It's worth mentioning Crimson Glow is still kind of a trivialised invader. When he ambushes another monster in a fight, the divebomb does not damage *you*, only the monster. It's another assist!
One fix could be making apexes invaders since they can't be ridden. Just tweak their AI to pursue the players and target monsters more often as well. They are some of the most powerful monsters, which adds intimidation.
Or make it so you have to actually use the spider or use your silkbind attack to use another monster instead of straight up letting the other make it rideable. Im pretty new to the franchise but I enjoyed watching the 2 apex Diablos fight eachother even tho it wasnt a turf war. It felt... alive.
@@michaelc.r.6416 I agree. The Apex Zino and Mizu quest was similar as well. They just fought each other for a while instead of just slapping each other once and leaving.
Aside from the invader mechanic, the fact that you know where every monster in the game is on a map that is always on screen is actually one of my least favorite things about Rise. The search could be a lot more fun in a game as fast as this, especially with the extra buffs and items you can pick up around the map, or the high spots you can use as vantage points.
There's also no real surprise factor when you start a quest or go into an expedition - in World, seeing that "?" sign on an expedition or quest or Guiding Lands expedition was exciting because most of the time I had no idea what I was going to encounter - was it a new subspecies, variant, or even a new unrelated monster? In Rise, I know exactly what to expect when I see the minimap from the getgo which takes away the chance to be surprised in the same fashion.
Rise's Spiribirds and revamped endemic life has so much potential to be a huge incentive to explore and learn the maps but that potential is completely neutered by the fact that you never actually have to look for a monster and the frankly boring and samey feeling maps Rise has
@@marcusaaronliaogo9158 I actually really like World's maps. I can absolutely see why people hate them though, not even the scoutflies know where they're going sometimes.
Searching for the monsters is cool. I think at first they should have you searching for them but late in the game they give some kind of upgrade or thing thats tells you were they are at the start of the mission, because no matter how cool it is at first it gets boring after a bunch of hours.
Banbaro also is a way worse invader because not only his attacks is almost unavoidable (looking at you 'Boulder Push Bulldozer'), he almost has no present at all, like some kind of loser filler villain in long running anime arc (the closest i could think off). He didn't have that iconic theme like Deviljho nor Bazelguese, nor powerhouse compare to other monster (seriously this guys gets toppled left and right it's just pathetic) and when he used that bulldozer moves it's almost unavoidable because of it's insane hitbox and has knockback
I think Sunbreak has the potential to bring back proper invasions if they put an Apex monster on the map. It wouldn’t be as great as older games, but it would at least prevent the invader from giving a free wyvern ride.
They could also make it that where sunbreak happens monsters are more aggresive and they wont let you wyvern ride them unless you use the little spider or use your own silkbind attacks.
We aren't talking about 4U Apex monsters right? If we do I can't wait to get hit by a Boulder that's the size of half the area we fight in. :D Apex Rajang was so far the scariest non elder dragon I had to fight
@@TitusMH Well I'm still not sure what to think about the silk rope mechanic and I really hate that they got rid of mounting a monster in general But besides that Rise seems like a decent game going back to the older MH games like 3, 4 and X What made it being a let down for you? 🤔
Apparently the justification for being able to see monsters on the map at all times is because....of your pet owl. That's it. Your magic owl just tells you where they are...somehow
Probably works similar to how a hot air balloon can tell you were the monster is just by waving at it, or how you magically know a monsters exact location in world before even encountering it.
It really just became a bonus sadly... I usually get hyped when a monster comes in instead of being afraid of it. And seeing Rajang just sleep somewhere for the first time in High Rank was kinda lame too... Tho Valstrax’s ambush is really damn cool so there’s that at least!
I only recently started playing world, the first time a bazel invaded my anjanath hunt I actually screamed it was so shocking lol never happened to me on rise
@@marcusaaronliaogo9158 or Banbaro's invasion, which is way more annoying than Bazel's because unlike Bazel, Banbaro almost gives no time to escape and immediately pulls the infamous 'boulder bulldozer'
Great video outlining some issues the maps system and mounting and invasions. I actually find bazel much more challenging as a straight up fight in Rise than I did in world, so if he actually actively pursued hunters and target monsters like he used to, it would be a great way to inject some challenge into the game
Idk I get what you mean but I personally think invaders are only cool early game, when you're scared and don't know what's going on. But late game it just gets annoying, when you're trying to do something and that damn bazel music plays you just groan
@@SuperRADLemon Well that's more what I mean by early game, when you're still playing through the story and the invaders are a new mechanic. By late game I mean hour 382 when you're farming something
@@EndiXIV i have an idea that might solve your problem. instead of removing invaders, make event quests where you're in a "Stable" environment. That way they can satisfy those who care about the hunting and immersion aspects, while satisfying those who just want to grind. Maybe just make an arena quest with that monster if it's too troublesome.
I don't think World did the invasion mechanic well, imo. My biggest problem with it is just how frequently monsters invade your fight, start their scripted roaring contest, and then proceed to get dung bombed and leave. I've had it several times where I dung pod a monster, just for them to return minutes later. Like I said, it just happens so frequently per hunt that it just becomes super annoying and really takes me out of the immersion of the fight. As a result, every time a Bazelgeuse/Deviljho/etc. invades my fight instead of being like "oh shit, it's a Deviljho" it's just "ugh, it's a Deviljho"
Spot on with how you described invasions in World. It wasn't "blood pumping" or "adrenaline rushing," it was just annoying as hell because it happened all the damn time. Made me despise beetle juice in base world. I was so happy I didn't have to deal with it anymore in Iceborne. Maybe it was done better in the older games, but with the horrible taste still left in my mouth with how obnoxious it was done in World, I'm glad its gone in Rise.
Them being already revealed on the map I feel doesn't help either. Seeing Jho on a map load makes you go "oh shit" but for like a second and it's not actual terror but like "guess we gotta deal with that later."
@@Axonn1018 gameplay wise I would rather have monsters already revealed. Play monster hunter to hunt monsters not play hide and seek. Also invaders never gived people terror the moment they discover what a dung bomb do.
Still remember the first time I did the G-rank desert Seltas quest still wearing high rank armor trying to build some kind of G-rank defense early on, only for an Apex Rajang to tag along and throw a moon sized boulder at me while I shit bricks. I would love to feel that feeling again, that feeling that no matter how competent I am the game can throw a curveball to keep me on my toes. Can't happen in rise if Rajang is just napping in area 5 of desert plains.
@@marcusaaronliaogo9158 I'm pretty sure that's headcanon on your part. It's not the actual reason. WE don't know why the devs made him sleep, but the kirin explanation is the copium that makes it tolerable🤣
I remember back on 3U for 3ds, my game would lag for a split second whenever a monster spawns partway through a quest, so I had a psychic power to know when the pickle demon was in the vicinity, but not knowing where it was and with how scary he was back then made seeing that lag spike fill me with fear and dread
I would like it to be a mix of Unknown from Frontier and the post hunt warning system. If they are invading then it needs to seek out the hunter or literally swan on top of the player area.
Magnamalo invades rampages but wildly enough he's also kind of an assist because - true to his lore - he does attack the other monsters and often makes them rideable
@@jeronym894 It's still a great game don't get me wrong, but this game was clearly focused on spectacle over challenge this time, and the overall weapon balance leaves a lot to be desired (my poor Gunlance...)
Pretty much spot on there. Aside from Seething Bazel losing the invader mechanic in Iceborne I liked how World handled it but every monster becoming a tool for free damage and barely a threat is a massive step down in terms of being interesting.
Totally agree. I wish they would increase the threat of monsters running across each other. Honestly if I was to change the entire mounting system I would say it should just apply a free wall slam and do some kind of fancy finisher during dismount and leave it at that. Invaders need to be that, invasive and dangerous to the success of the hunt. Not a free ride, damage, and drops.
@@marcusaaronliaogo9158 it for sure needs a nurf. like monsters shouldn't be able to inflict ride mode on other monsters and it should take a lot longer to gain it.
I still fondly remember trying my luck fighting Valstrax in Generations Ultimate when it came after completing a certain urgent quest. You hear the happy complete music and then suddenly the game just shoots a blaring warning signal.
I think this is part of the trend which IMO was best described in a review of MHRise by Captain Astronaut: "More Devil May Cry, less Demon's Souls". This is such a great analogy, as both franchises are great, but one is renowned for its supreme delivery of difficulty and conscious combat. MH will always be a great game, but if you happen to be in it for the DS-part of it, you better also like DMC!
In World I was farming Rathalos with my friend during the early parts of Iceborne. A Velkhana suddenly dropped into my ancient forest quest and changed the music and began to fight us. That single moment was more terrifying than anything Rise has ever tried to throw at me.
Weird that Rise still has the best invader, Valstrax. You can be fighting another monster and Valstrax will see you both and use his ambush to blow everything up. Now if only Rise didn't warn you about an incoming Ambush this mechanic would be perfect.
@@marcusaaronliaogo9158 lol we are talking about ambushes what does it relate to weapon design. We all know that most of world weapon except nerg shara n velk raging and some of the elders are looked like shit. But thats not the point. Valstrax dive. we ride it .smack the target n it poof thats the point of this vid.
I think a unique mechanic they could implement is having monsters that were used for wyvern riding to become incredibly hostile towards the player. It could be that, immediately after a dismount, the monster enters a buffed rage state where they ignore everything except for the player unless a dung bomb is used.
I love the idea they followed with wyvern riding in MHR, and I love how they keep up the great effort to always bring something new to upcoming MH entries. How cool is the fact you can ride those monsters and utilize them as a weapon. This is rise and rise stands for it's own for me. Just like any other MH alteration. Personally, I feel like rise is too easy and monsters not ganging up on hunters is a part of that problem. Somehow I think there is logic behind the fact a Tigrex would fight another apex predator like Anjanath when they enter each other's areas and not bother for the annoying two legged thing that tripple pokes it with it's lance (just kidding, we all know there are no lance players in rise). That being sad, I'd love to see both of them team up on 4 hunters though, treading them like the snack they represent for such powerful creatures. I think there is a sweetspot but we won't see that with the DLC. The good thing is: there will be changes and completely new ideas in upcoming MH games, and I'm grateful the MH teams ALWAYS deliver fun experiences with any release they drop.
"just kidding, we all know there are no lance players in rise" Hey! I mained Lance all through base Rise before swapping to Longsword (then Charge Blade on PC) I understand what you were meaning though lol
I will never forget when I replayed World with my friends and Bazel invaded us for the first time. They were totally clueless so I took the opportunity to make the surprise even bigger, as soon as I saw one of the explosive scales on the map I said to them "Hey come here and look at this weird pinecone", it was hilarious when Bazel came divebombing in a couple of seconds later They have been scared of "the pinecone monster" from that point on, at every hunt the question was "are we prepared if he shows up?" and that was what made Bazel special for me
Really nice video! I think an interesting topic to explore next would be how elder dragons were back in earlier gens vs now. I feel like most of their status as legendary beasts was lost and are now just another monster for you to farm and make armor out of.
the teostra supernova from world got a huge nerf in rise :( i remember when he curled up into a ball, everyone would shit their pants and superman dive to avoid the nuclear bomb. Of course since i was a lance main with guard up, i would just laugh and press R2 to hold my shield up lmao
I agree, in Rise it's just a bonus whenever another monster shows up. Throw a silkbind attack and you can use them to crush your target. I haven't thrown a single dung-bomb in Rise while I used it a lot in World.
Now monsters are just another tool for the player to inflict DPS As a player, I should be made to feel both afraid, terrified and inconvenienced when a monster like Deviljho or Rajang shows up. That's how it was until Rise
It feels weird hearing someone say invading monsters in old games was a good mechanic. Having a monster join the same area of the map as you, only for them both to target you and just ignore eachother was beyond frustrating
Honestly, being a new player who hopped on World about a Year and a half ago and Rise only recently, I feel like Rise was kind of a test to see how far they could bring the MonHun formula in the direction of Action-Game. Sticking to that philosophy the developers made a lot of changes that pulled Rise away from previous games' systems. Whether that is good or bad is a matter of opinion, but I really liked the direction they went while also really enjoying the previous systems that were in World and respecting the ones I've seen from previous games. In my opinion people go a little too hard on Rise because they expect it to be just like the previous games only expanded while I think the developers were meaning to purposefully test how far they can go in one direction with MonHun and still ended up making an incredibly fun and enjoyable experience. However I honestly respect and agree with all of the criticisms of Rise in the context of comparing it to the older games, I just don't think thats what the developers were aiming for. Maybe a slight change in marketing would have been better for certain players who actually hate Rise for these changes as the devs could have better voiced how much the formula would change. What do you all think?
I think they now did that and will bring sunbreak more in the world direction, seeing that they are indeed working on wyvernride option as seen in this one twitter post
you're absolutely right. they failed in the communication aspect, and also the marketing aspect. but i would say 50% of Rise's criticisms boil down to personal taste. the other 50% are objective and measurable like them cutting corners and straight up removing things that were a staple in every other previous MH entries like 2 armor sets per monster, apexes being lazy deviants, and the lack of an endgame grind, which got introduced in MH4, and continued in MH4U, MHX, MHXX, MHW, MHW:IB, etc
for the most part I prefer it I genuinely didnt enjoy random monsters interupting fights to thwack me twice and stall the quest, although I do think certain monsters should be scarier and target the player over the other monster
It’s why I wish they kept them simple. Deviljho in 3U worked incredibly well for me because not only was he terrifying, but he made sense conceptually and he didn’t actually show up THAT often. Don’t get me wrong, he was there, but I’d say it was more about 1/4 of the time. I liked his concept because it explained why he was constantly showing up - it’s a nomadic monster who has to keep eating to sustain itself. Bazelguese almost had that same magic, but for me it appeared way too often and because a nuisance more than anything. And then Iceborne, for some god forsaken reason, had 4 invaders, most of which weren’t interesting because they were subspecies of well known monsters, and thus were easy to telegraph and less threatening. And Banbaro… come on, man. It’s clearly a monster built for one singular locale, so why would you make it travel to others? They should have kept it at Savage Deviljho, Tigrex(another ravenous, angry monster that can travel anywhere), and maybe Rajang if they had to. It’s so stupid.
@@songbird6414 Exactly my thoughts. They really ruined it in IB, they were so damn prevalent that it wasn't a surprise, it was just an interruption that stalled nearly every single hunt. Doubled with how annoying it was to get them to leave, it really left a sour taste in my mouth. Seeing the "?" next to the target monster in previous games was never a guarantee you'd run into them, and it should've stayed that way.
I will never forget the time I joined a Master Rank Nargacuga Hunt, and while I was riding to said Nargacuga... Deviljho showed up and started hunting me. I was screaming in fear the whole time until it finally hit its breath attack on me, oneshotting me... and the quest was on the last faint. So a nargacuga hunt failed, because I joined and got hunted by this invader, before ever getting to the Nargacuga...
I dabbled into monster hunter games on 3ds and GU but only really started playing when I got world on ps4. One of the most memorable moments of my time in world is when I was hunting a barroth with my friend who had been playing since day 1 and suddenly he told me to run and then bazel came crashing down on us and barroth. It was terrifying and awesome and I love bazel for it. Sad to see what they did to them in Rise
One event that always will make me smile was when I was introducing MH to my then girlfriend (now Ex). It was MHGU on the 3DS and we were doing the beginning gather missions, ya know, mushrooms, honey, herbs and goldfish. We were up the said goldfish gather quest as I am showing them around the area where you can find them. Taking our time as they were getting used to the controls still and we hadn't gone deep into fighting anything bigger than the usual Aptonoth for the Raw Meat/Cooking quest. Sitting there idly fishing and telling them about the different fish they were catching they suddenly question... "Whats that???" I turn the camera and notice that a Tetsucabra had wandered into the area. With a shrug I replied... "Oh thats a Testuscabra, we will hunt that later..." Then a heart beat later realised... "OH SHIT, ITS A TESTUSCABRA!!!" Fishing was put aside as we started wailing on the old bullfrog and their first big hunt a few missions early... Because we didn't know exactly where the Monster was, it was a little surprise moment and an unexpected fight in what was just a fishing quest, we were low gear level cause of how early things were and it was something of a surprise to them learning that these monsters are big and dangerous. Now in Rise, the knowing where they are on the map at any time takes those moments away. Sure its nice for us that have been hunting for years over the times when a paintball is needed. But it totally takes that away from new players...
I've only played rise, but I feel like the Akuma event quest with the bigger rajang is the only invader-type that actively doesn't leave you alone. I want more of that, tbh
That moment when even Monster Hunter Stories 2 has actual invaders but Rise doesn't ... And not just invaders scripted for the plot (you meet two as you progress through the story, an Anjanath early game and a Bazel towards the end), you can get randomly invaded while fighting monsters on the map, I found out while I was fighting a Brute Tigrex and suddenly a WARNING message showed up and before I could realize what was going on The Pickle itself joined the fight D:
Or they could put ??? Instead of a monster Icon for the invader and not make it mountable. It would also be cool if they add back the random starting area and delayed supplies in the camp. They could lock the camp box and your box for the 1st half of the run. They tag this as an "unstable quest".
I wouldn't say they trivialized it, since valstrax is an invader in rise...its more like they just removed it. The "invaders" in rise never actually invade, 99% of the time they just avoid your fights.
From my experience, Rise also seams to have a script in place where monster dont interact if one of them cant be ridden. As there is a timer in place after you performed a wyvern ride. During that timer if by chance 2 monsters meet, one of them while almost instantly move to another area. At best you get a roar. Kinde ruined my first Rise experience with Rajang as i was running after him for majority of the "hunt". Though he wasnt the main target, rather the invader. Therefore i had an invader run away from me for 15min, how the mighty have fallen.
I started from MH4U, but I really liked how World/Iceborne handled Invaders. Past games, if I recall correctly, monsters would mostly attack the hunter and turn it into an unfair 1v2 fight; whereas in IB, Invaders (or any monsters in the same zone really) would try to attack the opposing monster, maybe even knock them down if you were lucky but they still would also try and attack the players and disrupt them. You could sit around and watch the fight like it was a movie; or you could use the invader to try and bang it into the monster for that extra damage. It was like Wyvern Riding but there was risk involved as you still could get hit from either monster and you had to put in effort to maneuver the invader into the target and you got a double knockdown as a reward. Even then, the monsters stuck around after they got up. Sometimes, mostly in the case of Savage Devijho, the target monster would run away while you were the one stuck with big angry pickle trying to murder you as you tried running away chasing the target monster, which was chaotic in its own way. TLDR: I think Icebornes Invaders were the best, where everyone attacked everyone, super chaotic, but you could also use that to advantage if you were smart enough. Old games it turned into a 1v2 fight as the monsters only attacked the hunter, and Rise, as you stated, feel more like unearned bonus damage and exist as a means to Wyvern Ride with 0 risk to the hunter as they only target each other and leave.......as opposed to an actual chaotic mess in every single title before it
Maybe Sunbreak can make invaders more interesting. Apex versions of monsters are already immune to being ridden, so master rank versions of Furious Rajang, Bazel, and Valstrax could be made so, and perhaps with more invader specific behaviors added, and if we're really lucky, Savage Deviljo. If we are super insanely lucky, Nergigante can show up and mess with Elder Dragon quests (and maybe a special conflict with Magnamalo). I am fine with regular other monsters still being advantages like in base game, but invaders should be a real pita for players and their hunts.
One of my biggest problem with wyvern riding, other than the fact that you can't ever fight 2 monsters at once, is that it completely halts the momentum of the hunt. Me or my friend would just have to stop playing until the other had ran the monster into a wall 3 times, twice, every. single. fight.
9:11 bro gives me a heartattack here it sounds like "december 2022" at that moment i immediately paused the video to check if there was a delay im not aware of
Dung bombs already trivialized invasions. Invasions were always annoying anyways. Just made the already lengthy fights longer or could be abused by just sitting in a corner with Lance and laugh as Los and Ian kill each other.
First time getting "weird" monster pop up mid-quest in previous games: "OH FUCK BEETLEJUICE/JO IS HERE" Invasions in Rise: "Oh, Rajang/Bazel is chilling on the map, okay."
I mean in previous games it's more like oh great I have to unsheathe my weapon and waste my time to throw a dung bomb to make the invader go away. I don't really get why everyone is acting like invaders were ever a threat.
9:25 Funny you would mention that, I actually added Dung Bombs to nearly all my item loadouts and in 100hr of Rise on PC I probably used them... once! Yeah, they are really not worth it.
Funny story with my friends. since they never hunted the rajang a monster they feared in worlds. with the spider that allows you to ride them at the start all my friends were confused when they saw a question mark just barrel towards them on the mini map until i went raging on the monster with rajang's laser. was a funny moment hearing them all confused at first. good times tho i think now i'm the invader for my friends. whoops :P
Well, we don't want Rise to be *difficult*, do we? That'll just scare away the casuals! "Invasions are annoying," "what do you mean I have to remember to bring dung bombs?" "What do you mean I have to fight more than one monster at a time and lose out on my free 5000 damage?"
Maybe they should ad back loading zones back but in a way to split a gigantic map to 3-4 pieces of the map but make it so some monster can spawn or sleep or appear in one map and when you are hunting a specific monster and it runs to another split map it can make you and the other monster aware of your present and do the invader macanic but this will be a problem cause if you insta kill a monster Right in a area and not go anywhere else it won't happen and some players when hunting a group of different monsters will have to back track to find them but this can be solve by when a certain time the monster will flee instantly to another split zone with a tunnel or the thing in monster hunter rise and with the introduction of many camps you can fast travel fast
im suprised that there are people who like how invaders were handled in world they werent a "fun and interesting challenge" in my eyes as much as they were a constant nuisance its cool and exciting the first few times but after a while you realize its just a thing you have to chuck dung pods at until it leaves so you can get back to actually fighting the monster you came for
I mean, you can always hunt monsters in the arena if you don't like the hunting aspects of the game. You have to capture the monster first to unlock the optional quest.
itd be nice if wyvern rides weren't just given instantly the second a monster touches another. Like it's more powerful than mounting but its given so much more easily. Arena style quests with multiple monsters actually take a while to give you the ride and I feel like itd be better if this was the norm and could possibly make the mechanic itself more rewarding since you have to work for it
While I wholeheartedly agree, I must say that World really overdid the invasion mechanic. I remember almost every fight getting annoying because some monster just kept following me and the target, so half of the fight was spent throwing dung pods and being roar-combo'd. A good balance for me would be invaders that ambush (without seeing them on the map), wreak havoc on everything it sees (so not just your target), doesn't trigger wyvern rides (for real, wyvern riding can be scrapped entirely imo) and flies/runs away after a few minutes. In this way, you'll have the thrill of fighting two monsters simultaneously but not the annoyance of having your hunt interrupted for 20 minutes
I have difficulty missing invaders of the older games, since after the first few times, dung bombing invaders just became a routine interuption, since both acquiring and using dung bombs took no skill. Not to defend how other monsters are free damage now, since I think of wyvern riding invaders to be a similarly routine waste of time. Overall, I'm just skeptical if suprises like invaders have ever been implemented in a way congruent with the rest of each game, since literally nothing becomes a suprise once you've put in hundereds of hours, which is true of most MH games for me.
Apex monsters being the only one you cant ride is probably how theyll go forward with in the dlc. Which is why they made it possible to fight them outside rampages and released the event challange quests of them. God super apex mitzu wiped every online team i got for him, i had to solo him to ensure people did not all get carted at once by him lmao
You seem to be forgetting that a core reason invaders were toned down in Rise was due to them being way too potent in IB. Since the map always has 3 monsters in most quests, getting invaded was an inevitability rather than a surprise; base World Bazel was in nearly every investigation and as soon as you saw his icon, it was a guaranteed chance he'd crash the party. It's cute the first few times, but you start noticing it nearly every hunt and it gets old when you're trying to grind, enjoy the combat, or just practice. It was made even worse in Iceborne where every single monster has the chance to act like an invader. In GU or 4U, it's a legit surprise to see Jho or Rajang show up as they only appear after a certain amount of time has passed. The areas being sectioned into zones meant that if you wanted to keep fighting your target, you could dung them and give the invader the slip, as they wouldn't chase you to the next zone immediately. Keep in mind Dung Pods have a CHANCE to work--a chance that's lower on certain monsters (Black Diablos has a low chance and it does nothing to Savage Jho). The combination of joined areas, 3 monsters every quest, and the dung pod %chance creates a huge shitstorm regarding IB invaders. When this happens, you're basically forced to stop playing the game to try and get your target or the invader to leave, and the AI more often than not made them both relocate to the same area resetting the process. It's not fun and it's not a challenge--its an annoying, boring, and way too frequent scenario you have very little control over and the tools to regain it only work sometimes. I'm not a fan of how Rise handled it (there's no surprise in hunts like in previous gens, wyvern ride is just free damage), but Iceborne handled invaders in the worst way the series has ever seen and I'm not surprised Rise overcorrected it. I hope Sunbreak has extra monsters only show up after time has passed like in previous games--I want the mechanic to remain but there needs to be a middle ground between "always" and "never".
Make invader monsters invisible on the map, make them non-wyvern-ridable, raise their HP pool, make them aggressive in showing up (but not overly so) and the issues with Rise invader monsters would be mostly rectified. Totally agree with you though
I wouldn’t mind having it so only your quest target shows on the map and all other monsters stay hidden, allowing you to actually be surprised when something shows up.
Personally I think... the trivialization of invasion is a bad thing for the game. But than again I saw sinificant amount of players loving new mechanics cause it was less stressful, overall giving them a better experience. Thinking back, invasions on World/Iceborne had more frustration rather than thrill. Times like when two monsters just screamed at each other, stun-locking the player over and over again. When a random Banbaro steamrolls you around like a jerk, When ragiana just wont leave it’s variant behind... I can understand that if you’re not a dedicated player these occasions could leave a bad taste. And with it a poor player experience.
Yeah I think they need to add something in the system so that the game actually tags them as invader monster. That way mount gauge doesn't build for them easily, but I'd in fact 3 times if not more harder to ride them. I remember being so excited to see bazel in the map for the first time as an invader, and being completely disappointed that he really didn't even seem to try to engage the fight at all.
Monster Hunter Rise is indeed extremely casual friendly, only Apex monsters are a challenge. I mean, I don't know if they're hard because it was my first time hunting them, but I beat Valstrax on the first try
In world, when a monster invaded the hunt, most often than not I sheathed my weapon and ran around the monsters to not get hit, they were really a treath sometimes, but in rise they are just more damage to the monster you're hunting, you don't have the felling of fear from them anymore, specially with Deviljho not being in the game
I don’t understand why magnamalo is the only monster that can actually attack you after invading. Like he shows up, gets it to fly away, does some sick flips to get up to it and then uses it to dive bomb you. I feel like just making monsters stick around/have ambushes also deal damage to you would go a long way towards making rise the just objectively better world that I know it could be.
I feel like this would be as easy as making some kind of quest variant with no map, no wyvern riding (even no wire bugs in general if you want to go crazy) no camps and aggressive invaders.
I got into the monster hunter series through rise but I would always play all the demos on the nintendo before. When I saw bazelgeuse in world and its invading mechanic it just convinced me to start playing an mh game on the switch and I was even happier when I discovered bazel through a quest. Honestly i hoped to feel first hand an invade from the bomber but I didn't feel that much of a threat and thanks to this video i get the reason. I love rise but would've liked if they left that mechanic and im hoping something will change it in the expansion.
Also I agree with what you're saying You always know what's gonna be around the corner. You just watch the map and anticipate when it'll enter your area. I used to be reasonably scared of Rajang, too. Even in World where I'd have some good gear, soloing Jang was still something I had issue with at times. Now in Rise I could solo him if I wanted to and do so with ease. I love Rise for amping the fun anime factor by a million, but some things that didn't need to removed or changed kinds remove the fun in it. Monsters I've never seen before when staring to hunt I just know the location of instantly? Even mystery monsters remove the mystery aspect if I know their location. And now that I know an ambush from Valstrax while around another monster won't hurt me, it makes me hope that Sunbreak will remove these safeguards for newer players and make it feel both fun and scary this time around.
It took me a while to realize how much i actually dont enjoy wyvern riding. It always disrupts the flow of battle, feels clunky and just isnt really fun to do. It also happens way too frequently. Everytime a second monster enters my vision i just let out a sigh and get it done for the bonus damage
I still think the problem is that when two monsters are in the same area, they always prioritize eachother instead of the hunter making it a guaranteed mount.
Bazelgeuse was annoying but I also loved him and it was always fun hearing his music knowing I'm about to get bombed 🤣 Deviljho was nuts. Sometimes he would chase me and Odogaron all throughout the map and keep eating Odo and slamming him around lol
Honestly Bazel and Jho in World just ruined the surprise of invasions. They were nearly omni-present and it just got old. I don't think invading monsters have been surprising enough to leave an impression since that first Bazel encounter and before that Apex Rajang in 4U. Rise just doesn't seem to really do invasions, they just kind of replace other monsters on the map sometimes.
Sadly most things in rice difficulty wise is a joke. I given you on playing it and been exploring older games I never played like 3u while I wait for sunbreak in hope they go back to less action game but more monster hunter. As of now this is monster killing not hunting, I don’t feel like monsters can keep up with the hunter
I usually found the idea of invaders cool on paper, but annoying as hell and a bit unfun in practice. However in Rise, it somehow made me miss the feeling of having to fight the quest monster + invaders and making sure I have dung bombs. I still enjoy Rise a lot, but I do miss that "unknown variable" making its way into my hunt and trying to kick my ass back to camp. Besides, without invaders in the series, we wouldn't get those hilarious interactions between Deviljho and Jagras, Tobi, Odo, Dodo, etc.
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oh no not you too
Yeah I love paying rent
My video feels invaded
Lol jks, love your content Rad, get that $$$$
Do you even like the game?
@@namename2040 obviously not but he only did it to get $$$$ a sacrifice worth paying
It's worth mentioning Crimson Glow is still kind of a trivialised invader. When he ambushes another monster in a fight, the divebomb does not damage *you*, only the monster. It's another assist!
Yup, pure bonus
Crimson glow ambushes divebomb don't damage you?
@@albydragondono Only if it targets the monster, and not the player.
Wyvern riding already made any real invaders trivial
@@albydragondono What Grandmaster Burrito said. It knocks you back, but does no damage, but only if he's targetting a monster
I don't think anything will match the "oh shit" feeling I got the first time I heard Qurupeco use Jho's roar
One fix could be making apexes invaders since they can't be ridden. Just tweak their AI to pursue the players and target monsters more often as well. They are some of the most powerful monsters, which adds intimidation.
Or make it so you have to actually use the spider or use your silkbind attack to use another monster instead of straight up letting the other make it rideable. Im pretty new to the franchise but I enjoyed watching the 2 apex Diablos fight eachother even tho it wasnt a turf war. It felt... alive.
@@michaelc.r.6416 I agree. The Apex Zino and Mizu quest was similar as well. They just fought each other for a while instead of just slapping each other once and leaving.
Aside from the invader mechanic, the fact that you know where every monster in the game is on a map that is always on screen is actually one of my least favorite things about Rise. The search could be a lot more fun in a game as fast as this, especially with the extra buffs and items you can pick up around the map, or the high spots you can use as vantage points.
There's also no real surprise factor when you start a quest or go into an expedition - in World, seeing that "?" sign on an expedition or quest or Guiding Lands expedition was exciting because most of the time I had no idea what I was going to encounter - was it a new subspecies, variant, or even a new unrelated monster? In Rise, I know exactly what to expect when I see the minimap from the getgo which takes away the chance to be surprised in the same fashion.
Rise's Spiribirds and revamped endemic life has so much potential to be a huge incentive to explore and learn the maps but that potential is completely neutered by the fact that you never actually have to look for a monster and the frankly boring and samey feeling maps Rise has
@@marcusaaronliaogo9158 I actually really like World's maps. I can absolutely see why people hate them though, not even the scoutflies know where they're going sometimes.
Searching for the monsters is cool. I think at first they should have you searching for them but late in the game they give some kind of upgrade or thing thats tells you were they are at the start of the mission, because no matter how cool it is at first it gets boring after a bunch of hours.
TBF Iceborne had one of the dumbest invaders (Banbaro) both in-game and in-lore wise.
What? You didn't like Banbaro somehow showing up in an area full of Molten Lava? Despite naturally being found on an island in the tundra?
I'll never understand how they made Banbaro of all things an invader
It's Banbaro Time!
That guy was such a non-threat I forgot he was an invader.
Banbaro also is a way worse invader because not only his attacks is almost unavoidable (looking at you 'Boulder Push Bulldozer'), he almost has no present at all, like some kind of loser filler villain in long running anime arc (the closest i could think off).
He didn't have that iconic theme like Deviljho nor Bazelguese, nor powerhouse compare to other monster (seriously this guys gets toppled left and right it's just pathetic) and when he used that bulldozer moves it's almost unavoidable because of it's insane hitbox and has knockback
I think Sunbreak has the potential to bring back proper invasions if they put an Apex monster on the map. It wouldn’t be as great as older games, but it would at least prevent the invader from giving a free wyvern ride.
They could also make it that where sunbreak happens monsters are more aggresive and they wont let you wyvern ride them unless you use the little spider or use your own silkbind attacks.
Sunbreak is going to be a let down like Rise coming from a MH fan since late 2004 trust me
We aren't talking about 4U Apex monsters right?
If we do
I can't wait to get hit by a Boulder that's the size of half the area we fight in. :D
Apex Rajang was so far the scariest non elder dragon I had to fight
@@TitusMH Well I'm still not sure what to think about the silk rope mechanic and I really hate that they got rid of mounting a monster in general
But besides that Rise seems like a decent game going back to the older MH games like 3, 4 and X
What made it being a let down for you? 🤔
@@ImWhyMortalsCry Rise is to damn easy of all the series trust me Capcom isn't trying anymore 😒
Apparently the justification for being able to see monsters on the map at all times is because....of your pet owl. That's it. Your magic owl just tells you where they are...somehow
your owl speaks to you like how ibushi speaks to hinoa😂
day one i literally called my owl "UAV drone" as a joke
little did i know that...
Are you implying that the owl is telling me coordinates of the monsters at all times?
Probably works similar to how a hot air balloon can tell you were the monster is just by waving at it, or how you magically know a monsters exact location in world before even encountering it.
@@kingofflames738 or how painting a monster magically tells you where it is at all times
It really just became a bonus sadly... I usually get hyped when a monster comes in instead of being afraid of it. And seeing Rajang just sleep somewhere for the first time in High Rank was kinda lame too... Tho Valstrax’s ambush is really damn cool so there’s that at least!
Bazelgeuse my first invader after that came deviljho but Bazelgeuse in world was a beast when it came to invasion a shame they nerf him in rise.
I only recently started playing world, the first time a bazel invaded my anjanath hunt I actually screamed it was so shocking lol never happened to me on rise
@@marcusaaronliaogo9158 or Banbaro's invasion, which is way more annoying than Bazel's because unlike Bazel, Banbaro almost gives no time to escape and immediately pulls the infamous 'boulder bulldozer'
I dont know how, but even with all the weird stuff rise has done that i dont like, It still managed to be my favourite game
Not for me. Definitely one of my least favourite in the series
@@GeraltofRivia22 to each theyr own
Great video outlining some issues the maps system and mounting and invasions. I actually find bazel much more challenging as a straight up fight in Rise than I did in world, so if he actually actively pursued hunters and target monsters like he used to, it would be a great way to inject some challenge into the game
Idk I get what you mean but I personally think invaders are only cool early game, when you're scared and don't know what's going on. But late game it just gets annoying, when you're trying to do something and that damn bazel music plays you just groan
They only really show up in High Rank onward tho
@@SuperRADLemon Well that's more what I mean by early game, when you're still playing through the story and the invaders are a new mechanic. By late game I mean hour 382 when you're farming something
@@EndiXIV i have an idea that might solve your problem. instead of removing invaders, make event quests where you're in a "Stable" environment. That way they can satisfy those who care about the hunting and immersion aspects, while satisfying those who just want to grind. Maybe just make an arena quest with that monster if it's too troublesome.
I don't think World did the invasion mechanic well, imo. My biggest problem with it is just how frequently monsters invade your fight, start their scripted roaring contest, and then proceed to get dung bombed and leave. I've had it several times where I dung pod a monster, just for them to return minutes later. Like I said, it just happens so frequently per hunt that it just becomes super annoying and really takes me out of the immersion of the fight. As a result, every time a Bazelgeuse/Deviljho/etc. invades my fight instead of being like "oh shit, it's a Deviljho" it's just "ugh, it's a Deviljho"
World's was only okay
Spot on with how you described invasions in World. It wasn't "blood pumping" or "adrenaline rushing," it was just annoying as hell because it happened all the damn time. Made me despise beetle juice in base world. I was so happy I didn't have to deal with it anymore in Iceborne. Maybe it was done better in the older games, but with the horrible taste still left in my mouth with how obnoxious it was done in World, I'm glad its gone in Rise.
Them being already revealed on the map I feel doesn't help either. Seeing Jho on a map load makes you go "oh shit" but for like a second and it's not actual terror but like "guess we gotta deal with that later."
@@Axonn1018 gameplay wise I would rather have monsters already revealed. Play monster hunter to hunt monsters not play hide and seek. Also invaders never gived people terror the moment they discover what a dung bomb do.
Still remember the first time I did the G-rank desert Seltas quest still wearing high rank armor trying to build some kind of G-rank defense early on, only for an Apex Rajang to tag along and throw a moon sized boulder at me while I shit bricks. I would love to feel that feeling again, that feeling that no matter how competent I am the game can throw a curveball to keep me on my toes. Can't happen in rise if Rajang is just napping in area 5 of desert plains.
@@marcusaaronliaogo9158 I'm pretty sure that's headcanon on your part. It's not the actual reason. WE don't know why the devs made him sleep, but the kirin explanation is the copium that makes it tolerable🤣
I remember back on 3U for 3ds, my game would lag for a split second whenever a monster spawns partway through a quest, so I had a psychic power to know when the pickle demon was in the vicinity, but not knowing where it was and with how scary he was back then made seeing that lag spike fill me with fear and dread
I would like it to be a mix of Unknown from Frontier and the post hunt warning system. If they are invading then it needs to seek out the hunter or literally swan on top of the player area.
Honestly Magnamalo would make a really good invader-type monster too, which makes the truth of this video doubly sad
Well he is in rampages, but not alot of people play them often because of mixed opinions on their mechanics.
Magnamalo invades rampages but wildly enough he's also kind of an assist because - true to his lore - he does attack the other monsters and often makes them rideable
Rise trivialized more than just invasions IMO
yup
big yes (sadge)
@@jeronym894 It's still a great game don't get me wrong, but this game was clearly focused on spectacle over challenge this time, and the overall weapon balance leaves a lot to be desired (my poor Gunlance...)
@@XmortoxX1990 Gunlance is fun but small damage. And Rise is too easy for me.
@@jeronym894 Fun is the perfect word to describe Gunlance
Pretty much spot on there. Aside from Seething Bazel losing the invader mechanic in Iceborne I liked how World handled it but every monster becoming a tool for free damage and barely a threat is a massive step down in terms of being interesting.
Side note, kudos for being in the "timestamp the sponsor ad" club. Not enough people are bro enough to do that.
I appreciate when people watch em as it helps me, but it's better imo that you are aware from the start that it is there
Totally agree. I wish they would increase the threat of monsters running across each other. Honestly if I was to change the entire mounting system I would say it should just apply a free wall slam and do some kind of fancy finisher during dismount and leave it at that.
Invaders need to be that, invasive and dangerous to the success of the hunt. Not a free ride, damage, and drops.
@@marcusaaronliaogo9158 it for sure needs a nurf. like monsters shouldn't be able to inflict ride mode on other monsters and it should take a lot longer to gain it.
I still fondly remember trying my luck fighting Valstrax in Generations Ultimate when it came after completing a certain urgent quest. You hear the happy complete music and then suddenly the game just shoots a blaring warning signal.
That one was such a "oh shit oh fuck" moment..
@@debleb166 "I can beat it..." *Famous Last Words*
I think this is part of the trend which IMO was best described in a review of MHRise by Captain Astronaut:
"More Devil May Cry, less Demon's Souls".
This is such a great analogy, as both franchises are great, but one is renowned for its supreme delivery of difficulty and conscious combat. MH will always be a great game, but if you happen to be in it for the DS-part of it, you better also like DMC!
That title fits for Dragons Dogma so well lmao
In World I was farming Rathalos with my friend during the early parts of Iceborne. A Velkhana suddenly dropped into my ancient forest quest and changed the music and began to fight us. That single moment was more terrifying than anything Rise has ever tried to throw at me.
Weird that Rise still has the best invader, Valstrax. You can be fighting another monster and Valstrax will see you both and use his ambush to blow everything up. Now if only Rise didn't warn you about an incoming Ambush this mechanic would be perfect.
What are talking about? Valstrax's ambush isn't even an invasion, just another advantage to the HUNTER.
@@marcusaaronliaogo9158 lol we are talking about ambushes what does it relate to weapon design. We all know that most of world weapon except nerg shara n velk raging and some of the elders are looked like shit. But thats not the point.
Valstrax dive. we ride it .smack the target n it poof thats the point of this vid.
@@marcusaaronliaogo9158 who?
@@marcusaaronliaogo9158
Are you having a stroke?
@@marcusaaronliaogo9158
Huh... No?
He just said that Valstrax is a bad invader, that's litteraly it.
0:31 You could run into a *Legaiacruz* when collecting monster guts :D
I think a unique mechanic they could implement is having monsters that were used for wyvern riding to become incredibly hostile towards the player. It could be that, immediately after a dismount, the monster enters a buffed rage state where they ignore everything except for the player unless a dung bomb is used.
I love the idea they followed with wyvern riding in MHR, and I love how they keep up the great effort to always bring something new to upcoming MH entries.
How cool is the fact you can ride those monsters and utilize them as a weapon. This is rise and rise stands for it's own for me. Just like any other MH alteration.
Personally, I feel like rise is too easy and monsters not ganging up on hunters is a part of that problem.
Somehow I think there is logic behind the fact a Tigrex would fight another apex predator like Anjanath when they enter each other's areas and not bother for the annoying two legged thing that tripple pokes it with it's lance (just kidding, we all know there are no lance players in rise). That being sad, I'd love to see both of them team up on 4 hunters though, treading them like the snack they represent for such powerful creatures.
I think there is a sweetspot but we won't see that with the DLC. The good thing is: there will be changes and completely new ideas in upcoming MH games, and I'm grateful the MH teams ALWAYS deliver fun experiences with any release they drop.
"just kidding, we all know there are no lance players in rise" Hey! I mained Lance all through base Rise before swapping to Longsword (then Charge Blade on PC)
I understand what you were meaning though lol
I will never forget when I replayed World with my friends and Bazel invaded us for the first time. They were totally clueless so I took the opportunity to make the surprise even bigger, as soon as I saw one of the explosive scales on the map I said to them "Hey come here and look at this weird pinecone", it was hilarious when Bazel came divebombing in a couple of seconds later
They have been scared of "the pinecone monster" from that point on, at every hunt the question was "are we prepared if he shows up?" and that was what made Bazel special for me
If you try to explain this to the Rise kiddies on Reddit, Steam, Twitter or other forums, they call you a gatekeeper, elitist, or some other names.
Really nice video! I think an interesting topic to explore next would be how elder dragons were back in earlier gens vs now. I feel like most of their status as legendary beasts was lost and are now just another monster for you to farm and make armor out of.
Great suggestion!
the teostra supernova from world got a huge nerf in rise :(
i remember when he curled up into a ball, everyone would shit their pants and superman dive to avoid the nuclear bomb. Of course since i was a lance main with guard up, i would just laugh and press R2 to hold my shield up lmao
I agree, in Rise it's just a bonus whenever another monster shows up. Throw a silkbind attack and you can use them to crush your target.
I haven't thrown a single dung-bomb in Rise while I used it a lot in World.
Now monsters are just another tool for the player to inflict DPS
As a player, I should be made to feel both afraid, terrified and inconvenienced when a monster like Deviljho or Rajang shows up. That's how it was until Rise
I mean if you use a dung bomb than a invader is just a bonus in world too? Like what's the difference here lol
It feels weird hearing someone say invading monsters in old games was a good mechanic. Having a monster join the same area of the map as you, only for them both to target you and just ignore eachother was beyond frustrating
Honestly, being a new player who hopped on World about a Year and a half ago and Rise only recently, I feel like Rise was kind of a test to see how far they could bring the MonHun formula in the direction of Action-Game. Sticking to that philosophy the developers made a lot of changes that pulled Rise away from previous games' systems. Whether that is good or bad is a matter of opinion, but I really liked the direction they went while also really enjoying the previous systems that were in World and respecting the ones I've seen from previous games. In my opinion people go a little too hard on Rise because they expect it to be just like the previous games only expanded while I think the developers were meaning to purposefully test how far they can go in one direction with MonHun and still ended up making an incredibly fun and enjoyable experience. However I honestly respect and agree with all of the criticisms of Rise in the context of comparing it to the older games, I just don't think thats what the developers were aiming for. Maybe a slight change in marketing would have been better for certain players who actually hate Rise for these changes as the devs could have better voiced how much the formula would change. What do you all think?
I think they now did that and will bring sunbreak more in the world direction, seeing that they are indeed working on wyvernride option as seen in this one twitter post
you're absolutely right. they failed in the communication aspect, and also the marketing aspect. but i would say 50% of Rise's criticisms boil down to personal taste.
the other 50% are objective and measurable like them cutting corners and straight up removing things that were a staple in every other previous MH entries like 2 armor sets per monster, apexes being lazy deviants, and the lack of an endgame grind, which got introduced in MH4, and continued in MH4U, MHX, MHXX, MHW, MHW:IB, etc
I mean dude... carrying a handful of sh*t in your inventory has trivialized invading monsters forever.
for the most part I prefer it I genuinely didnt enjoy random monsters interupting fights to thwack me twice and stall the quest, although I do think certain monsters should be scarier and target the player over the other monster
It’s why I wish they kept them simple. Deviljho in 3U worked incredibly well for me because not only was he terrifying, but he made sense conceptually and he didn’t actually show up THAT often. Don’t get me wrong, he was there, but I’d say it was more about 1/4 of the time. I liked his concept because it explained why he was constantly showing up - it’s a nomadic monster who has to keep eating to sustain itself.
Bazelguese almost had that same magic, but for me it appeared way too often and because a nuisance more than anything.
And then Iceborne, for some god forsaken reason, had 4 invaders, most of which weren’t interesting because they were subspecies of well known monsters, and thus were easy to telegraph and less threatening. And Banbaro… come on, man. It’s clearly a monster built for one singular locale, so why would you make it travel to others? They should have kept it at Savage Deviljho, Tigrex(another ravenous, angry monster that can travel anywhere), and maybe Rajang if they had to. It’s so stupid.
@@songbird6414 Exactly my thoughts. They really ruined it in IB, they were so damn prevalent that it wasn't a surprise, it was just an interruption that stalled nearly every single hunt. Doubled with how annoying it was to get them to leave, it really left a sour taste in my mouth. Seeing the "?" next to the target monster in previous games was never a guarantee you'd run into them, and it should've stayed that way.
monsters don't even interrupt hunters when they carve when the main monster dies the other monster in the area just drops everything and leaves
You know, making Apex monsters as aggressive invaders would solve most of the problems that you listed
I will never forget the time I joined a Master Rank Nargacuga Hunt, and while I was riding to said Nargacuga... Deviljho showed up and started hunting me. I was screaming in fear the whole time until it finally hit its breath attack on me, oneshotting me... and the quest was on the last faint.
So a nargacuga hunt failed, because I joined and got hunted by this invader, before ever getting to the Nargacuga...
I honestly think they trivialized elder dragons too, haha look at my pukei pukei kicking valstrax's ass just because im riding it
yeah I like the new Kushala design, but it's infinitely easier now
I dabbled into monster hunter games on 3ds and GU but only really started playing when I got world on ps4. One of the most memorable moments of my time in world is when I was hunting a barroth with my friend who had been playing since day 1 and suddenly he told me to run and then bazel came crashing down on us and barroth. It was terrifying and awesome and I love bazel for it. Sad to see what they did to them in Rise
Dude I 100% agree with you when it comes to the Dung Bomb thing. It’s literally the most useless item in the game
damn dude this thumbnail art is sick. honestly wouldnt have clicked if u havent made it so nice!
Well hopefully it made you more inclined to check out the rest of my vids lmao
@@SuperRADLemon OH lol. I'm already subscribed. I just don't watch u all that often.
One event that always will make me smile was when I was introducing MH to my then girlfriend (now Ex).
It was MHGU on the 3DS and we were doing the beginning gather missions, ya know, mushrooms, honey, herbs and goldfish.
We were up the said goldfish gather quest as I am showing them around the area where you can find them. Taking our time as they were getting used to the controls still and we hadn't gone deep into fighting anything bigger than the usual Aptonoth for the Raw Meat/Cooking quest.
Sitting there idly fishing and telling them about the different fish they were catching they suddenly question...
"Whats that???"
I turn the camera and notice that a Tetsucabra had wandered into the area. With a shrug I replied...
"Oh thats a Testuscabra, we will hunt that later..." Then a heart beat later realised... "OH SHIT, ITS A TESTUSCABRA!!!"
Fishing was put aside as we started wailing on the old bullfrog and their first big hunt a few missions early...
Because we didn't know exactly where the Monster was, it was a little surprise moment and an unexpected fight in what was just a fishing quest, we were low gear level cause of how early things were and it was something of a surprise to them learning that these monsters are big and dangerous. Now in Rise, the knowing where they are on the map at any time takes those moments away. Sure its nice for us that have been hunting for years over the times when a paintball is needed. But it totally takes that away from new players...
I've only played rise, but I feel like the Akuma event quest with the bigger rajang is the only invader-type that actively doesn't leave you alone. I want more of that, tbh
That moment when even Monster Hunter Stories 2 has actual invaders but Rise doesn't ... And not just invaders scripted for the plot (you meet two as you progress through the story, an Anjanath early game and a Bazel towards the end), you can get randomly invaded while fighting monsters on the map, I found out while I was fighting a Brute Tigrex and suddenly a WARNING message showed up and before I could realize what was going on The Pickle itself joined the fight D:
Or they could put ??? Instead of a monster Icon for the invader and not make it mountable. It would also be cool if they add back the random starting area and delayed supplies in the camp. They could lock the camp box and your box for the 1st half of the run. They tag this as an "unstable quest".
The ad timestamp, you truly are a man of the people SuperRad
I gotta pay rent, but I don't wanna waste your time
@@SuperRADLemon I did something I've never done before: I clicked the link in the description.
Appreciate u
Rise Rajang "sorry didn't set my alarm"
I wouldn't say they trivialized it, since valstrax is an invader in rise...its more like they just removed it.
The "invaders" in rise never actually invade, 99% of the time they just avoid your fights.
"invader" in that he ambushes for a free wyvern ride
From my experience, Rise also seams to have a script in place where monster dont interact if one of them cant be ridden. As there is a timer in place after you performed a wyvern ride. During that timer if by chance 2 monsters meet, one of them while almost instantly move to another area. At best you get a roar.
Kinde ruined my first Rise experience with Rajang as i was running after him for majority of the "hunt". Though he wasnt the main target, rather the invader. Therefore i had an invader run away from me for 15min, how the mighty have fallen.
I started from MH4U, but I really liked how World/Iceborne handled Invaders. Past games, if I recall correctly, monsters would mostly attack the hunter and turn it into an unfair 1v2 fight; whereas in IB, Invaders (or any monsters in the same zone really) would try to attack the opposing monster, maybe even knock them down if you were lucky but they still would also try and attack the players and disrupt them. You could sit around and watch the fight like it was a movie; or you could use the invader to try and bang it into the monster for that extra damage. It was like Wyvern Riding but there was risk involved as you still could get hit from either monster and you had to put in effort to maneuver the invader into the target and you got a double knockdown as a reward. Even then, the monsters stuck around after they got up. Sometimes, mostly in the case of Savage Devijho, the target monster would run away while you were the one stuck with big angry pickle trying to murder you as you tried running away chasing the target monster, which was chaotic in its own way.
TLDR: I think Icebornes Invaders were the best, where everyone attacked everyone, super chaotic, but you could also use that to advantage if you were smart enough. Old games it turned into a 1v2 fight as the monsters only attacked the hunter, and Rise, as you stated, feel more like unearned bonus damage and exist as a means to Wyvern Ride with 0 risk to the hunter as they only target each other and leave.......as opposed to an actual chaotic mess in every single title before it
Love how I saw super saiyan rajang for a sec and now I can’t get it out of my head.
Maybe Sunbreak can make invaders more interesting. Apex versions of monsters are already immune to being ridden, so master rank versions of Furious Rajang, Bazel, and Valstrax could be made so, and perhaps with more invader specific behaviors added, and if we're really lucky, Savage Deviljo. If we are super insanely lucky, Nergigante can show up and mess with Elder Dragon quests (and maybe a special conflict with Magnamalo). I am fine with regular other monsters still being advantages like in base game, but invaders should be a real pita for players and their hunts.
One of my biggest problem with wyvern riding, other than the fact that you can't ever fight 2 monsters at once, is that it completely halts the momentum of the hunt. Me or my friend would just have to stop playing until the other had ran the monster into a wall 3 times, twice, every. single. fight.
Great video Rad, glad you're getting that sponsor Zeni
9:11 bro gives me a heartattack here
it sounds like "december 2022"
at that moment i immediately paused the video to check if there was a delay im not aware of
we dont even need to throw shitbomb on the monster anymore
Biggest L to date
Dung bombs already trivialized invasions.
Invasions were always annoying anyways. Just made the already lengthy fights longer or could be abused by just sitting in a corner with Lance and laugh as Los and Ian kill each other.
First time getting "weird" monster pop up mid-quest in previous games:
"OH FUCK BEETLEJUICE/JO IS HERE"
Invasions in Rise:
"Oh, Rajang/Bazel is chilling on the map, okay."
I mean in previous games it's more like oh great I have to unsheathe my weapon and waste my time to throw a dung bomb to make the invader go away. I don't really get why everyone is acting like invaders were ever a threat.
one of many trivialized aspects of rise :(
I miss rajang hurling massive boulders at me
And furious chucking mountains in my direction 😔
i want a monster hunter game that makes players cry in fear and adrenaline, and very satisfied with each successful hunt.
*flashbacks to 3u* yeah i remember the days sigh damn bird mimicking deviljho roar
Yeah another video in which I don’t get a notification. Love the content keep it up :)
Thanks! Will do!
9:25 Funny you would mention that, I actually added Dung Bombs to nearly all my item loadouts and in 100hr of Rise on PC I probably used them... once! Yeah, they are really not worth it.
I've only watched 1 minute of the video but, I completely agree with the title they've trivialized invaders (they just don't hit the same)
Funny story with my friends. since they never hunted the rajang a monster they feared in worlds. with the spider that allows you to ride them at the start all my friends were confused when they saw a question mark just barrel towards them on the mini map until i went raging on the monster with rajang's laser. was a funny moment hearing them all confused at first. good times tho i think now i'm the invader for my friends. whoops :P
You just made me realize I've not used a single dungbomb in rise.
Well, we don't want Rise to be *difficult*, do we? That'll just scare away the casuals! "Invasions are annoying," "what do you mean I have to remember to bring dung bombs?" "What do you mean I have to fight more than one monster at a time and lose out on my free 5000 damage?"
Maybe they should ad back loading zones back but in a way to split a gigantic map to 3-4 pieces of the map but make it so some monster can spawn or sleep or appear in one map and when you are hunting a specific monster and it runs to another split map it can make you and the other monster aware of your present and do the invader macanic but this will be a problem cause if you insta kill a monster Right in a area and not go anywhere else it won't happen and some players when hunting a group of different monsters will have to back track to find them but this can be solve by when a certain time the monster will flee instantly to another split zone with a tunnel or the thing in monster hunter rise and with the introduction of many camps you can fast travel fast
im suprised that there are people who like how invaders were handled in world
they werent a "fun and interesting challenge" in my eyes as much as they were a constant nuisance
its cool and exciting the first few times but after a while you realize its just a thing you have to chuck dung pods at until it leaves so you can get back to actually fighting the monster you came for
I mean, you can always hunt monsters in the arena if you don't like the hunting aspects of the game. You have to capture the monster first to unlock the optional quest.
Kudos for putting a timestamp on that sponsored AD
Best part of the vid were the faces during the ad
itd be nice if wyvern rides weren't just given instantly the second a monster touches another. Like it's more powerful than mounting but its given so much more easily. Arena style quests with multiple monsters actually take a while to give you the ride and I feel like itd be better if this was the norm and could possibly make the mechanic itself more rewarding since you have to work for it
While I wholeheartedly agree, I must say that World really overdid the invasion mechanic. I remember almost every fight getting annoying because some monster just kept following me and the target, so half of the fight was spent throwing dung pods and being roar-combo'd. A good balance for me would be invaders that ambush (without seeing them on the map), wreak havoc on everything it sees (so not just your target), doesn't trigger wyvern rides (for real, wyvern riding can be scrapped entirely imo) and flies/runs away after a few minutes. In this way, you'll have the thrill of fighting two monsters simultaneously but not the annoyance of having your hunt interrupted for 20 minutes
I have difficulty missing invaders of the older games, since after the first few times, dung bombing invaders just became a routine interuption, since both acquiring and using dung bombs took no skill. Not to defend how other monsters are free damage now, since I think of wyvern riding invaders to be a similarly routine waste of time. Overall, I'm just skeptical if suprises like invaders have ever been implemented in a way congruent with the rest of each game, since literally nothing becomes a suprise once you've put in hundereds of hours, which is true of most MH games for me.
I dunno, I remember going into certain hunts in 3U praying I wouldn't run into deviljho only for him to show up causing me to audibly scream
Apex monsters being the only one you cant ride is probably how theyll go forward with in the dlc. Which is why they made it possible to fight them outside rampages and released the event challange quests of them. God super apex mitzu wiped every online team i got for him, i had to solo him to ensure people did not all get carted at once by him lmao
You seem to be forgetting that a core reason invaders were toned down in Rise was due to them being way too potent in IB. Since the map always has 3 monsters in most quests, getting invaded was an inevitability rather than a surprise; base World Bazel was in nearly every investigation and as soon as you saw his icon, it was a guaranteed chance he'd crash the party. It's cute the first few times, but you start noticing it nearly every hunt and it gets old when you're trying to grind, enjoy the combat, or just practice. It was made even worse in Iceborne where every single monster has the chance to act like an invader.
In GU or 4U, it's a legit surprise to see Jho or Rajang show up as they only appear after a certain amount of time has passed. The areas being sectioned into zones meant that if you wanted to keep fighting your target, you could dung them and give the invader the slip, as they wouldn't chase you to the next zone immediately. Keep in mind Dung Pods have a CHANCE to work--a chance that's lower on certain monsters (Black Diablos has a low chance and it does nothing to Savage Jho). The combination of joined areas, 3 monsters every quest, and the dung pod %chance creates a huge shitstorm regarding IB invaders. When this happens, you're basically forced to stop playing the game to try and get your target or the invader to leave, and the AI more often than not made them both relocate to the same area resetting the process.
It's not fun and it's not a challenge--its an annoying, boring, and way too frequent scenario you have very little control over and the tools to regain it only work sometimes. I'm not a fan of how Rise handled it (there's no surprise in hunts like in previous gens, wyvern ride is just free damage), but Iceborne handled invaders in the worst way the series has ever seen and I'm not surprised Rise overcorrected it. I hope Sunbreak has extra monsters only show up after time has passed like in previous games--I want the mechanic to remain but there needs to be a middle ground between "always" and "never".
Make invader monsters invisible on the map, make them non-wyvern-ridable, raise their HP pool, make them aggressive in showing up (but not overly so) and the issues with Rise invader monsters would be mostly rectified. Totally agree with you though
imagine rajang have ultra instinct and valstrax has ultra ego, lol
bezelgeus can sleep bombing player
I wouldn’t mind having it so only your quest target shows on the map and all other monsters stay hidden, allowing you to actually be surprised when something shows up.
Personally I think... the trivialization of invasion is a bad thing for the game. But than again I saw sinificant amount of players loving new mechanics cause it was less stressful, overall giving them a better experience.
Thinking back, invasions on World/Iceborne had more frustration rather than thrill. Times like when two monsters just screamed at each other, stun-locking the player over and over again. When a random Banbaro steamrolls you around like a jerk, When ragiana just wont leave it’s variant behind... I can understand that if you’re not a dedicated player these occasions could leave a bad taste. And with it a poor player experience.
Yeah I think they need to add something in the system so that the game actually tags them as invader monster. That way mount gauge doesn't build for them easily, but I'd in fact 3 times if not more harder to ride them. I remember being so excited to see bazel in the map for the first time as an invader, and being completely disappointed that he really didn't even seem to try to engage the fight at all.
Monster Hunter Rise is indeed extremely casual friendly, only Apex monsters are a challenge. I mean, I don't know if they're hard because it was my first time hunting them, but I beat Valstrax on the first try
In world, when a monster invaded the hunt, most often than not I sheathed my weapon and ran around the monsters to not get hit, they were really a treath sometimes, but in rise they are just more damage to the monster you're hunting, you don't have the felling of fear from them anymore, specially with Deviljho not being in the game
I don’t understand why magnamalo is the only monster that can actually attack you after invading. Like he shows up, gets it to fly away, does some sick flips to get up to it and then uses it to dive bomb you. I feel like just making monsters stick around/have ambushes also deal damage to you would go a long way towards making rise the just objectively better world that I know it could be.
It’s so satisfying to hear someone pronounce “bazelgeuse” the same way i do
I feel like this would be as easy as making some kind of quest variant with no map, no wyvern riding (even no wire bugs in general if you want to go crazy) no camps and aggressive invaders.
I got into the monster hunter series through rise but I would always play all the demos on the nintendo before.
When I saw bazelgeuse in world and its invading mechanic it just convinced me to start playing an mh game on the switch and I was even happier when I discovered bazel through a quest. Honestly i hoped to feel first hand an invade from the bomber but I didn't feel that much of a threat and thanks to this video i get the reason. I love rise but would've liked if they left that mechanic and im hoping something will change it in the expansion.
Also I agree with what you're saying
You always know what's gonna be around the corner. You just watch the map and anticipate when it'll enter your area. I used to be reasonably scared of Rajang, too. Even in World where I'd have some good gear, soloing Jang was still something I had issue with at times. Now in Rise I could solo him if I wanted to and do so with ease.
I love Rise for amping the fun anime factor by a million, but some things that didn't need to removed or changed kinds remove the fun in it. Monsters I've never seen before when staring to hunt I just know the location of instantly? Even mystery monsters remove the mystery aspect if I know their location.
And now that I know an ambush from Valstrax while around another monster won't hurt me, it makes me hope that Sunbreak will remove these safeguards for newer players and make it feel both fun and scary this time around.
“Basil Juice”
It took me a while to realize how much i actually dont enjoy wyvern riding. It always disrupts the flow of battle, feels clunky and just isnt really fun to do.
It also happens way too frequently. Everytime a second monster enters my vision i just let out a sigh and get it done for the bonus damage
I still think the problem is that when two monsters are in the same area, they always prioritize eachother instead of the hunter making it a guaranteed mount.
Bazelgeuse was annoying but I also loved him and it was always fun hearing his music knowing I'm about to get bombed 🤣 Deviljho was nuts. Sometimes he would chase me and Odogaron all throughout the map and keep eating Odo and slamming him around lol
Honestly Bazel and Jho in World just ruined the surprise of invasions. They were nearly omni-present and it just got old. I don't think invading monsters have been surprising enough to leave an impression since that first Bazel encounter and before that Apex Rajang in 4U. Rise just doesn't seem to really do invasions, they just kind of replace other monsters on the map sometimes.
Sadly most things in rice difficulty wise is a joke. I given you on playing it and been exploring older games I never played like 3u while I wait for sunbreak in hope they go back to less action game but more monster hunter. As of now this is monster killing not hunting, I don’t feel like monsters can keep up with the hunter
"Rice"
xD
It would be perfect if Lagiacrus returned as a invading monster in Sunbreak, or a future game. But it has to be done right
helllll yeah
Have no idea if anyone else has done this yet but I have one thing to say Raid shadow legends is everywhere you can't hide from it.
Haha sorry!
@@SuperRADLemon Holy great Jaggi! I didn't think you would reply to me. Thanks for the content your a awesome TH-camr!
I usually found the idea of invaders cool on paper, but annoying as hell and a bit unfun in practice. However in Rise, it somehow made me miss the feeling of having to fight the quest monster + invaders and making sure I have dung bombs. I still enjoy Rise a lot, but I do miss that "unknown variable" making its way into my hunt and trying to kick my ass back to camp. Besides, without invaders in the series, we wouldn't get those hilarious interactions between Deviljho and Jagras, Tobi, Odo, Dodo, etc.