There is no better video that describes the pro/cons of diesel vs gas. As the owner of three Duramax diesels and now the owner of the same truck as yours, I agree with everything you have pointed out. Vehicles are like ice cream. There are no wrong flavors, the one you like better is the right one for you.
Unless you're a diesel fanboy, then your 400+ HP/Torque one ton gasser that has numbers which top diesels from less than 10 years ago couldn't tow a radio flyer up a 1% grade 😂
Good points throughout the video. One thing you did not include, though, is maintenance costs. Diesels generally have higher maintenance costs than gas trucks. With the turbo and emissions systems in diesels, be prepared to spend more if the need service. I have a gas truck I drive every day, mostly short commutes (not good for diesels). I know people that have $100 diesel trucks that spend most of the year sitting in the garage. But then again, they are getting that "premium experience" you mentioned! 😊
Great video. I have been saying this for 12 years now as i've personally owned 2 different gas Ram 2500s. First was a 12 Ram 2500 with the 5.7 Hemi and sold it with 203k miles on it and now own a 23 Ram 2500 with the 6.4 Hemi. I love it and it tows my Jeep beautifully.
Very few people buy a diesel truck for fuel economy. We all buy them for the convenience, power, torque, increased peace of mind and towing capacity. I went from a ram 2500 diesel to an F150 5.0 gas. I made sure it was set up with everything I needed to tow my Imagine camper and Malibu wakeboard boat. If I had the choice to make that decision again I would have stuck with the Ram diesel. The power, the convenience and the towing capacity is something I desire to get back to at a future date. I’m thinking an older ram 2500 as a second vehicle non-daily driver because I tow less than 5000 miles per year. I love the breakdown you did. Thanks for sharing!
The REAL advantages to diesel are: Grades: Less stress on the powertrain/transmission when tackling large, long uphill runs. Elevation: The turbos make it almost a non-factor, whereas gas engines will gave to work quite a bit harder and won't provide as much performance. Exhaust Braking: Going down grades, this will be a big help, especially with heavier trailers (13K+), and will put less stress on your braking system (although the engine breaking on modern gassers has gotten pretty good). Refueling: This is actually the big one for most people that they often don't even think about. Lot more accessibility for diesel pumps that will fit your setup and you don't have to fuss with, well, all the other drivers going to the gas pumps. With all that said, I still went with a gasser (Ford 7.3). I'm towing less than 12K less than 10 time a year and won't be taking any long trips out west and/or up into the mountains until after I retire (no time). Can't stand all the emissions crap on modern diesels and use my truck as an almost-daily driver so gas made the most sense for me.
You kidding about the pump? Lot of gas stations don’t offer the green pump. Also basically all the 1/2 ton gas engines now are turbos with 500+ torque. Bottom line is get what you like. I hate the smell and sounds and harsh riding unloaded of the kerosene Mobil ESPECIALLY with all the EPA junk on it. If you tow all the time it would make sense.
I've had a Ford 6.7 powerstroke for nearly 12 years until the engine blew up at 102k miles. However, during that time, I've spent more money maintaining it than I expected. An oil change for example, 13 quarts for the diesel vs 8 for the 6.6L gas every 5k miles adds to the cost. Buying DEF all the time, Emission system sensor failures and replacements, clogged EGR repair, and finally a catastrophic engine failure with a broken exhaust valve where the only option to fix it was to replace the engine for $21k. There is a price to pay for owning one and it goes up the longer you own it.
Well I've had numerous ram diesel trucks well past 100k without any of those problems. A diesel with catastrophic failure at barely 100k miles is only a norm with powerstrokes. I'm not writing this statement to ruffle feathers, but it's been true in my experience.
This is applicable for HD trucks. But I switched from gas to diesel in the half ton segment. Diesel in my case just made much more sense. I tow and the GM 5.3L is just too anemic. That's why I upgraded to a 6.2L Silverado. When I bought that truck the 3.0L was in its first year of service, so I decided to pass on it.But when I was looking to upgrade in to a new truck earlier this year I decided on the 3.0L Duramax for several reasons. The new LZ0 was much more powerful than the first gen LM2. The 3.0L also has a very good record of reliability. The 3.0L was a $795 option whereas the 6.2L was a $2195 option. Diesel in my area is typically cheaper than even 87 octane gas and for the 6.2L it's recommended that you use premium gas, which I always did. So fuel is significantly cheaper for the diesel. The fuel filter is a 30,000 mile service at a cost of about $30. Other than that, maintenance is no different than the 6.2L. I had the max trailering package in both trucks, so I have a 3.73 axle now instead of a 3.42. But the fuel economy is amazing with the diesel. Driving my new truck home to Alaska from Idaho I was getting in the 30s. My last fill up before getting home I got 34.1 mpg over a 579.9 mile drive. Towing I was getting 14 mpg. With the 6.2L I would get 8 or 9 mpg. For me the diesel was a no-brainer.
I agree 100% on the premium experience. I have had my first diesel a 2020 silverado 1500 high country diesel for 2 years now. I have had many gas trucks before not even taking into account mpgs or any extra costs the driving experience with the diesel is much favorable for me at least. Towing or not the diesel torque band and the I6 diesel in the 1500 is so so smooth, it all makes for great every day driving. All ways liked my gasser but it's diesel going forward for me.
I don't have much experience with newer diesels, but a big reason we used to buy them is that the engine life span of diesel was nearly twice that of a gasser. I don't get a new truck every 5 years, I keep them till they're no longer reliable which is usually closer to 25 years.
Such a timely video! We fulltimed around the United States for 6 years pulling a 40' - 14,000# fifth wheel, with a Ram 3500 cummings diesel. We put over 100,000 miles plus on the fifth wheel, so feeling extremely confident the diesel upgrade more that paid for itself. However now we have downsized our fifth wheel to a 29' - 8,000# which we will pull around very little, we have been talking gasser!!
Thanks for this video. Been on the fence about selling my Cummins and getting a Gasser. Only pull camper 10 times a year so I agree with every point you made
Thanks for this video. It's very helpful for people like me who want to be wealthier. A penny saved is a penny earned. Impressing others is fun, but costs money.
With DYI maintenance, diesels can actually be a bit cheaper on regular service items. In bulk, you can buy diesel engine oil and filters for about the same as gas oil and filters. For example, 2 gallons of Mobil1 and a gas engine oil filter will run you about $60-$70. This is more or less what I pay for a filter and 3 gallons of Rotella in bulk. Even just on Amazon, 3 gallons of Rotella are only slightly more than Mobil1 for gas. Emissions servicing is a point against diesels, but then there or no tune ups or GDI to contend with. This can somewhat balance out. For the biggest point for diesel, you can save massively on brakes with diesels because of exhaust brakes. For me, brakes and rotors last 3-5x as long. Over the life of the truck, you will save thousands just on brakes. Even if you pay slightly more for other maintenance items, you will get that money back on the braking end of things purely because of an exhaust brake. On the negative side for diesel, repairs will be much more. No way to make light of that. If you have an EGR go out, a turbo failure, or an HPFP grenade, be prepared to pay big time. These are not certain to be issues for everyone, but it can be issues for some. So, you got to be up on maintenance and always have money ready for when something does happen.
Your numbers are about spot on.I had a 2022 ho Cummins and I have a 2022 7.3 gas . With in a fraction of Pennie’s per mile to drive either truck….i traded the ram in last week and bought a power stroke only to own the diesel…..
Before I got my first diesel truck, I did the same thing you did with a spreadsheet to show how many miles I would have to drive to break even. I put about 20K a year on mine, so I'll break even a little bit sooner. I think the newer gasser trucks are more than capable to tow campers/loads up to about 14K as a 5th wheel and more as a conventional trailer. But, when you start getting above the 14K as a 5th wheel, or more weight over all, that's where the diesel truck will shine. And yes, your premium benefits are the ones that helped push me into a diesel truck...esp the truck lanes and the exhaust brake. Great video with lots of great and accurate info for all of us.
Thank you. Great point! That weight number can really sway the difference when it comes to the gas vs diesel experience. 14-15K range vs 6-10K range would make a considerable difference to me in how it handles with the RPM, torque, etc.
Great content. Your viewership comments are so valuable. For the lack of use of my gasser, and the occasional use for local towing of 8,000 lbs. Of RV, gas is the answer. To each their own. Agree that DEF and maintenance costs would only increase your spreadsheet valves, but much of that could be speculative. Nice job presenting clearly.
Spot on! Two other things I might have added is the higher cost of the maintenance of a diesel truck. And because the diesel engine is heavier than a gas engine, the trucks have less available GVRW, as the weight of the engine is part of the GVRW of the vehicle. Thus requiring a possible upgrade in size of truck based on ones needs.
Well definitely helped lol.. I drive 35k a year in F150 at 21mpg, and kept looking at the 3.0 duramax claiming 28-30.. thank you for the breakdown of information
I drove a 93 ford diesel for 30 years and just changed the oil and filters. It was great. I then bought a 2017 f350 King Ranch that comes out to pull a trailer and otherwise stays in the garage. The power, and comfort still amazes me. I'll stick with my diesel for now. I think it will last the duration.
My first diesel vehicle was a 1971 220 D Mercedes. Diesel fuel cost was at least half that of gas. Moving forward to Ford diesels in 1984 1985 diesel fuel was a little more but still less than gas. Today my 15th + diesel truck. Have 2024 Chevy 3.0 turbo diesel. Gets over 30 mpg when not towing and from 12 to 15 mpg pulling 3700 lb trailer. Same 495 ft lbs of torque as V8 diesel. So I have many arguments to your opinions. Just love diesel. John
I'm with you. I have a 2024 Chevy LZO 3.0 diesel and you are correct, the mileage is incredible - and you still get maximum torque. Great for a daily driver / weekend worker. I previously had a RAM 3500 Cummins DRW - awesome machine and a gasser could never come close to it. No longer tow heavy because I got rid of the fifthwheel camper and bought an RV - with a Cummins diesel motor! Diesel is superior all around. Costs are immaterial. In my mind - a truck is not a truck unless it is powered by diesel. The United States missed the boat on small displacement diesel engines. as mainstream choice of powertrain. Europe got it right! Love diesel!
Great content, but your entire reasoning is the $10,000 upgrade for the diesel engine. As some have commented, the resell offsets that upfront cost. In addition, it wasn't always $10K, I paid under 8 for the upgrade to Diesel, and on a recent purchase, for a 1500 Silverado the Diesel upgrade is $1000. Also with the 1500, gas mileage goes to 30MPG or better on the freeway with 24 around town. It really changes the dynamic when you look at how the cost is going down. Lastly, some areas, diesel is cheaper than gas.
Nice work, sir. Have owned and continue to own gas-powered trucks. That said, I am also a diesel pickup aficionado, running several diesels over 30 years. I would observe that although costs and economics can be or are important, many people are willing to pay more for the additional performance of a modern turbo-diesel truck. Most vehicle purchases are not purely rational, but also emotional/feel good/want vs. need. 🤷🏻♂️😁. I call it "performance", you call it "premium experience"... two ways to say essentially the same thing. Agreed sir.
The owner of our local Ford dealer whom I’m friends with told me over 2 decades ago there is no circumstance where the consumer will save money by purchasing a diesel truck. You’re spot on in your analysis. The one caveat is the Hotshot scenario. Remember at 100k a year mileage the truck will have to be replaced every year or two for reliability purposes which will lower savings and resale will go down on an high mileage truck.
Thank you. That's a great point about the hotshot scenario. I didn't think about that 2-3 year upgrade cycle potentially. Another viewer commented that they hotshot with a gas truck, so that further validates your point there.
Well spoken and great data. I love my high mileage diesel, which I bought used and had to repair before using. Pulling with the diesel is hands down a better experience. Echoing some of the comments, maintenance is a LOT more $$$$. New diesels use that DEF crap, which the cost might be negligible? Thanks for the comparison!
Great video, you nailed it on the head. I currently own a cummins and im switching to a truck just like yours. Like you said though, it is an experience. That torque, exhaust brake, a night and day difference. Massive smile on the face. But boy do you pay for that experience. Maintenence costs, In the shop for emmisions issues, def, 2 head gaskets, new turbo, egr, transmission ive had enough. Im a weekend warrior and mainly city driving so the diesel has got to go. Thanks for all the time you put in 👍
Loved your video. I had one more perspective to support you. In the case of the "hotshot" driver towing 100k per year. After 5 years, that's 500k miles and both the engine and transmission will likely require major maintenance costs by then. My own experience also started out with the diesel rigs, mostly the Chevy Duramax's. I loved many of the good "experiences" you mentioned but not only did I pay the "premium" costs to purchase them, I was concerned there would be potential major costs if either the diesel engine or Allison transmission needed work. My vehicles have always been purchased used and so I was dealing with higher mileage vehicles. I too concluded the gas engine choices would be my cheaper option in the long run even while towing our RV trailer. Individual trips over the mountains and back costs more in fuel, but the peace of mind and overall costs have been cheaper for me now that we've switched back to gas. Thank you.
Its even worse than what you present. That extra 10K has additional opportunity cost. That $10K is tied up in the truck, so you can't invest it. If you put that $10K in a 10% growth stock, after 5 years you would have lost about another $6K from losing that investment opportunity. So the diesel engine cost is really a little over $16K more expensive over 5 years, when factoring loss of interest gains.
Good point. Though that $10,000 cost is actually higher. Sales tax, at the very least, and additional interest if financed. Could be closer to a $13,000 initial cost.
I have the same exact truck as yours. Searched on line for 9 months on AutoTrader and had it shipped to me in Montana. Super truck for pulling in the mountains.
Yes I am an exception - I have two Audi Q5s - my Diesel Audi has made me more than 150,000 over the 360,000 miles driven so far - My total expenses for maintenance and repairs have been less than $20K. the diesel costs me about $ 0.07 per mile - my gas Audi costs me $ 0.13 per mile - both cars cost me the same $ (both were a couple years old when purchased) Which is less expensive to own and operate - THE DIESEL. I had several diesel Suburbans that got 25 - 28 mpg - gas ones were on the 15 - 18 mpg. Could not get more than 250,000 miles with the gas engines and over 500,000 miles on every diesel....
There is one big factor you missed. The vehicles value when it's traded for the next one. Diesel cost a lot more new. The diesel is worth a lot more used though. So now rerun all the numbers but lose the 10k upgrade cost because it's recovered in the sale.
Thank you for bringing that up, and great point! I've heard the resale argument used by car dealerships as negotiating power, but I've struggled to see it firsthand when I've sold my previous diesel trucks. Maybe it's because I didn't keep them as long, but I ended up losing a proportional amount with the depreciation once I factored in that initial premium cost. Maybe a case by case basis there with longer ownership playing a role, especially pre DPF/modern era when diesels didn't have all the emissions issues longterm. Thank you again.
I just bought a 22 Duramax used with 30k miles a couple months ago and that is what I discovered as well in the used market. I searched for a few months for the truck I wanted and looked at diesel and gasser. In the end I noticed the trend that most of the trucks I looked at, in the 30-40k miles and less range, whether diesel or gas were very similar in price. The main difference was only the mileage, the gassers had anywhere from 10-20k and the diesels had 30-40k on them in the same price range. I ultimately ended up with the diesel because I found a good price with lower than average miles on it from what I had been seeing. Buying used definitely makes a difference on the 10k price difference he is referring to, from my personal experience.
I’m on my 3rd diesel dually in 25 years. In 1999 diesel was way Cheeper than gas. And the upgrade engine cost was 4K or under. But resale value has enabled me to get a new diesel. Overal in the last 25 years I have saved money but am just now getting close to the break even point. And will probably start going negative soon. However the hauling experience is going to be worth the difference.
Good Video. Several other considerations are, engine size, you can get a smaller diesel engine like the 3.0 GMC as compared to the big block gasers. Also need to look at the rear end gear ratios, as this will make difference. I think the break even point for the diesel is about 100K, but it all depends on your usage. Most people can’t justify the cost. It’s like 4 wheel drive, most can’t cost justify the additional cost until you get into a snow storm and you are 500 lies away ground home, then you will always get it. There is also the ‘“boys and their Toys” factor.
Great point. Thank you for your patience! Took me a while, but I finally got around to it. Here is the 5.3 vs 3.0 comparison: th-cam.com/video/1HzdIiPA3bY/w-d-xo.html
As someone who just went from a 1/2-ton which was unusually fuel efficient to a diesel 1-ton? I certainly agree. Figure in the DEF, issues with the DPF? Oil change costs? Higher Mechanics cost for diesel? Yeah, the gas 1-ton would have been cheaper. With the new 1-ton, if I keep up with the maintenance it will comfortably pull anything I am ever likely to want to tow and I just won't have the same kind of worries. A part of it is admittedly that as someone who grew up on a farm with diesel tractors all around - I really like the chuckle of a good-sized diesel engine. I'm happy with my choice of the diesel 1-ton and totally agree that it wasn't the cost-efficient choice.
Few things. The $10K diesel option is usually returned at trade-in time, so that's a wash. You missed the maintenance costs between the two, with diesel being much higher than gas. And, diesel gels in the cold winter requiring more attention and maintenance than gas (which doesn't freeze). Issues; okay, you can buy an extended warranty out to 100K miles to cover the drivetrain, but after that, you are on your own for any diesel repairs. And, with the way diesels are so choked with all of the emissions stuff on them, I'd say there's a really good chance of a major repair bill after 100K. I'm a Ford guy (my 2023 F150 with the 3.5L ecoboost and 10 speed transmission is a monster towing our 7,200 lb travel trailer), but look at the Godzilla motor and 10 speed transmission in the F250... massive power and ability to handle up to around 18K towing. I'll close by saying towing above 15K, the diesel starts winning, just because of performance... but, man oh man, under 15K, these new trucks with big gas motors and 10 speed transmissions are the way to go, I think. This is creating a dilemma for us deciding our next camper... we're actually looking at staying under 15K so we can get a gas truck instead of diesel. Good topic to discuss! I'd appreciate any feedback if I'm missing anything. Cheers! Pete in Arizona - KI7LIL
100% agree with your first statement regarding trade value. The Diesel retains that value at the time of trade or resale. I typically tow about a 20k gooseneck and have had diesel for the last 25 years. I will also agree with the emissions on the newer trucks, traded one in just for that reason once the extended warranty was up.
@@peterkunka2694 this is correct. Re: costs returned (partially) at trade. However, if financing it should also be noted that there are increased carrying costs not covered as well. Not to push anyone off, just trying to be as close to accurate as possible wrt to diesel/gas. Diesels do have their place. If one is towing 5-10x a year, I believe they are better with gas. Imo from a cost perspective.
@peterkunka2694 I just finished an extensive 5 month long search for my next truck. I looked at both new and used HD trucks. At least in my area used diesel’s absolutely do not bring anywhere close to what you pay for them up front. At best you might get 1/2 of that 10k back but it’s definitely not a wash. Again this is in my area.
When I was configuring and buying my F450, the fleet manager ran the numbers, and we determined that the break even point for my mix of towing and running loaded was 300,000 miles for the diesel. I bought the V10 which averages 7mpg towing a toy hauler at 18,000 pounds, or 12 mpg with about 1500 pounds in the bed. If I don’t need the load capacity I take a smaller vehicle, sometimes with a small trailer. The oil changes and fuel filters are considerably less expensive for the gas engine. My diesel Jeep averaged 29 mpg with 3 fuel stops in 1500 miles on a recent trip through the northwest. It gets 25mpg towing a 5x8 enclosed trailer. The gas Highlander V6 gets 19 mpg pulling the same trailer. My actual numbers agree with your findings. Both the Jeep rated 240hp and the Highlander rated 295hp have adequate power for passing and climbing grades.
You raise a great point. And it reminds me that fleet managers would know given they a have a fiduciary responsibility to deliver the most cost effective to their tax payers or employer. Their job is literally on the line based on how they run the numbers.
I live In PA and in my area diesel is .05 cheaper than regular 87 gas. If you run premium diesel is significantly cheaper at the moment. Add in the resale value and the piece of mind of effortless towing my fifth wheel, I didn’t think twice about trading my 2015 Cummins on a 2024 Cummins HO.
Bloomsburg Sheetz. Paid $3.25 for diesel tonight. 87 was $3.29 and premium was $3.69…..the last 6 months I have paid less for diesel than gas. First time in 10 years of owning a diesel.
@@one24mikethis sheetz is biodiesel up to 20% used cooking oil which i had been running all spring and summer and switched over to regular diesel now and I have been getting about 1mpg better so not much different but I also don't drive mind thru the winter so I don't want gelled fuel sitting there but did enjoy the savings all summer
Nice video. I too am a spreadsheet nerd. Haha. One thing that will affect the numbers is looking at trade in or difference in value at the five year mark. Some of that up front premium is going to come back in higher used value. It’s hard to factor into a spreadsheet since it’s not guaranteed inputs, especially when comparing new trucks but a set of injectors could be more $$$ than a new engine in the gas truck.
GREAT point. Yes, longer years typically = more mileage and certainly would see that over 10 years. The diesel gets diminished with the premium cost upfront, but I really think if you want that premium experience diesel is the way to go regardless. Otherwise the gas will likely be more affordable. Very much a personal decision based on your use.
I went through 3 gas powered trucks all three were small V-8 short bed 2 wheel drive. After my 1st truck I kept telling myself the engines were to small , the beds were 2 short and I was tired of getting stuck in places. I needed 4 wheel drive. When shopping the salesman would alway offer me a great deal on these trucks and that's why I bought them, then regretted it later. In 2000 I finally bought the truck I really wanted and needed. I purchased a 1997 F250, super cab, long bed 4X4, 7.3 liter power stroke diesel. The truck had about 80,000 miles on it. It's now 2024, I still have the truck, it has 276,000 miles on it. The transmission went out at 212,000 miles and it sat for 18 months before I could afford to replace it. I bought a new KIA Sportage when the transmission went out and because of the gas mileage and it was much easier to park in the city the KIA became my every day car. That took me a while to get used to. My truck also spends a lot of time idling. I have a small farm on the other side of the state (Washington) and my dog travels with me. When I'm out working on the place my dog is in the truck staying cool in the A/C so my truck may idle for the whole day when not being driven. I don't think a gas engine could take idling 8 hours a day in 90 and 100 degree heat and running the A/C. The gas engine would probably over heat it also just would not last in my opinion. My diesel pickup is old and does not pull the hills like these new trucks especially when towing and does not have all the new electronics but it still runs like a champ. I honestly believe it has lower maintenance costs also. I've replaced one water pump, 5 alternators, the wiring that runs inside the valve covers for the glow plugs and injectors and all the injectors and most of the flow plugs, the transmission, 4 batteries and a lot of tires and brakes. In a 27 year old truck that I've owned for 24 years I'd say that is pretty good especially considering some of the loads its hauled and pulled. Could a gas engine pickup truck do all that this long with as little maintenance...I don't think so. If you are going to keep your truck for a long time and work it...I think the diesel is the way to go. Will the new diesels do as well? Only time will tell. I also believe the regen systems on the new diesels will hurt their longevity and increase their maintenance costs.
Great points, but keep in mind that when you go sell it, the gas trucks are not as desirable (and depreciate more) than diesels. Most HD truck buyers want diesels, which is why used ones are a lot pricier than their gas counterparts. Again, great points. Thanks for doing the research to put this together. Cheers,
I have an '03 duramax with over 160, 000 mi I guess I made the right choice for the diesel option putting money back in my pocket and it hasn't cost me anything except regular maintenance and a couple sensors over its life and its still running strong in the injectors were done under warranty back in the day. But with that kind of savings you're showing in fuel that will pay for injectors and I'll still have money in my pocket good job on the stats.
I have a 2023 LZ0 diesel Chevy 1/2ton just came back from a trip to Tennessee I live in NY round trip was 2200 miles I was towing a 14 foot V-nose trailer with two touring Harleys with a lot of gear 5,000 pounds total I was averaging between 14 to 17.5 mpg used 5 boxes of blue platinum def 20.00 a box. My friend that went with us also has a 14 foot V nose with one Harley in it total for him was around 3200 pounds he was towing it with a Dodge truck 1/2 ton with a hemi he was averaging around 8 mpg spent quite a bit more money on gas than I did. I factor the def in also. So the advantages of a diesel it is a torque monster. It’s fun to drive but it is a pain in the ass to find diesel and you have to put def in when you’re hauling something heavy. It goes through it like water! So would I but another diesel NO! (Just my opinion)
It’s crazy how much more the lZ0 guzzles def vs lm2. I did a similar trip towing my viper across country 3k miles, similar weight as you and only had to fill up the tank twice.
@@gabe9158 the LZO has a second DEF injector to help with emissions and in theory a more reliable def system but it uses so much more when towing it’s kinda ridiculous. The extra power sounds nice though! How’s your mpg when not towing? My 22 trailboss gets 25-26.5 when going 75mph, more if I go slower. So far over the 40k trouble free miles I’ve average 22.3 mpg with just under 9k of that towing.
I did a similar spreadsheet about 10yrs ago, but based it on mileage, not time, and included the diesel premium. Mainly because all scheduled periodic maint is based on mileage. I calc'd fuel, oil and fuel filters, oil changes. Fuel mileage was unloaded, knowing the diesel would benefit when weighted down. Not calc'd was catastrophic breakdown of engine or trans. The breakover point was at about 140k miles, whether that is @5yrs or 20yrs of ownership. After that, diesel costs less to own.
I did a comparison between two 2021 F250 Lariats, one with diesel (no high output), the other with a 7.3 gas engine. The price difference with average miles was $6,000. I agree with your assessment on which truck makes more sense. If I were buying new, it would be an F250 with the 7.3 gas engine. New diesels have way too many issues with added emissions, failing fuel pumps, and expensive repairs.
A few factors, diesel w/ Def, cost of oil changes. I too have owned diesels my whole life. First gmc gas this year that 6.6 is awesome. Now I have only pulled 30k 2 times in this last 15k miles. My average weight is 21k pulling backhoe, or 18k with hay. Most of my miles are loaded. Very impressed with the gas engine by gm. Great vid but maintenence is part of the game in cost effective.
Cost of ownership in all of your examples has made the assumption that when you sell or depose of the vehicle they will net the same. I believe in almost all case the diesel will still have 60-70% of that initial cost difference in value (meaning if there was 10K difference at new there will be 6k difference at 5 yrs). The higher the mileage the more of that will be available on deposal. A diesel with 150k will be at least 7k more than the gasser. Loved the video. It helped me organized my points of why I prefer diesel also.
Great video. However, I would point out that the $10-$15k price difference is usually held in resale value. I just sold my 2019 F350 STV DRW Truck. I bought it for $58k and sold it after 5 years for $41k. It had just under 100k miles. The truck I had before was a F350 SRW gasser. I had it for 3 years. I paid $39k for it, and sold it for $17k. Maintenance was more on the diesel, but my gasser was in the shop more with warranty issues. There are 2 things that hold a resale value of a truck in my opinion....4WD and Diesel Engine. In the long run I do not think that I saved or lost money with a diesel truck. One other thing. On the farm there are still 7.3 fords with 400k miles that run like new. I have never gotten more then 280k on a vehicle that was gas. However, now I would never really own a daily driver that is more than 5 years old.
Exactly, I'm not dealing with all the emissions crap and regens and engine block heating in the winter and DEF, etc of a diesel for my 10K trailer. Total overkill.
Well, you left out an important point for diesel... RESALE! We're calling the $10,000 option an added "cost", but the reality is the diesel becomes a massive asset come resale. It's very common to see diesels, even used diesels with 100k+ miles, still selling for $5k-$10k above what you'd paid for similar mile used gas trucks, sometimes even more. With that, diesel starts to make more sense. For me, I just don't even consider the upgrade as a "cost", it's just something I get back at the end my ownership, like a refundable security deposit. Basically, as long I don't blow the engine up, I get my money back at the end of it. Also, there are other big benefits to diesels besides fuel savings and better resale. Diesels with exhaust brakes, particularly Cummins diesels and their strong exhaust brakes, will save you on brake pads and rotors. Over the life the vehicle, you could see thousands of dollars in savings just on brakes. This is especially true for people who do a lot of towing and/or stop and go driving. As someone who's towed a lot with gas and diesel, I can attest to that saving from exhaust brakes. Resale aside, the saving and security and confidence you get with an exhaust brake makes the diesel premium worth it. That said, I wouldn't encourage someone who doesn't really need a diesel to go out and get a diesel. There are other issues that comes with diesel ownership. The emissions stuff can be killer for people who don't use these trucks as intended. For those who'd buy diesel for no reason beyond just wanting one, they should think twice. It maybe a very expensive headache in the end.
Yes they do hold their value but cost of ownership is still higher on a diesel. That exhaust brake you bring up. It is achieved with a variable geometry turbo which all do fail. Have you priced out how much one of those turbos are? And then what if you happen to have a high pressure fuel pump fail and have to replace everything in your fuel system. That repair alone costs as much as the diesel engine option in the initial purchase of the truck. Emission control issues, another costly expense.
@@adventurercalvin Having owned many trucks, I'm fully aware of the cost when it comes to repairs. It's not cheap. However, that's not something long-term owners face as often as you'd be concerned with. Certainly not in my case. You know, my current 6.7L diesel has nearly 250k miles on it right now. It's fully stock, 100% original powertrain, turbo, injection system, and all emissions stuff like the DPF and EGR, it's all been there from the factory. No repairs done to any of it. Could that stuff fail soon? Sure, but who cares??? With 250k miles and the work I do with the truck, the truck doesn't owe me a thing anymore. It's already paid for itself several times over. At this point, the thing has become a cash saving cow. If the thing quits tomorrow, I couldn't be mad because it's way ahead financially. But it shows no sign of quitting. So, all it's doing is delivering piece of mind.
I hear you! Thank you for bringing that resale issue up. I completely forgot to mention that! Sometimes I wonder if the resale argument is more useful to car dealerships to help them justify lowballing gas trade-ins and limiting discounts on diesel MSRP? Certainly makes sense, but I wonder if we forget when we go to sell that diesel truck years later how much we spent on the diesel premium initially? Definitely a point of consideration though!
@@AkioWasRight my boss has a couple of diesels in a couple of gas trucks so one day I asked him what should I get a diesel or a gas he told me if you don't need a diesel don't get a diesel
on the new ones, not only are the oil change is more expensive. You also have the fuel filters, and the def. So unless you’re using it like a diesel needs to be used I agree completely with this guy.
That doesn’t account for maintenance, DEF, insurance, taxes or repairs. Many localities will tax diesel HD trucks as commercial trucks. My county does.
20 years ago they were cheaper to run and more reliable than a gas motor, and they still have that reputation despite it not being true for over a decade. Modern diesel are expensive to run, expensive to maintain, and expensive to fix.
@@dcl97 20k miles so far and no issues. My last gas HD Ram didn’t even make it off the lot before the issues started. Parts are not that much more. If you can’t afford the 10k for the diesel upgrade, then yeah you probably can’t afford to fix it. Everything was cheaper 20 years ago. I do my own maintenance and besides the initial cost of the motor, it’s not costing me more than a few hundred dollars to maintain over a gas. Diesel is cheaper or on par with gas for me.
@@SliderFury1 What isn't true about HD Diesel resale value being higher than HD Gas. If you look it up for yourself, you'll find any HD truck brand of same year and with simular miles will say it's true. The only exception would be if that brands Diesel engine had some negative history. I'm pretty sure some old FORD Diesels are selling for more money than NEW just because they lack current day DEF requirements 🙂
No arguing your data; makes perfect sense. My decision was on the 6.2L V8 OR the 3.0L Duramax. The minimax upcharge was about $4k in 2023 (arguable because the 6.2L was hard to find and dealers charged a PREMIUM for it over the 3.0). With the MPG variance on these engines (9 towing with the 6.2 and 16 with the 3.0), the "savings" delta becomes a was (mostly). Mostly, because as others have said: DEF, Oil (freaking DexosD must be made with Manatee oil). I've owned diesels since my 2001 7.3L Powerstroke, so I just prefer them; but you're right . . . from a finance perspective: no way.
The comments about diesel power are spot on. At the end of the day, there is really one big difference when it comes to power. Diesels make power effortlessly. If you love to hear your motor wrapped up to 4000 RPMs, then get a gas. If you want your engine to lumber along at 2000 RPMs (still walking away from the gas at 4000) then save the money and get a gas. An engine is a tool. I want the one that does the BEST job, no matter what it costs. As always, your mileage may vary, probably pun intended... 😂
I currently have a 2023 GMC 2500 Duramax. I dont daily it. I work from home and have a 2nd vehicle. In almost 2 years of ownership, i have put about 15K miles on it almost exclusively towing our 36ft TT or our 20 ft box trailer w/toys in it. Due to the pretty limited mileage that I use it, im not super exposed to the maintenance cost. Mostly went desiel for comfort while towing and ease of refueling with a trailer on. Not married to it though. Would be interested in trying a gasser one day.
You are going to stir up a hornet's nest with this one. Yes, IF you pull heavy, over 12 or 13 thousand pounds up the Rockies all the time, a Diesel will probably work the best for you, but all maintenance costs need to be figured in. Most people don't do that and will find a HD gas rig just fine. Now just sit back and watch the diesel owners start flying all around you.
What I see is if you're towing 10000+ lbs over flat country, get a truck with a gas engine. Mountains and long grades, get a diesel. One issue not mentioned is the service schedule interval is greater with a diesel than gas engine. The timer on the diesel is the same as a gas engine (5000 to 6000 miles). For a diesel, this is complete nonsense! The oils only need changing every 7500 miles at a minimum for severe duty and can go much longer (10,000+ miles) between changes for lighter duty. For many drivers, this means oil changes twice a year at the most. Diesels run cooler and the oil takes longer to deteriorate. That wasn't factored in. Remember, diesel fuel is a lubricant; gasoline is a solvent.
100% agree with you. If you are pulling everyday heavy loads (equipment) for work the diesel makes sense, but the occasional heavy pulling, gas is the way to go.
Great point. I sometimes wonder if the resale argument is overplayed perhaps? With the 10-14K paid as a premium on diesels, I wonder, does one truly get more than that same depreciated 10-14K in a resale compared to gas? Perhaps it depends on the generation of gas engine or diesel engine. I can definitely see how car dealerships use that argument to bid lower on gas trucks when you're looking to trade and then take less off new diesels when you're trying to negotiate.
I just traded a 2015 Cummins and got 30k with 99k miles on. Guy from work traded his gasser 2014 5k more miles other wise basically same truck, he got 23k. Dealer sold my old truck for 36k in 2 days. Should have held out for more. You certainly don’t make up the entire diff of the 10-12k on trades but they definitely hold the value better.
@@one24mikeI don’t think that counts as holding value better, if anything it would suggest that the gas held its value better. Yes you got more as a trade in but you also paid more for it when you bought it. Just using round numbers, if you paid $10k more than your friend for the diesel when new, you only got $7k more on your trade so his held value better. It probably doesn’t make much difference in the book value but technically his was 1 model year older than yours so it even held its value that much more.
@@AdventureRocks I believe it's the Engine life expentency before needing a rebuild that makes the argument for a better Resale Value. Also, I'm in a different Diesel Catorgory though... I've got the LZ0 3l Duramax in a 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 Denali Ultimate and my MPG not towing on the highway in 2wd has been as great as 38.7 mpg one-way for 71 miles. Our Diesel prices currently are @ 4.29 per gal in Southern California (Costco Top Tier Diesel). Now this isn't towing as I'm still waiting for my Grand Design 22bhe to be delivered. I'll update later. I've heard good and bad about this engine for towing and DEF consumption. I've also seen videos where they are towing 75mph and drinking DEF. However I don't plan on towing @ that speed. I know the BEST MPG is at 65mph and if I'm on vacation why rush.
I was looking at a comparison on values of 4 year old trucks. 7.3 gas vs 6.7 diesel. The diesel actually lost 4k more in value over 4 years then gas. I am sure if you were comparing to the old 6.2 gas the results might have been different.
I tow our Jayco North point 5th wheel with a Chevy DuraMax Diesel HD High Country. We go all over the country and pulls like a beast. Love the exhaust break in the mountains. Would never go back to gas. *You also did a major down size on your RV rig, that would be ok for your gas truck😉
One must factor in that money costs money. The extra 10K invested represents either money you have to pay finance costs on or (in the case of a cash buyer) money you could invest and achieve a return on. Plug a finance charge into your spreadsheet and diesel gets even harder to justify. As a business owner of 5 diesel trucks they are quite expensive to maintain as well (if you can get one out of a shop for under 1K consider yourself lucky). My last truck purchase was a gasser and while it’s a bit “doggy” while towing it’s become my favorite daily driver. Unloaded and unburdened by a trailer, the mileage is similar and the similar horsepower makes them just as peppy to drive around.
Just made the switch to a 2024 Sierra Denali 2500 HD Duramax 6.6. Still mapping out operational costs. Here in Detroit diesel is running +$0.40 over unleaded. But the V8 2500 HD requires premium; which right now is +$0.90 over diesel. In my case I bought used; 18k on the clock for several thousand under bluebook with a clean history. Cost analysis between V8 and diesel will vary significantly based on your area, purchase/engine premium price of the vehicle, mileage driven, etc. It comes down to your situation if a diesel makes sense to you. Focusing on only the HD diesels (6.0L +) and not the smaller ones; also the V8 Gas Equivalent of the HD Diesel...... If you tow/haul frequently, tow/haul heavy loads (+8000k lbs), travel hilly/steep terrain, operate a plow, or simply want to experience everything an HD rig can offer; diesel is the choice for you. Diesel engines can easily go 250k miles and the engine will typically outlast the body and interior. They tow beautifully even on grade. With exhaust braking you save wear on your brakes while traveling/towing downgrade. Generally speaking, MPG, especially while tow/hauling is better than the gas counterpart. Resale value is typically higher than the gas counterpart; absorbing some, if not all of the diesel upgrade cost on a new vehicle. The drawbacks to diesel.....There is more maintenance involved with diesels; DEF fluid, filter changes, oil cost than with gasoline. The availability of diesel may be limited in your area. In many areas the cost of diesel fuel is less than premium. But you will have to factor in maintenance costs. If you tow/haul infrequently, tow/haul moderate loads (-8000k), plan on using for light duty the majority of the time, travel less hilly/steep terrain, and don't plan on keeping the vehicle over 100k miles or 5-7 years then a gasoline V8 would be the better option for you. Gas engines go roughly 100k miles before showing issues or failure. If you plan on disposing of the vehicle around that mileage you won't benefit from the longevity of a diesel engine. This will save you money at purchase; be it new or used. As a side note; if you downgrade from a 1 ton / 3/4 ton to a half ton truck; you can get offroad and track equipped gas engines. Which is right for you? That depends on your situation and preference. For me the choice was clear. I wanted the maximum capability to tow a trailer. I wanted the maximum performance while towing or hauling. The fuel costs with maintenance factored in was a wash. And I plan on keeping my truck past 250k miles. Yea, it can be a pain in the a** to navigate tight parking lots but the 360 camera comes in clutch.
Bought the 2024 Chevy 6.6 gas motor 2500hd, getting 17mpg driving faster than the speed limit and 22mpg driving 62mph using cruise control. Tow rating is only 300# less than the DuraMax. I was going to get the diesel, but 20k price difference stopped me. I wanted the 2500hd as it's overbuilt for my needs. The truck sure gets lots of looks.
I’m towing a Grand Design Imagine 2500RL with a 2018 Toyota Tundra. I’m looking at GM 3/4 ton trucks. This is my dilemma, one month I’m thinking diesel & then the next I’m thinking gas. I keep going back & forth. Also it’s hard for me to get rid of my truck that’s never had a problem & go to something that might have problems. I’ve joined the different forums about gas & diesel problems. Seems like everything new has problems, no specific brand. Thanks for the video
The first time I towed my camper after getting a diesel I immediately felt dumb that I hadn’t towed with one previously. It just tows better and safer for me.
I tow about 5k miles year using my 08 V10 F250. Works fine for my needs without the worry of high repair bills of a diesel. Just put in gas and oil changes every 5k miles and it's good!
Great video - taking the analysis to the next step would be great. -Annual maintenance expense - expected major maintenance service cost within 5 years - Def fluid additional cost - for the finale how many years beyond 5 years until you reach break-even at 12k, 15k and 20k miles I suspect you need to drive at least 30k miles per year before diesel makes financial sense for 5 years of ownership. On the other hand , the new analysis may inform someone that you need to own your truck at least 10 years and drive 25k miles per year for example
I hear you, great point! And, thank you for the comment. Here's a more detailed video on the resale value for the big picture: th-cam.com/video/NBnG41H8qDo/w-d-xo.html
How can you say your losing money for the diesel engine? When you go to sell the trucks a diesel will bring 10k-15k more than a gas truck. The fuel savings alone and towing torque are worth it. In 5 years your gas truck is worth 25k a diesel will be worth 45-50k.
I reeeallly wish people would stop saying this. It's not true. You spend $10K more up front and you'll be LUCKY to get that back in this market. Do a little research. Diesels will fetch $7-$9K more in trade-in value on average. You do not magically make more money by selling your diesel truck, you simply get back all (or recently, more like just most of) the extra money you put down to get it. And then what if you have a loan and you're paying interest on that larger initial amount? And do you think people want modern emissions-choked diesel trucks out of warranty?
People are not going to be paying premiums in five or six years for broken emissions diesels. If anything, people may be dumping them because they can’t afford to fix them. Although to be fair, that will become more and more the issue with any modern vehicle. Too much expensive tech to go bad.
I hear you. Thank you for bringing that up. I wonder sometimes if that argument is overplayed in reality? When I've sold my diesel trucks in past they still depreciate about the same. Maybe they have sold quicker, so certainly that aspect. I can definitely see where a car dealership would use the resale argument to prevent us buyers from negotiating more $$ off a deal involving a gas trade-in and diesel purchase, right?
People are saying it because he included the full cost of the initial purchase of diesel. When you trade it even if you get 8k extra over a gas the extra cost is actually 2k not 10k…..I guess the bottom line is it’s your money and if you are worried about stuff like DEF and a fuel filter change every 15k you probably shouldn’t be spending what a gas cost to buy let alone a diesel. I use about 1 gallon of DEF per 1k miles driving. When the gauge reads 1/2 half I put a jug in and I cost $11.99 at Walmart for the name brand. Filters every 15k are $289 at my dealer. Oil changes are 15k or 7500 per manufacturer so again I don’t get these huge maintenance costs everyone is talking about.
@@one24mikethat makes no sense. Just because you get $10K back doesn't mean you didn't spend it in the first place. Are you saying that if you get the full extra cost of the diesel back on a trade it's like you didn't actually spend it in the ifirst place? You still need the extra $10K up front to begin with. By that logic, there should be no reason for you not to get the highest possible trim level because it will be worth more when you sell it. Like oh,i really just need an XLT, but this Lariat Ultimate Tremor is $10K more so I'll get $10K more back when i sell it! I don't follow. In other words, I dont see the whole resale value thing as an argument FOR a diesel over a gas. It's a wash. If you NEED a diesel, great, you'll eventually get the extra money back that you spent on it (maybe). But saying that's an ADVANTAGE doesn't track anyore than telling someone to buy a Platinum over an XL because they'll get more money for it on trade. And as far as the maintenance stuff goes, i think it's less about the routine stuff (which is really not bad, like you said) and more about when components break and/or wear out, they are more expensive to replace on diesels than gas on average. And then there's the emissions crap and various other inconveniences (diesels don't like short trips, need an engine block heater if you have very cold winters, etc). I just see ZERO reason to deal with all that unless you NEED to, i.e. your gas truck is struggling with your trailer based on its weight/size and where you're towing it.
Diesel also has a much higher maintenance charge. On the other hand, the average gas truck buyer will purchase a minimum of 2 trucks for every 1 truck a diesel buyer purchases. Gas truck owners typically like to upgrade once they get around 100k miles. Diesel owners typically start thinking that at around 250k miles with some holding on till 400k-500k. If you like upgrading every few years then cost isn't really an issue anyway. If you upgrade when high mileage starts affecting reliability then buying diesel will definitely pay for itself over the gas.
I hear you. I sometimes wonder if that argument is overplayed in reality? But, I can definitely see where a car dealership would use that argument to lowball a customer trading in a gas truck and then further limit the discount when upgrading to a new diesel. Thank you for bringing up that point though!
Great video. It doesnt matter what fuel mileage it gets the cost of DEF, fuel price as well as maintenace for fuel filters more oil capacity for oil changes, now factor in cost of repairs. diesels do tend to hold value at re sale compated to a gas significantly tho. I still think a Hybrid gas 3/4 or 1 ton will be the game changer. Gives you the comparible fuel mileage too a diesel, and added power while towing. Plus i like the idea of being -40C and my hybrid motor turns on and instantly warms up cab and gas motor prior to battery depletion. Your diesel "might" turn on that day. But it damn sure better be plugged in, high quality fuel or fuel additive as well as cycle the glow plugs.
I had a 2001 Silverado 2500HD with the 8.1 gas/6-speed manual; I loved it, especially with the Flowmaster exhaust. Then, for my 70th birthday, treated myself to a '23 Sierra 2500HD Denali diesel; I love it too. DEF is not a big deal, neither is the fuel filter. I think if you buy a new truck every 22 years, just get what you want and enjoy it. At the end of the day, don't sweat the small stuff...it doesn't matter. In my experience, the diesel resale value over the gasser on my old '01 would have recouped the initial cost of a diesel, had I done that.
Awesome video! Two other things that came to mind for me. What would be the difference in value of the two trucks at the end of 5 years. In other words the diesel truck cost more initially, but it's probably worth more at the end. Secondly I've never owned of diesel but I understand routine maintenance is considerably more expensive. Cost of oil changes for example.
I did a similar analysis back in the 80's before I bought a gas truck. I am currently wanting a HD AT4x 6.6 gasser but dealers only stock diesel. I have also heard the maintenance is more for diesel. Good choice for antenna and bed cover.
I've spent 12 grand on repairs for the 2015 duramax 3500 with the def and cp3 repairs alone and the truck has 139 thousand miles! the 2012 and newer diesels are not the same anymore , at least in the emission restrictive states
I would be curious to see what the 3 L baby Duramax cost saving to gas would be. I know it is not a heavy duty truck for towing, but not everyone needs a heavy duty truck. Great video.
Great point. I've heard so many positive things about the baby dmax. It may not be up for heavy towing, but it sure is an efficient engine and priced right to make the fuel savings worth it.
And this same analysis applies to EVs. I looked at a Model Y in 2022 and the cost was $60,000. I then looked at a Chevy Equinox which was similar in size and comfort and it was $32,000. When I did the break-even analysis I calculated I would have to drive 420,000 miles to recover the additional $28,000 initial cost. I live in the PA road salt zone and cars are lucky to see 200,000 miles here before they succumb to rust.
Excellent pros and cons. I switched in 2020 to all gas trucks. The saving is phenomenal and we still pull the same 15k skid steers and heavy equipment trailers. The power is not the same and you need to leave more room in between vehicles as I tell my guys cause no exhaust brake. The plus after 6 trucks in savings of not getting the diesel option it affords us another new 1 ton work truck. Our hot shot 2021 7.3 with 163k miles runs perfectly. My personal 7.3 with 90k also has been flawless. No more diesels for us. Hopefully GM will add some ponies and torque in 2026 to their gas motor in 2026. I need to replace 4 more trucks.
It’s always been a pretty straight forward thing. You pay considerably more for a truck with a diesel engine. The fuel savings don’t recoup that unless you are hauling heavy loads full time. Other than that, if you constantly drive with heavy loads up and down in altitude you need the torque of a diesel.
You are right, you won't save money but having the peace of mind that you can easily tow uphill with the truck not straining and get super braking power with the exhaust brake may be worth it. Also, you will recoup some of the diesel engine premium when you sell it or trade it. Look at any 5 plus year old truck and the diesel is worth several thousand more than the same gas truck.
Should consider an update video with maintenance costs/mile on engine. Makes an easy decision unless you're at high altitude with heavy loads or very heavy loads. What rear end gear does that GM have? Ford's 7.3 Godzilla port injected is a contender imo. I wish GM had kept the 8.1 liter
Thank you for the comment. 3.73 on all GMs (no option for other). I got a lot of questions about the maintenance, so recently added this video here: th-cam.com/video/SaM_0StXEYk/w-d-xo.html
I agree 100% 20yrs ago when I crunched the numbers and Deisel was less than gas the break even point of fuel cost was 100,000miles for the extra cost of the deisel engine. That’s not even looking at the cost of oil changes and maintenance.
I think it’s also important to consider the cost of DEF, which should be proportional to fuel consumption and easy enough to estimate. I’ve tracked every maintenance cost to my 2018 2500HD Duramax since new and am sitting at about 167k now. I’ve figured out that the cost of operation FOR ME will shake even at around 15mpg (depending on fuel cost disparity). I think a lot of people really want to hold onto the diesel resale thing, but that’s a wash in either direction…you don’t pay the premium up front, have to pay the interest, etc…not a factor for me. Pulling power…sure, if you really NEED it, will be better with a diesel.
For those interested in learning more about the diesel resale argument, please see this video here:
th-cam.com/video/NBnG41H8qDo/w-d-xo.html
There is no better video that describes the pro/cons of diesel vs gas. As the owner of three Duramax diesels and now the owner of the same truck as yours, I agree with everything you have pointed out. Vehicles are like ice cream. There are no wrong flavors, the one you like better is the right one for you.
Unless you're a diesel fanboy, then your 400+ HP/Torque one ton gasser that has numbers which top diesels from less than 10 years ago couldn't tow a radio flyer up a 1% grade 😂
When you have a 15,000 loaded trailer then yes diesel is a must.
Great point. Thank you.
@@lazyj7860except you pay that when you buy it 🤔. It’s a wash.
Good points throughout the video. One thing you did not include, though, is maintenance costs. Diesels generally have higher maintenance costs than gas trucks. With the turbo and emissions systems in diesels, be prepared to spend more if the need service.
I have a gas truck I drive every day, mostly short commutes (not good for diesels). I know people that have $100 diesel trucks that spend most of the year sitting in the garage. But then again, they are getting that "premium experience" you mentioned! 😊
Don't forget the diesel fuel filter changes and the extra expensive oil changes. It all adds up.
Gas is cheaper if you rarely tow anything
and the DEF you need to buy.
Diesel fuel filters are cheap. Don't replace them at dealership
@@Tallnerdyguy I replace my GM fuel filter for $32
Add DEF
Great video. I have been saying this for 12 years now as i've personally owned 2 different gas Ram 2500s. First was a 12 Ram 2500 with the 5.7 Hemi and sold it with 203k miles on it and now own a 23 Ram 2500 with the 6.4 Hemi. I love it and it tows my Jeep beautifully.
Very few people buy a diesel truck for fuel economy. We all buy them for the convenience, power, torque, increased peace of mind and towing capacity. I went from a ram 2500 diesel to an F150 5.0 gas. I made sure it was set up with everything I needed to tow my Imagine camper and Malibu wakeboard boat. If I had the choice to make that decision again I would have stuck with the Ram diesel. The power, the convenience and the towing capacity is something I desire to get back to at a future date. I’m thinking an older ram 2500 as a second vehicle non-daily driver because I tow less than 5000 miles per year.
I love the breakdown you did. Thanks for sharing!
The REAL advantages to diesel are:
Grades: Less stress on the powertrain/transmission when tackling large, long uphill runs.
Elevation: The turbos make it almost a non-factor, whereas gas engines will gave to work quite a bit harder and won't provide as much performance.
Exhaust Braking: Going down grades, this will be a big help, especially with heavier trailers (13K+), and will put less stress on your braking system (although the engine breaking on modern gassers has gotten pretty good).
Refueling: This is actually the big one for most people that they often don't even think about. Lot more accessibility for diesel pumps that will fit your setup and you don't have to fuss with, well, all the other drivers going to the gas pumps.
With all that said, I still went with a gasser (Ford 7.3). I'm towing less than 12K less than 10 time a year and won't be taking any long trips out west and/or up into the mountains until after I retire (no time). Can't stand all the emissions crap on modern diesels and use my truck as an almost-daily driver so gas made the most sense for me.
Great points! Thank you for this!
You kidding about the pump? Lot of gas stations don’t offer the green pump. Also basically all the 1/2 ton gas engines now are turbos with 500+ torque.
Bottom line is get what you like. I hate the smell and sounds and harsh riding unloaded of the kerosene Mobil ESPECIALLY with all the EPA junk on it. If you tow all the time it would make sense.
How do you like the 7.3? I’m really entertaining grabbing one in the next few months.
You are absolutely correct on the pain and maintenance costs of a diesel due to the emissions.
I did notice when in the mountains every one was driving diesel trucks.
I've had a Ford 6.7 powerstroke for nearly 12 years until the engine blew up at 102k miles. However, during that time, I've spent more money maintaining it than I expected. An oil change for example, 13 quarts for the diesel vs 8 for the 6.6L gas every 5k miles adds to the cost. Buying DEF all the time, Emission system sensor failures and replacements, clogged EGR repair, and finally a catastrophic engine failure with a broken exhaust valve where the only option to fix it was to replace the engine for $21k. There is a price to pay for owning one and it goes up the longer you own it.
I hear you, very true.
You took the words right out of my mouth. Before i could type my 2cents i saw your post. Agree 100%
Well I've had numerous ram diesel trucks well past 100k without any of those problems. A diesel with catastrophic failure at barely 100k miles is only a norm with powerstrokes. I'm not writing this statement to ruffle feathers, but it's been true in my experience.
Wow...only 102 miles? POS...
The 6.7 powerstroke is a disaster too. Better off with gas 5.0 coyote
This is applicable for HD trucks. But I switched from gas to diesel in the half ton segment. Diesel in my case just made much more sense. I tow and the GM 5.3L is just too anemic. That's why I upgraded to a 6.2L Silverado. When I bought that truck the 3.0L was in its first year of service, so I decided to pass on it.But when I was looking to upgrade in to a new truck earlier this year I decided on the 3.0L Duramax for several reasons. The new LZ0 was much more powerful than the first gen LM2. The 3.0L also has a very good record of reliability. The 3.0L was a $795 option whereas the 6.2L was a $2195 option. Diesel in my area is typically cheaper than even 87 octane gas and for the 6.2L it's recommended that you use premium gas, which I always did. So fuel is significantly cheaper for the diesel. The fuel filter is a 30,000 mile service at a cost of about $30. Other than that, maintenance is no different than the 6.2L. I had the max trailering package in both trucks, so I have a 3.73 axle now instead of a 3.42. But the fuel economy is amazing with the diesel. Driving my new truck home to Alaska from Idaho I was getting in the 30s. My last fill up before getting home I got 34.1 mpg over a 579.9 mile drive. Towing I was getting 14 mpg. With the 6.2L I would get 8 or 9 mpg. For me the diesel was a no-brainer.
Have you looked at the long term maintenance costs on that engine? Wait until you have to change a timing belt.
Great point. I don't have any firsthand experience, but I've heard that 3.0L gets some amazing fuel economy.
I plan on going with the 3.0l for this same reason! It’s really no comparison for the 1/2 ton vs gas.
Great video. And your comment is I think the best one here. For this GM half ton the baby Duramax would have been a more apples to apples comparison.
@@adventurercalvin The 3.0 uses a chain for timing. It does however use a belt for the oil pump.
I agree 100% on the premium experience. I have had my first diesel a 2020 silverado 1500 high country diesel for 2 years now. I have had many gas trucks before not even taking into account mpgs or any extra costs the driving experience with the diesel is much favorable for me at least. Towing or not the diesel torque band and the I6 diesel in the 1500 is so so smooth, it all makes for great every day driving. All ways liked my gasser but it's diesel going forward for me.
I don't have much experience with newer diesels, but a big reason we used to buy them is that the engine life span of diesel was nearly twice that of a gasser. I don't get a new truck every 5 years, I keep them till they're no longer reliable which is usually closer to 25 years.
Replacing a gas engine is relatively cheap compared to diesel repairs.
Modern Diesel engines don't last any longer than a Gas Engine
Such a timely video! We fulltimed around the United States for 6 years pulling a 40' - 14,000# fifth wheel, with a Ram 3500 cummings diesel. We put over 100,000 miles plus on the fifth wheel, so feeling extremely confident the diesel upgrade more that paid for itself. However now we have downsized our fifth wheel to a 29' - 8,000# which we will pull around very little, we have been talking gasser!!
Thank you for the comment. I hope your plans all go smoothly!
Thanks for this video. Been on the fence about selling my Cummins and getting a Gasser. Only pull camper 10 times a year so I agree with every point you made
Thank you for the comment!
Thanks for this video. It's very helpful for people like me who want to be wealthier. A penny saved is a penny earned. Impressing others is fun, but costs money.
You really need to add maintenance costs into this equation, gas will shine even more
With DYI maintenance, diesels can actually be a bit cheaper on regular service items.
In bulk, you can buy diesel engine oil and filters for about the same as gas oil and filters. For example, 2 gallons of Mobil1 and a gas engine oil filter will run you about $60-$70. This is more or less what I pay for a filter and 3 gallons of Rotella in bulk. Even just on Amazon, 3 gallons of Rotella are only slightly more than Mobil1 for gas.
Emissions servicing is a point against diesels, but then there or no tune ups or GDI to contend with. This can somewhat balance out.
For the biggest point for diesel, you can save massively on brakes with diesels because of exhaust brakes. For me, brakes and rotors last 3-5x as long. Over the life of the truck, you will save thousands just on brakes. Even if you pay slightly more for other maintenance items, you will get that money back on the braking end of things purely because of an exhaust brake.
On the negative side for diesel, repairs will be much more. No way to make light of that. If you have an EGR go out, a turbo failure, or an HPFP grenade, be prepared to pay big time. These are not certain to be issues for everyone, but it can be issues for some. So, you got to be up on maintenance and always have money ready for when something does happen.
Great point. Those annual duel fuel filters on the Cummins add up $$, even when DIY. Plus the DEF and DPF issues.
Your numbers are about spot on.I had a 2022 ho Cummins and I have a 2022 7.3 gas . With in a fraction of Pennie’s per mile to drive either truck….i traded the ram in last week and bought a power stroke only to own the diesel…..
Before I got my first diesel truck, I did the same thing you did with a spreadsheet to show how many miles I would have to drive to break even. I put about 20K a year on mine, so I'll break even a little bit sooner. I think the newer gasser trucks are more than capable to tow campers/loads up to about 14K as a 5th wheel and more as a conventional trailer. But, when you start getting above the 14K as a 5th wheel, or more weight over all, that's where the diesel truck will shine. And yes, your premium benefits are the ones that helped push me into a diesel truck...esp the truck lanes and the exhaust brake. Great video with lots of great and accurate info for all of us.
Thank you. Great point! That weight number can really sway the difference when it comes to the gas vs diesel experience. 14-15K range vs 6-10K range would make a considerable difference to me in how it handles with the RPM, torque, etc.
Excellent video, and it’s the truth.! Using it daily to haul like a big rig is only way to come out better.!
Thank you for watching, and thank you for the comment.
Great content. Your viewership comments are so valuable.
For the lack of use of my gasser, and the occasional use for local towing of 8,000 lbs. Of RV, gas is the answer. To each their own.
Agree that DEF and maintenance costs would only increase your spreadsheet valves, but much of that could be speculative.
Nice job presenting clearly.
Thank you, appreciate that! Very true on the maintenance and def.
Spot on! Two other things I might have added is the higher cost of the maintenance of a diesel truck. And because the diesel engine is heavier than a gas engine, the trucks have less available GVRW, as the weight of the engine is part of the GVRW of the vehicle. Thus requiring a possible upgrade in size of truck based on ones needs.
Great point, thanks for commenting.
Well definitely helped lol.. I drive 35k a year in F150 at 21mpg, and kept looking at the 3.0 duramax claiming 28-30.. thank you for the breakdown of information
I drove a 93 ford diesel for 30 years and just changed the oil and filters. It was great. I then bought a 2017 f350 King Ranch that comes out to pull a trailer and otherwise stays in the garage. The power, and comfort still amazes me. I'll stick with my diesel for now. I think it will last the duration.
My first diesel vehicle was a 1971 220 D Mercedes. Diesel fuel cost was at least half that of gas. Moving forward to Ford diesels in 1984 1985 diesel fuel was a little more but still less than gas. Today my 15th + diesel truck. Have 2024 Chevy 3.0 turbo diesel. Gets over 30 mpg when not towing and from 12 to 15 mpg pulling 3700 lb trailer. Same 495 ft lbs of torque as V8 diesel. So I have many arguments to your opinions. Just love diesel. John
I'm with you. I have a 2024 Chevy LZO 3.0 diesel and you are correct, the mileage is incredible - and you still get maximum torque. Great for a daily driver / weekend worker. I previously had a RAM 3500 Cummins DRW - awesome machine and a gasser could never come close to it. No longer tow heavy because I got rid of the fifthwheel camper and bought an RV - with a Cummins diesel motor! Diesel is superior all around. Costs are immaterial. In my mind - a truck is not a truck unless it is powered by diesel. The United States missed the boat on small displacement diesel engines. as mainstream choice of powertrain. Europe got it right! Love diesel!
Great content, but your entire reasoning is the $10,000 upgrade for the diesel engine. As some have commented, the resell offsets that upfront cost. In addition, it wasn't always $10K, I paid under 8 for the upgrade to Diesel, and on a recent purchase, for a 1500 Silverado the Diesel upgrade is $1000. Also with the 1500, gas mileage goes to 30MPG or better on the freeway with 24 around town. It really changes the dynamic when you look at how the cost is going down. Lastly, some areas, diesel is cheaper than gas.
Great point. Thank you for comment. I explain the resale argument in more detail here:
th-cam.com/video/NBnG41H8qDo/w-d-xo.html
Nice work, sir. Have owned and continue to own gas-powered trucks. That said, I am also a diesel pickup aficionado, running several diesels over 30 years.
I would observe that although costs and economics can be or are important, many people are willing to pay more for the additional performance of a modern turbo-diesel truck.
Most vehicle purchases are not purely rational, but also emotional/feel good/want vs. need. 🤷🏻♂️😁.
I call it "performance", you call it "premium experience"... two ways to say essentially the same thing. Agreed sir.
Thank you, great points
I bought this exact truck because of your videos. Took a long time to find the one. Thanks for the content!
Same. Took 9 months.
Thank you! I think this might be my all-time favorite truck overall I've ever owned.
The owner of our local Ford dealer whom I’m friends with told me over 2 decades ago there is no circumstance where the consumer will save money by purchasing a diesel truck. You’re spot on in your analysis. The one caveat is the Hotshot scenario. Remember at 100k a year mileage the truck will have to be replaced every year or two for reliability purposes which will lower savings and resale will go down on an high mileage truck.
Thank you. That's a great point about the hotshot scenario. I didn't think about that 2-3 year upgrade cycle potentially. Another viewer commented that they hotshot with a gas truck, so that further validates your point there.
Or sometime that tows at least a week or more every month
Well spoken and great data. I love my high mileage diesel, which I bought used and had to repair before using. Pulling with the diesel is hands down a better experience. Echoing some of the comments, maintenance is a LOT more $$$$. New diesels use that DEF crap, which the cost might be negligible?
Thanks for the comparison!
Great video, you nailed it on the head. I currently own a cummins and im switching to a truck just like yours. Like you said though, it is an experience. That torque, exhaust brake, a night and day difference. Massive smile on the face. But boy do you pay for that experience. Maintenence costs, In the shop for emmisions issues, def, 2 head gaskets, new turbo, egr, transmission ive had enough. Im a weekend warrior and mainly city driving so the diesel has got to go. Thanks for all the time you put in 👍
Thank you. Well said!
Loved your video. I had one more perspective to support you. In the case of the "hotshot" driver towing 100k per year. After 5 years, that's 500k miles and both the engine and transmission will likely require major maintenance costs by then. My own experience also started out with the diesel rigs, mostly the Chevy Duramax's. I loved many of the good "experiences" you mentioned but not only did I pay the "premium" costs to purchase them, I was concerned there would be potential major costs if either the diesel engine or Allison transmission needed work. My vehicles have always been purchased used and so I was dealing with higher mileage vehicles. I too concluded the gas engine choices would be my cheaper option in the long run even while towing our RV trailer. Individual trips over the mountains and back costs more in fuel, but the peace of mind and overall costs have been cheaper for me now that we've switched back to gas. Thank you.
Great points, thank you
Its even worse than what you present. That extra 10K has additional opportunity cost. That $10K is tied up in the truck, so you can't invest it. If you put that $10K in a 10% growth stock, after 5 years you would have lost about another $6K from losing that investment opportunity. So the diesel engine cost is really a little over $16K more expensive over 5 years, when factoring loss of interest gains.
Good point. Though that $10,000 cost is actually higher. Sales tax, at the very least, and additional interest if financed. Could be closer to a $13,000 initial cost.
Interesting point.
Great points, well said. I didn't even think about that.
Great video I’ve been on the fence between diesel and gas so this has helped me tremendously. Thanks!
Thank you for the comment. And thanks for watching.
I have the same exact truck as yours. Searched on line for 9 months on AutoTrader and had it shipped to me in Montana. Super truck for pulling in the mountains.
Very nice! I'm really enjoying mine.
Yes I am an exception - I have two Audi Q5s - my Diesel Audi has made me more than 150,000 over the 360,000 miles driven so far - My total expenses for maintenance and repairs have been less than $20K. the diesel costs me about $ 0.07 per mile - my gas Audi costs me $ 0.13 per mile - both cars cost me the same $ (both were a couple years old when purchased) Which is less expensive to own and operate - THE DIESEL. I had several diesel Suburbans that got 25 - 28 mpg - gas ones were on the 15 - 18 mpg. Could not get more than 250,000 miles with the gas engines and over 500,000 miles on every diesel....
There is one big factor you missed. The vehicles value when it's traded for the next one. Diesel cost a lot more new. The diesel is worth a lot more used though. So now rerun all the numbers but lose the 10k upgrade cost because it's recovered in the sale.
Thank you for bringing that up, and great point! I've heard the resale argument used by car dealerships as negotiating power, but I've struggled to see it firsthand when I've sold my previous diesel trucks. Maybe it's because I didn't keep them as long, but I ended up losing a proportional amount with the depreciation once I factored in that initial premium cost. Maybe a case by case basis there with longer ownership playing a role, especially pre DPF/modern era when diesels didn't have all the emissions issues longterm. Thank you again.
I just bought a 22 Duramax used with 30k miles a couple months ago and that is what I discovered as well in the used market. I searched for a few months for the truck I wanted and looked at diesel and gasser. In the end I noticed the trend that most of the trucks I looked at, in the 30-40k miles and less range, whether diesel or gas were very similar in price. The main difference was only the mileage, the gassers had anywhere from 10-20k and the diesels had 30-40k on them in the same price range. I ultimately ended up with the diesel because I found a good price with lower than average miles on it from what I had been seeing.
Buying used definitely makes a difference on the 10k price difference he is referring to, from my personal experience.
@@joshuajohnson7736completely agree. Buy used and the diesel is a much better option.
I’m on my 3rd diesel dually in 25 years. In 1999 diesel was way Cheeper than gas. And the upgrade engine cost was 4K or under. But resale value has enabled me to get a new diesel. Overal in the last 25 years I have saved money but am just now getting close to the break even point. And will probably start going negative soon. However the hauling experience is going to be worth the difference.
If you own a diesel,it is more of a ten year vehicle.A torque machine.
Good Video. Several other considerations are, engine size, you can get a smaller diesel engine like the 3.0 GMC as compared to the big block gasers. Also need to look at the rear end gear ratios, as this will make difference. I think the break even point for the diesel is about 100K, but it all depends on your usage. Most people can’t justify the cost. It’s like 4 wheel drive, most can’t cost justify the additional cost until you get into a snow storm and you are 500 lies away ground home, then you will always get it. There is also the ‘“boys and their Toys” factor.
Great point. Thank you for your patience! Took me a while, but I finally got around to it. Here is the 5.3 vs 3.0 comparison:
th-cam.com/video/1HzdIiPA3bY/w-d-xo.html
The cost of maintenance is a huge factor that would be a even larger cost to the equation of Gas vs. Diesel.
As someone who just went from a 1/2-ton which was unusually fuel efficient to a diesel 1-ton? I certainly agree. Figure in the DEF, issues with the DPF? Oil change costs? Higher Mechanics cost for diesel? Yeah, the gas 1-ton would have been cheaper.
With the new 1-ton, if I keep up with the maintenance it will comfortably pull anything I am ever likely to want to tow and I just won't have the same kind of worries. A part of it is admittedly that as someone who grew up on a farm with diesel tractors all around - I really like the chuckle of a good-sized diesel engine.
I'm happy with my choice of the diesel 1-ton and totally agree that it wasn't the cost-efficient choice.
Great point. Thank you for the comment.
Few things. The $10K diesel option is usually returned at trade-in time, so that's a wash. You missed the maintenance costs between the two, with diesel being much higher than gas. And, diesel gels in the cold winter requiring more attention and maintenance than gas (which doesn't freeze). Issues; okay, you can buy an extended warranty out to 100K miles to cover the drivetrain, but after that, you are on your own for any diesel repairs. And, with the way diesels are so choked with all of the emissions stuff on them, I'd say there's a really good chance of a major repair bill after 100K. I'm a Ford guy (my 2023 F150 with the 3.5L ecoboost and 10 speed transmission is a monster towing our 7,200 lb travel trailer), but look at the Godzilla motor and 10 speed transmission in the F250... massive power and ability to handle up to around 18K towing. I'll close by saying towing above 15K, the diesel starts winning, just because of performance... but, man oh man, under 15K, these new trucks with big gas motors and 10 speed transmissions are the way to go, I think. This is creating a dilemma for us deciding our next camper... we're actually looking at staying under 15K so we can get a gas truck instead of diesel. Good topic to discuss! I'd appreciate any feedback if I'm missing anything. Cheers! Pete in Arizona - KI7LIL
Diesel for GM come with 100k 5 year warranty. No extended needed to buy. Does not change your math much but just wanted to add this clarification.
Great points! Thank you for adding this!
100% agree with your first statement regarding trade value. The Diesel retains that value at the time of trade or resale. I typically tow about a 20k gooseneck and have had diesel for the last 25 years. I will also agree with the emissions on the newer trucks, traded one in just for that reason once the extended warranty was up.
@@peterkunka2694 this is correct. Re: costs returned (partially) at trade. However, if financing it should also be noted that there are increased carrying costs not covered as well. Not to push anyone off, just trying to be as close to accurate as possible wrt to diesel/gas. Diesels do have their place. If one is towing 5-10x a year, I believe they are better with gas. Imo from a cost perspective.
@peterkunka2694 I just finished an extensive 5 month long search for my next truck. I looked at both new and used HD trucks. At least in my area used diesel’s absolutely do not bring anywhere close to what you pay for them up front. At best you might get 1/2 of that 10k back but it’s definitely not a wash. Again this is in my area.
When I was configuring and buying my F450, the fleet manager ran the numbers, and we determined that the break even point for my mix of towing and running loaded was 300,000 miles for the diesel. I bought the V10 which averages 7mpg towing a toy hauler at 18,000 pounds, or 12 mpg with about 1500 pounds in the bed. If I don’t need the load capacity I take a smaller vehicle, sometimes with a small trailer. The oil changes and fuel filters are considerably less expensive for the gas engine. My diesel Jeep averaged 29 mpg with 3 fuel stops in 1500 miles on a recent trip through the northwest. It gets 25mpg towing a 5x8 enclosed trailer. The gas Highlander V6 gets 19 mpg pulling the same trailer. My actual numbers agree with your findings. Both the Jeep rated 240hp and the Highlander rated 295hp have adequate power for passing and climbing grades.
You raise a great point. And it reminds me that fleet managers would know given they a have a fiduciary responsibility to deliver the most cost effective to their tax payers or employer. Their job is literally on the line based on how they run the numbers.
I live In PA and in my area diesel is .05 cheaper than regular 87 gas. If you run premium diesel is significantly cheaper at the moment. Add in the resale value and the piece of mind of effortless towing my fifth wheel, I didn’t think twice about trading my 2015 Cummins on a 2024 Cummins HO.
Should have said premium gas, then diesel is significantly cheaper
Where in PA exactly? Cause I'm in central PA and I have never seen diesel cheaper than premium. It's always $0.70 - $1.10 more than regular.
Bloomsburg Sheetz. Paid $3.25 for diesel tonight. 87 was $3.29 and premium was $3.69…..the last 6 months I have paid less for diesel than gas. First time in 10 years of owning a diesel.
Great point. The fuel price can definitely change the outcome. Nothing like the torque on a diesel engine. Cummins HO is a beast of beasts.
@@one24mikethis sheetz is biodiesel up to 20% used cooking oil which i had been running all spring and summer and switched over to regular diesel now and I have been getting about 1mpg better so not much different but I also don't drive mind thru the winter so I don't want gelled fuel sitting there but did enjoy the savings all summer
Nice video. I too am a spreadsheet nerd. Haha. One thing that will affect the numbers is looking at trade in or difference in value at the five year mark. Some of that up front premium is going to come back in higher used value.
It’s hard to factor into a spreadsheet since it’s not guaranteed inputs, especially when comparing new trucks but a set of injectors could be more $$$ than a new engine in the gas truck.
Great points!
Honest question, who keeps vehicles for five years? I keep mine for at least 10. Wouldn’t your savings increase the longer you keep the vehicle?
GREAT point. Yes, longer years typically = more mileage and certainly would see that over 10 years. The diesel gets diminished with the premium cost upfront, but I really think if you want that premium experience diesel is the way to go regardless. Otherwise the gas will likely be more affordable. Very much a personal decision based on your use.
I went through 3 gas powered trucks all three were small V-8 short bed 2 wheel drive. After my 1st truck I kept telling myself the engines were to small , the beds were 2 short and I was tired of getting stuck in places. I needed 4 wheel drive. When shopping the salesman would alway offer me a great deal on these trucks and that's why I bought them, then regretted it later. In 2000 I finally bought the truck I really wanted and needed. I purchased a 1997 F250, super cab, long bed 4X4, 7.3 liter power stroke diesel. The truck had about 80,000 miles on it. It's now 2024, I still have the truck, it has 276,000 miles on it. The transmission went out at 212,000 miles and it sat for 18 months before I could afford to replace it. I bought a new KIA Sportage when the transmission went out and because of the gas mileage and it was much easier to park in the city the KIA became my every day car. That took me a while to get used to. My truck also spends a lot of time idling. I have a small farm on the other side of the state (Washington) and my dog travels with me. When I'm out working on the place my dog is in the truck staying cool in the A/C so my truck may idle for the whole day when not being driven. I don't think a gas engine could take idling 8 hours a day in 90 and 100 degree heat and running the A/C. The gas engine would probably over heat it also just would not last in my opinion. My diesel pickup is old and does not pull the hills like these new trucks especially when towing and does not have all the new electronics but it still runs like a champ.
I honestly believe it has lower maintenance costs also. I've replaced one water pump, 5 alternators, the wiring that runs inside the valve covers for the glow plugs and injectors and all the injectors and most of the flow plugs, the transmission, 4 batteries and a lot of tires and brakes. In a 27 year old truck that I've owned for 24 years I'd say that is pretty good especially considering some of the loads its hauled and pulled. Could a gas engine pickup truck do all that this long with as little maintenance...I don't think so. If you are going to keep your truck for a long time and work it...I think the diesel is the way to go. Will the new diesels do as well? Only time will tell. I also believe the regen systems on the new diesels will hurt their longevity and increase their maintenance costs.
Great points, but keep in mind that when you go sell it, the gas trucks are not as desirable (and depreciate more) than diesels. Most HD truck buyers want diesels, which is why used ones are a lot pricier than their gas counterparts.
Again, great points. Thanks for doing the research to put this together.
Cheers,
Thank you! Great point.
I have an '03 duramax with over 160, 000 mi I guess I made the right choice for the diesel option putting money back in my pocket and it hasn't cost me anything except regular maintenance and a couple sensors over its life and its still running strong in the injectors were done under warranty back in the day. But with that kind of savings you're showing in fuel that will pay for injectors and I'll still have money in my pocket good job on the stats.
I have a 2023 LZ0 diesel Chevy 1/2ton just came back from a trip to Tennessee I live in NY round trip was 2200 miles I was towing a 14 foot V-nose trailer with two touring Harleys with a lot of gear 5,000 pounds total I was averaging between 14 to 17.5 mpg used 5 boxes of blue platinum def 20.00 a box. My friend that went with us also has a 14 foot V nose with one Harley in it total for him was around 3200 pounds he was towing it with a Dodge truck 1/2 ton with a hemi he was averaging around 8 mpg spent quite a bit more money on gas than I did. I factor the def in also. So the advantages of a diesel it is a torque monster. It’s fun to drive but it is a pain in the ass to find diesel and you have to put def in when you’re hauling something heavy. It goes through it like water! So would I but another diesel NO! (Just my opinion)
It’s crazy how much more the lZ0 guzzles def vs lm2. I did a similar trip towing my viper across country 3k miles, similar weight as you and only had to fill up the tank twice.
@@jemery3Thats a big difference!
Very true. That torque is just an absolute delight especially when towing.
@@gabe9158 the LZO has a second DEF injector to help with emissions and in theory a more reliable def system but it uses so much more when towing it’s kinda ridiculous. The extra power sounds nice though! How’s your mpg when not towing? My 22 trailboss gets 25-26.5 when going 75mph, more if I go slower. So far over the 40k trouble free miles I’ve average 22.3 mpg with just under 9k of that towing.
My mpg is about the same as yours when not towing! I didn’t realize they put another Def injector in! it all makes sense now
I did a similar spreadsheet about 10yrs ago, but based it on mileage, not time, and included the diesel premium. Mainly because all scheduled periodic maint is based on mileage. I calc'd fuel, oil and fuel filters, oil changes. Fuel mileage was unloaded, knowing the diesel would benefit when weighted down. Not calc'd was catastrophic breakdown of engine or trans. The breakover point was at about 140k miles, whether that is @5yrs or 20yrs of ownership. After that, diesel costs less to own.
I did a comparison between two 2021 F250 Lariats, one with diesel (no high output), the other with a 7.3 gas engine. The price difference with average miles was $6,000.
I agree with your assessment on which truck makes more sense. If I were buying new, it would be an F250 with the 7.3 gas engine. New diesels have way too many issues with added emissions, failing fuel pumps, and expensive repairs.
Great point, well said.
A few factors, diesel w/ Def, cost of oil changes. I too have owned diesels my whole life. First gmc gas this year that 6.6 is awesome. Now I have only pulled 30k 2 times in this last 15k miles. My average weight is 21k pulling backhoe, or 18k with hay. Most of my miles are loaded. Very impressed with the gas engine by gm. Great vid but maintenence is part of the game in cost effective.
Cost of ownership in all of your examples has made the assumption that when you sell or depose of the vehicle they will net the same. I believe in almost all case the diesel will still have 60-70% of that initial cost difference in value (meaning if there was 10K difference at new there will be 6k difference at 5 yrs). The higher the mileage the more of that will be available on deposal. A diesel with 150k will be at least 7k more than the gasser. Loved the video. It helped me organized my points of why I prefer diesel also.
Great point. Thank you for comment. I explain the resale argument in more detail here:
th-cam.com/video/NBnG41H8qDo/w-d-xo.html
Great video. However, I would point out that the $10-$15k price difference is usually held in resale value. I just sold my 2019 F350 STV DRW Truck. I bought it for $58k and sold it after 5 years for $41k. It had just under 100k miles. The truck I had before was a F350 SRW gasser. I had it for 3 years. I paid $39k for it, and sold it for $17k. Maintenance was more on the diesel, but my gasser was in the shop more with warranty issues. There are 2 things that hold a resale value of a truck in my opinion....4WD and Diesel Engine. In the long run I do not think that I saved or lost money with a diesel truck. One other thing. On the farm there are still 7.3 fords with 400k miles that run like new. I have never gotten more then 280k on a vehicle that was gas. However, now I would never really own a daily driver that is more than 5 years old.
Thank you for watching! Great points. If interested, here's a video on the resale topic:
th-cam.com/video/NBnG41H8qDo/w-d-xo.html
You buy a diesel truck when it's the best truck for the job. I don't think your gas truck could handle my 20k lb fifth wheel.
Exactly, I'm not dealing with all the emissions crap and regens and engine block heating in the winter and DEF, etc of a diesel for my 10K trailer. Total overkill.
Very true. Right tool makes all the difference!
Keep up the good work I wished you could’ve done a maintenance cost but good video
Well, you left out an important point for diesel... RESALE!
We're calling the $10,000 option an added "cost", but the reality is the diesel becomes a massive asset come resale. It's very common to see diesels, even used diesels with 100k+ miles, still selling for $5k-$10k above what you'd paid for similar mile used gas trucks, sometimes even more. With that, diesel starts to make more sense.
For me, I just don't even consider the upgrade as a "cost", it's just something I get back at the end my ownership, like a refundable security deposit. Basically, as long I don't blow the engine up, I get my money back at the end of it.
Also, there are other big benefits to diesels besides fuel savings and better resale. Diesels with exhaust brakes, particularly Cummins diesels and their strong exhaust brakes, will save you on brake pads and rotors. Over the life the vehicle, you could see thousands of dollars in savings just on brakes. This is especially true for people who do a lot of towing and/or stop and go driving. As someone who's towed a lot with gas and diesel, I can attest to that saving from exhaust brakes. Resale aside, the saving and security and confidence you get with an exhaust brake makes the diesel premium worth it.
That said, I wouldn't encourage someone who doesn't really need a diesel to go out and get a diesel. There are other issues that comes with diesel ownership. The emissions stuff can be killer for people who don't use these trucks as intended. For those who'd buy diesel for no reason beyond just wanting one, they should think twice. It maybe a very expensive headache in the end.
When it comes to repairing a diesel it's a lot more expensive to
Yes they do hold their value but cost of ownership is still higher on a diesel. That exhaust brake you bring up. It is achieved with a variable geometry turbo which all do fail. Have you priced out how much one of those turbos are? And then what if you happen to have a high pressure fuel pump fail and have to replace everything in your fuel system. That repair alone costs as much as the diesel engine option in the initial purchase of the truck. Emission control issues, another costly expense.
@@adventurercalvin Having owned many trucks, I'm fully aware of the cost when it comes to repairs. It's not cheap.
However, that's not something long-term owners face as often as you'd be concerned with. Certainly not in my case.
You know, my current 6.7L diesel has nearly 250k miles on it right now. It's fully stock, 100% original powertrain, turbo, injection system, and all emissions stuff like the DPF and EGR, it's all been there from the factory. No repairs done to any of it. Could that stuff fail soon? Sure, but who cares???
With 250k miles and the work I do with the truck, the truck doesn't owe me a thing anymore. It's already paid for itself several times over. At this point, the thing has become a cash saving cow. If the thing quits tomorrow, I couldn't be mad because it's way ahead financially.
But it shows no sign of quitting. So, all it's doing is delivering piece of mind.
I hear you! Thank you for bringing that resale issue up. I completely forgot to mention that! Sometimes I wonder if the resale argument is more useful to car dealerships to help them justify lowballing gas trade-ins and limiting discounts on diesel MSRP? Certainly makes sense, but I wonder if we forget when we go to sell that diesel truck years later how much we spent on the diesel premium initially? Definitely a point of consideration though!
@@AkioWasRight my boss has a couple of diesels in a couple of gas trucks so one day I asked him what should I get a diesel or a gas he told me if you don't need a diesel don't get a diesel
on the new ones, not only are the oil change is more expensive. You also have the fuel filters, and the def. So unless you’re using it like a diesel needs to be used I agree completely with this guy.
Thank you for the comment
That doesn’t account for maintenance, DEF, insurance, taxes or repairs. Many localities will tax diesel HD trucks as commercial trucks. My county does.
Great video. I agree, diesel is just for towing and gas is for light to win every day driving.
I always had gas HDs and just now got a diesel HD. I’ll never go back to gas. I don’t know anyone who buys diesel thinking they save money.
Except how every single diesel fanboy won't shut up about the resale value proposition even though it's not true.
20 years ago they were cheaper to run and more reliable than a gas motor, and they still have that reputation despite it not being true for over a decade. Modern diesel are expensive to run, expensive to maintain, and expensive to fix.
@@dcl97 20k miles so far and no issues. My last gas HD Ram didn’t even make it off the lot before the issues started. Parts are not that much more. If you can’t afford the 10k for the diesel upgrade, then yeah you probably can’t afford to fix it. Everything was cheaper 20 years ago. I do my own maintenance and besides the initial cost of the motor, it’s not costing me more than a few hundred dollars to maintain over a gas. Diesel is cheaper or on par with gas for me.
@@SliderFury1 or how every gas HD owner try’s to justify what they have. Goes both ways.
@@SliderFury1 What isn't true about HD Diesel resale value being higher than HD Gas. If you look it up for yourself, you'll find any HD truck brand of same year and with simular miles will say it's true. The only exception would be if that brands Diesel engine had some negative history. I'm pretty sure some old FORD Diesels are selling for more money than NEW just because they lack current day DEF requirements 🙂
No arguing your data; makes perfect sense. My decision was on the 6.2L V8 OR the 3.0L Duramax. The minimax upcharge was about $4k in 2023 (arguable because the 6.2L was hard to find and dealers charged a PREMIUM for it over the 3.0). With the MPG variance on these engines (9 towing with the 6.2 and 16 with the 3.0), the "savings" delta becomes a was (mostly). Mostly, because as others have said: DEF, Oil (freaking DexosD must be made with Manatee oil).
I've owned diesels since my 2001 7.3L Powerstroke, so I just prefer them; but you're right . . . from a finance perspective: no way.
The comments about diesel power are spot on. At the end of the day, there is really one big difference when it comes to power. Diesels make power effortlessly. If you love to hear your motor wrapped up to 4000 RPMs, then get a gas. If you want your engine to lumber along at 2000 RPMs (still walking away from the gas at 4000) then save the money and get a gas.
An engine is a tool. I want the one that does the BEST job, no matter what it costs.
As always, your mileage may vary, probably pun intended... 😂
Great point. Right tool is key!
I currently have a 2023 GMC 2500 Duramax. I dont daily it. I work from home and have a 2nd vehicle. In almost 2 years of ownership, i have put about 15K miles on it almost exclusively towing our 36ft TT or our 20 ft box trailer w/toys in it. Due to the pretty limited mileage that I use it, im not super exposed to the maintenance cost. Mostly went desiel for comfort while towing and ease of refueling with a trailer on. Not married to it though. Would be interested in trying a gasser one day.
I hear you. The Duramax is so powerful. Thank you for the comment.
You are going to stir up a hornet's nest with this one. Yes, IF you pull heavy, over 12 or 13 thousand pounds up the Rockies all the time, a Diesel will probably work the best for you, but all maintenance costs need to be figured in. Most people don't do that and will find a HD gas rig just fine. Now just sit back and watch the diesel owners start flying all around you.
What I see is if you're towing 10000+ lbs over flat country, get a truck with a gas engine. Mountains and long grades, get a diesel. One issue not mentioned is the service schedule interval is greater with a diesel than gas engine. The timer on the diesel is the same as a gas engine (5000 to 6000 miles). For a diesel, this is complete nonsense! The oils only need changing every 7500 miles at a minimum for severe duty and can go much longer (10,000+ miles) between changes for lighter duty. For many drivers, this means oil changes twice a year at the most. Diesels run cooler and the oil takes longer to deteriorate. That wasn't factored in.
Remember, diesel fuel is a lubricant; gasoline is a solvent.
I hear you!
100% agree with you. If you are pulling everyday heavy loads (equipment) for work the diesel makes sense, but the occasional heavy pulling, gas is the way to go.
Resale value?
Great point. I sometimes wonder if the resale argument is overplayed perhaps? With the 10-14K paid as a premium on diesels, I wonder, does one truly get more than that same depreciated 10-14K in a resale compared to gas? Perhaps it depends on the generation of gas engine or diesel engine. I can definitely see how car dealerships use that argument to bid lower on gas trucks when you're looking to trade and then take less off new diesels when you're trying to negotiate.
I just traded a 2015 Cummins and got 30k with 99k miles on. Guy from work traded his gasser 2014 5k more miles other wise basically same truck, he got 23k. Dealer sold my old truck for 36k in 2 days. Should have held out for more. You certainly don’t make up the entire diff of the 10-12k on trades but they definitely hold the value better.
@@one24mikeI don’t think that counts as holding value better, if anything it would suggest that the gas held its value better. Yes you got more as a trade in but you also paid more for it when you bought it. Just using round numbers, if you paid $10k more than your friend for the diesel when new, you only got $7k more on your trade so his held value better. It probably doesn’t make much difference in the book value but technically his was 1 model year older than yours so it even held its value that much more.
@@AdventureRocks I believe it's the Engine life expentency before needing a rebuild that makes the argument for a better Resale Value. Also, I'm in a different Diesel Catorgory though... I've got the LZ0 3l Duramax in a 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 Denali Ultimate and my MPG not towing on the highway in 2wd has been as great as 38.7 mpg one-way for 71 miles. Our Diesel prices currently are @ 4.29 per gal in Southern California (Costco Top Tier Diesel). Now this isn't towing as I'm still waiting for my Grand Design 22bhe to be delivered. I'll update later. I've heard good and bad about this engine for towing and DEF consumption. I've also seen videos where they are towing 75mph and drinking DEF. However I don't plan on towing @ that speed. I know the BEST MPG is at 65mph and if I'm on vacation why rush.
I was looking at a comparison on values of 4 year old trucks. 7.3 gas vs 6.7 diesel. The diesel actually lost 4k more in value over 4 years then gas. I am sure if you were comparing to the old 6.2 gas the results might have been different.
Great video!! One thing you did forget with the diesel, the additional cost of DEF.
Thank you for pointing that out! Lots of other expenses there for sure!
I tow our Jayco North point 5th wheel with a Chevy DuraMax Diesel HD High Country.
We go all over the country and pulls like a beast. Love the exhaust break in the mountains.
Would never go back to gas.
*You also did a major down size on your RV rig, that would be ok for your gas truck😉
Great point on the weight. Duramax is a beast!
One must factor in that money costs money. The extra 10K invested represents either money you have to pay finance costs on or (in the case of a cash buyer) money you could invest and achieve a return on. Plug a finance charge into your spreadsheet and diesel gets even harder to justify.
As a business owner of 5 diesel trucks they are quite expensive to maintain as well (if you can get one out of a shop for under 1K consider yourself lucky). My last truck purchase was a gasser and while it’s a bit “doggy” while towing it’s become my favorite daily driver. Unloaded and unburdened by a trailer, the mileage is similar and the similar horsepower makes them just as peppy to drive around.
Great points
If you want to save money over the long haul, don't buy a truck.
Exactly. I bought a truck to do truck stuff.
Just made the switch to a 2024 Sierra Denali 2500 HD Duramax 6.6. Still mapping out operational costs. Here in Detroit diesel is running +$0.40 over unleaded. But the V8 2500 HD requires premium; which right now is +$0.90 over diesel. In my case I bought used; 18k on the clock for several thousand under bluebook with a clean history. Cost analysis between V8 and diesel will vary significantly based on your area, purchase/engine premium price of the vehicle, mileage driven, etc.
It comes down to your situation if a diesel makes sense to you. Focusing on only the HD diesels (6.0L +) and not the smaller ones; also the V8 Gas Equivalent of the HD Diesel......
If you tow/haul frequently, tow/haul heavy loads (+8000k lbs), travel hilly/steep terrain, operate a plow, or simply want to experience everything an HD rig can offer; diesel is the choice for you. Diesel engines can easily go 250k miles and the engine will typically outlast the body and interior. They tow beautifully even on grade. With exhaust braking you save wear on your brakes while traveling/towing downgrade. Generally speaking, MPG, especially while tow/hauling is better than the gas counterpart. Resale value is typically higher than the gas counterpart; absorbing some, if not all of the diesel upgrade cost on a new vehicle.
The drawbacks to diesel.....There is more maintenance involved with diesels; DEF fluid, filter changes, oil cost than with gasoline. The availability of diesel may be limited in your area. In many areas the cost of diesel fuel is less than premium. But you will have to factor in maintenance costs.
If you tow/haul infrequently, tow/haul moderate loads (-8000k), plan on using for light duty the majority of the time, travel less hilly/steep terrain, and don't plan on keeping the vehicle over 100k miles or 5-7 years then a gasoline V8 would be the better option for you. Gas engines go roughly 100k miles before showing issues or failure. If you plan on disposing of the vehicle around that mileage you won't benefit from the longevity of a diesel engine. This will save you money at purchase; be it new or used. As a side note; if you downgrade from a 1 ton / 3/4 ton to a half ton truck; you can get offroad and track equipped gas engines.
Which is right for you? That depends on your situation and preference. For me the choice was clear. I wanted the maximum capability to tow a trailer. I wanted the maximum performance while towing or hauling. The fuel costs with maintenance factored in was a wash. And I plan on keeping my truck past 250k miles. Yea, it can be a pain in the a** to navigate tight parking lots but the 360 camera comes in clutch.
And the cost and maintenance of DEF
You don’t buy a diesel to worry about it😉
Very true
Bought the 2024 Chevy 6.6 gas motor 2500hd, getting 17mpg driving faster than the speed limit and 22mpg driving 62mph using cruise control. Tow rating is only 300# less than the DuraMax. I was going to get the diesel, but 20k price difference stopped me. I wanted the 2500hd as it's overbuilt for my needs. The truck sure gets lots of looks.
I’m towing a Grand Design Imagine 2500RL with a 2018 Toyota Tundra. I’m looking at GM 3/4 ton trucks. This is my dilemma, one month I’m thinking diesel & then the next I’m thinking gas. I keep going back & forth. Also it’s hard for me to get rid of my truck that’s never had a problem & go to something that might have problems. I’ve joined the different forums about gas & diesel problems. Seems like everything new has problems, no specific brand. Thanks for the video
If you're pulling with a Tundra then the 6.6L gasser is all you'll need.
The first time I towed my camper after getting a diesel I immediately felt dumb that I hadn’t towed with one previously. It just tows better and safer for me.
Great points. I hear you!
I have the same exact trailer, I'm using a 23 HD 2500 gasser. It pulls it perfectly.
I tow about 5k miles year using my 08 V10 F250. Works fine for my needs without the worry of high repair bills of a diesel. Just put in gas and oil changes every 5k miles and it's good!
Great point. V10 power is a beast.
If you figure in depreciation and value retention, a diesel truck wins every time especially when you get close to and over 100k.
Thank you for the comment. Stay tuned in weeks ahead for more detailed follow-up video on the resale topic.
Great video - taking the analysis to the next step would be great.
-Annual maintenance expense
- expected major maintenance service cost within 5 years
- Def fluid additional cost
- for the finale how many years beyond 5 years until you reach break-even at 12k, 15k and 20k miles
I suspect you need to drive at least 30k miles per year before diesel makes financial sense for 5 years of ownership. On the other hand , the new analysis may inform someone that you need to own your truck at least 10 years and drive 25k miles per year for example
I hear you, great point! And, thank you for the comment. Here's a more detailed video on the resale value for the big picture:
th-cam.com/video/NBnG41H8qDo/w-d-xo.html
An hotshot driver never keeps his/her truck that long…. Just get the gas people
I hotshot with my gas truck
Very nice!
Glad you put this together! Very well explained
Thank you for the comment!
How can you say your losing money for the diesel engine? When you go to sell the trucks a diesel will bring 10k-15k more than a gas truck. The fuel savings alone and towing torque are worth it.
In 5 years your gas truck is worth 25k a diesel will be worth 45-50k.
I reeeallly wish people would stop saying this. It's not true. You spend $10K more up front and you'll be LUCKY to get that back in this market. Do a little research. Diesels will fetch $7-$9K more in trade-in value on average. You do not magically make more money by selling your diesel truck, you simply get back all (or recently, more like just most of) the extra money you put down to get it.
And then what if you have a loan and you're paying interest on that larger initial amount?
And do you think people want modern emissions-choked diesel trucks out of warranty?
People are not going to be paying premiums in five or six years for broken emissions diesels. If anything, people may be dumping them because they can’t afford to fix them.
Although to be fair, that will become more and more the issue with any modern vehicle. Too much expensive tech to go bad.
I hear you. Thank you for bringing that up. I wonder sometimes if that argument is overplayed in reality? When I've sold my diesel trucks in past they still depreciate about the same. Maybe they have sold quicker, so certainly that aspect. I can definitely see where a car dealership would use the resale argument to prevent us buyers from negotiating more $$ off a deal involving a gas trade-in and diesel purchase, right?
People are saying it because he included the full cost of the initial purchase of diesel. When you trade it even if you get 8k extra over a gas the extra cost is actually 2k not 10k…..I guess the bottom line is it’s your money and if you are worried about stuff like DEF and a fuel filter change every 15k you probably shouldn’t be spending what a gas cost to buy let alone a diesel. I use about 1 gallon of DEF per 1k miles driving. When the gauge reads 1/2 half I put a jug in and I cost $11.99 at Walmart for the name brand. Filters every 15k are $289 at my dealer. Oil changes are 15k or 7500 per manufacturer so again I don’t get these huge maintenance costs everyone is talking about.
@@one24mikethat makes no sense. Just because you get $10K back doesn't mean you didn't spend it in the first place. Are you saying that if you get the full extra cost of the diesel back on a trade it's like you didn't actually spend it in the ifirst place? You still need the extra $10K up front to begin with. By that logic, there should be no reason for you not to get the highest possible trim level because it will be worth more when you sell it. Like oh,i really just need an XLT, but this Lariat Ultimate Tremor is $10K more so I'll get $10K more back when i sell it! I don't follow. In other words, I dont see the whole resale value thing as an argument FOR a diesel over a gas. It's a wash. If you NEED a diesel, great, you'll eventually get the extra money back that you spent on it (maybe). But saying that's an ADVANTAGE doesn't track anyore than telling someone to buy a Platinum over an XL because they'll get more money for it on trade.
And as far as the maintenance stuff goes, i think it's less about the routine stuff (which is really not bad, like you said) and more about when components break and/or wear out, they are more expensive to replace on diesels than gas on average. And then there's the emissions crap and various other inconveniences (diesels don't like short trips, need an engine block heater if you have very cold winters, etc).
I just see ZERO reason to deal with all that unless you NEED to, i.e. your gas truck is struggling with your trailer based on its weight/size and where you're towing it.
Diesel also has a much higher maintenance charge. On the other hand, the average gas truck buyer will purchase a minimum of 2 trucks for every 1 truck a diesel buyer purchases. Gas truck owners typically like to upgrade once they get around 100k miles. Diesel owners typically start thinking that at around 250k miles with some holding on till 400k-500k. If you like upgrading every few years then cost isn't really an issue anyway. If you upgrade when high mileage starts affecting reliability then buying diesel will definitely pay for itself over the gas.
Hi, diesel trucks holds more value then gas truck, so whole calculation is a nonsense.
All the best.
Myth. Do a little research. You pay $10K more upfront and these days you don't even get THAT back.
I hear you. I sometimes wonder if that argument is overplayed in reality? But, I can definitely see where a car dealership would use that argument to lowball a customer trading in a gas truck and then further limit the discount when upgrading to a new diesel. Thank you for bringing up that point though!
Great video. It doesnt matter what fuel mileage it gets the cost of DEF, fuel price as well as maintenace for fuel filters more oil capacity for oil changes, now factor in cost of repairs. diesels do tend to hold value at re sale compated to a gas significantly tho. I still think a Hybrid gas 3/4 or 1 ton will be the game changer. Gives you the comparible fuel mileage too a diesel, and added power while towing. Plus i like the idea of being -40C and my hybrid motor turns on and instantly warms up cab and gas motor prior to battery depletion. Your diesel "might" turn on that day. But it damn sure better be plugged in, high quality fuel or fuel additive as well as cycle the glow plugs.
Great point, very instresting on the hybrid concept. Thanks for sharing.
I had a 2001 Silverado 2500HD with the 8.1 gas/6-speed manual; I loved it, especially with the Flowmaster exhaust. Then, for my 70th birthday, treated myself to a '23 Sierra 2500HD Denali diesel; I love it too. DEF is not a big deal, neither is the fuel filter. I think if you buy a new truck every 22 years, just get what you want and enjoy it. At the end of the day, don't sweat the small stuff...it doesn't matter. In my experience, the diesel resale value over the gasser on my old '01 would have recouped the initial cost of a diesel, had I done that.
Great point! Thank you for the comment.
Awesome video! Two other things that came to mind for me. What would be the difference in value of the two trucks at the end of 5 years. In other words the diesel truck cost more initially, but it's probably worth more at the end. Secondly I've never owned of diesel but I understand routine maintenance is considerably more expensive. Cost of oil changes for example.
I have a 2020 Chevy 1500 6.2 -10 speed ❤. With max tow. It’s awesome! GCWR 17800, 12k trailer. And rides great unlike all the 2500s. Love my MAX
I did a similar analysis back in the 80's before I bought a gas truck. I am currently wanting a HD AT4x 6.6 gasser but dealers only stock diesel. I have also heard the maintenance is more for diesel.
Good choice for antenna and bed cover.
Great comparison video! I learned a lot. Thanks.
Thank you for the comment!
I've spent 12 grand on repairs for the 2015 duramax 3500 with the def and cp3 repairs alone and the truck has 139 thousand miles! the 2012 and newer diesels are not the same anymore , at least in the emission restrictive states
You should do this and factor in your exit strategy (resell value) and your number will change drastically 😊
I hear you, great point! And, thank you for the comment. Here's a more detailed video on the resale value:
th-cam.com/video/NBnG41H8qDo/w-d-xo.html
What about factoring in 5 years of maintenance costs and residual resale/trade in value?
Very well done!
I’m going to put my Powerstroke on FB marketplace now..
I would be curious to see what the 3 L baby Duramax cost saving to gas would be. I know it is not a heavy duty truck for towing, but not everyone needs a heavy duty truck. Great video.
Great point. I've heard so many positive things about the baby dmax. It may not be up for heavy towing, but it sure is an efficient engine and priced right to make the fuel savings worth it.
And this same analysis applies to EVs. I looked at a Model Y in 2022 and the cost was $60,000. I then looked at a Chevy Equinox which was similar in size and comfort and it was $32,000. When I did the break-even analysis I calculated I would have to drive 420,000 miles to recover the additional $28,000 initial cost. I live in the PA road salt zone and cars are lucky to see 200,000 miles here before they succumb to rust.
Excellent pros and cons. I switched in 2020 to all gas trucks. The saving is phenomenal and we still pull the same 15k skid steers and heavy equipment trailers. The power is not the same and you need to leave more room in between vehicles as I tell my guys cause no exhaust brake. The plus after 6 trucks in savings of not getting the diesel option it affords us another new 1 ton work truck. Our hot shot 2021 7.3 with 163k miles runs perfectly. My personal 7.3 with 90k also has been flawless. No more diesels for us. Hopefully GM will add some ponies and torque in 2026 to their gas motor in 2026. I need to replace 4 more trucks.
Thank you for the firsthand experience shared, that is incredibly helpful. And, thank you for watching!
It’s always been a pretty straight forward thing. You pay considerably more for a truck with a diesel engine. The fuel savings don’t recoup that unless you are hauling heavy loads full time. Other than that, if you constantly drive with heavy loads up and down in altitude you need the torque of a diesel.
This is exactly why i went with the 7.3 gas vs diesel! One thing you forgot was the maintenace difference and repair cost difference to 100k miles
You are right, you won't save money but having the peace of mind that you can easily tow uphill with the truck not straining and get super braking power with the exhaust brake may be worth it. Also, you will recoup some of the diesel engine premium when you sell it or trade it. Look at any 5 plus year old truck and the diesel is worth several thousand more than the same gas truck.
Should consider an update video with maintenance costs/mile on engine.
Makes an easy decision unless you're at high altitude with heavy loads or very heavy loads.
What rear end gear does that GM have?
Ford's 7.3 Godzilla port injected is a contender imo.
I wish GM had kept the 8.1 liter
Thank you for the comment. 3.73 on all GMs (no option for other). I got a lot of questions about the maintenance, so recently added this video here:
th-cam.com/video/SaM_0StXEYk/w-d-xo.html
I agree 100% 20yrs ago when I crunched the numbers and Deisel was less than gas the break even point of fuel cost was 100,000miles for the extra cost of the deisel engine. That’s not even looking at the cost of oil changes and maintenance.
I would like to see the maintenance factor to see the difference also.
Thank you for the comment. Glad to! Here is the requested video:
th-cam.com/video/SaM_0StXEYk/w-d-xo.html
I think it’s also important to consider the cost of DEF, which should be proportional to fuel consumption and easy enough to estimate. I’ve tracked every maintenance cost to my 2018 2500HD Duramax since new and am sitting at about 167k now. I’ve figured out that the cost of operation FOR ME will shake even at around 15mpg (depending on fuel cost disparity). I think a lot of people really want to hold onto the diesel resale thing, but that’s a wash in either direction…you don’t pay the premium up front, have to pay the interest, etc…not a factor for me. Pulling power…sure, if you really NEED it, will be better with a diesel.
Well said