Boeing 737 ILS CAT IIIa Autoland - PFD View
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 มิ.ย. 2012
- Letting the two autopilots do a practice landing on a CAT III ILS - well, not because its CAT III weather, but because you have to stay current in summertime ;) The Boeing 737-800 does nicely... Oh yeah, and this is obviously not a sim but the real deal :)
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For all the people talking about it being a 'hard' landing, think about this. The camera is zoomed in, on a small-ish display. Any type of movement after touchdown would be exaggerated due to the zoom level.
Nick Underwood are those people whom says “hard landin” pilots? They better to f off.
A ozono ñjspno zaoxaiauaaoa
@@adamgibiadam8010 ten minutes in FSX and a bunch of Airforceproud 95 videos
True but I have flown multiple CAT 2 and 3 approaches and the plane just slams it onto the ground safetly!
Well you can see how hard they land. It is on the right hand v/s needle. looks to be about 200ft. A 150fpm landing in real is a complete butter the passengers wont even feel it
Amazing amount of information displayed on 1 screen.
Well there are only 8 screens
Declutter that puppy
@@cofepaper9484 he is not talking about screen number. He is saying; ''Wow, one screen displays very big amount of information''.
In this case: PLUS HUNDRED (set minimum plus 100ft), that is a customer option, it could also call out APPROACHING MINIMUMS at the set minimum +80ft.
Cool video! Nice to see all the captions explaining the finer details.
wonderful! i had been 'experimenting around' with my PMDG Simulator version, and i am relieved that, 'all this isn't' quite so integrated or complex, meaning, my 'loaded approach' theory. (lol) very cool. successfully did a KBOS ILS rwy 4R in the sim last night, ensuring all the above mentioned steps were completed and, upon capturing LOC, then engaging "APPR" function, yes, got all the wonderful FMA annunciations. (Rollout, Flare, LAND3) too cool! thanks so much for your clarification
That is the selected radio altitude at which the 'MINIMUMS' callout will sound. For a CAT IIIA this is always set to 50ft radio altitude. If the minimums selector on the EFIS control panel is set to BARO this will display BARO and an altitude referenced to sea level at which the auto-callout will sound.
So much respect for pilots.
Absolutely, I will give you credit for it. Thank you
Flaps 30 or 40 may be used, depending on runway length, air density, winds on the ground, ect. Flaps 15 is the flap setting used for emergencies such as engine-out approaches. Flaps 40 means a slower approach, but higher fuel burn due to the added drag :)
Excellent vídeo. Here you can follow exactly each step of the final approach and G/S catch
Excellent... rewarding, thanks for the experience :-)
Though I have no experience with the real aircraft PMDG does really show you what all goes into performing a CAT iii. Just "flew" LOWW-LSZH followed the STAR and landed rwy14 ils. Good fun that was! :)
I forgot to congratulate you for this most execllent video. By the way, in my sim
LAND 3 is annunciated along with FLARE and ROLLOUT.
Then you are simulating a very recent 737NG with fail active autoland ;)
You certainly may! Its company policy, but usually the landing lights are on when entering a runway and then until 10,000ft. The wing lights are for ice inspection (some companies keep them on during turnarounds at the stand, too...), so they are used only when needed. The logo light is on at night on ground and below 10,000ft, off during daytime obviously. Beacon on before starting engines until shutdown - position lights always on - strobes only on a runway and in flight.
Looks fun, cant wait to try my hand at it. Until then I'll be teaching the ILS over and over and over
Nah, trust me, this is less fun than having a student fly an ILS by hand ;)
I fly this thing dude and ILS is easy......
I like the way the Glideslope is absolutely nailed. Wish I could do that in my sim (LOL)!!
That was excellent, very nice
Love the view!
i dont think you understand
oh hi from the future lol
I had already seen videos of autolands ( on B747 ) and it was very smooth...
Because the airport elevation is 1240 ft. Usually QNH is used, that means pressure at sea level, to set the barometric altimeter. In a few places like the former USSR QFE is still used which means all altimeters will show 0 on the runway.
Beautiful Job..
Very instructive video ! Thanks.
Great video.
Hi! Sorry for the late answer: I'll go down the list one by one...
The view selected on the EFIS control panel does not influence your approach, there are usually company SOPs which dictate which view modes are appropriate for which kind of approach. Usually MAP mode is the preferred option...
Because it is! The thing doesn't try to make a kiss landing but instead makes a proper 'firm' landing appropriate for a wet runway, too.
That depends a little on the descent profile, but you would first set flaps one at a speed as low as you can manage between the UP maneuvering speed and the placard speed of 250kts. Then flaps five, lowering the speed target to the flaps 5 maneuvering speed. You should have flaps five set before capturing the glideslope. Around 2000ft AGL gear down and flaps 15, again lowering the speed target to the actual flap maneuvering speed. Then finally landing flaps some time before 1000ft AGL. Stable.
very interresting ! thanks!
Yes just what I wanted to see
great video
This goes to my Favorites.
Flaps 40 in an autoland helps since it improves forward visbility in low-visibility conditions.
Can I ask you at what speeds do you deploy each flap setting? Because I know they have their speeds that you should not exceed but when do the pilots actually deploy 1 2 5 etc and at what speed and distance from the runway? Thanks and great video once again! :D
way to go nice job gentleman
All right, thanks for the answer (:-).
Greetings from Walter from Ulm (Germany)!
Thanks for explaining!
Perfect! I have a question! What does GPWS sounds calls when crossing 150ft at final Approach?
I did indeed inform them that we are doing a simulated CAT III approach... Not that it would be absolutely necessary though!
Nothing to do with the HGS, but rather with the way the autopilots will behave during an autoland if a failure occurs. Fail-operational means that no single failure will warrant a go-around since the system has sufficient redundancy to still fly the autoland.
Fail passive means that a failure will usually cause both autopilots to disengage but the airplane will be in trim - depending on the circumstances a manual landing or a go-around can be done manually.
Im not sure but I think the altimeter measures altitude depending on air pressure. So when they land, the plane is 376M above sea level, not ground level
That's great, thanks very much sir :)
I'd heard somewhere that 737's even up to the 737MAX do NOT have rollout... So there's no full on CATIIIb or Fail Active autoland possible on 73's (and the pilot I talked to said its due to the design being warmed over from the original 1960's 737-that it would cost too much to put in the equipment for the rollout function!). Feel free to correct this if you know!
My sleep deprived ass read the title and thought the ILS was straight up gonna meow
PMDG made it possible for me to have known that before I saw your comment. :P
Lovely approach into Stuttgart (EDDS) runway 25
*****
Yes that's right... the airport is 1276 feet AMSL
Not the Airport Elevation is necessary, but the ILS Ident ISTW and the Heading =D
Nope, the HGS is completely detached from the autoflight system in that respect, it is not necessary to set up anything on the HGS panel for an autoland if you don't want to use the HUD.
That said - the HUD is of limited use anyway, apart from slightly lower minimum visibility requirements on take-off and for approaches with 'Lower than Standard' (LTS) minima (obviously only if certified and published by the authorities)
Hi STDBYRUD....cool work here. question: to fly a HGS (Combiner Glass) AUTOLAND approach, must you have selected and loaded an 'actual' CAT 2 or 3 approach from the FMS Database ( 'Literally' ..one that displays the SAAAR and CAT3 Nomenclature printed on that specific "type" plate..) for us to realize and "See" the AUTOLAND, ROLLOUT and FLARE Annunciations on the FMA? or, conversely, could you still do all this, simply by tuning both freq's, CDI's, and engage AP? thanks so much!
nice video, but did you contact ATC for doing this?
Sure, I can try! What would you like to see?
The official statement is: Either use full automation or none, mixed modes can be confusing. So no A/T on landings like on the Airbuses ;)
Oh, and the LAND 3 is telling you that you have a fully functioning fail operational autoflight setup, a fail-passive 737 will display CMD as in this video.
CMD shouldn't be disconnected directly after touch down since it's designed to keep plane on centerline in low visibility condition as well as clear day ofc also.
Can all types of commercial aircraft perform autolands? That was pretty impressive tbh
Well, the plane cannot tell the difference, it will always attempt an autoland if you let it. Regardless it would be unwise to let it do its thing on a CAT I installation without protections in place...
ROLLOUT is a mode that only appears in the CAT IIIb installation. Instead of CMD these aircraft will show LAND 3 (or LAND 2 if you have had a previous failure).
Nice movie.
Gerne doch, Grüße zurück! ;)
....oh, one more thing then". aside from not needing to pair any particular CAT approach fetched from FMS, still assuming that setting "A111", Rwy Length, Elev, in the HGS panel, IS necessary to witness the AutoLand sequence? :) thx!~
Nice!
hello Stdbrud, the green "up" bug is our clean maneuvering speed, yes? meaning, we don't want to be any slower than THAT speed ( looks about 208 on the PFD) without some initial lift devices out. is this correct. then as we start tossing flaps down, the subsequent 'green' bugs that appear, are likewise, showing us "where" on the tape, to 'stay above' with ...."that" degree of flaps out? correct? thought i read this somewhere. thx!!
Hello, I'm a flight sim enthusiastic, I'm using the PMDG 737. I've seen two behaviors in autoland of my 737. The first one is like this one in your video, The single channel disappears after the A/P self-test around 1500ft AGL, then the CMD annouciate, and Flare arms. Another behavior is that after 1500ft AGL, Land3 will annouciate, both Flare and Rollout will arm. If you don't mind me asking, what do you do in a landing procedure that makes the 737 behave slightly different? Thanks!
Hi, great video! I make my own FMC for FS2004 simulator, and I'd like to use these flap speeds and bugs. If Vref is OK, my B738 has problems with flap up-1-5 maneuvering speeds. What was the landing weight? Peter
@STBYRUD, Nice video but some clarifications are needed on your description. "..stay current in summertime" is misleading. Each airline has its own SOP, but my former airline required a CAT II/III approach in CAT I conditions or better every 42 days. A 200 ft layer of fog laying at 50 ft AGL will render a cloudless day into CAT III. Because an airport also must maintain currency, ATC can ask anyone if they want to shoot an autoland, so the airport can re-certify their equipment. (Say yes if you can and they'll remember your name/voice and flight number next time you need a "favor" in vectoring you in) In this case, airplane, flight crew and airport get recurrent at the same time. On your pop ups, the "A/P trims the aircraft in case of a G/A" is also misleading. The A/P trims the airplane in all phases of flight. It happens more often on approach because the constant changes in power/speed and flight attitude to maintain FD guidance. And if you happen to go around, when you raise flaps to go around flaps, (25 or 15) you'll have to manually or auto trim anyway. As for the " real deal, not sim " comment in this particular view, no one could tell if it was the real thing or a Level D FFS. Great video nonetheless, no music, and the boxed areas you put on the PFD, will help future pilots, though the A/P should have stayed engaged longer to check the Rollout. Thanks for sharing.
Hi Javacup, thanks for the comment! As for currency - obviously a fog layer will necessitate LVO, but when do these usually occur? Thats right, in winter time ;) The current legislation in EU-OPS country is that each six months three LVO approaches should be flown, one of those should be in the real aircraft (the other two can be flown in the sim).
I have never heard of ATC requesting someone to do an autoland, on the contrary, if you do request an autoland with protections they have to increase separation and keep the protected areas clear of aircraft and ground vehicles - they'd rather we shoot a normal approach ;)
The A/P does trim the aircraft specifically in case of G/A below 400ft - of course during any phase of flight the A/P will keep the airplane in trim, but in this special case it will give it a nose up bias to aid in case of an automatic goaround. This is a feature unique (at least as far as I know) to the B737, you might not be familiar with it. The elevator authority of the autopilot is limited, so it needs this extra help to do a speedy rotation by itself.
You say the A/P should have stayed on longer to check the rollout - good luck trying that in a 737, all but the newest are (as I described earlier) fail passive and don't have a rudder servo - it is mandatory to disengage it right after touchdown since it will not keep you on the runway ;)
Landung 6:45 / 7:45 Uhr Lokalzeit nach 2:30h Flugzeit - das ging ja früh los!
keep your taxi light on until you are coming onto stand-then switch off so as not to blind the marshaller
Thx
question again! (lol!) if your flying an ILS in this thing, must we be in "Appr. Mode" map view ( displaying the actual ILS HSI depiction on the MFD Map View of a Needle Centered; remember, we're not in LNAV here, but rather LOC or Appr. Mode Autopilot) it seems to me, that it wouldn't be 'approach specific' to have an ILS Tuned, LOC and GS Captured, and we're still looking at an LNAV MAP depiction, correct? would the "company" also mandate this? thx!
That is the airport elevation, 400m is not really that high though!
You dont see the DME on the pfd in this kinda presicion approach :o ?
So if you're planning to land on a CAT I (normal ILS) runway you may perform a CAT II autoland? Am I understanding that correct?
Furthermore one question: why does the rolloutmode not arm?
Awesome video, But I got just one question... what is the number that is above the altitude indicator? 1709m
I presume that's the altitude in meters.
Nope, you can hear the autopilot wailer when it disengages after landing.
This is Stuttgart rwy 25 :) !!
Hello! Very intresting video for Commercial students pilot (like me :D )
I have a question, at a certain moment i was expected to see AP mode revert to Dual channel mode instead of single channel. Can you explain me why it reverted to CMD mode and what exactly means? Thank you very much.
Hello there! Happy to help if I can. The annunciation of CMD in the context of an automatic approach doesn't mean that the system has reverted, on the contrary, now both autopilots are flying the airplane. The newer serial numbers with fail active autopilots will annunciate LAND 3 instead of CMD. If you conduct an autoland and SINGLE CH continues to show you have to go around.
No reverse thrust? Lovely video!
Auto break
Most likely dry runway too.
I think you have to have reversers out for auto brake to work, they did call for “manual braking” after, so I think they did.
-a flight sim dude
Interesting how late the "flare" indication is shown on the display.
Was wondering what the rattling sound was then I remembered auto trim wheels turning.
Mike Price same with me :D
why b737 has so small pitch on glideslope? I saw many a320 videos, airbus maintain pitch 2-4 degrees. Flaps on b737 is more effective?
Why does it show 1240 ft on the PFD when your already on the ground ?
Is the elevation of the airport that high ?
MSL
dont understand
so pilots change the elevator position by moving the control yoke, right?
and "trim" also means varying the elevator position?
then why would they trim the aircraft in case there is an go-around?
wont it change the elevator position when they trim the aircraft??
Great
There is a RADIO 50 annunciation below the vertical mode annunciator box around 2:05. What does that indicate?
Always Manually landing softer and more professional 🛬
somethings wrong when it leaves you with more questions
WTF, did it drop like a stone just when it hit 100 on the altitude "wheel"?
I haven't flow a B737 for many years, but the nose up pitch trim introduced around 300ft if I am not wrong is not for the go around but rather to assist in the (automatic) flare. B737 has a natural pitch up tendency during go around with the increase of thrust required and nose down when power is reduced during flare for the touchdown. Has that changed? Thank you.
Flare mode is armed around 500ft before ground and the reposition of the horizontal stabilisier to nose up is around 400ft. And as you where thinking it is actually in order for a safe go around In probably the case that one of the 2 APs has suffered an error due to a malfunction. And then to ensure Avery fast nose-up aeroplane response as needed.
Looks like a typical B737 "crash" landing. Thought the auto pilots would have done better. The 747 auto land was smooth as glass.
No, this was -100fpm landing. The camera is zoomed in so the shaking is more noticeable.
Hi! Let us ignore the HGS first, it is hardly integrated into the rest of the avionics - the FMS does not know which ILS is a CAT II or III, neither do the NAV receivers. That means as you correctly say that as long you have the same ILS and the same course set on both sides as well as both autopilots on after you have captured the ILS it will do an autoland which will look the same whether on a CAT I or CAT III ILS. Have a look here for the HGS ops: bit.ly / USdvm8
why does the ALT read 376M after they landed? Or is this not the ALT?
It's real!
Why did you use flaps 40 for landing? I thought that was only for an emergency.
Whats your company's policy regarding autopilot and autothrottle disengage? Do you disengage A/T together with autopilot?
Why do you say GPWS that was the hundred? (radio alt: 150feet). Please help. I did not know what the reason for it to come.
How setup virtual cockpit. Please help? I set which panel?
The AOA meter turns into an AGL altitude.
Having AOA displayed is a customer option, if that is installed, then RA shows below the localizer deviation.
what is "Fail-OP" and "Fail Pass" mean, to do with the HGS? :/
Do you have to disconnect the A/P immediately on touchdown (even before nose gear touch) on fail passive planes? Thanks
Btw. do you know there is a copy of this vid on yt?
The autopilot will not disengage by itself, the books say that it should be disengaged on touchdown before the manual rollout. And no, I wasn't aware, care to send me a link via a message?
STBYRUD Thanks and you've already got the video I meant.
Technically you can autoland anywhere if there is an ILS, its just not a good idea to do this at a CAT 1 field. CAT 2 autolands though are not a problem.
Pilot complaint to maintenance: "Autoland working rough." Maintenance written response. "This airplane is not equipped with autoland.
I honestly don't remember, but probably not more than 5 knots or so...
please explain, what do the two yellow whiskers show in the pfd blue area just above the 10 degree mark. is that max pitch ?? for this phase of flight. they are shaped /// look like eyelashes.
They're stall margin eyebrows. If the pilot exceeds the pitch indicated at that speed then he will enter a stall condition.
The signal comes from the aircrafts stall management computers.
What happens hard landing?
cat 3 and single channel?