Fantastic video, thank you. The question though, if companies gels do not have the correct amount of sodium, how and what do we use? Normal table salt? Himalayan Salt in water? What do you recommend?
Great videos. Working with a sports nutrition company, I can assure you there is no conspiracy to put less than needed nor to put less in due to cost. A factor is government RDA’s and therefore trying to adhere to guidelines, even when we know they’re long outdated. Linked to this are the subsequent challenges, when we then have to make a max dosage statement on the box. Just another perspective. As a business, full of athletes, we are trying very hard to provide the products which meet the needs. Outdated legislation is a barrier.
Really appreciate you mentioning this. Crummy policy leading to poor outcomes for the public. We are so surprised!! 😂😂 Are you able to share what company you're with?
Omg. Where was this video a year ago. You’ve pretty much nailed all of my issues. And here i was thinking having 300mg per litre per hour might be too much.
Thanks for this video. You have helped me solve a problem that persisted for years. Endurance wise my head can go forever. I was limited by cramps. Discovering the power of sodium is awesome! Taking sodium earlier in the day also helped me with food cravings later in the day. My body needed sodium! Thanks again
Great content! Coming from your posts on Slowtwitch, your advocacy on increasing sodium intake helped me a lot with harder indoor sessions lasting a 3+ hours. I am a super salty sweater, and was getting a 'sloshy' feeling in my heart, consistently at 2.5hrs @ 270watts indoors. Ramped up the sodium intake during the ride, and I have pushed it out to 4 hours with no problems! You are quite possibly a lifesaver!
Yikes! Definitely see a cardiologist if you haven't already. Do whatever testing they recommend. Might be nothing! But better to know for sure. There are some great articles on slowtwitch on heart tests folks should do as they age.
This video has been very helpful for me! I unfortunately landed in the ER last September with hyponatremia due to working outside on a hot humid day. My PCP said my body “must be very good at filtering” since I wasn’t over-consuming water that day. We’ve been trialing a new electrolyte powder mix that has 600mg of sodium per serving, but I’m still having issues so going to start upping my consumption of sodium following this video and see how I fair. Thank you for making this!
Thanks for the feedback and we're really glad you found the video useful. During exercise, heavy sweaters can supplement with 800mg/l or even higher. It may be worth looking into sodium citrate as a source of sodium as this can be easier on the stomach and also it's much cheaper than buying electrolyte drinks especially if you're using it a lot. Let us know how it goes with the higher rate of sodium intake.
Check out the book The Salt Fix by James Denicolantonio . . I've been suffering from low sodium un my blood too for over a year now. Some days I consume like 4 or 5 teaspoon of salt.
I may have to check this out again. I have struggled with dehydration for years. Gave up on Gatorade a long time ago. The unflavored pedialyte worked far better than Gatorade. Finally found the Precision Hydration carbonated tabs. Now I can swim as long and as hard as I want without cramping issues during or after work outs. Hate waking up at night after rolling over and getting leg cramps. During a 1:45 swim, If I don't hydrate, I can drop 5 pounds. Construction days would be 10 pounds while drinking over a gallon of water and electrolytes. This science has come a long way.
Well, after a bout with heat exhaustion that put me into the emergency room over night, I learned to pay very close attention to my hydration, and what I call water weight. I actually have it down for what I am doing. Thanks.
Recently did a 140km road race in very hot humid climate and cramped big time at the 90km mark and was spat out the back. I was drinking 108g carbs per hour + 800mg Na and 200mg P and as ref I weigh 71kg. I haven’t had many encounters with cramps but suspected 2 things 1/ I was possibly sweating more than 1L/hr as all my training prior I was avoiding the hottest parts of the day but this race had me out in the heat and 2/ In a race scenario I was possibly working harder than what I was doing in training. That all said I have never tried to pre-load my body with electrolytes so this is a great tip and 2 if I’m honest with myself I should have trained harder with more intervals as road racing is all about the surges 👍👍
Sounds like you might have benefited from more water and sodium for sure! And yeah, more training, so long as your body handles it okay, is always a good thing for cramp prevention. :)
Wow, exactly what I needed. I almost passed out yesterday on a short 3mile run, felt dizzy, saw spots & my blood pressure was extremely low and had to walk the last 1000m even the walk was a struggle I had to sit multiple times. Changed my diet to a whole food a week ago and so my salt levels were way down compared to eating out.
Great stuff, as usual. A few things. Why are you not an advocate of sweat testing? That's how I have managed to dial in my sodium needs (1,425 mg of sodium per litre of sweat * 1-1.5 litres of sweat loss per hour, depending on conditions). Don't you need to know that sodium loss figure? Also, I liked your point about why companies don't have high sodium content in their products and the possible reasons you gave. Make sense. The few higher sodium products I've found are Precision Hydration (750 mg), ELMNT (1,000 per pack, but it's a very strong flavor so hard to double it up) and UCAN Hydrate (the highest concentration out there I believe.) Finally, I'm listening to the Huberman Lab podcast about salt and sodium right now which is giving me an intro to how the kidneys work - in detail. Highly recommended.
Great question. Yes, kind of left intentionally blank because daily sodium intake probably doesn't matter nearly as much as sodium intake during training. And, when sodium intake rates matter during training, they're almost always approaching gut limits. Here's a piece Dr. Alex wrote on sweat testing. www.triathlete.com/training/should-you-be-sweat-testing-lets-examine-the-trade-offs/ TLDR: sweat changes a lot for a lot of reasons, and it is often far less accurate than the sweat test might have you believe. Another good couple high sodium products are probably The Right Stuff, and maybe Skratch Hydration if you use it concentrated!
I don't think it is mentioned in the video, but sodium loss per volume of sweat is NOT LINEAR. There are numerous research articles on it, but as sweat rate increases, so does the amount of sodium that comes out with it. The video is a reasonable simplification of sodium needs, and he covers well the gut tolerances being a limiting factor. But I would suppose that is why sweat testing wouldn't be super helpful unless you are going to test under multiple sweat rates.
My anecdotal experience is that sweat testing is telling you the wrong side of the story i.e it reflects how much sodium you've been consuming rather than how much you need. If I've been taking higher sodium, the sweat test shows higher sodium concentration, and if I've been consuming less sodium, the sweat test shows low sodium concentration. So at the end of the day it doesn't provide me with actionable data.
@@RobGray777 assuming that anecdotal evidence is correct (there's research to support either side of that argument), you would need to pair the testing with thermal measurements and controlled exercise in an equally controlled environment to see if there is an optimal salt intake for thermoregulation (the whole point of sweating in the first place). Then you would have actionable data :)
so sounds like a good place start testing on self would be like 1200mg per liter. if I have a 5h ride and max amount of water I can bring is 3L would I add 3600mg (1200mgX3L) or would I do 6,000mg (1200mgX5hours)
Great vid thank you!! Does various forms of sodium like sodium citrate, lower stomach acid levels significantly? Does it contribute to Hypochlorhydria? Thanks again. Cheers.
It could, but the risk is much higher with sodium bicarb ingestion. Sodium citrate doesn't seem to have this effect in practice, especially since exercise tends to increase gut acid.
Great information and video! I always find I need to watch my sodium intake (big guy, heavy sweater, borderline high blood pressure[was on meds, lots weight and got off the meds]) and up my potassium to counter it. I do feel better over all and cramp a whole lot less (especially at night). Cheers !
Thank you for this and all of your videos - always learning multiple things each time! I have the RP endurance book, but this format really compliments/helps put all the info there into context which then helps it stick in my brain :)
Great videos very informative, thank you. I am doing training for ironman and trying to figure out how to carry my carbs and hydration on bike for 5-6hrs. I understand the mixing ratios but what are your thoughts on a concentrated bottle with carbs and sodium inside then consuming the water as a chaser ? Sip of carb, drink of water strategy. That way I can just pick up water at aid stations and minimise the amount of bottles to carry.
Really informative - thanks!! Do you think it's better to put sodium in a drink and then drink it over time? Or do you think taking capsules are ok? We used to buy the Hammer Endurolytes in the little tub with the tiny scoop, but they discontinued that and now only sell the caps; we switched to SaltStick because they claim to match what you sweat more exactly. SO opens the caps and dumps the content into his bottles; I admit that I don't take anything extra now that I don't live in the desert, but sounds like maybe I should add something to my Skratch in the summer.
In beverage is easiest and cheapest for sure. Tabs and caps tend to be pretty low sodium to get enough and very pricey. And it's easier to keep a steady flow going with in-beverage option.
Hi from Sweden. I really enjoy your content. Many doctors claim that high salt intake increases the risk for kidney stone. My father recieved this message from his Doctor and also two of my friends got the same news from their doctors. Thoughts? Thanks! Kind regards Imran
We probably shouldn't comment too much on health consequences and risks of pathology like kidney stone formation, and folks should generally listen to their MD's. That said, usually when folks are just replacing that which is being lost in sweat, there probably isn't risk of kidney stone formation. Otherwise, endurance athletes with high sodium intake would be one of the number one populations for kidney stone formation. Endurance athletes in hot environments often have the highest sodium consumption in the world. Further, there are lots of POTS sufferers with exceptionally high sodium needs, who also don't tend to show extraordinarily increased risk of kidney stones. Disclaimer: This is not medical advice and we are not medical doctors. Talk with your physician before implementing any changes in your diet. ;)
I feel like your content verges on myth busting because of how scientific and holistic it is towards nutrition and actual athlete limitations. I'd love to see a myth busters video on common misconceptions.
@@Saturday_ProFuel Cramping seems like a good one and perhaps the "fat burning" zone of exercise that I often hear people using as reason for not going too hard.
Thanks for providing good indications/ranges! You mentioned sodium citrate: What “salt mix”-ratio would you recommend? PS: Having talked about salt, how about baking soda? I find it very helpful for recovery and to some extent even as a pre-load before a HIIT session.
We'll do a video on baking soda! 80-20 sodium citrate to table salt, by grams of sodium from the product, is probably your best bet. You can do 100 sodium citrate for sure, but it doesn't hurt to have a little chloride.
@@Saturday_ProFuel I have received the sodium citrate by mail order. Did a first trial mix: 1 liter + 1/2tsp sodium citrate plus a pinch of sea salt. To my surprise, the water didn’t taste salty and was easy to drink during training!
Great video! how will you compare the use of sodium bicarbanoate vs sodium citrate for max performance? does it makes sense use bicarb as a pre-workout loading strategy (for the lactacte buffer benefits of bicarb) and use sodium citrate intra-workout in my bottles?
Thank you! Maybe a little. But the bicarb benefits are really slim and have a narrow use case, and it's dicey from a gut perspective. But, yes, if absolutely completely optimizing everything that strategy might be useful. The energy required to test it all out and get it dialed in, just right, might not be. But... placebo should also be considered and the more work you put into testing, the stronger your raceday placebo effect will be. No joke. Your brain matters a lot, so maybe there's your answer. :)
Loving this content as a triathlete who has just relied on mainstream supps... Maurten as of recent. Living in Hawaii I sweat a lot more, even as a normal sweater...but wondering what you'd recommend for non training or low sweat days?
For low-sweat days, anything with lower sodium content is great! (That's most products, by the way) We just pick one we like and customize with sugar usually though, because it keeps the flavor more mild and is usually more effective than whatever they're putting in it anyway. :)
@@Saturday_ProFuel thank you! Sorry I should have been a little more specific I guess I was just wondering how much sodium to aim for not even necessarily a supplement. I've been using your app and have considered dropping all supps altogether and just focusing on my sodium, carb, fluid numbers for both training and non days. Really appreciate you responding! Loving your videos, wish I had found them sooner
Omg… video I’ve been looking for. So….. what do you recommend in order to get this dialed in. I typically have been using skratch or liquid IV. Both of which have been OK… But I have been looking for something more economical and sustaining for my training. Any recommendations??
Training for my first marathon, I have myprotein electrolyte tablets but they are laughable low on sodium, 100mg and 300mg chloride / tablet. Should I consider that as 400mg sodium or chloride doesn't count, only sodium does? I can't find any sodium tablets and I'm not gonna carry water with me so I'm thinking about bringing like 10 candies (like gummy bears) and dip them in salt, don't know how else I can bring sodium with me. On the race itself I checked the aid stations, they provide something like 200mg sodium / Liter by 150ml cups (this is the electrolyte drink, which is not even at every station) so that is almost nothing. How would you carry salt with you? I can't find any gels that have more than 200mg sodium, most don't even have that. Found the channel today, great info!
Chloride doesn't count. :/ Anything with "protein" in the name probably shouldn't be used as endurance fuel. (it's always doing something silly like having very little sodium or including protein or some other silly thing) Check out our "How do I carry all this fuel" space! saturday.am/spaces/10317259/feed! Test tubes, baggies, gels, chews and other strategies all discussed!
Can you consume too much sodium? I consumed quite an excessieve amount of sodium citrate which I added to my sport drink and gels during an IM last week, at the end of the marathon (last 12 km) I felt a tingling sensation in my arms and face. After I crossed the finish that feeling worsened, and they hooked me to an IV which only seem to make the feeling worse, I'm not sure if the two are related.
The first result of too much sodium is usually GI distress. If you're getting tingling, absent GI issues, (diarrhea) it's likely something else. Stay in med tent until resolved for sure! Check supplements for beta alanine. Paresthesia (tingling) is a common side effect. Some companies are now putting it in workout fuel supplements. Totally harmless, but effects can be pronounced, and increasing hydration via IV could make that side effect more sudden and distinct by increasing rate of delivery to the tissues. Just spitballing here!
Wish I would have seen this years ago. Thanks! Big difference in dirt bike riding endurance, performance, fatigue. Honestly felt like I couldn’t get off the couch after rides. Now for a question. I’ve definitely found the GI limit for sodium intake. It sounds like you can get more sodium in with sodium citrate. But are there other ways to increase that gut limit? Do carbohydrates improve sodium absorption?
Carbohydrates do improve sodium absorption and hydration in general, but it only takes a tiny amount of carbs, to make the sodium go in. In an exercise scenario, the amount of carbs consumed should be driven by energy need (see the Carb Guide video) and not hydration/electrolyte/absorption optimization. It will always be in excess of what's optimal for water/sodium absorption.
I frequently get pronounced electrolyte symptoms especially bloating, cramping, numbness/tingling, and collapsed veins. I often get extremely bloated and sweat at least several lbs per hour. I consume several grams of sodium before working out, but I can never tell for sure if I have too much or too little sodium relative to water. My veins are normally pretty visible but often they almost disappear even if its hot weather when my electrolytes get out of balance. Often I overestimate how much sodium I need and get different symptoms such as rapid HR and heavier sweating. What are some good ways I can tell if my sodium concentration relative to water is too high or too low? Does extreme bloating usually mean high or low relative salt? What about numbness and/or collapsed veins?
If your veins are vanishing, usually that's a sign of dehydration, which means you need more water to offset sweat losses due to your high sweat rate. Rapid HR is another sign of dehydration. Probably need to drink more, but hard to say without knowing specific numbers here.
Sodium citrate is 27% (?) elemental sodium. For a 2L bottle that I'll drink over the course of 1.5H, I'd want to put in...1 teaspoon (~5700mg * 0.27) to get ~1500mg of actual sodium?
Thanks Alex for your great contributions! I have had a strange issue that is hard to reproduce. During Ultraman (3 day stage race triathlon) I have somehow managed to gain 12+ lbs of water weight by the time day 3 starts. About 4lbs during day 1 and double that on day 2. Very swollen, finger look like sausages. My hypothesis was too much sodium but what do you think? Intake was not particularly high (mainly Maurten about 500 calories per hour so 750mg sodium with that, and 1 x teaspoon of sea salt at some point in the day). Even the good folks at CU sports med were a bit perplexed. I had it to a lesser extent in a subsequent year using just skratch. I'll take any hypothesis! Getting to day 3 (52 mile run) at 6kg overweight is not ideal ;-)
@@Saturday_ProFuel no, I've never thought of taking blood to test. Hard to practically do that because it only happens in the race, never in training, and the race is in Hawaii with no blood lab location easily accessible. I think the most practical option may be to do a full 2 days race simulation somewhere near a lab. Hard to reproduce because it happens after 6+ hours of hard racing in the heat. Thanks for the tip, I'm going to try replicate it again and do the blood labs. 🙏
@@Saturday_ProFuel I happened to be able to create the problem today with a 200km indoor ride. Fingers swelled up and I managed to get a blood test. Sodium level was 135 mEq/L which seems ok but on the low side. Safe to assume I am not taking too much sodium?
@@RobGray777 seems a reasonable conclusion! depending on body weight changes, either need more sodium or less fluid or both. Also, we're not physicians and all guidance should be crosschecked with your physician. All testing should be carried out under the guidance of a physician. ;)
Definitely not. General guidelines do not assume long sweaty exercise sessions. It's common for folks living in Texas doing endurance sports to need up to 10,000-15,000 mg/day to not get dangerously dehydrated or hyponatremic! If you're in a cold climate and only exercising vigorously 2000 mg/day on average isn't necessary. :)
Hello, I am beginner in cycling. I was only using water in my bike ridings. I learned from Google I need electrolytes like sodium in over 2 hours bike ridings . How will ı know electrolytes İf ı took enough ? For example ı wanted to ride 5 hours . How Can I meet electrolytes need for 5 hours riding ? If ı cant meet electrolytes need for 5 hour riding , Can ı die ? İf you say advice from your experiences, I will be happy :)
Yes you can die from too little sodium paired with too much water, during exercise. Check out this frequently asked question: saturdaymorning.fit/science-faq-1/#:~:text=What%20are%20some%20signs%20that%20I%20don%E2%80%99t%20have%20enough%20sodium%20during%20training%3F
@@Saturday_ProFuel Thanks mate. Also Can you answer my other questions like : How will ı know electrolytes İf ı took enough ? For example ı wanted to ride 5 hours . How Can I meet electrolytes need for 5 hours riding ?
@@beratturkoglu3729 Perhaps we ought to make a video on that. :) TLDR: if you're feeling good, not experiencing cardiac drift, absorbing carbs comfortably, not swelling up in hands and feet, or peeing too much, you're probably getting enough sodium.
Good question. When we say gut tolerance we mean how much and how fast your gut can tolerate consuming things. If you consume anything more than what your gut can tolerate, you'll end up with gut cramps, nausea, diarrhea, etc. Did we answer your question or is there another way we can explain it better? Feel free to ask follow-ups, too.
@@Saturday_ProFuelSo back when I was training for a marathon I did some long slow runs of about 4 hours. I sweat out about 2 gallons but I could only drink about one gallon of a sports drink , so I ended up quite dehydrated. I guess that's my gut tolerance. One gallon per 2 hours
Yep, easier on the gut. Using sodium citrate in place of table salt allows your gut to tolerate more sodium consumption during training. Sodium citrate has 3 sodium molecules for every 1 citrate molecule. Sodium chloride has 1 sodium molecule for every 1 chloride molecule. That means that for the same amount of sodium consumption, there will be a greater number of molecules ingested, if using table salt, rather than sodium citrate. Osmolarity is the number of molecules per unit volume of solution. Our gastrointestinal tracts are sensitive to very high osmolarity solutions. During normal daily living, consumption of very high osmolar solutions (lots of molecules per liter) causes a laxative effect 20-60 minutes after consumption. During exercise, it causes gut cramping, THEN a laxative effect. :)
When you say 1500mg sodium, do you actually mean 1500 mg of Na or do you mean 1500mg of the entire molecule? This is quite a big difference. Also, I see quite some studies that claim positive results with 500-600mg/kg bw. This seems like an immense and unrealistic amount?
The 1500mg is Na and yes this can impact the measurement and how you prepare your bottles depending on the source (table salt vs sodium citrate for example). We also consider the amount of sodium in relation to the water intake rather than body weight, however, that amount seems like an error and far too much sodium for any practical use.
A lot of people have. It's unfortunate. The anti-water, anti-sodium movement was an unfortunate overreaction to the "hydrate hydrate hydrate" movement of the 1980's and 90's. That hydrate at all costs mentality was the overreaction to the "water makes you weak" mentality of the 1960's and 1970's. Now if we could just get everyone to take a balanced look at the literature...
Thanks for time to reply. I did use extra salt in drinks however all my clothes ended up covered in salt marks. I initially took the salt which I thought would help cramp which I always suffer on races over 20k. For me the salt didn’t seem to work as if I took it or not I still cramped. Trouble is I never cramp on training. Even on 30km fasted runs. Just race day. So I’m trying to work this conundrum out.
@@namits3775 thank you also, for your time taken to reply. Salt marks on clothes are okay. No worries there. You'll never sweat out more than you intake. Cramping in racing, but not training, is usually related to increased effort relative to ambient conditions. I'd still push for higher sodium concentration in your beverages. The first negative result will be GI distress. If that's not happening, it's worth exploring higher yet. Some folks need quite a bit to provide a cramp-protective effect.
I dont understand how much sosium citrate to add... If i want 2 grams sodium, how much sodium citrate do i use? IDK what % of sodium citrate is sodium If i try doing the math. ... Sodium citratr is C6 H5 Na3 O7 Atomic weights total 258, and na is 23 per, 69 per molecule.. thus sidium citrate is 27% sodium Nornal salt, NaCl is 40% sodium. So... To get 2 grams of sodium in a bottle id need to use 7.5gm sodium citrate, or 5gm salt. Wow. That's a lot of salt! Is this correct??? (I just looked at the app, and yeah it looks like my math is right. Wow, what loser said we'd never use highschool chemistry? I'm sure they don't use it though😅)
Yep your math in grams looks pretty much correct. Easier method might be to just use 1 tsp of sodium citrate to get about 1000-1200mg sodium. Most brands are in that ballpark. Some have as little as 940mg per tsp, and some as high as 1400mg/tsp. saturdaymorning.fit/resources-helpful-links has links to some companies that note how much sodium per teaspoon on amazon.
Note that sodium citrate is more stable when hydrated so will usually come with a dihydrate group instead of anhydrous. So if you dont like ball parking, that would be a 14% weight difference
Looking at most electrolyte products is crazy cause they always have such low sodium! I'd say 90% of them don't have adequate sodium. They sell one at Costco right now that doesnt even have any sodium at all! And I was just looking at biosteel electrolytes and it only has like 110mg per serving... Yawn.
Why don't you advocate for sweat testing so the athlete knows their concentration? You use concentration in all your calculations, why wouldn't I want to know MY concentration to better prepare my sodium intake?
Fantastic question. Because sweat concentration changes with intensity, hydration status, sodium consumption, temperature, humidity, (anything that affects sweat rate), training status, heat acclimation status. And there is very very little tradeoff in consuming slightly more sodium than is lost. So long as it is within gut limits. Basically you'd have to test all the time and it's pretty safe to just aim for the high end of what your gut can tolerate in every workout or race where it matters.
Fantastic video, thank you. The question though, if companies gels do not have the correct amount of sodium, how and what do we use? Normal table salt? Himalayan Salt in water? What do you recommend?
Check out this vid on that exact topic. th-cam.com/video/6NEEYH5GEC0/w-d-xo.html
Great videos. Working with a sports nutrition company, I can assure you there is no conspiracy to put less than needed nor to put less in due to cost. A factor is government RDA’s and therefore trying to adhere to guidelines, even when we know they’re long outdated. Linked to this are the subsequent challenges, when we then have to make a max dosage statement on the box. Just another perspective. As a business, full of athletes, we are trying very hard to provide the products which meet the needs. Outdated legislation is a barrier.
Really appreciate you mentioning this. Crummy policy leading to poor outcomes for the public. We are so surprised!! 😂😂 Are you able to share what company you're with?
Omg. Where was this video a year ago. You’ve pretty much nailed all of my issues. And here i was thinking having 300mg per litre per hour might be too much.
Definitely not too much! Glad you found the video!
JENN, THIS IS IT!
thank you for sharing!!!
Thanks for this video. You have helped me solve a problem that persisted for years. Endurance wise my head can go forever. I was limited by cramps. Discovering the power of sodium is awesome! Taking sodium earlier in the day also helped me with food cravings later in the day. My body needed sodium! Thanks again
Amazing!!
Amazing content! I have never heard sodium that way, great job you guys. Looking forward for more!
Thank you, Lomias!
Great content! Coming from your posts on Slowtwitch, your advocacy on increasing sodium intake helped me a lot with harder indoor sessions lasting a 3+ hours. I am a super salty sweater, and was getting a 'sloshy' feeling in my heart, consistently at 2.5hrs @ 270watts indoors. Ramped up the sodium intake during the ride, and I have pushed it out to 4 hours with no problems! You are quite possibly a lifesaver!
Yikes! Definitely see a cardiologist if you haven't already. Do whatever testing they recommend. Might be nothing! But better to know for sure. There are some great articles on slowtwitch on heart tests folks should do as they age.
This video has been very helpful for me! I unfortunately landed in the ER last September with hyponatremia due to working outside on a hot humid day. My PCP said my body “must be very good at filtering” since I wasn’t over-consuming water that day. We’ve been trialing a new electrolyte powder mix that has 600mg of sodium per serving, but I’m still having issues so going to start upping my consumption of sodium following this video and see how I fair. Thank you for making this!
Thanks for the feedback and we're really glad you found the video useful. During exercise, heavy sweaters can supplement with 800mg/l or even higher. It may be worth looking into sodium citrate as a source of sodium as this can be easier on the stomach and also it's much cheaper than buying electrolyte drinks especially if you're using it a lot. Let us know how it goes with the higher rate of sodium intake.
Check out the book The Salt Fix by James Denicolantonio . . I've been suffering from low sodium un my blood too for over a year now. Some days I consume like 4 or 5 teaspoon of salt.
I may have to check this out again. I have struggled with dehydration for years. Gave up on Gatorade a long time ago. The unflavored pedialyte worked far better than Gatorade. Finally found the Precision Hydration carbonated tabs. Now I can swim as long and as hard as I want without cramping issues during or after work outs. Hate waking up at night after rolling over and getting leg cramps. During a 1:45 swim, If I don't hydrate, I can drop 5 pounds. Construction days would be 10 pounds while drinking over a gallon of water and electrolytes. This science has come a long way.
It sure has! Let us know if you try our app or have any questions.
Well, after a bout with heat exhaustion that put me into the emergency room over night, I learned to pay very close attention to my hydration, and what I call water weight. I actually have it down for what I am doing. Thanks.
Loving the graphics and transitions!
Thank you!!
Recently did a 140km road race in very hot humid climate and cramped big time at the 90km mark and was spat out the back. I was drinking 108g carbs per hour + 800mg Na and 200mg P and as ref I weigh 71kg. I haven’t had many encounters with cramps but suspected 2 things 1/ I was possibly sweating more than 1L/hr as all my training prior I was avoiding the hottest parts of the day but this race had me out in the heat and 2/ In a race scenario I was possibly working harder than what I was doing in training. That all said I have never tried to pre-load my body with electrolytes so this is a great tip and 2 if I’m honest with myself I should have trained harder with more intervals as road racing is all about the surges 👍👍
Sounds like you might have benefited from more water and sodium for sure! And yeah, more training, so long as your body handles it okay, is always a good thing for cramp prevention. :)
Wow, exactly what I needed. I almost passed out yesterday on a short 3mile run, felt dizzy, saw spots & my blood pressure was extremely low and had to walk the last 1000m even the walk was a struggle I had to sit multiple times. Changed my diet to a whole food a week ago and so my salt levels were way down compared to eating out.
Bingo! Glad you sorted it out! Super common when folks make that kind of a diet switch.
Great stuff, as usual. A few things. Why are you not an advocate of sweat testing? That's how I have managed to dial in my sodium needs (1,425 mg of sodium per litre of sweat * 1-1.5 litres of sweat loss per hour, depending on conditions). Don't you need to know that sodium loss figure? Also, I liked your point about why companies don't have high sodium content in their products and the possible reasons you gave. Make sense. The few higher sodium products I've found are Precision Hydration (750 mg), ELMNT (1,000 per pack, but it's a very strong flavor so hard to double it up) and UCAN Hydrate (the highest concentration out there I believe.)
Finally, I'm listening to the Huberman Lab podcast about salt and sodium right now which is giving me an intro to how the kidneys work - in detail. Highly recommended.
Great question. Yes, kind of left intentionally blank because daily sodium intake probably doesn't matter nearly as much as sodium intake during training. And, when sodium intake rates matter during training, they're almost always approaching gut limits.
Here's a piece Dr. Alex wrote on sweat testing. www.triathlete.com/training/should-you-be-sweat-testing-lets-examine-the-trade-offs/ TLDR: sweat changes a lot for a lot of reasons, and it is often far less accurate than the sweat test might have you believe.
Another good couple high sodium products are probably The Right Stuff, and maybe Skratch Hydration if you use it concentrated!
I don't think it is mentioned in the video, but sodium loss per volume of sweat is NOT LINEAR. There are numerous research articles on it, but as sweat rate increases, so does the amount of sodium that comes out with it. The video is a reasonable simplification of sodium needs, and he covers well the gut tolerances being a limiting factor. But I would suppose that is why sweat testing wouldn't be super helpful unless you are going to test under multiple sweat rates.
My anecdotal experience is that sweat testing is telling you the wrong side of the story i.e it reflects how much sodium you've been consuming rather than how much you need. If I've been taking higher sodium, the sweat test shows higher sodium concentration, and if I've been consuming less sodium, the sweat test shows low sodium concentration. So at the end of the day it doesn't provide me with actionable data.
@@RobGray777 assuming that anecdotal evidence is correct (there's research to support either side of that argument), you would need to pair the testing with thermal measurements and controlled exercise in an equally controlled environment to see if there is an optimal salt intake for thermoregulation (the whole point of sweating in the first place). Then you would have actionable data :)
@@christopherrowley7601 it's in the video, but should have been a more strongly highlighted point!
Alex I took my BP this morning and it was 100/63 haha you spoke straight through the video to me! I also am very prone to cramping!
Haha glad it is useful to you!
You are a good teacher .
Thank you! 😃
Great stuff! Looking forward to the video in pre-loading💪🏻
Us too! Looking forward to digging into that literature
I love this channel!! So good!
Thanks Jason! 🙏🙏🙏
This is a helpful video. I am looking for your advanced strategies for preloading blood volume video but I cannot find it. Did you make one?
It's coming! We haven't published it yet.
@@Saturday_ProFuelI'm really looking forward to it!
Amazing info. Thank you!
You're very welcome!
so sounds like a good place start testing on self would be like 1200mg per liter. if I have a 5h ride and max amount of water I can bring is 3L would I add 3600mg (1200mgX3L) or would I do 6,000mg (1200mgX5hours)
Tough question. Probably somewhere in between, actually. Water limitations are rough. Carry more or stop for a fill up and you'll have a better time.
Great vid thank you!! Does various forms of sodium like sodium citrate, lower stomach acid levels significantly? Does it contribute to Hypochlorhydria?
Thanks again. Cheers.
It could, but the risk is much higher with sodium bicarb ingestion. Sodium citrate doesn't seem to have this effect in practice, especially since exercise tends to increase gut acid.
Great information and video! I always find I need to watch my sodium intake (big guy, heavy sweater, borderline high blood pressure[was on meds, lots weight and got off the meds]) and up my potassium to counter it. I do feel better over all and cramp a whole lot less (especially at night). Cheers !
Thank you! Congrats on the weight loss and BP management! Easier said than done.
Mega helpful, thanks 🙌👌
You're very welcome!
Love your content👌Any chances doing a vid on caffeine strategy/dosing ?
It's the next video up!
Thank you for this and all of your videos - always learning multiple things each time! I have the RP endurance book, but this format really compliments/helps put all the info there into context which then helps it stick in my brain :)
That's the goal! Happy we could help.
Great videos very informative, thank you.
I am doing training for ironman and trying to figure out how to carry my carbs and hydration on bike for 5-6hrs. I understand the mixing ratios but what are your thoughts on a concentrated bottle with carbs and sodium inside then consuming the water as a chaser ? Sip of carb, drink of water strategy. That way I can just pick up water at aid stations and minimise the amount of bottles to carry.
Good question, and great thinking. That's exactly what we recommend as a first approach to all our clients.
Thanks mate ... I will try it out over coming weeks.
Really informative - thanks!! Do you think it's better to put sodium in a drink and then drink it over time? Or do you think taking capsules are ok? We used to buy the Hammer Endurolytes in the little tub with the tiny scoop, but they discontinued that and now only sell the caps; we switched to SaltStick because they claim to match what you sweat more exactly. SO opens the caps and dumps the content into his bottles; I admit that I don't take anything extra now that I don't live in the desert, but sounds like maybe I should add something to my Skratch in the summer.
In beverage is easiest and cheapest for sure. Tabs and caps tend to be pretty low sodium to get enough and very pricey. And it's easier to keep a steady flow going with in-beverage option.
Hi from Sweden. I really enjoy your content. Many doctors claim that high salt intake increases the risk for kidney stone. My father recieved this message from his Doctor and also two of my friends got the same news from their doctors. Thoughts? Thanks!
Kind regards Imran
We probably shouldn't comment too much on health consequences and risks of pathology like kidney stone formation, and folks should generally listen to their MD's.
That said, usually when folks are just replacing that which is being lost in sweat, there probably isn't risk of kidney stone formation. Otherwise, endurance athletes with high sodium intake would be one of the number one populations for kidney stone formation. Endurance athletes in hot environments often have the highest sodium consumption in the world.
Further, there are lots of POTS sufferers with exceptionally high sodium needs, who also don't tend to show extraordinarily increased risk of kidney stones.
Disclaimer: This is not medical advice and we are not medical doctors. Talk with your physician before implementing any changes in your diet. ;)
@@Saturday_ProFuel Thanks for your answer! I appreciate it alot! 🙏 Kind regards
I feel like your content verges on myth busting because of how scientific and holistic it is towards nutrition and actual athlete limitations. I'd love to see a myth busters video on common misconceptions.
Much appreciated! We'll have to do an endurance nutrition myth busting series. Got any hot topics?
@@Saturday_ProFuel Cramping seems like a good one and perhaps the "fat burning" zone of exercise that I often hear people using as reason for not going too hard.
But let's be honest, you guys would know better than me. So I mostly look forward to your insights and revelations.
Thanks for providing good indications/ranges! You mentioned sodium citrate: What “salt mix”-ratio would you recommend?
PS: Having talked about salt, how about baking soda? I find it very helpful for recovery and to some extent even as a pre-load before a HIIT session.
We'll do a video on baking soda! 80-20 sodium citrate to table salt, by grams of sodium from the product, is probably your best bet. You can do 100 sodium citrate for sure, but it doesn't hurt to have a little chloride.
@@Saturday_ProFuel Thanks for your advice! Greatly appreciated.
If you should be planning to come to central Mexico, I’d be happy to return the favor.
@@Anza_34832 Sounds like an RV adventure waiting to happen!
@@Saturday_ProFuel Yeah, that will be fun! Central Mexico covers a large area. Look up San Miguel de Allende to get a first impression.
@@Saturday_ProFuel I have received the sodium citrate by mail order. Did a first trial mix: 1 liter + 1/2tsp sodium citrate plus a pinch of sea salt. To my surprise, the water didn’t taste salty and was easy to drink during training!
Great video! how will you compare the use of sodium bicarbanoate vs sodium citrate for max performance? does it makes sense use bicarb as a pre-workout loading strategy (for the lactacte buffer benefits of bicarb) and use sodium citrate intra-workout in my bottles?
Thank you! Maybe a little. But the bicarb benefits are really slim and have a narrow use case, and it's dicey from a gut perspective. But, yes, if absolutely completely optimizing everything that strategy might be useful. The energy required to test it all out and get it dialed in, just right, might not be. But... placebo should also be considered and the more work you put into testing, the stronger your raceday placebo effect will be. No joke. Your brain matters a lot, so maybe there's your answer. :)
Loving this content as a triathlete who has just relied on mainstream supps... Maurten as of recent. Living in Hawaii I sweat a lot more, even as a normal sweater...but wondering what you'd recommend for non training or low sweat days?
For low-sweat days, anything with lower sodium content is great! (That's most products, by the way) We just pick one we like and customize with sugar usually though, because it keeps the flavor more mild and is usually more effective than whatever they're putting in it anyway. :)
@@Saturday_ProFuel thank you! Sorry I should have been a little more specific I guess I was just wondering how much sodium to aim for not even necessarily a supplement. I've been using your app and have considered dropping all supps altogether and just focusing on my sodium, carb, fluid numbers for both training and non days. Really appreciate you responding! Loving your videos, wish I had found them sooner
Omg… video I’ve been looking for. So….. what do you recommend in order to get this dialed in. I typically have been using skratch or liquid IV. Both of which have been OK… But I have been looking for something more economical and sustaining for my training. Any recommendations??
Glad you found it! Use our app for sure. The whole purpose is to dial you in! PS. Sodium citrate for the win. :)
how to take sodium for swimmers ? do you salt your drink during training ? do you use regular (cooking ) sodium ?
Yes & yes! (or sodium citrate, if you like, but table salt is fine.)
Training for my first marathon, I have myprotein electrolyte tablets but they are laughable low on sodium, 100mg and 300mg chloride / tablet. Should I consider that as 400mg sodium or chloride doesn't count, only sodium does? I can't find any sodium tablets and I'm not gonna carry water with me so I'm thinking about bringing like 10 candies (like gummy bears) and dip them in salt, don't know how else I can bring sodium with me. On the race itself I checked the aid stations, they provide something like 200mg sodium / Liter by 150ml cups (this is the electrolyte drink, which is not even at every station) so that is almost nothing. How would you carry salt with you? I can't find any gels that have more than 200mg sodium, most don't even have that. Found the channel today, great info!
Chloride doesn't count. :/ Anything with "protein" in the name probably shouldn't be used as endurance fuel. (it's always doing something silly like having very little sodium or including protein or some other silly thing)
Check out our "How do I carry all this fuel" space! saturday.am/spaces/10317259/feed!
Test tubes, baggies, gels, chews and other strategies all discussed!
Can you consume too much sodium? I consumed quite an excessieve amount of sodium citrate which I added to my sport drink and gels during an IM last week, at the end of the marathon (last 12 km) I felt a tingling sensation in my arms and face. After I crossed the finish that feeling worsened, and they hooked me to an IV which only seem to make the feeling worse, I'm not sure if the two are related.
The first result of too much sodium is usually GI distress. If you're getting tingling, absent GI issues, (diarrhea) it's likely something else. Stay in med tent until resolved for sure!
Check supplements for beta alanine. Paresthesia (tingling) is a common side effect. Some companies are now putting it in workout fuel supplements. Totally harmless, but effects can be pronounced, and increasing hydration via IV could make that side effect more sudden and distinct by increasing rate of delivery to the tissues.
Just spitballing here!
Wish I would have seen this years ago. Thanks! Big difference in dirt bike riding endurance, performance, fatigue. Honestly felt like I couldn’t get off the couch after rides.
Now for a question. I’ve definitely found the GI limit for sodium intake. It sounds like you can get more sodium in with sodium citrate. But are there other ways to increase that gut limit? Do carbohydrates improve sodium absorption?
Carbohydrates do improve sodium absorption and hydration in general, but it only takes a tiny amount of carbs, to make the sodium go in. In an exercise scenario, the amount of carbs consumed should be driven by energy need (see the Carb Guide video) and not hydration/electrolyte/absorption optimization. It will always be in excess of what's optimal for water/sodium absorption.
@@Saturday_ProFuel Thanks!
I frequently get pronounced electrolyte symptoms especially bloating, cramping, numbness/tingling, and collapsed veins. I often get extremely bloated and sweat at least several lbs per hour. I consume several grams of sodium before working out, but I can never tell for sure if I have too much or too little sodium relative to water. My veins are normally pretty visible but often they almost disappear even if its hot weather when my electrolytes get out of balance. Often I overestimate how much sodium I need and get different symptoms such as rapid HR and heavier sweating.
What are some good ways I can tell if my sodium concentration relative to water is too high or too low?
Does extreme bloating usually mean high or low relative salt?
What about numbness and/or collapsed veins?
If your veins are vanishing, usually that's a sign of dehydration, which means you need more water to offset sweat losses due to your high sweat rate.
Rapid HR is another sign of dehydration. Probably need to drink more, but hard to say without knowing specific numbers here.
Sodium citrate is 27% (?) elemental sodium. For a 2L bottle that I'll drink over the course of 1.5H, I'd want to put in...1 teaspoon (~5700mg * 0.27) to get ~1500mg of actual sodium?
Correct! Usually just slightly more than 1tsp for 1500mg, depending on the product's coarse vs. fine granulation.
Wow . Lately ive been worried that i dont pee much during long rides. I didnt have any idea that it might actually be a good thing
Peeing a little is great. Peeing frequently usually means not enough sodium! Not peeing at all usually means not enough water. :) Dial it in!
Thanks Alex for your great contributions! I have had a strange issue that is hard to reproduce. During Ultraman (3 day stage race triathlon) I have somehow managed to gain 12+ lbs of water weight by the time day 3 starts. About 4lbs during day 1 and double that on day 2. Very swollen, finger look like sausages. My hypothesis was too much sodium but what do you think? Intake was not particularly high (mainly Maurten about 500 calories per hour so 750mg sodium with that, and 1 x teaspoon of sea salt at some point in the day). Even the good folks at CU sports med were a bit perplexed. I had it to a lesser extent in a subsequent year using just skratch. I'll take any hypothesis! Getting to day 3 (52 mile run) at 6kg overweight is not ideal ;-)
Holy smokes. Definitely worth testing blood sodium levels while you're experiencing those symptoms. Have you had that done?
@@Saturday_ProFuel no, I've never thought of taking blood to test. Hard to practically do that because it only happens in the race, never in training, and the race is in Hawaii with no blood lab location easily accessible. I think the most practical option may be to do a full 2 days race simulation somewhere near a lab. Hard to reproduce because it happens after 6+ hours of hard racing in the heat. Thanks for the tip, I'm going to try replicate it again and do the blood labs. 🙏
@@RobGray777 in the presence of an MD and medical facilities preferably!!
@@Saturday_ProFuel I happened to be able to create the problem today with a 200km indoor ride. Fingers swelled up and I managed to get a blood test. Sodium level was 135 mEq/L which seems ok but on the low side. Safe to assume I am not taking too much sodium?
@@RobGray777 seems a reasonable conclusion! depending on body weight changes, either need more sodium or less fluid or both. Also, we're not physicians and all guidance should be crosschecked with your physician. All testing should be carried out under the guidance of a physician. ;)
General guidelines are for adults to consume less than 2,300 mg per day. Is what you are recommending a health risk?
Definitely not. General guidelines do not assume long sweaty exercise sessions. It's common for folks living in Texas doing endurance sports to need up to 10,000-15,000 mg/day to not get dangerously dehydrated or hyponatremic! If you're in a cold climate and only exercising vigorously 2000 mg/day on average isn't necessary. :)
Hello,
I am beginner in cycling. I was only using water in my bike ridings. I learned from Google I need electrolytes like sodium in over 2 hours bike ridings . How will ı know electrolytes İf ı took enough ? For example ı wanted to ride 5 hours . How Can I meet electrolytes need for 5 hours riding ? If ı cant meet electrolytes need for 5 hour riding , Can ı die ? İf you say advice from your experiences, I will be happy :)
Yes you can die from too little sodium paired with too much water, during exercise. Check out this frequently asked question: saturdaymorning.fit/science-faq-1/#:~:text=What%20are%20some%20signs%20that%20I%20don%E2%80%99t%20have%20enough%20sodium%20during%20training%3F
@@Saturday_ProFuel Thanks mate. Also Can you answer my other questions like : How will ı know electrolytes İf ı took enough ? For example ı wanted to ride 5 hours . How Can I meet electrolytes need for 5 hours riding ?
@@beratturkoglu3729 Perhaps we ought to make a video on that. :) TLDR: if you're feeling good, not experiencing cardiac drift, absorbing carbs comfortably, not swelling up in hands and feet, or peeing too much, you're probably getting enough sodium.
Could you please explain exactly what you mean by gut tolerance?
Good question. When we say gut tolerance we mean how much and how fast your gut can tolerate consuming things. If you consume anything more than what your gut can tolerate, you'll end up with gut cramps, nausea, diarrhea, etc. Did we answer your question or is there another way we can explain it better? Feel free to ask follow-ups, too.
@@Saturday_ProFuelSo back when I was training for a marathon I did some long slow runs of about 4 hours. I sweat out about 2 gallons but I could only drink about one gallon of a sports drink , so I ended up quite dehydrated. I guess that's my gut tolerance. One gallon per 2 hours
Sodium citrate is better?
Yep, easier on the gut. Using sodium citrate in place of table salt allows your gut to tolerate more sodium consumption during training. Sodium citrate has 3 sodium molecules for every 1 citrate molecule. Sodium chloride has 1 sodium molecule for every 1 chloride molecule. That means that for the same amount of sodium consumption, there will be a greater number of molecules ingested, if using table salt, rather than sodium citrate. Osmolarity is the number of molecules per unit volume of solution. Our gastrointestinal tracts are sensitive to very high osmolarity solutions. During normal daily living, consumption of very high osmolar solutions (lots of molecules per liter) causes a laxative effect 20-60 minutes after consumption. During exercise, it causes gut cramping, THEN a laxative effect. :)
When you say 1500mg sodium, do you actually mean 1500 mg of Na or do you mean 1500mg of the entire molecule? This is quite a big difference.
Also, I see quite some studies that claim positive results with 500-600mg/kg bw. This seems like an immense and unrealistic amount?
The 1500mg is Na and yes this can impact the measurement and how you prepare your bottles depending on the source (table salt vs sodium citrate for example). We also consider the amount of sodium in relation to the water intake rather than body weight, however, that amount seems like an error and far too much sodium for any practical use.
I stopped using extra salt in runs since reading Waterlogged by Tim Noakes
A lot of people have. It's unfortunate. The anti-water, anti-sodium movement was an unfortunate overreaction to the "hydrate hydrate hydrate" movement of the 1980's and 90's. That hydrate at all costs mentality was the overreaction to the "water makes you weak" mentality of the 1960's and 1970's.
Now if we could just get everyone to take a balanced look at the literature...
Thanks for time to reply. I did use extra salt in drinks however all my clothes ended up covered in salt marks. I initially took the salt which I thought would help cramp which I always suffer on races over 20k. For me the salt didn’t seem to work as if I took it or not I still cramped. Trouble is I never cramp on training. Even on 30km fasted runs. Just race day. So I’m trying to work this conundrum out.
@@namits3775 thank you also, for your time taken to reply. Salt marks on clothes are okay. No worries there. You'll never sweat out more than you intake. Cramping in racing, but not training, is usually related to increased effort relative to ambient conditions. I'd still push for higher sodium concentration in your beverages. The first negative result will be GI distress. If that's not happening, it's worth exploring higher yet. Some folks need quite a bit to provide a cramp-protective effect.
@@Saturday_ProFuel thank you again. Done. I’ll try some salt drinks
I dont understand how much sosium citrate to add... If i want 2 grams sodium, how much sodium citrate do i use? IDK what % of sodium citrate is sodium
If i try doing the math. ... Sodium citratr is C6 H5 Na3 O7
Atomic weights total 258, and na is 23 per, 69 per molecule.. thus sidium citrate is 27% sodium
Nornal salt, NaCl is 40% sodium.
So... To get 2 grams of sodium in a bottle id need to use 7.5gm sodium citrate, or 5gm salt. Wow. That's a lot of salt!
Is this correct??? (I just looked at the app, and yeah it looks like my math is right. Wow, what loser said we'd never use highschool chemistry? I'm sure they don't use it though😅)
Yep your math in grams looks pretty much correct. Easier method might be to just use 1 tsp of sodium citrate to get about 1000-1200mg sodium. Most brands are in that ballpark. Some have as little as 940mg per tsp, and some as high as 1400mg/tsp. saturdaymorning.fit/resources-helpful-links has links to some companies that note how much sodium per teaspoon on amazon.
Note that sodium citrate is more stable when hydrated so will usually come with a dihydrate group instead of anhydrous. So if you dont like ball parking, that would be a 14% weight difference
Looking at most electrolyte products is crazy cause they always have such low sodium! I'd say 90% of them don't have adequate sodium. They sell one at Costco right now that doesnt even have any sodium at all! And I was just looking at biosteel electrolytes and it only has like 110mg per serving... Yawn.
Yuppp. -_-
Why don't you advocate for sweat testing so the athlete knows their concentration? You use concentration in all your calculations, why wouldn't I want to know MY concentration to better prepare my sodium intake?
Fantastic question. Because sweat concentration changes with intensity, hydration status, sodium consumption, temperature, humidity, (anything that affects sweat rate), training status, heat acclimation status. And there is very very little tradeoff in consuming slightly more sodium than is lost. So long as it is within gut limits. Basically you'd have to test all the time and it's pretty safe to just aim for the high end of what your gut can tolerate in every workout or race where it matters.
What is ’gut tolerance’? You puke or what?
Usually the other end, first. :) (and before that, gut cramps.)