Vietnamese Mig-21Bis Vs F-4E Phantom Mod | Digital Combat Simulator | DCS |
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So of course the F-4 is a mod and is not an official module in DCS but it has a modified flight model in an attempt to make it behave like an F-4 not just an F-15, I just think its a good opportunity to discuss these aircraft and their roles in history. That's why you see me using Mods from time to time and the Mig-21 F-4 fight is one of the most Iconic fights of its time and I think it was really missing from the channel. Please keep in mind I am by no means a good Mig-21 guy in DCS so any and all tips please share below and if you're looking for the F-4 mod please see the video description. Big thank you to everyone for all of your support and hope everyone is staying safe. Much Love.
can you make a video of f-35 vs j-20?
First I click the like button without watching it .Thanks for responding to my comment and making this video bro.
Worth subscribing.
Love the collab with you and Longshot! You guys are the best! Thanks
I'm surprised cause I've always heard the problems with the F-4 how it did so well though I beginning to understand why they were considered good fighters.. one thing though he was behind you and hard to see why did you use the rear view mirror a bit more..it looks like it gives a good shot of your rear.
@@hawkeye3573 thank you sir
my grandfather was a composites engineer at Mac on the F4, I always grew up seeing this plane as 'The Plane'.
My grandfather was also a composites engineer for MAC that’s wild
My grandpa flew the f-4 phantom in Vietnam!
@@pdubs5381 That is pretty cool! My grandpa told me that every plane they shipped had custom wrenches that would come with each plane because every ship was just a little different in some ways, and would need them for maintenance. Sort of cool that maybe your grandpa flew a ship that mine helped build
My grandpa was alcoholic and beat my grandma
@@GuilhermeOliveira-ml3cj oh my phantom
This isn't the story War Thunder would tell me.
War thunder's flight models are usually incorrect. In my experience the only good ones have been: the F4u4s, be 109, some of the fw 190s and a couple others.
Playing sim in War Thunder be like: if turn rate isn't superior in the stat card = hard time. But then you remember that the stat card isn't correct all the time.
moral lesson: Phantoms dominate both real and virtual skies, besides wt.
Gaijen = Russian bias that's why.
I wouldn't agree. GS said,that biggest problen for MiG is getting slow. That is true for WT as well, a 180° turn and you go from Mach 1 to IAS 400.
However, in WT MiG 21 gets R-60 (compared to K-13 here) and has no rear visibility problem (RB), so a reversal is easy and usually results in a dead Phantom. And even in this setting best tactic for MiG is to hit-and-run.
See old videos of in MiG 21 F-13 vs F-4C. One, maybe two turns MiG was winning but after that the Phantom just had the energy advantage.
Finnaly,.comparing mouse control and outside view to a simulator game (let alone reality) with stick,.cockpit etc. (assuming you don't play sim mode in WT) makes no sense.
The F-4 is so famous I don't know why Eagle Dynamics didn't add it in yet.
They're working on it but they've temporarily put a complete hold on development as of like a year ago so they could allocate more devs to different projects
I would absolutely love an F-4. Which variant though? I would prefer an F-4E for Yom Kippur War and 1982 Lebanon war scenarios with the Syria map. You could probably get close to an F-4C by simply removing the ammo for the cannon too. The F-4, Mirage-IIIC, and the Mig-21-F-13 are the planes that I would love in DCS. Forget the F-16, give me those old ones, please.
@@thathumanhayden2979 USAF F-4E. Look it up for more info
I think it's because many countries still use it and so they wouldn't give the data they needed...customers first
@@JagdgeschwaderX uhhhhhh, you could say that with many many vehicles in DCS bro
AOA management with the Mig-21 is a fine balancing act because of those small wings and no Fly-By-Wire system to hold your hand. I find with the Mig-21 that you have to keep a close eye on the AOA meter to the front right all the time. If you start going more than a little into the yellow section, you start loosing a lot of speed and when you get close to red you are basically aerobraking hard and throwing your stability all over the place.
Its a good idea to keep the AOA outside the yellow zone and not go for desperate moves or become impatient, as staying outside the yellow AOA zone will let you keep your speed and eventually reel your opponent in.
great tips man thank you. I'll keep that in mind for the next video.
@@GrowlingSidewinder You can try flying with ARU set on Automatic setting. Its simple device that keeps you from exceeding critical AoA. It makes dogfighting in MiG much easier.
@@rossmum Interesting. I always had for some reason ARU on Manual settings defaultly. I know that same people use Manual setting to get better turning performance, although dogfighting on Automatic settings feels much easier
@@davidkopecky6687 Aru only changes the controls saturation linearly with speed and altitude, that's all it does. It's a very straightforward device, it doesn't limit AoA. Manual is a good way to tear off your wings though.
Maybe the MiG21 is particularly susceptible to energy bleed at high AoA but thats a good thing to keep in mind for any fight/any jet! In fact one of the golden rules of BFM!
1: Lose sight - lose the fight
2: Manuever in relation to the bandit
3: Trade Energy for Nose Position wisely (to kill or survive, gain or deny a WEZ).
'He bravely ran away..away!'
'When danger reared it's ugly head,
'He bravely turned his tail and fled..'
When in danger
Or in doubt
Run in circles
Scream and shout
Brave Sir Robin!
I Never!!
Reminds me of the advice given to US pilots in the SW Pacific when encountering a ZERO in the early days of the war flying P-40s & P-39s. Hit them from above driving thru the formation, then keep on diving, and run to fight another day. Don't try to dogfight a Zero.
It is a crime that nobody has made an official F-4 mod for this game; should have put the Rhino in long before the MIG-19. The MIG-21 without the F-4 is like Joker without Batman or Lex Luther and no Superman.
It's like a story where there is no antagonist/protagonist
You mean the opposite, I suppose... ;)
Agreed. Far too much focus on super modern aircraft when imo all the fun and interesting aircraft are from the 50’s and 60’s. F-4 would be great, but arguably where’s the F-100 and F-105?
People flock to the F-18 with its guided munitions etc but honestly there’s nothing like flying a Viggen over a target and just smashing the entire area with Mk.82’s.
@@timmy3822 It's like getting a dogfight kill in the F-18 and getting the same kill in a MiG-21. One of them you feel good about, the other you feel like you're a damn ace, the best there ever was.
@@candle_eatist The MiG-21bis is ridiculously good fun to fly. Flying it with the radar off loaded with IR missiles and being sneeki breeki in the valleys waiting for prey to show up. Amazes me how many people don't look down with their radars too, or if in a flight are all looking in the same area. I've managed to zoom up from the deck below a formation before now and bag a couple of them before they know what's up because they're simply not paying attention.
It's even better when you get somebody who disrespects the MiG, it's old but still has a few tricks up its sleeve. Those are the best kills.
I was a Fuel Systems Specialist on the F-4E & G Wild Weasels at George AFB from 85' - 89'. It guzzled fuel like no other but I loved it. Air Force proved they can make anything fly with big & powerful engines .
The first live breaching I did outside of the schoolhouse was in late 2000 at what used to be George AFB. We were basically cut loose in the old housing area where we practiced cutting doors and walls. During one of our breaks a guy who used to be stationed there rolled up and started asking what was going on. He was an F-4 pilot stationed there in the late 80s and wanted to check the place out as he and his wife passed through the area. He told some really cool, as well as hilarious, stories while we chatted. I always loved the F-4, so it was cool to talk to a Phantom driver. He made a point to compliment the maintainers and was quick to point out how hard you all worked so he could do his thing. Anyway, your comment reminded me of that interaction. I hadn't thought of it in years, and wish I could remember his name.
@@lancet.346 _ This past week I was telling my friend some stories about my time with the Weasels.
I watched one land with 3’ of air refueling boom stuck in the jets receptacle that’s located on the backbone just behind the back seater. They tried for the longest time to get it released but the jet liked it too much so the pilot had to make a dive and sheer it off.
One more story that is similar to the previous. While flying to Korea I was in the tanker and our jets were following us being refueled constantly. During one of the refuels I was awoken by a crew member of the tanker saying they needed my assistance because one of our birds wasn’t locking the boom into place in order to receive fuel. We were exactly halfway between Hawaii and California. No fuel meant pilots would be ejecting. I was like WTF you want me to do, slide down the boom to the jet? That was because I had already confirmed with him that standard procedure of checking switches and breakers had been done three times already. By the time we got to the back of the plane it had fixed itself. The extremely cool part was watching each jet hook up, bounce around while taking fuel, releasing with a big spray of fuel, that jet drops a bit, rotates 45 degrees and disappears, then immediately another slides in from opposite side and is hooked up & filled up in no time at all, then watch the procedure repeat.
Thanks for sharing your story and hopefully mine wasn’t too long. I could go on and on.
Have a good one
@@kippnashleymiller3752 I laughed out loud! "Slide down the boom..." That's good. I've been in helos during aerial refueling, but never got to see it from inside the tanker. That's got to be so cool. I bet that was pretty stressful, too. I'm glad that crew didn't have to go for a swim. Take care, man. Thanks for sharing that story.
@TrueKen _ You’re correct they got cocky thinking they didn’t need guns guns guns. I was in the 37 TFW and we had E’s (gun under nose) and G’s (Advanced Radar under nose). Their were a few birds with red stars painted on them marking the number of kills. I know for sure we had one Ace and thinking we might of had two Aces. It’s been awhile.
The 35 TTW had F-4’s and slOw V-10’s. I always thought flying an OV-10 was suicidal.
The you for your service!🇱🇷🇱🇷🇱🇷🇱🇷
The MIG21 has such a great like, retro-sci-fi look to them. I love em
I love you too
@@MikoyanGurevichMiG21 you're the OG
agreed, its ugly but sexy at the same time
@@squidwardo7074 it's absolutely not ugly sir, Mikoyan/Yakovlev/Sukhoi planes are gorgeous
@@moonage_ mig 21 is ugly, sure the modern ones look good
The F-4 is the fighter my dad flew in Vietnam. The F-101 Voodoo also
Thats awesome
👏💯 respect to your dad
That's awesome!
Respect
Thank you for his service
My grandpa was the pilot flew Mig 21PF ( number 4324 ) in Vietnam war , his name is Nguyễn Văn Cốc . He was shot down 9 fighter and 2 UAV in Vietnam War .He is a legend in Vietnamese AF and a great grandpa with me :)
Aslo Vietnamese AF wasn't have Mig21bis . Your video is great but you need to find out about us a bit . Love :3
Yooooooooo I once made a request for a F4E Phantom vs F-14B tomcat this is going to my next request I'm calling right now
It is necessary.
Its necessary fight
I agree with you guys it is very necessary
VERY
Hi Growling Sidewinder, thanks for a great video again. Finnish former MiG-21Bis pilots often discuss lowering flaps to give the aicraft significantly better turning rate. If my memory serves me well that caused a similar flap jam problem as what you raised up with the Tomcat. Much appreciated if you could show us how much a difference the flaps deployment makes in DCS world. Thanks!
A great idea brother thank u I will look into that
The flaps in the MiG 21Bis are spring loaded, so you can't overspeed them, they just get pushed back into the plane, if you watch Romanian Lancer air demos on youtube, you can see on some of them they use the Flaps for low speed maneuvering, once you drop to 400kph indicated deploy them, and they allow you to dip past 33 AoA a bit without tip stalling. Needs to be used with emergency burner to make up for the excess drag.
@@rossmum I was also wondering about that, since they behave a bit like a Yaks flaps, although you have 2 settings on it, but obviously it doesn't use the pneumatic pressure, and what I've read said they were tied to the hydraulics, and the ram for them is right in front of the flaps and in the center on the BIS varient
Congratulations on your 300 Video GS :) Keep it going !
didnt even notice this was number 300 thank you man. much appreciated.
Growling sidewinder I recommend reading a book called Red Eagles. The book is about the American pilots who used to fly mig 17's, 21's and 23s. But my point for bringing this up is, contrary to what most people think about the MiG-21(that it is only good at high speeds and can't fly at low speed) it's best characteristic is how well it can be controlled at low speed flight. DCS's flight model for it seems to be incorrect at least based on everything I have readand heard from pilots who flew it irl. One pilot in particular even said that below 100knots he still was able to point the nose wherever he needed it, which you can definitely not do in DCS. But every pilot who has been interviewed on podcasts or in books have always spoken about how well it flies at low speed. I wish the makers of the MiG-21 module would address this even if only slightly because currently the flight model is definitely not all correct and it could make my favorite module even better. Anyways I love you vids and glad your flying out the 21 regardless.
It is actually true, in DCS especially with the BIS model and it's high thrust to weight ratio with emergency afterburner though to my knowledge the US didn't test any BIS versions. with emergancy after burner, and if you use take off flaps, you can succesfully slow fight with even F-5s and F-86s in game. it's interesting watching a F-5 eventually plow into the ground in a scissor fight, because he just didn't have the power to keep it in the air. It requires a lot of practice and discipline though
and here i was thinking damn all these mig 21 videos, it's a shame that there's no phantom in the game to make a video matching the two, somehow GS always manages to read my thoughts
I'm going to be honest. When I first started watching your videos, I'd skip to the dogfight and to missile splashes. Now after a couple days I'm fascinated by the history u give about the aircrafts, and your analysis As you play. Well done man
Same here!
I like how the Phantom does that lagging technique when he's chasing. He pulls up in the vertical and rolls out to prevent from overshooting.
3:38 that low "THUD" in the distance was so satisfying!
Love the history snippet on the front end. Really gives it some good context. Awesome work gents...
Operation bolo has 54 F4 Phantoms taking on a dozen mig-21 fishbeds.
54 vs 12... What aircraft was going to come out favourable when outnumbered 4-1?
And that's pretty much how the war was. Only a hand full of migs compared to hundreds of opposition. If the numbers were reversed the F4s would have to play the same hit and run game.
Yep.
Do some real research before spewing more BS. Only 12 of the F4s were actually engaged in the fight so both sides strengths were relatively equal in the battle. It wasn't literally 54 phantoms swooping down on 12 migs Jesus christ.
@@cattledog901
12 engaged means 12 opened fire. That doesn't mean you discount the others in the air, because they still add to the numbers.
If you include only those (as perhaps I should have) which participated directly in the air fight but didn't open fire the numbers are still 3-1. That doesn't mean 3 F4s all fire missles or guns at 1 mig. It means the migs have no options because everywhere they turn there is a enemy ready to flank them. And even if they did get away, the rest of the F4s were waiting to shoot them down before they landed.
A good ambush is designed not to give the adversary a chance to fight...and that's what operation bolo did. That's why there were 54 F4s involved and maybe only a dozen migs. In order for the migs to come out favourably they would have had to best the F4s that were in hunting them 3-1 and then best the rest.. that's 4-1 odds. No aircraft at the time can turn that around.
The rest of my statement stands. Only a hand full of migs against hundreds of opposition aircraft (That does not mean 6 migs constantly met 100 enemy aircraft, it means they aren't readily replaceable dictating hit and run tactics).
I love that I discovered your channel. I really enjoy the historical commentary, the ambush on this one was fantastic, as was the low speed handling characteristics and subsequent losses.
thank you man glad you enjoyed.
You like history here's some interesting history for you, lol plus a request for Growling Sidewinder.
@@GrowlingSidewinder During the Korean War a U.S. Sea Fury shot down a MIG-15! Again during Vietnam, two separate occasions of U.S. Skyraider's shot down two MIG-17's!! These unconventional interesting events would be Most Entertaining if you could Semi-recreate these historical dogfights! Dogfight Request-- Either P-51 or A-29 Super Tucano VS Either MIG-15 or MIG-21
Either the P-51 or A-29 bc no Sea Fury or Skyraider... however the MIG-15 did have the historical honor of actually being shot down ;)
Pro tip - put the flaps down on the MiG-21 and it will substantially even out the odds in a rate fight.
interesting thank you for the tip man, i'll give it a try in the next fight.
Plus you can't overspeed the flaps either they just push back into the wings since they are spring loaded. Also make sure the emergancy burner switch is on and bring the fight below 4000m so you can get the better engine performance. You actually have better power to weight then the F-4. Lose the 6 missles, 4 max, 2 is better. Work the vertical exclusivily, this is the BIS not a F or FL, PFM or even a MF model. Your too heavy as the BIS to try for the turning tactics that would work for them, and don't try to pull your nose around first, you'll bleed too much speed. You' ll out vertical rate fight him after a few circles, but be careful not to tip stall by pulling too much aoa, that will bleed all your energy.
I remember Chuck's Guide said to never use the flaps to turn tighter. The airbrakes however do help in a rate fight and can be very useful in forcing an overshoot. There is no harm in trying the flaps though.
That Human Hayden that’s very strange. The airbrake can force an overshoot but in a rate fight it’s just going to bleed your speed. Flaps will increase turn rate at the cost of more speed bleed, but less than using airbrakes.
@@thathumanhayden2979 airbrakes are good for causing a overshoot, flaps are good from preventing you from ovetshooting and then maintaining AoA at low speed. In mig 21 lancer airshow demonstration vids you can see some pilots use takeoff flaps for low speed manuvers. While I love chucks guides, for the MiG BIS it's a little bare bones.
As always, loving the content man.
Honestly what I'd love to see is if you put up something properly ancient like the Mig-15 or F-86 against the most modern aircraft which you think it could still have even the slightest chance against in a dogfight.
I'd reckon the MiG-15 would probably be the better choice between the two after seeing previous videos due to the slightly better turn rate as well as the more powerful armament when compared to the tickle-me-Elmo .50 cals on the F-86.
Never seen an F-4E carrying 12 AAM's before XD
The f-4 had a big bomb load, its not out of the question.
@@moo9557 never got LAU rails on the outer hardpoints for carrying missiles. Bomb ejector racks yes. Missile pylons no.
@@theScottishKoala I'm fairly certain that all F4 phantom varients could carry AAM's in high capacity.
@@moo9557 Four Radar, four infrared. Which is comparable to the F-15A.
The radar's performance in look-down situations is looking awfully sus right now.
Great vid. I learned to fly F-4D at Homestead AFB with MiG killers in 308th TFS. Flew F-4E (3TFS) at Clark AB, RP before transitioning to F-111F. Btw, dad flew F-101B at Suffolk County AFB (2nd FIS) with WWII ace Col Francis Gabreski as wing commander
I was stationed at Homestead from 1973 to 1980 (1942nd Comm Sq), use to love hanging by the flight line and watching the F-4's take-off.
I was stationed at Homestead '78-79 with Army IHAWK unit HHB 3/68th ADA. PT in the mornings close parallel to the runway and it was awesome to watch the F4s take off with the fire from the afterburners lighting up the morning then disappearing in the distance.
@@Dieselbuilder My father-in-law was the Army Command Sergeant Major during both your and my time at Homestead, his name was Alex J. Blackwell Jr. You might remember him, he had big red birthmark on one side of his face and neck.
Robin Olds was the man behind the fakeout that pulled the Migs into a fight that they weren't built for. Dogfights did an episode on him years ago. He got his start flying P38s in Europe, if memory serves.
Nice F-15 vs MiG-21 comparison lmao
F-4 paint scheme at 1:17, "Showtime 100" piloted by "Randall 'Duke' Cunningham".
RIO Willy Driscoll
Showtime 100 of VF-96 “Fighting Falcons” from the USS Constellation (CVA-64)...
Randall “Bribery” Cunningham
@@MustangsCanTurnToo Yo, man. He fucked up and payed the price of corruption. But that doesn't taint his accomplishments in the Vietnam war and being the first Navy ace of the war
@@wessex8031 k
Used the tactics used by the Vietnamese. Raise the plane(MIG-21) to a great height and in sinking attack the F-4 with K-13 missiles.
@@-Zevin- -- Well, point of fact, it absolutely DOES prove that the F-4 was superior. At the beginning of the F-4's service in Vietnam, it had a near perfect performance... shooting everything it aimed at out of the sky, with zero losses in air-to-air engagements. This was because it was designed to shoot its missiles from a stand-off position (its opponents were being shot out of the sky, without ever realizing the F-4 was even there). Then, because of a couple of "friendly-fire" incidents, the U.S. pilots were given an R.O.E. requiring them to visually identify their targets, which put them within a radius that made their missiles almost completely ineffective. Couple that with the fact that none of the F-4 pilots had been trained how to dogfight AND the fact that their plane didn't even have a gun! However, by late in the war, the U.S. had corrected all of those short-comings (giving their pilots dogfighting training, installing a gun on the F-4, and teaching their weapons handlers how to avoid incorrectly assembling the plane's missiles), all of which led to total air-superiority once again, as the F-4 proved to be an excellent dog-fighter against everything the Vietnamese had in the air.
That first fight was exactly what the NVA did. They would pop up, fire and run. Every time
It helped that they had a home field advantage.
“The Migs came up, they were aggressive….we tangled…they lost.” Col Robin Olds…leader and mastermind of Operation Bolo.
I’m literally loving those mig-21 vids, even it’s a very very difficult aircraft to dogfight.. still a pleasure to fly ahah
It absolutely is a challenge but so damn rewarding. Every time I fly that plane in game I just smile. The small wings make it extra fun to fly about 60 ft in the air and damn near scrap the ground doing rolls and such.
@@arguywindham1101 Pilots in rl loved it also. Unlike MiG23 for example.
@@TheGranicd i read that the wing sweep on the 23 had to be set manually i imagine that was a pain for the pilots. I believe that one of the module developers was supposed to be working on a Mig 23 for DCS. I hope we get that one in the next year or two.
Based on your history I can see why people were keener to fly F4s than F105s! This series of fights though really shows what a disadvantage the lack of rearwards visibility was for the Mig21 (and presumably the Mig23 too).
Great story telling and narrating combat tactics employed. Great cinematography, too! Respect!
thank you man.
Wow dude you're absolutely pumping these videos out, MAX RESPECT.
"And we are bravely running away.. "
As a Mig-21 Aficionado.. I could tell the exact moment you were going to loose that second fight lol
They do not like getting into turn fights. It's either "Boom and Zoom" or don't even try.
Love the Mig21 videos. Such a classic shape and incredible power but very difficult to apply.
So basically the 21 is just like a jack in the box. It's great at popping up and surprising you, and literally nothing else.
Would love to see you do a video on the F4’s use of the Secret “Combat Tree” technology and the impact it had on Vietnam’s Air Force Combat planes.
I read about that MiG sweep where the Phantoms pretended to be Thuds in a GREAT book for aviation enthusisasts - Boyd. Subject is Col. John Boyd, the father of modern combat aviation, the guy who invented OODA, the guy who got the F-16 into reality, and just a general odd duck.
I feel like the Americans looked at the MiG-21, thought to themselves: "Yeah, we can do that better" and proceeded to develop the F-16.
In military things the soviets and Russians have a boiled down mentality. They made shit until the mig29 was out in numbers. I doubt it can knife fight with a viper.....however let a pilot let down for 30 seconds in a viper to v 29.....that is all he will need. Don't get caught unaware.
Nice tactical barrel rolls by Longshot.
An actual maneuver that was utilized by American fighter aviators and pilots especially during Vietnam that allows you to stay in trail of your adversaries while minimizing the dreaded overshoot.
Love the “we’re bravely running away” bit.
I was a USAF crew chief in the 1980's and worked F-4E's at Ramstein AB in Germany. I was assigned to Phase Docks while there which kept me out of the lousy German weather, and we got to do more in depth maintenance than the guys on the flightline did. Hell holes, tit panels, phantom bites and stress panels, those were the days.
oooo baby a new vidro from GS!!! Love da videos you make man!
The amazing thing is that I was searching for this fight just yesterday... thanks Growling Sidewinder!
The Mig-21 appears to have a rear view mirror. Any chance of using that a little more effectively to maneuver against him on your 6?
Ehhh the mirror is really only good for making sure your drag shoot deployed. It's visibility is not as bad as he's making out, if a bandit is on your dead 6 you've already made several bad mistakes.
@@crazygmanssimstuff exactly, and taking the time to look at the mirror is just giving you less time to move, just always assume that he is on your six if you can't see him in front of you.
@@rossmum yeah in dogfights i've never had problems with rear visibility in the MiG 21Bis, but then i'm used to flying WWII planes in IL-2 like the La 5 or the early non- bubble P-47D, or the BF-109 E, F, and G variants with the armored metal headrest.
My grandpa flew f-4s in Vietnam and did those exact type of missions. He shot down many planes and never took a single hit.
DCS aint complete without my most famous foe. I've got so many stories with this flying brick of a beauty.
A great and rather illustrative vid as it is the norm with you Growling... I would love to see a Mirage IIIE/5 or even a IIIC so we can experience the 60, 70, even the 80's (Angolan conflict) in such a popular platform as the Mirage was. Keep up the good work matey and farewell.
I still love the MIG 21. It's a beautiful plane
Back when I was finishing up my time building year at a flight school in Sanford Florida, I use to fly down to Melbourne Fl for short cross country with students. There was a private Mig 21 trainer that was in prestige condition in a hangar. One day I was able to speak with the owner and he said he was going to sell and find a mig 15 or mig 17. He said the Mig 21 had too short of legs and more than once he had to declare min fuel in order to get priority. He said, I know you think it’s poor planning but 30-40 min of flying out over the water, and coming back to Melbourne to find 5-6 student pilots shooting instruments approach plus people doing touch and goes... he said he could end up another 15 min trying to be vectors into a visual approach that would overrun most aircraft.
I’ve read similar accounts of Mig private owners finding the aircrafts speed vs it’s range require far greater planning and having a higher proficiency than operating a Mig 15 or 17.
@@bret9741 the best MiG is easily the MiG-19
@@moo9557 I have alway felt that way but without any personal experience.
Dude, it's hideous! Very dangerous little plane tho :D
@@fubaralakbar6800 it definitely is ugly, and that's funny because all the MiGs before and after were really good looking aside from maybe the MiG-23
I’ve never commented on your video, but this video is something I had always wanted from you. Thank you. I am sim player in War Thunder
Can you do one with a C-17 loaded with paratroopers against a Su-57?
Man, oh man - even as a dedicated MiG-21 flier am I ever looking forward to the F-4's release. A fighter just isn't complete without it's main dance partner. Let's hope the module allows us to try to recreate these VIetnam air battles as closely as possible, and they don't restrict it to late 1970's or newer missiles.
I would love to see F/22A Raptor vs P-51D Mustang. It would be fun to see what happens, in other words it would be so much fun to see how much the F/22 would beat the P-51D.
The F4 is my favorite fighter. It fared well against the MIGs but not very well against the SAMs. We lost a lot of them in Vietnam from surface to air missiles. It was too slow in doing evasive roll maneuvers and that was it's Achilles Heel...
The F4 Phantom is aesthetically the most amazing thing ever made, dunno what it is about that plane but yeah.
I especially loved the post flight debrief at the end of the video. Really helps with the situational awareness.
Wow I'm never this early for anything, looking forward to this video though
I've been waiting for this matchup since I became a follower maybe about 8 months ago. Though I can't play I enjoy these videos you and the other guys make. Thanks again and keep up the great work.
Next I think you should fly the F-4E
This is the second time I've looked for a plane and found a growling intro with such a good summary
Spectacular!!! could you make one where you pilot the F-4E?
Got to see a pair of F4's in a short deployment to Egypt back in 2007. I didn't really knew what the hell they were since I didn't think anyone was still using them. Apparently the Egyptians still do.
Some states in north africa still have MiG-21s, right? Makes sense to keep the F4s. As long as you don't have to challenge the IAF xD.
Phantoms are the prettiest jets ever flown, don't @ me
Tomcat easy
The plane was called the Double Ugly for a reason. It has a nice utilitarism/agressiveness to its look, but pretty... Eyes of the beholder, I guess...
For me it's a toss up between the MC. 205 and the Gripen
@@marcofava the gripen, rafale, and the typhoon are all beautiful aircraft with their canards.
@@moo9557 true, Canards seem to be a very European thing, also I think something should be said for the B1 Lancer and the TU95 Bear as far as good looking aircraft go
MiG 21 is what happens when you weld triangles onto a tube and call it a plane
Loving the MiG-21 videos
I've just started watching this channel and have only rudimentary knowledge of air warfare. I already learnt a lot by watching though. This one really showed the difference of an interceptor to a fighter. The mig is basically a piloted missile (it even looks like that). It has to come fast, attack/kill and get out. It doesn't have rear visibility because it should never be in a position in which it has to look at what is in it's back. Your videos are very interesting and I specially like it when there is a tactical discussion at the end. Cheers!
finally!! I've been waiting for this dogfight, maybe next do p-51h-5 vs me-262 a? would be historically correct.
The p51h never saw combat, not even in korea, the US decided to stick to the D model, p51d vs me 262 is accurate however
@@The-ch1rz the P-51 would win if it could maintain energy and not get in front of the 262
@@moo9557 idk about that, but im saying p51h vs me 262 is not historical
Born and raised near George AFB where the Wild Weasels were stationed. Used to hear the sonic booms daily. Sure do miss them.
Love being able to see this in 4K on my iPhone.
Your IPhone does not have a 4k screen...
Then how am I viewing the video in 2160p
@@matthewspears6932 Max quality for me is 1080p, and I use an iPhone 7.
@@lonniebailey4989 You realize we’re up to IPhone 12 rn 😂 Im on iPhone SE and IOS14 supports 2160p
@@lonniebailey4989 Not trying to Shame you for having an iPhone 7, simply pointing out that the newer iPhones can do 4k
I love the story that you tell about the F-4s imitating F-105s. One of my professors fought in that engagement as an F-4 pilot, so always cool to hear it mentioned
i was just watching a video about an F-4 by dark skies lol
Same
Me also..
I was too lol
Me too then I saw this
I have watch a few of these dog fights/tactical fights and loved them. SUBSCRIBED!
ED has to add the phantom.
I think that's their mystery aircraft tbh. It only makes sense
Imagine all that epic dogfights f-4 vs. MiG-19/21 in the near future...
Longshot doesn't really make to many mistakes does he?
If only you'ed know... lol
I make alot man
That blue cockpit is a thing of beauty.
Damn War Thunder really glorified the MiGs flight performance, even in simulator battles. Great video!
The F-4 is just a mod and has a unrealsitic flight model. If you read some reports, you would know that the MiG-21 was the better turnfighter in vietnam.
Cyberex The MiG-21bis has a major thrust to weight advantage over the phantom. Yes, it may bleed more speed, but the MiG has better low speed turn rate with thrust to compensate for the speed bleed. The phantom isn’t exactly that great at maintaining speed either.
@Cyberex The MiG-21 Bis still has it beat badly as an angle fighter.
@Cyberex What the f*ck is Emergency burner mode? MiG-21 has a engine with emergency burner i guess in the 70s that produced 21,700 kg of thrust but only to escape
KGB Officer the MiG 21 Bis could only go full emergency burner (above normal AB) for 3 or so minutes, but in WT, it’s infinite. This essentially gives it 3000 KGF more thrust in game than it had irl, massively buffing it.
I love the Phantom. Use to work com/nav on the F-4E. Keep up the awesome vids!
F-104 next?
About the MiG not liking the turns - my understanding is that delta wings like on the MiG-21 tend to have high maneuverability, but that they bleed energy badly in high G turns.
Remember what Robin Olds said when flying against the migs 😛
Robin Olds is my hero! Have you read Fighter Pilot?
@@mothafraker I haven’t but watched Dogfights
@@DD-jl9xd I recommend it! General Olds is to combat aviation as Chuck Yeager is to test aviation.
So I noticed in your recent vietnamese mig-21 vs f4 video that the MiG used R60s. Just a small correction that, to my knowledge, the vietnamese never used R60s during the vietnam war and usually exclusively used R-13M or R-3S missiles. Accordingly they usually had a high focus on getting gun kills when they eventually did get into a dogfight. Just a couple small corrections but overall, it was a really really cool video!
These "I've never been so early..." Bruh, just make a normal comment.
Lol I only really comment to help the algorithm
guys who do that are the true MVPs
I get it's feeding the algorithm, but it's feeding it days old Arby's that someone forgot in their car and not having the courtesy to leave them an immodium.
@@mattfleming86 I'm not too proud for some days old Arby's lol. But yeah I get your point. Now if you'll excuse me, I've got a strange beef and cheddar in my cargo pocket.
@@mattfleming86 Food, is food if you're hungry enough.............Just saying.
Nice way to add context regarding the history of both planes.
Next time fly the F-4 instead of the MiG.
The clash i wished and commented to see not to long ago, dunno if that actually had anything what so ever to do with this upl BUT MAN, glad to see this 'el classico' brawl !
TY for great content! Love the short history leasson about different planes in the start.. 👍 💯
Phantoms, the largest distributor of mig parts.
Thanks for the video, it didn't disappoint.
Thank u for watching Carl
Commenting for the algorithm
5:26 An Israeli test pilot said once, after flying a Mig 21 and flighting mock godfights with Mirages, that if you see a Mig jinking left and right it means he can't see you because rear visibility was very poor, so he is trying to create angles to get better view.
damm this reminds of @scottish koala doing this in warthunder
the fox 2 on the third round when it saw the flairs was just like:
"Ooh, a piece of candy"
F4 phantom outturning a mig21
Dcs is so realistic
to be fair, it all depends on the circumstances
It is is mod, and it completely possible
GS is turning way too hard, and this is the Bis not the F, PL or ML. It's way heavier but has a more powerful engine to make up for it. However GS i think doesn't know how to activate it and doesn't seem to be using it.
I just bought the MiG-21, I can't wait to fly it.
Fiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiirst
@@viruspter1dactl Nobody asked u to say "Nobody asked"
This MiG-21bis is known as the Bison as there are enough differences that it's not really the same aircraft as the Fishbed.