I always look forward to your content. A battle report featuring White Scars has me even more stoked than usual, though. Salamanders are always talked about as the nice guys, but the White Scars always seemed the most likable to me. Plus, of course, VROOOOOOOOOMM!
As a Scars player, my main issue is that yeah, the bikes are really squishy and easy to clear. Especially given HH is WYSIWYG style terrain, shooting armies just have a massive advantage if the terrain you use does not fully block LOS. Also, I think you might have forgotten that Golden Keshig have heavy, meaning the 5+ shrouded they get from running is inapplicable given they can't run in the first place. My experience with GK is anything ap2 just melts them, so really they don't do that much unless they are not shot at at all. Personally, whilst I am looking to try and play a mechanised/jumppack assault company style army (without using Sagyar cause my army's lore is not sagyar), I feel whilst the legion's rule of +1 movement is strong, there is a glaring weakness in that we do not have strong buffs to our damage, which means we are relying purely on standard stock profiles. Whilst I am not saying that this makes Scars bad etc, my personal experience in a more min-maxy kind of community is that it is very easy to outclass the Scars. Siege of Cthonia rules has definitely helped us out by making it scoring focused, which works really well with both of our ROWs.
Yeah jetbikes never benefiting for cover saves is also another downside. Something like Battle Hardened would stop the instant death, with shroud or an apothecary fnp they would have some much needed staying power. Atm there is little point spending the money on apothecaries for small jetbike squads. I didn't realise Golden Keshig were Heavy.... Seems a strange, but not surprising, clash of rules... Will have to dig deeper there. Getting jink back wouldn't be the end of the world either, cause it basically made you useless in shooting in the next round anyway.
Also the lance rule says, that they work only on SUCCESFULL charges. A reaction makes the charge disordered, denies the use of the lances... so more or less poor written rules, if this wasnt intended.
I think the huge weakness of Cavalry of all types, and especially Golden Keshigs, is the complete lack of Invuln saves, for units that begin with 3 models. When a las cannon squad catches LoS of you, you get wiped. So Born to the Saddle, imo, should switch the +4 for dangerous terrain, to a 6+ invuln save for all cavalry. That would be awesome and not too OP.
Agree with you there. They are currently too fragile vs the plethora of instant deathing ap2 weaponry. Stopping the instant death ability of weapons I think would be a happy medium. Cause honestly, a 6+ invul would feel like a band aid over a severed artery... Battle Hardened with an apothecary on jetbike gives your key unit some much needed staying power. The issue is they don't want them to be the same beat sticks that they were in HH1.0. Which is understandable.
I'd be on the side of the Born to the Saddle trait allowing them to ignore the difficult terrain becoming dangerous, it makes the most sense to me. Plus I think White Scars could probably use the extra leg up either way 😅
Richard is in agreement with that POV. If you're going Chogorian Brotherhood, its Born in the Saddle. Sagyar Mazan, you use Heroes Never Die. Who perfectly tailored Warlord Traits for their respective RoWs. Strangely well synergiesed rules written by GW. Design? or Happy coincidence on their part? Never know with them sometimes 🤣
The Cyberhawk is especially good for Get Hot weapons. Rerolling that ugly 1 is nice. Though, in the last two games I managed to roll 1-1-2 and 1-1-1 respectively, actually getting one of my plasma support squad gunners killed in each of the games. What are the odds? :(
I don't think we honestly thought about the benefits of it on Gets Hot weapons. Do you run them with Plasma Cannon Heavy Support Squads, or Plasma Tact Support? Or both! lol I can see with a Apothecary added, it would be hard to lose one to Get Hot in general. Then again, when the dice Gods are against you...🤷♂️
@@fareastwargaming It’s a Plasma Gun Support Squad with a Stormseer who has a cyberhawk. Yes, Get Hot almost never (except in the last two games) kills any units. Now the Stormseer in question may have to go back to the librarium since he likes to get hit with Perils of the Warp that he channels into his poor minions. But that is another tale of woe 😂
Thanks for the correction. Though, I'd say that I still don't think that it's a viable Warlord Trait. Very situational and tailored to be thematic. We love thematic though!
@@fareastwargaming I would never play them traitor. They are one of the Terran Defenders. Very few traitors and those that were either died by the Khan’s hand or became Ebon Keshigs and eventually tied up Mortarion long enough for the Fifth to get to Terra. One of the finest legions with the best Primarch. Hence me picking them as my first tabletop army 😊
One thing that should not be underestimated is the terror that the Khan on bike can be in terms of being battlefield oppressive, even when run solo (use LoS to evade AP2 shooting though - that's his weakness). I just run his regular model with a bike-sized base, and most people seem fine with that. 18 movement is nuts.
Unfortunately, the Furious Charge (1) in his Warlord Trait, really never applies to the Khan himself, although it says it does. The reason being is that his sword gives Furious Charge (2). They don't stack.
You are right. It's a force multiplier effect of his Warlord Trait. Arguably, more worthwhile having the Furious Charge (1) in his trait alone, than Furious Charge (2) on his weapon. He doesn't really need extra attacks most of the time 😅
@@fareastwargaming I wish he gave a pure Str +1 until beginning of next White Scars player turn following any charge, like Leman Russ. Leman Russ’s is almost the same, just more stable. Then it would make the Khan Str10 on the charge, which would make him super interesting as an elite Terminator hunter.
I always look forward to your content. A battle report featuring White Scars has me even more stoked than usual, though. Salamanders are always talked about as the nice guys, but the White Scars always seemed the most likable to me. Plus, of course, VROOOOOOOOOMM!
You and me both!
Oh my boys! Thank you!
You're welcome.
As a Scars player, my main issue is that yeah, the bikes are really squishy and easy to clear. Especially given HH is WYSIWYG style terrain, shooting armies just have a massive advantage if the terrain you use does not fully block LOS.
Also, I think you might have forgotten that Golden Keshig have heavy, meaning the 5+ shrouded they get from running is inapplicable given they can't run in the first place. My experience with GK is anything ap2 just melts them, so really they don't do that much unless they are not shot at at all.
Personally, whilst I am looking to try and play a mechanised/jumppack assault company style army (without using Sagyar cause my army's lore is not sagyar), I feel whilst the legion's rule of +1 movement is strong, there is a glaring weakness in that we do not have strong buffs to our damage, which means we are relying purely on standard stock profiles.
Whilst I am not saying that this makes Scars bad etc, my personal experience in a more min-maxy kind of community is that it is very easy to outclass the Scars.
Siege of Cthonia rules has definitely helped us out by making it scoring focused, which works really well with both of our ROWs.
Yeah jetbikes never benefiting for cover saves is also another downside. Something like Battle Hardened would stop the instant death, with shroud or an apothecary fnp they would have some much needed staying power. Atm there is little point spending the money on apothecaries for small jetbike squads.
I didn't realise Golden Keshig were Heavy.... Seems a strange, but not surprising, clash of rules... Will have to dig deeper there. Getting jink back wouldn't be the end of the world either, cause it basically made you useless in shooting in the next round anyway.
Also the lance rule says, that they work only on SUCCESFULL charges. A reaction makes the charge disordered, denies the use of the lances... so more or less poor written rules, if this wasnt intended.
I think the huge weakness of Cavalry of all types, and especially Golden Keshigs, is the complete lack of Invuln saves, for units that begin with 3 models. When a las cannon squad catches LoS of you, you get wiped. So Born to the Saddle, imo, should switch the +4 for dangerous terrain, to a 6+ invuln save for all cavalry. That would be awesome and not too OP.
Agree with you there. They are currently too fragile vs the plethora of instant deathing ap2 weaponry. Stopping the instant death ability of weapons I think would be a happy medium. Cause honestly, a 6+ invul would feel like a band aid over a severed artery... Battle Hardened with an apothecary on jetbike gives your key unit some much needed staying power. The issue is they don't want them to be the same beat sticks that they were in HH1.0. Which is understandable.
I'd be on the side of the Born to the Saddle trait allowing them to ignore the difficult terrain becoming dangerous, it makes the most sense to me. Plus I think White Scars could probably use the extra leg up either way 😅
Richard is in agreement with that POV. If you're going Chogorian Brotherhood, its Born in the Saddle. Sagyar Mazan, you use Heroes Never Die. Who perfectly tailored Warlord Traits for their respective RoWs. Strangely well synergiesed rules written by GW. Design? or Happy coincidence on their part? Never know with them sometimes 🤣
The Cyberhawk is especially good for Get Hot weapons. Rerolling that ugly 1 is nice. Though, in the last two games I managed to roll 1-1-2 and 1-1-1 respectively, actually getting one of my plasma support squad gunners killed in each of the games. What are the odds? :(
I don't think we honestly thought about the benefits of it on Gets Hot weapons. Do you run them with Plasma Cannon Heavy Support Squads, or Plasma Tact Support? Or both! lol I can see with a Apothecary added, it would be hard to lose one to Get Hot in general. Then again, when the dice Gods are against you...🤷♂️
@@fareastwargaming It’s a Plasma Gun Support Squad with a Stormseer who has a cyberhawk. Yes, Get Hot almost never (except in the last two games) kills any units. Now the Stormseer in question may have to go back to the librarium since he likes to get hit with Perils of the Warp that he channels into his poor minions. But that is another tale of woe 😂
😂
One correction at 16:35: Sons of Horus and White Scars see each other as Sworn Brothers, not distrusted.
Thanks for the correction. Though, I'd say that I still don't think that it's a viable Warlord Trait. Very situational and tailored to be thematic. We love thematic though!
@@fareastwargaming I would never play them traitor. They are one of the Terran Defenders. Very few traitors and those that were either died by the Khan’s hand or became Ebon Keshigs and eventually tied up Mortarion long enough for the Fifth to get to Terra. One of the finest legions with the best Primarch. Hence me picking them as my first tabletop army 😊
Nice. My army.
Glad you liked it! Share your feedback if you found it useful or if we missed something 👍
One thing that should not be underestimated is the terror that the Khan on bike can be in terms of being battlefield oppressive, even when run solo (use LoS to evade AP2 shooting though - that's his weakness). I just run his regular model with a bike-sized base, and most people seem fine with that. 18 movement is nuts.
@@fareastwargaming I will. Still watching 😊
Unfortunately, the Furious Charge (1) in his Warlord Trait, really never applies to the Khan himself, although it says it does. The reason being is that his sword gives Furious Charge (2). They don't stack.
You are right. It's a force multiplier effect of his Warlord Trait. Arguably, more worthwhile having the Furious Charge (1) in his trait alone, than Furious Charge (2) on his weapon. He doesn't really need extra attacks most of the time 😅
@@fareastwargaming I wish he gave a pure Str +1 until beginning of next White Scars player turn following any charge, like Leman Russ. Leman Russ’s is almost the same, just more stable. Then it would make the Khan Str10 on the charge, which would make him super interesting as an elite Terminator hunter.