May I express my thanks to you for these very well presented, interesting and extremely informative talks. My father often talked of that period and now I feel as though I have had a thorough briefing.
Thanks again for another fascinating episode into NSW's rather dramatic political history. Cripes but Lang was certainly a very unique character. Does Victoria have any similarly interesting political history too? Or are we more boring down here, lol. Looking forward to learning the Constitutional issues involved in the Lang saga. 👍🌟
These sort of what I can only describe as ‘pre and immediately post-federation’ stories are really interesting! This and the ‘sleeping MP and a Fast Car’ videos are my favourite! It gives a fascinating insight into early Australian politics and the influence of the states! Thank so much for uploading these amazing videos!
I recently found out that Lang was Henry Lawson’s brother in law and that a Bertram Stevens was a good friend of Lawson’s - a man apparently unrelated to the premier.
I've sometimes wondered whether there'd be benefit to state governors and the Governor-General having a team of legal advisors that are appointed based on merit to advise them whether executive decisions and bills that require their assent are lawful. They could, of course, also advise them on other matters like the use of their reserve powers. If these decisions or bills are not lawful, it might be useful if the governor or Governor-General can send it back to its originator (cabinet for executive decisions and parliament for bills) and request changes that are required to make it lawful. If they refuse to make the required changes, it might be useful if they have the power to refer the decisions or bills to a court for a decision on its legality. Can't help but to wonder whether that would have helped to prevent stuff like Robodebt and the passing of bills that are eventually struck down by the High Court. Sure, state governors and the Governor-General can seek legal advice if they think they're being asked to do something illegal like Sir Philip Game did, and to ask about the bounds of their reserve powers, but it may be helpful if there's this extra check and balance for the legality of executive decisions and laws. Just an opinion, I'm curious to see what Prof Twomey has to say.
In Canada, they had such a mechanism for a while. Three experts were appointed (a leading constitutional lawyer, a leading political scientist and a leading legal practitioner), and required to come to a unanimous view in giving advice. Their existence and role were, however, secret (so they couldn't be lobbied or pressured by anyone). It seemed to work pretty well, but was later abolished by a PM who didn't like the idea of the GG having independent advice. In some countries, the GG has a power to refer a bill to a court to test its validity before giving assent.
The next after the election Sunday in speakers' corner [a Labor man] "give us guns Jack" [JT Lang] "Give you Guns, we gave you pencils last Saturday and you did not know what to do with them"
An extremely fascinating series about Lang and it gives an insight into the mechanics of the Whitlam dismissal in 1975 even if the circumstances were somewhat different. Lang does appear to have acted somewhat unconstitutionally even if legally in that his actions were approved by the NSW Parliament. But in 1932 there was a very different view of states rights vis a vie the Commonwealth.
One important difference was that the NSW Parliament could legislate with retrospective effect to fix breaches of State laws. But it couldn't do so with respect to Commonwealth laws - which led to the crux of the problem.
For those of us who live around the Cremorne/Neutral Bay area there'ss an added interest as DH Lawrence in his novel "Kangaroo" mentions the comings and goings of the New Guard in Murdoch Street - perhaps an apposite name for activities on the far right of politics!
"Prime minister" and "premier" are synonyms in British English. I think the King was simply not observing the Australian-English distinction in which the first minister of the CoA is termed "prime minister" and the first ministers of Australian states are termed "premiers".
G,day Professor from Sydney. Excellent explanation of a turbulent window of history in N.S.W Government. Would the records of correspondence be stored in the State archives office (is it still housed in the Rocks Sydney) or are they kept by Parliament office. 🌏🇦🇺
The NSW State Archives is out at St Mary's in the suburbs of Sydney. They have some of the files. There are also some in the NSW State Library (of correspondence with the Palace), in the Royal Archives at Windsor Castle and in the UK National Archives.
Thanks Prof. Did Lang know that Game consulted the NSW Chief Justice? Are you building up to 1975? Was Kerr across this detail regarding Game's actions?
It was common practice in all constitutional controversies for a vice-regal officer to consult the Chief Justice on constitutional issues. This was particularly so at the State level, where the Chief Justice was also usually the Lieutenant-Governor. I've written an article setting out a large number of examples of this occurring - indeed, it is hard to find any controversy pre-1975 when the Chief Justice was not consulted. Sometimes, two CJs were consulted (the CJ of the Supreme Court and the CJ of the High Court).
Is this true? If you can believe Wikipedia, she was born in India in 1907. Her father was Game's private secretary. As far as I know Sir Philip and Lady Game had three children, David, Philip Jnr, and Rosemary. During their time at Government House in Sydney they also had an Irish setter named Micky (who I suspect might have come from the dog refuge). Philip Jnr studied Science at Sydney University where he graduated with a BSc, he later worked as a geologist/petrologist. David died from illness in WW2 whilst in captivity as a POW. I gather Rosemary [Harmar] died in 2019. Some time ago she evidently wrote a book "Growing up at Government House". Micky died in November 1933 following a hernia operation.
You look so happy in every thumbnail ❤
Excellent Video each part was really engaging!
May I express my thanks to you for these very well presented, interesting and extremely informative talks. My father often talked of that period and now I feel as though I have had a thorough briefing.
Glad you found them helpful.
Thanks again for another fascinating episode into NSW's rather dramatic political history. Cripes but Lang was certainly a very unique character.
Does Victoria have any similarly interesting political history too?
Or are we more boring down here, lol.
Looking forward to learning the Constitutional issues involved in the Lang saga. 👍🌟
Victoria has an even more dramatic history, at least until the mid 1950s. One day, I'll get to it.
@constitutionalclarion1901 oooh, I'd really love to see that. 👍🙏🌟
These sort of what I can only describe as ‘pre and immediately post-federation’ stories are really interesting! This and the ‘sleeping MP and a Fast Car’ videos are my favourite! It gives a fascinating insight into early Australian politics and the influence of the states! Thank so much for uploading these amazing videos!
@@maxleonard5723 I’m really glad you enjoy them.
Fascinating story.
A wonderful tale of political "daring do".
I recently found out that Lang was Henry Lawson’s brother in law and that a Bertram Stevens was a good friend of Lawson’s - a man apparently unrelated to the premier.
I've sometimes wondered whether there'd be benefit to state governors and the Governor-General having a team of legal advisors that are appointed based on merit to advise them whether executive decisions and bills that require their assent are lawful. They could, of course, also advise them on other matters like the use of their reserve powers.
If these decisions or bills are not lawful, it might be useful if the governor or Governor-General can send it back to its originator (cabinet for executive decisions and parliament for bills) and request changes that are required to make it lawful. If they refuse to make the required changes, it might be useful if they have the power to refer the decisions or bills to a court for a decision on its legality. Can't help but to wonder whether that would have helped to prevent stuff like Robodebt and the passing of bills that are eventually struck down by the High Court.
Sure, state governors and the Governor-General can seek legal advice if they think they're being asked to do something illegal like Sir Philip Game did, and to ask about the bounds of their reserve powers, but it may be helpful if there's this extra check and balance for the legality of executive decisions and laws.
Just an opinion, I'm curious to see what Prof Twomey has to say.
In Canada, they had such a mechanism for a while. Three experts were appointed (a leading constitutional lawyer, a leading political scientist and a leading legal practitioner), and required to come to a unanimous view in giving advice. Their existence and role were, however, secret (so they couldn't be lobbied or pressured by anyone). It seemed to work pretty well, but was later abolished by a PM who didn't like the idea of the GG having independent advice.
In some countries, the GG has a power to refer a bill to a court to test its validity before giving assent.
@@constitutionalclarion1901 Thank you, informative, insightful and interesting as your comments always are!
Gough Whitlam was quite explicit in describing his "crash through or crash" mentality. It's not hard to see the influence.
I have the Dismissal of a Premier! (Found in a second hand bookstore, of course) You've motivated me to give it a read sometime.
The next after the election Sunday in speakers' corner [a Labor man] "give us guns Jack" [JT Lang] "Give you Guns, we gave you pencils last Saturday and you did not know what to do with them"
An extremely fascinating series about Lang and it gives an insight into the mechanics of the Whitlam dismissal in 1975 even if the circumstances were somewhat different. Lang does appear to have acted somewhat unconstitutionally even if legally in that his actions were approved by the NSW Parliament. But in 1932 there was a very different view of states rights vis a vie the Commonwealth.
One important difference was that the NSW Parliament could legislate with retrospective effect to fix breaches of State laws. But it couldn't do so with respect to Commonwealth laws - which led to the crux of the problem.
Wow! Many a time have I heard the warning of this story without knowing the whole truth!
Thanks.
For those of us who live around the Cremorne/Neutral Bay area there'ss an added interest as DH Lawrence in his novel "Kangaroo" mentions the comings and goings of the New Guard in Murdoch Street - perhaps an apposite name for activities on the far right of politics!
at 16:50 what did it have to do with the PM?
"Prime minister" and "premier" are synonyms in British English. I think the King was simply not observing the Australian-English distinction in which the first minister of the CoA is termed "prime minister" and the first ministers of Australian states are termed "premiers".
G,day Professor from Sydney.
Excellent explanation of a turbulent window of history in N.S.W Government.
Would the records of correspondence be stored in the State archives office (is it still housed in the Rocks Sydney) or are they kept by Parliament office.
🌏🇦🇺
The NSW State Archives is out at St Mary's in the suburbs of Sydney. They have some of the files. There are also some in the NSW State Library (of correspondence with the Palace), in the Royal Archives at Windsor Castle and in the UK National Archives.
Thanks Prof. Did Lang know that Game consulted the NSW Chief Justice? Are you building up to 1975? Was Kerr across this detail regarding Game's actions?
It was common practice in all constitutional controversies for a vice-regal officer to consult the Chief Justice on constitutional issues. This was particularly so at the State level, where the Chief Justice was also usually the Lieutenant-Governor. I've written an article setting out a large number of examples of this occurring - indeed, it is hard to find any controversy pre-1975 when the Chief Justice was not consulted. Sometimes, two CJs were consulted (the CJ of the Supreme Court and the CJ of the High Court).
Bethia Foote was Game's daughter.
Is this true? If you can believe Wikipedia, she was born in India in 1907. Her father was Game's private secretary.
As far as I know Sir Philip and Lady Game had three children, David, Philip Jnr, and Rosemary. During their time at Government House in Sydney they also had an Irish setter named Micky (who I suspect might have come from the dog refuge). Philip Jnr studied Science at Sydney University where he graduated with a BSc, he later worked as a geologist/petrologist. David died from illness in WW2 whilst in captivity as a POW. I gather Rosemary [Harmar] died in 2019. Some time ago she evidently wrote a book "Growing up at Government House". Micky died in November 1933 following a hernia operation.
Foote was the daughter of Game's private secretary. She collected all the letters and wrote a book. It is a helpful resource.