Really cool project man, would love to see you explore this more. Last year I made an axial flux machine for my master thesis and we used a PCB stator. Very fun to play with and relatively cheap to experiment with once you have a set of rotors. Many different types of winding patterns to try out and we got some very promising results out of it!
Can I have your any other social media contact Cause I am working on PCB stator motor Same as you said above May be your experience Can help me a bit Thank you
After watching videos about axial flux arrangements I configured my pulse motor in this way. WOW, a great improvement over the standard armature. You have built an excellent device, great deal of time and talent.....and money. My stuff would be considered low tech, but it works and one of the motors, so far, is self sustaining, after six months of operation maintaining 8.3 - 9.0 volts on a worn out 12 volt car bat. Will post a vid after the first of the years.
@@CraigLandsberg-lk1ep I am sorry to inform you. Our dear friend, almost a year ago now, sadly fell on his shotgun, and accidentally shot himself twice. Please enquire no more. Respect the family's wishes.
I would love to see the generator version. I'm planning to build similar motors/generators for small wind turbines and pumped hydro applications. Subscribed!
I have been wanting to make a good generator for a while now. I will do this soon. I think I need to make at least one more motor stator for a direct comparison. Then the generators.
@@colbyjohnson2344 I think the main issue for a generator is going to be the rpm required to get a decent output which probably implies some sort of gearing... Its difficult to make decent gearing in plastics as the forces that need to get transferred through a relatively small area are pretty big be definition. It might work to use a belt setup with a large diameter for the input and smaller for the generator... Looking fwd to seeing what you come up with! {There are some interesting TH-cam videos of very simple generators -use car bits, etc. Also fascinating to see how they renovate motors in back-alleys of Pakistan!}
Unfortunately they don't make good generators. Not efficient ones anyway. A truly efficient generator is a generator and not a motor. A truly efficient motor is just that and not a generator. If you design a truly efficient motor design it to be just that and not a generator. I'll bet people have no idea why they don't make efficient generators.
One of the best DIY motors I have seen. I think a push + pull coil config and some iron/ferrite inserts would increase the strength a ton. Axial designs are usually better for torque than high RPM. You can use a jig to get precision. Using a single piece of metal mounted to the bearing as a measuring stick to glue each part 1 by 1 as you turn it will make sure they are each exactly the same distance from the bearing. The same can be done for each direction using a single mounting point and set dimension for repeatability.
The most accessible source of energy to the most number of people on this planet, is low rpm. Personal wind turbines can't reach the height needed for consistent high rpm and most people live along and have access to low head river systems. Good stuff. You folks are doing god's work.
man thats got to be my favorite motor ive seen in a while. i generaly love axial flux motors. youve tried to take out every last bit of efficiency of that little thing and that awesoooome. nice work man. love to see it on an e bike btw
That's pretty cool Colby. That it works is huge! I reckon you need a rig to measure actual power out so you can measure the improvements you make. Keep it up, learning is a wonderful thing. Thanks for sharing this.
As you could see on startup of the motor, there is an imbalance you should take care of. Balancing the rotor would improve its performance and reduce the vibration.
Nice detailed build, you put in a lot of effort! Ofcourse there's imbalance, it's not an easy project. I look forward to your progress and versions you will come up with! Not using iron does make for a lightweight motor wich also has it use.
A very neat arrangement. I'm doing something similar but on a much much bigger scale, where I've found 2 phase to be more efficient on material use. Making a Halbach pattern would reduce this efficiency on materials used but make for fewer stray fields. Keep going and do more videos.
Thank you! Yours are very cool as well. Can't wait to see another update :) Currently the back irons are the only parts that are laser cut. I have thought about chopping up the design into a bunch of laser-cuttable parts, but I think certain parts would just be better off machined as one, specifically the rotor hub. I will definitely do that with some other parts when I am happy enough with the design. It has changed a lot over 2 years, but is definitely slowing down. Thanks for your interest in the project
Kinda seems like the problem with the thrust bearing is that you have it interfacing with plastic. It doesn't matter how flat you get that, it's the hardness that's the issue. Maybe an inlaid stainless steel washer would fix that if you really need the motor to bear thrust forces directly.
@@whatelseison8970 Agreed, there's a reason why the rollers on a bearing are so precisesley machined, they need to interface with a surace of equal quality/roughness to work properly and a 3d printed surface just isn't gonna cut it.
Nice work. I will be following your progression on this. Thanks for sharing. I have also experimented a bit on this subject and will probably continue at some point but... now I understand why motors are so expensive :D
You are going to make me build my own motors! Just kidding, but I had the idea on my head for a long time about designing and building electric motors. Great video with great explanations!! Thanks for the inspiration and for the video, Is PURE gold!
Good video, looking forward to seeing more video for practical application like in small vehicle such as motor bike with both axial flux motor-generator. Thank you for sharing your knowledge and experience.
Thanks it's very inspiring, i love the axial flux motor and i plan to build or buy one for project like ebike for example. Just love searching and testing things like you 🙏
I made alternator like this. It was 4" diameter, rotor 16 pole 1/2" x 1/2" x 1/4" thick NdFeB magnets spaced 1/4" apart. Backing for magnets was 3/16" thick steel. Magnet rotor was set in machined aluminum pockets. Stator was 12 semi-triangular coils , non overlapping, embedded in 3/16" thick epoxy-fiberglass circuit board, pocketed out on circuit board miller. Generator was 10 ohms phase-phase & 120VDC (rectified) output when running at 3000 RPM. This was driven by Honda 4-stroke 1HP weedwacker engine running at idle. power output (feeding through world-wide power supply) produced 12V at 80W for charging military equipment in the field. Weight of entire package (engine, alternator, power supply, gasoline for running 3 hours per day for 2 weeks) weighed just over 15 pounds. The military does not have SMALL portable generator units like this for use in the field. The last one I saw was unit with 2-stroke engine making 120VAC 400Hz 1 phase made for use during the Korean War, weighing about the same.
Great work, this is exactly what I've been planning/thinking to build for a big r/c car. Seen lots of motors that are similiar but not like this one. The hallbach with rectangle magnets is perfect and the air core windings are simple, and I also want 12v and low rpm for direct drive to the wheels. I may need more torque and thus thicker wires for higher current. I also have other ideas..single phase operation, it is using all the magnets at once, there is no dead third phase. To get direction, use a second winding at a lower diameter, once the motor is moving this second winding is not really even needed.
Hi Colby, I have built bigger versions of your motor to use as low head hydro turbine generators. I found that using bigger highest strength (N52?) magnets increased the field over the long air gap. The other thing is to compress the windings between two flat surfaces while curing the resin. I was surprised how much experimental compression could be used before any shorted turns occurred. Ordinary mild steel magnet backing worked fine, stray flux is not really a problem. I did not use these as the main advantage is low cogging, important for wind but not hydro.
This is dope, electric motors are very interesting to me. EMFs are just interesting in general, I mean, we kinda wouldn't be able to see without them right :D
This is awesome. I finally found someone like me on TH-cam Lol. You know i have been experimenting with motors for a while too. I made few motors using the tools you have and i failed and succeeded. I am not even an electrical engineer (Mechanical instead) but some how ive fallen in love with motors they are so coooool. However, i stopped designing and building motors i think a year ago because suddenly i needed a metal CNC mill (To build motors) and the 3D printer wasn't sufficient for my needs. So i tried buying one and it turned out that they are so damn expensive but then i found people that build their own cncs and there are many open source designs out there. As mechanical engineer, i love machining. Seeing makers from the community have encouraged me to design and build my own CNC and i am still working on it. As i was working on designing the CNC, lately ive been thinking of designing a very capable 3D printer from scratch too. So as you can see, ive deviated from the motor field just to make tools to help me make better motors Lol. I hope i won't forget why i made the tools in the future Hahaha. Anyways, the last thing i remember experimenting with motors before i abandoned them was casting a stator using epoxy resin mixed with iron powder to make a ferromagnetic core. You see i was using the Protopasta's iron PLA but it sucks and it always broke when i tried to wind the stator because the filament is brittle. At first i tried to cast just small rectangular blocks as specimen (60% iron/ 40% epoxy). They were way stronger then pla. The only problem was that as the epoxy was curing, the powder sunk to the bottom of the block. So at the end one side was more magnetic than the other. So i have 2 suggestions for your design, 1- Try the above (iron powder/epoxy mix) 2- The motor was turning funny because of the 3d prints i think? It kinda felt flimsy. Always use pla as it is the least flexible material. Level your bed and i recommend using glass for the bed. By the way what program did you use for simulation? Maybe do a video about it? Good luck!
Similar story here. I am a software guy, I am also at the point of needed a CNC. I have about 90% of a MPCNC printed and assembled, but I have no idea how it will perform. Check out the forum I have linked in my description. I have made a bunch of custom tools to get where I am. The ferrite cores are my next step as well. I have also heard about the sinking issue, but I have not really explored this too much yet. Also, I do use PLA and my bed is pretty level, I have struggled to identify where things are out of alignment I used FEMM and a custom piece of software that I wrote. I will likely do a video about this in the future.
I think you did very well 😀 it actually looks more ballanced than others, the fact it smoothes its self out with more rpm is a good sign 😅 like i said in previous comments i would love to help you develop this! Please respond if you have any thoughts of what you would like to improve on this, i have the the tools to help you, just ask me 😅 great video & I was actually impresed how smooth it ran💙
Would love to develop a axial no neodimium but riluctance motor that fit into a rollerblade hub, the windings will be made on a pcb would you be interested to try?
That would be really cool, but I have not explored reluctance motors. Maybe at some point I will try something like that, but I have quite a roadmap for my current project. I will probably stick with the PM motor for now. Thanks for your interest!
ProtoPasta makes a Iron Metal-Filled PLA Filament that might be suitable for this project. I believe this is the same Iron-Core based filament used in the Christoph Laimer design.
Congratulations on your creative spirit in this field. At the time of him I had made several experiments on the matter and my opinion and to use not the three-phase but polyphase or two-degree byfase output , do not insist on the sinus wave form, better tending to square wave without harmonics on the current The greater efficiency is found when the rotor diameter, the height of the package is These are my experiences of years of work in the electronic field, however I will follow you with passion, best wishes .. udos46
axial flux motor üzerinde çalıştıysanız veya herhangi en basit bir bilgiye bile sahipseniz yazabilir misiniz. Tecrübelerinizi duymak isterim. Mühendislik öğrencisi 2.sınıfım.
Nice work. It would interesting to know if you have tried one stator and rotor on both side of the stator. Please keep us posted as this is a new area of
I recommend Protopasta's iron filled PLA for motor core design, it prints like PLA but I recommend using a stainless .8mm nozzle instead of a .4 brass one. I am currently also building an experimental motor that has unique operation.
You know.... I have a roll of that sitting around still from a while ago. I was going to make ferrous cores, but that might be a really easy place to start. I have a .4mm steel nozzle. I'll try that. Thanks for the suggestion.
Can you extend the center shaft and add an alternator, in the same design of your invention unit which will convert your generator into a Synergy motor. This way you will not rely on large batteries for the main source of power.
Mercedes is making a similar one for a future car. You should try to run a shaft through the center of the stator, and put a rotor on either side, with the stator in the middle. Double the power with very little size increase.
I just found your Channel and really enjoy your videos I have subscribed I know we all have busy schedules and I hope that you can find time to post more of your educational videos
Can the electro- magnet disk be made to move on the opposite direction for Newtons 2nd law, through improvisation of power cable insertion through needle bearings of universal coupling pin ??? Thank you, if read and considered or slanged and trashed.
Mr Johnson, would it be possible to 3D print a Raxial Motor using both axial and radial magnetic fields combined to produce a stronger field just like the Quark Motor produced by Koenigsegg? Thank you sir.
You know I have thought about this a lot, and I think it would only make sense with an iron core motor. With the air core, I am trying to shrink the air-gap to as small as possible to increase the flux across the stator, but I think that it would be difficult to position magnets either on the inner or outer radius in a way that would add any significant amount of torque. But I would love for someone to prove me wrong.
@@colbyjohnson2344 I see Mr Johnson. You're probably right, but I had to ask anyway, for sometimes people come up with surprising ways to get around a problem. Thanks for your time and work sir.
Have you considered making stator using PCB (printed circuit board) technology? You can get windings pretty close and accurately positioned. You can use multiple PCBs connected as layers
yes, but I believe these types of motors would struggle to carry a large amount of current, and given that there needs to be gaps between the traces, I think a hand wound motor could be more power dense. I have seen a bunch of PCB motors lately and they are cool, but I have not seen any that claim extraordinary power outputs. I do think that PCB, or shaped ribbon cables could certainly improve the cost and time to manufacture. I bet there is a certain market and a balance that could be achieved there.
That needs dynamic balancing. Six very small BRASS grub screws on radial axes close to each edge (three per edge at 120 degrees) of the outside rotor surface should, in theory, help you get there. Good luck.
You would be interested in checking out a new motor concept that produces a high power to weight ratio motor. It's called a "raxial flux" motor as its design uses a combination of both radial and axial fluxes. The resulting motors weigh 30kg and produce 330 BHP ; 250 Kilowatts.
Yes I have heard of this, conceptually the idea is not worth pursuing with the design I have made, but I am really interested in the high power to weight ratio. I also think something like a "raxial" would be difficult to DIY, given that I think it would need to be an iron core, which may require a very specifically shaped yoke.
Thank you for making this video, very interesting to see what you have accomplished. I have also made 2 styles of axial flux generators. 1 is a 24 volt 1000 watt generator and the other is a 48 volt 3000 watt generator, both are for wind energy recovery. Very similar to yours with the copper coils in resin and the magnets. Yours however is much more refined and uses very tight fits and tolerances. Keep with it.
I wonder if there was a way to put sintered cylinders inside the coils to concentrate the magnetic flux if it would help improve efficiency. Or even a steel (ferrous) bobbin type contraption. This way the magnetic field is directed rather than just a field. Very cool that it ran so well...did have an odd vibration harmonic...but it ran quite well! Long term under load does it get hot? Keep em coming!!!!
I understand the theory behind deep inserts, but I have not been able to model a simulation that proves their benefit, so I have not really invested the time or money to try it. As for halbach array, I am already using it. Obviously my thinner magnets should be larger for it to be more effective, but I believe a back iron will always do more than halbach array alone. In my simulations I found that using the halbach array and back iron resulted in the best case. I also played around with the thickness of the back iron to get it as thin as possible while still maximizing the benefit
Nice build. I was wondering g what kind of coils though. The motor on my channel was built to satisfy my curiosity only. It uses three coils with 4 turns per coil and 12 poles per coil. It's an axial flux faulhaber wound coil with a cogless iron core, or rather backing.
@@mjktrash I had more parts machined. And made it simpler but ultimately never finished. Other things in life took priority. I'll go back to it eventually
I enjoyed watching your video, and would like to see whether you could design a real time motor or generator for a ebike or ev . Thanks for sharing your experience.
Hi, I have similar motivation to yourself wanting to ‘build to learn’. I got interested in eVtol craft towards the tail end of last year and did a dive into them, the ESC, batteries and BLDC motors seemed key and as I had a 3D printer I thought I could just print one off… Well I’m a few designs in, some work some don’t. I have a novel axial design that puts the motor on a huge 17” bearing (from a lazy Suzy), that one didn’t quite work but a smaller 7” one did. Onto motors similar to yours. Axial flux ‘pancake’ style seemed best so mines a 12EM stator 2x16PM rotors. I stuck with bobbin-wound coils for the EMs and simple disks for the EMs. Made the mistake of having an iron core in EM, the thing sticks like glue and the magnets are getting ripped out the stators the forces are so strong! 3D printing is good to a point but cnc is the way to go… Things I would like to try: forged carbon fibre rotors, water cooled coils.Good luck!
That's awesome. Id love to see what you came up with. I actually started before I knew anything about this, by also purchasing some small lazy Susan bearings and bike wheels as well thinking I could just slap something huge together. I learned pretty quick it was better to start small. I have learned about the forged carbon fiber technique and I used those principles in making my stator as well, but I agree CNC is the way to go. Water cooling can really allow a motor to draw some more current but obviously introduces more complexity. Ideally I would love to stick to passively cooling this from its own rotation, but I realize that will have its limitations. Thanks for the interest!
This is really impressive Colby. Would making two magnet plates make a lot more power ??? Look forward to more great things from you fella in the future. Nice work Sir.
If I were to stack the magnets it would improve it, yes. I would likely need a slightly thicker back iron, but its possible. obviously it would require twice as many magnets and there are currently 96 in each motor, so I may not try that out of cost alone. I may make larger diameter rotors though.
@@colbyjohnson2344 Colby, how expensive are the extra magnets ??? Drop me a line and I will take care of the magnet cost fella. I am wondering if this motor's efficiency is in the 90 percentile. Reason being that most small motors these days are so inefficient and using them with the cost of electricity skyrocketing will prevent any new way of making an efficient space heating device. That is what I am trying to do Sir. Please let me know what you think Colby. Thanks vf
You might have dips, or uneven highs and lows on the base plate of your 3-d printer that are causing your prints to be uneven or not straight. A remedy might be place your base plate on a perfectly level table top and pour self-leleveling 2-part epoxy over it and allow it to cure into an absolute flat surface. The table must be precisely level. Epoxies like those meant for kitchen countertops might work well. Also by drilling holes through spark-plug feeler gauges you can use them as leveling washers when reinstalling the base plate. However, I don't know if you can print directly on the epoxy. You'd have to experiment. It may require another substrate like butcher block paper covering the base to prevent heat pitting of the epoxy during prints. Probably not in my guestimstion.
interesting ideas. I would be curious how the epoxy would hold up on a heated bed, but maybe epoxy is tacky enough that you dont need the heat at that point. Thanks for the suggestions
I have always thought it would be cool to make a motor out of refrigerator magnets, as they are just small halbach arrays, but I don't think it would be useful for anything. I believe there is a possibility for an axial reluctance motor, but I haven't explored that too much.
nicely done... you need to find someone close to you who has a little machine shop like me. the precision and rigidity of machined parts would eliminate a lot of your problems.
can you make a video comparing the torque between a shaft flux motor and a regular radial flux motor of the same size? i read that the torque of a shaft flux motor is 4 times higher than a regular radial flux motor but i don't see anyone making a video comparing them
Hi Colby super interesting topic love it. I suggest picking up a chines mini lath for a couple hundred bucks you could easily true up those critical faces on your printed parts with it. Turning plastic takes no skill at all and there are lots of resources online, not to mention its a ton of fun. Something like a G9729 combo Mill Lath would be optimal if you can afford it and have the space.
Thank you for the suggestion. I have no knowledge with machining, but I would love to learn more. My biggest issue at the moment is not having enough space in my shop. It's already getting pretty tight, and I have virtually nothing to work with metal.
Hi Colby I am trying to build a Linear Generator & have much the same problems with it that you have with your motor. The Coil is just a Coil of wire. However, to direct the Magnetic Flux of the Oscillating Magnetic Ring, I need to surround this coil with a Laminated Iron Clam Shell. This I can not make myself, however like you I could make a mold & cast the 2 halves of the Clam Shell out of Iron Filings & epoxy. Have you found any way to design & build such things, & calculate how efficient it would be compared to Laminated Sheets ? Thank you for sharing your project ! James
I have not played around with a metal core stator. I only made the air core ones. I think it's worth it to add some metal. But I think it would need to be magnetically separated to have any benefit
im building something like this, can i please ask what is the advantage of spinning the stator instead of the magnets ? im unsure if there is a difference, thank you
In my version the magnets spin. I don't think there's a difference. Obviously spinning the magnets could make the electrical connection to the windings easier.
Yes, increasing the diameter will increase the torque in fact this is one of the main benefits of axial flux motors, but if the diameter is too large, you have to start to fight with the inertia of the rotor, because it would obviously get heavier as it got larger. The energy to run the motor (without load) would be due to inefficiencies in the motor. these would also likely scale with size.
@@colbyjohnson2344 It would be interesting to see an actual test with a larger model vs what you already have created and measure the energy required vs the torque improvement. If the energy required to run the a larger motor is not significantly higher vs the torque improvement then it would make sense to make larger motors for certain applications.
Just awesome :) !! Don't you think you could get laser cut parts for the discs you mount the magnets on? It should be easy to find a reasonable thickness in some steel with enough permeability. The only problem I see is that you would still need some precision outer rims to get the disc perimeter absolutely flat. Also - it would be really cool if you could somehow measure the torque vs electrical power efficiency!
I have been thinking this type of drive might be good for use in a hub motor and wondered if you have considered that as a good application for the technology.
Hi, How do you calculate the configuration of magnet/coil and the distance between them? Right now in the process of creating an axial flux /motor/generator. Can you advise or suggest how to calculate the "correct" configuration? Thank you in advance.
It depends if you have concentrated, or distributed windings. Mine are distributed, which allows for the same number of magnetic poles as stator poles. Concentrated windings are a bit more complicated. As there are ratios that need to be maintained between the number poles between your rotor and stator.
This website has a lot of good tools for concentrated windings, and radial motors. Which is transferrable to axial motors to a degree too. You might need to do some more research before it all makes sense. www.bavaria-direct.co.za/scheme/calculator/
@@colbyjohnson2344 In my case I use concentrated type of windings but ratios is 3coil /4magnets. For me is more important calculate the distance between coil/magnet and quantity of turns.
@@maxbelkv oh, you want the stator as close as possible to the rotor. The number of windings will dictate the voltage. You can calculate this if you know your magnetic field strength, but you might be better off just experimenting at first. Voltage will be linear. If 1 turn gets you 1 volt. 2 turns gets you 2 volts. Hope this helps
True.... however its probably several to tens of thousands of an inch in variation... which is alot compared to a CNCed part it may not be perfectly balanced either since you can see it has some oscillations at certain RPMs.
what's the difference between having a halbach array in a continuous loop vs discrete poles. i mean how do you even know where the poles are, or which way to place the opposing rotor magnets so they aren't both the same poles up?
I believe that the advantage of the halbach array is achieved when the rotor is a continuous loop. Have discreet halbach poles would be strange, as you would need an extra magnet to "end" each pole. By putting them in a loop like this the poles become one of the N/S magnets and half of the two halbach magnets on each side. Using this logic, with overlapped windings, you just split this width by the three phases and find a way to wind something to that size/shape. As for the other rotor. I make it exactly the same as the first, but I just flip the poles. If I started with North facing up, I start with South facing up on the next. otherwise they are the same. Thanks for the question
@@colbyjohnson2344 Ok neat, are overlapped windings just a way to get more copper into the stator? And why are most hobby created motors lacking a core? I guess it's hard to acquire any steel and cut it into laminations? I only found one consumer source of electrical steel for instance, besides ripping it out of old motors.
Yes, its a way of getting more copper into the same volume. This obviously has trade-offs, but when you talk about air-core motors, you would want to use that volume to its maximum potential, which means more copper. I believe that ultimately pound for pound traditional brushless iron-core motors will always exceed the performance a similar sized air-core motor assuming the iron losses are not too high. but yeah, I dont think custom laminations are the easiest to make without the right tools.
@@colbyjohnson2344 ok so ive been designing a few motors now and I think I understand a lot more. the windings are overlapped creating a sine wave instead of a square wave back EMF. though every motor I've worked with has had concentrated windings. have you considered a dual radial/axial flux design? That is what I am working on now, I am finding there is an inverse tradeoff between the performance of the radial and axial portion with the height of the stator cylinder housing them. As you increase height you can increase the copper and length of the radial permanent magnets, but the distance between the rotors of the axial portion increase, decreasing the permanent magnet flux between. I have also found an easy way to get motor laminations is to get them from old microwave transformers. But you will need a rotary tool and measurements to cut them to the correct size. I am also having a bit of trouble with the axial bearings as well. it seems like they will grind against either the axle or the motor because its only really held in place with pressure. or is that not really a concern? my design has a small lip so it can't slip out but i feel like it could deviate to any side even a little and cause friction
Why the air core? I understand the core losses, but the gains far exceed the losses, especially at low KV/rpm. Thanks for sharing. Have you seen the kollmorgen servo disk motor? Its pretty amazing, look it up to get some ideas.
Really cool project man, would love to see you explore this more. Last year I made an axial flux machine for my master thesis and we used a PCB stator. Very fun to play with and relatively cheap to experiment with once you have a set of rotors. Many different types of winding patterns to try out and we got some very promising results out of it!
Can I have your any other social media contact
Cause I am working on PCB stator motor
Same as you said above
May be your experience Can help me a bit
Thank you
After watching videos about axial flux arrangements I configured my pulse motor in this way. WOW, a great improvement over the standard armature. You have built an excellent device, great deal of time and talent.....and money. My stuff would be considered low tech, but it works and one of the motors, so far, is self sustaining, after six months of operation maintaining 8.3 - 9.0 volts on a worn out 12 volt car bat. Will post a vid after the first of the years.
Would love to know that, I have a metal lathe if you don't and could improve your balance/efficiency
@@CraigLandsberg-lk1ep I am sorry to inform you. Our dear friend, almost a year ago now, sadly fell on his shotgun, and accidentally shot himself twice. Please enquire no more. Respect the family's wishes.
@@epochgames3049 I mean, how would anybody know? there's no evidences of that on the channel. Really sorry to see that!
@ganjagardener we know where you live. You put it on your taxes. Stop asking questions.
I would love to see the generator version. I'm planning to build similar motors/generators for small wind turbines and pumped hydro applications. Subscribed!
I have been wanting to make a good generator for a while now. I will do this soon. I think I need to make at least one more motor stator for a direct comparison. Then the generators.
@@colbyjohnson2344 I think the main issue for a generator is going to be the rpm required to get a decent output which probably implies some sort of gearing... Its difficult to make decent gearing in plastics as the forces that need to get transferred through a relatively small area are pretty big be definition. It might work to use a belt setup with a large diameter for the input and smaller for the generator... Looking fwd to seeing what you come up with! {There are some interesting TH-cam videos of very simple generators -use car bits, etc. Also fascinating to see how they renovate motors in back-alleys of Pakistan!}
Unfortunately they don't make good generators. Not efficient ones anyway. A truly efficient generator is a generator and not a motor. A truly efficient motor is just that and not a generator. If you design a truly efficient motor design it to be just that and not a generator. I'll bet people have no idea why they don't make efficient generators.
Efficient = marine wind turbine is the TESUP Master940 , and similar designs. VERY good at low wind speeds
@@JF32304 You might like these marine wind generators like AIR X MARINE TURBINE. You may need ten for an inefficient house though...
One of the best DIY motors I have seen. I think a push + pull coil config and some iron/ferrite inserts would increase the strength a ton. Axial designs are usually better for torque than high RPM. You can use a jig to get precision. Using a single piece of metal mounted to the bearing as a measuring stick to glue each part 1 by 1 as you turn it will make sure they are each exactly the same distance from the bearing. The same can be done for each direction using a single mounting point and set dimension for repeatability.
Very impressive use of modern tools to make a functional DIY power dense motor!
The most accessible source of energy to the most number of people on this planet, is low rpm. Personal wind turbines can't reach the height needed for consistent high rpm and most people live along and have access to low head river systems. Good stuff. You folks are doing god's work.
Is a gearbox so inefficient that you cant use it to convert low rpm, relatively high torque to high rpm, low torque?
man thats got to be my favorite motor ive seen in a while. i generaly love axial flux motors. youve tried to take out every last bit of efficiency of that little thing and that awesoooome. nice work man. love to see it on an e bike btw
That's pretty cool Colby. That it works is huge! I reckon you need a rig to measure actual power out so you can measure the improvements you make.
Keep it up, learning is a wonderful thing. Thanks for sharing this.
Good to see you using back iron. Normal steel works better than cromo for back iron use. Fantastic project motor!
As you could see on startup of the motor, there is an imbalance you should take care of. Balancing the rotor would improve its performance and reduce the vibration.
I agree with Dirk S on the balancing, also adding iron is important as well.
Great video man, stay frosty & keep tinkering!
Nice detailed build, you put in a lot of effort! Ofcourse there's imbalance, it's not an easy project. I look forward to your progress and versions you will come up with! Not using iron does make for a lightweight motor wich also has it use.
A very neat arrangement. I'm doing something similar but on a much much bigger scale, where I've found 2 phase to be more efficient on material use. Making a Halbach pattern would reduce this efficiency on materials used but make for fewer stray fields. Keep going and do more videos.
Beautiful motor! Although machining might be expensive, you might be able to use laser cut materials to address the flatness problem you encountered.
Thank you! Yours are very cool as well. Can't wait to see another update :)
Currently the back irons are the only parts that are laser cut. I have thought about chopping up the design into a bunch of laser-cuttable parts, but I think certain parts would just be better off machined as one, specifically the rotor hub. I will definitely do that with some other parts when I am happy enough with the design. It has changed a lot over 2 years, but is definitely slowing down.
Thanks for your interest in the project
Kinda seems like the problem with the thrust bearing is that you have it interfacing with plastic. It doesn't matter how flat you get that, it's the hardness that's the issue. Maybe an inlaid stainless steel washer would fix that if you really need the motor to bear thrust forces directly.
@@whatelseison8970 Agreed, there's a reason why the rollers on a bearing are so precisesley machined, they need to interface with a surace of equal quality/roughness to work properly and a 3d printed surface just isn't gonna cut it.
Your filming and editing skills are just fine. This motor is fantastic. Sensors are good.
Wow wow wow !!....excellent engineering design...next industrial standard
i want to see this channel turn into multi-million one. amazing content. keep it up brother.
Nice work. I will be following your progression on this. Thanks for sharing.
I have also experimented a bit on this subject and will probably continue at some point but... now I understand why motors are so expensive :D
Its refreshing to see younger generations using their talents. Good job buddy
I really want to design a PCB stator, and this looks like the perfect project to build off of.
now they are making radial and axial combined .. raxial ... looks awesome
You are going to make me build my own motors! Just kidding, but I had the idea on my head for a long time about designing and building electric motors. Great video with great explanations!! Thanks for the inspiration and for the video, Is PURE gold!
Good video, looking forward to seeing more video for practical application like in small vehicle such as motor bike with both axial flux motor-generator.
Thank you for sharing your knowledge and experience.
Thanks it's very inspiring, i love the axial flux motor and i plan to build or buy one for project like ebike for example. Just love searching and testing things like you 🙏
I made alternator like this. It was 4" diameter, rotor 16 pole 1/2" x 1/2" x 1/4" thick NdFeB magnets spaced 1/4" apart. Backing for magnets was 3/16" thick steel. Magnet rotor was set in machined aluminum pockets. Stator was 12 semi-triangular coils , non overlapping, embedded in 3/16" thick epoxy-fiberglass circuit board, pocketed out on circuit board miller. Generator was 10 ohms phase-phase & 120VDC (rectified) output when running at 3000 RPM. This was driven by Honda 4-stroke 1HP weedwacker engine running at idle. power output (feeding through world-wide power supply) produced 12V at 80W for charging military equipment in the field. Weight of entire package (engine, alternator, power supply, gasoline for running 3 hours per day for 2 weeks) weighed just over 15 pounds.
The military does not have SMALL portable generator units like this for use in the field. The last one I saw was unit with 2-stroke engine making 120VAC 400Hz 1 phase made for use during the Korean War, weighing about the same.
Great work, this is exactly what I've been planning/thinking to build for a big r/c car.
Seen lots of motors that are similiar but not like this one. The hallbach with rectangle magnets is perfect and the air core windings are simple, and I also want 12v and low rpm for direct drive to the wheels. I may need more torque and thus thicker wires for higher current.
I also have other ideas..single phase operation, it is using all the magnets at once, there is no dead third phase. To get direction, use a second winding at a lower diameter, once the motor is
moving this second winding is not really even needed.
Dediklerinizi daha ayrıntılı yazabilir misiniz? Ve bahsettiğiniz motor türü Axial Flux PM mı?
Hi Colby, I have built bigger versions of your motor to use as low head hydro turbine generators. I found that using bigger highest strength (N52?) magnets increased the field over the long air gap.
The other thing is to compress the windings between two flat surfaces while curing the resin. I was surprised how much experimental compression could be used before any shorted turns occurred. Ordinary mild steel magnet backing worked fine, stray flux is not really a problem. I did not use these as the main advantage is low cogging, important for wind but not hydro.
Sounds cool. I'd love to see what you've come up with
Maybe water cool one side of the coils? The one side has the magnets and the other side has the water cooling.
Great project, keep it up!
Beautiful motor/generator! Must/could be very energy efficient. I'm new here, will check your other videos now. Keep on developing/experimenting!
This is dope, electric motors are very interesting to me. EMFs are just interesting in general, I mean, we kinda wouldn't be able to see without them right :D
Or feel, or stay together, or live, or even exist. There are only fields.
Colby, you have given your idea - much thanks.
bro the world needs more of you!!!!
This is awesome. I finally found someone like me on TH-cam Lol. You know i have been experimenting with motors for a while too. I made few motors using the tools you have and i failed and succeeded. I am not even an electrical engineer (Mechanical instead) but some how ive fallen in love with motors they are so coooool. However, i stopped designing and building motors i think a year ago because suddenly i needed a metal CNC mill (To build motors) and the 3D printer wasn't sufficient for my needs. So i tried buying one and it turned out that they are so damn expensive but then i found people that build their own cncs and there are many open source designs out there. As mechanical engineer, i love machining. Seeing makers from the community have encouraged me to design and build my own CNC and i am still working on it. As i was working on designing the CNC, lately ive been thinking of designing a very capable 3D printer from scratch too. So as you can see, ive deviated from the motor field just to make tools to help me make better motors Lol. I hope i won't forget why i made the tools in the future Hahaha.
Anyways, the last thing i remember experimenting with motors before i abandoned them was casting a stator using epoxy resin mixed with iron powder to make a ferromagnetic core. You see i was using the Protopasta's iron PLA but it sucks and it always broke when i tried to wind the stator because the filament is brittle. At first i tried to cast just small rectangular blocks as specimen (60% iron/ 40% epoxy). They were way stronger then pla. The only problem was that as the epoxy was curing, the powder sunk to the bottom of the block. So at the end one side was more magnetic than the other.
So i have 2 suggestions for your design,
1- Try the above (iron powder/epoxy mix)
2- The motor was turning funny because of the 3d prints i think? It kinda felt flimsy. Always use pla as it is the least flexible material. Level your bed and i recommend using glass for the bed.
By the way what program did you use for simulation? Maybe do a video about it?
Good luck!
Similar story here. I am a software guy, I am also at the point of needed a CNC. I have about 90% of a MPCNC printed and assembled, but I have no idea how it will perform. Check out the forum I have linked in my description. I have made a bunch of custom tools to get where I am.
The ferrite cores are my next step as well. I have also heard about the sinking issue, but I have not really explored this too much yet.
Also, I do use PLA and my bed is pretty level, I have struggled to identify where things are out of alignment
I used FEMM and a custom piece of software that I wrote. I will likely do a video about this in the future.
I think you did very well 😀 it actually looks more ballanced than others, the fact it smoothes its self out with more rpm is a good sign 😅 like i said in previous comments i would love to help you develop this! Please respond if you have any thoughts of what you would like to improve on this, i have the the tools to help you, just ask me 😅 great video & I was actually impresed how smooth it ran💙
This looks perfect for gyro based applications great vid 👌
Nice project. Thanks for sharing,
Please calculate the torque theoretically as well practically in the next video.
If the printer is belt driven tightening the x/y belts might correct the imperfections of the prints coming out of it...
Would love to develop a axial no neodimium but riluctance motor that fit into a rollerblade hub, the windings will be made on a pcb would you be interested to try?
That would be really cool, but I have not explored reluctance motors. Maybe at some point I will try something like that, but I have quite a roadmap for my current project. I will probably stick with the PM motor for now.
Thanks for your interest!
ProtoPasta makes a Iron Metal-Filled PLA Filament that might be suitable for this project. I believe this is the same Iron-Core based filament used in the Christoph Laimer design.
Congratulations on your creative spirit in this field. At the time of him I had made several experiments on the matter and my opinion and to use not the three-phase but polyphase or two-degree byfase output
, do not insist on the sinus wave form, better tending to square wave without harmonics on the current
The greater efficiency is found when the rotor diameter, the height of the package is
These are my experiences of years of work in the electronic field, however I will follow you with passion, best wishes ..
udos46
axial flux motor üzerinde çalıştıysanız veya herhangi en basit bir bilgiye bile sahipseniz yazabilir misiniz. Tecrübelerinizi duymak isterim. Mühendislik öğrencisi 2.sınıfım.
Nice work. It would interesting to know if you have tried one stator and rotor on both side of the stator. Please keep us posted as this is a new area of
You’re definitely on the path good job
I recommend Protopasta's iron filled PLA for motor core design, it prints like PLA but I recommend using a stainless .8mm nozzle instead of a .4 brass one. I am currently also building an experimental motor that has unique operation.
You know.... I have a roll of that sitting around still from a while ago. I was going to make ferrous cores, but that might be a really easy place to start. I have a .4mm steel nozzle. I'll try that. Thanks for the suggestion.
th-cam.com/video/TfBWD1vP3hQ/w-d-xo.html
Hi @Anthonyleggio4877, Did you complete the print with iron filled PLA? How is it working, can I try it for 3D printing Axial Flux alternator?
I know this comment is super old, but I had to try asking anyway, when you say motor core, do you mean the Stator?
.
Can you extend the center shaft and add an alternator, in the same design of your invention unit which will convert your generator into a Synergy motor.
This way you will not rely on large batteries for the main source of power.
Mercedes is making a similar one for a future car. You should try to run a shaft through the center of the stator, and put a rotor on either side, with the stator in the middle. Double the power with very little size increase.
I just found your Channel and really enjoy your videos I have subscribed I know we all have busy schedules and I hope that you can find time to post more of your educational videos
Can the electro- magnet disk be made to move on the opposite direction for Newtons 2nd law, through improvisation of power cable insertion through needle bearings of universal coupling pin ???
Thank you, if read and considered or slanged and trashed.
Mr Johnson, would it be possible to 3D print a Raxial Motor using both axial and radial magnetic fields combined to produce a stronger field just like the Quark Motor produced by Koenigsegg? Thank you sir.
You know I have thought about this a lot, and I think it would only make sense with an iron core motor. With the air core, I am trying to shrink the air-gap to as small as possible to increase the flux across the stator, but I think that it would be difficult to position magnets either on the inner or outer radius in a way that would add any significant amount of torque. But I would love for someone to prove me wrong.
@@colbyjohnson2344 I see Mr Johnson. You're probably right, but I had to ask anyway, for sometimes people come up with surprising ways to get around a problem. Thanks for your time and work sir.
Are you alive?
Your contact details
Have you considered making stator using PCB (printed circuit board) technology? You can get windings pretty close and accurately positioned. You can use multiple PCBs connected as layers
yes, but I believe these types of motors would struggle to carry a large amount of current, and given that there needs to be gaps between the traces, I think a hand wound motor could be more power dense. I have seen a bunch of PCB motors lately and they are cool, but I have not seen any that claim extraordinary power outputs.
I do think that PCB, or shaped ribbon cables could certainly improve the cost and time to manufacture. I bet there is a certain market and a balance that could be achieved there.
One on each wheel would make a great electric commuter car, on dry roads of course. You are a modern day George Westinghouse.
That needs dynamic balancing.
Six very small BRASS grub screws on radial axes close to each edge (three per edge at 120 degrees) of the outside rotor surface should, in theory, help you get there. Good luck.
You would be interested in checking out a new motor concept that produces a high power to weight ratio motor.
It's called a "raxial flux" motor as its design uses a combination of both radial and axial fluxes.
The resulting motors weigh 30kg and produce 330 BHP ; 250 Kilowatts.
Yes I have heard of this, conceptually the idea is not worth pursuing with the design I have made, but I am really interested in the high power to weight ratio. I also think something like a "raxial" would be difficult to DIY, given that I think it would need to be an iron core, which may require a very specifically shaped yoke.
Awesome video! We're all learning :)
Please, is it possible to make a video of how to make the stator and how to wind the wire? I will be very thankful to you.
Thank you for making this video, very interesting to see what you have accomplished. I have also made 2 styles of axial flux generators. 1 is a 24 volt 1000 watt generator and the other is a 48 volt 3000 watt generator, both are for wind energy recovery. Very similar to yours with the copper coils in resin and the magnets. Yours however is much more refined and uses very tight fits and tolerances. Keep with it.
Great work! Could you please report the inverter unit model used to drive the motor? Thanks!!
I wonder if there was a way to put sintered cylinders inside the coils to concentrate the magnetic flux if it would help improve efficiency. Or even a steel (ferrous) bobbin type contraption. This way the magnetic field is directed rather than just a field.
Very cool that it ran so well...did have an odd vibration harmonic...but it ran quite well!
Long term under load does it get hot?
Keep em coming!!!!
Is it possible to ditch the iron backing for a Hallbach array with deep inserts, any thoughts?
I understand the theory behind deep inserts, but I have not been able to model a simulation that proves their benefit, so I have not really invested the time or money to try it.
As for halbach array, I am already using it. Obviously my thinner magnets should be larger for it to be more effective, but I believe a back iron will always do more than halbach array alone.
In my simulations I found that using the halbach array and back iron resulted in the best case. I also played around with the thickness of the back iron to get it as thin as possible while still maximizing the benefit
Take a look at the flux pattern design on the Zero electric motorcycle as they did a lot of R &D on it
Nice build. I was wondering g what kind of coils though.
The motor on my channel was built to satisfy my curiosity only. It uses three coils with 4 turns per coil and 12 poles per coil. It's an axial flux faulhaber wound coil with a cogless iron core, or rather backing.
If big copper spins in center, heavy, would there be forces, like copper affect magnet when moving or aluminium, like ice boils under pressure
The copper winding is the stator. It does not spin
Any updates on this? I'll go check your channel next. I'm looking for efficient generator designs
@@mjktrash I had more parts machined. And made it simpler but ultimately never finished. Other things in life took priority. I'll go back to it eventually
Wow the possibilities seem endless. Power to the people. Thanks for sharing this with simple enough explanation
th-cam.com/video/TfBWD1vP3hQ/w-d-xo.html
I enjoyed watching your video, and would like to see whether you could design a real time motor or generator for a ebike or ev . Thanks for sharing your experience.
Hi, I have similar motivation to yourself wanting to ‘build to learn’. I got interested in eVtol craft towards the tail end of last year and did a dive into them, the ESC, batteries and BLDC motors seemed key and as I had a 3D printer I thought I could just print one off… Well I’m a few designs in, some work some don’t. I have a novel axial design that puts the motor on a huge 17” bearing (from a lazy Suzy), that one didn’t quite work but a smaller 7” one did. Onto motors similar to yours. Axial flux ‘pancake’ style seemed best so mines a 12EM stator 2x16PM rotors. I stuck with bobbin-wound coils for the EMs and simple disks for the EMs. Made the mistake of having an iron core in EM, the thing sticks like glue and the magnets are getting ripped out the stators the forces are so strong! 3D printing is good to a point but cnc is the way to go… Things I would like to try: forged carbon fibre rotors, water cooled coils.Good luck!
That's awesome. Id love to see what you came up with. I actually started before I knew anything about this, by also purchasing some small lazy Susan bearings and bike wheels as well thinking I could just slap something huge together. I learned pretty quick it was better to start small.
I have learned about the forged carbon fiber technique and I used those principles in making my stator as well, but I agree CNC is the way to go.
Water cooling can really allow a motor to draw some more current but obviously introduces more complexity. Ideally I would love to stick to passively cooling this from its own rotation, but I realize that will have its limitations.
Thanks for the interest!
Я Уже это всё сделал !!!
Мотор 500*500*300мм
ОХЛАЖДЕНИЕ маслянное !
@@НИКОЛАЙРАМАЗАНОВ-ч5к I would love to see a video of it. that's a large motor
@@colbyjohnson2344 у вас есть WhatsApp ???
@@colbyjohnson2344 от детского контроллера
Трое взрослых мужчин не могут остановить
Не точто за вал
ДАЖЕ ЗА ДИСК !!!!!!!!!!№💪💪💪
Could you make a tutorial on how you designed it and how you built it?
You can print two halves of a mold to use ferrite powder and slow-curing epoxy to make excellent diy ferrite cores.
This is really impressive Colby. Would making two magnet plates make a lot more power ??? Look forward to more great things from you fella in the future. Nice work Sir.
If I were to stack the magnets it would improve it, yes. I would likely need a slightly thicker back iron, but its possible. obviously it would require twice as many magnets and there are currently 96 in each motor, so I may not try that out of cost alone. I may make larger diameter rotors though.
@@colbyjohnson2344 Colby, how expensive are the extra magnets ??? Drop me a line and I will take care of the magnet cost fella. I am wondering if this motor's efficiency is in the 90 percentile. Reason being that most small motors these days are so inefficient and using them with the cost of electricity skyrocketing will prevent any new way of making an efficient space heating device. That is what I am trying to do Sir. Please let me know what you think Colby. Thanks vf
You might have dips, or uneven highs and lows on the base plate of your 3-d printer that are causing your prints to be uneven or not straight. A remedy might be place your base plate on a perfectly level table top and pour self-leleveling 2-part epoxy over it and allow it to cure into an absolute flat surface. The table must be precisely level. Epoxies like those meant for kitchen countertops might work well. Also by drilling holes through spark-plug feeler gauges you can use them as leveling washers when reinstalling the base plate. However, I don't know if you can print directly on the epoxy. You'd have to experiment. It may require another substrate like butcher block paper covering the base to prevent heat pitting of the epoxy during prints. Probably not in my guestimstion.
interesting ideas. I would be curious how the epoxy would hold up on a heated bed, but maybe epoxy is tacky enough that you dont need the heat at that point. Thanks for the suggestions
Perhaps also a ferrites on the back of the stator?
Ah, never mind - I see it fully assembled has the irons on both sides, and they're outboards of the Halbach arrays anyway. Nevermind.
love your work!!!
Can you make an axial flux motor without permanent magnets? Rare earth materials are not easily accessible en mass.
I have always thought it would be cool to make a motor out of refrigerator magnets, as they are just small halbach arrays, but I don't think it would be useful for anything. I believe there is a possibility for an axial reluctance motor, but I haven't explored that too much.
That is really nice,good job on that,instant subscribe.
E Bike and Robotic EVs , Aircraft, Medical Equipments can adopt these Axial motors 👍
nicely done... you need to find someone close to you who has a little machine shop like me. the precision and rigidity of machined parts would eliminate a lot of your problems.
can you make a video comparing the torque between a shaft flux motor and a regular radial flux motor of the same size? i read that the torque of a shaft flux motor is 4 times higher than a regular radial flux motor but i don't see anyone making a video comparing them
Genius idea
Nice set up
I like the size
Hi, can I just use the odriver to control the axial flux motor like the normal outer rotor motor? Thank you
Hi Colby super interesting topic love it. I suggest picking up a chines mini lath for a couple hundred bucks you could easily true up those critical faces on your printed parts with it. Turning plastic takes no skill at all and there are lots of resources online, not to mention its a ton of fun. Something like a G9729 combo Mill Lath would be optimal if you can afford it and have the space.
Thank you for the suggestion. I have no knowledge with machining, but I would love to learn more. My biggest issue at the moment is not having enough space in my shop. It's already getting pretty tight, and I have virtually nothing to work with metal.
I've 3D printed a part and then machined smooth surfaces onto that part afterward.
Hi Colby
I am trying to build a Linear Generator & have much the same problems with it that you have with your motor. The Coil is just a Coil of wire. However, to direct the Magnetic Flux of the Oscillating Magnetic Ring, I need to surround this coil with a Laminated Iron Clam Shell. This I can not make myself, however like you I could make a mold & cast the 2 halves of the Clam Shell out of Iron Filings & epoxy. Have you found any way to design & build such things, & calculate how efficient it would be compared to Laminated Sheets ?
Thank you for sharing your project ! James
I have not played around with a metal core stator. I only made the air core ones. I think it's worth it to add some metal. But I think it would need to be magnetically separated to have any benefit
im building something like this, can i please ask what is the advantage of spinning the stator instead of the magnets ? im unsure if there is a difference, thank you
In my version the magnets spin. I don't think there's a difference.
Obviously spinning the magnets could make the electrical connection to the windings easier.
Hey would you be interested in a side project where that design will flourish?
@colbyjohnson2344 where do you buy the skinny magnets for making the Halbach array?
How would you say the performance to weight ratio is conpared to a normal brushless motor?
If the diameter is larger will it produce more torque? Will the energy needed to run be proportional to its size?
Yes, increasing the diameter will increase the torque in fact this is one of the main benefits of axial flux motors, but if the diameter is too large, you have to start to fight with the inertia of the rotor, because it would obviously get heavier as it got larger. The energy to run the motor (without load) would be due to inefficiencies in the motor. these would also likely scale with size.
@@colbyjohnson2344 It would be interesting to see an actual test with a larger model vs what you already have created and measure the energy required vs the torque improvement. If the energy required to run the a larger motor is not significantly higher vs the torque improvement then it would make sense to make larger motors for certain applications.
Just awesome :) !!
Don't you think you could get laser cut parts for the discs you mount the magnets on? It should be easy to find a reasonable thickness in some steel with enough permeability. The only problem I see is that you would still need some precision outer rims to get the disc perimeter absolutely flat.
Also - it would be really cool if you could somehow measure the torque vs electrical power efficiency!
The back iron on the rotors are laser cut steel 1.6mm.
I will definitely get torque efficiency measurements and post them when I can
is it possible to do it using PCB coil stator ?
I have been thinking this type of drive might be good for use in a hub motor and wondered if you have considered that as a good application for the technology.
Hi,
How do you calculate the configuration of magnet/coil and the distance between them?
Right now in the process of creating an axial flux /motor/generator.
Can you advise or suggest how to calculate the "correct" configuration?
Thank you in advance.
It depends if you have concentrated, or distributed windings. Mine are distributed, which allows for the same number of magnetic poles as stator poles.
Concentrated windings are a bit more complicated. As there are ratios that need to be maintained between the number poles between your rotor and stator.
This website has a lot of good tools for concentrated windings, and radial motors. Which is transferrable to axial motors to a degree too. You might need to do some more research before it all makes sense.
www.bavaria-direct.co.za/scheme/calculator/
@@colbyjohnson2344 In my case I use concentrated type of windings but ratios is 3coil /4magnets. For me is more important calculate the distance between coil/magnet and quantity of turns.
@@maxbelkv oh, you want the stator as close as possible to the rotor.
The number of windings will dictate the voltage. You can calculate this if you know your magnetic field strength, but you might be better off just experimenting at first.
Voltage will be linear. If 1 turn gets you 1 volt. 2 turns gets you 2 volts.
Hope this helps
The equation you are looking for is Faraday's law of induction
Nice work. All you need to do now is to refine the making process.
Wow that looks almost made in a cutting edge accuracy despite being a diy. I wish you can make something for an electric motorcycle
True.... however its probably several to tens of thousands of an inch in variation... which is alot compared to a CNCed part it may not be perfectly balanced either since you can see it has some oscillations at certain RPMs.
It is one of the better built axial motors I have seen. I would think he could get a couple hundred watts out as a generator.
what about pcb for the windings
Very cool. Can you post your sources for magnets, wire, and bearings?
Where did you get the magnets you used in the rotor?
What about the cages and the squirrels?
what's the difference between having a halbach array in a continuous loop vs discrete poles. i mean how do you even know where the poles are, or which way to place the opposing rotor magnets so they aren't both the same poles up?
I believe that the advantage of the halbach array is achieved when the rotor is a continuous loop. Have discreet halbach poles would be strange, as you would need an extra magnet to "end" each pole.
By putting them in a loop like this the poles become one of the N/S magnets and half of the two halbach magnets on each side. Using this logic, with overlapped windings, you just split this width by the three phases and find a way to wind something to that size/shape.
As for the other rotor. I make it exactly the same as the first, but I just flip the poles. If I started with North facing up, I start with South facing up on the next. otherwise they are the same.
Thanks for the question
@@colbyjohnson2344 Ok neat, are overlapped windings just a way to get more copper into the stator? And why are most hobby created motors lacking a core? I guess it's hard to acquire any steel and cut it into laminations? I only found one consumer source of electrical steel for instance, besides ripping it out of old motors.
Yes, its a way of getting more copper into the same volume. This obviously has trade-offs, but when you talk about air-core motors, you would want to use that volume to its maximum potential, which means more copper. I believe that ultimately pound for pound traditional brushless iron-core motors will always exceed the performance a similar sized air-core motor assuming the iron losses are not too high.
but yeah, I dont think custom laminations are the easiest to make without the right tools.
@@colbyjohnson2344 ok so ive been designing a few motors now and I think I understand a lot more. the windings are overlapped creating a sine wave instead of a square wave back EMF. though every motor I've worked with has had concentrated windings.
have you considered a dual radial/axial flux design? That is what I am working on now, I am finding there is an inverse tradeoff between the performance of the radial and axial portion with the height of the stator cylinder housing them. As you increase height you can increase the copper and length of the radial permanent magnets, but the distance between the rotors of the axial portion increase, decreasing the permanent magnet flux between.
I have also found an easy way to get motor laminations is to get them from old microwave transformers. But you will need a rotary tool and measurements to cut them to the correct size.
I am also having a bit of trouble with the axial bearings as well. it seems like they will grind against either the axle or the motor because its only really held in place with pressure. or is that not really a concern? my design has a small lip so it can't slip out but i feel like it could deviate to any side even a little and cause friction
Gota feel good you conceived engineered and developed a functional ptototype
Why the air core? I understand the core losses, but the gains far exceed the losses, especially at low KV/rpm. Thanks for sharing.
Have you seen the kollmorgen servo disk motor? Its pretty amazing, look it up to get some ideas.
just curious how your project was going ,i did see acouple of the pcb manufactureers now offer pretty checp cnc work and even metal printing
It seems like this could be ideal for some robot actuators. I wonder if you could make a jumping robot with it.