RANKING THE COLORS IN cEDH - THE PLAY TO WIN PODCAST
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 ก.ย. 2024
- Dylan and Cam rank the colors of Magic based on what they bring to your cEDH Deck.
SUPPORT THE SHOW:
PATREON - / playtowin
DRAGONSHIELD AFFILIATE LINKS -
The US LINK - www.dragonshie...
The EU LINK - www.dragonshie...
TOKENS/PLAYMATS/SLEEVES/COINS - www.playtowinm...
SHIRT DESIGNS - www.bonfire.co...
TCG PLAYER AFFILIATE LINK - shop.tcgplayer...
ALTERSLEEVES - www.altersleev...
LINK TREE - linktr.ee/play...
![เขามัทรี - เอ็กซ์ ศุภกฤต - จอนนี่มิวสิค [ Official MV ]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/AS9ufKuQIVs/mqdefault.jpg)
I’m wondering if they’ll remember smothering tithe for mana in white. Haha
Came here to make sure I wasn't the only one.😂
@@TOBYHAWK777 same.
Nope they forgot (just like mana tithe for Interaction)
@@stormtrooperjeepjk well there you go! Still, I love these guys. They’re basically my favorite EDH content!
Neither of those cards are cEDH . Soo they did it accurately
A couple HUGE misses-
White-enlightened tutor,swift reconfiguration/ vizier of remedies.
Blue-windfall, timetwister, having essential combo pieces to hermit Druid lines, Otawara.
Black- chain of smog and Onyx, grim hierling, dauthi, deathrite shaman.
Red-tibalts trickery, final fortune for spellseeker lines, extra combats (combo in winota)
Green-carpet of flowers, tinder wall(specifically in Najeela), devoted Druid,seedborn muse.
Also would love to see Tyler on these, as I think he brings a huge advantage to things you guys may not think of all the time! Great video!
I agree that Windfall and Timetwister a crucial draw cards for blue, and Final Fortune and Swift Reconfiguration should have impacted the ratings, though I'm not sure if Deathrite Shaman is enough to push black to a 5 for mana, especially since you already need to be in green for dorks.
Seedborn, Devoted Druid and Tinder Wall are very strong cards, but green already has a 5 for mana. I think that although they touched on Finale of Devastation as a tutor for green, it is also worthy of mention as a win condition alongside Protean Hulk.
(Enlightened Tutor, Chain of Smog, Dauthi, Otawara and Carpet were all covered in the video)
Shouldnt really take into account combo pieces like Vizier or Reconfiguration, since the cards don't do anything outside the combo (unless its a one card combo like Breach or Naus). Missing Etutor is wrong tho.
Reprieve also doesn't need to counter the spell, so things like Cavern of souls, abrupt decay, and hullbreaker horror can all be stopped by it, unlike remand
That was what I was going to mention as well. The fact it is missing "counter" makes it way better than remand.
For White wincons, it plays a key role in a lot of Kiki and Hulk lines with Karmic Guide, Felidar Guardian and Arena Rector.
yeah i think they missed the mark on this one, all three of these cards are win cons (or at least part of the win) and a ton of decks win with these lines, including rocco and kodama
Heliod Balista
Black as the best color seems right. Tutors and Ad Nauseam are just the most powerful things in the format. But also, how did you not mention Food Chain as a green wincondition? It wins games!
I love you guys. So happy you don't take yourselves too seriously.
It's probably not enough for a whole episode but it would be interesting if you dug into these ratings as pairs go and see if they cover each others flaws and how that lines up with your assumptions in the format
Smothering Tithe is a white card that generates mana in the form of treasures and it is playable in some cEDH decks.
Also counts as stax and synergizes well with white due to this.
What decks play it?
Monologue tax as well
@@bladeflesh Marneus, opus thief
Waking up and having my morning coffee while watching/listening to your podcast is definitely a great way to enjoy a day off from work 😎
Enjoy your day off!!
White mana advantage -
Smothering Tithe and Deep Gnome Teromancer.
Plus, if you're making the bounce spells + Dockside argument, the same applies to flicker spells.
Smothering tithe doesn't see a ton of play and deep gnome sees none
@@B1gBingus It does actually, in some mono-white decks mainly, like in Lawful Evil (A cEDH Database Heilod Deck)
The important part here is that white does have more viable ramp than blue does. Blue has high tide (Also only played in mono-colored) and bounce spells, whereas white has at least two played ramp spells, one of which sees far more play than the other two combined, and has flicker spells.
@@jaydonthewarrior636
But that’s one very-very niche deck
While you want to bounce Dockside in every second multicoloured one
@@Uefeti No, it's not, quite a few mono-white decks run it, for a further example of decks on the database:
Fiddle Me This and Heliod 2.
Also, I agree, bounce spells are better than Deepgnome, however as I pointed out before, white has flicker spells, which are by far a closer comparison.
If you want to be fair, flicker spells compare much more closely to bounce spells, and Deepgnome compares much more closely to Hightide.
@@jaydonthewarrior636 it’s a pretty niche deck that sees little to no wins/play in tournaments.
when I'm building my decks i always ask myself "is this as synergistic as Dylan and Cameron during this podcast?"
I think the white Silence effects are kinda win conditions when you are NOT mono white. It can interact with your opponent but it also stops their win
I can get over them forgetting smothering tithe. But FOOD CHAIN WINS GAMES. And they didn’t even bring that up for green. Give it a 5!
Smothering Tithe is barely played. 4 mana is steep. It's more of a high power card.
If enchantments were better I’d imagine Serra’s Sanctum would see more play, giving white more mana advantage.
And Mother/Giver of Runes is definitely Interaction in White
Legitimately my favorite Magic/EDH content! I love the gameplay of course, but these and the set reviews (with Tyler!) are the best Magic content out there!
Thanks guys!! Y’all have impeccable timing. Right when I made my eggs.
"Scheming Cemetery" is my favor quote! Love the podcasts so much!
I’d love to play games with your play group. You guys sound like you are so chill and just want to have good times.
I enjoyed this episode. Keep them coming.
No Mana Drain for blue mana? Dang.
Love these talks gents!
I think it is worth discussing why it seems surprising that blue scored lower than black or that green doesn’t seem so good when it actually is.
Blue’s interaction could almost get a 6 simply to skew how important it is. Not only is it the best at interacting, it also has the most important kind of interaction, and so much of the other colors’ strengths often rely on blue backing them up, or crumble in the face of opposing blue decks. Counterspells are just that good, on top of the fact that so many of them are straight up free. One doesn’t often omit blue from their black red breach deck, as the cost to including blue in those decks is often so low and the reward is huge. In fact, it’s almost not a choice of “I want to play blue” but rather “I have to play blue [for this deck to work well]” when constructing a deck.
Green seems much worse than it is because it is kind of insular, or at least it doesn’t fit into the grixis thoracle/breach plan that so heavily dictates the format. Most of its tools play to its strengths extremely well, which makes decks like Selvala and even Yisan (aka boomer selvala) function so well despite lacking all the powerful interaction and stax that other colors have. It opens the door to probably more ways to win than the other colors have, but it doesn’t mesh well with the other colors. Because it lacks interaction and doesn’t mesh well with the grixis+ piles it is often a bit linear and hopes either it brute forces through the other players or is the last one standing when the dust settles because their single collector ouphe did the work of 3-5 1-for-1 interaction cards. In short, the color is really good but you don’t often look towards it when you’re brewing other colors, you usually start with green and go from there. Obviously there are 4 color piles with green but it’s usually either not a major feature of the deck or it’s the main player with the rest supporting it, and rarely in the middle… if that makes sense.
Idk, maybe I’m a bit wrong and green offers more in the pile decks than I’m giving it credit for but most decks with green I see are using it for its power as a linear color more than its wide array of utility.
I don't play cedh, my competitive days are long gone.
But I really enjoy listening to you guys talk and play.
Cam: we just employed some science
Cam earlier: 21....that's 9 + 10
Shout out to vine
White has another great tutor in “recruiter of the guard.” It gets a ton of win cons, and great pieces. Thad da, dock side, grand abolisher, walking ballista.
I'd love to see/hear a podcast about Mystic Remora. For years I've pondered whether or not to play it on turn 1 or 2. I've found pros and cons of both. Most people assume you should always jam it on 1. But I argue there are many arguments for 2. Included with this topic are cantrips----when do you include them in the 99; how deep do you go; when to deploy them.
You can grab walking ballista with ranger captain , seems pretty relevant to me
Cam's shirt is pure fire. Literally and metaphorically.
Reprieve is better than remand, as reprieve gets around things like dovins veto being uncounterablen
Just found the channel and I love the content. Has to be one of the best magic podcasts.
The shirts in this episode: 🔥
Thanks for uploading guys. Love the channel.
I gotta ask why is blood moon worse than Magus of the Moon? I feel as though creature removal is much more prevalent than enchantment removal .would love to know more on your thoughts about this
I assume because you can’t tutor for it as easily and doesn’t fit in winota
White is definitely my favourite 1v1 colour. I LOVE White Weenie , Death and Taxes, Humans. Thalia, Guardian of Thraben is my favourite card ever.
Would really love if y’all would talk about some of the playtest cards! Transcantation is one of my favorite magic cards and it’s not even legal haha
Boys both of ur energy combined is amazing. love seeing ur videos big up from here
If for some reason you are not in green and want a craterhoof effect there is no moonshaker cavalry. Not to mention felidar guardian, karmic guide and a whole bunch of other cards that easily create win cons.
Didn't see much talk about whitney's artifact and enchantment removal. Very easy to come by.
Upside to Reprieve is that it bounces and not counters so it can overcome Cavern of Souls and Boseiju.
Also you can Thoracle in decks with BrainFreeze.
Red has the best Ramp in the game. I have a mono-red deck that is built around Stax/Land Destruction.
If your opponents have no lands, you’ve ramped so much better than your opponents. I run Boil and Flashfires and every spell/enchantment/ability that blows up lands.
It sounds like a deck designed to exploit casual tables. Artifacts are reliable, consistent sources of ramp along with creatures in red and green. Red has great artifact removal, but that deck sounds vulnerable to mana dorks and rituals.
Without watching the video or actually play cEDH myself, I bet it is U, B, R, W, G. U has the card draw and counter magic, black has the tutors, red has the fast mana, white has the stax, and green is left behind but has mana production as well
Sensei Divining Top in colorless card draw makes it atleast a one, right?
No mention of Path to Exile and Smothering Tithe is surprising!
Definitely should have mentioned path to exile. I thought we did. I stand by not mentioning smothering tithe
i would have done it in 4 categories: 1) mana ramp/color fixing 2) card draw/card selection 3) win conditions/utility 4) disruption/interaction
mana ramp/color fixing
5. colorless - mana rocks, fast mana
4. red - dockside, rituals
3. green - mana dorks,food chain
2. black - rituals
1. white - smothering tithe, land tax (catchups)
0. blue - high tide
card draw/card selection
5. black - mass card draw,tutors
4. blue - study,mystic,wheels
3. red - wheels
2. green - sylvan,greater good, creature tutors
1. white - once per turn extra draws, rector
0. colorless
disruption/interaction
5. white - stops storm, etb, yard, creature, artifact
4. blue - counters, land hosers, stops draws
3. colorless - land hosers, stops storm, etb
2. black - stops yard, creature, search
1. red - land hosers, stops creature
0. green - stops artifact
combo win conditions
5. blue (oracle)
4. red (dockside,breach,kiki)
3. green (protean hulk)
2. black (consult/pact,chain of smog)
1. colorless (ballista, fish bowl)
0. white (heliod)
rankings
blue: 5+4+4+0 = 13
red: 4+1+3+4 = 12
black: 2+2+5+2 = 11
colorless: 1+3+0+5 = 9
green: 3+0+2+3 = 8
white: 0+5+1+1 = 7
13:00 Reprieve is actually better than Remand, for one very important reason - it doesn't actually counter the spell. Hullbreaker Horror inherently can't be countered and some decks are playing it as a vaguely castable top end, and some decks are playing Cavern of Souls, this can matter.
I play a colorless deck there is tons of draw and tutors
I've got several lands that I can pay to draw a card, I have kozilek and none of those are a problem because you going to horizon Stone like 1600 mana on turn 5 with the right hand
With tutors you've got everything from Moon silver key to planar portal, urza saga, temporal apecature, you can cheat multiple things into play with Quicksilver amulet and manifold key
It's probably a 5 on everything but wincon and interaction because you're limited to casting all is dust equipping worldslayer on a blightsteel slamming down all your eldrazi we're going infinite with myr tokens which is very combat oriented and susceptible to vandalblast
Maybe having a section for black regarding "card selection" rather than card draw would have been better to give blue the space it kinda deserves with it having so much draw in its color.
Urza, kinnan, dramatic scepter, and other effects that untap mana rock are all blue mana effects.
Orims chant revel in silence and path to exile are one you didnt mention off the top of my head.
Great vid!! Unrelated: chill to win game of Dandan?? Maybe?? Would be cool.
this definitely isnt cEDH and does need this specific commander but my Mono Red Torbran Stax deck is somewhat evil.
adding 2 extra damage to every iteration of Pyrohemia, Manabarbs, Spellshock, Roiling Vortex, Sulfuric Vortex, Pyrostatic Pillar, Circle of Flame and Zo-Zu the Punisher make wins happen very quickly. as long as i can get 1 or 2 of these and some ramp like a jeweled lotus or some rituals early on then you can actually lock out the board pretty hard and pretty fast.
"When colorless gets card draw it breaks the game". Well, i guess the ring has been found.
Guys, we're getting purple mana. Just saw it on Facebook.
I found someone's April Fool's joke. I'm a Timmy lol
My favorite thing about these episodes is when y’all go off topic about shit like the archon stuff early in the episode haha.
Can't believe there was no mention of Blue's removal suite! Chain of Vapor, Rapid Hybridization, Pongify, Resculpt, Cyc Rift, Gilded Drake, and March are all very good (or at least playable) removal options.
Also, Blue deserves more credit for stax:. Arcane Laboratory, Stasis, Ashiok, Narset, and Mana Maze are all playable, and it has a lot of weird situationally-playable ones like Mana Breach, Chill, Overburden, and Energy Flux.
No way you guys read all this, given how many comments you get, and how long-winded I was, but I love your content!
A few cards that (maybe) should have been mentioned:
Phyrexian Arena (Black Card Draw)
Heroic Intervention (Green Interaction)
Food Chain + Eternal Scourge/Squee/Misthollow Griffin (Green Wincon ?)
Smothering Tithe (White Mana)
Teferi's Protection (White Interaction)
Vexing Shusher (Gruul Interaction)
Destiny Spinner (Green... makes some things uncounterable)
Deathrite Shaman (Golgari Multifuntion)
Urborg + Cabal Coffers (Black Mana)
White is primary in my favorite keyword all time: "Can't".
I agree with most of what yall said, but it definitely felt like there were times where yall would drag a color for being awful at something and then give it like a 3 or 4 so there was a bit of a disconnect.
I made a home brew Gruul Staxy based list. Besides magus of the moon and blood moon I also play harsh mentor, price of glory, roiling vortex and stranglehold in the red colours. Perhaps not your go to’s in stax but I find they work in my deck :)
Smothering Tithe for mana in white is amazing
I think your analysis is good only one things i will put 5 in win con in green for food chain line too.
1:50 “White, Blue | Black | Red, Guhgreen”
Late to the party but I found you forgot to talk about:
Malcom for blue mana production
Thrasios for blue mana / advantage
Hermit Druid for green wincon (?)
Counter spells are definitely better in 1v1 than multiplayer. In multiplayer you stop 1 opponent from winning or deploying a rhystic study but you simultaneously help your two other opponents by protecting them and using your interaction.
Reprieve is not exactly remand. It works on uncounterable spells too.
yeah its actually such a important thing for that card its probably what makes it playable
White wincons also include Reveillark, Karmic Guide, Felidar Gaurdian, Village Bellringer, Preston, Academy Rector, Arena Rector, Auriok Salvagers
Another green win con: how did you not mention food chain!?
Colorless card draw: skullclamp (not super common in cedh but I've seen it a few times). Still probably a 0.
CAMERON YOUR SHIRT!!!!!!
I love it!!!
I saw the short of you guys counting the values you gave white and I thought it was going to be a special outtake… but nope! That’s just a big ol’include post-production 😂😂😂 good pod this week gents. Also, who needs a calculator for all that? 🎉🎉🎉
Smothering tithe for mana in white
just here to mention dosan for protection in green, defense grid in colourless.
50:20 Very funny in hindsight of the one ring - colourless card draw that broke the game
it must be such a riot, or dare i say hoot, when the band's all there!
I think the only mono-white mana effect worth any thought is Smothering Tithe, but that's still a pretty hefty mana cost for cEDH.
Yisan/Selvala/Marwyn LOVE Hall of Gemstones. It's stax AND protection
Yisan does not want hall of gemstones.
@@Zen-708 I like Hall of Gemstones in Yisan because everyone lands only tap for green on your turn, he can play ouphe too so that their artifacts can't supplement other colors for interaction, and it doesn't change the amount of mana produced, so nykthos or Cradle still make as much green as they normally would. Why do you choose not to play Gemstones in Yisan?
@@jakeb.2708 it feels like I am taking a turn off of using yisan or playing yisan to cast this and in the turn between casting this and deploying an ouphe my opponents have a good chance to simply win by choosing red on their turn playin dockside and going off as the only player with non red mana. As well as my build of yisan plays less stax pieces in order to fit in more tutors for gaeas cradle as it is meant to win the game. It is tuned for my local meta with many dockside combo deck and another card that feeds dockside and protects peoples win attempts seems VERY bad in my opinion.
"I knew you were a sun Titan guy but I didn't know you were a white...f...f...favorite." 😅😂
Hot take!!!! 🔥 😂
you forgot some decent green card draws. hunter's insight is 2 mana, karametra's favor enchants creature draws a card and makes mana 2 cmc.
Also enlightened tutor can be used for ramp becsuse mana crypt.
All the love for white in cedh makes me so happy
Hey dudes love the pod casts, they're just the right length. The episodes have had like the slightest decline in structure and coherence recently. I would like to suggest adding a bit more detail to the notes and having shared notes, could help you guys keep in a rhythm and keep it flowing more consistently.
Damn just thought of something. Scheming symmetry with oppo agent on board give you a vampiric tutor and a praetors grasp 😅
Weird my comment from yesterday went poof 😳
I'll just reiterate it was nice to wake up yesterday to watch/listen to this having my morning coffee on my day off 😎
I’m not sure why the all got deleted, I think everything got reset
Haha I like how you guys screw up sometimes but it is still entertaining (e.g., Cam's face when realizing Tutors should be a thing XD)
Elite Shirts by the squad today
White has that enchantment from brothers war that can be used to repeatedly bounce dockside too, yeah?
White can add kikijiki as a wincon thanks to fellidar & karmic guide. Thats how Rocco cooks
Does Smothering Tithe not see a lot of play in cEDH anymore? That's some good mana generation in white.
Love this videos!
What about contamination for stax piece for black… love that card
Will you guys be doing a spoiler review of March of the Machines with cedh reviews?
For green card draw, what about Greater good or that sorcery that does the same?
Also, for Colorless Card draw, no Kozilek, both versions?
I wonder how long the reading of the $50 patrons actually takes in real life. No shot they can hold it together after each name lolol. Always my favorite part of the videos!
I will say on the note of warping wail, you technically don't need pain lands; Sol ring and the other "generic" mana producers were errata'd to produce colorless pips so you can actually cast Wail/Contortion off a sol ring or a mana crypt
Yuuuuup. Warping Wail is sooooo good
i think the math is good if you just weight the categories differently. card draw mana and interaction are maybe 1.5x, win con is 1x and stax is .75x or something like that. dont worry im imagining the math in my head so you dont have to.
#1 Blue
#2 Black and Red
#3 White and Green
Urza in blue is mana also notably moonsnare prototype
@playtowin Where’d you get your shirt Cam??? I NEED IT!!!
You basically build a kenny deck for me
And yet green is probably the least represented color in cedh.
Though Rocco and Jetmir are working on that.
I feel like the main green decks are Rocco, Jetmir, thrasios pairs, and yisan right?
Remember Path to Exile!
It goes in EVERY white deck I build
What about Malcolm for blue mana? I mean, I know it's played purely for the combo but still
I would say Wheel of Fortune still counts as card draw, if you have go from 0-> 7 cards and your opponents go from 7 to 7 , you are still winning that exchange , I feel like that was a little lost in the convo.
Still
archon
noun
ar·chon ˈär-ˌkän -kən
1
: a chief magistrate in ancient Athens
2
: a presiding officer