So if you where choosing between the gamo fox swarm, and the gamo whisper swarm which one would you choose. There is only 20$ between them ,and the fox is Springer, and whisper is gas ram.
The examination of the pellets after being fired probably gives more evidence of the efficiency of the ammunition then looking at it before. The interface between pellet and barrel was key. Thank-you for posting this video. Chas C, England.
Thank you. Very accurate observations. I see the same problems with my 1377 crosman. Overbored for most crosman pellets. Bad fit. But put in rws or jsb pellets and wow. Dead accurate to 30 yards. Snug fit, same gun. Is the gun wrong or the pellet? Both. Find the right ammo for your guns and stock up. That works for me. Use cheap pellets for indoor practice on rainy days. 20 feet, not 20 yards! Rws has a very good price for hunting. 8.3 gr superdomes. Makes jsb nervous...
As far as I can make out from your tests is the gas ram actually has a quicker lock time i.e. the pellet is leaving the barrel a lot quicker. You need to try a softer lead pellet or even a slug.
Interesting. So when lubing pellets and they tend to shoot more accurately, do you think the lube acts as a sealant against the barrel rather than a lube? Thanks for info as usual and keeping us thinking.
The lube also, most likely, allows the pellet to move faster through the barrel, which possibly allows the pellet to beat the powerplants impact out the end of the barrel, preventing the harmonic damping effect that imparts inconsistencies in POI. James, have you done any speed testing between lubed and unlubed pellets before?
Both. But with the right pellet, minimal lube works. Jsb factory lube is perfect for my 1377. Rws also. Crosman cheap pellets are too small for my crosman gun and shoot badly. Bad fit.
Great video again, But especially what you're saying is the Spring piston is flaring the skirt of the pellets so the rifle in can do its job. I know in 22 caliber there is 5.4 And 5.5 size pellets some manufactures disclose this On the tin. One thing I did not know until now is that there is that great of difference in bore size in the rifles. My question to you is that do you think if they tightened up the tolerances in the gas ram rifles to make Them between 5.1 to 5.4 there would be any accuracy change or do you think it's just purely because the slam of the Spring piston flares the skirt more than the gas ram. Great video once again and it's just making me want to buy that little Fox swarm more and more I've Been wanting to buy a little 22 caliber pellet gun in multi shot and I think that's the one.
So I'm wondering if on the spring the skirt has time to expand before there is enough pressure to really launch it down the barrel, whereas on the gas it had enough pressure to launch it earlier so the skirt had less time to expand before letting loose. I'm wondering if most of the expansion happens back where it's loaded.
I'm in the same school of thought as you, and notice I get the best groups when I seat .22 cal pellets with a 1/4 inch found ball. It expands the skirt out into the loading chamfer and dramatically changes the recoil impulse.p
The pellets are all the same diameter as the barrel. I think the feed ramps are the issue on most. You just need to find the right ones your rifle likes.
I'm confused. The introduction suggests the metal spring is better than the gas piston, but your subsequent remarks indicate it's the bore diameter. Did you chronograph the before and after? Did the accuracy change? It's common knowledge that the projectile must be larger than the bore in any gun to perform best.
This is why I'm not fond of Crosman now after seeing and noticing the bulk air rifles bought over bored...and I did chronograph 80fps difference the coil spring was slower which is fine because the pellet was blown out more and more accurate 30yd than the nitro piston....so it did come down to the barrel in my case, but as along the barrel has a seal, nitrogen ram will work too
@@ALLABOUTAIRGUNS Thanks for the reply. I just bought a Sig Sauer ASP 20 in 22 cal, and it's more accurate than a Paul Watts tuned FWB 124, R7, R1, and R9. Nitro ram and a tight bore with a choked barrel. 23 ft.lb. Best gun ever for me, and cheaper ($349). Blackhound Genesis 44-14X44 FFP scope ($299).
Fascinating! This is a very important video to me. Let me tell you why. I have a CMMG AR15 NATO. I have a .22LR Conversion Bolt Assembly and Mags to allow me to shoot more often cheaper using .22LR. I can not get a consistent grouping at 50 yards or more. Now I know why. The bore is .223 and .22LR are .220 SO the bullet has too much blow-by thereby hindering it for consistent grouping. I did expect this but never understood provably why. Now my next question is not pellet related: Do they make .22LR with larger head size that will allow me less blow-by thereby tightening up my groups with my CMMG .223 NATO?
5.56/223 is actually a .224" bullet diameter so I'd try Eley sport or Aguila superextra which is pretty close to that spec also the groups out of the conversion kit will vary due to the bullet jump ...
@@ALLABOUTAIRGUNS Thanks for the tip. Very interesting that this conversation has never been approached before by anyone else. You think like nobody else, that's for sure. What do you mean by the term bullet jump? I've never heard that term used.
@@paddlingfan1 thanks! the ogive of a bullet or where the rifling starts to engrave on the bullet when it's fired so for example on a 22lr the first ring down from the tip of the bullet alot of 22lr chambers have enough play or slop so every 22 load will work thats one culprit to having a precision shooting rifle because the bullet has to travel in the chamber then it hits the rifling and if the bullet isn't straight it shows down range
@@ALLABOUTAIRGUNS Interesting! I bought the Conversion Kit so I could practice with cheap ammo. With the Covid ammo wipeout I'm glad I bought what I did. If I start looking for .22lr with a better head size now I might just price myself out of my original intent altogether. But I might just order several different bunches up like you suggest and see what happens n a month or two. I have a feeling it will make a very large difference. Thanks again. We should get together sometime. I'm north of Terre Haute. I'd buy you lunch.
Video is interesting AS USUAL, but I didnt understand a fig. Could you draw short conclusions in the end of your extraordinary and interesting videos? You are watched on whole planet Earth. ( Little green alien creatures also probably do). THANK YOU
Thank you. Glad I am not the only one. I couldn't tell what was supposed to be the point of the slo-mo shooting, and the pellets all looked the same to me - blurry. All I know is, my gas ram gun shoots much better than my springer.
So if you where choosing between the gamo fox swarm, and the gamo whisper swarm which one would you choose. There is only 20$ between them ,and the fox is Springer, and whisper is gas ram.
The examination of the pellets after being fired probably gives more evidence of the efficiency of the ammunition then looking at it before. The interface between pellet and barrel was key. Thank-you for posting this video. Chas C, England.
Thanks for watching!
Man I really enjoy your videos. I have learned a lot. Very appreciated. From a fellow Hoosier
Thanks for watching!
You are always on point James! 👍💪🇺🇸
Thank you. Very accurate observations. I see the same problems with my 1377 crosman. Overbored for most crosman pellets. Bad fit. But put in rws or jsb pellets and wow. Dead accurate to 30 yards. Snug fit, same gun. Is the gun wrong or the pellet? Both. Find the right ammo for your guns and stock up. That works for me. Use cheap pellets for indoor practice on rainy days. 20 feet, not 20 yards! Rws has a very good price for hunting. 8.3 gr superdomes. Makes jsb nervous...
As far as I can make out from your tests is the gas ram actually has a quicker lock time i.e. the pellet is leaving the barrel a lot quicker. You need to try a softer lead pellet or even a slug.
Interesting. So when lubing pellets and they tend to shoot more accurately, do you think the lube acts as a sealant against the barrel rather than a lube?
Thanks for info as usual and keeping us thinking.
Thanks! And yea its probably sealing better kind of like an oil filter with a few drops of oil around the seal before installing it
The lube also, most likely, allows the pellet to move faster through the barrel, which possibly allows the pellet to beat the powerplants impact out the end of the barrel, preventing the harmonic damping effect that imparts inconsistencies in POI.
James, have you done any speed testing between lubed and unlubed pellets before?
@@ALLABOUTAIRGUNS did you actually test the accuracy?
Both. But with the right pellet, minimal lube works. Jsb factory lube is perfect for my 1377. Rws also. Crosman cheap pellets are too small for my crosman gun and shoot badly. Bad fit.
Tight fitting pellet is key, get it out the barrel before the piston hits! No brainer.
have you tried pellet seating to give more time to expand the pellet?
Great video again, But especially what you're saying is the Spring piston is flaring the skirt of the pellets so the rifle in can do its job. I know in 22 caliber there is 5.4 And 5.5 size pellets some manufactures disclose this On the tin. One thing I did not know until now is that there is that great of difference in bore size in the rifles. My question to you is that do you think if they tightened up the tolerances in the gas ram rifles to make Them between 5.1 to 5.4 there would be any accuracy change or do you think it's just purely because the slam of the Spring piston flares the skirt more than the gas ram. Great video once again and it's just making me want to buy that little Fox swarm more and more I've Been wanting to buy a little 22 caliber pellet gun in multi shot and I think that's the one.
So I'm wondering if on the spring the skirt has time to expand before there is enough pressure to really launch it down the barrel, whereas on the gas it had enough pressure to launch it earlier so the skirt had less time to expand before letting loose. I'm wondering if most of the expansion happens back where it's loaded.
I'm in the same school of thought as you, and notice I get the best groups when I seat .22 cal pellets with a 1/4 inch found ball. It expands the skirt out into the loading chamfer and dramatically changes the recoil impulse.p
You need a chronograph they're cheap off eBay mine's been working for years
keep testing that fox very informative
So what is this all Means? 🤷🏻♂️
The pellets are all the same diameter as the barrel. I think the feed ramps are the issue on most. You just need to find the right ones your rifle likes.
I'm confused. The introduction suggests the metal spring is better than the gas piston, but your subsequent remarks indicate it's the bore diameter. Did you chronograph the before and after? Did the accuracy change? It's common knowledge that the projectile must be larger than the bore in any gun to perform best.
This is why I'm not fond of Crosman now after seeing and noticing the bulk air rifles bought over bored...and I did chronograph 80fps difference the coil spring was slower which is fine because the pellet was blown out more and more accurate 30yd than the nitro piston....so it did come down to the barrel in my case, but as along the barrel has a seal, nitrogen ram will work too
@@ALLABOUTAIRGUNS Thanks for the reply. I just bought a Sig Sauer ASP 20 in 22 cal, and it's more accurate than a Paul Watts tuned FWB 124, R7, R1, and R9. Nitro ram and a tight bore with a choked barrel. 23 ft.lb. Best gun ever for me, and cheaper ($349). Blackhound Genesis 44-14X44 FFP scope ($299).
@@tompedersen6564 that's awesome! Sounds like you have a good setup
Fascinating! This is a very important video to me. Let me tell you why. I have a CMMG AR15 NATO. I have a .22LR Conversion Bolt Assembly and Mags to allow me to shoot more often cheaper using .22LR. I can not get a consistent grouping at 50 yards or more. Now I know why. The bore is .223 and .22LR are .220 SO the bullet has too much blow-by thereby hindering it for consistent grouping. I did expect this but never understood provably why. Now my next question is not pellet related: Do they make .22LR with larger head size that will allow me less blow-by thereby tightening up my groups with my CMMG .223 NATO?
5.56/223 is actually a .224" bullet diameter so I'd try Eley sport or Aguila superextra which is pretty close to that spec also the groups out of the conversion kit will vary due to the bullet jump ...
@@ALLABOUTAIRGUNS Thanks for the tip. Very interesting that this conversation has never been approached before by anyone else. You think like nobody else, that's for sure. What do you mean by the term bullet jump? I've never heard that term used.
@@paddlingfan1 thanks! the ogive of a bullet or where the rifling starts to engrave on the bullet when it's fired so for example on a 22lr the first ring down from the tip of the bullet alot of 22lr chambers have enough play or slop so every 22 load will work thats one culprit to having a precision shooting rifle because the bullet has to travel in the chamber then it hits the rifling and if the bullet isn't straight it shows down range
@@ALLABOUTAIRGUNS Interesting! I bought the Conversion Kit so I could practice with cheap ammo. With the Covid ammo wipeout I'm glad I bought what I did. If I start looking for .22lr with a better head size now I might just price myself out of my original intent altogether. But I might just order several different bunches up like you suggest and see what happens n a month or two. I have a feeling it will make a very large difference. Thanks again. We should get together sometime. I'm north of Terre Haute. I'd buy you lunch.
@@paddlingfan1 ahh nice! I'm about 20 min south of Indy
Question why would you change a piston to a coil spring???? Just wondering????
If it works better, do it. Why does crosman sell pellets that do not properly fit crosman barrels? That does not work.
When i shoot my hatsan 135 and break the barrel afterwards, there comes smoke out of it.. that cant be good, right?
th-cam.com/video/9A3pvx95zLI/w-d-xo.html
@@natecutter thanks!
Damn lot of smoke coming out of that one 😮
I had to laugh so hard with the scope/breach thing lol
Probably just vaporized oil. Just dont light a match you will be ok.
You said "cole springs".
lol
Tighter is better and yes, get it out of the barrel before it gets fertilized,,, much cheaper and better.. :)
Thanks
Buy Gamo Made is Spain
Is the qb chief made in China?
Yes by made Beeman specs
Video is interesting AS USUAL, but I didnt understand a fig. Could you draw short conclusions in the end of your extraordinary and interesting videos? You are watched on whole planet Earth. ( Little green alien creatures also probably do). THANK YOU
Thank you. Glad I am not the only one. I couldn't tell what was supposed to be the point of the slo-mo shooting, and the pellets all looked the same to me - blurry. All I know is, my gas ram gun shoots much better than my springer.
Gamo chokes their barrels
yep
Could be a good thing...
Science
Wash your clothes