DIY Air Core Axial Flux Motor/Generator
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 ก.พ. 2022
- Going a bit more in depth with the different parts of the motor.
Forgive my filming and editing skills. I am still learning
Simulation Generator (Work in progress)
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Follow the journey:
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Winding jig STL:
www.thingiverse.com/thing:533... - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
Really cool project man, would love to see you explore this more. Last year I made an axial flux machine for my master thesis and we used a PCB stator. Very fun to play with and relatively cheap to experiment with once you have a set of rotors. Many different types of winding patterns to try out and we got some very promising results out of it!
Can I have your any other social media contact
Cause I am working on PCB stator motor
Same as you said above
May be your experience Can help me a bit
Thank you
man thats got to be my favorite motor ive seen in a while. i generaly love axial flux motors. youve tried to take out every last bit of efficiency of that little thing and that awesoooome. nice work man. love to see it on an e bike btw
That's pretty cool Colby. That it works is huge! I reckon you need a rig to measure actual power out so you can measure the improvements you make.
Keep it up, learning is a wonderful thing. Thanks for sharing this.
Very impressive use of modern tools to make a functional DIY power dense motor!
After watching videos about axial flux arrangements I configured my pulse motor in this way. WOW, a great improvement over the standard armature. You have built an excellent device, great deal of time and talent.....and money. My stuff would be considered low tech, but it works and one of the motors, so far, is self sustaining, after six months of operation maintaining 8.3 - 9.0 volts on a worn out 12 volt car bat. Will post a vid after the first of the years.
Would love to know that, I have a metal lathe if you don't and could improve your balance/efficiency
Your filming and editing skills are just fine. This motor is fantastic. Sensors are good.
Nice work. I will be following your progression on this. Thanks for sharing.
I have also experimented a bit on this subject and will probably continue at some point but... now I understand why motors are so expensive :D
bro the world needs more of you!!!!
A very neat arrangement. I'm doing something similar but on a much much bigger scale, where I've found 2 phase to be more efficient on material use. Making a Halbach pattern would reduce this efficiency on materials used but make for fewer stray fields. Keep going and do more videos.
Thanks it's very inspiring, i love the axial flux motor and i plan to build or buy one for project like ebike for example. Just love searching and testing things like you 🙏
Good video, looking forward to seeing more video for practical application like in small vehicle such as motor bike with both axial flux motor-generator.
Thank you for sharing your knowledge and experience.
I would love to see the generator version. I'm planning to build similar motors/generators for small wind turbines and pumped hydro applications. Subscribed!
I have been wanting to make a good generator for a while now. I will do this soon. I think I need to make at least one more motor stator for a direct comparison. Then the generators.
@@colbyjohnson2344 I think the main issue for a generator is going to be the rpm required to get a decent output which probably implies some sort of gearing... Its difficult to make decent gearing in plastics as the forces that need to get transferred through a relatively small area are pretty big be definition. It might work to use a belt setup with a large diameter for the input and smaller for the generator... Looking fwd to seeing what you come up with! {There are some interesting TH-cam videos of very simple generators -use car bits, etc. Also fascinating to see how they renovate motors in back-alleys of Pakistan!}
Unfortunately they don't make good generators. Not efficient ones anyway. A truly efficient generator is a generator and not a motor. A truly efficient motor is just that and not a generator. If you design a truly efficient motor design it to be just that and not a generator. I'll bet people have no idea why they don't make efficient generators.
Efficient = marine wind turbine is the TESUP Master940 , and similar designs. VERY good at low wind speeds
@@JF32304 You might like these marine wind generators like AIR X MARINE TURBINE. You may need ten for an inefficient house though...
Its refreshing to see younger generations using their talents. Good job buddy
i want to see this channel turn into multi-million one. amazing content. keep it up brother.
Good to see you using back iron. Normal steel works better than cromo for back iron use. Fantastic project motor!
Beautiful motor/generator! Must/could be very energy efficient. I'm new here, will check your other videos now. Keep on developing/experimenting!
Great work, this is exactly what I've been planning/thinking to build for a big r/c car.
Seen lots of motors that are similiar but not like this one. The hallbach with rectangle magnets is perfect and the air core windings are simple, and I also want 12v and low rpm for direct drive to the wheels. I may need more torque and thus thicker wires for higher current.
I also have other ideas..single phase operation, it is using all the magnets at once, there is no dead third phase. To get direction, use a second winding at a lower diameter, once the motor is
moving this second winding is not really even needed.
I really want to design a PCB stator, and this looks like the perfect project to build off of.
Colby, you have given your idea - much thanks.
You are going to make me build my own motors! Just kidding, but I had the idea on my head for a long time about designing and building electric motors. Great video with great explanations!! Thanks for the inspiration and for the video, Is PURE gold!
As you could see on startup of the motor, there is an imbalance you should take care of. Balancing the rotor would improve its performance and reduce the vibration.
I agree with Dirk S on the balancing, also adding iron is important as well.
Great video man, stay frosty & keep tinkering!
Nice detailed build, you put in a lot of effort! Ofcourse there's imbalance, it's not an easy project. I look forward to your progress and versions you will come up with! Not using iron does make for a lightweight motor wich also has it use.
Very cool. Can you post your sources for magnets, wire, and bearings?
Wow wow wow !!....excellent engineering design...next industrial standard
This looks perfect for gyro based applications great vid 👌
Beautiful motor! Although machining might be expensive, you might be able to use laser cut materials to address the flatness problem you encountered.
Thank you! Yours are very cool as well. Can't wait to see another update :)
Currently the back irons are the only parts that are laser cut. I have thought about chopping up the design into a bunch of laser-cuttable parts, but I think certain parts would just be better off machined as one, specifically the rotor hub. I will definitely do that with some other parts when I am happy enough with the design. It has changed a lot over 2 years, but is definitely slowing down.
Thanks for your interest in the project
Kinda seems like the problem with the thrust bearing is that you have it interfacing with plastic. It doesn't matter how flat you get that, it's the hardness that's the issue. Maybe an inlaid stainless steel washer would fix that if you really need the motor to bear thrust forces directly.
@@whatelseison8970 Agreed, there's a reason why the rollers on a bearing are so precisesley machined, they need to interface with a surace of equal quality/roughness to work properly and a 3d printed surface just isn't gonna cut it.
Nice project. Thanks for sharing,
Please calculate the torque theoretically as well practically in the next video.
Maybe water cool one side of the coils? The one side has the magnets and the other side has the water cooling.
Great project, keep it up!
now they are making radial and axial combined .. raxial ... looks awesome
Congratulations on your creative spirit in this field. At the time of him I had made several experiments on the matter and my opinion and to use not the three-phase but polyphase or two-degree byfase output
, do not insist on the sinus wave form, better tending to square wave without harmonics on the current
The greater efficiency is found when the rotor diameter, the height of the package is
These are my experiences of years of work in the electronic field, however I will follow you with passion, best wishes ..
udos46
Genius idea
Nice set up
I like the size
I think you did very well 😀 it actually looks more ballanced than others, the fact it smoothes its self out with more rpm is a good sign 😅 like i said in previous comments i would love to help you develop this! Please respond if you have any thoughts of what you would like to improve on this, i have the the tools to help you, just ask me 😅 great video & I was actually impresed how smooth it ran💙
Hi Colby, I have built bigger versions of your motor to use as low head hydro turbine generators. I found that using bigger highest strength (N52?) magnets increased the field over the long air gap.
The other thing is to compress the windings between two flat surfaces while curing the resin. I was surprised how much experimental compression could be used before any shorted turns occurred. Ordinary mild steel magnet backing worked fine, stray flux is not really a problem. I did not use these as the main advantage is low cogging, important for wind but not hydro.
Sounds cool. I'd love to see what you've come up with
You’re definitely on the path good job
ProtoPasta makes a Iron Metal-Filled PLA Filament that might be suitable for this project. I believe this is the same Iron-Core based filament used in the Christoph Laimer design.
The most accessible source of energy to the most number of people on this planet, is low rpm. Personal wind turbines can't reach the height needed for consistent high rpm and most people live along and have access to low head river systems. Good stuff. You folks are doing god's work.
Is a gearbox so inefficient that you cant use it to convert low rpm, relatively high torque to high rpm, low torque?
It seems like this could be ideal for some robot actuators. I wonder if you could make a jumping robot with it.
Simple but informative 🤞
Can you please brief hall back pattern in detail.....?
Thank you ✌
Nice work. It would interesting to know if you have tried one stator and rotor on both side of the stator. Please keep us posted as this is a new area of
This is really impressive Colby. Would making two magnet plates make a lot more power ??? Look forward to more great things from you fella in the future. Nice work Sir.
If I were to stack the magnets it would improve it, yes. I would likely need a slightly thicker back iron, but its possible. obviously it would require twice as many magnets and there are currently 96 in each motor, so I may not try that out of cost alone. I may make larger diameter rotors though.
@@colbyjohnson2344 Colby, how expensive are the extra magnets ??? Drop me a line and I will take care of the magnet cost fella. I am wondering if this motor's efficiency is in the 90 percentile. Reason being that most small motors these days are so inefficient and using them with the cost of electricity skyrocketing will prevent any new way of making an efficient space heating device. That is what I am trying to do Sir. Please let me know what you think Colby. Thanks vf
Hi Colby. Have you continued your work?
This is dope, electric motors are very interesting to me. EMFs are just interesting in general, I mean, we kinda wouldn't be able to see without them right :D
Or feel, or stay together, or live, or even exist. There are only fields.
I just found your Channel and really enjoy your videos I have subscribed I know we all have busy schedules and I hope that you can find time to post more of your educational videos
man that was awesome but. I want to build a drone with really high speed do you think what kind of motor should i use
love your work!!!
That is really nice,good job on that,instant subscribe.
I enjoyed watching your video, and would like to see whether you could design a real time motor or generator for a ebike or ev . Thanks for sharing your experience.
Please, is it possible to make a video of how to make the stator and how to wind the wire? I will be very thankful to you.
How would you say the performance to weight ratio is conpared to a normal brushless motor?
Wow, nice! Halbach and backplated just in case ;) I am trying to find best configuration for the linear pm generator. This gives me hope! May I ask for your suggestion for the project of mine at my channel (last video)? Thanks for sharing and keep it coming!
P.S. What do you mean by placing the iron at inner and outer diameter?
P.P.S. is it me or this could be more efficient if it would be driven in a pulse way? I see some amps jumping every time you start it? Or is it the ampmeter that is going nuts...
I made alternator like this. It was 4" diameter, rotor 16 pole 1/2" x 1/2" x 1/4" thick NdFeB magnets spaced 1/4" apart. Backing for magnets was 3/16" thick steel. Magnet rotor was set in machined aluminum pockets. Stator was 12 semi-triangular coils , non overlapping, embedded in 3/16" thick epoxy-fiberglass circuit board, pocketed out on circuit board miller. Generator was 10 ohms phase-phase & 120VDC (rectified) output when running at 3000 RPM. This was driven by Honda 4-stroke 1HP weedwacker engine running at idle. power output (feeding through world-wide power supply) produced 12V at 80W for charging military equipment in the field. Weight of entire package (engine, alternator, power supply, gasoline for running 3 hours per day for 2 weeks) weighed just over 15 pounds.
The military does not have SMALL portable generator units like this for use in the field. The last one I saw was unit with 2-stroke engine making 120VAC 400Hz 1 phase made for use during the Korean War, weighing about the same.
Awesome video! We're all learning :)
Why the air core? I understand the core losses, but the gains far exceed the losses, especially at low KV/rpm. Thanks for sharing.
Have you seen the kollmorgen servo disk motor? Its pretty amazing, look it up to get some ideas.
This is awesome. I finally found someone like me on TH-cam Lol. You know i have been experimenting with motors for a while too. I made few motors using the tools you have and i failed and succeeded. I am not even an electrical engineer (Mechanical instead) but some how ive fallen in love with motors they are so coooool. However, i stopped designing and building motors i think a year ago because suddenly i needed a metal CNC mill (To build motors) and the 3D printer wasn't sufficient for my needs. So i tried buying one and it turned out that they are so damn expensive but then i found people that build their own cncs and there are many open source designs out there. As mechanical engineer, i love machining. Seeing makers from the community have encouraged me to design and build my own CNC and i am still working on it. As i was working on designing the CNC, lately ive been thinking of designing a very capable 3D printer from scratch too. So as you can see, ive deviated from the motor field just to make tools to help me make better motors Lol. I hope i won't forget why i made the tools in the future Hahaha.
Anyways, the last thing i remember experimenting with motors before i abandoned them was casting a stator using epoxy resin mixed with iron powder to make a ferromagnetic core. You see i was using the Protopasta's iron PLA but it sucks and it always broke when i tried to wind the stator because the filament is brittle. At first i tried to cast just small rectangular blocks as specimen (60% iron/ 40% epoxy). They were way stronger then pla. The only problem was that as the epoxy was curing, the powder sunk to the bottom of the block. So at the end one side was more magnetic than the other.
So i have 2 suggestions for your design,
1- Try the above (iron powder/epoxy mix)
2- The motor was turning funny because of the 3d prints i think? It kinda felt flimsy. Always use pla as it is the least flexible material. Level your bed and i recommend using glass for the bed.
By the way what program did you use for simulation? Maybe do a video about it?
Good luck!
Similar story here. I am a software guy, I am also at the point of needed a CNC. I have about 90% of a MPCNC printed and assembled, but I have no idea how it will perform. Check out the forum I have linked in my description. I have made a bunch of custom tools to get where I am.
The ferrite cores are my next step as well. I have also heard about the sinking issue, but I have not really explored this too much yet.
Also, I do use PLA and my bed is pretty level, I have struggled to identify where things are out of alignment
I used FEMM and a custom piece of software that I wrote. I will likely do a video about this in the future.
One on each wheel would make a great electric commuter car, on dry roads of course. You are a modern day George Westinghouse.
You have inspired me! Thank you so much!
Very good. this is an idea i had for some time, i'm gonna build mine too
Very nice, good work.
Do you have info on the Halbach array/ magnet configuration and coils of your axial flux motor?
Or if you know any other web resources that has good info on this things.
I might try build a similar motor and see if i can manage to make a good one.
@colbyjohnson2344 where do you buy the skinny magnets for making the Halbach array?
Wow. Thank you for sharing!
Just awesome :) !!
Don't you think you could get laser cut parts for the discs you mount the magnets on? It should be easy to find a reasonable thickness in some steel with enough permeability. The only problem I see is that you would still need some precision outer rims to get the disc perimeter absolutely flat.
Also - it would be really cool if you could somehow measure the torque vs electrical power efficiency!
The back iron on the rotors are laser cut steel 1.6mm.
I will definitely get torque efficiency measurements and post them when I can
"Man walks on the moon"....lol
Nice work, interesting project, subbed 👍
That needs dynamic balancing.
Six very small BRASS grub screws on radial axes close to each edge (three per edge at 120 degrees) of the outside rotor surface should, in theory, help you get there. Good luck.
Well, time for me to go learn about what makes these so special.
I recommend Protopasta's iron filled PLA for motor core design, it prints like PLA but I recommend using a stainless .8mm nozzle instead of a .4 brass one. I am currently also building an experimental motor that has unique operation.
You know.... I have a roll of that sitting around still from a while ago. I was going to make ferrous cores, but that might be a really easy place to start. I have a .4mm steel nozzle. I'll try that. Thanks for the suggestion.
th-cam.com/video/TfBWD1vP3hQ/w-d-xo.html
Hi @Anthonyleggio4877, Did you complete the print with iron filled PLA? How is it working, can I try it for 3D printing Axial Flux alternator?
I know this comment is super old, but I had to try asking anyway, when you say motor core, do you mean the Stator?
Nice work! Subscribed. 🙌🏼
Hi Colby super interesting topic love it. I suggest picking up a chines mini lath for a couple hundred bucks you could easily true up those critical faces on your printed parts with it. Turning plastic takes no skill at all and there are lots of resources online, not to mention its a ton of fun. Something like a G9729 combo Mill Lath would be optimal if you can afford it and have the space.
Thank you for the suggestion. I have no knowledge with machining, but I would love to learn more. My biggest issue at the moment is not having enough space in my shop. It's already getting pretty tight, and I have virtually nothing to work with metal.
Mercedes is making a similar one for a future car. You should try to run a shaft through the center of the stator, and put a rotor on either side, with the stator in the middle. Double the power with very little size increase.
Fantastic motor !
Nice work man!
nicely done... you need to find someone close to you who has a little machine shop like me. the precision and rigidity of machined parts would eliminate a lot of your problems.
Very nice project. Any idea on what torque this motor is capable of?
Wow the possibilities seem endless. Power to the people. Thanks for sharing this with simple enough explanation
th-cam.com/video/TfBWD1vP3hQ/w-d-xo.html
Master!! Keep going!
You would be interested in checking out a new motor concept that produces a high power to weight ratio motor.
It's called a "raxial flux" motor as its design uses a combination of both radial and axial fluxes.
The resulting motors weigh 30kg and produce 330 BHP ; 250 Kilowatts.
Yes I have heard of this, conceptually the idea is not worth pursuing with the design I have made, but I am really interested in the high power to weight ratio. I also think something like a "raxial" would be difficult to DIY, given that I think it would need to be an iron core, which may require a very specifically shaped yoke.
You can print two halves of a mold to use ferrite powder and slow-curing epoxy to make excellent diy ferrite cores.
Gota feel good you conceived engineered and developed a functional ptototype
What a cool project.
Would you be down to make one for an ebike ?!
Can you extend the center shaft and add an alternator, in the same design of your invention unit which will convert your generator into a Synergy motor.
This way you will not rely on large batteries for the main source of power.
Wow!
Should try experimenting with Litz wire too.
Love your project, thanks for sharing. Would your design be suitable to slow speed applications such as robot arm joints?
At this size it would spin far too quickly, but it could be geared down. I have made a planetary gear set with a 5:1 ratio, but being plastic, it's not great. Certainly made it torquier though
nice work man
Thank you for making this video, very interesting to see what you have accomplished. I have also made 2 styles of axial flux generators. 1 is a 24 volt 1000 watt generator and the other is a 48 volt 3000 watt generator, both are for wind energy recovery. Very similar to yours with the copper coils in resin and the magnets. Yours however is much more refined and uses very tight fits and tolerances. Keep with it.
I have been thinking this type of drive might be good for use in a hub motor and wondered if you have considered that as a good application for the technology.
Cool! Thanks for sharing.
I've 3D printed a part and then machined smooth surfaces onto that part afterward.
Nice work. All you need to do now is to refine the making process.
Nice… good job
Great job! I was thinking this for last 2 years as an e-bike motor project; especially the part about how to implement hallbach array into the axial flux motor.
How did you manage to make an hallbach array? did you order the magnets with a special order?
I did not have to special order. I bought them off of k&j magnets I believe. They only have imperial measurements so I had to just work with that
Have you considered making stator using PCB (printed circuit board) technology? You can get windings pretty close and accurately positioned. You can use multiple PCBs connected as layers
yes, but I believe these types of motors would struggle to carry a large amount of current, and given that there needs to be gaps between the traces, I think a hand wound motor could be more power dense. I have seen a bunch of PCB motors lately and they are cool, but I have not seen any that claim extraordinary power outputs.
I do think that PCB, or shaped ribbon cables could certainly improve the cost and time to manufacture. I bet there is a certain market and a balance that could be achieved there.
Nice build. I was wondering g what kind of coils though.
The motor on my channel was built to satisfy my curiosity only. It uses three coils with 4 turns per coil and 12 poles per coil. It's an axial flux faulhaber wound coil with a cogless iron core, or rather backing.
Take a look at the flux pattern design on the Zero electric motorcycle as they did a lot of R &D on it
Enjoyed your video. Nice hobby. Hope you make something out of it.
Nice project
Great work mate! Liked and subbed👍
You might have dips, or uneven highs and lows on the base plate of your 3-d printer that are causing your prints to be uneven or not straight. A remedy might be place your base plate on a perfectly level table top and pour self-leleveling 2-part epoxy over it and allow it to cure into an absolute flat surface. The table must be precisely level. Epoxies like those meant for kitchen countertops might work well. Also by drilling holes through spark-plug feeler gauges you can use them as leveling washers when reinstalling the base plate. However, I don't know if you can print directly on the epoxy. You'd have to experiment. It may require another substrate like butcher block paper covering the base to prevent heat pitting of the epoxy during prints. Probably not in my guestimstion.
interesting ideas. I would be curious how the epoxy would hold up on a heated bed, but maybe epoxy is tacky enough that you dont need the heat at that point. Thanks for the suggestions
Thanks for a really interesting video :)
Nice work! 👌.Subscribed to your channel!
Great work! Could you please report the inverter unit model used to drive the motor? Thanks!!