I would have given Palkia Origin something like Speed Boost considering its a horse that gallops in space. And Dialga could have gotten.... i dunno... Stamina? To waste your time?
@@virtualcoltIt would probably be too broken, but what about a unique ability that automatically sets Trick Room when it enters the field? Dialga can change the flow of time, so it would make sense.
Gravity doesnt really do anything for palkia, and is too niche for its teams tbh. Maybe as the space pokemon it would materialise screens for your team? Maybe for a reduced amount of turns if too broken
@@akshayreddy4071Gravity is pretty useful for it, actually. Means it can run consistent Hydro Pumps, Fire Blasts, Focus Blasts, Thunders, and even Spacial Rend and Draco Meteor lose their small chances to miss. It's not crazy broken like setting up Trick Room is, but it's decent. It's even more useful in Doubles, but it's also the only chance Gravity has of being useful in Singles since it isn't worth the turn to setup.
Dialga setting up TR would be insane and super toxic, especially with dynamic speed: like some people said, something for recharge/ charging and sleep turns would already work wonders. Completely agree on Palkia tho, having 104% accurate Hydro Pump would make it so much funnier to play.
I think the sad part is, When Rayquaza got it's mega they made sure it was still the master of it's domain over the other primals, with delta stream. Dialga should make turns count as "2 turns" or something (charge moves, recharge, sleep turns tick down faster/go away). This would buff roar of time too. Palkia could either activate one of the current "rooms", gravity, or a new one. Gravity would be good for spacial rend accuracy. Even just the lazy "slap levitate on both" would work.
Levetate would be big for Dialga-O, since it would literally remove one of it’s two weaknesses in Ground. It would become much harder to remove as a result, and with a better more support based movepool could be good for a similar role as Giratina. But alas. Giratina may have been banished, but they stay winning.
Palkia-O getting Speed Boost (to reference expanding space), and Dialga-O getting Regenerator (to reference reversing time) would have made these mons a lot more viable.
@@jip0611Gravitational time-dilation. Between two objects if gravity is stronger for the first object then time moves faster for it relative to object 2. An easier explanation is astronauts age a bit slower (weaker gravity) since they are further from Earth's gravitational curvature. Gravity literally curves spacetime and I think this is why Palkia and Dialga are equal in the story. What would have been cool if the two had unique abilities is.. they set up Gravity (all other pokemon grounded and +66% accuracy increase), Dialga can skip charging turns and to the end of weather/field effects and Palkia bypasses barriers/protect. ^This lets dialga weaken offense and palkia weaken defense. Both will also be able to use their stronger attacks without drawbacks. If the two are sent out against eachother they set up and then undo the gravity distortion which makes sense even narratively. Despite being narratively some of the stronger legendaries it's unfortunate that gamefreak mishandled them and regigigas. I think they also deserve an extra beneficial effect.
People get speed very wrong: the reason 20 (sp) defense is subtle but 20 speed is a lot is that the (sp) defence is combined with your health stat, the opponents attack stat, and the power of the move, which then gives you a range of damage. Speed is just a binary check against the enemies speed where the winner takes all, that's why you really feel a change in speed tier much more notably.
Also because 100-120 specifically is an important and crowded speed threshold for Ubers, that puts you from "fast enough to outspeed slow pokemon only" to "can outspeed things that aren't speed focused". Good comparison for the benchmark is old-school Garchomp. Garchomp outsped everything threatening, and was mostly only outsped by things that were focused enough into speed that they were frail or weak. The nuance is a bit different for modern Ubers, since stuff like Zacian and Eternatus live in that above 120 range, but
this shit makes no sense because giratina-o has been around SINCE GEN 4 with levitate, which means GF should have known to change dialga-o and palkia-o's abilities as well. and yet they didn't, for some reason
Honestly i think these were beta designs or something and they just had them laying around during PLA so they just used them as a cheap cashgrab or something
Dialga, palkia and giratina origin forms should ALL get a 100 bst increase, a new ability, and possibly movesets changes. They re the literal gods of the universe, the most important beings in creation after god. How can they let them suck this bad when a fucking motorbike mon is banned to AG ?
Well, at least O-Giratina isn't bad. But yes, being a good support isn't what you expect from, theoretically, the most powerful being in the Pokemon world after Arceus.
Easy fix, change their abilities: 1. Dialga: Temporal Shift: 2-turn moves now become one turn and the ability bearer doesn't require a recharge turn after using certain moves (Roar of Time, etc.) 2. Palkia: Spatial Shift: Disables moves that effect the ability bearer's "space", including stealth rock, spikes, toxic spikes, trick room, wonder room, magic room, gravity, etc. However, if that's too much (which it really wouldnt be in the current meta, Palkia would actually see a crazy amount of usage) there's this: 1. Dialga: Infiltrator 2. Palkia: Wonder Skin It really isn't that difficult
Honestly Palkia O has maybe a chance. Dialga would be better if they put some of that speed into defense, give it a better ability and give it priority moves. Sad seeing Pokemon Gods fall
Weather Trio: Get straight up upgrades, 100 bst boost with broken abilities and signature moves, essentially better mega evolutions. Creation Trio: Have to hold an item only to get stat distribution swaps, didn't get their signature moves buffed, despite only palkia's being good, and still have mostly useless abilities. Favoritism from gamefreak? Never heard of it......
Gamefreak hates gen 4 confirmed. Mega garchomp is worse than garchomp in competitive. BDSP has no gimmicks, so gen 4 mons could not keep up with power creep.
In Natdex Ubers, Palkia Origin is A- or B+ in the Viability rankings, it serves as a wallbreaker that can threaten Primal Groudon, Ferrothorn, Dondozo and more. All its problems aren't as relevant there as it finds a very good niche as a wallbreaker.
A- currently, though it could be changed after the VR is updated. But yes, it has fire coverage for ferro, beats Pdon, Ho-oh, ArcGround, etc helps a ton
The big issue for them is the no items thing. While they may have superior stat spreads, being stuck with just the cores is very limiting. Giratina makes it work because Griseous fits its offensive support playstyle and it gains the Levitate ability. These two have superior stat spreads to their base forms, but they can't use those changes for anything good because they're still stuck with non-Abilities for their Abilities.
The thing that kills these forms for me is that they just feel way too minimal. Like, you look at some of the crazy buffs pokemon like necrozma and calyrex (hell even giratina) get when changing forms, and palkia and Dialga just feel so shafted in comparison. Even for Palkia, 20 speed is nice, but in gen 9 Ubers 120 speed isn’t really that fast anymore (which feels crazy to say but it’s true). I don’t know how to say it nicer, but I just wish game freak tried a little harder when making these two.
How to fix those origin forms. With Dialga isn't too hard, just change it's ability from Preassure to Filter and give it Recover. I don't get why it doesn't have Recover honestly, since Arceus have it. With Palkia is a lot harder, but as a start, change it's ability from Pressure to No Guard for no more miss of Hydro Pun and Spacial Rend, Then you could give it Nasty Plot for make it the only dragon uber with a way to get a +2. At last, change it's HP (90) with it's Atk (100) to make it a little more bulky. That wouldn't turn it into a centralizing threat, but at least could turn it into something a little viable. Maybe. But if you truly wanted make them feel like the gods above every god that they are according to the lore... Just make thier core items work the same as Pikachu's Light Ball.
As much as I like legends arceus, the origin forms are extremely disappointing, and feel kinda lazy. Their designs are dumb, and the only change to them is a 20 point stat change, and require an item to do so. Compared to Giratina’s orgin form, which greatly changes its stats and gives it a new ability, and especially towards primal Groudon and Kyogre, which greatly powered up these Pokémon and made them look cooler. I also wish the legend plate was in S/V. Yeah, it would be banned to anything goes immediately, but it would still be fun.
I feel like Gf hates gen 4 legends Idk why. These changes are non-existent they might as well not have an alternate form. I don't even know why they bother. I mean, the last straw for me was they still need to hold those items to maintain these garbage forms?! Talk about over-restriction. Do they really think they're going to be broken with this? 😂😂😂
@@TheOtherNeutrino Thing is that extra Speed is less than what a Choice Scarf is, so why would you bother with 20 points of base speed instead of a 50% boost? Yeah you get locked in, but rather that and out speed anything but other scarfs than get a tiny little 20 point boost and 20% boost to Dragon/Water moves when your SpA is already sitting at 150 lol
I still think they should have gotten abilities that affected the field. Maybe both set up Trick Room when they switch in? Switching them in while Trick Room is already set up restores the dimensions to normal. Or maybe Dialga sets up Trick Room and Palkia sets up Gravity. I think being introduced in Legends Arceus was a huge pitfall because there were no abilities in that game (minus Cherrim and Regigigas). So, you wouldn’t be able to deminstrate their abilities unless you transferred them into a game like Scarlet/Violet with abilities. The point is, there was so much potential for the deities residing over space and time and it really feels like that aspect was completely overlooked.
Even worse is that the forme change modified their signature moves in PLA, but that didn't carry over. (Roar became stronger but less accurate, and spacial rend lost some accuracy & power in exchange for getting an extra stage of higher crit chance)
Fantastic video, loved the editing u killed this. Definitely gonna go watch more this was fire On the topic of the video though i do absolutely agree, it feels like both Origin forms are just sorta... three. Every possible roll they could fill on a team i feel like is done better by other mons in the tier
Even with their Abilities aside, they should still give the Origin forms the same treatment thay got in P:LA: • The Great Orbs (the Core, Globe, and Crystal names in Japanese) should be reverted to key items and function like the Reveal Glass. This frees up their held item slot and makes them way more versatile. • Their signature moves should be altered from normal. In P:LA, Spacial Rend is a bit weaker, but has a higher crit rate (50% from the normal 12.5%) on Origin form Palkia, and Roar of Time and Shadow Force become more powerful, but a bit less accurate on Origin form Dialga and Giratina respectively. • P:LA also makes Roar of Time and Shadow Force into one-turn attacks, which makes them so much more usable than the recharge/two turn variants they have now. I know P:LA's battle system is a bit different than the main line of games, but making Roar of Time into a 120/140 bp variant of Hammer Arm and Shadow Force into a slightly stronger Poltergeist shouldn't break the meta.
Honestly Palkia-Origin would've been good in Ubers like one or two generations ago. It got power-crept by Gen 9's legendaries where it's speed isn't even that fast anymore and it doesn't hit as hard as Koraidon or Miraidon because of having a much worse ability.
Literally all the origin forms need is item access, gamefreak has no reason to restrict their item slots anymore. Let us have scarf origin Palkia gamefreak
Or an increase in +100 total stats as if it were a mega (it meets almost the same condition), I mean, why just be a distribution of the same total stats?
That's the interesting part of their designs. Both of them had gems and those gems moved to where their signature moves would be executed. Dialga looks like it couldn't roar with that gemstone there and Palkia straight up lost it's arms that it rends space with
@@peco595I will never understand where that interpretation of his designs came from.I'm just saying that within the games they are perfectly capable of using their signature moves (they are even more powerful)
@@reneantoniorodriguezippoli7561 Ironically in game they're worse since they lose out on an item slot so while Palkia-O is faster normally it gets blitzed by Scarf Palkia, same goes for Dialga and how bulky it is as Dialga-O getting 20 SpD isn't anywhere close to the SpD that assault vest gives. It's like they didn't even think how to set them apart from their originals lol
That's not even the worst part of Dialga-O's design for me. It's tail looks like a half-interested diamond butt plug, and I will never be able to see it as anything but(t) that.
In my case, I consider that the most disappointing thing about the origin forms is that they have normal abilities instead of new ones or that they have abilities that are related to the concepts of time, space and antimatter.
I always imagined giving them another pair of signature moves. For Dialga Time Stop which would cause every pokemon to flinch next turn. And for Palkia Spacial wave that would cause every single pokemon to switch out next turn.
I think they should have gotten some unique ability like Brilliant Celestial for Dialga and Shining Celestial for Palkia. Both give the effect of mold breaker plus: Brilliant Celestial Reduces all super effective damage by 1/4. So, instead of super effective moves being 2x powerful, they're 1.5x powerful. Or Trick room applies while on field. Cannot be turned off. Or It'd require a bit, but it gives either +1 or -1 to all its moves. You would be able to choose before battle. But this specific priority bracket gets inverted in trick room. Shining Celestial Hit fairies for neutral with dragon moves. Or All field effects get flipped. Entry hazards get swapped, as well as tailwind if available. Or All stat changes on the field (after entry hazards) become inverted.
I fully believe the reason they have Pressure as default is because their new forms were introduced in Legends Arceus, a game with no abilities (besides Flower Gift and Slow Start). When it came time to make them compatible with other games, they must have just... not been bothered to give them new abilities for their new forms... Which is a shame, there is so much potential with new abilities for the origin forms of the Space and Time gods...
I used dialga Origin as a tank rocker at the start of their release in regular ubers, and it actually did an amazing job. It got rocks up every game and was able to take solid hits and respond with amazing damage. Unfortunately, as the tier developed, people started to understand how it worked and it lost a lot of what made it good. Giratana is a better wall/defogger/spin blocker, so it was important to use what dialga o had in its niche, which was rocks setting, power, and better coverage in addition to bulk. Now that we have necrozma dm, it's unfortunately really outclassed. But there was a short period of time where it was very strong.
They really need to take the time to rework Pressure and/or give some of the Pokemon that have it something else. The description makes it sound so intimidating but in practice it's anything but.
I thought this from the start their abilities should’ve been like a built in quick claw and bright powder to tie in with time and space. Dialga has a chance to “slow down time” and move first while palkia “teleports” to avoid an attack.
Would've been insane to see a new ability for Palkia and Dialga where they had ultimate control over space and time to their advantage, like automatically using wonder room or trick room for a single turn whenever it would make them move first/hit the opposing Pokemon's lower defensive stat. Probably a bit broken, but at least these Pokemon basically have to give up an item slot for it (and it could always remove from the buffs the origin forms and the globes currently give as a balancing factor). And when they're competing with other restricted Pokemon, priority moves and equally high defensive stats is fairly common.
i see some interesting ideas in the comments about what abilities could be given to Dialga and Palkia Origin. Maybe instead of having them hold an item for the 1.2x boost in stab moves, make it their ability and make it exclusive to the origin forms? this also frees up the item slot
Honestly, Palkia-O's biggest problem is that Miraidon and Koraidon exists. The bikes being faster and their busted abilities enabling their destructive damage makes it difficult to ever consider using Palkia-O. Eternatus, a top 3 mon in Gen 8, is also suffering from getting harassed by the bikes, but it is still quite good (A ranked) and it is another mon that acts as hard competition for Palkia-O. This can be seen in NatDex Ubers, a tier with both Miraidon and Koraidon banned, Eternatus is a top 3 mon in that tier and Palkia-O is much better, sitting at B+ tier viability (was A-, but recent tier shift moved it), and would honestly be A tier if it weren't for Eternatus existing. Flutter Mane is another thing that brings down Palkia-O; the mon is very good in normal Ubers thanks to its ability to check the bikes. It is another mon that greatly annoys Palkia-O. However in NatDex Ubers, Flutter Mane is not very good due to the bikes being banned (it was much better when Koraidon was legal in the tier), thus it is not a mon that Palkia-O has to worry about in that tier.
This would probably be beyond broken, but I had a funny idea for an ability Origin Dialga could have gotten. Time Stream: Every time Dialga attacks, the dimensions are warped so that dialga always moves before the targeted pokemon. So essentially if the opponent is faster than Dialga, it'll automatically set trick room, and if trick room is already set and the target is slower it gets rid of trick room instead. It would only activate on single target attacks, so if a status move is used or Dialga would hit multiple pokemon with an attack, then nothing happens.
Trick room affects all pokemon. It's stupidly complicated and wouldn't work as intended most of the time. It would be 100 times better if you just make it reversed After you. But it would be broken anyway
Dialga and Palkia’s origin forms should’ve gotten abilities that allow instant trick room and gravity setup, respectively, upon switching in. And Dialga-O should’ve had like 5 speed in conjunction with this. GF has already proven multiple times they don’t care about the ramifications of broken abilities, might as well give the literal gods of time and space a similarly fitting broken ability.
they should buff pressure to also give another effect like cant use berries or cant heal since pressure would imply they dont have the time to stop for a heal
Dialga-O is irredeemable, but Palkia-O at LEAST has a niche as a middle bastard child between choice scarf and choice specs, minus the choice. It's probably worse than Palkia with an actually good item, but has niche use cases where it's exactly what the team needs. Unfortunately, it's still *just* Palkia, and Palkia has been an active liability in Ubers since gen 6 unless you pair it with Shedinja to parry Xern, and even then it was just "okay"
Just give dialga trick room and that’s all the setup you’ll ever need. If it doesn’t flat out ko a few Pokémon it will do a huge chunk of their hp. I believe it’s most effective and underlooked it way to use it is as a bulky trick room sweeper
Just give new abilities Dialga-O gets priority on Roar of Time and doesn't have to recharge. Palkia-O ignores entry hazards and gets a 20% accuracy boost to all moves. Strong abilities for sure but there would still be good counterplay for both. Steel types would wall Dialga as you wouldn't want to switch in a fairy due to Dialga's own steel type, something like Zamazenta would be the perfect counter. Palkia would definitely get strong due to Hydro Pump, Spatial Rend, Draco, etc. would be 100% accurate but it would lose to any strong scarf mon or something crazy like specs Miraidon/Flutter Mane or banded Koraidon/Crowned-Zacian.
My biggest disappointment with these guys is the lack of a new ability. Why did Giratina get a new ability with his form, but not the others? Since they have retroactively updated abilities in gen 9, there's still hope that they give Palkia/Dialga new abilities.
I think being overly optimistic, but I have a feeling in the next games they’ll get some love.. there special animations are missing as well from SV. It maybe had something to do with different teams working on the games on different time lines so next games may catch up 😅
Dialga O losing 20 attack is also an even greater down side than it seems cuz Dialga mostly runs mixed sets with Draco meteor and Heavy slam but with less attack those sets are way less viable
Dialga-Origin should do fine in Trick Room but that's more consistent in Doubles, poor Palkia took the L as it was Caly-Ice's fav partner to check it's weaknesses, still stuck in Doubles as well.
They should have buffed the orbs. Each orb should have had a different effect that only applies to them. I woud suggest the following: Griseous: covert cloak boots or one time power herb (once per game you keep the item for shadow force) Adamant: Leftovers, shell bell or one time sitrus berry Lustrous: Expert belt or scope lens (to combo with spacial rend)
how about a 1.3x boost to a respective stat (could be defense for dialga, special defense for palkia and attack/spa for giratina) aswell as stacking with the original effects on dialga and palkia
Dialga and Palkia's Origin Formes really just need Levitate instead of Pressure to match Giratina and Calm Mind as a boosting move for both forms to use. I will never shut up about that. An even bulkier but somewhat weaker stat spread like this for Dialga kinda like how Giratina switches from defense to offense would probably make it better too. 100 HP 100 Attack 150 Defense 120 Sp. Atk 120 Sp. Def 90 Speed 680 BST
Dialga-O with Filter and Palkia-O with Dazzling would have been thematically fitting if you extrapolate it far enough and unfathomably based in Singles/Doubles also the Great Timespace Orbs being made into Held Items is just. why. they were so close to being free. they already WERE in BDSP. it is cowardice of the highest order.
i normally run steel beam roar of time earth power and thunder wave with my dialga and its nice cause it can counter calyrex shadow like lets say one of ur mons gets hit then send this guy out and it tanks a 1.5x SpA astral barrage while ur dialga can thunder wave or roar of time
if i had a nickel for every time legends arceus has introduced a new dragon/steel type alternate form with primarily defensive stats and a mostly offensive, lacking-in-utility movepool that leaves it with kneecapped viability...
if you know your pokemon is going to faint recharge moves are useable and on slaking back in gen 3 hyper beam was always its best move and gen 4 after giga impact and in slackings case it often outsped
Telepathy with bellibolt is a kick ass trick room team dragon pulse earth power flash cannon and protect for some bait and stall I Don't mind dialga at all
All three origin forms need a new signature ability thats useful competitively. Pressure and levitate are just mid. dialga should get an ability that "reverses" time after a few turns and heals the party with a little bit of HP (Temporal reverse) Palkia should have an area effect like dark aura or victory star. Based on the fact that its based on space. (Celestial Zone) Giratina should get neutralizing gas but called (Anti-matter)
I quite like their design. Both of seem punished, with Palkia having no arms to rend and Dialga's throat being blocked so it can't roar. Guess Arceus had to remind them who the the big G is
@@kingambitreal I feel like the concept of them being punished would've worked better if they looked like withered versions of their original forms, like Palkia having ripped wings, Dialga having jagged spikes and their crystals being cracked
Palkia would’ve been fine in like, last gen, and probably top tier back in 7. Speed creep has been absurd recently. As for Dialga… man, am I allowed to compare it to Doom Syndicate? Cause I’m seeing multiple similarities.
let me tell you if palkia o and dialgia had a change there main ability like giratina o which was a new ability that function with the setting down of trick room and gravity, that'll make there usage sky rocket. also be nice if they had are rework in ther design cause it not vutting it compared to giratina o
It's like Gamefreak is too scared to make them strong, so they settle for mediocrity.... Poor Lugia still over here losing Toxic and still not learning Stored power Fixing Palkia would be easy.... Speed Boost and Calm mind would make it dangerous and fast... lorewise it makes sense for the pokemon that controls spacial dimensions would be able to use this to go fast Dialga conversely would get Regenerator and Spikes... it can turn back time and it's partly made of metal... Spacial rend and Roar of time could also be changed.... Spacial Rend swapping accuracy and power, and getting a passive Infiltrator effect letting it bypass Screens and Substitute, Roar of Time changing from a Hyper Beam clone to a Doom Desire clone
I honestly feel like the Origin forms for Dialga and Palkia were rushed. The odd choice of only increasing one stat, and no new ability or even unique move for the form is very telling.
Honestly they should have just been mega forms. You could have worked it out pretty easily with all three. Just swapping around a few stats and losing an item slot sucks
If they have their own abilities like Palkia Spatial Dominion All moves will never miss and grants immunity to all field moves also include trick room. Dialga Temporal Dominion When entry slow every Pokemon on the field and move first before the opponent it like 1+ priority
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Least they got Ubers UU now... That's a somewhat positive
The lack of different abilities kills it for me. Giratina origin got Levitate, which changed everything.
Crazy enough, if Dialga-O and Palkia-O got access to Levitate, Dialga-O would be absolutely cracked.
@@aghadlarhen9397With the exception of Arceus, GF really does just hate any legendary weak to fighting.
Giratina origin had totally different stats than the modified form, they really didn't even try with those origin forma
I would have given Palkia Origin something like Speed Boost considering its a horse that gallops in space. And Dialga could have gotten.... i dunno... Stamina? To waste your time?
@@virtualcoltIt would probably be too broken, but what about a unique ability that automatically sets Trick Room when it enters the field? Dialga can change the flow of time, so it would make sense.
This was the opportunity to make Diagla set trick room and Palkia set gravity when switched in and ill never forgive them for not taking it!
Gravity doesnt really do anything for palkia, and is too niche for its teams tbh. Maybe as the space pokemon it would materialise screens for your team? Maybe for a reduced amount of turns if too broken
@@akshayreddy4071Gravity is pretty useful for it, actually. Means it can run consistent Hydro Pumps, Fire Blasts, Focus Blasts, Thunders, and even Spacial Rend and Draco Meteor lose their small chances to miss. It's not crazy broken like setting up Trick Room is, but it's decent. It's even more useful in Doubles, but it's also the only chance Gravity has of being useful in Singles since it isn't worth the turn to setup.
@@notnath14 Holy shit I completely forgot about the accuracy increase of gravity I'm so stupid
Dialga setting up TR would be insane and super toxic, especially with dynamic speed: like some people said, something for recharge/ charging and sleep turns would already work wonders. Completely agree on Palkia tho, having 104% accurate Hydro Pump would make it so much funnier to play.
A TR setting ability would be more fitting for Giratina though.
I think the sad part is, When Rayquaza got it's mega they made sure it was still the master of it's domain over the other primals, with delta stream.
Dialga should make turns count as "2 turns" or something (charge moves, recharge, sleep turns tick down faster/go away). This would buff roar of time too.
Palkia could either activate one of the current "rooms", gravity, or a new one. Gravity would be good for spacial rend accuracy.
Even just the lazy "slap levitate on both" would work.
Levitate would've changed so much for these two alone, idk why they kept their old abilties
Levetate would be big for Dialga-O, since it would literally remove one of it’s two weaknesses in Ground. It would become much harder to remove as a result, and with a better more support based movepool could be good for a similar role as Giratina.
But alas. Giratina may have been banished, but they stay winning.
I love the idea of an ability that makes 1 turn count as 2
Amazing ideas, and if would fit them
Or give it super-pressure, so now Zacian has three Behemoth Blades.
Palkia-O getting Speed Boost (to reference expanding space), and Dialga-O getting Regenerator (to reference reversing time) would have made these mons a lot more viable.
Speed boost might be a stretch (it could fit if you consider Palk a horse) but there are probably better alternatives
@@jip0611Gravitational time-dilation. Between two objects if gravity is stronger for the first object then time moves faster for it relative to object 2.
An easier explanation is astronauts age a bit slower (weaker gravity) since they are further from Earth's gravitational curvature.
Gravity literally curves spacetime and I think this is why Palkia and Dialga are equal in the story.
What would have been cool if the two had unique abilities is.. they set up Gravity (all other pokemon grounded and +66% accuracy increase), Dialga can skip charging turns and to the end of weather/field effects and Palkia bypasses barriers/protect.
^This lets dialga weaken offense and palkia weaken defense. Both will also be able to use their stronger attacks without drawbacks.
If the two are sent out against eachother they set up and then undo the gravity distortion which makes sense even narratively.
Despite being narratively some of the stronger legendaries it's unfortunate that gamefreak mishandled them and regigigas. I think they also deserve an extra beneficial effect.
People get speed very wrong: the reason 20 (sp) defense is subtle but 20 speed is a lot is that the (sp) defence is combined with your health stat, the opponents attack stat, and the power of the move, which then gives you a range of damage.
Speed is just a binary check against the enemies speed where the winner takes all, that's why you really feel a change in speed tier much more notably.
Also because 100-120 specifically is an important and crowded speed threshold for Ubers, that puts you from "fast enough to outspeed slow pokemon only" to "can outspeed things that aren't speed focused".
Good comparison for the benchmark is old-school Garchomp. Garchomp outsped everything threatening, and was mostly only outsped by things that were focused enough into speed that they were frail or weak.
The nuance is a bit different for modern Ubers, since stuff like Zacian and Eternatus live in that above 120 range, but
this shit makes no sense because giratina-o has been around SINCE GEN 4 with levitate, which means GF should have known to change dialga-o and palkia-o's abilities as well. and yet they didn't, for some reason
Honestly i think these were beta designs or something and they just had them laying around during PLA so they just used them as a cheap cashgrab or something
Because they forgot, they are stupid
Dialga, palkia and giratina origin forms should ALL get a 100 bst increase, a new ability, and possibly movesets changes. They re the literal gods of the universe, the most important beings in creation after god. How can they let them suck this bad when a fucking motorbike mon is banned to AG ?
Yeah it seems really lazy to give every single legend pressure
Well, at least O-Giratina isn't bad. But yes, being a good support isn't what you expect from, theoretically, the most powerful being in the Pokemon world after Arceus.
@@CL361 Giratina-O should be at calyrex shadow level in terms of strenght lol
Meanwhile Kyogre, Groudon and Rayquaza got w*nked
Easy fix, change their abilities:
1. Dialga: Temporal Shift: 2-turn moves now become one turn and the ability bearer doesn't require a recharge turn after using certain moves (Roar of Time, etc.)
2. Palkia: Spatial Shift: Disables moves that effect the ability bearer's "space", including stealth rock, spikes, toxic spikes, trick room, wonder room, magic room, gravity, etc.
However, if that's too much (which it really wouldnt be in the current meta, Palkia would actually see a crazy amount of usage) there's this:
1. Dialga: Infiltrator
2. Palkia: Wonder Skin
It really isn't that difficult
Palkia and Dialga have let their father down
Oh my god, I just realized they're Asians, cause they're from Japan. Arc is about to tell them they're a FAILURE.
They have one of the greatest fathers ever. Hard shadow to fill.
"You two are the most disappointing things since Giratina."
Not changing their ability when they sacrifice their item slot is criminal
Honestly Palkia O has maybe a chance.
Dialga would be better if they put some of that speed into defense, give it a better ability and give it priority moves.
Sad seeing Pokemon Gods fall
Never seen a pokemon need scale shot more than dialga O
They just need to swap Dialga's Defense and Sp. Atk and give both Dialga and Palkia Levitate in their Origin Formes and Calm Mind.
Weather Trio: Get straight up upgrades, 100 bst boost with broken abilities and signature moves, essentially better mega evolutions.
Creation Trio: Have to hold an item only to get stat distribution swaps, didn't get their signature moves buffed, despite only palkia's being good, and still have mostly useless abilities.
Favoritism from gamefreak? Never heard of it......
Gamefreak hates gen 4 confirmed. Mega garchomp is worse than garchomp in competitive. BDSP has no gimmicks, so gen 4 mons could not keep up with power creep.
@@jaretco6423 apparently, heatran and gliscor are still good in gen 9 ou.
@@jaretco6423 gliscor and heatran aged well from gen 4. Garchomp, the starters and the creation trio did not.
LET'S NOT FORGET GEN 4 ALSO INTRODUCED REGIGIGAS, A MON CRIPPLED BY SLOW START EVEN ON A GAME WITHOUT ABILITIES
You have to remember that Garchomp was king for along time
The king has to fall eventually @langmuir-hinshelwood1686
In Natdex Ubers, Palkia Origin is A- or B+ in the Viability rankings, it serves as a wallbreaker that can threaten Primal Groudon, Ferrothorn, Dondozo and more. All its problems aren't as relevant there as it finds a very good niche as a wallbreaker.
A- currently, though it could be changed after the VR is updated. But yes, it has fire coverage for ferro, beats Pdon, Ho-oh, ArcGround, etc helps a ton
@@kingambitreal palkia-o was moved down to b+ recently
The big issue for them is the no items thing. While they may have superior stat spreads, being stuck with just the cores is very limiting. Giratina makes it work because Griseous fits its offensive support playstyle and it gains the Levitate ability.
These two have superior stat spreads to their base forms, but they can't use those changes for anything good because they're still stuck with non-Abilities for their Abilities.
And ironically, Giratina was the only one that ever actually LIKED Pressure
Honestly I'm so happy black kyurem is good in Ubers, he's come so far since gen 5
What giving actual STAB does to a mf.
@@yungmuney5903
For real
The problem was never its stats, it was the fact that the 170 was almost unusable
Me before clicking the Video: I mean have u looked at them?
Me after watching: I mean have u looked at them?
The thing that kills these forms for me is that they just feel way too minimal. Like, you look at some of the crazy buffs pokemon like necrozma and calyrex (hell even giratina) get when changing forms, and palkia and Dialga just feel so shafted in comparison. Even for Palkia, 20 speed is nice, but in gen 9 Ubers 120 speed isn’t really that fast anymore (which feels crazy to say but it’s true). I don’t know how to say it nicer, but I just wish game freak tried a little harder when making these two.
Either give them a 100BST increase like Groudon/Kyogre, or make it so the form change does not require a held item
How to fix those origin forms.
With Dialga isn't too hard, just change it's ability from Preassure to Filter and give it Recover. I don't get why it doesn't have Recover honestly, since Arceus have it.
With Palkia is a lot harder, but as a start, change it's ability from Pressure to No Guard for no more miss of Hydro Pun and Spacial Rend, Then you could give it Nasty Plot for make it the only dragon uber with a way to get a +2. At last, change it's HP (90) with it's Atk (100) to make it a little more bulky. That wouldn't turn it into a centralizing threat, but at least could turn it into something a little viable. Maybe.
But if you truly wanted make them feel like the gods above every god that they are according to the lore...
Just make thier core items work the same as Pikachu's Light Ball.
Sad how the king of DPP Ubers is in a state like this
Great video! Really unfortunate that both of them were dead on arrival in ubers.
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As much as I like legends arceus, the origin forms are extremely disappointing, and feel kinda lazy. Their designs are dumb, and the only change to them is a 20 point stat change, and require an item to do so. Compared to Giratina’s orgin form, which greatly changes its stats and gives it a new ability, and especially towards primal Groudon and Kyogre, which greatly powered up these Pokémon and made them look cooler.
I also wish the legend plate was in S/V. Yeah, it would be banned to anything goes immediately, but it would still be fun.
Palkia-O's stat change is at least useable as every Speed point counts. Dialga-O is so bad it's unviable even in Ubers UU.
I feel like Gf hates gen 4 legends Idk why. These changes are non-existent they might as well not have an alternate form. I don't even know why they bother. I mean, the last straw for me was they still need to hold those items to maintain these garbage forms?! Talk about over-restriction. Do they really think they're going to be broken with this? 😂😂😂
@@TheOtherNeutrino Thing is that extra Speed is less than what a Choice Scarf is, so why would you bother with 20 points of base speed instead of a 50% boost? Yeah you get locked in, but rather that and out speed anything but other scarfs than get a tiny little 20 point boost and 20% boost to Dragon/Water moves when your SpA is already sitting at 150 lol
@@minmin8580Heatran?
I still think they should have gotten abilities that affected the field. Maybe both set up Trick Room when they switch in? Switching them in while Trick Room is already set up restores the dimensions to normal. Or maybe Dialga sets up Trick Room and Palkia sets up Gravity.
I think being introduced in Legends Arceus was a huge pitfall because there were no abilities in that game (minus Cherrim and Regigigas). So, you wouldn’t be able to deminstrate their abilities unless you transferred them into a game like Scarlet/Violet with abilities.
The point is, there was so much potential for the deities residing over space and time and it really feels like that aspect was completely overlooked.
Even worse is that the forme change modified their signature moves in PLA, but that didn't carry over.
(Roar became stronger but less accurate, and spacial rend lost some accuracy & power in exchange for getting an extra stage of higher crit chance)
Fantastic video, loved the editing u killed this. Definitely gonna go watch more this was fire
On the topic of the video though i do absolutely agree, it feels like both Origin forms are just sorta... three. Every possible roll they could fill on a team i feel like is done better by other mons in the tier
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Even with their Abilities aside, they should still give the Origin forms the same treatment thay got in P:LA:
• The Great Orbs (the Core, Globe, and Crystal names in Japanese) should be reverted to key items and function like the Reveal Glass. This frees up their held item slot and makes them way more versatile.
• Their signature moves should be altered from normal. In P:LA, Spacial Rend is a bit weaker, but has a higher crit rate (50% from the normal 12.5%) on Origin form Palkia, and Roar of Time and Shadow Force become more powerful, but a bit less accurate on Origin form Dialga and Giratina respectively.
• P:LA also makes Roar of Time and Shadow Force into one-turn attacks, which makes them so much more usable than the recharge/two turn variants they have now. I know P:LA's battle system is a bit different than the main line of games, but making Roar of Time into a 120/140 bp variant of Hammer Arm and Shadow Force into a slightly stronger Poltergeist shouldn't break the meta.
The bg music around 4:24…..it unlocked a memory for me is that bomberman music or am I off ?
kirby amazing mirror
Also compared to newer legendaries their signature moves are somewhat lacking.
Honestly Palkia-Origin would've been good in Ubers like one or two generations ago. It got power-crept by Gen 9's legendaries where it's speed isn't even that fast anymore and it doesn't hit as hard as Koraidon or Miraidon because of having a much worse ability.
“ubers uu” is hilarious
Palkia-O in Ubers: How am I outclassed in a limited dex?
Palkia-O in National Dex Ubers: Oh yeah. It’s all coming together.
Literally all the origin forms need is item access, gamefreak has no reason to restrict their item slots anymore. Let us have scarf origin Palkia gamefreak
Give 'em item slots, and abilities
They don't even have to be spectacular ones, just abilities that aren't goddamn Pressure.
Or an increase in +100 total stats as if it were a mega (it meets almost the same condition), I mean, why just be a distribution of the same total stats?
What's worse is their design. Dialga looks like he swallowed that huge pill like Mr Krabs.
That's the interesting part of their designs. Both of them had gems and those gems moved to where their signature moves would be executed.
Dialga looks like it couldn't roar with that gemstone there and Palkia straight up lost it's arms that it rends space with
@@peco595stop making excuses for awful designs no wonder why the newer games suck now
@@peco595I will never understand where that interpretation of his designs came from.I'm just saying that within the games they are perfectly capable of using their signature moves (they are even more powerful)
@@reneantoniorodriguezippoli7561 Ironically in game they're worse since they lose out on an item slot so while Palkia-O is faster normally it gets blitzed by Scarf Palkia, same goes for Dialga and how bulky it is as Dialga-O getting 20 SpD isn't anywhere close to the SpD that assault vest gives.
It's like they didn't even think how to set them apart from their originals lol
That's not even the worst part of Dialga-O's design for me. It's tail looks like a half-interested diamond butt plug, and I will never be able to see it as anything but(t) that.
In my case, I consider that the most disappointing thing about the origin forms is that they have normal abilities instead of new ones or that they have abilities that are related to the concepts of time, space and antimatter.
I always imagined giving them another pair of signature moves. For Dialga Time Stop which would cause every pokemon to flinch next turn. And for Palkia Spacial wave that would cause every single pokemon to switch out next turn.
palkia-o should have at the very least gotten access to calm mind
I think they should have gotten some unique ability like Brilliant Celestial for Dialga and Shining Celestial for Palkia.
Both give the effect of mold breaker plus:
Brilliant Celestial
Reduces all super effective damage by 1/4. So, instead of super effective moves being 2x powerful, they're 1.5x powerful.
Or
Trick room applies while on field. Cannot be turned off.
Or
It'd require a bit, but it gives either +1 or -1 to all its moves. You would be able to choose before battle. But this specific priority bracket gets inverted in trick room.
Shining Celestial
Hit fairies for neutral with dragon moves.
Or
All field effects get flipped. Entry hazards get swapped, as well as tailwind if available.
Or
All stat changes on the field (after entry hazards) become inverted.
I fully believe the reason they have Pressure as default is because their new forms were introduced in Legends Arceus, a game with no abilities (besides Flower Gift and Slow Start). When it came time to make them compatible with other games, they must have just... not been bothered to give them new abilities for their new forms...
Which is a shame, there is so much potential with new abilities for the origin forms of the Space and Time gods...
I used dialga Origin as a tank rocker at the start of their release in regular ubers, and it actually did an amazing job. It got rocks up every game and was able to take solid hits and respond with amazing damage. Unfortunately, as the tier developed, people started to understand how it worked and it lost a lot of what made it good. Giratana is a better wall/defogger/spin blocker, so it was important to use what dialga o had in its niche, which was rocks setting, power, and better coverage in addition to bulk.
Now that we have necrozma dm, it's unfortunately really outclassed. But there was a short period of time where it was very strong.
They give Kyurem Dragon Dance but not Garchomp...
They really need to take the time to rework Pressure and/or give some of the Pokemon that have it something else. The description makes it sound so intimidating but in practice it's anything but.
I thought this from the start their abilities should’ve been like a built in quick claw and bright powder to tie in with time and space. Dialga has a chance to “slow down time” and move first while palkia “teleports” to avoid an attack.
Would've been insane to see a new ability for Palkia and Dialga where they had ultimate control over space and time to their advantage, like automatically using wonder room or trick room for a single turn whenever it would make them move first/hit the opposing Pokemon's lower defensive stat. Probably a bit broken, but at least these Pokemon basically have to give up an item slot for it (and it could always remove from the buffs the origin forms and the globes currently give as a balancing factor). And when they're competing with other restricted Pokemon, priority moves and equally high defensive stats is fairly common.
i see some interesting ideas in the comments about what abilities could be given to Dialga and Palkia Origin. Maybe instead of having them hold an item for the 1.2x boost in stab moves, make it their ability and make it exclusive to the origin forms? this also frees up the item slot
Honestly, Palkia-O's biggest problem is that Miraidon and Koraidon exists.
The bikes being faster and their busted abilities enabling their destructive damage makes it difficult to ever consider using Palkia-O.
Eternatus, a top 3 mon in Gen 8, is also suffering from getting harassed by the bikes, but it is still quite good (A ranked) and it is another mon that acts as hard competition for Palkia-O.
This can be seen in NatDex Ubers, a tier with both Miraidon and Koraidon banned, Eternatus is a top 3 mon in that tier and Palkia-O is much better, sitting at B+ tier viability (was A-, but recent tier shift moved it), and would honestly be A tier if it weren't for Eternatus existing.
Flutter Mane is another thing that brings down Palkia-O; the mon is very good in normal Ubers thanks to its ability to check the bikes. It is another mon that greatly annoys Palkia-O. However in NatDex Ubers, Flutter Mane is not very good due to the bikes being banned (it was much better when Koraidon was legal in the tier), thus it is not a mon that Palkia-O has to worry about in that tier.
This would probably be beyond broken, but I had a funny idea for an ability Origin Dialga could have gotten. Time Stream: Every time Dialga attacks, the dimensions are warped so that dialga always moves before the targeted pokemon. So essentially if the opponent is faster than Dialga, it'll automatically set trick room, and if trick room is already set and the target is slower it gets rid of trick room instead. It would only activate on single target attacks, so if a status move is used or Dialga would hit multiple pokemon with an attack, then nothing happens.
Trick room affects all pokemon. It's stupidly complicated and wouldn't work as intended most of the time. It would be 100 times better if you just make it reversed After you. But it would be broken anyway
Dialga and Palkia’s origin forms should’ve gotten abilities that allow instant trick room and gravity setup, respectively, upon switching in. And Dialga-O should’ve had like 5 speed in conjunction with this. GF has already proven multiple times they don’t care about the ramifications of broken abilities, might as well give the literal gods of time and space a similarly fitting broken ability.
they should buff pressure to also give another effect like cant use berries or cant heal since pressure would imply they dont have the time to stop for a heal
Dialga-O is irredeemable, but Palkia-O at LEAST has a niche as a middle bastard child between choice scarf and choice specs, minus the choice.
It's probably worse than Palkia with an actually good item, but has niche use cases where it's exactly what the team needs.
Unfortunately, it's still *just* Palkia, and Palkia has been an active liability in Ubers since gen 6 unless you pair it with Shedinja to parry Xern, and even then it was just "okay"
I didn't even know they were restricted to their respective items.
Thunderstandable why badge now.
Just give dialga trick room and that’s all the setup you’ll ever need. If it doesn’t flat out ko a few Pokémon it will do a huge chunk of their hp.
I believe it’s most effective and underlooked it way to use it is as a bulky trick room sweeper
Give Dialga-O Regenerator and Palkia-O a Trick Room Ability like Primordial Sea/Desolate Land.
Watch them go from UbUU to the top of Ub or even AG.
Oh I hear this. They don’t actually feel distinctive, more like a slight respec
Just give new abilities
Dialga-O gets priority on Roar of Time and doesn't have to recharge.
Palkia-O ignores entry hazards and gets a 20% accuracy boost to all moves.
Strong abilities for sure but there would still be good counterplay for both.
Steel types would wall Dialga as you wouldn't want to switch in a fairy due to Dialga's own steel type, something like Zamazenta would be the perfect counter.
Palkia would definitely get strong due to Hydro Pump, Spatial Rend, Draco, etc. would be 100% accurate but it would lose to any strong scarf mon or something crazy like specs Miraidon/Flutter Mane or banded Koraidon/Crowned-Zacian.
My biggest disappointment with these guys is the lack of a new ability. Why did Giratina get a new ability with his form, but not the others? Since they have retroactively updated abilities in gen 9, there's still hope that they give Palkia/Dialga new abilities.
I think being overly optimistic, but I have a feeling in the next games they’ll get some love.. there special animations are missing as well from SV. It maybe had something to do with different teams working on the games on different time lines so next games may catch up 😅
Dialga O losing 20 attack is also an even greater down side than it seems cuz Dialga mostly runs mixed sets with Draco meteor and Heavy slam but with less attack those sets are way less viable
Dialga-Origin should do fine in Trick Room but that's more consistent in Doubles, poor Palkia took the L as it was Caly-Ice's fav partner to check it's weaknesses, still stuck in Doubles as well.
They should have buffed the orbs. Each orb should have had a different effect that only applies to them. I woud suggest the following:
Griseous: covert cloak boots or one time power herb (once per game you keep the item for shadow force)
Adamant: Leftovers, shell bell or one time sitrus berry
Lustrous: Expert belt or scope lens (to combo with spacial rend)
how about a 1.3x boost to a respective stat (could be defense for dialga, special defense for palkia and attack/spa for giratina) aswell as stacking with the original effects on dialga and palkia
@@sheeplol2161Or do the Ogerpon route where every move is boosted by 1.2, maybe even 1.3 since the more recent legends got some broken ass abilities.
Dialga and Palkia's Origin Formes really just need Levitate instead of Pressure to match Giratina and Calm Mind as a boosting move for both forms to use. I will never shut up about that. An even bulkier but somewhat weaker stat spread like this for Dialga kinda like how Giratina switches from defense to offense would probably make it better too.
100 HP
100 Attack
150 Defense
120 Sp. Atk
120 Sp. Def
90 Speed
680 BST
Dialga-O with Filter and Palkia-O with Dazzling would have been thematically fitting if you extrapolate it far enough and unfathomably based in Singles/Doubles
also the Great Timespace Orbs being made into Held Items is just. why. they were so close to being free. they already WERE in BDSP. it is cowardice of the highest order.
i normally run steel beam roar of time earth power and thunder wave with my dialga and its nice cause it can counter calyrex shadow like lets say one of ur mons gets hit then send this guy out and it tanks a 1.5x SpA astral barrage while ur dialga can thunder wave or roar of time
How does Palkia spacial rend with no arms?
As shown in PLA, it comes out of the "fake" arceus ring it has.
I don't even see the similarities to Giratina Origin at all so I don't know why I would even try to build it like Giratina-Origin.
I like the Kirby music
cuz they aint got Giratina-O's badassery and swag.
Why use Dialga-O when Archaludon is in the exact same tier?
At least they have seen major use in the TCG
if i had a nickel for every time legends arceus has introduced a new dragon/steel type alternate form with primarily defensive stats and a mostly offensive, lacking-in-utility movepool that leaves it with kneecapped viability...
As you can see, there's a very good reason these are the origin forms and not the current ones.
if you know your pokemon is going to faint recharge moves are useable and on slaking back in gen 3 hyper beam was always its best move and gen 4 after giga impact and in slackings case it often outsped
GIVE PALKIA-O STORM DRAIN
Telepathy with bellibolt is a kick ass trick room team dragon pulse earth power flash cannon and protect for some bait and stall I Don't mind dialga at all
They should go back to legends style key item form change for the creation trio
All three origin forms need a new signature ability thats useful competitively. Pressure and levitate are just mid.
dialga should get an ability that "reverses" time after a few turns and heals the party with a little bit of HP (Temporal reverse)
Palkia should have an area effect like dark aura or victory star. Based on the fact that its based on space. (Celestial Zone)
Giratina should get neutralizing gas but called (Anti-matter)
They failed miserably in their design
The fact I can’t tell if you mean character design or gameplay design is hilarious
I quite like their design. Both of seem punished, with Palkia having no arms to rend and Dialga's throat being blocked so it can't roar. Guess Arceus had to remind them who the the big G is
@@kingambitreal I feel like the concept of them being punished would've worked better if they looked like withered versions of their original forms, like Palkia having ripped wings, Dialga having jagged spikes and their crystals being cracked
The origin forms of Dialga and Palkia are the embodiments of everything wrong with the (d)evolution of Pokemon design philosophy.
Hot take but I don’t think palkia missing arms is the end of the world.
Dialga is the one that got screwed over.
Dialga being the god of time but having such low speed is still kinda baffling to me 😭😊
Dialga Origin really is a nothing Mon. We got robbed of an official Primal Dialga.
If they got Levitate, it would’ve been a different story.
Palkia would’ve been fine in like, last gen, and probably top tier back in 7. Speed creep has been absurd recently. As for Dialga… man, am I allowed to compare it to Doom Syndicate? Cause I’m seeing multiple similarities.
If only the origin forms were given the same treatment as primals.
I feel like if they did not have to stuck with their item they would be much better.
body press and iron defense works well.
Both would be decent if they required key items to transform, rather than holding an item
let me tell you if palkia o and dialgia had a change there main ability like giratina o which was a new ability that function with the setting down of trick room and gravity, that'll make there usage sky rocket. also be nice if they had are rework in ther design cause it not vutting it compared to giratina o
Basically, Gen 4 legendaries got screwed over while Gen 3 starters got w*nked to oblivion.
@@jaretco6423 In game, yes. In lore, no. They got w*nked for no reason.
@@jaretco6423 Ah yes because Groudon, Kyogre and Rayquaza are not broken themselves or anything. You sound like a gen 3 stan.
Dialga-O should have had filter and more minmaxed stats
It's like Gamefreak is too scared to make them strong, so they settle for mediocrity.... Poor Lugia still over here losing Toxic and still not learning Stored power
Fixing Palkia would be easy.... Speed Boost and Calm mind would make it dangerous and fast... lorewise it makes sense for the pokemon that controls spacial dimensions would be able to use this to go fast
Dialga conversely would get Regenerator and Spikes... it can turn back time and it's partly made of metal...
Spacial rend and Roar of time could also be changed.... Spacial Rend swapping accuracy and power, and getting a passive Infiltrator effect letting it bypass Screens and Substitute, Roar of Time changing from a Hyper Beam clone to a Doom Desire clone
these origin forms were a mistake, the only good thing they did are those vstar gold cards
They put them in the no battle game even if they were good it will take a awhile
Their designers let them down
I honestly feel like the Origin forms for Dialga and Palkia were rushed. The odd choice of only increasing one stat, and no new ability or even unique move for the form is very telling.
Dialga origin has bad ability but op special atk and special def
His stats should’ve been 120 hp as well n give cosmic power and recover n we good
For dialga
Give both scale shot n dragon dance n make pallia special attack 170
I thought palkia could be decent with that speed… but Miraidon lol
I thought palkia could get Telepathy HA
Their boss fights also sucked. The Arceus fight made them look like absolute cakewalk. Just wanted to bring that up
Honestly they should have just been mega forms. You could have worked it out pretty easily with all three. Just swapping around a few stats and losing an item slot sucks
Weather trio > creation trio
Charizard > everyone
If they have their own abilities like
Palkia
Spatial Dominion
All moves will never miss and grants immunity to all field moves also include trick room.
Dialga
Temporal Dominion
When entry slow every Pokemon on the field and move first before the opponent it like 1+ priority