When a Car Manufacturer tries to make a Motorcycle
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 พ.ย. 2024
- The Dodge Tomahawk was unveiled in 2003 to both acclaim and criticism. This V10 Viper engine 4 wheeled motorcycle monstrosity was striking but was it a legitimate motorcycle?
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They didn't try to make a motorcycle. They just wanted to see how fast a V10 goes without the rest of the car.
Yeah that’s about the size of it right there. Not too many people know about the unmanned tests. They were all destroyed but imagine if they had back then the kind of autonomous control tech we have now. They could have put down some serious numbers and brought one back down from high speed to a stop.
That tech you're talking about is still trash. Ever seen one of those "robots" in a Walmart? Yeah those are actually being piloted remotely.
About the only place there's been any success is in warehouses with minimal human presence and it takes insane amounts of specialized programming to make those devices work inside their specific environments only. Like you have to do it again for another warehouse.
@@artosbearHe's not talking about that tech, but the throttle control tech. It's better than any human can possibly be.
@@artosbear i have never seen a walmart robot in my entire life tf you talking about
TRUE. If you want to see a car manufacturer make a solid motorcycle, then look no fursther than BMW. Their bikes are objectively better than their cars by a country mile.
"They think it'll go like 380, but they can't find anybody willing to test the top speed." - Every self-proclaimed car guy at my high school ca. 2004
The car guy at my high school who said that (and who's dad owned a viper) eventually failed out of engineering school
I had (2) Years of High School Auto Service; Graduated 2003, then received my A.A.S Automotive Degree in May 2005, and Shipped-Out to the NAVY by October 2006. It was the harbinger to the 2008 Financial Crisis, and none of the Dealerships were hiring, even (3) Years prior. Anywho, I got to see the Tomahawk out in Santa Clara, along with the 300C Bentleys. lmfao Even the V-10 Dodge Ram was more practical, but the Tomahawk just got your imagination going. Thank you for listening to my 'HawkTALK.
Ah yeah, I remember that excuse. Like, have they never been to earth? There are so many daring idiots here. Did dodge even try going "noooo baaaalllls"
Very optimistic thinking when no one has not even reach the 100.
That was then followed by “I would do it no problem, they’re just scared” of course
Never has there been a real functioning motorcycle that looked more like the elite hit man's bike in a dystopian cyberpunk movie
It's a damn shame. I would love the bike from Advent Children.
reminds me of the bat bike
It looks like the bikes in Akira and the N64 game G-Extreme too. I wonder if they were inspired.
@barahng I forgot all about that game. I never played it. Apperantly, there was a sequel from 2003.
I think those bikes aren't made because they would annihilate the status quo, but since the military hasn't used them, perhaps it's due to a lack of imagination.
These bikes would need no roads and leave 200 mph in the dust.
How to drain a fuel tank in the shortest possible time.
Dodge: we can do it
12.7 liter of fuel capacity. that kind of tank equivalent to a 150cc motorcycle tank.
We need a gallon bike
Dodge put Yamaha's V-Max to shame in that department.
lmfao
bugatti chiron reached almost 500km/h(>300mph), it drained it's 100L fuel tank in just 10 minutes at such speed, this bike would not even reach such speed as the tank will run dry quickly before even reaching that 400mph(640km/h) claimed speed
I sat on this bike during the 2005 New York Auto show.
It was the most beautiful thing I had ever seen. And it had massive crowd and wait just to see it up close.
In person, this thing is absolutely massive.
The cramped bars and the way your heels are just about on your rear tires, this thing looks like a nightmare to ride lol
I think it's pretty silly for journalists to criticize the tomahawk for being unrideable and impractical when making it largely functional in the first place already makes it more usable than a good chunk of concept vehicles.
It's a V10 motorcycle showpiece,
A "ridable automotive sculpture" and its just that, lol.
No less practical than almost any Orange County Chopper.
people just like to hate on american manufacturers, sometimes justifiable
In this video at least they applaud it for being functional and daring, it was Dodge's own claims about the performance that, you know what just watch the video.
@@georgerosebush9754 Yet Allen Millyard, an engineer and hobbyist, was able to make a rideable motorcycle that has a V10 Viper engine on it, and even did an actual top speed run on it instead of claiming estimates.
A private individual made a better Viper motorcycle than Dodge, in his garage 🤷
@@sepg5084 making a handcrafted specimen is easier than a (theoretically) mass produced standardized product when it comes to exotic machinery. Doesn't make it less impressive, just different.
This (and of course the Viper that donated an engine) was the reward for Chrysler completing all their assignments and turning in their homework early with the K-cars. The government gave them an extra study hall. This is what they did with their time
I could actually see the Tomohawk work though, if they redesigned it with a streamliner aesthetic instead (a Gru bike if you will), and turned it into a sort of Ryker/Niken hybrid with two big cruiser wheels at the back (and the wheels actually wide enough apart with good enough steering angle to actually be viable in traffic).
Something like this definitely has a place in the exotic super-cruiser market. It just needs to pass emissions first................. maybe a smaller engine would be required but a super high revving low (for a car) displacement V10 would sound amazing ngl.
The best part of the viper is they got a V10 to skirt the government agreement that Chrysler would stop putting v8s in cars
Should've made a better v8 instead. That camshaft not being oiled properly is the bane of my existence right now 😅
"Dodgy math?" Chrys help me.
☠️☠️
I see what you did there.fair play sir😂😂😂
😂😂😂...booo.
I don't think that's technically a pun but I loved it anyway
Let me know if some day you want to sit down and hear how it happened, see studio images used in the design process, see photos of the fabrication process, hear how the last part had to be designed such that it could be made without being sent out for CNC milling because we had used up the entire shoestring budget and no more money was incoming, learn why you never see the rear wheels scissoring independently (they do this when leaning but the suspension was intentionally blocked by inserting a steel pipe through the hollow rear axle. This was done out of fear that a rider might not be able to keep it upright if suspension were allowed to articulate freely... For anyone who rode bikes regularly, this made the thing extremely difficult to ride; it could not be counter-steered like a bike until you got the thing up on one rear wheel; otherwise it had to be steered like a trike which is extremely hard to do if you're used to riding motorcycles), learn about the "testing program" (in quotes because there was no time to test at all; Kirt just got on and rode it; he was first, then Bud, his 70-something year old dad got on! Bud Bennett can be seen riding it in a few videos. I rode it up to maybe 40 mph for one video along side a test track... All I had to do was go in a straight line but I almost went onto the grass due to my brain not wanting to steer like a trike. And I would have gone onto the grass had I not yanked it up onto one rear wheel so I could steer normally), etc.
I don't know if my name will be visible once this is posted; I'm the design guy, Mark Walters. I also did 100% of the CAD modeling, including the insides of the transmission + some other odd jobs, like trying to make sure RM got paid on time and keeping their shop cat company after hours.
It's good that you credited RM's Kirt Bennett; this almost never happens. Without his talents, there ain't no way this project would have been possible. I've never worked with a more able engineer (as far as I know, he had no formal training and is entirely self-taught). He pulled it off on a shoestring budget and in an unbelievably short window of time. Keeping pace necessitated that I pack up and move in full time with the RM crew in Wixom. CAD data was handed, hot off my computer, directly to Future Tool for milling while I got going on the next part. Kirt drew up the 2-speed transmission on a note pad using a ballpoint pen and handed it to me with catalog full of bearings, telling me which to use and to allow 50 thou interference for every inch of outside diameter.
Amazingly, Chrysler agreed to this arrangement; i.e. letting me off the hook for 5 months; they'd check in every now and then but mostly they just let us get on with it. I can't imagine another automaker doing that. Hands down, best place I ever worked. RM also demonstrated real trust by allowing me to work alone through the night; they gave me the keys to the front door and told me not to forget to lock it when done. The building housed a really fantastic multi-million dollar inventory of vintage race cars; we're talkin' seriously cool stuff... Porsche and Nissan GTP stuff; El-Ow-El-Ay T-70s and the like. I could compare how different manufacturers handled the same parts; suspension or brake mounting or whatever. Some of this found its way onto the bike.
Freeman Thomas: Freeman's role in this project needs explanation and elaboration. He was a MAJOR part of it and a catalyst for some very interesting, midnight-oil-burning times at Chrysler. Oh yes, there are stories.
@El_Peto Hey, I unintentionally replied to my own (duh!) post but I was replying to you.
How has the creator of this video not seen this comment?! Thanks for sharing! Chrysler took a lot of risks designing so many radical concepts. I always wished the ME-Four Twelve could have made it into production, but there's so many more. I always rant about how consumers weren't there to buy the Viper in big enough numbers, even when it was heavily discounted. The later generations were genuine 600hp, 200mph v10 manual supercars - something that doesn't exist anymore today - for muscle car money. I also am grateful that Chrysler redesigned Marcello Gandini's original Lamborghini Diablo design (which became the Cizeta V16T) into the Diablo we have now. The Diablo SV is my favourite car of all time, mainly because I regard it as being the most beautiful, the most unique and iconic car ever made.
Nowadays though I've completely lost interest in the car industry. Consumers were not there when it counted to buy the bespoke sports cars in high enough volume (S2000, NSX, 3000GT, RX7, Supra, Viper, etc). Now we're stuck with generic SUV's, hot hatches that are increasingly bloated to the point they are practically a small SUV, the Ute/Pickup apocalypse and the latest menace: 3 tonne, electric powered, amorphous blob, ground pounders... Oh and a second hand market full of dreamers trying to sell a Silvia for $80k...
@El_Peto Then you must have sat on the one built for the show (now in the permanent collection of the Petersen Automotive Museum). That engine was started, revved and shut down many many times. This is because of the incredible sound it made which was very different from the sound when used in the Viper car. This is due to the unequal length runners of the exhaust manifold (a long time ago, before designers knew better, this was common practice). It is not optimal for performance but it was the only way to keep things narrow enough to fit between a rider’s knees. The result was a staggered/uneven pulse which crackled because there are no mufflers at all, just a pair of 4-5 ft long rectangular section stainless pipes, fabricated with continually increasing sectional area, getting larger toward the exit which had the shape of 2 large vertical slots between the wheels. The idea was to mimic a classic megaphone exhaust which promotes flow and thus maybe get back some of the theoretical power loss caused by unequal length runners. What it may have given up in power it more than made up for in sound.
The battery sits on its side, tucked into a pocket milled out of the tail. Accessing it required splitting the halves of the tail which was time consuming, therefore, an Optima Yellow Top was used (the best battery available).
The alternator was from a Porsche 930 Turbo (tucked down into the V of the engine, behind the hooded cooling fan above the front wheels). Despite the ridiculous number of starts for onlookers (typically with lights powered on), I don’t recall ever seeing the battery connected to a charger.
Yes, the Tomahawk was briefly offered for sale via special order through Neiman Markus as a running but non ride-able “sculpture” (the two huge drive chains were not included but you could go to any forklift repair shop and buy them). It was photographed and I believe actually did make it into the NM catalog but Chrysler Legal pulled the plug before any were ordered. That did not stop at least one really determined collector… The last time I talked to Kirt (maybe 15 years ago), he was building one which I think he said was destined for Russia.
@@PROcrastiDRIVESVofficial I don’t know if the creator of this video has seen my comments. The info I’m able to offer might justify redoing parts of it (correcting inaccuracies) but the creator might not want, or have time to take that on right now.
BTW, the CAD model used is not my work; it's a rough, 3rd party approximation (I’m being polite).
With regard to new automotive offerings, I could not agree more. Somebody needs to do something! The problem is, doing something significant requires “cultural horsepower”; i.e. a depth of understanding that cannot and is not taught by any design school. It is the product of internal passion that emerges at a young age. The environment that kids endure today does not foster, promote or facilitate the focused pursuit of any one passion. Engineering is similarly affected.
Love it or hate it, the Tesla Cybertruck is probably the one standout design that comes to mind in the past what… How many years? Thematically, it picks up the ball where the 1980 Citroën Karin concept car left off.
You mention the Chrysler ME-Four Twelve; this is the only interior I’ve designed (the exterior was designed by Brian Neilander). Of all my proposals for the project, upper management selected the most classical and conventional. I would call the results “tasteful but predictable”. Because it was nothing new (and I’m talking ONLY about the interior), good photos of it are extremely hard to find. There’s a decent shot in the Feb 10, 2022 DrivingLine article.
You should start a series of videos on everybody any part on this bikes development the stories you probably have
It's got that steampunk/cyberpunk hybrid aesthetic that's present in Final Fantasy 7.
guy who only played Final Fantasy 7: "It's got that steampunk/cyberpunk hybrid aesthetic that's present in Final Fantasy 7🤓"
@@humanharddrive1 Imagine parroting someone else's comment and not having a unique one of their own. Couldn't be me.
@@commandervile394 Clearly, you don't know what parrotting means
Mitsubishi would definitely make a motorcycle that starts burning a quart of oil per day when it's 3 years old.
It doesn't burn it it sweats ot out every fiber of its soul
If my Evo is anything to go by, that's true.
Something tells me you don't know anything about engines.
@@Key-z2x You don't have to know a lot to know that certain Mitsubishi engines have a problem with oil consumption. Something tells me that you're just talking crap.
@@jamesdagmond which engine are you talking about in particular?
If you're going to name an old ahh engine, I hope you're aware that all engines contain a lil something called "Valve stem seals" Over time, due to lack of use, these seals become hard like plastic and dont seal up anymore, allowing oil to seep into the combustion chamber and be burnt then released by the exhaust pipe.
This phenomenon is most noticeable with older lower mileage engines, In other words ( engines that may have been used a good bit in like the 90s/ early 2000s and then sat for years on someone's garage... Then people go out there and be like " look at this piece of crap! 100k miles and the car makes me seem like part of the fumigation and pest control team". Just change your god damn valve seals.
In the rare case that your oil consumption is caused by your oil control rings, just take out your engine, take it to a machine shop, have them look at it, if they say you need to overbore it do it then slap new rings on it and out you go.
However, based on how you word yourself I doubt you have the skills to tear down an engine, you make it seem like "Oh this engine was designed to burn a gallon of oil per day and there's nothing I can do to stop it"
I hope you one day understand that all engines are fundamentally working on the same principle and therefore are very similar in construction.
I'm mostly speaking for the older mitsubishi engines 80s- early 2000s-maybe 2010ish. Since then I've lost interest in the automotive division of mitsubishi and havent been keeping up with their newer engines tbh.
Dodge Tomahawk: The most expensive holder for your Viper engine.
Would've made the boss hoss look like a bitch hick.
The most expensive pile of pointless garbage that literally cannot turn corners. Oh sorry thats Harley Davidson
@@voxac30withstrat I'd imagine those who bought it are happy, it's an art piece. One of the coolest motorcycles ever made and extremely rare and unique.
@@MrSirFluffy coolest motorcycles ever made nope Y2K bike
@@johnrhodes101875 Sorry, but I've seen a million crotch rockets and they all look the same to me. Boring.
This bike looks incredible and is an awesome piece of art.
Impractical is okay in the world of cars, we have entire shows dedicated to impractical vehicles in many aspects.
The massive "Amazonas 1600" motorcycle was powered by the Volkswagen Beetle engine.
And still had the Bettle gearbox
Reverse gear included
nobody tell honda lol
As a longtime motorcycle enthusiast, I’m ashamed I’m not familiar with this.
followed up by the Kahena!
It was one of my favourite hot wheels - and it seemed so alien, even like an H.R Geiger artwork, that it encapsulated me.
big same
Allen Millyard in the UK did make a viper motor motorcycle. And went 207.4 mph. From his tiny garage and basic hand tools.
Allen is an inspiration. Reminds me a bit of Burt Monroe. But better equipped, and broader focus.
He also drove his Viper at, I think, 186 mph with one of his (crazy) pals as a pillion passenger!
So.. you didn't watch the video? Nice
@@JelloThatsMellow I'd say they got halfway through.....
@@JelloThatsMellow yes I did. Just not impressed with the tomahawk bike.
this thing is so cool looking.
I mean, its absurd, in every sense of the word, but that just kinda gives it charm.
0:26 thats a Detroit Diesel semi truck engine.
I can't believe that I forgot about this wonderful piece of engineering. Dodge still builds factory "Hotrods" today😊 The Tomahawk got my motorcycle friends talking back in the day. After that, two guys bought Dodge Durangos for their growing families.
Holy overblown design Batman! Looks like something from Hollywood.
That was the intent... a Show Bike for the Detroit Auto Show. I know the guy who fabricated this bike for Chrysler .. he is the one seen riding it in videos, .. believe me, it was really NOT intended to be ridden, much less go over the speed limit.
And then Allen Millyard said: hold my beer. And built one in his garage and actually rides it.
Yeah that is pretty impressive.
its got 2 wheels and looks relatively normal too, not some weird monstrosity concept car thing
@@mr.k7457 Don't get me wrong, I think that Tomahawk is a stunning looking machine. I've loved it since the day I first saw it. But the whole exercise was a bit pointless
@@bikergamersoldierspy533 ill just say I thought it looked a lot cooler in the early 2000s
@@bikergamersoldierspy533 The Tomahawk was only pointless if you are looking for a fully functional rideable, saleable machine. That's not what the Tomahawk was about. It was about making a huge marketing splash at an auto show, and at that it was a huge success. Looking at the actual sale numbers, it was strictly for hyper-wealthy collectors who would promptly put it in a temperature+humidity controlled garage/museum, and it would only rarely see the light of day.
If other car manufacturers make bikes it would go like this:
-$500k Ferarri sportbike, made in collaboration with Ducati.
-$40k Jeep ADV thats overpriced as hell because 2 wheel wrangler.
-Random unkillable toyota hybrid naked or "sport touring" bike that will have a low msrp but cost at least $10k more after dealer mark ups.
-Ford F-050 2 wheeled cruiser with a truck bed.
-$30k tesla cyber-bike thats sold as an add-on to be fit in the back of your cyber truck rather then be its own thing.
-Random flat/boxer 4 subaru that just litterally uses one of their smaller car engines.
-Oil burning kia/hyundai compleate with engine fires, but dont worry, it has a 10 year warentee they will try as hard as they can to not honor.
Accurate lol
The F-050 with the bed actually sounds interesting
The F-050 just made me laugh from the name alone, lol
Ducati is now a Volkswagen subsidiary and already has made a Lamborghini motorcycle since
Honda is a car manufacturer and makes bikes
"Dodgy math"
Peak comedy
The design of this thing is so fucking iconic. Whether it was functional/practical is irrelevant. These guys had a vision and they made it a reality. The story behind it alone makes it awesome.
Toyota, Nissan, or Mazda. All of them have inline six motors they could build a bike around longitudinally with a shaft drive. Making a perfectly balanced bike that could roast any other, at least in a straight line. Besides that, Volvo making the 'safest' motorcycle would be a sight. Ford could build a trike with a truck bed and probably sell a few. Subaru could definitely make an adventure bike and sell some. Really though I kinda find it hard to believe that Tesla isn't already selling a bike, just wrap a frame around a power wall and a beefy hub motor and money.
Volvo would probably do an iteration on the old quasars.
Possibly with an inline-5.
BMW currently builds i6 bikes. They have a history of building longitudinal inliners (K100-K1200) and yet they decided to put their sixers in the other way - still with a shaft drive. So i guess when a company with 100 years of motorcycle experience builds them that way, there are good reasons to do it. I also guess the thing would just get long as fuck (technical term) and with that extremely hard to handle at lower speeds and in tight environments. That being said, those engines are a dream! They aren't build for peak performance - rather to the maximum elasticity, which gives you a power band that feels like from an electric motor: silky smooth torque at whichever RPM.
@@NoOne-ef7yu Putting Volvo and Motorcycle in the same sentence. Wash your mouth out.
@@therwfer a good reason for a company and a good reason for the end user are often two completely different things, as shown by this very video. That said, making bikes wider then small cars is what BMW is known for and maybe they do have a good reason for it. I'm obviously being an arse though.
@@davidrochow9382 oh come on, you know it would be so ugly it would actually look good, like a KTM.
I received a press release package from Dodge including a CD of images from the show and a Huge two sided poster of the bike. It still hangs framed on my wall today.
What a machine!
I vividly remember being 5 years old and getting lifted onto this crazy motorcycle with 4 skinny wheels at the Detroit auto show and it’s amazing to learn the story behind this crazy memory I have! Thanks for the video
Brilliant! I was fascinated by this "bike" when it first surfaced. I had completely forgotten about it. Cannot wait to watch this!!
This is an interesting idea. Put a slightly smaller block in it, extend the front, made the front wheel an automotive tire and use a wide, bigbore tire in back, and you've got something like a Trackmule from Gears 4 or Cloud's bike from FFVII.
Allen millyard saw a engine in half with a hand saw and it was straight, just shows how great he is.
I saw this in a magazine, one 1/4 page photo and two lines of text is all that was needed.....sometimes creating Questions in the minds of the public can give you unlimited free advertising.
Kinda get the vibe that some people didn't watch the whole video, like from start to finish, before making comments..
The video is 18 mins
Considering this generation that considers tiktok videos above 10 seconds long, I'm surprised they even clicked on this video.
They just saw the thumbnail, placed a comment and left.
This cycle is an astounding example of engineering that like the exotic collector guitars, beautiful rare materials and over-the-top accountrements but not really suitable for it's ostensible purpose. I own a real nice guitar that I don't play so it stays real nice. I'm nuts.
i love he tomahawk ever since i was a kid and got a hotwheels of one
6:27 That blazer with those shorts are a wild combo.
At 13:28
Drag increases with the square of the speed.
The drag is the kinetic energy of the air passing by. E = 1/2 * m * v2
It is calculated from the frontal area and the drag coefficient that is lower for a more streamlined design.
With a motorcycle, you also have to account for the shape of the rider.
The rider contributes to the frontal area and drag coefficient.
The difference between 300 mph and 400 mph = 9:16. You get nearly twice the drag
And because you are traveling a greater distance you need (16/9)^3 = 5.6 times as much power.
I saw the Tomahawk at the National Automotive and Truck Museum in Auburn, Indiana. It is certainly a wild design.
Aston Martin have, in recent years, produced a limited number of motorbikes in conjunction with the modern iteration of Brough Superior
Unfortunately, it's an overpriced and non practical bike.
I have the hot wheels of this cycle, it's a lil' banged up from childhood...but it still looks good on the shelf.
I actually know someone who rode one of the prototypes. He said it was terrifying on every level.
Cool story bro 😂
@@GreenCanvasInteriorscape there used to be a video of the event. They had people who rode professionally and several people who were journalists and the like. He worked for a magazine.
But those test bikes everyone that rode that day said about the same thing. One of the superbike guys told him that it wasn’t stable and to keep his speed below 100. He said it was hard. The bike would idle at around 60-70 in the top gear. Just no throttle and it’s sitting at 60-70. The brakes had a hard time holding it still when just sitting and the reps and pro riders recommended taking it out of gear when not intending to ride.
One of these live in my area and is often sighted on sunny days. The most impressive thing to me is the sound; you can hear the actual engine working in addition to the exhaust. truly an amazing vehicle
"It's the same basic concept...this is just a lot cooler."
-Bart, 2024
I remember seeing this at the auto show when i was a kid and just being blown away at the look of the thing, of course as a kid i didnt really understand practicality and stuff like that but i remember thinking it just looked really cool
As opposed to when a musical instrument manufacturer tried to make a motorcycle, which actually turned out rather well.
I remember back then, the hubbub about the Viper, was that it was a truck engine in a car. That, and they made a television series around it.
The idea of a truck engine then being used on a motorbike was amazing for conversation, and even the purists were looking at it with a certain level of respect for something that was so insane that they wish they thought of it first.
Drag does not increase exponentially with speed. It increases quadratically with speed. A quadratic relationship is much more slowly increasing than an exponential one.
One of my favorite motorcycle stories. Really wish they had kept making one every few years just to see what they could do
I was just watching your backlog this morning! Great time for a new video
I was in love with this design from the day it came out. I'd be interested to try and ride one but I couldn't imagine owning it personally. Dodge has done some super cool stuff and this is in the top ten for sure.
Suzuki and Honda have done a really good job over the years...Honda is the premier offerings imo. Sure BMW is out there, but those are very expensive overall. Bugotti has a limited version out there Ind they also have a bicycle I think, off the chain expensive.
Peugeot and SEAT does scoters
Honda makes the most vanilla motorcycles.
Honda is the best out there
the only one to win in both F1 and MotoGP
@@DroneStrike1776 Rune.
I remember seeing this at the car show as a kid. That was a moment I will never forget.
I did interact with Dieter Zetche (CEO at the time) and it was during the initial stages of the Tomahawk project. The story goes like this:
For a weekly design review, I had set up a presentation consisting of two large (22 ft long) panels; one with sketches + renderings (images) generated from my early CAD model, the other with my attempts to justify the project (why it made sense for Chrysler to do this). In font of this 2D work was a makeshift full-size mockup to demonstrate overall size and to answer the question “Could a human/rider even sit on such a thing?” The 2D part of the presentation was kind of flashy; the mockup was totally utilitarian.
The mockup was built from a borrowed Viper engine (Dave Chyz kind of snuck one to us from down in the lab where they did crash testing) + a pair of Viper tires (wide enough to simulate the twin wheel design of the Tomahawk proposal) + a makeshift seat fabricated from steel tube and ¼” plate that hung directly off the bellhousing A a pile of shop rags was taped on to serve as a cushion. I kid you not; I have the photos.
Almost nobody took the presentation seriously. In fact, up to this point, the only real proponent of the project was Freeman Thomas (brought in from Audi to be head of Design; ended up becoming head of Advanced; whole ‘nother story there…). Frankly, even I was lukewarm. And, I had pretty much immediately alienated the two guys who originally had the idea to use a Viper engine in a bike. These guys were fans of the classic Harley Davidson “custom” look (and lifestyle) and would have liked to see me propose something more along those lines (see the Boss Hoss). I however like classic (OK, old) Italian sport bikes and I rode and still do ride an early Moto Guzzi 1100 Sport that I reworked for better performance (the EPA-compliant version runs like a turd). Take a look at the +/- 1955 Guzzi 500 CC quad-cam V8 race bike WITHOUT the “dust bin” fairing. Find the right photo; this was my inspiration for the Tomahawk.
The presentation was still in place a week or two later when Dieter and Wolfgang Bernhard (COO at the time) were in town for a visit. One of two acting Design heads at the time, Trevor Creed would be receiving them and would of course give them a tour of the studios.
Like everyone other than Freeman, Trevor was not an early supporter of the project BUT, for whatever reason (probably because it was a pretty display), Trevor did decide to walk the German visitors past the presentation. Unwritten Chrysler tradition dictates that the designer pretty much without exception presents his/her own work. In this case, there was a real risk that the audience might bust out laughing but they did not. It turns out that, as a kid, Wolfgang rode dirt bikes and Dieter rode horses so they both had some sort of connection to this thing. They let me talk and then at the end, Dieter turned to Trevor and said “You must beeld zees sing; you veel beeld eet yah?” To that Trevor said “Yes, of course we will”.
I meant all this as a reply to El_Peto but clicked the wrong button.
2 hours ago
It makes me so happy to see someone else still talking about this wild concept vehicle. I remember being so insanely hyped about it after the debut, and it's still quite an impressive design by my low standards. :D
Münch Mammut did this better in the 60s, 70s and 90s.
Effectively the first liter bike, it went to 2l, then supercharged.
The Mammut (Mammoth) 2000 was a Cosworth 2l, turbocharged, 265hp beast.
Jay Leno owns an original and has a Jay's Garage episode about it.
... That's less than HALF as much power. They aren't the same thing at all. 🤦😑
@@Cooe. yeah let's see you crack the throttle on the Tomahawk. Do a flip. I bet it handles like a dream, too.
The Mammut is already powerful enough that the only way to find its limits is to be cool with dying to find out.
Also, the Tomahawk is a concept bike - Münch invented the superbike in the 60s. Suck it, Dodge Boy.
@@rocketpigrecords3719 I'm not saying it's awesome to ride, I'm just saying they are completely different things... Because they are. Get the f**k over it. 🤷
My dad was a big viper guy when I was a little kid, so I got to see the tomahawk in person at a show.
Allen Millard did a better bike with the Viper v10 engine reaching 207.1mph. he made it in his shed workshop..take that Chrysler!
Chrysler*
This is mentioned in the part you skipped.....
maybe watch the video next time, dingus.
I was like 10 when this thing was unveiled and it completely captivated me. That era of concepts was completely nuts, really inspired me to get more into engineering and car design
9:51 top speed of 640kph???
The autoshow that year was awesome. We didn’t know we’d never have it that good again.
Looks like something the terminator or robocop would ride lol.
Paint it black, and even Batman could sport it. 👍
Man I loved that thing when I was a kid, had a poster of it on my bedroom wall right beside the Viper.
If Jeep made a motorcycle that was anything like their car I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole. I'd be to worried about it catching fire while I was riding it.
I remember seeing this ride and I thought of The Road Dog, where the DIY motorbike housed a truck engine. Wonderful
What major car manufacturer would make a good motorcycle? I'm guessing Honda or Suzuki could give it a pretty good try 🤪
Maybe BMW but they look often ugly!
@@killerkraut9179 not as bad as some of their recent cars! 😅
You mean, given that Honda and Suzuki are already motorcycle manufacturers?
Honestly in from europe i dont see alot of dodges let alone a tomahawk, but i have to admit reading this in the magazine was so intresting. I think they made a good choice by making the tomahawk it was a great showcase of how skilled they were to attempt and succeed in making a product like this .
Thinking that halving the weight will equal double the speed is worryingly stupid for a company which builds vehicles.
That’s like being able to bench 225lbs x 2 and thinking your 1 rep max is therefore 450lbs
I'm really glad to know that the thing you get at the end of Roblox obstacle courses is actually a real vehicle
oops i barted
(barted)
What if we barted together?
Ok
@@hank1556your picture 🤣👃🏼
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The compactness of it is actually really remarkable. I don't think anyone ever talks about the fact that they not only put a viper engine into a motorcycle but also a fuel tank, radiator, real suspension system, battery and everything else.
It definitely isn’t doing 300, but you went a bit far in your criticism. To say it would fall apart at 100 is laughable, it’s clearly capable of hitting speeds of 150mph safely. Above 160 would be tough, but only due to lack of a fairing. With a fairing it’s obviously capable of very high speed. I don’t know where this idea of it falling apart is coming from. It looks very solid, well built, stable and has 4 tires. It’s overbuilt if anything..
9:54 lmfao toppfart
13:25 also, air resistance increases with the CUBE of velocity. Top notch aero design would be necessary to reach even half of the projected toppfart.
W 😂
This was never a serious attempt to make a motorcycle. It was simply a buzzpiece and concept machine. At no point did anything think this was remotely close to a production machine
omg i remeber having the hotwheel version of this, you just unlocked a memory
The older carbourated Honda Goldwing/Valkyrie uses a miniaturized version of the flat 6 in the Porche 911. The Valkyrie specifically is a beast of a bike and I have clocked mine going 0-60 in 3.5 seconds, though I have an aftermarked transmission.
And then we have the Rocket III... a monster of a bike.
Superheavy cruisers are damn near car engines strapped to a motorcycle frame.
I lost my mind when I first saw that monster. Still my favorite bike design of all time.
Even the name, Dodge tomahawk, goes hard, enough said, I didnt knew this motorcycle existed until now, thsts what I thought but Ive seen that image before, I thought it was concept art, youve unlocked my memory, thank you, to find out it is REAL, it made my day
I remember having a hot wheels of this. When I was a kid I thought it was one of the original designs but when I found out it wasn't, I thought it was the coolest motorcycle.
Man what a time... I remember around those years when I was working myself, just as a silly teen making doodles, about the concept of a Shelby Motorcycle, with friends teasing me about it cause they believed it was dumb... and then this thing was announced... I was mind blowed...
It's absolutely beautiful. I think it could absolutely get to 110 safely, it is made of very strong material and by engineers who understand how stress and physics will react on the parts of the bike.
Any speed beyond that is a great unknown, could the rider even stay on the bike? A rocket can go many times the speed of sound, but just because the engineers bolted a steel chair to it that is guaranteed to stay on the rocket, doesn't mean you'll stay on the chair.
If I could afford it I would buy it without question, even though it would probably only be used as a cruiser, with the occasional long journey, never going faster than traffic.
It certainly has the spirit of the Viper, go beyond your limits and it will kill you and itself.
How about the Münch Mammut 1200TTS? A hand-built, ultra expensive Motorcycle equipped with the engine from a car built by another Motorcycle manufacturer.
I saw this at the auto show back in '03. I was amazed. Still am, honestly.
When I was in the states, I worked on a racing stock car which all had Yamaha FJ1100 engines.
Around 1996 I was living in Roswell Georgia USA and my 1989 Yamaha FJ1200 with 55,000 miles / 86,500 Km was stolen. A co-worker told me it most likely got parted out with the engine/transmission ending up in a Legends race car ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legends_car_racing ), given that the Road Atlanta race track was only ~60 miles away.
Maybe it will be a good idea to show the evolution of the Harley Davidson Livewire from the testride prototypes of the 2014 Us for A tour, until the production version, and later the new independent brand Livewire and the rename of the model as Livewire One.
At that time they weren’t available but a short time later they could have used a set of 305 wide cycle tires
Wish you would’ve followed through on the “more on it later” for the Boss Hoss. Those things are amazing and while they often use a small block for them, they will still rattle your balls off!
Basically whole motorcycle would be one giant fuel reservoir
Has 4 wheels that is the basis of a car. Bodywork has been optional over the yrs. The Hurt report of yrs ago showed that helmets, used on roadways increase deaths
Man, I remember every kid in my HS drafting class drooling over this thing. “It’s so fast it’ll go through a brick wall!”
"The Viper and the PT Cruiser"
Best you could do eh? Neon says hello.
The Plymouth Prowler was very daring too.
Did you know it was designed by chip foose?
As a fabricator in the auto industry I can't help but admire the teams brought these to life with only a corporate executives vague instruction on what they wanted.
I think it's awesome. It's just a engineering exercise. We don't see it anymore. Today's exercise in automotive is to see how much tech you can cram into a car. You see very, *ahem* feminine cars. Cars made to look "cute" to attract female buyers. NO CAR SHOULD EVER BE CUTE! I would rather see a new concept Prowler with a HEMI or Hurricane I6, or a concept Chevy Chevelle with the Z06 flat plane. Instead, we get a KIA concept with emojis in the massive screens when you start it up.
We need more mad engineering to make outlandish concepts, not boxy EVs, solar panel, vegan leather cars made for people who couldn't change a flat tire and wear furry costumes on the weekends.
This is, absolutely, only my opinion, but I loved the concept and look of the Tomahawk when it was unveiled. I also didn't get bent out of shape with Chrysler's claims about it's performance. I thought it looked good and I was pleasantly surprised that it was actually made and ridden.
AFAIK, BMW started out as a Motorbike manufacturer, that went into car production, starting car production by buying a license/copying the model T, iirc.
Aircraft. Don't forget aircraft. There is a reason the badge looks a bit like a spinning propeller.
@@wbrennan2253 oh yeah, you're right. It does look like a spinning propeller. Learn something new everyday, thank you Sir.
BMW started as an aircraft engine manufacturer, hence the stylized spinning prop logo. Post World War 1, German military aircraft production got shutdown by the Treaty of Versailles. In search of a way to keep the doors open, BMW took one of their flat-four engines, cut it down to an opposed twin, built a motorcycle around it, and as they say, the rest is history.
I was in middle school when this thing was announced. I cut a picture of it out of a magazine from the school library and had it on my wall for several years. I just thought it was one of the coolest looking things. Like something you'd see in a Batman movie.
I had the model used in the thumbnail as a kid. It was really cool!
I was a young dude when the Tomahawk came out. I remember that to me the marketing, commercials and posters kinda said this wasn't so much a motorcycle rather a crazy PR stunt were they took their super hyped engine the Viper V10 and putting it in something stupid to sell posters, models and get feet into their showrooms.
I remember seeing this thing in person at E3 like in 2003 not long after the initial reveal. The thing was huge for a bike, but I thought it would be bigger actually haha.
I'm surprised the thing was never like, used in a movie or had a TV show built around it. Like Knight Rider or something. But, eh it was the 2000's. Having a gimmick like a special car or motorcycle as the central focus of a show is more of an 80's and 90's thing. But hey it might have drummed up some buzz for Dodge by having a TV series like that haha.
I was waiting to pay for my meal at a Denny's in Santa Rosa California, noticed some sketches of this wild motorcycle thing with 4 tires, and a freaking viper engine in it, and the guy who was sitting there, I guess he was coming back from the restroom, noticed me looking at his sketches, so he started telling me about it. Dude was either way too excited, which does seem reasonable, or had "help" with his excitement. He was literally screaming, trying to mimic the exhaust sound to me so I had assumed he had "help" and wrote him off as a crazy guy with some cool sketches. Six months, maybe a year later, I see this thing on tv, there was no mistaking it, dude wasn't crazy, well YES the hell he was, he had told me nobody was willing to hang on to find the top speed, but he claimed to take it over 200mph. Some crazy people are definitely crazy, but you never know, they might be telling you the truth.
I used to love concept cars. You know what I really wanted?
A Dodge Copperhead.
I remember in high school someone said, "I heard a guy was test driving this bike and it tore him apart because it was too fast." Part of me believed it... the stupid part, I guess.