Don’t forget about the “fresh meat“ phenomenon. When you open Grindr in a new city, you get a lot of hits right away because you’re new and no one‘s ever seen you before. If you live there for a while, the number of hits goes down because people see you all the time. So don’t gauge your attractiveness on Grindr hits when you’re a tourist.
Absolutely this! I'm probably like a 4 to a 6 on an objective scale (bad body, almost 40, but cute face) and I get almost no messages where I am for the most part except for the handful of creepers or the people I'm already talking with long-term, but I'll get hit on a lot when I visit somewhere else.
I am with Ming. Japan is a totally different mindset… even with the “fresh meat syndrome”. Like what Andrew said (and that European guy he mentioned) as well… it is just Japan
This is how I feel as a "fat and old" guy every time I travel from Sweden. Body shaming and ageism is VERY strong here! In other countries I'm a "hot chubby daddy". And not just interesting as a daddy or fat fetish. People actually want to get to know me abroad. That was a rather new, bordering overwhelming thing to realise. That it's not me that is ugly. It's the Swedish gay culture that's ugly.
I'm from Europe (Italy) and I don't think that's a "Japan thing". In my experience it's quite the same everywhere. When you are new to a place or just visiting you get a lot of attention and a lot of messages on dating apps, but if you stay longer in the same place then you are not a novelty anymore and less and less people show interest. I shortly lived in Japan when I was a student and I had the same experience as anywhere else. I got a lot of attention when I first moved there, but after a few months the number of people hitting on me had already gone significantly down.
90% of that is the fresh meet effect. I am Japanese living in Tokyo and I feel almost invisible on grinder in Tokyo too. But I get non-stop messages during my vacations elsewhere. I agree that people in Tokyo aren't interested in other people which makes it harder to make connections with people here though. But isn't it more or less the same in any big cities? Love your channel by the way! ♡
This is so sad. Ming is an easy 7 or 8 out of 10 for his archetype, but he is in an area that doesn't appreciate his Looks. Worse, this has started to erode his personality. What a toxic environment! You love the culture and the country, but you might have to face the reality that you might have to look elsewhere if you want love. The longer you stay in an environment that doesn't appreciate you, the more happiness slips through your fingers.
The purpose of knowing each others love language is so you can show love in the way your partner needs it. It’s not for your partner to learn to be loved in your own love language.
@@northernskyinguh they said 7 or 8 if you *really* want to parse their comment. A 8/10+ is like almost perfect, sounds like you are a touch oversensitive…
This “I can’t with Japan anymore” feeling, for me, is constantly there watching the Boyfriend. The whole socialising and dating moved at a GLACIAL pace and the constant myriad of social cues and nuances interactions that you need to be conscious about is insane. I lived in Tokyo for a year as an exchange student and as much as I admired and loved the city and the people, I just couldn’t anymore 🥹 Ps. Hope y’all have a great time in BKK 🎉😝
Oh Meng... I LITERALLY always felt the same way while I was living in Vancouver. Just like Japan, Vancouver has a REAL SPECIAL WAY of making you feel extreeeeemely ugly. It wasn't until after I moved away did I realize that I wasn't actually ugly 😶🌫 You guys both deserve to be SEEEEEEN!! It really does break my heart to hear Andrew say that one of the reasons why he was really looking forward to going to a cruise was because he was looking forward to not being ignored... 😫😫 Oh gosh, GET OUTTA THEEERREEEEEE!!
I completely understand where you're coming from. I used to live in downtown Vancouver for over two decades before eventually relocating to the Côte d'Azur in France. To me, Vancouver always felt like one big high school. It’s worth noting that a lot of people aren’t originally from the city itself-many come from the Prairies, often bringing unrealistic expectations that seem to hold them back. For over a decade, I managed several bathhouses there, and I witnessed a lot. The gay scene was interesting-people were incredibly selective about who they hooked up with unless they were too far gone to care. Even when I started managing, the owner told me I’d suddenly become "popular" just because of my position. He wasn’t wrong. Within a week, people who wouldn’t even look at me on the street were suddenly trying to score VIP passes. It was both amusing and pathetic. Luckily, I had a solid group of genuine friends who kept me grounded. In Vancouver, unless you meet their idea of perfection-looks, job, education-you’re automatically seen as lower on the social ladder. Even those who *do* find their "perfect person" often hesitate, thinking, *If I got him so easily, there must be something even better just around the corner.* I've found life in France is far easier for meeting people and having more genuine connections. But also with Grindr here, as others have mentioned, if you are new to the app in that area and/or are a tourist, you will get a lot more hits at first.
I really enjoy how the channel of you guys puts on the table the discussion on things that many of us gay in Japan feel. Thanks for sharing and discussing about it. I hope it can help people understanding what to expect when coming here.
That's tough to hear :( I think putting yourself in public spaces where you're constantly being judged as "do-able" or not leads to a lot of negative feelings when facing a ton of rejection. I'm happy to see the positivity in this comment section and I absolutely agree that the both of you are very attractive. Andrew is really rocking that tank top too!
I grew up in a country where I felt I did not fit “the beauty standard. At a younger age it was upsetting and for a variety of reasons I moved at 24yo. At 41yo, after much healing, I accepted who I am, outside&inside. From where I sit, you both appear gorgeous, interesting, funny and charming men but ultimately I wonder if finding a way of letting the outside validation weigh less than our own love for ourselves may be the way to go. But then again, my experience is likely very different from that of others. Thanks for sharing your feeling and thoughts ❤
I was in KL in 2022 and switched on Grindr just out of curiosity and I too got absolutely bombarded by guys who wanted, mostly, sex or in some cases to meet for coffee and a chat but it was very difficult to have conversations because every 20 seconds I would get a new chat or tap. Eventually I was in such high demand that I only replied to the really cute guys and I couldn't believe these really cute guys wanted my body which is old and overweight, although I don't think I look too bad for my age. But here in Ireland it is rare I get interest from super hot guys. Meng is at least and 8 out of 10 from my perspective so Japanese gay men clearly have bad eye sight! lol
I understand how you feel. We're all looking for some validation in life, always wondering if there's anything we can change in ourselves to make us more attractive. LOL at the Volcano/Shelter moment. On a side note, I gotta say I loved the Janet-Jackson-nip-slip-wardrobe from Andrew
First, you are adorable. Never change. Second, anyone in a new area will get more attention because they are new. So, if you go somewhere and then come back to home, you may feel less popular because you are back in your own neighborhood. I am not saying this to downplay how you feel, I can imagine it sucks and you never want to feel bad about yourself. And I'm sorry that you are feeling that way. But hopefully adding this context will make you feel better
You’re adorable Meng. ❤️ Exactly same experience for me too. I think homogeneous society leads to homogeneous beauty standards. When I moved here I was a twink- and got very little interest. I put on some muscle and facial over the years and was treated completely differently.
😁The way you talk about Tokyo makes me think of the stinger scene from Community S6E3: "You think that I am the enemy because I am the edge of your world, but when your eyes move past me, they will weep. Tokyo is a machine. Caked in flesh, running on blood. I reduce you? You will know true reduction. You will be as small as me."
I don't know... all this celebration of superficiality and exclusion. I'm 68 and as I got older I realized it was all such a waste of time and energy. It's the people who are not bothered by the noise and go their own way that seem to really make it in life. BTW... Meng, you are adorable.
To those talking about the fresh meat phenomenon, I know from experience of having traveled extensively around the world and having lived in and frequently visited Japan, that Japan is an entirely different universe for hookups. Like Meng, I have felt overwhelmed the moment I open any of the apps in various cities in Asia, North America, Europe and Oceania. I'm an ok looking, average body GWM bottom. On my most recent trip to Japan this year it was almost complete silence on the apps in Tokyo and what attention I did get was mostly from other gaijin. This was on multiple apps including 9Mon which is big in Japan and mentioning that I can speak some Japanese in my profile. Luckily one tall, handsome guy was into me and we had a great time. But that was just one hookup that materialized in a week in Tokyo. I wasn't actively pursuing sex, but if I wanted more I would have had to try much much harder, just like Andrew says.
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I can absolutely relate to you guys and agree that it is a Japan thing. Having traveled to almost 40 countries by now, I definitely feel a different "vibe" in each place and I can quickly tell if I'm gonna be popular there or not. I saw some people here in the comments mentioning the "fresh meat" phenomenon, but I disagree. It's more to do with local beauty standards, and also with what's available locally and the local mentality. I love Japan for a bunch of different reasons, but it ALWAYS makes me feel lonely and unwanted. It's kind of a toxic relationship. 😂
A great example of this can also be seen in the show, "The Boyfriend." IMO Taeheon is an absolutely beautiful man but NO ONE picked him?! Everyone was going after Kazuto who fits perfectly the typical Japanese male standard of beauty. Gensei is also another great example.
I love your chatty videos. It’s always cozy and y’all are funny. Nice to see Meng in his JETSETTING Barbie Era. P.S. Meng, you’re absolutely fabulous ❤
I hear you Meng, I live in Vancouver, Canada, and I feel really ugly and undesirable. I message guys in my local area all the time but I never get a response and if I do it’s half-assed 🤷♂️ . I’d like to think I’m average (6/10). I don’t use Grindr, but I do use apps like Scruff and Jack’d where you can message guys from around the world. A lot of the guys who message are from the US. Infact, when I travel to the USA or Southeast Asia my dating apps blow up 😂 Maybe it’s not just a Japan thing but a global phenomenon.
I'm so surprised that you both never mentioned Thai guys or Bangkok on your shows while many asian gay guys ,including Japanese guys , fly and spend a lot of money just to have a good time here. Thailand provides not only fun places and shopping ,yet you can luck out with many cute guys ranging from locals to visitors from other countries.( in the same time with U. ) Give more attention to Bangkok pls Meng & Andrew!🎉
I just came back from a 12 day trip to Tokyo and it was interesting. It was my first time in Japan, i'm a white man, i certainly get some kind of attention back at home, although i never felt more invisible in Japan. I think i can count on one hand the amount of eye contact i've had with anybody walking down the street. I think this is part of the "don't incovenience people" culture for sure as i've notice Japanese people don't tend to stare a lot, which can be very much a good thing in some context. I noticed the difference right away when i got back home and was waiting for my luggages at the carousel, how people here stare way more. On dating apps, the attention i was getting was definetly more from "world traveler" types. A few locals but i didn't engage with anyone as i'm not really into hookups, i was more just looking at the menu but definetly the attention was underwhelming.
I agree with Andrew, that dating life is just one facet of our lives. Especially as foreigners, it is not so simple to connect with locals, and I say this as someone who lived in 3 countries. I use my leisure time to develop deeper friendships and pursue personal interests. A relationship is not my end goal in life. Hope you find what you are looking for 😊 Btw, I am in Kyoto now, and the fresh meat syndrome is not working for me 😂😂😂
The desire to find the love of life, a life partner, someone you can rely on and go together is deeply imprinted in every human being, it is our psychology and that's it. The fact that you complain about the lack of possibilities, chances, is not a "problem", the real problem is to be somewhere you are not wanted. For me, this is a matter for a psychologist-therapist, something to solve. The first basic thing is "putting yourself in a situation (group, country) in which you have less chance for happiness and fullness of life". This is to be solved, not rationalized "that it is not so bad".
It's not just his looks that are attractive, but as you said he is sweet, and also kind, friendly, has a great attitude and personality, but that is non-existent in hook up culture. Unless you chat with someone for a long time, they generally have no idea how you are as a person.
Trust me, I felt the same way too 2 years ago when I first visited Japan. I was there for 3 months and I was disappointed and felt invisible. And I’m going back this weekend but this time around I’m just gonna enjoy the food and scenery. Japanese men are just so reserved. My gaydar won’t work properly in your county 😂
It’s funny because before living in Tokyo I used to live in Seoul and I feel like it’s much much worse over there. Guys are way more colder. I think something to keep in mind is the difference between living and visiting and those experiences might be similar in different countries. But don’t feel ugly you’re so hot 😭
That's the thing that stood out for me. I was in Osaka in 2011 and I normally get plenty of attention on Grindr. There were so many men, but no one reached out. Just one guy and he was a foreigner. It made me doubt myself so much. But in for example Bali, my Grindr exploded.
#freethetit. BTW I totally agree about Taiwan. They are so friendly and coming from SG where you might as well become a monk after 35, I feel like gosh, is this what feeling attractive feels like?! I am practically invisible in my own country.
I'm coming to Tokyo this weekend. I was there in May and didn't expect to be spoken to at all being Afro-Latino. While my phone was not exploding, Japanese locals did write me, or at least tried to. A few tried speaking to me at Eagle Blue, the language stopped them. Lots of girls in Ni Chome spoke to me. I was very popular at 24 because no one had to speak to me at all. I'm just praying at this point I find Kazuto from The Boyfriend and he kinda falls in love with me. A boy can dream.
Just saw the part of "got in Vulcano"... now I wanna know, how can we enter there? Cause The time I tried, geeeez, I didn't even saw an opening that I could call a door. Give us hints lol
I felt the culture shock when I went to Florida. I get it's a totally different country but I felt very much like fresh meat. Was nice but overwhelming at the same time x
You guys remind me of my single days LOL I think when it comes to hook ups or even finding love, its a numbers game. While it can be frustrating when you go out and don't get any attention, and while it can be hard to face rejection, in the end it comes down to finding the right person among all that noise. Good luck! Hope you guys find what you are looking for, hopefully in Japan. (Maybe it is time to get out of Tokyo to seek love! Maybe Tokyo is the problem!)
Not gonna lie, it’s comforting to know as a 6’3 black bear who is ignored in most american gay scenes, that it’s a bit more universal. Even for thin handsome white and asian guys such as yourselves. I will say I feel beautiful in Tokyo. I get attention, my hotline blings, and I just feel more sociable among strangers. Question: when you have feelings of being ignored…are you in these circuit parties or bathhouses? Really pay attention to WHERE you are when you feel these things, and don’t go there. Applauding getting into a club that excludes people based on body size and has rejected you twice is WILD outside of your world. Screw Volcano! Lol we’re looking for something a bit less shallow…are we not?
I think this type of thing happens everywhere, and the reality of it is that EVERYONE is picky. I've experienced it myself. I went to seattle in summer 2024, and same thing everyone wanted right now to hook up.
In my country, we call this "new chicken", everyone is interested in the "new chicken" until you blend in and become one of us. Then you become part of the communities and experience the "average man's life" again.
I have found that when you are in a place where you are the minority, you will be noticed. This can be good or bad, but it is a natural occurrence. I am an old white guy who spent two weeks in a smaller city in the Philippines in July. No matter where we went, I was noticed. I was taller, paler, blonde/gray hair than the majority of the population. It was nice to have others interested in me and at the same time uncomfortable when many would just stare at me. If you blend in with those around you it can make you feel unwanted, but really it just means you have to try harder to stand out.
I don’t understand what happen here in Japan about it, because I feel the same as you do! I try to think that’s because I don’t have a friendly face or I have a mad face and they feel afraid to talk to me or message me, so I feel better with this situation. And sometimes they just don’t feel confortable to talk in another language or they have no self-esteem or courage to talk with foreigner. I really don’t know 🤭🤣
I have never travelled anywhere, in the US or abroad (including Japan), where my apps didn't go off as soon as i got there. A fresh face and probably a tourist so no strings.
It surprises me that we move as a group, that our choices and behaviors are group, and that we change simply by frequenting one or another club. I don't judge it; I just take it into account so as not to do it.
If you stay long enough in Korea or Singapore or wherever people will stop messaging you too. That’s just very shallow observation but I think easy way to know is move there and live for a few years.
Guys - Kudos on having this vulnerable, interesting, and relatable conversation about beauty standards and the challenges of dating in Japan vs. other countries.
Ming is a 7 easy - they say go to where your appreciate there was a Chinese female comedian who said something along the lines of in China she was “fat” and “ugly” but in America she’s a 7/8
Agree with @passatboi - the fresh meat phenomenon is a thing but I know where Meng is coming from. Living in the UK as a bear who prefers slimmer guys, I am a very niche proposition. In Japan my apps explode with interest. For the record Meng - I know you like slender men too - but you're gorgeous! Don't EVER rate yourself that low x
As an American who lived in KL for 3 years before amazing city. It's probably time to leave Japan and experience living somewhere else. Meng is easy an 8 he's cute and with those glasses on look out! There is no harm in looking for a job and trying another country for 1-3 years.
I find this very interesting. I have the same feeling as well living in London that has a large gay population. Its mostly me contacting people. Then after a couple messages out of the blue your ghosted.
Could it be more of a Japanese [gay] culture thing? Do they act this way towards other people of comparable attractiveness (because probably the top 1% attractive people get special treatment anywhere)?
I do not know... I am aware that this is just a fun conversation... but to be honest, I would rather feel lonely and ugly in Japan than anywhere else. It really depends on your personality, but being gay can feel freeking lonely anywhere you go. I have reached a point in my life where validation from others do not mean anything anymore. I could not care less if people find me attractive. Of course this extreme attitude has consequences, in the form of being lonely, so probably a balance of being more proactive should be more advisable... but it just takes a lot of energy. Anyways, I do not know Japan but I do know KL. And yes, it might feel more "welcoming" at the beginning but from my experience it is just an illusion... after a while, every relationship feels fake, shallow, and the result of some kind of ulterior interest. Again, this is my opinion, but I am also a person who does not like clubs, bath houses, alcohol, ... so go figure...
Meng's "What do they look like?" to Andrew regarding Taiwanese men preference is giving very Shangela "What is my look and what is your look" prelude to sugar daddy monologue.
For Chinese gay men, if you are a top, you need to be tall. If you are a bottom, short is fine. Preferable even. The tops come for Thai bottoms all the time. xD
I echo Meng's perspective. When I am in China, I am called tall and fat like a billboard. When I am in the USA, I am a curvy pretty girl. I get hit on even walking on the street. lol
20 to 30 years old Taiwanes here. I think 10:39 is a pretty precies description, Taiwanese gay tend to be only with people who look like them. It is not only in appearance but also in mindset. I even think the "gay diversity" is much less here than in Japan. Whatever, I do notice both of you are getting bulky
Its a cultural thing...Japanese men tend to be the same not just in Japan but any country, its rare thay they get out of that box which is sad since it affects them more than they realize and more than anyone else.
I wonder - how Prep culture is in Japan? As Filipino-American, In the Philippines, its accessible but for 💸💸💸 and in San Francisco, its almost always free.
Have a conversation, yes, but it’s not worthy of turning it into clickbait/ragebait (as the title & thumbnail suggest). We are reasonable people, not slaves to emotional infantilism.
Paging Dr. Freud! Two questions: Do your Japanese friends get a lot of hits on Grindr? Of the many hits you got on Grindr while traveling, how many would you actually consider hooking up with? Anyway, you're gorgeous. I hope you find the love you seek. :)
Though I will say though, there is always a stronger "fresh meat" effect when it comes to gays travelling. In general i feel like you will always be the "hot shit" the first night or two in a new country, because gays are ALWAYS looking for new people haha. Thats not to say that the environment in those new places arent more tailored to you and that its just rose-tinted glasses, but it is something to be aware of aaahaahah
Another story is - on the day you are leaving a city, then you get all the hot guys wanting to connect. when you are checking out of hotel, on way to airport or something!
Every country / culture has its bright side and dark side. The media (from main stream media to social media) has all been singing praise for Japan that most people are just led to believe its a uotpia. As a result, it becoems such a 'it girl' that everywhere u turn, people all seem to want to visit Japan or even live there. I have lots of Japanese freinds; a big majority of those who live there want to leave, and those who live abroad have no intnetion to move back. That got to tell you something.
Be gentle with yourself without pity ourself is hard😅 I think is a leeson of humbleness when you don't fit the beauty standard of other country...I mean people out of the beauty hegemony often have the feel of not being part of something but grow to understand that what works for someone it May not for everyone and that don't make you less. Some people learn that in their very own country or home while other have to learn it somewhere else. Also Japanese people is hard to aproach to reach and stablish a bond just by their culture rather than just the beauty standard.
I feel I MUST mention the elephant in the room... that is obviously not a reference to size! I think it is age. Sadly, this is just the wheel of life. For, being popular, sort after, it all grinds to a halt eventually, as you start showing age, you'd agree with that wouldn't you? You've made references to not wanting anything to do with older guys, haven't you? The age rejection thing is more so if you are 'average', or 'normal' and especially if you are 'plain' or ugly. One thing I found interesting, two good looking Japanese guys picked me up in Sydney, and we had great fun, and they had BIG stingers too, both wanted a top. And, I had an ongoing 'thing' with a guy in Japan online, he had a whopper too! So, I don't know, maybe gay Japanese in Japan feel more constricted there by their long held traditions and preferences? Certainly not been my experience outside of Japan. 😎👌
I think you guys are right that the shyness of people in areas is a major factor and I get that feeling of being outcast too. As someone else said, the "fresh meat" phenomenon is HUGE especially in areas which have a limited gay population or where there aren't many tourists. I think it's important to not gauge self worth from the usage of these apps. You're hot Meng, be confident! BTW, I love your guys work a lot but using AI images is a bit cheap looking (and morally dubious). You deserve better.
2:27 Lol as a KLite I have the same experience. I don't use Grindr very much so whenever I pop up in there the notifcations go crazy. I don't find myself that attractive... Oerhaps people here are not that picky or have a different standards of beauty, idk.
Im okay "popular" here .. but japanese people I've met, told me i would be very popular in japan 😅 ... So i guess looking beefy/stocky is popular there hahah.. i will visit someday,..and will see for myself hahah
I think you may be giving up too much control over your sense of self-worth to your environment and to the culture that you currently find yourself in. There is nothing more attractive to me than someone who is comfortable in their own skin and does not give a f%$# what anyone else thinks about them. I find that (attitude) profoundly sexy! I think that the secret to attracting what we want is to love ourselves first. I think you both are awesome!
![[Live สด] การออกรางวัลสลากกินแบ่งรัฐบาล งวดวันที่ 16 ธันวาคม 2567](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/dNTiBBthKgQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Don’t forget about the “fresh meat“ phenomenon. When you open Grindr in a new city, you get a lot of hits right away because you’re new and no one‘s ever seen you before. If you live there for a while, the number of hits goes down because people see you all the time. So don’t gauge your attractiveness on Grindr hits when you’re a tourist.
Absolutely this! I'm probably like a 4 to a 6 on an objective scale (bad body, almost 40, but cute face) and I get almost no messages where I am for the most part except for the handful of creepers or the people I'm already talking with long-term, but I'll get hit on a lot when I visit somewhere else.
I am with Ming. Japan is a totally different mindset… even with the “fresh meat syndrome”. Like what Andrew said (and that European guy he mentioned) as well… it is just Japan
that is right. illusion!
Except he was also new to Japan at some point too, so he would remember what it was like jumping on the grid there as a "fresh" guy too.
@@Asterious_JP he was in a serious relationship when he moved to Japan.
Meng is a SMOKESHOW. He is so handsome and he has such a sweet personality. It's so sad that his self-esteem was damaged.
This is how I feel as a "fat and old" guy every time I travel from Sweden. Body shaming and ageism is VERY strong here! In other countries I'm a "hot chubby daddy". And not just interesting as a daddy or fat fetish. People actually want to get to know me abroad. That was a rather new, bordering overwhelming thing to realise. That it's not me that is ugly. It's the Swedish gay culture that's ugly.
I mean Sweden sets the Bar really high in terms of looks.
@@Caprifool I reckon we don't need to be attractive to everyone. Just those few who are special to us 👍
I'm from Europe (Italy) and I don't think that's a "Japan thing". In my experience it's quite the same everywhere. When you are new to a place or just visiting you get a lot of attention and a lot of messages on dating apps, but if you stay longer in the same place then you are not a novelty anymore and less and less people show interest. I shortly lived in Japan when I was a student and I had the same experience as anywhere else. I got a lot of attention when I first moved there, but after a few months the number of people hitting on me had already gone significantly down.
90% of that is the fresh meet effect. I am Japanese living in Tokyo and I feel almost invisible on grinder in Tokyo too. But I get non-stop messages during my vacations elsewhere. I agree that people in Tokyo aren't interested in other people which makes it harder to make connections with people here though. But isn't it more or less the same in any big cities?
Love your channel by the way! ♡
Dang! Andrew is getting ripped! Guns!
This is so sad. Ming is an easy 7 or 8 out of 10 for his archetype, but he is in an area that doesn't appreciate his Looks. Worse, this has started to erode his personality. What a toxic environment! You love the culture and the country, but you might have to face the reality that you might have to look elsewhere if you want love. The longer you stay in an environment that doesn't appreciate you, the more happiness slips through your fingers.
Sad reality but hope you'll find your love soon Meng keep it up✌️
The purpose of knowing each others love language is so you can show love in the way your partner needs it. It’s not for your partner to learn to be loved in your own love language.
'7 out of 10 for his archetype' is not remotely a compliment and yet this has 41 likes? ugh
@@northernskying 5 is average, A 6 is above average and a 7 is a good looking person. 7’s and up can literally model, being a 7 is not bad lol.
@@northernskyinguh they said 7 or 8 if you *really* want to parse their comment. A 8/10+ is like almost perfect, sounds like you are a touch oversensitive…
This “I can’t with Japan anymore” feeling, for me, is constantly there watching the Boyfriend. The whole socialising and dating moved at a GLACIAL pace and the constant myriad of social cues and nuances interactions that you need to be conscious about is insane. I lived in Tokyo for a year as an exchange student and as much as I admired and loved the city and the people, I just couldn’t anymore 🥹
Ps. Hope y’all have a great time in BKK 🎉😝
THIS! Watching The Boyfriend made me realize this is just how Japanese gays work. So frustrating
Japanese gays are closer in their cultural situation to gays in the middle east than they are to those in the west.
Oh Meng... I LITERALLY always felt the same way while I was living in Vancouver. Just like Japan, Vancouver has a REAL SPECIAL WAY of making you feel extreeeeemely ugly. It wasn't until after I moved away did I realize that I wasn't actually ugly 😶🌫 You guys both deserve to be SEEEEEEN!! It really does break my heart to hear Andrew say that one of the reasons why he was really looking forward to going to a cruise was because he was looking forward to not being ignored... 😫😫 Oh gosh, GET OUTTA THEEERREEEEEE!!
I completely understand where you're coming from. I used to live in downtown Vancouver for over two decades before eventually relocating to the Côte d'Azur in France.
To me, Vancouver always felt like one big high school. It’s worth noting that a lot of people aren’t originally from the city itself-many come from the Prairies, often bringing unrealistic expectations that seem to hold them back.
For over a decade, I managed several bathhouses there, and I witnessed a lot. The gay scene was interesting-people were incredibly selective about who they hooked up with unless they were too far gone to care. Even when I started managing, the owner told me I’d suddenly become "popular" just because of my position. He wasn’t wrong. Within a week, people who wouldn’t even look at me on the street were suddenly trying to score VIP passes. It was both amusing and pathetic. Luckily, I had a solid group of genuine friends who kept me grounded.
In Vancouver, unless you meet their idea of perfection-looks, job, education-you’re automatically seen as lower on the social ladder. Even those who *do* find their "perfect person" often hesitate, thinking, *If I got him so easily, there must be something even better just around the corner.*
I've found life in France is far easier for meeting people and having more genuine connections.
But also with Grindr here, as others have mentioned, if you are new to the app in that area and/or are a tourist, you will get a lot more hits at first.
I felt the same way, visiting Vancouver. Totally! Luckily, I found another visitor and we had our fun together instead...
I really enjoy how the channel of you guys puts on the table the discussion on things that many of us gay in Japan feel. Thanks for sharing and discussing about it. I hope it can help people understanding what to expect when coming here.
That's tough to hear :( I think putting yourself in public spaces where you're constantly being judged as "do-able" or not leads to a lot of negative feelings when facing a ton of rejection. I'm happy to see the positivity in this comment section and I absolutely agree that the both of you are very attractive. Andrew is really rocking that tank top too!
I grew up in a country where I felt I did not fit “the beauty standard. At a younger age it was upsetting and for a variety of reasons I moved at 24yo. At 41yo, after much healing, I accepted who I am, outside&inside. From where I sit, you both appear gorgeous, interesting, funny and charming men but ultimately I wonder if finding a way of letting the outside validation weigh less than our own love for ourselves may be the way to go. But then again, my experience is likely very different from that of others. Thanks for sharing your feeling and thoughts ❤
I was in KL in 2022 and switched on Grindr just out of curiosity and I too got absolutely bombarded by guys who wanted, mostly, sex or in some cases to meet for coffee and a chat but it was very difficult to have conversations because every 20 seconds I would get a new chat or tap. Eventually I was in such high demand that I only replied to the really cute guys and I couldn't believe these really cute guys wanted my body which is old and overweight, although I don't think I look too bad for my age. But here in Ireland it is rare I get interest from super hot guys. Meng is at least and 8 out of 10 from my perspective so Japanese gay men clearly have bad eye sight! lol
Andrew's guns!!! So unfair! I've been lifting for years and still no results :'( And that sideboob situation, omg
I understand how you feel. We're all looking for some validation in life, always wondering if there's anything we can change in ourselves to make us more attractive.
LOL at the Volcano/Shelter moment.
On a side note, I gotta say I loved the Janet-Jackson-nip-slip-wardrobe from Andrew
First, you are adorable. Never change.
Second, anyone in a new area will get more attention because they are new. So, if you go somewhere and then come back to home, you may feel less popular because you are back in your own neighborhood.
I am not saying this to downplay how you feel, I can imagine it sucks and you never want to feel bad about yourself. And I'm sorry that you are feeling that way. But hopefully adding this context will make you feel better
You’re adorable Meng. ❤️ Exactly same experience for me too. I think homogeneous society leads to homogeneous beauty standards. When I moved here I was a twink- and got very little interest. I put on some muscle and facial over the years and was treated completely differently.
❤ for Meng. I love that you're getting the attention you're worthy of
😁The way you talk about Tokyo makes me think of the stinger scene from Community S6E3:
"You think that I am the enemy because I am the edge of your world, but when your eyes move past me, they will weep. Tokyo is a machine. Caked in flesh, running on blood. I reduce you? You will know true reduction. You will be as small as me."
I don't know... all this celebration of superficiality and exclusion. I'm 68 and as I got older I realized it was all such a waste of time and energy. It's the people who are not bothered by the noise and go their own way that seem to really make it in life. BTW... Meng, you are adorable.
You are amazing Meng. 🔥
To those talking about the fresh meat phenomenon, I know from experience of having traveled extensively around the world and having lived in and frequently visited Japan, that Japan is an entirely different universe for hookups. Like Meng, I have felt overwhelmed the moment I open any of the apps in various cities in Asia, North America, Europe and Oceania. I'm an ok looking, average body GWM bottom. On my most recent trip to Japan this year it was almost complete silence on the apps in Tokyo and what attention I did get was mostly from other gaijin. This was on multiple apps including 9Mon which is big in Japan and mentioning that I can speak some Japanese in my profile. Luckily one tall, handsome guy was into me and we had a great time. But that was just one hookup that materialized in a week in Tokyo. I wasn't actively pursuing sex, but if I wanted more I would have had to try much much harder, just like Andrew says.
I can absolutely relate to you guys and agree that it is a Japan thing. Having traveled to almost 40 countries by now, I definitely feel a different "vibe" in each place and I can quickly tell if I'm gonna be popular there or not. I saw some people here in the comments mentioning the "fresh meat" phenomenon, but I disagree. It's more to do with local beauty standards, and also with what's available locally and the local mentality. I love Japan for a bunch of different reasons, but it ALWAYS makes me feel lonely and unwanted. It's kind of a toxic relationship. 😂
A great example of this can also be seen in the show, "The Boyfriend." IMO Taeheon is an absolutely beautiful man but NO ONE picked him?! Everyone was going after Kazuto who fits perfectly the typical Japanese male standard of beauty. Gensei is also another great example.
But Kazuto is so protective and you would never end up having more than a few nights with such person
I love your chatty videos. It’s always cozy and y’all are funny. Nice to see Meng in his JETSETTING Barbie Era.
P.S. Meng, you’re absolutely fabulous ❤
Hey Andrew, you do know that it's illegal to own guns like that in Japan, right? >
If I saw meng on grindr it would be a instant “hello”. Alas I didn’t when I was over.
I hear you Meng, I live in Vancouver, Canada, and I feel really ugly and undesirable. I message guys in my local area all the time but I never get a response and if I do it’s half-assed 🤷♂️ .
I’d like to think I’m average (6/10). I don’t use Grindr, but I do use apps like Scruff and Jack’d where you can message guys from around the world. A lot of the guys who message are from the US. Infact, when I travel to the USA or Southeast Asia my dating apps blow up 😂
Maybe it’s not just a Japan thing but a global phenomenon.
I'm so surprised that you both never mentioned Thai guys or Bangkok on your shows while many asian gay guys ,including Japanese guys , fly and spend a lot of money just to have a good time here. Thailand provides not only fun places and shopping ,yet you can luck out with many cute guys ranging from locals to visitors from other countries.( in the same time with U. )
Give more attention to Bangkok pls Meng & Andrew!🎉
Agree, Bangkok is so good is dangerous hahaha
I just came back from a 12 day trip to Tokyo and it was interesting. It was my first time in Japan, i'm a white man, i certainly get some kind of attention back at home, although i never felt more invisible in Japan. I think i can count on one hand the amount of eye contact i've had with anybody walking down the street. I think this is part of the "don't incovenience people" culture for sure as i've notice Japanese people don't tend to stare a lot, which can be very much a good thing in some context. I noticed the difference right away when i got back home and was waiting for my luggages at the carousel, how people here stare way more. On dating apps, the attention i was getting was definetly more from "world traveler" types. A few locals but i didn't engage with anyone as i'm not really into hookups, i was more just looking at the menu but definetly the attention was underwhelming.
Oh Meng, you’ve finally realised what I’ve known for years… you’re GORGEOUS! ❤️
I agree with Andrew, that dating life is just one facet of our lives. Especially as foreigners, it is not so simple to connect with locals, and I say this as someone who lived in 3 countries. I use my leisure time to develop deeper friendships and pursue personal interests. A relationship is not my end goal in life. Hope you find what you are looking for 😊
Btw, I am in Kyoto now, and the fresh meat syndrome is not working for me 😂😂😂
Works in most places but Japan hahhaa
Meng you are absolutely adorable. Don't let the others determine your beauty. It is within as well as on the outside. Love yourself first.❤
The desire to find the love of life, a life partner, someone you can rely on and go together is deeply imprinted in every human being, it is our psychology and that's it. The fact that you complain about the lack of possibilities, chances, is not a "problem", the real problem is to be somewhere you are not wanted. For me, this is a matter for a psychologist-therapist, something to solve. The first basic thing is "putting yourself in a situation (group, country) in which you have less chance for happiness and fullness of life". This is to be solved, not rationalized "that it is not so bad".
Yeah Meng is hot AF. A heartstopper and the sweetest guy. Next time you’re in LA…
It's not just his looks that are attractive, but as you said he is sweet, and also kind, friendly, has a great attitude and personality, but that is non-existent in hook up culture. Unless you chat with someone for a long time, they generally have no idea how you are as a person.
Meng don't let others make you feel bad about yourself. Your sweet, kind and very handsome....cute and sexy.
Trust me, I felt the same way too 2 years ago when I first visited Japan. I was there for 3 months and I was disappointed and felt invisible. And I’m going back this weekend but this time around I’m just gonna enjoy the food and scenery. Japanese men are just so reserved. My gaydar won’t work properly in your county 😂
It’s funny because before living in Tokyo I used to live in Seoul and I feel like it’s much much worse over there. Guys are way more colder. I think something to keep in mind is the difference between living and visiting and those experiences might be similar in different countries. But don’t feel ugly you’re so hot 😭
That's the thing that stood out for me. I was in Osaka in 2011 and I normally get plenty of attention on Grindr. There were so many men, but no one reached out. Just one guy and he was a foreigner. It made me doubt myself so much. But in for example Bali, my Grindr exploded.
#freethetit. BTW I totally agree about Taiwan. They are so friendly and coming from SG where you might as well become a monk after 35, I feel like gosh, is this what feeling attractive feels like?! I am practically invisible in my own country.
I'm coming to Tokyo this weekend. I was there in May and didn't expect to be spoken to at all being Afro-Latino. While my phone was not exploding, Japanese locals did write me, or at least tried to. A few tried speaking to me at Eagle Blue, the language stopped them. Lots of girls in Ni Chome spoke to me. I was very popular at 24 because no one had to speak to me at all. I'm just praying at this point I find Kazuto from The Boyfriend and he kinda falls in love with me. A boy can dream.
Just saw the part of "got in Vulcano"... now I wanna know, how can we enter there? Cause The time I tried, geeeez, I didn't even saw an opening that I could call a door. Give us hints lol
Come to Sydney for Mardi Gra!!
Going next year
I felt the culture shock when I went to Florida. I get it's a totally different country but I felt very much like fresh meat. Was nice but overwhelming at the same time x
You guys remind me of my single days LOL
I think when it comes to hook ups or even finding love, its a numbers game. While it can be frustrating when you go out and don't get any attention, and while it can be hard to face rejection, in the end it comes down to finding the right person among all that noise.
Good luck! Hope you guys find what you are looking for, hopefully in Japan. (Maybe it is time to get out of Tokyo to seek love! Maybe Tokyo is the problem!)
Not gonna lie, it’s comforting to know as a 6’3 black bear who is ignored in most american gay scenes, that it’s a bit more universal. Even for thin handsome white and asian guys such as yourselves. I will say I feel beautiful in Tokyo. I get attention, my hotline blings, and I just feel more sociable among strangers. Question: when you have feelings of being ignored…are you in these circuit parties or bathhouses? Really pay attention to WHERE you are when you feel these things, and don’t go there. Applauding getting into a club that excludes people based on body size and has rejected you twice is WILD outside of your world. Screw Volcano! Lol we’re looking for something a bit less shallow…are we not?
As an average foreigner I had so much action everywhere but Tokyo. Next trip, I'm getting straight on that Shinkansen after taking the monorail!
I think this type of thing happens everywhere, and the reality of it is that EVERYONE is picky. I've experienced it myself. I went to seattle in summer 2024, and same thing everyone wanted right now to hook up.
In my country, we call this "new chicken", everyone is interested in the "new chicken" until you blend in and become one of us. Then you become part of the communities and experience the "average man's life" again.
I have found that when you are in a place where you are the minority, you will be noticed. This can be good or bad, but it is a natural occurrence. I am an old white guy who spent two weeks in a smaller city in the Philippines in July. No matter where we went, I was noticed. I was taller, paler, blonde/gray hair than the majority of the population. It was nice to have others interested in me and at the same time uncomfortable when many would just stare at me. If you blend in with those around you it can make you feel unwanted, but really it just means you have to try harder to stand out.
I don’t understand what happen here in Japan about it, because I feel the same as you do! I try to think that’s because I don’t have a friendly face or I have a mad face and they feel afraid to talk to me or message me, so I feel better with this situation. And sometimes they just don’t feel confortable to talk in another language or they have no self-esteem or courage to talk with foreigner. I really don’t know 🤭🤣
I have never travelled anywhere, in the US or abroad (including Japan), where my apps didn't go off as soon as i got there. A fresh face and probably a tourist so no strings.
It surprises me that we move as a group, that our choices and behaviors are group, and that we change simply by frequenting one or another club. I don't judge it; I just take it into account so as not to do it.
If you stay long enough in Korea or Singapore or wherever people will stop messaging you too. That’s just very shallow observation but I think easy way to know is move there and live for a few years.
日本にいると生きているというより生かされているという気分になるね🥲"人を見たら泥棒と思え"という言葉は日本の小学校高学年以降なら誰でも知っているくらい浸透しています。文字通り日本人は他所との接触を極端に警戒するし自分のパーソナルスペースを最も重要視すると思います。大阪は全然違うけどね。今までお疲れさん😉元気でね~👋
Welcome to Kuala Lumpur :)
Guys - Kudos on having this vulnerable, interesting, and relatable conversation about beauty standards and the challenges of dating in Japan vs. other countries.
Ming is a 7 easy - they say go to where your appreciate there was a Chinese female comedian who said something along the lines of in China she was “fat” and “ugly” but in America she’s a 7/8
New skincare routine? both of you are glowing especially Meng
Agree with @passatboi - the fresh meat phenomenon is a thing but I know where Meng is coming from. Living in the UK as a bear who prefers slimmer guys, I am a very niche proposition. In Japan my apps explode with interest. For the record Meng - I know you like slender men too - but you're gorgeous! Don't EVER rate yourself that low x
As an American who lived in KL for 3 years before amazing city. It's probably time to leave Japan and experience living somewhere else. Meng is easy an 8 he's cute and with those glasses on look out! There is no harm in looking for a job and trying another country for 1-3 years.
I find this very interesting. I have the same feeling as well living in London that has a large gay population. Its mostly me contacting people. Then after a couple messages out of the blue your ghosted.
Could it be more of a Japanese [gay] culture thing? Do they act this way towards other people of comparable attractiveness (because probably the top 1% attractive people get special treatment anywhere)?
12:13 "average Chinese guys" I LOL'ed
Great video today I really enjoyed the topic you discussed and I like how you tell it how it is. Keep up with the good and merry Christmas 🏳️🌈🎄
Happy holidays!
Wait, meng didn't see any guy in KL! It is multicultural here, so many beautiful guys of many races. It is heaven here
I do not know... I am aware that this is just a fun conversation... but to be honest, I would rather feel lonely and ugly in Japan than anywhere else. It really depends on your personality, but being gay can feel freeking lonely anywhere you go. I have reached a point in my life where validation from others do not mean anything anymore. I could not care less if people find me attractive. Of course this extreme attitude has consequences, in the form of being lonely, so probably a balance of being more proactive should be more advisable... but it just takes a lot of energy. Anyways, I do not know Japan but I do know KL. And yes, it might feel more "welcoming" at the beginning but from my experience it is just an illusion... after a while, every relationship feels fake, shallow, and the result of some kind of ulterior interest. Again, this is my opinion, but I am also a person who does not like clubs, bath houses, alcohol, ... so go figure...
Meng's "What do they look like?" to Andrew regarding Taiwanese men preference is giving very Shangela "What is my look and what is your look" prelude to sugar daddy monologue.
Haha still one of the most iconic moments on DR
Poor Ming! You are Beautiful ❤️
the [insert city] BTM youtube channel possibilities are endless. you two should go for it.
For Chinese gay men, if you are a top, you need to be tall. If you are a bottom, short is fine. Preferable even.
The tops come for Thai bottoms all the time. xD
Hello from Bucharest, Romania - a huge underrated city in Europe:)
I echo Meng's perspective. When I am in China, I am called tall and fat like a billboard. When I am in the USA, I am a curvy pretty girl. I get hit on even walking on the street. lol
20 to 30 years old Taiwanes here. I think 10:39 is a pretty precies description, Taiwanese gay tend to be only with people who look like them. It is not only in appearance but also in mindset. I even think the "gay diversity" is much less here than in Japan.
Whatever, I do notice both of you are getting bulky
Its a cultural thing...Japanese men tend to be the same not just in Japan but any country, its rare thay they get out of that box which is sad since it affects them more than they realize and more than anyone else.
I wonder - how Prep culture is in Japan? As Filipino-American, In the Philippines, its accessible but for 💸💸💸 and in San Francisco, its almost always free.
Have a conversation, yes, but it’s not worthy of turning it into clickbait/ragebait (as the title & thumbnail suggest). We are reasonable people, not slaves to emotional infantilism.
Meeting one Japanese guy in DC (yes, even in the USA) I approve this message.
Warmer countries have warmer people. It's really that the way it is lol
Life lesson: "go where you are wanted".
Paging Dr. Freud! Two questions: Do your Japanese friends get a lot of hits on Grindr? Of the many hits you got on Grindr while traveling, how many would you actually consider hooking up with? Anyway, you're gorgeous. I hope you find the love you seek. :)
I was quite busy in Taiwan last summer... but that doesn't mean much.
People like who they like.
Cheers to the friend who let me talk about the same situation 582 times until I finally got over it
wow, the insecurities in this video haha. Just stop.
Though I will say though, there is always a stronger "fresh meat" effect when it comes to gays travelling. In general i feel like you will always be the "hot shit" the first night or two in a new country, because gays are ALWAYS looking for new people haha. Thats not to say that the environment in those new places arent more tailored to you and that its just rose-tinted glasses, but it is something to be aware of aaahaahah
Another story is - on the day you are leaving a city, then you get all the hot guys wanting to connect. when you are checking out of hotel, on way to airport or something!
Every country / culture has its bright side and dark side. The media (from main stream media to social media) has all been singing praise for Japan that most people are just led to believe its a uotpia. As a result, it becoems such a 'it girl' that everywhere u turn, people all seem to want to visit Japan or even live there.
I have lots of Japanese freinds; a big majority of those who live there want to leave, and those who live abroad have no intnetion to move back. That got to tell you something.
Has someone been working out?
I caught that TWICE- "Talk that Talk" Choreo @1:13. 😂
I’m at 3:16. You were lucky in Korea. Didn’t get that many messages! Very few actually.
I'm sorry you felt that way meng. Cus you are so my type
Meng would not be able to leave any large metro area in the US without multiple marriage offers. In like... three days. Maybe four.
Be gentle with yourself without pity ourself is hard😅
I think is a leeson of humbleness when you don't fit the beauty standard of other country...I mean people out of the beauty hegemony often have the feel of not being part of something but grow to understand that what works for someone it May not for everyone and that don't make you less.
Some people learn that in their very own country or home while other have to learn it somewhere else.
Also Japanese people is hard to aproach to reach and stablish a bond just by their culture rather than just the beauty standard.
自分をUglyだとは思わないけど（イケメンでもないけど）日本のゲイクラブとかで誰かと仲良くできたことは全然ないなぁ
I feel I MUST mention the elephant in the room... that is obviously not a reference to size!
I think it is age.
Sadly, this is just the wheel of life.
For, being popular, sort after, it all grinds to a halt eventually, as you start showing age, you'd agree with that wouldn't you?
You've made references to not wanting anything to do with older guys, haven't you?
The age rejection thing is more so if you are 'average', or 'normal' and especially if you are 'plain' or ugly.
One thing I found interesting, two good looking Japanese guys picked me up in Sydney, and we had great fun, and they had BIG stingers too, both wanted a top.
And, I had an ongoing 'thing' with a guy in Japan online, he had a whopper too!
So, I don't know, maybe gay Japanese in Japan feel more constricted there by their long held traditions and preferences?
Certainly not been my experience outside of Japan.
😎👌
I think you guys are right that the shyness of people in areas is a major factor and I get that feeling of being outcast too. As someone else said, the "fresh meat" phenomenon is HUGE especially in areas which have a limited gay population or where there aren't many tourists. I think it's important to not gauge self worth from the usage of these apps. You're hot Meng, be confident! BTW, I love your guys work a lot but using AI images is a bit cheap looking (and morally dubious). You deserve better.
It's funny how familiar you are with Taiwan's gay scene, G-Star, Si-men ding etc. lol.
2:27 Lol as a KLite I have the same experience. I don't use Grindr very much so whenever I pop up in there the notifcations go crazy. I don't find myself that attractive... Oerhaps people here are not that picky or have a different standards of beauty, idk.
Im okay "popular" here .. but japanese people I've met, told me i would be very popular in japan 😅 ... So i guess looking beefy/stocky is popular there hahah.. i will visit someday,..and will see for myself hahah
I think you may be giving up too much control over your sense of self-worth to your environment and to the culture that you currently find yourself in.
There is nothing more attractive to me than someone who is comfortable in their own skin and does not give a f%$# what anyone else thinks about them. I find that (attitude) profoundly sexy!
I think that the secret to attracting what we want is to love ourselves first.
I think you both are awesome!
Meng has caught a case of the "likes". Get well soon x