No Crank Diagnosis Fundamentals (starter testing)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 ต.ค. 2024
- Engine does not crank, starting system testing. These principles can be applied to any car! ( the car being tested is a 2000 Sebring JXI) Here are the two bad block ground videos mentioned:
Nissan with a bad block ground
• How to test a starter ...
Ford SHO with a bad block ground
• No crank, no start dia...
ScannerDanner Tools:
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For more information on this topic, I have written a “field manual” called Engine Performance Diagnostics which is available at www.scannerdanner.com as an eBook or paper book.
Want even more diagnostic training? Whether you are a DIY trying to fix your own car, someone looking to become an auto technician, or a current auto technician that wants to get more into diagnostics, subscribe to ScannerDanner Premium www.scannerdan... There is a 14 day free trial.
On ScannerDanner Premium I will bring you right into my classroom at Rosedale Technical College. You will find page for page lectures taken right from my book as well as exclusive classroom type case studies. What is so special about these classroom case studies? I pull live problem vehicles directly into my classroom and we troubleshoot them in real time, using and applying the theory and testing procedures we learn during the classroom lectures. There is no better on-line training of how to troubleshoot automotive electrical and electronics systems anywhere!
Disclaimer:
Due to factors beyond the control of ScannerDanner LLC, it cannot guarantee against unauthorized modifications of this information, or improper use of this information. ScannerDanner LLC assumes no liability for property damage or injury incurred as a result of any of the information contained in this video. ScannerDanner LLC recommends safe practices when working with power tools, automotive lifts, lifting tools, jack stands, electrical equipment, blunt instruments, chemicals, lubricants, or any other tools or equipment seen or implied in this video. Due to factors beyond the control of ScannerDanner LLC, no information contained in this video shall create any express or implied warranty or guarantee of any particular result. Any injury, damage or loss that may result from improper use of these tools, equipment, or the information contained in this video is the sole responsibility of the user and not ScannerDanner LLC.
![No Start, No Crank - Suspected Bad ECM - [Auction Truck]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/hhbmJprhino/mqdefault.jpg)
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One of my favorite tools, the uActivate, you can find on the tools page of my website here:
www.scannerdanner.com/diagnostic-tools.html
Its sold out
@@Iroc_twan they will be making more, there is a waiting list for good reason! It is that valuable of a tool
@@ScannerDanner my friend has a dodge van where the starter just clicked and thought he had a bad starter. Changes the starter and had the same results of just clicking. He the takes off air cleaner and looking over the wiring he doesn't see anything wrong and puts the air cleaner back on. He then turns the key and the starter kicks in and his engine starts. He is very happy until his motor stops and doesn't stay running.
Where does a technician get those diagrams off the scan tools ?Which scan tools have these schematics on electrical ? I see alot youtube and techs showing them. I know about all data but thats a sub deal.
@@PackardBelltoll The wiring diagrams and service information I use is a program called ShopKey (Mitchell) and is about $160 a month to gain access to it. There is a DIY version of this program where you can buy access to individual cars for $20 and you'll have access to the same service info and diagrams that I use. Here is the link to the DIY version eautorepair.adtrk.biz/?a=10817&c=24&p=r&s1=
If they don't like being charged the fees let em take it somewhere else or diagnose it themselves......Time is money!!!
for sure, just wanted my community to know and customers for that matter, that the intermittent no start (cranks normal) after the repair of the starter would be a separate fee
It's so true you need to have good confidence .good job teacher.👍
ScannerDanner Thing is Paul customers sometimes don’t understand that the two problems are nothing to do with each other or the repair that you have done has “caused”another issue and all this stems from their lack of understanding on how a vehicle works
For sure and this is where customer communication is critical. Also being a man of integrity and people know it helps too. And if you have those in order and a customer gives you crap about it, you simple don't need that customer anymore.
❤
Starters can go bad from one second to the next. Don't know why they doubted you . saying it drove in is not a valid point to defend a good starter .great work as always
It is the same as what many customers experience. Car drove them to the grocery store just fine, and then when they came out 15 minutes later with their groceries, to crank it up and go home, NOTHING! Just ask ScannerDannerMom!
I love how you revisit topics you have already covered in previous videos! New scenarios provide invaluable tips and information!
yes it’s awesome how he always revisits fundamentals, always has more to add, wand with good coverage of the overall basics of the subject.
Thanks for the video,its funny how when people take there car to a small shop they expect a small bill,but when they go to a dealer and pay $200 to get a fuse put in thats ok.
Its crazy .
I always laugh when people assume the dealership costs more. We only charge $89 for most basic diagnostics and I can usually solve most issues in that time. It is usually the aftermarket shops that hose the customer after parts chucking and screwups.
@@radman999 it's because sometimes you get a quote for a $1000 for a part and you go to napa and buy it for 300. I recently needed a seat for my ford e250 and they sold the cover and cushion separate. The cover was over 300. Same thing happens with my bobcat. I replaced a txv for $70 bobcat wanted 250+.
@@simclardy1 Maybe if you own 80s cars. Most of the aftermarket parts I see are total substandard shit that cause more problems than the old ones.
KWP That’s so true,some pattern parts are truly shocking and hadn’t ought to be allowed to be sold especially electrical stuff like 02 sensors and aftermarket catalytic converters
That was a great lesson on quickly finding the problem with confidence, especially when Pete second guested you. The tests don't lie!!
I find they people that have complaints never have their own content, and probably have never worked on whatever your video is about. But you can be sure they like to get paid for every hour they put into their job, no matter what it is, especially if they go into overtime or have to work a holiday. Thanks for your great video content!
Great vid Paul,I never thought of checking ground to ground using a test light before but as usual I’ve learn something new from you...Thank you 👍
I would charge in this case because this new concern could also be because of shoddy work when doing the engine swap. You just don’t know. No free rides in this world.
Disclaimer: I was a 13 year career veteran auto tech and got out in 2001 due to the flat rate / no training / pay issue. Fast forward 18 years and an old, established shop like this needs to bring in an career, L1 level, Master Tech to diag a bad starter? I going to get into mobile diagnostics. Things are apparently a lot worse than they used to be. Paul; seriously, am I missing something here? Be honest, please.
I'm a master tech 45 years exp on a problem like this I work backwards from the starter test light on the solenoid command wire lot of guys work the other way around never knew the logic
Dang, I wish I hadn't read the comments. I like to follow along and then pause to consider what I'd do next. A hint in the remarks tilts the whole table.
The wonders of your knowledge👍🤓thank you for sharing that knowledge👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏🤓
Confidence comes with experience, we all wish we have. You give us hope. Love the videos bro.
Love the old-time Steelers sign on the wall!
All the tools and equipment used in diagnostics can easily add up to 10s of thousands the scan tool alone is about 10k so you have charge to get return on your investment .
more than that, you need to charge for your experience, no different than a specialist doctor would
Que parte d usa 🇺🇸 tu vives. Danner
YOU ARE NOT OVER CHARGING !! YOU ARE SMART AS A WHIP!!! SMART FOR SURE!! I LUV THE CHANNEL! I WISH I would have had a dad like you when I was growing up.
Just basic testing. But so many technicians fail here. Awesome vid Paul!👍😊🤗
Thanks Cuba! You going to Super Saturday in PA?
@@ScannerDanner of course! I'm only 15 -20 mns aways. I can't not go! Lol. I've been helping with coordinating here & there too.
Awesome! See you there
As a Tech, I learned from the Best. Will never stop learning from SD!
Thanks Mikey!
Another great video, Paul. I do have a question about the Uactivate tool. I own one, and I absolutely love it, like you. But do you know if they have any built in circuitry inside of it that provides a small load on the control side to substitute the relay coil load? Basically, should I also be using a test light to ensure that I am getting a true loaded power and ground to the control side of the relay? Does my question make sense? lol
perfect sense my friend, the only load would be the LED bulb which is significantly less than what the relay coil would be. I'll have to measure it sometime. If you are concerned, you can easily load the circuit more with your test light. I think there are variables with any tool and with any testing methods, wouldn't you agree?
ScannerDanner i absolutely agree. I still absolutely love the tool. I use it all the time.
I’ll need to measure the load. I just wasn’t sure if they added an additional load to the circuit of the LED bulb, or not. That’s all.
@@VoltageDropDiagnostics I don't think so? But I did realize that I wasn't using the tool properly until late in the video and that was the load side LED check! That test told us what my test light connected to battery positive told us and that was that we had continuity all the way down to the starter and through the starter solenoid :-)
Before Paul had the Uactivate, he always used a test light. Then he would use the tool that allows u to plug the relay in and that tests the relay. I have Uactivate also.
I asked a cheap skate customer last week how many hours a week he worked. He said 40 hrs. I asked him if he got paid for 40 hours and he said of course. I asked him what made my 40 hours any different than his.
He paid his bill and apologized as he was leaving. 😊
Lol nice!
You are a great man and an awesome instructor. Whatever you charge (if you do so) is none of the wonderful youtubers' business. I for one thing appreciate you sharing the knowledge to some extend. I know a guy here in my area (NC) who charges $125 per hour per diagnostic. Sooo if people complain about you charging something they should take their cars to a dealer or franchise shop where they will get billed for just popping the hood. Ask me how I know. 👍🏼
I own a shop, I charge. Not my Friends in the Business & not My kids. everyone else pays
Ken Schmidt same here
Its time to retire the car I know it's a convertible. But it needs to retire to greener pastures. (junk yard) LOL Good Job!
Thank you for championing this issue on separate diagnostic fee for separate problems. As a dealer tech, I have heard too many times "Ever since". No cranks are especially problematic with customers because if it doesn't crank(as you obviously know), you have no idea of health of the engine. I think anyone calling you a crook is way off base and clearly doesn't regularly watch your informative videos that you put up on youtube for FREE.
I just did a voltage drop test for a bad engine ground in a parking lot of a gas station the owner of the truck was fascinated with that test. He was really stoked when I took his jumper cables from battery ground to engine block and the truck fired up! I looked for the engine grounds and someone used house wire for the engine ground and it was all melted and corroded!
Thank you Paul and Caleb. Good job. Have a blessed and safe week.
Great video as always! I did fix a bmw 5 series after fixing the the valve steam seals the car will not crank only the light would light up in the dash ! Turns out to be , the only one ground wire that it had was pull off when I jack up the engine, it took me. A Week to find it , I was very frustrated but I did find it , Bmws have very poor ground wires I’m sure that’s the source of many bmw problems! Take care danner your videos are so inspiring God bless you
You have not lived till you tell the customer on them BMW labor is $150.00 to replace that starter. As you have to take the Intake off. It's mounted on top of the Engine. In the rear under it..
Master Chief 00117 I’ve done Bmw starters on Bmws I yes I lived that last Bmw starter I charged $550 with the starter and labor ! Keep it up and God bless you too brother in Christ
Watched this to the end❤ just coz of you and your mom’s preciousness, even tho my car issue was something else! Blessings to you and your moms, proper sweet how proud she is of you and how you treat her! Reminded me and my mom whenever am home and I fix anything😂❤
Thank you brother. I love my mom
Exselete diagnostic amigo. Nice. Video
Bro you're too smart for me. If somebody would have called me to come and diagnos that car, I would have taken my multimeter put one probe on the ground and one probe on the starter post and tried to crank. I turn the key and if we drop more than a volt or 2, we replace the starter. Would that test have worked here?
As a long time Chrysler tech I have seen that happen hundreds of times. Starters have tendency to go bad in a heartbeat. Why was the engine replaced? How many miles on it. Was that the original starter? Those are the kind of questions I would ask. A great channel Scanner Danner. I'm a new subscriber and the more I watch your videos the more I like the way you teach. After all these years turning wrenches I don't mind telling anybody I'm still learning. Don't worry about the naysayers, keep up the good work, folk like me really get kick out of it. Thanks a lot. 😎🤜🤛
Thank you so much!
At the end of the day you have put time and money into your trade. If you fix a fault that a garage can't fix they are paying for your years of experience, time and travel costs. If you fix one fault ,and have to return for more work then you should charge . It would cost that garage more in parts trying to fix the fault then your time. In the uk most garages would charge £50 pounds or more just to do a diagnostic scan. Keep up the good work Paul your worth your weight in gold shawn uk tec
Danner is my last name :-) First name is Paul but thank you my friend!
The bible says that a man skilled in his trade, kings will request him, (PETE,JAMES, YOUR FRIENDS) u charge what you want, you have saved people collectively millions of dollars, have you ever thought of it in that way, thanks again Paul
Your not over charging your skills and talent cost money 💰...
I'm actually not charging at all anymore, just wanted you guys to know how to bill something like this out. Thank you!
not at all ? So currently your profession is to teach at the college and for Pete and your brother you do it for free, for a friend and family ? No criticism at all, just interested :)
@@bobl78 friends and family take their cars to Pete or my brother 😉
I just pretend to work on them these days
Overcharging?!! PU--LEEZE!!! Do these people understand the cost and time involved to acquire these skills? When I went to trade school in '95, it cost $12k back then for the basics. What about the cost of tools? The scanner you had costs $10K. The U-Activate cost $200--When you can find them in stock! This is Not including basic handtools which can easily be in the tens of thousands. What about the constant training that isn't free and usually involves travel costs as well. You charge like $70 an hour? That includes your time, fuel, vehicle cost plus wear and tear, insurance, business related costs, etc. on top of what I already mentioned. Then you have thousands of unbillable hours through the years just studying your craft to stay on top of your game. Technology is great, but it comes with a steep learning curve!
I suggest these armchair mechanics repair it themselves--if it's so easy--and leave those that make a living actually repairing vehicles everyday alone! If it wasn't worth what you charge (and more) people wouldn't pay your price. Period!!!
You would be cheap at twice the price brother!
Final check, gotta make sure the starter has a good ground. I watched one of your videos to trouble shoot a no crank problem and from your video I determined that I needed a new starter but and that's a big butt, I did not do the final check. I got a new starter and got under the van to remove the starter and wa la. One of the bolts holding the starter in had a stud off it that the ground connected to and that nut holding the ground wire was loose.
Another great video by the dynamic duo. Way to go Batman and .... oops I mean Professor and Caleb.
I love your videos! Easy to understand and very knowledgeable! (Female farm girl, that loves to fix vehicles!)
U should have told ur friend that t engine has siezed causing consequential damage to t starter 😅
lol
Aeswave NEEDS to remanufacture the uActivate kits!! I want want so damn bad!
Well, that's kind of the case that I had with my 2009 Subaru Forester. I had a code and check engine light, checking everything but the new part I changed a week ago. Finally, the new part came out to be faulty and replacing it solved the problem. The cause for that anyway, some gunk into the plug after washing the engine with pressure washer making intermittent contact, and cooking the sensor itself all of a sudden. You're right, stories being told are great to listen to, but shouldn't necessary be our decision to make. You don't know what happened along the way swapping the engine.
I had a '94 Tempo that had a bad fuel pump relay. The shop manual was wrong on it's location. I called Ford parts service, they were wrong. I checked another shop manual, it was wrong. Three incorrect locations. I traced the wire to the relay from the pump and I found the relay, not even in ANY of the locations shown. It was in a box on the left side strut tower. What the Hell was that ?! Lol. Now that made no sense at all !
My car won't start..it feels like a vacuum type issue? I stepped on the brake and it didn't go down all the way?
Ford Taurus
Scanner Danner AKA sherlock holmes! That took you like 15 minutes to figure out. Impressive 😎
Only stupid people/ viewers would accuse u of being greedy. Its SO obvious ur teaching diagnosis methods first and foremost.
What happened when you were using the scanner and there was a transmission temperature reading over 1,000 degrees?
Time frame please
5:41
@@ethanscott8782 ah yeah, these early Chrysler's had some issues with their transmission fluid temp sensors providing b.s. data. Ignore it, no problem here at all. The transmission fluid temp sensor signal voltage at 2.39 volts would be a normal signal and the transmission fluid temp sensor degree f is the b.s. data
Omg brother as much as i love your video's with the wealth of information and procedures given, if i actually could afford some of the high tech fancy tools you have an arsenal of i dont think id be watching these video's if had knowledge on the meaning from results given from high tech tool, im still in the old school era of test light and ohm meter, though must admit i do own injector pulse testing kit and short to ground locator, still crums c compared to your equipment hell dont see majority of mechanic shops with gadgets you have 😅 love videos thankyou for sharing your wisdom very helpful as problem will be crossed sooner or later 🫡
Regarding your block ground test with the test light - The process of turning the key to crank sends battery power to the starter, thru the starter and because the starter does not have a path back to the battery, (no block ground), the test light with its own path to ground provides a path for that power and lights up.... Do I understand that correctly? - BTW - thanks so much for all you do!
I used to have one of those cars.. What a POS! My wife wanted a convertible...
Everything works until it's broken, why do people have a problem realising this.
That starter was so bad the hammer didn't even fix it 😄. Thanks for sharing!
wow! , really it was a great professional diagnosis. Thank you so much bro
Never mind. Didn't realize you had already put it in the description.
I always learn something from u videos. Thanks man ur the best..
just changed engine....something not connected properly
over charge? no way paul those arm chair guys cant fix a ham sandwich
haha I know, right?
I don't believe anyone. unless I see it myself. Separate issue separate charge done
Hey Paul. Thank you.
And thank your mother. !
Give her a big hug ( normal one). I've recently learned JUST how Important they are ?
Were*.
Basic testing is best important for everyone
A doctor doesn't do free diagnostic work why should you.
Paul Just a quick question, did you check what the fault in the starter was ? I more than suspect the solenoid ,but just wondering if you did check.Regards Joe
I did not but I agree, something within the solenoid most likely
Do you have a part number for your relay test tool? Thanks.
Pete needs an A Tech lol. But hey it’s good business for the Danner
i never thought of using test light in a voltage drop test like you did with that ground to ground on starter that totally makes sense for vd,infact i wonder if doing this with led light would find voltage drops that are much smaller.for vd testing low amperage circuits.of course my meter would be best but i love having these ideas in my back pocket.i love test lights for low tech quick checks.
also curious if your test light type videos get more views since most of us dont have these expensive scanners and scopes
I think you're right about the LED light, but I never use them in troubleshooting because of inaccuracies with it (showing you a good power when there is only 4v on a circuit for example).
As for views? Yes most likely. Many people think that because I use expensive test equipment, that they can't learn from the procedures and so they move along. Unfortunately
Thank you teacher for teach as how to charge for diagnostic fee thank you so much you are the best
I've lost count of how many times I've heard, "But it can't be that - it's NEW!", with all the new part failures that happen these days. Sort of the same thought here - may have just been a coincidence that this starter was at the end of its life, and its very last crank was to move the car into the shop for the engine swap. The way things are made today, you're lucky to get a year out of a new starter sometimes.
Funny, usually the same people who complain about an hour's worth of labor are the ones that'll spend $8 for a stupid coffee 7 days a week at the local yuppie hipster coffee shop, 2-3x a day. Most people just don't understand the systems on modern cars - they're basing their thoughts on something they heard from, or has been passed around from a mechanic 35 or more years ago. The 1996 model year changed EVERYTHING.
Great stuff as always, brother Paul! That uActivate tool is on the long list of things I need. I just went and bought a paramotor, so the funds have been depleted for the moment. Had to take care of the mental health first, lol. :D Lookout! Smitty's a pilot now! :D :D
I would like to see a video with success stories from former students.
@13.27 you checked the starters ground, but you had the test light connected to a ground. That test light won't light unless you have it connected to battery positive checking for ground. Correct me if I'm wrong
If the ground is bad, that test light will light when connected to battery ground. Sounds weird doesn't it? Check this one out th-cam.com/video/GQvLHQVtC0Y/w-d-xo.html
yes , you definitely charge more !!
I knew it was the starter not a hard problem to fix so tcm and ecm controls the starter and grounds the starter on Chrysler vehicles also first check battery and alternator then you go more in depth starter etc you can also hit the starter it will work one last time but you have to change the starter if not your stranded
My friend has a dodge van and his starter would click. He tried to jump it and it did the same thing. He went and had a new starter installed and the same thing happened with the clicking. He checked the starter motor and it worked outside the vehicle. I think he has a wiring problem. What's is your idea of my friend's problem? If you also think it might be an electrical problem would I be able to tell with a test light?
Actually, I corrected myself in the video. The TCM does NOT control the starter relay at all, it just has a monitored circuit that is tied into the relay.
@@michaelpearce8661 for sure! just make sure you do ALL tests while holding the key in the crank position and also make sure you are touching on the bolt and not the eyelet of the main bat post. I've seen issues there
Doesn't the PCM require some sort of neutral interlock signal before grounding the starter relay coil? Does it come from the TCM or from a separate safety switch?
Top material as usual. Even on the free channel.
Great video Paul, and if anyone thinks you are greedy they are crazy. You wouldn't be making and sharing all the videos if you were greedy. (Here comes all the comments about how you are raking it in from youtube). Lol
:-) TH-cam pays but not enough to make the time involved creating videos worth it. It is why I have a premium channel and is also why other creators use patreon but thank you my friend
"Hey guys, Scanner Danner here"
*Chris Fix calls copyright lawyer.....*
lol
what if the pcm wire does not ground what ground it
Yup I agree with you it is a separate issue separate charge ..
Hi! What software do you use on your verus for wiring diagrams? Its great.
Btw another great video, thank you for all information. I wish to be like you some day..
The wiring diagrams and service information I use is a program called ShopKey (Mitchell) and is about $160 a month to gain access to it. There is a DIY version of this program where you can buy access to individual cars for $20 and you'll have access to the same service info and diagrams that I use. Here is the link to the DIY version eautorepair.adtrk.biz/?a=10817&c=24&p=r&s1=
I wonder if the keyboard warriors work for free. 😂
Mr Danner questi9n, do you know when aes wave gonna have the uactivatE tool figured I’d throw it out to you as you have the inside scoop with them....
I do not my friend. Email carlos@aeswave.com and ask him, then report back here for the rest of us :-)
Thanks man!
Fields inside the starter has an open circuit.,
Love the video mate as always... take care
Hi, I had a question for you. I bought the BlueDriver Obd2 USB and I wanted you to see how useful it is. Live data ,mode6 , abs, recalls, and much more. Really wanted your thoughts and is it worth 100$ or should that 100$ go towards something better?
Not sure, I like it but I've not used other ones like it to compare. Is it worth the $100? Yes it is.
ScannerDanner its really not bad tho
Paul, hello awesome video/info i went to AES website and they do not have the uAtivate tool for sale do you know what other company sale it and always appreciate the time for showing all ur videos. thank you and cheeeeers
AESWAVE is the manufacturer of that tool and they do still carry it, it is just on back order. Email carlos@aeswave.com and tell him I sent you and I'm sure you'll get put on the list
My favourite tool.......just need to learn how to use it 🤣🤣🤣
lol for sure! I think I got it now
Working heavy lines for a while, no reason to mess with the park/neutral switch on motor r&r for that car. Just cable disconnects.
I would've made sure batt cables clean & tight, test light at starter for control signal.
Not seen the whole video yet sorry.
Who the hell puts a new engine in a 2000 Chrysler Seabring???? Thats problem #1.
lol
Puede subir algun video en español
My life master hai you are good master where can I finds your lovely EEs tester and how is cast..l am from sultan of Oman...
Visit my website and you find my tool pages there www.scannerdanner.com
Thanks!
Thanks guys for sharing this was a good one looking foward to the other videos you’re editing. I’m with you, we are no non profits we need to charge for our time and diag... Jay
Why didn’t Pete or his other techs diagnose the faulty starter. Diagnosing faulty starter motors is very easy. All techs can do this.
that is a good question
Paul Danner!!!! Awesome video
If the heavy cable after connected that’s the power wire ground off to the block can that damage the starter solenoid and causes the car not to crank?
If the heavy cable grounds to the block you will have a fire on your hands as those cables are typically not fuse protected. But no, that would not hurt the starter
I always end up working harder and not smarter :(
Sucks to be me !!!
we all do that sometimes my friend
That was good we'll explained
Dan they are not keyboard warriors, they are keyboard ninjas. lol Very good video
Thanks man, oh and btw my name is Paul Danner :-)
Time is money and never be afraid to charge your worth!
We used to pull the starter and bench test it as a final test to remove any doubt.
That's an unloaded test and there are vibrations involved in removing a starter. Meaning a bad one may work once you take it out. Learn to trust your measurement and you won't need to do this anymore. Make sense?
on some chry product they build the relays into the pdc on the electronic board
Yes sir, in the TIPM
If your too busy with work then your not charging enough, if your not busy at all your charging too much, if your workload is manageable then your rate is correct. Value your knowledge people will pay for quality knowledge and experience.
Awesome. South Aftica
Totaly with you here. Example changeing a headlamp pulp dosent mean it will turn on after the change of the pulp if it has other problems in it circuit.
Ones fast shop replaysed both headlamp pulps as customer wanted them both be new. Next shop replaysed them again shortly as they when out fast and didnt get light out after replaysing.
...what happend? well the firsth shop didnt but back the headlamp pulp covers correctly and water get in side. and as these was xenon headlamp units it ment that the headlamp control unit was simming in water in its own summer pool ;)
That ment simple cheap pulp chage get real costy in long run as only one unit was close to 1000usd and both of them was out + you needed te remove mutch more staff a round to change them.