The Most Corrupt Investigation In Aviation History - The Mysterious Fate Of Pan Am Flight 7
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ส.ค. 2021
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In 1958, a flight doing it's routine trip to honolulu would vanish without any warning, prompting the largest search for a commercial plane to date. In today's video we will recount the final moments of Pan American Airways Flight 7, and the questionable investigation that followed. To date nobody knows what caused the plane to disappear.
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yes daddy
They don't offer pig latin?! How can that be?
You should make a video about the "Train's mystery dive unsolved" article.
i can't even avoid the damn sponsor because you have to put a pinned comment i pay not to see ads and it pisses me off that youtubers are allowed to have there own ads on top of the ones youtube has and youtube doesn't remove them from the videos or even take down videos with ads
@@robjackson4050 Because youtube gets the money from their ads so creators need to have their own ads to make money
"Any evidence of an explosion could have been destroyed by an explosion."
Wow. Real Sherlock move there Pan Am.
I used the explosion to destroy the explosion
Yeah. This is big brain time
Yeah, downright genius 🤣🤣
No csi in those days? No looking into the bodies eyes to see the last thing’s seen, like they do today.
@@colinashby3775 the who hadn’t recorded won’t get fooled again when this happened so how could they have started the show?
damn mispronouncing epitome hit him so hard, that he had to take an entire sponsorship based around that singular event.
And that’s the epitome of hyperbole.
Ep it oh m ov hipper bowl
I used to think it was two different words lmao
Woah Cuno, you can actually speak more fluently now, cheers to that! Nobody fucks with the Cuno
Yeah that really went awry
just a couple weeks ago my wife's grandpa asked me to help him get on the interwebs to buy tickets to fly out to see his daughter, wife's aunt, and asked to see what tickets were on Pan Am, he was surprised to learn they had gone out of business over 30 years ago
Lol. Thats kind of cute. Time does fly.
Talk about a blast from the past
was half expecting him having forgotten the aunt had died lol
@@HungerGamesFan88 🤪😅👍🏽
Sounds like dementia
What I find weird is that there were distress signals picked up that matched the frequency of the life rafts onboard in the days following, but instead of mobilizing search teams to find the source they shrugged it off. Noting the amount of corruption in the rest of the investigation it leaves you to wonder if they willfully left a raft of survivors to perish adrift at sea.
The US government has historically silenced people with death.
They did it to protect the integrity of Pan Am. Plus they honestly didn't wont payout too much as well
@@Stephen-G won't or want? What are you trying to convey?
@Murri Juana they did not want to pay for it
@@Stephen-G wouldnt it look worse if they lost a plane and never found it, than if they lost the plane and found it, and saved all/some of the people on board?
Searching for Flight 7:
“Sir, I’ve found something!”
“Nah, that ain’t it.”
“Okie dokie”
You understand politics and Big CEOs now. Follow the money.
@@kingtimmy88 Commander Vimes?
@@ForeverMrZaphaell I understood that reference!
Plot twist: there were two unrelated simultaneous sabotage plots
Wouldn't be surprised, they are both super suspect!
I agree with this
came to say just this haha. be crazy if the frogman planned to fake his own death only for the other saboteur to finish the job.
That would be fascinating if that was the case. Especially since the apparent prevalence of such a scheme at the time.
Plot twist: There was THREE
My grandpa was a pilot in Pan Am during the time of the accident and until it was sold/bankrupt. I never met him, but my dad says it was "company policy" that if any aircraft accident happened, they'd just grab a piece of a body (fingers, an arm) or even a piece of clothing from a victim and tell the family they had retreived the whole body. Then since the funeral would be with a closed coffin, they'd place said piece of body/clothing inside of the coffin with a big metal plate to make enough weight for an human being at the height of the person who died. No one would know there wasn't an actually person there. I always thought it was something to give peace to the family, so they'd bury their loved ones (in their mind) and have clousure. Now I realized that Pan Am just didn't want to spend money to actually retrieve the whole bodies.
Lies to "make someone feel better" are still lies. and it's reprehensible to make it company policy.
Airlines don't recover bodies. The search and rescue people do that.
I'm sure your Grampa was honestly saying what he was told, but I'm sorry, that doesn't make it fact.
Wow, just wow
That definitely sounds like something a scummy company would do lol
That really doesn't make any sense. If they were hiding it that elaborately they wouldn't even need to bother with grabbing a piece of clothing. And at any rate, it's generally required to have an autopsy with deaths like this and there is also going to be a death certificate so it's not so simple, you don't just have to fool the family you have to get around the medical examiner.
It really sounds like so many people wanted this plane to go down, almost makes you wonder if they acknowledged each other before destroying the plane
Plane crashes as an have been romanticized. Thanks to war stories and Hollywood. Its why I prefer watching documentaries like this video.
What scares me isn't the action or the accident itself. It is the fact that I cannot imagine being someone who lost a loved one on an accident like this. Can you imagine looking for closure while a whole bunch of psychopaths act like everything is rather simple or rather too complicated to explain?
Take this for example, if there was a fire on board, sure, people would be up and about but then you'd find pieces of them plastered over the cabin on impact. There wouldn't be survivors with fractures that were abandoned to die at sea because a bunch of idios dismissed signals and flares as "probably someone testing equipment".
Fuck, I couldn't sleep if I was on the other side and let such a thing slide.
Its the same thing with swattings right? Yes, shit could go horribly wrong. But I still wish the cops show up every time rather than not at all.
"A suicidal phyco, desperate businessman and a threatened politician get on a plane..."
Literally could have been anything
Make them all involved in a conspiracy, and, baby, you got a Poirot novel going.
Psycho.... :)
I kinda believe that these two crashes were due to a deliberate explosion. Mainly because CAB just blamed a well known issue and ignored everything else. If it wasn't for corruption I'd be Occam's razor.
Psycho.
businessman with a background in explosives and 4 life insurance policies to his name..
Just imagine your plane going down in flames, and you miraculously survive the ditch and now you have a professional crew with a radio sending SOS on your life raft...but no one comes due to poor SAR effort and the airline trying to cover up the situation. Believing that you'll be saved in no time but instead, just drifting away for an ultimate slow death on the Pacific ocean for those reasons is just so unnerving.
I always think about the poor victims and their families who suffer so much for NO good reason or fault of their own.
They'd have probably watched in awe as the search planes flew over only for nobody to come and actually rescue them
You think that airline executives care about your life? They don't even know your name
Anyone involved with the cover up, if that’s what it was, should have been locked away the rest of their lives for first degree murder. Even an axe murderer has more mercy than that, they won’t let you slowly die of thirst and exposure adrift at sea.
@@TheRealHoltzy they have more incentive than anyone else to keep their planes in the air
"Hey, we're getting distress signals near where that missing plane probably went down, wanna check it out?"
"No."
"Okay... are you at least going to investigate what happened?"
"The plane crashed."
Bravo pan am. Brilliant work 👏
Even back in the day, it must have left a big lump in the carpet.
I dated a girl in the mid seventies who's mother flew as a stewardess with Pan American on 377s. She told me that her best friend, another stewardess was lost on flight 7. She also told me that the airplane already had a reputation for mechanical issues. Recently Smithsonian Magazine published an interesting article which reflected the content of this video. As to the issues with the Curtiss propellors, it is a fact the the hundreds of Boeing C-97s never experienced the propellor failure issues the the Stratocruisers did.
The C-97s had Hamilton Standard Hydromatic propellers. N90944 (Flight 7) was also equipped with the Hydromatic props. Interestingly, when it was delivered to American Overseas Airlines, it had Curtiss Electric props. As applied to the Stratocruiser, the Curtiss Electrics were not involved in any catastrophic prop failures. However, they were heavier props. After the 1950 merger, Pan Am converted the ex-AOA Stratocruisers to match the rest of their fleet, which had Hydromatic props.
I was going to mention you could most likely compare maintenance and failures from C-97 and KC-97s. I need to go re-watch the video to verify, but from the several crashes it seemed like the only total hull losses occurred when you lost an inboard engine.
The Curtiss Electric props were fairly trouble free on the Boeing 377-it was the Ham Standard props that were the problem childs-they had a nasty habit of self destructing in flight due to a debonding center rubber core inside the blade . Several fatal accidents were attributed to such props coming unglued in flight-when the did that-it usually ripped the entire engine off with it-causing a complete loss of control of the aircraft.
I'm still getting my head wrapped around the ability to purchase life insurance at the airport like you'd insure a parcel at the post office. Just nuts.
I remember vending machines with flight insurance in the 1970s.
why? back then it was prudent to do so flying wasnt as safe back then as today just my thoughts on that.
My experience really only being Having played video games, usually if you're in a big vehicle, that vehicles going to explode some how.
Today, you can purchase it when you buy your ticket. It's just now labeled "trip insurance"
I've been flying for over 50 years.....when I started flying I could walk up to a stand and just fill out a form, drop it in the slot and voila, I was insured.
Never did it, but I could have.
Seems like an Agatha Christie novel, where everyone is guilty.
Reminds me of the Clue movie
@Sean Beebe or maybe this time they all got to it simultaneously or at least very close to one another, and that's what is causing the confusion as to what actually happened
Murder on the Orient express
yeah, the audio weak translation says "Syracuse, New York" that is most likely a mis-translation, I'm gonna need the original audio to see what I hear and if I hear Syracuse, New York
Perfectly said
Good gawd. This whole thing is like a real life Agatha Christie novel. How many shady characters can you put on one ill-fated flight to Hawaii?
Murder mystery flights…..would there be a market for such a thing?
@@trevormatthews7981 yeeesh. That would be one jittery group of passengers. Is it going to be a person who murders one person, or is the aircraft going to try and kill everyone aboard?
And the ground search and rescue folks ignored the s.o.s. signals. Just completely dismissed them! Yikes!
I was sure you were going to tell us “Mrs. Payne’s new husband bore a strikingly similar resemblance to her late husband, whose demise was surely the luckiest break ever.”
You mean like Ted Olson his former wife Barbara Olson and new wife Lady Booth? Barb Olson was aboard AA FLT 77 that hit the Pentagon when she tragically parishes. Good ol'Ted was lucky enough to meet and marry a very strongly resemblance of his former wife in Lady Boots 2.0. May she rest in peace!
@personofinterestchocolatem9158 are you sure it is not Barbara?
@@joinjen3854 😉
Considering that plane never hit the Pentagon I'm guessing ol Barb had a little plastic surgery alterations and is living happy with teddy. You'd be shocked if you knew the truth about that day. Look at shanksville they try to convince us a hundred ton 757 crashed there but left no wreckage. Sorry to say all four planes landed at Westover airforce base in Chicopee Mass. Whatever hit the towers was NOT AA11 and UA175
And that’s something that confused me. Why would you kill yourself to secure an insurance policy for someone else?
Reminds me a lot of this guy, Slightly Sociable except he does boat mysteries. When are we getting a crossover ep? :)
They CAN'T be the same guy, that would be too weird
Yeah, Slightly Sociable IS a very weird guy anyway, Barely Sociable's cool though
With Virtually Sociable.
Reminds me of partly antisocial
They would never collab. They have serious beef with each other.
"Never make fun of someone for misprouncing a word. They most likely learned the word through reading."
@Arst Koben I get what you're saying, but don't pretend like you look up the pronunciation to every new word you read.
Not everyone's first language is English either, which will also affect pronunciation, but some words that are essentially the same word across languages can also be pronounced differently depending on the language. For example, the word vaccine is the same in both English and Japanese, but in Japanese it's pronounced "wac-cheen." The only people you should make fun of for pronunciation are racists who have grown up in English speaking countries and who's first language is English, and make fun of immigrants for not speaking flawless English yet mispronounced or misuse words all the time.
It's okay to say words in a nonstandard way even if you don't read a lot. Don't make fun of people.
At this point people are learning mispronunciations from TH-cam. That's where accents come from, people talking and listening to each other. It's fine
@Arst Koben Maybe if the English language wasn't a huge meme with things like breach and break which are pronounced differently or break and brake which are pronounced the same... Spanish and Japanese don't have this issue, you can say anything correctly just by reading it.
@@no_peace I take your point, and I make a point of avoiding trying to belittle people for largely irrelevant grammatical or spelling mistakes; apart from anything else, I'm often on shaky ground myself! (l will make an exception though in instances where I see someone trying to make *another* feel small because of bad spelling, pronunciation or whatever). That's not to say though that there aren't certain mispronunciations that get right up my nose; a few of them have been gaining traction for years but with the Advent of the Web and the rise of TH-cam, there are a number of these mangled and bastardized pronunciations that in the manner of alien grey squirrels outcompeting their native rivals, the red, have actually become the default rendering of certain words,
cf: "Miss-cheev-ee-us"; "pal-ahvva" and *>eeuch!!
The craziest part of this whole story is the bomber who actually expected the plane to take off on time!
Great video. Given PanAm's history of "mysterious accidents" from the 50s - 90s, I'm amazed they could sell anyone a ticket.
I just think its the "what are the odds" logic.
Keep in mind this was the 1950s. If you saw military aircraft fall out of the sky, you'd know they were paper planes compared to an airline. I'm just saying, size and scale can be reassuring. Besides, what are the odds? And again, for every plane that went down from a malfunction, several landed while missing pieces.
Again, I haven't lived 1957. I could be completely wrong. Maybe people were just as paranoid as we are now but we just couldn't know it because there wasn't social media.
You have to remember that Pan Am was the largest airline in the USA and was the unofficial flag ship carrier for the country. It had the biggest fleet, could offer the lowest prices and people probably felt a sense of nationalistic pride flying with them, they managed to struggle on all the way up until 1991 even with all their trouble.
Did PanAm act alone though?
i think it was probably easier to keep that information from being widespread before the internet
Also people were dumb... they thought smoking was healthy.
The best part about this is that I’ve been super into air disasters recently, the worst part is I’m flying from San Francisco to Hawaii in 3 days
Edit: for everyone asking, no I did not make it.
Argh, I want to go to Hawaii - have a good time, man!
You will crash
@@GardenGuy1943 anonymity on the internet sure is nice isnt it?
@@okadz7485 oh it’s great
@@GardenGuy1943 I bet it is buddy
Pilot here, the bearing noted as “eleven” is more likely to be 211, as the flight was southwest bound from San Francisco to Honolulu, not northeast bound. The magnetic variation is still pretty much the same in that area today as it was in 1957, and a direct line from San Francisco to Honolulu gives us a magnetic bearing of 239°. Now the route wasn’t as perfectly direct as that, and the compass deviation from aircraft components likely influenced that number, so a bearing of 211 is very likely to be what their instruments told them, which they then stated on that tape
Interesting!
You’re not a pilot, I know every pilot in the world!
@@PotawatomiThunderNew really?
Hey Vsauce Michael here
I don't know wtf I just read, I just know it made my panties drop, lol that was sexy asf.
I'll see myself out.
They seemed completely uninterested in even saving potential survivors... let alone solving the mystery of what caused the accident.
I know, right! I cannot imagine losing someone in an accident like this one, just looking for closure while a bunch of idiots make a bunch of convenient excuses that they themselves weren't certain of.
And also, I cannot imagine letting a bunch of transmissions AND a flare slide as "ah, its probably Crazy Billy testing some of his hIgH qUaLiTy equipment!"
Just. No.
@valentinegonsalves7322 LOL you have an amusing way with words, well put 😂
What makes me the most suspicious is the disregard for the SOS-signals. Like... what were they affraid of to find, if someone had survived and would talk?
If we make the assumption that they were indeed trying to cover-up the story as much as they could, dismissing these signals as "unreliable" would make sense, since survivors have a first hand account of what actually happened...
@@zikalokof1challenge414 The question for me is, what if not trying to cover something up could explain the dismissal?
A human factor of lazynes? Do we realy want to assingne that to people in such a profession? Same goes for disregard of human life.
If it was for say safety-reasons, that could be explained and the reasons could be validated or dismissed, but there would be reasons.
@@leandrobravo3319 Thats an interesting point, because its not that clear what the reasons would be if they weren't trying to cover up. If that was the case, I think they were trying to keep most of their resources searching what was confirmed and near confirmed. As the video suggested, these distress calls may have been anything else, but the fact that coincidentally those matched the plane's supposed crash site suggest that there was maybe a case of negligence on behalf of the investigating team
@@zikalokof1challenge414 And that is what struck me as odd a bit. I know it's a thing, but I don't like to default to "Oh it's simply negligence." as if all people are that way. It still is a posibility, though, maybe not out of bad intentions, but "blinded by expirience", becaus usualy it is this or that way.
@@leandrobravo3319 If we dont consider negligence, I'd personally go with that, blinded by experience, since this might have already happened to them, but it was a false alarm
It's painful to realise that so many people lost their lives because it corruption and ignorance. To abandon those emergency signals and flare reports..it's criminal.
All for money , the world runs in mysterious ways
Welcome to capitalism.
Isn't it coincidental how important recordings and other records " disappear" in these types of situations?
@@Alex-tm4th We all know about Communism's excellent history of transparency and lack of cover-ups.
@@Alex-tm4th look up the description of capitalism as an economic system. Where does corruption and disdainful ethics come up in that. Oh, right! They don’t. Apparently you are used to ill-gotten gain so you assume other ways of gain- including capitalism- are thereby illicit? That makes no sense.
It makes me so angry that they literally could have saved these people if they just hadn’t dismissed the radio signals as “unrelated.” I can’t imagine their reasons for doing so. It’s obvious the survivors were alive for quite a while after the crash.
Small problem: If someone survives, they could be evidence of what really happened.
That's what really got me, heartbreaking
No, that is not obvious at all. And some weak radio signal that cannot be identified and could be anything isn't of much help.
@@Elite7555 kidding? Ten separate SOS signals all coming from the same place near where flares had been found? And nobody so much as checked it out, turning to search a vast ocean with ZERO leads instead?
@@Wannaknowmyname1
"dannylamb456
6 days ago
Small problem: If someone survives, they could be evidence of what really happened."
This guy gets it. Its always about money! Always Follow the money... and the people in govt who have their hands in it. Times have not changed. Greedy people will cover up anything to make more money.
Suggest you might want to consider doing a story on the rail accident mentioned in the newspaper headline at 23:24, where on September 15, 1958, a commuter train ran off the Newark Bay Drawbridge, killing 48. The exact reasons why the train failed to stop for red signals and derails protecting the open drawbridge are still unknown to this day.
I fully expected that was the key. That this guy William had pulled a stunt like this before.
Hearing about other weird recent derailments would also be interesting.
@@nottechytutorialsI agree. Especially the one in Ohio.
Let's not get off track.
One of the crew members, William Fortenberry, was co-pilot on the famous " Nash-Fortenberry" UFO incident in 1952.
Plane disappearences are so interesting to me, the idea that something so massive with so many people inside can just nope out of existence with little to no evidence for why, it's terrifying. Edit: I'm getting tired of people saying oh the world is bigger it makes sense, oceans are big I get it now alright stop sending the same response ur not original lmao
The thing is, the ocean is unfathomably big, and even a modern aircraft is little more than a spec of dust, relatively speaking
@@jttech44 not to mention the water in that area is over 16,000 feet deep. The pressure at that depth is over 7000 PSI
Yeah and they wanna go and live on Mars 😂
I feel the same way! Like with Malaysia Airlines Flight 370, so often I’m thinking “WHAT HAPPENED?! How did it just disappear?!”
@@LikeAF0x If you read, books or articles you learn. Start reading.
I just can’t imagine ever being in a search and rescue and saying “yeah that’s probably just someone testing equipment” and not even sending a single person to go investigate. I get that’s kinda the whole point of the video but I can’t imagine ever being a person who could just let something like that slide.
Many few years ago, while living in Australia, there was a story in the news. An EPIRB Distress beacon was activated and the location showed up as being in a certain harbour (from memory, close to Melbourne in Victoria state), so whoever was in charge, thought "oh this is INSIDE the harbour, so it MUST be an accidental false alarm" and didn't even task rescue personnel to go check it out. The next day one/several folks turned up dead. Their boat had gotten into difficulty at night, just inside by the harbour's entrance. Sorry I've just googled and can't find a reference to it. Certainly the consumer available internet was in it's infancy when it happened. Google searches just fill me with adverts to buy a new EPIRB, LOL !
@@KiwiCatherineJemma I used to live south of melborne. I vaguely remember this happening, i was pretty young, but my dads a mariner, so I heard about it plenty
You'd be amazed at how politics can get people to let ANYTHING slide.
That’s because you’re a normal, well adjusted human being
Yeah, some incompetent MoFos.
Just found your channel tonight, must compliment you on many things. The clearly enunciated voiceover, actual period recordings of the 377 model Boeing rather than "filler" stock video of unrelated aircraft were a refreshing thing to see for an information video like this.
Finally, the absolutely amazing piano cover of "Bloody Tears" of Castlevania fame on the end credits was something that hit me right in the nostalgia.
Can you imagine having to hold people hostage just to convince the government that there needs to be an investigation AFTER A PLANE CRASH?!
I feel like “Most Corrupt” is just Pan Am’s middle name at this point.
Tbf Pan "MC" Am sounds pretty cool
@@liyre4189 panmcam
That's why they were killed by the ghost of Howard Hughes
Eastern airlines
@@switchman368 pacman
Pilot here, some thoughts I had on this, particularly the distress call transcript:
- Propeller issues could have caused an engine fire, especially in a "runaway prop" scenario, where a variable pitch propeller gets stuck in its "fine pitch" setting." Imagine that your car was powered by four separate engines, each with its own gearbox, and suddenly one engine gets stuck in first gear while speeding down the highway. The components of the engine overspeed and get very hot, which could easily lead to a fire.
- Regardless, piston engines of that era were really pushing the boundaries of what was possible with internal combustion, and were just years away from being surpassed by more reliable and powerful turboprops and jets. Fires were rare but not unheard of.
- "What about 3 engine" is probably a question about 3 engine performance. Assuming they could extinguish the fire, the crew's next assessment would have to be whether they could limp to safety on 3 engines with 1 shutdown. Usually "Engine 3" refers to a specific engine while "3 engine" means flying the airplane on 3 engines.
- The fuel management discussion might be related to diverting fuel away from the fire, by shutting off fuel flow to the engine and probably also transferring fuel out of the nearby wing tanks. I can't make sense of the phraseology, though. Maybe the numbers correspond to fuel tanks? Fuel tanks, though, are usually named according to their location (i.e. Right Wing Inboard). Not sure of the scheme on the 377.
- An onboard fire could easily compromise the radios long before the ditching. Since the antennae are all over the plane, even a wing fire could fry the wiring necessary for transmission.
Man I love all the pilots, aircraft mechanics, and more that have weighed in on this video. Gives a new perspective and explains things a bit more! Thank you.
Great comment
Excellent professional insight. My evaluation is that the pilots (probably WW2 combat veterans) did a good ditching in calm seas and there were survivors for a good while. It's disgusting to think that Pan Am execs possibly did not want survivors because of bad press and lawsuits. This being a luxury flight I wonder what possible big shots were on board.
I do have a technical question-you mentioned transferring the fuel away from a possibly runaway/burned up engine. Wouldn't transferring the fuel leave the 'empty' tanks full of vapor which is highly flammable? I understand that you'd want to transfer fuel away from possibly feeding the fire but it seems like an empty tank of vapor could be explosive.
@@tomservo5347 Not sure I'd call my insight "professional," but I'm a private pilot and work in aviation safety with some unique vintage/warbird aircraft experience. You are absolutely correct that an empty fuel tank is an explosion risk (see TWA800 - yes I believe the NTSB theory but that would be a great topic for a video on this channel), though if I already had a fire on my wing I'd rather have less fuel nearby than more. One thing you definitely WOULD do is cutoff fuel to the engine so you hopefully stop feeding the fire. As I said, though, I really can't make much sense of the terminology that's in the transcript regarding fuel. The "3, 4, 5, 6" quote might even be counting something out in seconds. I looked up the 377's fuel system, and it only has 5 tanks (1 for each engine, plus a center tank).
The last note is similar to the Swissair 111 crash.
I imagine anytime a family member goes missing it must be terrifying for those involved. But *man* ...I cannot imagine what it must be like having a family member board a flight, expecting to pick them up when they land or to check in with you once they reach their destination, and then just nothing. And then hearing through the grapevine that the flight just *disappeared.* Fuckin hell, talk about a nightmare scenario.
Right? And later finding out that there were passengers found in the water with life jackets on and drowned, and distress signals that were blatantly ignored. My ONLY comfort would be telling myself that they likely died on impact with no pain, but hearing all that would end me
Regarding Flight 7's right-hand turn, was it possible that when they started to get an issue (fire on board or on an engine) the captain decided to turn back towards the ship so as to increase their chances of survival - but the fire (or whatever) overtook them too quick and they had to ditch instead.
Barely Sociable uploading is an event in my apartment, all six of us are sitting in front of the couch to watch this.
Hope all of you are having fun! That seems fun to watch with people
why not on the couch?
I also watch my couch when Barely Sociable videos come out
@@EtherealOblivion I also watch my Barely Sociable when my Couch videos come out
So uh
so I fucked up
No joke. I was boarding a flight from Honolulu to LAX when I received the notification this video was uploaded. LMAO. I’m happy to report we landed safely.
Welcome to CA!
@@WobblesandBean so how quick did you almost jump off that plane? Lol!!!
Sounds like an SCP...
Rad
SUS, if you don't reply than I guess this is a cover up.
Out of all the unsolved mystery channels on youtube, yours is definitely the most interesting one I've ever come across. Highly analytical, objective, and far from the other channels who are highly sensationalized. You respect the mystery and evidence and people involved while making it sound intriguing and making your own research, showing us the evidence you found. I can't think of any other channel that puts as much effort into its mystery content as you do. Cheers.
Here here! Well said! I'm really loving this channel's content! Thank you!
Imagine getting on a plane with a plan to sabotage it, only to discover that someone else on the plane beats you to it
It would make for a great story if two separate people just happened to intend to bring down the same aircraft at the same time. Especially if both attempts were not enough to cripple the plane - if it had its proper maintenance.
A good Cohen Brothers movie
Oh brother, bring down thy plane
or both attempts from the two seperate saboteurs both failed because the engines exploded first. How the tables have turned when the plane sabotages the saboteurs by exploding first.
The plane was like "I'm fired? Well, you can't fire me because I quit"
@@atashgallagher5139 ah yes “the trickster”
I'm kind of flabbergasted that they received an SOS signal, saw a flare, and a smoke signal, all within the search area and yet each time they were like "nah, that's probably unrelated".
Edit- I said smoke signal, I meant dye marker.
I don't know why, but that kinda haunts me knowing that they heard an SOS from that area with the plane's last 2 tail numbers, but that nothing was done about finding the survivors there
That wasn't the most accurate or trustworthy information. This sounded a bit like confirmation bias, and also this was the only report. You cannot rule out that it was entirely made up.
@Samurai Shampoo Worldwide, 1.1% of adults are schizophrenic (my mother was one such). An estimated 4% of adults are clinically psychopathic. 4.4% of Americans meet the criteria for Paranoid Personality Disorder. 4% of Americans (varies around the world, but not much) suffer from Bipolar Disorder. Barring overlap in those categories, about one in seven Americans would make it up. Those are not long odds.
Nothing new in that.
Just read about USS Indianapolis and how major incompetence/screws ups of land based officers causing 500+ additional deaths were covered up.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Indianapolis_(CA-35)#Sinking
Just discovered your channel. Very good. This case was covered up. Not enough work was done by investigators. RIP to all aboard that plane
I think the William and Harriet Pain link is the most intriguing. Especially that she remarried 2 days later and her neighbor. What if William convinced the neighbor to take the flight and pose as him? That would explain eloping to Tijuana so quickly.
If you would have told me fifteen years ago that I would stop what I’m doing to listen to someone who I never met, tell me a story about a plane that crashed 70 years ago I would have said no chance in hell but here I am addicted to this channel.
Real talk, man, from a native Brazilian Portuguese speaker: you pulled off a lot of the pronunciations of names, cities, etc. really well in this video! That's some quality endorsement for the sponsor right there lmao
Nice John Romita pfp, bud. It's Bruce Banner from Jenkins run, isn't it? Either him or Spidey from ASM.
While I'm not a speaker of Portuguese, from my Spanish/italian knowledge it just caught me off guard, sounded straight up like a native speaker to me
lmaooo. same. after the initial sponsorship spot I Really Didn't Expect Him To Botch The Pronunciation so much
@@looniemoonie5955 It's Bruce from Immortal Hulk, actually! Inked by Joe Bennett, I believe, but I can see the similarity with Romita's style :)
Alot of cities wit hard pronounced names is where alot of azores cape verdes n brazilians live(new england)
I just wanted to say that I appreciate videos like this. I come home tired and I just heat something up and let this run and it's awesome. I'm so glad I ran into this channel.
I've been following air disasters for most of my adult life (I'm 71 now) and this one is new to me. Good work! I've just subscribed.
Thats impressive. I bet youve heard of some extreme circumstances, unexplainable events, or maybe even paranormal happenings. Im a huge fan of all of the above and man, Id really like to hear some stories. Wishful typing I suppose. But its still an interesting topic to follow😊
Dude this whole story reads like a murder mystery novel, several different murder/suicide plots going on plus incompetence and mechanical issues.
"We're going to build a flying hotel. What could go wrong?"
Apparently, nothing wrong with the “hotel” part and a lot more to do with the “flying” part. Which is the case for pretty much every plane
Does airplanes still allow passengers to walk around the entire time and socialize like that? Maybe it's just the one flight I took they wanted us to be seated mostly except to use the restroom and such. I know private jets have beds and a spacious area to walk around. I just wonder if it effects anything.
@@dannyg.4421 You technically can, there’s just not really any reason to anymore, since plane aisles and seating got so much smaller, they have video screens and there’s no separate bar
estaurants etc. to socialise. Usually the only time you get made to sit is landing\takeoff and any turbulence. You can walk around and stretch your legs any other time though (as much as you’re able to, like I said, space permitting.)
Using flammable materials for decorations
Went about as well as the French and their floating hotels from WW1?
Another pilot here, tactical military, airline transport, and general aviation. The issue with propeller runaways on the Boeing 377 Stratocruiser's combination of the Pratt and Whitney 4360 quadruple-row, 28-cylander radial engine and the Hamilton Standard 2J17 four-bladed variable pitch propeller, as noted, was well known at the time of this and other accidents and incidents contemporary to the loss of PAA 007.
The P&W 4360 was the state of the art large radial aircraft engine of its time. It benefitted from the rapid improvements in conventional (i.e. non-jet) engine design that occurred during WWII. At that time, the 4360 was the largest, most powerful, and most complex production piston engine that had ever been built. Because of its power and complexity it was understandably challenging to maintain properly when compared to earlier engines of its general type. Further complicating the potential for dangerous failures, I am told, was that unlike previous engines of similar but less complicated design, the 4360 had a magnesium alloy propeller shaft. Designers chose this innovation for its significantly lighter weight as compared to the more commonly used steel alloy. Magnesium was not only lighter than steel, it was still very structurally strong. The drawback of magnesium was that if it were significantly overheated it could spontaneously combust and burn uncontrollably with a white hot fire. At the time of the engine's design this was not considered problematic because the worst anticipated airborne engine fire would not create temperatures intense enough to ignite a magnesium propeller shaft. What design engineers failed to anticipate would be a sufficiently elevated shaft temperature from a source, other than from an engine fire, that would be high enough to ignite the magnesium. That's where the design of the Hamilton Standard propeller comes into the story.
The Hamilton Standard constant speed (i.e. variable pitch) propellers mounted on the 377's massive P&W 4360 engines were approximately 17 feet in diameter and featured state of the art hollow steel blades and "hydromatic", engine oil pressure-actuated blade pitch control. When a constant speed 2J17 prop lost pitch control, it's blades rapidly drove to the fine (high RPM) position, and if throttle were not very quickly reduced to the associated engine by the pilot, the prop would increase RPM catastrophically (runaway prop) often severely damaging the engine, and worst case overspending the propeller RPM and in some cases resulting in shearing of some or all of the blades. If only one or three blades sheared, the resultingly severe out-of-balance forces could, and in several cases did, rip the engine and its nacelle completely from the wing! Even if a runaway prop structurally survived the overspeed with all of its blades still! intact, it could generate enough friction heat around the shaft to ignite its magnesium structure. The emergency procedure for a propeller shaft fire was to steeply dive the aircraft to produce enough volume of cold air through the engine to extinguish the fire in the magnesium shaft, a very dangerous maneuver for a large transport aircraft even under the best of circumstances!
This is an incredibly detailed account of a way long ago mystery which changed many lives forever. Incidents like this ricochet through society, altering life paths of those left behind to fend for themselves into the future. A well done piece here that I'm sure is appreciated by relatives of these souls as well as those just interested in historically unsolved events.
It gives me existential pause. I am extremely happy that such stories live on because despite the years, humans and science can still progress enough to decode pieces of such mysteries. Maybe its too long, but closure carries some value.
Maybe someday we'll know for sure.
Number 2 engine flaming out (or losing compression) would result in a loss of thrust from that engine. The resulting uneven engine thrust would have resulted in an initial LEFTward yaw. This could have caused a spooked pilot to jam in rudder exceeding design spec and causing the mentioned break in the J arm / vertical stabilizer. With a broken vertical stabilizer, life would get hard fast and would surely mandate a ditch. That said, with pitch control still in working order a glider landing would not be entirely impossible though would be a very difficult feat...
EDIT: This would not explain what caused the initial failure but could explain the proceeding events
This was my thought as well.
Yes, I was definitely thinking of the LEFT ward yaw while watching this video
That’s possible
I hate to be this guy... But I think you mean "succeeding events," as in subsequent... not proceeding.
my other thought before I posted the document I found in the comments was maybe the wrong engine? Or at least not the best engine for the type of plane it was... which would then lead into what you mentioned above
Quote of the day " The various passengers were in relatively good condition , despite , you know , being dead "
This is the best mystery I’ve seen on TH-cam so far. Great job covering all the facts involved.
Very cool. The first officer on the flight, Bill Wygant, was my great Uncle. It was interesting to know the facts of this disaster which somehow my entire family was unaware of. I was always told growing up that Romance of the Skies just disappeared without a trace. Nice to know that someone at least has some ideas!
Hey, so there's another commenter on this video who is also a relation of Wygant (mark lease). Just mentioning this in case you both didn't realise you had a familial member passing by here 🙃
Before "SOS", there was "CQ", or "CQD" (either "seek you", or derivation of the french word "security", the "D" added by Marconi). The operators age and training would determine which they might use, or both as was done by the sinking Titanic.
I was told CQD stood for "Come Quick Distress"
To add on, it's possible the "Syracuse" could be cq again but misheard as Syracuse.
CQ is just a call to anybody. CQD was WIDELY out of usage at the time of this crash. It was more or less a stupid idea right from the beginning, since a CQ is typically followed be a DE (callsign of calling station), which easily leads to confusion.
Also, is that tape a morse code transmission or a voice transmission? In commercial operation, basically no one used those abbreviations in voice. The emergency call in voice has been "Mayday" since 1927.
@@VintageTechFan most likely voice since "two audio engineers from dictaphone corporation" probably wouldn't transcript Morse code lol. But otherwise I agree, I'm not a pilot but I've played and watched fair bit of MSFS to know that you really never use abbreviations or standalone letters, because transmission problems. BUT.
CQ calls usually follows either DE ("from") or who you are seeking (aka CQ VK is "calling (anyone from) Australia). Since they CQ'ed 2 (or 3) times, followed by New York (which probably is misheard something else, neither NY nor anything similar to words "New York" comes up to me rn), this shows that:
- they were either in really bad situation, looking for literally anyone out there, and the radio operator was most likely in panic
or
- someone not skilled enough took the radio and transmitted the message. This might also explain why the signal was bad, because he might not known how to set up the equipment properly (or fix it in case of it being damaged on the spot).
That's all to my contribution. Nothing else comes up, and I'm leaning towards first opinion as rest of the evidence follows more closely. Altought, it would be best to hear the part of the tape, even for the tone of voice to be sure.
@@VintageTechFan I agree that "Mayday" would have been by far a more common distress call if spoken. "SOS" would only be used if they were using Morse code. Morse was often used for long-distance radio communications (short wave, etc.) but the transcript seems to refer to different voices so this was a voice call.
“Had been a Navy Frogman for 22 years”. Hmmm? That raises a few eyebrows. For those of us in the modern era that might not raise any red flags. But the Navy “frogmen” most commonly refers to the Navy UDT. The Underwater Demolitions Team. That was created in part to avoid the problems the Marines had landing on Tarawa. The job of the UDT was to scout out the landing beaches, and use precision explosives underwater to clear a path through coral reef’s to give the landing craft direct access to the beach heads. The tasks and roles of this elite specialized force evolved over time until they became what we now know as the Navy Seals. A member of the Navy UDT would have an almost unparalleled working knowledge of explosives, plus in 1957 relatively easy access to them. I mean the dude blew up a public road.
Are they responsible for the demise of coral reefs?
the Navy did not have frogmen or the UDT for 22 years prior to 1957.
@@ameliab7245 Define “demise of Coral Reefs”? WW2 as a whole killed a lot of coral. Both short and long term. The UDT cleared a relatively small number of Coral clusters that would form an impediment to landing craft reaching the invasion beaches. So yes they deliberately killed some coral. But in terms of scale their contributions to coral decline probably pales in comparison to the massive number of ships sunk, and assorted chemicals such as fuel oil released into the environment at or near reefs. Truk Atol being a stunning example of this.
@@kingkarlito They did have salvage divers going back that long. Plus the men who joined the initial UDT were mostly seasoned professionals. So already having 5-10 years in the Navy was not unusual. Expecting friends family or the media to get the details of someone’s career right is a fools errand. They often assume what you did for most of your career or the back half, was what you did for all of it.
@@andrewtaylor940 sunken ships actually would probably help coral reefs, it will provide homes for many types of sea life and create more room for life to grow. Unless a shipwreck disposes of its fuel or oil into the sea, it will likely add a lot to an underwater ecosystem
With all the unprecedented incompetence that took place with this search and rescue, it makes you wonder if this was a planned crash. Perhaps there was something on-board the plane that really just needed to never be found, and the lives lost onboard were an unfortunate byproduct of such a plan.
Really great deep dive. The best. Congratulations.
This report feels like a MadLib that someone filled in with whatever made them look less bad. 🤔 The amount of times companies show 0 regard for human life is extremely depressing.
Right? They were clearly stranded out there for a while given the dye markers and flare signals found. I think they honestly left them out there to die so they could not testify agains Pan Am in court.
@@toomuchaidan9109 Sadly, I believe it.
Well here's a wild guess:
Perhaps one or more engines on one side of the plane caught fire and/or the propeller flew off. This alone would have given them asymmetric thrust, which could have resulted in their deviation from the normal flight path. If two engines went out, then the pilots would have to ditch. Perhaps their distress call was faint because, by the time they made it, they were too low and the curvature of the Earth prevented it from being properly heard. Maybe they did a relatively successful ditching but, believing the plane would float for longer than it did, perhaps many people stayed on our near the plane and were sucked down when the plane sank.
Honestly this theory makes a fair bit of sense
@@zyonix007 Proximity to the ground actually tends to inhibit the reach of a signal. This is the reason we put television masts on hilltops - or in orbit!! As radio hams are wont to say, "Height is might".
Someone being sucked under by a sinking vehicle is more the exception than the rule, and odds are it won't happen. Most famously, the last person to leave the _Titanic_ was standing on the stern when it went under and rode it all the way down until it left him at the surface. He described it as being like on an elevator and was simply left floating until he was picked up by a boat. He didn't even get his hair wet.
@@keith6706 Damn that would be terrifying!
The "getting sucked under by something large sinking" theory has been debunked. Mythbusters being one of the more popular examples
Amazing videos man! Great narration and great audio and visuals! You make every story 10x more exciting to listen to!
Edit: great vid! You had me editing, researching, and commenting multiple times lol def will be back for more.
41:50 I’ve gone back through all the emergencies from top 5 manufacturers with 10 or more souls on board post WW2 through 1960 and SOS would not be used here. I really struggle to see why they were so quick to think this. This was long after the adopted mayday procedure and when that wasn’t adhered to, declaring emergency is the alternative. SOS seems the most illogical ironically. Feels like confirmation bias. These pilots would have to be egregiously undertrained in aviation and have zero knowledge on nomenclature & protocol.
37:45 this is not controversial in the least. Reference China Airlines 611 for examples of even a modern aircraft behaving similarly. Moreover, while a limited investigation, they still understood how explosive material affects structures. Reference incidents like United 629 in 1955 or National 601. But most counter to this claim of an explosion which lacks any tangible, verifiable evidence that can be defended in good faith, the debris field was FAR too limited for a catastrophic mid air explosion. It’s well documented even in the 50s how spread works - see examples above and compare their debris fields. This whole line of objective re: disintegration via propeller a proper answer seems to contend with some evidence not only logical, but proven to be the case previously. Absent any of the prototypical signs exhibited by midair explosions, it would have been highly irresponsible for them to conclude such was the case. That said, given the events of the investigation, speculation seems fair as normal burden of proof clearly has been corrupted. This feels like a rare incident where Occam’s razor might lean toward the speculative end of things
ayyy it's cranky yankee!
@@ghostmayne2412 sup!
Being a pilot myself I really love all these airline mystery’s keep it up
Well, dont be the next mystery dude
@@skeletonwguitar4383 eye eye captain 👨✈️
@@Deanjacob7 But i thought you were the captain
I hope you are taking notes, oh wait.. maybe not 🤔
@@skeletonwguitar4383 Looks like you are the captain now. You just got bamboozled. Don’t be the next mystery, dude.
The line between conspiracy and coincidence is razor thin in these cases.
It would be really interesting (though perhaps not entirely ethical) to go through the passenger lists on plane crashes that we know were not caused by passenger sabotage and see how suspicious people become once they are looked into. To me it seems more likely that you would find people who look guilty the more you are looking for guilty parties. Whereas in cases such as Pilot error/suicide we know the passengers did not cause it so we don't do deep dives into their lives. At the very least it might give us a better idea how likely it is that there would be so many parties with motive to bring this plane down.
True enough, look hard through the lives of any passenger (downed plane or otherwise) and suddenly everyone could have a motive.
What's interesting is that two parties benefited here. The wife with the insurance policies and Pan Am. Was the wife just incredibly lucky?
@lozmatik pan am, the CAB, and the wife were all lucky in some way. pan am protected its interests aswell as the wife, pan am and the CAB were in bed together and maybe she was just lucky that pan am had more to gain from covering it up. also the one guy probably wanted to kill himself and probably got lucky there too just saying.
How does TARGET PRACTICE sound ¿?
Dude, that would be SUCH a cool video! You could start out like it's a mystery, and go through the "suspects"--only to reveal at the end that it was mechanical failure and the whole thing was an exercise.
If you made the video, I'd totally watch it!
Since way back in the late 80's I've been a researching contributor (though it's trailed off in more recent years) to conspiracy theories online... Back then, we used a protocol called a "MUDD" or "MUCK" (the second being closer to "real time" chat)... AND we had notebooks full of indecipherable code and "addresses" for reaching the servers and files in which to communicate... otherwise much like "forums" as you probably know them today...
When I first started, and for many years, it was a mix of comedy and thought exercise between us... filled with comments like "Man, wouldn't this be hilarious if it were true???"
What I've come to learn over the years is that you have to be VERY careful (in any truly investigative sense) when you attribute malice to anything. More often, incompetence tends to be at the heart of any disaster or egregious criminality... and the "actual conspiracy" starts with bureaucrats working in concert to cover their asses.
"So they been actin' so damn smart, because they're so STUPID??!!!???" ~Grady "Tremors 2"
I'm not trying to dissuade anyone from making any kind of video to examine historically relevant events as if they're mysteries to be solved like a crime only to point out that by pure coincidence, these things do happen... It's just worth pointing out that there are levels of criminal behavior involved rather often, but it's more about saving face and keeping jobs when something totally stupid has been allowed and nobody wants to take accountability... AND pretty much NOBODY likes taking accountability, especially for incompetence.
More pointedly, you WILL likely find a never-ending source of material on which to build a fine channel. On the other hand, consistently showing where incompetence contributes to the majority of disasters and then conspiracy turns criminal when it obstructs justice and refutes accountability while preserving the careers of negligent and egregiously incompetent individuals might do more harm than good... BUT you be the judge on that one. I've had to wrestle with my own ethics long enough to be well calloused and "over it", personally.
...Any more, I just laugh as I used to. "Wouldn't it be hilarious if that's all it took to generate a great conspiracy?" ;o)
i really enjoy listening to you while working on the road
Great content! I can't believe I'm only finding your channel now. 🙌
A bit of speculation from a 40-year Amateur Radio operator here. "CQ" is derived from "seek you," and is a general call to other stations. It is still used today on Amateur Radio frequencies. Trans-oceanic flights used (and still use) HF frequency bands for voice communications, because of their long-range nature. The "CQ CQ Syracuse New York" stuck out to me as I read the transcript. It seems likely to have been a call from another aircraft somewhere in the Eastern US--it seems especially likely since the crash took place in the afternoon local time, when the upper half of the HF spectrum (roughly 13-30 MHz) propagate signals easily from the East Coast in the evening hours to the Pacific islands. Further, this all took place right at the solar cycle peak--the largest peak in 400 years of recorded history--which has a great enhancing effect on global HF signal propagation. At that time of year, the HF bands are generally enhanced anyway, but with a solar cycle peak, signals can be incredibly strong at thousands of miles over this generally reliable radio path. So this is the longest TH-cam video comment ever that is essentially saying, "I think it's unlikely that the CQ Syracuse call had anything to do with Flight 7." Of course, that means that it's possible that other comms in the transcript may also have come from other sources. None of this contributes to what may have happened to Flight 7, but I was inspired by the detailed analysis in this video to add a bit more to it for the few who may be interested.
RUS: I agree with you mostly. 1958 was the solar maximum of solar cycle 19. Friends would tell me that they could work the world on 6 meters with a wet noodle. I have a 1947 SW radio and it's dial showed 2.7 to 3.1 Mcs and 4.5 to 5 Mcs as commercial aviation bands . At the solar maximum, the upper HF bands would be magic, but not so much 160, 80 and 40 bands. Also there is a reason why the 80 meter and 40 meter ham bands exist the way they do. Second harmonic of 3.5 is roughly 7 mhz. Could a ham inadvertently QRM the aviation bands of 1957? Highly doubt it.
de WA8SDF
Thanks Rus and Jim for your detailed comments. Catherine, ZL3CATH
I'm a random bear icon wandering in a year later, but...is it possible someone heard a third "CQ" as "Syracuse"? The two terms sound similar in many American accents. Mondegreens are a thing. Perhaps the original transmission was, "CQ, CQ, CQ, (something that sounds like New York, maybe the name of a nearby location)". It seems more likely to me that someone would say "CQ" three times than that they would say it twice and then say "Syracuse".
It reminds me a bit of that old video that produced a bad transcription of Carl Orff's "O Fortuna" called "Gopher Tuna". Even though I took Latin in school and understand most of the lyrics to that song, there's a bit of my brain that listens to it and imagines gophers holding cans of Chicken of the Sea.
@@onbearfeet I dont know about then but now CQ is always repeated twice and then you give an identifier, so for example CQ CQ DX (long distance) CQ CQ CQ New York strikes me as very odd
CQ = "All Stations" . I used it for years. CQD was the old Distress code, replaced by SOS. The Q-Codes, and there are many, are still used today by skilled operators when transcribing radio messages.
Barely Sociable out here just casually dropping the most high quality content on TH-cam.
True
Nah, lemmino and kurzgesagt have the best quality non-fiction content. Let's be honest
Period.
@@GigaFloyd true
@@GigaFloyd I wish Lemmino uploaded more, though. I get that it's because of the amazing effort he pours into his videos, but it'd be great if he hired a team to help with the load.
I must say, the segue into the Babble ad was seriously seamless. Well done!🎉
Surprised the heck out of me as well!
What a fabulous video. So well-researched. So frightening. So helpful to save many many lives.
The Pan Am CEO from 1927 to 1968, Juan Trippe, was a political operator who wanted Pam Am to have exclusive rights to oversees travel. This is covered superbly in a Howard Hughes biopic with Leo DiCaprio: THE AVIATOR. There was so much crooked in the workings of the CAB .. FAA. They still aren't clean. The movie is a great look behind the scenes at an industry that was a gold mine.
All goverermemt branches now are corrupts
Are you flying a Juan way Trippe or Round trippe?
and ironically I was just watching a video on the 747 that was named after him, and its final fate as a flying restaurant in Japan, and the plane had one HELL of a test flight on its first go around to the point where it was nearly scrapped right then and there.
Up
Usually, all this kind of thing boils down to MONEY!
Off-topic, but an SCP about a predatory 50’s style plane that chases and tries to get aircraft passengers to board it would be simple but terrifying.
Same.
Anything can be a SCP
Kinda like the DV Toluca. Another SCP. Pirate vessel composed of bits of various sunken or decommissioned ships.
Cool idea
Vore style.
amazing presentation as always, I always enjoy your videos and always learn interesting stuff. when you came on to youtube you were immediately top notch
Wow this was so well done. I have been watching things on air crashes for years and I've never heard about this one.
A lot of us talk about how channels like Discovery, TLC, A&E etc used to put out quality content - I believe we have channels like this, spiritual successors to the quality content we knew and loved - clearly the desire to entertain and inform is alive and well in those few, top-shelf channels.
Many thanks for all the effort and polish you put into these videos man 👍🍻
Unfortunately this is not "quality" content.
@@sdaiwepm hey man we're all entitled to feel however we like, no harm no foul 👍
@@sdaiwepm It's sure better than the new season of "The Bachelorette."
That's fine. But I can't take an aviation show seriously if they (native English speakers!) think the plural of aircraft is "aircrafts."
@@sdaiwepm native english speakekrssnnnn!!!!!!!! bbn!n
The ads you do are funny, and I always look forward to the ad portion of your video because of them. You could do stand up and call it Barely Comedic and I'd by a ticket right away.
Yep
Barely Laughable
@@chriskilbourn I like this, the wordplay fits haha.
I'm barely there...
I’m so glad I stumbled upon your channel. Love the content.
Very well researched. I feel like I've taken a very deep dive into this mystery.
Lack of evidence makes people to create all sorts of theories...
Here is mine. Engine n3 exploded and got caught on fire. Debris probably hit the tail damaging vertical stabs. Plane started turning right, some passangers got knocked out, some made it to their seats and equipped life vests, probably breathing in fumes of n3 engine since it's near the fuselage. The crew, after battling for control over plane, decided to declare emergency but they were rapidly going out of the reach. Pilots hard land the plane on water, tail disconnects on impact. There might be survivors who tried to radio but were never heard properly. The end.
thats my thought too, the people on board with their backstories of insurance fraud and suicidal tendencies just adds to the mystery and drama! but could be all coincidental.
Also if the fragments clipped / cut part of the radio antenna you could get weak transmissions
Imagine a handful of survivors in a small raft, frantically broadcasting on their emergency radio... drifting for days before finally succumbing to thirst and the elements, because everyone was looking in the wrong place...
Honestly, this is precisely what I read from this story. The fact the plane hard turned to the right, and the fact we have indication of tail wing damage match each other far too well, and directly explain why finding survivors was so hard. Leaving only a question of what could cause both tail damage and a fire. An explosion and damage to the fuselage is neatly wraps things up. And since the cargo is not the a realistic cause of explosion, we obviously turn the attention to the engines.
The only thing I would disagree with, would be with naming a particular engine, because, while Engine 3 is name dropped by the 2014 transcript, it is not referenced as the source of a problem. If anything, the aviation staff in the transcript could be asking if Engine 3 is -also- down, which would lead to suspect either Engine 2 or Engine 4 the most, if anything. But that's an interpretation, and we have plenty of those.
Pan Am then proceeds to leverage their power, to explain away any issues that might cast a shadow on the reliability of their planes.
Funny excerpt: William Payne probably wasn’t on that plane. Head counts are notoriously unreliable. Payne just got really lucky. Probably moved down to Mexico with his wife, incredibly unreliable information down there.
The suicidal purser was lucky too in a way.
Doctor: I'm sorry, you got 50 minutes to live. Please spend the time wisely
Me: Ahh the corruption of aviation
I was a Quality control inspector for a major Aircraft manufacturer for many years .We built 12 passenger Turbo props .We had a couple of situations with the Prop nose cone detaching, and causing damage to the upper cabins fuselage section .. But in many cases it boils down to ,Your quess is as good as mine ? P/S My Grandfather refused to fly anywhere ,at any time, for any reason .Stating i don't want to be on board ,high in the air ,when that thing comes un -cranked !!!
I’ve lived in Honolulu for my whole life and somehow have not heard of this story it was quite interesting from the start 10/10!!! In love with the content
My theory: William Payne
Elaboration: William Payne checked in an explosive ladden bag before boarding the plane on a suicide mission. He used is demolition skills to build this bomb. This bag was placed into the the forward cargo hold to the right side of the plane.
The bomb's timer was set for an unexpectedly long time so William would know for certain it would detonate over open water.
When the bomb detonated, it blew open a hole to the passenger cabin and a hole in the side of the plane. This caused a rapid depressurization of the plane. However, the bomb was not powerful enough to cause enough damage that the subsequent pressurization would cause an inflight breakup.
This front section of the plane was where the changing rooms were located and also luxury seating section. This would likely mean on this rather empty flight, few passengers were to front of the plane. So when the bomb detonated, any casualties of the blast would have been sucked out of the plane or trapped at the front.
To ensure the plane goes down, William could have added some incendiaries to the bomb that started a fire in the area where it detonated. This fire would trapped any passengers to the front of the pre-explosion there until the crash. This would also result in the result of the plane filling with some smoke.
The explosion would have blown the debris out the right of the plane; towards the two right wing engines. Debris from the plane could have likely destroyed engine no. 3 and damaged the wing itself. This loss of thrust on the right wing and damage would cause the plane to roll/yaw to the right. Wing damage would cause enough drag that the pilots could not bring the nose to level position, forcing the plane into a descent. Lastly, the bomb may have also damaged critical radio equipment making a distress call so much more challenging.
The burning plane struggled on for 23 minutes before crashing into the water. During that time, some passengers and crew began preparing for the crash by doning vests or getting life rafts ready.
Good theory.
This is very valid. Engine no 3 was on fire, and on any 4 engine aircraft, engine 3 is the closest one to the body on the right wing.
My words exactly! :)
It's videos like this that shows why TH-cam should have documentary awards.
Thanks; this is a great documentary. It is evident a lot of diligence went into putting it together.
The loss of Flight 7 is a mystery with multiple motives and possible explanations. The well-documented propeller and engine problems of the 377 resulted in the loss of several aircraft, but the conflict of interest situation between the CAB and Boeing in this situation is one I’d never heard of; the same for the potential insurance motives.
The US Air Force flew a variant of the Stratocruiser design as the KC-97 aerial tanker for years; I wonder if they experienced the same engine and propellor difficulties.
On a related note. I knew a woman in California who as a girl was a passenger aboard Pan Am Flight 6, that successfully ditched en route from HAWAII to San Francisco near weather station NOVEMBER in 1956. She had quite a story to tell about that experience.
this was wonderfullu researched and presented. i'll be waiting for the next flight mystery you cover :+)
I'm consulting with my 98 yo Grandpa who was an aircraft mechanic at Boeing and is very familiar with this type of aircraft. There was something you said about the transcript of the Flight which just didn't jive if that was accurate. It was about the "J arm missing, tail..." line that caught his attention. When I get more info I'll get back at y'all...
I am following this. This is my following dot. You may touch it it you like. •
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Also around 43:22 "number on fire" probably has a word missing. Pilots refer to their engines as numbers, from left to right. If you're in a pilot's seat, on your left would be engine 1, on your right would be engine two (on a two engine plane.) I think it's likely they were stating that one of their engines were on fire. This is still how it's reported to this day.
False, an "E" is a letter not a word.
@@rastiga9196 ?
@@rastiga9196 What?
@@rastiga9196 No it is a word. It is the name of a party drug. As in the song 'Sorted for E's and Whizz' by Pulp. E refers to Ecstasy and Whizz refers to Speed. Many a time I have heard 'do you want an E'? or '£5 for an E? You are having a Giraffe my son.' I have gone up in the world since those days, I now snort Gin. It is cheaper and gives me an excuse for being cross-eyed. No idea why I am still single though....
It's amazing anyone flew in those days, when crashes were a routine thing, 10-20 per year with far, far fewer flights than today.
I'm grateful the aviation industry eventually realized that covering up the cause of the crash was worse for business than actually investigating then and reducing their frequency.
I wish the auto industry would get on board with aviation's safety model.
Interesting fact for what it's worth: my late father in law worked for pan am at that time and had decided to take his wife and 3 year old daughter ( my wife) to visit his mother and two brothers in Australia. They were entitled to cheap flights on a standby basis and were due to take this actual flight. At the last moment a full fare passenger booked a seat, meaning that they would not be able to travel all together, so my FIL decided to wait for the next flight and they had a few days in a pan am hotel in SF. Except of course for him, as when the reports started coming in of an overdue and then missing aircraft, as the weight and balance officer who had done the calculations for this plane, he spent a few days with the investigators going over his calculations until they decided he was not partially to blame for a plane loss. They got the next flight to Oz a few days later. The story going around at the time which he felt was the most likely cause was an overspeed of one of the supercharged, turbocharged engines (apparently a common problem with those engines). The rest of the story he never found out. His name was Maurice Kelly and his luck finally ran out in April 2009, aged 86 from flu. RIP dad.
As someone with a lit of family working in airlines through the years, pan am's penny pinching is anything but news. What really surprised me is an airline thinking a trans-pacific flight with only 36 passengers could ever be profitable
Unless one or more of those thirty-six bought the rest of the tickets for themselves for reasons.
Weren't ticket prices much higher in the 50s especially? I had assumed these were fairly wealthy people for the time.
It's inflation, combined with improvements in technological efficiency in air travel. In the 1950s, a flight from Phoenix to Chicago cost about $138. That's $1,168 in today's money. By way of comparison, the average annual income in 1957 was about $4,500. A house cost $10,000. Gas was 24 cents a gallon.
Phoenix and Chicago are 1,753 miles apart. So that's about 8 cents a mile. Hawaii is about 4,864 from California, so we can speculate that a flight might cost about $389 in 1957 dollars. That's 8% of the average annual salary. Median income in 2019 in the US was about $36,000. 8% of that is $2,880. So imagine your flight to Hawaii cost about $2,880 in today's money. That's a lot of money.
If this were a mystery novel, the twist would be that it's all true. Everyone involved was either a fraudster, a hijacker, or never even got on the plane, and then Pan Am staged a coverup. At some point over the Pacific everyone all at once got up and started pulling out their guns, bombs, parachutes, etc., and then looked at each other like "wait, wtf are you doing? I was going to do that".
I gotta say I love the ad on this one!! I know! Love? An? Ad? But YES! I love learning fun lil factoids and blips of new information!! And now I know why I can’t say “omnipotent” without stopping and thinking for a split sec🤦♀️
Thanks!!
My dad was a PanAm captain flying out of New York and I was 12 years old, living in Connecticut, when this occurred. We had flown from SFO to Oahu 3 years earlier. My parents never mentioned this incident and now I know why💁🏼♀️🙏
If the passengers were walking around the cabin at impact, and the impact was hard enough to leave marks from seat belts, the passengers would have been thrown around the cabin and almost certainly have shown evidence of severe impacts.
We were stopped at a stop sign when a motorcycle hit our mini van from the rear corner at 10mph. The driver had a scratch, but my 3 year old had bruises on both hips from her seatbelt... (90s, frontseat, no childseat). I'm certain the stop dropped and rolled as they saw the ocean approaching. Also in the 50s, even the 80s when I was flying commercial, the flight deck door was often open to the passenger area. The pilots had to be "oh jeez, shucks and maybe even a "damn" ! Indicating the seriousness of the ocean in the preview windows
I have to truly commend you on investigating this accident, particularly to the survivorship bias. I am a private pilot who, to better my own flying, studies almost every modern day accident from airliners to general aviation. I don’t know what your experience or knowledge of aviation is but this is by far one of the best reports I’ve seen. Bravo. In today’s training we are taught that a multi engine aircraft suffering a single engine flameout or loss of a single engine is almost never a true disaster. This is why you see so many videos and stories of 737s or similar having catastrophic fires almost always landing with no injuries or casualties. You can almost always rely on a single engine. Even in single engine aircraft, if you’re high enough, you can usually “glide” at what’s known as Best glide speed and make it down safely. Bravo on your investigation.
Do yo know Mentour Pilot's channel ?
Such a fascinating story, well told!