I've just realized that this bookclub IS the Mira Heresy. An honest, kind, and noble D&D enthusiast being corrupted by the depraved powers of someone that worships The Boss.
Im in the same boat as mira learning as i read. I was a kid in the 80s and white dwarf were all about the pictures.The first couple of books were great but the way the books connect the dots for already written lore is confusing if you dont already know it. Love you sharing your knowledge, and it's a great way to refresh what you've already read 👍. This book gave me a seven deadly sins film feel to it....not jump scare film, but after you've watched it, the atrocities committed play on your mind.
Emperor's Children exclusive player and collector, here. Fulgrim was amazing, and your summary was spot on. Poor old Ostian and Serena. It hit home doubly hard, as I'm a professional artist.
The part towards the end after the Isstvan V drops items massacre, when Fulgrim is talking to Horus about what went on and how he tosses Ferus' head towards Horus. And how he tells Horus that he is actually a demon that is possessing Fulgrim is amazing.
I'm quite looking forward to seeing the response to Thousand Sons, mainly just because they're unique among the traitor legions by being people who didn't actually want to turn traitor
My favourite moment in Fulgrim was after the fight with the avatar of Khaine where Fulgrim was forced to yeet his sword away. After that he is temporarily rid of the demonic influence and has this lingering moment of sanity when meeting up with Horus' fleet. His sanity starts fighting back and he thinks "I could end it all right now" as he closes in on unsuspecting Horus. And then the sword manipulates one of the Emperor's Children to be brought to Fulgrim and he is once again lost.
@@collecter343 Definitely. He served no purpose other than demonstrating the power of Fulgrim and his demon sword. Not that an Avatar of Khaine would make for a particularly interesting character anyway.
@@collecter343 Definitely. He served no purpose other than demonstrating the power of Fulgrim and his demon sword. Not that an Avatar of Khaine would make for a particularly interesting character anyway.
@@doobiousd5020 It's more than that - it shows Fulgrim acting the role of an *avatar of Slaanesh* and symbolically reenacting the defeat of Khaine by the Youngest God. This symbolism is certainly not lost on the Keeper of Secrets within the sword, or on the Eldar witnesses which it is terrorising.
Love this series, love Mira, love Ian. Fulgrim is my favorite book in HH and you guys really did it justice. Looking forward to more vids in this series and particularly looking forward to Legion and Thousand Sons. Keep up the good work guys!
"Elves, Mr Arbitor, elves!" 😄😄😄 Thanks for another great episode, Mira and Ian. "I could pull off an elf..." Ooh, matron! 😊 I'm looking forward to Ian's self-help book, "Give less of a shit."
almost 100k subs Ian is going to get his plaque I am so weirdly proud of you man. Also proud of you mira as someone who took similar steps into the 40k verse approximately a year before i just want to say you're doing great. smashing it.
I gotta say, I started with this video and then immediately went back and started working my way through the rest of this series. You're doing great work Ian. I'm addicted.
I really enjoyed your chat about Eldar lore. I knew most of this but I didn't know the Emperor was waiting for the warp storms to subside so he could begin his crusade. Thanks for sharing.
Agree with Ian about Fulgrim’s place in the Heresy series. Feel that the first three comprise the core trilogy, with Eisenstein acting as an epilogue, and Fulgrim is basically a companion to the Isstvan III arc
Ahem. The FOUR biggest Loyalist legions. The White Scars were in Chondax fighting Orks (Orks who were being surreptitiously helped by Alpha Legionaries). Horus wasn't sure if the Khan would stay loyal, but he sent them far away too, just in case.
I was pleasantly surprised with the Siege of Terra books having some ancient (Roman and Greek) quotes with the funny little like "By The Grand Philiosphex of the Romani" at the end, we need more of that
Though he is deceased, Ferrus Manus continues to haunt the mentally unstable Vulkan in the form of a ghost that persistently berates him. The same ghost haunts Corvus Corax. He is refered to as a "skull ghost" or "skost." 🤣
1:00:21 It is insane to me that is what I end up taking away the most from this video, but this little speech was so motivating to me! I haven't got time to make things perfect. This is where I am right now, no use worrying, there are things that need to be done, even if the end result is less than perfect. The manure murder painting barrel review was also quite good
I can still hear Mira's "Graham McNeil" note in her opening jingle ringing in the distance. Edit: I'd totally be Ignace, man gives off jack black in king kong vibes
The Blake references remind me of Chris Wraight's references to Bach in his novels. Seems that certain authors like to put their appreciation of classics in Warhammer as well as to add to what Humanity as lost for the narrative.
One thing i thought was interesting was the description of a headless giant leading warriors that resembled the Legion of the Damned in Master of Mankind. It always made sense to me that the legion was comprised of the dead of Istvaan III and V, reanimated in the warp to exact revenge against those who betrayed them.
That whole explanation of Slaneesh and what the Eldar were and are now made me look forward to whenever you'll do the Path of The Eldar series by Gav Thorpe...
I've been going through the horus heresy myself after coming back to the hobby last year. On Fallen Angels right now and my top 2 so far are Fulgrim and Legion. Really enjoying the series and it was awesome to see you guys talk about one of my favs. Going to go back and watch your others, and try and keep ahead of you guys!
Regarding the topic of not having the privilege of perfection. It can be a bit more complex than privilege. I am autistic and pretty highly impacted by it, my body will outright refuse to go to sleep at times until something is perfect. When I was a freelance web developer I would frequently go days without sleep, one time I went 5 days straight working before collapsing (literally). My aunt as well when working for the csiro (australian scientific organisation) had a similar issue and had to be hospitalised, however she also made key discoveries and is now recognised in the museum of science over here for her achievements. It can be a bit more complicated than just "well I needed to earn money so I couldn't take the time"
"We're going to have a poo poo party pom-pom" is probably the only description needed on the dust jacket of Fulgrim. Stunning shout out to Buxton, so casual 😂
Relatively new to the warhammer 40k universe and love the lore. Decided to order the Eisenhorn omnibus of books tonight I heard they are a good starting point for warhammer novels can’t wait to get reading them!
would also recommend; Gaunt's Ghosts and Ciaphas Cain series for Imperial Guard human stories, - vaults of terra and watchers of the throne series for "modern timeline" Imperial 40k perspective around whats going on on Holy Terra (earth), - and the dawn of fire series for more modern 40k timeline and the current wars,
Great to see you both again, talking about a great book by one of my favorite authors. Thanks for taking a look at it! I consider this a prequel to my very favorite novel, Angel Exterminatus. That's the book that turned me into a heavyweight 40k fan. But my fandom as an adult began with Fulgrim.
Something that bugs me about Chaos and related concepts in other stories (e.g. the Dark Side in Star Wars) is the idea that just touching it starts 'corrupting' a person. It feels like such outside influence removes agency from the characters who wind up succumbing to it. It's hard to lay the blame for Horus or Fulgrim's falls to Chaos on their shoulders when both have this outside compulsion grinding away on their minds. The story goes from "this person turned into a Villain due to their own flaws" to "there's a weird magical disease that messes up your brain, no touchy". It feels like it cheapens their stories.
Yeah especially Horus turn felt really unearned in the first book to me, I guess that's why they come back to it in later books. I would've preferred if Horus was willfully wounded a bit in to the Heresy as a desperate attempt to gain enough power to carry on the rebellion.
If you're looking for a snowy book with some mid-winter festivities, you should check out Lukas the Trickster. I'm reading it at the moment and it's pretty good so far.
I loved this book which must put me on some sort of watch list. It's full of crazy shit, truly detestable characters and really fleshes out Fulgrim. By way you two are awesome (nice Adam Buxton reference pom pom!)
I think this is genuinely probably my favourite book in the Heresy, it's so gloriously weird, but in a way that people haven't latched on to and keep bringing up in unrelated conversations. It's pride going before one of the biggest falls in all of fiction (not necessarily because they'd reached such heights, but because they plunged so low).
For some new reads down the lane I'd suggest trying old, but pretty good "Execution Hour" by Gordon Rennie. Horus Heresy ultimately bogs down into filler soon after Fulgrim, while here is something completly different - classic naval war story, with all the tropes of the genre. But with Chaos. And macrocannons.
This is probably one of the most divisive books in heresy. The first 4 books were incredible, then Fulgrim was either amazing or terrible depending who you ask. Fulgrim's and the EC's fall is so fast and apparent and the payoff in the 4th act is wonderful, but the parts in between just drag on so long. A fun drinking game is taking a shot every time "blood/passion in the paint" comes up.
Crossfire by Matthew Farrer is a detective story set firmly during the Sanguinala. It's mid chapter intermission are all about how it's celebrated and so on. Admittedly a bit slower book, but really I quite enjoyed it. Otherwise, the second Ciaphas Cain novel "Caves of Ice" is quite wintery for sure.
Hey Ian for some reason this video isn’t on your main feed, but only the playlist channel. That’s prob why the views are so low. I was hoping to find more and here it is!
"I could pull off an Elf"
Don't do it, that's how this whole thing started!
Too accurate 😂
I've just realized that this bookclub IS the Mira Heresy. An honest, kind, and noble D&D enthusiast being corrupted by the depraved powers of someone that worships The Boss.
13:15 Mira laughing at the phrase "takes a big load" 😂😂
I laughed too. Great Finbar Saunders moment.
@@johnmckiernan2176 DO NOT "pull off" a Drukhari...
"One's of them's even got a massive hammer."...I see you, Mira 😉
This 😂😂😂
Im in the same boat as mira learning as i read. I was a kid in the 80s and white dwarf were all about the pictures.The first couple of books were great but the way the books connect the dots for already written lore is confusing if you dont already know it. Love you sharing your knowledge, and it's a great way to refresh what you've already read 👍. This book gave me a seven deadly sins film feel to it....not jump scare film, but after you've watched it, the atrocities committed play on your mind.
Mira: 'you're really humanising these monsters', and Ian just looks at the screen with the biggest grin ever. yes he certainly is lol
Emperor's Children exclusive player and collector, here. Fulgrim was amazing, and your summary was spot on. Poor old Ostian and Serena. It hit home doubly hard, as I'm a professional artist.
The part towards the end after the Isstvan V drops items massacre, when Fulgrim is talking to Horus about what went on and how he tosses Ferus' head towards Horus. And how he tells Horus that he is actually a demon that is possessing Fulgrim is amazing.
As someone with over twenty years in retail, I would argue that all Warhammer 40K novels are Christmas novels.
Depressing reality
I'm quite looking forward to seeing the response to Thousand Sons, mainly just because they're unique among the traitor legions by being people who didn't actually want to turn traitor
My favourite moment in Fulgrim was after the fight with the avatar of Khaine where Fulgrim was forced to yeet his sword away. After that he is temporarily rid of the demonic influence and has this lingering moment of sanity when meeting up with Horus' fleet. His sanity starts fighting back and he thinks "I could end it all right now" as he closes in on unsuspecting Horus. And then the sword manipulates one of the Emperor's Children to be brought to Fulgrim and he is once again lost.
Least realistic part of the book. Fulgrim's opponent needs fate dice ;D
Tbh, that was actually the most true-to-tabletop Heresy book yet.
@@doobiousd5020Avatar of Khaine existing just to make other characters look good.
@@collecter343 Definitely. He served no purpose other than demonstrating the power of Fulgrim and his demon sword. Not that an Avatar of Khaine would make for a particularly interesting character anyway.
@@collecter343 Definitely. He served no purpose other than demonstrating the power of Fulgrim and his demon sword. Not that an Avatar of Khaine would make for a particularly interesting character anyway.
@@doobiousd5020 It's more than that - it shows Fulgrim acting the role of an *avatar of Slaanesh* and symbolically reenacting the defeat of Khaine by the Youngest God. This symbolism is certainly not lost on the Keeper of Secrets within the sword, or on the Eldar witnesses which it is terrorising.
I enjoyed fulgrim. His possession was unique because it felt like even if horus didnt fall, he would have anyway.
This review wouldn't have been nearly as cool without Mira.
I look forward to more videos of this type
Love this series, love Mira, love Ian. Fulgrim is my favorite book in HH and you guys really did it justice. Looking forward to more vids in this series and particularly looking forward to Legion and Thousand Sons. Keep up the good work guys!
"Elves, Mr Arbitor, elves!" 😄😄😄
Thanks for another great episode, Mira and Ian.
"I could pull off an elf..." Ooh, matron! 😊
I'm looking forward to Ian's self-help book, "Give less of a shit."
almost 100k subs Ian is going to get his plaque I am so weirdly proud of you man. Also proud of you mira as someone who took similar steps into the 40k verse approximately a year before i just want to say you're doing great. smashing it.
First Heretic is great for more Istvann V stories. Can’t forget the first ever “Death to the False Emperor”
Jago Sevatarion once again just beiing the best badass ever
I want to have a t-shit that says, "For some reason, sex is crabs" 😂
I wonder if Mira continues to rank the Emperors Children as the worst Space Marines after encountering the Night Lords.
CAN. NOT. WAIT. for when she reads about Primarch K keeping best bro Primarch and torturing him over and over again...
Vulkan lives is a terrible book, stuff like that is what really made the Horus heresy series a bloated mess to slog through
I gotta say, I started with this video and then immediately went back and started working my way through the rest of this series. You're doing great work Ian. I'm addicted.
You can see Mira dying when Ian explains the whole lore of the Aeldari. I love that.
Huge, dark angels fan, so surprised to no one Decent of angels is my favorite, im so excited to see them talk about it!
While Ferrus and Fulgrim are the opposites, they do actually have very similar "working class" background. Kind of makes sense they would be friends.
I really enjoyed your chat about Eldar lore. I knew most of this but I didn't know the Emperor was waiting for the warp storms to subside so he could begin his crusade. Thanks for sharing.
"Wipe that out, this is Warhammer" - quote of the week 😂
Quite a journey for Mira:
20:15 "Yay, Space Elves."
27:24 *Facepalm induced by Drukhari lifestyle*
I love Mira’s summaries at the beginning!
Time to enjoy this review by Fulgr-Ian and Mira-viglia. Always liked this book.
you two are so pleasant to watch and listen to, thank you for your reviews!!
Agree with Ian about Fulgrim’s place in the Heresy series. Feel that the first three comprise the core trilogy, with Eisenstein acting as an epilogue, and Fulgrim is basically a companion to the Isstvan III arc
Another excellent review for the book club! Im loving Mira's enmanurement to the grimdark Verse.
Ahem. The FOUR biggest Loyalist legions. The White Scars were in Chondax fighting Orks (Orks who were being surreptitiously helped by Alpha Legionaries). Horus wasn't sure if the Khan would stay loyal, but he sent them far away too, just in case.
I was pleasantly surprised with the Siege of Terra books having some ancient (Roman and Greek) quotes with the funny little like "By The Grand Philiosphex of the Romani" at the end, we need more of that
This book was so unique in the series so far for busting out classics as if it were perfectly normal: from Herodotus to the "Romani."
Though he is deceased, Ferrus Manus continues to haunt the mentally unstable Vulkan in the form of a ghost that persistently berates him. The same ghost haunts Corvus Corax. He is refered to as a "skull ghost" or "skost." 🤣
1:00:21 It is insane to me that is what I end up taking away the most from this video, but this little speech was so motivating to me! I haven't got time to make things perfect. This is where I am right now, no use worrying, there are things that need to be done, even if the end result is less than perfect.
The manure murder painting barrel review was also quite good
"Going to a poo-poo party pom-pom"
STEPHEEENN!
I can still hear Mira's "Graham McNeil" note in her opening jingle ringing in the distance.
Edit: I'd totally be Ignace, man gives off jack black in king kong vibes
That analogy is frighteningly spot on.
Fulgim's fall feels like one of the most tragic.
The Blake references remind me of Chris Wraight's references to Bach in his novels. Seems that certain authors like to put their appreciation of classics in Warhammer as well as to add to what Humanity as lost for the narrative.
Istvaan 3 + Istvaan 5 = 8 (pointed star)
Mira said "I could pull off an elf."
First Heretic & Betrayer are my 2 favourite HH novels by far!
One thing i thought was interesting was the description of a headless giant leading warriors that resembled the Legion of the Damned in Master of Mankind. It always made sense to me that the legion was comprised of the dead of Istvaan III and V, reanimated in the warp to exact revenge against those who betrayed them.
That whole explanation of Slaneesh and what the Eldar were and are now made me look forward to whenever you'll do the Path of The Eldar series by Gav Thorpe...
I've been going through the horus heresy myself after coming back to the hobby last year. On Fallen Angels right now and my top 2 so far are Fulgrim and Legion. Really enjoying the series and it was awesome to see you guys talk about one of my favs. Going to go back and watch your others, and try and keep ahead of you guys!
36:46 the student has become the master haha. Great review both!
Half way through this one, knowing the history of the pleasure God prior has helped a lot more knowing WTF is going on while reading.
I love the concept that "First Wives Club" should be Horus Heresy session zero . And don't let perfection be the enemy of finished.
How do we get Mira’a jumper? Sorry if I missed it 😮🎉
Regarding the topic of not having the privilege of perfection. It can be a bit more complex than privilege. I am autistic and pretty highly impacted by it, my body will outright refuse to go to sleep at times until something is perfect. When I was a freelance web developer I would frequently go days without sleep, one time I went 5 days straight working before collapsing (literally). My aunt as well when working for the csiro (australian scientific organisation) had a similar issue and had to be hospitalised, however she also made key discoveries and is now recognised in the museum of science over here for her achievements.
It can be a bit more complicated than just "well I needed to earn money so I couldn't take the time"
I think humanising the monsters is the most interesting thing, really ; hinking about the final three Gaunts Ghosts books too.
I can’t wait for you guys to do an episode on Legion!
Same! Probably my favourite heresy book, either that or know no fear. Seems to be a theme Abnett almost always killing it with his books!
It will obviously be as planned...
For Christmas novels, you should do a Logsn Grimnar novel. I mean, he rides a sled in the snow...
"We're going to have a poo poo party pom-pom" is probably the only description needed on the dust jacket of Fulgrim. Stunning shout out to Buxton, so casual 😂
Song Wars 40,000 😂
Relatively new to the warhammer 40k universe and love the lore. Decided to order the Eisenhorn omnibus of books tonight I heard they are a good starting point for warhammer novels can’t wait to get reading them!
would also recommend; Gaunt's Ghosts and Ciaphas Cain series for Imperial Guard human stories, - vaults of terra and watchers of the throne series for "modern timeline" Imperial 40k perspective around whats going on on Holy Terra (earth), - and the dawn of fire series for more modern 40k timeline and the current wars,
@@gawkthimm6030 will keep these in mind, cheers! 👍
Anyone else think the colour palette for "bodily fluid" paintings is Blanchitsu?
Great to see you both again, talking about a great book by one of my favorite authors. Thanks for taking a look at it! I consider this a prequel to my very favorite novel, Angel Exterminatus. That's the book that turned me into a heavyweight 40k fan. But my fandom as an adult began with Fulgrim.
'The edge of obscenity!' yup.
Mira's action movie blurb / plot summary / trailer was awesome!
51:45 _"I could pull off an Elf"_ - Mira Manga, 2023
Mira’s face when Ian says ‘big load’ 😂
F's in chat if you instinctively helped Ian buy saying "Nightlords!" out loud.
I wasn’t expecting a casual Adam Buxton reference in a Horus Heresy book review, but here we are….
Fulgrim was the only one that I still remember bits of. Specifically, when they gathered their embracers together and unlifed them.
The maraviglia?
Really like the longer format. Keep it up
Let's face it Fulgrim went Full Grim.... i'll get my coat.
Someone please explain the DnD thing about sex and crabs? I've been playing for years and never heard about it lol
Oh my god, a reference to an Adam Buxton song? I love it!
With Mechanicum, this is my absolut favorite book. Will watch the video soon.
Something that bugs me about Chaos and related concepts in other stories (e.g. the Dark Side in Star Wars) is the idea that just touching it starts 'corrupting' a person. It feels like such outside influence removes agency from the characters who wind up succumbing to it. It's hard to lay the blame for Horus or Fulgrim's falls to Chaos on their shoulders when both have this outside compulsion grinding away on their minds. The story goes from "this person turned into a Villain due to their own flaws" to "there's a weird magical disease that messes up your brain, no touchy". It feels like it cheapens their stories.
It uses your flaws as a way in though - and it’s possible to resist
Yeah especially Horus turn felt really unearned in the first book to me, I guess that's why they come back to it in later books.
I would've preferred if Horus was willfully wounded a bit in to the Heresy as a desperate attempt to gain enough power to carry on the rebellion.
Loving that I’m reading these at basically a similar pace. I’m just looking for the guidance of you guys on what one to do next as I go 😅
If you're looking for a snowy book with some mid-winter festivities, you should check out Lukas the Trickster. I'm reading it at the moment and it's pretty good so far.
1:01:25 Hell yeah Ian is so Metal 🤘
I wanted to switch to the podcast immediately, but couldn't find it in my podcast app of choice... what exactly do I look for on iOS?
When are yall gonna cover the dark imperium trilogy??
Good timing I've just finished this last night 😄
Wait till she meets Lorgar, aka the urizene, A 10 foot tall William Blake reference
I loved this book which must put me on some sort of watch list. It's full of crazy shit, truly detestable characters and really fleshes out Fulgrim. By way you two are awesome (nice Adam Buxton reference pom pom!)
I think this is genuinely probably my favourite book in the Heresy, it's so gloriously weird, but in a way that people haven't latched on to and keep bringing up in unrelated conversations. It's pride going before one of the biggest falls in all of fiction (not necessarily because they'd reached such heights, but because they plunged so low).
For some new reads down the lane I'd suggest trying old, but pretty good "Execution Hour" by Gordon Rennie. Horus Heresy ultimately bogs down into filler soon after Fulgrim, while here is something completly different - classic naval war story, with all the tropes of the genre. But with Chaos. And macrocannons.
I listened to the book just so I could listen to the episode.
wow i never realised that i Hadnt read this book. My snake marines would have had a different background if i knew about this
So happy to follow this series!
This is probably one of the most divisive books in heresy. The first 4 books were incredible, then Fulgrim was either amazing or terrible depending who you ask.
Fulgrim's and the EC's fall is so fast and apparent and the payoff in the 4th act is wonderful, but the parts in between just drag on so long. A fun drinking game is taking a shot every time "blood/passion in the paint" comes up.
It's terrible. The dialogue is cringeworthy. I actively avoid this writer's books after trying this, having loved many of the other BL authors. 😬😬😬
Beasts in Velvet is a fun old Warhammer Fantasy murder mystery. Can't remember if it is truly detective, but it's certainly adjacent.
Crossfire by Matthew Farrer is a detective story set firmly during the Sanguinala. It's mid chapter intermission are all about how it's celebrated and so on. Admittedly a bit slower book, but really I quite enjoyed it.
Otherwise, the second Ciaphas Cain novel "Caves of Ice" is quite wintery for sure.
Crossfire is set during the leadup to the Mass of St Balronas.
I think Soul Hunter should be on the next patreon poll ;) isn’t Da Red Gobbo the most Xmas-y Warhammer book though?
The best things in christmas are unconventional, like watching the muppets or granny cracking open a lager 😂
Perfection is the enemy of progress, always the next step
Where did Mira get that shirt?? :)
From her own merch store! 😅
Can’t wait to see you both talk siege of terra
Horrifying book, but I might just read it again lol
Looking forward to the Mechanicum review! 🙌❤️
The whole book can be summarised with @38:30
Hey Ian for some reason this video isn’t on your main feed, but only the playlist channel. That’s prob why the views are so low. I was hoping to find more and here it is!
Yeah. I’d been waiting for it, and only found it by complete chance because it wasn’t on the main feed.
It goes live for patreons for a while before coming out on general release
Aurelian covers the birth of Slaanesh pretty well if I remember right, good one to read before The First Heretic.
Aurelian is set during/after The First Heretic, you're meant to read it afterwards, not before
@23:10 Black Squadron, assemble!
STEPHEN!
@@miramanga I knew you were a person of culture! Wuzzah Wuzzah
22:57 Mira knows her Adam and Joe! ❤
for detective books you havent read yet there is blood lines bt chris wraight
Fulgrim: It's BARRELS of fun...
So, everyone's seen Ian's, "Pink, lovely ones?" Mkay
By the way, the guys at Poorhammer recommended your channel!
Loved the Adam Buxton ‘poo-poo party Pompom!’ reference 😄