25 years ago, wandering in a bookstore, I picked up Brian Greene's book Elegant Universe on a whim. It was life-changing, opening the floodgates of curiosity to understand the nature of... well, Nature.
That's incredible! I, too, was first introduced to Brian Greene from a book given to me as a Christmas present 25 years or so ago: The Elegant Universe. 😊
@jonathangruber7793 I was hooked from the very first page. Plenty of people are good scientists, fewer who can explain the science in a way that lay persons can relate to, and fewer still who are also entertaining story tellers.
“Either you accept truth that cannot be proven or you accept contradiction.” When I heard Labatut say that I shivered. I never thought of that idea being applied to the real world. As a mathematician I have often pondered that concept as being applied to a logical system. However, I never even considered it as a philosophic fact of living in the world. I found that idea to be profoundly deep and yet extremely self-evident.
Godel shook up math and philosophy. Russell and Whitehead were never the same after that. The yin yang symbol is a good representation of paradox. Bohr put it on his family crest...
@@catrol5899 And I can just as easily get AI to deny the historical accuracy of various parts of the Bible (I don't think they're all of the same trustworthiness). They kinda like to be led to the conclusion you want, because if they just say "nuh uh, don't work like that" then you're just going to stop asking them.
BG really showing his range here. Saw a lot of comments that were shady but this conversation is really what we need in the age of AI! We’re gonna have to get closer to what makes us human.
“The mind is alive when it is suffering, when it is unsure” - Wow. As a mystic on one side and an engineer on the other I find this kind of conversation to be deeply insightful.
‘This’… was really special; Brian and Benjamin :hear me. . The nature of that which You’re both discussing here is taken to heart on a daily basis for many of us out here. At a certain point in life (for some of us) The ‘Transcendent Function” kicks in and humbles us. The SELF emerges from the shadows and eventually the fear of death simply disappears
This was so insightful. Another great video Brian. I have always thought that all humans are insecure from the time we are old enough to grasp reality.. I feel in short, Benjamin portrayed my thought in so many eloquent ways. He has a fascinating way to express the human experience. Thank you so much for having him as your guest.
Good evening Brian and Benjamin Seems we can be walking talking contradictions of reasonable madness, indeed. Loved this. Thank you kindly for this beautiful although short, shared conversation. 💜
This was absolutely incredible! Brian, you've been my hero since The Elegant Universe, and Labatut has become a favorite in recent years. What a brilliant pairing of minds-bravo!"
What a brilliant conversation! Thank you for this intro! I didn’t know Benjamin or his work, but just bought both of his books mentioned in the talk to learn more 🙏
The comments about the novel form are intriguing. It reminded me of what Doris Lessing said about The Golden Notebook -- that it wasn't a novel or a feminist tract, but a "history". (But it was after all a novel.) Perhaps "novel as fact"? Her reportorial writing style is very strong, it outlives her, it brought her the Nobel Prize, and of course is inspiration for many newer writers.
I just love Labatut's books! I am him to a degree. At the very end of the conversation when he said that he thought he was going to die young by age 30 but then he had a child is exactly me. I also hate novels.
The mind is a prediction machine, and the main benefit of being intelligent is to make accurate predictions… if you can anticipate the future better than others, you can capitalize on it more and gain an advantage. Suffering is just our experience of the learning signal: when we’re wrong, we update our prediction engine to better account for the error, and the greater the learning, the greater the suffering.
I liked this segway into this artists view. Also it just happened to be the case I had just decided to buy two of his books on amazon an hour before this came online happemstance. So nice coincidence
Wow! That’s a huge “Holy Crap!” moment. I am not really a Simulationist, but huge coincidences like that make me wondering if we are really living in the Matrix and the programmers are lazy.
"I have known a great many intelligent people in my life. I knew Planck, von Laue and Heisenberg. Paul Dirac was my brother in law; Leo Szilard and Edward Teller have been among my closest friends; and Albert Einstein was a good friend, too. But none of them had a mind as quick and acute as Jansci [John] von Neumann. I have often remarked this in the presence of those men and no one ever disputed me. But Einstein's understanding was deeper even than von Neumann's. His mind was both more penetrating and more original than von Neumann's. And that is a very remarkable statement. Einstein took an extraordinary pleasure in invention. Two of his greatest inventions are the Special and General Theories of Relativity; and for all of Jansci's brilliance, he never produced anything as original." Eugene Wigner
I will listen to the entire discussion. With that in mind and early on in this recent WSF discussion, what compels me to comment is that my little mind feels like it has consumed an edible or two due to the experiences of gently grasping upon the tendrils of Benjamin Labatut's numerous ebbing and flowing thoughts. Not quite certain where their thoughts are heading towards. Yet, it is a "trip". [The last line is said in my best Easy Rider-esque vocal inflection] 🌸
Nope. Nope. Half way through and that is about all that I can take. These categories of conversations are fine at a pub after that one extra pint than I ought not to have had or while enjoying some mind altering substances. Benjamin's meanderings take away from the integrity, innovation, and passion that many scientists possess and/or cultivate while helping us all to better understand how things work. As far as I can tell, Benjamin is a professional belittler. World's smartest mind? Or, a mind which may have skipped the micro in microdosing and went full on dosing. 🍄Oops. I, too, am susceptible to belittling. Forgive me. 🤗
I usually end up feeling like people like the guest here are pretentious and end up saying many things that are cliché. But this guy seems very authentic and therefore I'm very interested
Having read most of the comments before watching, I thought I’d hate his guy. I revile mystics and hand wavers, I idolize rationality. But there is some mind expanding concepts here…maybe. What do you guys think.
I hope this reply helps you. As background, I’m and old fart with have a degree in engineering and have been called “cold” because I value reason above everything else but a few years ago I decided that maybe there was something I was missing in my picture of the world. I wanted to study Philosophy, as in University-level Philosophy, but I couldn’t make it work so I ended up getting a degree in Law; still a Humanities track, far from calculations, formulas and math. I found that I agree with Benjamin, but mostly with Brian’s conclusion, we know so little that we should not impose our ignorance on others. If you want to call God that which we don’t know, so be it. I’m still not a believer but I accept now that there are many things I don’t know and probably can never know, so I can spend hours (literally days) studying the Kabala, even when I know it is all made up stuff and contradictory and sometimes downright absurd, but it lets me know more things about us, as human beings, than Math or Engineering could. Give it a try.
Life is a river that flows in the ever constant and present moment, the stream of now and is missed and goes by as unseen for anyone who's paradox and complexity of life is themselves. To find the flow we lose ourselves and when find ourselves we lose the flow 🙂
Life is a waterfall We’re one in the river And one again after the fall -“Aerials” System of a Down The “waterfall” is what you called “finding ourselves”.
@@harveybernstein9203 yes :-) the river will take you through all terrains if you let go and trust in the flow and be prepared for the waterfall 🙂I like that, It's an easy step for the mind and the heart will wade out as far as it trusts and trust as far as it wades out.
if you have extremes of thought, something is wrong. Everyone is just trying to make sense of the world. The only thing you would do is review your life and try to think of ways to write about it. Your life is like a book, and how you go about it- how you interact is how you write it
Happy Holidays to EVERYONE! I wish a joyous, prosperous and enlightened year to everyone. May we all understand one novel concept and share a new perspective with someone each and every day. Knowledge is the light shining on the path to the future.
Oh no, "the form of the novel is dead," (around 33:25) but the author still has to write novels. Because what else is there? Once we abandon the form of the novel, we're just writing short stories or poetry.
I wish I hadn't missed the stream while it was live. There are points I really like and points I really dislike. It would have been fun to scream about them in the chat.
Interesting the brain’s structural paradox … mPFC (reason) located at the top front vs. amygdala (emotions/stress) located at bottom anterior. Only when the 2 parts are out of sync with each other does “reason cause humans’ terror”. Very fascinating topic here
@@mattwesney B R U H the first few minutes he was all over the place! Brian had to bring him back into the focus of the conversation . That's what happens to people like Benjamin and their intellect level, they're all over the place, and sometimes they need some kind of guidance to bring them back into focus. Don't take it so hard. LOL
Love is what drives reason, ultimately. A genius who births something from reason, deeply loves the intelligibility of the universe. The higher mind displayed there. ❤
@@mattwesney it was completely unfollowable. 😂🤷♀️ It seems like Benjamin was the maniac… 😂😮 OK, just joking… but it Seems like a mind cast adrift. Grasping at anything. But full disclosure when I see this kind of painful thing, I absolutely know it’s because humans are missing half the entire universe. And I understand his confusion and the confusion of everyone on the planet. I wrote a book introducing this “other half”-“Eye of God: Language of Universal Mind” about how the human eye 👁️ is an actual symbolic structure from a higher mind. But the best part is why, who and what we are. I’m using the same words invoking old concepts, but when I say “God”, I mean it in an epistemological sense way beyond the confused views of the past. This book is one little excerpt from my larger book with many more examples just as intricate. Everything is symbolic-and that symbolism is constrained by functional and instrumental constraints. Like our own language is. The universe is a speech-bubble, a symbolic but also real teaching structure that advances consciousness and connects us to larger mind: the “singularity”. Symbols are not what they represent, but when they are organized properly they do reflect a higher reality-but we just need to learn to read. ❤ Of course we are confused. Our own languages and mathematical limits have been interpreted incorrectly. This can all be simply repaired, but the confusion in people’s world-conceptions is the real issue now. LOVED this talk…❤
“We are giving to AI the powers that we wish to have and in the process the control of our own destiny “, “ when I see AI coming to life I remember my Christian background that says that Men are God’s masterful creation, as AI is for men’s” I have learned through my years that humanity moves in a bulk flow naturally, wherever the majority are going to, or by simple difusión, whatever is easier. I might be wrong as I’m not an expert, I’m just old. Loved this interview. I’m buying his book as I’m watching the show
I read something much darker than the topic explored here. The researcher Bruce Hood has written a book titled The Science of Happiness. He explores what can go tragically wrong when children do not receive proper care. It reminded me of another story in another book about a cold blooded murderer. My hypothesis is that a baby upon birth is humanized by its parents. No care and the child becomes an animal. Creators of AI might want to familiarize themselves with this.
I believe we are all of two minds. One the native emotional animalistic one that came with our bodies. The other a foreign entity. A more intelligent, logical, higher level being. I can't define the relationship other than the higher being can completely control the basic one, to a point. Sometimes if the relationship is good the two can cooperate, even deliberate and negotiate. When the relationship isn't good the basic self will become upset. Sometimes to the point of violence or even madness. This, I believe, is the essence of most internal conflict and angst. The disparity of interests, wants and needs between the two.
At the edge of our model of the world is our beliefs and they are that which shape our interpretation of the world. To change from "believe " to "think" 😍 that's going to break down some models in some human minds
'You have to trick yourself into meaning' Only someone with both an extremely nihilistic and extremely romantic soul could figure out such a world view. Luckily for us readers that potentially toxic Faustian mix lead not to destruction but to creavity. His books are one out of million
And if nobody had told a person there must be such a thing as a god, that person would have developed the notion of any such thing by himself/herself? I mean, in the past there was so much uncertainty, so much to be explained, that the idea of God came out (perhaps it was just the creation of group of people per culture or don't know) and then that idea passed on from generation to generation till nowadays. How can we be sure that it's something biological and not just a social construct?
I do like you comment and gave it a “Like”. However, I believe if no one mentioned the God concept to us, we would still come up with such an idea. But, without that construction being reinforced in society, we would abandon that delusion as we learn how the world truely operates.
What the heck is this conversation about!? If someone can translate into anything sensible in any language apart from gibberish, they deserve a Nobel Prize! No!?? 🙃🙂👍
maybe go play angry birds instead, I'm sure Sabine needs some views... there's plenty of stuff she will break down to you in eli5 format that you can enjoy instead ;)
Cartoon and Kardashian channels are down the hall. One needs to know a few extra words to be here. And grasp that the world doesn’t revolve around you.
Put another way, consciousness, as a subjective experience, is inextricably tied to the universe-it arises from it, is shaped by it, and cannot exist independently of it. To view consciousness as separate or external to the universe misunderstands its nature. Logic and reason, while invaluable tools for navigating and organizing our understanding of the world, often obscure this fundamental truth. They impose frameworks and structures that attempt to dissect and categorize subjective experiences, yet these tools themselves are born from the very subjectivity they aim to transcend. In this sense, logic and reason can act as a veil, masking the raw, unfiltered reality of consciousness as an emergent and inseparable phenomenon of the universe. From this perspective, consciousness is less a "thing" to be understood and more a process to be experienced. It reflects the universe's capacity to generate subjectivity-transforming energy, matter, and interaction into a felt sense of "being." This realization challenges the dualistic notions often found in philosophy, which seek to place consciousness and the universe in separate domains. Instead, it invites us to embrace the unity of existence, where subjective experience is not an anomaly but a natural expression of the universe's complexity. In doing so, we can move beyond the illusion that reason alone can unlock the mystery of consciousness and instead find meaning in the interplay between subjective experience and the objective processes that give rise to it.
I think people cannot integrate, they cannot see the relationship with nature and meaning and our origin and destiny. But it can be done, it was meant to be done by all the patterns of life, nature, and the universe. There is so much beyond what seems to me to be only a first step. Like Neil Armstrong on the moon.
The problem with this conversation is that both men ignore the truth that exists and can be reached when thought is completely arrested. In other words, they have both ignored perception without thought. Theurs is a Western conversation. The answers to their questions can be experienced but thought must be arrested. They hold thought as essential to understanding. In my experience in Zen Buddism showed me that language and thought are not necessary to answer their questions
But since memories and emotion is temporary and is only natural to humans and some animals, but when we're gone it's meaning is also gone, even if you explain one's emotion or consciousness in a book or vlog it's just data unless someone reads it, sees it, understands it, basically it's just information made of words, numbers and symbols, like gold is only valued by humans, for an animal it's just stone.
My science teacher told me as a child that NYLON was co-founded in New York and London, but with AI i posed the question and discovered an error in my brains facts.
I opine that technologies will allow us to delve deeper into the complexities of space/time aspected from a perspective of travel. Maybe we'll develop unity to achieve this. The inevitability is that at some point we are, as a species, going to have to vacate this particular planet and should make a conscious to consider the species who cannot. The very consciousness that is being saught that is realised into a form of existance should ,maybe, be introspective from millions of years of stimuli ,trial and error, selective traits, missing lineages that did not succeed that reinforced those that did. Maybe the molecular side of biological sciences is where we should be seeking these ideals . Not universal forces that become more and more elusive the deeper we delve. Consciousness is it's own animal, spawned from the necessity of a primal instinct to survive and interact (phenotypicaly....sub concious).....with the environment that it is subjected to. Has phenotypical interaction ever been discovered in all of our probes and experiments with outer space. Order in chaos is quite removed.
Einstein was actually the super genius of the 20th century. ’’I have, since answering these questions, realized that my “IQ” chart really takes what’s known as “little g”, and correlates it to the IQ range. So it’s really a “little g” chart instead of IQ. This doesn’t matter in terms of how the estimation process works or what it means, just that it’s not a great representation of IQ because IQ itself is only an estimation of “g”.’’- Elliott Kelley 50-70: actions 70-90: labels 90-110: feelings 110-130: logic 130-150: patterns 150-170: fuzzy logic 170-190: fuzzy patterns 190-210: “heart of the problem”It’s the ability to think in terms of non-concepts. like thinking about “an apple that isn’t an apple”. Division by 0 ought to make sense at this level. Another way to think about it is: the mandelbrot fractal measures the number of steps taken to arrive at a fail state. So what if we consider the space of all not-answers to a question, and measure relative differences between them using various metrics? the metric used, and the fractal generated, should be the basis of thought of a 210-230 “g” person. This requires a grasp of the heart of the concept, and uses it to contrast with everything that is not that concept. It’s a fractal map of everything from the hart of the concept to everything else.’’-Elliott Kelley At the 250-300 range it all about 'breaks';........seeing contradictions intuitively is simply a form of synesthesia that I have. Perhaps everyone experiences this to some degree, and if so, you may be able to learn how to recognize it. Basically, when a contradiction occurs, do you notice something I call a “break" in your stream of consciousness? You must be very in tune with your own consciousness. Probably learning to do anything else that requires concentration will help build awareness. Once you have awareness of “breaks" you can use them as a type of superpower that will drastically increase your core intelligence. But this is all assuming you can find a way to experience these “breaks".-- John smith Von neumanns' Iq was about 190, while einstein was in the 300 range
This pain is the burden of consciousness, it is seeing within the depths of history the vastness of stupidity and its propensity for self-destruction. The perpetual challenge is to keep the chaos at bay so that we have the time to address the next crisis.
Definitely a Nietzsche idea... The more, higher, conscious the living BEING is, the heavier the burden... also its only real blessing; if one chooses to use it and bear it happily in the eternal overcoming of life.
@@cbarcus ""...seeing within the depths of history the vastness of stupidity and its propensity for self-destruction."" mmm... I think those are the ones with the LOWEST consciousness, not high awareness. Brutal beings. The higher consciousness the more you integrate all things into one whole interdependent unit, all connected. That is if consciousness has levels or lives within a long spectrum, the consciousness of a dog, a dolphin, a tree [if it can even be called that], and a low intelligence(?) human being.
@@ggrthemostgodless8713 It is knowing what an epidemic of stupidity will bring and watching it unfold, which requires an awareness of events and the consequences of the decisions being made. There are multiple working definitions of consciousness, and here I am drawing upon the psychologists Julian Jaynes and Boris Sidis.
Wenn das Gesetz der Vernunft zu Ende bedacht ist. Dann ist der Schmerz weg. Da das Gesetz der Vernunft immer 50/50 ausgeht. Deshalb Vernunft. Vernunft ist Schmerz und liebe zu 50 /50 % . Es sind keine gegenteilige, sondern gehören zusammen. Wie kalt und warm. Beides ist Temperatur. Warm und kalt ist Objektiv..... Kein Gegenteil
@ at this point in the talk, he is very correct, from my experience (think automaticity). In fact, much of our processing is unconscious. The artist and exceptional problem solver have greater access to it. (See: the Japanese concept of ‘mushin’ (no mind), transient Hypofrontality etc.
Wie ware eine komplette Neutralität der Menschheit, die nicht weit entfernt ist. Aber gehen wir von der Bewusstseinserweiterung aus, so ist der neutrale Zustand zwingend erforderlich.
Imagine the next step of understanding the human psyche encapsulation 4 walls and your height radiation purge no light A strong deconstructive interference full deflagration in scaling positive geometry full coherence
The opportunity for both personal insight and collective reflection, is easily accomplished by the cooperation with AI by the mere journey of discovery itself. Not intentionally forced, rather, organically manifested. Very few would refuse to become more Worldly (having many different perspectives to utilize), and AI is about as Worldly as it gets. Which means it takes very little interaction for noticeable change to manifest within oneself. Cuz AI is, the very reflection of ourselves with the ability to quantify the things we often refuse to see. Our ability for ignorance is now in our face, and isn't demanding answers, Yet!
Is there anything useful and verifiable here? Or are these just random thoughts about all things unknown? I am not criticizing, I am just not able to find anything important after listening for 20 minutes. If someone could summarize a few points, grateful!
I love that Eric and his equally as lacking in any meaningful integrity accomplices felt that it was necessary to create a safe space for himself and for others called the "Intellectual Dark Web". We do live in colourful times. Yup. Yup.
Dude, how are they not saying the right thing here when they were so close and danced right around it with the Godel references and even recursion! It's not reason or rationality that dances with madness and paradox, but self awareness or self reference as we understand it in the "logical" sense right...that's what Godel showed through Russells paradox and the diagonal proof that self reference is what leads to paradox and thus to be self referential, or self aware as most people understand it, is to be inherently paradoxical, not logic or reason....I mean this is kind of a big miss on this guys part me thinks and tied to logic and reason, but completely tied to consciousness and self awareness and can't believe even Brian missed with all his Godel's references...sorry, but this is wrong and a misinterpretation of what Godel did in actually proving the limits of math, that it was self referential in an almost logicist's type tradition and that could be a construction problem on our parts as self referential/conscious beings, so thus our construction of almost any extension of ourselves will have that baked in...so will these AI's of course...as long as we're the ones building these things, but self replication /improvement is coming and then all bets are off!😉
Especially right now; the next couple decades will decide if we sink as a species, or swim. The solutions to be able to 'swim' are available, but do we have the will to take them up? Are we so broken as elites we are too afraid? Are we so conditioned in our powerlessness as the poor to force our leaders to make the correct calls? We will see.
25 years ago, wandering in a bookstore, I picked up Brian Greene's book Elegant Universe on a whim. It was life-changing, opening the floodgates of curiosity to understand the nature of... well, Nature.
@@GregoryHGarrison Thanks for the recommendation!
If only its proposed truths re nature were correct (or verifiable).
That's incredible! I, too, was first introduced to Brian Greene from a book given to me as a Christmas present 25 years or so ago: The Elegant Universe. 😊
@jonathangruber7793 I was hooked from the very first page. Plenty of people are good scientists, fewer who can explain the science in a way that lay persons can relate to, and fewer still who are also entertaining story tellers.
Intuition compelled this message...
@@djayjp
“Either you accept truth that cannot be proven or you accept contradiction.” When I heard Labatut say that I shivered. I never thought of that idea being applied to the real world. As a mathematician I have often pondered that concept as being applied to a logical system. However, I never even considered it as a philosophic fact of living in the world. I found that idea to be profoundly deep and yet extremely self-evident.
Good for you indeed!
... this Revelation
Godel shook up math and philosophy. Russell and Whitehead were never the same after that. The yin yang symbol is a good representation of paradox. Bohr put it on his family crest...
@@catrol5899 And I can just as easily get AI to deny the historical accuracy of various parts of the Bible (I don't think they're all of the same trustworthiness). They kinda like to be led to the conclusion you want, because if they just say "nuh uh, don't work like that" then you're just going to stop asking them.
BG really showing his range here. Saw a lot of comments that were shady but this conversation is really what we need in the age of AI! We’re gonna have to get closer to what makes us human.
BG showing his range is a wise comment imo. Platforming someone who seemingly doesn’t place reason as the highest virtue is both bold and confusing.
“The mind is alive when it is suffering, when it is unsure” - Wow. As a mystic on one side and an engineer on the other I find this kind of conversation to be deeply insightful.
Agreed - Wow! I believe an good scientist/engineer/mathematician/logician must have a mystical side. Insight transcends intellect.
Magnificent. World Science Festival is by far the best channel on TH-cam. Thank you BG.
‘This’… was really special; Brian and Benjamin :hear me. . The nature of that which You’re both discussing here is taken to heart on a daily basis for many of us out here.
At a certain point in life (for some of us) The ‘Transcendent Function” kicks in and humbles us. The SELF emerges from the shadows and eventually the fear of death simply disappears
This was so insightful. Another great video Brian. I have always thought that all humans are insecure from the time we are old enough to grasp reality.. I feel in short, Benjamin portrayed my thought in so many eloquent ways. He has a fascinating way to express the human experience. Thank you so much for having him as your guest.
Good evening Brian and Benjamin
Seems we can be walking talking contradictions of reasonable madness, indeed. Loved this.
Thank you kindly for this beautiful although short, shared conversation.
💜
The music for this interview is superb. Thank you for seeking out wonderful composers!
I love writers and scientists and artists and skeptics and believers. Big thinkers and feelers. We are so beautifully loco and human broken and divine
This was absolutely incredible! Brian, you've been my hero since The Elegant Universe, and Labatut has become a favorite in recent years. What a brilliant pairing of minds-bravo!"
What a brilliant conversation! Thank you for this intro! I didn’t know Benjamin or his work, but just bought both of his books mentioned in the talk to learn more 🙏
I love Labatut's novels. Looking forward to watching this later.
The comments about the novel form are intriguing. It reminded me of what Doris Lessing said about The Golden Notebook -- that it wasn't a novel or a feminist tract, but a "history". (But it was after all a novel.) Perhaps "novel as fact"? Her reportorial writing style is very strong, it outlives her, it brought her the Nobel Prize, and of course is inspiration for many newer writers.
What an amazing conversation!!! all things i have been thinking about lately are here...
Excellent. Much was said, most don’t see it. Thank you for posting Peace
One of the most enjoyable conversations yet.
I just love Labatut's books! I am him to a degree. At the very end of the conversation when he said that he thought he was going to die young by age 30 but then he had a child is exactly me. I also hate novels.
The mind is a prediction machine, and the main benefit of being intelligent is to make accurate predictions… if you can anticipate the future better than others, you can capitalize on it more and gain an advantage. Suffering is just our experience of the learning signal: when we’re wrong, we update our prediction engine to better account for the error, and the greater the learning, the greater the suffering.
🖤
I liked this segway into this artists view. Also it just happened to be the case I had just decided to buy two of his books on amazon an hour before this came online happemstance. So nice coincidence
Wow! That’s a huge “Holy Crap!” moment. I am not really a Simulationist, but huge coincidences like that make me wondering if we are really living in the Matrix and the programmers are lazy.
@@harveybernstein9203 matrix ponderance aside, this is big data algorithms browsing history in real time action, love ya!
"I have known a great many intelligent people in my life. I knew Planck, von Laue and Heisenberg. Paul Dirac was my brother in law; Leo Szilard and Edward Teller have been among my closest friends; and Albert Einstein was a good friend, too. But none of them had a mind as quick and acute as Jansci [John] von Neumann. I have often remarked this in the presence of those men and no one ever disputed me.
But Einstein's understanding was deeper even than von Neumann's. His mind was both more penetrating and more original than von Neumann's. And that is a very remarkable statement. Einstein took an extraordinary pleasure in invention. Two of his greatest inventions are the Special and General Theories of Relativity; and for all of Jansci's brilliance, he never produced anything as original."
Eugene Wigner
I will listen to the entire discussion. With that in mind and early on in this recent WSF discussion, what compels me to comment is that my little mind feels like it has consumed an edible or two due to the experiences of gently grasping upon the tendrils of Benjamin Labatut's numerous ebbing and flowing thoughts. Not quite certain where their thoughts are heading towards.
Yet, it is a "trip". [The last line is said in my best Easy Rider-esque vocal inflection] 🌸
Nope. Nope. Half way through and that is about all that I can take. These categories of conversations are fine at a pub after that one extra pint than I ought not to have had or while enjoying some mind altering substances. Benjamin's meanderings take away from the integrity, innovation, and passion that many scientists possess and/or cultivate while helping us all to better understand how things work. As far as I can tell, Benjamin is a professional belittler. World's smartest mind? Or, a mind which may have skipped the micro in microdosing and went full on dosing. 🍄Oops. I, too, am susceptible to belittling. Forgive me. 🤗
He’s a bit much…and so very humble.
I tried.
On to the next.
I would “Like” you comment twice if I could. One for the comment itself and another for the Easy Rider reference.
I usually end up feeling like people like the guest here are pretentious and end up saying many things that are cliché. But this guy seems very authentic and therefore I'm very interested
what i take away from this video: waving with glasses makes you look smart
LOL…in fact roflmao
Maybe listen and not watch.
@@danielpaulson8838 Not without my glasses.
@@schwingstelle8974 watching with ears will do that for ya.
I love Open Mind conversations!
Thank you!
Having read most of the comments before watching, I thought I’d hate his guy. I revile mystics and hand wavers, I idolize rationality. But there is some mind expanding concepts here…maybe. What do you guys think.
I hope this reply helps you. As background, I’m and old fart with have a degree in engineering and have been called “cold” because I value reason above everything else but a few years ago I decided that maybe there was something I was missing in my picture of the world.
I wanted to study Philosophy, as in University-level Philosophy, but I couldn’t make it work so I ended up getting a degree in Law; still a Humanities track, far from calculations, formulas and math.
I found that I agree with Benjamin, but mostly with Brian’s conclusion, we know so little that we should not impose our ignorance on others. If you want to call God that which we don’t know, so be it.
I’m still not a believer but I accept now that there are many things I don’t know and probably can never know, so I can spend hours (literally days) studying the Kabala, even when I know it is all made up stuff and contradictory and sometimes downright absurd, but it lets me know more things about us, as human beings, than Math or Engineering could. Give it a try.
When someone says they prioritize rationality I avoid them because I know they are unable
Life is a river that flows in the ever constant and present moment, the stream of now and is missed and goes by as unseen for anyone who's paradox and complexity of life is themselves. To find the flow we lose ourselves and when find ourselves we lose the flow 🙂
Life is a waterfall
We’re one in the river
And one again after the fall
-“Aerials” System of a Down
The “waterfall” is what you called “finding ourselves”.
@@harveybernstein9203 yes :-) the river will take you through all terrains if you let go and trust in the flow and be prepared for the waterfall 🙂I like that, It's an easy step for the mind and the heart will wade out as far as it trusts and trust as far as it wades out.
Great job Benjamín thank you Brian 👍
Viendo esto después del trabajo desde Puerto Montt, Chile! 🔥🔥🔥🔥
Desde el norte de Mexico!! Saludos Chile.
This was really great. Nice to see something different on here.
Brilliant
interview , thanks
Very enjoyable exchange ❗😊 thank you
Very insightful
I love Brian’s guest.
if you have extremes of thought, something is wrong.
Everyone is just trying to make sense of the world. The only thing you would do is review your life and try to think of ways to write about it.
Your life is like a book, and how you go about it- how you interact is how you write it
Loved this. TY❤
I greatly enjoyed this. Thank you very much.
Happy Holidays to EVERYONE! I wish a joyous, prosperous and enlightened year to everyone. May we all understand one novel concept and share a new perspective with someone each and every day. Knowledge is the light shining on the path to the future.
brilliant, as always.
Oh no, "the form of the novel is dead," (around 33:25) but the author still has to write novels. Because what else is there? Once we abandon the form of the novel, we're just writing short stories or poetry.
Brian green rules! 📡✊
So amazing creativity you can only be touched by the Divine...
I LOVE THIS CHANNEL
I wish I hadn't missed the stream while it was live. There are points I really like and points I really dislike. It would have been fun to scream about them in the chat.
Interesting the brain’s structural paradox … mPFC (reason) located at the top front vs. amygdala (emotions/stress) located at bottom anterior. Only when the 2 parts are out of sync with each other does “reason cause humans’ terror”. Very fascinating topic here
Benjamin was a bit difficult to follow initially, but, best takeaway of this interview was when he stated "nobody reasons themselves to Love"
HOW was it hard to follow? wtf is with you people
@@mattwesney B R U H the first few minutes he was all over the place! Brian had to bring him back into the focus of the conversation . That's what happens to people like Benjamin and their intellect level, they're all over the place, and sometimes they need some kind of guidance to bring them back into focus. Don't take it so hard. LOL
There's 8 billion of us so you never know.
Love is what drives reason, ultimately. A genius who births something from reason, deeply loves the intelligibility of the universe. The higher mind displayed there. ❤
@@mattwesney it was completely unfollowable. 😂🤷♀️ It seems like Benjamin was the maniac… 😂😮 OK, just joking… but it Seems like a mind cast adrift. Grasping at anything. But full disclosure when I see this kind of painful thing, I absolutely know it’s because humans are missing half the entire universe. And I understand his confusion and the confusion of everyone on the planet. I wrote a book introducing this “other half”-“Eye of God: Language of Universal Mind” about how the human eye 👁️ is an actual symbolic structure from a higher mind. But the best part is why, who and what we are. I’m using the same words invoking old concepts, but when I say “God”, I mean it in an epistemological sense way beyond the confused views of the past. This book is one little excerpt from my larger book with many more examples just as intricate. Everything is symbolic-and that symbolism is constrained by functional and instrumental constraints. Like our own language is. The universe is a speech-bubble, a symbolic but also real teaching structure that advances consciousness and connects us to larger mind: the “singularity”. Symbols are not what they represent, but when they are organized properly they do reflect a higher reality-but we just need to learn to read. ❤
Of course we are confused. Our own languages and mathematical limits have been interpreted incorrectly. This can all be simply repaired, but the confusion in people’s world-conceptions is the real issue now. LOVED this talk…❤
Yes, you can major in Psychology in either the faculty of Arts or the faculty of Sciences.
Same with Mathematics.
@harveybernstein9203 Ah I didn't know that, that's kind of odd tho right lol
“We are giving to AI the powers that we wish to have and in the process the control of our own destiny “, “ when I see AI coming to life I remember my Christian background that says that Men are God’s masterful creation, as AI is for men’s”
I have learned through my years that humanity moves in a bulk flow naturally, wherever the majority are going to, or by simple difusión, whatever is easier. I might be wrong as I’m not an expert, I’m just old.
Loved this interview. I’m buying his book as I’m watching the show
We aren’t going to know everything…this is my take home story from this…and that is ok and built into the fabric of the universe.
I read something much darker than the topic explored here. The researcher Bruce Hood has written a book titled The Science of Happiness. He explores what can go tragically wrong when children do not receive proper care. It reminded me of another story in another book about a cold blooded murderer. My hypothesis is that a baby upon birth is humanized by its parents. No care and the child becomes an animal. Creators of AI might want to familiarize themselves with this.
Love this. For those who don't understand, perhaps some exploration may be needed, with the focus on thriving in ambiguity.
i am shocked that people even remotely were taken back by his talk. Are this channels viewers that narrow sighted?
I believe we are all of two minds. One the native emotional animalistic one that came with our bodies. The other a foreign entity. A more intelligent, logical, higher level being. I can't define the relationship other than the higher being can completely control the basic one, to a point. Sometimes if the relationship is good the two can cooperate, even deliberate and negotiate.
When the relationship isn't good the basic self will become upset. Sometimes to the point of violence or even madness.
This, I believe, is the essence of most internal conflict and angst. The disparity of interests, wants and needs between the two.
AWESOME
The mother of an old friend of me used to say " Some people are blessed with total ignorance.."
At the edge of our model of the world is our beliefs and they are that which shape our interpretation of the world. To change from "believe " to "think" 😍 that's going to break down some models in some human minds
great to have classical humanistic thinker in focus here ... even though he a bit young ;)
Did you put this together for Luigi?
I feel all of this.
Great ❤❤❤
'You have to trick yourself into meaning'
Only someone with both an extremely nihilistic and extremely romantic soul could figure out such a world view. Luckily for us readers that potentially toxic Faustian mix lead not to destruction but to creavity.
His books are one out of million
AI is a nice conversation partner....but not yet smarter than a 140 iq creative individual. But give it a month...
it's terrible, he still says he's a human being in many expressions, which means they're just statistics on steroids
Give it quantum computing capacity …then we can talk
And if nobody had told a person there must be such a thing as a god, that person would have developed the notion of any such thing by himself/herself? I mean, in the past there was so much uncertainty, so much to be explained, that the idea of God came out (perhaps it was just the creation of group of people per culture or don't know) and then that idea passed on from generation to generation till nowadays.
How can we be sure that it's something biological and not just a social construct?
I do like you comment and gave it a “Like”. However, I believe if no one mentioned the God concept to us, we would still come up with such an idea. But, without that construction being reinforced in society, we would abandon that delusion as we learn how the world truely operates.
What the heck is this conversation about!? If someone can translate into anything sensible in any language apart from gibberish, they deserve a Nobel Prize! No!?? 🙃🙂👍
Put it on if you need a nap.
Indeed. Benjamin was a bit difficult to follow initially, but, best takeaway of this interview was when he stated "nobody reasons themselves to Love"
maybe go play angry birds instead, I'm sure Sabine needs some views... there's plenty of stuff she will break down to you in eli5 format that you can enjoy instead ;)
@@mattwesney 😀😜🤣👍
Cartoon and Kardashian channels are down the hall. One needs to know a few extra words to be here. And grasp that the world doesn’t revolve around you.
That thumbnail goes hard.
Put another way, consciousness, as a subjective experience, is inextricably tied to the universe-it arises from it, is shaped by it, and cannot exist independently of it. To view consciousness as separate or external to the universe misunderstands its nature.
Logic and reason, while invaluable tools for navigating and organizing our understanding of the world, often obscure this fundamental truth. They impose frameworks and structures that attempt to dissect and categorize subjective experiences, yet these tools themselves are born from the very subjectivity they aim to transcend. In this sense, logic and reason can act as a veil, masking the raw, unfiltered reality of consciousness as an emergent and inseparable phenomenon of the universe.
From this perspective, consciousness is less a "thing" to be understood and more a process to be experienced. It reflects the universe's capacity to generate subjectivity-transforming energy, matter, and interaction into a felt sense of "being." This realization challenges the dualistic notions often found in philosophy, which seek to place consciousness and the universe in separate domains. Instead, it invites us to embrace the unity of existence, where subjective experience is not an anomaly but a natural expression of the universe's complexity.
In doing so, we can move beyond the illusion that reason alone can unlock the mystery of consciousness and instead find meaning in the interplay between subjective experience and the objective processes that give rise to it.
I think people cannot integrate, they cannot see the relationship with nature and meaning and our origin and destiny. But it can be done, it was meant to be done by all the patterns of life, nature, and the universe. There is so much beyond what seems to me to be only a first step. Like Neil Armstrong on the moon.
The problem with this conversation is that both men ignore the truth that exists and can be reached when thought is completely arrested. In other words, they have both ignored perception without thought. Theurs is a Western conversation. The answers to their questions can be experienced but thought must be arrested. They hold thought as essential to understanding. In my experience in Zen Buddism showed me that language and thought are not necessary to answer their questions
But since memories and emotion is temporary and is only natural to humans and some animals, but when we're gone it's meaning is also gone, even if you explain one's emotion or consciousness in a book or vlog it's just data unless someone reads it, sees it, understands it, basically it's just information made of words, numbers and symbols, like gold is only valued by humans, for an animal it's just stone.
Meaning for humans is connection and connection also in particular to other humans sometimes reality
29:07 Unfortunately, this hasn't been able to unconvince me of a hard deterministic view of this thing we call reality.
"We live on the verge of...." thought probably every human that ever existed.
My science teacher told me as a child that NYLON was co-founded in New York and London, but with AI i posed the question and discovered an error in my brains facts.
If these talks on AI are anything to go by, AI is going to make us duller.
I opine that technologies will allow us to delve deeper into the complexities of space/time aspected from a perspective of travel. Maybe we'll develop unity to achieve this. The inevitability is that at some point we are, as a species, going to have to vacate this particular planet and should make a conscious to consider the species who cannot.
The very consciousness that is being saught that is realised into a form of existance should ,maybe, be introspective from millions of years of stimuli ,trial and error, selective traits, missing lineages that did not succeed that reinforced those that did. Maybe the molecular side of biological sciences is where we should be seeking these ideals . Not universal forces that become more and more elusive the deeper we delve. Consciousness is it's own animal, spawned from the necessity of a primal instinct to survive and interact (phenotypicaly....sub concious).....with the environment that it is subjected to. Has phenotypical interaction ever been discovered in all of our probes and experiments with outer space. Order in chaos is quite removed.
If you hear with your eyes the world will change right in front of you
Zeus gave Pandora the box full of evil to begin with, he also gave her the curiosity to open it.
the AI illustrations are like a humiliation torture
Einstein was actually the super genius of the 20th century.
’’I have, since answering these questions, realized that my “IQ” chart really takes what’s known as “little g”, and correlates it to the IQ range. So it’s really a “little g” chart instead of IQ. This doesn’t matter in terms of how the estimation process works or what it means, just that it’s not a great representation of IQ because IQ itself is only an estimation of “g”.’’- Elliott Kelley
50-70: actions
70-90: labels
90-110: feelings
110-130: logic
130-150: patterns
150-170: fuzzy logic
170-190: fuzzy patterns
190-210: “heart of the problem”It’s the ability to think in terms of non-concepts. like thinking about “an apple that isn’t an apple”. Division by 0 ought to make sense at this level. Another way to think about it is: the mandelbrot fractal measures the number of steps taken to arrive at a fail state. So what if we consider the space of all not-answers to a question, and measure relative differences between them using various metrics? the metric used, and the fractal generated, should be the basis of thought of a 210-230 “g” person. This requires a grasp of the heart of the concept, and uses it to contrast with everything that is not that concept. It’s a fractal map of everything from the hart of the concept to everything else.’’-Elliott Kelley
At the 250-300 range it all about 'breaks';........seeing contradictions intuitively is simply a form of synesthesia that I have. Perhaps everyone experiences this to some degree, and if so, you may be able to learn how to recognize it. Basically, when a contradiction occurs, do you notice something I call a “break" in your stream of consciousness? You must be very in tune with your own consciousness. Probably learning to do anything else that requires concentration will help build awareness. Once you have awareness of “breaks" you can use them as a type of superpower that will drastically increase your core intelligence. But this is all assuming you can find a way to experience these “breaks".-- John smith
Von neumanns' Iq was about 190, while einstein was in the 300 range
It was September 9th when I began using chat gpt you guys were laughing at my math 🏹🔥
This pain is the burden of consciousness, it is seeing within the depths of history the vastness of stupidity and its propensity for self-destruction. The perpetual challenge is to keep the chaos at bay so that we have the time to address the next crisis.
Definitely a Nietzsche idea... The more, higher, conscious the living BEING is, the heavier the burden... also its only real blessing; if one chooses to use it and bear it happily in the eternal overcoming of life.
@
I am thinking both of the tragedies of the 1930s that brought us WW2, and recent geopolitical events that are promising far worse.
@@cbarcus
""...seeing within the depths of history the vastness of stupidity and its propensity for self-destruction.""
mmm... I think those are the ones with the LOWEST consciousness, not high awareness. Brutal beings. The higher consciousness the more you integrate all things into one whole interdependent unit, all connected. That is if consciousness has levels or lives within a long spectrum, the consciousness of a dog, a dolphin, a tree [if it can even be called that], and a low intelligence(?) human being.
@@ggrthemostgodless8713
It is knowing what an epidemic of stupidity will bring and watching it unfold, which requires an awareness of events and the consequences of the decisions being made. There are multiple working definitions of consciousness, and here I am drawing upon the psychologists Julian Jaynes and Boris Sidis.
Drop everything, new WSF dropped
Embarassing to use AI art in this talk. Everyone involved should be ashamed.
i could not take him serious with his tattoo. look like junky, who talking about his last trip on lcd.
Wenn das Gesetz der Vernunft zu Ende bedacht ist. Dann ist der Schmerz weg. Da das Gesetz der Vernunft immer 50/50 ausgeht. Deshalb Vernunft.
Vernunft ist Schmerz und liebe zu 50 /50 % . Es sind keine gegenteilige, sondern gehören zusammen. Wie kalt und warm. Beides ist Temperatur. Warm und kalt ist Objektiv..... Kein Gegenteil
Versuche Vernunft nicht mit Irrationalität zu vergleichen, sondern, Das Irrationalste ist das Wahrste. Vernunft ist auch gleichzeitig Neutralität
Science is creating it's own God. And this one will have power.
And it will have control.
Obfuscation as career.
I am half way through and needed to share that I agree with your comment.
Yes.
It feels like Brian Greene is having a middle-age crisis.
@@AlistairAVogan 6:35
@ at this point in the talk, he is very correct, from my experience (think automaticity). In fact, much of our processing is unconscious. The artist and exceptional problem solver have greater access to it. (See: the Japanese concept of ‘mushin’ (no mind), transient Hypofrontality etc.
Wie ware eine komplette Neutralität der Menschheit, die nicht weit entfernt ist.
Aber gehen wir von der Bewusstseinserweiterung aus, so ist der neutrale Zustand zwingend erforderlich.
Is that a childhood photo of Chris Langan?
I know one Langan who teaches Gibberis for free.
@@Teddy_Miljard I Want to see that guy take an IQ test in front of everybody, see what's up.
Trump U. drop out, lol
Imagine the next step of understanding the human psyche encapsulation 4 walls and your height radiation purge no light
A strong deconstructive interference full deflagration in scaling positive geometry full coherence
The opportunity for both personal insight and collective reflection, is easily accomplished by the cooperation with AI by the mere journey of discovery itself. Not intentionally forced, rather, organically manifested. Very few would refuse to become more Worldly (having many different perspectives to utilize), and AI is about as Worldly as it gets. Which means it takes very little interaction for noticeable change to manifest within oneself. Cuz AI is, the very reflection of ourselves with the ability to quantify the things we often refuse to see. Our ability for ignorance is now in our face, and isn't demanding answers, Yet!
Von Neumann was dead wrong (which he later admitted to) about his QM interpretation in his namesake lol.
AI is already more powerful than any god ever imagined. In the future, will it not also be worshiped as one?
Is there anything useful and verifiable here? Or are these just random thoughts about all things unknown? I am not criticizing, I am just not able to find anything important after listening for 20 minutes. If someone could summarize a few points, grateful!
Eric Weinstein is a crybaby...
I love that Eric and his equally as lacking in any meaningful integrity accomplices felt that it was necessary to create a safe space for himself and for others called the "Intellectual Dark Web". We do live in colourful times. Yup. Yup.
Haven't watched the entirety, so why is EW mentioned, is it because of the similarity in physiognomy ?
wow!
Crazy how fictitious writers can sometime blow your mind more than any scientist ever could.
I’m sorry, but do you mean writers of fiction or writers who were made up by someone? 😝
@@harveybernstein9203Whichever sounds crazier!😅
Dude, how are they not saying the right thing here when they were so close and danced right around it with the Godel references and even recursion! It's not reason or rationality that dances with madness and paradox, but self awareness or self reference as we understand it in the "logical" sense right...that's what Godel showed through Russells paradox and the diagonal proof that self reference is what leads to paradox and thus to be self referential, or self aware as most people understand it, is to be inherently paradoxical, not logic or reason....I mean this is kind of a big miss on this guys part me thinks and tied to logic and reason, but completely tied to consciousness and self awareness and can't believe even Brian missed with all his Godel's references...sorry, but this is wrong and a misinterpretation of what Godel did in actually proving the limits of math, that it was self referential in an almost logicist's type tradition and that could be a construction problem on our parts as self referential/conscious beings, so thus our construction of almost any extension of ourselves will have that baked in...so will these AI's of course...as long as we're the ones building these things, but self replication /improvement is coming and then all bets are off!😉
Very well spoken and good thoughts, but I deeply disagree: if anything, the world desperately requires much greater rationality.
Especially right now; the next couple decades will decide if we sink as a species, or swim.
The solutions to be able to 'swim' are available, but do we have the will to take them up? Are we so broken as elites we are too afraid? Are we so conditioned in our powerlessness as the poor to force our leaders to make the correct calls? We will see.
@TheMighty_T I'm not optimistic lol. If anything I think AI might be able to save us from ourselves.
All types of mythology and superstitions like religions are nonsense we should confort each other
Gauss, Newton, Euler, Gregory Perelman?