The BEST GameCube Games? Luigi's Mansion vs Kirby Air Ride - Madness
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ก.ย. 2024
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Welcome to episode 4 of Madness Season 4: Best GameCube Games! We're trying to decide not only what are the best games that released on the Nintendo GameCube, but which is THE best game on the GCN. In this episode it's two powerhouses of Nintendo, Luigi's Mansion vs Kirby Air Ride, but who will win?
In this season we have one guest:
Spacehamster of PB and Jeff : bit.ly/2ssNHAV
Madness is a discussion/debate show where we decide what we think is best in any given category of video games, movies, food or anything else. We make a tournament style bracket, and the winning subject of each discussion goes onto the next round until we find a winner.
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#LuigisMansion #KirbyAirRide #GameCube
I change my vote to the sound foam that keeps falling off our ceiling.
the foam really wants to cast its own vote this season lol
New channel " Did you know Glue" 😂
Those ghosts from Luigi's Mansion are naughtier than i remember.
I'm upset it took this long to realize it is the definitive game on the Gamecube.
Is that what that random jump cut was in the middle of the video?
You guys could do a whole tournament based strictly on either Zelda games going against each other or Mario games going against each other
That's a Good idea
With how much time that would take you could just PLAY Majora's Mask.
That would be amazing!
Oooh!!
That is an awesome ideia, actually!
But is pressing B to Mario the e s s e n c e of the Nintendo Gamecube?
No, pressing A is
@@wonkerz2050 But is pressing ̶B̶ ̶A̶ Nunchuck C to Mario the e s s e n c e of the Nintendo Gamecube?
Sure, buddy. Go for it.
Having a button to Mario IS the essence of the GameCube.
Isn't A the Mario button? or am I just crazy?
1:20 Shane's actually supporting Austin's point, that diary was written during the development of Luigi's Mansion and directly/intentionally hints at Luigi's debut starring role. If not for Luigi's Mansion's development, that wouldn't have been there.
did you just um, actually his um, actually?
Alex Mott www
@@brendanrisney2449 What?
I really don't feel like explaining this. But essentially Shane said he did an um, actually (which is a term you'll have to look up if it isn't self-explanatory) and then Alex here, as I said, um, actually-ed Shane's um, actually.
@@brendanrisney2449 Ohh I get ya.
The worst part about Kirby Air Ride is that it isn't titled "Kirby's Air Ride."
do not @ me
@Razbuten
You monster.
Razbuten lol
@Razbuten you're wrong and you should feel bad
@me
Somewhere, Antdude suddenly senses a disturbance
I was hoping he would just jump into the video out of nowhere at some point. :P
I want Antdude on the show
@@highestapple523 Me too that would be so awesome!
Lol
Funny, considering I watched his video on this game before watching this so I would know what they were discussing. I owned (and still do ) Luigi's Mansion but never played this game before not being into Kirby.
Im OK with being the Butt of the joke.
I made a career out of it.
Austin Hargraves -2019.
@@pocus2684 haha you sure about that
@@pocus2684 seems to be going fine for a few people
Yes it is.
Superman 64 vs Sonic 06. The discussion of glitches alone would make for a great Madness video.
At least Sonic 2006 was playable.
Sonic 06: *repeatedly get hit by Silver*
"This is a flaw in my design."
Sonic boom vs sonic 06
@@ADespairBoi That game is better. You know why?
Boost Pad Rocks!
darkcloak100 Sonic 06 will win because it had great music, and they actually attempted to make a great game.
The "checklists" of Kirby Air Ride should have been mentioned. Achievements before there were achievements? Also, the game's depth is hiding in the extensive checklist of tasks.
I agree, also the game was about finding out what to do, whats this event? whats this rainbow spike thing? thats the "character" of air ride
It certainly felt like kirby airride lost because it failed to do what the judges (especially shane) expect from a cart racer, rather than because it didn't have enough merits. In fairness, as a pure racer experience mario kart wins hands down, that's why nobody plays the airirde mode in kirby. I think city trial therefore needs to stand on it's merits as a party experience and kinda needs the nostalgia angle, in terms of experience with the game and its core gameplay loop (which heavily plays into getting those unlocks) to be a full experience.
Let's also not forget about being able to unlock all the different air ride machines along with Meta Knight, King Dedede, and many different colors of Kirby.
Not to mention the music just being great, with themes like checker knights, city trials, The Lengendarynair ride machine, frozen hillside, and more these are great themes for racing and just relaxing to, Luigi’s Mansion is alright but beside for a few noteable one like the main theme where Luigi hums and a few others, it’s not as diverse in tracks as Kirby Air Ride
I felt like air ride was very hard to control and while that was fine with Air Ride mode as it doesn't really need any
The city mode was the main draw and I couldn't turn and I was going a million miles per hour, and so I got very frustrated
Although I do love achievements as they give games with no clear goal, a goal.
Honestly my favorite part of minecraft (minus modding) and smash (3ds version only) was getting the achievements
I don't know about you, but I have a deeper connection to Kirby's Air Ride. The game has challenge boards. You are prompted and rewarded for beating achievements. You gain more vehicles, more pallet swaps, Dedede, Meta Knight. This game is full of fun and perfect for kids. When I first got the game, I wasn't too attached with Top race, but after awhile with the main races and Trial City, I gave it a college try and ended up completing it's challenge board with my Sis. This game helped bring me and my sis closer as siblings. My friends would play this game with me and we love every second of it. Especially in Trial City. We even made up our own little game in the game where we jousted along the high-speed railways.
As for Luigi's mansion, it's fine. It had great personality and atmosphere. Luigi was given more character that would carry on to several games. The gameplay is kinda unique, very familiar to what it might be like being a Ghostbuster, but ya know, without the proper proton packs. But at the end of the day, it's very short and it didn't pull me back in. I don't have any desire to play it again as I would with say Wind Waker or Smash.
My overall experience with Luigi's mansion was fine. With Kirby's Air Ride, there was so much more offered to me, more time invested to it. And even with some of the more difficult challenges, me and Sis would triumph over them and celebrate on our skill.
I didn't even have the desire to play even to the first boss, it's a vacuum simulator woo. This was when my only other option to play was my gba with yoshi's island. Luigis mansion is a I'd rather play outside/10
I have no idea how Lee decided that the arguments for Luigi's Mansion justified it winning here. The arguments for Kirby Air Ride were way better and made the panel seem like they enjoyed it a lot more. On the other hand I feel Luigi's Mansion could have been discussed a lot better, like talking about the dialogue (the Boo names were all great) and the humorous side of the game more. I think for how it was discussed, this round shouldn't have swayed right at the end the way it did
It usually seems that way to me as well, but I can't really disagree with Furst, both games are basically equal to me.
Lol I was going to comment on that same thing. Like, I don't want to say his vote was wrong, because he can vote however he wants to, but when he prefaces it with "based on the discussion," how could he justify voting Luigi? I'm not even saying that because I prefer Kirby. I genuinely don't see how the discussion made him vote that way. From what I got out of the arguments, it seemed clear that:
1) Kirby is a great game but might be a little light on content and character (even though they forgot to mention the challenges) with controls that were meant to be simple but confused people apparently (couldn't disagree more).
2) Luigi is a short, flawed, and simple game that is oddly replayable.
Like, most of the time Kirby was discussed, they talk about it's positives, even if they don't fully appreciate it. But with Luigi they kept talking about how it's flawed and short and easy but they just like the game. Based on that, Kirby should win.
I realize out just went into way more detail than necessary but I would really like to know why Lee thought that was the winner based on the discussion.
City Trial in Air Ride is one of my favorite multiplayer experiences of all time. What keeps me going is the existence of the legendary air ride machines. The game makes those pieces rare enough that assembling Dragoon or Hydra always feels like a great accomplishment, arguably a greater accomplishment than just winning the round.
I’ve replayed Luigi’s Mansion a lot. I’ve played both a lot, and even though Kirby is supposed to be replayable, Luigi’s Mansion for some reason is always fun to play again and again
SSBJack911 “for some reason”
Bias detected
@@grape448 More likely that Luigi's Mansion is just a better made game? After watching PBG play both Luigi's Mansion and Kirby Air Ride, he seemed to have WAY more fun with Luigi's Mansion (even when he had no nostalgia bias towards either game, being his first time with the games).
There are better games like Kirby Air Ride. There are no better games like Luigi's Mansion.
I respect Jeff so much in this episode. He understood that his experience with Kirby wasn't what it was meant to be and acknowledged how good of a game he knows it is. And he voted for it even though he has spent so much more time with Luigi. I like seeing the hosts to do that. Just voting for a game because you like playing it doesn't make it the BEST game, it makes it your favorite.
And I could actually FEEL Jared's dismay throughout the episode. I knew he would be fighting an uphill battle from the beginning but I think he did the best job he could. There isn't much else to say about the game. But it is still leagues better than Luigi's Mansion.
its a pretty stark contrast to a certain other matchup in a previous madness season, that's for sure.
But Jeff isn't a host, and isn't bound by a need to stay impartial with his vote. Him voting for Kirby just feels like he's being dishonest with himself, or even guilty that he somehow doesn't like Air Ride more. Which is weird to me because nobody I knew even played the game.
Sorry but I don't see what there is to respect here. He likes Luigi's Mansion better but feels bad that he doesn't like Air Ride? It isn't even skewed as him overcoming a guilty pleasure. It's one thing to say something like "I'll vote street fighter 5 the better fighting game even though I personally have a childhood with Bushido Blade" because in that example there's admittance that nostalgia is the only thing making them compete... but as far as I can tell this isn't the case here.
@@MixMasterLar I think they try to be impartial on this show whether if they are the host or not. Jeff probably gave Kirby the vote because he believed that if he spent the same time with Kirby air ride as he has with Luigi's Mansion, he'd like Kirby air ride more. I think that's a decision worth respecting.
Don't get me wrong, Jeff seems like a cool guy and as a content creator I've nothing but respect for him
But like, he didn't spend more time with Air Ride, so the choice boils down to a hypothetical "oh I mighta liked this more if I played it" which, well all I can say is logic i would personally never use in this case.
The reason why Kirby has more depth than Luigi's Mansion even with the one button controls is that every star plays dramatically different than the rest; while in other racing games changing "cars" just slightly tweeks speed or weight. that's why it takes time to master.
Carlos Rodríguez can i like this MILLIONS of time....
They should not choose a winner at the end of there video... they should wait for the comments, see all the arguments they missed, then choose >
I honestly look forward to these episodes now, I've been catching up on the back log and it's just great! Great work guys!
There are so many things that weren't discussed in Kirby Air Ride, like Sakurai's infamous unlockable mission grid (which started with this game), lots of rides to unlock, awesome track design, and AMAZING music. Trying to complete Kirby Air Ride is challenging due to the mission grid. Not many might like the repetitive progression, but it has high replay value.
I've played several dozen more hours of Kirby than any other game on this list. For me, a lot of the substance was in trying to pass of the checklists, both solo and with my friends.
"I've got the cannon powerup!"
"Oh sweet, you need to murder me with that three times!"
Or,
"It's Dyna Blade!! Smack him in the face!!"
Luigi is good, but back then, I was very dissapointed by how short it was, and.... that was it. I was dissapointed with Air Ride at first.... but the more I played with my friends, the more fun it got, I could sit and play city trial with some friends any time and have a blast, you could say it lacks content compared to other games, but I will argue it is even more fun that Double Dash, a game that I also think lacked a lot of content since I used to play a lot of CTR before it.
Ricky Dargence yes ^^ exactly! First air ride try i didn bought it... i rent it... i didnt liked it at first, but then i tried again and it become more and more fun! And i grew lot of love for this game! ^^ i bought it not to late after that
This series has me seriously addicted. Love these guys!
To be fair neither of these games are capable of making it past the next round
It was briefly touched on but I feel like Luigi’s Mansion is such a success because of its atmosphere- the backtracking works because it’s a smaller space so it’s exciting to see a nook of the mansion you missed. I love the Boos because it’s an actual challenge of the skills you learned and I got more of a rush than frustration catching and chasing them. They also still add unique cool characters in act 3, and also am I the only one who thought the Boo major boss was actually fun?
I was "that kirby air ride kid," and when my friends and I would all get together to game and they would all get tired of shooters, we would either play 4 player melee or kirby. What made Kirby so great as a party game was that there was a fast learning curve, and once you get past the learning curve of the game, there was very competitive moments, but also great cooperative moments trying to get the check boxes in city trial. I never liked top down as a kid, but it grew on me as I got older. I also had a lot of fun playing air ride mode, but I get why it doesn't appeal to everyone.
please make more discussion videos, its always fun!
I love Kirby Air Ride. There were so many great fun moments spent with family. Luigi's Mansion was a great game, but Kirby Air Ride just was filled with fun.
Discovering the secrets of the first phase of the game was so immersive. I think I prefer it to GTA's multiplyaer.
They didn't even mention the achievement board in Air Ride. That gives you a lot of different things to do
I felt with Jared so much. I loved Luigis Mansion, to a point where I started looking for a used copy in every GameStop.
Yet I just adored playing Kirby Air Ride. A game I just eternally rented from a brother's friend who just somehow never cared to get it back. City Trial was just so much fun for me. Even though I had no one but the CPUs to play it with. The simple yet deep mechanics, the actually really many hidden details and refefences, searching for the mysterious LEGENDARY machine parts, unlocking Meta-Knight and Dedede, trying out many different ways to beat City Trial (legendary machine collector, upgrade junkie, battle master), and above them all, tackling all the super fun challenges on the checkboard.
It was a blast!
That picture of Jeff in the thumbnail is wonderful
Thanks Jared for fighting the fight for Kirby Air Ride. Luigi’s mansion is fun, but Kirby Air Ride is amazing to me, so thanks for giving it a shot.
Also the random events in city trial and the checklist that I personally had a lot of fun unlocking different things with for later playing with friends was never brought up, but that’s fine, not sure if it would have even changed anything, but I had a lot of fun with them.
It doesn't matter which one wins. They're not going to make it past Paper Mario TTYD.
Don’t underestimate Madness, lol.
@@7ylerD you make a good point, but if paper Mario doesn't make it to finals, I'm throwing a riot.
I honestly don't think it stands a chance against any of the other 4 games left on the bracket.
True
One thing they forgot to mention from Kirby Air Ride, which I don't blame them for, is that the main "objective" of the game was the challenge board, as Sakurai's games often have. That was the big thing you were supposed to complete that kept you going back to do races.
I think I agree with Jared most of the time.
Same
I was just about to post this and you beat me to it, Jared has the best picks. And I almost always disagree with Austin.
Not sure if i agree with him most of the time or not, but i do think that his arguments are the most fair and levelheaded of the groups. He seems to take everyones opinions into account and give a proper rebuttal if he disagrees.
@@abum22 And he doesn't interrupt too much.
*flashbacks of caddicarus intensify*
@@StriderZessei 100 percent agree
That Gamecube/PC keyboard controller on the shelf in the background is just amazing.
Luigi's Mansion's use of atmosphere and sound design, combined with graphics that are still pretty good today, makes it unmatched imo. Very underrated game. No other mario game was like it, and it's sequel couldn't come close to it.
"Play it for 30 mins, you've experienced the whole game"...? Not really. You forgot the introduction of boos, elemental medallions, mario's items, etc
Jared really didn't provide actual counter points other than "woah tech demo! >:("
Yeah, I wasn't really swayed at all by any of Jared's comments this episode. It really just felt like he was frustrated about Kirby possible losing. The majority of the legitimate counterpoints were brought up by Austin and Shane, who voted for Luigi's Mansion in the end anyway.
@@huffletuff7 definitely.
Luigi Mansion has more to do . Kirby's air ride is only fun when you have friends
Kirby Air Ride. City Trial + The checklist alone sells it. And the music is phenomenal. I found myself humming some of the tracks the other day, and, hell, I listen to them still.
Luigi’s Mansion is my favorite Resident Evil game
I was late to the Gamecube party(2005ish?). I was entering middle school and had near no friends, and my brother was in to Melee moreso than anything. My taste in games has swayed since I was younger, namely more into fantasy RPGS nowadays, when I get the time to play anything: I can say with certainty that I've been playing the majority of Kirby Air Ride by myself for thirteen years straight and have gotten a whole lot of joy from it. There's sooo much to unlock AND learn about the tracks you play on and the machines you use(that's how I've improved my Air Ride and Top Ride times, P.S. Wheelie Scooter is the coolest). Plus, every City Trial match is so different and thrilling, in the city area alone! You can put any incredible and/or timeless game in front of me to play, and I'll always say Kirby Air Ride is my favorite game of all time; it's so much more to me than how objectively good it is. I can easily relax to a game of City Trial and play a few races any day, it's almost a ritual at this point.
Thanks for listening.~
I've always found traditional cart racers obscenely boring because their just consists of holding down a button to accelerate and drifting. If you remove the items from those games you'll quickly realize that the game is a slog because as soon as your focus is put on the actual controls it stops being fun. The reason I adore Kirby Air Ride is that the game is easy to learn difficult to master. While the whole game can be controlled using a stick and a button (also the c stick for camera) there are so many thing you need to learn to be any good at it. Knowing how to glide effectively is important, knowing how to quick drop and then do a perfect landing is always something fun to pull off, and charging boosts as a way to drift is way more satisfying in my opinion. Most of the carts have game changing gimmicks that are great fun learning how to use them effectively (which you'll need to learn for city trial and the various other challenges). The maps have great character and music, and because it's a Sakurai game, the menus and challenges boards are fantastic doing progression in a completely different way than any other cart racer before or after. I love Air Ride for all these reasons and more, but the main reason I love it is that they decided to do something new for the genre instead of being another of the hundreds of Mario Kart clones that some of you seemed to want it to be.
This is my favorite season of Madness yet. No one seems to be hogging the spotlight. No one's cutting anyone off. No one's enforcing their viewpoint. It's great. (Although I'll admit I never watched much of the PS1 round, never owned a PS1.)
So are we just not going to mention the challenges board? Maybe it's just the completionist in me, but I think it really adds to the single-player experience. To this day, I've never played a 4-player City Trial, but it's still so much more magical than anything else I can think of. It reminds me of the experience a lot of people describe when Pokémania hit, with the playground rumors that there was some big secret under the surface, but no rumor your friend told you about in this could really top the experience of being a kid, finding these secrets for yourself. It really felt like I had discovered something, and for a game to be able to manufacture that feeling is extra special. I know a lot has changed with how powerful of a tool the internet is now, but I'd still have to contest their vote. Kibry Air Ride 100%
I'm glad someone finally said it. That checklist challenges the player to get that "easy to play, tough to master" skill level. And that allows you to unlock a bunch of things: machines, characters and different colors for Kirby.
I feel like kirby air ride has so much potential to be a ridiculously amazing game if they would make a sequel. They just need to make a soul focus on city trial mode. Give us like 5 maps or more to choose from. Hell, just take some of the concepts of the sections of the OG map (flying in and around a city scape, flying in/out and around a volcano, ect.) and expand upon them and you basically already are done. Maybe more mini games.
And if you wanna get real crazy even a story mode. Something involving kirby needing to go to each of the previously stated maps to collect the pieces of some ancient warp star or something. Idk.
Once again - You guys delivered on an incredible and difficult episode. I have a personal bias towards "Kirby Air Ride" and never played "Luigi's Mansion", but I completely understand the justification for both. I think even I would have to vote for "Luigi's Mansion" just for the sense that it feels right on this bracket, where "Kirby Air Ride" feels out of place, and that's even with the hundreds of hours I threw into it, solo and with friends. Such a hard choice, but you guys made great arguments on both sides.
Luigi's Mansion and Warioland both had the satisfaction of hoarding giant sums of money to accomplish a goal. Smacks of progression and/or alternate endings, something new to Mario games.
Forrest said it best... Air Ride has CHARACTERS, but no character
I would have voted Kirby Air Ride, because that game kicks ass. I kind of feel liked his came down to popularity. Also, to answer your question Austin, you go faster when you’re in the air in Kirby Air Ride. Go off a ramp and take flight.
CEFG101 yup AAIIIIR RIDE!!! It s in the TITLE ^^
Killing enemies give you a slight speed boost.
Using an ability like Sword to hit enemies will give you a good boost. Some abilites are nearly useless though like fire, it does very little damage, almost impossible to accurately hit someone directly with it, and no one is ever stupid enough to run into it. Tornado is not fun to use and Wing has very limited use too, the abilites could have used some more development and variety, I forget that they were even a part of the game.
“People really care about MARIO lore.” Ironically, people also really care about Kirby lore, but airride doesn’t add too much too it.
So far, the GameCube Madness season has been really spot-on. The arguments are really good most of the time, and I really appreciate Jeff's ending argument on why he would choose Kirby Air Ride. Let's see if we'll get another Paper Mario curse in the next episode...
These are my favorite videos on TH-cam right now. Dammit I love you guys.
Luigi's mansion wins because it has the 's
Luigi Mansion v Kirby's Air Ride
That hurt
I mean, I guess you aren’t wrong
@@depluggedplus1699 r/woosh
This is actually a really good match up. They both are very unique experiences that you can’t get with any other game, Luigi’s Mansion 2 is very different and much worse in my opinion, the 3ds remake is worse and yet there hasn’t been a sequel to air ride or anything like it since and they both suffer from a lack of content. It’s a really tough match up.
To be real, the lack of a Kirby Air Ride game is most likely because Sakurai has been so busy making smash games and whenever he finally can take a break from smash he made the Kid Icarus game instead. So maybe we get one now soon, but I have my doubts, it's been too long.
To be real, the lack of a Kirby Air Ride game is most likely because Sakurai has been so busy making smash games and whenever he finally can take a break from smash he made the Kid Icarus game instead. So maybe we get one now soon, but I have my doubts, it's been too long.
Ceruliver true smash probably has kept Sakuri tied up for a long time, but Kirby has continued without Sakuri for years now and it just got a new game last year so it’s not like they need him to work on it just cause it’s Kirby related.
Luigi's Mansion 2 is objectively better than the original in pretty much every single aspect; the experience it offers also fits the portable 3ds system perfectly! If the 3ds remake was worse ? That's debatable, but likely true since it didn't bring much to an already pretty short game except worse controls and questionable tweaks (Like seriously why a coop mode? And why the hell is player 2 not a palette swap but a literal green Luigi?).
@@clayjack9969 I feel like some of the games just need Sakurai's hands in it more than others I guess. Most of the Kirby games that has come out has been pretty standard Kirby games, maybe the spin-offs are more of Sakurai's work? :thinking:
I feel like you guys didn't fully explain what made City Trial so great. Jared briefly discussed the Mario Party-esque feel to it, but no one brought up the events, the items, or even the structure of the level. However, I think the biggest thing about City Trial that was glossed over was Free Run mode. As a kid, my brothers and I would run all over the city, finding new places to hide or play around in. We would try and climb buildings like the white castle as Kirby both for the challenge, and to find new places and things that we didn't even know about (like the flowers hidden around the map). For instance, on the rail into the volcano, there's a small room that if you time it right, you can get both Kirby and your air ride machine into it. My brothers and I would use places like this to create our own separate garages and bases, among other things. There's a fairly big sandbox aspect to City Trial that people don't talk about a lot.
Another thing that wasn't really talked about for either game was their soundtracks, which is practically a crime for Kirby games, which are famous for having great music in pretty much every game in the series. Granted, the music in Air Ride is largely made up of music that was brought over from the Japanese version of the anime with little to no differences between them, making it possibly the most unoriginal soundtrack in Kirby history, but the music works so much better in a video game, so it doesn't really bother me. I never played Luigi's Mansion, so I can't comment on its soundtrack, but I'm sure it's good, too.
Also, while I kinda understand what Austin and Shane were saying about the accessibility of the controls in that there's a tendency to hold down a button to go faster, Air Ride has really short tutorial videos for all three modes that quickly describe how to play. Heck, they had footage of one of them in this video, and that video in particular literally tells you the two methods for going faster! I think there's drafting as well, but I can't say for sure. The whole one button play style might be strange at first for some, but so long as you didn't try driving the more difficult stars like the Swerve Star or Slick Star right out of the gate, I feel like Air Ride is very easy to pick up and play.
Lastly, aside from the joke about Luigi's Mansion being a tech demo, no one talked about the graphics or style of either game and how well they aged. While the tracks in Air Ride mode have alternate pathways and enemies, I can see where Austin is coming from in regards to the rather basic nature of the tracks. However, they all have a lot of color and design elements put into them, some more than others, but the design of the maps are really nice to look at and make racing through them more enjoyable!
Hopefully they talk about it more in depth in the losers bracket, and who knows, if Air Ride wins, it'll have another chance at winning it all at the end of this season!
Yes Drafting was a thing in Kirby Air Ride. It was a hidden stat too
One of the best parts of my Luigi’s Mansion experience was that it was the first game to spook me as a little kid. Typically, you’d think that’s bad, right? But since I replayed it a few times and recently when I was in college, I managed to beat it in a single 4.5 hour session, and I loved every minute of it! It’s so fun, cheeky, and packed with fun puzzles and enjoyable scenery! The amount of jokes and memes my friends and I have shared from it is incredible!
Side note: it’s also the game that cemented my fandom of Luigi
I'm at 7:50, watching the video for the first time. As much as I will say that I am most likely 100% biased for Kirby Air Ride (I've barely even played Luigi's Mansion but Air Ride's probably my most played game) but holy shit that "Luigi's Mansion is a good tech demo" moment was savage and hilarious. Just the way ProJared said "Look what the Gamecube can do!" cracks me up.
Update: Okay either ProJared really likes Kirby/Kirby Air Ride or just really dislikes Luigi's Mansion.
I wish someone would’ve mentioned the checklist with all the unlockables in Kirby Air Ride. That was the main reason I’d come back to it cause it added extra challenges kind of like how there’s achievements in modern games. They even use it in the Smash Bros games.
Yeah, the challenge checklist was so deep and innovative that they used it in Smash going forward. Going for those challenges REALLY displays how much depth and challenge there is to the game. I completed it 100% as a teen and it was one of the most challenging gaming experiences of my life. Air Ride is far deeper than people realize.
I'm surprised there was no mention of the checklist in Kirby Air Ride that unlocks a bunch of goodies. It certainly added a lot for me as a child to have a bunch of different goals to work towards and be rewarded for it.
7:11 Look at Shane smiling at Jared. Jared smiles after seeing Shane smiling. Lee sees this whole thing unfold, and he starts smiling too.
Kirby Air Ride had more to it. Completing the mission checklists felt rewarding and you win cool stuff. Luigi's Mansion doesn't give you much for beating it 100%.
Luigi's Mansion and Kirby Air Ride are my top two GameCube games, so this was really interesting to watch! I've probably spent hundreds of hours playing City Trial, and I played through Luigi's Mansion four times growing up (And I'm currently playing through it again on 3DS!).
I was worried that Kirby Air Ride wasn't going to even have a chance here, but thankfully everyone seemed to understand what makes it so great. Their points are all valid, too. PBG is right about how the game is lacking in content, and while that doesn't hamper my enjoyment of it, it's definitely a valid complaint and the main reason I and other fans want a sequel *so* bad. I already find City Trial infinitely playable, so having a new City Trial with more cities, events, and stadiums would easily become one of the greatest multiplayer games of all time.
Wish it would have moved on (And I'll just say, if everyone in the debate were to sit down and spend a few hours playing City Trial together, I think their opinions would probably change), but Luigi's Mansion is also a really great game, so I really can't get upset.
And no, saying "main" racing mode is lame is definitely not a controversial opinion. If you want to race, go with Double Dash or F-Zero, but if you just want a fun multiplayer game regardless of genre, City Trial is the best imho.
I couldn't agree more with everything you said!
Spent countless hours playing City Trial in Kirby Air Ride. So many fond memories of playing it with my younger sister. Probably played it just as much as Smash Melee.
Oh good, I’m so glad that we made it through the video with another “technical difficulty.” I was worried there for a second. Heh heh.
Now this is a hard matchup. Both of these games are so great. Luigi's Mansion is so unique among Mario games and I love how it does something so different. Kirby Air Ride is just so much fun for City Trial alone.
Will say though...there are different ways to play Luigi's Mansion. The game does have a new game plus that wasn't mentioned where you can play through it again in the "Hidden Mansion", where you can suck ghosts up faster, but they vanish faster (requiring faster reflexes) and you take double damage and drop double coins when hurt. There's even a "Poverty Run", which is what I'm calling it, where you try and get the lowest ranking in the game. It's very hard actually. The strategy guide mentioned that the lowest rank is almost harder than the highest, and there's no way for you to be so bad at the game that you legit get this rank. You have to intentionally do it, so I think it counts as an alternate playthrough. There's even different frames for the ghosts you capture, encouraging you to go through it again and get ghosts' big pearls and survive bosses with as much health as possible. This game actually has a lot of replayability to it if you ask me.
Oh and PBG said that he didn't have enough friends who liked Kirby to play Air Ride, but I didn't have that problem. I had a bunch of friends who liked it and we'd play it together and it was incredibly fun. Try it out that way and it is crazy fun.
Really good closing argument from Jeff. He would be a good critic.
He.... kinda is, right?
Loving the debates and strong opinions in this season
A game where the main character uses a vacuum versus a game where the main character IS a vacuum.
Also, Luigi's Mansion had Luigi hump random objects and proclaim "Oh yeah!"
Jared has become the new Jirard this season
Weird matchup, but this episode's debate was by far the most fair and less biased so far.
Luigis mansion all the way! Luigis Mansion is one of my favorite games of all time! The music is perfect! The atmosphere is perfect! The controls are perfect! Everything in that game is done so darn well!
“When there’s something strange in the neighborhood. Who you gonna call?”
Luigi: “Mario?”
Who did that mashup? I’ll look it up...
I think the single most important point that was missed in terms of Kirby wasn;t even just the existence of the achievement system, but the fact that said system (as well as some of the core of city trial later) would go on to be used in the achievement system of other core nintendo games, Smash Bros most importantly. Luigi's Mansion had a huge impact on the characterization of luigi and arguably even of Mario himself, but AirRide had a MECHANICAL impact of later games in the nintendo library, especially those crafted by Sakurai.
You should add a poll in the comments so that we can participate and see what your general audience thinks as well
“For as simple as Kirby is, I feel like Luigi’s mansion doesn’t have enough depth to get my interest”
“It’s like a pool that goes up to your ankles vs a pool that goes up to your nuts”
Well that’s a terrible argument. Why would the ankle pool be better?
“You could just be bad!” I actually agree with you on something this episode, Jared
Luigi Mansion has a special place in my heart, it was my first GameCube game I ever had and it was before I got a memory card or a GameCube (had a Wii), fond memories
I'm with Jared on this one. Kirby Air Ride is awesome. Luigi's Mansion is great, but once you've done everything... that's it. Kirby Air Ride might lack variety in its modes (Air Ride Mode and Top Ride Mode can get repetitive fast. Both are good in their own right, but the game feels like they were never the intended focus), the one mode that everyone plays it for - City Trial - is PACKED with content. It may be 1 level over and over, but that one level has a dozen of random events that can happen and change the way the game plays out, and the 8 stadium events are different enough that you never know who will actually win till it is over. The game is BUILT to be replayed. Luigi's Mansion feels like a 1 time thing - despite it being a game many people replay a lot. It doesn't feel DESIGNED for it, people just do so because they want to.
The only sore spot is that the other modes are only good, not amazing like City Trial. As I already said, they feel like they weren't the intended MAIN mode, and I think the game suffers a bit because of that.
I’ve beaten Luigi’s mansion 12 times over the course of the past 8 years I’d still go back during October just to play it Kirby’s air ride not so much but granted it is a great game with some good visuals and technical controls
On the topic of the lore because people can't read dialogue boxes, these ghosts were collected over the course of E. Gadd's live and were freed by King Boo, who then created the mansion out of thin air as a trap for Mario. As for the baby however, that one was born a ghost to avoid the implications of infant death.
I think more time should have been devoted to city trial in Kirby air ride. Nobody played it for air ride or top down mode, City trial was the essence of Kirby air ride. Finding the dragoon pieces or discovering new areas on the map, flying through the rings in the sky, or busting the star pole. Not to mention the achievements for city trial give it incredible replayability.
Also, love seeing Jared back in the mix for this season, he adds so much wit and banter
13:14
Oof, PBG roasting Jared pretty dang hard after he acts like a child!
WHAT!? Come on Lee... I'm with Jared on this one, I played through Luigi's Mansion once and never felt the need to replay it again, but that may be because I had 2 other brothers I had to share the Gamecube with, so multiplayer games were sort of the go-to for our house.
I love how the last few series had a much more confrontational, boardroom approach with edgy synth music and attitude regarding objective rankings. This one is 5 dudes listening to lofi24/7 hiphop beats in a crumbling room giving no fucks. Love it.
Fun episode! But holy crap what was that music/sound effect that starts at 11:52. I was searching my room for a weird static noise for a good while.
Was routing for Luigi's Mansion, but Jeff's ending comment sold me on Kirby.
If you ask me, the inspiration for Luigi's Mansion was probably, and I know I'm going out on a limb here, Ghostbusters.
...speaking of which, if you want to see another game in the same vein as Luigi's Mansion, play Ghostbusters: The Video Game from 2010. It's basically the Ghostbusters 3 we never got, and IIRC while you can't buy it on Steam (dystopian shenanigans abound), you can download it off of Amazon for like £10. I really need to get around to playing it, since I've heard a lot of good stuff about it.
This video felt so weirdly anti-climactic. xD Like we get all those big speeches and then Lee's like "Well uh... yeah Luigi."
And the episode basically ends lmao
This was a good one guys, I'm glad Luigi's mansion won! Too bad it probably won't make it to finals though haha
It actually really bugs me how nobody talks about the items(copy abilities) in Kirby Air Ride and how bad they are. In Mario Kart, you can always catch up with the right item use. But if you fall behind in Air Ride... tell me what the heck you're supposed to do? And while we're on the topic, there are too many useless machines. Bulk Star and Slick Star are just awful.
This is why City Trial carries the game so hard, because there is a use for more things. But honestly, that isn't enough to save the game from its flawed design.
Jeff’s face on the thumbnail though 🤣🤣🤣
Yeah, both of these games really experimented and found something new, and they both also lack content to back that up very well. I feel like City Trial in Kirby Air Ride should end much differently, and also have multiple maps, like 3-5. Luigi's mansion has fairly boring ghosts to fight, even if they are interestingly designed.
Both of these games, I think, are very fun to play and control. I love how simple yet rewarding Kirby Air Ride's maneuvering is, and how great it feels to suck up ghosts in Luigi's Mansion. They got the basics right for both of these games, I think. The problem comes at the content. Air Ride basically tries to push achievements as content, and Luigi's Mansion, again, not too interesting fights, a pretty linear mansion, and a short playtime.
Personally my vote was on Air RIde for giving you the freedom to just play with the mechanics, whereas Luigi's Mansion's design was linear, and therefore didn't let you play around with the game much, although that wouldn't have really worked out for that gameplay style anyways. Still, completely fine with either one being said to be better than the other, it's far too close.
I see the slime in the background and I ask myself
"When will they talk about Dragonquest?"
As to how the mansion happened, Van Gore painted all the ghosts to life and King Boo creates the mansion to house them so he could trap the Mario Brothers
You did good, Lee.
Now Shane, carry our precious paper boy to victory. Don't let Austin sweet talk anyone with his filthy animals.
Oof the next round is going to be hard both the games are great and have amazing features. Animal crossing has the day to day relaxing game with the bonus of free (which had never been done since) nes games. And Paper Mario thousand old Year door is considered the best in its franchise by many (my self included). Paper Mario thousand Year old door expanded on what made the first one great and adding in the ability to continue with it after you beat the game. Animal crossing has the fun little events and the ability to pick up after a longtime and now how to play. While paper Mario has the lucky lottery which has been proven to be a scam. I can not wait to see what points they bring up.
I'll be honest. I love AC to bits. AC is one of my favourite game franchises. I'm not that much into Mario and haven't touched the RPG side of it much.
If Paper Mario doesn't win I'm going to be disappointed in all of them.
Oof, woulda defended Kirby tooth and nail for this one. Luigi’s Mansion is great but if we’re talkin replayability,, Air Ride was the first Sakurai game to have that big checkerboard of achievements that we see in pretty much every smash game after the GameCube. I spent /days/ of my childhood knocking out those blocks and trying to unlock Meta Knight and Dedede in City Trial mode.
As someone who’s first console was the GameCube and grew up with both titles, I really don’t have any attachment to Kirby air ride nowadays. It was fun back in the day but it never had that lasting impact that Luigi’s mansion did.
guys just want to say thank you for making the show awesome again. Great objective meaningful conversation about games we love. Thank you.
I have so many great memories from playing city trial, top down mode and the mode where you could run around the city forever. I'm awful at Luigi mansion so I hope Kirby wins
I'm a bit upset you're all talking about the "Character" of the game and the "Atmosphere" in this match-up, things which makes Metroid Prime great, but never brought it up in the last match-up save for the comments about the rain on the visor. Not to mention the consideration of the "weight" of certain elements in each game, such as the shooter aspect of Prime vs RE4. Prime isn't strictly a shooter, but RE4 is, so it would seem obvious that the shooting isn't as important in Prime. Yet it seemed like Prime was judged as "bad at being RE4" instead of being judged on it's own merits.
Future seasons ought to have a bit more structure and purpose, like a set of guidelines or a rubric for discussion. The problem I keep seeing in this series is the lack of agreement on what makes a game objectively good. Directly comparing disparate games against each other is literally an oxymoron. Some consideration should to be brought to the concept of execution, or how a game accomplishes its own vision. The perceived enjoyment of the initial vision itself is highly subjective, leading to bias (intentional or not). This problem is partly solved by the existence of Genres. Considering each game through the lens of a genre might help reduce some of the subjectivity from these discussions.
Do they not realize that king boo is originally from Luigi's mansion?
Where was discussion of the game's character in season 1's MM vs Oot or Oot vs Super Mario 64
How did you talk about Kirby Air Ride for this long without once brining up the challenges? That's one of the best parts of the game!