@@A220-enjoyer Petter has recently revealed that he left the employ of Ryanair a year ago and is now a full-time TH-camr and online trainer. This was a bizarre and highly questionable choice since it will inevitably mean that he is no longer really "speaking from within the aviation industry" and is becoming unable to establish fully objective and credible responses to current developments in that sector. A shame, because Mentour Pilot was formerly taken quite seriously as a barometer of the strengths and weaknesses of Airline Operations, and is now losing much of that status. Unfortunately, much of the "aviation internet" is now biased towards entertainment, juvenile approaches and hyperbole, and many knowledgeable people are cancelling their Subscriptions to such Channels. My Firm is now spending very little time perusing such Content, and will soon be withdrawing entirely from TH-cam and other so-called "social media", in search of more substantial and worthwhile content.
The refueling of the aircraft was not the cause of the fatal accident, but the tower actually allowed two giant aircraft to move on the same runway at the same time in the thick fog, invisible to all three parties, creating room for the crew to make mistakes!
I was a flight attendant for Pan AM at that time . That night I flew to Brazil( Rio de Janeiro) two of my friends were working that flight and both of them didn't survive. I learned of the tragedy late in the afternoon while I checked with the hotel lobby of any changes to my schedule. The clerk informed me of the tragedy. It was a sad time for all of us at Pan AM. I still think about my friends. Rip Carol Thomas and Miguel Torrech my dear friends. I can't believe that I am still around after all these years. I quit Pan am in 1982 and went back to the university for a master degree and became and educator. It was a wonderful time my ten years with Pan AM,. I saw the world and became a better person . Thanks to all those who made it possible for me to have had such a wonderful experience. Soon I will see my friends, again. May God bless them all.
You have made an excellent documentary about the accident on Tenerife. Thank you for your expertise. I am a survivor of this accident. I am 1 of 75 initial survivors and was 1 of 14 walking survivors who were treated at Candelario Hospital and released. In addition, I am 1 of 2 photographers that Sunnday afternoon. The post impact photo that is in this video is one of mine. I give you my permission to use it. (My film was stolen by a Dutch fellow named Hans Hofman who sold copies in western Europe.) I was sitting in 30C, the row in front of the exit door over the wing. Upon impact, part of the ceiling disappeared and I climbed out of the hole above my seat onto the left wing. I found a woman on the wing sliding towards the inboard engine which was on fire. I pulled her further out on the wing, tossed her off the leading edge, jumped off and ran. Once I got away I stopped and looked back. Then I saw KLM and realized they had run ito us. Just then a fireball exploded on the wingtip of Pan Am and the whole plane caught on fire. I ran further away then stopped and took 5 photos of the plane to document what I was seeing. In 2015 I released a book about my experience and more titled "Never Wait for the Fire Truck" by David Yeager Alexander which is available on Amazon. I also wrote about aircraft interior safety and runway safety. Also, I was interviewed by Jon Ziomek for his book, shown in your video, titled "Collision On Tenerife". Thanks again for your good work.
Dear David, sir, @David_Alexander you are evidently one of history's heros, as well as a resource of primary source history. It was interesting to me when also just now reading about how your fearlessness in flying again, immediately, was not deemed consistent with PTSD - while, as a prior PTSD sufferer myself, this is now known to be one of the early symptoms of it. Could the Jeff Bridges movie Fearless have been influenced by your shared revelations of the delay in your apparent symptoms in that era? By the way, were there also further aircraft behind yours in the queue behind their refuelling? Either way I guess no 747 could in those days do a standing 180 degree turn without a tow-truck: it makes no sense to me that ATC insisted on their idea of a taxiing route! So ridiculous to allow two planes on the runway, even for a second! But, did you ever hear from the woman you saved? ✈
This was one hell of a bad accident, I can’t begin to imagine what you felt, heard & saw that day. I know that every crash is a lesson learned to ensure safer air travel. In fact, the documentary series, Air Crash Investigation helped me overcome my fear of flying. I hope some good came from this crash for you too. I look forward to reading your book, too All the best, from Australia
I was there also, but I was going down the steps of my aircraft as the crash happened. I astonished that anyone survived the crash, my experience of that day pales into insignificance by comparison to yours.
I have your book and it's an excellent, well written account that I couldn't put down - I recommend it to anyone interested in this terrible event. I hope you are continuing to do well, as the book indicates?
Many years ago when I was a kid… I believe it was a 737 we were in.. we were about to land in Switzerland and just before the landing gear touched the runway the pilot violently pulled up. So hard it physically hurt and harder than you’d ever guess a commercial jet could maneuver. A bunch of people screamed. It was because someone made a mistake and another plane started crossing the runway in front of us. Shout out to that pilot 🤞
I was aboard a Cathay Pacific flight from HKG to Bangkok. On approach we were only meters above the runway when the Australian pilot violently pulled up...my neck cracked and there were some screams. It seems that a Thai Airways flight had been crossing our runway. We were only maybe 10 seconds from collision. The Aussie pilot announced through the loud speaker that we almost had a collision He was Very pissed off!
I had the the same thing happen in the early 90s in Florida. A PIC who is focused and situationally aware will be ready and react in a split second. Kudos to all of the talented hard working pilots.
The surviving flight attendants on the pan am were heroes. One of them was literally throwing people off the wing because they were hesitating and she knew they would die if they didnt jump. If the pan am crew didnt turn when they would have lost everyone
Such an unfortunate incident, weather was poor, fog, rain, temps dropping. A very slow trek on the runway, could not see one another, the tower could not where any planes were. Unfortunate they did not have ground radar, if so, they could now exactly where they were. No centerline lighting, inoperatalbe. So many ifs, repeating myself, just take a look see at previous comments. So many lives lost, an incident that very well could have been a preventable one.
As an engineer, I understand how design evolves over time and you learn from your design being in use. You can never predict all scenarios, but I’m a bit taken aback by how so many accidents have made the airline industry evolve to be safer. Some of the changes should have been implemented from the start like clear taxiway markings. Such a basic item that might have helped avoid this collision. There will always be the human factor, but I just don’t understand how some basic design principles aren’t implemented until there is an accident.
@@daCubanaqt I actually just commented on several recent near misses, that could have ended in a similar fashion, which could easily be resolved with the implementation of a GPS System at all Airports, that would allow all pilots to see where other Airplanes are in the Airport, in relation to them, etc. This seems obvious to me, but as we all know, more often than not, changes aren't made until there is another accident and more loss of life.
Captain Van Zanten's picture was used in KLM's ads and he was so highly regarded that the Dutch investigators tried to contact him to assist in their investigation, not knowing that he was in command of that fateful 747.
Why is everyone ignoring that the pilot had the choice between rushing, court and staying at an airport where a terrorist attack just took place. It is basically choosing between three bad things and he decided to take the worst one under a chain of horrible events.
It is absolutely heartbreaking to consider how Captain Van Zanten’s urge to get home to his family contributed in part to their losing him. As trivial as it sounds, the saying is true: “An unguarded minute has an accident in it.” Thanks as always for your thorough, respectful, insightful analysis.
It wasn't so much an urge to get home to his family. It was more the strict rules the Dutch Government had put in place regarding hours flight crews were allowed to work. He wasn't to get home, yes. However, his overriding concern was getting into legal trouble for exceeding hours in the air as they would be flying back to the Netherlands after Los Palmas.
I knew the Pan Am Co-Pilot Bob Bragg quite well. He was injured but eventually went back to work. The Captain of the Pan Am flight, Victor Grubbs, did fly again, but the weight he carried at the loss of his passengers weighed heavily on him until he died.
I once was on a commuter train during a prolonged delay, and happened to be seated adjacent to where one of the conductors was standing. I struck up a conversation with him, and eventually asked why we'd been sitting there for so long. This was the busiest rail corridor in the US, and such delays are rare. He told me that someone had deliberately walked out onto the track in front of another train, killing himself. I wasn't expecting that, but what really stuck with me was this: He said that he knew another engineer who had been involved in a similar incident. Someone had walked out onto the track well ahead of his train. He applied the emergency brake, but there was nowhere near enough distance to stop; commuter trains on this line go up to at least 79mph. The conductor told me that the experience of sitting there, watching over many seconds, powerless to do anything, as his train plowed right into this person absolutely wrecked this guy's life. He fell into a severe depression, and there was no way he'd ever drive a train again. Now, thinking of this disaster, I can't begin to imagine how the surviving crew felt.
Okay why do we have to keep changing words?? Why are we saying stupid things like “unalive”, or “ birthgivers”, and “ chestfeeders”. Can we not just stick to what they have always been!!
The somewhat awkward part of this accident was when this happened, KLM immediately suggested putting Jacob van Zaanten on the investigation team to help understand what happened. ...which well... they couldn't.
These stories haunt me in a bad way for a while until they haunt me in a good way. The irony that the Dutch pilot was hurrying to get home to his wife is one of those lessons I'll take to heart the next time I'm behind the wheel of a car rushing to get somewhere. We know we all do it. Better late than never.
@@agps4418 And there's a karmic lesson from the American crew who mocked the Dutch captain, they are the ones who survived to live with the horrific memories. They probably never laughed at anything again.
As I have mentioned before I spent 30 years as an airline pilot and nearly 40 years working in the technical arena. This accident happened during that time so I was and am pretty well informed about the event. It is rare for me to read or watch an account of an aircraft accident in which I can find no error of fact or interpretation but this, as in your other videos, is an exception. Your ability to convey the significant points of an accident concisely and accurately is remarkable. Congratulations and thank you.
"Error of fact", OK, but interpretation is by definition subjective. The only reason you think the other guy is making any error of interpretation is because he has a different interpretation than you. And he thinks the same the other way around. If it weren't a matter of opinion, it would be a matter of fact. "Error" doesn't really apply.
@@jursamaj Subjective doesn't mean every thing is correct. An interpretation often requires knowledge beyond the simple facts given to gain understanding, you have to understand the environment that is in. Tenerife for example is within the environment of the 1970's both in the environment of the islands (the reason behind the bombing), and the airline industry as a whole. There can also just be facts missing from an interpretation, either deliberately removed, not known about or not understanding the importance of. All of these can cause an interpretation to be incorrect, or just lacking.
To think that it could have been avoided by the KLM captain simply asking on the frequency, "PanAm, are you clear of the runway?" I know it's not SOP for aircraft to talk directly to each other, but under these conditions, given the poor visibility, the confusion, and the language problems with the controller, it seems like a perfectly reasonable thing to do.
Yeah, the lack of simple communications seem like part of the problem. I'm sure that if you eliminated the controller, the Pan Am crew could have gotten through to the KLM captain what his own crew kept trying but failing to communicate, that they were still on the runway. My first question on hearing of accidents like this used to be whether the aircraft involved were on separate frequencies or not. Can't believe they are on the same ones but just don't hear the obvious.
It seems like the KLM captain, Van Zanten, thought he was above doing things like that. The impression I get is of a man who was full of his own self importance and king of his domain. That's why his first officer and flight engineer didn't say anything about what he was doing or question his actions. I'm pretty sure that they knew he was not following correct procedures and was in the wrong but didn't say that. If only they did. If only they had tried to overrule Van Zanten and took over the flight controls. Yes they might have been fired, but at least they would have still been alive to get another job. 583 people wouldn't have unnecessarily perished either. The fact that this disaster was so avoidable and unnecessary, and was due in a big part to someone's huge ego, is even worse.
As a pilot student from tenerife, los rodeos has been my training airport since flight hour 0, such a sad event that occurred there, they will never be forgotten. Thanks for telling the story in such a profesional way
Approximately 2 years after the accident, I had the opportunity to listen to a Pan Am survivor speak about how she was able to escape the burning aircraft. The one thing I most remember her talking about during her lecture was the intense heat and how many people she witnessed being burned to death. She was among those who had to make that 6-meter jump, during which she broke her ankle. She was one of the lucky ones.
Very sad and unnerving. A surviving Flight Attendant spoke to the professional investigator as to why many of the passengers remained seated in the American 747. The reason was that the oxygen in the casing was quickly consumed by the fire. The passengers basically fell unconscious. So thankfully they did not feel being burned to death.
I started secondary school in 1977, after the summer holidays, so about 5 months after the Tenerife disaster. One of our teachers sometimes brought his daughter with him to school, she must have been about 4 years old at the time, I think. Only months later I heard why her dad brought her with him whenever she had a day off from primary school. Turned out that her mom, our teacher's wife, was one of the KLM flight attendants on the Tenerife KLM flight. The little girl probably didn't want to be anywhere else than with her dad! She was so loved by all teenage schoolkids, we played games with her and tried to give her a great day whenever her dad brought her with him into our school. I will never ever forget that and it still brings tears to my eyes.
Beautiful story in midst of tragedy. Love that your teacher brought his little girl and that you all loved her. Special place in heaven for people like you and your classmates. 💖🙏
I started Grammar school a year earlier,My Biology teacher lost his parents on the KLM flight,I still remember his disbelief and shock,when he informed us,we loved him more for the rest of our time with him.
Actually I read -and in her interview - they did NOT give Robina van Lanschot permission to not board. She was firmly told she must board that KLM flight. She left her ticket at the counter and walked out of the airport. (As I understand her interview , I believe she pretended to board with her friend so they wouldn’t notice she actually was not going to board.)She loved her boyfriend so much so stayed . There’s another TH-cam about this crash where she tells her story. Yes, she suffers with survivors guilt. Poor woman. Last I read, she is still with her boyfriend. I believe they’re married.
The worst part of her story is that her friends/coworkers died in the incident, so she basically waved goodbye to them while pretending to board. While love saved her, I assume she still holds grief and guilt about not being able to save her friends.
@@kibaanazuka332 the only guilt she should hold is her friends saving her by not boarding. she wouldn't have saved them if she boarded. unless you apply the notion of "butterfly effect".
Sure she may feel bad, but I hope she has or will let go of any guilt. Boundaries? It saved her life. She now married. That sounds angry, I'm not. Its a typical feeling that she of course will or may feel bad but the general public should not but only of support of her own lose.
@@PurpleHaze4me Survivor's guilt is inherently illogical, that doesn't make it any less real or depressing. I have experienced a few very minor (not related to death) sets of survivor's guilt due to a number of circumstances in which those around me had something bad happen to them but I did not. It feels awful enough with such low stakes, and hard to shake too. I can only imagine how horrible it must feel in relation to actual death.
so frustrating to listen to. the ambiguity in the communication, the assumptions made, and the KLM crew. most frustrating part is the KLM copilot and engineer both have a bad feeling that they shouldn't be taking off, both speak up to the pilot, but both do so in an unconfident way that fails to curb the pilot's misplaced confidence. it's very relatable. i absolutely hate that feeling when i know something bad is about to happen, i try to speak up about it, but someone with more experience or authority than me just dismisses my concerns because it's not what they want to hear
Learn how to speak your mind then. Just because you have a feeling doesn t mean i should listen to it, because most of the times is just a feeling. Articulate and maybe someone will listen. Even better, you can become that person that you speak about if you do the things right. Good luck!
An eerie thing is about 70-75 passengers for the cruise couldn’t get tickets for the Pan Am flight, so made their own travel arrangements. After the accident the cruise still went ahead with these few people. These people talked about seeing corridors full of doors to cabins with keys hanging on the door handles, waiting for passengers who would never arrive
I saw a documentary about this one. The girl that didn’t go, they talked to her. She and her then boyfriend were still married at the time the doc was made. They also talked to an airport worker who chased down all the KLM passengers that had wondered off in the terminal. He says the guilt is still haunting him. He was just doing his job. How was he to know this would happen.
That’s gotta be haunting. I mean he did nothing wrong. He in fact did the right thing and got the passengers back to their plane. You could never expect something like that.
Do you remember the name of the documentary? Sounds interesting. Although it is tragic how that airport worker was unknowingly directing the passengers to their death. Poor guy
I'm baffled as to why it needed this accident for the authorities to realise that it's necessary to have an unambiguous procedure for obtaining take-off clearance.
For myself, I'm wondering why they would ever think it would be okay to have no central lighting or ground radar on a runway infamous for terrible visibility!
This happened the year I was born. I'm a software engineer nerd really appreciate your technical knowledge and detail, please don't ever "dumb down" the tech stuff it's why I watch your channel!!
At the time of this accident I was a Pan Am flight attendant. I remember the captain and first officer well. A couple of flight attendants I knew survived. This disaster rocked us as crew members to the core. Watching this video 45 years later, still brings me to tears. Like all aircraft disasters, it’s never just one event but a confluence of events any one of which might have changed the outcome. But the overriding cause I see, was the impatience of the KLM captain. I learned when flying in the ‘70’s, one needed to have patience above all and be flexible. One never knew what events would conspire to disrupt one’s intended plans. I’m still gobsmacked that captain after his long career was not prepared to be more patient. It would have saved his own life and almost 600 other souls. RIP my friends. Well done video. Thank you.
Your voice is so calming in a HORRIFIC situation and you answering pretty much any question all of would be asking. Your demeanor is extremely impressive!!!
Every accident I've ever read about was a chain of specific events that, if interfered with, would have prevented tragedy. From this I have concluded we are always one or two links away from disaster. We just don't always realize it.
Yeah, he just made it sound dramatic. Well, this tragedy is the personification of drama, but you get my point. Just crossing a busy road can result in a chain event that gets you tossed.
I have seen at least 3 recreations / documentaries on Tenerife. Today I learned that the "fog" wasn't really fog and that a new, safer airport was very nearly available on the island. Amazing! Thank you Petter.
now I kind of feel lucky that I only ever experienced the southern airport during my stays on Tenerife even though I had to travel by transfer bus to and from our hotel in the north.
@@6666Imperator theres a told tale between tenerife locals that says that the arquitect that was tasked with finding a place for the noth airport died before presenting his work leaving behind a map with an x where the north airport is at nowadays, people joke about it saying that the x simbolised the ONLY spot where it shouldnt have been created
@mikebronicki8264 First thing is correct: It's not "fog" as usual but low level clouds. - Second thing is false: The other Tenerife airport you are talking about (Tenerife South) was opened in 1978 October, more than one year after the crash.
I was in the third airplane, an Iberia airplane that was following the KLM from Gran Canaria to Tenerife because of the bomb scare. When our pilot was landing in Tenerife he immediately, after touching ground, went up back into the sky. So many years later I still remember being strapped to my seat and feeling the plane go up and after several moments the pilot said that we were going back to Las Palmas. We landed in Las Palmas, the plane stopped at the old airport and people were running towards the plane, including my parents (I was 14 at the time and travelling alone). My parents didn’t mention the accident but when they started to receive condolences letters from friends thinking that I was in the KLM plane as I am Dutch, they explained about the bomb scare in the airport of Las Palmas, the crash and the fact that people waiting for their loved ones didn’t know which plane had crashed, KLM or Iberia. I can’t imagine the distress of the people who were waiting for their loved ones in the KLM plane. I can forever thank the pilot.
Yes, it is very true until that accident questions are asked how and why it happened. From my own exoerience a sudden changed of weather in wind speed and cloud concentration, twice we landed in another island without live engine. Pilots were very experienced and one hour passed we took off to shelter our shelves before our flight to the scheduled destination. Again, we heed to. another island and we lost the two engines from running again. Curiousity , I. wonder around and ended opening the door leading to the captains galley ..and then. ? THE ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE AIR HOSTESS : All passengers please be seated and strap your seat belts as we glide landing. And so I did. go back to my seat and strap my seat belt. My plane was DC -48 a very. strong plane and. twice landed on HEAVY. STORM .. LANDED SAFELY WITHOUT ANY INJURED PASSENGER. FOR EVERY ACCIDENT OR. NEAR MISSES , THERE ARE REASONS UNKNOWN UNTILTHE IMPACT.. SAD BUT TRUE..🔰🔰🔰🔰🔰
How quickly does the post in Las Palmas work for people to have heard of the tragedy, figure that you might be on the flight, wrote a letter, send it and have it delivered in the 30 minutes it takes for the flight from Tenerife to Las Palmas?
I'm trying to figure out what you're saying: so, your plane was one of the last of the redirected planes to arrive at Tenerife. And your plane was supposed to land right after the KLM had taken off, then get at the end of the line of the planes that were waiting to take off at that point - all of which would have landed at Las Palmas before your flight (had there been no bombing). Basically the ATC at Las Palmas decided to not let your plane "cut in line" just because you were in the air when Los Palmas ATC had resumed operations. Your pilot touched down - saw the wreckage/fire - then immediately executed a go around that ended up with you landing at Las Palmas.....having "cut in line" anyway, because of the crash. I'm not calling you a liar or anything like that: I'm just slightly autistic and my brain has to figure out all the mechanics of something like your story or it drives me nuts. I'm guessing English is a second language for you and you're having a little problem writing what happened to you in a way a natural speaker of the language would. Don't get me wrong: your English is excellent....just not perfectly fluent.
I can remember when this happened. My family and I used to holiday regularly on the Canaries and it was shaking news to hear about. However it wasn’t explained anywhere near as well as this and until I saw this, I could never understand how this could’ve happened. Not only are you teaching pilots, you’re helping passengers understand more about what goes in to getting the plane in and out of the air safely.
I heard an interesting fact that KLM actually went looking for the captain since he was SO experienced and respected and pretty much the face of KLM (his picture was on billboards). They wanted him to get to the scene to figure out what had happened. They soon realized it was him who caused the crash… This was a fantastic, comprehensive account of all details of this catastrophic event. Thank you for your dedication! Like many have said already, you deserve your own show!
Sounds like one of these sensationalizing versions of the story. Airlines need to be extremely organized so they knew full well who was captain on that flight.
@@tabby7189 I believe that's what they said in the Mayday (Air Crash Investigations) episode about this disaster. Don't know if it's true, but it's probably where the other guy heard it.
@@tabby7189 The unique thing about both the Pan Am and the KLM were that they were both charter flights. Pan Am was for people going on a cruise around the Canary Islands (and most of them were older people) and the KLM was chartered by a tourism company (and I think the lone survivor worked for it) and had mostly younger passengers including children. I flew a charter flight once with Iberia and to a passenger it doesn't seem much different but I don't know administratively how they are run by airlines. At that point van Zanten was spending most of his time doing simulator training and I think his flying time per month was less than 20 hours according to one account. I tended to be skeptical that they were looking for him (though I can understand that it's very possible that they would select him) but who knows? I think the accident shocked a lot of people with both airlines. I think the most important thing that came out of it was the issue of cockpit resource management and how to address any shortcomings and to improve it. I think it's had a great impact. JetBlue's landing gear situation and United Airlines 232 (which is the case most often cited) among others.
Actually, KLM has always strongly disputed the findings of the investigative reports (both the Spanish authorities and The Airline Pilots Association (ALPA), which place the immediate cause of the collision on Van Zanten's actions in starting his take off roll without clearance. Also, while Van Zanten was KLM's most senior pilot, the fact he was in command of this particular flight was purely a coincidence.
@@sct913 They sure did and continued to run ads claiming they never had a fatal accident even after Tenarife, their argument being it was a charter flight and thus didn't count. But it's not uncommon for disputes to happen in investigations and there's the option of a minority report like happened in PSA 182 (1978), SilkAir 185 (1997), Egypt Air 990 (1999) and some others. The NTSB also took the nearly unprecedented step of releasing/leaking black box information on China Eastern 5735 (2022) even though it wasn't the leading agency involved in that investigation. Disputing investigations when there's more than one agency involved (which can happen according to the agreement airlines work on when determining jurisdiction for the investigation and all parties that can participate in that) happen. Particularly in cases like SilkAir, Egypt Air and to an extent, Malaysian Air. I assume the NTSB possibly released that information in anticipation of a similar issue with China Eastern but that's just speculation. SilkAir had the advantage of actually having a lawsuit by the families of passengers filed against Boeing (in relation to the documented (and fatal in two out of three documented cases) servovalve issues with its 737-200/300 series. And Boeing received a trial verdict against it siding with the families. Albeit from a trial where not all evidence was allowed. From what I've researched of Tenarife (which took the life of 583 including the mother of a family friend) is that there were a chain of events that took place that led to that crash. For example, take out the terrorist threat/bombing at Las Palmas Airport from the equation and it probably would have never happened yet you can't write in a report that the terrorists caused it by initating the chain of events because that's not accurate. Sp anish ATF and both airliners, were major factors as was the weather and issues with Tenarife's ability to handle a larger load of planes including two 747s. What is true is that the KLM flight was a charter flight (as PAN AM flight was) not regular service. What is true is that Capt. Van Zanten was the Captain on that flight. What is also true is that at least one of the three member crew, the first officer was certified by him. What was true is that he was considered to be KLM's most senior and venerated pilot, and was literally the face of KLM (on billboards). What appears to be true is that he was the one that was sought out to be assigned to the investigation team. Some doubt exists because there's an assumption that they would not seek him out b/c they would already know he was dead but it's possibly true. Charter flight. Lots of confusion after a plane crash with fatalities especially when post crash fire is involved. Van Zanten took off without clearance. Even if there'd been a sound distortion impacting communications that doesn't equal clearance. The Pan Am crew seemed disoriented from the fog that blew in off the mountain which can happen quickly in Tenarife. Was it even appropriate for the ATF to authorize taxis and takeoffs on an active runway in conditions of such low visibility? Was ATF distracted by a televised soccer game (and wouldn't the sterile cockpit rules apply to a sterile ATF room(s))? How much active flying time (outside a simulator) did Van Zanten have in an average month and in the months preceding the crash? What is Simulator Adaption Syndrome and did it play a role? It seems to be clear that at least with KLM, the penalties towards going past authorized flying/duty hours might have factored into Van Zanten and his crew's state of mind. They are human beings not machines. One major development that came out of the Tenarife disaster was Crew Resource Management, which imo is one of the most important improvements made. United 232, US Airways 1549, Southwest 1380 and others have helped show how that can work during a crisis. And the thousands every day we don't learn about.
There was this one time when my mom and I were going to Zurich, I believe. It was many years ago and it’s beginning to get blurry… So we were on our way to Zurich and about to land. The plane suddenly went up, like VERY violently. I never thought a commercial jet could do that. Turns out a plane was taxiing on the runway we were going to land on. So yeah, thanks to the pilot for saving our lives 😅
That happened to me on my last flight when we were about to land. It didn't go up violently, but you could definitely feel it when it did. It was very sudden.
I was in Zurich when Swissair 111 went down in Peggy’s Cove. We had flown in on that beautiful plane the prior Sunday, the most sophisticated, cosmopolitan flight I’d ever been on. Our Swiss cousins from the Bay area were likewise in the air and due to land in Zurich that day. My Aunt went to meet them. (I can’t recall when exactly they were told of 111’s tragedy but I don’t think it was while they were still in the air.) Our host’s good friend had just retired from Swissair Administration and we all sat at the kitchen table while she agonized over the crash report. She was vehement that it could not be pilot error (and she was correct of course). That weekend we went to Geneva and the flags were half mast. The cathedral had just concluded a memorial mass with cameras with tiny votive candles for each victim from Geneva. 🙈 So, we got home safely and I have never flown again.
As a professional instructor pilot on the 747 for over 25 years I used this accident as a reference many times. We studied it thoroughly and applied the lessons learned in CRM classes. Now a vital and compulsory class for both pilots and cabin crew. Well done on this explanation I have not seen better.
I think better psych screening is the way to deal with these possibilities. Regular reviews and the willingness to ground stressed pilots. You can't really teach people not to be impatient nut jobs.
I have watched a documentary on the "Air Disasters" program seen here in the US on Smithsonian Channel. This version of the events save for a few details is nearly identical. Seeing these depictions of the events, leaves me frustrated. Let me preface by saying I have two former ATC's in my family. I am quite an aviation buff. And so on. Once the aspects of this incident leads me to ask, why with such low visibility was not the airport not placed in a stop all traffic status? Failing that, the CVR transcripts as described indicate to me an abject failure to adhere to standards and practices of communication between aircraft crew and Controllers. Also, the use of non standard language seems to be a major issue. IMO this accident was absolutely avoidable if those who were in charge of both the tower and the KLM flight had just adhered to procedures.
@@LeolaGlamour It was not KLM it was a new law of the Dutch Government at that time which had the intention to promote air safety with making sure that the pilots are not tired - but which had in this special case consequences nobody had thought on - what teaches that even the best intentions can cause horrible results.
The first time I heard about this disaster was during a workshop about CRM in medical school. It's quite fascinating how much we in healthcare can learn from aviation even though it's technically a totally different field.
The checklist systems were installed at about the same time. Both cultures (surgery + aviation) were highly resistant, despite obvious statistical evidence that adding checklists + overriding "senior in charge" with the checks saved lots of lives in both disciplines.
I really appreciate that you don't focus on Van Zanten exclusively. It's clear that there were real CRM and ATC errors before the crash, yet many videos focus almost completely on Van Zanten. Your point about the first officer being highly experienced and the cockpit clearly not being the completely authoritarian situation that has sometimes been described is so important.
I dont think there has to be completely authoritarian for the scenario to happen, as its not written rules that lead to that environment. I dont know if its bias from how its normally presented, but I think that Van Zanten's high regard and others not questioning his seniority, and the rules KLM had in place and him wanting to follow them are a large part of the fault. If that one rule hadnt been in his mind so strongly, and the penalty being so strict none of this would have likely happened.
@@witchy90210 The rules are designed to prevent pilots from being overworked and flying without enough rest. Many accidents in the past were caused by pilots being fatigued, or at least that played a major role. In this case the captain took off without receiving takeoff clearance, which is something that is extremely dangerous and has a high probability of causing an accident, as it did in this case. You seem to be suggesting that they should eliminate the work hours rule and go back to having tired and overworked pilots just because of what this one pilot did.
@@StevePemberton2 The other commenter didn't suggest that at all. That's a real "so you hate waffles?" response. There's a difference between having limits on flight time, which is obviously necessary, and exposing pilots to personal criminal liability for breaching the flight time restrictions, which is a terrible, counter-productive idea.
@@CrownedWithLaurels You are correct they did not literally say that there should be no rules on work hours. In fact I am quite sure that if asked they would say that they are not against such rules. However rules without any type of enforcement or disincentive are more like guidelines, not laws. And yes I realize that the commenter is likely also not against having some type of disincentive or penalty, in fact they mentioned their opinion that the problem was “the penalty being so strict”. However that was an interesting choice of words, "strict", instead of severe which is what they likely meant. However either word gets to the heart of my point, because severity of punishment and strictness are very much related. It has to do with how important it is for the rule to be followed, i.e what are the possible consequences of someone ignoring the rule. In the case of airline travel it doesn't take much effort to imagine what those consequences might be. The suggestion of the commenter was that the work hours rule did not need to be so strictly enforced, which implies that it’s not quite so serious of an issue that someone needs to go to jail for it. I understand that viewpoint, and there is a valid argument whether criminal penalties are necessary, could other penalties be used such as suspension or demotion. But the other viewpoint on this is that hundreds of lives are depending on the fitness of the flight crew, so to what extent does the strictness of the rule need to be dialed back? And anyway it is extremely unlikely that the captain was worried about going to jail. For one simple reason, all the captain had to do was simply follow the directive given by the dispatcher and not take off from Las Palmas later then they were allowed to, however inconvenient that might be to him and his crew and passengers. Just like you likely don't worry about getting arrested for shoplifting every time you go to a store, because you know that all you have to do to avoid this is not stick something in your pocket or purse and walk out of the store without paying for it. Enforcement at a criminal level would likely occur only if a captain purposed refused to obey a time limit given to them, for example if the captain said to his flight crew, “That’s a stupid rule, I feel fine, we’re going now I don’t care what the rules say”. The pressure that the KLM captain felt, yes because of the rule, was the possibility of his plane getting stuck in Las Palmas overnight. But that is a normal situation for pilots to be in for many types of reasons. For example what if the time constraint was the Las Palmas airport curfew on takeoffs, i.e. a scenario where if they didn't get to Las Palmas soon enough there was a risk of not being able to take off prior to the nightly curfew. In that situation the captain would have felt the exact same pressure, and yet no one would be blaming the Tenerife accident on the inflexibility of the Las Palmas airport. Even if most curfews are solely for neighborhood noise reasons, not safety. The sensationalized idea of jail time for the captain is a red herring in my opinion that distracts from the more important issues in the Tenerife accident. I was replying to the specific commenter’s statement, _“If that one rule hadn’t been in his mind so strongly, and the penalty being so strict none of this would have likely happened.”_ This puts the majority of the blame for the accident on the rule, as if the captain should have been allowed to think that it would be okay to sometimes continue flying after exceeding the work hours limit, as long as they had a good reason for it. In fact this opinion has been stated by many other commentators on this topic. Even though the commenter here did not use those exact words, it is pretty clearly implied by the fact that they put the majority of the blame for the accident on the fact that the captain knew that he was not allowed to violate an important safety law. I don't buy that argument, and that is the opinion that I was expressing.
I'm an active cabin crew, currently working for my third airline. Just want to say that every single time we have CRM (and I had one fairly recently) we talk about the Tenerife accident. The trainers are always stressing "Don't be afraid to speak up." and "Ask if you don't understand something." It's just sad that these things always come up from tragedy.
Yea, as a passenger, I'm very reassured to hear that the airlines are not getting complacent regarding CRM training. So many disasters could've been prevented if this was a thing much earlier :(
@@soulawaken24 Well, I'd say most. Still happens. Look at the 737 Max cases. Both crews had zero communication in a recoverable situation. Both from airlines with terrible training practices and safety records.
I wonder if the FO was too busy by reading back the IFR clearance, unable to speak to the captain again to tell him they are not yet cleared for takeoff? Was it common those days getting the IFR clearance so late when you are already lined up and ready for departure?
Nobody, absolutely nobody, does a better, more thorough, video/documentary than Mentour. Accuracy, detail, empathy and professionalism… he has it all covered. All assembled with top-notch graphics and visuals. You hit it out of the park every time!
@Airliner World It's true what "they" say: When you see something of quality, there was a lot of love put into it! ;) Thank you for the compliments buddy!
This PanAm 747 was the one that made the maiden flight of the new Jumbo Jet in January 1970 from JFK to London Heathrow. I was a 9 year old returning to the States from Milan, IT where my family lived for a few years. On our flight back, we stopped in London on our way to Ireland for a couple days vacation. While taxiing in London, the Captain of our flight pointed out the new Jumbo Jet that had just landed from New York on its maiden flight.
petertarantelli yes the clipper of the skies, at that time, what a beautiful craft. Who could ever imagine for that time an upper level, very innovative for that era.
As an amateur flight enthusiast (professional English professor), I've watched various accounts of this accident many times. I appreciate how your experience as a pilot adds nuance to the story. In the past, so much blame has been laid on the KLM pilot for being impatient, but your explanations make this a much more nuanced situation. Thank you.
@@gibbyjibby0 the pilot is ultimately the only one to blame. He was the one that decided to take off without clearance. Sure you can blame the bomber or the pan-am crew or ATC the police who shut down the first airport, the people searching for the other bombs, etc etc etc etc but by and large they were doing exactly what they were supposed to do… the only one who didn’t was the pilot, and because of that almost 600 people died that day. Because of the nuance you can probably get away without calling him a piece of shit, but I think it’s way too far to put the blame on anyone else in any large capacity. 95% the pilot of the KLM and 5% literally everything else that contributed to this… including that volcano taking about 4% of it.
@Jenalgo I agree it was mostly van zanton's fault for taking off without clearance, but other factors played a part. But, why wish van Zanten (or however his name is spelled) to burn in hell? Are there not far more deserving people to burn? And even so, maybe we should all try to be a little kinder to one another. Including myself become I know I can be gruff and harsh due to the arrogant asses in the world! Anyhow, a little kindness would make the world better. Besides, I'm sure van zanten didn't mean to kill anyone! Ok, rant over!!
It's staggering how many things had to go wrong for this disaster to have happened. It is also sobering to realize that if just one thing had gone right in the long list of things that went wrong, the disaster could have been averted.
Every accident has a chain of events. Breaking a single link will prevent the accident. That's why there's so few aviation accidents these days. We've learned to break that links.
@@laprimaverabycristobalpola4199 Yes, but in this case in a way that you can start to believe in the existence of a devil. Think only about the fact that exactly only the "Okay" from the ATC reached the KLM cockpit. Every statistic would have told you that something like that could happen only one time in a billion cases - but it happened exactly here and then.
I am an audiologist by profession, and I have no knowledge of aviation at all, but I love watching documentaries. I’m so glad I found this channel - not only is it very well-written, the explanation is also very in-depth and easy to follow along. Sure, there might be terminologies that are alien to me, but Mentour Pilot explains it in a very concise manner that others in non-aviation fields can also understand it. I tip my hat to you, sir!! (Subscribed!!)
@@torstenheling3830 So, lemme see. I'm stopped at an intersection. The traffic light is still red. But I just accelerate right into the intersection.... and kill people. But I am not at fault? Try that in front of a judge and jury. See how far that gets you. (btw, don't forget to tell them you thought the light was green)
I work in Orange County (Sna) for AA and yesterday, we had a flight going to Dfw that the captain noticed a problem with the nose gear. The VERY same thing was noticed the day before yesterday with the same AC. The pilot taxied twice and came back twice and told the mechanics that he wasn’t comfortable with taking off. My point being is, if you’re ever on a flight and there is a delay, just remember…there’s always probably a reason for it so, BE PATIENT!
Twenty or so years ago I was a passenger on a flight out of Atlanta bound for Denver. The plane was at the end of the runway waiting to take off when everything was shut down due to an approaching thunderstorm. The captain repeated an old pilot's aphorism, "It's better to be on the ground wishing your were in the air, than in the air wishing you were on the ground." After a delay of about forty-five minutes, which included some hard rain and wind strong enough to rock the stationary plane, we took off. The climb out of Atlanta was a bit bumpy, and the plane made a lot of turns -- steering around the worst of the weather, most likely -- but might have been a lot worse had we not waited.
@@jn8ive60 There was really no opportunity to get off the plane, had I wanted to. It waited on the taxiway or runway (not sure which) the entire time, then took off as soon as the airport was reopened.
@@danwebd4481 This was by far Van Zanten’s fault. Then it was the tower. The error on the part of the Pan Am pilots were minor compared to anything else.
@@danwebd4481 actually during the investigation the pan am would not have been able to initiate that turn, that's why they tried to continue on to the next taxiway, Charlie 4.
I returned to this video in the aftermath of the accident in Japan following the NY earthquake/tsunami. It’s incredible how one or two small things going wrong can lead to such a devastating result
The KLM captain imo was responsible for taking off without unambiguous clearance, but I also blame the extremely bad and unclear communication from the control tower. Good thing that communication and safety equipment such as radar have improved since then.
It is such a tragic accident.A combination of many events and mistakes rather like the Titanic sinking which aviation has a reminder to not be complacement or assume anything.Human error will always exist .Such a preventable accident. This account brings home the depth of grief .
@@phillipgardner5322 Yes, this is tragic. In hindsight, with litterally no visibility and overcrowded small airport it would be wise I think from ATC to ground all planes and screw it. Still, I understand them why they proceeded, in theory the visibility was borderline OK for take offs, and they were under extreme pressure. The backlash would have been awful, they might have lost their jobs if they grounded the planes.
I can understand (if not approve of) the decision to continue operations. But why ATC let those 2 big birds onto the runway at the same time in that visibility, I will _never_ understand.
@@DAOzz83 They had only one runway and the taxi ways were clogged. They thought they were safe. They did not imagine any plane would take off without their clearance.
I remember hearing in this story years ago that directly after the crash KLM actually tried to contact him (as one of the most decorated / experienced pilots with KLM) as a consultant. Before they realized it was actually him flying the plane that crashed.
Yeah it was on air crash investigation, he was one of their star pilots appearing on advertising etc, yet caused this accident due to being impatient and more concerned he would go over his hours.
@@acelectricalsecurity definitely not his fault. The airport ATC had to be the most incompetent people I have ever seen. The airport should've paid for the dead victims since the ATC could barely hold a conversation in English as well as told pan am to take a 150° turn which is impossible for the 747.
As an ATC this is one of the events that we study closely and what is called the swiss cheese effect, all the holes in slices of cheese lining up for disaster. You did a great of covering this horrible situation.
there is no Swiss cheese effect here, Swiss cheese doesn't protect you against a knife. The Knife here was watching football while working, that too in bad weather, no effort ever to improve communication.
@@sweetcarbine Multiple points of failure lining up through systems designed to prevent them. That's pretty much the definition of the "swiss cheese" effect.
I was there and remember it well. The odd thing is about 5 mins after the accident, the skies cleared with crystal clear visibility and sunshine. The smoke could be seen for miles and friends on neighbouring islands also could see it.
It's very depressing to me that even though I obviously knew that the crash already happened, and that the hundreds of people on board those flights were already dead, that I hoped for the entire second half of the video that someone would realize the mistake and that it would be one of those "close calls" instead of full on tragedies.
One thing that has always bugged me is the seemingly poor audio quality of radio communications with aircraft. Now, I suppose like anything, you get used to it over time, and then find it easier to understand. I've heard my share of these radio transmissions, and to this day, find them very hard to understand. I think it's a minor miracle that planes and towers can understand each other at all. Is it just me?
@@Erik_Swiger If there was international agreement to switch to digital radio, with an extra feature to indicate that what you heard had just covered up another transmission coming at the same time: then everyone would a) have much clearer voice reception; b) know another message had been missed. [ So DON'T MAKE ANY CRITICAL MOVE until you have the whole picture! ] If such technology had been available in the mid-'70's it might not have prevented the Tenerife disaster. But if not, it looks like the blame would've been fully on van Zanten's shoulders, plus on his copilot & flight engineer for not wrestling him out of his seat and going to thrust reversers, spoilers + wheel brakes. Maybe even veering to the left, away from where the Pan Am would presumably be, if that seemed safer than continuing straight ahead.
@@fearsomefawkes6724 My dad worked control towers for the RCAF 🇨🇦 in WWII. Even in the '60's he could make sense of words, eg. on AM radio, that were no better than distorted noise to me. So maybe it is a knack that comes with experience.
I stumbled across this video literally while looking at kitten videos and was thoroughly captivated. I can’t believe it was 45 minutes long! Well-researched and -written, well-produced, and excellently narrated. I’ve subscribed to your channel!
There is a documentary account of this accident told in part by the surviving Pan Am crew and sole survivor from the KLM passenger list (who got off the aircraft to stay with her boyfriend) among others directly related to the accident or investigation. The Pan Am captain (or first officer? Anyone?) was extraordinary. A truly wonderful man. Essential watch. It may have been an AirCrash Investigation special or 'the other one''? (Same anyone?). Very possibly the finest work of its type. If you watch that documentary you are left with no doubt who was responsible for the accident. Unlike Mentour Pilot who gives the Dutch Captain an easy time (and a boy scouts pilot badge), here he is portrayed for what I believe he was. A narcissist and accident waiting to happen.
@@martinda7446 - I remember watching that documentary. "sole survivor from the KLM passenger list (who got off the aircraft to stay with her boyfriend)" I remember her too. Poor girl. She and her boyfriend were living on Tenerife. She had asked if she could just stay but the rules said she had to board the plane and go on to Gran Canaria. But as the time ticked by, she made the decision to just not board the plane and her friends agreed to claim her bag in Gran Canaria and return it to her later. Her 'survivor's guilt' must have been immense.
This accident didn’t just involve any old Pan Am 747, it was the very first 747-121 delivered to Pan American World Airways. Named Clipper Victor, it was also the first 747 to be hijacked when on august 2 1970 it was flown to Cuba. At first this 747-121 was named Clipper Young America, but after the hijacking it was renamed Clipper Victor in order to avoid any negative press around the aircraft still continuing passenger service. My heart breaks every single time I hear about this accident. It was all so easily avoidable, and there were far too many lessons learned in a horrific way.
I have R.E.G Davies book Pan Am: An Airline and Its Aircraft, which is awesome because it provides the names of all the Clippers. It is my second favorite of his books (my favorite is his book on Delta, which was written around 1991, and which also features a detailed history of Western, Pacific Northwest, Chicago and Southern and Northeast Airlines, which had merged into what is now Delta between the 1950s and 1985 in the case of Western. I wish they would do an updated version covering Northwest...
@Soul Man : it sure sounds like this particular 747 is jinxed right from the start. Wonder what Boeing did or did not do during manufacturing of this Jumbo... ( would be interesting to go through the details during manufacturing, if it's still available ). 🤔🤫😷
@@bahardin3992 Clipper Victor was the second 747 ever built and the first one delivered. And that´s not the whole story: The first 747 ever built but only later delivered was the 747 who exploded nearby New York in 1996 as a TWA flight. They were two charismatic aircrafts, both with a horrible fate.
My uncle happened to be at the village nearby. He ran up and broke into the airport along with friends to help. Countless hours removing bodies and body parts all over the place. It took him weeks to wash the scent of fuel and flesh away. He still has PTSD, severe loss weight and shortly after became diabetic.
Thank him for me...he and his friends did a valuable service for all...PTSD is a hell of a thing to live with...I hope he's getting counselling to help him. love from Scotland🌹
I love how nicely you covered this accident without blaming anyone. In other videos about this accident they mostly talk about KLM captain and his arrogant personality, it was very nice to hear someone actually explaining his actions and trying to understand why did he do certain things. Amazing video as always!
@@jasongomez5344 Aircrash Investigation is Canadian AFAIK but I also find it really well made. That being said, if I could still slap that KLM pilot across the face, I would.
Well, his actions and attitudes certainly contributed to the mishap but pointing fingers is generally less helpful than aiming for a full understanding of how and why, for future mishap prevention.
I lost my flying career after 18 years due to a back injury and watching your videos makes me grateful that I never hurt anyone or damaged an airplane!
This channel is so special because you have such love and respect for your fellow pilots and crew and caring for what they do. Even in a terrible situation like this, when there were terrible pilot errors, you never get angry at them. You must be one amazing pilot.
I was there! My wife and I were coming down the steps of our plane as the accident happened, right behind us, I actually have a photo of me coming down the steps that someone took. Luckily we weren’t able to actually see the collision, the fog was quite thick which added to the confusion. My overriding memory was the scene which I could see out of the window of our returning flight, 2 weeks later, the blackened wreckage of the 2 Jumbo jets piled up on the edges of the runway. My sympathy goes out to all the relatives affected by the this dreadful accident.
@@ericac.4316 I’m 69 and you are right that life can go on in the blink of an eye. Life can be short too, I lost my wife to leukaemia when she was 44, and she never got to see our 3 children marry and never got to see our 8 grandchildren. Life can be also be cruel, I also have been diagnosed with leukaemia too, thankfully not the aggressive type my wife succumbed to.
Nobody explained such deadliest disaster in very clear manner like you explain sir...every minute details mentioned in this video like what happened previous day, from where the two flights took off, why they diverted to Las Rodeos airport, why the communication went wrong, geoographic background of the airport, pilots conversation and crashing and aftermath...kudos to you and keep up the good work sir
Each line you spoke gave me more and more anxiety, and the anticipation of the accident grew as we reached the end part of what had happened. Every passing minute grew more horrible, as we, as viewers realise that there was such an array of events that made it almost impossible to escape from the horrifying accident. As if it was supposed to happen, now I know I shouldn’t say something like that, but there’s something eerie how fate follows it’s course.
yeah, really love his content but there was another video with faulty landing lights and countless obvious stuff which led to an accident in which people died, I had to click away cause my anger and axiety was on another level
That was a very well put together and researched documentary. My family lived in Madrid Spain at the time of this accident. My father was a LT. Colonel and was stationed at Torrejon Air Force Base as the flight surgeon for the 613th tactical fighter squadron. He was dispatched to Tenerife to assist with the triage and evacuation of survivors. He arranged for the C130 to transport all of the survivors and he also triaged every survivor before they left. The color photos you have in your documentary showing moments after the accident were actually taken by a young child. An independent photographer initially tried to take credit for the photos. However, Time Magazine later discovered the photographer had bought them for $1 from a child who survived the accident.
There's another poster at the top of all comments (at the moment) who says they're his pics. He also wrote a book about his experience:David Alexander "Never wait for the fire truck". He said one of his pics is at 37:13
Many channels cover the same disasters and incidents but what sets you apart for me is the changes that have been made in the industry due to the incident. As an ATSEP working in the aviation I really enjoy the last parts of the video where you get to see the changes made to make aviation safer than what it was before that day. Great work and really appreciate the hard work you put into going through the actual investigation reports.
Superb! Thank you - I was a Pan Am FA hired a year after Tenerife. As you stated, much was learned from that horrible accident, and the lessons were incorporated even into the flight attendant training.
@martamac7789 The flight attendants studied the Teneriffe accident in their annual emergency training courses. A flight attendant pulled a pilot out of the burning wreckage.
My cousin was a flight engineer on a 747-200 around the time this disaster happened. He had infrequently been on a route that took him to Tenerife and was very familiar with the airport. We discussed this disaster in detail. I appreciate the thoroughness of your documentary because I learned a good number of new facts about the incident.
Yeah, that shit with the taxiways never made any sense to me. "yeah never mind the gentle highspeed turn-off on C4, take your 200-foot jet to C3, and make the stupidest possible maneuver known to mankind with it".
I agree, but I think it is important to remember that this was an air traffic controller at a tiny airport on an extremely stressful day. He is used to handling small planes and very few planes at a time, now all of a sudden he has to control these 747s (not to mention the language barrier). Some reports say he also had a football game on the TV in the tower.
Unfortunately the tower was not equipped w/ground radar;no centerline lighting inoperatalbe. Unfortunately this airport was ill equipped to handle to jumbo 747s. They perhaps accustomed to handle smaller crafts. It was a holiday weekend, only two comprollers were on duty. Actually they were intuned to a soccer game on radio; so they may have been distracted. Question is why did not the tower. deny klm to refuel; since they had enough fuel to go back to the reopened area. They could have indeed refuel at reopened airport; to continue onto Shipol Amsterdam airport.
I have seen many videos about this accident, but this is surely the most detailed and extensive video I have seen. Nice work! Also after the accident, the Dutch were actually looking for Van Zanten to help them solve this accident because of his status and experience. Only to find out later he was actually the captain of this doomed flight.
Yes, indeed. Captain van Zanten was also the Security Director of KLM at that time. One of his duties in this capacity was to join the investigation team in behalf of accidents in which KLM-aircrafts were involved.
@@NicolaW72 ironic isnt it? He caused the very accident that he was supposed to investigate. i mean its sad that almost 600 people died, as this could have been easily avoided.
@@kodiak9869 I would call it sadly. The fact that van Zanten was not only the Chief Instructor Pilot for the 747-fleet of KLM at that time but also the Chief Investigator of accidents means that he had all experience and all theoretical knowledge to prevent this crash. But he failed to do so. That shows that huge experience and outstanding knowledge doesn´t prevent a human being for making horrible mistakes.
@@NicolaW72 The time he spent on training other pilots was actually cited as a reason for this accident. He was used to acting as his own ATC and giving himself authorization for takeoff. I can't remember how many flight hours he had in the month leading up to this accident, but it wasn't many at all. Just shows how even the best can get rusty without regular practice. EDIT: Oh Petter mentioned that in this video. Hadn't reached that far when I wrote this comment 😅
I'm a former Passenger Service Agent and soon to be Ramp Agent. The KLM captain reminds of a Captain I always use to work with at my previous airline. Very arrogant, impatient and always made our jobs harder. He is very senior and intimidating so nobody really speaks up against him.
@@lo_ttie Some countries still lag behind in CRM and some airlines too. It is much rarer today but it still exists. And sometimes CRM might be taught but not drilled as hard into pilots as in other places so 99% of pilots follow it but you got that 1% who think they are too smart for rules when in fact those rules are there because of idiots like them. Petter said it nicely once "Pilots who believe they are gods gift to aviation have no place on a modern flight deck." And it often is old experienced senior captains. So they grew up before CRM and don't see it as that essential than a young pilot who has never known anything different. It's why part of CRM is not just how to behave yourself but also how to deal with someone not displaying good CRM practices, for instance young FOs are strongly encouraged to speak up and even intervene if they feel it's needed for the safety of the aircraft. Humans are flawed and many procedures are designed to avoid the flaws of Savannah apes controlling 300 t steel birds at 300 knots. Checklists, lots of warning lights and indications like configuration alarm, if you drop the flaps to 20 or more without the gear down or engines on idle. But arrogance usually can't be easily corrected like someone being bad at stabilised approaches or handling upsets. These people don't belong in jetliners and most have been weeded out or have retired (or ended in fiery crashes). But a few dinosaurs are still left and especially in cultures where strong respect of elders and superiors is engrained these things still happen. Especially 20-30 years ago it happened a lot in some Asian airlines, typically senior experienced captain makes a mistake and the FO doesn't dare speak up because the captain had already yelled at them over some tiny mistake or behaved arrogantly... One crash you could tell the FO knew the Captain was crashing it but beyond one or two times making a suggestion (that would have saved everyone) they give up and await death. You gotta remember the people behind you and that they might not be ready to die rather than risking being yelled at again or fired. Which used happen. Junior pilot pisses of senior captain in management position fired (who often fly rarely and make more mistakes, they have to do extra training today because of that, while a junior pilot fresh out of training might actually be flying a lot better despite fewer hours).
Meanwhile, in the mind of such a pushy jerk in power: “Heh, look at how these NPCs have to scurry about for me to avoid confrontation. Like they're afraid of their own shadows. I bark a command and the universe bends to my will. This is the natural order of things.”
You would think that considering the weather conditions, the KLM pilot would be 100% positive that he had a clear runway ahead of him. He didn't do that.
@@RealEyesRealizeRealLiez Noone "made him" rush. He decided to rush becasue he didn't want to overnight. He could have!! .. and he could have been faster if he didn't decide (by himself) to fuel = slowing down the enitre process. He is gulty. One hundred percent... but he is Dutch... they are like that.. xx..
I was told that it seemed that at the last moment, the KLM tipped it's right wing up in an attempt to miss the Pan-Am. Captain Grubbs said that if it wasn't for that last action, the KLM would most likely have gone right through the flight deck. I was told this and other details by a very good friend of mine - Victor Grubbs son. So, in trying to get out, Victor fell through a hole in the floor into the first class lounge which was on fire.He managed to get out though he was badly burnt, spent a few months in hospital but made a full recovery thank goodness. There was more that was remembered after the event, but I don't recall everything that was said now. There is an unrelated fact, another Pan-Am pilot who was very good friends with Victor used to drop by the house all the time. He wrote space stories. You may have heard of him, Gene Roddenbury.
Actually van Zanten was KLMs 747 specialist and star pilot. It’s ironic that he was the main cause of the accident. His action of trying to leapfrog over the PAN AM and lifting his right wing to try to miss/minimise potential damage saved lives and resulted in some survivors on the PAN AM. Such a sad state of affairs for all involved in the disaster.
Yeah I do think that he tried not to hit the other plane the best he could. The fuel that they picked up in Tenarife helped doom them with the extra weight.
@@alekhidell9373 Yeah he was the most experienced. Which I think both helped and hurt. From what I read in different sources, he spent most of his time training people in the simulator and not a lot of actual flight time the last few years before the crash. The simulator is set up to give them the circumstances they need for the training. It's a useful tool but it's not real world where things like ATC exist. It seemed like for a variet of reasons (time pressures (shown in part by his decision to refuel at Tenarife instead of Las Palmas), weather pressures, pressures he faced as the face of KLM, awaiting family, etc) His first officer had been certified by him and had less than 100 hours experience on a B747 and challenged him once according to the CVR and then was quiet after that. The FE had around 550 hours flight experience on a B747 as a FE and more flight hours overall than the FO who turned down a captain stint on a DC-8/9 to be FO on a 747. FE was the last person to challenge his Captain on clearance. From a psychological perspective, there are things in this kind of setup that make me ask questions about the CRM of this crew. Which is what ultimately doomed both planes. You're dealing with human beings. Trained and experienced ones but at the end of the day, with strengths and frailities that can factor into their actions. I think with pilots they to the very end at times believe that they can save the plane or at least not to give up. Alaskan Airlines 261 w/ the failed jackscrew was an example where they kept trying until the end and working together. Albeit arranging with ATC to make sure they "troubleshot" the airplane over the ocean instead of land where there were residences and businesses with people inside to avoid more casualties if the plane crashed.
The captain said he could see all the passengers in the fuselage, most of whom were alive and screaming, right after the top was sheared off, but once the fire started, he said it went totally quiet because the oxygen consumed by the fire made them all incapacitated. That vision must have been a hell of raw trauma for a lifetime.
I was in the Airport in Tenerife that very same night in March 1977...with my wife and a young couple we had met, we were returning to the UK after several months living in La Gomera. It was a late night flight and the weather was unusually bad, rainy and cloudy. We queued up to book in our flight. I was suddenly nervous, I really don't know why, it was a strong and palpable feeling of fear, anxiety, even panic, no mistake. I told my wife and our friends I did not want to take the flight and that I was feeling very weird about it, they were taken aback saying we could not possibly miss the flight. I insisted, it even got embarrassing! As it happens a short while later our flight was actually cancelled due to low visibility and bad weather, I was very relieved and calmed down. We took a flight later around dawn, as the weather temporarily improved. (likely the last flight before the incident) The same day a few hours later this terrible accident happened. I have told this story a few times to friends and the feeling of dread was so strong that night I have always considered it a premonition. Rick M.
I remember this from the time it happened. A decade later I saw a coroner give a presentation about the identification bodies in mass casualty disasters. The slides from this incident were absolutely horrendous; I could not "unsee" them for a long time. Thank you for the thoughtful explanation about how it happened.
I would say most if not all of the burned body's are interred in Westminster Memorial Cemetery, Westminster California 92683. Orange County. There in the area my folk are in, there is a large grass square with no markers, in the center of this large grass square is a large flat marker that states the date of the air crash and list all those that died. There must be some 100 + names on that marker. RIP.
Man….you Mentor Pilot did a superb job of explaining the circumstances that led up the this terrible unfortunate disaster….. I’ve seen many videos about this tragedy and your documentary was by far the best ever on this terrible avoidable crash…. Again what a beautiful job you did on this video , kiddos and keep up the great work!
I am not an aviator, although I have flown many hours in many aircraft types, both as a civilian passenger and as a wildland firefighter. What Petter points out is the importance of clear communication and teamwork. I damned near got killed with my whole crew when our radio contact failed, but our teamwork saved us: we worked together with whatever information we had available to survive a terrifying firestorm, and we were lucky. Those hours are burned in to my memory and still my bad dreams.
The lengths the aviation industry go to take lessons after a disaster is absolutely incredible, piecing it all together. It's interesting that humans can hear the same message differently - add in the differences in language, it shows us how successful communication is a challenge and yet crucial in this field. IMO, the KLM pilot heard what he wanted to hear a few times. I also find it interesting that the new out of hours law, intended to make it safer, had the opposite effect and added stress. Had they not been in such a hurry they may have lived. One night away from his family turned into being for good. It's also interesting that all of these aviation disasters are usually down to human error, not always but mostly.
imagine if we treated crime the same way. we could prevent future crime instead of just tossing those "guilty" into crime collage so the cops can justify expanding their budgets and powers. its a nice fantasy.
@@thecanadianfuhrer8602By prevent future crime, do you mean fighting against single motherhood (a significant factor in career criminality) and/or something else that correlates with crime, or do you mean something out of minority report?
I've been waiting for Petter to cover this one and once again he doesn't disappoint. I can't count how many times I've seen this horrible tragedy analyzed and as usual Petter gives me information I've never heard before, great job.
@Samurai Warriors : information you've never heard before.. could you give some examples of this informations? that's you only heard here in this video by Petter . thanks 😊
Today, March 27th if 2024 we remember the 47th year of this horrible accident May the souls of the victims rest in peace and God bless their families that lost their love ones that horrible day
Thank you for the video, my aunt and uncle were on the KLM flight and this has helped to understand what went wrong in a neutral way (many reports tend to have a bit of an angle).. Also very glad that as a result aviation safety has been improved with the learnings from all the things that went wrong...
I'm very sorry for your loss, but glad that you can find solace that this disaster improved aviation safety substantially. Not to appear rude, but just so you are aware, "Avian" refers to birds, "Aviation" is the word you were looking for. :)
My aunt erma schlect was on the pan am. She survived to live a long happy life dying of old age! Many of the survivors were from our hometown of Longview, Wa. USA . Thank you for the technical side of this. I have a better understanding and the anger I have because she went threw so much has been removed from my heart.
Your Aunt generously spoke of her experience during her lifetime. We are blessed by her strength and courage, and I hope sharing her experience with historians helped her cope with the horror she experienced. May she rest in peace.
Anger? 580 people died and you know the survivors. At who was the anger pointed? Panam, for not taking the 3rd turn and moving on, KLM for taking off, or the Spanish guy who watched football? (soccer in your country) This is one big tragedy for everyone in those planes.
@@monicacarolina6480 calm down Karen. People are allowed to experience emotions. Did you miss the fact that the taxi ways weren’t marked properly? Did you miss the part where KLM issued their own take off? Seems like you did… Are you Dutch, and salty because KLM was at fault? Because that seems to be what’s happened.
@@monicacarolina6480 it's called grief; anger is a stage and can sometimes be life-long. I can only assume you've never experienced tragedy in your life to understand this.
One survivor said that as she and her husband were about to get out of the plane, she looked back and saw her friends, another couple, sitting calmly in their seats. She wanted to do something but had to save herself. This recollection came up in an interview for a book about how and why some people survive disasters, and some don't. The author said that often people just freeze. I've heard that elsewhere too.
@@jacobr8063 The same thing happens when cars make water landings. The person is in denial that they are in the water and need to get out so they freeze and do nothing. One lady was on the phone with 911 who were telling her to get out of her car and the woman was insisting she would be fine staying in her car, she wasn't as she drowned.
@@laprimaverabycristobalpola4199 Well, your alternative is to jump 20 feet to a hard concrete surface and if you are too old or too young you probably won't make it anyway.
I never heard of this disaster. However, after learning about it from this documentary and another one I found, it gave me the chills. It is such a shame that something like this could happen and that so many innocent people had to lose their lives because of it. RIP victims of this terrible disaster. 45 years later, your story is still being told.
Wow, you never heard of this disaster? Really....I'm sorry, but someone has to tell you that you are rather clueless. So much has been written about this disaster by so many people, that I feel unworthy to even offer my [worthless] opinion. If Mentour's video has piqued your interest, then he has indeed, done well. Yes, I know...I dont want to rant, but I felt I had to reply personally. Nick, this is aviation's worst disaster ever in all aviation history. One could spend so many hours studying just this one tragedy... I don't promote YT material, but a few hours on Mentour's channel could be quite informative and worthwhile for you...1.2 Million subs can't be wrong. I appreciate your reply, you may find studying aviation [and other] disasters is quite interesting, just as I have.
@@yoseflisanuhaile601 Unfortunately, I never learned about events like this in history when I was in school. While I enjoyed my history classes and everything they taught me, I always learned about the same things every year like the World Wars, the American Revolution, the Civil War, and even the voyages of Christopher Columbus. I never even knew what truly happened on 9/11, except from stories my family told me when I was 5 or 6 years old, or the way it changed the world forever until I was in high school. I am 23 years old and I am still learning about moments in history that I never knew about before, including the Tenerife disaster. Hopefully events like this disaster, 9/11, and other ones won't be forgotten and will be remembered for the next generations to come.
@@nicholasgibbons9917 Didn't expect a reply never mind such an articulate and long one. Americans need to go beyond and learn other things that happens in the rest of the globe. An AMERICAN ambassader to ETHIOPIA (AFRICA) once said " he was visiting this very remote village in ETHIOPIA and one of the villager told him that the whole village was very sorry about 9/11 . the Ambassader later said " never ever thought people from such a small and remote villlage in Ethiopia would ever know about 9/11.
My Grandmother's friend perished on the Pan-Am. Genevieve Foley, from Palos Verdes, CA. RIP to her and every victim. Mentour Pilot with an amazing, educational lesson on this tragedy.
I was twelve years old and remember this vividly from the news. Even as a child I remember thinking, how could this happen? Now I know, and as usual it was a series of things that all combined to produce this horror. The woman who did not take the KLM flight, I cannot imagine what she went through or is still dealing with.
I saw a documentary on this as a teenager, and my father started talking at the end, quietly talking about the friend of his who was celebrating finishing his internship and was finally able to take the time to go with his wife, also a young doctor but further along in her career, on vacation. A nice cruise starting in the Canary Islands. The seating on the Pan Am was screwed, up though, see. They were seated seperately. She never came home. I then understood why my mom didn´t stay in the room to see the program.
Mesmerized. He's got such a gift for narration. Presenting complex, detailed events in a manner that wholly educates, and draws one in. Glaringly obvious what a phenomenal pilot he is, dedicated to the betterment of the industry. The tragedies really grab my heart tight, but also grateful in what is learned out of them. Absolutely love the channel.
The fact that the worst incident in the history of aviation happened on ground due to miscommunications and other coincidences really shows how safe air travel is.
Nah, it's just that when something happens in the air, it's just that one plane that crashes. This is the worst because it contained two planes (i.e. twice the people)
Yeah, this is some garbage airport, main city airports won't really have these problems. These tiny airports are made for small planes and not something like a 747.
it's only considered "the worst" because two planes crashed into another meanings twice the casualties in one accident from this video I can see that everything from the procedure to technology used is completely insufficient, amateurish wouldn't be pushing it, now it was many decades ago so they had an excuse, but what worries me is that the technology is not much better today, even though it exists there is no backup fly from ground, there is still not enough redundant systems, the planes and every angle of it arent litered in cameras the crew can access, they use radio instead of cellular communication or internet towers even when in range of such things, there is no procedure for repeating a communication that didn't go through, or even noticing one, there was no ground radar on the airport, and it wasn't litered with cameras every 50 meters on the runway, and name one airport today that has anything like that, there are none, even though it would cost them less than 1% of their yearly expenses to install something like this accidents will keep happening and many thousands more people will die being burned alive because the design of the planes and prodecures are completely barebones, and cut corners wherever they can, they don't even make any small improvements until accidents happen, it's the only thing that has been moving the industry forward at all, deaths and close calls, they don't update and improve their systems on their own I challenge you to show me any airplane accident that could not have been avoided by an affordable technology or procedure change, you will fail.
@@panda4247 not always. There has been two planes that have collided in the air due to the pilots not following the descent or the climb instructions given to them.
I found your channel and this video only now. It IS an excellent, humane, objective analysis of this horrific accident. I was a small kid when this happened and lived in the Iberian peninsula. This was horrible and stayed on the news of both Spanish and Portuguese newstations for quite a while. As with most similar events, there were CLEAR ways out before it happened.. sadly, none were taken.
I saw another documentary about this which said that after the passengers had reboarded KLM a head count showed there were four people missing and that, it turned out two children had been separated from their parents, it said that the captain of the KLM was quite abrupt and rude to some of the flight crew telling them they’d better find them, the children and their parents were eventually located and reboarded the aircraft ……… sadly yet another turn of events that led to such awful consequences that day 😢
As anyone who has worked in commercial aviation will know, the unruliness, disorganised behaviour and unreliability of passengers take many forms, and it is not at all unusual for stress-provoking situations to escalate from minor beginnings. This is why many pilots choose to work for freight haulers, since cardboard boxes tend to behave themselves. The KLM flight which was delayed at Los Rodeos carried 'package holidaymakers' from the Netherlands, and many of these people would have been likely to have had little knowledge of aviation, may have been experiencing 'fear of flying' as a typical trait of the uninformed, and in 1977 were still wary of the concept of rapid international travel. The PIC of their 747 may have had seniority and experience on his side, but he had spent the previous twelve weeks training junior aviators on a simulator, which was a different proposition altogether in the 1970s. Whatever the case, Jacob Veldhuyzen van Zanten had clear responsibilities in all aspects of his duties, and these included being able to deal safely with all the implications of unforeseeable delays, errant passengers, marginal visibility, language differences with ATC services, crowded airports, having to cope with the idiosyncrasies of a second-string facility such as Los Rodeos, distant activities of militant criminals, possible exigent circumstances and numerous other occurrences. What is not understood by most non-pilots is that all of these vicissitudes are entirely normal in the day-to-day lives of Cockpit Crew and Cabin Crew, and solving such problems is what these people are trained for and paid to do on a routine basis. Except for Mr van Zanten, all others discharged their responsibilities to a reasonable standard on Tenerife that day, and 583 people would have lived beyond 27th March 1977 if one Dutch pilot, for reasons that even today essentially remain unexplained, had not chosen to execute a takeoff when he did not have permission to do so, and quite possibly took an action which amounted to Multiple Gross Negligence Manslaughter in Legal Terms.
What is not mentioned in articles or documentaries about this is that the 747's were not parked near the terminal they were parked in a different part of the airport located about a half a mile (900 m) from the terminal. Passengers would have needed to be bussed between the plane and the terminal. Presumably this bus would have been provided by the airport. This completely changes the picture of the logistics of the situation from what one might imagine from the descriptions. One might imagine for example that most the KLM passengers went to the terminal during the delay, and that they simply stepped off the airplane and walked a couple hundred feet to the terminal. But the logistics would have been much more time consuming than this. If we assume that there was only one bus it would have had to make several back and forth trips between the airplane and the terminal, not to mention the loading and unloading time for each trip. And then repeating this for the return trip to the airplane. With 235 passengers on board this would be a lengthy operation even if only half of the KLM passengers went to the terminal. Also since this was not an airport serviced by KLM there would be no KLM staff inside the terminal. Perhaps one or more of the KLM flight attendants rode the bus to the terminal with the passengers and then remained in the terminal with the passengers, and somehow remained in communication with the aircraft for instructions. Or else they sent the passengers to the terminal on their own and expected the airport staff to announce to passengers when they should return to the plane, which is also possible. With this in mind, when the documentary that you watched states "the captain of the KLM was quite abrupt and rude to some of the flight crew telling them they’d better find them". Who is he talking to, flight attendants on the airplane? Is he telling them to get on the bus and ride a half a mile to the terminal to go look for the missing passengers? Something about this picture is incomplete, there are a lot of missing details here.
@@johnstedman4075 While some passengers indeed are problematic, the airline industry albeit airports, airline crews are increasingly getting more rude and aggressive.
@@Miguel195211 I think the reason why they get more aggressive is that they are paid less in real wages (especially the flight attendants and ground crew) and get more pressure for being on time, as a result of several crisis in the airline industry and the general trends of capitalism increase the pressure of maximizing profits.
I'm a truck driver. I couldn't imagine the intense responsibility of that many lives in my hands. I do realize however that any lapse in judgment or attentiveness could put a lot of people at risk. One big no no in all circumstances is to not hurry. It almost always causes more problems then good. We all want to go home and not get stuck on the road but if it's a close window time wise, slow down don't speed up it may save your life and/or someone elses.
Great to hear mate! I sometimes feel like people don't realise the great responsibility that truck drivers have. Super important job and a 5second lapse can kill a whole family
This crash interested me ever since it happened. I was 17 years old back in 1977 and remember the photos on the front of Time Magazine. I had seen many documentaries on this crash and I can say without a doubt that this was perhaps the best presentation. The graphics of the crash, seeing what each pilot saw just before the impact was quite chilling and eerie, because it actually happened. This presentation was very detailed in explaining the fog as actually being clouds among other things that you mentioned that was missing from the other documentaries. Very accurate and educational presentation. I will be looking at other documentaries from you. Thank you.
i think with the visibility conditions it would have been wiser to maybe wait, but i think this is pretty standard stuff, i might be wrong, but man, the KLM pilot was gonna take off without clearance, his FO had to stop him, and then when the flight engineer asked if the panam was out of the runway, he said yeah sure, he didnt know, he had no way to know, and he didnt give a shit.
@@juncearyoutube3336 Yeah if not for the terrible visibility this wouldn't have happened, but the captain was super impatient. I used to live in the area near Pike's Peak in Colorado(US), and yeah... that's a high enough altitude that sometimes if you're on a hill you can look down at the tops of what's actually a cloud bank. It's not fog in the normal sense and will quite often persist all day long. Some days you just can't see more than a short distance due to the entire area being covered. I would NOt want to fly in THAT. riding a bicycle is bad enough.
That crash has a lot more to it that many will ever understand. I was on the island that day. Look at history of that aircraft. Ans history of the island.
Ditto to all the comments complimenting you on the excellent factual and storytelling that goes into your videos! Your channel is my go to for obtaining information that no one else possesses, or does, but they fall short on their delivery. Kudos Mentor!
Visit www.virtual737course.com to learn how to fly a 737 like Petter in our virtual 737 SIM course Make sure to use code "mentournow" for 20% off! ✈
Why would you post this now?
@@A220-enjoyer Petter has recently revealed that he left the employ of Ryanair a year ago and is now a full-time TH-camr and online trainer. This was a bizarre and highly questionable choice since it will inevitably mean that he is no longer really "speaking from within the aviation industry" and is becoming unable to establish fully objective and credible responses to current developments in that sector. A shame, because Mentour Pilot was formerly taken quite seriously as a barometer of the strengths and weaknesses of Airline Operations, and is now losing much of that status. Unfortunately, much of the "aviation internet" is now biased towards entertainment, juvenile approaches and hyperbole, and many knowledgeable people are cancelling their Subscriptions to such Channels. My Firm is now spending very little time perusing such Content, and will soon be withdrawing entirely from TH-cam and other so-called "social media", in search of more substantial and worthwhile content.
The refueling of the aircraft was not the cause of the fatal accident, but the tower actually allowed two giant aircraft to move on the same runway at the same time in the thick fog, invisible to all three parties, creating room for the crew to make mistakes!
I was a flight attendant for Pan AM at that time . That night I flew to Brazil( Rio de Janeiro) two of my friends were working that flight and both of them didn't survive. I learned of the tragedy late in the afternoon while I checked with the hotel lobby of any changes to my schedule. The clerk informed me of the tragedy. It was a sad time for all of us at Pan AM. I still think about my friends. Rip Carol Thomas and Miguel Torrech my dear friends. I can't believe that I am still around after all these years. I quit Pan am in 1982 and went back to the university for a master degree and became and educator. It was a wonderful time my ten years with Pan AM,. I saw the world and became a better person . Thanks to all those who made it possible for me to have had such a wonderful experience. Soon I will see my friends, again. May God bless them all.
Not too soon hopefully.
Godspeed...
Alllahhhhhh!
Pan Am was a great airline mismanaged to extinction.
Its a tragic event and you did the right thing by quitting Pan Am and pursued further education
You have made an excellent documentary about the accident on Tenerife. Thank you for your expertise. I am a survivor of this accident. I am 1 of 75 initial survivors and was 1 of 14 walking survivors who were treated at Candelario Hospital and released. In addition, I am 1 of 2 photographers that Sunnday afternoon. The post impact photo that is in this video is one of mine. I give you my permission to use it. (My film was stolen by a Dutch fellow named Hans Hofman who sold copies in western Europe.) I was sitting in 30C, the row in front of the exit door over the wing. Upon impact, part of the ceiling disappeared and I climbed out of the hole above my seat onto the left wing. I found a woman on the wing sliding towards the inboard engine which was on fire. I pulled her further out on the wing, tossed her off the leading edge, jumped off and ran. Once I got away I stopped and looked back. Then I saw KLM and realized they had run ito us. Just then a fireball exploded on the wingtip of Pan Am and the whole plane caught on fire. I ran further away then stopped and took 5 photos of the plane to document what I was seeing. In 2015 I released a book about my experience and more titled "Never Wait for the Fire Truck" by David Yeager Alexander which is available on Amazon. I also wrote about aircraft interior safety and runway safety. Also, I was interviewed by Jon Ziomek for his book, shown in your video, titled "Collision On Tenerife". Thanks again for your good work.
Dear David, sir, @David_Alexander you are evidently one of history's heros, as well as a resource of primary source history. It was interesting to me when also just now reading about how your fearlessness in flying again, immediately, was not deemed consistent with PTSD - while, as a prior PTSD sufferer myself, this is now known to be one of the early symptoms of it. Could the Jeff Bridges movie Fearless have been influenced by your shared revelations of the delay in your apparent symptoms in that era? By the way, were there also further aircraft behind yours in the queue behind their refuelling? Either way I guess no 747 could in those days do a standing 180 degree turn without a tow-truck: it makes no sense to me that ATC insisted on their idea of a taxiing route! So ridiculous to allow two planes on the runway, even for a second! But, did you ever hear from the woman you saved? ✈
This was one hell of a bad accident, I can’t begin to imagine what you felt, heard & saw that day. I know that every crash is a lesson learned to ensure safer air travel. In fact, the documentary series, Air Crash Investigation helped me overcome my fear of flying. I hope some good came from this crash for you too.
I look forward to reading your book, too
All the best, from Australia
I was there also, but I was going down the steps of my aircraft as the crash happened. I astonished that anyone survived the crash, my experience of that day pales into insignificance by comparison to yours.
I have your book and it's an excellent, well written account that I couldn't put down - I recommend it to anyone interested in this terrible event. I hope you are continuing to do well, as the book indicates?
You have angels around you sir
Many years ago when I was a kid… I believe it was a 737 we were in.. we were about to land in Switzerland and just before the landing gear touched the runway the pilot violently pulled up. So hard it physically hurt and harder than you’d ever guess a commercial jet could maneuver. A bunch of people screamed.
It was because someone made a mistake and another plane started crossing the runway in front of us. Shout out to that pilot 🤞
Yea heard about this story
I was aboard a Cathay Pacific flight from HKG to Bangkok. On approach we were only meters above the runway when the Australian pilot violently pulled up...my neck cracked and there were some screams. It seems that a Thai Airways flight had been crossing our runway. We were only maybe 10 seconds from collision. The Aussie pilot announced through the loud speaker that we almost had a collision He was Very pissed off!
This is similar to pan am flight 103 the difference is the 103 exploded in the air
Was this landing in Zürich 97 or 98?
I had the the same thing happen in the early 90s in Florida. A PIC who is focused and situationally aware will be ready and react in a split second. Kudos to all of the talented hard working pilots.
The surviving flight attendants on the pan am were heroes. One of them was literally throwing people off the wing because they were hesitating and she knew they would die if they didnt jump. If the pan am crew didnt turn when they would have lost everyone
Such an unfortunate incident, weather was poor, fog, rain, temps dropping. A very slow trek on the runway, could not see one another, the tower could not where any planes were. Unfortunate they did not have ground radar, if so, they could now exactly where they were. No centerline lighting, inoperatalbe. So many ifs, repeating myself, just take a look see at previous comments. So many lives lost, an incident that very well could have been a preventable one.
@@kay9549 ultimately the KLM pilot was most at fault
As an engineer, I understand how design evolves over time and you learn from your design being in use. You can never predict all scenarios, but I’m a bit taken aback by how so many accidents have made the airline industry evolve to be safer. Some of the changes should have been implemented from the start like clear taxiway markings. Such a basic item that might have helped avoid this collision. There will always be the human factor, but I just don’t understand how some basic design principles aren’t implemented until there is an accident.
@@daCubanaqt I actually just commented on several recent near misses, that could have ended in a similar fashion, which could easily be resolved with the implementation of a GPS System at all Airports, that would allow all pilots to see where other Airplanes are in the Airport, in relation to them, etc. This seems obvious to me, but as we all know, more often than not, changes aren't made until there is another accident and more loss of life.
Not heroes.
Captain Van Zanten's picture was used in KLM's ads and he was so highly regarded that the Dutch investigators tried to contact him to assist in their investigation, not knowing that he was in command of that fateful 747.
I read that as well. Super wild.
that explains his behaviour
@@ashGT40true. Got too high on power.
@@AnoNym-zi5ty Arrogance and 300 t flying machines seldom mix well.
Why is everyone ignoring that the pilot had the choice between rushing, court and staying at an airport where a terrorist attack just took place. It is basically choosing between three bad things and he decided to take the worst one under a chain of horrible events.
It is absolutely heartbreaking to consider how Captain Van Zanten’s urge to get home to his family contributed in part to their losing him. As trivial as it sounds, the saying is true: “An unguarded minute has an accident in it.” Thanks as always for your thorough, respectful, insightful analysis.
We say in Spanish : Más vale un minuto en la vida que la vida en un minuto: A minute in life is better than life in a minute.
Dutch Jerk.
It wasn't so much an urge to get home to his family. It was more the strict rules the Dutch Government had put in place regarding hours flight crews were allowed to work. He wasn't to get home, yes. However, his overriding concern was getting into legal trouble for exceeding hours in the air as they would be flying back to the Netherlands after Los Palmas.
In Dutch we say "een ongeluk zit in een klein hoekje" - literally translates to "an accident sits in a small corner."
I was thinking the same thing. It's always better to take rest and postpone things rather than rush.
I knew the Pan Am Co-Pilot Bob Bragg quite well. He was injured but eventually went back to work. The Captain of the Pan Am flight, Victor Grubbs, did fly again, but the weight he carried at the loss of his passengers weighed heavily on him until he died.
I once was on a commuter train during a prolonged delay, and happened to be seated adjacent to where one of the conductors was standing. I struck up a conversation with him, and eventually asked why we'd been sitting there for so long. This was the busiest rail corridor in the US, and such delays are rare. He told me that someone had deliberately walked out onto the track in front of another train, killing himself. I wasn't expecting that, but what really stuck with me was this: He said that he knew another engineer who had been involved in a similar incident. Someone had walked out onto the track well ahead of his train. He applied the emergency brake, but there was nowhere near enough distance to stop; commuter trains on this line go up to at least 79mph. The conductor told me that the experience of sitting there, watching over many seconds, powerless to do anything, as his train plowed right into this person absolutely wrecked this guy's life. He fell into a severe depression, and there was no way he'd ever drive a train again.
Now, thinking of this disaster, I can't begin to imagine how the surviving crew felt.
@@vokqeagreed he ruined that man's life for nothing if he really wanted to unalive he could have done it somewhere where nobody would be affected
Okay why do we have to keep changing words?? Why are we saying stupid things like “unalive”, or “ birthgivers”, and “ chestfeeders”. Can we not just stick to what they have always been!!
@@sarajanecordell2376 its so the comments aren't removed by TH-cam
@sarajanecordell2376 bud i know it's stupid but I don't want my comment removed.
The somewhat awkward part of this accident was when this happened, KLM immediately suggested putting Jacob van Zaanten on the investigation team to help understand what happened.
...which well... they couldn't.
These stories haunt me in a bad way for a while until they haunt me in a good way. The irony that the Dutch pilot was hurrying to get home to his wife is one of those lessons I'll take to heart the next time I'm behind the wheel of a car rushing to get somewhere. We know we all do it. Better late than never.
There's a reason why the term get-there-itis exists.
@@JamesDavy2009 NASA has its own version: "go fever"
Better to be late in this life than early in the next!
And in turn this means we should be not be an absolutist against people being late. Critical, yes, but not absolutist.
@@agps4418 And there's a karmic lesson from the American crew who mocked the Dutch captain, they are the ones who survived to live with the horrific memories. They probably never laughed at anything again.
As I have mentioned before I spent 30 years as an airline pilot and nearly 40 years working in the technical arena. This accident happened during that time so I was and am pretty well informed about the event. It is rare for me to read or watch an account of an aircraft accident in which I can find no error of fact or interpretation but this, as in your other videos, is an exception. Your ability to convey the significant points of an accident concisely and accurately is remarkable. Congratulations and thank you.
"Error of fact", OK, but interpretation is by definition subjective. The only reason you think the other guy is making any error of interpretation is because he has a different interpretation than you. And he thinks the same the other way around. If it weren't a matter of opinion, it would be a matter of fact. "Error" doesn't really apply.
@@jursamaj Have you never noticed a fact being misreported?
@@philipsmith1990 Of course… and that would be an error of fact, not an error of interpretation.
@@jursamaj Subjective doesn't mean every thing is correct. An interpretation often requires knowledge beyond the simple facts given to gain understanding, you have to understand the environment that is in. Tenerife for example is within the environment of the 1970's both in the environment of the islands (the reason behind the bombing), and the airline industry as a whole. There can also just be facts missing from an interpretation, either deliberately removed, not known about or not understanding the importance of. All of these can cause an interpretation to be incorrect, or just lacking.
@@GroundHOG-2010 Again, all those are errors of fact.
To think that it could have been avoided by the KLM captain simply asking on the frequency, "PanAm, are you clear of the runway?" I know it's not SOP for aircraft to talk directly to each other, but under these conditions, given the poor visibility, the confusion, and the language problems with the controller, it seems like a perfectly reasonable thing to do.
Probably ego. He was not going to ask the pilot who dared rush him get his fuel.
Impatience, arrogance and incompetence by the KLM Cap. He was responsible for ALL those deaths.
Yeah, the lack of simple communications seem like part of the problem. I'm sure that if you eliminated the controller, the Pan Am crew could have gotten through to the KLM captain what his own crew kept trying but failing to communicate, that they were still on the runway. My first question on hearing of accidents like this used to be whether the aircraft involved were on separate frequencies or not. Can't believe they are on the same ones but just don't hear the obvious.
It seems like the KLM captain, Van Zanten, thought he was above doing things like that. The impression I get is of a man who was full of his own self importance and king of his domain. That's why his first officer and flight engineer didn't say anything about what he was doing or question his actions. I'm pretty sure that they knew he was not following correct procedures and was in the wrong but didn't say that. If only they did. If only they had tried to overrule Van Zanten and took over the flight controls. Yes they might have been fired, but at least they would have still been alive to get another job. 583 people wouldn't have unnecessarily perished either. The fact that this disaster was so avoidable and unnecessary, and was due in a big part to someone's huge ego, is even worse.
Singer Willie Nelson: . . . and I know just what I'd change , if I went back in time somehow , but there is nothing I can do about it now.
As a pilot student from tenerife, los rodeos has been my training airport since flight hour 0, such a sad event that occurred there, they will never be forgotten. Thanks for telling the story in such a profesional way
Approximately 2 years after the accident, I had the opportunity to listen to a Pan Am survivor speak about how she was able to escape the burning aircraft. The one thing I most remember her talking about during her lecture was the intense heat and how many people she witnessed being burned to death. She was among those who had to make that 6-meter jump, during which she broke her ankle. She was one of the lucky ones.
Very sad and unnerving. A surviving Flight Attendant spoke to the professional investigator as to why many of the passengers remained seated in the American 747. The reason was that the oxygen in the casing was quickly consumed by the fire. The passengers basically fell unconscious. So thankfully they did not feel being burned to death.
do you know how I can find the talk that survivor gave?
It was the copilot that said this in another documentary video.
not lucky
@@microsoftuser4303 why are you here on this channel? You are weird.
I started secondary school in 1977, after the summer holidays, so about 5 months after the Tenerife disaster. One of our teachers sometimes brought his daughter with him to school, she must have been about 4 years old at the time, I think. Only months later I heard why her dad brought her with him whenever she had a day off from primary school. Turned out that her mom, our teacher's wife, was one of the KLM flight attendants on the Tenerife KLM flight. The little girl probably didn't want to be anywhere else than with her dad! She was so loved by all teenage schoolkids, we played games with her and tried to give her a great day whenever her dad brought her with him into our school. I will never ever forget that and it still brings tears to my eyes.
1
❤️
I just want to say thank you for helping that poor girl have a sweet day at your school!!
Beautiful story in midst of tragedy. Love that your teacher brought his little girl and that you all loved her. Special place in heaven for people like you and your classmates. 💖🙏
I started Grammar school a year earlier,My Biology teacher lost his parents on the KLM flight,I still remember his disbelief and shock,when he informed us,we loved him more for the rest of our time with him.
Actually I read -and in her interview - they did NOT give Robina van Lanschot permission to not board. She was firmly told she must board that KLM flight. She left her ticket at the counter and walked out of the airport. (As I understand her interview , I believe she pretended to board with her friend so they wouldn’t notice she actually was not going to board.)She loved her boyfriend so much so stayed . There’s another TH-cam about this crash where she tells her story. Yes, she suffers with survivors guilt. Poor woman. Last I read, she is still with her boyfriend. I believe they’re married.
The worst part of her story is that her friends/coworkers died in the incident, so she basically waved goodbye to them while pretending to board. While love saved her, I assume she still holds grief and guilt about not being able to save her friends.
Everyone made their own choices. Remember personal boundaries too.
@@kibaanazuka332 the only guilt she should hold is her friends saving her by not boarding. she wouldn't have saved them if she boarded. unless you apply the notion of "butterfly effect".
Sure she may feel bad, but I hope she has or will let go of any guilt. Boundaries? It saved her life. She now married. That sounds angry, I'm not. Its a typical feeling that she of course will or may feel bad but the general public should not but only of support of her own lose.
@@PurpleHaze4me Survivor's guilt is inherently illogical, that doesn't make it any less real or depressing. I have experienced a few very minor (not related to death) sets of survivor's guilt due to a number of circumstances in which those around me had something bad happen to them but I did not. It feels awful enough with such low stakes, and hard to shake too. I can only imagine how horrible it must feel in relation to actual death.
so frustrating to listen to. the ambiguity in the communication, the assumptions made, and the KLM crew. most frustrating part is the KLM copilot and engineer both have a bad feeling that they shouldn't be taking off, both speak up to the pilot, but both do so in an unconfident way that fails to curb the pilot's misplaced confidence. it's very relatable. i absolutely hate that feeling when i know something bad is about to happen, i try to speak up about it, but someone with more experience or authority than me just dismisses my concerns because it's not what they want to hear
Learn how to speak your mind then. Just because you have a feeling doesn t mean i should listen to it, because most of the times is just a feeling. Articulate and maybe someone will listen. Even better, you can become that person that you speak about if you do the things right. Good luck!
I've learnt to keep my ground. If you're not happy with my behavior, good, you can punish me later, but now we do as I feel the right thing to do is.
You just want to scream at them, tell him to STOP THE ROLL
@@mobilelegendsmoskov893how about you learn to listen instead?
@@mobilelegendsmoskov893Were you born obnoxious? Or did you have to study? I dot.
Ironic how the worst Aviation disaster in history didnt even happen in the air.
@Trevor Smith Soyuz 11 ?
Just awful. One of them was still warm when they pulled him out.
i'm pretty sure most plane crashes happen on the ground
@@fazza2104 zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
It kind of did though.
An eerie thing is about 70-75 passengers for the cruise couldn’t get tickets for the Pan Am flight, so made their own travel arrangements. After the accident the cruise still went ahead with these few people. These people talked about seeing corridors full of doors to cabins with keys hanging on the door handles, waiting for passengers who would never arrive
do the know the ship name? Titanic?
😬
Wow, that's like a reverse Titanic situation. Very creepy and so very tragic.
@@Kiinell indeed. Apparently the people on the boat got more involved with activities and stuff
@@trollking202 Golden Odyssey (which otherwise had a fairly uneventful career I think)
I saw a documentary about this one. The girl that didn’t go, they talked to her. She and her then boyfriend were still married at the time the doc was made. They also talked to an airport worker who chased down all the KLM passengers that had wondered off in the terminal. He says the guilt is still haunting him. He was just doing his job. How was he to know this would happen.
I know, it’s terrible the whole way though.,
Poor guy!
@Seth Blades No no, they married shortly after this incident.
That’s gotta be haunting. I mean he did nothing wrong. He in fact did the right thing and got the passengers back to their plane. You could never expect something like that.
Do you remember the name of the documentary? Sounds interesting. Although it is tragic how that airport worker was unknowingly directing the passengers to their death. Poor guy
I'm baffled as to why it needed this accident for the authorities to realise that it's necessary to have an unambiguous procedure for obtaining take-off clearance.
I was wondering why they chose to put their airport at such a bad location for weather disturbance, rather than in the south where it's drier.
The conditions are not always like that, the airport is still in use@@celan4288
For myself, I'm wondering why they would ever think it would be okay to have no central lighting or ground radar on a runway infamous for terrible visibility!
Every safety regulation is written in blood. Humans otherwise are too complacent
@@celan4288 : TBF, they were already building Tenerife South Airport, but it opened 20 months too late for those two planes.
This happened the year I was born. I'm a software engineer nerd really appreciate your technical knowledge and detail, please don't ever "dumb down" the tech stuff it's why I watch your channel!!
No comments on a dono comment?
Here you have one
THANKS MAN ❤
I will certainly try not to! Thank you so much for your support and I appologize for my late reply!
@@MentourPilotYour videos are amazing, subscribed
missed the orographic rainfall
I'm an EE and I couldn't agree more!!
At the time of this accident I was a Pan Am flight attendant. I remember the captain and first officer well. A couple of flight attendants I knew survived. This disaster rocked us as crew members to the core. Watching this video 45 years later, still brings me to tears. Like all aircraft disasters, it’s never just one event but a confluence of events any one of which might have changed the outcome. But the overriding cause I see, was the impatience of the KLM captain. I learned when flying in the ‘70’s, one needed to have patience above all and be flexible. One never knew what events would conspire to disrupt one’s intended plans. I’m still gobsmacked that captain after his long career was not prepared to be more patient. It would have saved his own life and almost 600 other souls. RIP my friends. Well done video. Thank you.
I know you probably won't see this now, but your frustration and pain is palpable even after all these years!! Wishing you much love and peace!
They weren’t equipped for that airport
Rip to your friends involved in that disaster… with only one runway, it was a series of disasters… i feel your pain…
He was impatient because the new Dutch law limiting pilots' flight hours in which prison time was possible if violated.
@@vtauoyctynwbrooylm6008 More fined and have a black mark on your record.
The fact this is just free honestly blows my mind. Thank you for producing such incredible quality documentaries such as this
Cheese breath
If you're not paying for it, you're the product being sold. ;)
its not free lol ad rev , patreon and other donations sponsors
@@InservioLetum not if you skip every advertisement ;-)
Your voice is so calming in a HORRIFIC situation and you answering pretty much any question all of would be asking. Your demeanor is extremely impressive!!!
Every accident I've ever read about was a chain of specific events that, if interfered with, would have prevented tragedy. From this I have concluded we are always one or two links away from disaster. We just don't always realize it.
Yeah, he just made it sound dramatic. Well, this tragedy is the personification of drama, but you get my point. Just crossing a busy road can result in a chain event that gets you tossed.
@@hermespsychopompos8267 Quite true. That's what happened to Orson Bean and Margaret Mitchell - both senseless losses to entertainment and literature.
CRM
Apollo 13 was the same way - a chain of events that led to the oxygen tank exploding.
Yup
I have seen at least 3 recreations / documentaries on Tenerife. Today I learned that the "fog" wasn't really fog and that a new, safer airport was very nearly available on the island.
Amazing! Thank you Petter.
now I kind of feel lucky that I only ever experienced the southern airport during my stays on Tenerife even though I had to travel by transfer bus to and from our hotel in the north.
@@6666Imperator theres a told tale between tenerife locals that says that the arquitect that was tasked with finding a place for the noth airport died before presenting his work leaving behind a map with an x where the north airport is at nowadays, people joke about it saying that the x simbolised the ONLY spot where it shouldnt have been created
@mikebronicki8264 First thing is correct: It's not "fog" as usual but low level clouds. - Second thing is false: The other Tenerife airport you are talking about (Tenerife South) was opened in 1978 October, more than one year after the crash.
I was in the third airplane, an Iberia airplane that was following the KLM from Gran Canaria to Tenerife because of the bomb scare. When our pilot was landing in Tenerife he immediately, after touching ground, went up back into the sky. So many years later I still remember being strapped to my seat and feeling the plane go up and after several moments the pilot said that we were going back to Las Palmas. We landed in Las Palmas, the plane stopped at the old airport and people were running towards the plane, including my parents (I was 14 at the time and travelling alone). My parents didn’t mention the accident but when they started to receive condolences letters from friends thinking that I was in the KLM plane as I am Dutch, they explained about the bomb scare in the airport of Las Palmas, the crash and the fact that people waiting for their loved ones didn’t know which plane had crashed, KLM or Iberia. I can’t imagine the distress of the people who were waiting for their loved ones in the KLM plane. I can forever thank the pilot.
Not to mention the Pan Am flight
Yes, it is very true until that accident questions are asked how and why it happened.
From my own exoerience a sudden changed of weather in wind speed and cloud concentration, twice we landed in another island without live engine.
Pilots were very experienced and one hour passed we took off to shelter our shelves before our flight to the scheduled destination.
Again, we heed to. another island and we lost the two engines from running again.
Curiousity , I. wonder around and ended opening the door leading to the captains galley ..and then. ?
THE ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE AIR HOSTESS :
All passengers please be seated and strap your seat belts as we glide landing.
And so I did. go back to my seat and strap my seat belt. My plane was DC -48 a very. strong plane and. twice landed on HEAVY. STORM .. LANDED SAFELY WITHOUT ANY INJURED PASSENGER.
FOR EVERY ACCIDENT OR. NEAR MISSES , THERE ARE REASONS UNKNOWN UNTILTHE IMPACT..
SAD BUT TRUE..🔰🔰🔰🔰🔰
I am very glad for you Danielle. So glad. I really do hope you are enjoying your wonderful life and love every day of it for what it is.
How quickly does the post in Las Palmas work for people to have heard of the tragedy, figure that you might be on the flight, wrote a letter, send it and have it delivered in the 30 minutes it takes for the flight from Tenerife to Las Palmas?
I'm trying to figure out what you're saying: so, your plane was one of the last of the redirected planes to arrive at Tenerife. And your plane was supposed to land right after the KLM had taken off, then get at the end of the line of the planes that were waiting to take off at that point - all of which would have landed at Las Palmas before your flight (had there been no bombing). Basically the ATC at Las Palmas decided to not let your plane "cut in line" just because you were in the air when Los Palmas ATC had resumed operations.
Your pilot touched down - saw the wreckage/fire - then immediately executed a go around that ended up with you landing at Las Palmas.....having "cut in line" anyway, because of the crash.
I'm not calling you a liar or anything like that: I'm just slightly autistic and my brain has to figure out all the mechanics of something like your story or it drives me nuts. I'm guessing English is a second language for you and you're having a little problem writing what happened to you in a way a natural speaker of the language would. Don't get me wrong: your English is excellent....just not perfectly fluent.
I can remember when this happened. My family and I used to holiday regularly on the Canaries and it was shaking news to hear about. However it wasn’t explained anywhere near as well as this and until I saw this, I could never understand how this could’ve happened.
Not only are you teaching pilots, you’re helping passengers understand more about what goes in to getting the plane in and out of the air safely.
I heard an interesting fact that KLM actually went looking for the captain since he was SO experienced and respected and pretty much the face of KLM (his picture was on billboards). They wanted him to get to the scene to figure out what had happened. They soon realized it was him who caused the crash…
This was a fantastic, comprehensive account of all details of this catastrophic event. Thank you for your dedication! Like many have said already, you deserve your own show!
Sounds like one of these sensationalizing versions of the story. Airlines need to be extremely organized so they knew full well who was captain on that flight.
@@tabby7189 I believe that's what they said in the Mayday (Air Crash Investigations) episode about this disaster. Don't know if it's true, but it's probably where the other guy heard it.
@@tabby7189 The unique thing about both the Pan Am and the KLM were that they were both charter flights. Pan Am was for people going on a cruise around the Canary Islands (and most of them were older people) and the KLM was chartered by a tourism company (and I think the lone survivor worked for it) and had mostly younger passengers including children. I flew a charter flight once with Iberia and to a passenger it doesn't seem much different but I don't know administratively how they are run by airlines.
At that point van Zanten was spending most of his time doing simulator training and I think his flying time per month was less than 20 hours according to one account. I tended to be skeptical that they were looking for him (though I can understand that it's very possible that they would select him) but who knows? I think the accident shocked a lot of people with both airlines. I think the most important thing that came out of it was the issue of cockpit resource management and how to address any shortcomings and to improve it. I think it's had a great impact. JetBlue's landing gear situation and United Airlines 232 (which is the case most often cited) among others.
Actually, KLM has always strongly disputed the findings of the investigative reports (both the Spanish authorities and The Airline Pilots Association (ALPA), which place the immediate cause of the collision on Van Zanten's actions in starting his take off roll without clearance. Also, while Van Zanten was KLM's most senior pilot, the fact he was in command of this particular flight was purely a coincidence.
@@sct913 They sure did and continued to run ads claiming they never had a fatal accident even after Tenarife, their argument being it was a charter flight and thus didn't count. But it's not uncommon for disputes to happen in investigations and there's the option of a minority report like happened in PSA 182 (1978), SilkAir 185 (1997), Egypt Air 990 (1999) and some others. The NTSB also took the nearly unprecedented step of releasing/leaking black box information on China Eastern 5735 (2022) even though it wasn't the leading agency involved in that investigation. Disputing investigations when there's more than one agency involved (which can happen according to the agreement airlines work on when determining jurisdiction for the investigation and all parties that can participate in that) happen. Particularly in cases like SilkAir, Egypt Air and to an extent, Malaysian Air. I assume the NTSB possibly released that information in anticipation of a similar issue with China Eastern but that's just speculation. SilkAir had the advantage of actually having a lawsuit by the families of passengers filed against Boeing (in relation to the documented (and fatal in two out of three documented cases) servovalve issues with its 737-200/300 series. And Boeing received a trial verdict against it siding with the families. Albeit from a trial where not all evidence was allowed.
From what I've researched of Tenarife (which took the life of 583 including the mother of a family friend) is that there were a chain of events that took place that led to that crash. For example, take out the terrorist threat/bombing at Las Palmas Airport from the equation and it probably would have never happened yet you can't write in a report that the terrorists caused it by initating the chain of events because that's not accurate. Sp anish ATF and both airliners, were major factors as was the weather and issues with Tenarife's ability to handle a larger load of planes including two 747s. What is true is that the KLM flight was a charter flight (as PAN AM flight was) not regular service. What is true is that Capt. Van Zanten was the Captain on that flight. What is also true is that at least one of the three member crew, the first officer was certified by him. What was true is that he was considered to be KLM's most senior and venerated pilot, and was literally the face of KLM (on billboards). What appears to be true is that he was the one that was sought out to be assigned to the investigation team. Some doubt exists because there's an assumption that they would not seek him out b/c they would already know he was dead but it's possibly true. Charter flight. Lots of confusion after a plane crash with fatalities especially when post crash fire is involved. Van Zanten took off without clearance. Even if there'd been a sound distortion impacting communications that doesn't equal clearance. The Pan Am crew seemed disoriented from the fog that blew in off the mountain which can happen quickly in Tenarife. Was it even appropriate for the ATF to authorize taxis and takeoffs on an active runway in conditions of such low visibility? Was ATF distracted by a televised soccer game (and wouldn't the sterile cockpit rules apply to a sterile ATF room(s))? How much active flying time (outside a simulator) did Van Zanten have in an average month and in the months preceding the crash? What is Simulator Adaption Syndrome and did it play a role? It seems to be clear that at least with KLM, the penalties towards going past authorized flying/duty hours might have factored into Van Zanten and his crew's state of mind. They are human beings not machines. One major development that came out of the Tenarife disaster was Crew Resource Management, which imo is one of the most important improvements made. United 232, US Airways 1549, Southwest 1380 and others have helped show how that can work during a crisis. And the thousands every day we don't learn about.
There was this one time when my mom and I were going to Zurich, I believe. It was many years ago and it’s beginning to get blurry… So we were on our way to Zurich and about to land. The plane suddenly went up, like VERY violently. I never thought a commercial jet could do that. Turns out a plane was taxiing on the runway we were going to land on. So yeah, thanks to the pilot for saving our lives 😅
Jesus like the canada one?
That happened to me on my last flight when we were about to land. It didn't go up violently, but you could definitely feel it when it did. It was very sudden.
I was in Zurich when Swissair 111 went down in Peggy’s Cove. We had flown in on that beautiful plane the prior Sunday, the most sophisticated, cosmopolitan flight I’d ever been on. Our Swiss cousins from the Bay area were likewise in the air and due to land in Zurich that day. My Aunt went to meet them. (I can’t recall when exactly they were told of 111’s tragedy but I don’t think it was while they were still in the air.) Our host’s good friend had just retired from Swissair Administration and we all sat at the kitchen table while she agonized over the crash report. She was vehement that it could not be pilot error (and she was correct of course). That weekend we went to Geneva and the flags were half mast. The cathedral had just concluded a memorial mass with cameras with tiny votive candles for each victim from Geneva. 🙈 So, we got home safely and I have never flown again.
@@lizannewhitlow1085uhm you know there is therapy for that, right?
Thanks goodness for go arounds. Glad you guys are okay.
As a professional instructor pilot on the 747 for over 25 years I used this accident as a reference many times. We studied it thoroughly and applied the lessons learned in CRM classes. Now a vital and compulsory class for both pilots and cabin crew. Well done on this explanation I have not seen better.
I think better psych screening is the way to deal with these possibilities. Regular reviews and the willingness to ground stressed pilots.
You can't really teach people not to be impatient nut jobs.
@@aarondavis8943 klm has to take blame too, they had psyched him up to be in a hurry vs take safety first.
Llll0
I have watched a documentary on the "Air Disasters" program seen here in the US on Smithsonian Channel.
This version of the events save for a few details is nearly identical.
Seeing these depictions of the events, leaves me frustrated.
Let me preface by saying I have two former ATC's in my family. I am quite an aviation buff. And so on.
Once the aspects of this incident leads me to ask, why with such low visibility was not the airport not placed in a stop all traffic status?
Failing that, the CVR transcripts as described indicate to me an abject failure to adhere to standards and practices of communication between aircraft crew and Controllers. Also, the use of non standard language seems to be a major issue.
IMO this accident was absolutely avoidable if those who were in charge of both the tower and the KLM flight had just adhered to procedures.
@@LeolaGlamour It was not KLM it was a new law of the Dutch Government at that time which had the intention to promote air safety with making sure that the pilots are not tired - but which had in this special case consequences nobody had thought on - what teaches that even the best intentions can cause horrible results.
The first time I heard about this disaster was during a workshop about CRM in medical school. It's quite fascinating how much we in healthcare can learn from aviation even though it's technically a totally different field.
What is CRM ?
Crew Resource Management. The idea is to promote the philosophy and behaviours that will foster effective teamworking.
The checklist systems were installed at about the same time. Both cultures (surgery + aviation) were highly resistant, despite obvious statistical evidence that adding checklists + overriding "senior in charge" with the checks saved lots of lives in both disciplines.
I really appreciate that you don't focus on Van Zanten exclusively. It's clear that there were real CRM and ATC errors before the crash, yet many videos focus almost completely on Van Zanten. Your point about the first officer being highly experienced and the cockpit clearly not being the completely authoritarian situation that has sometimes been described is so important.
I dont think there has to be completely authoritarian for the scenario to happen, as its not written rules that lead to that environment. I dont know if its bias from how its normally presented, but I think that Van Zanten's high regard and others not questioning his seniority, and the rules KLM had in place and him wanting to follow them are a large part of the fault. If that one rule hadnt been in his mind so strongly, and the penalty being so strict none of this would have likely happened.
@@witchy90210 The rules are designed to prevent pilots from being overworked and flying without enough rest. Many accidents in the past were caused by pilots being fatigued, or at least that played a major role. In this case the captain took off without receiving takeoff clearance, which is something that is extremely dangerous and has a high probability of causing an accident, as it did in this case. You seem to be suggesting that they should eliminate the work hours rule and go back to having tired and overworked pilots just because of what this one pilot did.
@@StevePemberton2 The other commenter didn't suggest that at all. That's a real "so you hate waffles?" response. There's a difference between having limits on flight time, which is obviously necessary, and exposing pilots to personal criminal liability for breaching the flight time restrictions, which is a terrible, counter-productive idea.
@@CrownedWithLaurels You are correct they did not literally say that there should be no rules on work hours. In fact I am quite sure that if asked they would say that they are not against such rules. However rules without any type of enforcement or disincentive are more like guidelines, not laws. And yes I realize that the commenter is likely also not against having some type of disincentive or penalty, in fact they mentioned their opinion that the problem was “the penalty being so strict”.
However that was an interesting choice of words, "strict", instead of severe which is what they likely meant. However either word gets to the heart of my point, because severity of punishment and strictness are very much related. It has to do with how important it is for the rule to be followed, i.e what are the possible consequences of someone ignoring the rule. In the case of airline travel it doesn't take much effort to imagine what those consequences might be.
The suggestion of the commenter was that the work hours rule did not need to be so strictly enforced, which implies that it’s not quite so serious of an issue that someone needs to go to jail for it. I understand that viewpoint, and there is a valid argument whether criminal penalties are necessary, could other penalties be used such as suspension or demotion. But the other viewpoint on this is that hundreds of lives are depending on the fitness of the flight crew, so to what extent does the strictness of the rule need to be dialed back?
And anyway it is extremely unlikely that the captain was worried about going to jail. For one simple reason, all the captain had to do was simply follow the directive given by the dispatcher and not take off from Las Palmas later then they were allowed to, however inconvenient that might be to him and his crew and passengers. Just like you likely don't worry about getting arrested for shoplifting every time you go to a store, because you know that all you have to do to avoid this is not stick something in your pocket or purse and walk out of the store without paying for it. Enforcement at a criminal level would likely occur only if a captain purposed refused to obey a time limit given to them, for example if the captain said to his flight crew, “That’s a stupid rule, I feel fine, we’re going now I don’t care what the rules say”.
The pressure that the KLM captain felt, yes because of the rule, was the possibility of his plane getting stuck in Las Palmas overnight. But that is a normal situation for pilots to be in for many types of reasons. For example what if the time constraint was the Las Palmas airport curfew on takeoffs, i.e. a scenario where if they didn't get to Las Palmas soon enough there was a risk of not being able to take off prior to the nightly curfew. In that situation the captain would have felt the exact same pressure, and yet no one would be blaming the Tenerife accident on the inflexibility of the Las Palmas airport. Even if most curfews are solely for neighborhood noise reasons, not safety.
The sensationalized idea of jail time for the captain is a red herring in my opinion that distracts from the more important issues in the Tenerife accident. I was replying to the specific commenter’s statement,
_“If that one rule hadn’t been in his mind so strongly, and the penalty being so strict none of this would have likely happened.”_
This puts the majority of the blame for the accident on the rule, as if the captain should have been allowed to think that it would be okay to sometimes continue flying after exceeding the work hours limit, as long as they had a good reason for it. In fact this opinion has been stated by many other commentators on this topic. Even though the commenter here did not use those exact words, it is pretty clearly implied by the fact that they put the majority of the blame for the accident on the fact that the captain knew that he was not allowed to violate an important safety law. I don't buy that argument, and that is the opinion that I was expressing.
I guess I’m in the minority. I believe the fault rests entirely with VanZaten.😢
I'm an active cabin crew, currently working for my third airline. Just want to say that every single time we have CRM (and I had one fairly recently) we talk about the Tenerife accident. The trainers are always stressing "Don't be afraid to speak up." and "Ask if you don't understand something." It's just sad that these things always come up from tragedy.
Exactly! We always try to use these horrible events to improve on safety and learn. Glad to hear that case studies are being used.
Yea, as a passenger, I'm very reassured to hear that the airlines are not getting complacent regarding CRM training. So many disasters could've been prevented if this was a thing much earlier :(
I think the benefit of sharing these admittedly devastating incidents of the past is that your job is important, disciplined and continually evolving.
@@soulawaken24 Well, I'd say most. Still happens. Look at the 737 Max cases. Both crews had zero communication in a recoverable situation. Both from airlines with terrible training practices and safety records.
I wonder if the FO was too busy by reading back the IFR clearance, unable to speak to the captain again to tell him they are not yet cleared for takeoff?
Was it common those days getting the IFR clearance so late when you are already lined up and ready for departure?
Nobody, absolutely nobody, does a better, more thorough, video/documentary than Mentour. Accuracy, detail, empathy and professionalism… he has it all covered. All assembled with top-notch graphics and visuals. You hit it out of the park every time!
@Airliner World Yes, quite agree, the animations are excellent.
@Airliner World It's true what "they" say: When you see something of quality, there was a lot of love put into it! ;) Thank you for the compliments buddy!
Yesssss🔥
This PanAm 747 was the one that made the maiden flight of the new Jumbo Jet in January 1970 from JFK to London Heathrow. I was a 9 year old returning to the States from Milan, IT where my family lived for a few years. On our flight back, we stopped in London on our way to Ireland for a couple days vacation. While taxiing in London, the Captain of our flight pointed out the new Jumbo Jet that had just landed from New York on its maiden flight.
petertarantelli yes the clipper of the skies, at that time, what a beautiful craft. Who could ever imagine for that time an upper level, very innovative for that era.
Is the animation correct then? Showing a 747-100?
@@HereForTheClipsI just looked at the video, the animation shows a -400, Mentour Pilot says -100 which is correct for the PanAm aircraft.
As an amateur flight enthusiast (professional English professor), I've watched various accounts of this accident many times. I appreciate how your experience as a pilot adds nuance to the story. In the past, so much blame has been laid on the KLM pilot for being impatient, but your explanations make this a much more nuanced situation. Thank you.
@@Jenalgo That's quite a low quality statement you've got there.
There is still some blame to put on the pilot though. He was *not* cleared for takeoff.
@@gibbyjibby0 the pilot is ultimately the only one to blame.
He was the one that decided to take off without clearance.
Sure you can blame the bomber or the pan-am crew or ATC the police who shut down the first airport, the people searching for the other bombs, etc etc etc etc but by and large they were doing exactly what they were supposed to do… the only one who didn’t was the pilot, and because of that almost 600 people died that day.
Because of the nuance you can probably get away without calling him a piece of shit, but I think it’s way too far to put the blame on anyone else in any large capacity.
95% the pilot of the KLM and 5% literally everything else that contributed to this… including that volcano taking about 4% of it.
@@Jenalgo The subtlety in the video clearly escaped you.
Rest assured, there is no hell.
@Jenalgo I agree it was mostly van zanton's fault for taking off without clearance, but other factors played a part. But, why wish van Zanten (or however his name is spelled) to burn in hell? Are there not far more deserving people to burn? And even so, maybe we should all try to be a little kinder to one another. Including myself become I know I can be gruff and harsh due to the arrogant asses in the world! Anyhow, a little kindness would make the world better. Besides, I'm sure van zanten didn't mean to kill anyone! Ok, rant over!!
It's staggering how many things had to go wrong for this disaster to have happened. It is also sobering to realize that if just one thing had gone right in the long list of things that went wrong, the disaster could have been averted.
No disaster has only one cause, there's always a sequence of incidents.
Every accident has a chain of events. Breaking a single link will prevent the accident. That's why there's so few aviation accidents these days. We've learned to break that links.
That description seems equally attributable to the 1996 Mnt Everest climbing tragedy. Again, a series of compounding errors and poor conditions.
Indeed.
@@laprimaverabycristobalpola4199 Yes, but in this case in a way that you can start to believe in the existence of a devil. Think only about the fact that exactly only the "Okay" from the ATC reached the KLM cockpit. Every statistic would have told you that something like that could happen only one time in a billion cases - but it happened exactly here and then.
I am an audiologist by profession, and I have no knowledge of aviation at all, but I love watching documentaries. I’m so glad I found this channel - not only is it very well-written, the explanation is also very in-depth and easy to follow along. Sure, there might be terminologies that are alien to me, but Mentour Pilot explains it in a very concise manner that others in non-aviation fields can also understand it. I tip my hat to you, sir!! (Subscribed!!)
Thank you! I’m so happy you think so and to have you with me on the channel.
Yes, Mentour Pilot does make excellent videos. I just wish he would do some in German.
This narration is completely biased. Unless you think this narrator knew what Van Zanten was thinking at that time.
@@unnamedsource746 This Narration is one of the most non -biased ones I’ve seen.
@@torstenheling3830
So, lemme see. I'm stopped at an intersection. The traffic light is still red. But I just accelerate right into the intersection.... and kill people. But I am not at fault? Try that in front of a judge and jury. See how far that gets you. (btw, don't forget to tell them you thought the light was green)
I love this channel. It’s like air crash investigation without the theatrics or constant ad breaks and way more insightful
I work in Orange County (Sna) for AA and yesterday, we had a flight going to Dfw that the captain noticed a problem with the nose gear. The VERY same thing was noticed the day before yesterday with the same AC. The pilot taxied twice and came back twice and told the mechanics that he wasn’t comfortable with taking off. My point being is, if you’re ever on a flight and there is a delay, just remember…there’s always probably a reason for it so, BE PATIENT!
Thanks I'll remember on my next delayed flight.
Twenty or so years ago I was a passenger on a flight out of Atlanta bound for Denver. The plane was at the end of the runway waiting to take off when everything was shut down due to an approaching thunderstorm. The captain repeated an old pilot's aphorism, "It's better to be on the ground wishing your were in the air, than in the air wishing you were on the ground." After a delay of about forty-five minutes, which included some hard rain and wind strong enough to rock the stationary plane, we took off. The climb out of Atlanta was a bit bumpy, and the plane made a lot of turns -- steering around the worst of the weather, most likely -- but might have been a lot worse had we not waited.
Amen
@@russlehman2070 That's when I get off the plane and don't go at all.
@@jn8ive60 There was really no opportunity to get off the plane, had I wanted to. It waited on the taxiway or runway (not sure which) the entire time, then took off as soon as the airport was reopened.
Rest In Peace everyone who lost their lives. So sad that the worst aviation accident could have been avoided so simply.
There were SO many ways this could have ended differently. 😢
So sad that the worst aviation accident wasn't actually AVIAtion
@@MentourPilot yeah. So many ways but it had to be this one 😢
@@la1m1e yeah
@@MentourPilot Indeed. It´s incredible how many holes in the "swiss chease" lined here up.
This was by far the most comprehensive account of a tragedy which left a scar on aviation for decades. A truly epic video, well done.
You should read the book "Collision on Tenerife
The How and Why of the World's Worst Aviation Disaster "
You'd like it.
no it was not, the Panam pilots were big mistake for backtracking and not exiting the C3.
@@danwebd4481
This was by far Van Zanten’s fault. Then it was the tower. The error on the part of the Pan Am pilots were minor compared to anything else.
@@danwebd4481 actually during the investigation the pan am would not have been able to initiate that turn, that's why they tried to continue on to the next taxiway, Charlie 4.
@@kay9549 not true, the turn was difficult but possible
I returned to this video in the aftermath of the accident in Japan following the NY earthquake/tsunami. It’s incredible how one or two small things going wrong can lead to such a devastating result
The KLM captain imo was responsible for taking off without unambiguous clearance, but I also blame the extremely bad and unclear communication from the control tower. Good thing that communication and safety equipment such as radar have improved since then.
It is such a tragic accident.A combination of many events and mistakes rather like the Titanic sinking which aviation has a reminder to not be complacement or assume anything.Human error will always exist
.Such a preventable accident. This account brings home the depth of grief .
@@phillipgardner5322 Yes, this is tragic. In hindsight, with litterally no visibility and overcrowded small airport it would be wise I think from ATC to ground all planes and screw it. Still, I understand them why they proceeded, in theory the visibility was borderline OK for take offs, and they were under extreme pressure. The backlash would have been awful, they might have lost their jobs if they grounded the planes.
I can understand (if not approve of) the decision to continue operations. But why ATC let those 2 big birds onto the runway at the same time in that visibility, I will _never_ understand.
@@DAOzz83 They had only one runway and the taxi ways were clogged. They thought they were safe. They did not imagine any plane would take off without their clearance.
@@Sanderus The ATC should definitely have started each interaction with the KLM flight with "hold".
I've seen other TH-camrs cover this crash and none of them went NEARLY as detailed as this coverage. Very well done! You never disappoint, MP!
I remember hearing in this story years ago that directly after the crash KLM actually tried to contact him (as one of the most decorated / experienced pilots with KLM) as a consultant. Before they realized it was actually him flying the plane that crashed.
Yeah it was on air crash investigation, he was one of their star pilots appearing on advertising etc, yet caused this accident due to being impatient and more concerned he would go over his hours.
The captain was a member of our church in Lisse, he was in the top 3 of the best pilots of KLM
@@acelectricalsecurity definitely not his fault. The airport ATC had to be the most incompetent people I have ever seen. The airport should've paid for the dead victims since the ATC could barely hold a conversation in English as well as told pan am to take a 150° turn which is impossible for the 747.
@@TheSuperBoyProject lick those boots son
@@TheSuperBoyProject Really? What’s your pilot experience to make such a claim?
Hey, BIG THANK YOU to ALL THE GREAT PIOLTS OUT THERE! Thank you for all the hard work you put in to keep your passangers safe. For real.
As an ATC this is one of the events that we study closely and what is called the swiss cheese effect, all the holes in slices of cheese lining up for disaster. You did a great of covering this horrible situation.
there is no Swiss cheese effect here, Swiss cheese doesn't protect you against a knife. The Knife here was watching football while working, that too in bad weather, no effort ever to improve communication.
@@sweetcarbine Multiple points of failure lining up through systems designed to prevent them. That's pretty much the definition of the "swiss cheese" effect.
@@sweetcarbine huh?
About a 100 slices of Swiss cheese all lined up perfectly.
@@Robert_N well if someone is watching football instead of doing their job it million cheese wont matter.
I was there and remember it well. The odd thing is about 5 mins after the accident, the skies cleared with crystal clear visibility and sunshine. The smoke could be seen for miles and friends on neighbouring islands also could see it.
*Bad Things ONLY HaPPen to those who Don't Know Lord Jesus!!!!*
@@Justin.Martyr Disgusting sentiment, you should be thoroughly ashamed of yourself.
Not least for taking your Lord's name in vain.
@@Justin.Martyr Yes, I'm sure none of the more than 500 dead were true christian believers, yeah? 🤔😡
@@matthewkeith8605 *
@@matthewkeith8605*
It's very depressing to me that even though I obviously knew that the crash already happened, and that the hundreds of people on board those flights were already dead, that I hoped for the entire second half of the video that someone would realize the mistake and that it would be one of those "close calls" instead of full on tragedies.
Jez it happens every time I review every crash video and even 9/11- still catching myself upset over and over again hoping it would end differently
One thing that has always bugged me is the seemingly poor audio quality of radio communications with aircraft. Now, I suppose like anything, you get used to it over time, and then find it easier to understand. I've heard my share of these radio transmissions, and to this day, find them very hard to understand. I think it's a minor miracle that planes and towers can understand each other at all. Is it just me?
My understanding is that the audio is clearer in person but recorded at a low quality. I'm not a pilot though, so don't quote me on it.
@@Erik_Swiger
If there was international agreement to switch to digital radio, with an extra feature to indicate that what you heard had just covered up another transmission coming at the same time: then everyone would a) have much clearer voice reception; b) know another message had been missed. [ So DON'T MAKE ANY CRITICAL MOVE until you have the whole picture! ]
If such technology had been available in the mid-'70's it might not have prevented the Tenerife disaster. But if not, it looks like the blame would've been fully on van Zanten's shoulders, plus on his copilot & flight engineer for not wrestling him out of his seat and going to thrust reversers, spoilers + wheel brakes. Maybe even veering to the left, away from where the Pan Am would presumably be, if that seemed safer than continuing straight ahead.
@@fearsomefawkes6724
My dad worked control towers for the RCAF 🇨🇦 in WWII. Even in the '60's he could make sense of words, eg. on AM radio, that were no better than distorted noise to me. So maybe it is a knack that comes with experience.
I stumbled across this video literally while looking at kitten videos and was thoroughly captivated. I can’t believe it was 45 minutes long! Well-researched and -written, well-produced, and excellently narrated. I’ve subscribed to your channel!
So happy to hear you liked it! Welcome to the crew
Not sure what was searching for but it’s 45 minutes later and wow was that ever well done and captivating
@@MentourPilot I’ve searched all through but can t find your version of the Airbus Flight 447. That famous crash . Is it available??
There is a documentary account of this accident told in part by the surviving Pan Am crew and sole survivor from the KLM passenger list (who got off the aircraft to stay with her boyfriend) among others directly related to the accident or investigation. The Pan Am captain (or first officer? Anyone?) was extraordinary. A truly wonderful man. Essential watch. It may have been an AirCrash Investigation special or 'the other one''? (Same anyone?). Very possibly the finest work of its type.
If you watch that documentary you are left with no doubt who was responsible for the accident. Unlike Mentour Pilot who gives the Dutch Captain an easy time (and a boy scouts pilot badge), here he is portrayed for what I believe he was. A narcissist and accident waiting to happen.
@@martinda7446 - I remember watching that documentary.
"sole survivor from the KLM passenger list (who got off the aircraft to stay with her boyfriend)"
I remember her too. Poor girl. She and her boyfriend were living on Tenerife. She had asked if she could just stay but the rules said she had to board the plane and go on to Gran Canaria. But as the time ticked by, she made the decision to just not board the plane and her friends agreed to claim her bag in Gran Canaria and return it to her later. Her 'survivor's guilt' must have been immense.
This accident didn’t just involve any old Pan Am 747, it was the very first 747-121 delivered to Pan American World Airways. Named Clipper Victor, it was also the first 747 to be hijacked when on august 2 1970 it was flown to Cuba. At first this 747-121 was named Clipper Young America, but after the hijacking it was renamed Clipper Victor in order to avoid any negative press around the aircraft still continuing passenger service.
My heart breaks every single time I hear about this accident. It was all so easily avoidable, and there were far too many lessons learned in a horrific way.
I have R.E.G Davies book Pan Am: An Airline and Its Aircraft, which is awesome because it provides the names of all the Clippers. It is my second favorite of his books (my favorite is his book on Delta, which was written around 1991, and which also features a detailed history of Western, Pacific Northwest, Chicago and Southern and Northeast Airlines, which had merged into what is now Delta between the 1950s and 1985 in the case of Western. I wish they would do an updated version covering Northwest...
Seems odd to rename it due to a hijacking... Were they trying to avoid the plane being a "target" for a 2nd hijacking? Or we're people killed on it?
@Soul Man : it sure sounds like this particular 747 is jinxed right from the start. Wonder what Boeing did or did not do during manufacturing of this Jumbo...
( would be interesting to go through the details during manufacturing, if it's still available ).
🤔🤫😷
@@bahardin3992 Clipper Victor was the second 747 ever built and the first one delivered. And that´s not the whole story: The first 747 ever built but only later delivered was the 747 who exploded nearby New York in 1996 as a TWA flight.
They were two charismatic aircrafts, both with a horrible fate.
@@NicolaW72 i thought the 2nd one built was Clipper Juan T Trippe which ended up as a restaurant in Korea.
Patience is really a good virtue we need to posses.
Found this chanell the other day i have already subscribed and im addicted to your great stories.
My uncle happened to be at the village nearby. He ran up and broke into the airport along with friends to help. Countless hours removing bodies and body parts all over the place. It took him weeks to wash the scent of fuel and flesh away. He still has PTSD, severe loss weight and shortly after became diabetic.
Thank him for me...he and his friends did a valuable service for all...PTSD is a hell of a thing to live with...I hope he's getting counselling to help him.
love from Scotland🌹
@@ChristophersMum Thank you mate. Scotland and its people are beautiful. Hope to visit one day.
@@ivanriverooo You will be very welcome
What a brave soul and certainly a hero! Very sorry that it has negatively impacted him going forward from that point. I wish him peace.
Oh, how horrible. What an experience to have in life.
I love how nicely you covered this accident without blaming anyone. In other videos about this accident they mostly talk about KLM captain and his arrogant personality, it was very nice to hear someone actually explaining his actions and trying to understand why did he do certain things. Amazing video as always!
I think those documentaries are made by Americans!
@@jasongomez5344 Aircrash Investigation is Canadian AFAIK but I also find it really well made.
That being said, if I could still slap that KLM pilot across the face, I would.
Thats mentour ... always very professional and objective
*Those who Know Lord Jesus, Never Have ANYTHING to Go Bad, in their LIFE!!!!*
Well, his actions and attitudes certainly contributed to the mishap but pointing fingers is generally less helpful than aiming for a full understanding of how and why, for future mishap prevention.
I lost my flying career after 18 years due to a back injury and watching your videos makes me grateful that I never hurt anyone or damaged an airplane!
This channel is so special because you have such love and respect for your fellow pilots and crew and caring for what they do. Even in a terrible situation like this, when there were terrible pilot errors, you never get angry at them. You must be one amazing pilot.
I was there! My wife and I were coming down the steps of our plane as the accident happened, right behind us, I actually have a photo of me coming down the steps that someone took. Luckily we weren’t able to actually see the collision, the fog was quite thick which added to the confusion. My overriding memory was the scene which I could see out of the window of our returning flight, 2 weeks later, the blackened wreckage of the 2 Jumbo jets piled up on the edges of the runway. My sympathy goes out to all the relatives affected by the this dreadful accident.
Did you hear the impact?
@@boudicca9807 Fortunately no, the first thing I saw was airport staff running around like headless chickens.
Mike if you don’t mind me asking; how old are you right now. I was born in 74. Life is so short and goes by within a blink of an eye.
@@ericac.4316 I’m 69 and you are right that life can go on in the blink of an eye. Life can be short too, I lost my wife to leukaemia when she was 44, and she never got to see our 3 children marry and never got to see our 8 grandchildren. Life can be also be cruel, I also have been diagnosed with leukaemia too, thankfully not the aggressive type my wife succumbed to.
@@mike.47 Thank God you didn't, Mike. The sound alone would have stayed with you for life. I wish you well.
I can imagine how shocked the rescue teams were when they found out that the other set of flames was actually another 747. great video
Was waiting for that one... Sad story that changed aviation...
Thanks, Petter and Dominic ❤✈
You're welcome Denys. Thanks for being here!
The mother of all aviation accidents…
Video with milion views potential
Same here. Waiting for the video and many thanks to Petter and Dominic!
Hello my friend, all good Denys? I'm good.
Nobody explained such deadliest disaster in very clear manner like you explain sir...every minute details mentioned in this video like what happened previous day, from where the two flights took off, why they diverted to Las Rodeos airport, why the communication went wrong, geoographic background of the airport, pilots conversation and crashing and aftermath...kudos to you and keep up the good work sir
Each line you spoke gave me more and more anxiety, and the anticipation of the accident grew as we reached the end part of what had happened. Every passing minute grew more horrible, as we, as viewers realise that there was such an array of events that made it almost impossible to escape from the horrifying accident. As if it was supposed to happen, now I know I shouldn’t say something like that, but there’s something eerie how fate follows it’s course.
yeah, really love his content but there was another video with faulty landing lights and countless obvious stuff which led to an accident in which people died, I had to click away cause my anger and axiety was on another level
It's like the final destination movies. So many wrong things happen that lead to disaster and there is no escape from it!
@@abhinay.mylavarapufear Allah
@@mb2776fear Allah
@@Emmasmith-b8b 😛
I can't even imagine how terrifying it would have been for the survivors on the Pan Am. Absolutely excellent account again as usual Petter
Thank you Jay.. yes, terrible
My mate's dad can imagine it. He was Victor Grubbs!
Radar is very important and control tower is a must to know English as international communications this two things could save a millions live
That was a very well put together and researched documentary. My family lived in Madrid Spain at the time of this accident. My father was a LT. Colonel and was stationed at Torrejon Air Force Base as the flight surgeon for the 613th tactical fighter squadron. He was dispatched to Tenerife to assist with the triage and evacuation of survivors. He arranged for the C130 to transport all of the survivors and he also triaged every survivor before they left. The color photos you have in your documentary showing moments after the accident were actually taken by a young child. An independent photographer initially tried to take credit for the photos. However, Time Magazine later discovered the photographer had bought them for $1 from a child who survived the accident.
Did you attend medical school? I remember reading an article in JAMA by somebody with your surname. I'm a retired neurosurgeon.
There's another poster at the top of all comments (at the moment) who says they're his pics. He also wrote a book about his experience:David Alexander "Never wait for the fire truck". He said one of his pics is at 37:13
Many channels cover the same disasters and incidents but what sets you apart for me is the changes that have been made in the industry due to the incident. As an ATSEP working in the aviation I really enjoy the last parts of the video where you get to see the changes made to make aviation safer than what it was before that day. Great work and really appreciate the hard work you put into going through the actual investigation reports.
I’ve heard about this disaster but this is the first time I’ve really understood how it occurred. Very clearly and well explained, thank you.
I didn't know about it either, till I traveled to the Canary Islands for a vacation. When I returned home my dad told me about it.
Superb! Thank you - I was a Pan Am FA hired a year after Tenerife. As you stated, much was learned from that horrible accident, and the lessons were incorporated even into the flight attendant training.
Regardless of the increased training of the stewardesses, this accident was mainly the cause of the arrogant Dutch pilot.
@martamac7789 The flight attendants studied the Teneriffe accident in their annual emergency training courses. A flight attendant pulled a pilot out of the burning wreckage.
@@robertshapiro3733 You clearly didn't watch the video
My cousin was a flight engineer on a 747-200 around the time this disaster happened. He had infrequently been on a route that took him to Tenerife and was very familiar with the airport. We discussed this disaster in detail. I appreciate the thoroughness of your documentary because I learned a good number of new facts about the incident.
Yeah, that shit with the taxiways never made any sense to me. "yeah never mind the gentle highspeed turn-off on C4, take your 200-foot jet to C3, and make the stupidest possible maneuver known to mankind with it".
Tower controllers that time thought a gigantic 747 can maneuver like a small Cessna 🤡
I agree, but I think it is important to remember that this was an air traffic controller at a tiny airport on an extremely stressful day. He is used to handling small planes and very few planes at a time, now all of a sudden he has to control these 747s (not to mention the language barrier). Some reports say he also had a football game on the TV in the tower.
Unfortunately the tower was not equipped w/ground radar;no centerline lighting inoperatalbe. Unfortunately this airport was ill equipped to handle to jumbo 747s. They perhaps accustomed to handle smaller crafts. It was a holiday weekend, only two comprollers were on duty. Actually they were intuned to a soccer game on radio; so they may have been distracted. Question is why did not the tower. deny klm to refuel; since they had enough fuel to go back to the reopened area. They could have indeed refuel at reopened airport; to continue onto Shipol Amsterdam airport.
@@cadencornobi5796you can't have any sympathy if he had football on
@@kay9549question is why did he have football on when handling this high stress scenerio?
I’ve seen and read about this accident so many times, and as always, Peter did the best job showing in detail what happened.
Thank you! 💕
not any Pan Am details! Squeezy? 20 feet? bullshit
The local lady getting out is true!
I have seen many videos about this accident, but this is surely the most detailed and extensive video I have seen. Nice work!
Also after the accident, the Dutch were actually looking for Van Zanten to help them solve this accident because of his status and experience. Only to find out later he was actually the captain of this doomed flight.
Thank you for your kind words!
Yes, indeed. Captain van Zanten was also the Security Director of KLM at that time. One of his duties in this capacity was to join the investigation team in behalf of accidents in which KLM-aircrafts were involved.
@@NicolaW72 ironic isnt it? He caused the very accident that he was supposed to investigate. i mean its sad that almost 600 people died, as this could have been easily avoided.
@@kodiak9869 I would call it sadly. The fact that van Zanten was not only the Chief Instructor Pilot for the 747-fleet of KLM at that time but also the Chief Investigator of accidents means that he had all experience and all theoretical knowledge to prevent this crash. But he failed to do so. That shows that huge experience and outstanding knowledge doesn´t prevent a human being for making horrible mistakes.
@@NicolaW72 The time he spent on training other pilots was actually cited as a reason for this accident. He was used to acting as his own ATC and giving himself authorization for takeoff. I can't remember how many flight hours he had in the month leading up to this accident, but it wasn't many at all. Just shows how even the best can get rusty without regular practice. EDIT: Oh Petter mentioned that in this video. Hadn't reached that far when I wrote this comment 😅
I'm a former Passenger Service Agent and soon to be Ramp Agent. The KLM captain reminds of a Captain I always use to work with at my previous airline. Very arrogant, impatient and always made our jobs harder. He is very senior and intimidating so nobody really speaks up against him.
I thought CRM changed that.
@@lo_ttie Some countries still lag behind in CRM and some airlines too. It is much rarer today but it still exists. And sometimes CRM might be taught but not drilled as hard into pilots as in other places so 99% of pilots follow it but you got that 1% who think they are too smart for rules when in fact those rules are there because of idiots like them. Petter said it nicely once "Pilots who believe they are gods gift to aviation have no place on a modern flight deck."
And it often is old experienced senior captains. So they grew up before CRM and don't see it as that essential than a young pilot who has never known anything different.
It's why part of CRM is not just how to behave yourself but also how to deal with someone not displaying good CRM practices, for instance young FOs are strongly encouraged to speak up and even intervene if they feel it's needed for the safety of the aircraft. Humans are flawed and many procedures are designed to avoid the flaws of Savannah apes controlling 300 t steel birds at 300 knots. Checklists, lots of warning lights and indications like configuration alarm, if you drop the flaps to 20 or more without the gear down or engines on idle.
But arrogance usually can't be easily corrected like someone being bad at stabilised approaches or handling upsets. These people don't belong in jetliners and most have been weeded out or have retired (or ended in fiery crashes). But a few dinosaurs are still left and especially in cultures where strong respect of elders and superiors is engrained these things still happen. Especially 20-30 years ago it happened a lot in some Asian airlines, typically senior experienced captain makes a mistake and the FO doesn't dare speak up because the captain had already yelled at them over some tiny mistake or behaved arrogantly...
One crash you could tell the FO knew the Captain was crashing it but beyond one or two times making a suggestion (that would have saved everyone) they give up and await death. You gotta remember the people behind you and that they might not be ready to die rather than risking being yelled at again or fired. Which used happen. Junior pilot pisses of senior captain in management position fired (who often fly rarely and make more mistakes, they have to do extra training today because of that, while a junior pilot fresh out of training might actually be flying a lot better despite fewer hours).
Meanwhile, in the mind of such a pushy jerk in power: “Heh, look at how these NPCs have to scurry about for me to avoid confrontation. Like they're afraid of their own shadows. I bark a command and the universe bends to my will. This is the natural order of things.”
Let’s not speak ill of those who are no longer with us.
I can’t help but think that you might want to report that captain.
You would think that considering the weather conditions, the KLM pilot would be 100% positive that he had a clear runway ahead of him. He didn't do that.
He was too concerned about finishing the flight before mandatory downtime kicked in. Too sure of himself and of flight safety.
He was in a hurry.
Perfectly understandable unless you are one of the innocent souls killed by his bad decisions
@@deeprollingriver52 Well they don't have opinions.... cause they're dead
Well being threatened with jail time seems quite silly, making pilots rush. Hope that's not still a thing @@theontologist
@@RealEyesRealizeRealLiez Noone "made him" rush. He decided to rush becasue he didn't want to overnight. He could have!! .. and he could have been faster if he didn't decide (by himself) to fuel = slowing down the enitre process. He is gulty. One hundred percent... but he is Dutch... they are like that.. xx..
I was told that it seemed that at the last moment, the KLM tipped it's right wing up in an attempt to miss the Pan-Am. Captain Grubbs said that if it wasn't for that last action, the KLM would most likely have gone right through the flight deck. I was told this and other details by a very good friend of mine - Victor Grubbs son. So, in trying to get out, Victor fell through a hole in the floor into the first class lounge which was on fire.He managed to get out though he was badly burnt, spent a few months in hospital but made a full recovery thank goodness. There was more that was remembered after the event, but I don't recall everything that was said now.
There is an unrelated fact, another Pan-Am pilot who was very good friends with Victor used to drop by the house all the time. He wrote space stories. You may have heard of him, Gene Roddenbury.
Crazy how small the world feels as big as you tube is this comment made it feel suddenly soo small...
Actually van Zanten was KLMs 747 specialist and star pilot. It’s ironic that he was the main cause of the accident. His action of trying to leapfrog over the PAN AM and lifting his right wing to try to miss/minimise potential damage saved lives and resulted in some survivors on the PAN AM. Such a sad state of affairs for all involved in the disaster.
Yeah I do think that he tried not to hit the other plane the best he could. The fuel that they picked up in Tenarife helped doom them with the extra weight.
@@alekhidell9373 Yeah he was the most experienced. Which I think both helped and hurt. From what I read in different sources, he spent most of his time training people in the simulator and not a lot of actual flight time the last few years before the crash. The simulator is set up to give them the circumstances they need for the training. It's a useful tool but it's not real world where things like ATC exist. It seemed like for a variet of reasons (time pressures (shown in part by his decision to refuel at Tenarife instead of Las Palmas), weather pressures, pressures he faced as the face of KLM, awaiting family, etc) His first officer had been certified by him and had less than 100 hours experience on a B747 and challenged him once according to the CVR and then was quiet after that. The FE had around 550 hours flight experience on a B747 as a FE and more flight hours overall than the FO who turned down a captain stint on a DC-8/9 to be FO on a 747. FE was the last person to challenge his Captain on clearance. From a psychological perspective, there are things in this kind of setup that make me ask questions about the CRM of this crew. Which is what ultimately doomed both planes. You're dealing with human beings. Trained and experienced ones but at the end of the day, with strengths and frailities that can factor into their actions. I think with pilots they to the very end at times believe that they can save the plane or at least not to give up. Alaskan Airlines 261 w/ the failed jackscrew was an example where they kept trying until the end and working together. Albeit arranging with ATC to make sure they "troubleshot" the airplane over the ocean instead of land where there were residences and businesses with people inside to avoid more casualties if the plane crashed.
The captain said he could see all the passengers in the fuselage, most of whom were alive and screaming, right after the top was sheared off, but once the fire started, he said it went totally quiet because the oxygen consumed by the fire made them all incapacitated. That vision must have been a hell of raw trauma for a lifetime.
I was in the Airport in Tenerife that very same night in March 1977...with my wife and a young couple we had met, we were returning to the UK after several months living in La Gomera. It was a late night flight and the weather was unusually bad, rainy and cloudy. We queued up to book in our flight. I was suddenly nervous, I really don't know why, it was a strong and palpable feeling of fear, anxiety, even panic, no mistake. I told my wife and our friends I did not want to take the flight and that I was feeling very weird about it, they were taken aback saying we could not possibly miss the flight. I insisted, it even got embarrassing! As it happens a short while later our flight was actually cancelled due to low visibility and bad weather, I was very relieved and calmed down. We took a flight later around dawn, as the weather temporarily improved. (likely the last flight before the incident) The same day a few hours later this terrible accident happened. I have told this story a few times to friends and the feeling of dread was so strong that night I have always considered it a premonition. Rick M.
You probably could refine those skills. I definitely believe in some ppl having those abilities. Sounds like you definitely do.
I remember this from the time it happened. A decade later I saw a coroner give a presentation about the identification bodies in mass casualty disasters. The slides from this incident were absolutely horrendous; I could not "unsee" them for a long time. Thank you for the thoughtful explanation about how it happened.
I would say most if not all of the burned body's are interred in Westminster Memorial Cemetery, Westminster California 92683. Orange County. There in the area my folk are in, there is a large grass square with no markers, in the center of this large grass square is a large flat marker that states the date of the air crash and list all those that died. There must be some 100 + names on that marker. RIP.
Man….you Mentor Pilot did a superb job of explaining the circumstances that led up the this terrible unfortunate disaster….. I’ve seen many videos about this tragedy and your documentary was by far the best ever on this terrible avoidable crash…. Again what a beautiful job you did on this video , kiddos and keep up the great work!
I am not an aviator, although I have flown many hours in many aircraft types, both as a civilian passenger and as a wildland firefighter. What Petter points out is the importance of clear communication and teamwork. I damned near got killed with my whole crew when our radio contact failed, but our teamwork saved us: we worked together with whatever information we had available to survive a terrifying firestorm, and we were lucky. Those hours are burned in to my memory and still my bad dreams.
The lengths the aviation industry go to take lessons after a disaster is absolutely incredible, piecing it all together. It's interesting that humans can hear the same message differently - add in the differences in language, it shows us how successful communication is a challenge and yet crucial in this field. IMO, the KLM pilot heard what he wanted to hear a few times. I also find it interesting that the new out of hours law, intended to make it safer, had the opposite effect and added stress. Had they not been in such a hurry they may have lived. One night away from his family turned into being for good. It's also interesting that all of these aviation disasters are usually down to human error, not always but mostly.
Yeap the Nuclear industry does the same, the safest industries are those that used to be the most dangerous haha.
imagine if we treated crime the same way. we could prevent future crime instead of just tossing those "guilty" into crime collage so the cops can justify expanding their budgets and powers. its a nice fantasy.
@@thecanadianfuhrer8602By prevent future crime, do you mean fighting against single motherhood (a significant factor in career criminality) and/or something else that correlates with crime, or do you mean something out of minority report?
@@orppranator5230lmao lmaoo "single motherhood" I can smell the disgusting cuckness from you through my screen incel cuck
I've been waiting for Petter to cover this one and once again he doesn't disappoint. I can't count how many times I've seen this horrible tragedy analyzed and as usual Petter gives me information I've never heard before, great job.
@Samurai Warriors : information you've never heard before..
could you give some examples of this informations? that's you only heard here in this video by Petter .
thanks 😊
Today, March 27th if 2024 we remember the 47th year of this horrible accident
May the souls of the victims rest in peace and God bless their families that lost their love ones that horrible day
Thank you for the video, my aunt and uncle were on the KLM flight and this has helped to understand what went wrong in a neutral way (many reports tend to have a bit of an angle).. Also very glad that as a result aviation safety has been improved with the learnings from all the things that went wrong...
Oh wow..Im sorry..did they pass in the accident
@@annieoops6243 unfortunately they did..like everyone else on the KLM..
I'm very sorry for your loss, but glad that you can find solace that this disaster improved aviation safety substantially.
Not to appear rude, but just so you are aware, "Avian" refers to birds, "Aviation" is the word you were looking for. :)
@@MGSLurmey thanks for pointing out that spelling error, I typed on my phone so think autocorrect got me ;)
Learnings? This should have been common sense. Do not let aircraft take off in horrible weather conditions like this.
My aunt erma schlect was on the pan am. She survived to live a long happy life dying of old age! Many of the survivors were from our hometown of Longview, Wa. USA . Thank you for the technical side of this. I have a better understanding and the anger I have because she went threw so much has been removed from my heart.
Bless you, always.
Your Aunt generously spoke of her experience during her lifetime. We are blessed by her strength and courage, and I hope sharing her experience with historians helped her cope with the horror she experienced. May she rest in peace.
Anger? 580 people died and you know the survivors. At who was the anger pointed? Panam, for not taking the 3rd turn and moving on, KLM for taking off, or the Spanish guy who watched football? (soccer in your country) This is one big tragedy for everyone in those planes.
@@monicacarolina6480 calm down Karen. People are allowed to experience emotions. Did you miss the fact that the taxi ways weren’t marked properly? Did you miss the part where KLM issued their own take off? Seems like you did… Are you Dutch, and salty because KLM was at fault? Because that seems to be what’s happened.
@@monicacarolina6480 it's called grief; anger is a stage and can sometimes be life-long. I can only assume you've never experienced tragedy in your life to understand this.
One survivor said that as she and her husband were about to get out of the plane, she looked back and saw her friends, another couple, sitting calmly in their seats. She wanted to do something but had to save herself. This recollection came up in an interview for a book about how and why some people survive disasters, and some don't. The author said that often people just freeze. I've heard that elsewhere too.
Gosh that’s creepy. Imagine that. Two people staring at flames coming towards them and not moving.
@@jacobr8063 The same thing happens when cars make water landings. The person is in denial that they are in the water and need to get out so they freeze and do nothing. One lady was on the phone with 911 who were telling her to get out of her car and the woman was insisting she would be fine staying in her car, she wasn't as she drowned.
Pull up footage of the 2004 tsunami in Thailand. Most people just sat there watching the giant wall of water that was on it's way in to kill them.
Well they had a choice. Freeze or jump 20-30 feet to the tarmac and break their bones to save their lives.
@@laprimaverabycristobalpola4199 Well, your alternative is to jump 20 feet to a hard concrete surface and if you are too old or too young you probably won't make it anyway.
This is the best documentary I’ve ever seen about this disaster. So insightful. Thank you.
I never heard of this disaster. However, after learning about it from this documentary and another one I found, it gave me the chills. It is such a shame that something like this could happen and that so many innocent people had to lose their lives because of it. RIP victims of this terrible disaster. 45 years later, your story is still being told.
Wow, you never heard of this disaster? Really....I'm sorry, but someone has to tell you that you are rather clueless. So much has been written about this disaster by so many people, that I feel unworthy to even offer my [worthless] opinion. If Mentour's video has piqued your interest, then he has indeed, done well.
Yes, I know...I dont want to rant, but I felt I had to reply personally. Nick, this is aviation's worst disaster ever in all aviation history. One could spend so many hours studying just this one tragedy...
I don't promote YT material, but a few hours on Mentour's channel could be quite informative and worthwhile for you...1.2 Million subs can't be wrong. I appreciate your reply, you may find studying aviation [and other] disasters is quite interesting, just as I have.
what? this is the biggest ever disaster in avaition history to date.
@@yoseflisanuhaile601 Unfortunately, I never learned about events like this in history when I was in school. While I enjoyed my history classes and everything they taught me, I always learned about the same things every year like the World Wars, the American Revolution, the Civil War, and even the voyages of Christopher Columbus. I never even knew what truly happened on 9/11, except from stories my family told me when I was 5 or 6 years old, or the way it changed the world forever until I was in high school. I am 23 years old and I am still learning about moments in history that I never knew about before, including the Tenerife disaster. Hopefully events like this disaster, 9/11, and other ones won't be forgotten and will be remembered for the next generations to come.
@@nicholasgibbons9917 Didn't expect a reply never mind such an articulate and long one. Americans need to go beyond and learn other things that happens in the rest of the globe. An AMERICAN ambassader to ETHIOPIA (AFRICA) once said " he was visiting this very remote village in ETHIOPIA and one of the villager told him that the whole village was very sorry about 9/11 . the Ambassader later said " never ever thought people from such a small and remote villlage in Ethiopia would ever know about 9/11.
It was the worst disasters in aviation
My Grandmother's friend perished on the Pan-Am. Genevieve Foley, from Palos Verdes, CA. RIP to her and every victim. Mentour Pilot with an amazing, educational lesson on this tragedy.
HE wasn't on this plane -he is lying
@@jamesjross What?
@@jamesjross She was on the plane. Her name is on the list of passengers that died
I was twelve years old and remember this vividly from the news. Even as a child I remember thinking, how could this happen? Now I know, and as usual it was a series of things that all combined to produce this horror. The woman who did not take the KLM flight, I cannot imagine what she went through or is still dealing with.
That's not much to go through or deal with. Things almost happen all the time.
@@aluisious what
@@aluisious I agree with what u said for the first but for the second is weird bro
I was 7.
@@fredlandry6170 I was 14 when that happened. 15 later that year.
No matter how many times I hear this story, every time I still hope pan am manages to get off the runway in time.
I saw a documentary on this as a teenager, and my father started talking at the end, quietly talking about the friend of his who was celebrating finishing his internship and was finally able to take the time to go with his wife, also a young doctor but further along in her career, on vacation. A nice cruise starting in the Canary Islands. The seating on the Pan Am was screwed, up though, see. They were seated seperately.
She never came home.
I then understood why my mom didn´t stay in the room to see the program.
Mesmerized. He's got such a gift for narration. Presenting complex, detailed events in a manner that wholly educates, and draws one in. Glaringly obvious what a phenomenal pilot he is, dedicated to the betterment of the industry. The tragedies really grab my heart tight, but also grateful in what is learned out of them. Absolutely love the channel.
The fact that the worst incident in the history of aviation happened on ground due to miscommunications and other coincidences really shows how safe air travel is.
Nah, it's just that when something happens in the air, it's just that one plane that crashes.
This is the worst because it contained two planes (i.e. twice the people)
I don't understand if you're being sarcastic but air travel is extremely safe.
Yeah, this is some garbage airport, main city airports won't really have these problems. These tiny airports are made for small planes and not something like a 747.
it's only considered "the worst" because two planes crashed into another meanings twice the casualties in one accident
from this video I can see that everything from the procedure to technology used is completely insufficient, amateurish wouldn't be pushing it, now it was many decades ago so they had an excuse, but what worries me is that the technology is not much better today, even though it exists
there is no backup fly from ground, there is still not enough redundant systems, the planes and every angle of it arent litered in cameras the crew can access, they use radio instead of cellular communication or internet towers even when in range of such things, there is no procedure for repeating a communication that didn't go through, or even noticing one, there was no ground radar on the airport, and it wasn't litered with cameras every 50 meters on the runway, and name one airport today that has anything like that, there are none, even though it would cost them less than 1% of their yearly expenses to install something like this
accidents will keep happening and many thousands more people will die being burned alive because the design of the planes and prodecures are completely barebones, and cut corners wherever they can, they don't even make any small improvements until accidents happen, it's the only thing that has been moving the industry forward at all, deaths and close calls, they don't update and improve their systems on their own
I challenge you to show me any airplane accident that could not have been avoided by an affordable technology or procedure change, you will fail.
@@panda4247 not always. There has been two planes that have collided in the air due to the pilots not following the descent or the climb instructions given to them.
I found your channel and this video only now. It IS an excellent, humane, objective analysis of this horrific accident.
I was a small kid when this happened and lived in the Iberian peninsula. This was horrible and stayed on the news of both Spanish and Portuguese newstations for quite a while.
As with most similar events, there were CLEAR ways out before it happened.. sadly, none were taken.
I saw another documentary about this which said that after the passengers had reboarded KLM a head count showed there were four people missing and that, it turned out two children had been separated from their parents, it said that the captain of the KLM was quite abrupt and rude to some of the flight crew telling them they’d better find them, the children and their parents were eventually located and reboarded the aircraft ……… sadly yet another turn of events that led to such awful consequences that day 😢
As anyone who has worked in commercial aviation will know, the unruliness, disorganised behaviour and unreliability of passengers take many forms, and it is not at all unusual for stress-provoking situations to escalate from minor beginnings. This is why many pilots choose to work for freight haulers, since cardboard boxes tend to behave themselves. The KLM flight which was delayed at Los Rodeos carried 'package holidaymakers' from the Netherlands, and many of these people would have been likely to have had little knowledge of aviation, may have been experiencing 'fear of flying' as a typical trait of the uninformed, and in 1977 were still wary of the concept of rapid international travel. The PIC of their 747 may have had seniority and experience on his side, but he had spent the previous twelve weeks training junior aviators on a simulator, which was a different proposition altogether in the 1970s. Whatever the case, Jacob Veldhuyzen van Zanten had clear responsibilities in all aspects of his duties, and these included being able to deal safely with all the implications of unforeseeable delays, errant passengers, marginal visibility, language differences with ATC services, crowded airports, having to cope with the idiosyncrasies of a second-string facility such as Los Rodeos, distant activities of militant criminals, possible exigent circumstances and numerous other occurrences. What is not understood by most non-pilots is that all of these vicissitudes are entirely normal in the day-to-day lives of Cockpit Crew and Cabin Crew, and solving such problems is what these people are trained for and paid to do on a routine basis. Except for Mr van Zanten, all others discharged their responsibilities to a reasonable standard on Tenerife that day, and 583 people would have lived beyond 27th March 1977 if one Dutch pilot, for reasons that even today essentially remain unexplained, had not chosen to execute a takeoff when he did not have permission to do so, and quite possibly took an action which amounted to Multiple Gross Negligence Manslaughter in Legal Terms.
What is not mentioned in articles or documentaries about this is that the 747's were not parked near the terminal they were parked in a different part of the airport located about a half a mile (900 m) from the terminal. Passengers would have needed to be bussed between the plane and the terminal. Presumably this bus would have been provided by the airport.
This completely changes the picture of the logistics of the situation from what one might imagine from the descriptions. One might imagine for example that most the KLM passengers went to the terminal during the delay, and that they simply stepped off the airplane and walked a couple hundred feet to the terminal. But the logistics would have been much more time consuming than this. If we assume that there was only one bus it would have had to make several back and forth trips between the airplane and the terminal, not to mention the loading and unloading time for each trip. And then repeating this for the return trip to the airplane. With 235 passengers on board this would be a lengthy operation even if only half of the KLM passengers went to the terminal.
Also since this was not an airport serviced by KLM there would be no KLM staff inside the terminal. Perhaps one or more of the KLM flight attendants rode the bus to the terminal with the passengers and then remained in the terminal with the passengers, and somehow remained in communication with the aircraft for instructions. Or else they sent the passengers to the terminal on their own and expected the airport staff to announce to passengers when they should return to the plane, which is also possible.
With this in mind, when the documentary that you watched states "the captain of the KLM was quite abrupt and rude to some of the flight crew telling them they’d better find them". Who is he talking to, flight attendants on the airplane? Is he telling them to get on the bus and ride a half a mile to the terminal to go look for the missing passengers? Something about this picture is incomplete, there are a lot of missing details here.
@@johnstedman4075 While some passengers indeed are problematic, the airline industry albeit airports, airline crews are increasingly getting more rude and aggressive.
@@Miguel195211 I think the reason why they get more aggressive is that they are paid less in real wages (especially the flight attendants and ground crew) and get more pressure for being on time, as a result of several crisis in the airline industry and the general trends of capitalism increase the pressure of maximizing profits.
@@johnstedman4075 flying was much unsafer at that time to be fair.
I'm a truck driver. I couldn't imagine the intense responsibility of that many lives in my hands. I do realize however that any lapse in judgment or attentiveness could put a lot of people at risk. One big no no in all circumstances is to not hurry. It almost always causes more problems then good. We all want to go home and not get stuck on the road but if it's a close window time wise, slow down don't speed up it may save your life and/or someone elses.
Straight land gd steam problems reason of it few time to need side park with park indicators
Engine cease in air and flying Blanc gd 0ption
Great to hear mate! I sometimes feel like people don't realise the great responsibility that truck drivers have. Super important job and a 5second lapse can kill a whole family
I have such respect for truck drivers, being able to drive such beasts of machines with such precision!
This crash interested me ever since it happened. I was 17 years old back in 1977 and remember the photos on the front of Time Magazine. I had seen many documentaries on this crash and I can say without a doubt that this was perhaps the best presentation. The graphics of the crash, seeing what each pilot saw just before the impact was quite chilling and eerie, because it actually happened. This presentation was very detailed in explaining the fog as actually being clouds among other things that you mentioned that was missing from the other documentaries. Very accurate and educational presentation. I will be looking at other documentaries from you. Thank you.
i think with the visibility conditions it would have been wiser to maybe wait, but i think this is pretty standard stuff, i might be wrong, but man, the KLM pilot was gonna take off without clearance, his FO had to stop him, and then when the flight engineer asked if the panam was out of the runway, he said yeah sure, he didnt know, he had no way to know, and he didnt give a shit.
@@juncearyoutube3336 Yeah if not for the terrible visibility this wouldn't have happened, but the captain was super impatient.
I used to live in the area near Pike's Peak in Colorado(US), and yeah... that's a high enough altitude that sometimes if you're on a hill you can look down at the tops of what's actually a cloud bank. It's not fog in the normal sense and will quite often persist all day long. Some days you just can't see more than a short distance due to the entire area being covered. I would NOt want to fly in THAT. riding a bicycle is bad enough.
That crash has a lot more to it that many will ever understand. I was on the island that day. Look at history of that aircraft. Ans history of the island.
@@e.natashap.257 any specific aspects you think are particularly important?
Look at the political history and the timing of the event. Everyone knows that at that time of day el teide emits fog over the airport.
Ditto to all the comments complimenting you on the excellent factual and storytelling that goes into your videos! Your channel is my go to for obtaining information that no one else possesses, or does, but they fall short on their delivery. Kudos Mentor!