Glad you touched on the trade off of sleep vs benefits from caffeine. I personally have shifted towards more sleep and less caffeine. Very tough to balance to fascinating things! I’m also not an endurance athlete so maybe I’d reconsider if I were.
Great info! I don’t think I’ve ever actually tried training or racing with caffeine. I do enjoy some caffeinated beverages (not coffee, never liked it) but once I get to the point of needing it more than once a day, I stop, to break the hold it has on me, so that I can get back to better recovery sleep. Cheers !
Interesting presentation, thank you. You didn't mention paradoxical reactions to caffeine, or caffeine sensitive responders. Also, you didn't mention caffeine-induced psychosis. All 3 of those are outliers, I know, but I've seen them quite a bit in my clinical psychology work, especially on combat deployment. I only note this as your presentation was very solid, and a bit of coverage on the outliers might be helpful to some. Thanks again.
Very interesting. First time I've heard it recommended to start off with a mega caffeine boost like that, and then do smaller refills after that. Will experiment with this. Speaking of the caf intake "during" longer session, what's your position on continuously sipping on drink mixes with caf vs. taking the caf as more of a 'shot' through pills or gels once every hour? Thanks
As someone who has zero caffeine intake regularly, I've wondered how to even test caffeine usage without building up a tolerance. I figure I should try it out at least once before a race ("nothing new on race day"), so I suppose I should try one of these lower-end amounts for a group ride sometime. Also, I noted a wardrobe change for the end segment!
Thankfully, the caffeine tolerance build-up has as much to do with lost sleep as regular use of caffeine. The effects on metabolism remain pretty static. Effects on psychology are affected more by sleep than anything else, and any tolerance from repeat dosing can be reduced substantially by taking a day or two off of caffeine use. Recommendation: sleep plenty, use caffeine intermittently.
6mg/kg in one dose??! it gives 450mg for a grown person (75kg) !! I feel shaky after taking 200mg (that's why I take 100mg in one dose), and I drink A LOT of coffee during a day :)
Dr. Alex here. I only say the following as one giant 'FYI' and academic discussion, rather than trying to convince you to change anything! I have found that my nausea and jitteriness following higher caffeine doses came as a result of delayed eating and increased physical activity and energy, caused by caffeine (appetite suppression, mood enhancement, and increased physical vigorousness are all caused by caffeine consumption)... all of which caused a rebound hypoglycemia which I could only achieve in the presence of higher caffeine dosing because I would inadvertently delay intra-workout fueling. Since mandating more regular intra-workout fueling strategies as standard practice for myself, I have experienced zero of those formerly caffeine-associated symptoms. I remember them well however! Not fun. Further, if you're experiencing any anxiety, consuming food with the caffeine can also blunt that response too. Theanine can also be taken with caffeine to take down the 'edge' feeling. (Supposedly, and anecdotally our experience matches the emerging research here.) Boatload of info on hypoglycemia I've shared elsewhere below, in case it's handy. Common symptoms of mild/moderate hypoglycemia: 1. Fatigue/exhaustion 2. Inability to complete routine exercises/tasks 3. Intense Hunger 4. Nausea or stomach discomfort/pain 5. Shakiness 6. Lightheadedness 7. Weakness 8. Sweating 9. Irritability 10. Tingling sensation around mouth, feet, or hands. 11. Generally feeling like you’re dying (maybe that’s just me??) Common causes of hypoglycemia: 1. Rebound hypoglycemia, ie. blood sugar crash. Most commonly recognized in children after they eat candy, run around like crazy and then start wailing. Ironically, the same thing happens in adults, we just (usually) don’t cry about it. The surest way to induce rebound hypoglycemia would be to consume a high glycemic index meal 40-70 minutes prior to exercise, and NOT consume any high glycemic index foods during exercise. Even in cases of more moderate or low glycemic index food consumption in that time window before exercise, rebound hypoglycemia is remarkably common. Another common way to create rebound hypoglycemia is to either consume too little intra-workout carbs during a portion of training, or to delay post-workout carbohydrate consumption by more than 10-15 minutes especially if intra-workout carbohydrate consumption was on the lower end of the spectrum for the work output or duration of exercise. 2. Intense exercise in the absence of carbohydrate or minimal carbohydrate. Work out for long enough or hard enough, without sufficient carbs, and you’ll surely begin to experience mild hypoglycemia. 3. Prolonged period of no food consumption. Don’t eat for 12 hours, and you’re likely to experience some level of hypoglycemia as your body works hard to run in a low carb environment. How to prevent it: 1. Don’t eat 31-75 minutes prior to exercise. 2. If you must eat in that dreaded window, be sure it’s a balanced meal, low in fat, AND ensure that you have intra-workout carbs during your workout and are actively drinking them IMMEDIATELY from the onset of exercise or even just before you start, and throughout the entire workout. 3. If you need to eat closer than 90 minutes to your training, try to do it 10-20 minutes before training, and make it something very easily digestible (like intra-workout carbs) so that it’s not sitting in your gut doing nothing while you train. 4. Ideally, eat ~2 hours prior to training. The more complex the meal is, with more fat and more fiber, the longer before training is advisable. 5. In cases of workouts lasting 75 minutes or more, you MUST have intra-workout carbohydrates, or you’ll surely risk the onset of at least mild hypoglycemia by the end of your training session. How to FIX it, if it happens: 1. If you’re in middle of workout, drink 10-50g of carbs depending on how much you have left, and how far behind you are on your “scheduled consumption” assuming the target was to drink steadily until the end of the workout, at which point, you’d be out of intra-workout carbs. 2. If you’re not training, reduce activity level (sit) if possible. Drink 4-12oz water, depending on thirst, and consider moving all or part of the next meal’s healthy carbs to right now. Wait 20 minutes. If it persists intensely, consider adding 20g more healthy carbs, or moderate-moderately high GI carbs like banana, melon, mango, white rice, skim milk, most breads.
Great video!!! Questions. -If I stop taking caffeine on a long race before the end, will I experience excessive fatigue? Meaning once I start caffeine do I have to continue? -you said for a race day up to 6mg/kg. I’m slow we’re talking 14hr IM. If I’m about 70kg, my max would be 420mg, minus 300mg pre workout only leaves 120 for next 14 hours. Even at 0.5mg/kg that only gets me another 3-4hours. So is the max increased for long races? What would your recommendation be? Thanks!
No. But that's a common thought! It comes from: people consume caffeine and then they stop consuming carbs and getting hypoglycemic. Folks stop consuming their fuel and power on, because caffeine is a cognitive drive enhancer, and appetite suppressant, so folks forget to eat and drink if they're not disciplined. :) Generally, consume all your needed caffeine before about 2 hours before race-end. Definitely don't save any for the last hour. Get all of it in by no later than 60 minutes from the finish, but earlier is almost always better.
Great information! How would adding l-theanine with caffeine impact performance or cognition? Would l-theanine impact caffeine's influence on hunger? If you work out in the afternoon and enjoy morning coffee, how should one factor in the day's earlier doses?
Caffeine doses mentioned in this video are pre-workout doses. Caffeine half-life ≅ 6 hrs. If morning caffeine was 6 hrs earlier, then count half of it towards your pre-workout dose. l-theanine might be useful but limited research on that combo with caffeine in endurance athletes.
So unless I missed the question is how long does it take caffeine to metabolize? Is a 220 lb athlete if I take 300 mg before my training how long before bedtime should that be
Caffeine half-life is about 5-6 hours at rest, on average, but it can be double that or half that depending on the person and their genetics and a host of other factors. During exercise though, the duration of caffeine metabolism can be halved. As in, it gets used up twice as fast. You'll have to go by feel here, but generally, use less and less caffeine as the day goes on. If you're training in the evening, it's wise to use the bare minimum dose, and it's probably almost never a good idea to take it after 6pm. The sign to look out for is "Can I fall asleep?" For lots of people, to be able to fall asleep around 10pm requires last caffeine dose to be before 2pm or even noon.
Caffeine tolerance is more related to any sleep loss you incur. The fact is: caffeine works, whether you've been taking it or not. You'll just FEEL it more if you haven't been taking it very much. There is no need to resensitize to it by using less, unless you're losing sleep because it's preventing you from getting 8-9 hours/night of sleep.
another thing.... caffeine is diuretic, once I was taking it during gran fondo (around 6h), and I was overtaking the same riders like 6-7 times.... I had to stop for a pee every 30 minutes, which canceled all gains from caffeine ... 🤣
Caffeine-induced diuresis is not linearly associated with the dose. It turns out, whether you consume 100mg, or 500mg, the diuresis is almost identical. The reason we experience more diuresis with more caffeine is because most beverages that have caffeine are low sodium. It's the fluid intake, absent sodium, that causes us to produce urine at a higher rate. If you're experiencing frequent urination during an event, chances are, you need more sodium. Probably a substantial amount more.
Has anyone found it harder to reach higher heart rates when cutting back on caffeine? Have you noticed that during caffeine withdrawal your resting heart rate can drop a lot below normal? Normally my resting heart rate is 55-65 but I have seen mine drop below 50 often and even under 40 sometimes when cutting down, and profound fatigue.
Yes, yes, and yes. Sounds like you've got a wee bit of a caffeine tolerance built up and probably some sleep debt. Need more sleep for sure. Google sleep hygiene and become expert at it if you struggle to sleep.
@@Saturday_ProFuel Do you know why nobody ever mentions low heart rate as a symptom of withdrawal, especially doctors? People always look at me very strange when I mention low heart rate even though its so obvious to me. I had to look up research papers on effects of Adenosine to find out that it actually suppresses heart rate and cardiac output. Sleep also greatly intensifies withdrawal for the same reason because it raises Adenosine even more.
Yes.... and no. It's a little less black and white than that. Do you have specific concerns around what might happen if it was causing vasoconstriction?
Glad you touched on the trade off of sleep vs benefits from caffeine. I personally have shifted towards more sleep and less caffeine. Very tough to balance to fascinating things! I’m also not an endurance athlete so maybe I’d reconsider if I were.
I'm sure you're better at running and riding than you're giving yourself credit for!
Great info! I don’t think I’ve ever actually tried training or racing with caffeine. I do enjoy some caffeinated beverages (not coffee, never liked it) but once I get to the point of needing it more than once a day, I stop, to break the hold it has on me, so that I can get back to better recovery sleep. Cheers !
Solid strategy. Let us know how trying it out goes for you!
Brilliant. Thanks for this insight, it all sounds right to me.
Thank you! 👊
Interesting presentation, thank you. You didn't mention paradoxical reactions to caffeine, or caffeine sensitive responders. Also, you didn't mention caffeine-induced psychosis. All 3 of those are outliers, I know, but I've seen them quite a bit in my clinical psychology work, especially on combat deployment. I only note this as your presentation was very solid, and a bit of coverage on the outliers might be helpful to some. Thanks again.
Definitely interesting points, but seems outside the purpose of the video.
We SO appreciate you both being here. Probably more degrees between the two of you than either of us can count to.
Excellent video! Can this be added to the app so we can use it in the fuel prep?
It will be. We're closing a funding round in a couple weeks and feature dev should move faster. :)
Very interesting. First time I've heard it recommended to start off with a mega caffeine boost like that, and then do smaller refills after that. Will experiment with this. Speaking of the caf intake "during" longer session, what's your position on continuously sipping on drink mixes with caf vs. taking the caf as more of a 'shot' through pills or gels once every hour? Thanks
Sipping is optimal. Relatively frequent 'shots' are fine too. Super long gaps between dosing could result in fluctuating energy levels.
As someone who has zero caffeine intake regularly, I've wondered how to even test caffeine usage without building up a tolerance. I figure I should try it out at least once before a race ("nothing new on race day"), so I suppose I should try one of these lower-end amounts for a group ride sometime. Also, I noted a wardrobe change for the end segment!
Thankfully, the caffeine tolerance build-up has as much to do with lost sleep as regular use of caffeine. The effects on metabolism remain pretty static. Effects on psychology are affected more by sleep than anything else, and any tolerance from repeat dosing can be reduced substantially by taking a day or two off of caffeine use. Recommendation: sleep plenty, use caffeine intermittently.
6mg/kg in one dose??! it gives 450mg for a grown person (75kg) !! I feel shaky after taking 200mg (that's why I take 100mg in one dose), and I drink A LOT of coffee during a day :)
Dr. Alex here. I only say the following as one giant 'FYI' and academic discussion, rather than trying to convince you to change anything!
I have found that my nausea and jitteriness following higher caffeine doses came as a result of delayed eating and increased physical activity and energy, caused by caffeine (appetite suppression, mood enhancement, and increased physical vigorousness are all caused by caffeine consumption)... all of which caused a rebound hypoglycemia which I could only achieve in the presence of higher caffeine dosing because I would inadvertently delay intra-workout fueling. Since mandating more regular intra-workout fueling strategies as standard practice for myself, I have experienced zero of those formerly caffeine-associated symptoms. I remember them well however! Not fun. Further, if you're experiencing any anxiety, consuming food with the caffeine can also blunt that response too.
Theanine can also be taken with caffeine to take down the 'edge' feeling. (Supposedly, and anecdotally our experience matches the emerging research here.)
Boatload of info on hypoglycemia I've shared elsewhere below, in case it's handy.
Common symptoms of mild/moderate hypoglycemia:
1. Fatigue/exhaustion
2. Inability to complete routine exercises/tasks
3. Intense Hunger
4. Nausea or stomach discomfort/pain
5. Shakiness
6. Lightheadedness
7. Weakness
8. Sweating
9. Irritability
10. Tingling sensation around mouth, feet, or hands.
11. Generally feeling like you’re dying (maybe that’s just me??)
Common causes of hypoglycemia:
1. Rebound hypoglycemia, ie. blood sugar crash. Most commonly recognized in children after they eat candy, run around like crazy and then start wailing. Ironically, the same thing happens in adults, we just (usually) don’t cry about it. The surest way to induce rebound hypoglycemia would be to consume a high glycemic index meal 40-70 minutes prior to exercise, and NOT consume any high glycemic index foods during exercise. Even in cases of more moderate or low glycemic index food consumption in that time window before exercise, rebound hypoglycemia is remarkably common. Another common way to create rebound hypoglycemia is to either consume too little intra-workout carbs during a portion of training, or to delay post-workout carbohydrate consumption by more than 10-15 minutes especially if intra-workout carbohydrate consumption was on the lower end of the spectrum for the work output or duration of exercise.
2. Intense exercise in the absence of carbohydrate or minimal carbohydrate. Work out for long enough or hard enough, without sufficient carbs, and you’ll surely begin to experience mild hypoglycemia.
3. Prolonged period of no food consumption. Don’t eat for 12 hours, and you’re likely to experience some level of hypoglycemia as your body works hard to run in a low carb environment.
How to prevent it:
1. Don’t eat 31-75 minutes prior to exercise.
2. If you must eat in that dreaded window, be sure it’s a balanced meal, low in fat, AND ensure that you have intra-workout carbs during your workout and are actively drinking them IMMEDIATELY from the onset of exercise or even just before you start, and throughout the entire workout.
3. If you need to eat closer than 90 minutes to your training, try to do it 10-20 minutes before training, and make it something very easily digestible (like intra-workout carbs) so that it’s not sitting in your gut doing nothing while you train.
4. Ideally, eat ~2 hours prior to training. The more complex the meal is, with more fat and more fiber, the longer before training is advisable.
5. In cases of workouts lasting 75 minutes or more, you MUST have intra-workout carbohydrates, or you’ll surely risk the onset of at least mild hypoglycemia by the end of your training session.
How to FIX it, if it happens:
1. If you’re in middle of workout, drink 10-50g of carbs depending on how much you have left, and how far behind you are on your “scheduled consumption” assuming the target was to drink steadily until the end of the workout, at which point, you’d be out of intra-workout carbs.
2. If you’re not training, reduce activity level (sit) if possible. Drink 4-12oz water, depending on thirst, and consider moving all or part of the next meal’s healthy carbs to right now. Wait 20 minutes. If it persists intensely, consider adding 20g more healthy carbs, or moderate-moderately high GI carbs like banana, melon, mango, white rice, skim milk, most breads.
Great video!!! Questions.
-If I stop taking caffeine on a long race before the end, will I experience excessive fatigue? Meaning once I start caffeine do I have to continue?
-you said for a race day up to 6mg/kg. I’m slow we’re talking 14hr IM. If I’m about 70kg, my max would be 420mg, minus 300mg pre workout only leaves 120 for next 14 hours. Even at 0.5mg/kg that only gets me another 3-4hours. So is the max increased for long races? What would your recommendation be? Thanks!
No. But that's a common thought! It comes from: people consume caffeine and then they stop consuming carbs and getting hypoglycemic. Folks stop consuming their fuel and power on, because caffeine is a cognitive drive enhancer, and appetite suppressant, so folks forget to eat and drink if they're not disciplined. :)
Generally, consume all your needed caffeine before about 2 hours before race-end. Definitely don't save any for the last hour. Get all of it in by no later than 60 minutes from the finish, but earlier is almost always better.
Great information! How would adding l-theanine with caffeine impact performance or cognition? Would l-theanine impact caffeine's influence on hunger? If you work out in the afternoon and enjoy morning coffee, how should one factor in the day's earlier doses?
Caffeine doses mentioned in this video are pre-workout doses. Caffeine half-life ≅ 6 hrs. If morning caffeine was 6 hrs earlier, then count half of it towards your pre-workout dose.
l-theanine might be useful but limited research on that combo with caffeine in endurance athletes.
So unless I missed the question is how long does it take caffeine to metabolize? Is a 220 lb athlete if I take 300 mg before my training how long before bedtime should that be
Caffeine quarter life is really long. It's recommended to only use before 12am and at latest before 3pm. So any after work activity no caffeine ever.
Caffeine half-life is about 5-6 hours at rest, on average, but it can be double that or half that depending on the person and their genetics and a host of other factors. During exercise though, the duration of caffeine metabolism can be halved. As in, it gets used up twice as fast. You'll have to go by feel here, but generally, use less and less caffeine as the day goes on. If you're training in the evening, it's wise to use the bare minimum dose, and it's probably almost never a good idea to take it after 6pm. The sign to look out for is "Can I fall asleep?"
For lots of people, to be able to fall asleep around 10pm requires last caffeine dose to be before 2pm or even noon.
How fast do you build up caffeine tolerance? And how fast can you deload it?
Caffeine tolerance is more related to any sleep loss you incur. The fact is: caffeine works, whether you've been taking it or not. You'll just FEEL it more if you haven't been taking it very much. There is no need to resensitize to it by using less, unless you're losing sleep because it's preventing you from getting 8-9 hours/night of sleep.
another thing.... caffeine is diuretic, once I was taking it during gran fondo (around 6h), and I was overtaking the same riders like 6-7 times....
I had to stop for a pee every 30 minutes, which canceled all gains from caffeine ... 🤣
Caffeine-induced diuresis is not linearly associated with the dose. It turns out, whether you consume 100mg, or 500mg, the diuresis is almost identical. The reason we experience more diuresis with more caffeine is because most beverages that have caffeine are low sodium. It's the fluid intake, absent sodium, that causes us to produce urine at a higher rate. If you're experiencing frequent urination during an event, chances are, you need more sodium. Probably a substantial amount more.
Has anyone found it harder to reach higher heart rates when cutting back on caffeine?
Have you noticed that during caffeine withdrawal your resting heart rate can drop a lot below normal?
Normally my resting heart rate is 55-65 but I have seen mine drop below 50 often and even under 40 sometimes when cutting down, and profound fatigue.
Yes, yes, and yes. Sounds like you've got a wee bit of a caffeine tolerance built up and probably some sleep debt. Need more sleep for sure. Google sleep hygiene and become expert at it if you struggle to sleep.
@@Saturday_ProFuel
Do you know why nobody ever mentions low heart rate as a symptom of withdrawal, especially doctors?
People always look at me very strange when I mention low heart rate even though its so obvious to me. I had to look up research papers on effects of Adenosine to find out that it actually suppresses heart rate and cardiac output. Sleep also greatly intensifies withdrawal for the same reason because it raises Adenosine even more.
Isn't caffine a vaso restrictor?
Yes.... and no. It's a little less black and white than that. Do you have specific concerns around what might happen if it was causing vasoconstriction?
👍
👊
In which state do you live?? Beautiful there
All of them, west of the Mississipi River, in the good 'ol US of A. (Check out our RV video.)