ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 เม.ย. 2024
- I continue on my quest to build my own e-bike motor. This is probably the last prototype motor I build before going for the real deal!
.STL files on Printables: www.printables.com/model/5499...
Some clarifications and amendments:
*An extra note on the geometry of the stator - The involute stator design also allows the stator to have more effective copper area in it (especially if concentrated windings are used)... I cut that part out from the script because the video was already starting to get pretty long...
*A little definitions mistake also snuck in: Technically every permanent magnet and reluctance motor is a "synchronous motor" (the electrical rotation is in synchronous correspondence with the rotor rotation)... The definition of synchronous in this video differentiates between motors where all generated electromagnet poles are exactly in sync with the magnetic poles of the rotor, rather than not (for example BLDC motors which have more- or less permanent magnets on the rotor than generated electromagnet poles)
*A clarification on how exactly reluctance motors work: I nearly completely gloss over the explanation in the video but generally you can think of it in the following two ways; Reluctance motors work based on magnetic circuits. Because air is poor at "conducting" magnetic fields (it has a high reluctance), then if the rotor is made of material that the magnetic field lines would take preferentially (low reluctance), then the lowest energy/steady state of a magnetic circuit is where this low reluctance material is as aligned to the applied magnetic field as possible. Now, as the electromagnet poles in the motor move (the higher intensity magnetic flux regions move), the magnetic flux lines are no longer properly aligned with the low reluctance material in the rotor. Since this is not the lowest energy state/steady state for the system, then it produces a torque on the rotor to align it back towards the lowest energy state, which is where the reluctance rotor poles are exactly lined up with the electromagnets, thus making the rotor move along with the electromagnet poles.
Another way to think about it would be that since the reluctance rotor is made of materials that have high permeability (permeability is inversely proportional to reluctance) then the material itself becomes a magnet as the magnetic flux passes through it (just like electromagnet cores become magnets). Since the electromagnet pole and the pole generated in the rotor are opposing polarities then they attract, and as a result as the electromagnet pole rotates, it pulls the rotor along. This second way of explaining it is roughly what I tried to quickly convey in the video too, as I believe it to be much easier to understand.
=|Featured Videos|=
• Electric Motor Winding...
• Understanding electric...
• Understanding electric...
=|Links|=
Back iron flux lines images (and there's lots of good information there):
things-in-motion.blogspot.com...
=|Music|=
(0:10-2:51) "Smooth Waters" - SergePavkinMusic
(3:00-5:36) "Documentary" - Coma-Media
(5:38-7:33) "Graze the Roof" - Plants vs. Zombies OST
(7:53-8:53) "Kawaii!" - Bad Snacks
(9:14-10:46) "Bittersweet Waltz" - Sir Cubworth
(11:09-12:34) "Lost in LoHI" - DJ Williams
(13:10-13:57, 14:17-15:22) "Energetic Indie Rock" - Oleksii Kaplunskyi (LesFM)
(15:37-16:28) "Orient" - SefChol
=|Chapters|=
0:00 - Intro & Motivation
0:54 - Axial Flux
1:26 - Synchronous
2:07 - Reluctance
2:46 - Stator design
4:26 - Windings
5:33 - Construction
6:20 - Electromagnet cores & back irons
7:40 - Project rediscovery
8:07 - Sensors
8:49 - First run (failed)
9:35 - Fixing the mistakes
10:44 - "Moderate" success
12:10 - Permanent magnet rotor
12:35 - Success!
13:46 - Measuring max speed & kV
15:22 - Future, Files & Outro - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
I hope you enjoyed the video!
You are brilliant. Maybe the design can use CRnGO laminated sheets and ferrite magnets ?
TH-cam has again deleted my subscription from you ....
i like your take on using the curves. i was using 8 layer pcb to make the windings and using through holes to get the magnetic flux lines short enough.
www.ata.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/marand_high_efficiency_motor.pdf
Oh, you didn’t mention it but reluctant motors (induction) motors require slip speed between the field and the steel to create the eddy current and hence the back emf.
Your magnet plate was matching the speed of the rotor so no slip speed and no drive.
Reluctance and induction motors are not the same type of motor.
I'm probably not the first person to say it - but we learn more from our mistakes than from our successes. Your next design will be better - and the process repeats. Well done for completing the project - which is a major achievement, regardless of how you perceive the outcome. Thanks for the videos. Stay safe out there.
Engineering is an iterative process! It also humbles one to not think that everything is easy to do.
The greatest teacher;
Failure is.
-Yoda
so true... my projects never even get to the stage that looks that pretty. maybe id finish more if i made them look nice and complete, even if prototype
stay safe out there is really good advice which i wanted to give too
yeah I spend more time trying to prove myself wrong than just about anything else and I've actually become really good at proving myself wrong over time.
when it comes to axial motors, at least on youtube - very few try a new design. great job!
I really like your involute stator design. The reasoning makes sense and seems like a good way forward.
I would like to point out however that every BLDC motor, permanent magnet or reluctance, is a synchronous motor. They all rely on the stator magnetic field rotating at the same speed as the rotor magnetic field. The stator field is always advanced in relation to the rotor field, as if they were aligned the torque would be zero.
As you well know, on asynchronous motors the stator magnetic field always have a higher speed than the rotor magnetic field, and the slip is what produces torque.
Commercial motors are called "Synchronous reluctance motor" or "permanent magnet synchronous motor" just to differentiate them from asynchronous (inductance) motors.
In reality, every PM BLDC motor is a PMSM. If that was not the case, Field Oriented Control would not work.
But regardless of nomenclatures, please keep up with your ideas!
Thanks for pointing out the definition mistake! Yes, it's a little bit confusing. I have added this point to the pinned comment along with the explanation of what I considered as synchronous in the video instead.
I'd like to thank you for a wonderful comment. My faith in an intelligent Humanity has been restored.
Just a word of appreciation of your experiments with motors. It is interesting and hoping you'll get nice efficient motor one day out of these experiments
Holy smokes!! This is one of the coolest engineering + 3d printing things I’ve ever seen!!
Congrats!!
Basically, the amount of attention to details editing this presentation alone has had deserved my subscription.... Thank you for sharing your process in such detail. As it has greatly helped me along mine (Albeit mine is not really a motor per se).
I have grown curious of the rest of your videos... This one was definitely a treat.
Thank you
Awesome explanation, awesome design, awesome ideias and awesome content. I discovered your channel today and I'm in love with it
This is so cool, thank you for sharing your work with the world!
Amazing work, No matter what's the result, the honor to make the experiment it's a success
keep it up
This project is awesome, its fun to see it progress. Cant wait for the ebike video!!!
amazing project! i am really looking forward to your bike motor video!
Nice video! I think it'd be possible to replace the iron parts with iron powder-infused resin. That way, you could just pour the iron resin where it needs to go instead of cutting and bending steel. You'd also minimize eddy currents since the resin is non-conductive. You could also take it further and replace the resin with metal-filled 3d printer filament, although it'd be more expensive and wrecks brass nozzles.
The magnetic filaments for 3d printers are very poor magnetic materials - the steel laminations I made are far superior in terms of magnetic permeability. Any powder-based core is going to have poor magnetic permeability in general. In practice, as far as I am aware, powder-based magnetic cores are used in high-frequency inductors and inductors where you want a very clean release of energy... basically in places where you want to minimize eddy currents but don't care too much about the other magnetic characteristics of the core material.
I already have an idea for how to make the stators better in the future.
@@BirdbrainEngineerno eddy currents, yes, but more importantly in hf applications you NEED low hysteresis (which metallic iron and steel lacks), ferrite cores are a necessity in hf applications, the eddy currents are more of a bonus.
Ah yes, hysteresis losses was another reason for ferrite cores... couldn't think of it at the time. But yeah, I'm absolutely not well versed in high frequency applications, there's a whole load of new stuff I'd have to learn first.
You don't need iron core at all by converting windings into PCB stator then there is no problem of Eddy currents and Steinmetz losses
@@BHARGAV_GAJJAR PCB stators are not suitable for high load applications due to fairly poor thermal characteristics and low current density compared to wire windings or better yet, hairpin windings.
TH-cam recommendations never cease to amaze me with amazing videos like this one!
Loved this video! I'm quite understudied on all of this but watching you process through this was really exciting and I love the design you created. Thank you for including your mistakes too, they offer a ton of encouragement toward pushing forward despite the innumerable and infuriating setbacks that are bound to occur in one's projects. My penchant for mistakes is seemingly unrivaled.
Learned so much. ^^
I think this is very impressive. Well done!
Awesome design! I haven't seen involute coils like that before, but it looks great. Much easier to DIY than radial flux motors. Especially if you use thinner steel sheet so can stack them up with glue and clamp between two cauls to create the shape rather than having to individually press bend them. And make non-stick spacers that half-fill the slots so you just pack as much wire in as you can, hit with CA, and then pull the spacers, leaving perfectly sized slots for the neighboring coils.
such a joy to learn this stuff! thanks
I really like how you demonstrated the different type of commutations. Also great job on the rest. That's a lot of work!
You're so good at explaining and making things easy to parse, plus your nails are so pretty
THIS, is engineering. the application of science to solve a problem. if more people realized what engineering is, im sure many would be intersted.
Hey Birdbrain, make a note of this... the thinner the iron core, the less eddy currents you will have to deal with. Eddy currents will cause you to lose efficiency and will produce more heat as a result. Overall, you've made an AMAZING build for an axial flux synchronous motor. Keep up the great work!
That is true, yep! My goal wasn't to minimize eddy currents this time... but for the future I have a stator design in mind that should be great at minimizing eddy currents.
Also, the eddy currents can be used to move something like an aluminum wheel. Just as an example to illustrate the point, if one were to rotate a set of magnets arranged in alternating north/south alignments near enough to an aluminum plate/flywheel mounted on an axle that plate will rotate and there will be less overall heat in the original system from the eddy currents. An eddy current is basically an opposing force in the opposite direction and can be used to do work. I've been looking at this as a sort of capture system to capture the extra force generated when a magnetic gear slips due to too much input torque. Here is a video demostrating the basic priciple - th-cam.com/video/wYNMpRUAuyY/w-d-xo.html
Axial flux generators work better without ferrous cores so cogging doesn't happen
Wonderful process. I don’t know much on this but it’s fascinating.
Very nice! I've been making a motor for a pc cooling pump, and landed in about the same axial configuration. I used permalloy sheet cut into iron slots, but it worked without core as well. It took me about half a year to build a working pump.
Now I am building a blower turbine for air cooling, rotor printed already, but had no inspiration in developing it further. Now I might have it, thanks to you.
Please dont stop, dont dumb things down. Even if it seems like dumbing it down would make it seem like you'd get more views in the short run, leaving it as is will build you a fanbase of people that like the complexity and believe me, you dont see alot of videos on youtube that go into this much detail. You're fulfilling an unmet need that so many people like myself have. You could leave the more complicated titles (so people like me can find videos like this easier and more directly) but put a dumbed down thumbnail with a more appealing title (still in the thumbnail) to also draw in people who may like the content but got scared by the title like I almost did.
The best of both worlds!
Keep doing what your doing and doing what you enjoy even if it isnt what youre already doing.
Youre doing great, I hope you keep doing great, and I luv u.
Kisses.
awesome video! I am looking forward to your next designs sis!
Thanks! ❤️ Will be doing a couple other projects during winter but early spring will be the time I make a real effort for making that e-bike motor :D
Wow! What a video, you are quite the teacher, keep on going with your amazing and very hard work my friend, I would absolutely love and appreciate new videos. I’ll make sure to share this one around :)
that loop/curve is also present in a lot of celtic knot art
thanks for making this its quite interesting its similar to a idea i have had for a telsa turbine shaped ionic continual pulse engine
This is nuts that this is able to work, I just wanna share my admiration. I'm just sitting here knitting (very slowly) and impressed by how much people can make with 3D printers
epic video. I think it's great that even if things go south with the project, you can still make a video about it and somehow it's even more interesting than a success story.
Just discovered you through the recommendation gods known only as "The Algorithm" and frankly I'm annoyed I hadn't found you sooner. This is exactly the type of stuff I love to see and your designs, prototyping, presentation and editing is all amazing. I hope more people are able to stumble across your works, not just because you deserve bigger recognition but also because it's genuinely great content that people would enjoy if they knew how to find it.
I look forward to seeing how this progresses, but for now please excuse me while I go watch your entire backlog
ᵃˡˢᵒ ᶦ ˡᶦᵏᵉ ʸᵒᵘʳ ᵖᵘʳᵖˡᵉ ⁿᵃᶦˡ ᵖᵒˡᶦˢʰ :)
This take me back when I was on college, I did as well a generator that uses eolic energy as input to the shaft, in that time I made the parts using a laser cutter and wood and bought a 3D printer to make it better, but the wood prototype was enough, I graduate from school, and 2 years later I finally work again on this project with cleaner parts from the 3D printer, I'm not an electrical engineer but definitely found fun in doing this type of projects, great video, good day to you.
This was worth a subscription!
You did a great job.
Amazing!and very educational
Pretty awesome! Thanks
👍Interesting idea and informative content!
great, thanks for sharing 👍
Completely awesome!
This is an awesome video .
I am certainly no expert and really learned a lot from the clip. Thanks! One of the issues I thought happened about 3:18, 3:28, 3:37. All these pictures show cores with metal wrapped with a wire strand. Each core is designed to fit next to another using a ratio of winding/steel core. No spaces are left in between to maximize magnetism. When you built yours, it seemed the winding/steel-core ratio was way different, and the plastic housing took up 50% of the space. Next time, take the design at 3:18 and measure the weight/mass of one steel plate. When you build your curved plate, ensure you have the same amount of steel per core. Then when making your wheel, build a 2mm curved slot for the steel sections to sit down into. Remove all the plastic barriers. I would recommend making a smaller easier-to-build motor with fewer cores. Failure is normal, make it easy to build and learn, then build again. After you get it working well, then make a bigger, more core model. Anyway, my ideas...
I think your engine is great thanks friend
Great job!
I hope you return to the involute design some time in the future, it looks like an intriguing design that deserves to be explored further.
Thank you for making a video of you fabricating a 3d printed motor. Seeing your video is inspiring me to dust off my original Radial Flux design and see it through to completion. Stay classy.
its a great concept and i believe in your brilliance
Gorgeous
really excite to see where this goes ! i want to make an ebike myself ^~^
I'll be going for the e-bike motor and e-bike build based on the motor only some time in the first half of next year, as biking in the winter is a bit meh :P
@@BirdbrainEngineer yeah that's fair, even in the winter i still wanna start biking more though, and having an ebike i think would really help a lot with that
Nice work. Subbed
Nice video! Any thoughts on the Koenigsegg Raxial-Flux Motor?
Excellent
I loved your GD moment!!!
This is a really neat project. I imagine a layer of insulation between the sheet metal plates would reduce eddy currents.
It would, the laminations were made simply because it was easier to construct the parts that way. But I do have a lead on how to construct the stator next time to reduce eddy currents by a lot.
Loved this video
Amazing project! Very well done. What was the rotor to stator "pole count" for your SRM version?
The stators have 18 slots, and since I used distributed windings, then divide that by 3 to get 6 individual magnetic poles. Hence the 6 segments in the reluctance rotors, as each generated magnetic pole is to be paired up with a pole. Also something I did not touch on in the video is that the generated poles on both the stators have to move in sync with one-another, as well as have opposite polarities exposed... this would make the magnetic flux lines flow from one to the other synced up stator pole, and the reluctance rotor between them would further enable an easier path for the flux to "flow", which is how an axial flux reluctance motor is supposed to work.
Ok keep grinding your halfway their
Just subscribed. I can't wait to see more. Great video❣️ Thanks.
Excelente explicación 👍
Loved your painted nails ❤
Thanks
I learned so much in 15 minutes thanks to your years of effort exploring your curiosity.
I have finally built my electric bicycle and it is fun passing people on the highway while going 45-50mph (70-80kph) I have my motorcycle license for this amount of power. I just wish I had a motor controller that had regenerative braking, not necessarily for recovering energy but primarily for stopping. My bike with its 3000 watt hub motor and its 72volt 40amphour battery weighs in at an earthquake generating 101lbs (46kg) and that with my 200lbs (91kg) traveling at those speeds the brakes for bicycles are being consumed like warm butter on a hot sidewalk... They don't make breaks for bicycles that reliably dissipate that amount of kinetic energy.
If you put resistors on the motor terminals it will brake, the lower the resistance the more it will brake but do not forget that this can heat up the motor
@@user-ud3qq8lb5v thank you.
The simple explanation of axial flux and synchronous motors followed by "reluctance is.... uhhhh........" was so real
Thats cool ma dude, I am suscribing
Distributed vs concentrated coils depends on stator/pole ratios. It shouldn't be decided based on other goals. It's simply what needs to be a full pitch span of coil.
I was worried about delamination during your RPM test. You're braver than I getting an FDM part to 7200 rpm, ha. Great video!
I do all the initial tests for motor max speed behind a sheet of metal and not looking at it directly. On other motors I usually find that the speed is not too bad so I ditch the protection but not with this one haha.
its amazing how axial or rotor still 365 herts AKA 360 degrees or a circle equates to 120 which is the current degree seperation of a 3 phase power producion system today. which is 1/3. I would try using air core as in no core.
Building magnetic stators that work & work efficiently is no easy task. From taking stators apart the main rules are that the laminations have to be packed tightly, are not able to move against each other, and of course are varnished to create the electrical isolation barrier. They also need to be reasonably thin and made out of the right kind of steel.
Very innovative project👌. Can you suggest this concept can be converted to make axial generator with maximized magnetic field distribution?
Unfortunately pure reluctance motors can not be used as generators. However if you meat whether a proper involute design brushless motor could be used as a generator then I'd imagine so, however it might not be as good as a generator with the standard layout... would have to do some simulations.
Very nice effort! Welldone.
I would need two of them for my wheelchair. 😂
Would probably have to be a bit more robustly made as well :P
This is awesome . . . the achilles heel to the Axial flux motor IS the dependance of large mafnetic requirements . . . . there just isn't enough know deposits of approriate rare earth to powe the potential need of this motor type . . . . . a great achievement. The next step is to find ways to increase the efficiency as reluctance motors are always less efficient.
Good job, congratulations. It is inspiring.
I don't know how this channel hasn't got hundreds of thousands of subscribers. Let me feed that ignorant algorithm.
Haha thanks! It's much appreciated and needed... TH-cam's algorithm seems to be working in a very flawed way nowadays - previous 3 videos I have uploaded have been doing awesome for *exactly* the first 21 hours after upload, and then the impressions rate suddenly gets nuked to be like 10x+ lower than it was literally minutes before, despite all of the metrics staying good and promising... I am guessing that the algorithm is currently built to literally push a video hard for only the first day as it's "fresh", and then it discards the video in favour of new "fresh" content. Pretty bullshit if you ask me, especially since this doesn't seem to be the case for large channels - their videos stay being recommended for weeks usually...
This is genius!
cool! i like the bend, I don't understand it much but i feel that a cycloid drive is supposed to give & take power/torque with stepping the magnets
I wonder if you pull started with the original rotor or used a sawtooth timing wheel if it would work. ~30rpm from your fingers is most likely out of the tq curve of a 7200rpm motor.
Very nice! Great job! You were able to figure out how to get full power to the speed controller?
Using the battery, the ESC is able to pull up to 40A before the voltage starts to drop significantly... At those amperages though, both the ESC and the motor itself would overheat very quickly, so I never really pushed it that far.
many thanks for this valuable information
I can't believe I'm seeing a dude on TH-cam design his own axial flux motor. Im happy I'm living in a time of great technological change. This decade is going to be a wild ride and it's going to be exciting unless the nukes start flying.
i only understood 15% of the process how the motor works but i loved it haha. :D
Awesome.
14:55 so you made the world's biggest motor for a 7,200 rpm hard drive, well done.
One suggestion is to find a local metal shop to cut your metal strips.
Impressive work ! 👍🏻
That is one strong motor you made
You are awesome.
Interesting !😊
wow wow wow. plz don't stop
absolute legend - and nice nails hehe
nice video amazing
Cool project! Maybe laser cut parts could be a decent intermediate scale alternative for widely available and affordable production access besides 3D printing
The next step that would be significantly better than 3d printed parts (and thus worth going for) would be metal parts. So either metal laser cutting, plasma cutting, or (cnc) milling. None of those methods are that widely available nor affordable unless you yourself have or know someone who has such a machine. The e-bike motor I will still try to make in such a way that nearly anybody could replicate it "easily". Though at one point I do intend to build a cnc mill capable of cutting mild steels.
@@BirdbrainEngineer Laser cut parts are pretty easy to order online.
Hello friend!
I've played around with turning car alternators into bldc motors. You can see what I came up with on my channel.
But I was working on a design for a helical toroidal flux bldc motor, but had to move. Link to my printables designs in my channel page.
I am really loving your 3D printed designs! And your need to use distributed windings for smooth operation had me thinking of my helical toroidal flux motor.
very very cool
I dont understand this, but it looks really cool. Good luck with it, this reminded me of the "dark matter" electric motor Koenigsegg made.
I find it funny that the motor happens to spin about as fast as a hard drive.
Very impressive. I am curious what the ESC sends to the motor, and if it is the same sequence as for a BLDC. You also mention there is no back EMF, does that mean this can't generate power or be used for regenerative braking?
A reluctance motor, as far as I am aware, can't be used for regenerative braking or as a generator, yeah. The ESC is tricked to work in "sensored" mode, and so it sends the 3 phases exactly as it would into a bldc motor.
In fact reluctance generators are kind of a thing, they're called flux switching generators. Apparently the main application is as the electrical power source for guided missiles. They still have field magnets, but they don't have to be on the rotor (which just looks like a toothed wheel).
@@nerd1000ify I am looking for the generator method that has the highest power to weight ratio for a hybrid drone I am building. Ideally, easily controllable voltage output over a very wide range of conditions and very light. This type might have benefits over BLDC
@@TheSorterswhat's your power source? I know there are hydrogen fuel cells intended for use with drones. Which saves you a lot of moving parts and potentially weight.
@@oliverer3 my gas engine weighs 2 kg and puts out 5kw or 7 hp. No fuel cell would come close to that hp/weight ratio
This is fascinating, simply explained and very professional.. Surely the design of the motor should consider the type of energy cell and regeneration that is going to be considered.
Very interested to know your opinion. The high speed is ideal because you will use an epicyclic to reduce the speed thus increase the torque. You shouldn't give up with this design.. Thx....
I bet two of those doubled up as one one motor would do well on an ebike. It would need decent torque to move one, though. I don't know too much about them, though, to really speak on it.
How did you do the inlay of the motor cover/ housing? Its beautiful!
Haha thanks! It's the same involute shape as the stators, simply criss-crossing in both directions :D
I have been using blender so far for making my models... but that era is about to end, as I need to be able to produce .step files before long, so I am learning to use FreeCAD... Animations for the video I will always continue making in Blender though.
@BirdbrainEngineer I meant the purple inside of the orange. Does your printer have a multi filament capabity?
Ah, thought you meant the geometry of it. I simply printed a groove into the cover, and printed the purple color separately and then pushed it into the groove in the orange part.
It's very well done. Would you consider doing a video on that and other 3d printing techniques you use? I know it'd be off-topic of your normal videos, but it's very well done.
5:40 thanks for credits given to bg music
awesome video! really good production quality, extremely informative, one of the most informative Iv seen in a while, and just ingenuity at its finest with all that math and good understanding of the motor and its physics! EDIT: also Im just curious and i doubt this comment will get seen but how do reluctance motors induce a back emf/ resistance of some sort to the input voltage. all motors of some sort have some sort of back resistance because as rpm increases output power increases and thus input voltage and current draw should also change. or if there is no back emf or anything how would a motor like this work or what shape power chart would it produce?
:D I think, the uh, iron inserts for the rotor would be making noise since it's loose. buuuuut, I think you could make a dye press out of wood levers and 3d printed parts.
also I think designing your own esc with visual feedback, as hard as it is, would help you see what's happening, and adjust everything!
I considered making a diy FOC unit... but fuck me there's a lot to it if I want to make something that actually works properly haha. Definitely would have to be a video on its own and I'm not sure if and when I'd do it.
@@BirdbrainEngineerhave a look at simpleFOC of you haven't already, it's pretty cool!
I always wondered if one of these speed based clutches would make sense on an ebike motor.
Like a centrifugal clutch? It's possible. Even electric motors can benefit from some sort of transmission. These things produce torque instantly, so they're basically all or nothing. EV cars do have a transmission of sorts- even the single speed gear reduction of a Tesla is basically a transmission in simplest form. Otherwise they'd be direct drive which has limitations, and that has been a discussion in the ebike community about direct drive versus gear drive hub motors for a while now.