You are right that Sun Tzu didn't drop bars on his second verse, but another way to see it is that (as a general) he did the prep work then sent his men in to do the actual attacking. While it doesn't give him winning lines it is beautifully aligned to him being a war leader. Also... Mannz: Yo... you guys have got it won, what are you doing? Me: Er... they're doing exactly what you'd expect philosophers to do - arguing with each other.
Great breakdown. I think you called Voltaire a Fraud who rigged the lottery, but the line is : I'll not be taught camaraderie, by a frog who rigged the lottery! Frog being a demeaning term for French People
He actually said the word “frog” more like “fraug,” combining the two words, fraud and frog. Usually, with really good rappers, they account for multiple meanings being heard, and encourage it, and sometimes bend pronunciations or work rhymes to ensure that whatever people are hearing when they break it down is correct, even if people hear three different words or meanings, or more. Eminem typically works with 3+ meanings for most lines, and ERB learns from the best (especially when Zach Sherwin gets involved). One example of them layering things in to a track is after the person jumps in to Stan Lee vs Jim Henson, the first four bars rhyme with monopoly (kinda, and actually), multisyllabically, without ever saying the word “monopoly.” They do this because in a great history of that person’s lawsuits, and his company’s lawsuits, a majority of the ones started by him and his company are defamation suits over people calling his company a monopoly, when they have strictly followed (and fought for) the rules regarding monopolies (anti-trust laws). They are almost as close to a monopoly on several fronts as you can get without being an actual monopoly. Their theme parks and tv channels have competition, albeit scattered ownership and nobody is near that company’s level. At the time, that company owned ERB, so they knew they couldn’t call that company a monopoly, so they rhymed with it but left it unspoken. That may not be layered, but they definitely hit with a rhyme scheme and unspoken punch of a bar.
That's what philosophers do. They argue between each other. You can't put 2 philosophers together and not expect then to torn each other apart. Let alone 6 hahaha
I think the main takeaway from this battle is that although philosophy had just two major schools, eastern and western, in time those schools also split up.
My thoughts on little things you didn’t mention Western First Verse -Like you alluded to the Socratic method is to question everything. Eastern First Verse -Western philosophy is very individualistic (which you mention later) where as Eastern Philosophy is about discipline and honoring your parents, ancestors, nation, etc. Western Second -Tao of Pooh - Book about Taoism featuring Winnie the Pooh to explain the philosophy to children -Voltaire wrote the most out of all of them 20,000 letters and 2,000 book and pamphlets -Sun Tzu, I’ll be picking apart your wu with my method, man” Eastern philosophy has the concept of “wu wei” so that is the first meaning and Wu-Tang Clan’s Method Man is the second, and the third is again the Socratic Method (again). Eastern Second -The Nietzsche quote is “God is dead. God remains dead and we have killed him” from “Thus Spoke Zarathustra” -“Let me be Candide with you Voltaire” - Candide is a short novel Voltaire wrote. -“You owe both of your students here an apology.” The Apology of Socrates” is a famous work of Socrates’ defense by Plato. Western Third -“Shiny bright Enlightenment” - Voltaire was a part of the Enlightenment period -You didn’t mention Sun Tzu in the background spying on them. Eastern Third -“Move Bitch get out the way” As in wu wei (again) and of course “Move Bitch” by Ludacris
I appreciated the bit at the end, I think you have a very decent knowledge of this subject but this battle is just so layered and so clever that nobody gets everything, I've seen it and reactions around 30, 40 times and still learn new things- it's my favourite battle and think it really showcases the very best of ERB
To add, one of my favourite things about it (aside from 'what is winning?' which was genius) is that it completely encapsulates philosophy, they just could not agree, they fight amongst themselves and that's just..chefs kiss perfect x
Definitely a good one also I recommend reading the art of war most definitely a interesting book & read also fun fact "Sun Tzu" literal translation means Master Sun so getting burnt by the sun bar hits even harder also a lot of infamous people throughout history studied the art of war and became even more famous for their battles & winning. Also Friedrich Nietzsche died in 1900 at the age of 55 but as for Hitler he took Friedrich Nietzsche's books literally and we know how that played out.
21:42 Lao Tzu just had a much better bar than you thought. “Move, bitch, get out the way” is not only a set of lyrics, but a threat, and the threat is deeper than that, since Lao Tzu’s philosophy (Taoism, aka “The Way,” or a set of rules to live an ideal life of balance) is about the way to live properly. So he’s implying that he (Lao) will end Sun’s life, or “Get out of The Way.”
the "this white boy" verse was a retort to the "jackie chan" part. Both were being racist.. Then he doubled down after his racist bar with "the Sun's out" as a pun on his own name. He's effectively saying "Oh you saying my people looking same, well you're just a pasty white boi and im here to burn you worse than SARS."
I think the Jackie Chan call-out is more precise than it sounds on face value, now that I think about it. He's taking a shot at Sun Tzu's fighting prowess by comparing him to an actor who uses his martial arts for comedic roles.
hey missed your reactions Voiceplay has a few live videos you should check out like The Chicken Song, & Road Trip. If you haven't seen it yet they came out with a brand new video
@1MannzOpinion - As a Taiwanese guy born and raised in TX, the “Jackie Chan” part honestly ISN’T “racist”. I’ve heard of WORST SHIT being said to my people, that is COMPLETELY racist, than this so-called Jackie Chan “diss”.
There will always be something worse out there. I don't really think that's the point. He's saying they all look alike which is a racist, albeit mild, thing to say.
@@1MannzOpinion but he really didn't. He referred to the other two as the Yin and Yang twins and only called Sun Tzu Jackie Chan. So he was differentiating while comparing him to a comic who uses martial arts as part of his comedy, thus insulting his warrior nature. If he had referred to all of them as Jackie Chans or said he couldn't tell them apart then that would be crossing the line. But he obviously recognized their differences and only made the singular comparison.
Also also, I've aaaaaaalways taken issue with the empty bowl line. A bowl has infinite POSSIBLE uses when it's empty, but it's most useFUL when it's serving its purpose, whatever purpose you give it. When it's empty, it's not BEING useful. Because it's not being used. It's just...there.
Two people that I hate: - People who obviously were never in a actual rap battle lecturing about how you should act on a rap battle - People saying "That's funny" instead of laughing MF is both of em
You are right that Sun Tzu didn't drop bars on his second verse, but another way to see it is that (as a general) he did the prep work then sent his men in to do the actual attacking. While it doesn't give him winning lines it is beautifully aligned to him being a war leader.
Also...
Mannz: Yo... you guys have got it won, what are you doing?
Me: Er... they're doing exactly what you'd expect philosophers to do - arguing with each other.
“Apology” is a dialogue written by Plato about the trial of Socrates
Great breakdown. I think you called Voltaire a Fraud who rigged the lottery, but the line is : I'll not be taught camaraderie, by a frog who rigged the lottery! Frog being a demeaning term for French People
nice catch
He actually said the word “frog” more like “fraug,” combining the two words, fraud and frog. Usually, with really good rappers, they account for multiple meanings being heard, and encourage it, and sometimes bend pronunciations or work rhymes to ensure that whatever people are hearing when they break it down is correct, even if people hear three different words or meanings, or more. Eminem typically works with 3+ meanings for most lines, and ERB learns from the best (especially when Zach Sherwin gets involved). One example of them layering things in to a track is after the person jumps in to Stan Lee vs Jim Henson, the first four bars rhyme with monopoly (kinda, and actually), multisyllabically, without ever saying the word “monopoly.” They do this because in a great history of that person’s lawsuits, and his company’s lawsuits, a majority of the ones started by him and his company are defamation suits over people calling his company a monopoly, when they have strictly followed (and fought for) the rules regarding monopolies (anti-trust laws). They are almost as close to a monopoly on several fronts as you can get without being an actual monopoly. Their theme parks and tv channels have competition, albeit scattered ownership and nobody is near that company’s level. At the time, that company owned ERB, so they knew they couldn’t call that company a monopoly, so they rhymed with it but left it unspoken. That may not be layered, but they definitely hit with a rhyme scheme and unspoken punch of a bar.
That's what philosophers do. They argue between each other.
You can't put 2 philosophers together and not expect then to torn each other apart. Let alone 6 hahaha
For every Philosopher, there is an equal and opposite Philosopher. It's a natural law.
I think the main takeaway from this battle is that although philosophy had just two major schools, eastern and western, in time those schools also split up.
My thoughts on little things you didn’t mention
Western First Verse
-Like you alluded to the Socratic method is to question everything.
Eastern First Verse
-Western philosophy is very individualistic (which you mention later) where as Eastern Philosophy is about discipline and honoring your parents, ancestors, nation, etc.
Western Second
-Tao of Pooh - Book about Taoism featuring Winnie the Pooh to explain the philosophy to children
-Voltaire wrote the most out of all of them 20,000 letters and 2,000 book and pamphlets
-Sun Tzu, I’ll be picking apart your wu with my method, man” Eastern philosophy has the concept of “wu wei” so that is the first meaning and Wu-Tang Clan’s Method Man is the second, and the third is again the Socratic Method (again).
Eastern Second
-The Nietzsche quote is “God is dead. God remains dead and we have killed him” from “Thus Spoke Zarathustra”
-“Let me be Candide with you Voltaire” - Candide is a short novel Voltaire wrote.
-“You owe both of your students here an apology.” The Apology of Socrates” is a famous work of Socrates’ defense by Plato.
Western Third
-“Shiny bright Enlightenment” - Voltaire was a part of the Enlightenment period
-You didn’t mention Sun Tzu in the background spying on them.
Eastern Third
-“Move Bitch get out the way” As in wu wei (again) and of course “Move Bitch” by Ludacris
Really appreciate this additional breakdown!
I appreciated the bit at the end, I think you have a very decent knowledge of this subject but this battle is just so layered and so clever that nobody gets everything, I've seen it and reactions around 30, 40 times and still learn new things- it's my favourite battle and think it really showcases the very best of ERB
To add, one of my favourite things about it (aside from 'what is winning?' which was genius) is that it completely encapsulates philosophy, they just could not agree, they fight amongst themselves and that's just..chefs kiss perfect x
Definitely a good one also I recommend reading the art of war most definitely a interesting book & read also fun fact "Sun Tzu" literal translation means Master Sun so getting burnt by the sun bar hits even harder also a lot of infamous people throughout history studied the art of war and became even more famous for their battles & winning.
Also Friedrich Nietzsche died in 1900 at the age of 55 but as for Hitler he took Friedrich Nietzsche's books literally and we know how that played out.
One mistake in the first verse that WeSkeem was quick to point out is that Nietzsche wasn't a nihilist, and was in fact very critical of nihilism.
Concentration was a great bar, directed at Nietzsche, since Adolf used his “wisdom” to encourage and set up concentration camps.
21:42 Lao Tzu just had a much better bar than you thought. “Move, bitch, get out the way” is not only a set of lyrics, but a threat, and the threat is deeper than that, since Lao Tzu’s philosophy (Taoism, aka “The Way,” or a set of rules to live an ideal life of balance) is about the way to live properly. So he’s implying that he (Lao) will end Sun’s life, or “Get out of The Way.”
Really nice content. Try some brazilian movies, subbed songs, etc. You'll get in love with the culture and we're literally a natural views farm lol
You missed some details, but you got all the broad strokes.
the "this white boy" verse was a retort to the "jackie chan" part. Both were being racist.. Then he doubled down after his racist bar with "the Sun's out" as a pun on his own name. He's effectively saying "Oh you saying my people looking same, well you're just a pasty white boi and im here to burn you worse than SARS."
I think the Jackie Chan call-out is more precise than it sounds on face value, now that I think about it.
He's taking a shot at Sun Tzu's fighting prowess by comparing him to an actor who uses his martial arts for comedic roles.
This is a good one!
hey missed your reactions Voiceplay has a few live videos you should check out like The Chicken Song, & Road Trip. If you haven't seen it yet they came out with a brand new video
@1MannzOpinion - As a Taiwanese guy born and raised in TX, the “Jackie Chan” part honestly ISN’T “racist”. I’ve heard of WORST SHIT being said to my people, that is COMPLETELY racist, than this so-called Jackie Chan “diss”.
There will always be something worse out there. I don't really think that's the point. He's saying they all look alike which is a racist, albeit mild, thing to say.
@@1MannzOpinion but he really didn't. He referred to the other two as the Yin and Yang twins and only called Sun Tzu Jackie Chan. So he was differentiating while comparing him to a comic who uses martial arts as part of his comedy, thus insulting his warrior nature.
If he had referred to all of them as Jackie Chans or said he couldn't tell them apart then that would be crossing the line. But he obviously recognized their differences and only made the singular comparison.
Confucius stole the show here.
This one isn't racist Bruce Lee vs Clint Eastwood was racist
May have to do it next!
No, Bro. Bruce Lee VS Clint Eastwood was at another level of that. 😂
Also also, I've aaaaaaalways taken issue with the empty bowl line. A bowl has infinite POSSIBLE uses when it's empty, but it's most useFUL when it's serving its purpose, whatever purpose you give it. When it's empty, it's not BEING useful. Because it's not being used. It's just...there.
Two people that I hate:
- People who obviously were never in a actual rap battle lecturing about how you should act on a rap battle
- People saying "That's funny" instead of laughing
MF is both of em