, but be aware of and temper our imperfections. Not doing this and just following our hearts carelessly can lead to disaster. It really takes some humility.
What you are calling "to practice being myself at ALL times" seems to embody a lot of wisdom or self-awareness, coupled with greater confidence. It sounds very healthy, but that formula won't work for everyone.
@Mark Patterson Practicing being myself included saying what was on my mind out loud, instead of holding it in as only a thought. Making a joke that came to mind even though there is a chance no one would laugh or care, voicing my disagreements, no matter how unpopular my opinion might be, and not being afraid to smile and wave at people when I want to, or compliment a stranger or anybody really, or being honest about embarrassing things about myself, or say "no" to people when appropriate for myself, or tell someone that I do not appreciate something said about me, and not just laugh it off if I didn't feel good about it. Even something like doing random stretches and exercises when I wanted to around groups of people, even if they made fun of me for it. Also, not laughing at jokes I didn't like, such as jokes at someone else's expense or jokes that I felt were shallow and gross just to make the one making the joke feel more comfortable. Or just not changing my demeanor when speaking to someone with lots of power or a woman I felt was extremely beautiful, or a man that looks like an extremely rough gang banger. Treat everyone the same and keep the same boundaries with everyone.
I'm still working on this stuff to be honest, but I've gotten much better. The practice just consists of those little things that I think anyone can start practicing one at a time if they really wanted to, and if they were willing to honestly examine their own behavior.
Excellent message.
My ex wife frequent said “ I just want to be married to someone who “loves me for who I am”.
Sounded initially ok, but I later realized that it really meant that “she was not willing to change and try to be the best version of herself”.
We eventually divorced.
She remarried and divorced again.
When a later girlfriend told me the same thing, MAJOR red flag!!!
Do not commit to a woman that is unwilling to grow.
Run!
This makes so much sense when I think about it now, a relationship is fundementally a process of transaction of values, if the transaction is hindered or stops, the relationship ends.
The lady going out to work looking good for men at work and looking lesser for me, at home, or when we would go out together is a very good point. I confronted my wife with the exact same point. She checked it and changed her behaviour.
You're the lucky one in a million!
This Chanel has grown by 15k in two days. This man is going to be huge!
Great advice for two normal well adjusted people. mix in a full fledged narcissistic personality order and it's impossible to please them... it's not about the relationship it's about them.. period
My left ear learned a lot today...
What happened to the audio? When I put my headphones on only one side could be heard, this is not the same for other videos
This is your best video. Absolutely spot on! Divorced my husband due to this...he was always his best outside the home while having no filter, no hygiene and no manners to me and my son. I am sorry marriage isn't unconditional love. No one can tolerate a double faced person.
I agree in some points. Relationship is a privilege. And its important to have a little "filter" to always be respectfull, reflective etc.
My most concern is: In this way - to not be truly myself - its not a real relationship to me. Its a role I play and a farce in the relationship. I want my partner to truly understand me. To getting know of me everyday. But that cant be done if I play a role. Sure - its important to maintain a healthy relationship in working together, investing time and strength into the partnership by communicating, obverserving and reflecting together. But in my opinion its very diffucult to say: I cant be myself. Even at work I am always truly trying to be myself. Sometimes I need to play a competent role. But thats not the whole story. There are many moments when I am myself. And when other people dont like that - thats okay. But then its not an worthy relationship for me. Because its not "true". To be true to myself means also to be kind to myself. To put makeup on just me to want to feel nice and pretty when Im looking at the mirror. I try to talk to myself in a respectful way.
I am also a little concerned about what that means to me/other people. Because: When does the role of a partner stop? Sure - everyone has moments where he wants other people to please him. The result for me after watching this video is to need to set very clear boundaries, then? Who am I, what do I want to give to this relationship, how far do I want to go before getting loose of myself. Because that cost a lot of strength.
No. The more I think about it, the more I dislike that. Because I am always trying to be real. And I play no role. Only, when its really important to meet needs (!). But everyone else have to accept that how I am. I am not such competent at work and thats okay. But its not a good job for me, where I can not be real. Its not my purpose of life then.
This channel and Dr. T has made me feel so much better about filling divorce.
This is a no brainer, yet it’s simple. In relationships there are expectations, if you fail and disappoint you won’t get what you need from it
He's helping me do a major overhaul of my understanding of "relationships." Romantic notions are getting plowed under. It's very good.
I tired the "clock in and do not even try" strategy at work. The bosses eventually figured it out and pretending to work was almost as much effort as working anyway.
More on topic, there is a quote "Be the best version of yourself for a given situation."
This is absolutely genius. This is something that I always knew but didn't know how to put that into words or explain why this is. Good video.
Wow this great sir ! Opens the mind to some in depth things going on in relationships. Me personally my gf doesn’t dress up for work by choice and she dresses up for me and or wears sexy clothes for when I come home from work ! I don’t have to wonder “ why does she get dressed up so nice for work and looks like crap at home with me. I’ve been with a woman like that before it was frustrating. More ppl need to see this !!!!
This is one of my favorite channels on TH-cam and climbing every day. Outstanding and thought provoking content which can be used in our daily lives.
Couple of things. First, when dating one primary thing I look for is that I enjoy her when she is just being herself and she enjoys me when I am just being myself. Also when dating and things look promising I make sure we have discussions about what the partnership part of our relationship will look like. Things like what things in the partnership will I handle, what will she handle. Those discussions help she and I have an idea what roles each of us will play.
Yeah, but unfortunately those ideas are seen through rose-colored glasses in the beginning stages of dating and relationships. The cold hard reality that comes with time seldom matches up to what you were discussing with her in the beginning.
@@kylefournier4254 I use the discussion about who does what to get a sense of how her values and mine might work together. In many cases nothing came later because I sensed the woman was just running her mouth rather than making a commitment to working as a partner. Things will change in any partnership. Having practiced 'finding what works for both' early in the relationship means she and I can far more easily 'work past' changes.
Some ways you can deal with the stress that comes from upholding your roles in relationships and life is to participate in sports/exercise, pray/meditate, or go hiking in nature/camping/hot springs. You can do it alone or with close family/friend.
Love the videos, they are to me a longer way of saying "stay single".
Then you are really missing the point - because these principles about relationships and your professional life are not mutually exclusive
@@ThorMaximus Your missing the point that work life and personal life isn't the same thing. That and the blue collar world seems to function just fine without sticking a stick up their ass every day.
💯 percent spot on. You can't be casual about life otherwise you end up being a casualty. Life is a serious business. Relationships are part of that business...
I agree with the first part of this, specifically that a relationship, especially being married to another human being is a privilege. But I don't agree that men whose wives get dressed up for work and dressed down at home to sweatpants are feeling hurt and cheated. Hard-working men that dress for work every day understand why their women come home and get comfortable. They appreciate that she is working hard to bring home a paycheck for the household, and they want her to relax and be comfortable in their shared space. It's ridiculous for a man to expect her to dress up at home with high heels after working hard all day. Home is a couple's sanctuary where they can be themselves and comfortable when away from the cruel world. Now that doesn't mean she can let herself go, get fat, and be neglectful. They both must have respect for each other and themselves for the relationship to function and grow stronger.
Thank you for making sense of how a previous relationship went south due to this behaviour and how I saw it at the time.
Audio is only in left channel.
yep, confirming. tough on headphone listening.
I thought it was my cheapish*t earphones again
I thought you would say, "Relationships should be equal". That is a very common and destructive illusion. But your take matches a truth I learned many years ago, that all relationship are EXCHANGES. Giving and getting is not "mercenary" but is the natural constant heart of things. You make excellent sense.
Reciprocal, sure.
Mutually beneficial, among others.
And... 'Mercenary' works, if one gets paid.
awesome discussion, I think this one is central to relationships. only I don't agree with the conclusion about "the most toxic" belief, not even close. the premise here is that we can't be ourselves ..ever. we play a role at work yes, then we essentially are to play a different role, basically go back to work, when arriving home from that sucky work day at the day job? this is a big fat NO as far as I'm concerned.
my expression of love for my lady is being glad that she can take *off* all the work armor and be as she really is. that she can do that with me is what I take as an expression of love. I do the same, and expect the same attitude in return.
that we have to do heels and suits to go out into the world is a burden society places on us. absolutely I will not carry this burden at home. I'd rather we be naked all the time. to see that she can do the suit to go out the door at all is enough. again, I do the same.
so there 😎
Thank you thank you. I hear a lot of men refer to relationships as jobs and all I ever think is..”if you only knew how much I secretly hate my job you wouldn’t want that” 😂
I agree. A family is work and you can't work 24/7. The same goes for relationships.
Not easy to find people willing to engage in a friendship. People don't see value in it for some reason. They would rather just watch tik tok than spend time with a friend.
I really like this guy’s content and I agree with a lot if not most of it. That being said, I work and I’m a busy mom of two. I absolutely cannot look stellar every day. I think that’s incredibly unrealistic for many people. I look good when I can. I look great when I can.
So here is the "farmer viewpoint". My great grandparents and my grandparents treated each other with respect. Even in a disagreement, they treated each other with respect. They are thinking of the feelings of the other, and they never once called each other names. Often one of them would go for a walk, or go to their craft room, or just go on the porch to "think a spell on it". Then they would come back to the other and be more calm.
As far as "looking nicer for others". Well my grandmothers both wore only face powder, mascara, and lipstick. My mom was more what you would call a "tomboy" never wearing makeup except for special occasions. But they took care of their nails and pedicures and wore nice clothing practical for the weather. On the other hand her sister was always heavily made up and dressed to impress. She had beautiful loungwear for the home, and I only saw her without makeup before bedtime. I would say a woman should be "herself" when it comes to dressing and applying makeup. Because there are jobs who don't like women heavily made up and jobs that do. Likewise there are men who like the "natural look" and those who prefer the "glam look".
Now why on God's green earth do we care more about what a woman looks like than her character? How good of a mother is she to your children? What survival skills does she have? Is she resourceful? Is she thrifty? Things that matter more to farmers. I suppose city folk just want the most attractive "arm peice"?
That's right. Even if you're mad at your boss, you don't fly off the handle. You exercise sufficient self-control to restrain yourself, because you understand it would be "inappropriate" to behave that way in the workplace. Those close to us deserve _better_ than the versions of ourselves we give at work. I made an episode on this a while back called, "The gift of your absence: The threshold of tolerance".
@@psychacks I will look for that. And thank you for your efforts and generosity to the community! They are appreciated, even if I might not always agree with your viewpoint.
_"Now why on God's green earth do we care more about what a woman looks like than her character?.. I suppose city folk just want the most attractive "arm peice"?"_
The looks were a specific example by Dr. Taraban, probably from his work I'm guessing. So, some specific man observed that his wife would dress up for work looking sexy but not for him and was displeased by that.
It wasn't about _"I want my wife looking sexy all the time around the house"_ , it was about the wife caring more about the work than about him in this regard.
So the thing to take from this video for women isn't _"Look pretty for your men, because they want this"_ . The thing to take for women is _"When in a relationship, be the appropriate for relationship best version of yourself, the same way you're the appropriate for work best version of yourself when you're at work"_ . And it's the same thing to take for men, of course.
@@KulaGGin Yes I understand. This was a bit of humor on my part. I suppose I have been talking with my British friends too much lately. 😗
Thank you, Dr. Orion. I really needed to hear that. Noticed some slacking in myself that needs to be corrected.
"All the world is a stage..." ~ William Shakespeare. Yes, it is still a fact.
Oh my god! These are like my thoughts! I have liked the old saying "People have three faces;First is for co-workers. Second is for family and friends and third is the only one person himself knows" Good video!
I liked the views of Buyers, Renters, and Freeloaders by Willard F. Harley. Not making an effort is similar to his definition of a Freeloader. Also, I use headphones, and it would be nice to have sound in both the left & right ear.
It is a privilege indeed. What invaluable perspective and insight . Thank you
You're right that people shouldn't feel free to say and do whatever they damn well please within a relationship. This is certainly an incredibly toxic belief. However, the idea that people are supposed to be performative ("taking on roles") in their relationships is also toxic because it causes inner stress due to a conflict between how one feels and how one acts, although to be fair, this is far less toxic than making your relationship a dumping ground for your negativity like most women do nowadays. We need a better alternative than simply acting the part, and I have an idea. Maybe we should aspire to be loving and peaceful with our partners, knowing this is the right thing to do and conducive to a healthy relationship. Simply having this aspiration in our minds will produce powerfully positive results in most cases; we don't need to pretend or adopt roles. You came close to articulating this idea when you suggested people "channel the best versions of themselves", but that analogy doesn't quite hit the mark, because if we have all these versions of ourselves within us, the result would be multiple personalities and inner fragmentation.
The term role is a more healthy approach to relationships than you may realize. It doesn't cause fragmentation, it defines the boundaries of each person's duties. My in my role as a father, I have drastically different duties to my children than I do to my sister, and my duties to her are different than my duties to my wife, my best friend, my co-workers, my employer, etc. Trying to do away with this is phenomenally unhealthy, and frankly degenerate.
@@Kivlor I never said I want to do away with duties. I just think embracing roles in a performative way - acting the part - isn't going to cut it. You need sincerity and real human feeling, and for that you need aspiration.
Thank you.
Dr. This makes so much sense to me. I just came out of a 24 year marriage and if everybody plays the role in my marriage, we still be together, I would use this in the future for my next relationship. Thank you for a beautiful perspective.
I so absolutely do not want this, I already have a job. And if I could start my work life over from when I was young I'd probably opt to have a small piece of land and work it. It wouldn't ask me to perform a role. It would only ask me to perform. I feel tons of burdens off my shoulders only thinking about it. I'm a people pleaser. And that makes this whole theme a nightmare. You see, I perform my roles too well. As for the sweat pants, if that's what makes her comfortable but she couldn't do that around me I'd feel something would very, very off. Stop impressing me, we're already a couple! Impress me with being you, which is hopefully a kind and caring person. If that's a role to you only, then this whole thing was a mistake. Because I'm kind and caring and that's not a role that is ME. BEING that is the only reason why you want someone in your life. BEING that because you care. If that's a role, then what's the point? Relationships are transactional? That's no approach to ANY relationship, not even professional. It's not been that long since the industrial revolution. Utilitarianism has seeped into every corner of our being. Is it because of the industrial revolution? Is it because of the scientific age and how it took hold? Is this all quiet normal as how we think of ourselves, treat ourselves, each other, is it normal to think "transaction" in all of this? "Transaction" is a valid interpretation. But who are we, that it comes so natural to us? Is that at all "natural"? These are questions. I would argue that there must be more. That the language is making us dumb. A small piece of land... and closer to the roots - not the roles or the language.
Bravo!
@@MsInsaneNMembrane Thank you. That made me feel less alone with these notions.
This is the reason I love being alone.
I think there is an issue with the sound. On headset, it's only left.
I actually agree, but it doesn't make me want another relationship
Great message. I have always felt that you are not, and thus find time for yourself for a breather vital. Constantly having to be "on“ with your partner can take a toll on you. Makeup, heels etc.: I can see the point, but I think the problem lies in inhuman conditions and artificial beauty styling standards for women, in combo with workforce stress. Men don’t wear uncomfortable and unhealthy makeup, high heels etc., but can be more physically comfortable outside. Women are conditioned to these artificial styles, and often like to leave the physical discomforts of the day behind, when at home, to finally be their natural self. Like a man removing his suit and tie, but even more uncomfortable and unhealthy to begin with. Plus, it’s a modern thing: Makeup was not a common custom until the 20th century, and most women didn’t have to perform in the workforce, but were housewives. That way they were more rested during daytime and didn’t feel the need to change and discern so much between "outside/work“ and "private at home“. Female clothing was more formal and restrictive in general even for homewear in the past, hence there was not as much separation between the spheres. There are modern women who constantly wear makeup, heels or ballet flats etc. at home for their husbands. They prioritise appearance over comfort, health and their natural self. Many of them don’t feel they are presentable in their natural state due to socio-cultural conditioning. There are alternatives to sweatpants that are comfortable but look more put together (i.e. dresses).
I don't think men require much. Women are naturally attractive, and can be more relaxed if they are still conscious of their appearance. Women seem to take too many of their beauty cues from other women. They should take the time to plumb the male thinking.
@@markaurelius61 Men's expectations seem to be diverse. Apparently quite a number of men expect these artificial stylings. Dr. Orion relayed such complaints he frequently hears from men in this episode: those men were upset with their women for putting on "a smart looking outfit, makeup and high heeled shoes for work", and then back home removed all that for "sweatpants"... Women take cues from other women, but also the media and public culture. And men are influenced by socio-cultural conditioning as well, which shapes the expectations of a number of them. In Medieval times men didn't expect high heels and makeup for instance... As I said, there are alternatives to sweatpants that are both comfortable and look put together, i.e. dresses.
A man who expects a pretty wife should also be expected to free her from a job. Problem solved.
Your complaining about the type of momma's boys that bring little to the table yet have high expectations.
@@SmartestDumbGuy Maybe you should recommend your solution to the men that Dr. Orion mentioned in this episode, who complained to him about their sweatpant women. This sparked the whole discussion.
@KatharinaKaschka I just did. There is nothing wrong with a man having expectations for a woman as long as he is willing to live up to great expectations himself.
If I free up a woman's time with my efforts... she can look great often with her efforts. See how that works?
Totally agree with you and the most important is that it needs to come from sides
Man this is the thing that sucks though. The women will just claim that you are being controlling and telling her what to wear at home. Claiming you are the toxic one in the relationship.
I wouldn't give two shits about how my girlfriend dressed at home as long as she's exercising proper personal hygiene, I'd care solely about her not being a dick towards me behavior-wise. Gotta pick your battles.
If shes telling you that your doing something else wrong.
The Japanese has a saying. Each person has three faces. The first he shows to the outside world, the second to loved ones, the third he shows to no one. I believe it's pretty relevant to this video.
I'm not sure I agree with the premise. If you have to put on a mask, a show, to be in a healthy relationship with someone, how healthy is it really? Like, why would this be required? It sure isn't required for a relationship with my parents. I don't adopt a "son" role when I'm around them, I'm an adult for christ sake. I don't adopt some "friend" role around my close friends either. If they didn't like who I was, they wouldn't be my friends. And if I didn't like who they were, I wouldn't be theirs. Why would it be any different for the supposedly closest and most intimate relationship you can have, that with a lover? Like come on.
And no, "being yourself" does not equal being lazy, not trying, not striving to improve. You build yourself and your character into something both you, and other people, enjoy being around. Practice the virtues of honor, gratitude, humility, and so forth, and then people won't demand you change, and be "someone else". That's terrible advice.
Even if we buy the premise that we're not supposed to be ourselves, but some other way. What stops us from developing our character until we are that "other way" naturally? Until that "other way" is who we are? Are we *then* allowed to be ourselves, or should we somehow still be different, just because being ourselves supposedly doesn't work? It doesn't make sense.
I love to see men getting this. I was starting to think all men want to be treated like a job when most people HATE their jobs. Why would you compare your relationship behaviors to that
Every video blows my mind with new knowledge I've always known.
Being yourself in a relationship/marriage doesn't mean you can fart in front of your partner. That's such disrespect!
If you can’t fart infront of your partner then geta new partner
@@user-lc5ix6qm5h Is that what Islam and your Prophet teach you?
Dr Orion, as a belief, energy and relationship optimization coach myself, I just applied my DEEP (disempowering energy elimination process) technique to get rid of this belief! It actually stemmed from my childhood but thank you for pointing it out for me. I felt such a huge relief when I did this. I’ve been doing this process for years and It’s amazing to discover such beliefs even within myself as a professional! And to also have the tools to dissolve them! if you’re interested in the DEEP to dissolve years of negative beliefs or emotional conditioning within minutes, let me know. I also guarantee my work. Thank you once again.
I would say that this is a talk that only applies to some people. If you can recognize your shortcomings (and of course work on and fix them) and have some basic altruistic tendencies in you, that is, you are ready to do nice things for people you care about to make them happy, and not because you expect anything in return (for example, I want my wife to feel good, so I'll buy her flowers tomorrow: not because I want something from her, but because I want to be happy... let's not discuss the long-term benefits of that for now lol), then you'll still be yourself and carry out your role naturally.
In other words, the toxic relationship belief is toxic because of personal inadequacies ranging from lack of care and attention to problematic character traits and behaviors.
Speaking of the formal-informal clothing example, it is very much on the money. It makes the man feels like the woman doesn't give a hoot about him in comparison. However, there's another side to this, which a female relative pointed out to me when I mentioned this: quite a few men don't care how they look at home, and look pretty sloppy. That doesn't exactly motivate women to put in effort.
On a side note: recently, people complained about only left side of their headphones working. This time, I can also hear this on my PC on speakers, much more than before. When I look at you and hear you speaking, Dr, there seems to be a very minute dissonance between audio and video, which makes me slightly uncomfortable visually (maybe because the sound and your movement don't match) and encourages to just listen, and not watch.
100% true. It doesn't mean that you can't be weak, sad or ill in a relationship at all but you have to try to also show your best side to your partner. I also want to point out that if you love your partner then it won't be hard to try be your best self with them. I found it sad that the only example was about women. Most men forget to court, go on dates in a steady relationship.
Well
This explains why everyone is single.
If you can't be yourself
Why bother.
You already have a paying job
Now you are saying
Your relationship is a job too
But an unpaid job.
I would be exhausted from my paid job.
No energy left for an unpaid job.
.
No thanks.
Excellent.
Thank you for sharing.
My left ear enjoyed this video.