@@racheljackson4428 well heres some proof, sirius not being interested in any girls at his school when he himself is a hormonal teenager which i'm aware this is gonna gain a lot of arguments. but think about it for a second, he didn't "notice" all the girls fawning over him and didn't bother interacting with them, then there's the fact that he always preferred to hang out with his guy-friends aka james, remus, and peter. Even though wolfstar isnt cannon, I still say Sirius is a closet homosexual if not asexual but asexuality also wasn't referenced back then. They didn't have a word for it. So my theory is closet gay. And again, he was a teenager, and teenagers you know they are going through changes which lead to sexual thoughts, certain types of relationships may grow whether its romantic or just physical. You know when your seventeen, its pretty normal that they think about sex at that age if not fifteen or sixteen. There teen years, they are going through hormones so its really normal. At least this is what my teacher taught me when discussing sex-education. Either way it seemed like Sirius was either hanging our with his friends or bullying severus. Which ooh perhaps he's into Severus and bullied Snape because he was "bored" no he was doing it for attention, for Snapes attention. Heck yea if not Wolfstar then we gotta ship SnakeStar! But on a more Sirius note (pun intended) I will say that Sirius is definitely in the closet for something. If not homosexual then Sirius is asexual, but again due to it not really being a known thing back then-there really was no word to describe the lack in sexual interest in others. The LGBTQIA+ community is expanding its letters and giving better names with definitions on certain sexual preferences however Sirius came from the 1970s - 80s and 90s where the LGBTQIA+ community was just Transgender people, Lesbians, Bisexuals, and Homosexuals. They didn't have other grammar terms than that, they had descriptions but not descriptive words. Asexuality wasn't a known thing. Which if you think about it, it's pretty sad cause they were narrow minded down to minimal thinking about human preference which I don't think there should be a limit to human preference, theres boundaries that should be placed (like children and animals because thats considered sexual abuse) but the choice of preference should not be limited to gay, straight, or bisexual. People back then should've been allowed to explore their preferences surrounding pansexuality and asexuality and the nonbinary. However before the 1900s came the 1800s which were stingy around homosexuality. Seriously homophobia is a trip at how far back that goes, it goes to the point where people were unable to discover themselves, which is why we're now suddenly seeing all these asexuals and pansexuals, it was suppressed so badly to the point were people could not figure out definitions sooner in life rather than later in the 2000s. I dunno I think it's just crazy. I'm against closed-minded people though and an ally to the LGBTQIA+. edit: i also want to add that wolfstar not only makes sense but it would've brought diversity to the series. which i know is saying a lot but if drarry couldn't happen then wolfstar at least needed to. the fandom gets attacked everyday as it is because JK Rowling is an open TERF. so..this is their justice in the form of ships. 😮💨 and yknow dealing with close minded people are a real drag, especially those who've touched the hearts of kids and then turn around and spew transphobic crap, when there were a lot of trans people who grew up with the harry potter series and for JK Rowling to turn around and bash on the community is just a hassle and bs.
I'm a firm believer in the fact that love isn't always romantic or limited to family. The four marauders were pretty close as a group, so the affectiate terms you mentioned could easily be just platonic/brotherly love for James and Sirius.
@@Will_Rules isn’t there enough gay shit for these people to fawn over? Like it’s a children’s book, these are probably the same weirdos that back the agendas being pushed today or are so ignorant they have no clue.
In my personal opinion as much as I love wolfstar, I accepted that it isn't canon because I always did feel that Remus and Sirius love each other as brothers. As much as I love their relationship, I love how they see each other as family. Even tho they aren't canon, I still love the idea of them being brothers by heart!
@@AudreyArnett-si3ss Exactly! Just because two guys are close doesn't mean you should ship them, it's usually the toxic shippers who start the fighting with the people who ship Remadora.
From my perspective as a trauma specialist, I'd say that Lupin didn't feel worthy of love and had a fear that he could be a bad influence on Tonks and probably also their son. I think the fact he even thought about that is proof that he did love Tonks. He just had to make peace with his low self esteem.
@@jigyasaagarwal9462 its kind of a joke of saying that remus was getting a black one way or another lol (because tonks was a black, same as sirius) and the comment could be also a slight reference of the song "back to black from amy whinehouse, idk)
I do believe that Remus loved Tonks. However, he had years of self loathing to deal with. He is terrified that Teddy will be like him and is upset that Tonks’ family is disappointed in her marriage (essentially putting her at odds with her family). He doesn’t like that he has made her an outcast. If he didn’t love them he wouldn’t care.
id agree with that but how readily he was willing to leave tonks while she ewas pregnant makes me doubt this. the self loathing thing you mentioned would have according to me turned into guilt but he wouldnt have left her with her parents if he really loved her
@@jigyasaagarwal9462 I can see where you’re coming from but interestingly Remus’ thinking is kind of similar to Harry’s. It’s a sort of hero complex. Harry would try to do dangerous things on his own without his friends. Not because he didn’t care about his friends but BECAUSE he cared about them. Remus is similar. He thinks his family is better off without him/will have a better life without him BECAUSE he loves them. Elsa from Frozen has the same mindset as well. She still loves her sister but thinks she’s better off without her. It’s Harry calling Remus a COWARD that changes his thinking. Seeing his actions as the opposite of heroic probably would have caused Remus to realize that he was doing was only hurting his family.
@@alyssakays367idk you do you but i wouldnt call remus having a hero complex like harry. he was, forgive me, if not coward then definitrly traits of that. this isnt just about leaving tonks but also how he never stopped james and sirius bullying snape when it was his literal job to
@@jigyasaagarwal9462 how was it his job to stop them lmao. He was a kid too and kids can be mean just like snape was to them. But also, it wasnt bullying, but more a rivalry. Snape himself hexed people with his friends and they used dark magic. Plus he went around calling people of his own best friend's kind racist slurs like mudblood. That is more bullying than anything else, Remus is a tragic character who has lived a life full of prejudice and discrimination. It is very understandable that he would not want his own wife and son to face similar discrimination.. all his friends are dead or turned traitor and so the poor soul doesnt have many confidants left either. His headspace can only be understood if you want to see and understand his situation.
So I’m a Wolfstar shipper and I’m currently reading all the young dudes (one of the most famous marauders fanfic, also Wolfstar slow burn). I just want to point out the difference between the American version of PoA and the British version. The American one was the obviously the one you showed in the video, but the British one has more affection to the hug. I don’t remember how it’s phrased, I just remember that it got changed when scholastic got their hands it.
@@VioletEmerald I remember this being tackled (with some humour), in the video Are They Gay? - Remus Lupin and Sirius Black (Wolfstar) by Alexander Avila (check from 7:31 .... but really, the whole video is a gem).
I understand not necessarily believing in wolf star but saying Sirius was in love with James because they were best friends is a bit insulting. Just because some is attracted to the same sex doesn’t mean they instantly fall in love with their same sex friend. It’s the same with opposite sex friendships, always annoys me when people think Harry and Hermione should have ended up together. Sometimes a platonic friendship is just that and that makes it even more special. Other than that, great video, I always enjoy your takes on the fandom xx
Via this logic romione shouldn’t have been canon either because ron and hermione were friends before they were dating. what are people only allowed to like non canon ships of they are enemies to lovers???
You should do a video about how you think the future of Katniss and Peeta would be like. Kind of similar to the one you made about what could happen if Katniss shot Snow instead of Coin.
The Sirius ignoring girls was mentioned like once when he was in exams. I just assumed he was playing it cool as if he’s carelessly handsome, it means he probably had a lot of options
I respect whatever Morgan said. And frankly I never thought I'd see a video about Wolfstar on this channel lol. Most of the Marauders fandom IS based on fanfiction. We might not have evidence that Wolfstar is not cannon, and it might not even be cannon. But I love these ships after reading the fanfictions. And I feel like most of the people in the fandom know it's not cannon, we are just living our life in headcannons, fanfictions and denial lol. I loved the video!
First of all, I had never heard of Wolfstar prior to this video. Your theory leaves out some crucial details, specifically how the LGBT community was treated in the 90s, how the wizarding community would feel additional conflict (bloodline purity + how Dumbledores relationship with Grindelwald ended), and the necessity of having to hide a relationship amidst all of the turmoil they went through individually. One could posit that Remus is bisexual, Sirius is gay, and Dumbledore was aware + a mentor to both of them as a gay man himself. They kept the relationship secret knowing the strife they'd get, and when Remus loses both his lover and his mentor, his fall off of the deep end at the beginning of book 7 makes more sense. Additionally, we're seeing the world through Harry's lenses, and he has never been exposed to that from what we saw.
It’s definitely not cannon, but I think most would agree they would have made a great couple. They were at the very least great co-parents filling the dad role Harry needed. 🐺⭐️
in harry potter we were often told that death is not as bad as a dementor's kiss "a fate much worse than death" or something like that is often implied when it comes to dementors. it is also made clear that although Peter was a part of the group, the others had a completely different potential. Peter was accepted but never had the value to Remus that the others had. there are good examples of this. Of course, the question might still arise as to whether Remus would have really wanted to kill Sirius if it had turned out that he was the one who betrayed the potters. that's hard to read from the books because the story was never supposed to have a that ending. it wasn't Sirius to begin with. Personally I don't believe in the theory and even though it's a bit controversial what j.k published after the end of Harry Potter and also called canon (cursed child) I still have to admit if the author herself says that it's not the case, then sorry folks, it's not. As much as I'd like to, Harry Potter isn't real, it's a story with people there to fulfill the story. Also The fact that Sirius "didn't pay attention" to women also served to keep James' main focus from my point of view. he was placed as the center of attention; his nickname alone shows that, so he needed friends who would let him be portrayed as such. a pretty womanizer could be weakened by this image and j.k certainly just wanted to keep it more about James. I know she doesn't have a good reputation on the subject, but she had no problem proclaiming that Dumbledore was gay. and as a reader you could definitely read that. That’s a long ass paragraph and English is not my first language as you can tell. I just want to say one last thing. I have read the books multiple times. I have never ever had the vibe that Remus and Sirius were ever more then best friends.
I agree with everything you have said, except you saying that English isn’t you’re first language, your English is not just good, it is simply just English, it is brilliant, almost faultless. Well done!😊
I totally agree. I do think they have the right chemistry. If they’re ever interested in the same sex, they’d be cute together, but without being delusional you can see that that’s not the case. Plus, many wolfstar shippers claimed Remus and Tonks’ relationship came out of the blue, but J.K. did that on purpose to show that the Wizarding World doesn’t just evolves around Harry.
I always looked at their groups close friendship as one of family. They considered each other all as brothers (James, Lupin, Sirius, even worm tail to a bit), they were closer to each other then their own families and could depend on each other through good and bad times. Something that has always reflected with me as I have always done the same with my closest friends, they will always be my family.
I think it's fanfic, but a good one. They would be a good couple, I just don't think they are a couple. Also, I think Lupin is a particularly tragic character already, him being pushed into a relationship without love would be too much 😢
A few points I would like to add: 1. Even if Lupin didn’t truly deeply and perfectly loved Tonks right from the start - it doesn’t automatically make him gay. Many marriages aren’t perfect and it takes time to develop healthy loving relationship. 2. About Sirius “ignoring” girls. In high school I saw this phenomenon often (both for girls as well). There are many reasons people might behave this way. What is important to understand is that Sirius went to Azkaban and never head a proper chance to create a family… only to come back from prison to the new unfolding war and die before it even starts.
I agree with your points on how Lupin reacted to Dumbledore's death versus Sirius's, however I want to add that Dumbledore's death caused a lot more issues than Sirius's. Lupin losing control was likely out of sadness, but also fear. They were in the middle of a war. People were being taken from the streets daily and the Wizarding World was dark, gloomy, filled with destruction. Now the most powerful wizard was dead - the only wizard Riddle feared. Of course Lupin would lose control. The pain of Dumbledore dying would be different to Sirius. Sirius was Lupin's childhood friend, and somebody who he was very close to. Maybe he didn't totally lose control, but you can tell he was in so much pain. Sirius's death, however, wouldn't lead to the decimation of the Wizarding (and muggle) World, but Dumbledore's did. That's why Lupin reacted the way he did.
Well, could we, please, let friends be friends? And I mean, both same sex pairs (like Lupin and Sirius) and different sex ones (like Harry and Hermione). Really, the fact, that people can be "just" friends is beautiful - arguably not less than love itself
YEAHHHHH the "why cant they just be friends" is harmful sometimes but seriously, it's like two men cant show amy affection for one another without being shipped
I think that this is a great video and as a hardcore wolfstar shipper I understand the conclusion you came to. I would say that I think one of the great things about Wolfstar is the story would simply be better if it was canon. All the evidence for it that you listed in favour of it, and even the things you said debunked it, all lead to deeper, more interesting characterisations. It adds depth and complexity to their stories, particularly Remus' that is sorely lacking. There is so much queer subtext in both of their characters, it just makes sense to me. I think that an important point to note, is that while I think JKR never intended for Wolfstar to be a thing, Section 28 was still a thing in the UK when the books were being written. This restricted the 'promotion' of LGBT issues to children by local authorities. So she would not have gotten any queer themes passed editors until it was revoked in 2003 in case it would be banned in schools etc. In my mind, I believe she planned to make Remus gay based on the HIV parallels and backed out once she saw how popular Wolfstar got immediately following PoA. Besides, bisexual people exist. Remus could have been in love with Sirius, lost him, and then fallen in love with Tonks. I know a lot of comments are saying let friends just be friends, but that's an argument you see against any LGBT ship, there are many platonic deep friendships in Harry Potter, Wolfstar wouldn't take away from that. Also I think it's important to remember that the entire series is told from Harry's point of view, his perspective is limited and so it is perfectly believable that he did not pick up on what was happening in other characters lives outside of his story. When it comes to the point of the prank etc. I do agree that is one of the biggest issues. But honestly, I think that's bad writing. Because I struggle to see how or why Sirius would put Remus in danger like that even as his best friend. I think that was a case of JKR not really thinking the implication through of how it would affect Remus. So while I do agree that based on canon text, it was never intended. But it absolutely makes the story better for it to be true. It's the main reason that I never want a mauraders show. Because that dynamic would be one of the most interesting to follow. If you haven't read it, I highly recommend reading All The Young Dudes. It's the only fanfic I would actively recommend to non-fanfic readers. It is mostly faithful to canon while exploring each character, particularly Remus' in far more detail. I'd love to know your thoughts about it if you did read it.
I think the “he got all the women” was about all of the girls liking him not necessarily him dating all the girls, and Harry also thought tonks was in love with Sirius. so while it’s not the most believable, I think it works
good video!!! that was a really nice surprise. as a wolfstar shipper, i enjoyed watching it and hearing someone else's opinion. i have some different thoughts on some points, but in general i'm quite surprised that i agree with you! while i do not think that in canon they were definitely a couple, every little "clue" to the wolfstar theory just proves that they have some chemistry. some fanfiction can be amazingly good, such as the one and only "all the young dudes" (which i cannot recommend enough). the author of that fanfic explores some stuff that debunked their relationship, e.g. the infamous prank and the whole "thinking that the other one is a spy" thing. so, nice vid, and i hope other people enjoyed it just as much as i did. helped me look on their relationship from another angle!
I’m bi myself and ships drive me crazy. Why can’t two people just be friends, why does everything have to be a ship. Personally, I think Sirius is just apart of that free love generation ( it was the 70s ) and would screw everyone he sees and be a bit of a player at hogwarts, seeing how he is a rebel, he probably wasn’t involved romantically with women, but definitely got physical with a few girls at Hogwarts, but more like one night stands. And I think that’s what Remus meant by “ always getting the woman,” and what was meant by “ not interested,” ( I could see him experimenting with guys, but I think, due to their personality differences, he would not go for Remus.) Remus on the other hand I believe he really did love Tonks, but had other issues he was dealing with before he can get romantically involved. Taking care of Harry, controlling Sirius, werewolf problems, and war. I think he was devastated after Sirius died and took those missions during book 6, as a way of morning, but I think it’s just because he lost his last childhood friend. There are also cases where people with deformities, or addicts, have this self-hatred. They don’t spend time with their love ones just like what we saw with Remus and Tonks, it’s not because they’re not in love with the person it’s, because they have doubts about themselves. Which is one reason why I like Remus and Tonks He bubbly happy and caring personality really helped Remus get over moaning and self-hatred. I think he was more willing to kill Peter, because he was angry and probably not thinking rationally, during the stressful situation in shrieking shack, not to mention, I would also argue that peters crimes are a lot more worse than what Sirius was accused
The cast were asked what parts from the books they were sad didn't make it into the movies were, David Thewlis (Remus) and Natalia Tena (Tonks) said, "Our Story". I don't think they would have said that if they didn't believe it was strong. I don't believe Remus loved anyone in that way except Tonks, he was just terrified to hurt her or give her a werewolf baby.
I agree with all of your individual points, and I think you did an excellent job of going through everything in the books and debunking movie clips. However, I still feel that it’s possible Remus and Sirius were together at one point, and perhaps not for a long time. In my opinion, the biggest points against Wolfstar would be when Sirius says he wishes it was the full moon (because he’s bored) in Snape’s Worst Memory and when Sirius risks Remus’ innocence by telling Snape how to get past the Whomping Willow.
Personally I was more inclined towards wolfstar since I just liked Tonks being a single badass, Teddy can be adopted or through some magic macguffin - as long as teddy still exists - he's just too cute to ignore
@@Arlostardustthats actually not so headcannon, i dont remember the exact wording but i do rmr molly mentioning while talking about that bill was hurrying marring fleur that people hurry through processes like marriages and family in the phase of war seeing that their lives might be ending soon, wanting to live a more fulfilling time when they see they might not have as much left, she also mentioned thats what happened with her and arthurs marriage
And I feel like the reason Lupin was not ok with Sirius getting the Dementors Kiss and only a few months later ok with killing Peter is because it is said many times throughout the books that it is a fate worse than death. Lupin never said Sirius didnt deserve to be in prison for what they thought he did. He also was emotional that night he threatened to kill Peter. I think if he had thought on it a few minutes he would have changed his mind. I think he felt particularly betrayed by Peter because he brought him into the group and had stuck up for him all those years ago.
I’m a Wolfstar shipper and have unashamedly written stuff myself 🤣🤭 but I see both sides! I like either them being together or them just being great friends! I think it can be whatever you want it to be 💁🏻♀️ love the video! You’ve done a great with this 😄❤️
I honestly think that it would be a bad idea to make a movie or a series about the Marauderbecause of all the ships the fan base created. If you make it but don't put Sirius or Remus together, Regulus and James and whatever other ships that are popular among the fan base, the fans are going to be incredibly upset and some might even want to boycott the serie/ movie. Plus let's be real, it's only in the fanfiction that the characters are nice because the marauders were actually a big bully group with two narcissistic and egotistical James and Sirius as members, not sure it would be that interesting to see them being jerk....
James and Sirius had to have had plenty of redeeming qualities. They were amongst the most popular students in the school, not only amongst students, but also staff. James turned his attitude around, revealing more of his noble side in later years, attracted a great woman, was described as a good person, etc. In addition, the Marauders were primarily mean to Snape, who was not a nice guy.
It would be EXTREMELY messy, because in the marauders universe James is with Regulas Sirius is with Remus Lily is with whatever her name was And idk who madelynn mcannon is I don't think she was even mentioned being a marauder. Maybe I need to reread the series again.
I didn't recall the moment as teens that Sirius was a jerk in canon. Severus Snape and James Potter I see as jerks in canon in many ways. I haven't even heard of James/Regalus until this conversation btw. Sirius/Lupin is popular but in my world that's alongside James/Lily as a popular ship... and then Peter Pettigrew is the odd one out
15:43 It's actually interesting how the "Lupin embraced Black like a brother" is only like that in the American translation. In other translations it describes the hug way more vividly, and like in the movie.
I’ve personally always had a thing in my head that as much as Harry Potter cannon is the books is the ‘actual’ story it wasn’t the full story. For example the war. As much as we see the darkness if it were a reality it would be much more horrific. Wolfstar could have also existed for all we know.
I always got the impression that Sirius was Ace since he never really showed a romantic inclination towards anyone. I also have seen some relationships where depression has made someone appear to not love their partner or made them make really odd decisions. All in all I think this theory is more of a bust.
@@FishysONTOP I haven’t. I say that whenever a new video comes out so that MovieFlame notices me before a tsunami of comments come along. He is literally my favorite TH-camr so I really want him to notice me. 😅
Same. I just saw a more brotherly connection since Sirius was ostracized by his own family, and I'm sure Lupin even commented on how Sirius and James seemed like family to him because they didn't care that he was a werewolf, even going as far as becoming animagi to remove the risk of being turned by him if he bit them while transformed. That's not romance. That's friendship.
I think it started because the actors of Remus and Sirius thought they were a couple. David Thewlis was even surprised when in order or the Phoenix he went with tonks because he had it in his head that Remus was gay
I don't really think we need proof for anything here. Everyone can make whatever they want out of the story JKR has written. Actually, there are a lot of explanations in wolfstar fanfics (e.g. ATYD) that are able to clear up the things speaking against the ship in this video. So in my opinion both sides are valid and there shouldn't be a discussion. Wolfstar can definitely exist within the canon story.
Agree! Shipping is its own thing - drives me crazy why people need to dig into the source material to build a case for something having canon support. There are some great stories out there for all ships - either read & enjoy or scroll on by if it’s not your thing. It’s called “transformative work”for a reason!
Isn’t ATYD far from being canon compliant tho? The story made Remus a feral working class kid (meanwhile the only working class kid in books is Snape) who was hated by his own parents among other things.
@@ackerose yeah there are definitely aspects in ATYD that aren't canon. i was just saying that the fic offers explanations to the "proofs" against wolfstar taken from the canon story in this video (as i don't think we should be having this discussion in the first place)
Something to consider for Sirius and James always being paired together is to consider the time period. This was the 70s so if Sirius and Remus were dating they may have avoided being together, just the two of them, around other people in case people started catching on
If the theory was true (Which I don't think it is, never did.) Sirius would be gay and Remus would be Bi because of the inclusion of I forget her name.
*Why Wolfstar sucks and makes no sense:* Firstly, I like the Marauders being bffs with a brotherhood. So I think any romance between them, be it Starbucks or Woflstar would just ruin that dynamic and this is usually what happens in the Wolfstar fanfics and headcanons I come across. Also, in NO WAY is this post meant to be an attack on anything LGBTQ. Secondly, I think Wolfstar is mostly based on headcanons and even fanon rather than canon. There’s nothing indicating compatibility in canon. Or even if we can use certain canon info to support their compatibility, there’s definitely more canon info supporting James and Sirius’s compatibility. In other words, there isn’t anything indicating them as more compatible than J and S. Yes, James was straight and married Lily, but Remus was also straight and married Tonks. And Rowling has said that not only was Sirius not gay, but that he was too busy being a rebel to settle down in a relationship (let alone getting married). So if we dismiss Starbucks on James’s canon sexuality, we’d have to do the same with Wolfstar on their canon sexualities. And no, I don’t ship Starbucks. But the reason I bring up Starbucks is because I never understood why Wolfstar is shipped more than Starbucks when canon clearly shows Starbucks with a deeper connection. Even J and S scene shows them in synch with each other. The same can’t be said for Wolfstar who also have problematic elements like Sirius’s werewolf prank, Sirius saying he wished it was fullmoon in SWM, and them mistrusting each other with the whole ‘I think he's a death eater spy because his family is dark/because he's a werewolf.’ Another big problem with Wolfstar is how their ship often takes away James’s importance in Sirius and Remus’s lives as their bff and downplays his relationship with the both. Most of the time when I come across Wolfstar fanfics or headcanons, it always involves them being closer than J and S. It always downplays the close relationship that both Remus and especially Sirius had with James. It always show Sirius being closer to Remus and being annoyed and belittling of James. It even often shows Sirius getting jealous and threatening James if he hugged Remus or complimented Remus. That’s clearly not canon because canon makes it clear James was the one who both Remus and Sirius were the most closest with in their group and that James preferred these two (especially Sirius) the most. I’ve so far never come across any Wolfstar fic that didn’t at least at some points annoy or frustrate me with downplaying James’s relationship with both Sirius and Remus and taking away James’s important role in both their lives. I dislike anything that takes away his importance or downplays his relationship with any character, be it Sirius, Remus, Harry, Lily, Dumbledore, McGonagall, or Hagrid. *Conclusion:* There’s nothing that makes Wolfstar any more canon that any fanon ship for most fans to agree it’s canon. Saying they’re essentially canon doesn’t make them canon. There’s no evidence for any romantic entanglement between them. So they aren’t canon. There isn’t any evidence they’d make a good couple either. Plus, Rowling has confirmed that neither Remus nor Sirius are gay when a fan asked. So they definitely weren’t canon. But of course they’re just as valid of a ship as any fanon ship like Harmony, etc.
17:14 “This heart is where you truly live! This heart, here!” Thank you for bringing up this line! Let’s discuss it briefly, because Sirius says something very very similar to Harry in OOTP (book and movie) about heart, and again in DH2 (book and movie) as a resurrected form. Thus, unless sirius was also in love with harry, then clearly it’s just something Sirius says to people he cares about and not to people he wants to be in homosexual relationships with.
Two men can be friends that hug, Two men can be overall polite and nice to each other , Two men can be alone without kissing .... is just a very nice and close friendship . This is my two cents friends! cheking the evidence, there is no enough to support the *WolfStar hyphotesis* 🥰
That's your opinion. Mine is that wolfstar isn't canon, but a fan theory that I like and support. That's my 2 sense. Anyone else wanna share a.different opinion?
obviously there's not enough evidence to support it lmao. the marauders are literally based entirely on fanon. it's a fandom for a reason. anything that has to do with them is going to be, most likely, fanmade, unless pulled directly from the series. that's unlikely tho, because we have very little info on them in the books.
Honestly I don't think it's really there but fun to piss off JK. The AIDS and Lupus connection in her mind is really flocked up. Honestly this is probably just another post facto Imagination, but you never know. I honestly read Lupins staying away from Tonx as self destructive behavior people do when having a disease. I never had children due to my own genetic disease and honestly I was always extremely paranoid about it. I really do want to play the video game on my PS5, but can't bring myself to buy it. Plan on buying a used copy. Understanding she was victim of a sexual assault and the reason why she's hateful towards Trans people lumping them in with her attacker. People are people, my dad's a racist I never understood anyone who make generalizations. Some people are good some are not. There is enough hate in the world 🌎.... I wish she would tone down the hate. I honestly would have thought that they would have gotten rid of the houses at Hogwarts in the sequel.... Guess it's not a value to her.
@@Crazyd_JK Rowling's not transphobic... If you read her original, ACTUAL tweets and not the ones made up it's not transphobic. She just says women are people who have the potential ability to menstruate and trans women are biological men. Which is true
I believe the Wolfstar theory is just fanfiction that came about because there are instances as you pointed out that were relateable to the experience of some gay individuals.However I will say as far as Lupin being "more" upset about Dumbledores death than Sirius. The situations where completely different. Lupin really couldn't lose control when Sirius died. They were in the Ministry surrounded by death eaters and there were children who needed to be protected. When he found out about Dumbledore it was "safe" . He could have lose control or broken down even worse when he was able to over Sirius. Also it was really disappointing the "storyline" Rowling put in about Tonks falling for Sirius. I always thought that was weird. Yhey weren't even like distantly related. There were close blood relatives.
As much as I like both Remus and Sirius, I really like Remus and Tonks together. Wolfstar is just something that should stay in fanfiction for me. Besides, Teddy is so cute!
I never rlly thought tonks and Remus had anything in common and they were an odd couple. Sirius and remus as a couple just makes more sense to me as they’ve been through so much together
I like the idea of Sirius having an unrequited love for James. They were inseparable best friends, almost brothers and I think it’s possible James knew, and accepted it.
This theory, and many other fan ships and theories while fun...really show that people cannot control themselves when thinking that people are just friends. They always have to think sex is involved. Whether Sirius was gay or not is irrelevant to his character and same for Lupin. But to assume two people who are as close as brothers, who have known each other for 7+ years in school and 4 years as adults, who were fighting a literal war together are "totes having sex" and "gay for each other" is well poor reading comprehension and reaching. Look i wouldnt dislike or hate the idea of Wolfstar. In fact i would openly support it, but it just is a crazy fan theory that again adds nothing to their characters and does not have enough evidence to support it. Yes Rowling actively trying to deny it in her writing was poor. But what else could she do? She had Lupin end up with Tonks, Sirius died alone albeit he had posters of bikini clad women, showed he was more into women than men if he was into men at all.
Agree with everything you said. People really go too far sometimes. Characters can care for and take care of each other and just be friends. Why do people always have to add sexual elements to something when it's not there or needed for it to be a strong relationship. It's like people don't think you can have a strong friendship and show any concern for someone without it being sexual. It's a fun theory but that's exactly what it is.
I had a friend years ago, who, young creative girl, would write various fanfic storyies herself where the main characters were explicitly two guys, always with a gay relationship. Like Harry and Draco, who both have only hetero relations throughout the series. But that was fun to her for some reason, making up those stories. I'd assume for most it is just that -- fun. But them there are those, who get somehow fixed in the idea of forcing (their own hopes or desires of the characters they possibly feel close to, or had romantic feelings towards) the alternative narrative on the characters. And in a way, that won't hurt anyone as characters in a book aren't real people and cannot be harmed. To further your point, Lord of the Rings has always been one of the books, where the author presents deep affection, friendship, companionship and respect mostly between male characters. Many just can't for some reason wrap their heads around the fact men can have deep feelings and affections without it being gay, thus making them gay.
(Tangent incoming. This is not entirely targeted at you, please don't take anything I say offensively this is more of a general overview of this godforsaken fandom) Okay, so, first of all why is it people immediately related gay relationships with sex? I always see this argument for some reason. Either people are incredibly perverted or they are on the wrong side of the Internet and it shows with how they treat fandoms where queer people can have the chance to express and project themselves onto characters, because gay people are apparently sex goblins and can't have relationships if they do not fuck every day. Not only is this ship an incredibly harmless headcanon that usually adds more than what Rowling has given to their past, I'm not sure how it adds nothing, most straight relationships are forced into stories for character development. Look at, literally every franchise, ever. Wonder why it's different know, couldn't possibly guess. Especially if it was a previous relationship in their school days, as we have quite literally nothing to go off of in what happened back then (Other than these guys are like pranksters or something and they didn't like Snape cause he's bigoted repeated over and over in a slightly altered font) What or even who else do people want gay people to relate to? Two chairs? Dumbledore? Because his queerness was not shown even in hints or subtle messaging, I will tell you right out of the gate, as someone who's been out for years and is very in tune with subtext, none exists in his regard. Genuine question here. Who else do we have that wouldn't be labled as 'bad because they're just friends' 'bad because they don't know eachother' 'bad because they hate eachother' what do we have that isn't instantly labled as 'weird' or makes us 'obsessed' when straight people do the exact same thing and then it's cute and makes so much sense. Because somehow Hermione and Snape is more fucking excusable. To me in fandoms it seems like shipping straight characters and having useless, forced straight romance shoved into the plot is okay, but when it's something fun that harms literally nobody suddenly its an issue because 'oh no, THE HOMOSEXUALS, THEY'LL HIT ME WITH THE GAY BEAM'. As someone who's interacted with the shipping side, I can genuinely tell you it's never been about 'oh they're just friends? DICKS IN ASSES LET'S FUCKING GOOOO' It's literally just been 'oh, they look cute together and have chemistry, how fun.' I'd also just like to point out how backwards the 'just friends' argument is. Ron and Hermione started off as just friends for most of the books, wasn't it up until the last one? Given that's how romances tend to start. Especially in fiction like Harry Potter where most of the characters have grown up together or known eachother for years at least. Harry and Ginny is canon and I wonder what they started off as, oh yeah, friends. Harry and Hermione is an incredibly popular ship, so popular in fact they even shoved it into Ron's paranoia, and in an affair in Cursed Child. Luna and Neville, oh guess what they were? Friends. They didn't get together, yet the fandom insists they should've. Even Mr blond bigot himself, pigfarts admirer, scraggly weasle Draco Malfoy and Hermione is, in my opinion, one of the most popular ships, for some reason?... This is all to say, there's a clear bias going on here, in every single fandom I've ever been in. It's a pattern that keeps and will never stop repeating. Scincerely, someone who's been in this overdramatic fandom for as long as I could go onto the Internet, and has actually interacted with a lot of people and ships in a lot of fandoms.
@@Fun-K-BoardYup, a lot of the het ships are insane in this fandom. So many age gaps which would grant jailtime for the over age one and most likely be categorised under (actual) grooming by this who love to claim we are the ones doing it, there's way to many ships that has the whole incest thing going on and yeah forced het ships like you say and somehow the queer community is the ones critize the most when it comes to shipping...the math is not matching!
14:22 This discussion reminds me a lot of the conversation Gandalf and Frodo have about Gollum. 'Pity Bilbo didn't kill him when he had a chance' 'Pity? It was pity that stopped Bilbo's hand. Many who live deserve death, and many who die deserve life. Can you give it to them?' I would say it is the life experience, his wisdom and years of dealing with the situation clearly makes a difference between Lupin and a young, emotional and inexperienced Harry. And when you mentioned the way Lupin reacts towards Peter, just 20 minutes before he had found out he was betrayed by him and that he was responsible for Potter's death and framing of Sirius. I don't think it was because he and Sirius had a love relationship. He would''ve reacted the same if Sirius and Lilly were married, and James ended up in Azkaban because of him. His blood was boiling and he wasn't rational. He wanted revenge. Luckily, Harry saved him from it.
as a wolfstar/moonfoot shipper: I know that its not canon. I ship it solely because it brings me comfort, and there's nothing wrong with that. You can like fanfiction and stuff, even if its not near canon, as long as its not you shipping adults and children or so on then I believe its perfectly fine. I love Lupin and Tonks's relationship and stuff, but that doesn't mean I don't enjoy wolfstar. Its a really interesting trope to go down ( I personally care more for the angst than I ever will anything else ) and it isn't harming anyone. - to add on, why can't the Harry Potter fandom js be civil??? It doesn't always need to be a one route thing and people will always go their seperate ways and thats fine. You can find comfort in a harmless silly pairing thats made up, it doesn't matter what you ship as long as you aint going out of your way to try and make others ship said thing or shipping something illegal, gross, or morally wrong ( Like James x Snape. Please get a life, its digusting...? The bully x bullied trope is really toxic in general though. )
Most the people pushing this theory probably don’t go outside and know how real people speak. So they don’t knew that they have a completely normal dynamic.
As a wolfstar shipper I do belive that they r inlove either eachother but I do belive u have made some really good points and respect your opinion. I really enjoy your videos bc they explain a lot to me thank u!
Maybe Sirius was with James so much was because they where just inseparable friends but and Sirius loved Remus but he was to shy and he didn’t want to be alone with him because both of them didn’t want it to be awkward and ruin their friendship
As for them just picking up their friendship, that's actually possible, I have a friend I've had since I was 12, am now 45, we sometimes go for years without seeing/speaking to each other, but when we get together, it's like we've never been apart
as a huuuge marauders fan i see wolfstar as like the pillar that holds everything up, if you know what i mean, i have unfortunately acknowledged that this is probably always going to be just fanon, but it’s cool to see how many actual canon references there are supporting the idea of them being gay! it’s nice to hear every opinion on the topic, both canon and fanon, and it’s important to know every side before choosing one of course, but what i have to say is that rowling really did a tough job there denying most of the evidence she had given us in prior, most of which only makes it seem out of place and almost forced
This is irrelevant to the video but I just found out that all the Harry Potter films are coming to Netflix in the UK tomorrow. It’s crazy that Harry Potter is a British film yet it took so long to put it on Netflix in the UK. 😅
She never came out and said they weren’t gay though 👀 she just tried to add things to the story that were pretty crappy writing. Watch the video and you’ll see what I’m talking about
@@MovieFlame I did, and I agree with your points. All I'm saying is, as a writer myself, if she intended for the characters to be gay, it would probably be more obvious. I'm sure this whole ship was started with fans grasping at straws.
It might not be canon but a lot of wolfstar works with canon and it’s fun to imagine that it could have been possible at the very least. I personally adore the ship, they just make sense to me as a couple. Authors don’t always know their characters best and I really do think that wolfstar was so obvious it should have been canon even if it isn’t. And at the end of the day these are all just made up people and stories and fanfics are another addition to the made up stories and wolfstar is the version I personally like best, because imagining the marauders without wolfstar just feels wrong to me, but I also understand why people wouldn’t have saw them that way
In my opinion, all J.K. had to say was, "No, they are not lovers" and that would be that. It's her story after all. She has given it to all of us, but not to change it.
Also, J.K. Rowling said that they aren't gay so ofc they are not. So you are correct, but people did start w this theory bc she unintetionaly made them rlly gay. The producer and the cast all thought they were a couple, so that explains the hug and Severus' comment. But ofc that all crashed when they realised that Remus later married Tonks.
thinking about the 40 line stare and also! sirius and james viewed each other as brothers. sirius felt safest around james because he made it quick to show that he would help him and that he cared :)
Crying- this notification made me laugh so hard, I’m a wolfstar shipper and I’ve always just said that they could possibly be canon and just went along with Wolfstar fanfiction (ex: All The Young Dudes). Being a Marauders fan makes atyd the closest thing we get to canon. Just with Wolfstar- anyway love the video man, never thought this video would be on this channel. Have a good day
I have no problem with people shipping them. What annoys me is their shippers acting crazy, hating and making stuffs up about Nymphadora to justify their irrational dislike for her.
now with the dementors kiss thing i think that Lupin genuinely believes that having your soul sucked out of you is worse than death amd doesnt wish it on anyone, better to kill them
Hope everything is all good with you movie flame i watched your video vlog a few weeks ago about your issues and im one of those fans who cares about how people are god bless ❤🙏
Morgan, do this Percy Jackson video- What Every Character’s Bogarts Are Ex: Percy- Alecto Grover- Polyphemus / Tyson Annabeth- Arachne Thalia- The Sun Chariot Luke- May Castellan / Kronos Tyson- Sphinx Nico- Humiliation for being gay Bianca - Kronos Zoë- Atlas Clarisse- Ares Chris Rodriguez- King Minos Jason- losing his memory Piper- losing Jason to Reina Leo- Hera (Tia Callida) Frank- Thanatos Hazel- Gaea Reina- losing Jason to Piper / Nico in danger Ares- Hephaestus / Kronos
Me personally I think that when Sirius died Lupin was trying to hide his feelings as by not showing as much emotion as he felt, although since Lupin and Dumbledore were never lovers he let out a regular emotion
Lupin being willing to kill Pettigrew, but not thinking Sirius deserves the dementor's kiss is only a contradiction if you think killing is worse than the dementor's kiss. Lupin could simply think the dementor's kiss is worse, which is a view expressed in the books, and that it would be better to just kill Sirius.
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100% Fanfiction. as much as i love the Prisoner of Azkaban Book, there's no proof of Sirius being gay.
Can you make a timeline of Gellert Grindelwald his whole life from when he was born to his finally end 🔥🔥🔥
@@racheljackson4428 well heres some proof, sirius not being interested in any girls at his school when he himself is a hormonal teenager which i'm aware this is gonna gain a lot of arguments. but think about it for a second, he didn't "notice" all the girls fawning over him and didn't bother interacting with them, then there's the fact that he always preferred to hang out with his guy-friends aka james, remus, and peter. Even though wolfstar isnt cannon, I still say Sirius is a closet homosexual if not asexual but asexuality also wasn't referenced back then. They didn't have a word for it. So my theory is closet gay. And again, he was a teenager, and teenagers you know they are going through changes which lead to sexual thoughts, certain types of relationships may grow whether its romantic or just physical. You know when your seventeen, its pretty normal that they think about sex at that age if not fifteen or sixteen.
There teen years, they are going through hormones so its really normal. At least this is what my teacher taught me when discussing sex-education. Either way it seemed like Sirius was either hanging our with his friends or bullying severus. Which ooh perhaps he's into Severus and bullied Snape because he was "bored" no he was doing it for attention, for Snapes attention. Heck yea if not Wolfstar then we gotta ship SnakeStar! But on a more Sirius note (pun intended) I will say that Sirius is definitely in the closet for something. If not homosexual then Sirius is asexual, but again due to it not really being a known thing back then-there really was no word to describe the lack in sexual interest in others. The LGBTQIA+ community is expanding its letters and giving better names with definitions on certain sexual preferences however Sirius came from the 1970s - 80s and 90s where the LGBTQIA+ community was just Transgender people, Lesbians, Bisexuals, and Homosexuals.
They didn't have other grammar terms than that, they had descriptions but not descriptive words. Asexuality wasn't a known thing. Which if you think about it, it's pretty sad cause they were narrow minded down to minimal thinking about human preference which I don't think there should be a limit to human preference, theres boundaries that should be placed (like children and animals because thats considered sexual abuse) but the choice of preference should not be limited to gay, straight, or bisexual.
People back then should've been allowed to explore their preferences surrounding pansexuality and asexuality and the nonbinary. However before the 1900s came the 1800s which were stingy around homosexuality. Seriously homophobia is a trip at how far back that goes, it goes to the point where people were unable to discover themselves, which is why we're now suddenly seeing all these asexuals and pansexuals, it was suppressed so badly to the point were people could not figure out definitions sooner in life rather than later in the 2000s. I dunno I think it's just crazy. I'm against closed-minded people though and an ally to the LGBTQIA+.
edit: i also want to add that wolfstar not only makes sense but it would've brought diversity to the series. which i know is saying a lot but if drarry couldn't happen then wolfstar at least needed to. the fandom gets attacked everyday as it is because JK Rowling is an open TERF. so..this is their justice in the form of ships. 😮💨 and yknow dealing with close minded people are a real drag, especially those who've touched the hearts of kids and then turn around and spew transphobic crap, when there were a lot of trans people who grew up with the harry potter series and for JK Rowling to turn around and bash on the community is just a hassle and bs.
Nope
"Is this real, or is it just fanfiction?"
"Of course it's fanfiction, Harry. Why should that mean that it's not real?"
Thank you for this comment :)
You just made the strongest point in this comment section 😅
Haha!! Nice! 👍🏻👏🏻
I feel like the word "fiction" pretty much means it's not real
@@zrob8 Technically every part of the HP mythos is fiction.
I'm a firm believer in the fact that love isn't always romantic or limited to family. The four marauders were pretty close as a group, so the affectiate terms you mentioned could easily be just platonic/brotherly love for James and Sirius.
Exactly! Why does Morgan think that every word related to affection such as 'like' or 'love' is referring to romantic love?
I am with you on this I love all my friends but I dont want to date them. Love isnt only romantic love
@@yash1756because hes trying to explain it simply to the weirdos who ship Sirius and Remus
@@Will_Rules isn’t there enough gay shit for these people to fawn over? Like it’s a children’s book, these are probably the same weirdos that back the agendas being pushed today or are so ignorant they have no clue.
THIS! Love isn't always sexual or romantic, just cause you love someone that doesn't mean you want to throw them down and have sex.
Harry: has literally seen Lupin turn into a werewolf
Also Harry: has never seen Lupin lose control before.
This is underrated 😂
Lupin does lose control in the Deathly Hallows book after he arrives at Grimmauld Place tbh
In my personal opinion as much as I love wolfstar, I accepted that it isn't canon because I always did feel that Remus and Sirius love each other as brothers. As much as I love their relationship, I love how they see each other as family. Even tho they aren't canon, I still love the idea of them being brothers by heart!
I agree but him saying prongsfoot was possible was a bit of a sting haha
@@starman_1977 lol yeah
I feel they are just really good friends.
@@AudreyArnett-si3ss Exactly! Just because two guys are close doesn't mean you should ship them, it's usually the toxic shippers who start the fighting with the people who ship Remadora.
For sure, but I don't see why Remus couldn't be in love with them both.... people do have more than one romantic love during their lifetime.
From my perspective as a trauma specialist, I'd say that Lupin didn't feel worthy of love and had a fear that he could be a bad influence on Tonks and probably also their son. I think the fact he even thought about that is proof that he did love Tonks. He just had to make peace with his low self esteem.
No matter where fans fall on Remus' love-life, I think we can all agree whether it was with Sirius or Tonks once Remus went Black, he never went back.
wdym???
@@jigyasaagarwal9462 its kind of a joke of saying that remus was getting a black one way or another lol (because tonks was a black, same as sirius) and the comment could be also a slight reference of the song "back to black from amy whinehouse, idk)
@@patopatric aah I get it now ty
Stupid 🤣🤣🤣
LMAO
Quite the show of professionalism playing devil's advocate. Mad props, Morgan.
_"I'm a werewolf, Harry."_
_"Are you fucking serious?!"_
_"...yeah, that too."_
Classic.
Not funny, yet funny
😏😏😏
"Not sure how you got there from my reveal, but yeah, you're right about that, too."
classic truly
I do believe that Remus loved Tonks. However, he had years of self loathing to deal with. He is terrified that Teddy will be like him and is upset that Tonks’ family is disappointed in her marriage (essentially putting her at odds with her family). He doesn’t like that he has made her an outcast. If he didn’t love them he wouldn’t care.
id agree with that but how readily he was willing to leave tonks while she ewas pregnant makes me doubt this. the self loathing thing you mentioned would have according to me turned into guilt but he wouldnt have left her with her parents if he really loved her
@@jigyasaagarwal9462 I can see where you’re coming from but interestingly Remus’ thinking is kind of similar to Harry’s. It’s a sort of hero complex. Harry would try to do dangerous things on his own without his friends. Not because he didn’t care about his friends but BECAUSE he cared about them. Remus is similar. He thinks his family is better off without him/will have a better life without him BECAUSE he loves them. Elsa from Frozen has the same mindset as well. She still loves her sister but thinks she’s better off without her. It’s Harry calling Remus a COWARD that changes his thinking. Seeing his actions as the opposite of heroic probably would have caused Remus to realize that he was doing was only hurting his family.
@@alyssakays367idk you do you but i wouldnt call remus having a hero complex like harry. he was, forgive me, if not coward then definitrly traits of that. this isnt just about leaving tonks but also how he never stopped james and sirius bullying snape when it was his literal job to
@@jigyasaagarwal9462 I believe, it was a fear of a lonely man. He didn't want to make his friends upset with him by stopping them from bullying
@@jigyasaagarwal9462 how was it his job to stop them lmao. He was a kid too and kids can be mean just like snape was to them. But also, it wasnt bullying, but more a rivalry. Snape himself hexed people with his friends and they used dark magic. Plus he went around calling people of his own best friend's kind racist slurs like mudblood. That is more bullying than anything else,
Remus is a tragic character who has lived a life full of prejudice and discrimination. It is very understandable that he would not want his own wife and son to face similar discrimination.. all his friends are dead or turned traitor and so the poor soul doesnt have many confidants left either. His headspace can only be understood if you want to see and understand his situation.
So I’m a Wolfstar shipper and I’m currently reading all the young dudes (one of the most famous marauders fanfic, also Wolfstar slow burn). I just want to point out the difference between the American version of PoA and the British version. The American one was the obviously the one you showed in the video, but the British one has more affection to the hug. I don’t remember how it’s phrased, I just remember that it got changed when scholastic got their hands it.
I'm fascinated to learn the actual difference now. That's really intriguing
@@VioletEmerald I remember this being tackled (with some humour), in the video Are They Gay? - Remus Lupin and Sirius Black (Wolfstar) by Alexander Avila (check from 7:31 .... but really, the whole video is a gem).
I understand not necessarily believing in wolf star but saying Sirius was in love with James because they were best friends is a bit insulting. Just because some is attracted to the same sex doesn’t mean they instantly fall in love with their same sex friend. It’s the same with opposite sex friendships, always annoys me when people think Harry and Hermione should have ended up together. Sometimes a platonic friendship is just that and that makes it even more special. Other than that, great video, I always enjoy your takes on the fandom xx
How exactly is it insulting? It happens all the time. No need to be offended. Sheesh
James x sirius is way better than wolfstar
@@bunez69xWHAT😭😭
Via this logic romione shouldn’t have been canon either because ron and hermione were friends before they were dating. what are people only allowed to like non canon ships of they are enemies to lovers???
@@bunez69xI don't like the whole shipping thing, but you make a great point.
You should do a video about how you think the future of Katniss and Peeta would be like. Kind of similar to the one you made about what could happen if Katniss shot Snow instead of Coin.
Yes please do this
Yes pls
The Sirius ignoring girls was mentioned like once when he was in exams. I just assumed he was playing it cool as if he’s carelessly handsome, it means he probably had a lot of options
I respect whatever Morgan said. And frankly I never thought I'd see a video about Wolfstar on this channel lol. Most of the Marauders fandom IS based on fanfiction. We might not have evidence that Wolfstar is not cannon, and it might not even be cannon. But I love these ships after reading the fanfictions. And I feel like most of the people in the fandom know it's not cannon, we are just living our life in headcannons, fanfictions and denial lol. I loved the video!
shipping only canon couples is so boring
@@anna-tr1eo period
And it “might” not even be canon? There’s no “might” there, it’s just not 💀
First of all, I had never heard of Wolfstar prior to this video. Your theory leaves out some crucial details, specifically how the LGBT community was treated in the 90s, how the wizarding community would feel additional conflict (bloodline purity + how Dumbledores relationship with Grindelwald ended), and the necessity of having to hide a relationship amidst all of the turmoil they went through individually.
One could posit that Remus is bisexual, Sirius is gay, and Dumbledore was aware + a mentor to both of them as a gay man himself. They kept the relationship secret knowing the strife they'd get, and when Remus loses both his lover and his mentor, his fall off of the deep end at the beginning of book 7 makes more sense.
Additionally, we're seeing the world through Harry's lenses, and he has never been exposed to that from what we saw.
And all that is is just 'it could be'.......not canon whether or not through someone's lenses or not..... It's not canon
@@sabdulrahmanshaikh1621because the author is a lying to herself about being an ally ....
@@costiascoven You might just hate the author
@@Luigi-hn1hu who doesn't? You say that like it's a bad thing
welcome to the marauders fandom (sry I'm late). I hope you enjoy/enjoyed your stay
It’s definitely not cannon, but I think most would agree they would have made a great couple. They were at the very least great co-parents filling the dad role Harry needed. 🐺⭐️
I don’t think “most” would agree, just the marauders fans because 99.9% of that fandom is based on fanfiction
in harry potter we were often told that death is not as bad as a dementor's kiss "a fate much worse than death" or something like that is often implied when it comes to dementors. it is also made clear that although Peter was a part of the group, the others had a completely different potential. Peter was accepted but never had the value to Remus that the others had. there are good examples of this. Of course, the question might still arise as to whether Remus would have really wanted to kill Sirius if it had turned out that he was the one who betrayed the potters. that's hard to read from the books because the story was never supposed to have a that ending. it wasn't Sirius to begin with. Personally I don't believe in the theory and even though it's a bit controversial what j.k published after the end of Harry Potter and also called canon (cursed child) I still have to admit if the author herself says that it's not the case, then sorry folks, it's not. As much as I'd like to, Harry Potter isn't real, it's a story with people there to fulfill the story. Also The fact that Sirius "didn't pay attention" to women also served to keep James' main focus from my point of view. he was placed as the center of attention; his nickname alone shows that, so he needed friends who would let him be portrayed as such. a pretty womanizer could be weakened by this image and j.k certainly just wanted to keep it more about James. I know she doesn't have a good reputation on the subject, but she had no problem proclaiming that Dumbledore was gay. and as a reader you could definitely read that.
That’s a long ass paragraph and English is not my first language as you can tell. I just want to say one last thing. I have read the books multiple times. I have never ever had the vibe that Remus and Sirius were ever more then best friends.
I agree with everything you have said, except you saying that English isn’t you’re first language, your English is not just good, it is simply just English, it is brilliant, almost faultless. Well done!😊
@@davidledger2269 thank you so much David! 🥰
I totally agree. I do think they have the right chemistry. If they’re ever interested in the same sex, they’d be cute together, but without being delusional you can see that that’s not the case. Plus, many wolfstar shippers claimed Remus and Tonks’ relationship came out of the blue, but J.K. did that on purpose to show that the Wizarding World doesn’t just evolves around Harry.
Amen! (and I never would have guessed English wasn’t your first language 😊)
I always looked at their groups close friendship as one of family. They considered each other all as brothers (James, Lupin, Sirius, even worm tail to a bit), they were closer to each other then their own families and could depend on each other through good and bad times. Something that has always reflected with me as I have always done the same with my closest friends, they will always be my family.
I think it's fanfic, but a good one. They would be a good couple, I just don't think they are a couple.
Also, I think Lupin is a particularly tragic character already, him being pushed into a relationship without love would be too much 😢
“Should’ve known you’ve fallen for my old friend to, he gets all the women” “WHAT WOMEN HE DIDNT GET ANY” 😂💀💀
A few points I would like to add: 1. Even if Lupin didn’t truly deeply and perfectly loved Tonks right from the start - it doesn’t automatically make him gay. Many marriages aren’t perfect and it takes time to develop healthy loving relationship. 2. About Sirius “ignoring” girls. In high school I saw this phenomenon often (both for girls as well). There are many reasons people might behave this way. What is important to understand is that Sirius went to Azkaban and never head a proper chance to create a family… only to come back from prison to the new unfolding war and die before it even starts.
Also gay isn't the only option..... there's loads of options they both could identify with 🌈
I agree with your points on how Lupin reacted to Dumbledore's death versus Sirius's, however I want to add that Dumbledore's death caused a lot more issues than Sirius's. Lupin losing control was likely out of sadness, but also fear. They were in the middle of a war. People were being taken from the streets daily and the Wizarding World was dark, gloomy, filled with destruction. Now the most powerful wizard was dead - the only wizard Riddle feared. Of course Lupin would lose control. The pain of Dumbledore dying would be different to Sirius. Sirius was Lupin's childhood friend, and somebody who he was very close to. Maybe he didn't totally lose control, but you can tell he was in so much pain. Sirius's death, however, wouldn't lead to the decimation of the Wizarding (and muggle) World, but Dumbledore's did. That's why Lupin reacted the way he did.
Well, could we, please, let friends be friends? And I mean, both same sex pairs (like Lupin and Sirius) and different sex ones (like Harry and Hermione). Really, the fact, that people can be "just" friends is beautiful - arguably not less than love itself
Sirius and Hermione caring for Harry and Lupin because they are their friends and like family to them:
The Fandom: omg they’re totally so in love🤩❤️
THIS!!!
A boy and a girl can be friends but many people just can't understand.
Exactly! Please let friends be friends
YEAHHHHH the "why cant they just be friends" is harmful sometimes but seriously, it's like two men cant show amy affection for one another without being shipped
I think that this is a great video and as a hardcore wolfstar shipper I understand the conclusion you came to. I would say that I think one of the great things about Wolfstar is the story would simply be better if it was canon. All the evidence for it that you listed in favour of it, and even the things you said debunked it, all lead to deeper, more interesting characterisations. It adds depth and complexity to their stories, particularly Remus' that is sorely lacking. There is so much queer subtext in both of their characters, it just makes sense to me.
I think that an important point to note, is that while I think JKR never intended for Wolfstar to be a thing, Section 28 was still a thing in the UK when the books were being written. This restricted the 'promotion' of LGBT issues to children by local authorities. So she would not have gotten any queer themes passed editors until it was revoked in 2003 in case it would be banned in schools etc. In my mind, I believe she planned to make Remus gay based on the HIV parallels and backed out once she saw how popular Wolfstar got immediately following PoA. Besides, bisexual people exist. Remus could have been in love with Sirius, lost him, and then fallen in love with Tonks.
I know a lot of comments are saying let friends just be friends, but that's an argument you see against any LGBT ship, there are many platonic deep friendships in Harry Potter, Wolfstar wouldn't take away from that. Also I think it's important to remember that the entire series is told from Harry's point of view, his perspective is limited and so it is perfectly believable that he did not pick up on what was happening in other characters lives outside of his story.
When it comes to the point of the prank etc. I do agree that is one of the biggest issues. But honestly, I think that's bad writing. Because I struggle to see how or why Sirius would put Remus in danger like that even as his best friend. I think that was a case of JKR not really thinking the implication through of how it would affect Remus.
So while I do agree that based on canon text, it was never intended. But it absolutely makes the story better for it to be true. It's the main reason that I never want a mauraders show. Because that dynamic would be one of the most interesting to follow. If you haven't read it, I highly recommend reading All The Young Dudes. It's the only fanfic I would actively recommend to non-fanfic readers. It is mostly faithful to canon while exploring each character, particularly Remus' in far more detail. I'd love to know your thoughts about it if you did read it.
You gay HP fans are cringe
I think the “he got all the women” was about all of the girls liking him not necessarily him dating all the girls, and Harry also thought tonks was in love with Sirius. so while it’s not the most believable, I think it works
good video!!! that was a really nice surprise. as a wolfstar shipper, i enjoyed watching it and hearing someone else's opinion. i have some different thoughts on some points, but in general i'm quite surprised that i agree with you! while i do not think that in canon they were definitely a couple, every little "clue" to the wolfstar theory just proves that they have some chemistry. some fanfiction can be amazingly good, such as the one and only "all the young dudes" (which i cannot recommend enough). the author of that fanfic explores some stuff that debunked their relationship, e.g. the infamous prank and the whole "thinking that the other one is a spy" thing.
so, nice vid, and i hope other people enjoyed it just as much as i did. helped me look on their relationship from another angle!
However, ATYD is a pretty dark and sad fanfiction, so I would not recommend it as a first step in the fandom.
The marauders loved each other like brothers. And you would be shocked when your brother dies.
I’m bi myself and ships drive me crazy. Why can’t two people just be friends, why does everything have to be a ship.
Personally, I think Sirius is just apart of that free love generation ( it was the 70s ) and would screw everyone he sees and be a bit of a player at hogwarts, seeing how he is a rebel, he probably wasn’t involved romantically with women, but definitely got physical with a few girls at Hogwarts, but more like one night stands. And I think that’s what Remus meant by “ always getting the woman,” and what was meant by “ not interested,”
( I could see him experimenting with guys, but I think, due to their personality differences, he would not go for Remus.)
Remus on the other hand I believe he really did love Tonks, but had other issues he was dealing with before he can get romantically involved. Taking care of Harry, controlling Sirius, werewolf problems, and war.
I think he was devastated after Sirius died and took those missions during book 6, as a way of morning, but I think it’s just because he lost his last childhood friend.
There are also cases where people with deformities, or addicts, have this self-hatred. They don’t spend time with their love ones just like what we saw with Remus and Tonks, it’s not because they’re not in love with the person it’s, because they have doubts about themselves.
Which is one reason why I like Remus and Tonks He bubbly happy and caring personality really helped Remus get over moaning and self-hatred.
I think he was more willing to kill Peter, because he was angry and probably not thinking rationally, during the stressful situation in shrieking shack,
not to mention,
I would also argue that peters crimes are a lot more worse than what Sirius was accused
The cast were asked what parts from the books they were sad didn't make it into the movies were, David Thewlis (Remus) and Natalia Tena (Tonks) said, "Our Story". I don't think they would have said that if they didn't believe it was strong. I don't believe Remus loved anyone in that way except Tonks, he was just terrified to hurt her or give her a werewolf baby.
I agree with all of your individual points, and I think you did an excellent job of going through everything in the books and debunking movie clips. However, I still feel that it’s possible Remus and Sirius were together at one point, and perhaps not for a long time. In my opinion, the biggest points against Wolfstar would be when Sirius says he wishes it was the full moon (because he’s bored) in Snape’s Worst Memory and when Sirius risks Remus’ innocence by telling Snape how to get past the Whomping Willow.
"What woman? He didn't get any!"
My new favorite Movieflame qoute.
25:08
Personally I was more inclined towards wolfstar since I just liked Tonks being a single badass, Teddy can be adopted or through some magic macguffin - as long as teddy still exists - he's just too cute to ignore
My random ass headcannon is that tonks and Remus decided to get married and have a kid just in case they never got the chance and died in the war
You are deluded
I mean, idk if the wizarding world is aware but ivf and such was a thing in the 90's so they could've had Teddy in other ways too 🧸
@@Arlostardustthats actually not so headcannon, i dont remember the exact wording but i do rmr molly mentioning while talking about that bill was hurrying marring fleur that people hurry through processes like marriages and family in the phase of war seeing that their lives might be ending soon, wanting to live a more fulfilling time when they see they might not have as much left, she also mentioned thats what happened with her and arthurs marriage
And I feel like the reason Lupin was not ok with Sirius getting the Dementors Kiss and only a few months later ok with killing Peter is because it is said many times throughout the books that it is a fate worse than death. Lupin never said Sirius didnt deserve to be in prison for what they thought he did. He also was emotional that night he threatened to kill Peter. I think if he had thought on it a few minutes he would have changed his mind. I think he felt particularly betrayed by Peter because he brought him into the group and had stuck up for him all those years ago.
I’m a Wolfstar shipper and have unashamedly written stuff myself 🤣🤭 but I see both sides! I like either them being together or them just being great friends! I think it can be whatever you want it to be 💁🏻♀️ love the video! You’ve done a great with this 😄❤️
I’d love to see you do this with Deamus!
Don’t ship deamus but I second this.
I honestly think that it would be a bad idea to make a movie or a series about the Marauderbecause of all the ships the fan base created. If you make it but don't put Sirius or Remus together, Regulus and James and whatever other ships that are popular among the fan base, the fans are going to be incredibly upset and some might even want to boycott the serie/ movie. Plus let's be real, it's only in the fanfiction that the characters are nice because the marauders were actually a big bully group with two narcissistic and egotistical James and Sirius as members, not sure it would be that interesting to see them being jerk....
I agree. A marauders series would be a mess, because so many people already have their own headcanons. Feels like almost no one would be satisfied.
James and Sirius had to have had plenty of redeeming qualities. They were amongst the most popular students in the school, not only amongst students, but also staff. James turned his attitude around, revealing more of his noble side in later years, attracted a great woman, was described as a good person, etc. In addition, the Marauders were primarily mean to Snape, who was not a nice guy.
It would be EXTREMELY messy, because in the marauders universe
James is with Regulas
Sirius is with Remus
Lily is with whatever her name was
And idk who madelynn mcannon is I don't think she was even mentioned being a marauder. Maybe I need to reread the series again.
I didn't recall the moment as teens that Sirius was a jerk in canon. Severus Snape and James Potter I see as jerks in canon in many ways. I haven't even heard of James/Regalus until this conversation btw. Sirius/Lupin is popular but in my world that's alongside James/Lily as a popular ship... and then Peter Pettigrew is the odd one out
@@mhs__2003 LOL wtf. No sane person thinks that. Stop catering to insane people online.
15:43 It's actually interesting how the "Lupin embraced Black like a brother" is only like that in the American translation. In other translations it describes the hug way more vividly, and like in the movie.
What does it say? I have a UK version and it still says “like a brother”
What do other translations say?
I don't know about other translations, but Spanish and French both say they hugged like brothers
In the first edition of both English and Croatian version of the book, it just says like a brother. Nothing more and nothing less.
It’s definitely not “only like that in the American translation” lol
I’ve personally always had a thing in my head that as much as Harry Potter cannon is the books is the ‘actual’ story it wasn’t the full story. For example the war. As much as we see the darkness if it were a reality it would be much more horrific. Wolfstar could have also existed for all we know.
I always got the impression that Sirius was Ace since he never really showed a romantic inclination towards anyone. I also have seen some relationships where depression has made someone appear to not love their partner or made them make really odd decisions. All in all I think this theory is more of a bust.
Not showing a romantic inclination would be aro, not ace. There's a difference.
i would disagree.
Another amazing video, Morgan! Can’t wait for the next one!
@@FishysONTOP I haven’t. I say that whenever a new video comes out so that MovieFlame notices me before a tsunami of comments come along. He is literally my favorite TH-camr so I really want him to notice me. 😅
i’ve never shipped them like that. never understood why people grasped at straws to say they liked each other tbh
Because it's 2023 and you are a weirdo If you dont lgbtq the living shit out of literally everything.
Same. I just saw a more brotherly connection since Sirius was ostracized by his own family, and I'm sure Lupin even commented on how Sirius and James seemed like family to him because they didn't care that he was a werewolf, even going as far as becoming animagi to remove the risk of being turned by him if he bit them while transformed.
That's not romance. That's friendship.
Hollywood has killed the notion of BROTHERLY love
I think it started because the actors of Remus and Sirius thought they were a couple. David Thewlis was even surprised when in order or the Phoenix he went with tonks because he had it in his head that Remus was gay
@@mark_thurwanger agreed!
Book: They are good friends.
Shippers: Y r u gae?
I don't really think we need proof for anything here. Everyone can make whatever they want out of the story JKR has written. Actually, there are a lot of explanations in wolfstar fanfics (e.g. ATYD) that are able to clear up the things speaking against the ship in this video. So in my opinion both sides are valid and there shouldn't be a discussion. Wolfstar can definitely exist within the canon story.
this ! trying to read into the text as canon or not is just a waste of time when it comes to any fandom
Agree! Shipping is its own thing - drives me crazy why people need to dig into the source material to build a case for something having canon support.
There are some great stories out there for all ships - either read & enjoy or scroll on by if it’s not your thing.
It’s called “transformative work”for a reason!
Isn’t ATYD far from being canon compliant tho? The story made Remus a feral working class kid (meanwhile the only working class kid in books is Snape) who was hated by his own parents among other things.
@@ackerose yeah there are definitely aspects in ATYD that aren't canon.
i was just saying that the fic offers explanations to the "proofs" against wolfstar taken from the canon story in this video (as i don't think we should be having this discussion in the first place)
Why am I so excited? You're my favourite hp youtuber, and these are my favourite characters
My favorite too!
Something to consider for Sirius and James always being paired together is to consider the time period. This was the 70s so if Sirius and Remus were dating they may have avoided being together, just the two of them, around other people in case people started catching on
I’ve always thought that Sirius was in love with James, because of the way he spoke of him😀
If the theory was true (Which I don't think it is, never did.)
Sirius would be gay and Remus would be Bi because of the inclusion of I forget her name.
As a wolfstar shipper, I don’t think it would happen in canon but I think it’s a better pair then Remus and Tonks. It’s also rlly cute❤
*Why Wolfstar sucks and makes no sense:*
Firstly, I like the Marauders being bffs with a brotherhood. So I think any romance between them, be it Starbucks or Woflstar would just ruin that dynamic and this is usually what happens in the Wolfstar fanfics and headcanons I come across. Also, in NO WAY is this post meant to be an attack on anything LGBTQ.
Secondly, I think Wolfstar is mostly based on headcanons and even fanon rather than canon. There’s nothing indicating compatibility in canon. Or even if we can use certain canon info to support their compatibility, there’s definitely more canon info supporting James and Sirius’s compatibility. In other words, there isn’t anything indicating them as more compatible than J and S. Yes, James was straight and married Lily, but Remus was also straight and married Tonks. And Rowling has said that not only was Sirius not gay, but that he was too busy being a rebel to settle down in a relationship (let alone getting married). So if we dismiss Starbucks on James’s canon sexuality, we’d have to do the same with Wolfstar on their canon sexualities.
And no, I don’t ship Starbucks. But the reason I bring up Starbucks is because I never understood why Wolfstar is shipped more than Starbucks when canon clearly shows Starbucks with a deeper connection. Even J and S scene shows them in synch with each other. The same can’t be said for Wolfstar who also have problematic elements like Sirius’s werewolf prank, Sirius saying he wished it was fullmoon in SWM, and them mistrusting each other with the whole ‘I think he's a death eater spy because his family is dark/because he's a werewolf.’
Another big problem with Wolfstar is how their ship often takes away James’s importance in Sirius and Remus’s lives as their bff and downplays his relationship with the both. Most of the time when I come across Wolfstar fanfics or headcanons, it always involves them being closer than J and S. It always downplays the close relationship that both Remus and especially Sirius had with James. It always show Sirius being closer to Remus and being annoyed and belittling of James. It even often shows Sirius getting jealous and threatening James if he hugged Remus or complimented Remus. That’s clearly not canon because canon makes it clear James was the one who both Remus and Sirius were the most closest with in their group and that James preferred these two (especially Sirius) the most.
I’ve so far never come across any Wolfstar fic that didn’t at least at some points annoy or frustrate me with downplaying James’s relationship with both Sirius and Remus and taking away James’s important role in both their lives. I dislike anything that takes away his importance or downplays his relationship with any character, be it Sirius, Remus, Harry, Lily, Dumbledore, McGonagall, or Hagrid.
*Conclusion:* There’s nothing that makes Wolfstar any more canon that any fanon ship for most fans to agree it’s canon. Saying they’re essentially canon doesn’t make them canon. There’s no evidence for any romantic entanglement between them. So they aren’t canon. There isn’t any evidence they’d make a good couple either. Plus, Rowling has confirmed that neither Remus nor Sirius are gay when a fan asked. So they definitely weren’t canon. But of course they’re just as valid of a ship as any fanon ship like Harmony, etc.
17:14
“This heart is where you truly live! This heart, here!”
Thank you for bringing up this line! Let’s discuss it briefly, because Sirius says something very very similar to Harry in OOTP (book and movie) about heart, and again in DH2 (book and movie) as a resurrected form. Thus, unless sirius was also in love with harry, then clearly it’s just something Sirius says to people he cares about and not to people he wants to be in homosexual relationships with.
Two men can be friends that hug, Two men can be overall polite and nice to each other , Two men can be alone without kissing .... is just a very nice and close friendship . This is my two cents friends! cheking the evidence, there is no enough to support the *WolfStar hyphotesis* 🥰
That's your opinion. Mine is that wolfstar isn't canon, but a fan theory that I like and support. That's my 2 sense. Anyone else wanna share a.different opinion?
@@frankiejohnson9987I feel like wolfstar is cute, but its not canon. Its a great fan-theory 👍🐺⭐️
Precisely, Sirius and Remus are completely platonic
obviously there's not enough evidence to support it lmao. the marauders are literally based entirely on fanon. it's a fandom for a reason. anything that has to do with them is going to be, most likely, fanmade, unless pulled directly from the series. that's unlikely tho, because we have very little info on them in the books.
As part of lgbt I never saw a relationship between them except friends
A lot of people are agreeing and are saying the same thing.
Honestly I don't think it's really there but fun to piss off JK. The AIDS and Lupus connection in her mind is really flocked up. Honestly this is probably just another post facto Imagination, but you never know.
I honestly read Lupins staying away from Tonx as self destructive behavior people do when having a disease.
I never had children due to my own genetic disease and honestly I was always extremely paranoid about it.
I really do want to play the video game on my PS5, but can't bring myself to buy it. Plan on buying a used copy.
Understanding she was victim of a sexual assault and the reason why she's hateful towards Trans people lumping them in with her attacker.
People are people, my dad's a racist I never understood anyone who make generalizations. Some people are good some are not. There is enough hate in the world 🌎.... I wish she would tone down the hate.
I honestly would have thought that they would have gotten rid of the houses at Hogwarts in the sequel.... Guess it's not a value to her.
Same
relate
@@Crazyd_JK Rowling's not transphobic... If you read her original, ACTUAL tweets and not the ones made up it's not transphobic. She just says women are people who have the potential ability to menstruate and trans women are biological men. Which is true
I believe the Wolfstar theory is just fanfiction that came about because there are instances as you pointed out that were relateable to the experience of some gay individuals.However I will say as far as Lupin being "more" upset about Dumbledores death than Sirius. The situations where completely different. Lupin really couldn't lose control when Sirius died. They were in the Ministry surrounded by death eaters and there were children who needed to be protected. When he found out about Dumbledore it was "safe" . He could have lose control or broken down even worse when he was able to over Sirius. Also it was really disappointing the "storyline" Rowling put in about Tonks falling for Sirius. I always thought that was weird. Yhey weren't even like distantly related. There were close blood relatives.
As much as I like both Remus and Sirius, I really like Remus and Tonks together. Wolfstar is just something that should stay in fanfiction for me. Besides, Teddy is so cute!
I never rlly thought tonks and Remus had anything in common and they were an odd couple. Sirius and remus as a couple just makes more sense to me as they’ve been through so much together
I like the idea of Sirius having an unrequited love for James. They were inseparable best friends, almost brothers and I think it’s possible James knew, and accepted it.
This theory, and many other fan ships and theories while fun...really show that people cannot control themselves when thinking that people are just friends. They always have to think sex is involved. Whether Sirius was gay or not is irrelevant to his character and same for Lupin.
But to assume two people who are as close as brothers, who have known each other for 7+ years in school and 4 years as adults, who were fighting a literal war together are "totes having sex" and "gay for each other" is well poor reading comprehension and reaching.
Look i wouldnt dislike or hate the idea of Wolfstar. In fact i would openly support it, but it just is a crazy fan theory that again adds nothing to their characters and does not have enough evidence to support it. Yes Rowling actively trying to deny it in her writing was poor. But what else could she do? She had Lupin end up with Tonks, Sirius died alone albeit he had posters of bikini clad women, showed he was more into women than men if he was into men at all.
Agree with everything you said. People really go too far sometimes. Characters can care for and take care of each other and just be friends. Why do people always have to add sexual elements to something when it's not there or needed for it to be a strong relationship. It's like people don't think you can have a strong friendship and show any concern for someone without it being sexual. It's a fun theory but that's exactly what it is.
I had a friend years ago, who, young creative girl, would write various fanfic storyies herself where the main characters were explicitly two guys, always with a gay relationship. Like Harry and Draco, who both have only hetero relations throughout the series. But that was fun to her for some reason, making up those stories. I'd assume for most it is just that -- fun.
But them there are those, who get somehow fixed in the idea of forcing (their own hopes or desires of the characters they possibly feel close to, or had romantic feelings towards) the alternative narrative on the characters.
And in a way, that won't hurt anyone as characters in a book aren't real people and cannot be harmed.
To further your point, Lord of the Rings has always been one of the books, where the author presents deep affection, friendship, companionship and respect mostly between male characters. Many just can't for some reason wrap their heads around the fact men can have deep feelings and affections without it being gay, thus making them gay.
(Tangent incoming. This is not entirely targeted at you, please don't take anything I say offensively this is more of a general overview of this godforsaken fandom)
Okay, so, first of all why is it people immediately related gay relationships with sex? I always see this argument for some reason. Either people are incredibly perverted or they are on the wrong side of the Internet and it shows with how they treat fandoms where queer people can have the chance to express and project themselves onto characters, because gay people are apparently sex goblins and can't have relationships if they do not fuck every day. Not only is this ship an incredibly harmless headcanon that usually adds more than what Rowling has given to their past, I'm not sure how it adds nothing, most straight relationships are forced into stories for character development. Look at, literally every franchise, ever. Wonder why it's different know, couldn't possibly guess. Especially if it was a previous relationship in their school days, as we have quite literally nothing to go off of in what happened back then (Other than these guys are like pranksters or something and they didn't like Snape cause he's bigoted repeated over and over in a slightly altered font)
What or even who else do people want gay people to relate to? Two chairs? Dumbledore? Because his queerness was not shown even in hints or subtle messaging, I will tell you right out of the gate, as someone who's been out for years and is very in tune with subtext, none exists in his regard.
Genuine question here. Who else do we have that wouldn't be labled as 'bad because they're just friends' 'bad because they don't know eachother' 'bad because they hate eachother' what do we have that isn't instantly labled as 'weird' or makes us 'obsessed' when straight people do the exact same thing and then it's cute and makes so much sense. Because somehow Hermione and Snape is more fucking excusable.
To me in fandoms it seems like shipping straight characters and having useless, forced straight romance shoved into the plot is okay, but when it's something fun that harms literally nobody suddenly its an issue because 'oh no, THE HOMOSEXUALS, THEY'LL HIT ME WITH THE GAY BEAM'. As someone who's interacted with the shipping side, I can genuinely tell you it's never been about 'oh they're just friends? DICKS IN ASSES LET'S FUCKING GOOOO' It's literally just been 'oh, they look cute together and have chemistry, how fun.'
I'd also just like to point out how backwards the 'just friends' argument is.
Ron and Hermione started off as just friends for most of the books, wasn't it up until the last one? Given that's how romances tend to start. Especially in fiction like Harry Potter where most of the characters have grown up together or known eachother for years at least.
Harry and Ginny is canon and I wonder what they started off as, oh yeah, friends.
Harry and Hermione is an incredibly popular ship, so popular in fact they even shoved it into Ron's paranoia, and in an affair in Cursed Child.
Luna and Neville, oh guess what they were? Friends. They didn't get together, yet the fandom insists they should've.
Even Mr blond bigot himself, pigfarts admirer, scraggly weasle Draco Malfoy and Hermione is, in my opinion, one of the most popular ships, for some reason?...
This is all to say, there's a clear bias going on here, in every single fandom I've ever been in. It's a pattern that keeps and will never stop repeating.
Scincerely, someone who's been in this overdramatic fandom for as long as I could go onto the Internet, and has actually interacted with a lot of people and ships in a lot of fandoms.
Where did it say anything about sex?????????
@@Fun-K-BoardYup, a lot of the het ships are insane in this fandom. So many age gaps which would grant jailtime for the over age one and most likely be categorised under (actual) grooming by this who love to claim we are the ones doing it, there's way to many ships that has the whole incest thing going on and yeah forced het ships like you say and somehow the queer community is the ones critize the most when it comes to shipping...the math is not matching!
14:22
This discussion reminds me a lot of the conversation Gandalf and Frodo have about Gollum.
'Pity Bilbo didn't kill him when he had a chance'
'Pity? It was pity that stopped Bilbo's hand. Many who live deserve death, and many who die deserve life. Can you give it to them?'
I would say it is the life experience, his wisdom and years of dealing with the situation clearly makes a difference between Lupin and a young, emotional and inexperienced Harry.
And when you mentioned the way Lupin reacts towards Peter, just 20 minutes before he had found out he was betrayed by him and that he was responsible for Potter's death and framing of Sirius. I don't think it was because he and Sirius had a love relationship. He would''ve reacted the same if Sirius and Lilly were married, and James ended up in Azkaban because of him. His blood was boiling and he wasn't rational. He wanted revenge. Luckily, Harry saved him from it.
Amazing video and all your video ideas are fantastic! Your indsight is also incredibly intresting.
The dementor kiss line about deserving it tells me that Remus is compassionate towards humanity.
as a wolfstar/moonfoot shipper:
I know that its not canon. I ship it solely because it brings me comfort, and there's nothing wrong with that. You can like fanfiction and stuff, even if its not near canon, as long as its not you shipping adults and children or so on then I believe its perfectly fine.
I love Lupin and Tonks's relationship and stuff, but that doesn't mean I don't enjoy wolfstar. Its a really interesting trope to go down ( I personally care more for the angst than I ever will anything else ) and it isn't harming anyone.
- to add on, why can't the Harry Potter fandom js be civil??? It doesn't always need to be a one route thing and people will always go their seperate ways and thats fine. You can find comfort in a harmless silly pairing thats made up, it doesn't matter what you ship as long as you aint going out of your way to try and make others ship said thing or shipping something illegal, gross, or morally wrong ( Like James x Snape. Please get a life, its digusting...? The bully x bullied trope is really toxic in general though. )
I think people forget that the golden trio also thought that Tonks was in love with Sirius until they found out that she loved Remus
I've been WAITING for this one! Turn it up !!
Most the people pushing this theory probably don’t go outside and know how real people speak. So they don’t knew that they have a completely normal dynamic.
People that migrated from Tumblr infested other social media sites, and now this video has surfaced as a result of it.
I like the Wolfstar ship and like reading fan fiction about them but at the same time I don’t think the ship is canon.
I'm very intrigued with this wolfstar theory also
your editing is really good!
you are not first
@@kaylabear Oh but when I saw the post there was no other comments
As a wolfstar shipper I do belive that they r inlove either eachother but I do belive u have made some really good points and respect your opinion. I really enjoy your videos bc they explain a lot to me thank u!
Excited to watch Morgan! Thanks for ur amazing work!
Maybe Sirius was with James so much was because they where just inseparable friends but and Sirius loved Remus but he was to shy and he didn’t want to be alone with him because both of them didn’t want it to be awkward and ruin their friendship
I never once believed Remus n Sirius was gay.
It's 2023. Everything, everyone and their dog have to be gay so you better get used to it 😂
Why can't men just be friends with other men without being gay?
Blame the perverts in fandoms
As for them just picking up their friendship, that's actually possible, I have a friend I've had since I was 12, am now 45, we sometimes go for years without seeing/speaking to each other, but when we get together, it's like we've never been apart
In my little world, Remus just loved Sirius before Azkaban and Tonks during the events of the books ❤
Tonks was the rebound 😂
as a huuuge marauders fan i see wolfstar as like the pillar that holds everything up, if you know what i mean, i have unfortunately acknowledged that this is probably always going to be just fanon, but it’s cool to see how many actual canon references there are supporting the idea of them being gay! it’s nice to hear every opinion on the topic, both canon and fanon, and it’s important to know every side before choosing one of course, but what i have to say is that rowling really did a tough job there denying most of the evidence she had given us in prior, most of which only makes it seem out of place and almost forced
This is irrelevant to the video but I just found out that all the Harry Potter films are coming to Netflix in the UK tomorrow. It’s crazy that Harry Potter is a British film yet it took so long to put it on Netflix in the UK. 😅
If Rowling says if they’re not gay, then they’re not.
But they aren’t…
She never came out and said they weren’t gay though 👀 she just tried to add things to the story that were pretty crappy writing. Watch the video and you’ll see what I’m talking about
@@MovieFlame I did, and I agree with your points. All I'm saying is, as a writer myself, if she intended for the characters to be gay, it would probably be more obvious. I'm sure this whole ship was started with fans grasping at straws.
I'm sure I've heard/read somewhere that David Thewlis interpreted Remus as gay initially and put some of that into his performance in POA
It might not be canon but a lot of wolfstar works with canon and it’s fun to imagine that it could have been possible at the very least. I personally adore the ship, they just make sense to me as a couple. Authors don’t always know their characters best and I really do think that wolfstar was so obvious it should have been canon even if it isn’t.
And at the end of the day these are all just made up people and stories and fanfics are another addition to the made up stories and wolfstar is the version I personally like best, because imagining the marauders without wolfstar just feels wrong to me, but I also understand why people wouldn’t have saw them that way
I did NOT expect you to bring the PRANK into this.
In my opinion, all J.K. had to say was, "No, they are not lovers" and that would be that. It's her story after all. She has given it to all of us, but not to change it.
Also, J.K. Rowling said that they aren't gay so ofc they are not. So you are correct, but people did start w this theory bc she unintetionaly made them rlly gay. The producer and the cast all thought they were a couple, so that explains the hug and Severus' comment. But ofc that all crashed when they realised that Remus later married Tonks.
thinking about the 40 line stare
and also! sirius and james viewed each other as brothers. sirius felt safest around james because he made it quick to show that he would help him and that he cared :)
Omg I've been waiting for a video like this ❤
Crying- this notification made me laugh so hard, I’m a wolfstar shipper and I’ve always just said that they could possibly be canon and just went along with Wolfstar fanfiction (ex: All The Young Dudes). Being a Marauders fan makes atyd the closest thing we get to canon. Just with Wolfstar- anyway love the video man, never thought this video would be on this channel. Have a good day
YES in my eyes atyd is already canon by now so even the question if they're in a relationship or not doesn't make sense to me anymore
@@discofish literally same lmao
"All sorts of things happened."
AYO 😳
I have no problem with people shipping them. What annoys me is their shippers acting crazy, hating and making stuffs up about Nymphadora to justify their irrational dislike for her.
I mean the director told them too play as old lovers. And that's what the actor Remus was going for.
none of this is any proof of this. all of the "evidence" can also be explained with being good friends. come on
I have been waiting for you to post this!!!
I don’t think people understand that wolfstar is a part of the marauders fandom, and nothing in this fandom is actually canon.
fr we thrive on delusion
"What women? He didn't get any" 😂 Im dying
now with the dementors kiss thing i think that Lupin genuinely believes that having your soul sucked out of you is worse than death amd doesnt wish it on anyone, better to kill them
Hope everything is all good with you movie flame i watched your video vlog a few weeks ago about your issues and im one of those fans who cares about how people are god bless ❤🙏
Morgan, do this Percy Jackson video-
What Every Character’s Bogarts Are
Ex:
Percy- Alecto
Grover- Polyphemus / Tyson
Annabeth- Arachne
Thalia- The Sun Chariot
Luke- May Castellan / Kronos
Tyson- Sphinx
Nico- Humiliation for being gay
Bianca - Kronos
Zoë- Atlas
Clarisse- Ares
Chris Rodriguez- King Minos
Jason- losing his memory
Piper- losing Jason to Reina
Leo- Hera (Tia Callida)
Frank- Thanatos
Hazel- Gaea
Reina- losing Jason to Piper / Nico in danger
Ares- Hephaestus / Kronos
Them: talks
Everyone: OMG THEY LOVE EACH OTHER
When people don’t understand that you can marry/date more than once-
I DON'T CARE IF IT ISN'T CANON IS CANON TO ME LIKE THEY ARE SO GOOD TOGETHER
Wether it makes sense or not, the fact J.K Rowling hates it is enough to ship Wolfstar
I have the simplest explanation;
In the books, Wolfstar isn't real
But in the movies, it is
Me personally I think that when Sirius died Lupin was trying to hide his feelings as by not showing as much emotion as he felt, although since Lupin and Dumbledore were never lovers he let out a regular emotion
I loved this video, you should definitely do more digging into fan fic theories
Lupin being willing to kill Pettigrew, but not thinking Sirius deserves the dementor's kiss is only a contradiction if you think killing is worse than the dementor's kiss. Lupin could simply think the dementor's kiss is worse, which is a view expressed in the books, and that it would be better to just kill Sirius.