Support me on Patreon: www.patreon.com/discourseminiatures Link to MERCH: discourse-miniatures.creator-spring.com/ Link to my Discord: discord.gg/gkfxppuXrN Noble Knight Games (US-based Affiliate link):www.nobleknight.com/affiliate/aw.asp?B=3&A=1160&Task=Click Element Games (UK-based Affiliate link): elementgames.co.uk/?d=10711 Alternatively, you can give a one-time tip via Ko-fi: ko-fi.com/discourse
Hey Discourse, Great video. I run a Befores & Afters school care program in Australia. The value of wargaming is great as its getting my year 1's and year 2's INTRESTED in READING, MATHS, and CHAOS THEORY! However parents not liking guns means we are limited to some systems. Another is I dont want them to support GW or maybe another company thats Anti consumer. A part for creating our own gaming system (I am thinking about it) What can we do?
@@radeadcool Age of Fantasy might be a good one to try out? It's the Fantasy equivalent of Grimdark Future :) You could also try out Warsurge which lets you build your own custom factions! So you could use anything you want and totally curate the contents!
OPR is great, however one thing I'll add is that while yes, the whole single page, simple thing is super cool and that's what makes it attractive, the additional rules in the $5 Patreon expanded rules can make the game satisfyingly dense if that's your thing. The nice part though is while they're adding complexity, it's all well done and builds on the rules instead of just jammed in because models got to get sold and a codex gotta sell.
GDF is the game 8th 40k wanted to be (but failed), and the extended rules are what 9th wants to be (but fails) so it is the perfect game for all those who like the current version of 40k but not what GW is doing
@Hans Otterson GW is kind of overdoing the lore anyway. 40k was good when the lore sat quietly in the background and let you tell your own stories. Now it changes every five minutes and seems to demand its own place at the table. It's loud, it's obnoxious, it's poorly written, and it's stifling the game.
Hell yes, OPR is far better on table, no dead time, real strategy even with low power units (gretchins/space goblins can steal the victory). My wife after the first 40k game : « Never again ! » After first Grimdark Future game : « Give me more ! » 😅
Also, for those that are concerned about the lack of OPR Lore, let me in on you a little secret... I use my 40k war dollies for OPR and use all the GW terms and lore while doing it and I. Don't. Even. Care. Take that Mr. Workshop!
I support any rule set that lets you use your minis and avoid GW cash milking. Honestly they are out of control these days and only cutting back and starving GW out can anyone hope they change their path. I’ll give these rules a look.
Grim Dark Futures reminds me of 40k 3rd edition (before all the codexs). It's well balanced and accessible. As a parent in his 30s I just don't have the cognitive space in my head to remember a myriad of rules of special powers... Screw command points or strategems... Just give me some men and some dice...
I played 3rd -5th edition. 4th and 5th were refinements of 3rd IMO. I generally agree with you, but the codexes were not always well-balanced with each other. Among the three, I prefer 5th edition.
Trying to juggle all the complexities of daily life, _on top of_ keeping up with 40K's complicated and ever-shifting rules and meta, sounds like a cognitive nightmare. Remaining on pace with 40K's meta is effectively a second job. Not everyone has that kind of time, let alone mental energy. (As an aside, I suspect many people get so loyal to and defensive about 40K because they spend a majority of their free time thinking about it. Whether it's the game itself or the fiction that surrounds it, 40K leaves no room for anything else. It's a black hole, swallowing your time and money. _Of course_ people will defend it. It would be cognitive dissonance to admit they wasted their time.) The One Page Rules system is ideal for anyone who cannot or doesn't want to commit to this second job. You don't need to read a brick of a manual every few years, nor read scores of pages of dense rules text for your army (and, let's face it, _everyone else's_ army, because you need to know what you're up against). You don't need to keep up with massive meta changes every month. You can just show up and play. You know, like a game. Grimdark Future returns 40K to being a game you play _for fun._ It's not more work.
@@Bluecho4 just let me add that you can choose the army you like and have fun with it!! In 40k if you choose a last year codex and you play against a last month codex you get tabled turn two because of the codex creep!! No meta chasing here💋
Most important sentence - strategy comes using your units (attck, positions, etc), not from intereactions of rules. It just highlighted how bad it is with GW -> it is more about executing combos, like munchkin breaking ttrpg he plaied for X years
@@doctordoubledakka3939 with WH it is somewhat like it is with "real" war - battles are won before they start. WIth list-building, bringing and executing some combo from new codex. You can win with old codex, but it is working around your weak mechanic, and still looking for some combo to be effective. "Strategy" is important, but it is second to combos and rules interctions
@@WladcaPodziemia Just because both sides believe they have won, before they have begun, does not mean they will, and in fact, both sides cannot win. Working within ur limitations(rules) and synergizing your strengths(combos) are part of tactics. That doesn't mean the game is perfectly balanced, it doesn't mean its easy to memorize every datasheet and stratagem from every book. But if you use solid tactics, the only thing you have to fear is the dice. If all you roll are 1's; tactics, stratagems, flat damage 12 cannons don't matter. Luck - Skill - overpower-minis; in that order
So here's my take on OPR's GF set of rules. The free version is the condensed, fits on a double page, beer and pretzles type of game. But if you join the Patreon for one month which is like five quid, you get the full set which is like... 30 pages? And you get access to the points builder which cannot be overstated in its usefulness since it allows you to build your own troops. My take on OPR's rule model is that it is _very_ similar to what's happening in the indie roleplaying game scene since a few years back. In that corner of the nerdy hobby space, a lot of effort has gone into making games that are easily accessible and above all "hackable". As in, everyone and their cousin are writing games, short games usually and everyone is borrowing ideas and rule mechanisms from each other. Making a variant of someone else's rules, to be used with those rules or as a separate system is called to do a hack. And that's how I see OPR's Grimdark Future. The rules themselves are a streamlined melange of different modern trends in miniature rules writing and they work very smoothly for their intended use. The smoothness and lack of involved mechanics is the whole point. The main advantage of this might be seen as being able to play the quick but tactical lite blaster bashes you describe, but in reality the thing is that you can so very easily modify and hack this system without the core rules breaking when you do so. Seriously, I'm currently using this set as the foundation for variants to play CthulhuTech mechas vs. monsters battles, Horus Heresy battles and a WW2 battalion level game. It really is that solid at its core to be able to take the additional rule add-ons to make very different feeling games. OPR's rules are the equivalent of building and kitbashing your own minis, but for rules. They're a hobbyist's rules, rather than a consumer's. THAT is how it differs from Warhammer rather than in perceived depth or width. GW has fed a generation of gamers to expect to be told how to play. OPR lets you play like you want to. This ofc means more work on the hobbyist's part, since you have to decide or find out what you actually want and why. But the thing is, the basic OPR set up is easy enough to rope people who haven't learned how to think for themselves when it comes to rules yet and still let them have a fun time blaster bashing their space toys off a table. Hopefully they'll come for the easily digestible entree and stay for the communal cook out. OPR is open source, mod friendly, community based gaming. GW is corporate force fed consumerism. I know where I want to play with my little space and fantasy toys. PS. Get well soon!
Oh yeah I totally agree with you. I wanted to review what was presented to the player for free (I didn't really look at the paid for options for this video - maybe I will in future). But the game itself is super duper light, very easy to hang whatever you want on top!
One advantage of the simplicity of the OPR rules is that they're so much easier to tweak if you don't like bits of them. I don't mind activating units alternatively, but activation like Bolt Action's dice-based method is fun, gives a similar feel and balances things better if the two sides don't have similar numbers of units.
One of the things that opened up OPR for me was the idea that you can combine.... any forces. So my Eternal Wardens can be joined by a large detachment of human soldiery from their home city, with cannons, pikes and golden giants smashing to earth from the heavens. Perfect, no need to remember rules, keywords, detachments, whatever. It's simple! I want a Lust Daemon army? Havoc warriors + some rift daemons and no one can say 'well you forgot that these don't fit into that force blah blah blah' as long as I stay within my points. Endless flavour to my armies, the only restriction is in tournaments 60% of your points must be from one force. It's amazing.
That's one of the big things for me that 40k has massive mechanical issues with. Every army list is totally inflexable, so either you ignore the rules to play a more narrative grouping, or you suffer mechanically. Meanwhile under OPR's more open rule set, if a ragtag band of Guard, Tau, Eldar and Marines need to work together against the Chaos horde besieging the prison they're holed up in? As long as the points are about the same, it all works. Chaos has demons, marines and cultists without penalty. The defenders having a single Leman Russ at the gates, a handful of marines, a Banshee Exarch and Tau Pathfinders? No penalty. And yes, that _is_ basically a 40k equivalent of *the Battle of Castle Itter* as a scenario, kudos for noticing.
Great video! My 12yo son and I bought into 40k when the pandemic hit and we needed something that we could do. Bought all the minis, the books, etc., and then when it came time to play found 40k to be slow, cumbersome, and waaay to difficult for two new wargamers to play. My son especially found that waiting 45 minutes for his turn to be too length and well, boring. But we were totally hooked on the lore. Then I found OPR Grimdark and we've been playing ever since. The rules are fun, and with the complete rulebook, gave us more than enough variation to keep us interested. I found a sector map generator for Traveler RPG, assigned homeworlds to all our minis and we've embarked on a 1 year campaign to see who conquers all! And we've kept the lore from 40k that we both really love. We can play a game easily on a Saturday afternoon, probably two before we both want to veg out and talk smack to each other about the game we just played and the next to come. We love the 40k lore, the minis, but not the bloated slow-motion gameplay. So long 40k and thanks for all the fish!
Playing OPR for about a year now. Its so refreshing to play a few games, chat and drink some beer. Without permanently interrupted by searching the right rule reference or unit exception bla.
Last update balance messed up 5 out 6 of my Crusade forces. I was pissed off to no end. That, plus the ever-growing bloat of rule layers - army wide, faction wide, subfaction wide, auras, keywords combos, stratagems, etc. - pushed me to OPR once and for all, even though I was a Patreon subscriber since a few months. I combined a few house rules for command, shamelessly stolen from the old Dust Warfare rulebook by Andy Chambers, and I'm mighty fine. It's great to have rules for my tastes (suppression) and build small, thematic armies that are a pleasure to put together, paint, and play on the table. Won't be coming back anytime soon.
I know the feeling, i played (tried to play) Imperial Gaurd and was my first internation with the WH40K community. The way they did matchs was everyone would put their name an army into a hat, all random BUT for some strange reason i was 9 out of 10 the last one to be called, then to learn my opponent either had to drop out or him and the last group wanted a 3 way game leaving me out of it. It continued when i was asked "why i decided to play the fascists" to a 13yr boy that just wanted to join in with army he liked the look of. Glad i left after catching the piece of sh!t that was stealing my miniatures. Lost 1 lemen Russ, 15 guardsman (i had 40) And my entire HQ witch was smashed.
All the best, Discourse. Take it slow even when you're getting better. Half of my colleagues have it at the moment, and this shit has a nasty habbit of coming back with a vengeance right when you start feeling better. As to OPR, I am a full convert myself. The best thing I can say about it is that the armies feel like their GW counterparts, without the rules clutter.
Why the company must drown everyone in such endless convoluted rules is so beyond my understanding. Alternating activations is THE way forward - its more interactive, faster gameplay, better paced, less of a headache....
It's awesome to see a big name cover OPR!! Yes yes yes. The thing I LOVE the most is the alternating activations. Really keeps you in the game, and just like you said it helps stop 1-2turn wipes
Thanks to your video I gave it a go and OMG this is just so good! One "rulebook", few "army-pages" and like a dozen battle report videos later I can easily say I'm in. Thanks for shilling for Grimdark Future. This is exactly what I needed in my life (and for my armies).
I would also mention that the Patreon also includes a points calculator that you can use to create custom units or adjust existing ones. Combined with 3D printing, it's possible to create an entirely unique army that fits within the rules. The calculator is not set to the latest beta ruleset at the moment, but it should be in time.
Grimdark Firefight and Age of Fantasy skirmish are also good alternatives to GWs offerings and are free. Though to be fair I’d have happily paid for both rulesets as they are that good.
My favorite thing about OPR is that no matter what you're playing, the rules are basically universal across Grimdark Future and Age of Fantasy. Technically, (probably with minor adjustments) my Fantasy Empire army could go up against some Chaos Space Marines!
Grimdark future has a lore, it's called warhammer 40k, you can totally read the story of your army and stuff..and play with grimdark future rules, I do that.
Alternating activation is my favorite turn progression. I agree, there is nothing like waiting for a horde army to move 100-200 models, or watching your whole army melt away in one turn of shooting. I really want to get into One Page Rules. Plus Grim Dark Future is one system, there is a skirmish game, as well as Fantasy.
Nice! I had heard of One Page rules. The alternating activation model makes me very open to trying the game. I have old Tyranid and Tau models I refuse to sell gathering dust I can use.
Wonderful Game system. You can pay a modest one-time fee for the expanded rules in lieu of the subscription. I have been gaming since the early eighties, and I have seen a lot of change in the various gaming business models. Grim Dark from OPR offers the player some unique aspects compared to the "established" gaming eco-systems. Chief among them are flexibility in miniatures on the table, and flexibility to mod and/or adjust the rules as the PLAYERS see fit. This leads to a much better experience, IMHO, than many of the other (overly complex and restrictive) rule systems out there. I highly recommend you give it a try.
It's worth mentioning that this game also has a SOLO option or "Same Side" where you could play with a buddy against an enemy controlled via a behavior chart of simple If/then arguments). Perfect for teaming up with newbies or kids against a mutual foe controlled by the game. I've seen a game bat rep video done with both sides run as "Artificial Intelligence" and it was a real nail biter. For those asking about the extras for the paid rules, the added content is not required to enjoy the game but really does give you a lot of options to play the way you want. Including multi basing smaller scale models. Hard agree on the wonders of OPR and some of the new forces in development (Jackals for example) are really interesting.
It is worth mentioning that being an OPR Patreon gets you access to the Point Calculator, allowing you to design or modify units. Which can be combined with other Patreons for other miniature creators. Print Minis, for a not-at-all-random example, creates minis for scenarios - with models from two factions and a monster or three thrown in. I get more use from Print Minis now, simply because now I have a rules system to hang the scenarios on. (More accurately, I statted Outbreak in an Evil Lab! for Grimdark Future: Firefight - and it was a blast. Not to mention, the 1960s Sci Fi TV feel of Outbreak in an Evil Lab! - I swear, it felt like something from Gerry Anderson.)
It is truly the golden age of miniatures. When I was a kid (back in the 80s) miniatures were mostly fantasy-themed and not very detailed. I had to travel 30 miles to a magazine and cigar/pipe tobacco store that also sold miniatures. The smell of pipe tobacco still takes me back... The store also sold swords hidden inside of walking canes. Man I really wanted one of those. Nothing suspicious about a 12 year-old kid with a walking cane right?
Great Job Discord. Make a follow up vid on Onepagerules $5 expansion book. It is 32 pages of optional rules that will make the game a complicated as you like. Totally worth the money and you get free updates to the book. So the Onepagerules name is misleading. They have universal strategems, extra actions, random events, battlefield condition, fog of war, suppression, and more. I really like one of the turn sequence options. just like Bolt action. Each player puts one dice for each unit in a bag. Then you draw a die out of a bag, if its your die you get to move a unit. So much fun.
Flames of war has a similar problem to WH40K with 3 game periods, late, middle, early, and then books for theatres of operations and army composition’s, it's stacking up
My favorite thing I've seen of this game was a post on their subreddit, where a person was using what rubber ducks on what looked like jar lids for basses. You don't even need minis. You can just use ducks.
I've been playing GDF recently, it's pretty good with some rules interactions that can use clarification. The army balance was off in previous iterations of the rules, but this has been addressed in the 2.50 beta. You can get those rules in their free web app army builder, which is an awesome tool.
I love OPR. It's a great system and since I discovered it it is all play. Even my youngest Son loves it. It is easy to explain the rules to a 9 year old boy and a few games and he knows the rules of his army very well. With 40k...not so easy.
@@ophicusmm6514 yeah, it does become boring having to constantly refer to the rulebook to see if you got it right. However, if it is your opponent's turn you have a good 30 minutes to check to book before you can do something again 😅 (which sucks) , and that is another great aspect of OPR. It is way better structured and you do t have those boring moments.
Games Workshop has always been a Miniature Manufacturer - not a Game Manufacturer. Creating Minis to play with them. So I think it is absolute fine & dandy if people who are much more skilled Game Designers are creating a Game - with which you can use any mini you want.
GDF's alternating activations are the way a tactical game like 40k should be played. Kill Team's 1st Ed was similar to that and got it right. I was hoping 40k 9th would go the same way. But then Kill Team 2nd Ed came, not a bad game, but not really necessary. What was necessary was fixing the 40k format. But since GW will never do that OPR did.
Really comprehensive vid as always. One page rules & grim dark future is definitely something I'm interested in exploring down the line. I think the only issue people might run into with it, is finding opponents in their area. Though I guess the Internet helps out a lot with that kind of thing these days.
OPR are brilliant! The rules are simple fun and straight to the point. If you want more complexity just add more advanced rules into the game, that is one major point I love, can add any of as many rules as you want to craft a great mission/game. Nevermind the over 20 army lists for both sci fi and fantasy and how easy it is to make your own in game units. It is a true fan game, for fans, by fans.
Happy to see you back and healthy. Loved this video. Would also add that, for a noob like me, its sometimes difficult to figure out what mini to use based on a name and stats on OnePageRules. Not always sure if the unit is a mech or a well armed soldier or a vehicle when all I have to go on is "Destroyer" as a unit's name. But I'm having so much fun printing and painting, it is a very small negative note. Cant wait to play my first game. Lol
I know what you mean, and have asked OnePageAnon about adding something to explain how to set up an army for beginners to wargaming. Someone on the OPR Discord was against this, but they were an experienced wargamer, and could not understand that this could be totally overwhelming for some people coming in cold to wargaming. So yeah, a half page primer explaining what's what with army building for noobs would be an excellent idea.
@@DiscourseMinis Tought you might be interested as a fellow Ork fan. Lol Puppetwars has some amazing looking orks with jetpacks on myminifactory. Got a free sample through the OPR patreon. Worth a peek.
I somehow don't know. Isn't an integral part of the miniature game experience to be robbed, emotionally blackmailed and manipulated by a large corporation? Playing it just for fun and pleasure sounds like a strange and crazy new idea. But who can argue with "Carthago Delenda Est."? :-D
OPR is responsible for me getting back into the hobby. I like painting, but without a game to play them with, it's not that enticing. The simplicity of OPR is definitely a feature, not a bug.
"Batman... he beats you up if you're poor." 😆 It is nice to see you covering OnePage. Their approach to rules is pretty cool. "... and not like the Khmer Rouge." 😬 13:01 The ragtag selection of dice tickled me. 😍👍 "Did MI5 just stop taking the train?" 😆😆😆 Ludi Officina delenda est
Arbitor Ian! Yes! Also, I really like the way that you talk. Your voice tone, cadence, emphasis, sounds great! Your presentation keeps me interested and engaged in the discussion.
I love the art work in one page rules, very much back in the standard of Rogue Trader, Traveller RPG and some of the early copies of White Dwarf when I first started playing.
I am now 3d printing and painting my Orc army right now for my first game. One Page Rules is my first tabletop wargame. I always wanted to play Warhammer but never had the money to get into it.
Awesome. I'm planning to give their Age of Fantasy: Regiments rules this week. My first impression is that it's a great introductory system, though I miss the units running around in panic from the oldhammer rules 😁
Oh you are so right. 40K is such a hard intro game. You have to cash in so much money and buy so many different books and material to just understand the game and your own faction. Many people dont get that. I am a working man. I dont have time to invest 20 hours to just learn what Im supposed to do. And every time I do play against experienced players, they use their stratagems and weird aura combos to whipe the floor with me. The learning curve is veeery unforgiving. My first warhammer games took 4-5 hours a match, because we had to look so much into the rules. Grimdark Future is an awesome game! Its quick and easy to learn. I played some games with friends who never played tabletop games before and just after 2 turns they already knew what to roll and measure. I personally really like the fact that you can re-name the units in the army forge web tool, so you can actually use your Warhammer 40k names for the units so there is no confusion any more and it feels exactly like 40k.
also i want to add that the complexity of the game is being developed by the expansion and optional rules. in my first game i thought the same as what you said about loosing deepness from 40k, but there is more content for members and the calculators with formula for special abilities and related point cost calculation for everything in the game. 👍 thanks again for the vid!
yeah definitely, I might cover the patreon access and expanded content in future, but I wanted to focus on the free core rules for this video. I really want to try the campaign rules!
i can't buy a printer and am not yet a member. gotta buy a car soon and have a big pile of shame already. but in a bit of a while i plan on supporting 2 patreons and get into airbrushing too! so many plans :D such limited time/money 😅
@@cythonnaiilo7956 $5 usd gets you the fully expanded rules, some paper miniatures and terrain, and a points calculator that can allow you to either create new units/armies, or make a conversion of another game that you want to work with. All of that is in pdf format, and it's still yours after you stop the Patreon. In addition, if you have an account with Drive Thru RPG/Wargames Foundry, OPR gives free copies of the books and minis there during the Patreon subscription, and those are added to your library at DTRPG/WGF, which are yours whenever you need another copy. OPR games are mini agnostic, so since you have stuff that you haven't built/painted, that can be used. The OPR minis are nice, but there are multiple options for what to actually play with. One person on the Discord for OPR showed off pictures of the cabochons they had made to use in a portable set that they could take with them anywhere and set up. Ultimately, as long as you have printer, ink, and paper, you have the options to play the game.
Love mee One Page Rules 'Ate Games Workshop You're right that Grimdark Future is a very shallow game but, I'd argue that's one if it's biggest strengths because you can loot and implement your own ideas or, systems from other wargames, on top of the existing rules with relatively little fuss which I think in today's world of WYSIWYG and, rules as written vs rules as intended, is a feature that doesn't get enough credit (it's the same reason I enjoy D&D 5e, though I am looking into other systems) Also I'm relatively new to the hobby and have had a lot of bad experiences so my opinions are not universal, just giving my two cents
@@gabrielmarquez4029 obviously if anyone rolls up with 100 "everything proof shields" they will be asked calmly, yet firmly to leave, but ideally it's like "hey this is a thing in lore, can I stat it out for the tabletop??"
After Years passed to buy tons of books and miniatures, I’m thinking about OPR GF as a good and healty way to continue to play with my 4 armies. My books help me for all the background I need, but now I’m free to think about playing without worries about the new edition, metagame etc. Thank You Gaetano (OPR CEO)
Just two quick points here, Discourse: 1) As some of my fellow commenters have already said, there is a 5$ download, with a whole slew of interesting otional rules to give you some variety, and 2) The rules of chess fit on much less than one page. Would you call chess a game with the depth of a puddle? OPR just does what a GAME should do, and gives you miriads of intersting choices, with little to no rules to remember. All the complexity is emergent from the situations.
I've been very tempted to try OPR but to be honest I'm up to my eyeballs in crusade rules and things for Wh40k. I *like* the persistent storytelling potential of Crusade. Is there anything similar for OPR? Either earnable upgrades or whatnot?
Wargaming is already an expensive hobby that makes video games seem cost-effective by comparison. Adding in more rules and books to read makes 40K more of a chore than a hobby. No wonder other series have taken their own shot at making a more approachable wargame. By the by, nice to see you again, Discourse! I hope you're feeling better!
I remember when OPR was in it's infancy... Just the website and drive link... Ah, to see them grow! I think I might even have a few copies (hard copy prints) of the original rules somewhere... Reminded me of a similar, older, one page set of rules called FUBAR by one of the authors of "In Her Majesty's Name". Excellent concepts, and I'm happy to see the refined version catching on like it has over the last decade.
Oh, someone remembers FUBAR 😊 I thought it was very inventive for it's time. Nice little scene around it as well with lots of homebrewing. The game died far to early and sudden, but I feel that OPR is its (far more succesful) spiritual successor. Heck, most of the game mechanics FUBAR did are quite literally in the OPR games and it is good that they still live on.
With me, BattleTech was my first war game and I think it’s perfect for most starters. Simple rules, small armies, snappy combat, and options for both more simple (Alpha Strike) and more complex (BT Advanced) rule sets.
ALTERNATING ACTIVATIONS!!! and for the record, the whole "who goes 1st wins" rules is usually backwards for me. When I go first, no of my openness stuf is close enough to do very much damage to. But now that just have moved up, I'm close enough for the other player to SHRED my army. And I have usually noticed the same when you opponent goes first.
Can we pray for a Discourse / Arbitor Ian / Snipe & Wib collab one day? I haven't played tabletop miniature games in a LONG time but I'd love to see my fave WH40K-based content creators team up!
Some perspective from an old(ish) gamer. Nothing is as unaccessable to a new gamer as Starfleet Battles was. It was the third tabletop game I played, and I bought all three rulebooks (all printed in 12-10pt type, and each around 300 pages). The One Page Rules stuff is amazingly approachable in comparison, and quite a lot like Rogue Trader.
Glad to see you back in action buddy. Sorry that you got sick but you seem to be back and swinging for the fenses. Excellent video, I've been interested in playing OPRs and glad to have you give a review.
I think the best option would be to use the rules and army lists from OPR, and only buy the campaign books from GW. That way I can still play in the 40k setting,but not spend hundreds of dollars on multiple codices.
Good video! A quick question - - I was curious about what had happened to the giveaway announcement from a weeks ago. I realise that you've been sick recently, and other stuff has cropped up, so I hope things can get straightened out once you've recovered fully.
Oh hey Evan, thanks! Yes, starting to feel better now :) That giveaway ended and the winner was contacted! I believe the printer is on its way to them now :)
It is the 'Tough' stat. If it doesn't have it, it means it has one wound. An Alien Hive Assault Grunt unit is 10 models (can be doubled) with one wound each. A Tyrant Beast (Hive Tyrant) has Tough [12] which is 12 wounds/hit points
Personally I feel that the best thing for the world of Warhammer. Would be for a company to specifically fabricate their own variants (different sculpts) of all of the Warhammer 40k miniatures in design and name but very clearly for Warhammer 40k. But, clearly identify and support their own tournaments with more affordable units. GW has no competition because of their tournaments. But realistically you don't have to go to 'GW's' tournaments to enjoy the game. They can't stop you from using someone else's miniature in someone else's tournament even if they are using the GW WH40k rules or this GrimDark either. This is the best way to actually give GW a run for their money. Imagine if Cursed City was available with different sculpts but under a different name? Just saying, it is just a bit of text in a book otherwise with great artwork for the GW branded book. Make it available online just like GrimDark and they can't do anything about someone selling a box for 60 dollars with units, dice, and any other incidentals to play what should of been Cursed City. Sounds like a better world to me where GW can't keep raising prices indefinitely.
One kool aspect is if you do become a patreon subscriber you get access to their point calculator which allows you to create new units/armies that are more or less balanced as its what the creators use to decide point costs
Search for Wyloch's Armory. He has great Battle Reports and 'How To' videos for Grimdark Future. I've enjoyed 35 games so far with friends. No plans to go back to 40K.
Looks like a great system i hope to check it out I'm curious have you tried any of the fantasy versions of one page rules if so how does it compare to warhammer fantasy or kings of war? Great video btw!
"Just like real like most of your problems can be solved by judicious use of murder" Yes, I often find myself trapped in a massive que thinking this situation could be so quickly resolved if I had more hand grenades.
The point about the strategy coming from how units are used on the table, rather than from interactions of complicated rules, is so important to stress when talking about One Page Rules. The game is relatively simple, mechanically, but it's not a brain dead game for babies. It has tactical nuance and depth, that only becomes apparent during play. Much of the appeal of 40K's complex rules and interlocking systems is, I think, not practical tactics. Rather, it's a game that front-loads its tactical decisions at the list-building stage, and rewards rote memorization of rules interactions. You will, a great percentage of the time, have won or lost before you even set up your board. And the only unpredictability comes from the roll of the dice (which half of the army-building options exist explicitly to mitigate anyway) and from whether you can remember more arcane bullshit than your opponent. (Honestly, 40K is low-key ablest and classist. The former because you need to have the best memorization powers, to just know how to game the system. The latter because you need to have the time, money, and energy to keep up with a constantly shifting, complicated, and costly meta.) Some people may enjoy the complexity of 40K. While I can hardly discount their fun, I must ask whether they actually enjoy playing the game itself, or if they simply enjoy solving the puzzle that is 40K before play has even started. If list-building and theory-crafting is the primary draw of this system, I question whether that actually makes 40K fun to play. Or how much tactical expertise succeeding at it really requires, in a player-versus-player sense. OPR is a simpler system, yes. But so is Chess. You can print the rules for Chess on a flashcard, and a new player can learn the mechanics in fifteen minutes. But no one would ever accuse Chess of being a baby game for babies. No one would accuse Chess grandmasters of not employing high tactical acumen or skill, both before and during play.
my wargaming group is talking about switching over to grimdark future it just gotten so convoluted to build a 40k army heck Age of Sigmar, Kill team and War cry are slowly over taking 40k as what people play
Well done on surviving and getting a stronger immune system! Also OPR's are my go to for games these days. So much easier and faster to use, and super easy to teach others!
I love OPR, however I've only ever played Firefight. Have you tried that? Talk about quick games! It's some fast, furious, fun and you can get in many games in a single evening.
7:40 "This is not the game for you if all you care about is setting and lore." The lore is just couple of paragraphs? All the better. That means less restrictions in creating you own fan-lor, or fan-fiction. In this, I find Warhammer very limiting. Even though I'm not a fan of fact that three factions (Robot Legions, Machine Cult Defilers and Alien Hives + perhaps Soul Snatchers Cults, although in their case it is questionable, as they might be independant from Alien Hives as such, and care more for reign then consumption) are just mindless life-eradicators, sparse lore means more freedom and ways to make your truly unique and own factions
Armies are updated fairly regularly, the free rules are 2 pages the real rules are 32 pages which also get updated fairly regularly. One of the things you missed are missing cards etc also a points calculator so you can make up your own armies
This is like you most possitive video. I spent 4 hours today watching videos on OPR while glueing my Fellgore Ravengers. I'm one step away from reading the rules lol I love the idea. I live in a small cabin in Wicklow so the Firefight game suits me. I can randomly collect models and play them as any team.
Support me on Patreon: www.patreon.com/discourseminiatures
Link to MERCH: discourse-miniatures.creator-spring.com/
Link to my Discord: discord.gg/gkfxppuXrN
Noble Knight Games (US-based Affiliate link):www.nobleknight.com/affiliate/aw.asp?B=3&A=1160&Task=Click
Element Games (UK-based Affiliate link): elementgames.co.uk/?d=10711
Alternatively, you can give a one-time tip via Ko-fi: ko-fi.com/discourse
Hey Discourse, Great video. I run a Befores & Afters school care program in Australia. The value of wargaming is great as its getting my year 1's and year 2's INTRESTED in READING, MATHS, and CHAOS THEORY!
However parents not liking guns means we are limited to some systems. Another is I dont want them to support GW or maybe another company thats Anti consumer. A part for creating our own gaming system (I am thinking about it) What can we do?
Jerry Adams has such a nice beard in that picture. I wish my beard as as well shaped.
Please give Wyloch’s Armory a shout out as they have games based on the Grimdark Future ruleset too :)
@@radeadcool Age of Fantasy might be a good one to try out? It's the Fantasy equivalent of Grimdark Future :) You could also try out Warsurge which lets you build your own custom factions! So you could use anything you want and totally curate the contents!
+1 for so Mantic stuff please
OPR is great, however one thing I'll add is that while yes, the whole single page, simple thing is super cool and that's what makes it attractive, the additional rules in the $5 Patreon expanded rules can make the game satisfyingly dense if that's your thing. The nice part though is while they're adding complexity, it's all well done and builds on the rules instead of just jammed in because models got to get sold and a codex gotta sell.
Yeeeeaah, I really like the additional rules, they are very modular
GDF is the game 8th 40k wanted to be (but failed), and the extended rules are what 9th wants to be (but fails)
so it is the perfect game for all those who like the current version of 40k but not what GW is doing
Yeah, the extended rules like fatigue and suppression really make a difference. Plus GDF makes it easy to play some pretty big games easily.
@Hans Otterson GW is kind of overdoing the lore anyway. 40k was good when the lore sat quietly in the background and let you tell your own stories. Now it changes every five minutes and seems to demand its own place at the table. It's loud, it's obnoxious, it's poorly written, and it's stifling the game.
@Hans Otterson I agree they don't _need_ lore, but it's a fun bonus to have.
Hell yes, OPR is far better on table, no dead time, real strategy even with low power units (gretchins/space goblins can steal the victory).
My wife after the first 40k game : « Never again ! »
After first Grimdark Future game : « Give me more ! » 😅
Also, for those that are concerned about the lack of OPR Lore, let me in on you a little secret...
I use my 40k war dollies for OPR and use all the GW terms and lore while doing it and I. Don't. Even. Care. Take that Mr. Workshop!
Yeah, the game works very easily as a heavily streamlined version of 40k.
How dare you...you...you...MONSTER.
Just kidding of course
@@DiscourseMinis Isn't that how it started? Simplified fan rules?
Exactly what I plan to do 👍
But ... that's Heresy! *Insert appalled Battle Sister meme*
I support any rule set that lets you use your minis and avoid GW cash milking. Honestly they are out of control these days and only cutting back and starving GW out can anyone hope they change their path. I’ll give these rules a look.
Very quick and easy to get started!
I use bolt action minis with cadian arms as a stand in for Guard.
Grim Dark Futures reminds me of 40k 3rd edition (before all the codexs). It's well balanced and accessible. As a parent in his 30s I just don't have the cognitive space in my head to remember a myriad of rules of special powers... Screw command points or strategems... Just give me some men and some dice...
Yup! That's exactly the spot it hit for me too!
I played 3rd -5th edition. 4th and 5th were refinements of 3rd IMO. I generally agree with you, but the codexes were not always well-balanced with each other. Among the three, I prefer 5th edition.
Trying to juggle all the complexities of daily life, _on top of_ keeping up with 40K's complicated and ever-shifting rules and meta, sounds like a cognitive nightmare. Remaining on pace with 40K's meta is effectively a second job. Not everyone has that kind of time, let alone mental energy.
(As an aside, I suspect many people get so loyal to and defensive about 40K because they spend a majority of their free time thinking about it. Whether it's the game itself or the fiction that surrounds it, 40K leaves no room for anything else. It's a black hole, swallowing your time and money. _Of course_ people will defend it. It would be cognitive dissonance to admit they wasted their time.)
The One Page Rules system is ideal for anyone who cannot or doesn't want to commit to this second job. You don't need to read a brick of a manual every few years, nor read scores of pages of dense rules text for your army (and, let's face it, _everyone else's_ army, because you need to know what you're up against). You don't need to keep up with massive meta changes every month. You can just show up and play.
You know, like a game. Grimdark Future returns 40K to being a game you play _for fun._ It's not more work.
@@Bluecho4 just let me add that you can choose the army you like and have fun with it!! In 40k if you choose a last year codex and you play against a last month codex you get tabled turn two because of the codex creep!! No meta chasing here💋
Wonderful to see you back! Hope you're feeling better
Thanks!! Yes, I recorded this before I got sick, but starting to feel a bit better now :)
@@DiscourseMinis the backloggggg
Most important sentence - strategy comes using your units (attck, positions, etc), not from intereactions of rules.
It just highlighted how bad it is with GW -> it is more about executing combos, like munchkin breaking ttrpg he plaied for X years
Yeah, that aspect was when 40K completely lost me, stratagems were kinda fun in apocalypse but my god did they make 40K miserable
@@crimson_oracle just going through multiple rules... it was terrible, i had to make cheat-sheets for even small armies to remebmer what to do
WH has a bit of rules and things to remember, but if ur not using strategy, ur gonna lose to someone who does. Intelligence is second only to luck
@@doctordoubledakka3939 with WH it is somewhat like it is with "real" war - battles are won before they start. WIth list-building, bringing and executing some combo from new codex.
You can win with old codex, but it is working around your weak mechanic, and still looking for some combo to be effective.
"Strategy" is important, but it is second to combos and rules interctions
@@WladcaPodziemia Just because both sides believe they have won, before they have begun, does not mean they will, and in fact, both sides cannot win. Working within ur limitations(rules) and synergizing your strengths(combos) are part of tactics.
That doesn't mean the game is perfectly balanced, it doesn't mean its easy to memorize every datasheet and stratagem from every book.
But if you use solid tactics, the only thing you have to fear is the dice. If all you roll are 1's; tactics, stratagems, flat damage 12 cannons don't matter.
Luck - Skill - overpower-minis; in that order
So here's my take on OPR's GF set of rules. The free version is the condensed, fits on a double page, beer and pretzles type of game. But if you join the Patreon for one month which is like five quid, you get the full set which is like... 30 pages? And you get access to the points builder which cannot be overstated in its usefulness since it allows you to build your own troops.
My take on OPR's rule model is that it is _very_ similar to what's happening in the indie roleplaying game scene since a few years back. In that corner of the nerdy hobby space, a lot of effort has gone into making games that are easily accessible and above all "hackable". As in, everyone and their cousin are writing games, short games usually and everyone is borrowing ideas and rule mechanisms from each other. Making a variant of someone else's rules, to be used with those rules or as a separate system is called to do a hack.
And that's how I see OPR's Grimdark Future. The rules themselves are a streamlined melange of different modern trends in miniature rules writing and they work very smoothly for their intended use. The smoothness and lack of involved mechanics is the whole point. The main advantage of this might be seen as being able to play the quick but tactical lite blaster bashes you describe, but in reality the thing is that you can so very easily modify and hack this system without the core rules breaking when you do so. Seriously, I'm currently using this set as the foundation for variants to play CthulhuTech mechas vs. monsters battles, Horus Heresy battles and a WW2 battalion level game. It really is that solid at its core to be able to take the additional rule add-ons to make very different feeling games.
OPR's rules are the equivalent of building and kitbashing your own minis, but for rules. They're a hobbyist's rules, rather than a consumer's. THAT is how it differs from Warhammer rather than in perceived depth or width. GW has fed a generation of gamers to expect to be told how to play. OPR lets you play like you want to. This ofc means more work on the hobbyist's part, since you have to decide or find out what you actually want and why. But the thing is, the basic OPR set up is easy enough to rope people who haven't learned how to think for themselves when it comes to rules yet and still let them have a fun time blaster bashing their space toys off a table. Hopefully they'll come for the easily digestible entree and stay for the communal cook out.
OPR is open source, mod friendly, community based gaming. GW is corporate force fed consumerism. I know where I want to play with my little space and fantasy toys.
PS. Get well soon!
Oh yeah I totally agree with you. I wanted to review what was presented to the player for free (I didn't really look at the paid for options for this video - maybe I will in future). But the game itself is super duper light, very easy to hang whatever you want on top!
"They're a hobbyist's rules, rather than a consumer's" - such a good way of putting it.
One advantage of the simplicity of the OPR rules is that they're so much easier to tweak if you don't like bits of them. I don't mind activating units alternatively, but activation like Bolt Action's dice-based method is fun, gives a similar feel and balances things better if the two sides don't have similar numbers of units.
Good point!
It would give leadership rating some actual value, alternating LD check to activate.
The 5$ rulebook has rules for that! :)
One of the things that opened up OPR for me was the idea that you can combine.... any forces. So my Eternal Wardens can be joined by a large detachment of human soldiery from their home city, with cannons, pikes and golden giants smashing to earth from the heavens. Perfect, no need to remember rules, keywords, detachments, whatever. It's simple! I want a Lust Daemon army? Havoc warriors + some rift daemons and no one can say 'well you forgot that these don't fit into that force blah blah blah' as long as I stay within my points. Endless flavour to my armies, the only restriction is in tournaments 60% of your points must be from one force. It's amazing.
Totally agree, this is absolutely my favorite thing. You can have a true "chaos" army.
That's one of the big things for me that 40k has massive mechanical issues with. Every army list is totally inflexable, so either you ignore the rules to play a more narrative grouping, or you suffer mechanically. Meanwhile under OPR's more open rule set, if a ragtag band of Guard, Tau, Eldar and Marines need to work together against the Chaos horde besieging the prison they're holed up in? As long as the points are about the same, it all works. Chaos has demons, marines and cultists without penalty. The defenders having a single Leman Russ at the gates, a handful of marines, a Banshee Exarch and Tau Pathfinders? No penalty.
And yes, that _is_ basically a 40k equivalent of *the Battle of Castle Itter* as a scenario, kudos for noticing.
Great video! My 12yo son and I bought into 40k when the pandemic hit and we needed something that we could do. Bought all the minis, the books, etc., and then when it came time to play found 40k to be slow, cumbersome, and waaay to difficult for two new wargamers to play. My son especially found that waiting 45 minutes for his turn to be too length and well, boring. But we were totally hooked on the lore. Then I found OPR Grimdark and we've been playing ever since. The rules are fun, and with the complete rulebook, gave us more than enough variation to keep us interested.
I found a sector map generator for Traveler RPG, assigned homeworlds to all our minis and we've embarked on a 1 year campaign to see who conquers all! And we've kept the lore from 40k that we both really love. We can play a game easily on a Saturday afternoon, probably two before we both want to veg out and talk smack to each other about the game we just played and the next to come.
We love the 40k lore, the minis, but not the bloated slow-motion gameplay. So long 40k and thanks for all the fish!
Playing OPR for about a year now. Its so refreshing to play a few games, chat and drink some beer. Without permanently interrupted by searching the right rule reference or unit exception bla.
Last update balance messed up 5 out 6 of my Crusade forces. I was pissed off to no end. That, plus the ever-growing bloat of rule layers - army wide, faction wide, subfaction wide, auras, keywords combos, stratagems, etc. - pushed me to OPR once and for all, even though I was a Patreon subscriber since a few months. I combined a few house rules for command, shamelessly stolen from the old Dust Warfare rulebook by Andy Chambers, and I'm mighty fine.
It's great to have rules for my tastes (suppression) and build small, thematic armies that are a pleasure to put together, paint, and play on the table. Won't be coming back anytime soon.
I know the feeling, i played (tried to play) Imperial Gaurd and was my first internation with the WH40K community. The way they did matchs was everyone would put their name an army into a hat, all random BUT for some strange reason i was 9 out of 10 the last one to be called, then to learn my opponent either had to drop out or him and the last group wanted a 3 way game leaving me out of it. It continued when i was asked "why i decided to play the fascists" to a 13yr boy that just wanted to join in with army he liked the look of.
Glad i left after catching the piece of sh!t that was stealing my miniatures. Lost 1 lemen Russ, 15 guardsman (i had 40) And my entire HQ witch was smashed.
@@blacktemplarbrotherlucius1935 fuck people who decide to steal miniatures
All the best, Discourse. Take it slow even when you're getting better. Half of my colleagues have it at the moment, and this shit has a nasty habbit of coming back with a vengeance right when you start feeling better.
As to OPR, I am a full convert myself. The best thing I can say about it is that the armies feel like their GW counterparts, without the rules clutter.
Why the company must drown everyone in such endless convoluted rules is so beyond my understanding.
Alternating activations is THE way forward - its more interactive, faster gameplay, better paced, less of a headache....
It's awesome to see a big name cover OPR!! Yes yes yes.
The thing I LOVE the most is the alternating activations. Really keeps you in the game, and just like you said it helps stop 1-2turn wipes
Grim Dark is a hark back to Warhammer 40k 1st edition in that it's designed to be FUN. And it does it pretty well as far as I can see. Love it.
Thanks to your video I gave it a go and OMG this is just so good! One "rulebook", few "army-pages" and like a dozen battle report videos later I can easily say I'm in. Thanks for shilling for Grimdark Future. This is exactly what I needed in my life (and for my armies).
I would also mention that the Patreon also includes a points calculator that you can use to create custom units or adjust existing ones. Combined with 3D printing, it's possible to create an entirely unique army that fits within the rules. The calculator is not set to the latest beta ruleset at the moment, but it should be in time.
Yeah, that would be super useful, and definitely shake my problems with the readability of the sheets on first blush
Can’t wait for titanic units. Tomorrow doing demons v orcs, with new points. Intend to do a play testing report on the discord
Grimdark Firefight and Age of Fantasy skirmish are also good alternatives to GWs offerings and are free. Though to be fair I’d have happily paid for both rulesets as they are that good.
My favorite thing about OPR is that no matter what you're playing, the rules are basically universal across Grimdark Future and Age of Fantasy. Technically, (probably with minor adjustments) my Fantasy Empire army could go up against some Chaos Space Marines!
I'm converting skavens for GDF
Do it. I want to see some analysis on how well you can take armies from both and match them up.
Grimdark future has a lore, it's called warhammer 40k, you can totally read the story of your army and stuff..and play with grimdark future rules, I do that.
Alternating activation is my favorite turn progression. I agree, there is nothing like waiting for a horde army to move 100-200 models, or watching your whole army melt away in one turn of shooting.
I really want to get into One Page Rules. Plus Grim Dark Future is one system, there is a skirmish game, as well as Fantasy.
Nice! I had heard of One Page rules. The alternating activation model makes me very open to trying the game. I have old Tyranid and Tau models I refuse to sell gathering dust I can use.
Wonderful Game system. You can pay a modest one-time fee for the expanded rules in lieu of the subscription. I have been gaming since the early eighties, and I have seen a lot of change in the various gaming business models. Grim Dark from OPR offers the player some unique aspects compared to the "established" gaming eco-systems. Chief among them are flexibility in miniatures on the table, and flexibility to mod and/or adjust the rules as the PLAYERS see fit. This leads to a much better experience, IMHO, than many of the other (overly complex and restrictive) rule systems out there. I highly recommend you give it a try.
It's worth mentioning that this game also has a SOLO option or "Same Side" where you could play with a buddy against an enemy controlled via a behavior chart of simple If/then arguments). Perfect for teaming up with newbies or kids against a mutual foe controlled by the game. I've seen a game bat rep video done with both sides run as "Artificial Intelligence" and it was a real nail biter. For those asking about the extras for the paid rules, the added content is not required to enjoy the game but really does give you a lot of options to play the way you want. Including multi basing smaller scale models. Hard agree on the wonders of OPR and some of the new forces in development (Jackals for example) are really interesting.
Oh, and like the core rules and army lists, the solo rules are FREE.
It is worth mentioning that being an OPR Patreon gets you access to the Point Calculator, allowing you to design or modify units.
Which can be combined with other Patreons for other miniature creators.
Print Minis, for a not-at-all-random example, creates minis for scenarios - with models from two factions and a monster or three thrown in.
I get more use from Print Minis now, simply because now I have a rules system to hang the scenarios on. (More accurately, I statted Outbreak in an Evil Lab! for Grimdark Future: Firefight - and it was a blast. Not to mention, the 1960s Sci Fi TV feel of Outbreak in an Evil Lab! - I swear, it felt like something from Gerry Anderson.)
It is truly the golden age of miniatures. When I was a kid (back in the 80s) miniatures were mostly fantasy-themed and not very detailed. I had to travel 30 miles to a magazine and cigar/pipe tobacco store that also sold miniatures. The smell of pipe tobacco still takes me back... The store also sold swords hidden inside of walking canes. Man I really wanted one of those. Nothing suspicious about a 12 year-old kid with a walking cane right?
Great Job Discord. Make a follow up vid on Onepagerules $5 expansion book. It is 32 pages of optional rules that will make the game a complicated as you like. Totally worth the money and you get free updates to the book. So the Onepagerules name is misleading. They have universal strategems, extra actions, random events, battlefield condition, fog of war, suppression, and more. I really like one of the turn sequence options. just like Bolt action. Each player puts one dice for each unit in a bag. Then you draw a die out of a bag, if its your die you get to move a unit. So much fun.
Really glad you've given this a try. Between this and BattleTech Alpha Strike, I feel like I have my wargaming needs covered.
Check out the Battletech Destiny rules from Death From Above Wargaming. AS was a little too abstracted for me, but BTD is great fun.
Flames of war has a similar problem to WH40K with 3 game periods, late, middle, early, and then books for theatres of operations and army composition’s, it's stacking up
Oh man I played when the first edition book with the army list in the book... I left after the LW British book came out. It was fun
My favorite thing I've seen of this game was a post on their subreddit, where a person was using what rubber ducks on what looked like jar lids for basses.
You don't even need minis. You can just use ducks.
I've been playing GDF recently, it's pretty good with some rules interactions that can use clarification.
The army balance was off in previous iterations of the rules, but this has been addressed in the 2.50 beta. You can get those rules in their free web app army builder, which is an awesome tool.
I love OPR. It's a great system and since I discovered it it is all play. Even my youngest Son loves it. It is easy to explain the rules to a 9 year old boy and a few games and he knows the rules of his army very well. With 40k...not so easy.
I think 40k is so complicated that is boring... 😅
@@ophicusmm6514 yeah, it does become boring having to constantly refer to the rulebook to see if you got it right. However, if it is your opponent's turn you have a good 30 minutes to check to book before you can do something again 😅 (which sucks) , and that is another great aspect of OPR. It is way better structured and you do t have those boring moments.
@@alrethianscraftsbattles absolutely !! 😁
Games Workshop has always been a Miniature Manufacturer - not a Game Manufacturer. Creating Minis to play with them. So I think it is absolute fine & dandy if people who are much more skilled Game Designers are creating a Game - with which you can use any mini you want.
GDF's alternating activations are the way a tactical game like 40k should be played. Kill Team's 1st Ed was similar to that and got it right. I was hoping 40k 9th would go the same way. But then Kill Team 2nd Ed came, not a bad game, but not really necessary. What was necessary was fixing the 40k format. But since GW will never do that OPR did.
Really comprehensive vid as always. One page rules & grim dark future is definitely something I'm interested in exploring down the line. I think the only issue people might run into with it, is finding opponents in their area. Though I guess the Internet helps out a lot with that kind of thing these days.
OPR are brilliant! The rules are simple fun and straight to the point. If you want more complexity just add more advanced rules into the game, that is one major point I love, can add any of as many rules as you want to craft a great mission/game. Nevermind the over 20 army lists for both sci fi and fantasy and how easy it is to make your own in game units. It is a true fan game, for fans, by fans.
Happy to see you back and healthy. Loved this video. Would also add that, for a noob like me, its sometimes difficult to figure out what mini to use based on a name and stats on OnePageRules. Not always sure if the unit is a mech or a well armed soldier or a vehicle when all I have to go on is "Destroyer" as a unit's name. But I'm having so much fun printing and painting, it is a very small negative note.
Cant wait to play my first game. Lol
No I run into that problem too sometimes, definitely a bit of effort sometimes to infer the right miniature!
I know what you mean, and have asked OnePageAnon about adding something to explain how to set up an army for beginners to wargaming. Someone on the OPR Discord was against this, but they were an experienced wargamer, and could not understand that this could be totally overwhelming for some people coming in cold to wargaming.
So yeah, a half page primer explaining what's what with army building for noobs would be an excellent idea.
@@DiscourseMinis Tought you might be interested as a fellow Ork fan. Lol Puppetwars has some amazing looking orks with jetpacks on myminifactory. Got a free sample through the OPR patreon. Worth a peek.
The free rules are fine for trying the game out, but you need the full rulebook in my opinion if you're going to keep playing.
My wifes grandkid wants to get into AoS, I might try him on One Page Fantasy instead!
I somehow don't know. Isn't an integral part of the miniature game experience to be robbed, emotionally blackmailed and manipulated by a large corporation? Playing it just for fun and pleasure sounds like a strange and crazy new idea. But who can argue with "Carthago Delenda Est."? :-D
OPR is responsible for me getting back into the hobby. I like painting, but without a game to play them with, it's not that enticing. The simplicity of OPR is definitely a feature, not a bug.
Yeah, I totally agree. I need to be painting miniatures FOR a game! :)
"Batman... he beats you up if you're poor." 😆
It is nice to see you covering OnePage. Their approach to rules is pretty cool.
"... and not like the Khmer Rouge." 😬
13:01 The ragtag selection of dice tickled me. 😍👍
"Did MI5 just stop taking the train?" 😆😆😆
Ludi Officina delenda est
Arbitor Ian! Yes! Also, I really like the way that you talk. Your voice tone, cadence, emphasis, sounds great! Your presentation keeps me interested and engaged in the discussion.
Wow, thank you!
I love the art work in one page rules, very much back in the standard of Rogue Trader, Traveller RPG and some of the early copies of White Dwarf when I first started playing.
I am now 3d printing and painting my Orc army right now for my first game. One Page Rules is my first tabletop wargame. I always wanted to play Warhammer but never had the money to get into it.
Awesome. I'm planning to give their Age of Fantasy: Regiments rules this week. My first impression is that it's a great introductory system, though I miss the units running around in panic from the oldhammer rules 😁
Standees do not get enough love, that OPR is touting them as a serious alternative makes me very happy indeed!
Welcome to the OPR community Discourse!
I'm about to start teaching OPR to my 9 year old son. I'm almost done painting his "Space Hunters" (Deathwatch 😉).
Oh you are so right.
40K is such a hard intro game. You have to cash in so much money and buy so many different books and material to just understand the game and your own faction. Many people dont get that. I am a working man. I dont have time to invest 20 hours to just learn what Im supposed to do. And every time I do play against experienced players, they use their stratagems and weird aura combos to whipe the floor with me. The learning curve is veeery unforgiving. My first warhammer games took 4-5 hours a match, because we had to look so much into the rules.
Grimdark Future is an awesome game! Its quick and easy to learn. I played some games with friends who never played tabletop games before and just after 2 turns they already knew what to roll and measure. I personally really like the fact that you can re-name the units in the army forge web tool, so you can actually use your Warhammer 40k names for the units so there is no confusion any more and it feels exactly like 40k.
Just downloaded all the pdf's, is there a mod for tts?
I'm not actually sure sorry!
also i want to add that the complexity of the game is being developed by the expansion and optional rules. in my first game i thought the same as what you said about loosing deepness from 40k, but there is more content for members and the calculators with formula for special abilities and related point cost calculation for everything in the game. 👍 thanks again for the vid!
yeah definitely, I might cover the patreon access and expanded content in future, but I wanted to focus on the free core rules for this video. I really want to try the campaign rules!
i can't buy a printer and am not yet a member. gotta buy a car soon and have a big pile of shame already. but in a bit of a while i plan on supporting 2 patreons and get into airbrushing too! so many plans :D such limited time/money 😅
@@cythonnaiilo7956 $5 usd gets you the fully expanded rules, some paper miniatures and terrain, and a points calculator that can allow you to either create new units/armies, or make a conversion of another game that you want to work with. All of that is in pdf format, and it's still yours after you stop the Patreon. In addition, if you have an account with Drive Thru RPG/Wargames Foundry, OPR gives free copies of the books and minis there during the Patreon subscription, and those are added to your library at DTRPG/WGF, which are yours whenever you need another copy.
OPR games are mini agnostic, so since you have stuff that you haven't built/painted, that can be used. The OPR minis are nice, but there are multiple options for what to actually play with. One person on the Discord for OPR showed off pictures of the cabochons they had made to use in a portable set that they could take with them anywhere and set up.
Ultimately, as long as you have printer, ink, and paper, you have the options to play the game.
Love mee One Page Rules
'Ate Games Workshop
You're right that Grimdark Future is a very shallow game but, I'd argue that's one if it's biggest strengths because you can loot and implement your own ideas or, systems from other wargames, on top of the existing rules with relatively little fuss which I think in today's world of WYSIWYG and, rules as written vs rules as intended, is a feature that doesn't get enough credit (it's the same reason I enjoy D&D 5e, though I am looking into other systems)
Also I'm relatively new to the hobby and have had a lot of bad experiences so my opinions are not universal, just giving my two cents
I like that too. It’s a very old school mentality towards wargaming, back when homebrewing was a bigger part of the hobby.
@@gabrielmarquez4029 obviously if anyone rolls up with 100 "everything proof shields" they will be asked calmly, yet firmly to leave, but ideally it's like "hey this is a thing in lore, can I stat it out for the tabletop??"
@@Scrombo2 exactly, or coming up with new systems to compliment certain scenarios like fighting in zero gravity
@@gabrielmarquez4029 yooooooooooo that actually gets the old wheels turning and I kinda wanna think if some stuff for that now
I'm from Brazil and 40k is way too expensive for the average Brazilian. This game is perfect for us! I only hope greedy GW doesn't sue them.
After Years passed to buy tons of books and miniatures, I’m thinking about OPR GF as a good and healty way to continue to play with my 4 armies. My books help me for all the background I need, but now I’m free to think about playing without worries about the new edition, metagame etc. Thank You Gaetano (OPR CEO)
Just two quick points here, Discourse:
1) As some of my fellow commenters have already said, there is a 5$ download, with a whole slew of interesting otional rules to give you some variety, and
2) The rules of chess fit on much less than one page. Would you call chess a game with the depth of a puddle?
OPR just does what a GAME should do, and gives you miriads of intersting choices, with little to no rules to remember. All the complexity is emergent from the situations.
Do one page rules seem similar to kill team abit on a bigger scale??
Not the newest version of Kill Team (which has a lot of bespoke minis). It feels more like a very slimmed down Warhammer 40k.
You're doing the Emperor's work, Discourse. Throne bless you.
I've been very tempted to try OPR but to be honest I'm up to my eyeballs in crusade rules and things for Wh40k. I *like* the persistent storytelling potential of Crusade. Is there anything similar for OPR? Either earnable upgrades or whatnot?
There is a campaign system! I haven't had a chance to play it, but it adds persistence, permadeath and XP to your forces :)
I was at the same point, but after playing Grimdark Future I feel it is what 40k should be 🥰
Wargaming is already an expensive hobby that makes video games seem cost-effective by comparison. Adding in more rules and books to read makes 40K more of a chore than a hobby. No wonder other series have taken their own shot at making a more approachable wargame.
By the by, nice to see you again, Discourse! I hope you're feeling better!
OPR works great as a framework if your making your own tabletop game. It helped me fast track my rules for my AoS alt game.
I miss the days of 4th and 5th when things seemed to be a lot better. Of course I play BA so 5th had to be fun for me.
I remember when OPR was in it's infancy... Just the website and drive link... Ah, to see them grow! I think I might even have a few copies (hard copy prints) of the original rules somewhere... Reminded me of a similar, older, one page set of rules called FUBAR by one of the authors of "In Her Majesty's Name". Excellent concepts, and I'm happy to see the refined version catching on like it has over the last decade.
Oh, someone remembers FUBAR 😊 I thought it was very inventive for it's time. Nice little scene around it as well with lots of homebrewing. The game died far to early and sudden, but I feel that OPR is its (far more succesful) spiritual successor. Heck, most of the game mechanics FUBAR did are quite literally in the OPR games and it is good that they still live on.
Honestly, the fact that we can use any 3D models for an army is incredible: there are some INSANE models available to use
Discourse: it's not a death match
Me: it is for me!
With me, BattleTech was my first war game and I think it’s perfect for most starters.
Simple rules, small armies, snappy combat, and options for both more simple (Alpha Strike) and more complex (BT Advanced) rule sets.
ALTERNATING ACTIVATIONS!!! and for the record, the whole "who goes 1st wins" rules is usually backwards for me. When I go first, no of my openness stuf is close enough to do very much damage to. But now that just have moved up, I'm close enough for the other player to SHRED my army. And I have usually noticed the same when you opponent goes first.
Can we pray for a Discourse / Arbitor Ian / Snipe & Wib collab one day? I haven't played tabletop miniature games in a LONG time but I'd love to see my fave WH40K-based content creators team up!
That would be cool!
Some perspective from an old(ish) gamer. Nothing is as unaccessable to a new gamer as Starfleet Battles was. It was the third tabletop game I played, and I bought all three rulebooks (all printed in 12-10pt type, and each around 300 pages). The One Page Rules stuff is amazingly approachable in comparison, and quite a lot like Rogue Trader.
That actually sounds incredible, I'd love to see that
That's so weird I actually just saw that south park episode!!! That was south park Member?
I member !!!!!
Glad to see you back in action buddy. Sorry that you got sick but you seem to be back and swinging for the fenses. Excellent video, I've been interested in playing OPRs and glad to have you give a review.
I think the best option would be to use the rules and army lists from OPR, and only buy the campaign books from GW. That way I can still play in the 40k setting,but not spend hundreds of dollars on multiple codices.
Good video! A quick question - - I was curious about what had happened to the giveaway announcement from a weeks ago. I realise that you've been sick recently, and other stuff has cropped up, so I hope things can get straightened out once you've recovered fully.
Oh hey Evan, thanks! Yes, starting to feel better now :) That giveaway ended and the winner was contacted! I believe the printer is on its way to them now :)
Good to hear! I wasn't sure what was going on, because I didn't see an announcement about it.
I want to try one Paige rules I’m just trying to figure out how the wounds work cause some of the units don’t say how many wounds they have
It is the 'Tough' stat. If it doesn't have it, it means it has one wound. An Alien Hive Assault Grunt unit is 10 models (can be doubled) with one wound each. A Tyrant Beast (Hive Tyrant) has Tough [12] which is 12 wounds/hit points
@@ogrimdoombringer thanks that helps a lot
Absolutely savage. The bit about Chaos Space Marines only having one wound made me roll around on the floor.
Liked for the content. Especially the Gerry Adams joke 🤣
Glad you enjoyed!!
Personally I feel that the best thing for the world of Warhammer. Would be for a company to specifically fabricate their own variants (different sculpts) of all of the Warhammer 40k miniatures in design and name but very clearly for Warhammer 40k. But, clearly identify and support their own tournaments with more affordable units. GW has no competition because of their tournaments. But realistically you don't have to go to 'GW's' tournaments to enjoy the game. They can't stop you from using someone else's miniature in someone else's tournament even if they are using the GW WH40k rules or this GrimDark either. This is the best way to actually give GW a run for their money. Imagine if Cursed City was available with different sculpts but under a different name? Just saying, it is just a bit of text in a book otherwise with great artwork for the GW branded book. Make it available online just like GrimDark and they can't do anything about someone selling a box for 60 dollars with units, dice, and any other incidentals to play what should of been Cursed City. Sounds like a better world to me where GW can't keep raising prices indefinitely.
We use a mix of AoS' way of handling Command points, while using the abilities from 40k for each army.
It works really really well for us anyway.
Hi, I am a 40K fan of Japan.
Japan and Australia have always been 40% more expensive. And will continue to be.
One kool aspect is if you do become a patreon subscriber you get access to their point calculator which allows you to create new units/armies that are more or less balanced as its what the creators use to decide point costs
This has me very interested, and pondering bringing my armies out of storage.
Search for Wyloch's Armory. He has great Battle Reports and 'How To' videos for Grimdark Future. I've enjoyed 35 games so far with friends. No plans to go back to 40K.
You're speaking more truth in one single video than other content creators in one year of work. Good Job Discourse! Thank you for 25 minutes sunshine.
Looks like a great system i hope to check it out I'm curious have you tried any of the fantasy versions of one page rules if so how does it compare to warhammer fantasy or kings of war? Great video btw!
I like it a lot, and hope one page rules continues to uphold the tradition of affordable and approachable wargaming.
YES AT LAST AN OPR FEATURE!
THANKS DEBBIE DINER DISCOURSE!
Loving this video, my thoughts exactly! thanks Discourse! definitely want to play more GDF soon! cheers and be well soon! 🙃
Glad you enjoyed!
I'd like to try 2nd ed but not sure how/where to start
Good to see you up, over exited and using wild hand jesters again! Great to have you back👍👌🎉
Thanks 👍
gestures not jesters! Stupid auto correct!😂😂😂
"Just like real like most of your problems can be solved by judicious use of murder" Yes, I often find myself trapped in a massive que thinking this situation could be so quickly resolved if I had more hand grenades.
The point about the strategy coming from how units are used on the table, rather than from interactions of complicated rules, is so important to stress when talking about One Page Rules. The game is relatively simple, mechanically, but it's not a brain dead game for babies. It has tactical nuance and depth, that only becomes apparent during play.
Much of the appeal of 40K's complex rules and interlocking systems is, I think, not practical tactics. Rather, it's a game that front-loads its tactical decisions at the list-building stage, and rewards rote memorization of rules interactions. You will, a great percentage of the time, have won or lost before you even set up your board. And the only unpredictability comes from the roll of the dice (which half of the army-building options exist explicitly to mitigate anyway) and from whether you can remember more arcane bullshit than your opponent.
(Honestly, 40K is low-key ablest and classist. The former because you need to have the best memorization powers, to just know how to game the system. The latter because you need to have the time, money, and energy to keep up with a constantly shifting, complicated, and costly meta.)
Some people may enjoy the complexity of 40K. While I can hardly discount their fun, I must ask whether they actually enjoy playing the game itself, or if they simply enjoy solving the puzzle that is 40K before play has even started. If list-building and theory-crafting is the primary draw of this system, I question whether that actually makes 40K fun to play. Or how much tactical expertise succeeding at it really requires, in a player-versus-player sense.
OPR is a simpler system, yes. But so is Chess. You can print the rules for Chess on a flashcard, and a new player can learn the mechanics in fifteen minutes. But no one would ever accuse Chess of being a baby game for babies. No one would accuse Chess grandmasters of not employing high tactical acumen or skill, both before and during play.
my wargaming group is talking about switching over to grimdark future it just gotten so convoluted to build a 40k army heck Age of Sigmar, Kill team and War cry are slowly over taking 40k as what people play
Where is your group located? Los Angeles California here.
@@ogrimdoombringer New Jersey/PA
Well done on surviving and getting a stronger immune system!
Also OPR's are my go to for games these days. So much easier and faster to use, and super easy to teach others!
Also great for solo play
@@schonjones indeed, as I too have had to resort to the shame of playing with myself these last couple years.
I love OPR, however I've only ever played Firefight. Have you tried that? Talk about quick games! It's some fast, furious, fun and you can get in many games in a single evening.
7:40 "This is not the game for you if all you care about is setting and lore." The lore is just couple of paragraphs? All the better. That means less restrictions in creating you own fan-lor, or fan-fiction. In this, I find Warhammer very limiting. Even though I'm not a fan of fact that three factions (Robot Legions, Machine Cult Defilers and Alien Hives + perhaps Soul Snatchers Cults, although in their case it is questionable, as they might be independant from Alien Hives as such, and care more for reign then consumption) are just mindless life-eradicators, sparse lore means more freedom and ways to make your truly unique and own factions
HELLLLL YESSS! One page rules rocks. So many advantages. THIS is the way!
Armies are updated fairly regularly, the free rules are 2 pages the real rules are 32 pages which also get updated fairly regularly. One of the things you missed are missing cards etc also a points calculator so you can make up your own armies
This is like you most possitive video.
I spent 4 hours today watching videos on OPR while glueing my Fellgore Ravengers. I'm one step away from reading the rules lol I love the idea. I live in a small cabin in Wicklow so the Firefight game suits me. I can randomly collect models and play them as any team.
Have you thought about using the army builder to build out factions for the 'alternate reality' 40k you discussed?