Great content! Yeah, you just have to go into the process knowing that the first prototype never works right. But you learn something, which informs the second. Etc. You'll get there.
4:49 If the axis of the windings are not perpendicular to the face of the magnets they oppose, aren't you losing a lot of magnetic coupling? Like probably sine or cosine of the angle you put the windings at?
Am so glad to see all your iterations of this setup😅i am just getting into making my own axial flux motors and love your experiments, like i said in previous comments i would love to help you with this, I have a $10,000 Tig welder and a metal lathe so would love to help you advance this if you need 😅
Dunno what your progress on the mold has been, but I would play with a rigid shell / mold that a thin hard silicone liner is keyed to. My thought process is that there'd be very little in deformation from your "pressing" method this way. Also putting it all in a pressure pot to shrink the air bubbles is a good idea too!
Great CONTENT; subbed ! Could you cover your tool-chain, simulations (flux, heat, flex) ? Seems a lathe/CnC would be key to the tight tolerances this design prefers ?
Hey bro just a thought. We know that neyo mags have a stronger but smaller field compared to ferrite. What if you used 24 neyo and 24 ferr. I have no clue but it could make the field larger while keeping alot of its strength.
Interesting. This is not something I have heard of before. Do you have a source for this information? Thanks! Also, I would think given the close proximity of the two rotors, and the number of slots on my stator, that it would benefit from a smaller, stronger field rather than a larger one.
@@colbyjohnson2344 there is no source bro. Ferrite magnets hold a weak large field. Neyos hold a strong tight field. I just figured mixing them might extend the field and keep some of the strength. Maybe not. I have no way to measure. Like where would you even start?? I see your timings, spacings, geometry is calculated. I don't doubt it. You make great content. Thank you.
nice motor's but not sure these are so much the classic axial flux design as your coils seem a bit more traditional, have you tried to take copper coil and flattening the wire to lay on top of itself per wrap, similar to like how a 3d print layers itself. you can pull round wire between two rollers and it will flatten and is controllable enough to get nominal diameters, or widths.
I also want to build something like this. Could you please share it's documentation so that I can learn it's working principle and construction procedure.
What's the point of using large and small magnets next together? They should be arrange NSNS... arrangement, if large and small magenets have different magentic flux strength then it will just cause unnessary torsional vibrations due to different argular force between them.
@@colbyjohnson2344 Great! Thanks for the work and the response. I look forward to seeing your results! I'm considering combining this approach with a planetary traction drive for a project I've been slowly working on.
I wonder why did you use a 3-phase scheme if there is no angle shift in 12N24P scheme? All your slots are at a same angle to poles. It's a wasting of MOSFETS imho
Really great work..! I was admired of this I was going of my own after watching your video. Can you please help in performing distributed winding what you shown in thus video at 4.49.
I have not made a build video yet because I kept changing the design. But I will make one soon as I perfect the resin stators. I abandoned the 3D printed ones as they were too flexible and difficult to wind
Great overview of design changes. I wonder why you resign from 3D printed stator core. Was it because it was difficult and/or time consuming to wind it? Maybe you wanted to make stator thinner? I'm in the process of designing fully 3D printed low, max 500 rpm, axial flux motor but acting as generator/alternator with cycloidal serpentine winding and not layered one as in your design.
3d printed core is not stiff enough on its own. And ultimately takes up room where there could be copper. Using an iron filament might help, but I don't think it's worth it given my design. But yes the goal is to make everything as thin as possible. Which is also why I did the overlapped windings. Getting the RPM as low as you want it will likely require a lot of magnet or copper. Each has its drawbacks. I'm very curious to see what you come up with. Good luck! And thanks for your interest
The "yoke" in a traditional motor, it what the windings are wrapped around. In a "yokeless" architecture you have windings around individual segments which are fastened to the center in another way. The important part is that the segments are magnetically separated from one another.
Well, that's actually how I got started with all of this. Essentially a motor like this can be used as a generator. Would just need to rectify the AC with a 3 phase full bridge rectifier. I have done this to test it a bit with some LEDs. For real voltage though it would need to be wound with more turns. I will likely make something like this in the future. Love the K'nex wind turbine by the way
While your winding your stators? I find that after the first phase, I wind up at the point where the end if my bundle of wires now meets the beginning of the wire. How do you terminiate this? are they both ends combined and soldered into one cable or what
For a Star winding pattern, which is what I am using, one end of each phase (the same end for each phase) needs to be connected together. Then the other end of each phase are what you connect to the controller. I usually solder the three phase wires together inside the stator before potting with epoxy. But you could connect them outside too. This could give you the option to switch between delta and star winding patterns if you wanted
@@colbyjohnson2344 I 3d printed your model and realized that the mold is for much more teensy magnets. My magnets cane from hoverboard motors, so they are 20x15.3 mm and I had to resize it in tinkercad to 170x170 mm and I dropped the thickness down to 5 mm. So, I am a wee bit excited to see how this will turn out. I have lots of 0.5mm and 0.27mm wire to make litz out of. BUUUUT, I would like to figure out a way to recreate your litz winding machine, one that is a little bit faster, Since space is a mahor constraint for me, it has to be small. aND i dont want to iuse kinetics or what ever they are!
@@MaxChillen Awesome! I would love to see how yours works out. I will eventually remake the litz wire machine, and I might try to shrink it more on the next version. The Knex are a great prototyping tool honestly. I have found them very helpful. But obviously they introduce a lot of design constraints. I will likely not include the Knex on the next version.
I used litz wire for the high frequency of operation, but the winding pattern is really very similar to a typical axial constructions, but instead of using individually wound coils. They are overlapped. This allows more to be squeezed into a smaller area. This would usually mean sacrificing some thinness, but the way I wind things keeps it all pretty flat. Basically I believe that this winding pattern could lead to an even more power dense electric machine. And there are many other design decisions that I have made to lean toward a high power to weight ratio with an air-core, which generally I believe is difficult to achieve
@@colbyjohnson2344 I'm just new to this topic and my first experience was reading news about YASA motor on Rolls Royce airplane and Ferrari and I think they use ferrite cores in the winding, so your winding was totally different from what I knew, interesting!
@@matteoricci9129 Yes ferrous materials are traditionally used as a core for radial or axial flux motors. Using this will "focus" the magnetic flux. However it introduces inefficiencies, like eddy current losses in the ferrous material, and cogging. By eliminating the ferrous material. I am aiming to reduce losses. I believe similar power can be attained in axial flux motors like mine that use dual opposing rotors. As long as they are close enough to make the flux lines bridge between the two rotors. This would depend on the magnet strength and size.
check out this forum. I have been posting how I have been making these for a bit now. I am still changing things as I go. endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=111345&p=1696649#p1696649 Thanks for your interest!
For what i am doing i really could use a hand and a setup like that. And another coil i will talk aboit if anyone is up to helping. I have a very nice machine requiring a setup
I would love to see a video of you making a winding with this 3D printed tool. This chap made them by hand with a single Litz wire strand it looks painful: th-cam.com/video/RiiP5mDVqLo/w-d-xo.html Have you considered 3D printing the stator winding mould and simply leaving it in place as you embed the whole thing in epoxy?
Yes I have considered that method. However the wire does not like to stay compressed. So I typically wind the stator, pop it off, then put it in a press where I pour in the epoxy and clamp it down. Check out this forum. I've been discussing this build in detail endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=111345
Great content! Yeah, you just have to go into the process knowing that the first prototype never works right. But you learn something, which informs the second. Etc. You'll get there.
4:49 If the axis of the windings are not perpendicular to the face of the magnets they oppose, aren't you losing a lot of magnetic coupling? Like probably sine or cosine of the angle you put the windings at?
Nice work on the design and build. 👍👍👍👍👍😁
Am so glad to see all your iterations of this setup😅i am just getting into making my own axial flux motors and love your experiments, like i said in previous comments i would love to help you with this, I have a $10,000 Tig welder and a metal lathe so would love to help you advance this if you need 😅
Was so glad to find you😅
Thank you, Koenigsegg Is using this technology , interesting and informative 👍 😀
Theirs is slightly different 😂
Cool, thanks for sharing your project!
copper windings looks sick!
Dunno what your progress on the mold has been, but I would play with a rigid shell / mold that a thin hard silicone liner is keyed to. My thought process is that there'd be very little in deformation from your "pressing" method this way.
Also putting it all in a pressure pot to shrink the air bubbles is a good idea too!
Thank you for your educational videos.
Hello Colby Great work! I have a question do you have any books that you use specifically for the axial flux design of motors? Thanks in advance.
Thanks for taking the trouble for sharing
Great CONTENT; subbed !
Could you cover your tool-chain, simulations (flux, heat, flex) ?
Seems a lathe/CnC would be key to the tight tolerances this design prefers ?
You mentioned problems with your back iron, but didn't specify what the problem was. Curious to know what the challenges are with backing iron.
Hey bro just a thought. We know that neyo mags have a stronger but smaller field compared to ferrite.
What if you used 24 neyo and 24 ferr.
I have no clue but it could make the field larger while keeping alot of its strength.
Interesting. This is not something I have heard of before. Do you have a source for this information? Thanks!
Also, I would think given the close proximity of the two rotors, and the number of slots on my stator, that it would benefit from a smaller, stronger field rather than a larger one.
@@colbyjohnson2344 there is no source bro. Ferrite magnets hold a weak large field. Neyos hold a strong tight field. I just figured mixing them might extend the field and keep some of the strength. Maybe not. I have no way to measure. Like where would you even start??
I see your timings, spacings, geometry is calculated. I don't doubt it. You make great content.
Thank you.
It was looking at your 24-24 set up. That make me think this.
What is your mic on this video? Sounds good
nice motor's but not sure these are so much the classic axial flux design as your coils seem a bit more traditional, have you tried to take copper coil and flattening the wire to lay on top of itself per wrap, similar to like how a 3d print layers itself. you can pull round wire between two rollers and it will flatten and is controllable enough to get nominal diameters, or widths.
I also want to build something like this. Could you please share it's documentation so that I can learn it's working principle and construction procedure.
Check out the link to endless sphere in the description for more info on how I built it. Ill be making a build video in the future
What's the point of using large and small magnets next together? They should be arrange NSNS... arrangement, if large and small magenets have different magentic flux strength then it will just cause unnessary torsional vibrations due to different argular force between them.
Look into halbach arrays
Amazing👍
Thanks for this! What kind of Max torque are you getting from latest builds?
Not sure yet. I just completed the newest motor using the rotors at the end of the video. I should have numbers soon
@@colbyjohnson2344 Great! Thanks for the work and the response. I look forward to seeing your results!
I'm considering combining this approach with a planetary traction drive for a project I've been slowly working on.
It's not going to be big on torque, mainly high RPM.
Can you make a video on how you did the winding and the math behind it?
I wonder why did you use a 3-phase scheme if there is no angle shift in 12N24P scheme? All your slots are at a same angle to poles. It's a wasting of MOSFETS imho
Excellent!
Really great work..! I was admired of this I was going of my own after watching your video. Can you please help in performing distributed winding what you shown in thus video at 4.49.
I do intend to make a build video eventually
Do you have a video about the winding of the stator?
I have not made a build video yet because I kept changing the design. But I will make one soon as I perfect the resin stators. I abandoned the 3D printed ones as they were too flexible and difficult to wind
Can you show how you are winding your stator in a video?
Great overview of design changes. I wonder why you resign from 3D printed stator core. Was it because it was difficult and/or time consuming to wind it? Maybe you wanted to make stator thinner?
I'm in the process of designing fully 3D printed low, max 500 rpm, axial flux motor but acting as generator/alternator with cycloidal serpentine winding and not layered one as in your design.
3d printed core is not stiff enough on its own. And ultimately takes up room where there could be copper.
Using an iron filament might help, but I don't think it's worth it given my design.
But yes the goal is to make everything as thin as possible. Which is also why I did the overlapped windings.
Getting the RPM as low as you want it will likely require a lot of magnet or copper. Each has its drawbacks. I'm very curious to see what you come up with. Good luck! And thanks for your interest
Hi @blackredroll, Did you make any progress on the 3D printed AF alternator with serpentine coils?
@@SanjaySharma-ov1kf I put this project on hold.
why not do a PCB stator? That seems like the future
I would love to, I've thought of layering shaped ribbon cables. Only worry is current limitations with the traces. Otherwise, I think its a great idea
Mix the 3D printing resin with graphene to make it stronger so it won’t bend.
can u share the filaments u used for thes models.
All of the models in this video were made with PLA. I think it was Overture
Cool.
I have a question, what means that a brushless axial motor is yokeless?
The "yoke" in a traditional motor, it what the windings are wrapped around. In a "yokeless" architecture you have windings around individual segments which are fastened to the center in another way. The important part is that the segments are magnetically separated from one another.
@@colbyjohnson2344 Thanks
Hi, Your work on the axial flux motors is very good. Do you sell these motors?
No I do not sell these yet
@@colbyjohnson2344 Thanks Colby, Please keep me in mind when you are able sell them to as I require 2 AFMs
Instead of a motor, how good are you at making generators??? Please let me know, I'm currently working on wind devices.
Well, that's actually how I got started with all of this. Essentially a motor like this can be used as a generator. Would just need to rectify the AC with a 3 phase full bridge rectifier. I have done this to test it a bit with some LEDs. For real voltage though it would need to be wound with more turns. I will likely make something like this in the future.
Love the K'nex wind turbine by the way
@@colbyjohnson2344 I have alot of ideas about energy, and I seek the Holy Grail, would you care to join my cause at Camelot?
While your winding your stators? I find that after the first phase, I wind up at the point where the end if my bundle of wires now meets the beginning of the wire. How do you terminiate this? are they both ends combined and soldered into one cable or what
For a Star winding pattern, which is what I am using, one end of each phase (the same end for each phase) needs to be connected together. Then the other end of each phase are what you connect to the controller. I usually solder the three phase wires together inside the stator before potting with epoxy. But you could connect them outside too. This could give you the option to switch between delta and star winding patterns if you wanted
Is there any formula to find the required number of turns,Selectio of wire Gauge,Determination of Kw
There are ways to estimate these values but I used a program called FEMM to simulate my motor, which gave me a value that I could expect in reality
@@colbyjohnson2344 sir, where can I get this software ?
Hi there i'm working on a small hydro plant and i need some help with the generator design! Can you help me :)
Do you have any video explaining how do you turn the wire on this late video
Not yet, but I will make one hopefully soon
@@colbyjohnson2344 okay, thankyou man
Are you a reno native? Send Cut Send is here too :)
I am not. But it's an awesome service
can you make your winding jig stl public maybe in thingiverse? or somewhere?? I am greatly interested in axial flux devel;elopement myself
Go nuts :)
www.thingiverse.com/thing:5332267/files
@@colbyjohnson2344 I 3d printed your model and realized that the mold is for much more teensy magnets. My magnets cane from hoverboard motors, so they are 20x15.3 mm and I had to resize it in tinkercad to 170x170 mm and I dropped the thickness down to 5 mm. So, I am a wee bit excited to see how this will turn out. I have lots of 0.5mm and 0.27mm wire to make litz out of. BUUUUT, I would like to figure out a way to recreate your litz winding machine, one that is a little bit faster, Since space is a mahor constraint for me, it has to be small. aND i dont want to iuse kinetics or what ever they are!
@@MaxChillen
Awesome! I would love to see how yours works out.
I will eventually remake the litz wire machine, and I might try to shrink it more on the next version.
The Knex are a great prototyping tool honestly. I have found them very helpful. But obviously they introduce a lot of design constraints. I will likely not include the Knex on the next version.
Hi, do you sell these motors. I needed a few customised ones.
Sorry, no I am still developing it. maybe in the future though
Pl give me coil direction of 12 coil stater three phase axial flux bldc motor
Why did you choose this Type of winding ?
I used litz wire for the high frequency of operation, but the winding pattern is really very similar to a typical axial constructions, but instead of using individually wound coils. They are overlapped. This allows more to be squeezed into a smaller area. This would usually mean sacrificing some thinness, but the way I wind things keeps it all pretty flat.
Basically I believe that this winding pattern could lead to an even more power dense electric machine. And there are many other design decisions that I have made to lean toward a high power to weight ratio with an air-core, which generally I believe is difficult to achieve
@@colbyjohnson2344 I'm just new to this topic and my first experience was reading news about YASA motor on Rolls Royce airplane and Ferrari and I think they use ferrite cores in the winding, so your winding was totally different from what I knew, interesting!
@@matteoricci9129 Yes ferrous materials are traditionally used as a core for radial or axial flux motors. Using this will "focus" the magnetic flux. However it introduces inefficiencies, like eddy current losses in the ferrous material, and cogging. By eliminating the ferrous material. I am aiming to reduce losses.
I believe similar power can be attained in axial flux motors like mine that use dual opposing rotors. As long as they are close enough to make the flux lines bridge between the two rotors. This would depend on the magnet strength and size.
@@colbyjohnson2344 I think you chose wisely: th-cam.com/video/RiiP5mDVqLo/w-d-xo.html
Can you help me make one like this?
check out this forum. I have been posting how I have been making these for a bit now. I am still changing things as I go.
endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=111345&p=1696649#p1696649
Thanks for your interest!
Will this act as a generator too?
yes it will! I intend to make one at some point
For what i am doing i really could use a hand and a setup like that. And another coil i will talk aboit if anyone is up to helping. I have a very nice machine requiring a setup
I would love to see a video of you making a winding with this 3D printed tool. This chap made them by hand with a single Litz wire strand it looks painful: th-cam.com/video/RiiP5mDVqLo/w-d-xo.html
Have you considered 3D printing the stator winding mould and simply leaving it in place as you embed the whole thing in epoxy?
Yes I have considered that method. However the wire does not like to stay compressed. So I typically wind the stator, pop it off, then put it in a press where I pour in the epoxy and clamp it down.
Check out this forum. I've been discussing this build in detail
endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=111345
1pis odar
Ippppppp
Wainding dikhaye