"A bowl is most useful when it is empty" line is about versatility. If you have an empty bowl, it can be used for an "infinite" amount of things. When it is full, it can be used for only that "one" purpose. Hence, "most" as you said.
but also paradoxically its infinite possibility is also its downfall as its lack of actual application means it is also not useful at the time. When the bowl is empty it can be used for any number of things, but only by filling it which means that the useful part is now no longer the empty bowl but the filled one. The empty bowl is actually functionally useless. I think the line in context refered to the bowl as a metaphor for the mind and was used to encourage an empty space for free thought not limited by the confines of reality which was a very distinctly Confucian idea that expanded to the greater part of Chinese philosophy. I personally take some issue with how that came to be interpreted as I think what Confucius was trying to get at was that "it is best to look at things neutrally and observe them in a vacumn before trying to apply them to the greater world" but the ultimate interpretation seems to be a general rule of passivity to the world and it's goings on which has paved the way for untold numbers of unnecessary death for a people that have been ingrained to believe that the world acts on a will that they can neither influence or deserve to act upon. It's kind of sad really.
@@joshbod2663, Thank you! That which is understood, need not be explained. I didn't want to go as deep as you did. But, I feel you. If we have 3 dimensions of view, why do we only use 1?
I think it is a play on different martial arts movies which use the "empty your bowl" scene to make the protagonist forget what he thinks to know about fighting (cliches, bias, "I only need to learn the move XYZ to beat everyone"), so his master can teach im everything starting with the basics, i.e. "the real thing". First movie which comes to mind is Forbidden Kingdom with Jackie Chan, where he tells is student to "empty his cup" because the student thinks he already knows everything about kung-fu.
it's not so much missing it.. it is a weak line because not only would the third reich have happened without nietzsche, also nietzsche was actually opposed to the nationalists but his work was taken and representented completly out of contexts by the political right.
@@MrGustavevil well, yes and no. I was unaware of Nietzsche was opposed to it, but overall I just liked the line and almost every reactor I've seen watch this battle miss it
I feel as if a lot of people are to unfamiliar with Nietzsche's life to interpret that line. Also, to whoever talked about his work being taken out of context. Ehhhh, it has less to do with that and more to do with his sister straight altering his work after his mental state fell into disarray.
@@leonmorte7241 if confucious confuses the confused then philosophy is not for them I just realized today this episode says what is winning instead of who won
And this is why I love talking philosophy with friends. You can just go in circles for hours, but still have fun and be slightly more mentally awakened afterward. xD
Yo, Doc, if you read this, Zach is the one playing Voltare in this, you'll probably recognize him from some other battles. He's been writing these with Peter and Lloyd from like the middle of Season 1 I believe, maybe from the start, I don't remember. A lot of the complicated rhyme schemes and references are from him, and I think Peter and Lloyd would even say that he's the best bar writer of the three
The only bit you really missed, like most reactors was the “hangs with B. Franks” line as he was one of the philosophers who spent a lot of time with Benjamin Franklin when he went to France to try and secure aid in their independence war with the British.
How do you know he missed that? He didn’t specifically point it out but why we stop the vid and give that line so much credit if he didn’t understand parts of it lmao
The "get out the way" line was also referencing Lao Tzu's book (Tao te Ching) and philosophical movement (Taoism). Tao te Ching roughly translates to the "the Way of living" or "way of virtue" making the philosophical movement basically called "the WAY". BTW, you're not too far off with the whole bowl analysis from that book but it wasn't just about physical bowls. It is also about the fullness or emptiness of your mind.
Well it’s a metaphor so it reflects both the physical and philosophical. Both bowls would be most useful when empty because you are able to fill them with whatever you want.
The bowl metaphor is part of Eastern Philosophy. Basically, if a bowl is already full you can't fill it with something else, you need to empty it first before it can be filled again. Likewise, if you want to fill your mind with new ideas you must first learn to get rid of old prejudices and assumptions, as they limit how much you can learn.
It's worth noting that Nietzsche says "THEY call me 'Ubermensch'..." It's an accurate reference because, despite coining the term in his first book, he said he didn't fit the definition himself. They might call him Ubermensch, but he wouldn't say it about himself.
Frederick Nietzsche was German and the word Übermensch actually means Superman / superhuman. You’re looking to deep into the word Uber because of the driving service. Basically Nietzsche wrote a book and in it he claimed that the Übermensch should be a set goal for humanity to eventually reach.
Herbert Huttanus Herbert Huttanus absolutely not and anyone who thinks otherwise is dumber than a box of rocks. Btw a pun is a play on words due to certain words having similar sounds and multiple meanings not a figure of speech that can be understood in two different ways. That’d be a double entendre. Example of a pun ; “What happens to chemists when they die? We Barium”. Example of a Double-Entendre; “What is the difference between ignorance and apathy? I don’t know and I don’t care”. “Call me Übermensch, cause I’m so driven” NicePeter playing Nietzsche is literally saying “call me Superman cause I’m relentless compelled by the need to accomplish a goal/very hard working and ambitious. There is zero reference points to the driving service known as Uber aside from the entire word Übermensch.
@@chrisdirker8715 Good point on the difference between a pun and a double entendre. Clearly double entendre would have been the better descriptor although the two are not mutually exclusive depending on the definition of pun that you are using. My bad. However, I'm not completely convinced that they didn't have the Uber meaning in mind as well. It's hard to know and I'm not going to simply take your word for it. I don't think someone would be "dumber than a box of rocks" to think it is possible. It's well within ERB's style. Maybe they did, maybe they didn't. Even if they didn't, I think there is a certain amount of added entertainment value for those that drew that connection themselves. I myself didn't the first time through. I thought the Ubermensch line was good with even the one meaning. I'm not trying to be judgy or confrontational, I'm just curious why you think the second meaning wasn't intentional. Maybe you're right. Can you elaborate?
Zach Sherwin and Epic Lloyd actually have a rap career. Lloyd only released an EP and a rap series on his TH-cam channel which is pretty interesting called Dis Raps for Hire. Sherwin released a couple albums and has some good lyricism. His best song lyrically is Switchitup but not a lot of his stuff is that interesting to react to. Dis Raps are more worthy though.
If I learned about historical figures like this as a kid, I would have learned far more because I would have been more involved! I can't tell you how many times I have looked up and read about these figures so that I could understand the rap better! Keep killin it ERB!
You didn't get that get out the way line it was double meaning Lao's philosphy was Tao In Tao philosophy you can see he is talking about following "the Way"
Here is the bowl passage from the Tao te Ching: 11 Thirty spokes join together in the hub. It is because of what is not there that the cart is useful. Clay is formed into a vessel. It is because of its emptiness that the vessel is useful. Cut doors and windows to make a room. It is because of its emptiness that the room is useful. Therefore, what is present is used for profit. But it is in absence that there is usefulness
Thank you, someone needed to quote the Tao Te Ching to explain how this line is great and makes sense as this is a cornerstone part of the daoist philosophy.
However, a empty bowl is only really useful if you need it for something. Otherwise the bowl just sit's there empty. A bowl that is filled with something, even if you don't currently need what it is filled with for anything, remains in use holding whatever is in it. Therefore, a filled bowl is always in use and a empty bowl is useless until you need to use it. Have fun with that!
if that bowl is filled with something and someone needs it, and its filled with something important what will you do? ignore the plead for help to keep that bowl filled or throw away what is inside that bowl to help you fellow human?
I think this refers to the parable of the tea cup. No more tea (knowledge) can be poured in, if you do not empty it first. So, a teacup is most useful when it is empty.
But the bowl is still the most useful when it is empty...... even if u dont need it. If it´s filled it has just one use and u also need to empty it before using it again, empty bowl has technically infinite uses.
As a philosophy study myself this is one of my favorite rap battles because it is magnificently written. I love seeing you get caught on Lao Tzu's bowl line too, reminds me philosophy is a topic everybody can dabble in without even knowing it, how seriously and deeply we take it is the difference between the everyday person and the scholar.
I've never seen anybody acknowledge it, but it's my favourite line in the whole battle: (To Nietzsche) "You tried to plant a new German psyche, but you just grew hate. Me no Third Reichy." Fucking genius!
"East infections' was also a reference to the fact a lot of epidemics have come out of Asia ie the antonine plague, smallpox, the Black Death and Covid-19.
Lets do ourselfs some Philosophy. Why is a bowl most useful when it is empty? An empty bowl posses an near infinite amount of thing it can be filled up with. So there are almost infinite possible uses for the bowl. When it is filled with something it is still useful. But it's only useful for one thing. Holding the thing that's already in it. So it has near infinite possibilities of usage versus one way of using it. So it is more useful when it is empty.
And as always, eastern philosophy is full of those little examples on simple objects like a bowl, to drop some badass golden rules like "be as the bowl, empty, available for whatever the fuck comes ahead". They're just geniuses.
Oh the irony in him confusing himself on something from Lao Tzu on a video about Western vs Eastern philosophers..there is just something classic about that.
Personally I thought the "Western Medicine on these East Infections" is referencing the various viruses that breaks out in Asia like SARS, Bird Flu, Coronavirus etc...
2:45 - I hadn't caught the "East Infections"/"Yeast Infections" thing until you pointed it out. Of course now, "East Infections" makes us think of Covid-19, but the ERB people couldn''t have known that when they were writing this.
A bowl is much less useful when it is full because it has BEEN used. The contents are useful; the bowl cannot be used again. It is "in use". It can only be used when it is not YET full. :)
@@docrich And, of course, the whole thing is just a metaphor for keeping your options open. Once you have acted you cannot REact. Once your bowl is full you have no room for anything else. Lao Tzu is known for these sorts of dense multi-layered metaphors. Thus why he needs to "say some shit that makes some sense." He said things like, "A good traveler has no fixed plans, and is not intent on arriving. " Because one who is in a hurry to get somewhere is not expending their effort on traveling well. It is merely a transitory state to where they want to be. A good *traveler* is focused on travel.
To help with the useful bowl questions When a bowl is full it has one use; holding what its full with When it is empty it can be used for a veriety of things; fill it with something else, Use it to dig a hold in dirt, Throw it as a weapon, Etc.etc.etc It's new and more variesd possabile uses mean it is MORE usefull than if it was only being used for the one task of holding something
The "bowl is . . . is empty" line is drawn on Lao Tzu's philosophy Taoism, in which that is a key point in the philosophy itself. An easy read to understand is "The Tao of Pooh" in which someone uses Winnie the Pooh to explain Taoism. It's also an audio book if its useful.
A bowl is most useful when it is empty because it has the potential to be used for many different things when empty but when it has something in it it only has one use.
The picking apart your “Wu” with my method man is deeper than you think. Yes it refers to the Wu Tang Clan but in the book “The Art of War” Sun Tzu was the make the commander of a much smaller force to defend against the army from the land of Wu. He picked apart the army using unconventional methods at the time that allowed his forces that were outnumbered 6 to 1 to defeat the army of Wu. Hence the “method, man” bar to be another double. Hands down one of the dirtiest lines in this battle.
That Beef franks bit was sick. Made me kinda think that rapping and poker have one thing in common. Using the same word for two different meanings in their verses is a pair of whatever, while using the same (roughly) words for four different meanings is like getting four of a kind. A pair is fair in points, but four of a kind is way greater. And a bowl that is filled with something is being used and therefore useful but for a specific purpose based on the contents. An empty bowl has the potential for many different uses, even if it isn't being used at the moment. So yeah, Lao Tzu made sense.
When he was talking about the bowl being most useful when empty I think he said it didn’t make sense in terms of what context did it have to turning the western philosophers on each other
I'd totally missed the point of "East Infections/Yeast Infections" although I'm pretty sure I got "method, man". Wasn't there something in philosophy about "Man and Method"?
@@stuisp It's a double reference: Socrates's method is his most famous contribution to philosophy, a method of argument to pick apart the opposing position by asking questions, and also a reference to Method Man, a rapper from the Wu-Tang clan, since Sun Tzu's family name is Wu. I love this battle, because even if you think that you got the line, you probably *still* missed something.
So the way I see it, a bowl has the most potential use when it is empty. But a bowl that is never used is a bowl without value. So it's worth depends on whether you believe that preparation (empty bowl) or functionality (bowl in use) is the more worthwhile trait.
A bowl is useful when it is full and empty. Its is usfull to putting thing in when empty but is also useful when its full so you can transport things lime your cereal with milk in it
When a bowl is full, it currently has one use. When it is empty it has potentially infinite uses, that's what he's saying literally. Figuratively he's saying you are the bowl, dont just have one use/idea, be creative and live with potentially infinite possibilities
Well when it's full it's most useful in the sense as it's used in it's most capacity when it's empty, it's most useful to use with anything else. I think most empty is technically still the most useful.
The idea of a bowl being most useful when it is empty is the idea that you can fill it with anything, but when it's full, even if it's still useful for holding what's already in it, it's not able to be filled with anything else. It's a metaphor for learning, essentially. When you're a child, your potential is limitless since you have so much space in your mind still, and so much room to grow. But once you've filled your mind, you're limited to whatever you can apply what you've learned in life to.
There are so many subliminal hits in this battle that it's hard to compile them all. One of their best fo Sho! But bruh, you NEED to check out Dis Raps For Hire by Epic Lloyd. He serves rap justice to real life bullies at the request of the ppl they have bullied
@about the 9:00 mark Love how much you dug that word play. You should check out Zach Sherwin's stuff outside of ERB. His independent work is pretty corny, but his word play is on a whole other level. Some of the cleverest shit I've ever heard
I lived in Korea for nearly 4 years. Yes respect and honor are much more important in the east. Not paying respect will get you cat out of many places, age and wisdom are not to be offended over there.
Let me be frank=honest Don’t start beef with the frank=Frenchman Who hangs with B. Franks=Benjamin Franklin Giving ladies Beef franks=he was supposedly a great lover
These philosophers are all worth reading, especially Sun Tzu with the commentaries from other Chinese generals discussing real life applications of his rules.
Ey, if you wanna check out some of their stuff, Zach, who writes these with them and plays characters some times, has a lot of good raps on his two channels, "Zach Sherwin" and the one he used before that "MC Mr Napkins". Check out "The Letter C - Zach Sherwin" or "Pro/Con - MC Mr Napkins", they're really good. There's been some reactors who check out EpicLloyd's solo stuff, but no one ever does any of Zach's
EpicLloyd has done solo rapping in his serie named DissRapForHire. I think there are two seasons. I think you would enjoy reacting to these. Like so he can see!
A full Bowl is fully used, but not useful. Usefullness is determined, by how much you can use it or for how many Things you can use it for. A full Bowl can Always only be used for 1 Thing. Making it empty again. But when it is empty, you can fill it with all Kinds of Things. So yes, a Bowl is most useful, when it is empty.
*Looks at comments from other reactions* *looks at these comments* I didn't notice but when i watched it I some how learn more history and when I was asked I wondered how I know these things I've Never even heard of before
It depends on your context and needs... A bowl has more potential for being useful in general when it is empty, but if you have a specific need, like hunger or something, it would be more useful if there was at least some of what you need in it, like food... I dunno, it's a good point that it can be more useful if empty, but I don't think that's true all of the time.
You took the "A bowl is most useful when it's empty" too literally. I think he mean they've have to be "empty" of human passions (like, for example, Buddha teachs), so they've not to get anger, or violent, too (by attacking the westerns), to take full controll of their lives. I THINK the real meaning of that sentence was something like that. Then Sun Tzu get angry, because they're here to battle, and he think that was the point to become aggressive to definitely win against the westerns, so he just mocks Lao Tsu with "Grrrr! Try to fullfill your bowl with some shits that makes some sense!"
Wrong. The lesson is in versatility and potential. You went way off on an irrelevant tangent. Edit: If the reference was supposed to be to the soul or some other vague abstract, then it should have been noted.
@@jaspinirving1007 Good to know you have the Truth about everything written on a small piece of paper, that you always carry in your pocket. I was just trying to exprime my thoughts on that obscure sentence, but your self-confidence absolutely persuaded me I was wrong. Edit: You know very little about philosophes, if you think that they don't subtend something, when they're speeching, and they just HAVE TO make it clear what they're talking about.
Actually..it's pretty simple. If a bowl is full, you can't put anything else in it but if it's empty you can put whatever you want to put in that bowl. Simply saying that you need to be humble and willing to accept new thoughts and suggestions from others. If ur too pride, you are like a full bowl which can't put anything in anymore. I'm a Chinese and this is what our teacher and textbook told me. But philosophy is philosophy, you can understand it in your own ways. Peace out.
And ur right, the jacky chen is a general so mess his enemy's up and defeat them is what that make sense to him. That's why he want's Lao to fill his bowl with shit that make some "sense" causy it's a perfect time to defeat them western philosophers and yet Lao till him not to be proud.
"A bowl is most useful when it's empty" just means that you can have a variety of things in the bowl. If you have a bowl full of water, but you need to hold say soup, you'd empty the bowl to fill it with soup. So no matter what, the empty bowl is the most useful. It's basically a saying that describes having options.
Another thing is the different way each philosopher looks at things. Nietzsche, actually didn't like Socrates so them being antagonistic is normal. That's what Sun was attacking as he knew that Nietzsche wouldn't actually appreciate being called a disciple of Socrates. Socrates is the father of ethics so he's offended by Voltaire who cheated at a lottery once. Sun Tzu wouldn't approach the Bowl line the same was a Lao Tzu because he's a military strategist, thus his approach is much more direct and goal oriented. Confucius on the other hand is basically the Socrates of China, the first Chinese philosopher, and therefore he considers the Tzus to be "weak rookies" also, MC Jin I think is undefeated in his pro battles.
In the Eastern country we are more strict on respect on the elderly and the thing abt decendence is bcz we Chinese believe that the most important thing to a man is to continue his family name that also mean to must have a son.
"A bowl is most useful when it is empty" line is about versatility. If you have an empty bowl, it can be used for an "infinite" amount of things. When it is full, it can be used for only that "one" purpose. Hence, "most" as you said.
but also paradoxically its infinite possibility is also its downfall as its lack of actual application means it is also not useful at the time. When the bowl is empty it can be used for any number of things, but only by filling it which means that the useful part is now no longer the empty bowl but the filled one. The empty bowl is actually functionally useless. I think the line in context refered to the bowl as a metaphor for the mind and was used to encourage an empty space for free thought not limited by the confines of reality which was a very distinctly Confucian idea that expanded to the greater part of Chinese philosophy. I personally take some issue with how that came to be interpreted as I think what Confucius was trying to get at was that "it is best to look at things neutrally and observe them in a vacumn before trying to apply them to the greater world" but the ultimate interpretation seems to be a general rule of passivity to the world and it's goings on which has paved the way for untold numbers of unnecessary death for a people that have been ingrained to believe that the world acts on a will that they can neither influence or deserve to act upon. It's kind of sad really.
@@joshbod2663, Thank you! That which is understood, need not be explained. I didn't want to go as deep as you did. But, I feel you. If we have 3 dimensions of view, why do we only use 1?
I think it is a play on different martial arts movies which use the "empty your bowl" scene to make the protagonist forget what he thinks to know about fighting (cliches, bias, "I only need to learn the move XYZ to beat everyone"), so his master can teach im everything starting with the basics, i.e. "the real thing". First movie which comes to mind is Forbidden Kingdom with Jackie Chan, where he tells is student to "empty his cup" because the student thinks he already knows everything about kung-fu.
@@joshbod2663 confucious didnt have that line
@@joshbod2663 And this, ladies and gentlemen...is the beauty of philosophy. xD
I have to wonder how many people missed the whole "Third Reichy" line when Confucius dissed Nietzsche
True
it's not so much missing it.. it is a weak line because not only would the third reich have happened without nietzsche, also nietzsche was actually opposed to the nationalists but his work was taken and representented completly out of contexts by the political right.
I think he means miss the fact that is an 'engrish' joke. No reichy instead on no likey.
@@MrGustavevil well, yes and no. I was unaware of Nietzsche was opposed to it, but overall I just liked the line and almost every reactor I've seen watch this battle miss it
I feel as if a lot of people are to unfamiliar with Nietzsche's life to interpret that line. Also, to whoever talked about his work being taken out of context. Ehhhh, it has less to do with that and more to do with his sister straight altering his work after his mental state fell into disarray.
"I guess it depends on how you look at it now that I'm thinking about it" -- Welcome to philosophy!
Confused? That's the point!
@@leonmorte7241 if confucious confuses the confused then philosophy is not for them
I just realized today this episode says what is winning instead of who won
And this is why I love talking philosophy with friends. You can just go in circles for hours, but still have fun and be slightly more mentally awakened afterward. xD
That was what I was thinking when went off on that thought.
Why don't you give any credit to Zach? He's every bit the genius Lloyd and Peter are. He's one of the main writers for ERB
Zach's my favorite, but he doesn't give credit because he just doesn't know, you know?
@@iii2524 he watches behind the scenes tho?
Yo, Doc, if you read this, Zach is the one playing Voltare in this, you'll probably recognize him from some other battles. He's been writing these with Peter and Lloyd from like the middle of Season 1 I believe, maybe from the start, I don't remember. A lot of the complicated rhyme schemes and references are from him, and I think Peter and Lloyd would even say that he's the best bar writer of the three
Btw Doc big fan. Didn't mean no disrespect
I love Zach. Hes always so good
The only bit you really missed, like most reactors was the “hangs with B. Franks” line as he was one of the philosophers who spent a lot of time with Benjamin Franklin when he went to France to try and secure aid in their independence war with the British.
StarmanNWC, Thank you! I could never figure out the "B. Franks" bit! :-)
They were also in a secret sex cult together hence the beef franks line
Quixotic1018 with each other or girls?
@@coolthefool1 girls of course
How do you know he missed that? He didn’t specifically point it out but why we stop the vid and give that line so much credit if he didn’t understand parts of it lmao
The "get out the way" line was also referencing Lao Tzu's book (Tao te Ching) and philosophical movement (Taoism). Tao te Ching roughly translates to the "the Way of living" or "way of virtue" making the philosophical movement basically called "the WAY". BTW, you're not too far off with the whole bowl analysis from that book but it wasn't just about physical bowls. It is also about the fullness or emptiness of your mind.
Well it’s a metaphor so it reflects both the physical and philosophical. Both bowls would be most useful when empty because you are able to fill them with whatever you want.
Voltaire - Zach Sherwin is a Legend his flow and the lyrical creativity he has is 2nd to none.
What about Watsky?
@@thcu They're both amazing in different ways.
Sherwin's Alexander the Great is monstrous.
@@3Rayfire In what sense?
@@hewhopaintstheearthred6139 Speed, syllable, complexity, bars. As terrifying to face on the mic as Alexander was on the battlefield.
The bowl metaphor is part of Eastern Philosophy. Basically, if a bowl is already full you can't fill it with something else, you need to empty it first before it can be filled again.
Likewise, if you want to fill your mind with new ideas you must first learn to get rid of old prejudices and assumptions, as they limit how much you can learn.
It's worth noting that Nietzsche says "THEY call me 'Ubermensch'..." It's an accurate reference because, despite coining the term in his first book, he said he didn't fit the definition himself. They might call him Ubermensch, but he wouldn't say it about himself.
Frederick Nietzsche was German and the word Übermensch actually means Superman / superhuman. You’re looking to deep into the word Uber because of the driving service. Basically Nietzsche wrote a book and in it he claimed that the Übermensch should be a set goal for humanity to eventually reach.
Yes, but the "I'm so driven" frase makes the Uber connection work too :)
m6tleja no it doesn’t cause the driving company Uber is not what’s being intended.
@@chrisdirker8715 It's a pun. It's referencing both meanings simultaneously. That's the point.
Herbert Huttanus Herbert Huttanus absolutely not and anyone who thinks otherwise is dumber than a box of rocks. Btw a pun is a play on words due to certain words having similar sounds and multiple meanings not a figure of speech that can be understood in two different ways. That’d be a double entendre. Example of a pun ; “What happens to chemists when they die? We Barium”. Example of a Double-Entendre; “What is the difference between ignorance and apathy? I don’t know and I don’t care”. “Call me Übermensch, cause I’m so driven” NicePeter playing Nietzsche is literally saying “call me Superman cause I’m relentless compelled by the need to accomplish a goal/very hard working and ambitious. There is zero reference points to the driving service known as Uber aside from the entire word Übermensch.
@@chrisdirker8715 Good point on the difference between a pun and a double entendre. Clearly double entendre would have been the better descriptor although the two are not mutually exclusive depending on the definition of pun that you are using. My bad. However, I'm not completely convinced that they didn't have the Uber meaning in mind as well. It's hard to know and I'm not going to simply take your word for it. I don't think someone would be "dumber than a box of rocks" to think it is possible. It's well within ERB's style. Maybe they did, maybe they didn't. Even if they didn't, I think there is a certain amount of added entertainment value for those that drew that connection themselves. I myself didn't the first time through. I thought the Ubermensch line was good with even the one meaning. I'm not trying to be judgy or confrontational, I'm just curious why you think the second meaning wasn't intentional. Maybe you're right. Can you elaborate?
Zach Sherwin and Epic Lloyd actually have a rap career. Lloyd only released an EP and a rap series on his TH-cam channel which is pretty interesting called Dis Raps for Hire. Sherwin released a couple albums and has some good lyricism. His best song lyrically is Switchitup but not a lot of his stuff is that interesting to react to. Dis Raps are more worthy though.
I liked that you basically dissect every battle unlike other reactors that miss alot of gold lines. Subbed!
If I learned about historical figures like this as a kid, I would have learned far more because I would have been more involved! I can't tell you how many times I have looked up and read about these figures so that I could understand the rap better! Keep killin it ERB!
You didn't get that get out the way line
it was double meaning
Lao's philosphy was Tao
In Tao philosophy you can see he is talking about following "the Way"
...
DO YOU KNOW DA WAY
A empty bowl is most useful because its got unlimited potential uses where as a full bowl had only one use: holding what's already in it
Here is the bowl passage from the Tao te Ching:
11
Thirty spokes join together in the hub.
It is because of what is not there that the cart is useful.
Clay is formed into a vessel.
It is because of its emptiness that the vessel is useful.
Cut doors and windows to make a room.
It is because of its emptiness that the room is useful.
Therefore, what is present is used for profit.
But it is in absence that there is usefulness
Thank you, someone needed to quote the Tao Te Ching to explain how this line is great and makes sense as this is a cornerstone part of the daoist philosophy.
However, a empty bowl is only really useful if you need it for something. Otherwise the bowl just sit's there empty. A bowl that is filled with something, even if you don't currently need what it is filled with for anything, remains in use holding whatever is in it. Therefore, a filled bowl is always in use and a empty bowl is useless until you need to use it.
Have fun with that!
if that bowl is filled with something and someone needs it, and its filled with something important what will you do? ignore the plead for help to keep that bowl filled or throw away what is inside that bowl to help you fellow human?
I think this refers to the parable of the tea cup. No more tea (knowledge) can be poured in, if you do not empty it first. So, a teacup is most useful when it is empty.
But the bowl is still the most useful when it is empty...... even if u dont need it. If it´s filled it has just one use and u also need to empty it before using it again, empty bowl has technically infinite uses.
As a philosophy study myself this is one of my favorite rap battles because it is magnificently written. I love seeing you get caught on Lao Tzu's bowl line too, reminds me philosophy is a topic everybody can dabble in without even knowing it, how seriously and deeply we take it is the difference between the everyday person and the scholar.
That frank wordplay/setup/multisyllabic rhyme scheme whatever u wanna call it was one of the best lines in this erb video 😁😁😁
Finally, someone reacted to the "respect" line!
I've never seen anybody acknowledge it, but it's my favourite line in the whole battle:
(To Nietzsche) "You tried to plant a new German psyche, but you just grew hate. Me no Third Reichy."
Fucking genius!
“White boys getting burned, ‘cause guess what, now the Sun’s out.” Is a really impressive double entendre.
"East infections' was also a reference to the fact a lot of epidemics have come out of Asia ie the antonine plague, smallpox, the Black Death and Covid-19.
Lets do ourselfs some Philosophy. Why is a bowl most useful when it is empty? An empty bowl posses an near infinite amount of thing it can be filled up with. So there are almost infinite possible uses for the bowl. When it is filled with something it is still useful. But it's only useful for one thing. Holding the thing that's already in it. So it has near infinite possibilities of usage versus one way of using it. So it is more useful when it is empty.
And as always, eastern philosophy is full of those little examples on simple objects like a bowl, to drop some badass golden rules like "be as the bowl, empty, available for whatever the fuck comes ahead". They're just geniuses.
Oh the irony in him confusing himself on something from Lao Tzu on a video about Western vs Eastern philosophers..there is just something classic about that.
The East infections part was actually about the Bubonic Plague. It was a joke on how dirty the East is and more advanced the West is.
Personally I thought the "Western Medicine on these East Infections" is referencing the various viruses that breaks out in Asia like SARS, Bird Flu, Coronavirus etc...
2:45 - I hadn't caught the "East Infections"/"Yeast Infections" thing until you pointed it out. Of course now, "East Infections" makes us think of Covid-19, but the ERB people couldn''t have known that when they were writing this.
You earned a sub from me, been watching erb since season 1, and you're one of the few reactors who actually gets erbs and the references
B. franks is Ben Franklin, who hung around the same circles when he represented the US in France.
Same sex cults *
10:00 don't know about Peter but I'm pretty sure Lloyd raps on his channel
A bowl is much less useful when it is full because it has BEEN used. The contents are useful; the bowl cannot be used again. It is "in use". It can only be used when it is not YET full. :)
Good way to explain it, you're definitely right
@@docrich And, of course, the whole thing is just a metaphor for keeping your options open. Once you have acted you cannot REact. Once your bowl is full you have no room for anything else.
Lao Tzu is known for these sorts of dense multi-layered metaphors. Thus why he needs to "say some shit that makes some sense." He said things like, "A good traveler has no fixed plans, and is not intent on arriving.
"
Because one who is in a hurry to get somewhere is not expending their effort on traveling well. It is merely a transitory state to where they want to be. A good *traveler* is focused on travel.
a full bowl only holds what is in it, an empty bowl can hold anything.... one use verses unlimited potential uses
You're not giving Zach any credit. He's actually resposible for alot of the bet lines
ERB put it perfectly at the end. "What is winning?" xD
One of the best reactions I've seen to arguably the best ERB of all time, keep it up!😍
also, 8:47 those biceps, I'm jealous😅
To help with the useful bowl questions
When a bowl is full it has one use; holding what its full with
When it is empty it can be used for a veriety of things;
fill it with something else,
Use it to dig a hold in dirt,
Throw it as a weapon,
Etc.etc.etc
It's new and more variesd possabile uses mean it is MORE usefull than if it was only being used for the one task of holding something
Yes but that isn't what Sun Tzu is saying. He's saying that Lao Tzu saying random shit in response to what he said makes no sense.
Laozi, what have you done?! Your bowl comment broke our boy!
The way you break down these videos and ACTUALLY KNOW the content of the raps you got yourself a new subscriber!
The most useful since you can use it for many things versus when it is full and can only carry what is currently in it.
The "bowl is . . . is empty" line is drawn on Lao Tzu's philosophy Taoism, in which that is a key point in the philosophy itself. An easy read to understand is "The Tao of Pooh" in which someone uses Winnie the Pooh to explain Taoism. It's also an audio book if its useful.
This is the first video of yours where the battle actually went surgical on you. Lol
And yes....respect and honor is huge in Asia.
The "bowl is most useful" line was about Lao's idea that your mind can take in the most when you clear it of preconceived ideas.
If a bowl is empty it is actually NOT being useful (at least not in the expected way) - it only has the most POTENTIAL for use...
A bowl only has one use when it is full, and that is what it is being used for. When it is empty, it has the potential to be used for a lot of things.
A bowl is most useful when it is empty because it has the potential to be used for many different things when empty but when it has something in it it only has one use.
So for everyone that did get this ERB. Each line had Atleast 3 meanings if not more until the ending which turned into more highschool drama.
I cant watch this battle without replaying Voltaire's lines 10×
Let me be frank
Don't start beef with the Frank
Who hangs with B. Franks
Giving ladies beef franks
BARS
When the bowl is empty it has the most potential for usefulness.
The picking apart your “Wu” with my method man is deeper than you think. Yes it refers to the Wu Tang Clan but in the book “The Art of War” Sun Tzu was the make the commander of a much smaller force to defend against the army from the land of Wu. He picked apart the army using unconventional methods at the time that allowed his forces that were outnumbered 6 to 1 to defeat the army of Wu. Hence the “method, man” bar to be another double. Hands down one of the dirtiest lines in this battle.
Man your reactions are nice
You take the time to it, keep up the good work.
That Beef franks bit was sick. Made me kinda think that rapping and poker have one thing in common. Using the same word for two different meanings in their verses is a pair of whatever, while using the same (roughly) words for four different meanings is like getting four of a kind. A pair is fair in points, but four of a kind is way greater.
And a bowl that is filled with something is being used and therefore useful but for a specific purpose based on the contents. An empty bowl has the potential for many different uses, even if it isn't being used at the moment. So yeah, Lao Tzu made sense.
That B Frank's scheme is one of the most wildest schemes in ERB History.
I really like all your thoughts about the useful bowl. You're right and Lao Tsu never wrong.
An empty bowl can be used for a great many things, but a full bowl is only useful for one thing for the duration it's full
The point of the "I'll make you move, bitch. Get out the way" line is that Lao Zi was (the first?) Taoist. The Tao, translates to The Way.
When he was talking about the bowl being most useful when empty I think he said it didn’t make sense in terms of what context did it have to turning the western philosophers on each other
A bowl is most useful when empty because u can put anything in it. Once u put something in the bowl it is only useful for that one holding one thing.
I'd totally missed the point of "East Infections/Yeast Infections" although I'm pretty sure I got "method, man". Wasn't there something in philosophy about "Man and Method"?
I just thought they were talking about the Wu-Tang Clan
@@stuisp It's a double reference: Socrates's method is his most famous contribution to philosophy, a method of argument to pick apart the opposing position by asking questions, and also a reference to Method Man, a rapper from the Wu-Tang clan, since Sun Tzu's family name is Wu.
I love this battle, because even if you think that you got the line, you probably *still* missed something.
Socrates had 4 ways to argue with someone. One of them was irony
So the way I see it, a bowl has the most potential use when it is empty. But a bowl that is never used is a bowl without value. So it's worth depends on whether you believe that preparation (empty bowl) or functionality (bowl in use) is the more worthwhile trait.
A bowl is useful when it is full and empty. Its is usfull to putting thing in when empty but is also useful when its full so you can transport things lime your cereal with milk in it
When a bowl is full, it currently has one use. When it is empty it has potentially infinite uses, that's what he's saying literally. Figuratively he's saying you are the bowl, dont just have one use/idea, be creative and live with potentially infinite possibilities
A bowl is most useful when empty line not making sense is because when the bowl is empty its not being used so it cant be useful!
"We got a lot of patients coming in.I don't know what is going on!"
Coronavirus.
Of course the Wordplays are not coincidences wtf. That’s the whole point
You always catch at least one thing I deadass missed.
Lloyd does have some rap singles outside of ERB including a series called Dis Raps for Hire.
Epic Lloyd has two proper studio albums, Here (2016) and A Bad Name for Rappers (2019).
Well when it's full it's most useful in the sense as it's used in it's most capacity when it's empty, it's most useful to use with anything else. I think most empty is technically still the most useful.
When a bowl is filled, it is not useful, it is used.
The philosophy video got you thinking deep 🤣
Also for me my favorite in this is Voltaire
A bowl is most useful when it is empty is most likely a lesson on open mindedness
The idea of a bowl being most useful when it is empty is the idea that you can fill it with anything, but when it's full, even if it's still useful for holding what's already in it, it's not able to be filled with anything else. It's a metaphor for learning, essentially. When you're a child, your potential is limitless since you have so much space in your mind still, and so much room to grow. But once you've filled your mind, you're limited to whatever you can apply what you've learned in life to.
There are so many subliminal hits in this battle that it's hard to compile them all. One of their best fo Sho! But bruh, you NEED to check out Dis Raps For Hire by Epic Lloyd. He serves rap justice to real life bullies at the request of the ppl they have bullied
im pretty sure timdelaghetto and jin wrote their own verses lol.
@about the 9:00 mark
Love how much you dug that word play. You should check out Zach Sherwin's stuff outside of ERB. His independent work is pretty corny, but his word play is on a whole other level. Some of the cleverest shit I've ever heard
I lived in Korea for nearly 4 years. Yes respect and honor are much more important in the east. Not paying respect will get you cat out of many places, age and wisdom are not to be offended over there.
I always took the line of East Infections referring to the Avian Flu, SARS as these were major viruses that began in Asia.
Nakita Williams corona gang
Let me be frank=honest
Don’t start beef with the frank=Frenchman
Who hangs with B. Franks=Benjamin Franklin
Giving ladies Beef franks=he was supposedly a great lover
These philosophers are all worth reading, especially Sun Tzu with the commentaries from other Chinese generals discussing real life applications of his rules.
an empty bowl can be filled with anything.
just like forgetting everything we think we know and replacing that with actual knowledge.
Ey, if you wanna check out some of their stuff, Zach, who writes these with them and plays characters some times, has a lot of good raps on his two channels, "Zach Sherwin" and the one he used before that "MC Mr Napkins". Check out "The Letter C - Zach Sherwin" or "Pro/Con - MC Mr Napkins", they're really good. There's been some reactors who check out EpicLloyd's solo stuff, but no one ever does any of Zach's
get's himself in a philosophical debate in the middle of a battle of philosophers oh the irony
Pretty sure the Western medicine line is referencing the spread of the bubonic plague that spread across Europe after the Mongol invasion.
EpicLloyd has done solo rapping in his serie named DissRapForHire. I think there are two seasons. I think you would enjoy reacting to these. Like so he can see!
you thinking about the bowl, so cute😊
Adorable. His girlfriend is super lucky!
A bowl ( the mind) is most useful when it is empty
Also everyone misses the fact that the east called out there victory in their first verse
No one won.
Shayla Agree to disagree
Would love to see a reaction video of Ivan the Terrible vs Alexander the Great.
He's doin em all in order, he'll get there
Confucius sneaked his golden rule in at the last minute. Yes, he came up with it 500 years before Jesus copied him.
A full Bowl is fully used, but not useful. Usefullness is determined, by how much you can use it or for how many Things you can use it for. A full Bowl can Always only be used for 1 Thing. Making it empty again. But when it is empty, you can fill it with all Kinds of Things. So yes, a Bowl is most useful, when it is empty.
*Looks at comments from other reactions*
*looks at these comments*
I didn't notice but when i watched it I some how learn more history and when I was asked I wondered how I know these things I've Never even heard of before
It depends on your context and needs... A bowl has more potential for being useful in general when it is empty, but if you have a specific need, like hunger or something, it would be more useful if there was at least some of what you need in it, like food... I dunno, it's a good point that it can be more useful if empty, but I don't think that's true all of the time.
You took the "A bowl is most useful when it's empty" too literally. I think he mean they've have to be "empty" of human passions (like, for example, Buddha teachs), so they've not to get anger, or violent, too (by attacking the westerns), to take full controll of their lives. I THINK the real meaning of that sentence was something like that. Then Sun Tzu get angry, because they're here to battle, and he think that was the point to become aggressive to definitely win against the westerns, so he just mocks Lao Tsu with "Grrrr! Try to fullfill your bowl with some shits that makes some sense!"
Wrong. The lesson is in versatility and potential. You went way off on an irrelevant tangent.
Edit: If the reference was supposed to be to the soul or some other vague abstract, then it should have been noted.
@@jaspinirving1007 Good to know you have the Truth about everything written on a small piece of paper, that you always carry in your pocket.
I was just trying to exprime my thoughts on that obscure sentence, but your self-confidence absolutely persuaded me I was wrong.
Edit: You know very little about philosophes, if you think that they don't subtend something, when they're speeching, and they just HAVE TO make it clear what they're talking about.
Actually..it's pretty simple.
If a bowl is full, you can't put anything else in it but if it's empty you can put whatever you want to put in that bowl.
Simply saying that you need to be humble and willing to accept new thoughts and suggestions from others.
If ur too pride, you are like a full bowl which can't put anything in anymore.
I'm a Chinese and this is what our teacher and textbook told me.
But philosophy is philosophy, you can understand it in your own ways. Peace out.
And ur right, the jacky chen is a general so mess his enemy's up and defeat them is what that make sense to him.
That's why he want's Lao to fill his bowl with shit that make some "sense" causy it's a perfect time to defeat them western philosophers and yet Lao till him not to be proud.
*proud
I love that you got all philosophical at 11:10 lol
"A bowl is most useful when it's empty" just means that you can have a variety of things in the bowl. If you have a bowl full of water, but you need to hold say soup, you'd empty the bowl to fill it with soup. So no matter what, the empty bowl is the most useful. It's basically a saying that describes having options.
Another thing is the different way each philosopher looks at things.
Nietzsche, actually didn't like Socrates so them being antagonistic is normal. That's what Sun was attacking as he knew that Nietzsche wouldn't actually appreciate being called a disciple of Socrates.
Socrates is the father of ethics so he's offended by Voltaire who cheated at a lottery once.
Sun Tzu wouldn't approach the Bowl line the same was a Lao Tzu because he's a military strategist, thus his approach is much more direct and goal oriented.
Confucius on the other hand is basically the Socrates of China, the first Chinese philosopher, and therefore he considers the Tzus to be "weak rookies" also, MC Jin I think is undefeated in his pro battles.
In the Eastern country we are more strict on respect on the elderly and the thing abt decendence is bcz we Chinese believe that the most important thing to a man is to continue his family name that also mean to must have a son.
i’d consider them serious rappers
9:13 He just out rapped Lil Rob, Molotov, Eminem, Hi- C and Dr. Seuss.