I will say from a calibration standpoint it can be difficult to set a white point on a non DV device such as this. I use the HDFury VRRoom and I can notice a slight red shade in what should be a white highlight when using the DV hack. I also use Calman and a Murideo 6g to do my standard calibrations and trying to activate Dolby Vision for the LS12000 is a pain. I’m not saying it can’t but it doesn’t like it. It’s a fun little hack and if more discs would utilize HDR10+ (which the LS12000 does accept) I probably would have left it at that. Thank you for doing the video.
They have a new device, the VRROOM. It does HDR 10 plus and Dolby Vision on my old JVC RS540 projector. But what's most impressive, you can set the device to tone map standard blu-rays. It works extremely well. I don't watch to many 4k HDR movies on my projector because it's only 1900 lumens. My projector will accept a 4k signal, but it's not true 4k. The blu-rays get up converted through the device and then tone mapped. I could not believe the difference it made.
I am a LS12000 owner and am considering the VRRoom. I was curious on how the HDFury while emulating a DV EDID handles native HDR10+ signals from Prime. Does it just pass it through without having to change settings? Perhaps you could demo this as well as your settings and setup. I have a 1080 7.2 receiver without atmos. I plan on sending 4k to the LS12000 and passing the earc to the receiver using the VRROOM as the switcher. I may upgrade to atmos at some point. I currently have a 4k Firestick in the back of the projector and send the earc to the receiver. Since the Firestick is the only 4k source I have currently, it seems to be a good solution. The VRROOM input switching would delay the need for a new $3K-$4k receiver for a bit.
That sounds like a solid plan if you're not ready to purchase a new AVR yet just for atmos and few other features. I will do my best to compare the DV vs HDR10+ and HDR10 again. You make a good point and I think I have it set to Force DV only when available so otherwise the HDR10+ will just pass through since the LS12000 accepts that signal natively. Please like and sub!
@michaelsolinski2496 I am going to do something similar with the Cube and my 4k blu ray player. I don't have Atmos either. I think I will future proof my room with 2 Atmos points though. My processor is a Emotiva XMC 1 with the upgraded 4k hdmi board.
Good timing, I just picked up a vertex like yours. And a optoma uhz65lv laser projector. Both items I purchased separately just a couple days ago. So happy to find this video. Keep them coming. I just subscribed
@@thedaingeon question.. do you constantly have to select whenever you feed it a DV signal and manually switch to LLDV mode the manually turn it off? I’m not sure if I read that somewhere and that newer vertex2 and diva vroom arcana do it automatically?
My epson eh-tw9400 (6040ub) likes low latency Dolby Vision thanks to my HDFury. Maybe it doesn't have the brightness but the metadata information does something to make it look better than the HDR10
Thanks for the video I have subscribed. I still think that picture still looks too dark on your projector. Could you do a video where you use a panasonic 4k player and convert the HDR2020 signal to SDR2020, I am interested how the results would compare because projectors cannot really do hdr properly so its more of an advantage i have found to convert the HDR signal to SDR. You then get the full contrast range the projector can handle and you will still get 2020 colourspace to boot and you could do away with the processor altogether. Thanks
Just a note here to help those wanting HDR to work well on the LS12000. You can turn the HDR slider from default 8 down to 2, and Gamma to -1. This will make all those unbearably black scenes vibrant, yet visible. HDR is a tool, and it just seems to be too dark for me.
Why did you get the vertex 2 rather than the cheaper hd Fury. I just have one source the apple tv I want to apply this to and was thinking of grabbing the HD Fury but curious if I am missing anything? Btw thanks for doing this. It's not massive but noticable better.
Its actually the Vertex 1... I am borrowing from a friend so I can determine if I like it enough to invest in the HDFury VRROOM. The vertex will work great with the apple tv! Hope you can like and subscribe
Hi I got the LS12000 earlier this month. I haven't fired it up yet because I am still finishing up my room. I am looking at getting HD Fury VRRoom. Do you know of any settings or maybe do a more in-depth vid? Thanks again for your help.
I have the VRRoom and I have some settings I can send you via Facebook. My page is @TheDaingeon so just reach out and let me know what devices you’re using and what you’re looking to achieve
Was about to try that on Epson UB6050 but i don't know.. picture just seems brighter overall (colours and scenes, darker parts) But also raised black levels?- if you look at cinemascope black bars HDR 10 on the right seems to be better (darker)?!
Yeah it does show a bit brighter on the LLDV side and darker on the HDR10 side but I think it was just the camera. I really liked the details on the side using Vertex and DV. Thanks for the comment, please like and sub!
DV setting offers more control, the blacks are better and the image has more depth, and thats all I can see from the video. I want to say how nicely this projector paints HDR end nicely saturated colors.
Thanks for the inspiration! I'm going to be setting up a similar setup with Epson LS11000 on a wall painted silver screen using Shield Pro and VRROOM! Liked and subbed! Please describe this process in more detail in another video
Great to hear others are interested in this. I just bought the vrroom and will make a video of the process with the LS12000. Thanks for the sub! Hope you liked the video and spread the word about the channel
@@thedaingeon I'd like to see how LLDV handles color curves that are easy to spot, such as title and credits. Does the text pop and the background left with deep blacks? Others are right about the fact that non DV displays will always render 10 bit color depth, and there's a point about going against the directors intention, but the way I see it should mean less hassle from the user and not have to use the HDR slider for every show/movie. It would be nice to see a 3 way comparison on HDR10+, LLDV HDR10+, and DV but there's no DV in the projector world to compare
Really appreciate the video ... from the forums we can tell there is a real improvement. What's your thoughts seeing it in real life ? What's the differences in this and the vertex 2? You have a similar setup to myself ..I've the 12000b and using the series x as the main media player .. did you try it with a 4k disc? Also what's your thoughts on vrroom ? As it does in theory all the vertex 2 does but adds 4k 120.
I think the vertex looks great! Definitely a nice difference from HDR10. I don’t have a 4K player that supports DV discs (XboxSX and PS5 don’t support) so the only content I have tested is streaming DV which looks awesome with the vertex. I don’t have the vertex 2 to compare but it seems like it’s only big difference is that it has an app and does not require just a pc plugged in to manipulate settings. I am interested in trying the Vrroom but don’t have one at this time. Vrroom would be great to try Halo DV at 4K120hz
Sorry probably stupid question. I have ordered an LS12000 and I have a denon Avr-x4700h receiver. My receiver has Dolby vision and hdmi 2.1 capability already. Would a Hdfury vroom add any benefit to my setup?
It will allow you to play content in LLDV so there is that, but the Vertex is rather expensive and the LS12000 already has HDR10+ which looks great too. Really up to you, but I enjoy DV content personally so I like messing with it
Welcome! Well the laser does have its advantage because it will last 20,000 hours or more and the picture quality and contrast are great especially with HDR10+ content. The LS12000 can handle HDMI 2.1 signals for fast gaming at a low latency 20ms and 4K 120hz. But it doesnt have 3D, its very larg and it costs $5k USD. I highly recommend it if you have the budget. Hope you like and subscribe!
Hi I have a epson 5040 running from pc rtx 3070ti and ps4 Pro my vertex was working fine I move the location and not sure but now I get no picture. Will your settings work for my setup I had HDR working before now without the vertex I can’t get the HDR setting on but I can get 4K resolution sorry for the long question. Any help greatly appreciated. Thanks
Here a picture I now this but no signal INFO 백99. 299. 429 E12929 139 H02. 445위다. 로 EDID not available off or not connected EASON EN EDID: CINCO 42O BE HDR ETEOES"*** 4K59.933 420 BT2020 126 HDR 445MHz 1.4
I have this vertex barely getting around to trying to set it up, but a little lost on what settings I should be choosing for LLDV use only(no hdmi switching etc) any links or info you can provide would be appreciated. Also do you have to manually turn on and off the LLDV or is it automatic, I read after I purchased the vertex v1 that it isn’t automatic like the diva,vertex2,zoom or even the less expensive Arcana. Can you confirm since I don’t know if I should switch to the arcana if it’s a more set and forget automatic experience. Great content as always. Also I’m using a Optoma UHZ65LV laser 4k 5000 lumen not sure what nits you’d recommend, screen is SI Slate 5 1.2gain alr
Its honestly pretty easy once you follow the directions on the HDFury site to update the firmward get the GUI set up. Have you got that far yet? If so on the first tab of the GUI under Automix... check the following boxes (HDR10+, 2020, HLG, DV Force meta data and native). Then unselect automix and now check Custom select: then change both drop downs to (5- Custom default Sony A1 LLDV V2). Then select UPLOAD EDID. After you restart your projector and all devices then the basic LLDV settings should be working. Of course as you learn to use it you can try different things but this is the easiest way I found to get started! Hope this helps! Tell your friends and family to sub and like the channel!
The HDfury Vertex doesn't tone map at all. It tricks the EDID so the source player uses LLDV which then adds the metadata and produces a HDR compatible signal out to the projector. The extra info in the data "acts like" dynamic tone mapping
You would have to ask HDFury support. Try giving them your projector model and info and they will probably verify if it is compatible. Hope you like and sub
Forcing DV to a non DV display is messing up the intended tone mapping. Just because you are using a DV signal doesn’t mean it’s going to look as intended.
I agree 💯 David and definitely one of the biggest controversies in some of these online groups and sites , and heaven forbid you try to correct people with the truth, cause it's like talking to a brick wall.... lol 😂😂😂😂
@@thedaingeon the thing is that it doesn’t improve range or colour. The colourspace between HDR10 and DV are 100% identical. The dynamic range of your projector (or any projector) is BELOW HDR10. Adding DV dynamic range means absolutely nothing especially because the projector can’t even do a proper HDR10 to begin with.
@@DavidSusiloUnscripted not trying to steer anyone in the wrong direction, just showing off what the vertex can do and learn new techniques as I grow my knowledge of the hobby. Most important to me is that the image looks real good on screen. I can honestly say what’s happening between the vertex and ls1200 is really making content look good. Thanks again for your information and I’ll keep note of it going forward.
I will say from a calibration standpoint it can be difficult to set a white point on a non DV device such as this. I use the HDFury VRRoom and I can notice a slight red shade in what should be a white highlight when using the DV hack. I also use Calman and a Murideo 6g to do my standard calibrations and trying to activate Dolby Vision for the LS12000 is a pain. I’m not saying it can’t but it doesn’t like it. It’s a fun little hack and if more discs would utilize HDR10+ (which the LS12000 does accept) I probably would have left it at that. Thank you for doing the video.
Good points Gerald. Thanks for the reply and I hope you can like and sub. I’ll be making some more tweaks and videos with the vertex soon
They have a new device, the VRROOM. It does HDR 10 plus and Dolby Vision on my old JVC RS540 projector. But what's most impressive, you can set the device to tone map standard blu-rays. It works extremely well. I don't watch to many 4k HDR movies on my projector because it's only 1900 lumens. My projector will accept a 4k signal, but it's not true 4k. The blu-rays get up converted through the device and then tone mapped. I could not believe the difference it made.
I would be curious to try this out with some of my older Blu-ray Discs. Do you have a link to any settings I should try to achieve this?
@@thedaingeoncheck out avs the official Epson thread has links to some god mode user settings
@@kopkiwi08 God mode settings on the VRROOM or the Epson LS12000? Can you share a link please?
@@kopkiwi08 can you provide a link?
I am a LS12000 owner and am considering the VRRoom. I was curious on how the HDFury while emulating a DV EDID handles native HDR10+ signals from Prime. Does it just pass it through without having to change settings? Perhaps you could demo this as well as your settings and setup. I have a 1080 7.2 receiver without atmos. I plan on sending 4k to the LS12000 and passing the earc to the receiver using the VRROOM as the switcher. I may upgrade to atmos at some point. I currently have a 4k Firestick in the back of the projector and send the earc to the receiver. Since the Firestick is the only 4k source I have currently, it seems to be a good solution. The VRROOM input switching would delay the need for a new $3K-$4k receiver for a bit.
That sounds like a solid plan if you're not ready to purchase a new AVR yet just for atmos and few other features. I will do my best to compare the DV vs HDR10+ and HDR10 again. You make a good point and I think I have it set to Force DV only when available so otherwise the HDR10+ will just pass through since the LS12000 accepts that signal natively. Please like and sub!
@michaelsolinski2496 I am going to do something similar with the Cube and my 4k blu ray player. I don't have Atmos either. I think I will future proof my room with 2 Atmos points though. My processor is a Emotiva XMC 1 with the upgraded 4k hdmi board.
Good timing, I just picked up a vertex like yours. And a optoma uhz65lv laser projector. Both items I purchased separately just a couple days ago. So happy to find this video. Keep them coming. I just subscribed
You wont be dissapointed
@@thedaingeon question.. do you constantly have to select whenever you feed it a DV signal and manually switch to LLDV mode the manually turn it off? I’m not sure if I read that somewhere and that newer vertex2 and diva vroom arcana do it automatically?
My epson eh-tw9400 (6040ub) likes low latency Dolby Vision thanks to my HDFury. Maybe it doesn't have the brightness but the metadata information does something to make it look better than the HDR10
Thanks for the video I have subscribed. I still think that picture still looks too dark on your projector. Could you do a video where you use a panasonic 4k player and convert the HDR2020 signal to SDR2020, I am interested how the results would compare because projectors cannot really do hdr properly so its more of an advantage i have found to convert the HDR signal to SDR. You then get the full contrast range the projector can handle and you will still get 2020 colourspace to boot and you could do away with the processor altogether. Thanks
Thanks and I'll be getting this exact setup BUT.. isn't HDR10+ dynamic frame by frame? I know HDR10 is not
Good choice. Yes HDR 10+ is dynamic frame by frame. I still really like dolby vision the most. Hope you like and sub to the channel for me!
Just a note here to help those wanting HDR to work well on the LS12000. You can turn the HDR slider from default 8 down to 2, and Gamma to -1. This will make all those unbearably black scenes vibrant, yet visible. HDR is a tool, and it just seems to be too dark for me.
Sir does optical zoom 2.1x decreases the image quality or brightness in this projector... can u plsss mention.
If you zoom optical there is NO reduction in image quality. Please like and sub!
Sure sir. So is that the greatest advantage of this projector.....
Why did you get the vertex 2 rather than the cheaper hd Fury. I just have one source the apple tv I want to apply this to and was thinking of grabbing the HD Fury but curious if I am missing anything? Btw thanks for doing this. It's not massive but noticable better.
Its actually the Vertex 1... I am borrowing from a friend so I can determine if I like it enough to invest in the HDFury VRROOM. The vertex will work great with the apple tv! Hope you can like and subscribe
Hi I got the LS12000 earlier this month. I haven't fired it up yet because I am still finishing up my room. I am looking at getting HD Fury VRRoom. Do you know of any settings or maybe do a more in-depth vid? Thanks again for your help.
I have the VRRoom and I have some settings I can send you via Facebook. My page is @TheDaingeon so just reach out and let me know what devices you’re using and what you’re looking to achieve
Hope you like and sub to the channel
Was about to try that on Epson UB6050 but i don't know.. picture just seems brighter overall (colours and scenes, darker parts) But also raised black levels?- if you look at cinemascope black bars HDR 10 on the right seems to be better (darker)?!
Yeah it does show a bit brighter on the LLDV side and darker on the HDR10 side but I think it was just the camera. I really liked the details on the side using Vertex and DV. Thanks for the comment, please like and sub!
DV setting offers more control, the blacks are better and the image has more depth, and thats all I can see from the video. I want to say how nicely this projector
paints HDR end nicely saturated colors.
Thanks for the inspiration! I'm going to be setting up a similar setup with Epson LS11000 on a wall painted silver screen using Shield Pro and VRROOM! Liked and subbed! Please describe this process in more detail in another video
Great to hear others are interested in this. I just bought the vrroom and will make a video of the process with the LS12000. Thanks for the sub! Hope you liked the video and spread the word about the channel
@@thedaingeon I'd like to see how LLDV handles color curves that are easy to spot, such as title and credits. Does the text pop and the background left with deep blacks? Others are right about the fact that non DV displays will always render 10 bit color depth, and there's a point about going against the directors intention, but the way I see it should mean less hassle from the user and not have to use the HDR slider for every show/movie. It would be nice to see a 3 way comparison on HDR10+, LLDV HDR10+, and DV but there's no DV in the projector world to compare
I do not understand.The ls12000 is hdr10+ what is dynamic hdr like dolby vision.
Are you going to test different devices? Shield, Google tv, apple tv 4k, Xbox gaming?
Yes. The next video will be Xbox Series X DV gaming vs HDR10 gaming followed by Shield and GTv
Really appreciate the video ... from the forums we can tell there is a real improvement. What's your thoughts seeing it in real life ? What's the differences in this and the vertex 2? You have a similar setup to myself ..I've the 12000b and using the series x as the main media player .. did you try it with a 4k disc? Also what's your thoughts on vrroom ? As it does in theory all the vertex 2 does but adds 4k 120.
I think the vertex looks great! Definitely a nice difference from HDR10. I don’t have a 4K player that supports DV discs (XboxSX and PS5 don’t support) so the only content I have tested is streaming DV which looks awesome with the vertex. I don’t have the vertex 2 to compare but it seems like it’s only big difference is that it has an app and does not require just a pc plugged in to manipulate settings. I am interested in trying the Vrroom but don’t have one at this time. Vrroom would be great to try Halo DV at 4K120hz
Sorry probably stupid question. I have ordered an LS12000 and I have a denon Avr-x4700h receiver. My receiver has Dolby vision and hdmi 2.1 capability already. Would a Hdfury vroom add any benefit to my setup?
It will allow you to play content in LLDV so there is that, but the Vertex is rather expensive and the LS12000 already has HDR10+ which looks great too. Really up to you, but I enjoy DV content personally so I like messing with it
Can you do a hd fury video on the benq x3000i
Sure thing!
Did you get a chance to test the fury diva on the benq x3000i
@@leroywilliams1434 I should be getting to it in the next few days yes!
Greetings from india. I currently own Epson hc3800. Is it worth upgrading to ls12000b?
Welcome! Well the laser does have its advantage because it will last 20,000 hours or more and the picture quality and contrast are great especially with HDR10+ content. The LS12000 can handle HDMI 2.1 signals for fast gaming at a low latency 20ms and 4K 120hz. But it doesnt have 3D, its very larg and it costs $5k USD. I highly recommend it if you have the budget. Hope you like and subscribe!
Hi I have a epson 5040 running from pc rtx 3070ti and ps4 Pro my vertex was working fine I move the location and not sure but now I get no picture. Will your settings work for my setup I had HDR working before now without the vertex I can’t get the HDR setting on but I can get 4K resolution sorry for the long question. Any help greatly appreciated. Thanks
On the Vertex did you confirm that the EDID toggle is in the middle selection?
I tried I believe but I will hook now and get back to you. Thanks
😊
It’s saids no signal EDID not available
Here a picture I now this but no signal
INFO
백99. 299. 429 E12929 139 H02. 445위다. 로
EDID not available off or not connected
EASON EN EDID: CINCO 42O BE HDR ETEOES"***
4K59.933 420 BT2020 126 HDR 445MHz 1.4
I have this vertex barely getting around to trying to set it up, but a little lost on what settings I should be choosing for LLDV use only(no hdmi switching etc) any links or info you can provide would be appreciated. Also do you have to manually turn on and off the LLDV or is it automatic, I read after I purchased the vertex v1 that it isn’t automatic like the diva,vertex2,zoom or even the less expensive Arcana. Can you confirm since I don’t know if I should switch to the arcana if it’s a more set and forget automatic experience. Great content as always. Also I’m using a Optoma UHZ65LV laser 4k 5000 lumen not sure what nits you’d recommend, screen is SI Slate 5 1.2gain alr
Its honestly pretty easy once you follow the directions on the HDFury site to update the firmward get the GUI set up. Have you got that far yet? If so on the first tab of the GUI under Automix... check the following boxes (HDR10+, 2020, HLG, DV Force meta data and native). Then unselect automix and now check Custom select: then change both drop downs to (5- Custom default Sony A1 LLDV V2). Then select UPLOAD EDID. After you restart your projector and all devices then the basic LLDV settings should be working. Of course as you learn to use it you can try different things but this is the easiest way I found to get started! Hope this helps! Tell your friends and family to sub and like the channel!
How does the Vertex work in regards to tone mapping?
The HDfury Vertex doesn't tone map at all. It tricks the EDID so the source player uses LLDV which then adds the metadata and produces a HDR compatible signal out to the projector. The extra info in the data "acts like" dynamic tone mapping
@@thedaingeon okay, got it. Thanks for the explanation.
Get the new VRROOM, it tone maps everything.
@@3483maverick it does? I'll look into it. Thanks.
Will this work on 720p projector
You would have to ask HDFury support. Try giving them your projector model and info and they will probably verify if it is compatible. Hope you like and sub
To my opinion you should of used disc for your test with hdfury instead of streaming
Totally agree but the dang ps5 and series x don’t support dv so I need to buy the ub820 next 🙃
Forcing DV to a non DV display is messing up the intended tone mapping. Just because you are using a DV signal doesn’t mean it’s going to look as intended.
Yes I would agree, but it really does a great job improving the colors and range. Fun little toy to use for sure!
I agree 💯 David and definitely one of the biggest controversies in some of these online groups and sites , and heaven forbid you try to correct people with the truth, cause it's like talking to a brick wall.... lol 😂😂😂😂
@@thedaingeon the thing is that it doesn’t improve range or colour. The colourspace between HDR10 and DV are 100% identical. The dynamic range of your projector (or any projector) is BELOW HDR10. Adding DV dynamic range means absolutely nothing especially because the projector can’t even do a proper HDR10 to begin with.
@@DavidSusiloUnscripted not trying to steer anyone in the wrong direction, just showing off what the vertex can do and learn new techniques as I grow my knowledge of the hobby. Most important to me is that the image looks real good on screen. I can honestly say what’s happening between the vertex and ls1200 is really making content look good. Thanks again for your information and I’ll keep note of it going forward.
@@DavidSusiloUnscripted what would u prefer for enhancing the Image of the ls 12000?
Спасибо это чесный обзор!