Gas vs Diesel HD Truck Fuel Cost Savings: The Hidden Truth
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ก.ย. 2024
- Ever since I switched from diesel to gas, one of the most common objections has been cost savings. Do you save money by switching to gas over the long run? Or, do you end up spending more money with a gas truck vs diesel truck, especially with the fuel ecnomy advantages inherent to diesel trucks? Well, in today's video I seek to prove the point that gas trucks will always be more affordable than diesel trucks over the long haul, but why? Watch along as I go through a spreadsheet with various scenarios to demonstrate.
If you didn't catch the previous MPG videos I've done on my truck, here they are:
Long-term MPG Update on my L8T
• Long-term MPG Update o...
Gas MPG with Allison 10-speed
• MPG Test // I Drive 40...
Highway MPG Test with GM 6.6 L8T
• I Try Again...Highway ...
Gas 6.6L L8T Towing MPG
• I Tow with the 6.6L L8...
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Thank you all for the feedback and comments! I am overwhelmed trying to keep up with all of them and respond, so thank you for your patience. In the meantime I want to address the elephant in the room, the gas vs diesel resale argument, which is indeed missing from the video. First and foremost, I think the landscape has shifted more recently concerning the desirability of gas vs diesel in the HD truck resale market. As a diesel truck owner for the better part of the last decade, I would argue modern diesel trucks are getting increasingly complex with emissions as their achilles heel, trending toward reduced resale appeal, particularly as they age. On the other hand modern gas engines seem to be making a comeback, particularly GM's L8T and Ford's 7.3L Godzilla. I also think the well-known diesel resale argument, when used to suggest that the $10-14K premium paid for a diesel engine will be recovered in an advantageous manner when you resell the same HD truck 3-5 years later is often overplayed and misleading. If anything, car dealerships use the popular diesel resale argument to their advantage to rake in more profit as a canned response during negotiations. Instead I would suggest the diesel resale argument in today's changing market offers diminishing returns. I struggle to see how spending $10-$14K more on a diesel engine, only to get back a fraction 3-5 years later, gives the diesel an advantage and equates to saving money. And, I'll add that I've bought and sold 3 diesel trucks over the last decade...but, I didn't purchase those diesel trucks to save money. Instead, I bought each of them as I desired the unmatched performance and the premium experience that only diesel can deliver. If we gotta pay extra to get that unmatched diesel performance and premium experience in the end, there's nothing wrong with that, right? And that goes for whether Cummins, Duramax, & Powerstroke...they all supremely deliver in the end. This go round though, I chose to save money and go with an HD gas truck, especially given the advances in modern gas trucks. Regardless, I appreciate the comments!
@Adventure Rocks - Great video.
You forgot a few things.
Most diesel trucks from 2007 and newer run D.E.F., that costs more money and hurts fuel mileage on the regeneration.
You can eliminate D.E.F. if it's an older truck or you can do a delete kit and tuning, but that's not free ether. Plus, with a delete, you can't get caught running in California, New York or a few other states without massive fines.
Maintenance costs. Diesel parts cost more money and oil capacity is almost double compared to a gas motor. There are also more filters on most diesel motors.
Downtime on a diesel. Most shops working on a diesel truck will want to unbolt the cab and lift it off the chassis to access the motor a lot of repairs. I'm not saying gas motors give you a lot more room, however in most cases the cab can stay on.
I'm sure I forgot something. If you do another video adding in all the extra costs from all the ideas in the comments, I bet even with running a full-time Hot-Shot job that the break even point is closer to four years if not five.
P.S. Sales tax, license plates, registration and insurance. In my area, Michigan charges by total purchase price of the vehicle, new or used. The higher the price, the more the state and insurance companies steal from you in fees and premiums.
Thank you again for the video.
I can tell you first hand, that 10k to 12k option when new nets you between 2500 to 2700 over a equally equipped gasser when you sell it 4 years later. It burns hard out the rear when you work the numbers.
@@kmonto1971 Thank you, I'm with you. I think it's often misunderstood at large.
Good pin. The resale argument drives me nuts. It seems to be the diesel guys go-to sticking point these days (just look at how many comments there are about it in this video).
How is the go-to not the whole hey I have more than twice the torque of you gasser dudes and could out tow you up the Rockies in reverse! Lol
The power, exhaust break, and ease of refueling have no equivalency for a gasser and yet they can't help themselves trying to talk up the resale thing when that hasn't been a valid advantage at least since DEF was implemented, and probably before that.
@@SliderFury1 well said, there's no shame in bragging about that extra torque and capability!
Don't forget the diesel fuel filter changes and the extra expensive oil changes. It all adds up.
Gas is cheaper if you rarely tow anything
and the DEF you need to buy.
Diesel fuel filters are cheap. Don't replace them at dealership
Before I got my first diesel truck, I did the same thing you did with a spreadsheet to show how many miles I would have to drive to break even. I put about 20K a year on mine, so I'll break even a little bit sooner. I think the newer gasser trucks are more than capable to tow campers/loads up to about 14K as a 5th wheel and more as a conventional trailer. But, when you start getting above the 14K as a 5th wheel, or more weight over all, that's where the diesel truck will shine. And yes, your premium benefits are the ones that helped push me into a diesel truck...esp the truck lanes and the exhaust brake. Great video with lots of great and accurate info for all of us.
Thank you. Great point! That weight number can really sway the difference when it comes to the gas vs diesel experience. 14-15K range vs 6-10K range would make a considerable difference to me in how it handles with the RPM, torque, etc.
I've had a Ford 6.7 powerstroke for nearly 12 years until the engine blew up at 102k miles. However, during that time, I've spent more money maintaining it than I expected. An oil change for example, 13 quarts for the diesel vs 8 for the 6.6L gas every 5k miles adds to the cost. Buying DEF all the time, Emission system sensor failures and replacements, clogged EGR repair, and finally a catastrophic engine failure with a broken exhaust valve where the only option to fix it was to replace the engine for $21k. There is a price to pay for owning one and it goes up the longer you own it.
I hear you, very true.
You took the words right out of my mouth. Before i could type my 2cents i saw your post. Agree 100%
Well I've had numerous ram diesel trucks well past 100k without any of those problems. A diesel with catastrophic failure at barely 100k miles is only a norm with powerstrokes. I'm not writing this statement to ruffle feathers, but it's been true in my experience.
Wow...only 102 miles? POS...
The 6.7 powerstroke is a disaster too. Better off with gas 5.0 coyote
The owner of our local Ford dealer whom I’m friends with told me over 2 decades ago there is no circumstance where the consumer will save money by purchasing a diesel truck. You’re spot on in your analysis. The one caveat is the Hotshot scenario. Remember at 100k a year mileage the truck will have to be replaced every year or two for reliability purposes which will lower savings and resale will go down on an high mileage truck.
Thank you. That's a great point about the hotshot scenario. I didn't think about that 2-3 year upgrade cycle potentially. Another viewer commented that they hotshot with a gas truck, so that further validates your point there.
Or sometime that tows at least a week or more every month
Its even worse than what you present. That extra 10K has additional opportunity cost. That $10K is tied up in the truck, so you can't invest it. If you put that $10K in a 10% growth stock, after 5 years you would have lost about another $6K from losing that investment opportunity. So the diesel engine cost is really a little over $16K more expensive over 5 years, when factoring loss of interest gains.
Good point. Though that $10,000 cost is actually higher. Sales tax, at the very least, and additional interest if financed. Could be closer to a $13,000 initial cost.
Interesting point.
Great points, well said. I didn't even think about that.
You are going to stir up a hornet's nest with this one. Yes, IF you pull heavy, over 12 or 13 thousand pounds up the Rockies all the time, a Diesel will probably work the best for you, but all maintenance costs need to be figured in. Most people don't do that and will find a HD gas rig just fine. Now just sit back and watch the diesel owners start flying all around you.
What I see is if you're towing 10000+ lbs over flat country, get a truck with a gas engine. Mountains and long grades, get a diesel. One issue not mentioned is the service schedule interval is greater with a diesel than gas engine. The timer on the diesel is the same as a gas engine (5000 to 6000 miles). For a diesel, this is complete nonsense! The oils only need changing every 7500 miles at a minimum for severe duty and can go much longer (10,000+ miles) between changes for lighter duty. For many drivers, this means oil changes twice a year at the most. Diesels run cooler and the oil takes longer to deteriorate. That wasn't factored in.
Remember, diesel fuel is a lubricant; gasoline is a solvent.
I hear you!
I have an '03 duramax with over 160, 000 mi I guess I made the right choice for the diesel option putting money back in my pocket and it hasn't cost me anything except regular maintenance and a couple sensors over its life and its still running strong in the injectors were done under warranty back in the day. But with that kind of savings you're showing in fuel that will pay for injectors and I'll still have money in my pocket good job on the stats.
You are right, you won't save money but having the peace of mind that you can easily tow uphill with the truck not straining and get super braking power with the exhaust brake may be worth it. Also, you will recoup some of the diesel engine premium when you sell it or trade it. Look at any 5 plus year old truck and the diesel is worth several thousand more than the same gas truck.
Ive had four diesel pickups, two 7.3s and two duramaxs newest was an 05, and it seemed all i did was work on either one, with repairs being expensive even doing the work myself, now i have two chevys with 8.1/Allison combo with 4.10 gears and they not only pull better than any of those older diesels stcok tuning, but low maintenance and for what i do which is mostly farm work and occasional trips across the state, id rather pay for gas.
The 8.1 is surprisingly more efficient than i expected it actually gets double digits empty😂😂, 11-13 mpg
Towing is 7-8 mpg
Hauling hay never overloaded😂😂😂 5 mpg.
Both trucks have been very reliable.
But if i were pulling everyday for a living, i would have a diesel again!
A diesel makes sense when you’re hauling 10k every day and making money with it other than that it’s just fun to own
5 year 100k warranty for Diesel 💪. If your usually buying extended warranties that is 2 grand right there. Your probably getting 5-7k more depending on mileage when selling.
The real cost difference is just a few grand with above girl math.
Note: IMO - If buying used you are likely getting ALL of the difference back.
The comments about diesel power are spot on. At the end of the day, there is really one big difference when it comes to power. Diesels make power effortlessly. If you love to hear your motor wrapped up to 4000 RPMs, then get a gas. If you want your engine to lumber along at 2000 RPMs (still walking away from the gas at 4000) then save the money and get a gas.
An engine is a tool. I want the one that does the BEST job, no matter what it costs.
As always, your mileage may vary, probably pun intended... 😂
Great point. Right tool is key!
In the1500 series, the diesel engine option is only an extra $700 over a 5.3 and burns 30% less fuel. It will be cheaper in the long run.
Great point. GM really priced the baby dmax right, especially for unladen efficiency. It's kinda a unicorn in the truck space even though it's just half ton/light truck.
What about the resale value on a gas vs diesel? My experience the 10 thousand dollar diesel costs holds it value long term. Or the shorter lifespan of a gasser. I had a 14 ram 3500 hemi, 60 000 miles and they recommended engine replacement. Hemi tick. Now I have a 18 ram 3500 Cummins. 160 000 miles and still going strong.
Thank you for bringing that up, and great point! I've heard the resale argument used by car dealerships as negotiating power, but I've struggled to see it firsthand when I've sold my previous diesel trucks. I think it's the spend more/save more idea on a depreciating asset that I struggle with most. Maybe it's because I didn't keep them as long, but I ended up losing a proportional amount with the depreciation once I factored in that initial premium cost. Perhaps a case by case basis there with longer ownership playing a role, especially pre DPF/modern era when diesels didn't have all the emissions issues longterm. Thank you again.
Great comparison video! Only other scenario that I can think of is longevity. What if buying a diesel allows you to own the truck longer because the power train is so much more durable ( against high mileage). However modern diesel engines also require def, which adds to maintenance. Also oil changes are significantly more expensive in my diesel. Great work though.
Great point! I'm with you. It seems with modern diesels, unless they're "deleted" the longevity factor is impacted by all the emmissions equipment...or at least increases the maintenance and time out of service.
As others have mentioned, erg and other emissions issues are becoming a big problem.
Very true, landscape is changing
Got to add diesel emissions fluid cost with that
Def , more oil , and frequent fuel filter changes is not for me I have an 06 Duramax with 235k but I would go gas next time because of the emissions on diesels make them more problematic. Less I mention have to lift the cab to do certain work on the motor. 😢
Great point. It seems the landscape is changing.
Not to mention maintenance cost difference
Very true!
There's no gas in Australia. We don't get options to choose. Accept in cars.
Most Australians don't even know there's such a thing as gas trucks or even that you have a debate over there about it through your wider population. Things like siting down with the family and having a debate over which fuel type truck to get. This is unheard of.
There is no better video that describes the pro/cons of diesel vs gas. As the owner of three Duramax diesels and now the owner of the same truck as yours, I agree with everything you have pointed out. Vehicles are like ice cream. There are no wrong flavors, the one you like better is the right one for you.
Unless you're a diesel fanboy, then your 400+ HP/Torque one ton gasser that has numbers which top diesels from less than 10 years ago couldn't tow a radio flyer up a 1% grade 😂
When you have a 15,000 loaded trailer then yes diesel is a must.
A diesel truck will be worth $8k-$9k more than the same year and model gas truck for around 5 years so the initial cost is not a loss, it will be recovered when you sell or trade. Factor that in and it is almost a wash.
Great point. Thank you.
@@lazyj7860exactly. every one of these videos always forget to mention this. you get that diesel premium back on the trade in. that would make this chart look very different. i think he should do a follow up to include purchase and sale price for the life of a gas vs diesel truck.
This is applicable for HD trucks. But I switched from gas to diesel in the half ton segment. Diesel in my case just made much more sense. I tow and the GM 5.3L is just too anemic. That's why I upgraded to a 6.2L Silverado. When I bought that truck the 3.0L was in its first year of service, so I decided to pass on it.But when I was looking to upgrade in to a new truck earlier this year I decided on the 3.0L Duramax for several reasons. The new LZ0 was much more powerful than the first gen LM2. The 3.0L also has a very good record of reliability. The 3.0L was a $795 option whereas the 6.2L was a $2195 option. Diesel in my area is typically cheaper than even 87 octane gas and for the 6.2L it's recommended that you use premium gas, which I always did. So fuel is significantly cheaper for the diesel. The fuel filter is a 30,000 mile service at a cost of about $30. Other than that, maintenance is no different than the 6.2L. I had the max trailering package in both trucks, so I have a 3.73 axle now instead of a 3.42. But the fuel economy is amazing with the diesel. Driving my new truck home to Alaska from Idaho I was getting in the 30s. My last fill up before getting home I got 34.1 mpg over a 579.9 mile drive. Towing I was getting 14 mpg. With the 6.2L I would get 8 or 9 mpg. For me the diesel was a no-brainer.
Have you looked at the long term maintenance costs on that engine? Wait until you have to change a timing belt.
Great point. I don't have any firsthand experience, but I've heard that 3.0L gets some amazing fuel economy.
I plan on going with the 3.0l for this same reason! It’s really no comparison for the 1/2 ton vs gas.
Great video. And your comment is I think the best one here. For this GM half ton the baby Duramax would have been a more apples to apples comparison.
@@adventurercalvin The 3.0 uses a chain for timing. It does however use a belt for the oil pump.
Just got out of a 2020 2500HD LTZ L5P. I fell into the diesel hype but with so many problems we encountered with a total of 52 codes with
I hear you, great points! Very well said.
Great video@@AdventureRocks! @kmonto1971 If you want to buy a truck that you plan on keeping for 10+ yrs (til the wheels fall off assuming it's not a lemon), towing 9-10k pounds max, and towing 10-20 times a year, would you still lean towards the gasser? As a smart guy but 100% new to towing, the premium benefits of the diesel are attractive (esp the truck stops w a 30' travel trailer in tow) certainly seem like the safer bet, and with a 10+ yr time horizon the money difference sounds like a wash or leans towards the diesel. Do you two reach the same conclusion?
@@keithellis5297 If it wasn't for modern diesels with all the DPF issues longterm, then I'd spend the extra $$ and go diesel. But, given the 10-20x per year (weekend warrior like myself)...and assuming mostly shorter trips...I'd go with gas if it was me. But, if you were to say 15K GVWR and more frequent towing I'd lean more toward diesel regardless.
@@AdventureRocks Thanks much! Analysis paralysis is such a real thing :) Aside from tow frequency and GVWR, do you think someone new to towing and especially longer travel trailers should just lean towards a diesel regardless? That's probably the last subjective question. I lean towards no since most any newish model year will have the great cameras to help out, but at the end of the day I don't really know what I don't know.
@@keithellis5297 Not necessarily. But, I would definitely would stay away from 1/2 ton trucks. When I started out a decade ago RVing, if I had just bought a 3/4 ton gas truck upfront, it would have saved me from buying at least 2 other trucks and learning the hard way. The 3/4 ton gasser is really a versatile truck overall and more affordable than the diesel. The gasser will have about 700-1000 lbs more payload too. One caveat going diesel is you may be maxed out on your payload if you do a 3/4 ton diesel. A 10K travel trailer may have a tongue weight of 1.5K lbs once fully loaded. Add your passengers and gear...you might be 2.2K lbs or higher...and that's right about a 3/4 ton diesel avg payload (some of the newer ones increase GVWR to give slightly more payload).
There is one big factor you missed. The vehicles value when it's traded for the next one. Diesel cost a lot more new. The diesel is worth a lot more used though. So now rerun all the numbers but lose the 10k upgrade cost because it's recovered in the sale.
Thank you for bringing that up, and great point! I've heard the resale argument used by car dealerships as negotiating power, but I've struggled to see it firsthand when I've sold my previous diesel trucks. Maybe it's because I didn't keep them as long, but I ended up losing a proportional amount with the depreciation once I factored in that initial premium cost. Maybe a case by case basis there with longer ownership playing a role, especially pre DPF/modern era when diesels didn't have all the emissions issues longterm. Thank you again.
I just bought a 22 Duramax used with 30k miles a couple months ago and that is what I discovered as well in the used market. I searched for a few months for the truck I wanted and looked at diesel and gasser. In the end I noticed the trend that most of the trucks I looked at, in the 30-40k miles and less range, whether diesel or gas were very similar in price. The main difference was only the mileage, the gassers had anywhere from 10-20k and the diesels had 30-40k on them in the same price range. I ultimately ended up with the diesel because I found a good price with lower than average miles on it from what I had been seeing.
Buying used definitely makes a difference on the 10k price difference he is referring to, from my personal experience.
@@joshuajohnson7736completely agree. Buy used and the diesel is a much better option.
I’m on my 3rd diesel dually in 25 years. In 1999 diesel was way Cheeper than gas. And the upgrade engine cost was 4K or under. But resale value has enabled me to get a new diesel. Overal in the last 25 years I have saved money but am just now getting close to the break even point. And will probably start going negative soon. However the hauling experience is going to be worth the difference.
If you own a diesel,it is more of a ten year vehicle.A torque machine.
The REAL advantages to diesel are:
Grades: Less stress on the powertrain/transmission when tackling large, long uphill runs.
Elevation: The turbos make it almost a non-factor, whereas gas engines will gave to work quite a bit harder and won't provide as much performance.
Exhaust Braking: Going down grades, this will be a big help, especially with heavier trailers (13K+), and will put less stress on your braking system (although the engine breaking on modern gassers has gotten pretty good).
Refueling: This is actually the big one for most people that they often don't even think about. Lot more accessibility for diesel pumps that will fit your setup and you don't have to fuss with, well, all the other drivers going to the gas pumps.
With all that said, I still went with a gasser (Ford 7.3). I'm towing less than 12K less than 10 time a year and won't be taking any long trips out west and/or up into the mountains until after I retire (no time). Can't stand all the emissions crap on modern diesels and use my truck as an almost-daily driver so gas made the most sense for me.
Great points! Thank you for this!
You kidding about the pump? Lot of gas stations don’t offer the green pump. Also basically all the 1/2 ton gas engines now are turbos with 500+ torque.
Bottom line is get what you like. I hate the smell and sounds and harsh riding unloaded of the kerosene Mobil ESPECIALLY with all the EPA junk on it. If you tow all the time it would make sense.
How do you like the 7.3? I’m really entertaining grabbing one in the next few months.
You are absolutely correct on the pain and maintenance costs of a diesel due to the emissions.
Pretty much on the money but I can think of one other scenario where Diesel make more sense - especially financially. If you cant pull yourself away from GM brand and dribe a 1500 or similar size full size SUV and tow in the 7K lb loads up mountain passes (such as in Colorado), then your choices are the 6.2L gasser or the LZ0 Duramax 3.0. The 5.3L is just under powered for these conditions. The 6.2L engine gets a whopping 18 mpg using Premium when not towing. The cost difference here is significant. Also, the 6.2L engine is several thousand more than the Diesel which is only $1K more expensive than the 5.3L. In CO and Texas Diesel is cheaper than unleaded and significantly cheaper than premium. Under this scenario, Diesel is a much better option even after taking into consideration DEF and higher oil change and fuel filter/maint. Costs.
Nice work, sir. Have owned and continue to own gas-powered trucks. That said, I am also a diesel pickup aficionado, running several diesels over 30 years.
I would observe that although costs and economics can be or are important, many people are willing to pay more for the additional performance of a modern turbo-diesel truck.
Most vehicle purchases are not purely rational, but also emotional/feel good/want vs. need. 🤷🏻♂️😁.
I call it "performance", you call it "premium experience"... two ways to say essentially the same thing. Agreed sir.
Thank you, great points
Great video. I have been saying this for 12 years now as i've personally owned 2 different gas Ram 2500s. First was a 12 Ram 2500 with the 5.7 Hemi and sold it with 203k miles on it and now own a 23 Ram 2500 with the 6.4 Hemi. I love it and it tows my Jeep beautifully.
My first diesel vehicle was a 1971 220 D Mercedes. Diesel fuel cost was at least half that of gas. Moving forward to Ford diesels in 1984 1985 diesel fuel was a little more but still less than gas. Today my 15th + diesel truck. Have 2024 Chevy 3.0 turbo diesel. Gets over 30 mpg when not towing and from 12 to 15 mpg pulling 3700 lb trailer. Same 495 ft lbs of torque as V8 diesel. So I have many arguments to your opinions. Just love diesel. John
I'm with you. I have a 2024 Chevy LZO 3.0 diesel and you are correct, the mileage is incredible - and you still get maximum torque. Great for a daily driver / weekend worker. I previously had a RAM 3500 Cummins DRW - awesome machine and a gasser could never come close to it. No longer tow heavy because I got rid of the fifthwheel camper and bought an RV - with a Cummins diesel motor! Diesel is superior all around. Costs are immaterial. In my mind - a truck is not a truck unless it is powered by diesel. The United States missed the boat on small displacement diesel engines. as mainstream choice of powertrain. Europe got it right! Love diesel!
In looking at the GMC 1500 i6 diesel vs 5.3 gasser, no cost to upgrade. Better economy and longer warranty. For the 2500 HD, yes ,the bigger ones makes less sense. But for the 3.0 vs 5.3? The 3.0 seems the better deal
Great point. This video is for HD trucks, but GM nailed the pricing on the baby dmax. Great option for efficiency-minded drivers.
@@AdventureRocks and 200k before big maintenance required isn't terrible
You really need to add maintenance costs into this equation, gas will shine even more
With DYI maintenance, diesels can actually be a bit cheaper on regular service items.
In bulk, you can buy diesel engine oil and filters for about the same as gas oil and filters. For example, 2 gallons of Mobil1 and a gas engine oil filter will run you about $60-$70. This is more or less what I pay for a filter and 3 gallons of Rotella in bulk. Even just on Amazon, 3 gallons of Rotella are only slightly more than Mobil1 for gas.
Emissions servicing is a point against diesels, but then there or no tune ups or GDI to contend with. This can somewhat balance out.
For the biggest point for diesel, you can save massively on brakes with diesels because of exhaust brakes. For me, brakes and rotors last 3-5x as long. Over the life of the truck, you will save thousands just on brakes. Even if you pay slightly more for other maintenance items, you will get that money back on the braking end of things purely because of an exhaust brake.
On the negative side for diesel, repairs will be much more. No way to make light of that. If you have an EGR go out, a turbo failure, or an HPFP grenade, be prepared to pay big time. These are not certain to be issues for everyone, but it can be issues for some. So, you got to be up on maintenance and always have money ready for when something does happen.
Great point. Those annual duel fuel filters on the Cummins add up $$, even when DIY. Plus the DEF and DPF issues.
My 2004 Ford F-250 with that ancient dinosaur International built 73 got the exact same fuel mileage is my 2012 550 depending on where you get fuel at 13 to 15 Mi a gallon gas powered vehicles pulling the exact same trailer gets between 10 and 15 highway or City
I went through 3 gas powered trucks all three were small V-8 short bed 2 wheel drive. After my 1st truck I kept telling myself the engines were to small , the beds were 2 short and I was tired of getting stuck in places. I needed 4 wheel drive. When shopping the salesman would alway offer me a great deal on these trucks and that's why I bought them, then regretted it later. In 2000 I finally bought the truck I really wanted and needed. I purchased a 1997 F250, super cab, long bed 4X4, 7.3 liter power stroke diesel. The truck had about 80,000 miles on it. It's now 2024, I still have the truck, it has 276,000 miles on it. The transmission went out at 212,000 miles and it sat for 18 months before I could afford to replace it. I bought a new KIA Sportage when the transmission went out and because of the gas mileage and it was much easier to park in the city the KIA became my every day car. That took me a while to get used to. My truck also spends a lot of time idling. I have a small farm on the other side of the state (Washington) and my dog travels with me. When I'm out working on the place my dog is in the truck staying cool in the A/C so my truck may idle for the whole day when not being driven. I don't think a gas engine could take idling 8 hours a day in 90 and 100 degree heat and running the A/C. The gas engine would probably over heat it also just would not last in my opinion. My diesel pickup is old and does not pull the hills like these new trucks especially when towing and does not have all the new electronics but it still runs like a champ.
I honestly believe it has lower maintenance costs also. I've replaced one water pump, 5 alternators, the wiring that runs inside the valve covers for the glow plugs and injectors and all the injectors and most of the flow plugs, the transmission, 4 batteries and a lot of tires and brakes. In a 27 year old truck that I've owned for 24 years I'd say that is pretty good especially considering some of the loads its hauled and pulled. Could a gas engine pickup truck do all that this long with as little maintenance...I don't think so. If you are going to keep your truck for a long time and work it...I think the diesel is the way to go. Will the new diesels do as well? Only time will tell. I also believe the regen systems on the new diesels will hurt their longevity and increase their maintenance costs.
If you cant afford a to run new diesel you cant afford a used one either😂 the following parts can quickly ruin a budget diesel
high pressure pump
set of injectors
turbo
In California, diesel is only a little more than unleaded most of the time, usually on par with premium. Also, with more miles and/or more miles driven and/or you keep the truck longer than 5 years, and diesel can make financial sense. I plan on keeping my diesel F-250 for about 10 years and so far we are averaging 15,000 miles a year, about half of that towing.
Financial aside, diesel just tows better.
Awesome video! Two other things that came to mind for me. What would be the difference in value of the two trucks at the end of 5 years. In other words the diesel truck cost more initially, but it's probably worth more at the end. Secondly I've never owned of diesel but I understand routine maintenance is considerably more expensive. Cost of oil changes for example.
I keep both and disagree with diesel's not being a financial advantage. I typically purchase older, well broken in (depreciated) vehicles, as I have my own shop to do the repairs as needed. I can pick up a 25 year old f350 with the 7.3 International engine for around $7,000 right now on a truck that has around 200,000 miles but with approximately 5k into the transmission and 15k into the engine that 27k total expense will last for 300k miles. Try that with even a 15 year old gas and you will be replacing way too many things to make the truck work vs the diesel. That said, I like my gas trucks, I drive newer gas and old diesel.
That doesn’t account for maintenance, DEF, insurance, taxes or repairs. Many localities will tax diesel HD trucks as commercial trucks. My county does.
Buying a 2500 diesel to daily drive it will never make sense, but buying a 1500 diesel, like the 3.0 dmax makes way more sense. Highway not pulling a trailer I, getting 28 miles to the gallon and when I as pulling my enclosed trailer I would get around 13 on the highway. Around town not pulling anything I average 22. Most people have no use for a 2500 pickup.
most diesel owners are not trading in their new diesels. they will keep them for like 8 years or 10 years lol. also id rather pay extra for being safer with that diesel exhaust break. thats a big reason why i like diesels. much safer coming down these mountains
Diesel drives very different than gas . Like the difference V6 turbo vs V8. It just a more comfortable competent feeling truck . You get lots more back in resale too. Diesel fuel big difference in states $$ so check before you buy one . Diesel also higher in winter or if we get into war gets very $ high .
Duramax 3.0 or eco diesel 3.0 way better milage than gasser.
Get the optional larger tank and go up to 1,000 miles non stop .
Love my L5P truck. But I always say it’s not cheaper when you do the math. We have two 6.0 gas trucks for employees. They all put in the same work. The diesel is just a more premium experience as you stated.
That doesn't even take into the account of service in the same time frame. Like fuel filters. And oul changes.
I agree, I have flipped over to gas as well. A complete engine replacement is comparable to a major fuel system overhaul on a diesel.
Until you loose a dpf filter 8k or a injection system 11k or god forbid a catastrophic failure 30k you didnt factor in the maintenance fuel filters DEF fluid on the Ford there’s two Cooling systems if you are running a business diesel trucks do not make sense. I don’t care how many miles you’re putting on a year. I can re moter the gas truck for what it cost to do the injection system on the Deisel
Remember IFTA at the pump that you pay on diesel that is not on gas. So if you don’t use it commercially you don’t get to write off!
A diesel makes sense when you’re hauling 10k every day and making money with it other than that it’s just fun to own
Few things. The $10K diesel option is usually returned at trade-in time, so that's a wash. You missed the maintenance costs between the two, with diesel being much higher than gas. And, diesel gels in the cold winter requiring more attention and maintenance than gas (which doesn't freeze). Issues; okay, you can buy an extended warranty out to 100K miles to cover the drivetrain, but after that, you are on your own for any diesel repairs. And, with the way diesels are so choked with all of the emissions stuff on them, I'd say there's a really good chance of a major repair bill after 100K. I'm a Ford guy (my 2023 F150 with the 3.5L ecoboost and 10 speed transmission is a monster towing our 7,200 lb travel trailer), but look at the Godzilla motor and 10 speed transmission in the F250... massive power and ability to handle up to around 18K towing. I'll close by saying towing above 15K, the diesel starts winning, just because of performance... but, man oh man, under 15K, these new trucks with big gas motors and 10 speed transmissions are the way to go, I think. This is creating a dilemma for us deciding our next camper... we're actually looking at staying under 15K so we can get a gas truck instead of diesel. Good topic to discuss! I'd appreciate any feedback if I'm missing anything. Cheers! Pete in Arizona - KI7LIL
Diesel for GM come with 100k 5 year warranty. No extended needed to buy. Does not change your math much but just wanted to add this clarification.
Great points! Thank you for adding this!
100% agree with your first statement regarding trade value. The Diesel retains that value at the time of trade or resale. I typically tow about a 20k gooseneck and have had diesel for the last 25 years. I will also agree with the emissions on the newer trucks, traded one in just for that reason once the extended warranty was up.
@@peterkunka2694 this is correct. Re: costs returned (partially) at trade. However, if financing it should also be noted that there are increased carrying costs not covered as well. Not to push anyone off, just trying to be as close to accurate as possible wrt to diesel/gas. Diesels do have their place. If one is towing 5-10x a year, I believe they are better with gas. Imo from a cost perspective.
@peterkunka2694 I just finished an extensive 5 month long search for my next truck. I looked at both new and used HD trucks. At least in my area used diesel’s absolutely do not bring anywhere close to what you pay for them up front. At best you might get 1/2 of that 10k back but it’s definitely not a wash. Again this is in my area.
I have a 2003 f350 7.3. Im looking at these gas trucks. I have a diesel not a dieZel. 🤣
What about maintenance oil changes everything cost more on diesel trucks.
Great question. I heard that too, but after owning 3 diesel trucks I found that the maintenance was only slightly higher. If it helps to know on my 6.7 Cummins, I spent about $80 on synthetic oil + filter, $100 on dual fuel filters, and about $100 on DEF per year. I did it myself to save on labor and tried to order parts online to save more $$. But, I do think if you take a diesel truck to a dealership for maintenance there's an automatic surcharge just because it's diesel, so definitely a factor of consideration. And, then the long-term issues with emissions systems once out of warranty could be a big expense. Thank you for the comment.
I have a 2023 LZ0 diesel Chevy 1/2ton just came back from a trip to Tennessee I live in NY round trip was 2200 miles I was towing a 14 foot V-nose trailer with two touring Harleys with a lot of gear 5,000 pounds total I was averaging between 14 to 17.5 mpg used 5 boxes of blue platinum def 20.00 a box. My friend that went with us also has a 14 foot V nose with one Harley in it total for him was around 3200 pounds he was towing it with a Dodge truck 1/2 ton with a hemi he was averaging around 8 mpg spent quite a bit more money on gas than I did. I factor the def in also. So the advantages of a diesel it is a torque monster. It’s fun to drive but it is a pain in the ass to find diesel and you have to put def in when you’re hauling something heavy. It goes through it like water! So would I but another diesel NO! (Just my opinion)
It’s crazy how much more the lZ0 guzzles def vs lm2. I did a similar trip towing my viper across country 3k miles, similar weight as you and only had to fill up the tank twice.
@@jemery3Thats a big difference!
Very true. That torque is just an absolute delight especially when towing.
@@gabe9158 the LZO has a second DEF injector to help with emissions and in theory a more reliable def system but it uses so much more when towing it’s kinda ridiculous. The extra power sounds nice though! How’s your mpg when not towing? My 22 trailboss gets 25-26.5 when going 75mph, more if I go slower. So far over the 40k trouble free miles I’ve average 22.3 mpg with just under 9k of that towing.
My mpg is about the same as yours when not towing! I didn’t realize they put another Def injector in! it all makes sense now
Great content. Your viewership comments are so valuable.
For the lack of use of my gasser, and the occasional use for local towing of 8,000 lbs. Of RV, gas is the answer. To each their own.
Agree that DEF and maintenance costs would only increase your spreadsheet valves, but much of that could be speculative.
Nice job presenting clearly.
Thank you, appreciate that! Very true on the maintenance and def.
Well definitely helped lol.. I drive 35k a year in F150 at 21mpg, and kept looking at the 3.0 duramax claiming 28-30.. thank you for the breakdown of information
perhaps addressed previously...is the unleaded cost for 91 octane PREMIUM fuel - required for the 6.6L
For the 6.6L L8T just regular 87 octane is recommended. No need for premium, but can't hurt, right? GM has a 6.2L L87 that is more performance/light truck oriented, and that one requires premium fuel...it's more for performance whereas L8T is more of a workhorse for HD truck use.
If you want to save money over the long haul, don't buy a truck.
Exactly. I bought a truck to do truck stuff.
You sold me on Gas. I tow a 9K pound Travel Trailer with an old GMC Serra. I would like to know why you went from a 5th Wheel to a Travel Trailer.
I hear you. I think especially being a weekend warrior the gas makes more sense, and if one's goal is to save $$, then it just fits together nicely going gas. I enjoyed my previous fifth wheels, particularly the space inside, but I found the places we wanted to go oftentimes, such as state parks, I was limited with the size (one was 42' and other was 44') to the point I couldn't get a site. Plus, lately I've been doing more 2-3 night weekend trips and such where simplicity makes things a lot easier. I am really enjoying the size of my current travel trailer...it's just a lot simpler to deploy and more cost effective. But, just a personal preference. Always trade-offs, right?
Upon resale in 5 years you also recover a lot of that money let the default costume. Not all of it..
The cost of maintenance is a huge factor that would be a even larger cost to the equation of Gas vs. Diesel.
For Sierra 1500 AT4 the diesel engine is included!
What about the Duramax 3.0 baby diesel? I own that one and its 25-34 mpg average, plus the power/torque is massive compared to its 5.3L gas burner counterpart! You need to do a 1500 comparison of the 5.3L gas vs 3.0L Duramax! My 3.0 Duramax gets 18 mpg pulling an empty 1,800lb cargo trailer and 18 mpg pulling the same trailer loaded with 3,000-4,000 lbs (5,800 lbs overall) on a 900 mile round trip! That trip is 80% flat and 20% lightly graded through small foot hills.
Great question. This video is for HD trucks, but GM nailed the pricing on the baby dmax. It's kinda a unicorn in some ways, and a great option for efficiency goals in lighter trucks.
I've had two diesel trucks in the past back when diesel was a little cheaper, which was a while back in 2012. The cost of maintenance is always going to cost more for a diesel than gas, not including what it cost if the diesel engine has to be worked on and the related emission problems. The only way to justify having a diesel truck is if you either have the money to blow or you have a business to write it off as a loss at the end of the year, other than that Gas will work just fine for most people, unless your towing a really heavy trailer and climbing high elevations all the time.
For me, I cut my loss and bought a gas Half ton that will tow my tractors around 10,000 pounds with no problems. You have to know what your going to be doing to figure out what truck works best for your needs.
Great points
What about durability? Should that come into effect if you are planning to put some serious miles ?
I hear you, great question. Time will tell on the new HD gas engines like the L8T and Godzilla. They seem to be derated with longevity in mind. But, then on the flip side there's the complexity of modern diesel engines with emissions issues long-term. Tough landscape today in HD trucks. Thanks for the comment!
My 3500 dodge 5.9 diesel got DOUBLE. THE mileage of my 1 ton Chev long bed pulling my 5th wheel....till TODAY when i was told i needed 15 000.00 to fix the Dodge 3500...9000.00 in parts and 6000.00 labor...
Injectors , fuel pump in tank,
In 5 years when you sell or trade in the diesel truck how much more is it worth over a gas truck ? That should be subtracted from the $10,000 diesel premium. When towing with a gas truck most manufacturers recommend premium fuel.
Great question. The L8T is just regular octane as it's more of a workhorse, but you're right about some of the consumer/light truck engines recommending premium fuel. I've heard the resale argument used by car dealerships as negotiating power, but I've struggled to see it firsthand when I've sold my previous diesel trucks. I think it's the spend more/save more idea on a depreciating asset that I struggle with most. Maybe it's because I didn't keep them as long, but I ended up losing a proportional amount with the depreciation once I factored in that initial premium cost. Perhaps a case by case basis there with longer ownership playing a role, especially pre DPF/modern era when diesels didn't have all the emissions issues longterm. Thank you again.
Nice video. I too am a spreadsheet nerd. Haha. One thing that will affect the numbers is looking at trade in or difference in value at the five year mark. Some of that up front premium is going to come back in higher used value.
It’s hard to factor into a spreadsheet since it’s not guaranteed inputs, especially when comparing new trucks but a set of injectors could be more $$$ than a new engine in the gas truck.
Great points!
You'll get the extra $10k you spent to buy the diesel engine back when you sell/trade the truck vs. the sale/trade value of a gas truck. Based on that, the diesel is financially better than the gas engine options.
Thank you for bringing that up, and great point! I've heard the resale argument used by car dealerships as negotiating power, but I've struggled to see it firsthand when I've sold my previous diesel trucks. Maybe it's because I didn't keep them as long, but I ended up losing a proportional amount with the depreciation once I factored in that initial premium cost. Maybe a case by case basis there with longer ownership playing a role, especially pre DPF/modern era when diesels didn't have all the emissions issues longterm. Thank you again.
Ok 2024 AT4 comes stock with the 3.0 eco Diesel. So to get the same towing torque you g have to upgrade to the 6.2 L gas, which requires premium fuel. So it cost 2k more. My 3.0 STOCK DIESEL gets 24mpg in my AT4. THE 6.2 GETS 15MPG. Honestly even if you buy the Chevy and upgrade to the 3.0 which is 2400$ the gas savings makes it a wash. Maybe I’m picking and choosing…maybe a true diesel,guy would say that’s not a real diesel! But this diesel gets insane gas mileage and is the same build as most all European diesels.
Great points
Good spreadsheet but you didn’t factor in the difference in residual valve difference at the end of 5 years. A diesel truck will be worth more. Will you get the whole diesel premium back, maybe or maybe not. But adding the amount of the residual difference to fuel savings, it might.
Thank you for bringing that up, and great point! I've heard the resale argument used by car dealerships as negotiating power, but I've struggled to see it firsthand when I've sold my previous diesel trucks. I think it's the spend more/save more idea on a depreciating asset that I struggle with most. Maybe it's because I didn't keep them as long, but I ended up losing a proportional amount with the depreciation once I factored in that initial premium cost. Perhaps a case by case basis there with longer ownership playing a role, especially pre DPF/modern era when diesels didn't have all the emissions issues longterm. Thank you again.
Well, you left out an important point for diesel... RESALE!
We're calling the $10,000 option an added "cost", but the reality is the diesel becomes a massive asset come resale. It's very common to see diesels, even used diesels with 100k+ miles, still selling for $5k-$10k above what you'd paid for similar mile used gas trucks, sometimes even more. With that, diesel starts to make more sense.
For me, I just don't even consider the upgrade as a "cost", it's just something I get back at the end my ownership, like a refundable security deposit. Basically, as long I don't blow the engine up, I get my money back at the end of it.
Also, there are other big benefits to diesels besides fuel savings and better resale. Diesels with exhaust brakes, particularly Cummins diesels and their strong exhaust brakes, will save you on brake pads and rotors. Over the life the vehicle, you could see thousands of dollars in savings just on brakes. This is especially true for people who do a lot of towing and/or stop and go driving. As someone who's towed a lot with gas and diesel, I can attest to that saving from exhaust brakes. Resale aside, the saving and security and confidence you get with an exhaust brake makes the diesel premium worth it.
That said, I wouldn't encourage someone who doesn't really need a diesel to go out and get a diesel. There are other issues that comes with diesel ownership. The emissions stuff can be killer for people who don't use these trucks as intended. For those who'd buy diesel for no reason beyond just wanting one, they should think twice. It maybe a very expensive headache in the end.
When it comes to repairing a diesel it's a lot more expensive to
Yes they do hold their value but cost of ownership is still higher on a diesel. That exhaust brake you bring up. It is achieved with a variable geometry turbo which all do fail. Have you priced out how much one of those turbos are? And then what if you happen to have a high pressure fuel pump fail and have to replace everything in your fuel system. That repair alone costs as much as the diesel engine option in the initial purchase of the truck. Emission control issues, another costly expense.
@@adventurercalvin Having owned many trucks, I'm fully aware of the cost when it comes to repairs. It's not cheap.
However, that's not something long-term owners face as often as you'd be concerned with. Certainly not in my case.
You know, my current 6.7L diesel has nearly 250k miles on it right now. It's fully stock, 100% original powertrain, turbo, injection system, and all emissions stuff like the DPF and EGR, it's all been there from the factory. No repairs done to any of it. Could that stuff fail soon? Sure, but who cares???
With 250k miles and the work I do with the truck, the truck doesn't owe me a thing anymore. It's already paid for itself several times over. At this point, the thing has become a cash saving cow. If the thing quits tomorrow, I couldn't be mad because it's way ahead financially.
But it shows no sign of quitting. So, all it's doing is delivering piece of mind.
I hear you! Thank you for bringing that resale issue up. I completely forgot to mention that! Sometimes I wonder if the resale argument is more useful to car dealerships to help them justify lowballing gas trade-ins and limiting discounts on diesel MSRP? Certainly makes sense, but I wonder if we forget when we go to sell that diesel truck years later how much we spent on the diesel premium initially? Definitely a point of consideration though!
@@AkioWasRight my boss has a couple of diesels in a couple of gas trucks so one day I asked him what should I get a diesel or a gas he told me if you don't need a diesel don't get a diesel
What about resale value on a diesel vs gas truck? Diesel trucks tend to fetch a premium. Diesel maintenance will always be way more.
Great question. I've heard the resale argument used by car dealerships as negotiating power, but I've struggled to see it firsthand when I've sold my previous diesel trucks. I think it's the spend more/save more idea on a depreciating asset that I struggle with most. Maybe it's because I didn't keep them as long, but I ended up losing a proportional amount with the depreciation once I factored in that initial premium cost. Perhaps a case by case basis there with longer ownership playing a role, especially pre DPF/modern era when diesels didn't have all the emissions issues longterm. Thank you again.
You buy a diesel truck when it's the best truck for the job. I don't think your gas truck could handle my 20k lb fifth wheel.
Exactly, I'm not dealing with all the emissions crap and regens and engine block heating in the winter and DEF, etc of a diesel for my 10K trailer. Total overkill.
Very true. Right tool makes all the difference!
You cant count diesel upgrade cost without factoring in resale value. A gas 3/4 plummets in value a well equipped 3/4 diesel costs 40k plus even with over 100000 miles.
I hear you. Sometimes I wonder if the resale argument is overstated and used more by car dealerships. I've always struggled with the spend more/save more argument on depreciating assets, but I may be in minority there.
The money saving is more on the pre emissions trucks, i went from a 460 to an idi and use half the fuel and its still cheap to maintain, for the new ones with def and costly parts its really only an advantage if your using your truck daily to make money off it and are keeping it for long enough that the durability difference matters
Really solid point. Landscape is definitely changing.
Great video, you nailed it on the head. I currently own a cummins and im switching to a truck just like yours. Like you said though, it is an experience. That torque, exhaust brake, a night and day difference. Massive smile on the face. But boy do you pay for that experience. Maintenence costs, In the shop for emmisions issues, def, 2 head gaskets, new turbo, egr, transmission ive had enough. Im a weekend warrior and mainly city driving so the diesel has got to go. Thanks for all the time you put in 👍
Thank you. Well said!
Honest question, who keeps vehicles for five years? I keep mine for at least 10. Wouldn’t your savings increase the longer you keep the vehicle?
GREAT point. Yes, longer years typically = more mileage and certainly would see that over 10 years. The diesel gets diminished with the premium cost upfront, but I really think if you want that premium experience diesel is the way to go regardless. Otherwise the gas will likely be more affordable. Very much a personal decision based on your use.
We debt-loving Americans would rather pay a couple hundred more a month on payments than pay more at the pump…
Very true
I am a huge fan of the ls line of engines. But when engineers started playing with afm dod and so on the reliability of that 200k + engine dropped to around 100k -. Chevys were eating the rear two cylinders out at between 80k and 130k I was averaging 13mpg in a crew cab 4wd. I have a dodge Cummins 3/4 ton 4wd crew cab and with a little work it gets 25 mpg. My oil changes are cheaper but I went from royal purple and a ac delco filter to cat oil and a cat filter (I work there so I get the discount.) yes initial start up was pricier but the maintenance is cheaper, and I’m not looking at having to buy an engine between 80 and 130,000 miles.
Thank you for this 🔥👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
I have only owned older diesels but they are noisy, not so premium if you haul the family for vacations or do lots of miles.
That's true, they used to be noisy...but in a good manly way, right? :)
The biggest advantage of a diesel truck is how it feeds your ego!
Ha, kinda like my borla exhaust I suppose...
It’s always been a pretty straight forward thing. You pay considerably more for a truck with a diesel engine. The fuel savings don’t recoup that unless you are hauling heavy loads full time. Other than that, if you constantly drive with heavy loads up and down in altitude you need the torque of a diesel.
With regular maintenance, a Cummins 6.7L should get you to the 1/2 a million mileage range and beyond. My 2011 $8K premium should payoff much further down the road. I'll need another 20 years to get there and verify. DIY maintenance and buying fluids and filters onsale and in bulk is important to keep costs down on a diesel.
The entire premise of your savings is the extra 10k on the diesel engine but you don't really lose that when you sell it. So it just the opportunity cost of that 10k used elsewhere. Example you invest the 10k and make some percentage per year on it. That's the real cost. All other factors are a wash. MPG only benefits at really high mileage like at 100k or more miles and of course the cost difference in fuel is a huge factor in how that numbers out.
How about how much more you can sell it for when your done with it.
I've always struggled with the spend more/save more argument on depreciating assets, but I may be in minority there.
What about the 3.0 in the Chevy 1500’s?
Great question. This video is for HD trucks, but the baby dmax is a great option for efficiency in lighter trucks.
I have the same exact truck as yours. Searched on line for 9 months on AutoTrader and had it shipped to me in Montana. Super truck for pulling in the mountains.
Very nice! I'm really enjoying mine.
When I was configuring and buying my F450, the fleet manager ran the numbers, and we determined that the break even point for my mix of towing and running loaded was 300,000 miles for the diesel. I bought the V10 which averages 7mpg towing a toy hauler at 18,000 pounds, or 12 mpg with about 1500 pounds in the bed. If I don’t need the load capacity I take a smaller vehicle, sometimes with a small trailer. The oil changes and fuel filters are considerably less expensive for the gas engine. My diesel Jeep averaged 29 mpg with 3 fuel stops in 1500 miles on a recent trip through the northwest. It gets 25mpg towing a 5x8 enclosed trailer. The gas Highlander V6 gets 19 mpg pulling the same trailer. My actual numbers agree with your findings. Both the Jeep rated 240hp and the Highlander rated 295hp have adequate power for passing and climbing grades.
You raise a great point. And it reminds me that fleet managers would know given they a have a fiduciary responsibility to deliver the most cost effective to their tax payers or employer. Their job is literally on the line based on how they run the numbers.
Some times you just have to buy what you want! Which is what i did, my first diesel, used, love it. Most powerful truck I've ever had and the exhaust brake is awesome. I did the same cost comparison and knew I'd never get a break even, but i didn't care. Yolo right!! Lol
@@JustinKingOffroad Well said. There's no shame in spending more to get the unmatched performance and premium experience with the diesel.
Great video. It doesnt matter what fuel mileage it gets the cost of DEF, fuel price as well as maintenace for fuel filters more oil capacity for oil changes, now factor in cost of repairs. diesels do tend to hold value at re sale compated to a gas significantly tho. I still think a Hybrid gas 3/4 or 1 ton will be the game changer. Gives you the comparible fuel mileage too a diesel, and added power while towing. Plus i like the idea of being -40C and my hybrid motor turns on and instantly warms up cab and gas motor prior to battery depletion. Your diesel "might" turn on that day. But it damn sure better be plugged in, high quality fuel or fuel additive as well as cycle the glow plugs.
Great point, very instresting on the hybrid concept. Thanks for sharing.
An hotshot driver never keeps his/her truck that long…. Just get the gas people
I hotshot with my gas truck
Very nice!
Long story short, diesel trucks are made commercial level work loads.
I live In PA and in my area diesel is .05 cheaper than regular 87 gas. If you run premium diesel is significantly cheaper at the moment. Add in the resale value and the piece of mind of effortless towing my fifth wheel, I didn’t think twice about trading my 2015 Cummins on a 2024 Cummins HO.
Should have said premium gas, then diesel is significantly cheaper
Where in PA exactly? Cause I'm in central PA and I have never seen diesel cheaper than premium. It's always $0.70 - $1.10 more than regular.
Bloomsburg Sheetz. Paid $3.25 for diesel tonight. 87 was $3.29 and premium was $3.69…..the last 6 months I have paid less for diesel than gas. First time in 10 years of owning a diesel.
Great point. The fuel price can definitely change the outcome. Nothing like the torque on a diesel engine. Cummins HO is a beast of beasts.
@@one24mikethis sheetz is biodiesel up to 20% used cooking oil which i had been running all spring and summer and switched over to regular diesel now and I have been getting about 1mpg better so not much different but I also don't drive mind thru the winter so I don't want gelled fuel sitting there but did enjoy the savings all summer
Used deisel seems like the best option
Great point
Is there a way to make this spreadsheet out to 15 years?
No arguing your data; makes perfect sense. My decision was on the 6.2L V8 OR the 3.0L Duramax. The minimax upcharge was about $4k in 2023 (arguable because the 6.2L was hard to find and dealers charged a PREMIUM for it over the 3.0). With the MPG variance on these engines (9 towing with the 6.2 and 16 with the 3.0), the "savings" delta becomes a was (mostly). Mostly, because as others have said: DEF, Oil (freaking DexosD must be made with Manatee oil).
I've owned diesels since my 2001 7.3L Powerstroke, so I just prefer them; but you're right . . . from a finance perspective: no way.
Well spoken and great data. I love my high mileage diesel, which I bought used and had to repair before using. Pulling with the diesel is hands down a better experience. Echoing some of the comments, maintenance is a LOT more $$$$. New diesels use that DEF crap, which the cost might be negligible?
Thanks for the comparison!
Like some commentators you need to factor in, engine cost, DEF, and the cost oil cost. Then the cost difference will shine
I tow about 5k miles year using my 08 V10 F250. Works fine for my needs without the worry of high repair bills of a diesel. Just put in gas and oil changes every 5k miles and it's good!
Great point. V10 power is a beast.
I did a similar spreadsheet about 10yrs ago, but based it on mileage, not time, and included the diesel premium. Mainly because all scheduled periodic maint is based on mileage. I calc'd fuel, oil and fuel filters, oil changes. Fuel mileage was unloaded, knowing the diesel would benefit when weighted down. Not calc'd was catastrophic breakdown of engine or trans. The breakover point was at about 140k miles, whether that is @5yrs or 20yrs of ownership. After that, diesel costs less to own.
Good video. Buy what you want/need, but don’t disillusion yourself with the notion that diesel is saving money somehow.
Other factors that work against paying a premium for diesel trucks too: you paid tax on that extra $10,000, and added interest if you financed it. Maintenance costs - extra cost DEF and higher prices for routine service. Finally, reliability - modern emissions diesels are not holding up well, though that’s hit and miss.